Industry Meetings

I arrived last night in Orlando for our Fall Business Meetings, which take place every other year and are a great way to find out what some of the good business practices of other teams might be.

This morning we heard from the No. 2 person at baseball, Bob Dupuy, about where we are heading as an industry and what we’ve seen take place since we all convened a couple years ago. The rest of the time we’ll break out into session that are more relevant to our specific fields, which in my case is Public Relations and Broadcasting.

Believe it or not, I just sat in a 75-minute session with all the other league PR directors and numerous others about new emerging media. While there is plenty to discuss on that front, in reality almost the entire session was dedicated to blogging. There are so many interesting ways out there to spread the word about the Dodgers and for you all to get to share your opinions and I’m proud that we were one of the first teams to start this kind of a forum to interact with all of you. From what we’re told, 23 teams currently have someone in the organization – broadcaster, player, front office exec, etc. – sharing their thoughts back and forth with the fans.

I probably won’t be able to post much for the three days I’m here but rest assured it’s only the business side people who are here with me in Orlando. Ned Colletti, Joe Torre and their entire baseball operations staff hasn’t stopped working towards putting together next year’s coaching staff and adding talent to the team on the field.



    Heres a Fan’s Opinion:

    Get Cabrera or Arod

    Then get a CF and a SP.

    We will come in record #s if you put a team like that on the field.


    Hope you have a productive time in Florida, Josh.

    Here’s something to think about. LaRoche is performing big time in a play-off atmosphere. Contrast that to A-Rod’s lack of production in the play-offs. I would be very careful before I would brush LaRoche aside and spend mega dollars for A-Rod. And before trading any of the kids, think hard about why everybody wants them! The names required to get Cabrera and rumored that we offered last year are totally ridiculous!


    Here’s another fan’s opinion:

    Don’t pay the price in prospects for Cabrera unless it drops significantly and doesn’t include the untouchables — we all know who those are.

    Keep the kids, and add through free agency and the fans will come in record numbers not only this year but for the next decade.

    On the other hand, trading the likes of Matt Kemp is one of the few ways the Dodgers could DECREASE my excitement about the team and thus negatively influence the number of times I go to Dodger Stadium.

    Cabrera is a great young player, but the homegrown talent is the type that captures my heart.


    The Marlins can ask for a kings ransom because there is no urgency to trade Cabrera. There’s just no reason for the Marlins to ask for anything less than Kemp, Bills, Kershaw etc from the Dodgers…would you? The same applies to what they’re asking of other teams. I don’t expect anybody to pay the Marlins price this offseason and if any team does bite the Marlins are the true winners.

    All A-Rod takes is a boatload of money, it’s really a simple choice. If you really want Cabrera wait until 2010, he’ll be on the open market and it won’t create any holes on your roster. Though I’m sure he’ll end up in the American League.


    “Then get a CF and a SP.”
    I love it, as if the master of the moronic didn’t go out and get 120 million worth of CF’ers and Pitchers LAST year (Schmidt, Pierre, Wolf, Loazia).

    And now you want him to go out and get a legit 3b? He spent 20 million on 1b/3b last year and we have 10 million locked in for the inferior talent than our own prospect…(Nomar/LaRoache)

    I wish my bosses would alloe me to fail so miserably.



    I’m a little wishy washy about dumping all of that money on A-Rod when Dodger Stadium is already pricing me out. Do you think we should go young guys or do we need a real star?

    If we go for Jones or Hunter, we might as well get A-Rod instead, but I don’t want to get rid of too much for Cabrera who is destined for the OF and then we’re in need of a 3B again…

    If we could package Colletti and Pierre for a bag of ??@#$#, I’d feel more relaxed.


    Wonder if Fukudome can play CF? He’s supposedly on par with Ichiro in his defensive ability. Might be a good option for us, if we can just concentrate on getting rid of Pierre pretty much at any cost.


    Oh Saint, I agree with you BTW (the sad part) we in fact do needto upgrade those two spots to win……I was just making a point.

    Scott my opinion changes all the time!!

    -The ticket prices etc will go up no matter if we have A-rod or not. McCourt has proven that already.

    -Right now I am on A-Rod/Andrew Jones/Rowand/Hunter or no one but with an asterik

    (asterik) CF or no one would only be fine with me if Pierre is off the roster or not guarnteed to be starting. 100 million for Andre Jones, just to get rid of Ethier and play Pierre in LF is wasting more money than simply eating Pierre’s contract.

    -Piggy Miggy works for me (even if he will be needing to play LF soon) as long as we are only giving up one major prospect (which is unlikely and why I sorta am A-rod or nothing) But if they will take Kemp and frindge prospects, I wouldn’t be oppossed.

    Pitching, more than anything, is what is really needed IMO

    As for A-rod..I’d like to go record as saying he is my least favorite ballplayer of all time besides Bonds. And that’s saying alot. I don’t really want him, but if we got him I would also be stoked because there is no denying his’s a catch 22. So those who say they don’t want A-rod because it will be his team more so than “the dodgers” I am on board with..

    I was on record here a few times this year (before the season, and during) saying that I don’t mind loosing (don’t like it either) as long as its our kids and they will improve and are players I want to root for. I still mean that. We could have come in 4th place just as easily of Nomar ,Schmidt, gonzo, Pierre etc..werent ever on the 07 team. I suggest we would have been a much better team without any of them. So let’s not let Coletti make the same mistakes again.

    A-rod rules I get it, but I, already, would be rooting much harder for LaRoche, primarily because so many of you guys and the national media says we have a hole there, when he is one of the top 20 offensive prospects in baseball. I root much harder for our kids to get great and come together as a unit to win (the process) more so than a team full of mercenaries..


    “…I probably won’t be able to post much for the three days I’m here but rest assured it’s only the business side people who are here with me in Orlando. Ned Colletti, Joe Torre and their entire baseball operations staff hasn’t stopped working towards putting together next year’s coaching staff and adding talent to the team on the field….”

    You mean to tell us that there are supposedly people in the employ of the Los Angeles Dodgers that responsible for the product and the quality of said product?

    Wow, one would never know this was the case based on the past 20-years….who knew?


    btw, I was under the impression that all Dodger production has been off-shored to Asia, South America and Mexico…you know labor costs being what they are in the USA and those pesky civil rights and EPA restrictions or what not…better to employ a bunch of endentured teenagers in places w/o child labor laws and such to develop.


    Josh–While you are in the industry meetings, I thought I would remind you of something that came up earlier in the year. You mentioned that there are recordings of Dodger games that are being digitized. I think that it would be fantastic business to make those available to fans on-line. I know that I would be happy to pay to download class Vin Scully to my iPod (the price point needs to be worked out, but I think that the market is undeniable). It’s a revenue stream that is thus far untapped, and frankly, it is one that the Dodgers would have a distinct advantage over most teams with–after all, I don’t know anyone who would pay to listen to Rex Hudler.

    I also second everything Jungar just posted (except for trading Kemp for Piggy Miggy–not because I disagree with his assessment of the trade, which would probably be a good move for us analytically, but largely for the same reasons that he says later–I would rather root for one of our own prospects). But his points are spot on.

    And, on that note, James Loney tied for 6th in NL Rookie of the Year voting (though with only 1 vote). If he had been up at the beginning of the year . . . .


    Lee I always enjoy your post, espically when we agree.

    No, just kidding….but we have been agreeing alot lately!!


    Josh – why is there little-to-no pub for the Dodger boys in the red, white and blue, namely Andy LaRoche and Delwyn Young? Team USA in the World Cup is doing well and so are the Dodger prospects on the roster. They are playing alongside other blue-chip prospects (like Evan Longoria, who is the only think keeping LaRoche from being the #1 3B prospect in baseball.) It would be nice to read about them on (Chin-Lung Hu is playing for Taiwan, isn’t he?) In fact, it is feeling like a lost opportunity to talk up the youngsters positively while they represent the U.S. in international competition.

    At least some of the bloggers notice.


    Well played Fogey….and so true…I wish the dodgers would talk up their younger players instead of talking them down.


    good opinions, jungar.

    The Cleveland Indians went to 2 WS with mostly home grown talent

    but couldn’t hold on to them forever (Manny, Thome). The Dodgers have the means to sign these guys once they’re ready for the big bucks down the road.

    Get rid of Pierre, sign Rowand, and trade for Dan Haren maybe?


    Everyone keeps talking about the big name bats as the answer for all the Dodger woes, but the primary culprit of the collapse last season was the pitching – not the hitting! Starters were ineffective and the bullpen blew several games that brought the Dodgers down. Loney’s hot bat probably produced as much as A-Rod or Cabrera would have, and the Dodgers had enough runs to win most of the stretch games if they had gotten decent pitching. I still think we can win with the bats we have. But if we could dump Pierre and maybe pick up Hunter or Rowland, that would make it easier. I think Jones is overpriced and risky. Give LaRoche a chance at 3rd with Nomar as backup, and with Kemp and Ethier in the lineup everyday and Torre focusing on playing as a team, I think there will be plenty of run production for adequate pitching. So improve the pitching without giving up the kids and we should have enough to win.


    I should add that I don’t think that signing A-Rod will directly affect ticket prices. Ballpark attendance is a big revenue stream, but in LA, media, licensing, etc. is likely just as big. And to an extent, I am pretty sure that A-Rod would sell more jerseys.

    Theoretically, ticket prices will go up as attendance goes up. At 3.8 Million fans this year, that’s record attendance, which means that the team can increase prices and still draw. I think that this probably works pretty well in terms of market theory to application.

    I also think the team has been good at recognizing that, for better or worse, the “experience” is a critical factor in attendance (and thus ticket price). Big companies who like to woo people will prefer private boxes, exclusive benefits, etc. That is why McCourt is investing in additional amenities and clubs in the stadium. They have also done well in pricing–there are alot of deals for “off-peak” nights–2 for 1’s, family fun packs, etc. for weekday games and the like, which has served to maximize attendance.

    I think the only way that A-Rod will affect ticket prices is in two possible ways, one of which is decidedly good:

    1) A-Rod will add cachet. just like when Magic was with the Lakers (and later Shaq and Kobe). It’s tinseltown, and stars beget stars. The Dodgers have not had a star attraction like this since Lasorda retired (with the possible exception of Piazza, but the timing was about the same).

    2) A-Rod improves our chances of winning. People are more likely to want to come to the stadium when the Dodgers win. As more people come, the market will bear higher prices (see above). Like I said, that’s a very good side-effect.

    And credit should go to the team for keeping a pretty affordable ticket in the Top Deck and the Pavillion for a lot of years.


    I’d rather have A-rod than Cabrera. It’s already been pointed out that Alex would take a boat (a big boat) load of money. McCourt’s got that. To get Cabrera would cost some of the kids and create some voids on the roster. Not a good idea at all.
    Maybe it would be better to give LaRoche a shot and concentrate on starting pitching and a center fielder.

    I’d be in favor of giving Repko a shot in center, but he keeps smashing into things.


    Really, other than Saito and Beimel (which I will give him the credit even though deep down i don’t think he deserves it) has anythng that Ned has touched, pitching wise worked out?









    Proctor might turn out ok.

    Were Lance Carter and Hamulak Ned acquisitions as well? (file under bad)


    Hamulack came with Seo and Carter with Baez.

    Not re-signing Gagne doesn’t look too bad at the moment.

    David Wells as a desperation move wasn’t too bad; he gave what was expected (some ok starts, some bad starts) and only cost (too much) money.


    The Dodgers also got 24 decent innings (and 2/3 of a horrible inning) out of Chin-hui Tsao for the minimum salary before he went down with (another) injury.

    Yes, you have to dig deep to find good pitching acquisitions but, to be fair, pitching can be like that.


    Rivera is quoted as telling an AP reporter in the Dominican Republic that he’ll consider Los Angeles once he can talk money with other teams. “The Yankees are my first option,” he said in Santo Domingo. “But if that is not possible, there is Joe with the Dodgers.”

    we have a closer…No thanks Mo.


    Well the doors open at midnight that’s 9:00PM PT. Those that have to will be placing their hand on the pocket that holds their money. I doubt they’d have it on them. It would be to much to carry. I guess the little check book will do. Did anybody take a look at what they wrote on Olmedo Saenz in the free agent update? Take a look and have a laugh. You’ll find it when you open the article about Jeff Kent.


