Dodger Stadium is buzzing like I haven’t seen in quite some time. Tonight’s game is now sold out and while there’s tickets for tomorrow and Sunday still available, I’d bet there won’t be for long. We had about 150 media members on the field for Manny’s first media availability and needless to say, it’s been an interesting 30 hours or so.

Guillermo from Jimmy Kimmel seemed to dominate a lot of the news conference on the field, but that’s ok. He also got Manny to give him a hug. Plus, our TV producer Brad Zager found a funny way to show “Manny being Manny” in tonight’s broadcast on FSN Prime Ticket so tune in to check it out. KABC 790 came down from 3 p.m. on and broadcast live with Larry Elder and Doug McIntyre, then went straight into an early edition of DodgerTalk at 6 p.m. and they’re practically going all Manny, all the time.

There’s been so much media coverage the last 24 hours, our daily clips packet looks like a movie script. I’ve got to imagine this will slow down eventually, much like craziness surrounding Joe Torre did shortly after his arrival, but it’s definitely keeping everyone on their toes.

To make room for Manny, Nomar heads to the DL…Joe Torre said he wants to make sure he’s 100 percent before he comes back which is why we were extra cautious.

Joe also said that Juan Pierre will likely get the bulk of the time with Kemp and Manny for now, taking nothing away from Andre Ethier. Not tonight, though, as Andruw is in the lineup against a tough lefty like the Big Unit. I seem to remember the last time we had a 20-year-old phenom square off against him, Edwin Jackson did pretty well. Of course, I’d like to think that Clayton’s future will take a different path than Edwin’s did, but only time will tell.

Here’s the lineup:

Kemp, RF

Blake, 3B

Martin, C

Manny, LF

Kent, 2B

Loney, 1B

Jones, CF

Berroa, SS

Kershaw, P


first to comment

lets kill these Dbacks boys!!


All I can say is…Unbelievable. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked with Jones in the lineup, but everyone seems to get it but Joe.

I think Joe has a lot more experience in running a baseball team than say.. anonymous blogger edwcarter….

Why isn’t anyone posting?

I am happy. Lets go Dodgers!!!!!

ajay- cause everyone’s at the game.. lol

it’s absolutely mind-blowing that torre still insists on running jones out there. few players in the history of the game have had the opportunity to do as sickeningly pathetic as andruw has over the number of at-bats he has gotten. torre sucks at life. go dodgers.

I’m not sure how anonymous I am…I’ve been posting on this blog for the past 2 years. I wonder how up to speed Spanner is with the Dodgers. Does he know that Andruw Jones is on our team?? If not… I’ll fill you in. He sucks.

thats true
almost game time.

posting on a blog doesnt qualify you to manage a baseball team. Yes Jones sucks.. but most of the people on this board supported his signing last summer.. i know i was here… and Ethier sucks against lefties this season… I’d rather see Pierre play than Jones but Johnson is tough against lefties so they might as well stick Jones in there for a game… I’m sure Joe is playing the percentages…

I’m just not posting ’cause I don’t have much more to say than I already have, heh. I’m excited by this new possibility, but am a little worn out by this week that started with a quake and is ending with MannyMania. Just waiting for the game to start.

GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!

WTF? Does Torre have Cranial Rectal Inversion? How can he justify putting the Curacao Cow in this lineup with Andre hitting lefties so well? I hope Manny can come right in, and contribute right away. I’m still fuming over the poor decision making by management last night that caused the loss. That game was winable. I’m hoping for a better outcome tonight.

Thanks for the insight Spanner. I was thinking this blog had me fully prepared to run a baseball team, but thanks to your most recent post it all makes sense. Keep running out the worst, old, washed up, under performing, over paid, vets and let the young talent sit and rot on the bench. Much more clear. Thanks again.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones starts to hit now that Manny’s here. It might be wishful thinking, but maybe just maybe he couldn’t handle being the guy. In Atlanta he was behind Chipper,and some of the others. Also I don’t understand how Torre thinks having Slappy in the line-up is better than Ethier and his RBIs, and HRs. Plus the obvious Ethier can throw.

Ethier against lefties is hitting .193 with a .280 obp
Jones against lefties is hitting .182 with a .308 obp
Pierre against lefties is hitting .372 with a .408 obp

spanner. Like almost everyone else, I was exited for the Dodgers to get a quality gold glove CF, but I was blown away with his price tag. Defensively he’s still solid. But his woes at the plate this year are just pitiful, and he’s had plenty of chances, and opportunities to come around. Bottom line is, he’s still below the Mendoza line, and It would take some major divine intervention for him to finish up the season above .200.

Did anyone notice that Jones was running sprints next to Manny when the camera panned on the field during Dodgers Live? Who is he suddenly trying to impress? It’s a little late for him to start caring. He never comes out of the dugout to stretch prior to a game. I was at the game last night and he was nowhere to be found as usuall until the starting lineups were announced.

jj, i’m not saying Jones should play more… it’s the constant pierre bashing when he has actually played well that bugs me and keeps from posting here more.. I didn’t want Jones to begin with.. A Pierre/Ethier platoon I think is the best option here… Ethier against righties and Pierre against lefties..

Ethier, Jones bumped from LA outfield
Arrival of Ramirez squeezes pair out of starting time

“To me, Juan certainly deserves the right to play,” Torre said. “At this point in time, his experience, his consistency, the way he goes about his business. When [Rafael] Furcal went down, he’s meant so much to the club. He brings another dimension, his basestealing ability. He gives a professional at-bat on a regular basis. He’s done it [leading off] longer than Matt. He’s willing to take pitches.”

“Torre said he met with Pierre to explain the situation. He did not speak with Ethier.”

See it and more (if your stomach can take it) at:

spanner JP has more going for himself right now vs Jones. Speed never slumps, and he’s a better hitter than Jones. But his weak arm is pathetic, and costs this team runs against. His lofty price tag aside, he should be used for pinch hitting, pinch running, adn should only be used in the OF for desperate situations.

The “pathetic arm” thing is something thats been inflated by “group think” on this board.. he’s played well in the outfield this season… He should definitely get the start against lefties because he is hitting much better than Jones and Ethier against them.

But the problems with that plan are (1) Pierre can’t adequately play CF because of his poor throwing and (astoundingly) as per the article recently posted on Torre intends to play Pierre in CF against RHP as well. Even though the splits against RHP this season are: 154/240/215; 246/296/280; 299/355/470. I’m sure you can which player goes with which number set.

If you think it’s just this board that feels that way about Pierre, you should go check out Dodger Thoughts. They feel the same way. Most of the people I’ve talked to at games this year do too, as well as a lot of the media, so it’s not unique to Inside the Dodgers. You certainly have the right to your opinion though. We don’t all have to agree.

Pierre has played CF for years, I’m sure he’ll be fine.

Well I’m back from Saturday morning shopping and I’ve read up all on the lineup and what Joe plans for the future are and all I can say is that Andre needs to be traded to a team that wants a solid OF’er. He’s going the way of LaRoche and will never see his full potential develop in LA. He’s a far better player than JP and you’ll never convince me that his speed over-rides all his other weaknesses and he’s a much better player than the ’08 version of Jones. His treatment, in the press, by his manager is disgraceful and you could not and should not be down on the young man if he does not handle this demotion gracefully.

Andre’s used to it by now, and he always handles it with class. I still think his day will come with the Dodgers, but it’s been a frustrating ride so far.

I strongly disagree on how much Pierre’s poor throwing hurts the Dodgers esp. with Furcal not in to relay. In fact it’s not just the throws. I have never seen a ML player take so long to get rid of the ball as Pierre and I have watched baseball for many years. Many runs score on plays where the runner would have been held at 3rd against an average player. In CF it will be even worse. Btw I have nothing good to say about this posting place and have referred it the regulars here as a cult. But Ethier certainly deserve to play over Pierre 100% against RHP and sometimes against LHP ( I could elaborate) but I see no evidence that Torre uses baseball statistics to make decisions. I think he goes by non-rational means such as feel.

When is Connor Jackson gonna quit? That guy’s due for an out sometime.

Juan’s level of defense pails in comparision to Ethier’s. And no, the “pathetic arm” thing has not been inflated by this board. All of MLB know it, it’s in the scouting reports. And If you watch the games, you see teams taking the extra base on Juan all the time, because they know they can. How many people do you see trying that on Ethier or Kemp? Another reason Ethier should be in the line-up over Pierre? POWER! He has 11 HRs. How many do you think he’d have if he saw as many consistent ABs as Pierre. All this talk about how the Dodgers need and want power and you keep one of the guys who can give it to you on the pine.

If Dre leaves this year, it could be Colletti’s swan song, even after this blockbuster deal. The shocking thing about all this to me is that it feels like Monopoly, and scored in the Chance cards. “2 months of Manny Ramirez, Red Sox pay rest of salary.” Andy’s happy, gets a chance to play, and is with his brother. Whichever poster comared this to the Lakers getting Pau is just about right on the button, if they had traded Farmar instead of Kwame.

Great quality at bat by Manny!

did prime ticket just take a dump on anybody else?

Is everyone watching the game on Extra Innings and in LA at a commercial break during the top of the 4th?

Yes, it did. It just came back up, but not with Vin, with different announcers.

yea yarrum its still at break for me too.

We need to work the count here and make Randy throw some pitches.

Come on Russ! Get on for Manny!

Spanner your as retarded as Torre congrats. Way to show it off.

Easy Jungar..where’d that come from?

Spanner has the right to his opinion.

Joe also said that Juan Pierre will likely get the bulk of the time with Kemp and Manny for now, taking nothing away from Andre Ethier.

Taking nothing away other than possibly millions of dollars,. playing time and his chances of winning a championship because were going to play a lesser player. The only thing Pierre deserves is a spot on the bench. I’d rather have Jones play and bat 8th, we would be much better than Juan playing CF and batting 1st. I’d rather have my auto out just before the pitcher and at least have an adequate CF in there. If he could play CF then why wasn’t he and why was Kemp? They could have easily gone Ethier-Pierre-Kemp before b ut didnt because they know he can’t play CF. No, this is to keep his mouth shut. All my happiness gone just like that.

so do. My opinion is he is retarded.

Nothing personal spanner I am sure you are a great guy (or gal) just like Pierre is.

I’m so mad that I’m shaking. Not necessarily about tonight’s lineup. I almost understand it with Johnson on the mound. However, what has me on fire is the news that the manager of my favorite team thinks that Juan Pierre starting the bulk of the games over Andre Ethier. Joe Torre is a bonafide moron, of that I have no doubt.

I’m not going to post a bunch of stats supporting my view. All anyone has to do is scroll on back over the last several months to find them in volume. Yes, he’s fast. So what? It’s not a prerequisite to have a dynamic base stealer to win a World Series. What IS necessary is to have that leadoff man get on base consistently. Matt Kemp does a better job of that than Pierre. It’s a FACT.

There are more stats to show that the Dodger’s record with Pierre leading off is worse than with Kemp. That is another FACT.

The defense with Pierre in center and Kemp in right is worse than with Kemp in center and Ethier in right. That is another FACT.

