Coaching Staff Announced

In a short while, we’ll be sending out the release on our coaching staff for next season. In addition to Bowa and Mattingly, Mariano Duncan will return as the first base coach, Rick Honeycutt returns as the pitching coach and Ken Howell will be promoted from Triple-A to serve as the bullpen coach. Bob Schaefer, who was the bench coach for Oakland last season, will take over that role for the Dodgers and Joe Torre next season.

Also, on the medical front, Jason Schmidt was in Los Angeles yesterday to see Dr. ElAttrache and everything is going well with his rehab. He’s been cleared to start tossing next week in Arizona and while this is a positive step in the right direction, it’s basically just another hurdle he’s cleared on the road to returning.

There are a few more things I want to post in a bit but for now, I figured I’d out this out and will update later today.

UPDATE:

I agree with you all that there have not been enough updates about our players currently playing overseas in Taiwan. Andy LaRoche and Delwyn Young have both played incredibly for that team and in the comments section, someone posted the most recent article. It seems info is hard to get from there right now, but I do know that our baseball ops people are watching those games with great interest.

Also, a hearty congrats go out to another Dodger scout, Clair Rierson, who will receive the Mid Atlantic Scout Association Scout of the Year award this weekend in Maryland. On the heels of a great honor for Lon Joyce, it’s nice to see our scouts getting their due respect. As I’ve said many times, it’s not all about one person in this organization – tons of people contribute to the success of those you hear about in the mainstream media.

There were some questions about Manny Mota and we are fully expecting he’ll be back, as will Rob Flippo. That was the first thing Ned said on the conference call with the reporters, but in this instance it made more sense to speak with Manny first before putting his name in the announcement and he’s been out of reach in the D.R. for a while. But I know they got a hold of him earlier today and all is well on that front.

And finally, to try and soothe the fears of everyone who reads the rumors, while I’m not the GM, I can assure you that everyone here understands the value of our young players and the ridiculous asking prices that are usually out there at the beginning of the offseason. Everything in baseball is a negotiation and the initial requests or numbers are rarely the final ones. Just think about the $350 million that suddenly became $275 this week.

One of the first things Ned said on the call is that one of the difficult things is that our "prospects" aren’t really prospects anymore. They’re legitimate Major Leaguers and everyone seems to understand that. Any trade that would be made would be made with that in mind.

Have a nice weekend…

160 Comments

They should have either mad Howell the pitching coach or left him at that position in AAA. He is way to good of a coach to be stuck in the bullpen. If he isn’t going to be the full time pitching coach then I think he needs to continue developing our young pitchers. He does a great job doing that.

Thanks Josh.

Hopefully the “few more things” includes Juan Pierre being relegated to pinch running specialist or traded for Marlon Anderson.

thanks josh!

All I want to hear today is:

1) The Dodgers realize that Kemp, Loney and Billingsley are no longer prospects. They are major league ballplayers.

2) Hence, there is no way they’re going to trade all of them, or even two of them, to get Miguel Cabrera, despite rumors in the newspapers.

A lot of very thoughtful, very passionate fans have been waiting for 20+ years for the Dodgers to break the pattern of thinking one more veteran, one more bubblegum-card guy, will put them over the top. It didn’t work with Strawberry, with Davis, Sheffield, Green, Eddie Murray, Fred McGriff, Nomar, Luis Gonzalez or Jeff Kent, and it especially won’t work if you trade three of the best young starting players in baseball.

Rumors are rumors. For all we know, Colletti finds the idea of trading Chad, Matt and James for Cabrera just as absurd as fans do. Maybe letting that rumor sit out there helps raise the price for the Angels. That kind of gamesmanship is fine with me.

But if we see a massive purge of young talent in order to get one player, some of your best fans will revolt.

Build. From. Within.

Josh- Thank you for the early announcement. And also- PLEASE RELAY JOHNSTODDER’S POST TO NED COLLETTI. The rumors that we’re all reading are absolutely killing us. I agree John, if Ned is really playing the game and allowing those rumors to fester, kudos to him. But why is it that none of us would be surprised to see him pull the trigger on such an idiotic move?

Anyone read what Aaron Rowand’s agent had to say?? If not, here you go: “The interest is definitely mutual,” Landis said. “He definitely would be interested in hearing what the Dodgers have to say as time goes on. The Dodgers are apparently focusing on a veteran club and various ways to spend money. Aaron is a candidate, and so are other people via trade and free agency. It’s still in the early process.”

Now obviously Rowand is a good player and a huge upgrade from Juan Pierre. But we all know this wouldn’t be the end of Pierre it’d be the end of Kemp or Ethier or Delwyn. FOCUSING ON A VETERAN CLUB?!!!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! If I start reading about Loney, Bills, Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche, Delwyn and Ethier being ousted, johnstodder is absolutely spot on when he said “some of your best fans will revolt.” I WILL BE ONE OF THEM.

I was 10 years old when we won it all in 88. I’ve been saying, “wait ’til next year” for 20 effing years. Now that I’m excited by the core group of young (and inexpensive, mind you) players we’re considering trading them for old veterans and high salaries?!! Somebody pass the advil.

Excellent Post John. I couldn’t agree more.

Does HE or Doesn’t HE … Belong?
That is the question! Andy LaRoche continues to carry the U.S. Team with timely hits! Read on:

TAIPEI, Taiwan — Andy LaRoche hit a two-run homer in the first inning to lead the United States to a 3-1 win Friday over South Korea and advance to the semifinals of the Baseball World Cup.

The Netherlands upset host Taiwan 6-3 in extra innings, and Japan blanked Australia 3-0 to reach the semifinals.

The Americans will play the Dutch and Japan faces off against Cuba, a 6-0 winner over Mexico.

LaRoche, a third-base prospect for the Los Angeles Dodgers, paced the U.S., which scored again in the third inning. South Korea scored in the sixth.

Mexico replaced Panama in the quarterfinal round after the International Baseball Federation found that the Panamanians failed to insure some of their players during the group stage.

nice post John!

One disagreement with Stoddard’s post … I think KENT has performed much better than any of the other stiffs on the list and probably shouldn’t be on that list.

Nothing against Kent or any other player on that list. I agree, he’s been a great player at times. So was Sheffield. So was Brown. It’s not that the imported players are always so bad (except Pierre.)

The myth I hope gets dispelled some day is that we are one such player away from the playoffs. We’ve been one overpaid veteran away from the playoffs since 1989. We keep getting him and, darn the luck, we never seem to get any closer. Maybe the problem is, that plan doesn’t work.

I heard Buster Olney say that the Dodgers are making a “heavy play” for Rowand. If we do get him, then we should trade either Kemp or Ethier and Laroche and Mcdonald for Cabrera.

Josh:
Any word on what is up with Manny Mota. He has been a coach or player for the last 30 plus years but he is not on your list?

Thank you

John –
With that said, I’m on board with you! My single greatest fear is to see the “Pedro Martinez” trade repeat itself this year.

Everytime I hear Vinny say ‘ex-Dodger’ so & so, I cringe because they ALWAYS come back to haunt us in any given series.

I’m tired of it and I want to see our youth develop into stars. If we’re wrong – then so be it. At least we can say we have tried it both ways (1 vet away AND wait for our youth).

I’m against any trade of youth, but if Frank and Jaime want to bring me Torii or Andrew with cash, I’m all for that! A-Rod would have been nice, but since he remains a Yankee, I can be rest that he won’t be an Angel.

I have been a Dodger fan since 1968, the ONE thing I cannot stand is the ANGELS beating us at anything. Their biggest victory came in getting Vlad, while our deal fell through because of the Fox sale to McCourt. I’ll be more than happy to let them win the Cabrera sweepstakes as long as we get to continue with our youth, and they lose theirs!