    I would be so pissed if I was MCcourt…But Neddie, didn’t you get us a CF last year?

    Yeah well I did, and he played exactly as expected but he isn’t very good. We need an upgrade Frank, he can’t hit and has no arm.

    Colletti explores free-agent options

    A center fielder or third baseman is possible on the open market, though the Dodgers’ general manager says the team has not decided whether to pursue Rodriguez. He also says pitching will probably come via a trade.,1,2980181.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=3&cset=true


    I think we could do well with pitching in the free agent market. Hiroki Kuroda is someone we could go after, so is Josh Fogg and Carlos Silva.

    We don’t need another “ace” last time Ned tried to bring in another Ace we got Charlie Brown with a bum shoulder.

    We just need to sure up the back end of the rotation.


    the thought of pierre in LF repulses me. seriously, its an absolute joke. any kind of trade scenario scares me, because i doubt we would get the better end of it. max you are right we need a good back end, we don’t really need another ace and certainly shouldn’t spend lavishly on one after “charlie brown”, haha.


    I like how Ned thinks third base isn’t our biggest hole. I really think If LaRoche has a good spring or at least a better spring then Nomas he’ll be our starter.


    Bill James’ 2008 player projections are out. Here is how he projects a few Dodger players of interest. -from dodgerthoughts commenter-Xeifrank

    Player /Ave/Obp/Slg/Ops

    Kemp /.322/.365/.521/.873

    Ethier /,304/.371/.477/.847

    Kent /.290/.368/.486/.854

    Martin /.292/.379/.456/.835

    LaRoche /.275/.367/.458/.825

    Loney /,321/.372/.465/.823

    Nomar /.292/.347/.451/.798

    Furcal /.286/.352/.403/.755

    Pierre /.298/.343/.361/.703


    AROD /.300/.406/.586/.992

    A.Jones /.253/.343/.491/.834

    T.Hunter /.274/.329/.482/.811


    i don’t really put too much into those projections. if you look at the ones from 2007 they are way way off in many respects.


    seriously where does get the mental defectives to write for their web site?

    Dodgers: An uncertain personnel picture, considering the health questions of Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf and the payroll if the Dodgers go after Rodriguez, and yet the Dodgers have talented veterans and prospects to deal and thus the flexibility to fill their holes any number of ways.


    The only talented veterns I can think of are Penny, Lowe and Saito. Beimel is pretty good at what he does to.


    We have enough prospects to deal for 24 year old Cabrera.

    We can always fill out in the Free Agent Market.


    I’m torn on the Cabrera thing. He’s put up amazing numbers and he’s only 24. I don’t think his weight is that big of an issue but it could be. I can see giving up LaRoche and Kemp for him but I can’t see getting rid of Loney and Bills. The problem with this deal and the deal with signing A-Rod is that we need pitching and a centerfielder more than we need a third baseman. If LaRoche can stay healthy then I think he can do the job, but will he stay healthy? As much as I don’t like Kemp, I’d rather see him stay if he isn’t going to be traded for starting pitching.

    So I think we need to pass on A-Rod and Cabrera. Sign Jones or Hunter(I’d prefer Jones). Let LaRoche play 3B. Trade Kemp and a couple prospects(not Kershaw) for an outfielder and a starting pitcher. I’d also try to package Nomar, Pierre and maybe Stults and Hull together and send them to the American League for maybe an outfileder/backup third baseman and a good number 4 or 5 starter that could give us 1 to 3 good years until our younger pitchers are ready to contribute at the big league level. But I’d have to pass on A-Rod’s big money and Cabrera’s possible weight issue.


    Regarding the Bill James’ projection list above: say what you will but the WORLD SERIES CHAMPION Boston Red Sox pay that man a significant salary for his statistical analyses, which I assume go far beyond what he publishes on his web site. His projections carry a lot more weight than my, or most anyone else’s, opinions here.

    To me, the interesting lines are Ethier’s (bit of an eye-popper), Kent’s dropoff being small, and how little an improvement (if at all) offensively Jones and Hunter are UNLESS PIERRE IS DROPPED from the starting lineup.

    “i don’t really put too much into those projections. if you look at the ones from 2007 they are way way off in many respects.” – Posted by: | November 12, 2007 11:08 PM

    I’d like to see a plot of all the 2007 (and previous) projections and how close they predicted reality, the difference between projection and reality. I’ll bet that if you make the y-axis “number of players” and the x-axis “projection minus actual”, you get an approximate bell-curve shape that centers near zero.


    About LaRoche, Young in the world cup – there are articles at the minor league site, and there is coverage by the International Baseball Federation at


    You have to include Jeff Kent in the talented veteran list. Sure, he has the range of a rosebush now, but the .875 OPS (approx line was .300/.375/.500 wasn’t it?) can’t be ignored. Furcal is still a decent SS, and not a liability on offense, esp if he hits low in the order – he’d be cool as an AL 9th place hitter.


    Yeah I did forget about Furcal but I’m not including Kent because he’s only good for 1 more year. Yeah he’s a vetern but he isn’t staying with the club for more than 1 more year.


    Cameron you so crazy. Let me stop you here. No one wants Juan Pierre or Nomar. Not for 46 million dollars. I would be more than happy just to get both off the roster for free with no players coming back. Getting them off the roster and playing better players that we already have (Young, LaRoche) is about the best I could hope for. It won’t happen though. We are stuck with them.

    About the projections..I simply posted them, not saying to belive them, but in general I agree with Fogey. Bill James knows his stuff.

    (Thanks Eric Stephens for this info below):

    .301/.362/.453. that would be our average projection for all 8 hitters combined…thats pretty **** good. And supports those who say, pitching, more than hitting will be the 08 problem if not fixed.


    Here’s a trade possibility:

    Pierre and $$$ to Chi Sox for Garland. I know Garland isn’t great but he would make a fine #4 and we free ourselves of Pierre (the Sox are reportedly interested in speed and need a CF). This would open up the door for a Jones signing and we suddenly have a great OF. LaRoche/Hu/Nomar/Abreu between the 4 we’ll find somebody that sticks at 3rd and have a much improved team for ’08.








    LaRoche (or anyone else on the 3rd base list)







    charris- that’s who I was talking about dealing Nomar, Pierre and maybe Stults and Hull to. I think we could get Garland and somebody else for that deal. But my first choice would be to see Kemp and some pitchers go to Pittsburgh for Bay and 1 of the 3.(Duke, Gorzelanny or Grabow)

    jungar- somebody will make a trade for Pierre and Nomar if we have something to go along with either of them. We don’t have to throw top prospects in with them just average prospects.


    jungar, even if they sign Hunter, they are still pretty thin in the OF. They might actually be desperate enough (Guillen says he wants more speed) to make that move in lieu of getting Hunter


    jungar, even if they sign Hunter, they are still pretty thin in the OF. They might actually be desperate enough (Guillen says he wants more speed) to make that move in lieu of getting Hunter


    “Furcal is still a decent SS, and not a liability on offense, esp if he hits low in the order – he’d be cool as an AL 9th place hitter.”

    wow after his first bad season in his career he’s all of a sudden a 9 hitter? Whats with you people.


    Furcal had a great season in 2006 and if Jason Repko wasn’t such an eager beaver in spring training Furcal would have had the same good productive year he always has.

    Furcal is a good lead off guy. This season was a fluke.


    I’d like to blame Repko for the injury but I just can’t because he was trying to win a job out of spring training. It was just hard luck. But I think Furcal bounces back and has a strong year.


    I personally think Boras and A-Rod are dependents of the devil but I’d love to have his production in the middle of the lineup.

    That being said the money used towards him could be spent elsewhere and fill more holes like center field and our GM position.


    I am torn, as mentioned there is no one in baseball besides Bonds I like less. But ****, throw in 300/400/500 in the middle of all those kids and we got ourselef a great offensive team, even with the out machine.


    sorry oldfogey, i don’t have time to plot a graph for ya… i agree Bill James is knowledgeable but what I was saying is I don’t expect those numbers to be exact in every case. Injuries happen which would reduce performance, someone has a breakout year etc. I looked up the projections from last year and he seriously low-balled all of the Dodgers young hitters. Now you may say now they have been in the majors longer so he has a more accurate picture of what to predict for the future, but nevertheless there is always a chance that a player suprises.

    I like Jones better than Hunter.


    who needs A-Rod!!!

    Andrew Christian LaRoche is tearing up the Baseball World Cup. He had 3 more hits today as well as 3 more RBIs.

    Overall he’s hitting a monstrous 429/.480/.905. Give this kid the job Ned.


    I also like Jones better than Hunter and also agree that LaRoche should be given the job and let A-Rod get his check from somewhere else.


    If we sign A-Rod now, it will hand-cuff us in later years. We will need to resign pitchers and maybe bring pitchers in. Pitching wins championships and pitching isn’t cheap. After that the young guys will be up for arbitration and then free agency. That may be a few years down the road but signing A-Rod now will hurt our chances of signing top tier pitchers and our best young guys sown the road. $25-$30 million for 1 bat is crazy when you could get 2-3 good pitchers for that.


    Colletti said of the team’s situation at third base: “It’s kind of like center field. We’ll investigate and see.”

    See this is why I think he is a total A-hole. What he should say is, we currently have one of the top 3b prospects in all of baseball who we have very high hopes for after getting a brief taste of the big leauges last season. This kid (LaRoche) is currently tearing it up for team USA and we are proud that him and Young are helping the US bring home a title..etc…

    wwake me up when your done investigating you dummmmb shiittt

    A pretty good comp for LaRoche (Bill James again) is Mike Lowell.

    2008 Projections:

    LaRoche: 268/356/455

    Lowell: 283/346/455

    I suppose they should just sign Lowell for 10illion a seasons or more since he’s younger and cheaper and proven..(sarcasm)

    After lots of thinking I am gonna say what I think we should do. I haven’t completely formulated it yet but I am basically thinking now, that other than pitching we should do nothing. So yeah me and Cameron agree.

    -A-rod has proven with three teams now that getting him does not mean a trip to the WS. Plus I don’t like him. So I am back with Scott (and others) on this one.

    -Jones, (like Schmidt last year before the season when I was worried) has to be looked at like, why on earth would the Braves not even try to bring him back. It’s not just the money. If I criticized the Schmidt signing with that the reason why, I must do it with Jones.

    So I am now thinking, Santana in a trade or other pitching via trade or nothing.


    jungar- I agree with you. Ned never has anything positive to say about the young guys. He should praise LaRoche and at least acknowledge that he is a top prospect capable of being the everyday third baseman for the Dodgers instead of saying “we have a hole at 3B that we need to fill”.

    I’ve got something for you Ned, “We have a hole at the GM position that needs to be filled”.



    Don’t forget about Ned hoping for Nomar to rebound and have a season like 2006. It’s in the same article. Talk about myopia.


    The man clearly doesn’t know anything about baseball. It also proves that McCourt doesn’t know anything about baseball either because he continues to let Ned say and do stupid things.


    Well, Torre knows about baseball, so let’s see how much Ned he can take before he tells Frankie.

    If Ned gets fired at some point, we should try to jam Pierre into one of his suitcases on the way out.


    “wow after his [Furcal’s] first bad season in his career he’s all of a sudden a 9 hitter? Whats with you people.” – Posted by: | November 13, 2007 10:28 AM

    “A healthy Furcal is still one of the top leadoff hitters in the game.” Posted by: | November 13, 2007 10:33 AM


    I like Rafael Furcal and he can be an acceptable leadoff hitter, but he is not an elite one at a reasonable expectation of a .350 OBP. For a serious World Series contender, I’d wish for more than “averagish”. Furcal would be a great #2 for the Dodgers if a certain CF was the leadoff hitter a certain GM thought he was. But only the most hopeless optimist thought that JP would recover to post a .370+ OBP, which had done only twice before (2001, 2004). (Wouldn’t he be awesome hitting 9th for the Red Sox, wrapping around to Pedroia?) It’s really too bad Rafael was robbed of what should have been one of his peak age seasons. At 30 next year he is still capable of producing a peak season and being a very attractive free agent.