Torre cannot back up his decision to bench Ethier with any FACTS whatsoever. All he says is that “everyone is going to get playing time”. Bull. Name me a successful team that rotates 5 outfielders. Assuming that Manny will play virtually every game, that leaves the other 4 for 2 positions. There is no way to keep everyone sharp. No way. I don’t care how many times Torre says it, it won’t happen. Ethier thrives by playing regularly. When they send some kid back to the minors because he’s on the bench, what do they say? “We want him to play every day.” You must have regulars at all 8 positions. If Torre insists on rotating 4 outfielders in two positions, we won’t have 4 sharp outfielders, we’ll have 4 rusty ones.

spanner, you’re not the only one that posts here to want Pierre to play. Yes, he works hard. Yes, he’s doing what he’s always doing. No, it’s not his fault he’s horribly overpaid. No, and I can’t emphasize this enough, NO, I DON’T HATE HIM. What I hate, and I mean HATE, is that by playing him over Ethier, it weakens the team. There is simply no way that anyone can say that an outfield of Ramirez/Pierre/Kemp is better than Ramirez/Kemp/Ethier either offensively or especially defensively. If you think I’m wrong, let’s see some proof. Stats. Numbers. I’ll even give you a great website to go and get them if you don’t already know where to go:
Bring them out, and then I’ll go to work and we can have a wonderful, respectful discussion without a bunch of name-calling.

I never like it when someone complains without presenting a solution, so here is mine. It’s not new. The starting outfield is Ramirez/Kemp/Ethier. Jones comes off the bench in the later innings as a defensive replacement when we have the lead, and plays center with Kemp moving to right and Ethier to left. Pierre comes off the bench to pinch-run or pinch-hit or pinch-bunt. Either Jones or Pierre can start occasionally to give any of the starters a rest, say twice a month. Period. Not brain surgery. Not my idea either. Cruise around Rotoworld, SI, ESPN, FoxSports, virtually any of the websites that talk baseball. They are ALL saying the same thing. The ONLY place that you will see Pierre playing over Ethier is on the Dodger lineup that Torre produces. The ONLY place. If you can find someplace that agrees with you, give me the link. I’ll give you 5 that disagree.

Finally, to those who say that I’ve never managed a big league team: can’t argue with that. That doesn’t mean that I couldn’t do it. It’s not that hard. If you think it is, you perhaps need to take another look at the job. I could do it. A lot of people on this blog could do it. I could never play the game at that level, not on the best day I ever had. But I could have coached or managed if I wanted to pay the price of riding buses throughout the minors for no money for decades. But I’ve been a student of the game for a long, long time and have picked up enough to be able to know who the best 3 outfielders are, and the 4 best infielders, etc. I know when to pinch hit. I know when to pinch run. I know when to hit-and-run and double-switch and when to remove a starter. It’s not that hard, really. But if Joe Torre is such a great manager who knows so much, why did he fail in Atlanta? Why did he fail in St Louis? Why did he fail with the Mets? Why did he fail to win the Series in the last 7 years with the Yankees with BY FAR the highest payroll in MLB? Why? Why did the Yankee fans hang the nickname of Clueless Joe on him? Why is he not still there?

I am as big a fan of the Dodgers as anyone. I haven’t been following them as long as TruBlue or PierreEMW, but even they are not bigger fans than I. I am not a bigger fan than most anyone else that cares enough to hop onto this blog day after day either. We all (most of us anyway) are great Dodger fans. We ALL want them to win the Series. How? Simple. Put the players on the field at all times that gives us the best chance to win. There are two sides of the ball game. Offensively and defensively, the outfield that does that does not include Jones or Pierre. Disagree? Fine. Let’s see your arguments.

what a play by our “big boys” out there in the outfield…a ******* triple on a ball that barely got by the shortstop??? i could have held that to a single. a good team would have got that run in.

like i said yesterday….just because manny “the god” is in our lineup, that does not mean we are gonna win. i dont even think ill be that mad when im watching the dbacks in the playoffs this year, i might just laugh. i wonder if mccourt will fire ned now?? lol. he should fire himself

I’m disappointed but not surprised by JoJo’s decision to reduce Dre’s playing time. Whether you’re talking either Jones or Pierre, Andre is the overall superior player. Since, apparently, the D’s won’t deal him, it now appears that he is solely an insurance policy against Manny’s departure. Being the class individual that he is, he would never say it but the shabby treament that Andre has received from D’s managment has got to be sticking way down with him. Memo to D’s management: you reap what you sow.

Completely agree with you, Eric. We lose both power and defense when Pierre is in the lineup instead of Ethier. I don’t think Pierre’s speed is enough to compensate for that. Manny is a great hitter, but average defender, so we really need both Ethier and Kemp in there for their arms. Ethier is struggling against lefties this year, but he’s always hit them well and I think if he played every day, he’d work his way through that.

As far as Jones, is concerned, his stats this year speak for volumes. He just struck out again as I was typing this, lol.

I like that AB by Berroa.

I agree with you 98% Eric .. I’d have said 100% but that would have just added to miketink’s theory that we’re an evil baseball cult.

did Mariano Duncan get ejected?
who took his place?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Andre hit lefties pretty well his first two years? That just comes from memory. I’ll leave the actual verification for those who have the numbers more at hand.

I had a number of things to say before I saw the line-up, and even worse (much, much, worse), Joe’s comments, and just to add a crushing deflating blow, the Gurnick story that redfox linked.
As I said yesterday–and, as just about anyone who follows baseball (or, has heard of baseball, or is vaguely familiar with games played with a ball)–it’s a great deal if Torre plays the right players. I sort of tried to game in my head what the order should be and what it would be with the right 8 players, and finally come to the conclusion that I really did not care, so long as the right 8 guys were in there everyday.
I’m not going to gripe about Andruw Jones getting a spot start, but the logic of it is zilch–here’s a HOF pitcher, and we’ll throw up a guy who is tanking because he’s right-handed.
Actually, I don’t think I have heard more statements that are objectively and provably wrong than what Joe said. I can’t argue with Pierre’s work ethic, but if you are the hardest working player in baseball, and all you produce is at the level of Juan Pierre, you’re just not very good. Any coach who has ever lived–any teacher who has ever lived–knows that you want the person who has room for growth. Pierre has peaked, and Andre hasn’t, and Andre is already better. So talking about Pierre’s work ethic as a reason to play him is just as stupid as talking about Manny’s work ethic as a reason NOT to play him. You don’t play the guy who works hardest, you play the guy who plays best. And if you have a guy–particularly a young guy–with potential, maybe you take the legendary coaching of yours and get him to play better.
So many of Torre’s statements are ridiculous–Pierre takes pitches–yet Ethier sees 4.16 pitches per plate appearance, the highest amongst the team regulars, while Pierre sees 3.76, less than all but Nomar and Kent (and tied with that person that Torre thinks is a bad lead-off hitter, Matt Kemp). Torre justifies leading Pierre off because “he’s done it longer” than Kemp. There is really no way to respond to this without your head exploding. He’s done it longer, and as long as fools like Torre keep hitting him lead-off instead of Kemp, he’ll do it longer. But just because you’ve done something for a long time, does not mean you should keep doing it. Only if you do it well, and Pierre, really, doesn’t.
Torre than says he needs to give Manny protection, so he has Kent hit behind him. I’m not arguing with Kent hitting fifth, per se, and was resigned to that simply because Jeff Kent has had a HOF career, and even with the Dodgers, until this year when he has played, he has produced. And he’s had some bad luck, so just say, “hey, I think Kent can get it going.” Fine. But if you want to protect Manny, try hitting the guy who’s hitting 50 points better (Loney) behind him.
And, I could go on about what he said and did today, but who has the time to do it, but I not that the vaunted communicator never even spoke to the kid. That’s right. Andre Ethier is a player who was so highly valued (amazingly–I was actually going to compliment Ned for perhaps having a better sense than I thought) that we wouldn’t trade him for Manny Ramirez–a player with 500+ HR and a one way ticket to Cooperstown. But he is apparently not valued enough that the manager can even be bothered to talk to him before the game. Can you imagine that? I mean, on most teams, even players who get released mid-season get the basic human courtesy of a conversation with the manager. But not if you play for Torre.
It’s truly amazing how dumb one guy’s statements about a baseball team could be. It’s like watching Isiah Thomas run the Knicks without the sexual harrassment. You know, I’m a fan, and I like to think a smart and knowledgeable fan. I think I have been ahead of the collective media/baseball insider group-think on a lot of player issues, and I have been wrong on some. So, if it were just me, yelling into the wind, fine. If it were just those of us on ITD, OK. Or just us and the DodgerThoughts posters, DodgerBlues, and, apparently, the pre-game show on KCAL-9. But I have not read or seen anywhere where anyone other than Torre has thought that the outfield should be anything other than Kemp, Ethier, and Manny. I mean, not even Ned went out on a limb to say it, instead just kicking it over to Torre.
I would like to be mad. I would like to just issue a scathing comment on the horrendous stupidity of the move, but I can’t. I am too tired. I am too thoroughly unsurprised that this manager–who was supposed to be the leader, who was given carte blanch to turn the team into a winner, who had the credibility to cut the crap in the clubhouse, tell players that contracts don’t matter but winning does, and supposedly communicate it all so well that everyone would be better for it–repeatedly makes decisions that are unworthy of even the most minimal level of commonsense, much less big league leadership. I am simply numb. It’s like a tragic story, where the hero turns out to be the villan, and the fans are the victims. People hail Joe Torre, and yet he was given a team better than what we had last year, with more talent, with kids who were fully ready to blossom, and while Grady Little got us only 2 games over .500, Torre has us even.
It’s really too bad, too. The old saying goes that every team is going to win 54 games and every team is going to lose 54 games, it’s what you do with the other 54 games that count. Well, we’ve lost our 54 and won our 54, so it’s the next 54 that are going to matter, and Manny could really have made that difference in a big way. He could have taken one of our biggest holes in the line-up and turned it into our biggest strength. Instead, he took one of our biggest strengths and improved it a bit. But we’re still left with the hole.
Oh, the Dodgers can win the divison this year–I did not doubt that. And I’ve said it before, they could win it all if our kids really start firing on all cylinders the way we know they are all going within the next couple of years. And I don’t doubt that Manny’s presence improves those odds. But not nearly as much as it should. And Torre’s continued failure–as a strategist, a counselor, a teacher, an evaluator of talent, as a communicator, and a leader–is going to bring those odds down.
Someone asked on the last thread “do you want to win now or win later?” My answer is simple. Yes. But winning at all is going to take a manager that shows some sign–some small indication, some glimmer of hope–that he knows what he is doing. We have this 5-year deal for Juan Pierre hanging on us, a 2-year deal for Jones, a 3-year deal for Schmidt. But the biggest shackle we have is a three-year deal for Torre.
I want us to win. I want desperately to have that time that I grew up with when the Dodgers were winning not just once, but year-after-year were at the head of the pack, in the middle of the race. I first became a fan the year the Dodgers were the defending World Champions, and they fought until the last day of the season before Joe Morgan ruined it. But they won the division again the next year, and again two years later, and three years later there couldn’t have been anything better for a 12-year-old kid than for his team to win the World Series. But it’s been 20 years–it’s been 10 years since we really had hope. And with Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton, and Kershaw, you could see it coming. And the trade for Manny made it imminently possible.
I did not log on tonight with the intent of blasting Joe Torre, but it’s awful. It’s awful because I would rather be following the game, but he has robbed me of the ability to care. Oh, I want us to win, and I’ll be checking. I, like all of you, clearly have a certain level of addiction. But I simply don’t have the drive tonight. I wish I did. I planned all day to go home early, tune into MLB.TV, and take in a great Friday night match-up after a long week, working 1000 miles from home and knowing I won’t be back for over three months. I wanted to be rooting for the Dodgers and enjoying the voice o Vin Scully. But if I could not be doing that, I would rather be shouting, cursing, and yelling the other side, or even yelling and cursing our own management. But I don’t even have that in me. To have hope and faith in a team, and to keep having that hope squashed, to keep seeing a manager make so many bad decisions that it simply drains your ability to believe anymore, is too wretchedly painful to even care.
For now.

if i see that score board watch thing, which is all about manny, in any of the next games and its all about manny, im gonna be pissed. one came up saying manny is due up 5th next inning…seriously?? come on 5th?? when was the last time the dodgers had five batters come up in a single inning?? next ill see manny due up 9th next inninng lol. there are 8 other guys out there…this isnt basketball where one player can almost single handedly win a game for a team every night. just a shame…hope mccourt enjoys his name being printed in every paper and all the money he is gonna make with all the new manny stuff coming out

Mattingly is coaching first.

