The latest
You guys actually crack me up…don’t worry, no one’s mad at you, especially not me. The lineups have been late this week because I’m not with the team right now. As you’ve seen throughout the year, I split the the 80 road games with our assistant PR director so when I’m not there, it takes a little longer to get them online, but I’m certainly not holding it against anyone just because I’ve been criticized this week. It comes with this job and I accept that.
I should, however, clarify one thing in the comments of the blog and that is that I have never worked for the Giants, nor am I a Giants fan. It seems kind of silly to have to explain myself given that I’ve been working for the Dodgers since I was 18 years old (with the exception of two years in the middle) but I was born and raised in LA and have been coming to Dodger Stadium since I was five years old. I’m as big of a Dodger fan as the rest of you, but I obviously get the benefit of hearing why we do the things that we do directly from those making decisions so it’s a little easier for me to understand it. It’s no easier when we lose, I guarantee that. I take these losses as hard as you all do.
For one season in 2002, I covered the Giants for MLB.com just like the guy who covered for the San Francisco Chronicle, Oakland Tribune, etc. I’m no more of a Giants fan than Ken Gurnick, Tony Jackson, Diamond Leung, Al Balderas, Kevin Baxter or any of our other media members are Dodger fans. The job I had is an impartial one and that’s why I continue to try to make it clear that I have no problem with DodgerTalk’s host or callers criticizing the team (or me, for that matter). The only reason I moved up North was because my girlfriend at the time (now wife) was living up there so I figured it was an easy way for us to live in the same city. It seems to have worked out perfectly for us, but I can tell you that I have never drawn a paycheck from the Giants (MLB pays those who work for the league’s site).
For that matter, I don’t think that just because people like Ned or Stan Conte did work for the Giants at one time, means that they are secretly sabotaging the team and remain Giants fans. I can assure you that you would be hard pressed to find two people working harder or more diligently towards bringing the Dodgers a championship than those two – whether or not you agree with what they or the rest of the team does.
Here’s today’s lineup:
Pierre, CF
Abreu, SS
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Martin, C
Ethier, RF
LaRoche, 3B
Lowe, P
Inside the Dodgers 
“It’s pretty self-explanatory — we’re not winning,” said Loney. “It’s a little tough. It doesn’t feel good, you know? I’m having fun. Maybe some of the other guys aren’t having fun. Some of them don’t look like they’re having fun, but I am.”
guess who is not having fun?
im sick of looking the name called “gonzo” in the lineup!!!
Go ahead — keep stroking Gonzo’s ego by playing him even though the team is done. WHERE IS KEMP???
gonzo has played 3 straight games!
does that mean anything? maybe he is the one complaining! no surprise there!!!
Gonzo is a clubhouse cancer (not in the traditional sense, but in the huge veteran ego sense).
Last I checked, Gonzo doesn’t have any escalator clauses that trigger with games played or ABs. Sit him the F down.
Matt Holliday is 13-for-22, and Brad Hawpe is 10-for-20 with three homers against Derek Lowe.
it would be a long day for D. Lowe
I think it’s safe to say that we’re going to miss the playoffs so why aren’t all our young guys playing?
The outfield should be Young, Kemp and Either.
All the young guys aren’t playing because:
1) Grady lives in Fantasy Land and thinks the team has a chance
2) Gonzo is big time whiner about playing time
well if grady is on his rayt mind he will play all the youngters!!
but the so called “experience veterans” are the one who will help this team get into the playoffs! unbelievable!
Hi All. I found this on ESPN’s Rumblings and Grumblind section. Funny….they were showing the 8 managers who may be axed and the odds around that. Grady was not one of them. Actually, when discussing Torre, the talk was around who would be next after Torre — Mattingly or Girardi. IMO, Mattingly has the edge due to age (Girardi is only 42). Funny….lots of us here were talking about the Dodgers looking internally for coaches and here the Yankees are doing just that.
Also, I find it curious the the Angels are battling for best record in baseball. Oh, look at that……Mike Scoscia is their manager and an ex-catcher who played with ball$ and has a GM who doesn’t go out and bring in old vets, yet gets criticized for doing nothing at the trade deadline.
