Game 2

I’m actually not in Denver which is why it’s taking a little longer to get the information to you all. Here’s the lineup for Game 2

Pierre, CF

Abreu, 2B

Kemp, RF

Gonzo, LF

Nomar, 3B

Loney, 1B

Martinez, SS

Lieberthal, C

Wells, P



    season is over!nice line up! Our biggest game of the season and we have gonzo fourth and Nomar clean up????


    wow nomar fifth, gonzo fourth, martinez at ss!!! wat is this??


    wat about playing young, or hu?? they have answered the call everytime they get it. the same cannot be said for the players i just named


    Martinez at short?

    The only thing I would change is swapping Nomar, and Gonzo.

    I hope this lineup cashes in, and lights up the scoreboard. We desperately need this win.


    I have officially given up on trying to figure out what goes on in Grady Little’s head. All I can do now is cheer for this lineup and hope that these veterans prove us wrong and actually win the game.


    this lineup is retarded. not that it matters anymore. i hope grady is the fall guy for this team. sorry im pretty bitter after today’s collapse offensively.


    I want to believe that we will somehow make it happen and make the playoffs. But do any of us really think that we have a chance to go deep and not get swept?


    Wait I don’t get it why is everyone flipping out because Nomar is batting 5th? He was betting 5thn during the homestand and he did pretty darn good. Let’s be positive and get some WINS!!! Good luck blue. Furcal is out with lower back stiffness. I would assume that’s why Martinez is at SS.


    what the helll!!!!!!

    can’t wait to see alot of ground ball at the middle go to CF and a runner will score becoz of Jp’s weak arm!!!

    Martinez doesn’t have the range to play SS!!!


    So, Loney’s been tearing it up batting 3rd and he’s batting 6th now behind Gonzo and Nomar?

    Josh, you can’t defend this kind of stuff. Why not Hu at SS? Martin needs to catch both games because otherwise the season is over. Didn’t he jsut rest on Sunday? Why did he rest then and again now when we had an off day yesterday?


    i wonder what loney is thinking rayt now?

    sunday he is batting 3rd…

    earlier 5th then on the 2nd game 6th!!

    that s*cks!


    wow, that’s a horribly pathetic lineup.

    Should look more like







    Hu / Martinez


    The Rockies must be laughing at this lineup.


    I cannot argue with playing the vets. They did put in the time. But I would have rather seen:

    Pierre, CF

    Abreu, 2B

    Loney, 1B

    Kemp, RF

    Gonzo, LF

    Nomar, 3B

    Martinez, SS

    Lieberthal, C

    Wells, P

    Or even better:

    Pierre, CF

    Hu, SS

    Loney, 1B

    Kemp, RF

    Gonzo, LF

    Nomar, 3B

    Abreu, 2B

    Lieberthal, C

    Wells, P

    I dunno if Hu is mature in baseball terms enough to hit in the 2-hole but I mean wth why not try…nothing else is working.



    Y’all can beech and complain about the line-up, but this IS the 2007 Dodgers. Nothing new here, folks. The real travesty is just how weak the National League is this year. ANY team in the playoffs can make a run to the World Series. And our pitching could have taken us there.


    Yea I think the kids really hate Grady Little. He frustrates them, frustrates the fans. But it’s all good because the Veterans love him and since they will carry us to glory I suppose we’re ok right? haha.


    so…bat Loney 6th and protect him with:

    Martinez’s .192 AVG

    Leiberthal .236


    brilliant. just walk our “hottest” hitter and get to basically 3 outs.

    love the throw-away line-up in a pennant race.


    wait wrong lineup:

    Pierre, CF

    Ethier, LF

    Loney, 1B

    Kemp, RF

    Nomar, 3B

    Hu, SS

    Abreu, 2B

    Lieberthal, C

    Wells, P


    If we get eliminated sometime in the near future Little should take on of the proposed lineups in this forum and see how it works out.


    Martin can’t be expected to play both ends of a twin bill. That’s just murder on a catcher. Why he rested Sunday??? Who knows???

    Agreed, that it’s odd that Loney is moving down in the order. I really can’t say anything about that.

    The big question is Martinez at SS. Is Furcal OK?


    I can see the frustration with Loney at the 6 spot. If I were Loney, i would take that as the manager not having confidence in me.

    One other thing. The first time I went to CO, I had a heck of a time adjusting to the air up there. My arms ached and felt as if my blood was “boiling” or “gurgling”. Since that first time, I’ve been there 2-3 times since then and haven’t felt that way.

    My point is that the air may affect you everytime you go up there and as you age, it may get harder to adjust to it. Think about that as the vets play tonight.

    Again, most double headers end in splits which is what we can hope for but not be happy about in the end.



    sorry about that… i didn’t see your post!

    about Kent! i would not want a player who plays only for himself especially if he is the leader of the team!!! that;s not good at all!

    on the bunt situation! im really sorry about that… bunting LaRoche just becoz he already SO is insane!! i got ur point trying to do something different! but that’s a waste of out!!!


    Van_19 — I know. Just trying to mix it up.

    Maybe the reason Loney is in the 6 spot is for situational purposes in certain innings like 3 and 5 or 6 when your order is “out of whack”. Fishing here.



    that’a a long shot!!!

    loney is batting 6th coz grady doesn’t know where to put his best hitters!!!


    The season is over as far as I’m concerned. At this point we’re playing to maintain our third place position, and the head to head against the Rockies will determine the final outcome.

    First conclusion: If we want to go anywhere next year or two – FIRE BOTH COLLETTI AND GRADY. My choice for the new GM would be LOGAN WHITE, because he seems to have the right attitude about developing younger players and knows the Dodger prospects and probably many of the other teams’ prospects. We need to get some advanced starting pitcher prospects in the off-season, plus one genuine fresh starting pitcher through a trade. I might want to use Furcal for that trade, since he seems to have some value and would probably be with us only one more year.

    I would concentrate on getting Atkins for 3rd base in the FA market. LaRoche really has not shown much at the major league level, and his physical impairments don’t bode well for him ever realizing that high propect potential that everyone has been looking for.


    Wow…why don’t you just let Blowberto and Hendrickson be the base coaches while we’re at it. Glad he listens to Gonzo’s quotes.


    if they aren’t going to win the division or WC, then lose all the rest of your games. They’ll get a better draft selection that way.


    What bad luck I can’t believe that Raffy is now listed as “Day to Day.” That’s gonna hurt the team. I really hope he is ok. We can’t afford to lose his arm in this stage of the race. He was actually starting to look realy good out there again. He had four steals the other day. What bad luck this team has.


    I see we left double digits on base again.

    With the season really just a formality now, they might as well give the young players a nice shot at it. Who knows, we may even win the rest of our games.


    Dont know if it has already been posted but Bills posted a picture of the rookies in their costumes on his blog, Young and Kemp look hilarious!


    Mr. McCourt:

    It would be nice to come back to Dodger Stadium next week with the announcement that 2008 will bring a NEW MANAGEMENT TEAM to the Dodgers. Logan White could be in place before the season is over.


    Wow! That lineup is a real shock. Martinez at short? Why bring up Hu? Grady sub’ed Furcal with Valdez in game 1, PH for him then sits him for the “power” bat of Martinez not to mention his lack of range. I’m confused Redman is a LH so why Gonzo or did he hit Redman well in 2001?

    I hope we win, all Dodger fams do but this lineup makes it hard … very hard.


    what? the team didn’t feel that LaRoche shouldn’t be in the lineup?

    who are those people who said those things…?

    is it the veterans again?

    coz i think this team is rookies versus veterans!!!


    A. Martinez reported that some “veterans” were questioning Laaroche plaing the first game and that Grady lost the clubhouse a couple of weeks ago. Careful A. MArtinez I think your cell phone is ringing. I think its Josh. LOL!!!



    now i can say that the season might really be over!!!

    i don’t know about this veterans!!!

    they shouldn’t be complaining coz they didn’t really do alot of things this season!!!

    only Jeff Kent has contributed amongst the veterans!!!

    they are ruining the chemistry of the team!!!

    this frustrates me!!!

    gonzo said at the beginning “we have a good nucleus of guys here, we have good young kids that can play and veterans”

    but now he feels like it’s all veterans!!!


    We really ought to let Gonzo go home early – season over – you’re DONE with the Dodgers!
    Nomar should be rested the rest of the season, because he will be back next year, and he may do some good if he returns healthy. Hernandez should be sent home. Meloan and Hull should pitch his innings the rest of the way.

    Let’s get Hu playing at short and get a feel for how he will do. Let’s get Stults another start. And above all:



    Well all Nomar has to do to prove the Vets were right is go 4-5 with 1HR .. Somehow I don’t see this .. poor bloody LaRoche he must be hoping and praying that he gets traded.


    now im wondering why do we have a better record than the giants!!!

    this team is rookies versus veterans all the way!!!

    Ned and Grady ruined this team!!!


    I don’t know why you guys complaining. It not going to happen. That why we could’ve try harder to win the first one.


    griffon64:We left 9 men on base in the first game. The LOB you are looking at is 10 or over for almost every tean in almost every game (but you did tell me you were new to baseball)

    The 2nd game line-up: I can’t see any reason for Gonzalez to start with his arm in that big outfield and with the LH pitcher. I would move Nomar and Loney up one and start Young in LF batting 6.

    Dodgers notes said during the first game that Gonzalez was expected in the 2nd game. Given that fact the questions above about Loney batting 6 are easy. Grady doesn’t like L,L in the line-up and he hasn’t hit the “kids” 4th; so, if Gonzalez starts and Kemp hits 3 then Nomar can’t hit 4 because that would leave the two lefties Gonzalez and Loney for 5 and 6. The result Gonzalez 4 and Loney 6. I’d guess I’d flip them but (on paper) Gonzalez shouldn’t be starting in this game.


    this situation makes me wonder!!!

    i think grady is listening to both Ned and McCourt!!!

    Ned wants the veterans and McCourt wants the Kids!!!

    got what i mean?

    when A.martinez talk about the situation it looks to me that grady is like a puppet from the management!!!

    a puppet of McCourt and a puppet of Ned!!!


    Given this line-up for game 2 it might have been better to leave most of those kids in the minors as they’re unlikely to see any substantial playing time – if any. Hu, Meloan, Young and the best utility in the Organisation Valdez – Just to name a few.


    I think grady goes to the beat of his own drum. He didn’t listen to management in Boston why would he risk his job and do it here?


    Grady definitely follows the company line and that means Ned. Im not sure Nomar could have played BOTH games so who should have started at 3rd? No suprise that Grady has lost the clubhouse.



    good question!!

    no one in the organization even bother to tell us the truth! so, as far as im concern there is no other side!!!


    The kids were brought up to soak up the atmosphere of the clubhouse and the bench in a pennant race. I guess they’re getting a real earful of that at least in the clubhouse. Must be a bit demoralizing from what I read between the lines about the clubhouse mood these days.

    Only answer to that:



    Where are people hearing that the clubhouse is so divided? Are you guys sure about that? Are these true facts?


    gonzo wants to make his name be known here before he leaves L.A!

    he is ruining the club house chemistry!!!

    and i thought they signed him coz he is a good player and a GOOD MAN?

    now i know why the snakes want him before and they throw him last year coz they knew he had become a very poisonous animal!!!


    Now that poor bloody LaRoche know what the Vets think of him he’s probably hoping and praying for a trade. I think all LaRoche needs is a bit of consistent playing time to show everyone just how good he is and if can’t get it with this team maybe he’ll end up another Dodger that got away.


    The day I turned on Gonzo was the day he said that he wanted to get at least 3000 hits, that was the most selfish thing i have ever heard.


    We’re quoting the Dodger reporter that is with the team ALL season! A. Martinez that’s a pretty reliable source. Not to mention all the other articles that have came out in the past week.



    i sure hope he doesn’t leave!

    if we can’t get a guy for 3rd base next year we need him… but if we did get someone we need him at 2nd!!!

    i like LaRoche over Abreu!!!


    maybe that is the reason why martinez is playing at SS!!!

    the veterans wants their fellow veterans to play!!!