Good Job Juan~ YEA!
Let’s get on the board now boys!!

JP must be the world’s luckiest basball player. He gets on with an error and gets picked up but makes 2B on an error. That will be all Joe needs to confirm to himself that JP is the secret to the Dodgers success – AND wqhat’s the bet he gets credit for firing the team up!.

I’ve been reading this blog for a while now, but this is my first post. Just responding to dodgereric and all the others who are livid and ready to jump off a bridge because Pierre might get more PT than their beloved Ethier.

I’m not gonna argue with you guys that Pierre has a better arm and has more power than Andre. Obviously Andre’s got the advantage there. But you guys make Juan sound like an over-the-hill minor leaguer with some of your comments. The stats, and his play on the field, simply disprove that. He’s a career .300 hitter and is batting .284 this year (compared to Ethier’s .289 and .274). Lifetime, his OBP is .347 and .328 this year (Ethier is .351/.338). Pierre’s career fielding % is in the low .990s. Ethier’s in the mid to high .980s.

What I’m trying to say is both are pretty similar in these all important categories, but from your guys’ posts, you seem to give the clear advantage to Ethier and make it seem like Pierre is completely ineffective.

Speed-wise Pierre has a decisive edge. Power-wise Ethier has it there. It comes down to what’s best for this lineup and what you value more. Yes we need power, but we’re also a team that needs to manufacture runs to win, and Pierre’s speed is a vital tool in that. Plus, it’s not like Ethier has THAT much power.

So basically, just chill people. Pierre is a good outfielder and gives us just as much a chance to succeed as Etheir does. With Manny in the lineup now, hopefully Pierre’s skills will really be taken advantage of.


Great hit, Kemp!

Dre is a class act, and definitely a team player.

From the Ken Gurnick article:

“Ethier said he had heard the Dodgers refused to deal him but took the high road when asked about reduced playing time.

“We worked hard all of these first couple months to get to this situation where we could get a chance to get to where we want to go, and now we’ve kind of added another solution that could help solidify what we’re going for,” Ethier said. “With that, we’ve got to start focusing on that stuff and put all the individual stuff aside and just say, ‘This is what we’re going for, and we’ve got a legitimate shot to do it,’ and with this guy we can definitely say that we’re going to be a contender and can be a contender.”


Can’t say anything bad about a Dodger with at last 2 hits in his debut.

Chan Ho??? NO!!!!!


Tony made up for his error.

HAMLET- Thank you. If you have been reading you should know that I have been saying that all along. I believe it with all my heart. Pierre gets his job done. He’s a contact hitter and has seed. He doesn’t fail at that.
Thank you 🙂

Correction : *speed* not *seed*

leekfink, I feel your pain and agree with all you said about Torre. His management decisions defy logic. Undoubtedly the Dodgers would be much better off without him. And yes, it is getting awful hard to care anymore.

Anyone getting the impression that the D-Backs might just be a better team than us. Manny or no Manny?

Someone on Dodger Thoughts just posted that it seemed like they were replaying last night’s game. I thought that about summed it up.

If we play a guy with a 600 ops and weaker defense over a guy with an 800ops and better defense then I hope we loose because we deserve to. What is obvious is that the dodgers would hope that someone will claim Pierre off waivers. They know Andre has no right to say a thing and even if he said screw this, what’s the big deal we owe him 400k and release him. We owe Juan 30+ Million dollars. And Then another 20+ to Jones still and it’s an economic choice. I know Torre is smart enough to see that Ethier is better, that’s why he wasn’t traded. It’s a shame. No one even would consider trading for Pierre. I think Joe will eventually do the right thing which is to start the best 3 i just hope we will be able to overcome the 3-5 game deficit we will be in because of it.

That’s it. It’s over. We won’t come back. Maybe we will have a better game tomorrow. Good nite everyone.
pierreseastmeetswest, Good to have you back. I had a hernia operation 7 weeks ago. Takes awhile to be back at full speed.
Get us a win.

if we get out of this inning with the score 2-1 we’ll be okay.

Too bad. Kershaw pitched well enough, and deserved the win. Again. They still have a chance, if the bullpen doesn’t have any more miscues.

Great job, Cory, keeping us close. We’re still in it.

Arg. we not only need to win, but we so need to beat this team.
Come on guys. Rally time. Someone get it started please!

Hey Dodgers – time to stop pretending you’re a relevant, better-than-500 team, huh?

Can’t even beat the Snakes. Just like last year, a series against the Snakes expose the Dodgers. A 1-13 stretch can’t be far away now 😐

Unfortunately Amy, you’ve been one of the few people who have supported Juan on here (not to mention other blogs). I’ve never really understood all the hate for him. I’m not saying he’s a perennial All-Star. Just a solid-to-good MLB outfielder, which is exactly what Ethier is.

I’ve got nothing against Andre. I’ll be just as happy to see him as the 3rd OF as Pierre.

As an Aussie I really dislike being called a “hater” just because I don’t like a the way a particular player performs but I’ll always use this line of thinking when it comes to JP … when the chips are down in the bottom of the 9th and you need a hit who would you rather see at the plate JP or just about anyone else. If your answer is JP then ……

Hello, hamlet and welcome. Let’s talk.

Yes, I’m mad. You bet. Jump off a bridge? Never. Beat an inanimate object? In the old days, yes, but not anymore. Just mad at Torre’s stubborn lunacy.

Who is calling Pierre “an over-the-hill minor leaguer”? Not me. I’m simply saying that Ethier is a better player and it’s a crime that Pierre is playing in his place. You think they’re close, I don’t. You’ve picked your stats to prove that they’re close. Here are mine:

First, using your stats I see that Pierre’s BA is a little higher but Ethier’s OBP is better. That means that Ethier is getting on base more. I contend that OBP is a better stat than BA. If Ethier, hitting anywhere from 2nd to 8th in the order on any given day, is getting on base more often than someone whose job it is to lead off the game and getting on base, I claim that Pierre is not doing a good job. Your leadoff hitter’s primary responsibility is to get on base. If he doesn’t do that, what good is his speed?

Second, you use Pierre’s career stats. His career OBP peaked in 2004 and has been dropping ever since. His slugging % has completely disappeared. He is in decline and Ethier is just getting started.

Fielding % means virtually nothing in this discussion. Pierre knows that he’s never going to throw anyone out so he almost never even tries, therefore, no throwing errors. I’ll admit that he’s made some nice catches this year, kudos for that. So let’s agree that with the glove they’re about even. But fielding the position includes throwing and stopping the other team from taking extra bases. 2008 assists: Pierre – 1, Ethier – 7.

Speed and power. Juan has 9 doubles, 1 triple, no home runs and 37 steals. Ethier has 24, 1 11 and 3. I like the power, you like the speed. I’ll call it a draw if you will.

Pierre is supposed to be so good at this leadoff thing because he takes a lot of pitches and makes things happen. Lee has shown in his marvelous-as-usual post that Pierre is close to the bottom of the team in pitches per at bat. So that doesn’t fly, does it? He has scored 24 of his 34 runs while in the #1 spot. That covers 56 games. Ethier hasn’t batted leadoff, but he’s scored 28 runs just in his 43 games in the 2 slot. Why is that? With 3 SBs? It’s not speed, it’s getting on base. By the way, Furcal scored 34 runs in 31 games batting leadoff. There’s a leadoff hitter.

And no, I’m not going to “chill”, thank you very much. My friend jhall says that he’s just going to sit back and watch them play the hand that Joe deals. He’s a better man than I am, and if you can, then you are too. It’s just not in my nature to sit back. I write letters to the Times occasionally when I’m particularly angry and the good people over there will print one every now and then. It’s cathartic for me. So is complaining on this blog.

You feel they’re even. I don’t. I’m not saying Pierre is a bad player or not performing to his standards or a bad teammate. All I’m saying is that he is the 4th-best outfielder and shouldn’t be playing every day over someone who is one of the top 3 if you want to win.

Got to pull this out.

rally time!

Eric, I understand and share you passion.

If it were Kemp losing out to Pierre or Ethier, I’d be just as upset as you, ’cause the discrepency between Kemp and them is huge.

But the discrepency between Pierre and Ethier is miniscule. We’re just as good with either.

You’re confusing hate with an honest disagreement about who should play between two different types of players. I can only speak for myself but, IMO, “hate” is too strong a word to be applied to someone I don’t know personally. I support Ethier over Pierre or Jones but I support all Dodgers as long as they’re Dodgers.

Oh, Manny please!!!!!

Bravo, Dodgereric, LeeFink!

C’mon MANRAM!!!!!

just great

Andruw Jones could’ve done that 😦

Oh well, we’ll get ’em tomorrow.

just great

Deja vu…


Okay Dodgers.. go out and get ’em tomorrow and Sunday!

can someone tell Kant to take a damn pitch… this is stupid… better team, same results…

Oh well. They need to at least win the next 2 for a split. Hoping for a better outcome tomorrow.

Got to turn this train around.

Well hamlet, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You think the difference is miniscule and I think there is a clear difference. So be it. You’re not calling me names for having my opinion and vice versa. That’s a good thing. Amy and I don’t agree either, and we’re friends here.

Just one request, please, of you and amy and everyone else who might share your point of view: stop saying that I hate Pierre. I don’t. As long as he’s a Dodger, I won’t hate him and I won’t boo him and I won’t celebrate if he messes up. But I don’t have to like it that ……….oh, dead horse, dead horse, whack, whack, whack.

this team can be so damn frustrating. let’s hope kuroda doesn’t lay another egg tomorrow.

I just went back to re-read the best poster on this blog (IMO), leekfink, and I saw a question (request?) from seesky wanting to see Ethier’s stats against southpaws. Here they are:

2006 – 27 for 77 – .351
2007 – 31 for 111 – .279
2008 – 16 for 83 – .183
Career – .273

leekfink and eric, you both had some of the best posts i’ve ever read today.. thank you for that.

Thank you sara! I wasn’t online when you said what you said and I just want to add to what at least a dozen others said. Please, don’t leave. Please.

I don’t know what happened, Sara, but I enjoy your posts and wouldn’t want to see you leave. ):

Hi bluecrew, she was very upset when we got Manny. Look on back to sometime just after the announcement, probably about 2PM yesterday.

I don’t blame Andruw Jones anymore. I blame Joe Torre. I thought this guy was gonna be no nonsense, do what we have to do to win. All I see is a stubborn old man infatuated with the past exploits of over-the-hill vets. Jones starting. Kent batting 4th or 5th. Sweeney still on the team (despite his AMAZING 2-4 performance on the homestand….not). I can’t wait til Delwyn (our only halfway decent bench bat) gets off the DL with his “injury” and Torre tells him he has to go down to AAA because we have 5 outfielders. I don’t even trust what he says anymore. Saying Pierre is gonna get the bulk of the at-bats from here on out. What happened to his “feel”. I call BS. Can we just fast forward through his reign and make Mattingly the manager?