    NL Leadoff hitters* OBP 2007:

    0.386 Ramirez FLA

    0.375 Johnson ATL

    0.374 Weeks MIL

    0.367 Taveras COL

    0.361 B.Giles SD

    0.356 Eckstein STL

    0.354 Reyes NY

    0.351 McLouth PIT

    0.344 Rollins PHI

    0.337 Soriano CHI

    0.333 Furcal LA

    0.331 Roberts SF

    0.308 Lopez WAS

    0.308 Freel CIN

    0.295 Young ARI (!)

    0.285 Biggio HOU (ouch!)

    * Player who batter 1st most often for that team

    #1 slot NL overall, 2007 OBP: .341

    2006 was a career year for Rafael Furcal:

    Year Age Avg OBP Slg OPS+

    2000 22 .295 .394 .382 97

    2001 23 .275 .321 .370 77

    2002 24 .275 .323 .387 85

    2003 25 .292 .352 .443 105

    2004 26 .279 .344 .414 95

    2005 27 .284 .348 .429 102

    2006 28 .300 .369 .445 107

    2007 29 .270 .333 .355 76

    Total xxx .284 .349 .407 94


    “(Wouldn’t he be awesome hitting 9th for the Red Sox, wrapping around to Pedroia?)”

    he = Furcal


    I agree with you Fogey. We paid 21 million for two players that combined for a .333 OBP at the top of our order last year and hit 60 combined extra base hits (6 homeruns)

    Paying a slap hitter 14 million a year is ludicrous.


    Colletti must really love those old Giants. They just hired another one. Rick Lembo, assistant trainer.


    you beat me too it Pierre. Ned needs to stop this. We are the Dodgers!

    I can’t beleive the hatred toward Furcal after one bad injury plagued season. Yeah he’s overpaid but when he’s healthy he’s the best leadoff man in our division. He was our best player in 2006. Now he’s an overpaid slap hitter. Please.


    “Paying a slap hitter 14 million a year is ludicrous.” – Posted by: | November 13, 2007 05:15 PM

    Let the record show that it is NOT me that termed Rafael Furcal a slap hitter. He is a legimate dozen or so HR guy, which is more than a slap hitter. To be fair to Ned Colletti, he did sign Furcal for what should be three peak years, especially for a player at a key defensive position, ages 28-30. The ankle injury clearly hobbled Furcal for some time last year and probably messed up his mechanics for most/all of the season. 2006 was a jackpot for Furcal and Ned. I think it would be be reasonable to have expected a minimum line from Furcal, each season, of:

    .285 .355 .435 .790 104

    (where a 104 OPS+ is a wild guess for the actual value). Add in good SS defense, cannon arm with excellent range, maybe 3yrs/$39M isn’t a huge stretch. And remember, the Dodgers were pretty desperate for **** at that point what with Cesar Izturis getting hurt and showing that he wouldn’t be a hitter in the long run, and this was in the wake of a 71-91 season and the messy firings of Jim Tracy, then Paul DePodesta.


    LOL – I was composing that before max_power’s last comment showed up! I think “hatred” is far too strong a word for my mild criticisms. If we don’t make major moves, he should bat leadoff for the Dodgers (not JP) and I hope he reverts back to a .360 OBP or better. But .345 shouldn’t surprise us, and .355 is more likely.


    Max and Fogey

    1. I thought the contract was absurd before last year. Furcal is a good player and I am glad he is on our team..this isn’t Pierre I am talking about here..but is he worth 14 million a season? I say NO. Thats all..

    2. slap hitter is rough, I take it back, but line drive gap hitter, will that work for you? But in 8 seasons, more than 10 bombs only 4 times.

    3. Furcal is not the best all around SS in baseball and never has been yet is paid the most out of any SS other than Jeter. On defense he can get to alot and his arm really is top notch but in 2 seasons with us, 46 errors. In the same time frame Rollins has made 22. Bat aside, Izzy was a much better SS IMO

    4. Not a career .300 hitter, career OBP is below .350 avgs what 30 steals a season? His postseason numbers are .226 avg and .328OBP

    Here are just 4 guys who are paid less than Furcal ..





    So all in all yeah it’s good to get him in his prime etc, and he is a solid all around player but I don’t think he is one of the 20 best players in baseball and he is paid like one.


    Don’t we have enough troubles? Furcal had a bad year, because of the ankle. Why don’t we leave it at that. We are supposevly looking for a 3rd baseman and we’re worried about Pierre’s arm. I think people are just looking for trouble.


    Pierre you are right…I really should be clear that I like Furcal, think he is good and put no emphisis on last year..he was hurt and played hard all year thru pain..But like most of Colettis moves don’t think he is worth his contract and that, more than anything specifically about furcal is what my issue is. It’s a collective thing


    “The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp. The Dodgers probably would balk at giving both Billingsley and Kershaw in the same deal because it would hurt the organization’s pitching depth.” 4 players from this group!?!?! ned just might be dumb enough to do it.


    Maybe it should be you’re dumb enough to believe he’s dumb enough to do it. It’s dumb all around! Seriously anybody who would do that deal should be fired on the spot. And the idea of it gives me heart palpitations. The Marlins are going for the jugular…good for them. Now stay away, which by the way I have to believe we will.


    BTW, I didn’t mean to insult you if it came off that way. There’s just no way we would come close to taking any deal like that and I can’t believe Ned would consider it. If I were the Marlins I’d ask for Broxton and Martin too.


    Also, if I have a choice of Pierre/Kemp and Ethier. Pierre on the next train east to who care. This is in relation to potential Jones/Hunter signings. I stand by my stance that I believe Ethier is a very solid player and should not be dealt away especially if the choice is between Pierre and Ethier. So if we choose to go after a center fielder Pierre has to go for whatever we can get.


    Must reading. This guy’s got it right!

    Los Angeles Dodgers

    What They Should Do: Hold. Play. The. Kids. The Dodgers simply need to deploy their existing assets correctly, rather than seek help from elsewhere. To get a bit more specific about it, next year’s lineup should look as follows:

    SS Furcal

    C Martin

    1B Loney

    2B Kent

    LF Kemp

    RF Ethier

    3B LaRoche

    CF Pierre

    That group would be significantly better than league average at two positions (C, 2B), slightly better than league average at three positions (SS, LF and probably 1B), about league average in RF, and slightly below league average at CF and 3B (though not for long in LaRoche’s case, especially with Nomar Garciaparra serving as his caddy). Overall it’s one of the better position-player groups in the league. So then you take the money you’re saving yourself on Luis Gonzalez and spend it on a mid-level starting pitcher to round out a rotation of Penny, Lowe, Schmidt and Chad Billingsley. Coupled with the great one-two punch in the bullpen, that’s also an above-average group. That’s it. You’re done. You’ve spent next to nothing — and you still have a potential pennant winner on your hands. It looks like about an 88-win core that can creep into the 90s if the veterans stay healthy.

    What They Will Do: Strong Buy. There is no bigger disconnect in baseball than the Dodgers’ ability to develop talent and the front office’s lack of appreciation for that talent. Kemp is someone that they should be thrilled to have in their lineup for the next six years. LaRoche’s time is now. So is Chin-Lung Hu’s, and the Dodgers should consider trading Furcal to make way for him.

    Instead, all rumors are that Ned Colletti’s compass is pointed in the opposite direction. What I envision happening is something like the following: Kemp or LaRoche are included in a deal for a premium starting pitcher. And then — guess what — you do have a hole at LF or 3B, and you do need to work the free-agent market to repair it. But it isn’t a hole that existed before; it’s one that you’ve created. The behavior is literally almost pathological, a kind of Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, in which Colletti seems determined to make the Dodgers sick so that he can make them well again. Playing the kids — these talented kids from your farm system that embody everything that used to be called the Dodger Way — well, that’s just too darn obvious.

    If the Dodgers feel like they have to have a 94-win club instead of an 88-win club — and there’s no reason they should feel that way after drawing almost 4 million fans last year — there are still a couple ways they could accomplish this. For instance, beat Curt Schilling’s second-best offer by 30 percent, which probably means something like $18 million. By definition, you’re overpaying, but the magnitude of the mistake is much, much smaller than trading Kershaw and Kemp for one year of Johan Santana, or signing Alex Rodriguez and permanently burying either LaRoche or Hu. Or, beat Torii Hunter’s second-best offer by 10 percent, and see if you can’t get someone else to eat most of Pierre’s contract. Of course all this speculation may be premature; the Dodgers haven’t done anything yet this winter but replace Grady Little with Joe Torre, which surely has to be considered an upgrade. But based on past performance this is not a club to which I’m willing to give

    For full NL West Hot Stove Preview


    Im not sure what Ned is thinking going after a FA CF… again. Instead of having one 5 year albatross contract he’ll have two. Is Hunter worth 5/90M??? Is he really going to hit 30 Hrs the next 5 years? He’s already 32 and is OBP is UGLY. Is Jones going to rebound enough to make him worth it as 3/55M or something like that Maybe not. How can he justify another huge contract like this? None of these guys are premier bats. The only one is ARod. Get ARod and spend ridiculously because he is elite or get no one. Seriously. Having two unmovable anchors in the outfield would be awful.


    where there is smoke there is usually fire. Coletti can’t get A-rod because he is really spendy… we need a middle of the order bat according to Coletti. It was his biggest failure last offseason and with Torre here now..I think Coletti at almost all costs will try to get that Bat…I sure hope not but thats my gut feeling.

    Red-dog I feel exactly like that writer feels.


    Going back to the lead-off hitters:

    The only other lead-off hitters I’d rather have than Furcal in the NL are Rollins, Ramirez and Reyes.


    A free agent center fielder is a great idea in that it is much better than trading Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw and who knows who else for Cabrera at third. ( Forbid Ned is that stupid. )

    What doesn’t make this free agent center fielder signing a good idea is the part where Pierre moves to left, therefore taking out one of Kemp or Ethier, both of which need to be everyday starters. If getting in a new CF means getting rid of Pierre, super. Else Colletti is just weakening the team by throwing away cheap, young talent and signing expensive players not as good. You’d think Nomar, Gonzalez and yes, Pierre, have proven the fallacy of playing old or insufficiently talented players by now.


    I’ll tell you what scares me about this off-season situation.

    I don’t believe that the Dodgers will be a serious contender for A-Rod, and that will not disappoint me. Consider that McCourt needed special MLB approval for his thinly financed deal to buy the franchise for $420 million a few years back. He seems to have done well from a financial standpoint with increased value for the franchise, and he can continue to raise ticket prices and other fees. I don’t think it is in the cards, however, that he can commit another $350 million for a single player without coming up against all kinds of loan restrictions going back to the purchase of the franchise itself. Trading for someone like Cabrera is another issue, and I’m afraid of the organization’s push in that respect and what it will cost us in established young talent to land him. I don’t think that we have much good baseball knowledge at the ownership level and demonstrably even less at the GM level. McCourt chose to select his wife to be the president of the organization unlike some of the other more “professional” franchises that separate the ownership from the baseball management. That’s great for the “wanna be socialites” and for the minority interests pointing to a highly placed female executive, but it has done diddly for the building of our team. Colletti’s record has been abysmal – in fact you might say that not spending sufficient money for a team is preferable to spending it foolishly, and that has been the mark of Colletti. I think that even Little had better familiarity with our younger players and their true potential than I can attribute to Colletti. He should have been fired instead of Little, or at least alongside of him.

    Now we have Torre, and he is properly acknowledged as a professional. However, he’ll be first to admit that he doesn’t have much knowledge of even the veterans on our team, much less guys like Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, etc. His opportunity to observe and make some concrete decisions won’t come until Spring Training. You would have to agree that under those circumstances he’s likely to be biased in favor of some established veterans as compared to our potential young talent base. So, it would not surprise me if Torre is willing to go along to lose people like, Kemp and company to land a Cabrera or some other veterans. That is what scares me. Colletti has a record of overpaying veterans, and I’m afraid he will be willing to give up too much young talent for people with good past records who are now over the hill.

    Who’s going to preserve the balance and keep our young stars to be in place?


    I’m pretty sure Torre knows more about our players than we think. I’m sure he’s talked to Duncan and watched some game film of the team.


    this one will make you guys throw up in your mouth a little…

    From John Donovan:

    General manager Ned Colletti has confirmed that the Dodgers are looking for a centerfielder, with the thought of moving Juan Pierre to left. This comes just one year after Colletti signed Pierre to a five-year, $44 million deal. Either Colletti saw this coming and planned on it all along (unlikely), or he recognized his mistake and is moving quickly to correct it. Either way, that’s too much to pay an outfielder with no power (one home run in his last 872 plate appearances) and a miserable on-base percentage (.331 last year).

    and then..