    For those who are like me, and want Grady and Ned fired, call Dodgertalk tonight and express your displeasure. I know Dodger management listens to the calls. Tell them how your sick and tired of these over-priced, over-the-hill veterans. Give Dodger management an earful. Let them know that we WANT LOGAN WHITE RUNNING THE SHOW. Not to mention getting rid of Griddle.


    well I was questioning LaRoche playing the first game as well. It’s pretty stupid since the guy has had very little ML time (due to Ned and Grady not giving it to him earlier in the season).


    I was listening to sports talk all day today. On a few shows they mentioned that Dodger fans are laid back and are going to show up anyway. I’m sick of hearing that. I will call tonight we need to make this a PR disaster for McCourt that’s the only way he does things.



    just seeing gonzo’s face frustrates me!!!

    so what with the HR??

    can u see him run the base!!! he is like telling the management “hey im a veteran, i just hit a bomb play me more not those stupid inexperience kids”


    maybe Gonzo’s juice is running out soon and he’s trying to get in more playing time before it’s gone.


    Gonzo your so good you just took a guy deep that has an ERA in double digits! your so right gonzo play the veterans.


    rodmky: Minor League seasons ended this year on our Labor Day (this year Sept.3) except for playoffs which our AAA club did not make.There was no minor league baseball to leave them with.
    I suppose this will sound rude but you are very often posting uninformed messages such as this one. I figured it was some kid in Austrailia who didn’t know much about baseball but your not a kid and you have followed baseball for many years. I believe that when Grady does something you consider dumb you want him fired………


    Our defense looks WEAK. No arms, no range, HUGE field, with a flyball pitcher on the mound.

    not looking good.


    Oh I c. Well Van 19 I didn’t see the pre-game show. I am still working so I didn’t see that. I guess it has some validity if he reported that. Although as a fan I don’t want to know that. I’d rather be in ignorant bliss without knowing that my fav ball is divided.


    Being from some distance away, the east coast of Canada, I naturally do not have access to all the info you guys do. However, I do wonder how it is you hear someone on a talk show and what is said there is accepted as the gospel truth. You are reading between the lines, suggesting a split between the kids and vets and accepting that there are clubhouse problems caused by Grady. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you aren’t.

    Now it also seems to me that we don’t have both sides of the story or as Paul Harvey would say, “… the rest of the story.” What has been said has been taken at face value. I don’t quite understand why it so easy to swallow A Martinez, hook, line and sinker.

    Some posters have challenged Josh. “Josh, you can’t defend this kind of stuff.” Why does he have to defend something we might not agree with or would have done differently? I know Josh is a PR guy, and I for one am glad he is our PR guy. He has gone out of his way to keep this blog alive and keep us informed. That is not part of his job. It is something he feels is important. I have followed the blog for two years reading his comments daily. Certainly there is much he can’t reveal but what he does share I feel is given accurately and in the best interests of the team. I thank him for that.



    euhlman we are not reading between the lines he said ” veterans are upset that Laroche is in the Line up, and he has lost the clubhouse for a couple weeks now”. This is coming from a guy that is with the Dodgers everyday. He reported that on the Dodger pre grame show. It has also been reported by Jon Weisman.


    this team is a train wreck.

    And the veterans have every right to be pissed off by LaRoche starting in the first game. That was wrong on so many levels.


    First off Wells is not pitching on three days rest, it’s four days rest. Second, he’s admitted he hates Coors Field, so a guy who gives up hits, Coors Field obviously would not be a good place for him. Wells will be pitching on three days rest in Arizona that’s another issue. Wells has been tremendous for us thus far before Coors.


    I hope the Dodgers don’t hit ground ball outs all night. That was a good first inning. I saw a lot of games like this, now we’ll have trouble with Redman( hope I’m wrong)


    I’d say we need to go a minimum of 10-2 the rest of the way to have a decent chance of getting in.If we lose both of these games, it will take a miracle to get in.

  67. Roberto


    I got your e-mail. Thank you for taking the time and writing to me. I appreciate it. I really do enjoy the blog and visit daily to read what you and the fans have to say. Glad to read your side of the story.


    Should of score another run in that inning. Nomar should wait until he gets to the plate before he swings.


    How about them Mets, they’re pulling what the Cardinals did last September. Worked for the Cards though, hope the Mets choke themselves out of the postseason…


    Gonzo and Nomar shouldn’t start anymore this year. Let Ethier and LaRoche play assuming they’re healthy.


    If LaRoche is healthy, he should be really really something special. But, he’s not, that needs to be understood. We have not seen a healthy LaRoche play major league ball yet. I really hope we do soon.


    Even if the Dodgers are out of this, which they’re not yet, I love baseball and this is my favorite part of the season. When all the teams are stumbling down the stretch after the long marathon. I do watch most of the playoffs with or without my Dodgers, but it would be better with them there.


    I love to see the Boston fans suffer. well deserved how are Lugo and Drew doing? 2 1/2 games watch out boSox


    It’s good that the last 6 games are in LA it’s a good chance we’ll listen to Scully, It will make a lot easy, if we’re out of it.


    Maybe I put those 3 in my lineup but don’t have Holliday and I have have Crawford and Ichiro. Nice to se4e Young PH here.


    I don’t get a chance to watch the young guy’s before they get to the Dodgers, and I’m impressed with Abreu’s descipline and selectiveness at the plate, hope he continues like that.


    Let’s me try that again. I hate the no edit feature. Maybe I put those 3 in my lineup on my PS 2 but don’t have Holliday and I have Crawford and Ichiro and so nice to see Young PH here.


    Actually Young will be competing with Evel Knievel Repko for the fourth outfielders spot. If Kent retires, it’s Abreu’s job to lose.

  79. Roberto

    Everywhere you go, there are Dodger fans. I’ve been to 5 stadiums other than Dodger Stadium and you see alot of Dodger fans. There all over the place!


    alex, repko should the 4th outfielder, and young should compete for a utility role in the infield. my opinion.



    no i def. think it will be young and abreu fighting for second base next year. if you look at youngs stats they are really good. he is just that one guy that gets over looked in the organization


    Wow that nice. Been on the bench all game and come in with a Bomb. Martinnnnnnnnnnnnnn need to be locked up for life.


    Wow that nice. Been on the bench all game and come in with a Bomb. Martinnnnnnnnnnnnnn need to be locked up for life.


    Pods and Snakes beating the teams they have to beat. Face it folks, the Dodgers 2007 destiny is no longer in their own hands. They can thank their pathetic August for that.


    yeah!! cmon brox! one more home run so we can tie up the game and lose our chances of winning!
    *** happend to him man! he use to be hitless.


    Grady is trying to get fired ..once again 2 on no outs down by a run and he pinch hits for the pitcher .who could have bunted them to 2nd & 3rd .but they foooled him and didn’t hit into a double play just a fly out before the tripple


    Interesting stats, this season Broxton has given up 5 home runs this season (which is still ridiculously great), I probably would’ve prefered them spread out more than this. But, all five HR’s have come on the road, at Dodger Stadium his ERA is 1.44 and has not given up a HR. On the road his ERA is 4.05 this season going into this game, so obvious it will go up a little.


    I have to note that Pierre is probably better in his natural leadoff position, and he should have been tried there especially while Raffy’s ankle had been bothering him.


    Game over.
    Saito had a helluva run there converting saves. He’s human. Can’t save them all. This just came at the wrong time.


    End of season when our best blows the save. We’re now probably headed for fourth place. Maybe that will motivate the ownership to



    Not that anybody cares right now, but just for fun (’cause that’s all we have left…)

    Veterans (Pierre, Gonzo, Nomar, Ramone, Lieberthal): 7 for 21 (.333) with 2 RBI, 5 Runs and 1 HR.

    Kids (Abreu, Kemp, Loney, Martin): 6 for 14 (.429) with 6 RBI, 3 Runs and 2 HR.

    In the end, I’m left with a very sad, empty feeling.


    Saito has been absolutely incredible and should finish right behind Peavy for the Cy Young. The rest of the season feels a lot different when you know it’s over. It’s peaceful actually, disappointing, but peaceful.


    Mr. McCourt:

    Please make the announcement when the club returns to Dodger Stadium:


    LOGAN WHITE FOR 2008!!!


    sad sad sad sad, but funny funny funny.

    Spin it Josh, spin it baby. Any way you cut it, this is a failure season and either Neddy or Grady need to go.


    what a down note dude!! Wow…Sammy is STILL THE MAN.

    Just not meant to be. I hope they play the kids the rest of the way and let us fans enjoy their enthusiasm. Hope the vets learned something too. Baseball is a TEAM game and just because you are a wheezer-geezer does not mean you can carry a team simply by showing up.

    Well, it was a nice dream but not to be…I MUST catch the KFWB postgame stream tonight…will Josh have the stones to call in again? Prolly not because his daddy (The Screaming Meanie…who seems to be the one who wears the pants in the family) told him no…I mean wow, even A Martinez basically flipped him.


    the second it came off the bat my heart just sank. horrible feeling…now, did the dodgers meet their expectations…if not then changes should be made.


    broxton giving up the 2 run shot in the 8th, and saito’s 2 run shot in the 9th…no one could have predicted that. Tough loss.


    Dodgers have to be lower than low in the clubhouse. Have a sick feeling they won’t be able to muster the mojo tomorrow night…not that it really matters now.


    oh man. i had a sick feeling this was going to happen. When i reloaded and saw the 9-8, OMG, my heart sank. i’ll bet ESPN plays helton’s bomb all night long. hate to say it but it looks like this year is over. on the anniversary of last year’s miracle. i guess each is fitting for the season. last season was miraculous and this year (other than the emergence of loney and kemp) a bitter disappointment.


    How does it feel for the lowly Rockies to rub it in, Mr. McCourt. Face up to the fact that your managers have not produced and


    Never thought it would come to an end like this, but they have been breaking out hearts for the last 20 yrs. So why I am surprised I do not know? Hopefully we make the needed changes in the off season to become a winning franchise someday soon.


    I can’t even comprehend what just happened. I was barely paying attention. Saito had 2 outs in the 9th, I was looking at tomorrow’s match-ups. This can’t be blamed on anyone really–everything went right until the one guy who’s been right all season long.

    It’s a harsh stomach-punch. It’s hard to imagine pulling the season out at this point.

    I won’t offer an opinion on Ned or Grady. I will say this–the Times and the Press Enterprise both had features on Loney today, and both pieces also featured Logan White. They are great reads, and it’s clear that one of the most important personnell moves in the off-season is to keep him with the team at all costs.


    And it’s a bitter, bitter irony that it happened on the anniversary of the 4+1 Home Run Game of just a year ago. What a difference a year makes. . . .


    Record wise, I wouldn’t so much say we haven’t met expectations, we won a lot of games early when our pitching carried us. We had a terrible August and a…well lets say confusing month of September. The Snakes completely overachieved and the Padres have a ballpark where anybody can pitch a shutout. But, it’s been a big disappointment with the underachievement of certain players, especially Nomar. Loney, Kemp, Bills and Ethier make 2008 look great. Not to mention having a healthy Furcal and Lowe. Penny, Lowe, Bills, we’ll see about Schmidt. 2008 is going to be a great year because the transition should be over and the kids become young vets. Kent coming back would be great, but that’s his call. Now I know some of you will call for Grady and/or Ned’s head. Give them 2008, that’s the key year. Because we don’t need one year stop gaps anymore (Gonzo). If 2008 comes, goes and this is the result. Change will need to be made.


    Remember a year ago, in the inning after the four consecutive home runs?
    The Padres regained the lead with Saito pitching. He was weeping after when he gave up that run.

    September 18 is probably just not his day.

    I feel terrible for Saito.

    I hope he shakes this off.


    I can’t think about 2008 …not until we’re mathematically eliminated. That’s just the way I am. Baseball is TOO strange a game.


    Well this is the third most talented team in the division so I’m not surprised. Grady didn’t help but he isn’t the reason this team is where it is. They just aren’t very good (and anybody who thinks they are the most talented team in the division is high). That’s on Ned.

    Hopefully Ethier doesn’t play the rest of the year. Other GM’s still probably think the guy can be an everyday player right now. We don’t need them knowing he is a 4th OF at best. Keep his trade value where it is by not letting him tank any further.

    Will be nice to scrape off some of the old vets. The rotation/bullpen should be solid again in 08. Still need a power bat in the middle of the lineup.


    “It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again and it blossoms in summer, filling the afternoons and evenings and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it. Rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.”