Oh, okay. I knew she wasn’t crazy about him, so that’s understandable, but I hope she doesn’t leave. I know how she feels because I, DNelly and some others would have been really bummed if Andre had been traded and it would have taken while to get over it.

I was right in in my first night lineup except manny and kent had switched cleanup and fifth. Both either and Jp were out. Why, cause Manny right now owns left and Joe feels he needs Jones, a more experienced cf and Kemp a better hitter and lead off in right. Plus, Jp and Andre are lefties that can’t hit for crap against lefties.

Well, it nice to see those veterans and rent a players come through when it really counts: Blake and Kent 0-4, Jones 0-3, Pierre and Sweeney 0-1. And Manny, 2 singles is good, but a rally-killing DP in the clutch ninth negates them. And Joe, wonderful lineup. You got the result that your arrogance and managing incompetence deserve.

thanks guys..

eric, i’m not leaving.. i’m just so ridiculously angry and frustrated and conflicted that i don’t even know how to verbalize my feelings to post right now.. i will continue to read everyone’s wonderful posts, and i will chime in some small thoughts.. but i just don’t know when i’ll feel better, aside from the obvious (when “he” is gone)

bluecrewgirl, i enjoy your posts as well! let’s just say i really despise, and always have, our newest addition.. and i refuse support him, so i haven’t quite figured out how to be supportive of the team without being counterproductive.. i’m working on it =/

Sign me up for the “Please stay, Sara” club! It’s rough when a guy you don’t like joins your team. I used to HATE Jeff Kent. When he was in SF, I used to call their middle infield “Witch” Aurillia (except not “witch”, it was the B dash dash dash dash word) and Jeff…. Well, it’s not important (or appropriate) what I called him… but I found that once he was in our jersey and started producing, all I could do was root for the guy, because he was helping us, on his home team (not the case with Manny, but at least there’s a HUGE Latino/Hispanic/whatever-the-new-word-for-us-is-this-week population here) and wanted to do everything he could to win a ring for us.

Coming here, Kent made it perfectly clear that he was playing for the name on front of the jersey, and that’s what’s important. From all indications today (if they’re to be believed, which is a feat in itself if one believes what Bristol and the Boston Globe have been saying. I’ll make judgements for myself), Manny seems to be on that same page. He seems happy to be here, and he seems like he’s going to do everything he can to help us win, and I think that’s all we can ask for.

I respect your decision if you follow through with it. You’re a better person than me if you can get past what Seinfeld called “rooting for clothes”. I’ve just always felt your opinion was important here, and no one can know what it is if you’re not around anymore.

Hi all…
I know it’s been a long while since I last posted. Between painting and other stuff I haven’t had a chance to post. Actually, I’m using my mom’s laptop. We went to the game tonight. Electric atmosphere; just too bad we couldn’t hit for Kersh. I just hope he doesn’t turn into another one that pitches well enough to win, but no run support. I’ve gotta believe that Manny will help. But even though he grounded into a DP in the 9th, it still was a very electric atmosphere, with Manny representing the winning run!!!

Dnel, are you around? I’m still going to go see Andre tomorrow morning. I’ve got my stuff almost ready for him to autograph. I’m just mad I forgot to bring my camera. Well, I’ve got my cell phone that has a camera, but it’s not that good. Oh, well. I’ll figure something out.

hamlet.nalbandyan – I think that the one key piece is power. As you point out, Pierre playing over Kemp would be awful (though, I should add, my level of confidence that Torre won’t do this at some point is less than zero). But while I think Kemp is better, it’s not all that much. Kemp is slugging .464, Ethier is at .442. Kemp has better speed, so that adds to it. But, if you would not be OK with Pierre playing over Kemp, you have to ask the difference with Pierre.
And the difference is power. Pierre is slugging .320, for an OPS of .648. That’s way less than Ethier’s .779. If you give Pierre credit for stolen bases by adding a base to his total base numbers for each stolen base, and subtracting one for each caught stealing, he’s closer at .746. Still lower than Ethier. And I do not give him full credit for that–first, because stealing bases requires more plays, and second there have been a number of times this season when Pierre does not steal when it helps and steals (and has stolen third) in two out situations where it’s marginally effective at best. Such is the nature of the stolen base, I admit, but it means that you can’t really give full credit. So under that rubric, Ethier is still plainly better, and I think that DodgerEric effectively makes the defensive point. Finally, my point is this–Pierre has peaked. Maybe fallen off a little, and he simply can’t work any harder to get better. Ethier has not, and he is likely to continue to improve.
I also feel compelled to point out a logical fallacy in your argument. You suggest that we are a team that needs to manufacture runs, and thus need to play a “manufacturer” like Pierre (and while Pierre steals bases in a great way, his bunting skills are still not good). But we only need to manufacture runs because we don’t have guys who hit for power. And the reason that we don’t have guys who hit for power is because we play a “manufacturer” like Pierre over a guy with more power like Ethier.
I have nothing against Pierre at all. I sympathize for him in many ways. Here he is, an incredibly hard-working guy, likeable, by all appearances a good teammate, and nice fellow. He is doing pretty much what he was hired to do and what he has always done, though with a little, but significant, drop-off. And he gets a $44 million contract and the next year is replaced in center-field, and then potentially replaced in left, by Ethier at the beginning of the season and by Manny now. It’s sort of unfair because he’s doing what he is supposed to do. It’s not his fault he got a big contract, and I certainly don’t hold that against him, and it’s not his fault that he’s been led to believe by coaches, managers, and GMs that he’s doing exactly what you want on a championship club. If I were in his shoes, I would be incredibly confused and incredibly frustrated. I like Juan Pierre–I just don’t want him in the line-up when there is a clearly better choice.
This is undoubtedly the fault of Ned, for signing him in the first place to a deal that led him to believe his role would always be an everyday centerfielder. But more over it’s Torre’s fault for either not recognizing or not caring that there is a superior option, and not playing that player. The manager has to put his team in the best position to win everyday. Torre continually fails to do that.
There was some talk here about being a manager, and I think Jungar was feeling the same frustration as I was and am, but I don’t think he meant to get personal. Jungar is usually far more articulate than I am, and with better empirical support (even post-baby Jungar), so I think he’s as upset as many of us are.
I know DodgerEric said he could be a manager, but I think it’s a lot tougher than that. I wish I could, but I know I couldn’t. I think that there are parts I could do well–mostly, I could figure out the right 8 guys to go out on the field every day, and by all appearances, Torre cannot. But, it’s true, I couldn’t because I can’t do the things that a good manager does–I couldn’t tell Loney how to hit a slider, I couldn’t work with Kemp on how to run the bases, I couldn’t talk location and pitch selection with Bills. But I have seen very little evidence that Torre has done this part well either. I’ve heard his staff criticize the young players and praise the veterans, even while it is the younger players who are not only playing better, but are better at doing the things that the veterans get praised for. I have seen him unable to turn around a once-great hitter, and seen him continually messing with people’s confidence by benching players who have earned the job, and making out line-ups that don’t reward success. I don’t want me to be the Dodgers manager (though, we would all love to be), but I surely don’t want someone who doesn’t do the basics right.
Jungar–I hope you’re right that Torre will eventually do the right thing. You have a belief in the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, and I admire you for that. Torre, however, has eroded and ended my faith in him. He will have to earn back that trust.

Cpompe1, I know what you mean about painting taking a lot out of you. I need to paint my condo and I bought the paint about a month ago and I’m still trying to get motivated to do it, lol. Have fun meeting Andre tomorrow.

We are back from the game, and I am trying to catch up on reading the comments. Some I read at the game in between innings and before the game, and I tried to post from there, but it wasn’t working. BTW ~ I must have been sitting pretty close to Max because I was on Loge deck closer to home plate. He was Loge deck behind 3rd. Anyhow ~ Be back in a few 🙂 **Nelly/June**

bluecrewgirl – yeah. painting is taking a lot out of me right now. I am looking forward to meeting Andre tomorrow!!! 🙂

So the old guy showed what it takes to win, and our young leftie will get his Cy Young in due time.
Don’t fret people, we will win over the week-end and get right back into the race. And girl, you got alot of passion, that’ what we need.
good night

sorry dnel – I know you’re reading and you’ll see my post asking if you’re here, but I’m in my mom’s bedroom and she is getting ready to go to bed. And my eyes are starting to water. So I’ll go and I’ll try and log in the morning. Goodnight all…

The game was a roller coaster to say the least. When I found out about the lineup, I wasn’t happy, but I had hope that Andre would at least have a role in the game, and in the end he did, and had a great at-bat like always. The Manny thing was okay ~ the place was rockin’ during his every at bat (really everyone got their cheers except for “you know who”), and for the first time I felt it was deserved, and not so much towards Andruw, but to Torre for putting Andruw out there.
However, while I was sitting waiting for the game to begin, I started reading the comments from the previous thread and then this current one. The people in my section were talking about the lineup thinking it was going to be Manny, Matt and Andre, and I had to be the one to break the news and tell them, no, Andruw is in the lineup. This group was livid that Torre would start Andruw instead of Ethier. I gave our standard reason that we know – Johnson is a lefty. The next comment was, “but why Andruw?” Anyhow, while the group was discussing Andruw in the lineup, I was reading the comments stating that Pierre would have most of the duties in Centerfield and therefore, leaving Andre and Andruw left on the bench. The group I was with got more irrate.
So, I noticed a few names I didn’t recognize on this board tonight and some names we haven’t seen in a long time, and the statements they were making about how we react towards certain issues is uncalled for. Well, ITD blog is not the only one that feels this way, Dodger Thoughts blog is not the only one that, The Sons of Steve Garvey blog is not the only one that feels this was, and I think the 55,100 people that were at the stadium pretty much felt the same way ~ Andruw Jones had no place in that starting lineup tonight. They would have rather had Pierre out there, if Ethier was the going to be the one to sit, which most of know is bogus, too.
Anyhow, I was pleased to see everyone get in the game and other than a loss, it was a good all around experience.
eric ~ I feel like you, jhall and enchanted, have become somewhat of mentors to me. You have made me so much more knowledgeable of the game of baseball, on top of all the help and support you have given me in the search to make my classroom rich in baseball knowledge as well. Your comments gave me goose bumps in the middle of all the Manny mania so-to-speak. I was so moved by the things you said, I tried to post immediately but it wouldn’t send. You know I agree 100% of everything you said, and I am so thankful everyday that you are part of this board as well as jhall and enchanted. I think Amy was the one who mentioned this is kind of like a family,and I agree with that statement, so when people come along who start questioning our opinions and attitudes towards this team we love so dearly, I become a little protective of the others who have protected that right to have opinions. We all know we don’t agree on this board, but that’s what makes this group so great ~ we still like each other eventhough some of us have totally opposite views.
leefink – I always love reading what you have to say, which was also very moving, and I am thankful to you also for being part of this board.
There were other wonderful posts today as well, but I can see I have written too much already.
sigh 🙂 Andre looked great tonight eventhough he spent most of the time on the rail. I just had fun watching him eat his sunflower seeds and enjoy a day at the ballpark. I did read the comment he made up above – He is a first class ballplayer – no doubt about it!!! I always knew it ~ I just wish Torre would see it and his talent, but I can go on for another few lines on that topic.
Sorry for the long post – I had a lot to say 🙂

“Of course, you know that this means war……”

Sincere apologies to a true genius, no need to tell you the tune……

You’re a moron, Mister Joe.
You really are a dope.
You’re as clever as a cleaver,
You’re as snappy as bath soap.
Mister Joooooe!