    Dodgers General Manager Ned Colletti, who inherited a dynamic group of young and inexpensive players, went on an ill-advised spending binge for veterans that guaranteed $117.5 million to Jason Schmidt, Juan Pierre, Nomar Garciaparra and Randy Wolf. Responding to Colletti’s preference for veterans, the Padres are contemplating three-team trade scenarios that would bring them young Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp.


    If we can’t get ARod:

    Trade JP, LaRoche, and Kershaw to Florida for Cabrera. Here’s why that would work: They need a center fielder and will need a leadoff hitter once Cabrera leaves because Hanley Ramirez will be moving to bat #3. LaRoche puts a man at 3rd for them and Kershaw gives them the young pitcher that they ALWAYS look for in any trade. We’d probably have to pick up about 18 of the $35 million owed to JP for the next 4 years, but it’d be worth it. Cabrera should get $10 million in arbitration this year, then we can sign Torii Hunter. That figures to cost about $17-19 mil/year for at least 5 years. $4 million on JP’s contract, that puts the payroll burden at about $33 mil next year. Not much worse than the $30 mil that ARod wants and significant upgrades to 2 spots in the lineup and HUGE upgrade to outfield defense.

    It’s not gonna happen, I just think it’s a good idea.


    ewk, great stuff there, I love hearing how great our future will be (trades withstanding).

    I don’t know jungar, baseball is a game of rhythm and if Jones kept banging himself up last year, I can understand his funk. Hopefully (if we get him) our training staff (yikes) will determine if he is at 100% going into next season.


    geeze, every time I read a post putting Martin SECOND in the BA it shows a total grasp of how a MLB season works.

    No matter what ability a catcher has to hit in the 2-hole, hitting there will have that catcher on the DL before the end of July and will shave YEARS, perhaps a decade, off that catcher’s career.

    Martin is said to be in SUPERIOR physical condtioning. Yet look how his productivity fell off after hitting above 5th in the order last year.

    Add how much he likes to steal bases to the increased time on base and number of AB’s and it’s a career killer.

    I am confident Torre gets that idea…and that there is a reason catchers never hit above 4th that is beyond them typically being slower runners. It is because catching is the most demanding and physically destructive potition on the field.

    Keep Martin hitting 5th or 6th and we get to watch him for the next 10-12 years…put him 2nd every day and we see him for 4-5 years MAX and he will never hit above .270 with power again after 1-2 seasons.

    He is a gamer but think long term. Catcher’s have short careers so let’s not make Martin’s any shorter….

    Oh, and ask Biggio what a difference it made moving to 2nd after being an ALL-STAR catcher in 1991…he was an AWESOME catcher but they moved him to allow him to reach his offensive potential. Look up to see if that worked out ok…

    Moving Martin is a thought I had all last season…if they have another guy to catch since Martin once played 3rd he might fit there or 2nd….of even RF/LF…his talent does offer interesting possibilities.

    I am not saying to move Martin to another position but simply, physically he cannot last hitting 2nd no matter what you might think…



    “…geeze, every time I read a post putting Martin SECOND in the BA it shows a total grasp of how a MLB season works…”


    geeze, every time I read a post putting Martin SECOND in the BO it shows a total FAILURE TO grasp how a MLB season works and how physically demanding catching is over a season.



    Colletti’s term as GM has been marked by over paying in cash and players for all his acquisitions. Now he has the opportunity to devastate the Dodgers by doing it again. Frank, rein him him!!! Your have the talent on your roster right now. LA doesn’t need to spend a lot of money for over priced free agents. Give the kids a chance. Kemp is the power hitter the Dodgers need, and Loney may not be far behind. The names thrown around in rumored trades are way too much payment. Learn from the other teams in your division. Stay with the kids and reap the rewards for years to come.


    Yeah he’s talking with the Yanks to up the salary for everybody else. He doesn’t want to be in NY. He wants LA and money.


    wow grumpy i completely agree with you assessment on martion and the batting order. he never should have been hitting that high most the season and with all those ABs he did totally wear down. if you are relying on your CATCHER to steal bases you really have zero offense. bat him sixth and he’ll be productive there.

  85. SHAWN

    I would love to have ARod but 30 mil for one player is absurd and I hate Boras. I say use that money to sure up 2 spots, CF and P. Move Pierre and eat most of his salary, He is a 5 mil player not 9, thanks Ned.

    Cabrera is a great player but his attitude and weight scare me, but 30 plus .300 and 100 rbi plus, maybe Miguel will be Miguel. Manny type numbers. Do not give up the farm. Personally I hope Kent says no, that will open up more money and give Abreu or Hu a shot. It worked for the Padres, rockies and dbacks, play the kids. Sign Torii, he is the leader that LA needs and will improve the defense, team him with Ethier/Young in left and Kemp in right. That outfield will hit 75 to 90 home runs, and defensively will be worth 1 run per game.

    Power is an issue but I forecast the following

    furcal 10-15 he will be healthy

    Loney 20-25 no aberration he can hit

    Abreu 7-10 if Kent 18-22

    laroche 15-20 give him a shot

    Ethier 15-18

    Hunter 20-25

    kemp 20-25

    Martin 18-22

    this will be enough power give the kids the opportunity. We need starting pitching. Loiaza is a slug and Schmidt is the modern day Dreifort. Kiss that 52 mil goodbye. Wow I wish I had that type of leeway in my job.


    If Martin were properly platooned, he could hit 2 in the batting order, the problem last year was that Grady never gave him a day off. Biggio was an all-star catcher that led-off for several years before transitioning to second. Piazza was a 3 hitter for several years, I would say that getting only 11 days off all season would wear Martin down much more than hitting 2 hole.


    When supply outweighs demand in such a manner, the going rates are depressed. That’s probably not going to affect A-Rod, whose market value is so distinct that it’s likely immune to things as mundane as positional bottlenecks. However, a guy like Lowell might take a hit. For the teams in pursuit of Lowell, that’s good news. Lowell is a fine player, a skilled defender and a positive force in the clubhouse. However, he’s also a risky proposition going forward. Over the last three seasons, Lowell has authored a cumulative batting line of .284 AVG/.341 OBP/.449 SLG, which, as has been pointed out before in this space, is eerily similar to Wilson Betemit’s level of production over that same span. Plus, Lowell will turn 34 before next season, and his bat speed has been erratic in recent years. In other words, he’s no guarantee.


    We don’t even need to look at Lowell. He’s a product of the Green Monster. You take that away and he’s an older version of the player the Marlins got rid of. I know he’s only 34 but he is near the end of his starting career. If he leaves Boston he’s no more than a backup unless he’s on a week team.

  89. SHAWN

    Lowell is a great story and a great character guy, but 2 years ago Boston had to take him as a throw in. Do not fall into this trap again, Ned.


    well plus this but Ned cares about totals, not avg’s…

    Over the last three seasons, Lowell has authored a cumulative batting line of .284 AVG/.341 OBP/.449 SLG, which, as has been pointed out before in this space, is eerily similar to Wilson Betemit’s level of production over that same span.

    And of course this:

    Fun with Bill James 2008 projections:

    LaRoche .275/.367/.458 19 HR

    Lowell .282/.349/.459 17 HR

    Of course Ned needs to see it to belive, as evidence by Pierre.


    Alright, alright…

    Sign Hunter/Jones

    Sit/Trade/Dump Pierre

    La Roche at 3B

    Trade a package of dudes for Miggy to play LF.

    None of that 4 out of 5 young studs to FLA **** though.


    i wonder if we could ever conduct a serious trade with them (not minor mark sweeney type stuff)… like lowry for laroche or like. although i would hate to see any of our prospects playing for the giants.


    As far as I’m concerned, A-Rod is A-Hole. The only thing that would delight me is Boras getting burned in his potentially biggest deal.


    Enough already with A-Rod and Boras…or no Boras…or Boras only on odd numbered days. A-Rod and his passion play can go anywhere they want…just not Dodger Stadium. I’m all for standing pat with the kiddie corps, crossing my fingers on Schmidt, and seeing where 2008 will take us without Colletti mucking it up. Now if he can somehow swing a new centerfielder and send Pierre packing, kudos to him.


    “Now if he can somehow swing a new centerfielder and send Pierre packing, kudos to him.” – Posted by: | November 14, 2007 04:05 PM

    NEW centerfielder? Just play an OF of Young/Kemp/Ethier and send Pierre packing? 😉


    If A-Rod is gonna re-up with the yanks, Colletti should do nothing in regard to the 3B situation. We have a 3B in Andy LaRoche.


    SERIOUSLY DODGERDUDE. We can all only hope…. It would be so stupid to give up so much for Cabrera, when we havent even seen what LaRoche can do, and considering Cabrera will be a free agent in 2 years anyways.. 26 vs. 24 big deal?

    Those were some good comments on the SF Giants blog, particularly: “It makes me sad to think that Colletti has learned everything about being a GM from Sabean” OUCH.


    Trade speculation regarding our kids for Cabrera has been absolutely rampant the past few days. Moreover, each and every proposed deal has bordered on insanity.

    My question is, why doesn’t Colletti come out and make a statement about how he would not even consider trading more than 1 of our top prospect under any circumstances? The Yanks had no problem stating Joba, Hughes, and a few of their other pitching prospects are untouchable. I mean, doesn’t he see how the perception that he’s considering trading those guys makes him look like a complete idiot?

    All I’m left to conclude by his omission is that 1) he really is considering trading those guys and 2) he really is the dumbest person in baseball.


    “… doesn’t he [Colletti] see how the perception that he’s considering trading those guys makes him look like a complete idiot?” – Posted by: | November 14, 2007 05:23 PM

    As a wise man once said (more or less), better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. 😉

    Seriously, I see no reason for Ned to say anything definitive at all; in any interviews he grants, he should just speak in platitudes and generalities and play everything close to the vest. Keep all the other GMs and the agents guessing.


    Ken Roshenthal makes a compelling argument for the Dodgers to sign Torii Hunter. I agree with most of it. I really don’t think the Dodgers need a 50 home run a year guy. If we get Hunter though we need to get rid of Pierre. We can’t have two below average obp guys in our lineup.


    Agreed, old fogey

    Also, assuming that anytime in the next few months A-Rod signs with another team aside from the Dodgers. I agree that we should hold tight and not give into demands from the Marlins. They have no reason whatsoever to give in to teams interested, so that is a dead end. We should pursue a solid center fielder and find a way to trade Pierre, because he should not touch left field. There’s no way Pierre can come close to what Ethier can do in that spot. If worse comes to worse and we do not make a huge free agent signing, stand pat offensively and bat Pierre first or eighth and see what comes our way in July.

    There are a lot worse things in life if our lineup were, but if Pierre is playing left field, he has to go for anything we can get:











    And just to point out, the Yanks said they wouldnt trade any of them for a bat– they didnt say they were untouchable for santana….

    I really think LaRoche, Ethier, McDonald, and a solid catching prospect would be a real fair trade for Cabrera– teams are so fing stupid when dealing with us demanding only our top prospects to save face…



    I really think other teams are demanding only our top prospects because our GM has no credibility. Some part of them seriously believes Ned will eventually bite.

    Thats why, although I understand the value of keeping things close to the vest, I really think needs to come out and speak out in this issue. Not to mention, it wouldn’t hurt to show some public support for your own players. I mean, no one has even thought about how kemp, laroche, bills, loney, and ethier might feel about having their names constantly mentioned about in trade discussions.


    It’s laughable how easy of a fix the Dodgers are. Ned and Franky boy have it stuck in their minds that they have to make a big splash this offseason.

    They talk about this return to Dodger glory and a return to the “Dodger Way” but they are going in just the opposite direction.

    Dump Pierre, play the kids and resign Wolf and maybe make a run at Hiroki Kuroda. The Dodgers aren’t a hard fix. It’s just getting management to realize that is whats hard.


    They;re big boys making big money— who are rookies nonetheless– im not going to fret over their feelings…


    I’d be very very surprised if we make it through this offseason with Matt Kemp and Andy LaRoche on the roster.


    He’s not the worst ever…he’s just the worst right now.

    Let’s not forget he was the 6th choice for GM.