I’ve been saying for years that Andy LaRoche is going to be great and it’s unfortunate that a large percent of Dodger fans apparently can’t see it. Open your eyes, people or at least try to be a little more patient.

here here john.

Cosmow123 –
Mota is in the same mold as Lasorda in all the Dodger eyes. If he wants a position he will be there! I wouldn’t fret him not being on the list!

Yep, i saw him play in JAX and felt he was the best player on the field that also included MArtin, Kemp and Loney.

He will our Ron Cey if we let him.

LaRoche will be a baller. Hopefully for us.

Mota still with the team!
Here’s the coaching press release:

LOS ANGELES — Dodgers manager Joe Torre on Friday filled out his coaching staff, which included the return of pitching coach Rick Honeycutt and first-base coach Mariano Duncan.

Torre also will have Bob Schaefer as his bench coach, and Ken Howell will be promoted from Triple-A pitching coach to Major League bullpen coach. They join third-base coach Larry Bowa and hitting coach Don Mattingly, whose hirings were announced last week.

Special coach Manny Mota is expected to return, although details have not been finalized. Bullpen catcher Rob Flippo also is expected back.

Kemp is more dynamic. Loney is a better pure hitter but LaRoche is our best young power and patient guy..

Great post John.

Do you have any GM experience?

Jungar could be asst gm.

I don’t get it! We say we need help in CF, yet we have a player that other clubs are trying to snag from us to play CF. We say we need power at 3B, yet we have a player who other clubs will be happy to take for their 3B and who is currently demonstrating to all the world his enormous potential. FORGET A VETERAN CLUB AND GO WITH THE ENORMOUS YOUNG TALENT THAT WE HAVE!!! Why are the Dodgers trying to spend mega bucks for equal or less veteran talent? Does Frank have money burning a hole in his pocket? Or does Ned have such a big ego that he needs to make news splashes by signing and overpaying veteran “talent”. Please wise up, or the Rockies are going to pick up some new fans!!

Cabrera is not a veteran, hes only 24. I think hes the same age as Laroche. I much rather have him at third

Maybe with the way LaRoche is playing we can go Laroche, Kershaw and Abreu for Miggy…

I would do that. He is only 24. LaRoach can hit, but Miggy is a monster and the same age.

I say laroche ethier and mcdonald for cabrera. and then sign rowand jones or hunter

Find Team USA’s stats for the Baseball World Cup at: http://s29178.gridserver.com/images/country_stats/usa.htm

Andy LaRoche: 25 Plate Appearances, .429 average, 9 hits, 3 walks, 4 doubles, 2 homeruns, 10 RBI, 6 Runs

Only the much-touted Evan Longoria is even in the same universe with him among the American hitters.

No more than what “ricky” is offering.

I say laroche ethier and mcdonald for cabrera. and then sign rowand jones or hunter

I am down with this plan 100 percent

oh wait no I am not.

Rowand/kemp/ethier

they might want kemp instead of ethier, i would still do it though

The point of my post is that our FO has to stop applying the “prospect” tag to players that seem to have shown they can hit major league pitching or pitch to major league hitters and succeed. The theory of throwing a bunch of prospects into a trade for a guy like Cabrera is not all of them will pan out. That level of doubt/risk does not exist with Billingsley, Loney or Kemp anymore than it does for other young players — like Tulowitzki, Pedroia or the Yankees’ Cabrera. I agree, Cabrera might be a better player than any one of our current players, but he’s not better than three of our best players.

If the Marlins want quantity, then they should be willing to take hot prospects like Young, Hu, McDonald, Kershaw or LaRoche; two or three of those. If they want quality, then take Matt Kemp or James Loney straight across or with one prospect. They’re cheaper and would remain under their control for years longer, an important factor for Florida, so it’s fair. The idea that we should ship three starting players we’re counting on for next season to get one ridiculously undervalues our guys, and undervalues the challenge Ned would have in replacing them.

Shorter version: Cabrera for Loney, Kemp and Billingsley weakens the Dodgers in 2008. So why do that?

This talk of Pierre in LF is a total joke. Wake up Colletti!
What color is the sky in your world?

Every article about Rowand mentions this lunacy.

Among the many problems with Miguel Cabrera is the fact that he will not — arguably already cannot — play third base. His fielding percentage is rapidly declining so that there is every reason to believe his 2008 fielding percentage will be even worse than his weak .941 average in 2007.

Don’t tell me he can play the outfield. He’s already done that for a total of more than two full seasons and his lifetime fielding percentage there is about .970.http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cabremi01.shtml

Of regular MLB regular starting outfielders, only Pat Burrell had a lower percentage than that in 2007. And obviously Cabrera’s range will only grow smaller as he grows fatter.

He could probably play first base, but seems we’ve already got a guy over there who is likely to win several batting crowns while hitting 20+ homers a year.

In short, there is no place for Miguel Cabrera on the Dodgers. Great young hitter. Doesn’t fit on this Dodgers team. Lucky for him the AL has the DH.

Let me be the first to make this prediction (assuming nobody here has beaten me to it):

Sometime in the next eight years, James Loney will make the best run at .400 since John Olerud carried a .391 average into late August of 1993.

If the Dodgers do trade Bills, KEmp, Loney and LaRoche I will stop watching games or even going to games or even caring.

Ever since the team was sold to Fox the Dodgers have been a franchise of stupid moves.

How does Ned not realize that this takes our 3 very important starters and probably our 3 best players down the stretch last season.

These guys were the only reason we didn’t finish below the Giants last year. If we trade them it’s just ignorance. It’s a move that will alienate almost an entire fan base.

A trade like that would make the team worse.

also look at this Bulls hit that was reported today…

Rick Ragazzo was hired as a special assistant to the general manager. Ragazzo spent the previous 17 seasons with the San Francisco Giants, 11 as their director of international operations. Ragazzo was an assistant coach at Fullerton College (1985-88) and Loyola Marymount (1988-90) before becoming a scout for the Giants.

Josh, could you please tell McCourt that WE ARE THE DODGERS! not the freaking Giants. Stop hiring all of these old giants.

This Franchise is starting to already alienate it’s fan base.

I don’t know about Honeycutt but I’m glad Mariano Duncan is back.

I think this baseball world cup is Andy LaRoche’s coming out party. If he doesn’t get traded I bet he’ll be our starting third basemen next season.

I am fine with Buster Olney’s possible line-up:

SS Rafael Furcal

C Russ Martin

3B Cabrera

2B Jeff Kent

1B James Loney

CF Rowand

RF Matt Kemp

LF Pierre

Pierre in left is rough but it looks like that’s what we’re going to have to deal with (for at least next season). Cabrera in the line up with Kemp and Loney remaining looks creative enough (possibly LaRoche, Ethier, McDonald, Meloan??) Pickin up Rowand wouldn’t be terrible.

All I know is an offseason that ships out any one of Loney, Billingsley, Kemp or Kershaw is going to be a tough pill to swallow. Trade Loney and do what at 1st? Nomar? Correct me if I’m wrong but we replaced him with Loney last year. Trade Billingsley? Was he not our best 2nd half pitcher? Kemp? Yeah, that sort of raw talent, power and speed is easy to replace. Kershaw? 12.28 K’s per 9 isn’t very impressive.

Please hold. Please hold. Please hold.

If the Dodgers trade away Kemp, Billingsley, Loney or even Ethier, I will vote with my feet. No more games in Dodger Stadium.

Really.

These young players are exciting and fun to root for. They’re home grown, players to be proud of. Don’t trade them and their productive, cheap future years for millions of salary and declining players, or a player like Cabrera who may add to the logjam at first in a year or two.

Hopefully Ned is not as dumb as the media make him out to be with these trade rumours. Hopefully he learned from signing Pierre. And Gonzalez and Nomar.