You’re a bad manager
With a really bad plan.

You are clueless, Mister Joe.
Your head’s an empty hole.
Your brain is full of spiders,
You’ve got garlic in your soul.
Mister Joooooe!

I wouldn’t touch you, with a
thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole.

You’re a vile one, Mister Joe.
You have sawdust ‘tween your ears
You said you’re playing Juanpy,
Not young Andre Ethier.
Mister Joooooe!

Given the choice between the two of you
I’d take an acid enema.

You’re a foul one, Mister Joe.
You’re a nasty, wasty skunk.
We thought you were and expert,
How could we be so wrong
Mister Joooooe!

The three words that best describe you,
are, and I quote: “Stink. Stank. Stunk.”

You’re a rotter, Mister Joe.
You’re the king of sinful sots.
Everyone wants ‘Dre on their team
How ‘bout little Juan Pierre?
Mister Joooooe!

Your GM goes out and gets Manny Ramirez
and the first thing you do is to bench your second-best
outfielder, and you don’t
even have the guts to tell him.

You nauseate me, Mister Joe.
With a nauseaus super-naus.
You’re a complete disappointment
Now Bugs Bunny says it’s war
Mister Joooooe!

You’re a three decker saurkraut and toadstool
With arsenic sauce.

eric ~ I am a little speechless about all the things I have read tonight about Torre’s views on our beloved (or not soe beloved) outfielders. How did this get so bad? Is Torre really that out of touch with reality, logic and the fans, and in this case 98% of the fans are correct. This is so very frustrating to say the least.
Awesome song BTW!!!!

CP – yes, I will be there bright and early. I decided to bring my classroom Ethierbear and a printed photo I have of him, and I am going to attach the photo to a copy of the song. I also have my baseball cards to ask if he knows why he is wearing 61 instead of 16. Then, my mom mentioned I should have brought my copy of the Dodger ABC book. I could’ve had him sign Maggie’s page. Oh well, hopefully we will see each other. I will log on in the morning,too. 🙂

Glad you had a good time, DNelly. I was pissed about the lineup last night until I found out Andre was sick. There was almost as much talk on the blogs about Andre not being the 3rd outfielder as there was about Manny coming to town. I am still trying to be hopeful it will all work out in the end and he will be the 3rd starter as he rightfully should. Have fun meeting him tomorrow, or I guess it would be today since it’s past midnight.

dnelly, you know what scares me the most about andre, or any of the “kids” for that matter? i’m scared that all this mis-treatment will make them want to leave us when they have control over the matter.. let’s say that colletti doesn’t screw things up further, and they try to build with this core group of young guys.. what if they’ve felt so unappreciated and disrespected, that they bolt as soon as they hit free agency? sure, winning will solve a lot of that.. hopefully if they win together, many of them will re-sign.. but not all of them.. i think that andre really wants to go back to phoenix.. i think when you see his before the bigs you will feel it too.. as i watched that, i couldn’t help but think that if in the future the d’backs were to make an offer to andre, he wouldn’t refuse it.. i know i’m overanalyzing.. i guess i just love our young guys SO much that i don’t want to lose any of them.. i really do believe they can be great together.. but they need to be kept here, and they need to want to stay here first and foremost..

sara – I understand completely 🙂 It’s beyond comprehension and it’s only seems to be getting worse and not better. I am kind of on the border with the Manny thing right now, but I am very angry over what is happening to our best all around outfielder, Andre. Also, that dbacks triple tonight would have maybe been a double if Andre and Matt were the two out there. I am just thankful Andre is the classy ballplayer he is because going through something like this and coming out of it still a good person is going to be remarkable to say the least.

bluecrewgirl – I knew you would be mad about the lineup. I was hoping you would find out why rather than sit there through the whole game.
sara – I don’t think it is on here in the hotel room. I have known that information for a while that he has always wanted to play for the dbacks. Amy and Acardona were talking about the episode on here today and totally making me jealous LOL!!! I know,sara, I have asked about that before- at what point are they going to say, this isn’t worth it. Do you think this might have anything to do with why Russell is reluctant to sign a long term contract? I would have a hard time not seeing him, Andre, Matt and James on the field everyday together for years to come.

yeah, all of torre’s quotes, especially in the gurnick article, were about as off-the-wall and insane as they can get. i was getting angrier and angrier with each quote.. none of it made any sense. he cannot truly believe the things he says. no one can truly believe the things he says.

I haven’t read all the articles yet, but from the reactions, I can only imagine. For what he is going through, he sure does seem pretty happy. He was always out on the rail eating his sunflower seeds, talking and seeming to have a good time. I never once saw Pierre until he came up to bat. The funny thing about tonight’s game, is that with the exception of my shortstop and 2nd baseman, I got to see my whole fantasy team played on the same field tonight (live) – that was very strange.

i think russell is reluctant to sign because he is willing to accept the risk of injury to ensure that he gets his full, true value.. the closer he gets towards arbitration and free agency, the more he will be rewarded as long as his game continues to progress.. i would have to imagine that the direction of the team is important to him as well. so while that is not his primary reason for holding out, i believe that it factors in to his decision.. this is why they need to start locking up the guys one by one.. i think most of them would be inclined to sign if they realize they are sticking together.. if russell isn’t ready, then start with loney.. at least that’s what i hope would happen..

that is strange dnelly.. it means you have a bunch of dodgers and d’backs..

nelly and sara, your fear of players leaving is a real possibility. It’s the normal course of business in sports now. How many players play for the same team their entire career? But poor treatment, real or not, will only accelerate the move.

One of these days I’m going to spring for one of those game jerseys, but I’m so afraid of the guy leaving that I’m going to make it a 32 or 22 so that I won’t be out there wearing a Gagne or Greene.

I hope so too!! All day yesterday I kept thinking the fact that they didn’t give away Andre or Matt meant that they wanted this group of young players to stay together. I am still holding onto that thought, and maybe Andre knows that as well, which is why he is taking he current situation in stride.

I read the reasoning behind Russell’s reluctance a while ago, but I’m not having any luck in recalling it. I know it didn’t have anything to do with injuries though.

I got my hand up. Put me down as a member of the “Torre is the wrong manager for this team,” club. Irrelevant to discuss whether he’s a Hall of Famer. He’s still the wrong guy to lead this club. Ned should be horse-whipped for the Pierre and Jones contracts, but that’s another story. The last two weeks have seen the Dodgers play their most inspired, intense, heady baseball. Not surprisingly, that surge was spearheaded by the one-two punch of Kemp-Ethier leading off the game. They both gotten rave reviews from Grandpa Joe and Donny Baseball. And now Grandpa gets a gold nugget in Ramirez, but he still doesn’t see what he’s already discovered. Namely, that with 50+ games remaining, all the politics and contracts and whining have to take a back seat to winning. Folks, it’s getting late. Pierre and Jones can stew for all I care. The offense and defense that both Ethier and Kemp bring to the dance means they start with Manny.

yeah eric, i have a russell jersey.. but i know the fear about your jersey player leaving is real. i had loduca, izturis, piazza stuff.. can’t wear it anymore.. i got a russell one because i love him so much and want to support him, and common sense tells me he’s a franchise player.. but i would have to say, sporting a retired number or a hall of famer is definitely a safer bet in this age of sports..

eric – How are you doing? Yes, I am not expecting them to stay long term, especially with our Dodgers history of players leaving, and in some cases, I wouldn’t blame them one bit, Andre being the perfect example right now.

if you ever recall the reasoning eric, please share.. i don’t remember reading anything definitive.. and i am definitely interested in this particular topic.

Kalhi ~ We have waited so long for Torre to see this light, and we thought he had, and now, it’s all going back to the same old – I’m playing the vets because they’ve been there. The postgame show I was listening to on the way home was everything we are talking about on this board. Everybody (except a few, I know) think the same exact way – why is this so hard to undersand? It is so frustrating because it’s not like our view is in the minority. It is quite the opposite. Not one caller called in and said they were glad to see Jones in the lineup, not one.

sara – eric’s finding the information, you know that don’t you? LOL!!!!

I know hindsight is always correct, but I think
Kuo is a much better bridge to Broxton than Chan Ho. Kuo can make a line-up look real bad. He’s a power pitcher, better for late innings than a finesse guy like Park.

sara – They are showing tonight’s game on fsn prime ticket. Is that the same channel that “Before the Bigs” would be on?

You know, if you have a liking for a player enough to name your loggin after him, I’d go ahead and do it. No problemo. I’ve just got so many over the years that I don’t want to insult any of them, should they come over for dinner someday! 🙂

Let’s see; Wally Moon, Tommy Davis, Sandy Koufax, Maury Wills, Don Drysdale, Jim Brewer, Bobby Valentine, Bill Buckner, Steve Garvey, Steve Yeager, Reggie Smith, Orel Hershiser, Mike Scioscia, Mike Piazza, Eric Karros, Fernando Valenzuela, Kirk Gibson, Shawn Green, Paul LoDuca, Eric Gagne, MartinLoneyKempRussellEthierBillingsleyKershawBroxton. Whoa, wouldn’t that be an interesting one?

Hey, I think I just thought of it. A long-term contract would last beyond a player like Martin’s first couple of free agent years. There were a couple of really young players that did just that this spring. It was probably Martin’s agent that started thinking that they might be missing out on some serious money down the line in a trade for some long-term security.

sara – yes, I have 4 dbacks ( one on dl) and 3 Dodgers on my fantasy team. My dbacks are Reynolds, Jackson and Snyder. (Justin Upton is on dl, but I was able to put Jackson in his spot with Ethier and Kemp). My other Dodger is Loney. Russell was the first one drafted out of my group – didn’t stand a chance to get him. LOL!!!

My favorite quote of the day:
What do you think of Joe Torre? “I played a lot against him. I’ll let you know in a month.”

I with you, Manny. I’m not sold either.

I remember when Magic Johnson signed an absolutely ridiculous contract at one point. It was $25 million for 25 years. It was way more money than anyone ever thought of, kind of like Arod’s was (and still is). It wasn’t more than a year or two later when it became obvious that Magic and his agent made a huge mistake. Contracts for marginal players were already getting bigger than his.

Kuo went 1 2/3rds Thursday, kahli. I don’t think they’re too keen on him back-to-back. But I agree with you, he’s just flat-out nasty.

yeah dnelly, they are showing the replay right now on the same channel that before the bigs will play on.. hopefully this means you’ll be able to see andre!

That’s funny eric!!! BTW – on our way here today, she couldn’t help talking about how funny you were this morning. You,jhall, obi and scott had her laughing so hard. She was reading the comments out loud, and I could tell who was who by what you guys were saying. Talk about personality. And I was able to pick out the few times the comments were from enchanted because of his personality that comes through when he comments. It’s funny how that works. To be able to read someones personality. I was explaining to her how much baseball history you knew, and she thought that was great!!! I found three more books today when we stopped in Bakersfield. They were two about all the ballparks and I am not recalling the other one right now, but I’m sure it was a good one.

So are you telling me I have to wait until the game is over – LOL!!!

eric, that is a fantastic list of dodger greats, and i think you would be fine with any number of those players for your jersey.. but i get also not wanting to insult anyone.. it’s a tough decision..

i think you’re right about the money down the line.. if you wait until you hit arbitration then when you do have a long term deal in place, you’ve earned yourself a few extra years of big payroll.. i think i remember russell saying that whether he’s interested right now or not, the fact that the dodgers even inquired about an extention shows how much they respect him.. and that made him feel good. the dodgers will be ready whenever russell is ready.