    IF you want to talk about credibility issues we have to talk about the McCourts. It was so bad when we were looking for a GM to replace Depo that Jim Bowden turned us down. JIM BOWDEN!!! The man in charge of the washington nationals.


    Ewk, I understand that. But I really think management owes it to them to give some public show of support. They have treated them like absolute garbage thus far.

    First, they do everything in their power to keep them from developing into (as ned would call them) big league ballplayers. Now that it seems we they’ve developed into real ballplayers, Ned, by not publicly backing his guys, is feeding into the perception that he is willing, and perhaps secretly eager, to get rid of them. Its absolutely disgusting how our young studs have been treated by Ned from day one!

  109. Roberto

    I guess we go with a Nomar/LaRoche platoon at the beginning of the year until Andy goes on fire and let him play everyday.


    BTW, I’m not advocating that he come out and proclaim they’re untouchable (although from a bargaining standpoint I don’t see how that could hurt). But I do think that, at the very least, he should come out and say that he will not trade them unless he is getting prime PITCHING in return (which is the only thing he should trade them for anyhow).

    Someone please tell me how doing that would hurt his bargaining position.


    The only player who we have tlaked about trading for is Cabrera, arguably the best young player in the the Majors, so i think its unfair to make a blanket statement like you only do it for prime pitching…. That being said,,, i pray we dont trade for Piggy


    Ned can talk to his players on the phone if any soothing is necessary. Publically, he should be doing better PR so that the casual fans will be happy to keep the kids*, if that is how it turns out.

    * especially the ones that are still, more or less, prospects. Even casual fans should have seen enough of Kemp, Loney etc. to at least feel optimistic about their talent and potential. (My private irrational [I hope] fear: Loney is the next Wally Joyner.)


    “Dump Pierre, play the kids and resign Wolf and maybe make a run at Hiroki Kuroda. The Dodgers aren’t a hard fix. It’s just getting management to realize that is whats hard.” – Posted by: | November 14, 2007 07:04 PM


    You have to look at this from Ned’s perspective. What’s really hard in your plan is that huge plate of crow he has to choke down for the failed JP 5-year CF contract.


    You have to look at this from Ned’s perspective. What’s really hard in your plan is that huge plate of crow he has to choke down for the failed JP 5-year CF contract.

    Posted by: | November 14, 2007 07:25 PM

    that will all go by the way side when we win. We aren’t going to win with Pierre. Good GM’s correct their mistake.


    well whats worse.. admitting you were wrong and doing something about it or ignoring it and possibly making it worse by moving “it” to LF.


    Word. Just get rid of him… It didnt work out, we have better options, it was a bad move, move on. Try and work something for a Garland type guy, but just move him somewhere please.


    I dont expect Ned to come out and say these kids are great! They are professionals and they should know how to handle critism. However, Ned coming out and basically defending Mr. Motorcycle’s rant (which he did) is not the right thing.


    “I really think LaRoche, Ethier, McDonald, and a solid catching prospect would be a real fair trade for Cabrera– teams are so fing stupid when dealing with us demanding only our top prospects to save face…” – Posted by: | November 14, 2007 05:45 PM


    LaRoche IS the Dodgers’ top prospect, and was even when Loney and Kemp still were. McDonald is one the Dodgers’ top few pitching prospects (Kershaw for sure is higher, but who else?), and I don’t think the Dodgers’ actually have “a solid catching propsect” at the moment (Lucas May is a stretch – recent convert to C, not young for his league, terrible BB/K ratio at the A+ level – a project that might work out, not solid.)


    great point jspelk, Ned has already admitted Pierre wasn’t the best way to go by trying to move him to left. This would make our team ever worse even if we do sign a premier center fielder.


    max – you’re right, good GMs DO correct their mistakes, and Ned did dump Baez and McCarter pretty quick when they didn’t work out, so there is some glimmer of hope. But they were not a $44M mistake.

    jspelk2, remember “Mr. Motorcycle” is a friend of Jamie McCourt, president, and so Ned can’t just rip him a new one either. (I agree that the Dodgers’ management [sorry Josh] didn’t handle that very well at all. They could have done a much better job diffusing that situation. How did they not get to Loney and Kemp BEFORE rebuttal quotes got to the press vultures? Ooops.)


    Moving JP to LF both ADMITS the mistake AND compounds it! Even if Colletti thought that was a good idea, surely there are enough voices in the Dodger player-personnel power structure to talk him down from that blunder.


    some good blogging going on… since i have a paper to do for tmw morning, i really shouldn’t be reading any of it… but i can’t help it. One question: what would we have to do to get rid of pierre? pay 50% of the contract? give more players along with him?


    C’mon manny3vee, that is a little hyperbolic. Ned hasn’t actually run the Dodgers into the ground yet and other GMs have actually succeeded in doing that to their franchises, David Littlefield in Pittsburgh being a recent example. Potential is not the same as reality!


    Steve Phillips was a worse GM. Did you hear his plan for the Dodgers after Torre signed? : Sign A-Rod, sign A Jones, trade the farm for Santana. That team would be at $150 in 2 years.


    dodgerdude17 – right after that Phillips segment on ESPN SC, Kenny Mayne said something like, “Steve Phillips, predicting an unlimited payroll.” Hysterical. (And you’re right, Phillips was bad indeed.)


    I know Ned hasn’t done anything yet (other than drop a boatload of money on Schmidt, Nomar, Kent, Louiza, Furcal, Wolf, and above all, Pierre), but I just have this terrible feeling…


    BTW, while commenting on ARod, Steve Phillips also said something recently like he’d rather spend $30M on three players instead of on ARod. Colletti tried this already, right? Nomar + Pierre + Kent = close to $30M. Worked out great this season, huh?


    I’m almost hoping the Dodgers don’t make it to the playoffs next year just so Ned gets canned.

    Leaving this team in his hands is a ticking time-bomb.


    im fairly confident that if we don’t make the playoffs this year ned will be gone. now what kind of state our team will be in…ugh, who knows. it seems like the hiring of torre and all that was mainly mccourt. ned must be on a very short leash right now.


    It took Logan White and all his assistants and scouts years to build this foundation of young cheap and extremely talented crop of kids. Ned Colletti is looking to **** all that work away for Miggy “the Piggy” Cabrera and his $20 million price tag in a 2 short years. He must be stopped.


    jspelk… i agree. I think the only reason Ned hasn’t already emptied the farm system yet is because of the influence of people like Kim Ng, Logan White, and others… perhaps McCourt as well.

    … ok back to my paper!


    Colletti’s main priority this off-season should be to trade Pierre for anything he can get. Kemp can play CF, Ethier in RF, and Young in LF. LaRoche has the potential of being another Cabrera at 3B. Why not give him the chance. If a trade is made for Cabrera, though, LaRoche should be included in it. He deserves to play regularly somewhere, and then we will see if the Dodgers made yet another mistake. He is the only top-tier player that should be included, though. Anything additional should be lower level minor leaguers. Better yet, Colletti should insist on Pierre being a part of such a trade.


    Nice points Red.

    He should try to thrown in Nomar and/or louiza as well.

    See, thats the sort of thinking I would like to see from my GM. Lets get rid of players are impeding our progress instead of shopping the pieces that might form the cornerstones of a Dodger Dynasty.


    Ethier should bat 2nd, not Martin, not Pierre, not Kemp. The guy takes SOLID #2 hitter at bats. He always looks at the first pitch (which is almost a downfall sometimes), he’s patient, and he’s got a little bit of pop in that stick. Tony LaRussa 101. If we really can’t find a taker for Pierre even if we eat half of his salary, I think we should just release him. Yes, it’s a waste of 8.8 mil/year for the next 4 years, but so is having him in CF. But if we release him, we don’t have to watch those ***** throws from the fence. Seriously, is he even trying? My 13 year old cousin can hit 2nd base from the warning track on a line without a bounce. Pierre makes it halfway there with an arc.


    I just read this in the article about Cabrera: “The Dodgers, meanwhile, have had interest in Cabrera since the middle of the 2007 season. Pitcher Chad Billingsley, along with outfielder Matt Kemp, first baseman James Loney and third baseman Andy LaRoche also have been mentioned in various reports.”

    I can’t believe that Billingsley, Kemp, or Loney would be involved in such a trade. If that takes place, I’m ready to give up on the Dodgers. That kind of stupidity doesn’t deserve fan support!


    forget all the bull bleep numbers I throw around all the time and watch this 30 second clip dude, our dude.. can flat out HIT !! LOL

    Bills thats a joke I wouldn’t trade him period. Seriously I would be bummed and as much as I bash Bernie no way he is that dumb. I fully expect him to be our ace next year. 15-20 wins 200ks 3.10era. We need pitching, we cant give it up.


    I can’t believe Bills and Loney are even being mentioned in trade talks. Loney reminds me of Derrick Lee, gold glove defense with a good bat. Bills reminds me of a young Josh Beckette, hard thrower with a good curve ball. Wait until he really learns how to pitch. If those 2 are traded then who is going to play first and fill the #3 slot in the rotation? Sweeney and Loaiza? Ned is an embarrassment to this club for even thinking that.


    chill out cameron you kemp hating braves fan- its called a rumor mill who knows what’s true, plus that’s what the Marlins want not what Colletti offered. The marlins are crazy and the team should stay pact. If we can sign a CF and get rid of Pierre I’m all for it and we should add some pitching, other than that I can’t wait for spring training with some real coaches teaching the kids how to win and run the bases.


    For the record, I don’t hate Kemp and I’m not a Braves fan. Yeah I watch alot of there games because they’re the only games that are on TV around here until the Dodgers come on around 10 et. I disagree that the Marlins are crazy for their offer. You can’t start low and try to raise the bar but by them starting high they can lower the bar and still get good talent in return for Cabrera. However, the offer that’s reportedly on the table might be one that Ned is dumb enough to do. I can see doing a deal for 1 pro prospect and 2-3 minor league prospects but no Bills or Loney anywhere in the offer.


    old fogey nailed it on Pierre when he said that moving him to LF both admits and compounds the problem.

    Pierre was a mistake, and it appears that even Colletti now knows that.

    When one makes a mistake of a serious magnitude, there are only two rational things to do once one realizes the mistake:

    First, quit making the mistake.

    Second, minimize the bad consequences of the mistake as much as possible.

    By moving Pierre to LF, Colletti would be doing neither of these things.

    The only answer to this problem is really quite simple and available. Trade Pierre (or essentially give him away) to some other team who thinks he’s worth $6-7 million/year and eat the remainder of his contract.


    On Delwyn Young:

    There can be no doubt on the part of anybody who has watched him more than a couple of times that this kid has a beautiful swing and absolutely crushes the ball.

    Two questions remain:

    1) When major league pitchers inevitably discover his weakness will he be able to adjust? This is a question common to all rookies.

    2) Is there a place in the field for the defensively challenged youngster? Or put differently, is his bat good enough to compensate for his fielding?


    Man, I am scared to death that Ned is going to do something stupid.

    Please, Ned, Loney stays. Kemp stays. Kershaw stays.

    Don’t be a fool!!!



    Young is still a defensive upgrade over Pierre I’m sure and obviously a better hitter. Heck, I’m a defensive upgrade to Pierre!


    baltimore Sun:

    The Dodgers, who have a well-stocked farm system, have been one of the most aggressive suitors for Bedard, according to a team source.

    Among the players that have been discussed, the source said, are: Matt Kemp, a 23-year-old outfielder; Jonathan Broxton, a 23-year-old reliever; and Clayton Kershaw, a 19-year-old left-handed starter who is regarded as one of the top prospects in baseball.

    However, those three players reportedly also are being mentioned in trade talks between the Dodgers and Florida Marlins involving the latter’s starting third baseman, Miguel Cabrera.

    If they decide to trade Bedard, the Orioles likely will look for three young major league-ready players in return.


    cam would you just loose your mind if your cousin was traded with KEMP? lol

    I will but for totally different reasons. I really hope these trades don’t happen but man there is alot of smoke….out of the two give me Miggy at least. Bedar can dominate but has he ever thrown 200innings?.my memory says no.


    jungar, I saw that.

    The Orioles must be smoking crack to think that Bedard is even close to being worth those guys.


    I can’t believe Bills and Loney are even being mentioned in trade talks. Loney reminds me of Derrick Lee, gold glove defense with a good bat. Bills reminds me of a young Josh Beckette, hard thrower with a good curve ball. Wait until he really learns how to pitch. If those 2 are traded then who is going to play first and fill the #3 slot in the rotation? Sweeney and Loaiza? Ned is an embarrassment to this club for even thinking that.

