A great day…
It’s only 2:45 but today has really been phenomenal. This morning we hosted about 300 kids from local youth organizations at a holiday party at Dodger Stadium and it doubled as an introduction to Los Angeles for Andruw Jones. In addition to the newest Dodger, we had people like Tommy Lasorda, Ned Colletti, Eric Karros, Kenny Landreaux, Bobby Castillo, Rudy Law, Charley Steiner and Steve Lyons, among others, on hand to spend time with the youngsters.
As for Andruw, he couldn’t have been more gracious with the little ones and the big ones (those in the media), and we’re certainly looking forward to having him here.
The thing that he kept repeating that stuck out with me is his converations with Ned and Frank in which he said they showed him how much they wanted him and how badly they expect and want to win here. I obviously don’t know what was said behind closed doors but whatever it was, it clearly convinced him that a two-year deal with the Dodgers than a potentially longer gig elsewhere. (On a side note, the final center fielder of the winter signed today – Aaron Rowand for five years and $60 million; Hunter was five years and $90 million and Kosuke Fukudome at four years and $48 million).
He mentioned that in Curacao, where he grew up, the two teams everyone talks about are the Dodgers and Yankees so if there are any people from Curacao reading this, we welcome your native son to Los Angeles and hope you’ll come visit us this Spring in Vero Beach or this summer in LA. He also confirmed that he speaks four languages – English, Spanish, Dutch and Papiamento, which is a mixture of Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, English, French and has some Arawak Indian and African influences (according to my trusty google search). That’s the official language of Curacao and the one he’s spoken since birth.
We also announced today that we have invited 11 players to Spring as non-roster players, including Tanyon Sturtze, Danny Ardoin and Mike Koplove, among others. The full release is here.
Additionally, today we will non-tender Mark Hendrickson, making him a free agent.
I know a lot of you are asking about Kuroda and unfortunately, I don’t really have an update. From what I understand, members of the Japanese media have reported that he told someone at the the Hiroshima Carp that he wants to play for the Dodgers, but if that’s the case, he has not yet told the Dodgers that. That would certainly be great news if it proves to be true and as soon as I know it’s official, I’ll post here again.
Inside the Dodgers 
Hendrickson GONE! Yes!!!
even though he fell flat on his face (literally), I’ve got to wish Hendrickson good luck. I think he gave it a good effort and he’ll catch on elsewhere.
I’m glad Kent is coming back for another go. Personally I see Loney stepping up and batting third and the new guy fourth. I see Kent batting fifth or sixth. Probably in the sixth spot. We’ll score some runs this year.
So do we have any old Devil Rays left?
Shep from last thread, yeah I hear ya on Garv, but Piazza…Wow. Garv was my favorite player ever growing up but Piazza would do that inside out swing and just hammer balls to Right Center.
a great day indeed! lurch is gone!
Lurch is gone! A great day indeed.
jspelk that is too scary.
you copied me max! hopefully one of our NL west competitors pick him up.
Hendrickson did good coming out of the bullpen!! Whyd we get rid of him?????
Oh heck Yes.
LOS ANGELES — Fans of the Dodgers’ youth movement can rejoice.
“I don’t have any interest in trading Matt Kemp,” general manager Ned Colletti said after new center fielder Andruw Jones was introduced to the media on Wednesday.
“He’s close to being a great player. Whether it happens is up to him. He has a tremendous amount of potential to not only be a big leaguer, but a great big leaguer.”
If there was any doubt about Kemp’s potential, it was clarified to Colletti at the recent Winter Meetings, where Kemp was the player other clubs desired most. Instead, he figures to be the everyday right fielder, although there’s still the sticky problem of four outfielders for three positions since the acquisition of Jones.
In parts of two Major League seasons, Kemp has a .312 batting average with 17 homers and 65 RBIs. He hit .340 with 10 homers and 42 RBIs in only 292 at-bats in 2007. Statistically and tools-wise, Kemp is the best all-around outfielder the Dodgers’ farm system has developed since Raul Mondesi.
And he only turned 23 in September, having focused on basketball as a teenager.
“You can’t forget,” said Colletti, “that he’s young and he’s baseball young. Sometimes expectations exceed reality and experience. You see his potential greatness and you’re taken by it. You expect to see it as soon as he steps on the field and it doesn’t happen like that. But you don’t hit .340 by chance.”
If he’s not trading Kemp, what about Juan Pierre or Andre Ethier, the other two outfielders in the primary quartet? Colletti was non-committal.
He said he spoke with Pierre about the acquisition of Jones, which will force the move of Pierre to left field if he is not traded. Colletti said he was satisfied that Pierre would accept the shift. The remaining $36.5 million on Pierre’s contract will be a significant hurdle to clear in any trade.
“The main thing he got across to me is that he wished he had more of an inkling to our thought process,” Colletti said of Pierre. “He said he just wished he knew a month ago. I didn’t know. Who knew?”
Colletti signed Pierre last winter to a five-year contract that has come under constant fire because of Pierre’s weak throwing arm and low on-base percentage. Nonetheless, Colletti said the addition of Jones could dramatically improve a Dodgers lineup with Pierre still in it.
“The club is starting to evolve into looking like it will be able to hit more home runs,” he said, mentioning the emergence of Kemp, James Loney and Russell Martin to go with Jones and Jeff Kent, who told the club Tuesday he will return in 2008.
“I believe the team has the power potential to score in different ways. And it has the added factor of speed with [Rafael] Furcal and Pierre on top providing a different dynamic. How many teams have the speed to steal bases with the top two and have five possible with 20 homers?”
yeah nothing like pierre in LF for 162 games…wooo!!!!!!!!
I just hope everyone who complained that Ned did not show the young kids enough respect or give them enough credit reads this…..
Pierre will be traded.