Hopefully.

I just want a smart franchise to root for, not one embarassing itself with the highest payroll in its division and a weak fourth place finish. Only the second-highest payroll in the division finished worse than us in the NL West. The guys playing their young talent grabbed first and second.

Hmmmmmm …

im with griffon. We need to find a way to show our support for the young kids as well on the internet. I’m sure I am not the only one to notice this but the franchise, especially Ned, has shown a lot of disrespect towards our young guys. Ned basically blamed them for last seasons disaster just for the sole reason they were young kids.

One has to wonder why our kids are being accused of a lack of respect towards management and the older players. It might be because they got no respect in the first place from them.

We need to band together and support our youth. They are the generation of Dodgers that we will be telling our kids or grandkids about one day. Not the Jeff Kents and Nomars. We need to stick up for them and support them unlike management does.

Oh no Max I hadn’t noticed. LOL..

Ya you and I were saying that when they signed Nomar to play first base, last year.

griffon the dodgers payroll last season was higher (by 2 million) than the backs and rockies…… combined!!!

FYI

Josh added an update which I think helps calm some of our fears here.

Thanks Josh!

Respect has to be earned. Its all about what’s on the back of your bubblegum card.

Thanks for the very much needed update Josh.

The problem with moving Pierre to left is that Ned is afraid to admit the mistake. Trade him to someone with a salary dump and some prospects and we are good to go.

Well, finally I just read that the Dodgers are looking at ROWAND…That is the best center fielder on the market for the best price…Just what I wanted…lots of other teams looking too..hopefully we get him…would love that..was my first choice…good hitter, great fielder and a gamer…GET HIM NOW Dodgers..!!!

Not interested in Rowand – too many crummy seasons, career year on a contract walk season, hmmm? Very subpar 2005 AND 2006 numbers. He wants well more than $10M for at least 4 or 5 seasons. NO THANK YOU. That contract will only be the next albatross.

Thank you Josh. I asked and you responded just as I’d hoped. Obviously, you’re not in a position to guarantee anything, but it is helpful to be reminded of what Colletti has said about these players (which I hadn’t seen before).

I think the prospects image has stuck to these guys because, frankly, of the jealousy Kent, Lowe and Gonzalez expressed so publicly toward the end of the season and just after the end. Those three might want to consider whether the disrespect they perceived from “the kids” wasn’t an age thing. Kent and Lowe in particular have been problematic teammates throughout their careers. I respect their achievements, but as people, they’ve had problems with their integrity.

One last point. No thanks on Rowand. Jones and Hunter are certainly more than acceptable, but I think Rowand is a journeyman who had a good season.

john stodder is once again a man of reason.

Nice good news from Josh. A good post from johnstodder. And as usual, old-Fogey and jungar are right on (though you scared me for a second jungar, when you were willing to trade Ethier and it looked like Pierre playing left–but you quickly corrected it). And almost everyone posting here gets this.

The good news–it looks like Joe Torre does too. This was reported on ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3114503)(

* * *

Meanwhile, Torre said he’s had some time to familiarize himself with the Dodgers’ roster.

“I don’t know if there are any gaping holes,” he said. “I don’t feel like we have to do any overhaul.”

* * *

I LOVE Joe Torre. I think he’s reading this blog.

The story about Rowand is sickening. Rowand would be nice in CF (an improvement, to be sure). But as everyone points out, Pierre in Left Field is even worse than Pierre in Center. I am happy to just deal with him in exchange for a group that sees Loney, LaRoche, Kemp, Ethier, Martin around the rest of the field, and probably Tony Abreu starting once a week behind Kent and coming in for the late innings in most games.

What was horrible about the Rowand story is his agent saying that the Dodgers are focused on a veteran club and looking to spend (i.e. blow) money. The 2007 off-season version of this was Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez. Perhaps we should go with Joe Torre’s idea and not make any overhaul.

Those LaRoche World Cup numbers are stunning. Imagine if he pans out like Loney and Kemp are doing. That’s a murderer’s row!

I will note, in response to MartinLoneyKemp, I don’t know if Loney can challenge .400. I love the guy, and it’s a great swing that he has, but not a lot of speed. You need some of the breaks that a guy like Matt Kemp got, when he hit little nubbers but could not beat them out (I don’t think Kemp can challenge .400, as you need the discipline and consistency that Loney has to do it). Both I could see hitting .350 in any given year. .400 is hard to do.

And, since I am writing about Loney, I was just thinking that. . .

My Loney has a first name,

It’s J-A-M-E-S

My Loney has a second name,

It’s L-O-N-E-Y

I love to watch him every day

And if you ask me why I’ll say

‘Cause James Loney has a way

With H-I-T-T-I-N-G!

If Colletti is truly committed to NOT trading the young players, then kudos to him. I honestly believe this team has enough talent right now to win the West. Everyone has pointed out that the 2007 Dodgers had the best record in the National League well into the summer. So why panic now? Let’s see if Torre can instill some pride and teamwork in the clubhouse. If he can’t, then no trade will change that reality anyway.

from the new article up “…While the Dodgers would prefer to deal Juan Pierre or Andre Ethier”… victory! ok i know we’re not going to trade pierre but maybe theres hope that they at least *want* to trade him.

All things considered fellow Dodger fans…Jones, Hunter or Rowand?

-Juice

Brooklyn, NY

Dear Mr. Colletti,

Please do not get a free agent center fielder without shipping out Juan Pierre. We want Ethier and Kemp to play too.

Sincerely,

IMO Jones>Rowand>Hunter, mostly because of age. Jones has the most upside, Hunter is too old to give a 5 or 6 year contract.

IMO: Jones is the best bet, but for 1-3 years only to see if he wants to bust his butt or not.

I know we hate Ned dealing with the Giants all the time, but didn’t they want Pierre last year as well? Time for ned to use his Brian Sabean friendship and get JP out of here.

Well that article makes me feel a heck of alot better.

ha yeah the Dodgers really killed that fired.

Pierre for Linecum make is happen Scott.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2302069&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

The article on Dodgers.com

Hunter I don’t want any part of, and it will take a 4-5 year deal at least to get Rowand or Jones. The big question is do you assume last year was a fluke for both men in their walk years. Jones had his worst season ever at age 30 and Rowand had his best season ever at age 29.

Jones has never had the average but he walks a good amount (.80 difference Avg to OBP) has tremendous power, great glove and a gun. His downfall with all low average/high power hitters is he strikes out a lot. With that said I think Jones is the better choice of the three, but I wouldn’t touch any of them if Pierre plays in left field, but if I had a deal in place to move Pierre. I’d try to sign Rowand or Jones, preferably Jones.

Josh*** I haven’t read your above blog, because of a lack of time, but I will be back later. I just want to say that I am glad that Ned is shying away from trades because I agree I don’t like the one for Cabrera. Are they crazy? I know they don’t expect us to break up our team for him. We do need offense and it looks like the free agent route, like I always thought, is the best way.

Definately agree with Alex and most others that a FA signing in the OF is pointless unless we deal JP… I was very enthused to read that quote about the Dodgers wanting to deal Pierre or Ethier— that is great news…

Now, the FA debate– its tough. I like the way Rowand plays the game A LOT– hard nosed, good leader, So-cal kid. That being said, Jones definately is the best player, but it is going to come down to money. I just dont want Jones for more than 16 mil a year– id give him more if he takes a 3 year deal, but i dont see that happening with a player of his caliber. I’d say its btwn. Jones and Rowand simply bc Jones is giong to take Hunter type money, but he is clearly the better player…

Well Im back****It’s great to add another former Dodger to our coahing staff in the person of Ken Howell. Honeycutt did a good job with our pitchers. I welcome him, and the rest of the former Dodgers Mota & Duncan back. Welcome back Ron Flippo. With four former Dodger players on the staff I guess it’s O.K to have Bob Scheafer as Torre’s coach. (sounds like a former beer sponsor) lol, just joking. Larry Bowa should add some life to that 3rd base coache’s box and the Don has the toughest spot on this team as hitting coach. I see another ex-Giant in Rick Ragazzo has been brought over to our side. As we all know the scouts play a very important role. The better they are the better the team is. Just tell them to concentrate on finding some power hitters. Great to read LaRoche & Del Young are playing so well. If only LaRoche could carry some of that good hitting into the majors, maybe we wouldn’t have to try to get guys like Cabrera.