    Posted by: | November 15, 2007 06:02 AM

    your best post to date cameron.


    Matt Kemp and a B level prospect might be worth Bedard but Broxton and Kershaw??? Give me a break! Bedard would be a great pick-up and just may be worth losing a talent the likes of Kemp. I don’t personally want to see that but it wouldn’t be the end of the world.


    jungar- I would completely lose my mind if Brox went with Kemp. I don’t want Brox to leave period. I wouldn’t trade Kemp either unless a replacement for him is in the deal too, plus a pitcher. I’d trade Kemp, Pierre, Meloan and McDonald for Bedard and Markakis.

    Here is a list of my untouchables:







    Anybody else can be dealt for the right price.


    I’d be willing to deal Kershaw. Not due to his talent but due to injury risk on all pitchers. Which is why I wouldn’t trade for Bedar. Erik has yet to go through an entire season without an injury.


    cameron, I think Young might be a sufficient fill-in if Kemp left in a deal so why not just try Kemp, Pierre (for half the salary) and Loaiza for Bedard. The Orioles only really have 1 good outfielder (Markakis) and Loaiza is at least a replacement arm for their rotation. We would have the deepest rotation in baseball if we brought in Bedard and would then have the room to get one of the FA CFs.


    cameron, I think Young might be a sufficient fill-in if Kemp left in a deal so why not just try Kemp, Pierre (for half the salary) and Loaiza for Bedard. The Orioles only really have 1 good outfielder (Markakis) and Loaiza is at least a replacement arm for their rotation. We would have the deepest rotation in baseball if we brought in Bedard and would then have the room to get one of the FA CFs.


    Agreed jungar, but Bedard has huge upside, 221 Ks (with only 57 BBs) in 182 innings shows that he is definitely one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball, his 3.16 ERA and 1.09 WHIP are also really good, especially while playing in the AL East.


    DY can mash but will he be able to play the outfield in the bigs? I love him to death. He’s a great guy but I just don’t know if he can handle the outfield. I still don’t know why they moved him from 2B. He was no worse than the average 2B and his bat made him a good 2B. I don’t know but I don’t think the O’s would take a #5 starter for their ace. I could be wrong but I’m not so sure we could get away with that one.


    Charris we gonna do lunch? How about tommorrow? It may be my last day at work for weeks. My **** baby won’t come out! We are 7 days late!

    not questioning Bedars talent, just the injury history. Brox, Kemp and Kershaw is way to much.


    Hey guys,

    I think we need to remind ourselves here that Matt Kemp is not just some free swinging slugger that can’t hit for average. He was around .330-.340 for most of the year and he a decent amount of ab’s.

    What could this guy do with a full season without Grady’s lineup head games after you go 3-4 with a HR and 2B and then sit the next game?

    I say keep Kemp. Trade Ethier and Young and Abreu if you have to.


    jungar, I’m actually out of town tommorow, I can meet up today but if you can’t we’ll just have to figure it out after the baby. BTW congrats man you must be on pins and needles right now. Just let me know when you’re available next and we’ll meet up in the Town Center Food Court.


    Cabrera is 1 year older than Kemp and has been to 4 All-Star games and has a Championship. Kemp is no Cabrera.


    I will breathe a sigh of great relief if the Yankees sign A-Rod, the Angels outbid the Dodgers for Cabrera, and the Red Sox sign Lowell. We don’t need any of those guys!! We’ve got the players to form a Dodger dynasty right now. All we need is protection from management panic which will break up the team that is possible. The fans watch players developing in the farm system and deserve to see them on their team in the majors. That was the Dodger way. Frank promised to return to the Dodger way. Now let’s see if he meant it or it was so much rubbish. Keep and play the kids!!! They have great potential and chemistry among themselves. Why is that so obvious to so many of the fans but not to management! And why do teams like the Marlins recognize their talent but the Dodgers are willing to give them away. Please wise up before it is to late!!!


    sounds good. Food court is a good spot…yeah I am sort of on chill mode. Obviously excited and and in anticipation, hoping to god its healthy and then it being a boy (being honest, shoot me) but enjoying my last days of freedom!


    True, Cabrera is a great hitter, but not worth Kemp and 3 other players when Kemp’s production might not be far off, not to mention Cabrera’s crappy fielding.


    LOL, I didn’t want to say it but I’m hoping for jungar jr. too, BTW usually when babies are late, they are big (don’t tell your wife that one). Dodger 1st baseman or ace of the future perhaps? So no dice today or should we set a time?


    I agree with that. He’s not worth Kemp and 3 prospects. I wouldn’t trade Kemp for Cabrera anyways. I’d give them LaRoche but I wouldn’t open a spot just to fill another one.


    The obvious is include LaRoche in any Cabrera deal, but the experts keep talking about Cabrera moving to LF or 1B. Then what? Who plays 3b then with La Roche long gone?

    I think I’m starting to side more with “redfox” and giving the old Dodger way a chance for a change.

    We just need to replace Pierre and add a decent, but not great starting pitcher which should cost our best young prospects.


    Buster Olney reports:
    The Los Angeles Dodgers, a team beset with internal strife at the end of last season, have decided to make a heavy play for free agent center fielder Aaron Rowand, sources say.

    Beyond the offense and defense Rowand provides, the Dodgers hope he will also help change the culture of the team. Rowand, 30, hit .309 with 27 homers and 89 RBIs for the Phillies, while playing in 161 games, but he also is regarded as one of the great character players in baseball.

    I like this get rid of Pierre and have an outfield of Ethier/Rowand/Kemp nice!


    I think Cabrera really wants to play third. When the topic of his weight and changing positions can about I think he may have gotten the wake up call. He’s saying that he’s going to be back in shape for ’08.


    Delwyn Young was moved from 2B because of an infield logjam. We had just signed Furcal, Abreu was more highly touted at 2nd, everyone knew that LaRoche was the 3B of the future, and then there’s Loney. So he went to the outfield hoping to move up faster. There was some speculation that he’d make it up before Kemp did, but then Ned traded for Ethier. DY could easily move back to 2B. Towards the end of the season, he was actually taking ground balls and infield drills there. I agree with whoever said much earlier in this post that Abreu is gonna end up a utility man. No real power, decent defense, moderate batting average, not stealing bases, just kind of mediocre.

    Personally, I’d like to see DY spell outfielders and Jeff Kent this year, maybe a little time at 1st. Then, when Jeff Kent retires, he gets plugged in at 2B. Replace an old power hitting 2B with a young power hitting 2B. Abreu should be trade bait or utility infielder. It’d be a nice outfield this year with Young/Kemp/Ethier and Repko on the bench. Hopefully Repko can still at least walk. Sure, the guy’s offense has been lacking but his defense has always been remarkable.


    Those great offensive numbers come from playing in the launching pad of Citizens Bank Park. If the Dodgers are going to get a CF then they better get Jones. His defense and arm are superior to Rowands. Jones had a bad year and still put up almost the same offensive as Rowand while playing in the pitcher friendly Turner Field.


    Another vote for DY at 2B!

    Jones over Rowand’s career year, but I wouldn’t overpay for Jones either.


    Rowand hit .309 .319 at home .299 on the road Rowand and Jones both won gold Gloves so his defense is not superior. Jones hit .222!!!!!


    Diehard, Jones has a lot more pop, was hurt most of last season, and was rated as the top defensive outfielder this past season. He will not hit .222 again.


    Jones’ defense is way superior than Rowands. Rowand won a gold glove because there was a tie in the American League. They gave the AL 4 so they had to give the NL 4.


    Jones’ defense is superior to Pierre’s defense. Jones’ defense is slightly better than Rowands maybe. I never seen Jones take a header in to the fence.


    Jones is a career .263 hitter who has a dead pull swing who will not hit that many homeruns in the thick LA Air. what do you expect him to hit next year. .265 with 25 bombs making 15+ million a year


    So you’re gonna take one play that Rowand made and put it above the hundreds, maybe thousands that Jones has made. Come on man. There isn’t 1 team that would take Rowand over Jones if they had the chance at both of them. I take that back, Ned probably would. Jones is one of the best CF of all time. Rowand is just another good outfielder.


    Rowand hit .269 with 13 jacks in ’05 and .261 with 12 jacks in ’06, no thanks. Hunter is a better option than Rowand.



    Literally tens of thousands of public league baseball players would be an upgrade over Pierre defensively.


    I agree that Kemp is no Cabrera.

    Cabrera is:

    1)a proven all-star hitter for power and average

    2)with rapidly declining defensive skills (3B fielding percentages: 2005 — .971; 2006 — .957; 2007 — .941)

    3)no speed

    4) due for a big, fat contract soon


    1)will soon be (and already would be if not for being held back by Ned/Grady) a proven hitter for power and average (Career Totals: 482 AB, .312 BA, 18 HR, 70 RBI)

    2) is an outstanding physical specimen with excellent speed and a strong arm

    3)likely only to improve as he did not focus on baseball (more on basketball) as a highschooler

    4) will not be due for a huge contract for several years.

    I guess if th trade was straight-up Cabrera-for-Kemp I would have to very reluctantly make it. But to add any other valuable commodity (LaRoche for example) to that trade, and certainly two others (say LaRoche and Broxton)would be a very bad trade for us.


    jones is better than rowand. not by as much as he used to be, but he’s still better. Rowand just had a career year, Jones just had a career bad year. We can’t however have Jones and Pierre on the same team… those combined OBP would kill us.


    What the word on LaRoche’s defense? I haven’t seen enough of him to have any idea really, other than he’s better than Enos Cabell


    We need to do like the Marlins did the the Red Sox. Nobody gets traded unless they take Pierre and his contract.


    For the money Rowand is cheaper I would take Hunter over both of those guys because he seems to take care of himself. Jones is getting fatter and his range is going down you think a fat contract is going to motivate him? I read somewhere that Hunter signed with Texas 6 years 90 million. I don’t like fat lazy players like Jones maybe I’m bias.


    I know that Delwyn used to play 2B, but what I don’t know is if he was any good at it. Anybody?

    Andruw Jones v. Aaron Rowand

    is like

    Andre Dawson v. Andy Van Slyke

    Van Slyke and Rowand are nice players, but hardly deserve mention in the same sentence with Dawson and Jones.


    From a ESPN Chat:

    Fred (Austin, TX): Am I overvaluing Dodger prospects? It seems that any combination of three- Billingsley, Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche or Loney is too high a price for a guy you can keep for two years. Maybe one of those guys (NOT Loney) plus Ethier, and eat much of Pierre’s contract and maybe even a mid-level prospect (such as McDonald)

    SportsNation Keith Law: (2:04 PM ET ) I agree. If I’m Colletti, Kemp, Loney, Kershaw, and Billingsley are untouchable. I’d deal LaRoche, but I wouldn’t be in a rush, and I’d like to give him one shot at the job first. Ethier I’d deal. Broxton & Meloan I’d deal. Elbert if/when he’s healthy, Abreu, even Hu. But not the big four.


    Keith Law is the smartest man I know. Trade Brox and Meloan and let the bull pen lose every game for you. That’s smart. I’m sure the Red Sox are shopping Okajima too. Give me a break. Top notch releivers are hard to come by, especially somebody that figures to be a dominate closer.


    Keith Law’s Take on Rowand


    Rowand is among a number of 2007 free agents who posted unusually good numbers in their walk seasons. He hit 25 home runs in 2005 and 2006 combined, then hit a career-high 27 in 2007. Rowand has an all-out swing and gets his head off the ball very early; he’s looking for something in the zone he can drive, preferably a fastball, and he’ll chase high-hard stuff and breaking balls down and in or down and away. It’s hard to see this approach leading to more than the occasional .300 average. In center field, he has average range (broken noses aside) and an average arm, but he tries to play outside his skills, making the difficult play but not the easy one, overthrowing the cutoff man as if his arm was plus, and so on.

    Unless we believe Rowand’s big performance spike is real, he’s a good fourth outfielder who’s about to be paid like an above-average starter. Worthy of a two-year deal, he’ll almost certainly get four or five years — think Gary Matthews Jr., both in terms of contract and results.


    cameron, you are understandably biased in favor of Big John.