    –A. Bartlett Giamatti


    if peavy wasn’t have such a dominant year, leading the league in era, wins, and K’s, then Saito should be the frontrunner for the cy young. Giving up that 2 run shot was atypical for him, so i’m sure he’ll shake it off quick. Tough lose nonetheless, but he wasn’t pouting about it as he left the mound. Just shook it off like a man.

    Kudos to Saito and our Dodgers for their effort out there. We got robbed out of a win today, but that is the unpredictability of baseball.


    I agree lath..Ethier might be our biggest trade chip right now. I don’t think his ceiling is as high as KEMP, and if a team is looking to to pick him up and fit him onto their ball club, i wouldn’t be against it, so long as we get better value.


    ethier a fourth OF at best? wow, where did that come from? ethier’s been great after a slow start this year. did you forget his big HR against the cubs?


    i posted on here a few days ago we either need the power bat at third (wishful thinking that nomar will be relegated to the bench) or we need to trade ethier and others and get a power outfield bat.


    ya we dont need to trade ethier or anybody!! i think we have all the pieces on the team. they just have to be healthy and kent, nomar and gonzo HAVE to be gone by next year!!

    hu, young, ethier, kemp, loney, martin, laroche, bills, elbert, kershaw. those are the guys!


    I for one am not being fickle. I expressed concern that Ethier has not increased his HRS/AB this year. It is a concern given that he is already entering his peak years soon and has not shown any increase in the power dept. Yet. I may be proven wrong.


    It was the three earned runs at the top of the ninth that Saito was responsible for in Sept. 18, 2006.

    Sorry about the mistake.


    like i said, if we get better value for Ethier, i wouldn’t be against it. I’m not advocating we trade him outright just to trade him.

    I’d rather trade Ethier than Kemp/Loney/Martin if an offer was made by another team, and the player we would get was a true difference maker in return.


    Seems Ethier hasn’t played 3 games in a row all year. And hasn’t batted in the same spot all year. Given all that, he’s had a solid year. And the guy plays great defense.


    i don’t know what kind of message that sends to the kids if we keep trading them for over-the-hill vets. we ought to be building on loney, kemp, martin, ethier, bills, and even brox. complement them with guys like kershaw, meloan, and maybe hu. the power? I’d be willing to bet that if they play and aren’t jerked around by management, loney, kemp, martin and ethier will hit 100 HR’s combined in a single year.


    oh absolutely, consistent playing time is an issue. best way to groom young players is on a team like the royals who play them everyday regardless. you really need to do that for a full season or more to know what you have.

  120. Roberto

    A. Martinez says the clubhouse is divided. He said it again on the radio on Dodger Talk. He says a player told him he was frustrated that Laroche was in the starting lineup. He says some veterans are not to pleased with the moves. Martinez says he will not say who that player is.


    If you want to trade people, trade potential, not results. I mean, you can’t keep EVERYBODY. Abreu, LaRoche, Hu, Young…take your pick, but a guy like Logan White better be consulted. It’s no coincidence that we parted with “can’t-miss” players like Joel Guzman, Willy Aybar, and Antonio Perez who have somehow missed.


    Ethier’s trade value isn’t going to be any higher. He has always had the lowest ceiling out of the top Dodger prospects and may have already hit it. Outside of July and a pinch hit homer the guy hasn’t done very much. A bunch of months hitting .260-.290 with limited power. Those kind of guys aren’t that hard to find.


    guy ethier is only 25!! he hasnt even hit his prime yet!! keep him and i bet he hits 25 bombs next year. i also really want delwyn young to get a chance to play


    Stop with this talk about playing all the kids. There isn’t room for them nor should the Dodgers bank on a bunch of unknowns. Loney, Kemp, Martin, and Broxton have proven themselves. Guys like Hu, Abreu, LaRoche, Young haven’t and there is no way all of them pan out. I don’t want over-the-hill vets on the roster but I don’t want a AAA team either. Combine the current proven young guys with quality vets who have good years left in them (Cabrera, A-rod, etc.). Then keep 1 or 2 prospects around to develop, but not 4 or 5. All you do is reduce their trade value as time wears on (like Stoneman has done with Angel prospects — think Ervin Santana).


    If Repko is healthy, where is Young going to get playing time? And don’t say “forget Repko.” I’ve posted many times, he’s a #1 pick who plays with something we need desperately…PASSION!


    forget repko!!!

    thats not the way to go in my opinion. thats the way the dodgers have been doing things for the past 19 years!! and it hasnt worked.

    look at the indians. they are the best team in baseball right now and their lineup is mostly developed kids from their system


    Delwyn Young’s numbers? Where, in Vegas? Repko has proven major league stats. He’s got a rocket arm, runs like a deer, steals bases, dives all over the outfield, hits for average, has some pop. This guy was superstar waiting to happen ’til he completely tore his hamstring going ALL OUT in a meaningless exhibition game. They drafted him as a shortstop. He’s an athelete.


    jspelk, lath, I was advocating an Ethier trade a few months ago and got absolutely hammered for it here. I think we should:

    A. Sign Torii Hunter

    B. Trade Ethier and Young/LaRoche to the Pirates for Gorzelanny or Snell (if possible)

    C. Sign Garrett Adkins

    D. Have this as our opening day line-up in ’08:

    Furcal ss

    Loney 1b

    Kemp rf

    Hunter cf

    Adkins 3b

    Martin c

    Kent/Hu/Abreu 2b

    Pierre lf (hide that squirtgun)







    If we can somehow pull that off…world series here we come.


    haha nice stats. superstar waiting to happen fer sure

    11 bombs. 232 avg. 46 rbis in two years. we dont need him.

    matt kemp is a better athlete and he is the future center fielder. why not just give delwyn a chance?? the ball flys of his bat


    Repko played all last season with a bum ankle. Maybe he CAN’T stay healthy, who knows? But you stat people kill me. I’m sure the Red Sox are enjoying J.D. Drew’s wonderful 2006 stats right about now.


    Repko can’t manage to stay healthy. We need Repko as our 4th OF. He played hard but always seem to get hurt.


    Funny game, we were beating the Rockies at their own game(HRs), it’s hard to believe in the end they beat us our own game.


    I don’t think it matters if the season ends before the post season or during the post season. I think next year will be a really exciting year. Martin, Loney, Ethier & Kemp will have a lot more experience. I can’t wait.


    charris Atkins is NOT a free agent. There are rumors he *might* be available since the Rockies already have another 3b waiting and they can’t get rid of Helton and move Atkins to 1st, but its most likley Atkins will stay with the Rocks.


    I’m sitting here in the dark posting as my 9-year old sleeps and I keep going back to leekfink’s post of about an hour ago: “…it (the season) stops and leaves you to face the fall alone…”

    I HATE it when Dodger season ends!


    ya i hate it wen the season ends too. its really a terrible day.

    the night your team gets eliminated and the night of the last day of the regular season are the hardest nights. then somehow i make it through the 3 or 4 month off season and finally pitchers and catchers report to sping training. and then things get a lot better :]


    One of the things I miss most is just hearing Vinny. I used to love it when he and Ross or he and Jerry would sum up the season after the final game. The only time all year when Vinny would tell it like he saw it all season long.


    Maybe because I was in classes all day today and didn’t see the carnage — only found out about our second loss and the Padres win a half hour ago — it hasn’t fully hit me yet. I haven’t felt the punch in the gut like leekfink. Right now it’s more like a creeping sickness in my stomache.

    But it hasn’t yet completely taken over my heart. So I will hold on a little longer. I will continue to hope that somehow we will be back within 2 1/2 games when we leave Colorado, that we will leave Arizona within 1 1/2 games, and that the Dodgers will return to Blue Heaven on Earth for the final time this year with Hope intact.

    GO BLUE!!


    This is a tough night here for the Mets fans, they are only 1 1/2 games ahead of the Phillies. I remember the days when the Dodgers would watch their lead shrink. It’s lousy, Isn’t it? when you’re planning for post season and see it disappearing. I don’t think it hurts as much when your struggling because you always know inside it’s a long way off. I think if they don’t panick they’ll make it.


    listening to the dodger games over the last few years we all know that though still by far the best announcer of all time, and still smarter and more knowledgable than any other, vinny is just not as sharp as he used to be. i don’t know what his plans are but i hope that he retires so that the dodgers and all of their fans have the chance to give him the praise he deserves. i still wish we could have honored chick hern…


    On the other hand look at these Yankees, I always called them God’s team. This year, with all those pitching injuries, they started out like, they couldn’t get started. It’s like “Go ahead, we’ll spot you a coupler months” It’s like I could of won millions on them, I could never count them out. Is anybody very suprised that they are only 2 1/2 behind the Redsox. They got the WC by 4 1/2.


    nah pierre im really not suprised that they are that close. their the yankees. and ive only been a fan since 95, and every year they have made the playoffs


    If you can keep your minds off the division races, I know it’s hard to do. And concentrate only on the Dodgers. Just watch the games, watch the team. The individual players, watch them laugh. That’s your team. For many years I followed them mostly through the newspapers & magazines & whenever they played against one my New York teams & on national TV. People thought I was crazy. Ahh, now I get to see them, and talk & write about them. It’s a Win,Win situation, I’m going to appreciate that.



    I know you love the success stories of the Indians, Twins, and Dbacks but look at the big picture here. Sure those teams have become good by relying almost entirely on the farm system but they are the minority. How many teams have tried to do the same thing and wind up out of the playoffs every year? Most of them. The Dodgers have a payroll advantage over most of their competition and you want to forfeit it? So that this team could become the Indians but probably becomes the Pirates? There is a reason the Yanks, Red Sox, Angels, and Mets will make the playoffs often. They (for the most part) combine homegrown talent with good free agents.

    The Dodgers problem has been that they spend money poorly not that they’ve spent it. Instead of spending 25 mil a year on Nomore, Gonzo, Hendrickson, Olmedo, and Tomko they should spend it on one really good guy (A-rod, Cabrera, Jones, etc). Fill out most of the team by properly developing draft choices and fill in the holes with really good free agents.



    well the red sox and mets dont really have any homegrown talent. and they are good now, but in 2 years?? i dont think they will be. but the indians, diamondbacks, and brewers will be. because they built from within with good young taleted ballplayers. they can also trade some of those prospects for a missing piece. but the dodgers have had one of the highest payrolls in baseball for years. and not too many great seasons. all im saying is that maybe we shouldnt go out every year and sign a bunch of free agents. spend more money on the farm system. get a couple players to build around. and if your missing a piece to the puzzle, trade a guy or two to get that piece.

    but i think they should stop spending more on one or two free agents every year. cuz that never seems to work


    Good for the Rockies…

    Did you see the fans?? Those Denver fans deserved to have something to cheer about this year. And on the one-year anniversary of you-know-what four times. It was painfully fun to watch… again, in my sick, twisted kind of way that is.

    The Rockies and their fans better enjoy it while it lasts because the Dodgers are poised to dominate for many years to come… if they can find a skipper who won’t sobotage the whole shootin’ match.

    Logan White for GM!! Kirk Gibson for Manager!!


    the mets and redsox dont have any homegrown talent….with all due respect…what in the world are you talking about?

    i guess

    wright, reyes, heilman, pelfrey, milledge, pedroia, youkilis, papelbon, buchholtz, lester dont count eh?


    Very good article by Plaschke. Shows that the front office may be getting some real heat and aprehension concerning their futures. Given the circumstances of the team’s demise, it doesn’t seem like a smart thing to do by Josh, since it could only fan the flames on Dodger Talk. On the other hand, I don’t see it as a big mis-step that violates rights of speech, etc. Josh really should have come on the show instead of calling during the commercial and expressed his views directly, and his position probably would have been better received. I personally think that Josh does a great job by maintaining this forum.

    I’ve, of course, been one of the outspoken critics of the Dodger management long before the season virtually ended yesterday. Others here and on Dodger Talk have amply provided many instances of specific failures by Grady and by Colletti individually and in concert. I’ve got to believe that the ownership, having made a very substantial investment, is at least aware of those expressed opinions by what is its customer base, the fans. It simply seems to me that Colletti and Grady have had two years to put a winning championship team together, and they have failed. If they had gone so far as the playoffs, and some bad luck intervened that they couldn’t go all the way, there might be some reason to ride with them for another year or two. But at this point I have to ask WHY? I think that there are better people available to bring the Dodgers to the Promised Land, and very likely one or two of them is already in and familiar with the Dodger organization and some of the tradition. That’s why I continue to say:



    messagebear… gong with your logic for a minute… if you can both Colletti and Little who do you bring in to replace?? Remember in the last 10 years the Doders have gone through allot of GM’s… Lasorda, Malone, Wallace, Depo, Evans, Colletti, and I know I missed at least 1 other… so who do you bring in and how long do you ive them for the major market team we have??