RICKCINDYH::::Refering to your post at 11:21AM PT November 16:: above. You said you’d rather have Cabrera than LaRoche. It would be good if we could just swap them, but we can’t.

RICKCINDYH Your trade of LaRoche/Ethier/McDonald for Cabrera. I wouldn’t trade Ethier but I would do it this way. LaRoche/Young/Kershaw/McDonald for Cabrera. Let’s put it this way we are trading for 2008 not 2010. We need him now. I would like to keep LaRoche but he becomes expendable once we have Cabrera.

signing free agents is a very risky business, but
trading our young players,

like bills, broxton, kershaw,

martin,loney, la roche, and

kemp is like loaning your enemy bullets, they will come back and shot you, over and over, these young players will all be

productive players for a long time.

we also have mcdonald, hu, abrue, d. young and a second wave of prospects coming,

the fewer moves ned makes, the better our future is, so I am hoping ned saying he won’t trade 3 or 4 players for miggy is good news,but I still have a nervous stomach every time I open the web, or newapaper. keep protecting our prospects, and young players, please one last thing, if we sign a centerfielder, by all means, trade pierre, we need kemp and ethier, and d.young in our outfield

My aplogogies to Todd Helton who made the last serious run at .400, seven years after John Olerud’s run.

leekfink points out that speed is an important element in challenging a .400 batting average. While I agree that speed certainly helps batting average, it is not essential in getting to, or at least close to, .400. And just to restate, my prediction is that Loney will CHALLENGE .400; I doubt that he will actually finish a season there, just give it an exciting run.

Here is a list of some players who challenged .400 along with the easiest indicator of speed I know — number of stolen bases:

John Olerud (.391 into late August, 1993) — 0 SB

Tony Gwynn (.394 when the ’94 season was halted) — 5 SB

Todd Helton (.391 thru the end of August, 200) — 5 SB

Ted Williams (.406 in 1941) — 2 SB

Would give anything to find out what trade was a done deal until the other team got cold feet. Just to see what direction Ned is heading or his frame of mind.

MartinLoneyKemp–John Olerud, I can’t fully explain, so maybe that could mirror Loney. The one thing about that it that 1993 was an expansion year, which always throws things, and inflates offensive statistics.

Todd Helton plays in Colorado. Loney would hit .400 in Colorado.

Tony Gwynn and Ted Williams–two great pure hitters. Even though I could see Loney’s overall career being better than Gwynn (defensively better–like the young Tony Gwynn the whole time, and better slugging), Gwynn could punch out singles like crazy.

I really like the Gurnick Hot Stove article. Torre adds “I’m more familiar with the names of our guys, the Kemps and [Andy] LaRoches and Loneys.” That’s great news.

That Ned is acknowledging that the trade value is too high is a good sign that maybe he is getting it. The fact that everyone wants these guys (esp. the player with the highest upside potential in Kemp should be a clue to us that maybe we have something special).

YES We do have something special, we seem to have 4 positions down pat in the infield, including catcher, if Kent returns. 3b is up for grabs but it’s a good spot to put a power hitter we haven’t got yet. The outfield is closed if you count Pierre. We need Schmidt to come back strong to join the rest. Our bullpen is sound. If we can get somebody with HR power to play third, without disturbing everybody else………………….

In my mind, one simple fix would do it for our every day player positions. That would be to get Rowand for CF and to get rid of Pierre, Period. Having Pierre, whether in CF or LF messes up the whole outlook, so let’s concentrate on just getting rid of him.

Let’s not forget that we’ll have Nomar for another year, and he’ll at least be sharing third base to start out the season. Seeing what LaRoche is able to do when healthy, even though it’s against less than full major league competition for the U.S. Team, makes it all the more important that we give him the chance to take over third as the season goes along.

That means the we can concentrate our trade talk toward getting a real starting pitcher, like Santana or even Gorzellany. I think it will be too early to expect Kershaw to make it with the big club this season. It would be a real long shot for Schmidt to come back or for Loaiza to make a positive impact, and Lowe is not likely to come back with us for 2009. Lowe might even be a good trading card for us at mid-season along with Furcal because of their contract situations.

While it’s nice to think about getting quality players such as Cabrera, Santana, Rowand, etc. I think the cost is too high, and realistically, until Wolf went down, the Dodgers were the best team in the NL last year. Hindsight being 20/20, if Bills and Loney had started the season as starters, conservatively that would be worth 4-6 more victories minimum. Combine that with a healthy Furcal, the Dodgers could have won 90 games. Going into 2008, where is the true weakeness? 3b-because Laroche is unproven and the 5th starter because of Schmidt’s health. If the Dodgers do no roster changes to their core group, the lineup has great potential:
Pierre-lf

Furcal-ss

Loney-1b

Kent-2b

Ethier-lf

Martin-cat

Kemp-rf

Laroche-3b

The only real unknown is Laroche.

The SP is decent with Penny, Lowe, Bills and Loiza-although I think adding a veteran to be the 5th starter may be needed because of Schmidt.

I think each off season teams get in a panic mode. Seriously-is Hunter worth a 5 year 75-80 mil contract? Do we want to have a 16 mil a year CF at age 38 in 5 years? Or Rowand-a year ago would anyone have considered giving him 13-15 million a year?

The Dodgers have their own talent which they have developed. Martin, Loney, Kemp, Bills, etc all played together and won together in the minors. Lets give them a FULL season together to see what they can do. This is the best group of players since the Dodgers had Pedro; Piazza; Karros; Mondesi; Astacio; Eric Young and Henry Rodriguez in the minors at the same time. As you recall, we traded Pedro; EY and Rodriguez before they could make an impact with the Dodgers and look how well that has turned out.

Let’s not make the same mistakes again.

Given the asking price for Cabrera and others, I have to agree with jkeezell. Colletti’s got it right. These youngsters of ours are major league now and no longer prospects.
I’d like to give Repko a chance in center and see if he can stay healthy.

at the end of the regular season i was immedietly saying we gotta get a big bat. arod or cabrera. and even in the last couple weeks i’ve been thinking, trade away the youngersters cause cabrera is our answer. but now,after looking at what we’d have to give up, the trade for cabrera would only hurt our club. i think signing rowand would be good for us, he’s got a good swing and is always playing hard. and trading away pierre would be the best bet. maybe him and a prospect. (not loney,billz,kemp,kershaw,laroche,etc.) maybe mcdonald. we could probably get a decent pitcher. and sign a veteran hitter to help the bench. or trade for another hitter and try and take a chance with fogg or colon. either way, getting rid of potential all stars and possible hall of famers is not the answer. i predict loney and kemp will have at least 25HR’s and 80RBI’s individualy.and larocher could hit 20 or so himself. not to mention billz will win 12-15 games and brox will be a top setup man. so is it worth it to give up a 15 win starter, 25homerun hitter, and fuetre ace for a 30+ hr hitter. not at all.

Why dont we let the MARLINS have a grab bag filled up with Kershaw, McDonald, Young, Meloan, Hu, Valdez, Miller, Megrew…etc…etc and let McCourt throw in some MONEY? I’m not saying they can have them all, but a few, let them have their pick, for CABRERA. Forget about tommorrow, NOW is the hour.