    The point is that Bills and Kershaw are of higher value hands down. How many championships has middle relief brought us the last few years? Even a great closer like Sammy can’t close games that we’re trailing in.


    From Rotoworld:

    Sources tell ESPN’s Buster Olney that the Dodgers intend to make a “heavy play” for free agent Aaron Rowand.

    It still seems very much like the wrong solution for the Dodgers, who would make Juan Pierre one of the game’s worst left fielders if they spent big on a center fielder for a second year in a row. Andre Ethier, who would seemingly be knocked out of the starting lineup by such a move, has a higher career OPS in his two seasons than either Rowand or Torii Hunter. Of course, all three are better hitters than Pierre. Nov. 15 – 1:31 pm et


    If it takes Billingley, LaRoche & Kemp to get Cabrera, let me go on record saying NO WAY. There are plenty other young talents in this organization that the Marlins can have.


    Yeah I want him in Dodger Blue but that’s not why I say what I say. There isn’t 1 team out there that makes it to the playoffs without a good bullpen unless you play in a week division like the Cubs. Bills and Kershaw are with out a doubt a higher value. But to trade away the future 1-2 punch in the pen for 1 position is crazy. It doesn’t matter how many runs you score or how good your starter are, if you have a weak bullpen you’re not going to the postseason. They make good position players everyday but good pitchers are hard to come by, especially good relief pitchers.


    An outfield of Pierre, Rowand, and Kemp is really not much different than an outfield of Pierre, Ethier, and Kemp…other than the added 10-12 million Rowand would cost.

    Colletti insists on making the same bone-headed mistake, overpaying veterans and playing them in favor of cheap young talent that will yield similar production. UNREAL!


    If the Dodgers trade Loney or Kemp for Cabrera they are nuts. We finally get a couple of kids who will probably hit over 30 home runs each playing full time and we are considering trading them. The management need their heads examided What is the purpose of drafting good players and training them to trade them off. Mark my words. if either of them are traded they will go somewhere else and be superstars.


    Kemp (.295 EQA at age 22-23 last season) is better than Hunter (.277 EQA at age 31-32 last season, career high of .282), even factoring in Hunter’s defense.


    Equivalent Average. A measure of total offensive value per out, with corrections for league offensive level, home park, and team pitching. EQA considers batting as well as baserunning, but not the value of a position player’s defense. The EqA adjusted for all-time also has a correction for league difficulty. The scale is deliberately set to approximate that of batting average. League average EqA is always equal to .260. EqA is derived from Raw EqA, which is (H + TB + 1.5*(BB + HBP + SB) + SH + SF) divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SH + SF + CS + SB). REqA is then normalized to account for league difficulty and scale to create EqA.


    I get why everyone automatically assumes that if we sign Rowand we would trade Ethier, but one never knows and Ned could just as easily trade Pierre and $$$. An outfield of Ethier, Rowand, Kemp (DY, Repko on bench) is really really nasty offensively and defensively, and its simply STARING NED IN THE FACE. I hope he makes it happen. If not, i hope we get great value for Ethier.


    More ESPN chat:

    JimBeau (Left Coast): What will be the five worst signings this winter? (And for extra credit, the worst trade?)

    SportsNation Keith Law: (3:05 PM ET ) Romero, Rowand, Hunter, Linebrink, Glavine, and the worst trade will be whatever trade the Dodgers make that includes one or more of Kemp/Kershaw/Billingsley.


    I must’ve read that wrong, It must mean that they all stand a chance to be traded for Cabrera. Trading Billingsley & Loney is suicide. Kemp will be banging out long ones against us pretty soon. LaRoche will be expendable if 3rd base is taken up unless Kent decides not to come back.


    JimBeau (Left Coast): What will be the five worst signings this winter? (And for extra credit, the worst trade?)

    SportsNation Keith Law: (3:05 PM ET ) Romero, Rowand, Hunter, Linebrink, Glavine, and the worst trade will be whatever trade the Dodgers make that includes one or more of Kemp/Kershaw/Billingsley.


    Isn’t it sad that the Dodgers are heavily involved in both of those projections?


    It would be great if the Marlins want a speedy outfielder with no arm and a couple of young farm hands. LaRoche I can see too in a 3rd base deal.


    I can’t believe Saito did not even get one Cy Young vote! Not even one third place vote!

    My vote went like this:

    1. Peavy

    2. Saito

    3. Webb

    4. Hamels

    5. Heath Bell

    6. Smoltz

    7. Chris Young

    8. Marmol

    9. Hudson

    10. El Duque

    The actual vote went like this:

    1. Peavy

    2. Webb

    3. Penny

    4. Harang

    5. Zambrano

    6. Hamels

    6. Smoltz

    6. Valverde

    9. Francis

    The Baseball Writers just don’t get it!! Wins and Losses are not what make a pitcher dominating!! You gotta look at the real numbers: WHIP, ERA, OPP. AVG, OPP. OBP.


    Glad you saw it too, manny3vee.

    Mr. McCourt: If you have one of your minions reading this blog, please keep Ned from trading away are best players, thank you.

    My guess id Florida is asking for the sky, but will settle for less. ARE YOU LISTENING, NED????


    This was mine.












    Somneone posted a link to a Giants Board earlier in this thread. Ned should be forced to read it. They are desperately hoping he’ll make the moves that are rumored, because it would hurt us so badly.

    I hate reading this blog. Not because of you guys, but every time I do there is a new rumor out there that has me scared to death.

    The answer for next year–stand pat. We have an 18 and the dealer is showing a 4. Let’s not bust out here.

    If A-Rod is off the board and going back to the Yankees, there is no more than one major free agent or trade move that would make sense for us, which is signing Lowell (and, versus giving LaRoche a shot, I don’t think it’s a good move, but at least it won’t kill us). Everything else that is out there or has been rumored to be out there makes us probably worse now and in the future.

    Martin, Loney, Billingsley, Kemp, Broxton just should not be dealt. At all. Period. Even Cabrerra for Kemp straight up. LaRoche should really only be included in a trade for Cabrerra, or if we were to sign A-Rod or Lowell.

    Signing a centerfielder is a fine idea. Jones, Hunter, Rowand, whatever. But I’m against it. As a number of people mentioned, moving JP to left just makes the situation worse. But is there anyone out there that truly thinks that if we sign a top centerfielder that we are going to either bench Pierre and his $9 Million salary or get someone to take him in a trade (that doesn’t include trading off an important young player)? Really?

    If there is a free agent pitcher to sign, or a pitcher we can get in trade for a couple of lower-level prospects (prospects being guys who are not major league players–i.e. Martin, Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, Broxton, Ethier, Abreu, and LaRoche [and maybe Hu]), then fine.

    It’s going to be a long winter of being scared that we will do something dumb. Bill Simmons suggests that each team have a VP of Common Sense to advise on trades. Ned should hire anyone who posts here to do that, so that they can tell him “that’s crazy!”

    They formally announced that the Dodgers will play an exhibition game at the Coliseum on March 29th, which is very cool. I’ll be there. I just hope that I am there cheering for the guys we have and not booing some boneheaded move made in desperation of “winning now” (which won’t pan out) or because they don’t understand the value of what we have.

    It’s going to be a long winter.


    The answer for next year–stand pat. We have an 18 and the dealer is showing a 4. Let’s not bust out here.

    This is the best line ever. lee you are the man as always!!


    I agree with leekfink.

    Let’s put DY in LF and not play (maybe trade) Pierre.

    Furcal SS

    Loney 1B

    Kemp CF

    Kent 2B

    Martin C

    Ethier RF

    Young LF

    LaRoche 3B


    Give LaRoche a decent shot and concentrate on the pitching.
    Unless you can figure out a way to deal Pierre. He is the weak link in the chain right now.


    Shoulda used the Chewbacca defense:

    Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I’m a lawyer defending a major leauge ballplayer on steroids, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberatin’ and conjugatin’ the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.


    As far as Pierre goes, I keep asking myself how Grady could sit just about ANYBODY in a must win game, yet Pierre found his name on the line-up card every single solitary day, even in the shuttle zone known as the Dodgers 2007 outfield. I hope Torre addresses the consecutive game streak behind closed doors…unless, of course, Pierre is bye bye.


    hahaha jungar the good ol chebacca speech. and we all gotta accept that pierre is staying in la. i think when he falls into a slump this year torre will be wise enough to take him out of the order instead of just putting him at the 8 spot. now i think we need to get miggy and sign hunter or rowand to fill the whole in the outfield once kemp leaves


    I mean, if Pierre stays, then people should boycott opening day at least. Ned can’t look anyone in the eye and honestly say that Pierre playing anywhere between the lines gives the Dodgers the best chance to win.


    a lot of people are forgeting that canrera is only 24. he’s younger than ethier, and only a few months older than laroche and kemp, yet this guys already hitting 30+ homers, driving in 100+RBI’s, and making all star teams like no problem. if we can get him for only kemp, laroche, and a minor leugue pitching prospect other than kershaw, i would do it.


    I mean, if Pierre stays, then people should boycott opening day at least. Ned can’t look anyone in the eye and honestly say that Pierre playing anywhere between the lines gives the Dodgers the best chance to win.

    Posted by: | November 15, 2007 03:45 PM

    Amen Brother!


    over at dodger thought ,Jon posted this…

    If one is not willing to factor in the fact that almost any major league outfielder would do more with Pierre’s 729 plate appearances than Pierre did, even factoring in Pierre’s speed, then there’s no point in discussing him.

    With 729 plate appearances, 275 total bases (164 singles, 24 doubles, 8 triples, 33 walks, 6 HBP) plus 64 stolen bases, minus 15 caught stealing, minus 10 GIDP, is simply feeble. Almost any MLB outfielder – and certainly Ethier and Kemp – given those opportunities, would have crushed those numbers.

    Let’s move on.


    c’mon guys, lets be optimistic. maybe pierre can actually hit a home run this season. or maybe he’ll catch a pop fly in an important playoff race game against sd, instead of letting it go over his head


    Michael you are optimistic, this (i get the sarcasam) team making it to the playoffs with Pierre on the roster…nice.


    Open Letter to Ned,

    Mr. Colletti,

    I would hope you have learned from you incredible mistakes.

    If you had just listened to the fans and bloggers, perhaps you would have made much better decisions. You are supposed to be an educated baseball person, but you have painted the Dodgers into a corner reminescient of the Giants. Seems, that you would have learned some lessons. Do not compound the problem by overpaying for overpriced, over the hill veterans that will not only underperform, but cut your throat in the clubhouse. You should have been let go before Grady as you saddlleded him with a situation that he could not possibly have any success. Give LaRoche a shot and get rid of Pierre as you did ODalis. Stand up for your shortcomings now and you will be more respected in the long run.


    it’s offical:

    arods a yankee

    bonds has been indicted

    jp still blows

    and the dodgers still need a thrid basemen


    well we just dodged a huge bullet, now ned cannot sign bonds to play LF.

    ARod and the Yankees deserve each other.


    so what do you guys think the dodgers should do with the outfield, third base spot, and pitching.

    i say improve the bullpen by getting matt herges, he was a clutch reliver for the rox. saito,brox, proctor, beimel, and herges would be a solid pen. than maybe bring up a young gun like meloan or something.

    we have 3 legit starters. lowe, penny, and bills. schmidt could return if he’s healthy and at least eat up innings, at best turn into his old self. the last spot in that rotation. do you we trade for santana, go with loiza, or pick up free agent like wolf,weaver,livan, or fogg.

    as for the outfield, its a mess. do you stay with pierre, kemp, ethier. or get ris of one of those guys and sign hunter, jones, or rowand.

    now the third base spot. do we trade for miggy. try and sign lowell, or settle with what we got. laroche, abreu, and nomar


    From the DodgerThoughts comment section:

    321. fiddlestick 2007-11-15 14:53:31

    If only Johnny Cochrane were still around. I’d love to see him have Barry [Bonds] try to cram his dome into his Pirates hat from 1990. “If it fits, you must acquit!”


    michaelmavis – I think just about every regular poster here has commented on each of those subjects – except perhaps the bullpen – more than once over the course of the last few entries!

    Stick with Saito, Big Blue Brox, Every Day Scott Proctor, Joe Beimel. Round up the usual, fungible middle relief suspects and see what sticks. Troy Percival anyone? (Herges will be 38 next season, by the way.) Meloan may come up to stay after a couple months seasoning in AAA, sorta like Broxton did (only he did it in one month!).