Anyways, enjoy this…….
if people in Boston are thinking the Red Sox might also be able to export J.D. Drew, eh, good luck. “I’ve never seen that kind of look, for a kid with that kind of talent,” said one scout who watched the Red Sox this month. “That kid just has no passion for the sport, from what I can see. And even the talent I question now. He had incredible talent. I don’t know how much talent he’s got left. He doesn’t show you much of it anymore.”
Who cares? Gonzo won’t be back next year so sit his *** down. If he doesn’t like it then send him home early or release him with 10 games left I don’t care. He has no business in the line-up.
I am SICK, SICK, SICK of these damned senior citizens in our lineups everyday.
Please, Ned, for the sake or your job: Sign some people IN THEIR PRIME and mix them in with the youngsters. This philosophy about bringing in AARP cardholders has got to stop.
cameron…
tell ur cousin that it’s all good for us fans…
he is still the man! Future closer!
Got to get that crappy Matt Kemp out of the lineup.
C’mon Josh, Ther’s no excuse to not playing Kemp. He hits all pitchers well, that’s why he’s batting close to .330 all year.
If the season’s over: there’s no excuse to playing Gonzo.
If the season’s NOT over yet: there’s no excuse for not playing Kemp – NONE!
There’s no explaining your way out of this one Grady.
cameron you are right on:
Young, Kemp, Ethier!
Cameron and Scott — I’m find with the OF, but what do you do about Pierre.
I don’t understand WHY the baseball world in general or the LA media is taking a tougher stand on Grady. If this was NY or Chitown (and we already know about Boston) Grady would be getting RIPPED daily and frankly so would some of the players on the team. I just don’t get it. Why must we accept Grady managing this team any longer? Why?
orth_joseph@yahoo.com,
JP would make an “ok” LF for someone who doesn’t have 3 fine all around OF ready to go like the Dodgers. Send him to another team, pay 1/2 his salary and get a nice role player in return I say.
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I just wanna win one already!
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After the game, I think Kennedy was explaining about Pierre doing exactly what he was brough in for and doing — 200 hits, 5-60 SB, etc. I just think that those “pro” stats haven’t negated the “con” stats of Pierre’s defense.
Pierre’s crappy defense (arm, routes) is the issue, because he has done what he usually does offensively, albeit I’m not a big fan of his game either way.
Jon Weisman writes about the Dodgers and baseball at Dodger Thoughts.
—
The easiest thing to do in baseball is to blame the manager. The hardest thing to do is find someone who can do the job better.
With the Los Angeles Dodgers tumbling from first place in the National League West on July 29 to fourth place on Thursday morning, despite the highest payroll and arguably the most contributions from the farm system of any team in the division, some Dodgers fans aren’t looking for someone to blame. They’ve already found their man, and folks in the Northeast will probably recognize the name.
If Grady Little hasn’t worn out his welcome in Los Angeles yet, he’s worn it down. Thanks to the development of sassily talented young players such as James Loney, Matt Kemp, Russell Martin and Chad Billingsley, there’s plenty of hope for the Dodgers in 2008. But after a honeymoon in 2006 that saw Los Angeles reach the playoffs, there’s also plenty of doubt as to whether Little is the right manager for the job.
What else is new in baseball, right?
Little, of course, has been tattooed with the memory of being the one who failed to call in the tow truck the night Pedro Martinez ran out of gas for the Red Sox in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. When Little got his next managerial job before the 2006 season and began his first Spring Training, he was asked about Martinez nearly every day.
This year, Martinez has been the least of anyone’s concerns with Little. Instead, it’s been all about Little’s starting lineups for the Dodgers, because pretty much every single game this season, the names Little wrote on the lineup card raised questions, such as:
Why wasn’t Kemp playing more? Not until Sept. 4-8 did Kemp (currently with a .900 OPS) start five games in a row, and even after that period, he sat three times in the next seven.
Why wasn’t Juan Pierre playing less? Despite his weak bat and arm, Pierre has maintained the longest current consecutive games played streak in baseball. Even after reaching base at a .408 clip this month, Pierre’s season-long OBP is .330. Sure, he was general manager Ned Colletti’s prize offseason position-player signing, but did that mean Little couldn’t rest Pierre at all?