Yeah, dodgereric, they wouldn’t pitch Kuo back to back games. I spaced. I didn’t watch the game tonight so I don’t know how I would have felt when Park came in. Probably OK with it. But why has Beimal disappeared? I don’t think he and Torre are homies.

Kalhi ~ Beimel came in for one batter, his normal when it comes to Torre 🙂

I got a feeling Manny and Frank will agree on a contract this winter. The excitement he generates (marketing $$$$), the huge Hispanic population of L.A., the freed-up money from Nomar, Kent, Lowe, and Furcal, the fact that the Dodgers need a star, these all seem to point to it. Moving Pierre will help a lot, too.

oh no, don’t wait for the game. i don’t think they’re showing it after the game. i just checked the tivo guide, and it’s not scheduled to replay again until sunday at 12:30pm. sorry 😦

They’ve used Kuo on consecutive days three times so far this year. I know – analeric.

I would have loved to have been a fly in that car, listening to the two of you.

If you can stand more reading recommendations, I have 3 more.

The companion book to Ken Burn’s Baseball series. It cost me a pretty penny when it first came out, but maybe it’s dropped since then. One of these days I’m going to get the soundtrack of that. I remember Carly Simon singing a version of “Take Me Out To The Ballgame” that included a lead-in verse. I loved it.

“Roadside Baseball” by Chris Epting (Sporting News Books) If you travel by car, it’s amazing what’s out there for you.

A Dodger book, of course. “The Dodgers” by Bruce Chadwick and David M. Spindel (Abbeville Press) Memories and Memorabilia from Brooklyn to LA.

You know,too ~ this is two days in a row that Ethier has come off the bench and has gotten on base. This in some way may play into a disadvantage for him because they may see this as an everyday role for him. BTW ~ We had a bet on who would come in to pitch hit in the 8th pretty much knowing it was going to happen. We were shocked to see Ethier, but then we saw Sweeney come out of the dugout and take his spot in the on-deck circle. So, I guess the bet was off because they both came out. lol!!!

eric, your magic reference is right on point.. i remember last year when we were playing the mets.. they were talking about david wright, and how he signed early.. and how the mets had him locked up for like 5 mil a year, and how much less valuable players were getting more money from free agency.. contracts are just getting outrageous now, and you could see why players want to wait to make sure they get their full value..

sara ~ I will be at the game 😦 really it’s good to be at the game, sad that I will miss the episode.

The problem with signing Manny is the same as Lowe – they both have Boras for an agent. He’ll hardball for a 4-year deal and we’ll be paying the last couple of years for a player that almost for sure won’t be producing anymore. Like I said before, I could be the field manager. I have no doubts about that. I probably wouldn’t last very long. I’d junk the 100 pitch thing right away. Right after posting the lineup without regards to salary. HOWEVER, I wouldn’t want the GM job. To have to balance the pros and cons of long-term contracts, that would drive me nuts.

One other thing about a contract like the one the Dodgers offered to Martin. If I were the agent, I’d wonder if it was the right thing for my client if the team wanted to do it.

eric ~ It was pretty funny!!! Obi’s Jones and Pierre scenarios were hilarious, and then scott was on a good role today,too. You, jhall and enchanted are always funny because of the way you bounce off each other, but boy, obi and scott were especially funny today (yesterday), and then jungar was in there too, happy at the time (not so happy now I’m sure) – LOL!!!

Eric ~ where can we sign you up to be manager? – serious!

eric, i think russell’s agent advised him not to, but did warn about the risk of an injury..

dnelly, i will be at the game too. i’ll see if i can get you a copy. then you can watch it on your own time..

You know what’s worse than seeing Andruw strikeout twice during tonight’s game? Watching it again on TV. It looks even worse ~ LOL!!!

Thank you sara ~ that would be great!! It sounds like a great episode from what you, Amy and acardona described.

eric, i’m in favor of you being manager too.. but with all the money they paid torre, you know that even if you field a .700 winning percentage.. they’d eventually bench you for torre again because you know, he’s been there, and get’s paid a lot..

eric ~ thanks for the book recommendations again 🙂

LOL!!!! That’s funny sara and probably sad but true LOL!!!

yeah, it’s been a real roller coaster of a day. From the euphoria of the Manny Day to the announcement of the Pierre/Ethier thing to us getting the lead and losing it and getting that fairy tale look at the finish. Up and down……

I’m going to turn in. This might be my last post for a while. Tomorrow, er, later today, I’ve got to prepare for a week of summer camp with my Troop. It starts early Sunday and we’ll get back sometime on Saturday. My son and I are going to get that flag off his flagpole in about 8 hours. We’re replacing it with the one that came with the pole and he’s sending this one to his buddy up in Oregon. Then it’s yardwork and packing until later when I take my wife out for a nice dinner. Posting may not be in my future until I get back. By the way, he’s completed his last merit badge required to make Eagle. Just a matter of tidying up the paperwork and having several reviews. Man, he’s almost there. 🙂

Have a wonderful time eric!!!!!! That is wonderful to hear about Matt!! I am sure you are very proud about that. Once again, have a fabulous time!!!

eric, that’s great about your son.. my brother was an eagle scout.. have fun on your trip. be safe.

dnelly, i’m going to turn in soon too. i hope meeting andre goes great for you tomorrow. i want to hear all about it. good night!

Thanks, and you bet I am! He’s going to make someone a great husband. Your daughter might want to look him up in about 10 years. Yeah, 26. Just the right age to start thinking about marriage………

Watch after the boys for me while I’m away. You know how they get when the cats’ away. I’ve got the songs all caught up and the first thing I’ll do is get the new ones in there, so look for that little clue.

Have a safe trip back home and…….


It’s funny you should say that. She didn’t realize that they were the same age until the other day. She had seen the pictures when you posted them for the flag ceremony. Anyhow, she was talking like a typical teenage girl – funny coincidence you should bring that up.

Wally and beav – I know those two, always getting into mischief. Thanks and you have a safe trip, too. And, I will try to get the next two wins for you.

hey nelly i just posted on your facebook… and get us a couple wins will you.

Good morning everyone. To all of those fortunate enough to get to attend the game last night, I am very envious. Oh well, the Dodgers will be in St Louis next week and I’ll be there Hopefully for all 3 games. My son has season tickets for the Cards and he’s a big Cards fan, so is always interesting when I attend the games with him and root for the Dodgers..
I really wonder what’s so interesting about the inside of Torre’s colon as that’s where his head is most of the time. It makes me sick to think we’re going to see puny arm Pierre in center most of the games. He’s definitely going to cost us some games defensively before the season is over. Torre obviously has no idea who his best players are and no idea who to play to get the most from his players to win games. I agree with the blogger last evening in that I too could do a better job than Torre running this team. It doesn’t take an Albert Einstein to see who the best players are offensively and defensively but he has a love affair with Pierre and is going to play him no matter what it costs the Dodgers. I’ll cringe every time a ball is hit to center knowing Pierre is not capable of throwing the runner out at any base. Even with the acquisition of Manny, Torre is going to cost the Dodgers a chance at the playoffs.

Torre does not know how to handle his players and it’s going to cost us.
Hello, Earth to Torre, play your best players.

Good morning ITD!!!! Tough loss last night.

Just want to chime in on the Phew-Ethier debate. Oh wait, there is no debate. Ethier is clearly a much better player than Phew. It is not close/miniscule Hamlet. If Phew is so good, how come no other team wants him at any price? There is loads of interest in Ethier by other teams.
Case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice song Eric. LOL!!!
Great posts Leek and Eric….
Nelly, glad your having fun. We need these next two games to split this series. Especially at home.
Eric, I am sitting back and watching it play out, however I don’t like it very much. I just keep hoping that I am watching JoKo put the noose around Neds’ neck. I’d like to be the one to kick the chair out from under him. LOL!!!!!

Well said Bob!!!

Good Morning jhall!! How are you doing this morning? I read Eric’s long post last night in between innings and thought about what you and enchanted were thinking, too. I guess Joe really doesn’t “get it.” We, at one time, thought he did, but I guess “common sense and logical thingking” was just too much for Joe to handle. I can’t believe we have to sit back and watch Ethier come of the bench night after night. He has done wonderfully in that role, and it is probabably to his disadvantage. He will probably remain in that role. And not to mention watch Pierre in left field. I guess we know one ITDer that will be happy about that. But you are right. All we can do is sit back and watch. I am glad to hear from you. I was thinking about all of you yesterday, especially during the game when Andruw and then Sweeney coming up to bat. LOL!!!

Good Morning Boblee! Great post this morning!! I am sure you are counting how many days until the NFL opening day. I am sure many ITDers are counting now after last night’s Dodgers lineup, and the ensuing articles stating JP in centerfield (absolutely ridiculous!!) in any way, shape or form. It’s the reason we got Andruw, so we wouldn’t have to suffer with JP in centerfield anymore. Now what?

manfromchina ~ I haven’t been on my facebook in ages. It’s not something I look at daily. Thanks for thinking about me out there. The Manny stuff was fun, but the lineup and Joe’s approach to the game is annoying and frustrating as h*ll and that’s probably and understatement.

Hey Nell’!!!! I was out last night at a party so I didn’t get to see the game or post. Just catching up on the conversation from last night. I am still amazed at the PWB’s that come on and say how much they dislike this blog and that they don’t frequent it because of that. LOL!!
First of all, they must be pretty full of themselves to actually think that anyone really cares what they think of the blog. Secondly, if it is so bad, why do they keep coming back?! Seems a bit incongruent doesn’t it. Oh well, I guess there are alot of losers out their. I guess if we can make you feel better about your pitiful existence, Your Welcome!!!!

Hope the extra rest helps Kuroda. We need him to pitch well to make a run at this thing. I am a little worried about him.

We basically had a (team) meeting (on Thursday),” Ethier said. “He told us to be prepared for anything. Just be ready, because you don’t know what situations are going to come up. He is going to do whatever gives us the best opportunity to win.”
So does Andre really think the best opportunity to win that game last night was starting Jones? I really am impressed with him and how is handling this obviously ridiculous situation. I am really starting to think he needs to be traded in order to get out of this madness and go to a team that will use him like he should be used. LOL!!!

I’d like to see the Indians get Ethier.. They recognize and acknowledge good talent. He would be a great fit in their outfield with Grady. Plus, I’d get to see him play alot.

jhall ~ I hope you had fun at the party. I am sure it was better than watching the game. The Manny stuff was fun, but the rest was just frustrating. I have to say,that was the most frustrating part about reading the comments last night was for that exact same reason you stated. If you don’t like it, then don’t post. We don’t care!! They get upset at us for stating our opinions, but in turn, aren’t they stating theirs? That is what is great about this board. We all have different opinions and different ways of stating those opinions – songs, stats, tv/movie plots, jokes, and just pure information. We have a pretty fun group if I can say so myself.

jhall ~ that would be fabulous!!! Ethier and Sizemore in the same outfield -Wow!! I have a feeling the Dodgers are going to regret what they are doing to him someday, just like many former Dodgers are doing now.

Yep Nelly, could be. If I were him, I’d be itching to get out and go somewhere that they appreciate talent and consistant production. He’d be playing everyday without question on most every other team in baseball.

jhall ~ As long as he doesn’t go to the gnats – LOL!!!

Morning jhall!

First, my compliments to Eric and Lee, and you too nells – fantabulous posts. Lee, your first post is exactly how I feel. I’ve a general malaise and growing apathy towards this season because management makes it impossible to care, and I don’t see it getting any better the next two years (at least.) No need for me to expound the reasons as they’ve been eloquently stated in the previous posts.