What is wrong with an outfield of Young, Kemp, and Ethier? Why do we need to pay $15 to $20 million a year for 4, 5, or more years to veterans who may have peaked and will decline in performance and/or become more injury prone as they get older? We have an outfield that can provide power at all positions. Use the money that can be saved to eat Pierre’s contract or enable us to trade him. Likewise, don’t make a foolish trade at 3B. Give LaRoche a chance. He has great potential. These players, along with Loney and Martin, provide the most exciting potential for a Dodger dynasty in years. Don’t break it up. Hasn’t anything been learned from the past? Long-term contracts to veterans have been miserable failures. A new approach is needed and we have the players to make it work. Please don’t doom the Dodgers again. Other NL West teams have wised up and are not making these kind of mistakes. If we continue with the outmoded thinking of the past, we will continue to be a fourth place team. Give Dodger fans something to be excited about as they watch a Dodger dynasty develop and their players become the superstars of the future!

This is my last take on this.How many agree…Get rid of Pieere,@ whatever cost,Sign Santana and finally,
IF Repko, is able to come back as the Repko, we knew, which means (Pain Free),Put him in CF, along w. Eithier & Kemp, and we’re done….Nice..

Addendum, to my last post (Above)…Add Young, as our 4th O.F…..Thanks….

I like Repko, but in all honesty, I think he’s a 4th – 5th outfielder at best.

Get outta here dodgerDUD, I’d still rather have Repko out there instead of your boy Juan F. Pierre.

I truly believe Repko is going to be non-tendered I don’t see a spot for him, he’s out of options and arbitration eligible. But, aside from that there’s no way Repko will get a starting job in center for this team. He’d be an ok right handed bat off the bench and the type of player to give Ethier a game off. But I agree with DD17 he’s no more than a 4th outfielder at best on this team for sure.

Just got word from MLB that tonight in the 2007 World Cup, the U.S. beat the Netherlands, 5-0 to advance to the finals against Cuba tomorrow at 12:30 a.m. PT. Team USA has not won the gold at the World Cup since 1974 and Cuba has won the last night straight…should be quite a game and here’s hoping Young or LaRoche put the final touch on a gold medal.

baseball-reference.com’s stat of the day for Nov. 12 was most consecutive games 1993-2007.

On the inital list Juan Pierre is #5 with 45 consecutive no-RBI games in 2006.

When a requirement of a minimum of 2 AB per game in the streak was added, Pierre moved to number one on the list with his 45. “Superstar” Eddie Perez was #2 at 34.

Pierre did much better in 2007, never going more than 14 games without an RBI.

This is the guy Colletti signed to a $45 million contract and is considering as a corner outfielder??!!

I’d rather have a 48 year old rickey henderson than juan pierre. My boy Juan Pierre??? get outta here!

Boy, it seems Keith Law really doesn’t like Colletti. Its seems like every time he talks about the Dodgers he takes a shot at Colletti. Can’t say I disagree with him though.
_____________________________

Andy LaRoche, third base, Los Angeles Dodgers

The Dodgers have apparently decided that 93 at-bats constitute enough of an audition, because they’re looking at other third-base options rather than giving LaRoche (who hit .309/.399/.589 in Las Vegas this year) a full-time shot at the job in 2008. LaRoche is a passable defender at third — he’ll never be plus but won’t have to move off the position — and his bat is well above-average for the hot corner. His power has improved over the past year, and his plate discipline is outstanding. He’s the type of player the Giants tended to undervalue while Ned Colletti was there, and we’re seeing some evidence that Colletti has brought that philosophy to L.A.

Perhaps Colletti has an ego problem. He doesn’t seem content to reap the bountiful harvest of what others have done in providing an exceptional crop of young players that other teams are longing for. He apparently wants to make a personal impact on the team by signing players he selects. The more mistakes he makes, the more he needs to find a successful one. Even the signing of Joe Torre is questionable. Although Joe is a proven top-flight manager and future Hall-of-Famer, he might not be the best choice for the young team the Dodgers should go with. But his signing made a big splash and brought attention to Colletti and the Dodgers, so that decision was made. A more appropriate choice would have cost millions less, but it wouldn’t have brought the one-upsmanship that Torre’s signing did. That’s the problem with playing the kids. Kemp, LaRoche, Ethier, and Young all deserve to play full time. They have proven themselves and would save millions and millions of dollars. But there’s no glory in that for Dodger management!!

you can watch “the kids” and the Team USA in the World Cup finals as well as past games here. http://www.stadeo.tv/baseball_world_cup_2007/games/ I think I saw a 12:30 a.m. start time somewhere.

The biggest problem above is getting someone to take Pierre off our hands. Who would have him? Other than that we have a wonderful team right now, but it would do us a world of good to add a power hitter. I don’t believe we should go for a free agent outfielder and than use one of our established outfielders in a trade for Cabrera. Since we never got a chance to bid for A Rod, The money we saved plus the 8 prospects(and other prospects we might have ), I mentioned above at 9:41AM PT, can be used to bargain for Cabrera and pay off a long term contract. Yes, they may come back to spook us and Miggy might not work out but that’s the chance you take. At least we wouldn’t use any of our established starters on the infield(we keep both La Roche & Abreu), our outfield, Starting & relief pitching. Good teams do it NOW, there will always be more prospects coming along.

I dont think ned had much to do with Torre. I think it was McCourt who as we know also has quite an ego.ned was largely left out of the loop. The McCourts courted other managers before firing Depo and they did it again. Ned is on a short leash no doubt, but theres no telling what kind of damage he will do to save his job in the meantime.

I have a feeling we get a CF, he moves Pierre to lf, either to rf and trades kemp for pitching or worse a 3b.

if i asked you all to raise your hands if you feel the same i think id get at 60 percent of the vote…

I, for one, do not think this is the course he goes. Kemp is not going to be traded unless it is an unfair deal for us– ie. Kemp for Santana/Bedard straight up, which is a great deal, but i really think Ned gets rid of Pierre. It is the most obvious and lowest risk solution to our power problem.
We have a solid front 3. We sign Pettite regardless, we re-sign Wolf, and hope Schmidt produces. It doesnt make sense to deal for pitching now when by summer demands will be significantly lower for those ace type pitchers… Do you see the Twins or the Orioles competing in their respective divisions this year? I do not.

Today I read that Colletti’s plan is too sign a FA CF, then package prospects in a trade for a new 3B or SP. While I see a need for an additional SP, I don’t see a need for “upgraded” 3B & CF.

CF: The problem IMO is too much playing time for Pierre. An OF of Ethier/Repko/Kemp + Pierre & Young would suit me fine. Torre could mix & match the whole group, with Kemp getting the most ABs & Pierre playing a reduced role if we can’t trade him.

If we must sign a FA CF, my preference would be A. Jones. Hunter wants too many years & Rowand is likely to regress after a career year in a hitters haven. Jones is coming off a bad year in which he still drove in more runs (96) than any Dodger despite a .222 BA. His negotiating power is weakened, and could accept a short term contract to re-establish his marketability for next year. I’d prefer to overpay in the short-term ($20 mil) if necessary. For 4 or more years I wouldn’t pay more than $12 mil/year. That may not be enough to get Jones/Rowand/Hunter, but as I already stated, our current OF should be fine.

The addition of a FA would require us to trade or DFA another OF. I sure hope it’s not Kemp. Kemp is a player to build around. The whole group has potential. If we sign a FA, we must trade Pierre or use him in a utility role.

3B: This is not a “hole” as the press has made it appear to be. LaRoche is a future superstar who is currently carrying Team USA. He should be good for at least 20 HR at minimal cost for 5 years. Nomar & Abreu are there to catch him if he falls.