    Personally I would bring in Logan White as GM, and I would try to get Gibson or Girardi as the manager. Probably would also seriously look at Hershiser, who already has been a pitching coach. I’ve mentioned here before that what I miss with the current management is the absolute lack of Dodger ties and tradition. Yes, I’d overlook the fact that Colletti has a Giant mentality if he were successful, but to me that is clearly not the case. I’d sign the new management for two years, and that’s how much time I would give them with the team that we have in progress.

  151. Roberto

    I just want to say that I support Josh. I know he made a mistake with his use of word to describe Dodger talk. Hey everyone makes a mistake once in a while. I understand where he is coming from. I think he does a great job with this blog and I hope it continues so we can get the great coverage that we have been getting.



    Thanks for the blog and daily tidbits.


    Well, Saito blowing a save is a sign the season’s over for me. I’m going to root for the Phillies to over take the Madres from here on out and wait for Grady’s firing and maybe Ned’s as well.

    Thanks guys and gals for great discussion!


    OK, so the ’07 season is over, I think we can all agree on that. It was a tough year all around and it was compounded by Grady’s inadequacies and his “I’m the manager and I’ll do it my way” cavalier attitude. It’s time to look forward and the reality is, Grady and Ned will be back, there is no doubt about that. The good thing is that Grady is going into ’08 as a lame duck manager, which means the Dodgers will not hesitate to pull the pin on him during the season, secondly Ned has to do some fence mending with the fans.
    With Pierre coming back next season and already occupying a spot in the outfield it’s time for Ned to consider trading either Ethier, Kemp, Young or Repko and maybe LaRoche (he isn’t going to be the savior we all thought, bad back) They need to go out and get another lefty in the bullpen and the thing that Ned Colletti has to do now, and I know that I’m gonna hear from alot of you on this one, but it’s time to cut the BS and go after ARod, if and when he hits the free agency market. This team needs a hitter who can make a statement that we will not be beat by the Pads, DBacks and especially the ROCKIES, this is embarassing if we finish 4th in our division and I don’t think Dodger fans and the McCourt family deserve that. ARod will change the face of the franchise he will bring a swagger or if you want to call it an arrogance, fine, call it what you want but this team now needs help. I love our young guys, but i’m afraid that without a big, proven player, hitter, star, in the line up they will be had. With the talent of Kemp, Ethier, Russell, Loney, Abreu and any other kid who may be here next year, combined with ARod, there is no team in this division who can stop them. Ned, I implore you to go out and make a statement this off season, we should not be getting embarrassed by the Colorado Rockies!!!!


    Josh, while I think you may have stepped over the line with the Dodger Talk call, I too understand that you were trying to do your best to preserve the Dodgers’ image. Many of the other bloggers probably feel the same way and I just want to let you know that we appreciate this great forum you provide to us. Thanks for a great season of information, the majority of us really appreciate it. Shake it off buddy, you like most of us are passionate about our Dodgers and sometimes we all fly off the handle when were upset. Keep up the great work, you have our support.


    Depression sets in. The season is over. Twenty years since the last great Dodgers season and we celebrated in October.




    and yes even Scoscia need to run this team.

    We need fire in our bellies GRADY can never provide this.

    He’s not the right guy. He’s AAA manager at best. The Sox knew it.

    We need passion to win! We need a real leader, Grady is not a leader.

    I live and work in Anaheim, I am tired of these Angels fans speaking the truth about my Dodgers. Kiper is right. Management has to be bold. Ned, please be as agressive as the Yankees typically are in the off season.


    Yeah I doubt that Josh acted alone. He was told to do it I am sure…

    “If 2008 comes, goes and this is the result. Change will need to be made.”

    I’ll hold you to it then ,then.


    Well, can we look back on this season and say, we now know more about what doesn’t make a playoff team?

    Yes and no.

    We know that a big payroll doesn’t make a playoff team. Thinking that our hefty $106 payroll means anything more than that the collective we of Dodgerdom are paying a lot of money for a team creeps into Yankee entitlement syndrome land. All the $8 million deadwood veterans ******* up that money appears to have been a Bad Idea.

    A strong core of young players doesn’t make a playoff team *furiously ignores the Diamondbacks*. You have to manage those players well, play them, teach them, develop them. The farm did a spectacular job of developing the young players. Now the MLB staff needs to step up to develop them that last little bit. Some of them, like Martin, is all the way there. Others, like Ethier, needs a dedicated hitting couch to keep him on track. And so each young player has his own development needs – and those should be met and, yes, catered to. These players represent a tremendous investment of time and resources by the organization. They’re not for discarding and casual mismanagement at the highest level. They’re for building a franchise with.

    A core of old veterans just starting the slide, or especially full tilt into the slide into mediocrity does not make a playoff team. *Points to the Giants* At times Gonzalez did help carry the offense. And yet, when the team needed these veterans most, back in that horrible stretch when they couldn’t buy a hit with runners in scoring position, where were the veterans? Isn’t that what they are there for? Signed because they know how to win, know how to play? Maybe this was what they were there for, but they sure as heck did not do their jobs in that time. Yet they continued pulling down playing time, while it appears a younger player makes one mistake or has one 0-fer night and then sits for a week.

    A folksy, unflappable manager does not make a playoff team. Doesn’t the Dodgers need somebody to be the fire to Grady’s calm, the spark to Grady’s steadiness? Too much of one or the other is usually not a good thing. Maybe there needs to be somebody who fires everybody up, gets them going. I’ve only played some amateur sports, but I know our team fell into ruts of going through the motions, staying calm, saying “We’ll just have to play better / try harder next time” – before you know it, you do not play with any kind of fire. We had an occasional player who was a cheerleader, who got in there, got under everybody’s skin, got us fired up, playing hard, outdoing each other and the opposition. The Dodgers look like they need a spark to ignite their potential.

    The potential, the pieces, the long range is there. Can the Dodgers recognize a good thing when they see it, or will we be an expensive, frustrating also-ran for years to come? We are in real danger of finishing fourth in the division, which I predicted back in June, before that horrible slide. Stay tuned, but don’t sit too close to the edge of your seat. After all, that is not keeping an even keel. The even keel may well be more important than winning, right?


    I sure hope that Dodger Talk doesn’t change next season. When I still attend games (which hasn’t been often this year for this season ticket holder – thank god for ticket exchange), Dodger Talk is the one thing I look forward to on the drive home.

    Many of my sentiments about that game are often confirmed. If it were May or June and Grady were making some of the changes and mistakes that appear to occur on the field, then I wouldn’t expect as much criticism, but in late July-Sept, Grady is still trying to figure things out. Changing lineups and bizarre non management decisions just need to be pointed out.

    It will be a tragedy if they don’t have Harvey doing Dodger Talk next season. In fact, if KFWB isn’t carrying games, but still hold the show immediately after the game. I would switch over to KFWB to listen


    Two of my great passions in life are the game of baseball and the Dodgers. For a long time now I have stopped visiting this blog or posting messages because of the fact that when one person expresses an accurate and/or negative opinion about the club, Rawitch and his little pack of followers start crying and moaning about what is said. After what I heard Sunday on Dodger talk I was appalled, but somewhat not surprised that Rawitch would do what he did. Rawitch and his rose-colored glasses (as I referred to earlier this season and he admitted to wearing), are an embarrassment to my intelligence, as well as to all knowledgeable fans of the game of baseball. Where he gets the audacity to question Mr. Harvey on his opinions and comments in regards to Dodger Talk is beyond my comprehension. In a city which is suppose to be the second largest market in the country, the Dodgers are rarely talked about on the airwaves. To me Dodger Talk is a breath of fresh air, not just because its Dodger Talk, but because Mr. Harvey is not a puppet of the Dodger organization and truly tells it like we all know it is. Josh Rawitch your peevishness and arrogance are a direct reflection of the organization you work for. An organization that has consistently failed its fans and displayed futile attempts year after year to reward this city with a championship. As a season ticket holder, all of the smoke and mirriors, and dog and pony shows, cannot take away from the fact that another season has gone by, and once again I am left with a sense that I’ve been had. So for this and other sentiments bestowed upon me by the great Dodger organization, I would like to thank the owner, whom has no clue about the game of baseball, the GM, who once again amassed a collection of has beens and never was ballplayers, the manager, who demonstrates often that he is even more clueless than the other aforementioned individuals, and you Rawitch for your actions which left me with enough distaste to allow me to easily put another misguided season behind me and in the past.



    Extremely well said..agree with everything..

    As far as the money that the Dodgers spend on their players…You need a good GM that knows how to evaluate players before he signs them..I’m not a GM, but I wouldn’t have gone near Jason Schmidt..before he was hurt…The signing of pitchers that get hurt has devastated our bullpen and it showed last night especially..Broxton has been great all year except the last 2 weeks or so…probably overworked and tired…and Saito just gave up a bad pitch…but he is a ROCK…but the bullpen is worn out from pitchers not going deep into games, as usual…

    The other most frustrating thing is the constant shuffling of the lineup by Grady..apparently the players are frustrated at this too…If we don’t replace Grady we will never win anything…He makes so many mistakes I can’t even mention them here…If I could run the team I would replace Grady and Ned…Get someone in that dugout with some fire and passion…I could name a few examples:..Kirk Gibson, Kevin Kennedy, Orel Hershiser, Joe Girardi, etc..

    Please don’t make us loyal Dodger fans suffer through another season with inept management.!


    remember to use the new restrooms it will be $1 for a #1 and $2 for a #2… (1 flush only)



    wow gban, I see our management as flawed but thats a little harsh. At the very least, we held onto the kids this year. How furious would you be if we had that Teixera rental trade and saw Loney and another Dodger prospect tearing it up in Texas right now? We can only hope that management learns from their mistakes and truly pursues an impact player or two this offseason. I personally think that our 3 biggest needs are:
    1. An everyday 3rd baseman

    2. A good defensive CF

    3. Another back of the rotation starter with a reliable track record

    If 2 of these 3 needs are met, we will be a force next year. If all 3 are met, we will have a team in serious contention for a title. If only 1 or none of these needs are met, we could be in for another heartbreaking season.


    Additionally, we either need a new manager or McCourt needs to demand that Grady stay with a consistent line-up.



    I doubt they go after a CF when Pierre is signed for 4 more years…but we do need a 3rd baseman with a power bat..not sure LaRoche will be the answer…and we do need more help in the bullpen…but it’s hard to believe mgmt will make the right choices…very frustrating year…but I knew it was coming..told Bob Harvey last night that I said about a month or so ago, that our 4 game series in Colorado was not going to end nicely..(LOL) even the great teams do poorly there..Yanks swept, Mets swept..even Pads don’t do well…so I figured it would do us in..looks like I’m right…and I had said Colorado would end up in front of us…hope that doesn’t happen, but it could very easily.


    So Josh will blast Bob Harvey for not going to the games, yet as the DODGERS PR MANAGER he won’t even go to this critical stretch of games in Colorado??? Sounds overly hypocritical.


    diehardblue….thanks for the article..loved it..and thanks message bear…I wish we could run the it would be run better and have better players and make better decisions..I’m actually serious about that..

    Let’s hope McCourt is listening to the frustration of the fans that flock to the stadium year after year to watch a team that can’t get above mediocrity because of the way it is handled…

    fire grady…ned would be nice too!!!



    “I’m actually not in Denver which is why it’s taking a little longer to get the information to you all.”

    He’s not there.


    Dear Mr. Al Campanis, can you please come back an whisper in the earhole of Mr. Frank McCourt to fire Ned, and Grady and keep his promise he made three years ago. He promised to return the Dodgers to there glory days. He has Logan White there waiting for a chance, obviously we all no has a great eye for talent, and has couple of good choices to choose from to be the next dodger manager. Let the curse be over.


    LOL, kiper I was about to rip you…LOL

    gban very well said agree with everything.

    WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS starts with management if we do not have the right leader all the moves in the world are not going to help this team.