Do you suspect Lurch, aka Christmas tree, aka 4-Alarm will end up with the Pads like so many of our other cast-off pitchers?
All we can do is hope enchanted.
Hey Jungar, what team would want Pierre and who do you think we’d get in return. Plus we’ll have to eat a bunch of cash owed to pierre but that may be better than having a younger, weaker and faster version of gonzo in left.
Hopefully the White Sox. I think Pierre, as much as I bashed his signing, has value (not 9 million) but that is as a CF and a leadoff man.
Pierre as our starting LF over Ethier does not bother me as much as others right now because I belive that his speed in LF is usless and his arm will not be hidden out there as much as people think and we have two players (as of now=Young/Ethier) who are better hitters than JP and one who is a better fielder and hitter (Ethier).
Torre will do the right thing. I don’t always take quotes at face value but what Ned didn’t say was that Pierre wouldn’t be traded and the whole quote about Pierre wishing he knew early can only translate to= you will now share time and you can kiss your streak god bye, at least if you are a dodger.
Maybe pierre for Crede?
I’ve kinda felt Ned’s statement, “I never said he [JP] was a franchise player” was a not too subtle slap.
You all know where I stand on this issue though – as a 4th outfielder OK, trade better.
Who are the two they’re considering as back-up C?
Also Enchanted he said something like, “sure maybe I was too aggressive in the 06 offseason….”
I think we’re all in agreement he overreacted to Drew’s leaving (how else do you explain JP AND Gonzo), plus if memory serves, he probably thought it was a great coup over the Giants who I believe were also interested in JP at the time.
The really sad thing is that Drew and Lugo stunk up the joint in Bos. and still came out with rings.
BTW, I think Hendrickson was the last of the D-Rays connection.
This is for Superman Jeff Kent.Jeff Kent, not only are you a true Los Angeles Dodger, but you are a true Hall Of Famer!,and you are the true heart and soul of the Los Angeles Dodgers!What a ball player you are!With the signing of Andruw Jones, and the nucleus of all the awesome young talent on the team, Dodger management has made it clear that the goal is to win the World Series in 2008 and bring back the World Baseball Championship back to Los Angeles, where it rightfully belngs and get Superman Jeff Kent his well deserved World Series ring.There definitely is no stopping us now!
If you watch the interview with Scott Boras on mlbtv he mentions that McCourt and Jones had a mutual understanding that the young core of the Dodgers was being kept intact and that was a big reason Jones signed with the Dodgers. So the fact that this Kemp article came out today isn’t a surprise. Also the fact that many news agencies are reporting the Dodgers sign ed Kuroda doesn’t make the Kemp article any less shocking.
I think we will pretty much start the season with the team we have and I believe if there is any change Pierre will be the first one to go.
So here’s my 2008 lineup…
Furcal
Martin
Loney
Jones
Kent
Kemp
LaRoche
Ethier/Pierre
Penny
Lowe
Billingsley
Kuroda
Schmidt/Loaiza (if he’s not traded)
I pretty much think that will be our opening day lineup and roster, minus the bench and bullpen of course.
Have to respectfully disagree with you ndeschenes about Kent being the H&S of the team. I think he’s one of the irritants in the clubhouse. I’d look to Martin as more the H&S. (all of course IMO)
That said, chemistry isn’t everything and he is a HOFer. I believe the D’s are stronger with him at second this year than Abreu, and he’ll probably have Loney hitting behind him this year which will add that much more to the equation. I’m looking for Kent to have a similar year to last, but with who’s in front of him, get back to 100 RBI if he stays healthy.
get russ out of the two spot max…
why? he’s the perfect two spot hitter. If you say its because of too many AB’s I am, by law, obligated to laugh at you.
Bench is:
Nomar
Abreu
Ethier
(backup catcher)
BP:
Saito
Brox
Beimel
Proctor
Tsao/Brazoban/Loaiza?
Does that look right?
it is not only that he will get more at bats, but he will be required to run more, and will feel obliged to run more– ie. steal bases, first to third, first to home, etc… In the 6 hole he can just focus on hitting and driving in runs…
Opening Day lineup:
Furcal
Ethier
Kemp
Jones
Loney
Martin
Kent
LaRoche
actually, switch Martin and James…
opening day lineup
Furcal
Martin
Loney
Jones
Kemp
Ethier
Kent
Laroche
Well Kent isn’t going to bat 7th…Furcal, Martin, Loney, Jones, Kent, Kemp, Ethier, LaRoche, is my lineup
This is how the roster would look as of this moment:
Pitchers: (12)
Beimel
Billingsley
Brazoban OR Meloan OR ?
Broxton
Kuroda
Loaiza
Lowe
Penny
Proctor
Saito
Schmidt
Seanez OR another middle reliever
Catchers: (2)
Martin
(Doesn’t matter)
Infielders: (6)
Abreu
Furcal
Nomar
Kent
LaRoche
Loney
Outfielders: (5)
Ethier
Jones
Kemp
Pierre
Repko
Bill,
They will never play Kent that low on the lineup. My guess is he will be right before or after Jones to benefit from good pitching.
Ewk, add seanez to the bullpen roster and everything else is ok.
I am glad Kent is coming back because if he hadn’t, I think Ned might have paniced and signed/traded for another Pierre, Gonzo, etc. out of desperation. I also think bad attitudes are overrated, as fans we know most of what we hear about players attitudes from the media, not the actual players, managers, etc. themselves. So I think to assume that Kent is not a team guy is unfair considering our only real evidence is what we’ve heard through the media.
I wish Ned had resigned Wolf for 4 mil a year. He is alot better then Loaiza who is making 7 mil a year. Plus we need a lefty in our rotation. Not to mention we let him get away to our arch rivals.
i think all this is good news. jones officaly a dodger, kent officaly still a dodger, and kuroda reportedly a fuetre dodger. plus to hear coletti has no intentions in trading kemp is great. i think this 08′ dodger team is shaping itself to be a legitimate playoff contender
Max, why would you laugh at someone if they said Martin isn’t best suited for the 2 spot in the lineup?
