Today's lineup

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Loney, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Martin, C

Nomar, 3B

Abreu SS,

Penny, P

517 Comments

The biggest UNDERachievers in baseball management 2007:

COLLETTI AND GRADY – FIRE THEM BOTH!!!

interesting line up

Gonzo is going to get upset. Too many kids.
Fire Colleti and Grady!

what the heck!
why can’t the kids play?

anyway! Go Penny!!!

Not enough kids…Nomar and Gonzo are still playing. Put Abreu at 3B, Hu at SS, and Ethier in LF.

I sure hope that Grady admits after the season the he was trying to break a record of most lineups used in one season. Kemp has been on the 8,7,3,5,6 and now 2 spot. May be can get him in the leadoff spot tomorrow?

But I suppose that makes too much sense once again.

Fire Grady Little!

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yesterday ********** E D ! ! !!

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Go Rockies!

Hey JOSH,
Man up we all know you made a mistake. We’ll forgive you. We still love this blog.

FIRE GRADY

FIRE NED

I just finished posting about next year’s line-up, and then I saw today’s.

Let me be clear–I’m not complaining about today’s line-up. But if you gave me 100 chances, I would never have guessed it. There are at least 3 other guys I would have guessed would hit second over Kemp (Martin, Abreu, and Loney). But, it certainly means more at bats for him.

It would be very interesting to see how many different line-ups Grady has employed in the 152 games we have played (counting today). It has to be a record.

I’m glad the Veteran gonzo is playing!!

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F R E E L I T T LE H U! I wanna see him play Short!!

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What purpose is there now for playing Gonzo at all the rest of the season or for that matter Nomar. Nomar will no doubt be back next year, and I would rather see him as healthy as possible. Is there any reason to take a chance on aggravating his injury now?

Definitely FIRE GRADY – AND COLLETTI TOO!!!

LaRoche at 3rd!!! we need to see how he handles the position! and he needs to see the pitchers from our division!!!

Well, I still support Grady and Ned and hope they are here for years to come.

After yesterday’s debacle though, this season is a loss. Time to start thinking about next season.

Go Dodgers in 2008 !

I’d put Abreu in the 2 hole, and shift everyone else down one.

Yes, scott – Go Dodgers in 2008, but I sure hope it’s without Colletti and Grady.

Grady will be a total IDIOT to the very end.

Thank God Pierre is playing.

He must be the most important player on the team based on games played and plate apperances.

We are out of it and Grady knows what the vets can do. Gonzo isn’t going to be back with the team next year so I don’t see why he’s starting? Can anyone tell me? I thought he would be giving all the kids a look because we are out of it. Kemp isn’t really your typical number 2 hitter…

FIRE NED!!!!!!!

This just in, FIRE NED!!!!!!

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I still think you ROCK JOSH, don’t sweat it!!

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You need to relax Diehardblu , why would he address you with the way you post. Stop rehashing old news. Im positive you wont see one more piece from Josh until the last game because of your ridiculous agression. You really need to settle down.

Yep, definitely. Fire everyone. Fire Ned–he signed players he thought knew how to run the bases. Fire Grady–he thought if you put veterans out there, they won’t make dumb plays. Fire Vin, too–he described the plays. He must be at fault.

Get a grip, people. The Dodgers we knew and loved didn’t get that way by being run by people who thought like Fox. We had continuity and tradition. We can have that again. I’m not happy with everything Ned and Grady did, but I also used to complain about Campanis and Lasorda.

On to another subject: Josh, hang in there. If Plaschke thinks you did something wrong, you clearly were in the right.

We are not out of it. we just need to win 10 straight and get some help by shooting over 3 teams. Come on Swood.

post?

Hahahaha… the joke is on us!! Grady Little has officially thrown in the towel, and if you don’t like it, he doesn’t care because it’s his team and he’ll be back to screw it up again next year. Hahahahaha, what a joke this has become, Grady Little is making a mockery of the tradition that is Dodger Baseball and Ned Colletti just sits back and enjoys, maybe he still has some Giant blood in him…..

I’m happy that Gonzo is getting these at bats when we know he won’t be back next year…that way he can hinder the progress of guys like Young who probably wouldn’t mind a few at bats after his 4-hit game. Wow.

Fire Grady Little!

Gonzo still thinks *he* can lead us the promised land….lol

I don’t think it’s gonna happen jungar, if anything at least it will be fun watching the kids, but I REALLY HOPE WE GET A POWER BAT FOR ’08, or else it’s just gonna be the same ‘ol stuff, a power bat can get us over the hump, I’m telling you bro!!

Fire Vin, too–he described the plays. He must be at fault.

That is just plain blasphemous green!

Last year the DBacks told Gonzo, over breakfast in early September, that they were not bringing him back this year, they told him he wasn’t in their plans anymore. After that the DBacks proceeded to start Carlos Quentin in LF for the remainder of the year. What a concept, I’m sure glad that the Dodgers have much more class than the DBacks. They signed Gonzo and they’re gonna play him, unreal.

Does anyone know where or how it’s possible to listen to the clip from Sunday night’s DodgerTalk? After hearing so much and reading Plachke’s column, I’d like to hear everything myself. Thanks.

GM: Logan White
Manager: Joe Girardi (or Kevin Kennedy, you pick)

Fire the BatBoy!!! LOL

leftttttttttttt

what if Young goes out and gets 4 hits and plays left field. Ever think about that? huh? huh?? lol

They are more worried about what that will tell them about 2007 more than what it would tell them about 2008.

We wouldn’t want to show anybody up. Same for Hu. Whoa young fella a HR in your first AB? We owe this SS 14 million next year. Back down.

2008:

GM: Swood

Manager: Dave Duncan

Lol.

old news? ok its on me that josh didn’t post.

See Josh, everything Plashke writes is bull. Especially the piece about how Grittle should return. Pure spin and baloney. Fire Grittle , Ned and Grittle ruined this team and any chance they had at success this year.

Maybe they are worried that our kids are going to grow up and be too good?

Fire the BatBoy!!!!

we need a new BatBoy and Swood ur Hire!!! LOL

Hey JOSH,
Man up we all know you made a mistake. We’ll forgive you. We still love this blog.

Posted by: diehardblu@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 04:12 PM

Diehard what are you talking about?

Swood for GM in ’08.

swood for batboy!!

Pierre has been our hottest hitter the last couple of months.. and you want to bench him..

Nomar and Gonzo have both gotten big hits lately and have helped us win games.. and you want to cast them aside…

LaRoche has been terrible when he has played.

Ethier seems to have hit the wall for the second straight year.. he has looked awful at the plate lately..

Hu?? You want to play Hu? The few times he has played short for us this month he has looked really skittish and not at all ready to play fulltime… I’d rather see Valdez or Abreu in the lineup right now than him.

It’s just nuts the rationale on this message board… The team *****, fire everyone!!!!

Thats crazy.. you can’t keep firing people every couple of years… that is no way to win anything.. the best teams… the ones that win… have more stability at the top.

You never know ,that Neddie might be thinking about bringing washed up Gonzo back next year. It wouldn’t shock me at all.

Swood read the last couple of days

Fire Alyssa Milano for her bad Dodger Stadium tour!

I say all the fans pull a Pirates on management and walk out during the 3rd inning cuz we’re so pissed off about the way this year has gone.

Swood for GM in ’08(a guarenteed world series title)

Dave Duncan for skipper.

Based on Ned’s and Grady’s track record, the Dodgers will re-sign Gonzo and possibly swing a deal for Sean Casey, that way Kemp, Ethier and Loney can get one more season under their belt of learning from a great veteran. Oh, and the same for LaRoche, he’ll learn behind Nomar and Shea. I also see that Odalis Perez is a free agent, just saying.

Diehard I did and I still don’t know what you’re talking about.

spanner

i see that u still think that we can go into the playoffs!

we don’t believe that until we see the dodgers into the playoffs!!!

right now, for us it’s all over!!! and we need to give the kids some playing!

jungar:Of all the posts above (at least while I’m writing this) you’re reply to swood was the only one I agreed with until I reread it and thought it must be sarcasm.In recent years, I don’t remember seeing any team that had playoff hopes on Labor Day playing Sept. call-up players until the team was mathematically eliminated.

your*

scurtis You’re right. Even though she is easy on the eyes, that tour blew bad.

I agree Kiper…it’s probably just better to throw Kemp and Loney back in AAA and re-sign Gonzo…plug Nomar back in at 1B.

spanner@aol.com | That’s right the teams that win do have stability in management, but they have the right people in place , not the wrong ones. We’ve all seen what Grittle is about, and doubt he will ever make this team a champion.

miketink I think jungar was being sarcastic…

Fire Grady and Hire Swood for ’08.

you don’t get Dodger talk or the LA times. Josh tried to muzzle the dodger talk host called his show an embarrasment because he was letting fans vent. Then Plaschke wrote an article about it today. Just thought he would address it. I like the blog didn’t mean to be hard on him. I’m just frustrated with the season.

spanner, your right about the stability. If this team remains stable, Grady and Ned, we should be back in the post season within 4 years and a World Series title will follow within another 2 or 3. ****, we’ve waited 21 years why not another 6 or 7 or 8. Stability is very important when you have good baseball management being the anchors, Jockety and LaRussa, Cashman and Torre, Epstein and Francona… Colletti and Little, no, I don’t think so.

van, you may want to throw in the towel and start a lineup with Hu, Young, LaRoche etc in it and a pitching rotation containing Stults and Houlton… but as long as we still have an outside chance we should try to win every game.

Id like to show her the Steve Garvey tour though!

van, you may want to throw in the towel and start a lineup with Hu, Young, LaRoche etc in it and a pitching rotation containing Stults and Houlton… but as long as we still have an outside chance we should try to win every game.

Ok diehard, now I think I understand.

It’s ok man we are all frustrated with how the season has gone.

spanner: Agree. 2 minor comments

Abreau or Martin should bat second Kemp ( power hitter ) 3rd or 5th with Kent in there..loney is fine 3rd .and I don’t have a nitendo game ,no baseball logic can explane all these lineup changes .

We are not out of it yet you are right but then were not out of 4th place in the NL West either.

Spanner the teams that are their every year with continuity have people in charge that know what they are doing…

Kieper, We would be in the playoffs this season if our pitching staff hasn’t been decimated by injuries.. The team we have coming back next year could easily get into the playoffs with the current management.

joan your using to much logic. Maybe Alex can come and defend grady’s line up.

This team doesn’t have good chemistry!

veterans trying to manipulate the talent of the Young guys!!!

is that an ingredient for a playoffs?? a big NO!!!

mathematically we still have a chance!!! Logically we don’t!

Well it looks like Raffy is out. Wonder he will return. I get scared when we don’t have that arm in the line-up. But I guess at this point it doesn’t really matter. I am hoping to see great things from the team in 2008. Maybe on the mark of celebrating 50years in LA they may get that WS that this team, and it’s fans so desperatley deserve.

Spanner the teams that are their every year with continuity have people in charge that know what they are doing…

Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | September 19, 2007 04:48 PM

Exactly, and Ned doesn’t know what the **** he’s doing.

agreed van.

spanner:Sorry I so angry at the growing mob that I’m making mistakes. My two comments: Pierre 15/31 against Fogg; Hu has only played ss for 4 innings in 2 games. He did make an error but I thought your post made it seem like he played more than that.

spanner, it’s to easy to blame this on the pitching staff. Look at the team ERA, it’s better than Colorado and Arizona. Grady Little’s refusal to bunt runners into scoring position, his refusal to pinch hit for a pitcher who’s down by 4 runs in a must win game, his pulling his ace from the mound with the lead and only 74 pitches thrown, I can go on but the game starts in 40 minutes. It’s not on the pitching staff, It’s on little game management situations that have cost the Dodgers a game here a game there, maybe 4 or 5 losses on Grady, it’s the difference between leading and being 5 back. Sorry I don’t buy into your, let’s give Grady a break mentality.