    Most of the FA starters blow. Wolf can be ok, but an injury risk – he might come cheap enough. Kuo is still around, but fragile too. Colletti will want Livan, who’s gotta be older than listed and can’t continue to get by with the slop he throws – in fact, he was positively Tomkoesque that last two seasons and marginal the year before that.

    The OF “mess” is cleaned up quite simply – release Juan Pierre. Give Young/Kemp/Ethier OF a try. If the price is low enough, AJones works for me: Ethier/Jones/Kemp. Not interested in Rowand – too many crummy seasons, career year on a contract walk season, hmmm? Hunter has an arm, tracks balls better and has some power, but no plate discipline, low OBPs, too high a contract demand and is too old (32) for the years he wants (6).

    3B – LaRoche was the best Dodger hitting prospect even when Kemp and Loney were still his competition. Give him the shot – there is a reasonable probability that he is Mike Lowell’s eventual equal. Or Ron Cey. Miggy is very tempting, but the price must not be crippling, and the deal must include an extension with a weight clause and a renaming of the RF bleachers as the Piggy Miggy Memorial All-You-Can-Eat Right Field Pavilion.


    fogey, that line up ain’t gonna get us a world seris win for a while. we need an effective leader. and we all know colleti won’t release pierre. and what do you wanna do if we give laroche the shot and he’s posting a 260 average in june. they brought torre here to win now.your thoughts seem like the smart way to go, but it can backfire on us. no matter what, i’m a dodger fan, but i don’t really want another grueling season of under achieving


    I know that a lot of rumors are flying around that have no truth to them. But with the Dodgers track record for stupid moves, I get nervous every time I read one like this:

    The Dodgers, who have a well-stocked farm system, have been one of the most aggressive suitors for Erik Bedard, according to a team source. Among the players that have been discussed, the source said, are: Matt Kemp, a 23-year-old outfielder; Jonathan Broxton, a 23-year-old reliever; and Clayton Kershaw, a 19-year-old left-handed starter who is regarded as one of the top prospects in baseball. However, those three players reportedly also are being mentioned in trade talks between the Dodgers and Florida Marlins involving the latter’s starting third baseman, Miguel Cabrera. — Baltimore Sun

    Has Dodger management lost all it’s sanity? They should have made it clear long ago that these players are NOT available. If they are really talking trades involving any of these players they are CRAZY!!

    The worst mistake that Frank made was not continuing with Dan Evans as GM. Dan understood the value or home grown talent and wouldn’t engage in getting rid of the cream of the crop from the Dodger farm system. His two successors don’t seem to have a clue in this regard. Why is Colletti so anxious to give mega bucks to other teams’ players while giving away his own. I bet most GMs search him out for trades because he is obviously a soft touch whose out-of-touch with reality.


    I dont know how you can say this line up could not contend for a world series:










    And for the record, Bedard is pretty nasty…. I’d make a move for him with Kemp assuming we sign either Jones or Hunter… I just know we have the depth to not make trades with our Grade A prospects…


    Ned has said he does not depend on Schmidt for 08 already on awhile back(Oct). We do need pitching. Thats where our energy should be spent or on a decent deal for Miggy.

    mk, rm, jl, cb; no trade.

    You get Miggy so u can add to those players, his bat can carry a team for a month.


    November 15, 2007
    About Schmidt

    Jason Schmidt was cleared today to begin throwing, and he’ll likely start with tossing next week in Arizona.

    wow..just after that post..well this is cool..lets pray for the best. It would b huge if he was just 85% as good..170 innin..4.5era



    LOS ANGELES – The Dodgers are in the market for a center fielder even though they invested heavily in the position only an offseason ago, and Aaron Rowand is one free agent that has emerged on their radar.

    Agent Craig Landis said Thursday that he has had contact with a Dodgers official about Rowand, who could provide an All-Star and Gold Glove upgrade over Juan Pierre.

    “The interest is definitely mutual,” Landis said. “He definitely would be interested in hearing what the Dodgers have to say as time goes on.”

    Rowand, 30, is coming off a career year with the Philadelphia Phillies, hitting .309 with 27 home runs and 89 RBI. He is seeking a long-term contract with no-trade protection that could garner him up to $15 million per year.

    One factor working in the Dodgers’ favor is that Rowand has Southern California ties, having grown up in Glendora and attended Cal State Fullerton. In turn, he could provide the team with a positive clubhouse presence, not to mention power in his bat.

    Pierre could be shifted to left field if the Dodgers do land Rowand or another premium center fielder such as Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones.

    “The interest appears to depend on a lot of things,” Landis said. “The Dodgers are apparently focusing on a veteran club and various ways to spend money. Aaron is a candidate, and so are other people via trade and free agency. It’s still in the early process.”


    I wonder if we could all start a letter writing campaign to get ned fired, or a protest of some sort, storm the dodgers FO… But seriously Im not sure who’s really in charge here. It was clearly McCourt who brought in Torre, Ned looks like a total outsider in the org now. The thought is that McCourt wants to stay with the kids, but he hires a manager who surely is going to want a bunch of wily veterans playing for him. I mean is this org just completely without a plan, or a clue? Thats what it seems like from the outside.


    I thought we already had a “premium” centerfielder. Are you telling me that 45 mil/ 5 years doesn’t buy you a premium CF anymore?!? Hahahaha. It would be so funny if it wasn’t so sad and screwed up.


    It’s very simple if a center fielder is brought in, it MUST be Pierre who goes. There is nobody in this world who can convince me Pierre/Rowand/Kemp is better than Ethier/Rowand/Kemp. You substitute any center fielder in Rowand’s place and my stance would not change.

    I don’t care what it takes but Pierre cannot be on this team if we sign another outfielder. The mere implication that we are going after another center fielder is admitting the mistake made by signing Pierre. If Ethier is traded away after a center fielder is signed we basically gave away the same player we’ve just signed and we’re paying probably 10-12 million more dollars.

    The safe bet is to shore up the bullpen and back end of the rotation and choose one area (center field or third base). The other spot take care of in house. The biggest move we make this offseason could be the move to say ‘No thanks”. And I think we’d be better off for it.


    I believe it’s not impossible that Colletti will dump Pierre. The reports that he is looking for a new CF indicates that he has seen the error of his ways. Starting no-power “Popgun” Pierre in a corner outfield position is such an obviously insane idea that I suspect even Colletti understands it.

    We all became resigned to the idea that Grady Little would be back next year, and Colletti eventually recognized that mistake and remedied it. That indicates to me — perhaps this is wishful thinking — that Colletti is capable of recognizing and remedying his mistakes.

    I agree with those here who believe that merely dumping Juan Pierre and making no other major off-season move is sufficient to make the Dodgers serious World Championship contenders. I would applaud the addition of Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter, but I don’t consider such an addition necessary.

    I am as frightened as anybody by the many rumors that Ned will trade some of our young studs. In particular, my stomache sinks every time I hear Matt Kemp’s name in one of these stories. However, I am heartened by the fact that until now the only youngsters of any consequence that Colletti actually has traded are:

    1) Joel Guzman who was properly dispatched to join all the other talented problem children in Tampa Bay

    2) Dioner Navarro, who obviously became disposable when Russell Martin put a deathgrip on the catcher position. To the best of my knowledge Navarro did not deserve to be sent the Tampa Bay Zoo. Sorry about that, Dioner.

    Remember, too, that Colletti resisted the urge to trade Loney and much more for Mark Texeira last July. And that was at a point when Loney was less proven than Kemp is today.

    I suspect that some will seize on my words “perhaps this is wishful thinking” as the truest and most pertinent part of this post. But I’m going to hold onto that hope; for sanity’s sake I must.


    Is it wrong of me to be elated by the news that Barry Bonds has been indicted?

    Barry’s a big, strong man; he should be able to avoid unwanted buggery while he’s in the pen. Given that, I have no qualms about him spending a little time there.

    But more importantly, any kind of conviction even if it’s a plea-bargain will surely keep him out of the Hall of Fame.

    Just a note for those who have never been to Cooperstown. The Hall of Fame Museum is divided into two parts. One part is a museum, a fantastic museum but nonetheless only a museum. Pete Rose is represented here (was in 2004 anyway) as part of the Big Red Machine and for his hits record. Nothing wrong with that.

    (A quick disclaimer: The following description should be understood within the confines of a baseball, and not a religious, discussion.) The other part of the Hall of Fame Museum is the actual “Hall of Fame”, a room filled with plaques representing those baseball greats who have been voted in. This is a sacred place where one may honor the elect of the sport. Here one quietly learns of past heroes, and if you are very quiet and listen with your heart you can feel the greats who may be visiting. No place in baseballdom, not Fenway, Wrigley, Yankee Stadium or Dodger Stadium is more sacred than the Hall of Fame. It is a place where Dodgers fans can embrace Giants fans and Red Sox fans put away their hate for the Yankees because it is understood that The Game is bigger than any one team or any one player.


    Maybe the past always looks rosier, but I can’t remember a time when I bemoaned a Campanis trade. But these days, I shudder just thinking about Colletti…much like the rest of the bloggers. At least if he botches free agent signings, he only costs the club ca$h. But I hate to think of losing the kids before we even see what they can do…


    this sticks out. I am past the point of caring about Juan Pierre anymore.

    “The Dodgers are apparently focusing on a veteran club and various ways to spend money. Aaron is a candidate, and so are other people via trade and free agency. It’s still in the early process.”


    I read that too jungar. That goes to show you that Ned and Frank don’t have the slightest idea about baseball. Frank should buy a car dealership and let Ned run that but they both need to get out of the Dodgers orginization.


    TAIPEI, Taiwan — Andy LaRoche hit a two-run homer in the first inning to lead the United States to a 3-1 win Friday over South Korea and advance to the semifinals of the Baseball World Cup.


    A Crede trade may occur quite soon, and almost certainly by the end of the winter meetings in a couple weeks. There’s no shortage of suitors, like both L.A. clubs and Boston, but the Dodgers have the best stockpile of young players and offer the best chance for the Sox to reload quickly. (…)

    With starter Chad Billingsley probably untouchable, look for the Sox to pursue two or three of the following players in a package: second baseman Tony Abreau, outfielder Matt Kemp, second baseman/outfielder Delwyn Young, outfielder James Loney, reliever Jonathan Broxton, and monster left-handed pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw. One of those players can be sent to Florida for Cabrera, the 24-year-old third baseman who beat the Marlins at arbitration for $7.4 million last season, and is due to become a free agent after 2009. The Sox would want him in left field, where Cabrera played earlier in his career when Ozzie Guillen was a coach with Florida and the Marlins won the World Series.


    That is way, way to much for Crede. Tell the Sox that we’ll give them Pierre and Abreu for Crede. That’s about his worth. Maybe we can throw in an A-Class ball player or something.


    I guess the 2nd best 3b prospect in baseball and the guy about to be team USA MVP is not good enough. Nor is Kemp hitting .340. I will hold out that I am just pessimistic by nature when it comes to the dodgers front office. I have been dealing with ****** now for 20+ years. But if they trade all these kids then I am done and will be an angel fan.

    I will take Obi Wan’s advice.

    Who is more foolish, the fool or the fool who follow the fool?


    Notice the degree of confidence that everyone here has in Colletti. Why was Little the only one to go?
    I too am petrified of any move that Colletti is likely to make. Instead of following through with developing our youth movement, it sounds like we’re ready to derail everything to come up with a 3rd baseman (no matter who, as long as he’s a veteran) and probably a CF, so that we can move Pierre and screw up our LF position instead. I hope that McCourt is ready to stick to his guns and keep his patience with our younger guys. It wasn’t Kemp or Loney who let down the team in the stretch, and LaRoche hardly had a chance to prove anything, since he was coming off being hurt. Is it too much to leave things in place and see how 2008 develops? If we were seriously going after a top quality starting pitcher, I could understand, because we’ll need someone to replace Schmidt and Wolf, Colletti acquisitions that they were.


    we’re ready to derail everything to come up with a 3rd baseman (no matter who, as long as he’s a veteran)

    We have one who we are already paying 10 million for. How soon we forget. And yeah your right bear we will go spend 100 million on CF instead of playing Kemp/Ethier/Young and we will trade 3 prospect for a starter because Schmidt and Loazia are old now too.

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