    Very sad day!





    Ideally, the Dodgers’ offseason would include:

    Fire Grady Little ASAP.

    Find a way to keep Logan White in the organization (if that means repalacing Colletti with him, then so be it),

    Sign A-Rod to play third base, and

    Trade Furcal for a pitcher (Hu can play SS next year).


    Adevandry — I like your offeason moves. Additionally, i would say don’t go out and get an OF free agent (Tori Hunter, Jones, etc.) Doing that will be like the Luis signing where you’ll have to rotate Kemp and ethier again all season.


    My wish list,
    Raffy SS

    Martin c

    Kemp rf

    Kent 2b

    Holliday lf

    Loney 1b

    Andre cf

    LaRoche 3b

    manager- gibby







    Well, all, I’ve come here to tell you that I’ve officially called it off for myself this season. (I go through 3 phases of “giving up” — Officially, unofficially giveing up, unofficially officially giving up and finally officially giving up).

    I should have pulled the plug after the SF series, but the Dodgers teased me with beating AZ and SD 2 out of 3 times. However, I can’t let my heart lead me anymore — my head must take over. And though they may win games from here on out, the Phillies are surging and past moves by Little on this team don’t endear me to think something else different will change going forward.

    I’ll still write here, but just know I’m heartfully out of it.


    Good points. Ethier, Kemp, and Pierre would be a good outfield next season. Repko and Young can be the reserve outfielders.

    Gonzo and Saenz will be long gone. Nomar will be the backup corner infielder, Abreu can be a backup middle infielder (assuming Kent returns next year, which I kind of hope he does). LaRoche… I dunno. If A-Rod is a Dodger (longshot, but it would be an incredible signing), LaRoche becomes a spare part. Maybe include him in a Furcal trade and get a good starting pitcher. I don’t know who needs **** (well, the Giants do, but they probably won’t make that trade).


    I though Plashke’s article about the DodgerTalk broughaha was right on the money. I finally was able to listen online to what Bob Harvey said, and it’s what has been reported.

    Josh has a right–a duty, in fact–to defend the management, here and on DodgerTalk, and anywhere else. And, he and the team deserve credit, because this is a pretty harsh board (at least over the last 2 months), and its open and he’s responsive.

    I think that Bob Harvey does a great job in not being a “homer” as he says, and not coming from the management perspective. He’s a fan, and that comes through. Should he have more interaction with the management??? I’ll leave that to him and the management, but the caveat is clear–that interaction is going to include a lot of tough questions that much of rest of the media does not ask.

    The result is a natural clash. I suspect that Josh is frustrated like everyone else. And as the PR director, when his bosses are getting blamed for it, that’s particularly frustrating. So, Plashke’s right–I think he figuratively broke his bat over his knee on that pitch when he called the show an embarrassment.

    But, that clash has to continue–and like this board, it’s good for the team. You want this board, and DodgerTalk, and any other outlet out there, talking about the Dodgers, and having a place for the fans to respond and give their opinions.


    California — Pierre is hear and no team will take him unless we pay at least half of that salary.

    Nice SP rotation, but I still think you bring back Wolf for a discount (which I’m sure he would agree to being a SoCal boy and past statements of his) to compete for a SP spot or in the pen as a backup SP.


    californiaautorebuilder, how do you expect to get Holliday? If I recall correctly, he’s not a free agent. And LA is stuck with Pierre for several seasons.

    If you’re going to spend the money and resources that Holliday will command, might as well just go and get A-Rod and solve 90% of the Dodgers problems this season. Watch him break Bonds’ HR record as a Dodger.


    linkfink — I agree with you, but the bottom line is that you’ll have to hit them where it hurts — not going to games or season ticket holders not renewing (money). Don’t know if that will happen though.


    cali my boy how did you wake up??

    gibby mgr

    Piazza-hitting coach/PH

    hersishiser-pitching coach

    Lopes-bench coach

    Butler-3rd basecoach

    Duncan-1st base coach


    i woke up, with the only hope that the lakers might win something, then i really woke up and came up with, there’s always next year.


    Advandry — I didn’t think ARod would be a consideration, but given the offenses woes AND the 3B rotation the last few years, I think it should be given serious consideration. Sure, payroll would increase next year, but Furcal’s $13 million will be gone and (like others noted here), you may be able to trade him next season for something.

    As other high-priced vets (old people) leave (Nomar, Luis, Kent), that’s frees up more payroll. Given the young talent we have, you won’t have to pay them for a while, but when you do have to, like I’ve mentioned here, you do an unorthodox signing and sign them (right off the back) to 4-year deals worth an average of the middle-to-top players in the MLB at their position. The kids would jump at that signing and the Dodgers have the resources for that.

    You also bring in Girardi, who younger players rave about and keep Logan, who can scout the next wave to replace potential players leaving.


    I like Duncan’s intesity(especially when he took Peavy out of his game) Donnelly is the one that has no clu. Plus Duncan is a former Dodger that was my trend


    How many baserunning blunders have the Dodgers had this year between 1st and second base? Hos many times have the Dodgers been picked off at first? Controlling that is basically Duncan’s only job. He’s horrible.


    Orth Joseph,

    Give me one reason (other than Colletti’s relationship with Borass) why the Dodgers can’t sign A-Rod? There is no reason.

    Over half the team is making the league minimum. The rest of the players will be gone in 1-2 years.

    If Colletti really won’t work with Boras, then he needs to be fired. That is unacceptable for a GM to completely avoid attempting to bring in players simply because of their agent.


    This should be tonight’s line up
    Young cf

    Hu ss

    kemp rf

    kent 2b

    loney 1b

    martin c

    andre lf

    laroche 3b


    I want your opinions:

    Why shouldn’t we pay half of JP’s salary in order to trade him? His defense (arm) alone is killing the pitchers.


    We won’t win if Pierre is in CF again next year. That’s not having anything to do with his offense. If Coletti dosen’t recognize this than we are really screwed.


    how many pitches did Nomar get in 3AB?

    -Nomar 4 pitches

    How many did LaRoche got in 3AB?

    -LaRoche 11 pitches!!

    Go figure!!!

    at least LaRoche makes the pitcher work!


    Advandry — I know since the Drew situation that Colletti was pi$$ed. But I hope Coletti realizes that (I can’t believe I’m saying this) Boras was doing his job and advised his client on hDrew’s best intersts (i.e. that year, the OF market was weak, Drew could opt out and he would be the top OF pursued). True, Drew told Coletti he was PLANNING on not opting out, but until the signature is on a piece of paper, nothing was certain.

    If anything, I hope Coletti realzies that it was Drew, not Boras, who opted out. Of course, Boras got a bigger cut, but again, that’s his job.

    Given that history, do you really think Boras can get $30-35 million that he’s asking. In short, I mentioned here a while back that 7-8 years ago when that contract was signed, $25 million was ridiculous. 7-8 years later, it’s STILL ridiculous. What’s going to have to happen is that SOME team will have to be willing to potentially offer that. The only way ARod will opt out is if Boras can convince him there is a team that Boras is talking with NOW that will do this. And I think Arod has only 10 days after the WS to do this, so if the Dodgers are serious, they should talk to Boras now.

    Of course, Boras could tell ARod there is a team that will pay(when there really isn’t, as he’s been accused in teh past of doing) to force teh Yankees to renegotiate and ante up. The risk there is no one signing him for more than he is making now.

    McCourse has indicated a willingness to increase payroll (loaiza signing) so we’ll see.


    Good point, Van.

    Nomar would be a good pinch hitter next season, facing relief pitchers who don’t care about pitch counts. I’m sick of his stupid OCD batting glove, kick-the-dirt routine.

    Jungar, I think Pierre is a decent CFer, and certainly not the reason why LA is in 3rd/4th place this year. He’s not great, but there are worse CF in the league.


    Orth, LA can’t talk to him now. It would be tampering, which is what Boston was accused of in the Drew situation.

    LA should be able to afford A-Rod easily. Kemp, Ethier, Billinglsey, Broxton, Martin, Loney, Hu, Abreu, Young… etc. are all making peanuts.


    An ARod signing would send a short-term shock wave at the signing but would address the big bat needed. As Kemp, Loney and Ethier mature, can you imagine the offense then?

    However, how do you think ARod would handle the NL? Anyone knkow how’s he’s done against the NL?


    Advandry — I know the kids are making peanuts but how do you keep them once they are eligible with an Arod signing. You don’t want to lose all of these kids.

    Whta do you think of my answer about contracts (4-year, mid- to high- average MLB salary of their position)?


    By the time a player gets to the bigs, you’d think they would know which direction 3rd base was. That’s not Duncan’s fault. These young guys are our future, which looks bright, but their present base running weirdness cannot be laid on Duncan.



    Starting CFers that Pierre is better than (my opinion only) :

    Corey Patterson – O’s,

    Coco Crisp – BoSox,

    Jacque Jones – Cubs,

    Jerry Owens – ChiSox,

    Willy Taveras – Rox,

    Amezaga or De Aza – Marlins,

    DeJesus or Gathright – Royals,

    Bill Hall – Brewers,

    Nate McClouth – Bucs,

    Dave Roberts – Giants,

    Jim Edmonds – Cards,

    Marlon Byrd – Rags,

    Nook Logan – Nats

    …and for the money he’s making, maybe even Vernon Wells should be on this list.

    Nook Logan


    Knouffbrock — I understand the wetness behind the ear the kids have, but that becomes a coaching issue, which needs to be worked on.

    My question is — when do they work on things like this. I’ve been on them all year about how bad the defense is. Seems to be an error every game. Earlier in the year, it wasn’t affecting games and no one talked about it or brought it up. But I knew it would bite them and it is. Whose fault is that? Again, coaching. Get sthe guys on the field and PRACTICE (and I don’t care if they whine or think it’s bush league — when your fielding *****, get out there.)


    and this is based on what? avg, runs scored etc. Which of these guys have given up more extra bases because of there arm????



    “Advandry — I know the kids are making peanuts but how do you keep them once they are eligible with an Arod signing. You don’t want to lose all of these kids.”

    An A-rod signing would bring in 4 million visitors, which is McCourt’s goal, and would pay for itself.

    If the Galaxy can pay for Beckham’s $250 million contract before he plays one game for them, then the Dodgers can certainly profit from having A-Rod in Dodger Blue.

    L.A. loves a winning team, and A-Rod would make them winners.


    how about Kim Ng for GM??? also having a vet in place of the kids would be nice… how many times has Kemp run through a stop sign??? critical situation in the 2nd game yesterday with 2 on and the pinch hitter is Delwin Young… please!


    Advandry — 4 million would help in that cause, for sure.

    I’d still like to know how ARod performs against the NL.



    Which of those guys would you rather have than Pierre?

    How many of them can work a count, get as many hits, and steal as many bases as Pierre?

    I’m not a Pierre homer, but I see the value he has. He gets to more fly balls than most CFers because of his speed. He has a great work ethic and supposedly is a great teammate and lockerroom presence. He’s won a WS.

    How many games have the Dodgers lost this season solely based on Pierre’s arm? Seriously, think about that.

    I think he gets a bad rap from Dodger fans who want to see a HR hitting CF, but the reality is that very few CF are HR hitters, and a player shouldn’t have to hit HRs to be considered a good baseball player.


    Here is what the line up should look like next year:
    Pierre LF

    Furcal SS

    ARod 3B

    Loney 1B

    Kemp CF

    Martin C

    Ethier RF

    Abreu 2B (Assuming Kent retires)

    If Kent returns, he platoons at 2B and bats 5th and everybody else moves down behind him. This is where the Dodgers need to be next year, LaRoche has potential, but he also has a bad back which cannot be good at his young age. Also, LaRoche has had his opportuinities, fewer than the other kids granted, but he has done nothing to prove or to make me a believer that he is a phenom. He would bring back something valuable in a trade. If we also assume that they will not go after starting pitching, I can live with a rotation of: Penny, Lowe, Bills, Schmidt, Loaiza. Not bad and you have some kids in the wings who by next year will be ready to step in just in case.


    Coco Crisp is much better on defense than Pierre (and Edmonds)and the rest of those guys will be watching the playoffs at home with Pierre.

    Hall is a utlity player who sometimes plays CF and Jones is really a left or Right fielder.


    Kiper what makes you think Schmidt will pitch again and pitch well?