Opening Day Lineup:
Furcal SS
Ethier LF
Kemp RF
Jones CF
Kent 2B
Loney 1B
Martin C
LaRoche 3B
Penny P
I was looking at some of your lineups, there is no way in the world Torre would bat Kent 7th or 8th. He has way too much respect for the HOFer to bat him that low!
Alex- I would say your roster is pretty accurate. Nice Work.
I finally straightened out one of my biggest puzzles. I could have sworn that Yankee relief pitcher Kyle Farnsworth pitched for the Dodgers at one time. I was so sure of it. Well, it was Brian Falkenberg. I had apparently mixed up Farnsworth with Falkenberg. Yeah that was him.
I just don’t think they will retain Ethier as a fourth outfielder. He deserves to start somewhere. I wish it was here. I don’t honestly know why they aren’t trying to find a way to dump pierre. The mind baffles.
It seems like about 70% of the rumors you here are false(especially about Pierre). But I tell you if this rumor that Kuroda will sign with us is false, Ken Gurnick is not going to feel too good. Of course neither will the rest of us.
Not sure Torre would not bat Kent low in the order, he did bat A-Rod 8th in the playoff 2 years ago. That being said, Kent is way to clutch to bat any where lover 6th.
Cubs just made Mark Prior a free agent
My line-up.
Furcal
Martin
Loney
Jones
Kemp/Kent
Kent/Kemp
LaRoche/Nomar
Ethier
Explanations:
Kemp/Kent – Although I’d be fine with either batting 5th or 6th, I’m leaning towards Kemp in the 5 spot because I feel he could use the protection more than Kent.
LaRoche in the 7 slot: Besides being, IMO, a much better hitter than Ethier, I think his extraordinary plate discipline would be completely wasted in the 8 spot. This guy needs to see more pitches he can hit. I am really excited to have the chance to see this guy rake next season.
Ethier in the 8 slot: there is simply no other place for him other than maybe the 2 slot. I just think that Russ is a much better fit there. Nonetheless, its kinda nice when you have no spot other than the 8 slot for a hitter if his quality.
Can someone please explain the love affair everyone has with LaRoche. I get he has done well in the minors, but he has not done anything with his chances he has had so far in the majors and everyone seems to be handing him the job. I do not think Normar has earned it either, but theres gotta be a lot more options than Laroche and Nomar. I really want Nomar to wins the job, but because Ned did not try to make a deal.
kent should bat 6th or 7th.
he is not a middle of the order bat anymore. he only hit 20 homeruns last year and i expect that to stay the same regardless of who we have batting in front or behind him. im not gonna say that he is gonna be the nomar of last year, but kent is too old to be a legitiment middle of the order bat.
Please, Ned, GIVE Pierre to the Padres.
Rowand, Jones, Hunter, Fukodome are now off the market, and SD does not appear to want Mike Cameron. Towers is looking for a speedy CF for the spacious confines of Petco, and although he’s GREAT at finding good pitching, his lineups have ****** for years. He might be ******** into believing that Pierre would be a great addition to a team that had WAY too many sub-.260-hitters in the lineup.
I’ll say it again: picture this. Pierre bunts for a single. Trying to steal 2nd, Martin throws him out. Then Martin steals three bases that same game against Chris Young.
Give Pierre to SD and pay $6 mil/year. PLEASE NED.
Rangers non-tendered Akinori Otsuka, personally I’d consider to offer him a one year deal. But, he’ll probably want to set up or close, so it’d be unlikely he’d accept being a middle relief guy, which is how I see him on this team.
It really is a great day. I lvoe the comments that Ned made about Kemp! This could be for real. (I was initially shocked that Jungar gave Ned a mid-offseason A+, but if he signs Kuroda, it’s true).
Kuroda is not the panacea to our pitching issues (a year or two is what we really need–with Kershaw, McDonald, others set to develop). But he is a panacea to our off-season move issues. We sign him and that’s all the moves to be made–no more living in fear of a Matt Kemp trade. The only thing left to do is settle on a back-up catcher (a dime a dozen, sort of) and if there were a deal that sent Pierre out, it would be good for him and the team (but keeping Pierre primarily as a 4th outfielder is fine).
Seriously, we’re going to win the pennant.
Regarding a back-up catcher, we’re in a strange spot (though, we’ve been there before). We have the best catcher in the league, and he’s the leader of the team. Right now, he is one of the few bedrocks on offense (DodgerThoughts had a post that showed that everyone had question marks, and while I think they are going to be answered postively, they are there). So, we don’t want to sit Martin, but we need to rest him to keep him lively. Also, while backup catchers are easy to come by, if Martin takes a day off, or gets hurt and is out for a week (a long injury is problematic for us), there is a huge hole in our order.
I love the Piazza idea, but I am worried that if Martin got hurt for a week, could Pizza-Man deliver every day? He might be better to think of as a right-handed pinch hitter who can also catch. But, however it works, I would still be happy becase, well, he’s great. Sadly, he’s also considered a Met, and they revere him in New York. But perhaps signing him would be some sort of karmic exorcism of the Fox era.
Regarding lineups–I am hoping that Pierre is primarily a 4th outfielder/pinch runner. I could see him playing nearly every night in a pinch running. With that, the lineup becomes a little tricky. Between Loney, Kemp, Jones, and Kent, you have 4 guys who you would expect to hit in the 3-4 spots. I think Torre is less inclined to hit Martin in the 2-hole because it creates a rejiggering at the top of your line-up every week to ten days (if Russ is getting some rest). I expect to see Jones and Kent bat back to back because they have (probably rightly) earned middle of the order status.