Someone asked early on this thread why it was so quiet on here during the early evening. Speaking for myself, I didn’t like the tone of some of the posters. Root for who you want, make arguments in their favor, but when you start to demean the other posters for thier opinions, you’ve crossed the line, and I for one just didn’t feel like putting up with that kind of bull(censored.)

As far as the game/season, JoJo’s been given enough tools to do the job, but he doesn’t know how to use them. For a long while it was funny, frustrating, and annoying. Now its just annoying.

I’m tired of being annoyed.

Sorry nells, didn’t see you before I posted. And a good morning to you as well!!

Hey Beav!! I know what you mean!!! Geez!!!!
Nelly, if he went to the G’nats, I would cry!!!!

Good morning enchanted!!!! Thanks, and I totally agree with what you said, and the fact that it happened to eric even made it worse, just like when it happened to you.
This whole season has come down to kind of a numbing affect – very apathetic. I actually was not upset they lost. I felt it was almost deserved for putting out that starting lineup. I am not kidding when I tell you the section I was in was livid to see Andruw out there, and when people are hoping to see JP out there instead of Andruw, knowing Ethier is not coming in any time soon, something is completely wrong with that picture, and Joe is an idiot for not “getting it”

It’s okay enchanted ~ you know you are okay with me :). It was funny yesterday when my mom was reading the blog while I was driving, and the minute the comment started, I knew it was you. I told eric that last night, but the personalites of the regulars on this board really come through even listening to another person reading it.

You can tell my posts by a couple of lines, and eric can tell my songs by a couple of lines. That can’t be good! LOL!!

It is a good thing, enchanted ~ It means you are thought of in the most highest regard because people are actually looking forward to what you have to say. enchanted ~ it a very good thing 🙂

enchanted ~ it’s kind of like a favorite author or song writer. You know by the first few lines or paragraphs why you like that author or songwriter. 🙂

Well, we are heading out towards Culver City in my quest to meet Andre. Have a wonderful day, boys, and I will check in later this afternoon before the game.

Its going to be weird. In the past when a player left that was traded or especially if they left as a FA, I basically said good riddance and rooted for whomever came onto the team. With our young guys, starting now with LaRoche, I’m finding I’m really going to be pulling for them to make it big no matter who they play for. I believe sara said that she feels our young guys will bolt the first chance they get. I think many will too if this management team is still in place. I feel like I’ve got so much invested in these guys that I suppose if/when that happens, baseball will become like hockey and football to me in that I don’t care much who wins or loses, but I will follow our young guns wherever they are.

Have a great time nells! Give Dre a big wet sloppy from all of us at ITD!! (Well maybe a hug would be better.)

Have fun Nell’. Give Andre a big ITD “hello and good job”.

Good morning ITD boys and girls,
Sorry for the short stay last night

dnel – I hope you’re reading this in the car. I’m going to be heading out by 10 AM. Look for me; I’ll be wearing my Ethier jersey and blue capris. Remember, I’m Japanese, so look for shoulder-length black hair and glasses. My mom was going to go, but she has a funeral to go to today, so I’ll be by myself. Hope to see ya there!

dnelly, sorry I didn’t get to respond before you left. I agree with you. Andre is handling this situation very good and I commend him for being the terrific ballplayer he is and he’s just not getting a chance to show all what he can do. I would hate to see him go to another club but I also want to see him play to his potential. At this point he’s not going to get to do that at the present time. I hope he can hang in there till things can change for him.
We need this game tonight as it would hurt to go 4 behind the D’backs. Where’s our spark and will to win this thing? Fire them up Manny, you can do it.

I think I pretty much feel like enchanted, jhall and Nells describe it since the Mannymania started. I’m not surprised, because I generally share your opinions and feelings, having gotten to know you all at a distance.
I basically feel somewhat dull and non-caring at the moment. We’ve all been so passionate since the season began and couldn’t understand why management couldn’t take the simple “best player” approach and simply develop our team for a strong and promising future.

Manny has been thrown in here as a diversion circus act, and everyone has a little different take on it. McCourt has gotten another playing piece with somebody else paying the tab, and it fits his Boston fixation to bring in another notable from the Red Sox, no matter how the Sox now feel about him. Torre will now have his chance to play the veterans card once again, and he’ll let Ethier wait for next year to make his case (which of course has already been amply made to everyone but Torre and his staff) – that is if they don’t go out and actually sign Manny for the longer term, in which case I suppose they will trade Ethier in the off-season. I don’t have that much trouble with LaRoche being traded, because I think that DeWitt has proven his case for being a major leaguer, and he will hopefully be around for a long time. I do wish Andy well and will occasionally watch to se how he’s doing. As for Ned, this “can’t miss deal” is supposedly saving his job, and I hope NOT. After all it makes his misspent millions on Andruw and Pierre much more glaring, not to even bring up Schmidt again. I suppose, if we make the playoffs, he will keep his job, and that almost makes me wish that we would fail to do that this year.

As for Manny himself, I’ll just wait and see. I am from a generation that still thinks a contract is a contract, and you stick with it when it is no longer appealing to you, just as when you enjoyed the benefits when you signed it. Manny may provide us with a couple of good months, but I find the so-called “character” missing here with the antics that he pulled in Boston in order to avoid his two option years at what $20 million each?

I’m still totally disgusted with our management, and I don’t see any principle at work here, just as there’s never been a defined plan for where this team is going an how. Somewhere along the line McCourt will have to discover that gaining attendance and revenue will still depend on providing the fans with a good and exciting product on the field long term rather than creating a short term circus atmosphere. So I hope that McCourt and company enjoy their Manny orgasm now, because their futures may be somewhat limp in the long run the way they’re going about running this team.

Good morning. today is another day!!! I hope the brilliant Kuroda shows up tonight and get a win.
All the ladies going to see Andre. Have fun. What an exciting day it must be for all of you. I want to hear all the stories when you get back.
Eric- I know you don’t hate Juan. Sometimes people “Hate on” him. There is a term difference that I sometimes use. ‘Hating On’ just means people give him too much grief for what he does. And I am also glad that we are friends 🙂
Sara- i’m glad we are still apart of your life.
Now I’m going back to continue those 15 hrs I was speaking of.
GO Dodgers!!!

Messagbear- First off I respect your opinion and agree with most of your points. It is a circus over one particular player, and it takes away from the baseball aspect. True.
But if it takes Manny getting here to breath new life and excitment into our clubhouse and to our city, then I don’t see that as a bad thing. Reviving the Dodger spirit, though a guy that most people don’t like, is better than the low attendance this year and the non supporting people in LA. I’m going to use the “Any PR is good PR” approach. At least the Dodgers are now on people’s minds and in the news for actually good reasons.
You can have your tifs and disagreements with management, but I am happy that there is a buzz for Dodger baseball at the moment!

“Of course, I’d like to think that Clayton’s future will take a different path than Edwin’s did, but only time will tell.”

Great way to say “I hope Colletti doesn’t trade him for a crappy relief pitcher.” Jackson is 7-7 with a 4.20 ERA, although not with the most convincing peripherals in the world (and it’s hard to have a losing record for the rays right now …. yeah, that’s right). But not bad for a third starter.

So uh, Andre is not a starter again…Stupid stupid stupid. And it was beautiful to see Man Ram AND Jones dog that ground ball for a stand up triple yesterday…

so i had a dream lastnight
i was at my house hanging out with russell martin and we were talking about the lineups
so russy says “yeah i cant stand how the curacao cow is always in the line up”
i paused for a second and got really excited and i said wait…do you read the blog…then i was like ok you dont have to tell me who, but do people on the team read the blog.
then russ was like……………..” you know boblee16 (which is actually boblee14)?” i said yeah…then he said very nonshalantly………………………………………………………………………………….”thats andre”
that was a great dream

Andre is hitting .193 against lefties. But I agree he should be in there everyday against righties. JP hits lefties better. Andruw hits no one.

That’s funny Manfromchina. Good Dream.
What is weirder is that I had a Dream, but I was hanging out with Andre Ethier. He was working at a Bar and I kept asking him when Matt was going to show up. But Andre and I were friends and somehow knew each other an a personal level. Matt did show up but he was Bald with a over grown gote, and was with 3 friends, got 3 beers and went up stairs somewhere. When I went to go find him my friend called me on my real cell phone and woke me up before I could find Matt!
Boblee- Andre is it really you???

lol 🙂

I wouldn’t mind platooning Pierre and Ethier, but I doubt Joe would do it considering that would mean he would have to sit Jones and his 18.1 mil every day. Manny-Pierre-Kemp outfield could be the worst defensive outfield in history.

saw this someplace and thought it was funny as well as sad.

Acquire Juan Pierre to play CF because Drew opts out
Realize Juan Pierre can not play CF
Sign Andrew Jones to play CF and a power bat
Realize Andrew Jones is the worst player alive
Trade for Manny because Andrew sucks
Andrew Jones ends up on the bench
Juan Pierre ends up in center field
Trade LaRoche and others for 2 months of Manny to make up for horrible offense of Jones/Pierre
Start the game with Manny, Kemp, and the guy that Manny is trying to make up for in the outfield.
Sit Ethier.

nice perspective jungar. gotta love baseball.

Updated: August 2, 2008

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We’ve now entered a new waiver period in Major League Baseball, one in which a player’s contract may not be assigned to another team unless he first clears major league (revocable) waivers. Players already have begun clearing waivers. Example: A player placed on waivers on Wednesday and not claimed (within two business days) would have cleared on Friday and thus would be eligible to be traded in this period. A player who is claimed on waivers may be pulled back by his current team. The team may place him on waivers a second time to get him through, but the waivers become irrevocable and the player will be assigned to the claiming team.

With those technicalities out of the way, here are a few players who might find new addresses this month:

Players who should clear waivers

Andruw Jones

Andruw Jones, CF, Los Angeles Dodgers: I’m guessing both he and Juan Pierre will sail through waivers without anyone thinking about putting in a claim, as both are expensive and having horrible years. After they clear, Jones should be the player easier to trade; he has just one year left on his deal (as opposed to three for Pierre) and less money for the Dodgers to have to offer to remove him from their roster. I’ve also speculated that the Dodgers might outright Jones off their 40-man roster and assign him to Triple-A Las Vegas. It won’t clear them of the financial responsibility, but it would free up the wasted spot on the 25-man roster. Jones has looked slow, tired and out of shape all season, but if the Dodgers eat more than half his salary, they might find a team willing to buy low and see whether he will put up a better contract year in 2009 than he did in ’07.

Why has nobody been posting the past couple days???

Well I had a 4 hour erection over the trade and those commercials say to go to a doctor if that happens, so I have been in the hospital pitching a tent the last 2 days. lol jk

swood, i think everyone’s been shocked, numbed and just watching everything play out. Plus, the media’s doing an awful lot of talking for all of us, tenfold.

(that doesn’t mean the media knows what the hell they’re talking about, but not like we didn’t know that. This means you, Rosenthal)

manfromchina, You have to lay off that hard stuff. If I was andre I would kick Jojo’s butt for not playing me every day.

OMG!!!!! i finally met Andre Ethier!!! it was so cool i got some picture with him and i met Dnelly and cpo too! it was so nice to meet you guys (or i should say girls haha) man it was so cool i was shaking a little and i totally didnt get to say what i wanted to say to him cause they were rushing us through there like crazy!! but i FINALLY did it!!! i met him!!! and man was he HOT!!!! haha

“To me, Juan certainly deserves to play,” Torre said. “Juan, for me, will play the bulk of the time. That is taking nothing away from Ethier, but Matty right now is impressive for me in how he goes about his business.