    I don’t exactly trust his words nor the words of our medical staff or GM.

    I am not saying he won’t pitch again and pitch well, I just will need to see it before beliving it. I would plan as if he was never going to throw again if I was the GM


    Jungar, I would rather have Pierre than Crisp. Boston fans can’t wait to get rid of Crisp.

    Hall and Jones have been playing CF recently.

    Would you really rather have Edmonds than Pierre? Edmonds is old, an injury concern, and hitting around .230 this year. IIRC, he’s making more $$$ than Pierre also. No thanks.


    Well, again jungar, assuming, notice I wrote assuming. If you read the papers and listen to Dodger management, they are confident that Schmidt will pitch next season. Now, I know your going to jump on me about what management says, but Schmidt is not the first pitcher to undergo this type of surgery and the majority come back. If he does not make it back, again, I wrote we have a couple of young guys in the wings.


    yahoo sports:

    The Los Angeles Dodgers stood pat at the trading deadline, in spite of needs in the starting rotation, bullpen and in the middle of their order.

    The future is promising. Indeed, many baseball people believe the Dodgers are a juggernaut waiting to happen. Meantime, in 2008, the Dodgers will mark the 20th anniversary of their last playoff series victory. That’s a lot of waiting.


    What I am saying in advance Kiper is that if he “banks” on Schmidt as one of five starters that will be a problem. I am just saying it now thats all. It’s not a dodger thing, I don’t trust any arm going under such a major surgery…

    So I can said “assuming the dodgers dont go after…I can live with a rotation of”

    and I am saying..I can’t.

    That’s all. And that’s not even getting into the Loazia issue. Yeah the dodgers will need another quality starter to begin the year.


    From your keyboard to G-d’s ear!!! That would be great, assuming that Schmidt can come back. What about Kuo and Wolf? Don’t you think at least one of the kids can make it? I’m not sure about Loaiza. But, it sure would be nice.


    Nook Logan doesn’t belong in the big leagues, heck, he doesn’t even belong in Triple A. You might not like Pierre, but be reasonable when you make a point, please.


    I thought Schmidt’s surgery required some new-type of process where he’s got home screws and anchors in his shoulder. It’s far from a sure thing and certainly not a routine recovery. I think he is in fact one of the first MLB pitchers to undergo this type of surgery.

    EDIT: Here’s the direct quote.


    Schmidt is undergoing his rehabilitation with Phoenix-based celebrity physical therapist Brett Fischer and has had regular exams at the Kerlan-Jobe Clinic since June 20 surgery to reattach the labrum, repair a frayed biceps tendon and clean scarring in the bursa sac. The combination of damage is believed responsible for Schmidt’s dramatic loss of velocity, which led to a 1-4 record and 6.31 ERA in six starts.

    The torn labrum required the insertion of anchor sutures, a breakthrough in medical hardware used to reattach cartilage material to the bone. There is no extensive documentation on the ability of Major League pitchers to return to their previous levels with this procedure, because the pool of patients is relatively small.

    “They didn’t tell me of another player who came back from this and I didn’t ask,” said Schmidt. “Before going in, they didn’t suspect this is what they’d find. But when they were finished, they said there are some things that can be career-ending and I had none of those things. Coming out, nobody said I can’t come back fine, so I don’t doubt I can. Nobody has told me otherwise.”



    I can live with Pierre in left field btw. That arm is a problem in CF. He catches the ball fine. Not great, he gets bad jumps but decent enough.


    Jungar — Catching the ball is part of CF job (which he blew in SD). Getting the ball in is another (which should have embarassed the heck out of him when he lackadasically threw the ball in and that Dback extended that single into a double. I can also count numerous times I saw guys rounding second when the ball was inches from JP’s hands and they continue to run. Pathetic.)


    You can not count on Schmidt. No way. Doing so is setting yourself up to have to sign David Wells again mid-year.


    Repeating my post from a month or two ago. I think it is still appropriate.


    Consider the fact that to Colletti and Little these are just jobs, albeit very well paid jobs. They have no Dodger roots, no Dodger tradition. Consider Mr. McCourt, who is basically a high powered sports franchise investor from the east. Had there been another valuable franchise available at the time, he would probably own some other organization than the Dodgers. That’s not the same emotional investment as the O’Malley family. None of these people have grown up with THE DODGER PRIDE that I think all of us fans share whether we’re 16 or 76. That’s just the way sports seem to have changed, and that may be why we find such discrepancies in our attitudes between management and many of us fans.

    Little probably has as much ego and determination to do things his way as the ego of people like Gonzo that he wants to protect. If he loses this job, he’ll go back to his North Carolina retirement well taken care of financially, and remembering Dodgers will only be a tiny blip on his memory radar screen over the course of his career. Not exactly a Tommy LaSorda kind of involvement.

    Colletti is probably still more a Giant at heart than a Dodger, no matter who makes out his checks. That’s the problem with not having chosen some people with traditional Dodger roots, people for whom the Dodgers are a passion and a purpose in itself.

    As for Mr. McCourt, as long as we stream over 3 million fans into the stadium each year, the investment is well. I think what might motivate him to bring a winner to that stadium would be if he became a “laughing stock” as a winning incapable owner with his charity and society friends in the bigger community. I hope I’m wrong on that score, and he can prove his case by cleaning house and getting some people in whom Dodger blood runs BLUE.

    Where are those people with THE DODGER PRIDE? I think there are still many, if we just look – like Logan White, like Gibson, like Hershiser, maybe even like Valentine, and many more that I’m sure you could add.

    Sorry for this philosophical diatribe, but I think essentially it is THE DODGER PRIDE that separates us fans from the current management and maybe even the ownership of our beloved Dodgers. It is a feeling we’ve all grown up with, and it is hard to acquire by an outsider on the quick. I hope that when the ownership wakes to this reality, next time they will pay some attention to this factor in their management personnel selection.


    Messagebear, what makes you think Gibson has Dodger pride in him? He only played a few seasons here. I like the guy, but his heart is with the Detroit Tigers.


    jungar, whats your opinion about signing Torii Hunter, trading Ethier and LaRoche to the Pirates for Gorzelanny (or another team for a Gorzelanny type) next season? Is that the kind of move you want to see? I know third base is a concern but if we can fill a defensive void in center and at the same time improve our OF offensively, it seems to make sense. Plus you add another reliable, youthful arm to the rotation and can let Schmidt Loaiza battle it out for the #5 spot. I know its not the HUGE A-Rod signing but that only seems to address one of our concerns and kills our resources. Plus I’d be fine with Abreu/Hu/Nomar battling for 3rd.


    That would be a bad trade.

    Torii Hunter is not the offensive answer, and it still leaves LA with a hole at 3B.

    ARod and Atkins are 2 3B that LA should target.


    If you want to trade for a pitcher, why not trade Furcal? Hu can step in rght now and play SS, saving millions of $$$ in salary that can go toward a free agent 3B. Furcal can be traded for a starting pitcher also.


    I think trading Furcal for a proven front line pitcher would be good. Gorzellany or someone similar would be my idea. Furcal was great for the last couple of months last year. He has not been worth the money this year, and there is no telling at this point whether his ankle will fully recover next year. Next year is also likely to be his last with the Dodgers. If we’re going to have to keep Pierre, it seems to me that the leadoff position is more natural and more productive for him. We should be letting Hu play SS the rest of the way this season in order to see how he can handle it.


    Messagebear — I agree with some of your commentary above, but the BoSox don’t necessarily ooze tradition and they won.

    Any exec is going to try and make his team good. I would be worried if Coletti started giving the kids away for vets. Look at SF — probably the oldest bunch of guys out there since their philosophy (IMO) is that guys who haven’t won aren’t playing for the money — they’re playing to win a ring so let’s get the guys who haven’t won and build a team around that. Worked for one year, but i wouldn’t build a team around that due to injury-prone vets.


    charris, look above. I don’t particularly WANT Pierre in CF, but I wouldn’t mind having him, especially if Furcal gets traded. LA would need a leadoff man, for one thing. I wouldn’t mind Pierre in LF either.


    good perspective messagebear, I just don’t think Furcal alone would be enough to get a front-line guy (they would only get him for a season). Do you think Pierre in CF next year is a big issue or is it just me? I know Torii Hunter isn’t A-Rod offensively but I think he’d greatly improve our team both offensively and defensively. Most people here seem to think that Hunter is just a mediocre hitter and forget that he’s one of the best defensive outfielders in the game.


    Advandry — Wouldn’t want Pierre in LF. Too much at stake with guys rounding 3B for home. If anything, put him in RF if moving him at all.


    I don’t think Furcal has much trade value right now. He’s having a terrible season, he’s been hurt and he makes a lot of money, so as with Pierre, trading Furcal means that the Dodgers need to eat some money. I believe Furcal makes about 13 mil a year, that’s a big contract for a guy who really hasn’t had the numbers people thought he would. I’m just saying that I think if your gonna pay somebody to play elsewhere, I’d keep Furcal and trade Pierre.


    Here is my absolute dream scenario for the offseason:

    -Sign Arod for 3B

    -Sign Tori Hunter for CF

    -Buy-out and Re-sign Randy Wolf. He’s motivated to come back, wants to play for the Dodgers, and is willing to take a pay-cut.

    -Move Pierre to LF (lets face it, Ned does not have the humility or creativity to get rid of him).

    -Dangle Furcal and Ethier as trade bait. This would lighten the payroll by removing Furcal’s 13 mil as well as capitalize on the oppportunity to sell high with Ethier.

    -Insert HU at short and either have Kent, Nomar, or LaRoche at 2B. Of the three, I would prefer LaRoche, but chances are Ned would goes with Kent or Nomar given the chance. Also, I’ll say it here, TRADING LaROCHE WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE. He has been mismanaged by Ned and Grady perhaps more than any other player this year. He’s also been playing hurt. Believe me, this guy is gonna be a masher. Having that kind of cheap, young power at second base would be priceless.

    Thus, under my dream scenario we’d be left with this.

    1) Pierre LF

    2) Russ C

    3) Loney 1B

    4) ARod 3B

    5) Hunter CF

    6) Kemp RF

    7) LaRoche 2B

    8) Hu SS

    Pitching Staff







    im going to try and guess the lineup tonight!



    Kemp… RF

    Kent… 2B





    i don’t like it but that’s just a guess!

    if they still want to win games they should play Loney and Ethier until the end!!!


    I guess alot depends on how some dominos fall. First one being Jeff Kent. If he comes back then fine, but if not than the need for a legit in his prime run producing bat is even more important. I guess I felt that was needed heading into 07 and it is needed heading into 08. The rest can be worked out I think. I am not an A-rod fan and I am usually one to say go with all the kids…but we have to have at least one legit threat in the middle of the order between age 27 and 33.


    charris is right, you put the weakest arm in left. The strongest is usually in right. Pierre is not the greatest centerfielder in the world, he gets terrible jumps on balls and looks shaky on high fly balls. His inadequacies would not be as noticeable in left.


    i agree with u on signing A-Rod! put LaRoche on 2nd!!!

    and also i would love them to get Wolf back!!! he can still pitch!!! and most importantly he loves the Dodgers!!!


    wow I really agree with Manny but Manny no way we sign 200 to 300 million of contracts for two players this offseason.

    Also, in dangling Ethier/Furcal I would hope to get a arm back in the Charris/Gorzellany model.


    the best scenario for me if the organization signs players that needs to be here is…





    Ethier… RF

    Martin… C

    Abreu/Hu… SS



    So the dodgers can play spoilers today. They can make sure the rockies don’t get into the playoffs.

    I’ll be in the neighborhood later on, and I was wondering if maybe you wanted to get some frozen yogurt, or perhaps a whole meal of food, if that would be agreeable. ******.


    For the record… I do hope the dodgers sign A-Rod… I just hope that they don’t use that as an excuse to not field a good team around him.. (Like Texas did). So would it make more sense to pick up Lowell for ALLOT cheaper and fill other needs with better players?


    Charris — Pierre wouldn’t be throwing to home but there’s more of a shot at 2B or at least hitting the cutoff man.




    we need an A-Rod talent in this team!

    Lowell is like Nomar last year when Nomar is still productive!!!

    so i wouldn’t want him!!!


    Signing Lowell is an incredibly stupid idea when we already have Nomar under contract for 2008. Loney is set at 1st, so Nomar would be a waste of space with Lowell here.