Hey Josh you are an idiot. Derrick Hall was a way better director of public relations, but unlike you he would not kiss Frank McCourts ***. I rather listen to Bob Harvey tell it like it is than to listen to the homer George Martinez kiss the dodgers ***.

Register now for the chance to buy tickets for all three rounds of the postseason. The Dodgers will conduct a random selection of winners from the pool of registrants for each playoff series.

Everyone sign up!!!

Swood, I’m sure he knows what he is doing. It’s easier to sit on here and say “we should have signed player x” .. ned is a ***** for signing player y instead…. but without knowing the details thats just stupid.. maybe player y would not have played as well here as he did wherever he signed… maybe those were the only options available? It’s not a fantasy league.

Kiper, maybe if you dont pull the ace at 74 pitches, he gives up a home run with his 75th and then you come on here and say “he should have pulled him at 74, hes an idiot”… maybe he bunts when you want him to and the guy pops the bunt up into a double play and you say “hes an idiot for bunting, he should know that guy cant bunt….” Isn’t it so much easier to complain after the fact??

83 HRs in this lineup O.K.____ Although we are not eliminated yet, this race is out of our hands. I will concentrate on individual acchievements and keeping an eye on mostly our young players like, Abreu, Young, Meloan, and others. Being on the east coast, I don’t get much of a chance to see these kids, until they are actually on the Dodgers. All I know is what I read about them. I’ve read a lot of great things about LaRoche but in two stints, except for walking a lot, he isn’t the same player I read about. I hope this changes soon. I know there is a lot of talk about fire this one & fire that one. All I want to say is unless you’re absolutely sure the one you hire can do a better job than the one you fire, What sence does it make? WIN DODGERS

Mets are down 2-1!! I hope they choke

I love this blog!

nevermind 2-2

I see it this way, spanner, Ned was an assistant GM for 10 years and Grady took the Boston Red Sox, the Boston Red Sox, to within 6 outs of the world series and he blew it. Now, a manager taking a storied team, like the Red Sox, to within 6 outs of a world series, gets fired and goes 3 years without a job offer. What does that tell you about management?

We are 4th in overall ERA in all of baseball.

Runs scored…we scored more runs than the Padrres and D-backs this year.

Roster Chemistry, Defense and Coaching….the depth of talent is there, we just didnt have anyone to carry us when we needed carrying.

kiper keep going dawg!!!

U2 Jungar!!

I’m sick of hearing on the radio that dodger fans don’t care. That we will show up anyway. Keep representing guys.

well..i’m glad to see Josh not giving us what he used to on this blog and just posting the lineup’s as is. No need for any insights or comments, especially with the select few who seem to be ungrateful about it.

After all, he get’s bashed to provide an explanation on the Dodger talk thing and his point of view on the situation. Then after he provides that explanation and it isn’t “good enough”, he get’s even more ridicule, and the some comments get downright personal and continuous after a prolong period of days.

If i were him, i wouldn’t be pleased about it and the continuous beating that he has to endure day after day. And quite frankly, i wouldn’t post anything but the bare minimum, which is, the lineup. I’m glad to see him taking a stand, if he is doing so. We’ve gotten spoiled into thinking that what he provides us, through him taking the time to read all the comments we make, and all the insightful tidbits he provides us is his “job”. I’m sure he has more important things to do in his position than take time out of his day to conjure up what he’s going to post here on a given day.

I think people have to realize that the Josh was running this blog to create a connection between the fans and the front office. The displeasures/comments/suggestions are being circulated around this blog through the fans and those who work for the Dodgers, and when the comments on this blog go to attack the messenger in Josh in a personal way, it just isn’t right.

I think people are so used to heavily trashing Grady and Ned (people that they’ve never met, or communicated with directly), and are so reckless with it, they tend to do the same thing to Josh, and that’s unfair. Josh has not done 1 thing to any of you that warrants any personal animosity towards him.

Same thing with Gonzo, but that’s a whole different situation. He’s a player, and as a public figure, he’s fair game to get criticized and bashed continuously. It’s just sometimes, i hate to read the comments about him because some make it so personal and the hatred is just spewing out with every post. I just can’t help but wonder, “what did Gonzo do to you?”. Did he cut you off on the freeway? Didn’t give you an autograph when you were a kid? Oh yah, that’s right, he signed the 9 million dollar contract to represent our dodger’s and when he get’s penciled into the lineup to play, he plays. Go figure.

And about the “complaining” that people like to harp on with Gonzo, the last time i checked, Loney wanted or hinted at a trade at the beginning of the season after being sent to AAA. But i guess that’s “okay”, since he deserved to be in the big leagues after batting .380 and therefore, that’s not complaining. Yeah, sure.

You could say the reason we are so far back right now is that Broxton and Saito have blown five games in the last couple of weeks.. should we fire them too?

spanner, I respect the fact that you’re a Ned and Grady fan, that’s fine, and it is easier to complain after the fact, but you don’t know me and I can tell you that when the Dodgers had runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs in the 4th inning and the 8 man hitting, I said, at that moment, “here comes the bunt” not after the fact, at that moment. I know a little bit about baseball, not as much as you, but a little bit and if he had bunted into a double play, hey your at least trying to win a game, but to have him swing and hit into a double play, well, you and Grady obviously know how that turns out…

Hu’s defense is OFF THE CHARTS. Only an utter, utter fool would let him rot on the bench.

how is hu’s offense anyways? Anyone know? I didn’t keep up with him and his minor league career. Will he need to adjust to big league pitching like Kemp had to? Or is he ready to swing like Loney and Martin was?

I watching the Red Sox game. A guy by the name of Clay Buchholz is pitching(and dominating not to mention his no-no), if we would’ve listen to Logan White he would be a Dodger.

That guy Logan White sure knows what he’s talkin about.

Hu packs a big punch in that small frame. His swing is similar to that of a lot of Asian hitters – a leg kick and some loft.

Does anyone know where or how it’s possible to listen to the clip from Sunday night’s DodgerTalk? After hearing so much and reading Plachke’s column, I’d like to hear everything myself. Thanks.

Posted by: thedesena@hotmail.com | September 19, 2007 04:28 PM

As we’ve said here, go toFWB’s website and go to Dodger Talk.

As for blaming our pitching injuries for the Doders demise, I believe it was the anemic 6 for 100 with runners in scoring position that sealed our fate in August. And that can be traced to a batting order that constantly changes and players not trusting in management/teammates to applaud a stinking bunt or moving a runner over. Just pathetic.

HU? i do know something about him!!!

he smashed the ball out of the park that Tomko throw at him!!! LOL

Sorry, KFWB’s website.

HU was the futures game MVP this year. Give hime a shot!!!Only one way to find out if he can hit Big League pitching and its not on the bench.

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I swear I wanna wipe the smirk out of Foggs game day pic!!

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Messagebear: Your top post is wrong imo (which is no surprise since all your posts are wrong and boring imo). Among the good teams, Detroit and the Mets are bigger underachievers than the Dodgers this year. I do admit the Mets can still do something about their situation in the playoffs. Among the other teams (in no particular order) Baltimore, Tampa Bay,Chicago White Sox,Texas,Florida,Pittsburgh,certainly Houston,Saint Louis,and maybe Atlanta,Oakland,and Minnesota are at least as big underachievers as the Dodgers.

I admit I go overboard, so last post…

I am frustrated not by not winning but how we went out and achieved it.

I mean you all have to admit, even you Spanner and Casino that we could have achieved 4th place without having spent 120 million in the last offseason on Pierre, Gonzo, Schmidt, Nomar and Wolf

The kids playing instead of them would be 1 year better, we would all be a little closer in knowing if they are “prospects” or “for real” and as fans we may have grown to like them more. Sure I guess there are fans who pay to see JP, Nomar and Gonzo..I just don’t happen to know any of them.

And most importantly, being able to go after a REAL CF and having more money to spend instead of giving it to Nomar/Schmidt next year without knowing if either can play a full season.

Interesting lineup. Not the greatest lineup, but it will do… for tonight, anyways.

http://mikesciosciastragicillness.com/

well Jungar, i don’t disagree with you there. Bottom line is that the Dodger’s as a team didn’t do too well this year after all the high expectations in spring training. If you want to pin it down on 1 person in management, or 1 player on the field, at the end of the day, it’s a team game, and the team struggled at various times of the year.

I want to pin it on the “management team”

casino

agree with u there! it is a team struggle that put them in this situation!

but we don’t really have a real team to begin with!!!

this team is Rookies Versus Veterans from the beginning!!!

whose fault is that? i guess we can say that the veterans are the one who keeps complaining!!!

it’s time for the Kids to Rock the Show!!!

Go DODGERS!!!

I was OK with Schmidt and NOT OK with Pierre at the time of the signings. Schmidt is a stud. No one knew he’d be dinged. As for Pierre…whatever, I preferred Repko in center. But my real beef was Gonzo (nothing against Gonzo)after Drew left because I thought we had FINALLY opened up spots for both Kemp and Ethier. I didn’t, and still don’t, see the need for Luis with two talented kids right there for the playing.

We’ve all seen the difference in Broxton over the last couple of weeks. The guy has worked alot. I’m wondering how much gas is left in the tank. It would be unjust to put the bulk of the blame on him. The offense just plain went to sleep in August. Maybe in the off season he could work on building up some endurance with a strength, and conditioning coach. Martin claimed it helped him out.

good for you diehard..

van, we do have a team.

We had vets who played below their average all year, and we have kids who are really good, but slumped at times during the season like the Vets have. Right now the kid’s (all of them) are playing out of their mind, and the vet’s are giving us a couple good games here and there (example: kent/nomar/gonzo good game’s.)

The problem is that we haven’t been consistent. When we were having our scoring drought in august, where we lost so much ground to the d-backs, our offense really stunk it up. Even with tomko and hendrickson pitching, we still could have won more games if we could have scored more than 3-4 runs.

Fogg has always been a LOUSY right-hand pitcher, yet Gonzo is 2-19 lifetime against him. Start Ethier who is 0-2, 2BB and see if he can mash the awful pitcher.

I like a speedy power guy with a high OBP in the #2 hole.

casino one question. You don’t think the inconsistent line ups had something to do with our inconsistent offense?

kahl..

i agree, i was okay with the scmidt signing as well. I knew he was injury prone, but he had a couple good years the past couple of years in SF, including last year, so i was hopeful he could provide us with that same type of performance this year. Of course, if i had known that he wouldn have to have surgery during the season, then that’s a whole different story.

Hopefully he’ll come back next year 100% and he provides us what we expected.

diehard..

of course it did, and that’s grady’s fault.

thank you…

FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY!!!
Hopefully Logan White will retain Josh, because he’s OK. I don’t really think that Josh has received that bad an attack on this blog, nor does he deserve one. As I said before, the only mistake was probably that he called the talk show host during the commercial to berate him, which only fanned the flames. He should have gone on the show and presented his case, and it probably would have been received quite fairly by the fans, just like his up front presentations are on this blog.

I’m going to go ahead and ask this question, so i’m going to ask and i hope it is not viewed as an attempt to cause a heated debate (which i hate about this blog) but because i am genuinely curious.

What makes Logan White qualified to be a General Manager in MLB? Does he have experience dealing with free agents/other general managers/agents, contracts negotiations and structure?

“He may lack the necessities..”