I think Loney could hit second. It’s not the ideal spot for him, but he has good plate discipline, and that could allow Furcal to steal. The other thing is that I don’t see anyone else hitting second. Kemp has the speed, but is too much a free-swinger still, I don’t see Jones hitting that early, in the line-up, Kent is not a 2-hitter, and the aforementioned problem with Martin is that it creates a hole in the top of the order too often, and I don’t think that Torre likes that. And you can’t justify putting Ethier and LaRoche that high in the order because it displaces guys who we expect to count on more.
(One wildcard here, but I see it as less likely–if Nomar magically returned to form, he would be a solid choice for a 2-hitter. I expect he will not return to form and we will see a lot of Andy LaRoche, but it’s a wildcard).
Then, you could hit Kemp, Jones, Kent 3-4-5. Kemp’s speed as a 3-hitter is fun to watch, and if Jones and Kent back him up, expect a steady diet of fastballs. Otherwise, hit Kemp 5th, with Jones and Kent 3-4. Martin, Ethier, and LaRoche hit 6-7-8, though we’ll see if a 40-year old Jeff Kent can keep it up, otherwise he might fall to 6th. When Kent rests, everyone moves up a spot and Abreu hits 8th.
The result is more of a mashers line-up. It’s not really built around bunts and moving guys over, but extra base hits. There should be good speed built in (the 1, 3, 4, and 6 guys can all steal at least 20 bases), so expect to see people take an extra base. I think this all works out well. It fits some of the American League type line-ups that Torre is used to.
A note from the last thread. Jungar was right that Stargell hit it over the Pavillion at Dodger Stadium twice, and Piazza did it once.
But–I always thought that Dave Kingman did it once too, and I know for a fact that Mark McGwire did it once (I was in the left field pavillion the night he hit one into the pavillion and one over the pavillion–and the kid who recovered the ball did not know who had hit it). Too bad they are all tainted. With the Mitchell report tomorrow, don’t expect signing news.
OK, I’ll play:
Furcal
Martin
Kemp
Jones
Loney
Kent
Ethier
Nomar
Speed in the top three spots, followed by R-L-R-L-R batters. Nomar batting 8 will FORCE him to be more patient.
Bench:
Back-up catcher???
Repko
Young
LaRoche
Pierre
Valdez
5 starters, 6 in pen.
Need a veteran long-ball stick off the bench. Pierre is taking up that spot. I’d rather have Valdez as utility infielder than Abreu…right now, anyway.
This team is already so much better than last year, it’s not even funny. Just a few more tweaks and we’ve got a 1st place club.
Tommy, LaRoche has been a great hitter in AAA (.309/.399/.589/.987 with 18 HRs in 265 AB). There is no guarantee he will have similar success in MLB, but as fans we have hope. In MLB he had two series of chances. In May, Grady batted him in the 8th spot where he had 37 AB with .216/.444/.270 with 15 walks, 5 K, and 8 hits, but only 2 doubles as his extra base hits. He was criticized for the low avg and slg. He kind of wants to be a major leaguer, so in Sep when he was batted in the 8th spot again, his 55 AB yielded .236/.300/.345 with 5 walks, 19 K, and 13 hits, including 3 doubles and 1 HR. In between, he had a grand total of 1 AB in June (an out). He is not yet good at hitting pitches off the plate, so his strike outs increased from 5 to 19, while his walks decreased from 15 to 5 from May to September. He just turned 24.
In addition, he was chosen for Team USA, where he and D Young were leaders of a team that beat Cuba for the first time in more than thirty years. On Team USA, against international pitching in Oct and Nov, LaRoche hit .333 avg and .697 slg in 33 AB with 5 walks, 3 HRs and 10 RBI to lead the team.
My interpretation of these data and circumstances is that the frequency of walks and high OBP indicate great plate discipline. Pitchers are unwilling to pitch to an unknown opponent with a reputation for HRs when the pitcher is up next and there is an open bag at first. I would rather encourage him to keep the good eye at the plate than to require him to change his approach while still a young major leaguer. Believe it or not, batting 8th is a particular skill. Hitters that succeed in the 8th spot need to be able to hit pitches off the outside of the plate. Minor leaguers are taught to lay off pitches off the plate and wait for their pitch. He did so well at this that he had an OBP of .399 in AAA and .444 in MLB in May. The September stats are the result of being forced outside his training and comfort zone. Putting him up against MLB pitchers is enough pressure, don’t make him hit 8th. Let a player with a different approach at the plate bat 8th. You will be rewarded with great OBP and power from a 3B, a skill position.
Ethier, Pierre, and Martin are all better suited to batting 8th. Some day, LaRoche may be a middle of the order hitter. Until we know, protect him and let him get used to MLB pitchers in the 7th spot. He will get more strikes and show you what he can and cannot do in MLB.
Thank You Shepherd. Well said.
My order with Ethier:
Furcal S SS
Martin R C
Loney L 1B
Jones R CF
Kent R 2B
Kemp R RF
LaRoche R 3B
Ethier L LF
Loney has more power vs. RHP, but better OBP vs. LHP. There is nothing wrong with getting walked by LHP in front of Jones, Kent, Kemp.
If LaRoche leads the team in OBP, I would switch to:
Furcal S
LaRoche R
Loney L
Jones R
Kent R
Kemp R
Martin R
Ethier L
I hope that Young is allowed to develop, because he hits well plus he is a switch hitter. He should either be the 4th OF or spend some time in AAA waiting for an opportunity. If Ethier bats .284/.350/.452 again, I would give Young a serious tryout.
Pierre is a pro, but needs to go to another team for a pitcher or back-up catcher. If he stays he should compete with Ethier for time. Since both bat L, there is no platoon scheme. One will win the LF position, one will get traded. Kemp is a lock for RF, until he loses the position or gets injured.