    I feel we already have the team around “HIM”, we just need the “HIM”

    -3 excellent bullpen guys coming back

    -5 starters coming back (feel we need another as stated above)

    -JP/Kemp/Ethier/Loney Kent/Abreu/LaRoche/Furcal/Martin…


    Who would have thought back in the middle of June, that we’d be here with 11 games left in the season, and the Dodgers playing “spoilers” to the Rockies. This has to be absolutely rock bottom. I don’t want to hear that the Rockies have all these young and talented kids and better talent than LA, that’s a bunch of BS. What the Rockies have is a manager, period, end of story. Clint Hurdle is proof that a manager, a good manager, makes a difference during the season. I love the Dodgers with a passion, and I have since I was 4 years old, so that’s alot of years of passion. So when we’re playing spoilers to the Rockies, it’s a very sad day in Dodger baseball, at least it is to this Dodger fan.
    P.S. No matter what happens I still bleed blue..but come on!!! Nobody see’s the problem? (Grady)


    I would like to have Hunter in CF, but that would mean that we either have to deal Pierre or move Pierre to LF and trade Ethier. Ethier might bring us a front line SP, and that may need to be considered, because we can’t rely on Schmidt or Wolf coming back, and I don’t trust Loaiza being more than another Hendrickson.



    are u actually still think about Nomar?

    Nomar could be our number one pinch hitter next year!!!

    don’t tell me u still want him at 3rd?


    wow I really agree with Manny but Manny no way we sign 200 to 300 million of contracts for two players this offseason.

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 01:31 PM


    I think you are absolutely right…but a guy can dream…

    More realistically though, I’d be totally OK with signing A-Rod OR Hunter. If we sign A-Rod, we’ll stick with the LaRoche at 2B model and keep Ethier to play CF. If we sign Hunter, we can trade Ethier.

    Under either scenario, Furcal is expendable. Hu is probably just as good as Furcal at a fraction of the cost. Hu and Loney should be locked in at SS and 1B. Kent should be locked in at 2B if he returns. And Nomar and LaRoche should be left to be fill 3B and/or 2B if there are holes there.


    Is LaRoche even a 2B? Why not figure Abreu at 2B instead?

    Why LA could trade Furcal easier and for more value than Pierre: contract length, availablity of other available players at their position.

    Let’s say for instance that you are the Giants. You have a need for **** to replace Vizquel, and a CF to replace Roberts. Which would you rather have – Furcal or Pierre?

    You see why Furcal is more valuable?


    Van_19 — I have to think of Nomar since he’d be a high-priced pinch hitter. Would he want that role? Would you have him platoon with Loney? or ARod (if here)?


    Nomar is a team guy, and at 8 mil, he knows that he won’t get that kind of money anywhere else and he’ll take the money and run. Nomar is guy who can spell Loney and whoever is at 3b, maybe once a week in each position and he’ll be a great bat off the bench in late innings, unlike Saenz. So Nomar should not be a deterrent when it comes to considering a new third baseman.


    Orth, if you sign A-Rod, Nomore goes to where he should be… riding the pine, backing up Loney and A-Rod, and pinch-hitting.


    Van_19 — I have to think of Nomar since he’d be a high-priced pinch hitter. Would he want that role? Would you have him platoon with Loney? or ARod (if here)?

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 01:53 PM

    what if he doesn’t want the role?

    good question!!!

    that is his problem! do u mean to tell me that if he doesn’t want to be the PH we should just let A-Rod go somewhere else?

    he could platoon Loney at 1B and A-Rod at 3B!!!


    Kiper and Advandry — I just don’t see Nomar taking that position or Coletti. I don’t think Nomar would want to be in that position given that he would need to sign somewhere the following year (think Gonzalez this year). Would he start complaining that he needs playing time?

    Also, because he’s here next year, that may influence Coleeti’s thinking — I don’t need ARod (or a distraction in Nomar) for this year.


    For the record… I do hope the dodgers sign A-Rod… I just hope that they don’t use that as an excuse to not field a good team around him.. (Like Texas did). So would it make more sense to pick up Lowell for ALLOT cheaper and fill other needs with better players?

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 01:41 PM


    Are you Ned Coletti?

    Signing Lowell would be classic Coletti. An over-priced vet entering the twilight of his career who would block the deveopment of our young studs. We don’t need another Gonzo/Nomar type clogging up our infield. If you’re gonna sign a guy thats gonna impede the devlopment of potential studs you better make sure he’s a star in his prime. Otherwise, have the stones to stick it out with your young guns.


    They should sign Lowell for four years to man third. And get Mike Lamb to platoon with Loney. Oh, and I think Darren Erstad is on the market next year, he’d be a great to platoon with Kemp and Ethier. If Colletti is as smart as I think he is, these few signings should be no prob.


    If Nomar doesn’t want the role?? Are you serious? Then he can go somewhere else and earn, maybe, 1 million per season to play every day. He can no longer play a full season, that’s been obvious for the last 5 years, the Dodgers pay him 8 million dollars, he’s gonna say no? I don’t think so. And he’s not leaving LA, it’s home and the wife and twins love LA.


    Van, “Him” in this case is A-rod, but “HIM” can be any player who is a in his prime 27-33 middle of the order type bat. Puljos, Vlade, Cabrerra..u get the picture. We have to get someone like that either in FA (A-rod) or make a trade…The rest of the team is set. An A-rod type would make Loney and Kemp alot better.



    Kent is a 2b, LaRoche is not. Just because Kent is slow doesn’t mean LaRoche can play 2B better. I mean, can Olmedo play 2B? No, and neither can LaRoche.


    The more I’m thinking about it, the Dodgers should sign ARod. As an organization, they need to have a good “bomb” announcement to go with the two bad “bombs” of recent memory — the trading of Piazza and the trading of LoDuca and Mota (although in hindsight, the LoDuca trade brought us Martin).


    Jungar — ARod would make those 2 better. Once ARod is here for 4-5 years, we’ve got the 2 ARods behind him.



    im not saying LaRoche is better!!!

    but dude! if kent can play 2B with that Kind of speed why can’t LaRoche!!!

    and LaRoche at 2nd would be a good fit coz he has a power like Kent!!!


    All pros and cons aside, does anyone seriously think that McCourt would give Colletti the checkbook to sign A-Rod after the Schmidt experience?


    Question on LaRoche… Does anybody care that this kid has back problems and has not shown signs of being a productive major league hitter? I know that he’s had limited AB’s in LA (11 for 57) but you guys are debating whether he can play 3rd or 2nd or LF, the guy needs to get healthy first. He does not impress me as much as the other guys do. I just feel that on LaRoche, the jury is still out.


    messagebear, I absolutely think McCourt would open the checkbook for ARod. No doubt in my mind. McCourt is a winner and he wants to put a winning product on the field.



    LaRoche is working so hard in the minors just to get here in the majors!!! and i think that is the reason why he can’t stay healthy!!! like repko!!!

    if he is healthy we all know his got alot of power!!!


    Messagebear — Think Darren Dreifort. Insurance paid most of that 5 year / $55 million contract. If Schmidt goes down, insurance picks up a good chunk of it (I heard it’s about 75-85%).


    Kent is a 2b, LaRoche is not. Just because Kent is slow doesn’t mean LaRoche can play 2B better. I mean, can Olmedo play 2B? No, and neither can LaRoche.

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 02:02 PM


    What basis do you have to make that statement? Seems to me like you have none.

    I’m sure there are plenty of similar examples, but here’s a few of the top of my head. Loney and Ankiel were both PITCHERS before they were moved to 1B and CF respectively. Biggio was a catcher before he was moved to 2B. If I had time to do some research I could probably go on ad-nausium.

    LaRoche is a decent althete. I think its safe to say a 24 year old LaRoche is more athletic than a 36-39 year old Kent. The kid can learn to play 2B. No one is saying he’s gonna a gold glover but I’m sure he’d be fine.

    Oh, and also, comparing LaRoche to Olmeado is ridiculous.



    Not only is the jury still out, the evidence isn’t even in concerning LaRoche. He has the family pedigree for baseball, which a lot of people value, and he has shown good progress in the minors. Along with that there have been obvious physical problems, and he just may be prone to them – a back problem at his age does not sound very promising. Unless he gets the chance and does prove himself in Spring Training, I think he will deservedly be back in Vegas for at least some of next season. I like the potential ascribed to him by people who seem to know those things, but he still has to prove that he is healthy and can do it at the major league level.



    Not only is the jury still out, the evidence isn’t even in concerning LaRoche. He has the family pedigree for baseball, which a lot of people value, and he has shown good progress in the minors. Along with that there have been obvious physical problems, and he just may be prone to them – a back problem at his age does not sound very promising. Unless he gets the chance and does prove himself in Spring Training, I think he will deservedly be back in Vegas for at least some of next season. I like the potential ascribed to him by people who seem to know those things, but he still has to prove that he is healthy and can do it at the major league level.


    Messagebear — My point about the insurance is that that is part of the contract expenses and protects McCourt and the Dodgers.

    Given that, McCourt would and should open the checkbook. LA needs the star and NY already has Jeter.


    All the same things were said about Konerko as you guys are saying now about LaRoche.

    When seeing him live 2 years ago with the Jacksonville 5 (Loney, Martin, Kemp, LaRoche, Guzman) he was by far the best player on the field.

    It wasn’t even close.


    I would be very curious to see how much of the Schmidt situation can be recovered through insurance. That would, of course, have a big bearing on everything. Nobody will probably disclose that, because the insurance contract may prohibit it. I doubt that insurance companies actually cover much of that type of situation, but I could very easily be wrong.


    Jungar, how did the LoDuca trade bring us Martin?



    im not saying LaRoche is better!!!

    but dude! if kent can play 2B with that Kind of speed why can’t LaRoche!!!

    and LaRoche at 2nd would be a good fit coz he has a power like Kent!!!

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 02:05 PM


    Van_cute_19, are you Laroche’s mom? He is NOT a 2B. He can only play 3B, and he is an error machine there also. Yes he can hit, but that doesn’t mean he should play 2B.


    jungar, I can remember when Konerko was the can’t miss kid of the Dodgers back in ’96 and ’97. The Dodgers gave up on him awfully fast and they traded him for an All Star closer (Jeff Shaw) but if I recall correctly, he never had back problems. That’s just my take. I could be wrong.



    My point was that people are talking like LaRoche can replace Kent at 2B next year, while

    1) he’s not a 2B

    2) Abreu and Young ARE 2B.

    It’s like the person who asked earlier int he thread if Pierre could play 3B. C’mon guys, this isn’t Nintendo baseball.

    I brought up Olmedo at 2B to should how absurd the notion of moving LaRoche to 2B was.



    are u insulting me?

    im not even a woman!

    he is still young and that means he can still learn to play that position!!!

    i don’t know what do u feel about LaRoche but with a guy that talented u need to put him in any position just to get that Bat!!!

    he just need some training!!!


    I remember the day they traded Konerko, they were in San Francisco, I remember him walking away with Tommy Lasorda, another great GM we had. Considering we got Jeff Shaw, who gave a couple of good seasons, but where is he now, and how many homeruns does Konerko have in his career. 274 in 10 mlb seasons.


    oh someone else said the Loduca trade brought us Martin. It didn’t but it was a trade made knowing that Martin would be catching in the future. But it did bring us Penny…

    Yeah you are right Kiper the Konerko thing had nothing about possible back issues.

    Yeah you don’t trade hitters for pitchers and espically don’t trade them for soft tossing relivers who are 36 like Shaw was while being 6 games out of the playoffs.

    Not saying that LaRoche is can’t miss but considering our problems at 3b, we shouldnt be throwing any away (baring A-rod/Cabrerra), unless of course you trust Nomar to play 162 next year


    Van_19 — i agree with your assessment that LaRouche could play 2B. These guys are athletes and the organization needs to determine if he can make that switch. The determination, however, would include the need for a 2B, which is up for debate. You’d have to make the argument that Advandry is making in that you already have 2 good 2B and would LaRouche, after the switch, be better than either of them.



    You still have not provided a reasonable basis for saying LaRoche can’t play 2B. I think you’re just pulling that out of your you know what.

    A move from 3B to 2B is not as drastic as a move from CF to 3B. Moreover, Olmedo to 2B is somewhat absurd. In contrast LaRoche to 2B is very plausible. I still don’t see your point there.