–AC

he headed up the draft selections of seven players who appeared in the Major Leagues for the Dodgers last season – Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton, Russell Martin, James Loney, Matt Kemp, and Delwyn Young. Along with his staff of amateur scouts, White’s history of success in the draft, helped lead to the Dodgers being named Baseball America’s 2006 Organization of the Year

White has had unparalleled success in his first five drafts for the Dodgers, as his June 2004 First-Year Player draft was rated by Baseball America as the best draft in the National League and second best in baseball. His 2003 draft was tabbed as the best in the Major Leagues by the publication and his 2002 Draft was rated as the fourth-best draft in baseball. The Dodgers were the only team to have their draft rated in the top five in each of those three seasons.

kahliforni: Are you serious? The team went 7-19 from July 17 to August 14. 4-9 in the July part,3-10 in the August part. They scored no runs in 4 games,1 run in 5 games,and 2 runs in 4 games (that’s 13 out of the 26) and you explain that by changing batting orders. If you truly believe you have explained that stretch which ruined the season then I have to throw your word back at you.Pathetic.

But can he play poker with Scott Boras?

diehard, so he is good at evaluating young players which makes him right for his current job. He has no experience at all with negotiating with agents and GMs or signing free agents, making trades, etc.

leekfink, why is putting Pierre in LF out of the question? Several centerfielders have converted to corner OFs. If you can play center, you can play anywhere, its not like shifting from first to short or anything. Its time for management to realize that Pierre is a defensive liability in CF, sure he has range but his arm costs us too much. We need a CFer and we need to bump Pierre into left.

Geez, miketink, ease up. You ever try to hit when you bat in a differnt part of the order day after day after day? So what’s your explanation, genius?

So your telling me evaluating talent has nothing to do with negotiating with agents and GMs or signing free agents, making trades, etc. I think that is the BIGGEST key evaluating talent

charris, I think the good Pierre has done with his base running more than makes up for any problems with his arm strength. We have had many games where he has gotten on, stolen bases and been left on third… and eveyone thinks he is the problem? Maybe the problem is the guys behind him havent been able to drive him in?

charris..i agree that it can be done. Look at Damon with the Yankee’s. He’s primarily playing LF when he’s not a DH.

JP!!!!

diehard, negotiating with agents takes a completely different skill set than evaluating talent.

why is putting Pierre in LF out of the question?
Posted by: charris1010321@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 05:35 PM

Because the defensive demands are lighter in LF you can hide poorer defensive players with big bats there, e.g., Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds. We need a real CF and a bat in LF and no Pierre.

You have to know what your getting not just blindly deal for players. I’m saying evaluating talent is something hardly anyone has and we have one the best. He’s a smart man he will hire assistants.

Nice Mondesi! I mean Kemp!

thats why we lose

spanner, I’m not saying to bench Pierre, I agree his speed creates a lot offensively but…do you have to keep him in center and say “oh well take that extra base because over the course of the season he’ll make up for it on the basepaths”. We need to play him in left and make him less of a liability defensively, that has nothing to do with the speed he brings offensively.

nice loney

fogey, the answer is getting Hunter he provides the power (more than most CFs) and off sets our lack there of if Pierre were in left. We can’t get rid of Pierre but we’re definitely not forced to play him in center.

Juan Pierre sports a sickly .331 OBP – in other words, Pierre bats into an out MORE THAN TWO-THIRDS OF THE TIME (66.9%). Terrible. He has offensive value when his OBP is .350 or better over the course of an entire season. This year, he only manages that when he’s “hot”.

Good Start Pierre & Loney

Loney has been Money lately!

diehardblu:Casinod probably knows all that you posted about L. White. None of it speaks to his question.He asked whether White can do all the other things a GM does. Now White must want to be a GM since he interviewed with Houston so he must think he can do the job.I am praying he doesn’t get it.

good job kent

Carry us to the promise land Gonzo!

i guess not

old fogey, Pierre’s second half numbers are considerably better than that.. his numbers were hurt by a bad start.. but since the all-star break he’s been at .360 and the last couple of months even better.

Also, almost every player makes outs 2/3rds of the time.. Almost no player has an OBP greater higher than 400.

pierre is a good ballplayer

Torii Hunter –
career:

.272 / .324 / .470 / 104 OPS+

2007: (a career year, along with 2002)

.291 / .336 / .520 / 124 OPS+

He will be 32 next season. I’d pass – we do NOT need more .330ish OBP guys. (You’d need Willie Mays’ offense in CF to offset Juan Pierre’s in LF)

Odd, Loney is put back into the 3 spot and he produces.

I don’t recall which poster argued about how much better Kemp was in the 3 hole, but he lost on the stats alone.

Grady is just an idiot.

Blonde, you like his decision to put Loney in the 3 spot and you still call him an idiot?

fogey, you are overlooking the fact that Hunter is one of the best defensive OFs in the game. His offense isn’t the answer but wouldn’t you agree that he is an upgrade over Ethier?

oh and Pierre is hardly the problem of this Dodger offense.

The lack of power has been one of the key problems.

Furcal has been a huge hole at the top of the lineup.

Also, I truly believe that the musical chairs lineups have negatively impacted the team as well. I’m starting to think that Grady feels as though he’s doing his job as a manager if he changes the lineup more often. Maybe he thinks that the match ups mean something more than consistency.

You ease up kahliforni (I don’t think I was rude to you btw)I have no explaination. I’m not a genius never said I was.All of a sudden the team can’t score then all of a sudden after 7-19 they can. It’s obviously more important than batting orders.
To be complete I do disagree btw.The responsibilities of the 3-7 hitters are not all that different so moving players around in those slots is not a negative imo.

Anyways, regarding putting Pierre in left… if you can bring in a better center fielder than that would be an option,.. right now if we keep the three guys we have now (Pierre, Kemp, Ethier) then JP being in center makes the most sense…

oh no, he’s smart today for putting Loney in the 3 spot today, Grady is an idiot for pulling him out of the 3 spot after he was lighting it up over the last few weeks.

spanner – which part of “over the course of an entire season” was unclear? You can’t cherry-pick the hot streaks, the bad comes with the good. This is JP’s third straight season with a bad OBP for a leadoff/2 guy. He’d be okay in the AL hitting 9th.

facking Penny.

Holiday is just stupid.

the batting order stayed fairly consistent the first half of the season… then certain guys started slumping and they had to move it around… I really don’t think the batting order has really been the problem.

Holiday’s been hitting everybody lately. you could bring Cy Young from the dead and he’d hit a couple homer’s off him.

wow, could Penny throw that more over the middle of the plate?

I’d rather have Hunter than Pierre, but definitely not both.

you dont want to bury your speed guys at the bottom of the order.. they cant steal bases if slow plodding #7 and 8 guys are on base ahead of them..

when does holliday contract end?

Holliday doesnt hit like that outside of coors.

what about the slow plodding 8 and 9 guys in front of the leadoff guy? At least group the weak-hitting speedy guy at 9 with the presumably reasonably fast, high OBP guys at leadoff and #2.

hollidays average
Home: .373 Road: .303

OK, miketink, we’ll both ease up. But more important than line-ups is what I said about trusting teammates. It’s NO SECRET the clubhouse is fractured and if it’s every man for himself, then each at bat becomes an uncalled-for pressure situation. Call it finger pointing, call it hate crimes (my favorite), call it trying to hit a five-run homer to prove your worthiness to icy teammates. So who’s to blame for a fractured clubhouse? No one? Everyone?

and who would you consider to be the “reasonably fast OBP” guys on the current roster that you want to put at the top of the order?

i would like to have crawford

oh and Pierre is hardly the problem of this Dodger offense.

The lack of power has been one of the key problems.

Furcal has been a huge hole at the top of the lineup.

Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 05:52 PM

Pierre: .331 OBP .353 SLG

Furcal: .333 OBP .355 SLG

Those are pretty darn close to equally-sized holes at the top of the lineup. (And Furcal does have 25 steals on that bum ankle.) You can’t claim Pierre is “hardly the problem” and Furcal is a “huge hole”.

kahliforni, i think the clubhouse problems are simply because we’ve been losing… winning fixes everything.. I really never give much credence to the “no body gets along” excuses..

I hope Penny loses today’s game. I can’t stand him.

Oh I do. ANY workplace becomes unbearable when people don’t get along.

furcal has cost us games with his defense

Fogey, slugging percentage is irrelevant in leadoff hitters.. why even post that? Pierre has been on base a lot this season. He is leading the team (by a significant margin) in hits and runs and his 59 stolen bases are terrific. The problem has been the #3 and 4 guys not picking up the RBIS.

And don’t forget, the Dodgers had the best record in the National League this summer. So losing wasn’t the problem.

60 sb

spanner: How about a healthy Furcal and then Russell Martin (.376)? Ned didn’t provide the right guys – he bet that Pierre would magically revert to peak year form instead of believing that the last two bad years (now three) were evidence of actual decline.

Fogey, Pierre is not the problem. The main problem is our cleanup hitter has only 20 homers and 78 rbi.. thats terrible for cleanup.. we need a more reliable RBI guy in the 4 spot. That is a much bigger problem.

loney needs to catch that

Anybody else think that the Rockies are caked with juicers?

YAY 2-1!

Can’t remember the last time Penny pitched well..

Yes the season numbers are similar for Furcal and Pierre, but take a look a August and September. Pierre’s splits have been improving.

And after the Loney error, Penny melts down, sulks and gives up a jack. I love it. I hate that mental midget.

lol

spanner: to show how equal(ly bad) Furcal AND Pierre are. And it does matter – if your leadoff hitter doubles a lot, he gets caught stealing less.

And Pierre HAS NOT been “on base a lot this season” – the entire NL (including the pitchers) has a .333 OBP – JP gets on base BELOW the league overall. A .331 OBP is definitely NOT on base a lot. You are drinking Ned Colletti’s kool-aid on that line.

penny and broxton have been struggeling lately

Yes the season numbers are similar for Furcal and Pierre, but take a look a August and September. Pierre’s splits have been improving.

Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 06:12 PM

Boy, then he must have REALLY ****** before that. How much did having that black hole at the top of the lineup cost?

I hate baseball!

Grady should pull Penny, he’s sulking now after the error. He’s going to get lit up.

And if anyone is curious, I can’t stand Penny ever since he threw that huge trantrum in Arizona when he was pulled after he gave up 6 straight hits and was about to give up the game when he was yanked before getting a decision. He acted like the biggest baby and it just kind of showed me the kind of player he truly is.

I suspect he’ll do pretty well in his contract season. He strikes me as one of those individual stat type guys.

fogey, take away his awfull first month and his numbers are better than that… have you even been watching the games? He’s been about the only one on our team getting on these days it seems.

nice play

Again, the lack of punch from the cleanup spot is a much bigger problem that doesnt seem to bother you as much.

jesus blonde… get off of penny’s case. You don’t like our best pitcher?

kahliforni, how do you know the couple of stories about the Dodgers are correct? I would say you believe them because it fits your preconceived notions. I have seen 2 articles saying just the opposite, one written by a reporter who was outraged by one of the critical articles. I don’t believe the stories you sre referring to when you talk about “the problem”

Can’t remember the last time Penny pitched well..

Posted by: spanner@aol.com | September 19, 2007 06:12 PM

How about the start before last, in SF on Sunday the 9th, 7 IP 2 ER on only 82 pitches before Grady pulled him prematurely and we grew to really intensively dislike Ray Durham?

If we had a rotation full of 5 Brad Pennys, we’d be in the play-offs.

Seriously, Penny is our best pitcher. You guys need to understand that and lay-off.

Nice wallup by Penny

ERA under 3.00 for Brad Penny this year. That’s great stuff right there. In a non-contract year.

Penny is our best hitter too! lol

Why is Pierre bunting Penny to third? its Coor’s Field. One run means nothing.

spanner – you mean his awful first half, which you can’t take away.