Furcal likes to steal 3rd if there is a right handed batter. It would be nice to have a lefty batting 2nd, to protect him when he is on 1st. Loney and Ethier could both bat 2nd, but neither is good at stealing and Loney has shown power that would be wasted in the 2 hole. I would love to see Young develop into a 2-hole batter, but until that happens, Ethier could be a 2-hole batter if he improves his OBP (he already gets a lot of doubles and walks):
Furcal S
Ethier L
Kemp R
Jones R
Loney L
Kent R
LaRoche R
Martin R
It is hard to bat Kent 6th, since he lead the team in qualified avg, OBP, slg, and HR. However, Loney was impressive in 344 AB with .331/.381/.538. If he keeps it up, how can you bat him lower, when he is an L stick?
i just listened to ned’s interview with joe mcdonnell and i have to say he is very dim with regards to pierre, who from what it sounds like will open in LF this season. he believe the pierre will be more sucessful with a better heart of the order to drive him in. no ned, you see pierre’s numbers will be bad regardless of who is hitting behind him. its not that he wasn’t getting driven in enough, it was the fact that he wasn’t on base enough to begin with. and ******* up the most ab’s on the whole team didn’t really help either. no mention of his atrocious “d” i’ll reiterate that even though he mentions ethier as part of the ‘core’ in the interview theres no way we will keep him as a fourth outfielder. the man still thinks we are better off with pierre than ethier, that or he absolutely, positively cannot trade him. i am a sad panda, so to speak.
A funny little statistic i found-
with the bases loaded this year (or for loney & kemp past 2 years to get them nearly same # of AB’s)
Player Ab’s BA RBI’s SO
Loney 11 .455 11 4
Martin 10 .400 16 4
Nomar 6 .333 2 2
Ethier 15 .200 10 3
Jones 16 .188 8 6
J Kent 6 .167 7 3
Pierre 14 .071 5 0
Kemp 15 .067 5 2
Lee I am down in San Juan Capistrano. My sister lives walking distance from the Hermosa pier and moved there recently from Redondo. She lived off Emerald. We should hit up a game some time..like I say we should all organize and go to a game and sit out in the bleachers.. Sorta like how when the guys over at dodgerthoughts go.
Great posts everyone..some of your lineups are crazy. My ideal would be (which may be crazy):
RF,RM,JL,MK,AJ,JK,AE,AL
-Loney also hit .380 .426.546 in 06 (minors) he is our best hitter I think
-What you guys are saying about Martin for no two hole is a good rule. Some rules should be broken. I want that guy hitting in the first inning, and due to what else we have he is by far our best two hole hitter (patience, gap power, hit to all fields, works counts and speed) it just blows he is a catcher. Bend the rule for now.
and not to burst bubbles but this may be it.
RF, JP, JK, AJ, JL, RM, MK, NG
oh and Furcal was-
Furcal 13ab’s .231BA 8rbi’s 5so
Pierre vs. Ethier
I’ve tried to compare what it would look like if Ethier had as many ab’s as Pierre, and if he had batted 2nd, by seeing how they did in situational hitting, ie. 0 runners on, 1 runner, 2/3 runners. Here is what i came up with:
0 runners – 62% of ab’s
Player BA bb/so rbi
Pierre .289 1/1.2 0
Ethier .279 1/2 10
1 runner – 28%
Pierre .349 1/1 23
Ethier .297 1/1.6 28
2&3 runners – 10%
Pierre .171 1/1 18
Ethier .275 1/.6 37
Pitches per PA
Pierre 3.40
Ethier 3.66
% contact on a swing (good for hit & runs)
Pierre 94%
Ethier 83%
DP’s
Pierre 10
Ethier 15
so? 90% of time probably a wash. Pierre gets more hits, Ethier gets more BB’s and SO’s. Pierre does better on hit&runs and more stolen bases, Ethier gets more rbi’s.
In the field Pierre covers more ground, fewer errors, Ethier much better arm. So my opinion after looking at this- either keep Pierre batting 2nd and get some value for Ethier if possible, or dump Pierre but keep Ethier in the 7 or 8 hole.
First let me say Jeff Kent is NOT the heart & soul of our Dodgers. Put a “C” on Martin’s jersey already. Every player should approach the game the way Martin does. that said if Kent is a true leader he will accept hitting 7th in our line up because that’s where he belongs Loney,Jones,Kemp,Martin are all better hitters. Here’s me line up:
Furcal
Martin(Pudge hit in the 2 hole for 10 years)
Loney
Jones
Kemp
Ethier
Kent
LaRoche
I think that is the best line up in the NL. We have a manager that is afraid to shake up the line up I remember Arod hitting 8th in the playoffs a couple seasons ago.
Go Dodgers!!!
I can’t wait until March
*a manager that isn’t afraid to shake up the line up is what I meant
Breaking News – Roger Clemens did steroids. Espn is reporting that. It’s news that has been whispered before but I guess it’s going to be in the Mitchell report today. Man, today is going to be a bad day for alot of players. I just hope no Dodgers is in the list…
I think maybe Sheffield at least will be an ex-Dodger who is accused
Hilarious. The Giants replace Bonds with Rowand, and think that they will be better offensively next year.
Without their young pitchers, that team would be the worst team in baseball.
http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html
That’s a link to the supposed complete list of users who will appear in the report.
Nomar on the list…as well as no surprise Gagne..interesting..
That article says that MLB officials have said there are several errors, but it includes several Dodgers/Past Dodgers. I see Milton, Gagne, Nomar, Mondesi, Guillermo Mota, Offerman and Shef. Did I miss any?