    I’d have LaRoche’s bat at 2B over Abreu’s and Youngs any day. If if you have to sacrafice some defense.

    Also, can you show me some proof that LaRoche is an error-machine. I suspect you’re making that one up as well.


    To me the third base situation seems simple, either:

    1. Sign Arod

    2. Trade whoever Florida wants outside Bills, Kemp and Loney for Miggy.

    3. Give Andy a real shot. ( Preferably against Redman instead of Francis in the daytime you ***** Grady. )

    4. Dont sign Lowell.

    5. FIRE GRADY!!!!!


    cannot disagree with your 11:32 post. it is definitely a coaches responsibility to work on this.

    i think it is fair to say, though, it is not Duncan’s fault when some bad decisions are made by a player while running the bases.


    I hope Kent comes back, but I have my doubts. He’s proved year in, and year out he can still contribute in this game.
    As far as all the Laroche comments, they seem split as to whether he should stay, or go. I don’t think he would be worth much in a trade with his physical problems at such an early age. He has yet to prove himself in my opinion. Granted he’s had limited playing time. His defense is pretty good, but his hitting never came around to expectations.

    To all the posts about offering up Ethier for trade bait, I’m sorry, but I have to disagree. Even with his limited playing time, he is starting to come into his own. He’ll only get better.


    Thanks lefttttt7, I know the first two are unrealistic. Throwing Andy out to face Jeff Francis in the daytime reeked of letting Nomar sleep in.


    Agreed jjriley. There’s nothing extremely flashy about Ethier’s game, but he is going to be very solid…doesn’t he have like 10 assists in the outfield?


    jjriley, I agree. LaRoche is nowhere near being ready for the majors and his injury is not good. When a player who is 24 and 6’1″ about 220 lbs, is probably going to need a lot care for that back. I don’t argue that he is a terrific talent and may be a 20 to 30 HR guy, but at this point I would rather the Dodgers move him over Ethier. I am not saying they should trade LaRoche, but Ethier will be a guy who will always be around .300 with decent power. I believe that with Gonzo gone next season, Ethier and Kemp will get their shot on a daily basis.



    Moving from 3B to 2B is not as easy as it seems. How many instances can you remember where this has happened before?

    The point is that Abreu and Young are second baseman, so it makes no sense to try to put LaRoche there.

    LaRoche’s best position is at third base. If A-Rod or a top 3B come to LA, then LaRoche should be traded.

    I’m not a LaRoche hater, but he seems to be injury prone, he has quite a few errors (check hs stats), and he seesm to have hit a plateau already.



    actually a girl made this email address!

    my ex-GF!

    her name is vanessa! that’s why it’s van!!!

    my name is Jan!


    All the talk about LaRoche “being an error machine” well let’s see, 46 attempts 3 errors. I don’t see that as an error machine, does anybody else see him that way?


    I would think Frank would pay some of Pierre’s contract if we had a taker. Pierre and LaRoche and a young minor leaguer for good young starting pitcher.


    Just a thought, but if they trade Furcal, and pick up A-Rod, put him at his original position at SS, and put Nomar/Abreu at 3rd.
    With all the scenarios that have been posted, how about that one?


    McCourt would have to jump at the chance of someone taking Pierre, regardless of how much he’d have to pay. Don’t you think?
    Oh, in honor of my friend calautobuilder



    As players:

    I like Ethier.

    I like Kemp.

    I do not like Pierre.

    I don’t mind Ethier in LF and Kemp in RF but I do not think we would have enough slugging from OF if it was Ethier, Kemp and Pierre.


    jjriley, ARod said earlier this month in an interview with the NY Post that he was not interested in going back to SS, due to his weight increase since his SS days and he says that he’s worked to hard to make the move again.


    cute: I never said your use of exclamation points made you a girl. Just asking why you go overboard with them.



    I think A-rod is a better fit at 3B. It’ll preserve his health. Plus, I think he’s comfortable there now. There is no real need to move him. We have Furcal and Hu ready to take over.


    Alright who started this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    kiper It was just a thought. They are stuck with Nomar, and Loney is a lock in at 1st. They’re also stuck with Pierre, so he should be put in RF, and either Ethier, or Kemp should play CF.


    u didn’t ask.

    u actually ask me if im LaRoche’s mom.

    so that mean ur saying im a woman.

    i don’t know why i keep using( !!! ), before i used to do this (…) is it that bad? No!

    so mind ur own businness!


    u didn’t ask.

    u actually ask me if im LaRoche’s mom.

    so that mean ur saying im a woman.

    i don’t know why i keep using( !!! ), before i used to do this (…) is it that bad? No!

    so mind ur own businness!

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 03:18 PM

    that post is for adevandry


    jan I have always…

    liked the way that you post here!!!!

    It’s baseball haiku…….

    Coincidentally so is my above post.


    cal auto, if we can’t trade Pierre then we need to get him out of CF anyway we can. That is why I keep saying we need Hunter and we need to move one of the other 2 OFs to make room, so we need to trade Ethier and get a starter IMO.


    Pierre is not going anywhere next season, so I believe the Dodgers should hide him in left. They can play Kemp in CF, he’s got speed and a terrific arm and not a bad glove either, so. With Kemp and Ethier playing everyday and Loney everyday at 1B, you are probably looking at about 75 HR’s from the 3 of them, it’s a heck of a lot better than what we got this year from Gonzo and Nomar. Although those HR #’s are a gamble, they could be lower, they could be higher, but you still need a 30+ guy in the line up and the Dodgers don’t have that in house, yet.


    cal auto, so do I but if we dangle Ethier and say Furcal, LaRoche or somebody else at that talent level in trade talks, their is bound to be a team thats willing to part ways with a quality young starter.


    Matt Holliday,
    avg. 338

    33 hr.

    126 rbi.

    mix him in with all the young guys, and to think he is only 27. And from Sooner nation.


    I love Pierre, but it’s sure tough watching baserunners go from 1st to 3rd on routine singles up the middle all year. Other than that, he’s done what he’s supposed to do…60 SB, 190 hits, .292 BA.


    Dear Santa Claus;
    My name is kiper and I’ve been a good boy this year, although I know that we are in September but this year for X-Mas I have only 1 request, since my uncle Ned is losing his sight and doesn’t see things to good anymore and my Mom and Dad (Jamie and Frank) are very busy with their other jobs, can you please FIRE GRADY! Thanks Santa, you’re the best.



    PS..If there’s room in your sleigh, can you bring me an ARod doll.


    Other than that, [Pierre]’s done what he’s supposed to do…60 SB, 190 hits, .292 BA.

    Posted by: | September 19, 2007 03:33 PM

    That’s how Colletti sees it. Unfortunately, he has a huge blind spot for the sickly .331 OBP – in other words, Pierre bats into an out MORE THAN TWO-THIRDS OF THE TIME (66.9%). Terrible.


    kiper LOL I’d like to know what you’re drinking, or smoking. Maybe it would help cure my case of ‘Optical Rectumitis’ I seem to be having with Dodger management…


    Josh is probably mad at Plaschke, ouch. He’ll be alright, we here all support him and like him. Come on Josh, give us something to talk about today.


    hes not mad. remember what he said yestersday, that hes going to post the bulletins late bacause hes in la and not denver


    Let’s not forget that we’re going to be out of the playoffs this year and whose fault that is. so,



    Hey y’all. Yesterday ******. I’m bummed that LA won’t be in the playoffs (in all probability). But, as I recently took a job in downtown Denver, I’m getting off work and walking to Coors. You’ll see me in some relatively cheap seat, with my scorecard in hand, in khakis and a light blue shirt, Dodger hat worn proudly. So if you see a 26-year-old guy who looks a little too dressed up to be at Coors Field on the TV screen tonight, let me know about it.
    I’m just happy there’s a bit of baseball left. Even when the Dodgers let the season slip away, I’m way happier to be able to sit at the ballpark, in good weather, watching a team and a sport I love, than to be spending the offseason NOT watching baseball, indoors, in awful weather. Even though we’re all pretty bummed/ticked/whatever about the way this season is ending, let’s try to enjoy just being a spectator of one of the most logic-defying, fan-confounding sports ever invented for another week and a half.


    Go Dodgers!


    Pierre bats into an out MORE THAN TWO-THIRDS OF THE TIME

    with only 30 extra base hits.

    JP has made the playoffs one time in 8 seasons and that was on a very talented team.

    but he leads the NL in singles and he is so busy making outs that he is the toughest guy in the NL to strike out.


    I have a longer post in mind about next year’s roster, but have neither the time nor energy to think it through.

    I don’t want to splash too much cold water on people, because there are a lot of interesting ideas out there. But, however you feel, I think we are likely to see Ned and Grady both return next season, and as a result, I think that there are a number of predictions about the roster that are all but certain:

    1) Juan Pierre will be back, and in Center Field. Pierre has a 5 year deal, has not missed a game in years, and has never played a position other than CF. So deals where hs is dealt, moved to Left, or whatever might be interesting, but not realistic.

    2) Andy LaRoche is a Third Baseman, not a Second Baseman. The middle infield positions are difficult, and while Kent no longer has the range (and never had great range), he is still better than most converted third basemen. Could Andy convert? Maybe. I don’t know his abilities well enough, but given his already chronic back problems, it does not seem likely that he would move to a position that requires more athleticism.

    Someone mentioned that Loney and Ankiel are converted pitchers. True–sort of. Loney was a high school pitcher, and while he was very good, high school pitchers played elsewhere too. Once they turn pro, that changes. Ankiel took a couple of years to convert, and they just stuck him in the outfield. It’s not inconceivable that LaRoche could end up in the Outfield some day.

    3) If Jeff Kent wants to return, he will be the starting second baseman. I think he will come back, which ultimately is probably good for us.

    4) Furcall will be the starting shortstop. Some people have pushed Hu–he may be great, but he’s still young, and as long as Raffy has a year on his $13 Million per year contract, he’ll play. This year’s subpar performance will be chalked up to the ankle (probably correctly so).

    Looking at these basic facts, what are the changes you really want made? Kemp-Pierre-Ethier in the outfield is great. I could see trying to sign a big slugging left fielder, but I really don’t know any out there. The infield of Loney-Kent-Furcal-Nomar/LaRoche is pretty well set. The only change that you could see is if the Dodgers signed A-Rod (would McCourt lay out the money after Schmidt, someone asked? Yes. It’s just a question of how high they will go if A-Rod opts out).

    Now, thinking about the pieces that are fixed in that line-up, what changes would you actually want to see made? If Pierre, Furcal, and Kent are locked in (and probably Nomar too, if we do not come up with A-Rod), the only pieces that are “movable” in the eyes of management are Loney, Kemp, and Ethier. I assume that everyone here can agree that moving Kemp or Loney would be a disastarous mistake. And I don’t know that there is a left-fielder that is really so much superior to Ethier (certainly given the price) that it is worth it.

    The result is that I honestly think that the best thing we could hope for (absent an A-Rod signing, and people might be mixed on that) is that the management make no moves to the projected daily players. That’s what I am hoping and rooting for. I think we flirt with disaster otherwise. To be honest, our dwindling playoff hopes scare me the most not because we won’t win a World Series this year, but because it might inspire management to make a drastic move, and since the only line-up spots that are not virtaully locked in belong to Loney, Kemp, and Ethier, I don’t like any such scenario.

    There is an upside to all of this. That’s a pretty good projected line-up. Who would complain if you saw the following line-up everyday:










    Of course, the following line-up is far more realistic, but again if we saw it EVERYDAY (rather than the constant drama associated with each day’s post), you really could not complain, and would expect some good offense:










    (On days when Jeff Kent rests, Loney would hit third, Kemp would hit fourth, and everyone else would move up one, with Kent’s replacement that day–either Wilson Valdez or Tony Abreu [I guess Valdez, while they let Abreu play everyday in Vegas, and call him up if Kent goes on the shelf] would hit 8th.


    leekfink, I agree that your 2nd line up is more realistic and although it’s a line up that can win, there is still that gaping absence of a POWER HITTER. If you can imagine that line up with ARod in the 4 hole and then just move Kent, Loney, Martin and Ethier down.. although I don’t see Ethier as an eighth hitter for to long, maybe LaRoche/Nomar, if Arod comes along then i can see it…

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