It’s hard for the 4 guy to get a lot of RBIs when the 1, 2 and 3 (Nomar for far too long) guys have OBPs of .331, .333 and .326.

…not like it matters. LOL scrutis.

If Pierre from the 2nd half is the Pierre we always get, I can live with that.

we were in first place in the first half of the season.. In the second half, where Pierre has been on fire, the problem has been not hitting with runners in scoring position.. that falls on the 3,4,5 guys.

A. Martinez said on Dodger Talk Monday between games that an “un-named” veteran was incensed in the dugout after the game with LaRoche starting. That sound like a happy family, everyone pulling in the same direction?

fogey, yes I was hating on Pierre at the start of the season, but again, the difference is, he turned it around and wasn’t the problem when the team was taking a dump in August.

What I find funny about so many posts, is that there are so many that say the difference in the season was not having Bills in the rotation and Loney to start the season, but this team had the best NL record in late July with 13 games over .500. Sure there were probably a handful of games 2 or 3, maybe 4 where there would have been a difference at the start of the season.

Tomko actually didn’t **** too bad to start the season. He got some hard luck losses with no offense (yes maybe Loney would have made a difference in those games). Bills also had 4 wins coming out of the bullpen during that stretch, so it’s possible one of the other BP slugs that Colletti brought in might have done much worse in his place.

Again, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that this team tanked in late July and August and ultimately cost themselves the playoffs.

This team has not been able to put together a streak of wins better than 4 or 5 all season, and I believe some of that has to do with inconsistency in lineups.

I just hope there is no double play now.

Amen, dodgerdude17, amen. Hate the bunt there – this is where Pierre’s reasonable batting average could be useful.

yes, I don’t like our best pitcher. I don’t like his attitude. He could be an even better pitcher with a better attitude.

GO DODGERS!!! 2-2

I dont like your attitude blonde!

Penny is the man!

I actualy think Lowe is our best pitcher.

Nice going guys WE SCORE

You what other pitchers have “bad attitudes”… Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Jake Peavy, Bob Gibson,… you want me to go on?

Lowe is our most consistent, but Penny is our best. ERA under 3!

James Loney is the man.

Penny is NOT the man. He is a pitcher with some excellent and Ace talent, but he’s a complete mental midget.

Bills is our best pitcher. Lowe is not.

I’ve noticed now that the Vets aren’t getting it done now.

Penny, Lowe…Lowe, Penny…they’re both winners. How would you like to pitch for this punchless, gloveless ballclub?

Kahliforni: I was incensed as well and surprised the haters didn’t comment but maybe they only hate the older players and their so-called idiot Grady. La Roche struck out three times in three ABs on 12 pitches. He is 3 for 19 in Sept. with 10(more than half his ABs) Ks. What did he do to deserve a start in an important game.I don’t think being mad in Sept. about that proves your point.

dodgerdude, sure, they have bad attitudes, but they don’t normally let those attitudes mess up their game.

Brad does let his attitude mess up his game. Those guys you listed a mentally tough. Penny isn’t mentally tough. He could easily be a 20 game winner, but his mental softness keeps him back.

Matt Holliday needs one high and tight!

Taking it to a radio report does…keep it behind closed doors.

I can’t believe the Mets is that scoreboard correct? My daughter must be beside herself.

There is Penny giving up another home run. He’s probably still upset about Loney’s error.

Bills will be our best pitcher, Lowe is most consistent, and Penny is our best now. I agree, Penny does have an anger problem, but he’s a **** of a pitcher. He hasn’t really exploded this year, and he’s has a better year than last year. He said before the year that he was working on the anger issues, and I think he’s done well. You should be patting this guy on the back if anything. He’s done what you want him to do, control himself more, and he’s done better for it… again ERA under 3!… well maybe not anymore thanks to that freak Holiday.

Throwing records out the window, looking at the stats Chap Billingsley is our best pitcher.

On a side note Matt Holliday for MVP, that guy is on fire.

Good to see the Vets not getting it done tonight LOL

Holliday is just ridiculous.

Let them hit their HRs We play our little ball.

The first person on this blog that can convince the rest of us as to why this team faltered gets my vote as the next GM!

Thats should read Chad obviously.

Bills needs to lower his pitch count and start hitting 7 innings or more in most of his starts. He will be Cy Young candidate each year if he can do that!

Mentally soft? no thats not what it is. He did win 2 games in the World Series against the Yanks if u didn’t know or just forgot.

Well all three of those guys (lowe, penny, bills) are darn good.. Unfortunately the other two spots have been a revolving door of bad starts. I really don’t expect schmidt to return to form next season…

GIDP – nice pitching.

I don’t know why you’re nit-picking about our best pitcher. If not best, then one of our top 3.

Josh Fogg is a worthless piece of **** that we can’t hit!

OH the “H” on Wash it looked like Wash 13 Nym 8

I guess everything is O.K. over there

Dodgers are hitting .400 against Fogg in this game so far, with Nomar’s double.

Boy this MLBTV I can’t get back my full screen. ain’t that nuts?

Tonight we need to hit about 750 against him

f u penny and your fastballs down broadway

Conversely, with the Fogg K, Rockies are hitting .438 against Penny in this game!

Penny looks like he’s just going through the motions.

someone need to tell penny that a fastball in someone’s earhole is okay to do.

Ugh. Penny building a picket fence. 1 1 1 1 through four.

This is definitely not the good Penny.

California. I agree. Holliday or someone needs decked!

not a penny fan either pierre?

Juan Freaking Pierre making things happen!

Ah, see, some Slg% from the leadoff guy is a good thing!

Penny needs to man up!!!!

Third time through for Fogg; time to rake.

You guys remember when the Rockies first came into the league, they went at it a couple of times against the dodgers.

Piazza hit some monster shots in the early days of Coors Field.

I dont remember those? Who were the fights?

run producing out, but crud, this is Coors Field boys, time to break out the whupping sticks.

Karros and Piazza owned Coors Field.

Loney is the MAN! But you have to notice that Pierre seems to do better when he’s in his natural leadoff spot.

I hate Gonzo.

You guys remember Daryl Strawberry, he was in the middle of those.

PIERRE bashes aside, the rest of us have quite a talent to watch over the next few years.

Gonzo now 2-22 career against the crummy pitcher Fogg.

If Pierre suddenly becomes a .350+ OBP guy, I will be happy about that. I am looking forward to seeing a lot more of Kemp, Loney, Billingsley, et al.

The Straw!!!!

I think Andre just punched Grady in the gut.

It’s about time Holliday made an out!!!

charris1010321–about Pierre in left field. I’m really not offering an opinion about whether Pierre SHOULD play in CF or LF, or anywhere. I am just putting out what I honestly consider are immovable realities. One of those is that Grady will be the manager, and one of those is that Grady will not move Pierre to left field. There may be an outcry for Grady’s head right now, but ask yourself if you honestly think that will happen. And, given that, ask yourself if Grady will move a guy he has put in centerfield every day this year, and has never played any other position in major league baseball.

I admit, I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am this time.

Now–SHOULD Pierre play in left field??? I don’t think Pierre is really well-suited to be a corner outfielder. You should expect much better production from a corner outfielder. What makes Pierre special is his speed, and that is what makes him useful as a centerfielder. That speed is not nearly as important in a left fielder.

That being said, if you have an outfield of Kemp, Ethier, and Pierre, is Pierre or Kemp a better option in CF? There is a good argument for Kemp, espescially next season with more seasoning, and certainly left field is the place to hide a weak arm. But I just don’t consider this possibility as having any likelihood, and if we’re going to engage ideals/fantasies, why not have Ethier, Kemp and Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter as our outfield? Or Ethier, Kemp and Matt Holliday?

I could be wrong about what I consider the “realities.” But, do you really think my assumptions about what WILL happen (as opposed to what SHOULD happen) are wrong?

Hey, Penny kept Holliday in the yard!

Brad finally has a 1-2-3 inning…..

1, 2, 3. Where did that come from? ;)

Gonzo, go away and retire, for the good of all MLB players.

maybe Penny was mentally tough in the world series against the Yankees, but he’s been mentally soft for the Dodgers.

I remember alot of the bad blood between the Dodgers and the Rockies was caused by that jerk Andres Galaragga. I seem to recall him taking out Eric Young at some point. There was a guy that deserved a fastball in his ear. On the list of baseball players I have hated over the years, it has been Joe Morgan, Jack Clark, Barry Bonds, Reggie Jackson (vicariously, really, as I was not around to see him kill the Dodgers myself), and Galaragga. And at least the other guys were talented. Galaragga was a pure Coors Field hack.

Oh yeah he charged Dreifort one year!

PINCH HITTER!!! Pinch hit for Penny Grady!… not that is matters right?

I remember Antonio Osuna hitting Andres right in the noggin, broke is helmet.

it*

pinch hitter, yeah right, we are talking about Grady.

Gee whiz, I’ve seen this move before. Why aren’t we hitting for Penny?

Penny hits better than 0 furcal.

now that’s a hook, no talking, just give me the **** ball kid, you were horrible today.

Great going PENNY with the bases loaded to tie it up Let’s hope we get at least another hit this could be our last chance.

I can’t believe this is happening AGAIN.

Wasn’t pretty, but we’ll take it.

griffey just got hurt!

Lucky.

Hey! Andres is a cool guy… lol

Sure hope JP can muster up another triple!

come on Kemp!!!!!!

Bases loaded no outs always = 1 run for the Dodgers, if not zero.

God, Kemp is such a chump with RISP.

Also, *** is he swinging at any first pitch with the bases loaded?

If we win tonight and the padres and d-backs lose are we still in the playoff hunt.!!!!lol

At a way to go KEMP that’s it just tap it, nice going that scores another run.

lol calif, let’s hope that doesn’t happen. I’ve already given up on this team.

Jeff Kunt… haha Vinny just called him Jeff Kunt.

I think Loney is the best 3 hitter we have.

Can’t believe Hurdle let the LHP pitch to Kemp – it’s Sept., doesn’t he have like a million arms in the pen? LaRussa used 11 pitchers last night!

Matt Kemp this year is batting .348 with RISP blondecaboy.

More wasted opportunities…

Why do you hate on our best players?

Kind of a big inning but 2 runs are better than NONE.

That Kunt just missed a Grand Slam!

I can’t believe Hurdle didn’t replace the LOOGY for either Kemp or Kent and got away with it, more or less – minimal damage.

dodgerdude17: You know, some people like to spew without knowing the actual facts. Thanks for providing the real truth. .348.

Penny will just give that one run back.

And what is the deal with first pitch swinging with bases loaded. Stupid Kent saw two whole pitches and neither of them were very good.

oops sorry, Kemp is 0 for 7 with bases loaded.

The whole team with the bags full:
.209 / .269 / .291

It’s like a contagious disease.

i think the whole team is 0 for 7 with the bases loaded lol.

I bet Proctor comes in again! lol

you beat me to it oldfogey.

I don’t dislike Kemp. But his plate discipline is garbage.

My issue with his most recent at bat was swinging at the first pitch with bases loaded. The first two pitches they tossed up to him were no where near the strike zone.

He doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes, where as Loney knows much more plate discipline.

Nope, Penny gets the ground outs, no runs score. Thanks for the free out, Hurdle. Way to play for one run in your hitters’ paradise.

Just when I was thinking Penny was just about done for, he comes back with 2 scoreless innings…..
Go figure.

That was a very good inning for PENNY and also to shut them down, right after we pulled ahead. NOW for that inning #7.

you know the best way to learn from those mistakes would be? to play everyday.

Gonzo with a hit OMG.

but now your rooting against Penny???