Atom good resarch I like it and applaud the effort but I have to add :
The stats you pull do not have the best hitter on your team batting behind Ethier. It could have been the pitcher alot of the times. So the stats are skewed right there. Pierre always hit in front of the three hole. He has Furcal in front of him, many times Ethier had slow runners in front of him which negates the double play balls you bring up. And his approach is different. Pierre does have a higher contact rate but most of the time the ball does not leave the infield and moved less runners along on his outs because of it, or because he cant hit a sac fly.. I am sure he has far more force outs that Ethier would (but more double plays) and Ethier would see more pitches at the top of the order than bottom due to the players around him and because pitchers know if you throw him a ball over the plate he can do damage, where Pierre may just hit a single.
And on defense I think all around Ethier is better, not just his arm. And you will see that when you see Pierre in LF ,which is now a new factor in all this.
I think the team will be good enough no matter which way they go, but I hope they go with Ethier.
323 of Ethiers 447 Ab’s were not batting 8th. He hit 7th the most, and the player most often hitting 6th last year was Martin. Pierre’s GO/FLyO ratio was much worse,1.65 to Ethier’s 1.10
I knew it! I knew Nomar roided! I freaking knew it!
Interesting news about The List. Apparently, Nomar is on it, which makes me question if ‘roids do any good.
Other Dodger-related players are Mondesi, Milton Bradley (explains the rage), Gagne, and Guillermo Mota.
Piazza, who there had long been rumors about, is NOT on the list, which is nice. Jeff Kent is not, which does not surprise me–he may act like a jerk sometimes, but I never doubted that he was clean. None of our other current players, and certainly none of our kids.
Some other surprises includes Pujols, Wally Joyner, and Jose Offerman (surprising for different reasons for each).
Hopefully MLB and the Union will start fixing this. Unfortunately, I have little faith in Selig–now is when we could use a strong commissioner who would act in the best interests of baseball
Jungar–I heard that the Swallows don’t return there anymore? We should definitely get to a game this season. I also like the idea of a Blog Day.
It’s about to go down fellas.
Nomar, Gagne, Gonzo, Bagwell, Brady Anderson, Albert Bell, Milton Bradley, Adrian Beltre, Keith Folk, and many others are about to go down.
The press conference just started…
Rondell White, Fernando Vina, Greg Zaun, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagne, Matt Herges, Kent Mercker, Adam Riggs, Jerry Hairston, Jason Grimsley are some of the players on the list.
Eric Gagne is on the list.
Jack Cust, Larry Bigbi, David Segui, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Mark Carreon, Hall Morris, Matt Franco, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, David Justice are on the list.
Wow, just heard the Rocket got shot down.
That is just, wow
http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf
the full report.
LoDuca gets destroyed.
Interesting reading the report.. especialy the part about the Dodgers.. Looks like Paul LoDuca was a big steroids guy.. providing them to Gagne and Herges and a bunch of other players in those clubhouses.
F.P. Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Chris Donnels, Todd Williams, Phil Hiatt, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Cody McKay, Adam Piatt, Miguel Tejada, Jason Christiansen, Mike Stanton, Stephen Randolph, Paul Lo Duca, Bart Miadich, Mike Bell, Gary Bennett Jr, Jim Parque, Brendan Donnelly, Chad Allen, Jeff Williams, Howie Clark…..
I also heard that Pettite was to be named, that is an enormous shocker
Who would have thought that Lenny Dykstra and Chuck Knoblauch would have been on the list.
paul loduca in report.
Loduca and Gagne loved those steroids man…
I’m confused. Is this report listing people who have done anabolic steroids, HGH, anything similar to these products, or all of the above???
Also, im a little foggy on the specifics of what was banned and when it wwas– i think steroids in the traditional sense was ALWAYS banned, but i know that HGH was not banned until recently.
That being said, HGH is a perfectly legit way to recover faster from injury and considering athletes get injured and the increased pressure to return quickly, it seems like a lot of these guys had it proscribed to them by doctors. I’m just a little worried that this report is trying to sweep everyone under one big carpet, when in reality and context some offenses were MUCH worse than others…
I wonder if Jim Tracy ever saw anything ? I have a Loduca and Gagne bobblehead that is attached together. I think I’m going to destroy it! lol
Gary Sheffield, Barry Bonds, Benito Santiago, Lenny Dykstra, Jason Giambi….
Nomar’s name is not in the report I read, if somebody has the transcript with his name in it, post it.
Does anyone think we should give Prior a shot?
Wow. Lo Duca seemed to be the ringleader for the Dodgers steroid use.
The PDF of the entire report is on espn.com. Im on page 285 right now. I haven’t seen any traces of Nomar yet.
Ismael Valdez…add him to the ex dodger list.
What page is Pujols on. I must have read over him. I didn’t see Nomar on it either.
I put Nomar’s name into ‘Find’ and there are NO findings of him anywhere in the report.
didnt see nomar.
i did the same alex, no nomar.
Brian Roberts, Gary Mathews Jr., Jose Canseco, Jay Gibbons, and Sammy Sosa are on the list.
Pujols isn’t in the report. Nomas nor any current dodger is in the report.
rick ankiel in again.
Thanks Max.
I don’t think Mark Prior is in the Dodgers plans. I read that the Padres are close in getting him.
“Citing his career high 3 HR in 2003, Juan Pierre is a suspected user.”
naw i just made that up, lol.
I’m glad that first link perumike listed had some errors, nice to know that we are OK right now and that Nomar didn’t juice. I wonder how long it will be until players start denying the report.
Paul should have provided our hitters with those instead of the pitchers since we usually have a punchless offense!
Here is a list of players in the report that was linked to use of PEDs.
Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Gary Bennett Jr
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Gary Matthews Jr
Josias Mazanillo
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Danny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettite
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
Adam Riggs
F.P. Santangelo
David Segui
Scott Shoeneweis
Mike Stanton
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Fernando Vina
Ron Villone
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
lemans, I still think Nomas jucied. This report just scratched the surface. This report was based around 2 dealers testemony and an online companys data base. If you read the report you will notice a majority of it has to do with the east coast, minus BALCO of course.