SP: Okay, so there are no good FA available…except I’d be willing to take a flyer on Hiroki Kuroda…even though I don’t know much about him. He’s been successful in Japan, and I’d be willing to overpay for him instead of trading our prospects.

If we must make a trade I would prefer to include Pierre, even if we must eat most of the contract.

We must keep:

Martin

Loney

Billingsley

Kershaw

Elbert

Kemp

LaRoche…except in a Cabrera trade, &

Broxton.

I would only trade the following prospects if we get Bedard, Snell, or Gorzellany in return:

Abreu

Orenduff

McDonald

Repko…only if we sign Jones

Young…only if we sign Jones

Ethier…only if we sign Jones

Meloan

Dewitt

Bell &

DeJesus.

The best thing to happen to Colletti would be Pierre no longer here. How? I ask, How can that be done? What team can use him? I’m sure he would have been traded by now if a team had a place to put him. A very speedy, pretty good hitting outfielder with no power and worst of all a poor arm.

Being a left handed fielder, Pierre could play first base but no where else in the infield. To me, we already have a pretty good power hitting first basement with power. I guess a team needing a base stealing, first baseman with no power would have to be found.

Pierre certainly has value to a team needing a base-stealing lead-off hitter. I mean, the Marlins wons a championship with him out there. He’s just a bad fit for the Dodgers–a team that already has a bonafide leadoff man in Furcal and needs more pop in the order. I’m not sure where we’ll find a team needing a weak arm in center, though. Who doeas???And I’m not sure, in hindsight, how Colletti, Little and McCourt could have signed off on this deal. Surely their scouts must have known Pierre was bringing a Little League arm to a team built on pitching and “supposedly” defense.

From Yahoo Sports: “Yankees out, Dodgers in, Lowell chase?”

Please tell me this is a joke. Lowell’s splits away from Fenway are terrible.

As for Pierre…
I think the only teams that would consider him are:

Orioles

Rangers

Nationals &

White Sox.

I don’t care who we get in return. I just want to dump him.

We don’t need Lowell!! He wants four years at big bucks, and his own team won’t give it to him. Doesn’t that tell you something? Hasn’t Dodger management learned anything from their past mistakes? When the farm system produces some great talent, give them a chance! If we didn’t have anybody for 3B that would be a different situation. But that’s not the case, so why do we keep reading these stories?

Colletti probably wants to present the image that he is now “exploring every option” to improve the ballclub. If we’re lucky, McCourt has him on such a short leash, and probably just waiting for his contract to expire, that he won’t be allowed to make any deals that involve Kemp, Loney, Bills or Brox. Torre will probably have more of McCourt’s listening ear than Colletti. Colletti’s only assignment ought to be to get rid of Pierre.

Come to think of it, why is Colletti still here? It’s not too late to dump him.

FIRE COLLETTI!!!

Can’t tell you how happy I am that we won’t sign Arod given the pending deal with the Yanks. I fear an organization that ties up that much cash to a single player…

Josh, For several years I would watch for the Dodgers to make big deals either in the off-season or at the trade deadline and when those deals were not consummated I would be disappointed. This all changed with Adrian Beltre as fans were able to watch him struggle as a Dodger and finally have that great season in ’04. It was devastating to have him leave the Dodgers after that great season because the fans had lived through the growing pains. I know that Ned has to make a call for putting the Dodgers in the best position for winning, but my hope is that management will give Andy LaRoche a shot at playing full-time.

Hey Ned, if you’re any good at all, you’ll trade Pierre and Nomar. That will help the Dodgers.

Help; I need some education, here.If I’m the G.M. and i’m trying to sign a Pitcher, for my team (We could use Schmidt,as an ex.)So I have him take a Physical ?? He looks OK, even w/ X-Rays, Then what. Does the doctor(s) take him out to a park and watch him throw, ALL of his pitches???How does the MD know if ,the pitcher is in pain or not???How extensive is that physical ???I assume, we all, just take the word of said Doctor??? Does anyone have a clue. It could happen again, even with Santana >>>>

Sign both Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter, get rid of Pierres contract by trading him with a Meloan to the White Sox for Garland.

Keep Kemp in RIght Field, Repko will be a pinch hitter, Delwyn Young could go back to the Minors or be an outfield backup or maybe learn to play second base.

Then we trade Ethier away for maybe more pitching or a third baseman….sign Randy Wolf.

Our Lineup

Furcal SS

Martin C

Loney 1b

Jones CF

Hunter LF

Kent 2B

Kemp RF

LaRoche? 3B

Rotation:

Penny

Lowe

Bills

Wolf

Garland

Stults Hendrickson Beimel Broxton Saito in the pen

ghettoinsomnia

not bad… but it would never happen! LOL

The only move the dodgers need to make is to dump JP! and sign Rowand/Jones/Hunter!

LaRoche will be just fine! i like him at 3B!

and u’ve got a funny Pen…

Stults, Hendi, Beimel, Brox, saito for you?

what about Meloan, Proctor, Beimel, Brox and saito??

I just read that Garland rumor at DodgerThoughts. Then I visit here and see it…wow! I hope its not a dream. I would love to give them Pierre & Meloan for Garland, but I think they would want more…maybe McDonald/Orenduff, or Ethier/Young.

Any deal that gets a bonafide SP while getting rid of Pierre is worth it!

Make it happen Ned!

(pin drop)

Where did u see that Garland for Pierre/Meloan rumor?

i REALLY hope this happens:

“The Dodgers are definitely near the top,” Hunter told Yahoo! Sports. “With Joe Torre there, things have got to change. He’s bringing his history with them. I’m telling you, they’re going to start winning.”

hunter would really be a great fit for us. and unfortunately the pierre to garland trade isnt gonna happen since he was just traded to the ******* down the street for orlando cabrera

FORGET GARLAND…He was just traded to the Angels for Orlando Cabrera….nice that Coletti let the Angels get the jump.!!!

I don’t know if we really wanted Garland, but it never surprises me to see Colletti asleep at the switch. He’s got to be the most incompetent GM around today, and all of the other GM’s obviously know that. Why is the worthless so-and-so still here? Ask McCourt – only he knows.

FIRE COLLETTI!!!

Colette, seems to always Tip/Toe thru the process, until, ALL the prime players have been taken. He hesitates too much. He afraid of botching up a move…..

They traded their every day shortstop for a 12 million dollar 4th starter. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if there was a deal in place to acquire Garland to come to the Dodgers and the White Sox got ‘cold feet’ as Ned pointed out a few days ago.

To me it’s a odd deal. The Angels now have a gaping hole at short.

Rotoworld’s take: We happen to agree…

Angels acquired RHP Jon Garland from White Sox in exchange for SS Orlando Cabrera.

Rumors about Chicago shopping Garland have been around for years, but it’s surprising to see the Angels give up such a big part of their team for a pitcher who essentially becomes their No. 4 starter (albeit a very good No. 4 starter). Garland went 10-13 with a 4.23 ERA in 208 1/3 innings for the White Sox in 2007 and figures to see his ERA improve with a move to a more pitcher-friendly home ballpark. He’s entering the final season of his contract and will make $12 million in 2008. Erick Aybar is the obvious in-house replacement for Cabrera, but another deal could be in the works.

I think this is a good deal for the Angels, they are both in their walk years and the Angels hae youngers guys who can play ss. Cabrera isn’t THAT good and Garland will pitch decently. Now they can flip some of their pitchers for a bat. We could have easily gotten Garland if all it took was Cabrera. Grr.

Angel fans are not happy about this trade and most believe this is leading to a bigger trade for Tejada or Miguel Cabrera. Where Saunders or Ervin Santana may go in the deal, hence why they acquired Garland. Please Angels make the deal, make it so we can’t.