Penny will just give that one run back.

And what is the deal with first pitch swinging with bases loaded. Stupid Kent saw two whole pitches and neither of them were very good.

Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 07:33 PM

Even it’s been a tough season to swallow, the one good thing about Dodger baseball is Vin Scully, now he’s the man.

be patient with Kemp will ya. and lay off Penny.

blondecaboy – Matt Kemp is still only 22 years old, very young. He is still learning to bat (!); the discipline will come; in the meantime, enjoy the raw talent that is producing these numbers this year:
.341 / .376 / .533

I agree Dodger dude, but Grady and his team just don’t instill these types of basics into the players. It’s still BS with guys like Nomar and Kent free swinging like they do, but they have proven themselves to a certain level.

Grady needs to step on guys like Kemp. I don’t care if he has to walk up to him while he’s at the plate and knock him in the helmet to remind him.

Grady is a manager, not a coach. If you want to get on someone for that, you gotta get on Bill Mueller.

Get on Grady for ever taking this guy out of the lineup.

I don’t hide the fact that I don’t like Brad Penny. There is just something about his attitude that I don’t like.

I loved Sheff’s attitude!

and yes Grady is also a coach. You’re telling me that Grady can’t say a word about it?

Grady has let it be known that he advocates extremely aggressive offense.

Ah, Grady correctly hitting for Penny here – gotta go for the throat now.

well yea, Grady can intersect whenever he wants. I just don’t here of many managers that are that hands on.

Do you dislike Penny to the extent that you’d root against him?

Nothing doing.

come on guys, you know they’re going to lose this game tonight. It’s for the best. If they finish 4th in the division, McCourt can’t ignore the possibility of firing Grady and or Colletti.

at this point in the season when the team is done, yes I’ll root against Penny. I would hate to see him pad his stats.

At least I know how you think now… you let your personal perceptions of a guy greatly influence how good you think he is.

But it doesn’t work. 5 runs and 14 hits is not making the most of your opportunities. A one-run lead in Coors Field is not the most stable of things.

also, if Grady were truly small ball, with 1st and 2nd and no outs, he would have sacrificed the runners over. But that’s just my own opinion. I don’t like the moneyball philosophy much.

Wow Proctor again! lol

Would you go so far as to want to get Penny off this team even if whoever replaced him was only half as good?

Moneyball is king! well not so much moneyball, sabrematrics instead. OBP, SLG, K/9, GO/FO, love that stuff!

no, I think he’s good. I don’t like him. I think Barry Bonds is good, but I don’t like him.

You see, I personally think guys like Penny and their attitudes can kill a clubhouse. I’ll put money on it, that it wouldn’t be beyond his personality to berate Loney for missing that foul ball. I’ve seen him glare at his own teammates. He just doesn’t strike me as a team player. Perhaps he’s a competitor and all but it just feels like he’s in it for himself.

Grady: If the great Joe Torre thinks it’s okay to use Proctor everyday, well, dadgumit, I will too!

Moneyball stinks!!! Oakland = 0 World Series with Moneyball

Way to drill Holliday!!!

It’s about time they hit him!

blondecaboy69, what do you think Moneyball is?

actually, I wished they had traded Penny and Lowe at the trade deadline. They could have easily raped another ball club desperate for pitching. The only danger in that, is that I don’t believe Colletti is shrewd enough to **** another club.

Good going PROCTOR except for HB. Let’s hope beimel can keep up his good work.

Dodgerdude–you’re right that Mueller (and Eddie Murray before him) is responsible for teaching our hitters plate discipline. But it still flows from the Manager. He has to make the point that plate discipline is important to him, and if the hitting coach doesn’t agree, he’s got to let him go.

I am not certain what the status is, but in the O’Malley days, and pretty much even under Fox, the Manager picked his coaching staff. Tommy Lasorda mentioned that when he named Glen Hoffman the interim manager in 1998, and since Jim Tracy took John Shelby and Jim Colburn with him to Pittsburgh, I assume that he had picked those guys too.

I’ve said this for a while–the fundamentals are the Dodgers biggest problem, and the area where the coaching staff and manager most need to focus. If you look at the Angels, the entire organization–from the minor league instructors to the major league coaching staff–knows exactly what Mike Scioscia’s priorities are, and they have to focus on that. Scioscia did not just make that up–he got it from the days when he was a Dodger. It’s exactly the way that the Dodgers used to play the game–in fact, there used to be a book that everyone in the organization had about how to play “the Dodger Way” (and there was a kids book that Al Campanis wrote based on this, called “Play Ball with Roger the Dodger”).

So, it is Mueller’s job, but it all flows from the manager.

Moneyball stinks!!! Oakland = 0 World Series with Moneyball

Way to drill Holliday!!!

Posted by: scurtis1999@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 07:59 PM

its hard to win with a 50 million dollar payroll… but they’ve won more playoff series then we have with our bloated payrolls.

On the other hand, a badly underfunded Oakland team has made the playoffs 5 times in the 2000s and won 100 games twice.

A lot better than the Dodgers have been doing.

O.K. BEIMEL

The OG moneyball guy was Branch Rickey… he loved OBP. That’s part of why he liked Jackie Robinson.

well Moneyball is a little complex, but it’s basically finding undervalued stats versus traditional stats (BA, etc).

The part of Moneyball that I have issue with is it’s anti sacrifice / productive out / stolen base philosophy.

Blonde… not to say this in a condescending way, but im losing respect for your opinions. You just said you wished we should have traded arguably our 2 best starters?

What we need now is a big inning. Maybe show some power.

yea… I’ve changed a little about my thinking about sacs and Sbs. If its runners on 2nd and 1st with no outs, i think it’s worth moving them over… unless its a big hitter at the plate of course. SBs are good in certain situations and over a certain success percentage, like 75% or so.

Ignore him, Dodgerdude

wow, Bahstahn fans must want to kill Lugo right now (the whole season really…) but anyways he dogged it to 1st instead of beating out a grounder and ended a rally, BoSox go on to lose.

KEMP beat that throw, and I like to see him run.

Broxt time!

No, pierreseastmeetswest, I think this is a good convo, it’s still civil, and I don’t think it’s gonna get sour.

dodgerdude, don’t really need my opinions respected.

At some point in time, you can leverage your valuable players and sell high. I just really hadn’t felt this team had what it took to go deep into the post season. So sell high on Penny and Lowe.

Penny was 4.91 in July (managed 3 wins from offense) and 4.00 in August (1-2).

Lowe was 5.33 in July (0-2) 4.07 in August (3-2).

Bills was 3.22 in July (3-1) and 3.19 in August (2-3).

Now the Wins and Losses aren’t a measure of the pitchers success, but those ERA’s give sort of a glimpse of what has happened to our “best” starters in the middle of the season.

My thought is just to sell high. The perceived “goodness” of these two pitchers is a little skewed.

Helton pulled his foot and Kemp beat that throw.

Hey guys!

Pads and Snakes are losing

LOL

situational hitting just seems so under rated with Grady. It’s probable that Nomar doesn’t know how to bunt, but it would have been completely unexpected. They were playing him at DP depth, who knows when you might force and error.

Catch the ball Abreu!

Yes, that’s a reasonable summary definition of Moneyball.

Given that even a good teams makes outs 65% when they are trying not to, giving them away for free (sacrifice, productive out, caught stealing) is a high price to pay. There is a time and a place for everying, and sometime the bunt or the steal attempt is the right play, or having JP steal when he’s success, but stats show that giving up outs also keeps you out of more big innings. Early in the game, you shouldn’t limit your chances for big innings. In the late, late innings, playing for one run can be very smart.

LOL, wow, Broxton just needs to be shut down for the season.

Wow.

Man,… you gotta feel badly for Brox.

Oh Noooooooo! Not again!

WHATEVER IT WAS THAT BROXTON HAD HE DOESN’T HAVE ANYMORE if he don’t get it back we are in trouble and I’m not talking about this year.

come on guys, it’s just the way it’s been going for the Dodgers this season.

Broxton has been over worked, he’ll be fine, but Grady’s use of him all season has just been unacceptable.

Maybe he needs to see a sport shrink or something……..

I guess Brox is the only guy who is allowed to pitch the 8th. He has been struggling for 2 weeks now and Grady continues to go to him. Gump you are an idiot.

about the selling high thing… its a good concept, but who would you replace these pitchers with? I don’t want to pay over $100 million for a guy like Zito. Trading your best pitchers just isn’t good policy. They’re still reasonably priced too.

haha thats beautiful lol

rockies are going to the playoffs lol

:]

he needs to learn another pitch

That’s it for me…Grady just can’t manage. Proctor three straight games, Broxton obviously overworked, and fully-rested others watch this happen. Enough is enough!!!

Ughh. What can you do? His speed is still great, but his location is failing him. I think you have to keep running him out there though. His confidence has to be hurting enough as it is–the message to him should be that we still believe in him. (Although, Honeycutt really needs to find out if he’s just too tired, because he may have just been worn down by the year.)

Broxton just doesn’t have the same movement… he’s tired. Hopefully it doesn’t get into his head for the rest of his career though.

fogey, that might be true of some teams, but the Dodgers have to scratch and claw for every run they can get. They need to get creative at times.

I honestly can’t remember the last time that Grady called for a run and hit or hit and run. It’s pretty much station to station with that fool.

Now it might have been nice to have gotten an extra 1 run with 1st and 2nd and no outs. Abreu may have struck out anyways, but you never know.

rockies take too many curtain calls
Gump is Gump. What do you expect.

He has a splitter too but barely uses it.

Wow, that could give a guy the Niedenfuer complex. He never did recover his career from that Clark HR. I think that Brox is more resilient than that, but he’ll have to learn that he can’t throw it at a high enough speed to get it past a good major leaguer.

dodgerdude, it would depend upon the deal. I’m just saying Penny would grab quite a bit of ML young talent.

Broxton looks so dejected.

blonde… again i disagree… Grady calls hit and runs with Gonzo at first way too many times this year. Grady is all mixed up.

fogey, that might be true of some teams, but the Dodgers have to scratch and claw for every run they can get. They need to get creative at times.

Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 08:25 PM

A team that can afford and has a $100 million plus payroll should not be in that position. (Playing Kemp and Loney every day would help.)

**** it, the Phillies lost. I really want them to catch the Padres.

Last chance.

Lasorda wore out Niedenfuer even worse than Grady has to Broxton.

Hanging slider. I know he’s the winning run, but you have to kind of pitch around Hawpe there – he can kill you, but you might get him fishing. After that, Torrealba and Quintanilla, on-deck and in the hole, are not exactly ARod and Vlad, and the Rockies doesn’t have scary hitters left.

I don’t think I PR for one of my best hitters when he is only the tying run on the road.

I think Grady sets up certain situations for failure and then never goes back to those plays when he should.

In your example, hitting and running with Gonzo is just stupid, but hitting and running with Kemp or Martin would be better.

I agree, a team with a $100 million payroll should be able to go out and get some big hitters.

The problem is that they don’t go out and get first time free agents approaching or in the prime of their careers. They pick up second / third time around twilight free agents.

Even Arod would possibly fit into that category next season.

I defy any of you to provide any objective evidence that Broxton has been overworked.
It’s always the easy answer with so many of you. It always Grady is an idiot.

well that’s quite depressing. Sure glad I gave up on this club in August.

What a joke. Post game quoate from Grittle. “Well we have to run the table now, no joking around anymore”

The bad part here is the Dodgers can’t win witout a bullpen. At least until the gain the ability to score runs.

Thats 4 straight!!!

i hope it gets to 13 straight

Well, I have to admire the Rockies under the circumstances. They’ve played this series like I wish we could have done. They’ve even looked like they might belong in the playoffs. If the Giants or the Pads had done this to us, I would really hate them, but the Rockies have deserved it.