Barry Bonds too “the clear” and “the Cream” 3 to 4 times a week for 3 or 4 years starting in 2001. He’s gonna fry.
I think this report only has about 1/10 of the players that juiced up. Besides the checks and package slips, I wonder how much of the “word of mouth” is really true? There’s no denying the proof that some of these players have against them but I wonder if all is true?
took*
Paul Lo Duca =
Steroids aren’t being used anymore on him. Big part of this.
Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.
. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.
. . . Can get comparable value back would consider trading. . . . If
you do trade him, will get back on the stuff and try to show you he can have a good year. That’s his makeup. Comes to play. Last
year of contract, playing for 05..
Is that the reason he got traded in the middle of the season of 2004 ? Wow, I want to know. At that time, I didn’t like the trade and didn’t understand it.
Some obvious conclusions: banning the juice really cut into players’ ability to perform post-juice…some trades begin to make a little more sense (can you say Lo Duca???)
todd hundley? you mean those 40 HRS weren’t for real? lol brown and gagne- no suprise. loduca gets fried. good thing he already signed his new deal with the nats.
Good point Robert.
I already posted the list Max, but thanks for putting all in one post 🙂
“[Stan] Conte asked [Greg] Anderson for a resume during spring training. In response, Anderson supplied a one-page document indicating that Anderson had graduated from high school and that everything else was “pending”. The resume did not reveal, and Conte was unaware of, any education or expertise that Anderson might have that would have qualified him to train a professional athlete.”
Anderson was basically Bonds’ drug guy. What a joke.
THE GAGNE REPORT =
Paul Lo Duca and Gagné were teammates with the Dodgers from 1999 to 2004.
Although he is not sure when, Radomski recalled that Lo Duca called Radomski and told
Radomski that Gagné was with him and wanted to buy human growth hormone. Gagné then
came onto the phone and asked Radomski a question about how to get air out of a syringe. This is the only time Radomski spoke to Gagné. Radomski said that Lo Duca thereafter placed orders
on Gagné’s behalf.Radomski said that he mailed two shipments to Gagné, each consisting of two kits
of human growth hormone. One was sent to Gagné’s home in Florida; the other was sent to
Dodger Stadium. Federal agents seized from Radomski’s home a copy of an Express Mail receipt showing a shipment to “Dodger Stadium, c/o Eric Gagne – L.A. Dodgers Home Club,
1000 Elysian Park Ave., Los Angeles, California 90012” dated August 9, 2004. A copy of this
receipt is included in the Appendix and is shown below. Radomski said that this was for one of
the shipments of human growth hormone to Gagné Lo Duca paid Radomski for one of the shipments to Gagné by cashier’s check in
the amount of $3,200. The Lo Duca checks supplied by Radomski reflect two payments of $3,200 (each the cost of two kits) within a six-week time frame during the summer of 2004. Radomski said that, on one other occasion, Gagné sent Radomski $3,200 in cash by FedEx.
More on Gagne:
According to notes of the October 2003 meetings of Dodgers officials, it was
reportedly said of Gagné that: “he probably takes medication and tendons and ligaments don’t build up just the muscle. When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to
a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne?
I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his
medical?” The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,”Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a
checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues.Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body
and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and
without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup
to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . .” In order to provide GagnĂ© with information about these allegations and to give
him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.
WOW !!
Can I get my money back on all those tickets I bought to see the great “Game Over” ?
Gagne was the man! Roids or not!
Gagne is the man with roids, he is not the man without steroids. Check the stats. I wonder how the Brewers are feeling now after giving 10 million bucks for 1 year. Stupid.
That’s ok, we don’t have him anymore and those 84 straight saves were still awesome! Id like to see Sammy get close to that!
Nomar Garciaparra and Albert Pujols are not on the list. It was reported earlier that they were. Not true.
Wow!!!! Ismail Valdez, Bonds, Tejada, Gagne, Pettite, Rocket! I’m surprised Piazza wasn’t on this list. I always thought he roided.
Man, I didn’t see Justice on the list
This list that we were provided was far from complete. We barely scratched the surface on the names and numbers of players that juiced.
Yeah Scurtis, let Sosa hit 100 homeruns in 1 year, how fun !
You mean David Justice ? Yeah he is on the list.
Milton Bradley is not on the report. It’s not true.
I was talking about Sammy Saito!
I saw a report that had Nomar and Pujols, but it was false. Sorry about that. A lot of fake lists were flying around before the report was released. It didn’t make sense to me that Nomar would be on The List (both because of his premature decline and he seems too good), and I’m glad he’s not.
It’s a black eye for the game (though, for a while now, we’ve all been expecting that). The point now is that the Commissioner has to clean it up.
Saito will never get close to that. Gagne did it because of Steroids.
I dont know. I always thought Saito could get a very nice streak going. I was thinking at least 50 straight. That’s tough but he’s really good.
I still think Nomar juiced. He was too good of a player and when the testing started he was always hurt and his numbers dropped big time. I think Gonzo is in that same boat.
Ivan Rodriguez is not on the list, as reported before.
There are lot of fake lists out there. I saw Mike Piazza and that is not true. Also, no Brady Anderson and Luis Gonzales.
Just because they weren’t on the list didn’t mean they didn’t juice and some of the players on the list don’t have evidence against them other than what a single person said.
Cameron, we know that if someone is not on the list, it does not mean that he is clean. There could be hundreds of players that have done it. Also, everyone that is on the list was invited to speak to Mitchell and everyone refused! So that means that if you are on the list, you did do steroids because you didn’t want to defend yourself !