GO DODGERS!

Isn’t Wood (the Angels top prospect) ****? It sounds like a good move to me. Izturis played very well at 3rd for them last year, I could also see him filling in at short. Their rotation looks great:

Lackey

Escobar

Weaver

Garland

Saunders/Santana/Adenhart

Ned dropped the ball with that move, Garland would have been a real difference maker for us pitching in the NL West.

The Red Sox apparently re-signed Lowell, so thats one less bad move we have to worry about.

What the **** is wrong with Ned?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3118926

He offered Lowell a 4-year deal before Lowell opted to stay with Boston.

What is wrong with LaRoche playing full-time at 3B?

w0w

i think the Angels are going after miguel Cabrera… i smell something fishy in trading OC!

Figgins at Short?(he is very athletic)

Trade Kendrick and some top prospects for Cabrera?

Isturiz or Aybar at 2B?

Isturiz and Aybar did a great Job last season… i think the angels are confident on putting one of those two on the lineup anytime…

everything fits… i guess…?

really Ned is serious about getting lowell?

good thing Lowell decided to stay in boston!

what a stupid move will that be if that happens!

Just give LaRoche the chance!

WOW !!! 4 years for Lowell? Everybody knows that his offensive numbers are a product of the Green Monster and Ned wanted to give him 4 years? The Lowell you saw playing his last year in Florida is the Mike Lowell playing for anybody except Boston and maybe Houston. Thank you Theo for giving Lowell the $$$ to keep him in Boston. Ned, go on vacation until the end of spring training. When you get back, resign as GM.

And one more thing… stop signing freakin’ ex-Giants. This is the Los Angeles Dodgers orginization. Stop trying to make us the Los Angeles Giants. If you love those guys so much then do us a favor and go back and work for them.

I agree with Cameron about the ex-Giants thing. It’s sickening. It all started with Ned then it just went downhill from there. Especially after they fired Stan Johnson and went with Conte as the head trainer. That was hard to swallow. Johnson was the man for years and they just threw him aside like a chewed up piece of meat. One thing the McCourts don’t have Is respect for their employees.

Going back to that team with cold feet deal. I think it was the white sox but I don’t think it was for Garland. I think it was a deal for Joe Crede that fell through. I bet Either Pierre or Ethier was in the deal and Kenny Williams balked at it.

I agree max. I think a deal for Crede is what fell through. If that is the case then I’m glad the deal fell through because we don’t need him.

I hope the part about the Dodgers willing to go 4 years with Lowell is not true, but if it was, then Ned needs to go.

I also hope all this talk about Pierre in LF is some kind of plan to make other teams think he’s valuable, because if the Dodgers are serious about playing him in LF, I will be convinced that Ned knows nothing about baseball.

Dump Pierre! Save the Dodgers!

haven’t you already been convinced that ned knows nothing about baseball?

haven’t you already been convinced that ned knows nothing about baseball?

Posted by: jspelk2@uic.edu

Pretty much. I think Josh is holding out hope that we’re going to buy into this ****.

I don’t know why we would have wanted to go after Crede or Lowell. It sounds like just making some “busy work” by Colletti, so he can seem to be useful, WHICH HE’S NOT. I’m glad neither of those schemes worked. I wish somebody would keep tabs on him to make sure he doesn’t screw up this off-season. His only task should be to get rid of Pierre.

Sickening…
_______________________________

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7466954

UH OH>….Dodgers top club to get Cabrera…with giving up KEMP, LA ROCHE AND KERSHAW..
Doesn’t seem like such a good deal to me….

Manny3vee

I agree with you…I think Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw are too much to give up for Cabrera…when we look back years later I don’t think we’ll be happy, especially because Cabrera isn’t a good fielder….

Kershaw is supposed to be our TOP and really great prospect..I know he’s a prospect but I think giving him up would be awful!!!!!!!

Kershaw would be a dealbreaker to me. Insert mcdonald/elbert instead of him then maybe i could see it. Even then its a pretty steep package. You’d think the halos would be all over PigCab now that they have surplus pitching. I think IF it happens everyone would freak out for a few months but in the end we’d be happy to have him. Note, Im not saying I want this trade to go down.

If the Dodgers do trade Kershaw, Kemp and LaRoche for Cabrera then Colleti will be proven to be a liar as he has stated that the Dodgers are committed to the youth movement. Kemp and LaRoche are by far our 2 best young power hitters. Let’s give them a chance. Mr. McCourt, Please listen to the fans and do not allow Colletti to ruin all of the hard work that the farm system has done bringing up real talent. If this trade goes through it will do one thing for sure. It will replace the Delino Deshields for Pedro Martinez trade and the Piazza trade as probably the worst trade in Dodgers History. We will get an overweight out of condition soon to be overpriced third baseman who needs to be moved to left or first soon because he is a blimp in exchange for a five tool player (kemp), the best left handed pitching prospect in all of baseball (Kershaw) and a real power threat who in his limited appearances had a heck of an obp (LaRoche.) This is crazy

I agree Messagebear, Ned’s main goal should be to unload Pierre even if we have to eat half his contract. The price tag is way too high for Cabrera, especially when we have a legitimate above average prospect in Laroch. I would be happy to go into next season with Laroche at 3rd. He deserves a real shot and I believe he will be a better than average 3rd baseman. The outfield of Young, Kemp, and Ethier would be just fine also. Then take the money and fix the pitching. That is our biggest problem once we dump Pierre. Sometimes the best move is no move.

Obviously Colletti won’t trade Kemp/LaRoche/Kershaw for Cabrera or he would have already done it…that’s just the current asking price. I’d rather keep those guys, but LaRoche would probably be required to fill 3B for the Marlins + 2 other lesser prospects…maybe McDonald & Repko?

We need to let the Dodgers know that we will NOT accept Pierre as a starter on this team.

Let’s not get complacent about Pierre. Even if we were starting 7 A-Rod’s, Pierre still couldn’t be a starting outfielder.

HEY HEY, HO HO, Juan Pierre has got to go!

manny3vee, what is sickening is Ken Rosenthal throwing up that rehashed stuff as a new article. There is absolutely nothing new in that article regarding the Dodger, Marlins, Miggy, Kemp and the Kids, just the same garbage rumors from, likely, the same suspect “sources”. The only thing new in their is today’s OCabrera/Garland trade and Lowell’s signing. Big deal.

Ken Rosenthal is the same fool who flogged the Loney for Texiera nonsense all summer long, and that was based primarily on the desires of the Rangers.

You really have to read this weasels story closely to see that he is, most likely, full of it. Here’s what he says: “The Dodgers stand a better chance of acquiring Cabrera from the Marlins, major-league sources say, if they are willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp along with third baseman Andy LaRoche and Class AA left-hander Clayton Kershaw.” IF they are willing to part with all three. IF the Dodgers are willing to part with all three of those players, we could get almost anyone in trade.

Rosenthal then suggests that the Dodgers would move Pierre to left field and that this would make them better offensively. How does that work, exactly???

Rosenthal is really clearly pushing the Florida line here–grasping for straws to make it sound like a good trade. He brushes away the huge cost factor that comes with trading away 3 stars-to-be who are cost controlled for a guy who is not, ignoring that there is no limitless resources even for the Dodgers (for now). He says that there is pressure for Colletti to make a big move (there is not–Josh, we all want to make very clear–THERE IS NO PRESSURE FOR NED TO MAKE A MOVE–I THINK I SPEAK FOR ALMOST EVERY INFORMED FAN WHEN I SAY THAT STANDING PAT IS ONE OF THE BEST RESULTS THAT COULD HAPPEN IN THE OFF-SEASON. A lot of people rightly want a new Centerfielder, but not at the cost of displacing Kemp or Ethier–they want to move Pierre. Alot of people would have been on board for a free agent 3B–like ARod–but most people think that we should give LaRoche a real chance).