Still: FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY

Kent, Gonzo, & Nomar leave 11 runners on base with no RBIs…

Way to Go Vets…

Please do not let Gonzo and Nomar play anymore this season. And get Hu in there at SS to show what he can do. What’s to lose now?

MikiTink:

Two words: Occam’s razor

so does Grady do the right thing now and play the young guys to give them some experience, or do they waste away on the bench?

I bet he shows the vets the respect their due (even though it’s truly due from other clubs not the Dodgers), and plays them the rest of the season.

I’m starting to feel like a Cub fan…….

by the way, if anyone cares, I’m DGD from ESPN.

I meant MikeTink

Why’s everybody so bent out of shape? The season ended yesterday, this is merely exhibition. Let the kids play, bench the vets, close Broxton, Penny and after tomorrow Lowe down. Play Arizona like it matters and then whatever who cares just let the kids play.

So much for an attempt for a split.

miketink: This was Broxton’s 80th game, out of 152 for the Dodgers. That is a pace for 85 appearances. That has been topped only 22 times. Ever. That might be a bit much to ask from Broxton to not be fatigued.

Even if you don’t lose speed on your fastball, fatigue can cause you to lose the bite on your breaking stuff. Broxton has hung a few lately.

broxton is done for this season. i don’t know why people keep saying his velocity is fine. it seems he’s getting his fastball in at around 92-93 mostly, with only a very few getting a little above that. earlier in the year, everything was above 95. if i was grady, i’d shut this guy down for the season, if anything so that he doesn’t implode mentally.

also, i agree with everyone who could not believe grady had kemp batting second. that is probably the worst spot in the lineup for him. what happened to putting in Martin at that spot? it worked earlier in the year.

Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 08:32 PM

I generally agree with that post. The Dodgers spend too much money on the wrong players. Do you want to spend $30 million+ on Pierre, Gonzo, Nomar and Tomko or on two really good players?

Miketink: Normally I agree with you, and respect your posts, but I’m fed up with Grady’s handling of in-game strategy. Broxton has obviously been struggling for at least a week now, and Grady hasn’t helped his confidence by continuing to throw him to the wolves, which, in my opinion, is nothing more than overworking him.
Grady’s mistakes admittedly are much more glaring when we lose, but we are losing and, unfortunately for us, Grady looks more and more to be the root of the problem. If he really said, “We have to run the table”, someone should tell him that the table has been cleared and he should grab a towel and do the dishes. Maybe he can handle that.

Old Fogey/Khola:

Could not agree with you more.

just wondering about a possible grady replacement (i can dream, right?). how about this one, mickey hatcher. he’d provide a heck of a lot of fire and aggressiveness that this team seems to lack. thoughts?

if not mickey, how about kirk? we couldn’t get any more fiery than him. maybe he can hire jesse as his pitching coach.

Why would Grady bat Russ in the 2 hole, that lineup card is burried in the 140 various lineups he has and he hadn’t put Kemp there so he thought it might be a nice change for game 152.

BTW, all you Kennedy lovers out there he just made it very clear…”Down the stretch you play your vets. Nomar, Kent, Gonzo, there is no reason to rest them. That’s why you signed them, keep them in there against all comers. They need every at bat, the presence of them in the lineup means everything right now especially against the teams you need to catch.”

You can tell that K Kennedy Hates Grady just as much as most of us on this blog….
Very telling …

There is a reason Kevin Kennedy hasn’t managed in OVER A DECADE. He isn’t very good at it, and lots of GMs must think so.

Khola88: Mickey Hatcher is a great guy and an excellent hitting coach with zero managing experience at any level. If you want someone with Dodger roots, Dino Ebel has them and has won for the Dodger farm system at many levels before Scosia grabbed him last year. Another person to consider is John Shoemaker who had most of the kids at Jacksonville a couple of years ago and took them to Minor League Team of the Year.

You can play the vets every day IF THEY ARE GOOD. Not that it would have mattered, but I thought Kent should have played both games of the doubleheader, for example. But you gotta play Kemp and Loney every day, because they rake.

I notice that other than Helton, that’s a pretty young batting order the Rockies threw out there for all three games. And who won them?

FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY NOW!!!

And Good Night!

I’m not a big Kevin Kennedy fan. The Dodgers need to hire within though.

On October 1st we can all hope to hear about Grittles firing. That will be the true blue fans postseason victory. The players and managers come and go, but the fans endure until death.

ebbetsfld — i agree with your logic. Grady keeps sending him out there in key situations when he’s been off for a long while now. Remind you of another player he did that to? Wilson Betemit ring a bell?? How many games did we lose with that mismanagement of a player?

I’m kind of hoping they fire him the moment the team is mathematically eliminated. That would send an even better message.

grady’s continual use of a tired-out broxton in pressure situations is akin to his abominable refusal to take out pedro against the yanks. does this man ever learn from his mistakes? worse, does he even think his use of pedro was a mistake?

Old Fogey — Let’s see. CO sends out their kids……..and wins. AZ sends out their kids……..and wins. See a pattern here?

terrible season and i blame little for it. his managing skills cost us like 20 games or more. the sad thing is the dodgers front office will keep this joker and blame it on injuries or some other excuse. as a long time dodger fan i’m tired of waiting intill next year slogan. it been 20 years since we last won some thing.

Bob Harvey on DodgerTalk just said that the Dodgers have used 147 different line-ups this season. That seems almost mathmatically impossible in 152 games. As much as the lineups change day-to-day, it’s just inconceviable that we have not used as single lineup more than 6 times.

Alex Rodriguez Opening Day Starter for the Dodgers!

DGD, whats up dude. I miss ya on the board. Bobas is a jerk, the Dodgers stink {well the old ones do}, management can’t see it, and Josh wants everyone to be positive….

LOL

Its fun to be a 9 dollar beer, 5 dollar hot dog paying Dodger fan isn’t it?

But we always have next year for Colletti to sign washed up vets to salvage the season. Right?

orth_joseph: Yes, Arizona, good point. I made the Colorado one.

“I notice that other than Helton, that’s a pretty young batting order the Rockies threw out there for all three games. And who won them?”

Posted by: old_fogey_la@yahoo.com | September 19, 2007 09:01 PM

Arod probably will not come to LA. I spoke with a collague who is from NY and follows the Yankees closely. In short, ARod has been embraced by the fans and he has embraced them. He’s playing happy and joking around. Sure, he will opt out but resign at a higher rate.

His motivation for staying? He wants to create his legacy and he can’t do that anywhere else but NY. They have a group of guys that can contend every year, he wants the ring and the chance to break the HR record as a Yankee.

Moving to another team and the uncertainty it brings just doesn’t fit into Arod mind right now. He’s got the $$, not just needs the legacy.

Any thoughts or arguments against this?

Yah, I pissed of Bobas and that tool Nitestare. I guess calling LTB a ***** sealed the deal. Those guys try too hard to get cyber laid. She is a *****.

Bob Harvey is including the pitcher’s spot, which is hardly fair. If you exclude the pitcher, the six most common batting orders cover 34 games alone.

None have the name “Kemp” in it. One includes “Hillenbrand”. The most repeated order was used nine times. It was:

Furcal

Pierre

Nomar

Kent

Gonzo

Martin

Ethier

Betemit

pitcher

wow..tough loss. Yesterday’s loss was worse, but today’s was just as bad. Our set-up guy in broxton had been lights out the entire season and he gave it away again. Not his fault, as he’s out there trying to make quality pitches, and sometimes you just don’t have it and get hit hard.

Grady, in my opinion played the bullpen the way you should have. Pinch hit for penny in the 6th, beimel/proctor in the 7th, broxton in the 8th to set up for saito in the 9th. Obviously, you can second guess putting broxton in there for the 8th because of “fatigue” or the fact that he’s been struggling lately, but i think when you’re trying to win this game, you go with your best and the guy’s who have been in that position all year long, you’re set-up man in broxton. I mean, who are you going to have setup today if you think otherwise? Hernandez/Seanez/Meloan? I think the choice was clear, but if you’re nitpicking grady’s move throughout the entire year, just throw today’s use of broxton into the mix i guess. Warranted or not.

when you coming back?

From my collegue again….he stated that CO has a very good solid core that may have more talent than the Dodgers. Add to that Kennedy’s comment that CO signed BIG guys for that ballpark. Seems to be working which means that CO inthe future may be a great team in the making.

Coming home today and listening to the first few innings on 980, Vin made a comment that Cllint Hurdle was jotting down notes to review later on what went right and what went wrong with an at-bat, etc. It’s those little things that good managers seem to do. Many of you here make those comments. Either Grady needs to review our comments or hopefully remembers all the little errors in the game to review.

The other choice was to let Beimel start the 8th. The dangerous Atkins, a righty leading off in a one-run game, but Hawpe, lefty, was next. If they PH Spilbaugh for Hawpe, then you have to use Broxton.

The problem is that this is Broxton’s 80th appearance – too much. See my post at 8:46 PM.

Casinod383 — Fair assessment. The only silver lining in that is that you hope Broxton learns something in this for the future. That how you grow as a closer.

orth_joseph…

that’s assuming the yankee’s would pay what he’s asking. If a-rod was so concerned about his NY legacy, and not the money, he wouldn’t be opting out to enter free agency. The Yankee’s have said they will not resign him as a free agent once he opts out. (they will lose the money that the rangers are paying).

Thus, there are 2 scenario’s i see happening.

1) A-rod does not opt-out, but instead a contract extension is agreed upon just after the World Series (he has 10-12 days i believe to declare free agency) where he get’s a substantial salary increase for 6-8 years tacked onto his existing contract. That way, NY keeps the original contract in-tact, with the Rangers paying $30 million left on it, and A-Rod gets what he wants.

2) A-rod opts-out because Boras told him to do so, and no one say’s no to Boras. Yankee’s hold firm on there stance and don’t resign him and he signs elsewhere like the Angels or Dodgers or Cubs.

An interesting subpoint would be if the RedSox through a blank check at A-rod, and gives the yankee’s the right to match. Will the yankee’s soften up and give in to prevent a Ortiz/Arod/Ramirez 3-4-5 combo? I think so..

it’s going to be interesting what happens and what the market would be for A-rod when guy’s like soriano and zito get what they got last year as free agents.

old_fogey..

i agree, broxton’s been appearing a lot this season. But so has beimel. I think beimal has been in 79 games or so. The other downside to having beimel come back to start the 8th is that he came in during the 7th, and would have had to warm up again after the dodger’s batted in the top of the 8th. There’s a concern there when you’re primarily a guy who’s there to get outs, and be done with it. Rather than waiting to come in for another inning.

So as you can see, the decision was easy for Grady i’m sure. There’s no other guy’s in the bullpen other than the guy’s he used today to come in to set-up. Broxton’s been doing it all year, and him giving 2 run home run’s in back to back games is rare indeed.

A. Martinez again reporting on Dodger talk that the clubhouse is divided by veterans and youngsters.

threw*

Most appearances in each spot of the batting order, with season overall OBP (before tonight):

1. Furcal, 130 games, .333 OBP

2. Pierre, 123, .331

3. Nomar, 65, .326

4. Kent, 127, .371

5. Gonzo, 93, .361

6. Martin, 68, .376

7. Ethier, 53, .350

8. Ethier, 34, .350

9. Pitchers, 162, who cares.

well they’re calling it out on Dodger Talk. Young guys v. Old guys is a problem, and its getting worse. Not that we didn’t already know that.

Your first sceneario on ARod is probably what the Yanks will do. But George has the money. He’s opening up that new stadium, you know, so they got the suites and probably more season tickets holders that want to be in teh new stadium so he’ll have more $$ to give than he has now. So opt out or not, he will stay there. But having Texas help pay for the next few years does help.