It’s official. Joe Torre is NOT the man to manage the Dodgers. Stubborn doesn’t even do justice to him. It’s WAY BEYOND stubborn. Idiocy comes a bit closer. Joe must have had his eyes closed when Ethier hosed the Gnat at the plate to save Billingsley’s shutout. And to all the Pierre loveres out there. It’s Joe, not Pierre, who’s making Pierre haters out of L.A. fans. Pierre is what he is…a very NICEEEEEEEEEE player. But clearly Ethier cleans his clock when it comes to talent.

3 walks/13 runs/7 rbi/in last 133 ABs
12 walks/21runs/18rbi/ in last 133 AB

Just in 130 Abs we couldnt use 9 extra walks or 19 extra runs. thats just 31 games. Think of how many games we loose by 1. Or better yet, think how many were gonna.

“To me, Juan certainly deserves to play,” Torre said. “And for some reason only known to me, Andre Ethier does not. ”

I am breaking up with you, but it’s not you, it’s me. Your great. I just have to do this, it’s for the best for both of us. I don’t want to hurt you.

oh yeah the top stat line is ethier and the bottom stat line is Pierre at least in Dodger land. But in reality Ethier (not even counting the defense is about a half a run difference a game)

Were gonna loose the pennant if we keep Kent in 4 hole and Pierre in 1 hole.

jungar – unbeknownst to us, the pennant was lost when Frank hired Joe to manage.

The pennant was losted once Arizona got Haren. Best 1-2 punch in baseball with Webb and Haren. There middle relief is a little better then ours too. If we had Sammy and put Broxt back in the 8th inning, then Id say we are even.

Apparently it was lost when O’Malley sold the team if you want to be realistic.

You know, I’ve respected Torre this whole time. Time in, time out, I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, as his reputation preceeded him.

I like Juan Pierre. He’s an awesome guy, I’m glad he’s on the team. If we’re gonna win, Juan’s going to play a role in it. When he’s on the basepaths, he’s trouble. And one would be hard-pressed to find someone who works harder at the game he loves than Juan.


To think that Juan Pierre is a bigger asset than Andre Ethier at this time is DEAD WRONG. I’m sorry, Joe, can’t defend you anymore. EVERYBODY in the world can see that. You’ll hear that on ESPN, CNN, Univision, NipponTV, and probably in Swahili and Tagalog too. This trade only works if Ethier is in the outfield with Manny and Kemp. WE NEED EVERY BIG BAT IN THE LINEUP TO GET MANNY TO SEE BETTER PITCHES. IT’S LIKE TAKING A TIRE OFF YOUR CAR, THEN PUTTING A DONUT SPARE IN ITS PLACE, AND EXPECTING TO DRIVE CROSS COUNTRY WITH ALL FOUR TIRES INTACT!!!!!!

I have NEVER been as disappointed in a man wearing a Dodger uniform as I am in Joe Torre right now. And that’s saying a HELL of a lot, through Milton Bradley, Darryl Strawberry not coming to fruition, Eric Davis’s injury plauged term, Grady Little’s lacksadaisical approach, ANYONE!!! Yes, Juan deserves to play. But with Andre’s record right now, Juan doesn’t deserve to start. AND YOU, MR. TORRE, DON’T DESERVE TO ROB US OF HAVING A CHANCE IN THE POSTSEASON. Yes, we have Manny now, and our chances are better, but last I checked, in the time the trade was announced to now, we’ve lost two games in the standings. All against the team we HAVE TO BEAT if we are going to have any chance in October. And that’s just Arizona. We’re not EVEN talking about Chicago, Philly and the other big clubs. Meanwhile Dre’s benched the last few days ’cause everyone keeps their fingers crossed that Andruw Jones will return to half of what he once was.

I don’t blame Juan or Druw. If I was a Dodger, I’d want to start everyday too. Especially if I’ve won a World Series before, and know what it’s like to come up big in October. But we hired Joe to be our navigator. We hired Joe to make the RIGHT decisions for the team. Meanwhile, he’s making terrible decisions as we’re watching the vets injure themselves, get back to 75%, and tell Joe they’re ready to play again.

If this keeps up, I’m sure it won’t be long before Manny starts wishing he’d kept his mouth shut and stayed in Beantown. He thought Boston’s front office was bad, he ain’t seen nothing yet.

Okay, enough venting. C’MON, LET’S GET THESE WINS!!!!!!!!!! GO DODGERS!!!!!!! LET”S GET TO OCTOBER!!!!!

True enough jungar.

(and you don’t even know how many profanities I erased from that post, heheh. It had so many asterisks when I first wrote it, it looked like a backdrop for Star Trek)

Manny’s a great hitter, and he’s better than anyone we have, but I’m afraid that the circus that goes along with him might distract the team from winning games. In hindsight, maybe Bay would have been a better fit if winning ball games was the object. Also Torre has been in the game a long time and I respect him for that, but what he sees in Slappy over Ethier I just don’t get it. I would not be surprised to see this team tank now with Manny.

Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Martin, C
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Blake, 3B
Berroa, SS
Kuroda, RHP

Before I get all serious once again, it was great meeting Andre today! I was one of the early birds, mostly because I am not familiar with so-cal, and I wasn’t sure where we would end up. We were only allowed to have one thing signed, so I decided to have him sign my classroom bear named “Ethierbear.” They got video of my bear so it may show up during the game sometime. I mentioned that I was a blogger both on his blog and ITD. He asked if I enjoyed his blog, and I said I comment on their frequently. They rushed us through to fast to go into too much detail, but he was very nice, and yes, he was quite handsome to say the least.
However, eventhough I was excited about finally meeting Andre, it was even better meeting some of the fellow female bloggers on this board. The whole time I was standing next to Crzblue’s (Emma’s) friend Eric, and didn’t find out until later when one of her other friends remembered that I was from nor-cal. After I got Andre’s autograph, we were heading out, and CP found me because of my bear. That was great!!! I even went back in line with her to get another signature for her mother (I was the rule breaker for the day!!). CP brought one of her songs to be signed, but I will let her tell the details of that. We ended up having lunch and discussing all our Dodger issues and getting to know each other outside of Dodger baseball. CP ~ I had a blast!!! I also got to meet acardona (it was great meeting you,too!!). So, what a fabulous day it turned out to be!!
Now to be serious ~
swood ~ you asked why many of us haven’t posted in a while, and I know messagebear stated that it’s a non-caring type of feeling right now. That’s exactly how I feel ~ I want them to win, but I am not disappointed when they lose ethier (either), and when they aren’t playing the right players, I feel at times it is somewhat deserved, and I feel it will lead closer to the end of Ned. When 51,000 people feel that Andruw doesn’t belong in the starting lineup, something is severely wrong with the management of this Dodger team. I have wracked my brain trying to find some reason why Andre should be sitting over JP or Andruw, and there isn’t any. There have been countless people on this board (including myself) that have proved it over, and over and over again, and like many have said we are not the only ones trying to figure this out. I have been unable to post as often as I have wanted to, but it’s because I am here, in LA, and not at home.
messagebear, jungar, kahli and boblee – I sincerely understand how you feel, and the feelings are very mutual. The articles I read last night about how Andre is just being put to the side is just very mind numbing. How can a manager honestly do this to a player who has given you so much up to this point. Andre is still, even with Manny, the best all-around outfileder (IMO). He can hit the ball, and he is excellent in the field as well. Who the hell are we kidding? Yes, it I could easily give Matt and Andre a tie for the best outfielder – depends on the day,etc, but there is no way Andre is anything below the 3rd, and with the play in left center last night, he really isn’t lower than 2.
Well, I have to head out to the game shortly, but I wanted to comment on a few things first.
Wally and Beav!! ~ I hope you are behaving!!
sorry for the long post, but it makes up for all the little ones I do normally – LOL!!
northstateblues – I read your comments and you are like many of us – finding all this completely unacceptable!!

Acardona- I am so happy for you. I wish I would’ve met you all too. I had a rough week and a rough night, so i had to sleep most the day.
Sounds so fun!! I love meeting players. It stays on your mind for a very long time. Happy memories to say the least!!

Dnelly- awesome!! Sounds like soo much fun. I wish I could’ve come out today. meeting you all would’ve been so much fun!!!
my goodness. I’m also glad that this LA trip was so successful for you and that the whole Ethier meeting went well.
It’s ok though, Andre was in my dreams last night. He’s a nice guy. lol.
How are you now? going to the game tonight?

Ramirez keen to finish his career at new home in L.A.

if frank or ned or joe or whoever the hell makes desicions around here thinks it’ll be great to sign manny to the 4 year, $100 mil or whatever ridiculous deal that he and boras want to keep him here through his 40s, then they’re crazier than i already believe them to be.. i’m hanging on with hope that he’s only here for 2 months.. i don’t know what i’ll do if it’s longer than that.. the youth movement can’t happen with a geezer in LF

DNelly and everyone else, I’m glad you had a good time meeting Andre. I’m just a tad jealous. I wish I could have made it, but maybe next time.

Biggest game of the season 2nite. I look for HK to shut these punks down and look for a big offensive night from the boyz!

Amy ~ Yes, I am going to the game, and I might get to meet Emma (crzblue) tonight if we are on the same level. I’m feeling pretty good. I am taking my bear to show off!!
Thanks for asking. And Amy, if there has to be a choice of Andruw and JP in Joe’s mind, I am glad it’s JP out there and not Andruw. 🙂
Have a wonderful evening everyone ~ I will check in after the game.

tony jackson found this on the boston globe:

Of all the Manny moments in Boston, the last ranks as one of the most confounding. Within an hour after Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein informed Manny Ramírez he had been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers Thursday, Ramírez’s agent, Scott Boras, called the Sox back, according to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations. If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract – which they had agreed to do if they traded him – Boras said Ramírez would not be a problem the rest of the season.
For the Sox, the source said, Ramírez’s pledge of good behavior only served as a tacit admission that his disruptive conduct of the last couple of weeks had been calculated, and they had had good cause to suspect more was in the offing if they did not trade him. The Sox told him thanks but no thanks, what was done was done, and pack plenty of sunscreen.

a man with a plan.. an EVIL man with a plan..

there’s a new thread guys!

Good afternoon ITD boys and girls,
When I first got to the AT&T store (around 10:30), I was at the end of the line. I eventually heard that AT&T wireless customers have a separate line; a lot shorter. But before I left, I showed those that were around me the song that I posted last weekend (Joe’s Blue Collar Man). Well, right in front of me was acardona. She looked like she recognized the song, so I asked her if she goes on ITD. She identified herself as acardona. It was great meeting you acardona!!! 🙂

My mom was supposed to go, but couldn’t because she had a funeral to go to. So I had 2 things in my hand and I wanted both of them to be signed; we were only allowed one thing each to sign. The line started moving and dnel and I just stared at each other and recognized each other right away! dnel – it was great to meet you in person!!! 🙂 I knew it was dnel because I recognized her ethierbear that I knew she was bringing. So I asked dnel if she would get back in line with me so Andre would be able to sign the picture that I printed for my mom!!! As far as my song, I just printed it with a thick, blue border with Andre’s picture in the corner. I think it turned out great. I mounted it (and my mom’s half-page picture) each on 11 x 14 foamboards so I can frame them. I did a hand drawing the LA logo in the corner for “Joe’s Blue Collar Man” song; now I’ve gotta do the same on Andre’s picture for my mom. It was great having lunch and talking Dodger issues. It was a great day!!!

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