That’s not true at all. Nobody would have talked if Bud hadn’t threatned players with suspension. That’s the way baseball players are. It doesn’t matter if they did or didn’t do steroids nobody was going to talk unless they were made to.
I disagree Cameron. If I’m on the list I would defend myself at any cost! Why would I want to get embarrased like that ?
They didn’t speak because they are guilty!
It’s an unwritten rule between baseball players. Nobody talks unless everybody talks.
Glad Nomar isn’t on the list
Yeah whatever, tell that to Jose Canseco. If I’m innocent I speak about myself, not about other people. I would only defend myself, what’s wrong with that ? Your so-called unwritten rule does not make sense.
Well 14 ex dodgers on the list:
Paul LoDuca
Eric Gagne
Kevin Brown
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
Matt Herges
Jeff Williams
Ricky Stone
Mike Judd
Ismael Valdez
Adam Riggs
Chris Donnels
Larry Bigbie
I don’t know about you guys but now the Fox trade of LoDuca makes a lot more sense as does Gagne going from being a poor to average player to superstar overnight.
It’s not my unwritten rule and I didn’t say it made since. I’m just saying that it is what it is. That’s why the players union for baseball is stronger than any other sports union out there. And Canseco only ran his mouth after he couldn’t cut it anymore and wanted the publicity. You never heard anything out of him until he was washed up.
It was not a Fox trade. It was under the McCourt ownership. Paul Depodesta traded Lo Duca not Fox. I think you got confused with Mike Piazza. Fox traded him.
Yes, the players union told the players NOT to talk.
Hey Cameron, we can agree to disagree.
I’m the type of guy that if I’m accused of something I did not do, I would defend myself. I don’t care. You got to stand up for your rights.
If you want to stand up for yourself then that’s fine but the point of being a union is not about 1 player it’s about every player. If one player doesn’t listen to the union then the union loses strength. The difference in baseball and other sports is that the union runs baseball not the comissioner. We’re the only sport that has a union stronger then the comissioner’s office. Baseball can’t change any rules because the union won’t let them.
There’s a lot that falls on Fehr because of the outright obstinance and animosity he continually shows towards management. Call him the ultimate enabler.
Still, a blind eye (or not so blind looking at some of the Dodgers past moves in a new light now) was turned by too many all the way around.
Hey Cosmow, you missed at least one:
Dave Roberts
Alright guys, have a needle free weekend.
oops, by bad
that was Brian Roberts, not Dave.
Josh, I think we need a new blog…this title doesn’t fit anymore…
Yeah sherwood, lets not dirty up Dave Roberts name. Although he plays for the hated ones, he coached me in high school and is really one of the nicest guys you can meet.
Nothing surprising. Sad era for baseball. Too bad it has tainted some hallowed records.
Well 14 ex dodgers on the list:
Paul LoDuca
Eric Gagne
Kevin Brown
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
Matt Herges
Jeff Williams
Ricky Stone
Mike Judd
Ismael Valdez
Adam Riggs
Chris Donnels
Larry Bigbie
I don’t know about you guys but now the Fox trade of LoDuca makes a lot more sense as does Gagne going from being a poor to average player to superstar overnight.
Posted by: cosmow123@yahoo.com | December 13, 2007 01:58 PM
There are only 12 players, and you listed Judd twice.
Actually, you didn’t list Sheffield on there either. So 13 players.
Todd Williams is another former Dodger on the list.
Phil Hiatt. There are several more.
Actually according to Ken Gurnick, Adevandry missed F.P.Santangelo, Phil Hiatt & Darrell Homes. It looks like Gurnick did not list Gary Sheffield.
Cosmow that is the first time I have seen you make a post on this blog that didn’t harass people… funny thing about it is your post is completely inaccurate. LOL! I can’t believe Justice is on there. I didn’t think he roided.
Sheffield isn’t on Max’s list…
Hopefully, baseball will learn from this dark era and move forward with better systems in place to stop the cheating. I look forward to a clean era in baseball.
Getting away from steroids for a minute… I heard the Rox just signed Kip Wells. I like that pickup for them. Wells has always had alot of potential(especially with the pirates) but has never lived up to expectations. I know hes coming back from injuries but I still think he could easily be a diamond in the rough.
I hope all this will discourage, players from trying to get an edge in the future. But even if they put an asterisk or completely wipe out any records that they might have acchieved, we will always know what the records were, that they set, in our minds, and expect other to attain them. Let’s just hope above all that we can turn the page.
As not only a Dodger fan, but as a baseball fan, I really hope this is the end of the steroid era!
Agreed jhall ^^^
Bud Selig is an idiot and I will never like him as comissioner!
The importance of the clean up hitter?-
I did a study in which i took 50 players who had about 400-600 PA’s batting in nearly the same place in the batting order (i combined 5/6 batters, as they often switched, and the 7/8/(9AL) players for the same) and took a look at how often they faced big game situations with 2/3 men on base-
Leadoff – 12%
2nd – 13%
3rd – 16%
4th – 18%
5th/6th – 20%
7/8/9th – 17%
So, the 3-9 hitters all had nearly the same % of PA’s with multiple men on base. So the question is then, how successful were they? A random sample –
3rd
C. Jones – .325 batting avg.
Pujols – .304
B. Abreu – .272
Griffey – .253
4th
T. Helton – .343
G. Anderson – .318
Manny – .277
A. Jones – .255
5th/6th
J. Posada – .317
I. Rodriguez – .309
A. Dunn – .250
H. Matsui – .212
7/8/9th
Jacque Jones – .324
Inge – .302
J. Barfield – .250
J. Uribe – .235
So, in a game where the league wide avg. is 4.5 runs scored a game, in situations where you can achieve half of that total or more with an extra base hit, and the 3-9 hitters have appox. the same % of big game situations, they seem, in this random sampling, to succeed about the same % of the time.
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