And he has those Opt out clauses every year in case something REALL bad happend to where NY “forces” him to leave. But again, NY fans and the city have embraced him, which means they are extremely loyal to him and will defend him tooth and nail (whereas they didn’t do that when he first arrived).

or it could be blown out of proportion, to make it a “story” and to have something to talk about. Unless you’re in the clubhouse, you don’t really know what is going on. It might be 1 particular situation, or the entire clubhouse, but who really knows?

The fact that this issue is brought up just now, at the end of the season, is curious to say the least.

Casino — On Broxton, you sometimes have to change something when it’s not working. Brox has given up a few games recently so changing it up isn’t illogical.

I don’t get it. What’s the veterans motive in hating on the young guys ?

Broxton apparently has a sore shoulder that has been bothering him. Could explain his problems lately.

But Beimel has pitched 12 less innings than Broxton; sometimes he faces one guy, but he has also made seven appearances longer than one inning. It’s not unprecedented, but it’s certainly not the normal way Grady has operated the pen.

I still say the real problem is too many Broxton appearances earlier. This individual game pitching management was fine.

the fact that its getting to the public at all, or that A Martinez, a clubhouse liason, is leaking it, is something. Theres got to be *something* going on and obviously its had some kind of negative effect.

Good night all. See you at tomorrow’s afternnon game (lunchtime game)

well you knew it was bound to happen. when you got a manager like little. it was only a matter of time intill thier was going to be fights in the clubhouse.

well, A. Martinez should give us more detail if he want’s to leak something as important as a clubhouse divide.

Afterall, this kind of leaked info leads many fans to wonder what is going on, and in turn, to turn on each other because of various “guesses” of what is going on.

If it’s one particular instance, that is blown out of proportion, then we should know about it, rather than be left to ponder whether it’s an isolated situation or not just to make it “newsworthy”.

old_fogey..

once again, i agree. It could have been broxton or beimel. Either options would have been acceptable to me. Of course, now knowing that Broxton gave up that 2-run home run that lead to the loss, i would have chose beimel to come back in the 8th to set-up. But having broxton in there to set-up for saito wasn’t an egregious mistake on Grady’s fault in my opinion.

wow, and the Padres get a 2 out walk off home run, ugh.

Dodgers need to hire me into their organization.

I don’t have the time at this hour to find the exact figures but they are available. My general point is as follows: Broxton threw as much last year and in the minors he threw even more believe it or not.
Manny, Occam’s razor doesn’t deal with the problem of false assumptions.

I don’t know enough about pitching to know what’s wrong with Broxton but I am confident that statistical evidence of overwork cannot be found.

who the heck is coperhauser@yahoo.com and why is he sending me emails? Actually told me I was being a pain in the *** tonight here. Personally, I thought that my comments were pretty inciteful.

blonde:Your comments were inciteful, the problem is they weren’t insightful.

Broxton right now has thrown 53 pitches fewer than last year and as I said above far fewer pitches than in the minors but that data is not so easily available.

yes, I was trying to be funny, glad you got it LOL.

mike, I don’t think it’s the number of pitches, it’s the number of appearances. He really doesn’t look like he’s in the best shape.

khola88@yahoo.com…KHOLA, You nailed it right on the Button..Mickey Hatcher, There IS NOT, a better candidate for a DODGER Mgr. then Mickey
He also would be Tom LaSorda’s choice. He gives a DAM, is Firey and full of **** & Vinegar.Good Ole Mickey

FWIW, Blondecaboy69 your posts are annoying. How can you manage to bash Penny and Kemp and feel that you have done nothing wrong. Talking that way about our Cy Young candidate and best hitter, you will get your card pulled as you did tonight. Get real, you need to think before you post plain and simple.

I love BOB HARVEY!!!!!
Shame on the Dodgers and their PR dept.

Read Bill Plaschke’s Wed. column.

How is Bob Harvery not informed, Josh? Does he not know they cannot hit and hit with RISP? Does he not know that Loaiza cannot pitch effectively in the majors anymore? Does he not know that we are still in a playoff hunt and Grady Little starts Abreu and LaRoche? Josh, we know you work for the Dodgers and have to always speak highly of them, but you are the embarrassment. You can’t truly believe they are a good team and all the right moves have been made or that we’ll make the playoffs. Why don’t you keep us informed without being such a homer and kissing up to the McCourts and Coletti. Oh wait, that’s your job.

Like Plaschke said, it’s not your fault and the blame shouldn’t be put on your shoulders, except for the call to Harvey during his show, but how about some honesty in your posts and not just positive corporate drivel.

Re: the last two posts, Josh worked for the Giants before he came to the Dodgers. He was doing his job, and doing it well, at all times. If you read Plaschke correctly, you’ll see he supports Josh, as should we. Please lay off him. This is an open forum, and we have Josh to thank for that, so PLEASE STOP BITING THAT HAND THAT FEEDS US.

That said, I still feel that my disappointment with this season will not fade over time, and that the bulk of the blame lies at the feet of Grady Little.

As to dissention in the clubhouse, when you lose four straight games the way we’ve managed, if there’s no dissention the problem is much bigger than if everyone is happy. All the Dodgers should be upset both with themselves and each other, and they should be getting it out of their systems and banding together to salvage what they can out of the rest of the season.

I don’t want it to sound as if I’m defending JB or anything but I do think he’s been overused. It has some affect but the innings pitched really isn’t the problem. It’s pitching 4 days in a row and 10 of 14 and things like that. He’s 23 and I personally don’t think a young guy should pitch that many games 2 years in a row. He pitched in a few games this year when he should have never been out there. If you want your good releivers to be there down the stretch then they shouldn’t be pitching in mop up games like he has on a few occasions this year. Maybe I’m a little bias but I’m a baseball guy and no pitcher that young should pitch that much. Not to mention all the times relivers warm up in the pen and never get used. That takes a toll on them too. If they don’t ruin his arm he’ll be a stud from 25 on.

Waking up still to the Biggest UNDERACHIEVERS in baseball management 2007.

FIRE BOTH COLLETTI AND GRADY!!

“Tonight was one of those situations where we took a knife to a gun fight,” Manager Grady Little said.

The man of the memorable quips spoke of last night’s game. “First you have to buy a gun”, Grady. That should have been Colletti’s job, but he couldn’t find one.

Josh Rawitch covers the Giants for MLB.com and can be reached at jrawitch@sfgiants.com

WOW that explains everything!!!

McCourt what are you doing hiring all these battery chuckers. What happened to Dodger Pride?? Jackie Robinson rather retire than play for the hated ones.

FIRE GRADY

FIRE NED

and now…

“He is finding out that the league is adjusting to him,” Dodgers manager Grady Little said. “There is no doubt in my mind that he will do a good job of adjusting back. His stuff is there, so it’s not a fatigue situation.”

Broxton, whose 80 appearances are a professional career high even if his 79 innings aren’t, tells a slightly different story.

“I’m a little sore,” he said. “I can tell it’s September. I can tell by my location, especially on the breaking ball. But part of baseball is that you have to learn how to get through a whole season and pitch with a lot of appearances.”

YOUR RIGHT GRITTLE its not a fatigue situation.

Does Grady even talk to the young guys???

You guys need to relax. I already knew Josh covered the Giants before, he has even mentioned that in this blog before. What’s the deal ? He’s a Dodger now and doing a great job on this blog. Check out the other blogs from the other teams! There is not another blog like this where you can get the starting lineup everyday and get some interesting news.

Look, I’m mad myself with what’s happening with the Dodgers. I can’t believe we are not going to the playoffs. But what does all that have to do with Josh ?

Go Dodgers !!!!

Josh has done a **** of a job with this blog. I personally tip my Dodger hat to Josh on putting up with us everyday this season, having the patience to post some sort of comment everyday and having the cajones to stand up for his fellow employees (Ned & Grady) at the risk of being ridiculed by us Dodger fanatics. Josh, I believe that your call to Dodger talk the other night was probably out of loyalty or you were following orders from the top. Either way, it was a mistake, you guys (management) cannot censor the opinion of the fans. I want to believe that it was your passion that made you make that call and if that is the case, I got no problem with it, keep the posts coming and we’re all your fans.

graffitigenius@hotmail.com, apparently you can’t read, I wasn’t bashing Kemp, I was criticizing his approach at the plate. Perhaps when you get that GED of yours, you might understand.

With regards to Penny, yes I don’t think he should be a CY Young candidate. He shouldn’t even be in the top 5. Look at his July, August, and now September numbers. That’s half the season, and his sub 3.00 ERA is held intact from his spectacular April, May.

I don’t like Brad Penny. I don’t like his attitude. He acted like a huge baby when he was pulled from that game last year in AZ, when he clearly had lost his command. I personally believe that Penny’s attitude and selfishness dictates how Grady makes decisions. Grady let’s players push him around, and it was fairly clear from the Sunday game in SF when Penny was pulled with 82 pitches, then when he was left to pitch for himself this past Saturday just so he could complete 5 innings.

So even after I posted reasoning and I’m not a blind follower of players for their “reputation”, but Penny has been much less than a #1 or #2 pitcher over the past 3 months.

Now I suspect that they appreciate “YES men” only here on this blog, but take a look at the stats, Penny has not been stellar, and I suspect his attitude carries over to the rest of the team. I wouldn’t put it past a guy like him to put down Loney after the error last night.

But it’s OK, Penny has been sold as the team ace, they’ve done a good job. I just hope they trade him at the deadline next year, and get a ton of value in return for him. The Dodgers need a pitcher who can pitch consistently through out the season. Penny is not that pitcher.

Just noting the fact that both Penny and Brox are on the heavy side by quite a margin. Presumably they come into the season in their own personal best conditioning possible. I will contend that as the season goes along they both pick up additional weight. Whether by coincidence or not, Penny’s stats decline in the second half, and Brox is apparently tiring toward the end of the season. I’m not a conditioning expert, and I’m not sure how much anybody with the ballclub can do to have these major league individuals maintain a desirable body weight, but they would probably both be much more effective if they were each carrying about 40 pounds less.
Just an opinion.

blondecaboy, if Penyy isn’t in the top 5 then who is? I can see Peavy and possibly Webb getting more votes but then who? Their are no lights out pitchers in the NL this year (other than the other 2 mentioned) so saying he shouldn’t finish in the top 5 is

misinformed*

I agree that they both could shed a few pounds but weight hasn’t hurt C.C. Sabbathia any. I think it has to do with to much throwing between games. They need to bring in Kenny Howell to be the pitching coach.

He has a 6-3 record with a 3.65 ERA and thats supposed to be “much less than a #1 or #2 pitcher the past 3 months”? So if you can give me the 5 candidates that should finish ahead of him and an explaination that would help. You seem to be basing your judgements on personal resentment rather than numbers.

Delwyn Young has emerged as one of the Dodgers’ top young hitting prospects after a season in which he led the triple-A Pacific Coast League in runs (106) and doubles (54). But backup catcher Chad Moeller says he has found another area in which Young is a budding talent: chess.

This is in todays LA Times…

Well since Grady doesn’t play Delwyn in the field, maybe he can put him up against Todd Helton and challenge him to a mean game of chess…We have to be be able to beat the Rockies at something.

I agree that Kenny Howell would be a good choice for our pitching coach. That could happen if we FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY and their coaches and staff.

Broxton revealed he’s had some soreness in his right arm after appearing in his 80th game — the fourth-highest total in franchise history.

“I won’t back down,” said Broxton, who surrendered his second homer in as many days and his fifth this month. “I’ll go until I get hurt.”