He also flogs the line about Kemp’s attitude. Basically, the only person who has said that has been Jeff Kent–a guy with known attitude problems (which is OK–fundamentally, if you play that well, it’s not a reason to be traded–which is why Kent would not be traded in his prime, and why Kemp should not be).

Rosenthal does not cite Dodger sources–or even Marlin sources–but “major-league sources.” Look, it does not take a genius to figure out that “IF” the Dodgers were willing to give up those three players, they would be the front-runner for any trade. In other words, some guy in baseball said “hey, if the Dodgers are dumb enough to give up talent like that, OF COURSE they’ll land Cabrerra.”

What that shows, more than anything, is that we should not be so dumb.

I still go back to what Torre said earlier, that he does not see any gaping holes or a need for a roster overhaul. There has been a lot of question over who/what philosophy has been guiding the Dodgers. I don’t REALLY know what Ned thinks (though we’re all scared that he is in love with old guys), and we assume that Logan White is for the youth movement. But I am pretty confident about this–the most important voice in player personnel decisions this off-season is not going to be Ned Colletti, Logan White, or Kim Ng. McCourt hired Joe Torre for a reason, and it’s because he’s the best baseball man in the organization. If Torre says to trade Kemp–he’s gone. If he says to keep him, he stays. Free Agents depend on numbers getting crunched, but I am relying on Torre here.

“According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, both the Phillies and Dodgers were apparently willing to go to four years [for Mike Lowell], ….”

No real source cited, plus the word “apparently”. Who knows if Ned has serious discussions with Lowell’s agent or not.

Thank you oldfogey and Leek– id like to echo both of your comments. People who hate Ned so much that they’re willing to latch onto the most unfounded articles really need to read things before they just whine.

Everyone forgets that Ned has yet to trade away a good young prospect, so why does everyone assume he is going to start now?

JOSH– THERE IS NOT PRESSURE FROM THE DODGER FAN BASE FOR A BIG MOVE THAT WOULD GET RID OF YOUNG PLAYERS. DFA’ing JP HOWEVER WOULD BE A BIG MOVE IM IN FAVOR OF…

And as for Lowell– dont you sheep find it interesting that there were numbers available for the Phillies offer but not for the dodgers???

Leekfink, oldfogey and ewk216 bringing it today. Good stuff and thank you for saving me from writing a long post. I could not agree more.

I agree with leek’s post above. Every rumor, free-agent deal is just speculation. It’s fun to read about, and wonder about before something really happens. It’s just that most people around here like to jump the gun and take every article or rumor and spin it to bash a specific person, whether it Ned, the McCourts, Josh, our any of our players. (As if other solid, hardcore facts, and comments based on things that actually happened already wasn’t enough).

Rumors are always rumors, and until I hear it straight from the mouth of Lowell or Dodgers front office about a 4 year deal being offered, who really knows for sure? If i recall during the middle of the season, it was speculated upon that A-Rod already had a deal in place with the Cubs, and it included an ownership interest. When A-Rod opted out of his contract, it was speculated that A-Rod already had a deal in place for well over the $300 million package he wanted. We all know what happened there. A-Rod went back with his tail between his leg and is “settling” for $275 million from the Yanks.

Sheep always like to complain. If we won the world series, the sheep would still complain about something. Perhaps, the t-shirt design, or the choice of champagne?

casino

people here knows it’s just a rumor…

what they mean is they don’t trust Ned!!

every rumor that has been read so far is a “Ned type of Deal”

its a rumor that Ned usually does in short!

its not about bashing someone…

people here are not stupid just to blame a thing to a person…

im suprise that ur not even scared on what u have been reading…

and ur having fun reading all of those trash?!

People who hate Ned so much that they’re willing to latch onto the most unfounded articles really need to read things before they just whine.

Posted by: ewk216@nyu.edu | November 19, 2007 04:06 PM

_____________________________

Ewk: I hope that comment isn’t directed at me. Nonetheless, tts a bit presumptuous to assume that others don’t have the ability to read things within context. All I did was post a link to Dodger article written by one of baseballs most reputable correspondents and express my disgust at its content.

I understand that 90% of rumors stories are probably BS . But for heavens sake, this stuff has been coming out non-stop on an almost daily basis for the past few weeks. There’s is a ton of smoke here fellas. I agree with Lee and others that writers tend to run wild with these rumors, but the rate at which they’ve coming out is definitely unsettling.

I’m no Ned-defender, but Colletti’s blunders do not included trading away the Dodger’s highly touted young players (the jury still being out on Edwin Jackson). He has traded prospects, but not the front-line types. Ned’s decisions that I hold as examples of his poor judgment involve offseason decisions with veterans: FIVE years for Pierre, TWO years for Nomar, offering TWO years to Gonzo (thank goodness he only took one), TWO guaranteed years with $8.7M guaranteed dollars for Tomko.

It should be pretty simple for Ned……..there are six guys in the Dodger organization that you don’t trade:

Martin

Kemp

Loney

Billingsley

Kershaw

Penny

(and you could make an argument for Hu as a seventh, but the Marlins are already set at SS with Ramirez anyway)

Anyone else in the Dodger system should be available for trade…….

Between young players like LaRoche, Ethier, Broxton (yes I would trade him in a package for Cabrera), Elbert, D. Young, Dewitt, Meloan, Abreu, Morris, McDonald, DeJesus, Bell etc. you should be able to build a more than acceptable package for the Marlins.

Add Cabrera to the nucleus of the six players listed above and build around those 7 guys for the next 5-10 years.

I honestly believe that the Dodgers can beat any other offer that the Marlins get for Cabrera WITHOUT getting rid of either Kemp or Kershaw, thats how loaded this organization is with young talent……..Ned just has to hold the line, be patient and NOT MAKE A PANIC MOVE. Worst case, we don’t get Cabrera and we plug in LaRoche at 3rd to platoon with Nomar (and he will probably have the job full time by the all-star break).

“Sheep,” LOL!

We’re all sheep!

Just sit back and reflect on how we follow this stuff religiously on a daily basis.

Give me a break guys, not one of us here is either enlightened or privy to insider information. Lay off the pedestal for a bit.

manny3vee, but they all emanate from the same source. One sportswriter takes a hit at the agent-fueled rumor-bong, then all the rest of writers do the same. Little of it turns out to be true. Before yesterday/today, had anyone heard speculation about O. Cabrera for Garland?

In other words, there not necessarily a lot of smoke indicating that there is a fire, there’s mostly just the same smoke, over and over again – or so it appears.

Fogey: You make great points and I tend to agree with you.

What bothers me is the tinge of elitism that shows up in some of the comments. Never from you though.

I realize stories are written to be read.

Nevertheless, I wouldn’t be telling the truth if I said I don’t get at least a little worried every time I read those kind of stories.

You wouldn’t be a human, Dodger fan if you didn’t get at least a little worried. Ned hasn’t inspired a lot of confidence overall.

Thanks for the compliment.

I thought this was about coaching. How do the Dodgers let Steve Yeager leave them?? Look back at the catchers that he has brout along, how do you think Martin would do if not for Boomer. Now look at all the new kids on the major roster, yes it was Yeager who had them in Jacksonville and Vegas. We need to bring back the Yeagers and Russells of the past to teach these kids how to WIN. They have been there and done that many times. Get back to tradition

You might as well throw your money away as spend it in gambling.Tomorrow will be a holiday.Someone is ringing the bell.All my best memories come back clearly to me, some can even make me cry.Her tooth ached all night.The old lady enjoys a quiet life with her family.The old lady enjoys a quiet life with her family.We just caught the plane.Keep in Touch.I don’t doubt that he will help me.

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