Great. Your not Tom Petty. Back down. News like this is upsetting. I never want a player to pull a plug, but management should. (Ned or Grady, take your pick)

I think that Ned and Grady lost any control of this team some time ago.

FIRE NED AND GRADY BOTH!!!

Winning is what we all want but for every winner there’s a loser. We just got beat by what will most likely be the ROY and the MVP players of the National league. Did Grady go to Broxton too much, YES !! But, let’s not forget that just the other day most of you were all over Grady for not playing our best lineup !! I’m sorry but this is what happens when you throw all your trust in kids !! They buckle to the pressure !! Most of them don’t know how to channel all the adrenaline. This is a life experience that most young people have to experience before they can realize that it’s something they have to control. Have the kids been playing better then the veterans, YES !! But the kids have never experienced the extreme pressure and excitement of a close race at this level. We’ve seen it time and time again in all sports. Kids excel in the early stages and falter in the finals. This is what makes a veteran a great value to have. This is why Ned has mixed in an assortment of veterans around the field. So every kid can have someone to lean on for help. For Martin you have Leberthal, for Broxton you have Wells and Saito etc… For Abreu and LaRoche you have Kent ! For Either to have Gonzo etc… I think we did great this year especially with what happened over the course of the year on the DL. Plus we play in the most contested division in the National League. For the last 2 years it’s come down to the very end of the season before our division is clinched. And the Wild Card continues to come from our division. This says a lot about who we have to play the most.

Am I searching for straws, probably !! Is Grady the best we can get, NO !! Did Ned’s moves cause us to lose, NO !! Will Grady get fired ?? most likely !! But at the end of the day, someone has to win and someone has to lose. And losing ***** !!! BUT, the game was great to watch and nobody can say they ran over us !! When the Western Division moves on without us, they’ll know they were in a fight when they played the Dodgers !! Our day will come and I think most will agree next year will be the year. Partly because our kids will no longer be rookies or even sophomores, they’ll be young veterans !! Our dynasty has just begun, we should all rejoice in the thought that we were there to see it develop !!

Go Dodgers !!!

Josh. Thanks for all you do.

Guys it has been a real frustrating year…I argued back in April that I would rather come in 4th with kids and no payroll while being set up for 08..I never thought the sum of the parts would be good enough this

1. OF projected to hit less than 40HR total

2. Bad defensive team

3. Bad projected 3-4-5 hitters.

The other issues are just gravy…

So it’s a collective thing. Not a Juan Pierre thing or Gonzo/Nomar thing etc..

I stick to my guns without hesitation that Ned is the wrong guy for this job.

I will shut up about it now and pray for the best.

I’ll give him another year but will be stoked if he is fired.

Grady has to go in any case and I like Grady and have been a defender of his but he has managed us out of the post season, not in with the lineup changes and dumb moves.

Time to move on there.

gary smith, I always respect your perspective but I have to disagree with you on the kids buckling under the pressure assessment. Look at Arizona, their kids aren’t caving in. The Rockies themselves are a very young team and they are thriving right now. Kids, veterans, 2nd year players are all alike, they are individuals, certain individuals with thrive, others will falter. I’m not saying Broxton has the propensity to choke, he’s just going through a “dead arm” period from being overworked. Certain kids will thrive, others will fail (some will learn and grow, some won’t). Bottom line is we should have the youngsters playing so they can get seasoned.

P.S. Ryan Braun will bring home the ROY but you’re right about Holliday

Why all the love for Josh?

1) It’s fairly easy to post once a day on a blog.

2) Josh didn’t create this blog, MLB hired someone to set it up for him.

3) Josh is a hired PR guy who has no passion for the Dodgers. He worked for the Giants before coming here.

4) Everything Josh says or writes should be taken with a grain of salt and understood to be only one side of the story.

With that said, Josh’s mental lapse on Sunday, calling DodgerTalk an embarrassment, was not only a slap to Bob Harvey, but to all Dodger fans who have an opinion of the team.

On paper, the Dodgers have a better team than the Rockies. There is one glaring difference though: The Rockies have a manager who wins ballgames for them.

So, Josh, if Grady is so wonderful, what is your spin on why the Dodgers are in 4th place behind seemingly lesser teams?

Here’s my take for next season. I believe that as much as the majority of us will not like it, Grady Little will be back. We can complain all we want and sign petitions and whatever else we can do, but he will be the manager. A bigger issue to me though, is who will be the leader of this team? This is important because Grady will be a lame duck manager and I don’t think that Mr. McCourt will have any problems pulling the pin on him next season, in season. If Jeff Kent returns, and I hope he does, he HAS to be the leader of this young core of players. He has to show them how to prepare everyday to play hard, to play hurt and to play through rough spots. This team this year lacked veteran leadership, you can talk about Gonzo, and he’s a great guy, but the minute he complained about his playing time and not wanting to return next season he lost all credibility as a leader. Furcal, another veteran, is a quiet guy and one who, i have read, is very good with young latino players, and that’s fine, but we have a lot of young players that are not latino. So the obvious choice would be Kent. The cowboy has to come back for 1 more season and lead by example, because as we know he is not very vocal, he needs to be the one guy in the clubhouse the kids look up to. Grady Little is a person, who in my opinion, does not particularly like young players and I would be very surprised of the “kids” feel comfortable with Grady. If the Dodgers struggle next season and Grady gets the ax, who keeps it together? The Dodgers need Jeff Kent back next season more than Jeff Kent needs the Dodgers. If Kent goes, Ned Colletti will go out and sign a veteran, for to much money, to be a leader. Jeff is the guy who we need back next season.

There you go quoting Wins and Losses for a pitcher. He’s protected by Gump with regards to his wins and losses. He’s also been fortunate in a few offensive outbursts.

His numbers for

Jul = 4.91 ERA (3-1) .275 BAA

Aug = 4.00 ERA (1-2) .287 BAA

Sep = 3.24 ERA (2-0) .316 BAA

I’d put Bills well ahead of Penny in terms of numbers. If it weren’t for Penny’s stellar April / May, he’d be no where near CY Young.

No way we come in 4th with a payroll twice the size of the three teams ahead of us with no one getting fired.

That’s just my guess.

my preference would be to keep Colletti and have Grady axed.

His ERA is 3.65 after the all-star break, you can’t take small sample size and say he’s not a #1 or #2. Is Chris Young a legit #2? If your answer is yes then I recommend that you look at his all-star splits. I see to bad months for him this year or 65.1 innings out of the 203 he’s thrown. That hardly qualifies him as a bust in the second half. He has improved from last year and you have some sort of personal grudge because you are obviously ignoring the numbers.

2 bad months*

why anyone would want to keep Coletti is beyond me. He has proven nothing other than a high number of DFA’s, bad trades and going out and getting this past offseason exactly what we did not need while guarnteing 30 million to three players next year that most would prefer to not have on the roster.

Really his August numbers weren’t terrible either so its more like a 29.1 bad inning stretch this season which is not bad when he’s thrown 203.

Jungar, I definitely agree Coletti has made repeat bad decisions in terms of major investments.

I would say..

Peavy

Webb

Penny

Smoltz

Harang

Hammels

people go well we lost schmidt, kuo and wolf and I agree that ***** and not all on Coletti of course, however with loosing those guys we were still in the top 5 in baseball in ERA so pitching wasn’t the problem.

The offense and defense were the problems and in most cases I would say the players played to their ability and recent career averages.

Thats about where I see it too jungar, although I have been really impressed with Harang throwing up those numbers in that cracker jack box of a field.

the reason I would keep Colletti is to avoid double turn over again on manager and GM. The only way I’d like to see Ned replaced is if it’s Ng or White taking the helm.

Now back to Penny. Yes I don’t like Penny or his attitude. Yesterday was classic Penny after Loney didn’t catch that foul ball. You could see he was bitter and then served up the jack 2 pitches later.

Again, it comes back to attitude, and the perception that he’s the best SP on this team. His stats are protected by Grady, a week ago Sunday in SF is a perfect example.

Penny flopped in the second half last season, and he’s only slightly better the second half this season. I just don’t feel as though he’s mentally tough enough, and that he’s a selfish player. That’s a personal opinion of course.

People are talking about a bad attitude going around in the clubhouse. I could easily see Penny leading the charge in that bad attitude.

“It’s pretty self-explanatory — we’re not winning,” said Loney. “It’s a little tough. It doesn’t feel good, you know? I’m having fun. Maybe some of the other guys aren’t having fun. Some of them don’t look like they’re having fun, but I am.”

guess who is not having fun?

I’d have to say my top 5 CY pitchers would be…

Peavy

Penny

Harang

Webb

Hudson

Attitude aside, Penny will finish in the top 3 in CY Young votes this season and deservedly so.

well according to Blonde my guess would be Penny? lol

Coletti’s track record is horrible, the only thing saving his *** is McCourt. McCourt almost has to stick with Coletti another year or two just because of the way he handled our previous GM , IMO. Seems like a perfect storm to me.

ok, you guys are right, I’m a little over board on saying Penny shouldn’t finish in the top 5. It’s just guys like him that seem to throw a team off. He just doesn’t strike me as a team player. Grady yanks him because he didn’t deserve to lose a game? Is that coming from the manager, or coming from the player?

Yes, I doubt Penny is having fun. Right now I doubt Broxton is having much fun either, and if it’s true that he’s hurting a little, then he needs to be shut down for this last week. There is no reason at all for him to see the mound for the rest of the season. I won’t bash Broxton, or really any of the young guys. I’ll criticize a young guys approach at the plate or something about his defense, but it’s more critical towards improvement. I think those guys are still willing to figure it out and learn.

This team has a very bright future, but that’s assuming they have the right management in place to keep it shining.

BTW, has Delwyn Young started since his 4 hit game? I still think it was such a disgrace that they sent him packing after such a fine offensive performance.

Also, this team owes NOTHING to Gonzo to finish out this season as a starter. As of Tues and IMO the two losses in Frisco, this team should have gone into 2008 building mode. Play the 2008 players, and give a hand shake to the guys who won’t be a part of the club next season.

Here is my to 3 Cy Young candidates, and order of finish:
Peavy

Webb

Penny

I then figure after the top 3 it’s, not in any order, Smoltz, Harang, Hudson and Young.

All things aside it will be interesting to hear what McCourt has to say.

As I posted he fired Depodesta for not meeting expectations…

It’s easy to see why in 05 they were not met. Our best player broke his wrist unexpectedly, we lost izturis, again unexpexcdly as well as Gagne and we had a shaky farm at the time with little depth. We also had a public spat between manager and GM. We had the Bradley/Kent situation etc…

This year all we had was a few injuries that all teams have and it seems cohesion between GM and field managers.

I agree with those who say keeping Coletti for the sake of turnover is maybe a good reason. I ask you to ask yourself why though? I mean if you were McCourt. Is the turnover issue a perception from the outside we don’t want to have or is it because of how things will work on the inside. I fear it’s more about perception than it is about winning. Like I said before Coletti (and Depo and Evans) were hired that if we truly cared about winning we would hire a GM who has won before. A GM with exp as a GM who has put together a winner. Thats’ my Coletti rant. Nothing against the guy, he seems cool. But were defending a guy who has never won or built a team on his own.

I don’t want Mitch Kupcheck…the dodgers deserve a Jerry West type thing.

turn over on Colletti should only occur if they can’t retain both White and Ng. Offer them Co-GM positions. White for the player knowledge and Ng for the negotiations.

Ned lost his credibility with me when he said Juan Pierre gets on base an afwful lot.

Where would you rank Saito in Cy Young voting?

If Ned really has a problem dealing with Boras, then he should be fired based on that alone. We can’t go into a signing period without the ability to deal with the game’s best players.

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