Why did Little insist from April into June that Nomar Garciaparra could not play third base, only to move him there after he spent 285 plate appearances at first with a .648 OPS and one home run?
Why wasn’t the sore-ankled and subsequently ineffective Rafael Furcal getting more rest to get him healthy? Why wasn’t All-Star catcher Russell Martin getting more rest to keep him hardy?
Why hadn’t Andre Ethier, with an .800 OPS on the year, .820 for his career and .825 since the All-Star Break, started in more than five consecutive games since June?
Not everyone was bothered by all the questions, but virtually all were vexed by some. Lineup frustration became de rigueur for Dodgers fans of all stripes.
And then, over five consecutive games earlier this month, as the Dodgers made one last uphill charge for the playoffs, renewed concern over Little’s management of the pitching staff reached unprecedented heights for him in Los Angeles, and the atmosphere surrounding him became more toxic:
• Sept 6: After allowing Derek Lowe to bat for himself with two runners on and a 2-1 lead in the top of the seventh, Little removed Lowe after letting him face only one more batter.
• Sept 7: In an almost identical situation, after allowing Billingsley to bat with one on and a 3-1 lead in the seventh, Little took Billingsley out after just one more batter — Barry Bonds — reached base.
• Sept. 8: David Wells, claimed on waivers at 44 only days earlier, was given the rope that Lowe and Billingsley didn’t get, allowed to stay in the game with the tying run up to bat in the bottom of sixth.
• Sept. 9: Little removed his ace, Brad Penny, after Penny let the tying run reach base on a leadoff eighth-inning double. Penny had thrown 82 pitches. This was more easily explained than what happened with Lowe and Billingsley, since there was no pinch-hitting opportunity immediately preceding. But then Little ended up using lefty Joe Beimel just to give Barry Bonds an intentional walk, before replacing Beimel with righty Jonathan Broxton even though switch-hitting pinch-hitter Ray Durham is a better hitter from the left side.
• Sept. 11: After an off day, the Dodgers faced San Diego in their biggest series of the year. Another waiver claim, Esteban Loaiza, allowed four runs on four walks, two singles and a homer in the first two innings. The Dodgers loaded the bases in the bottom of the second inning, but even with an endless September bullpen to choose from, Little left Loaiza in to bat for himself.
Though the Dodgers won two of those five games, much remaining patience with Little seemed to be lost. The Dodgers were compelled to make statements defending him, suggesting that few if any could have done better in blending the Dodgers’ mix of old and young players.
Internet chatters and talk show callers weren’t satiated, feeling that Little should have been less concerned about players’ feelings and more concerned with just getting the right players in the games. (In fact, dissatisfaction with Little has spun into a separate side battle between the Dodgers and their radio outlet as to whether the host of the team’s postgame call-in show should attempt to calm the more exasperated callers.) Reports of anonymous Dodgers questioning Little’s lineups fueled the fire.
And so now the Dodgers, a team that went from 1954 to 1996 with only two managers, have die-hard fans calling for them to fire their fifth manager since that time. It’s been less than two years since the last one, Jim Tracy, was cashiered.
To be sure, not everyone thinks Little is the Dodgers’ biggest problem. Some have simply blamed injuries, but Colletti is also taking a good deal of heat. He has a mixed record at best in player acquisitions, and there’s a strong case to be made that most credit for whatever success the Dodgers are having should go to assistant GM of scouting Logan White, the man in charge of drafting most of the team’s young talent. White and vice president/assistant GM Kim Ng are among the top candidates for any major league GM openings, and plenty have suggested that the Dodgers would be worse off to lose either of those two than Colletti.
Going into play today, the Dodgers have lost 73 games, six more than the top three teams in the NL, Arizona, San Diego and the New York Mets. Six months of baseball, six extra losses. One extra loss a month could be the difference between the Dodgers playing in October and watching on TV. The difference between center stage and the alley out back. And, perhaps, the difference between the forgivable and the unforgivable.
Little will be back with the Dodgers in 2008, working under Colletti. But the clock is ticking for one if not both. In one respect, Little may have it easier: with the Dodger prospects a year older, some fully blossoming, there should be less uncertainty with the team’s daily lineup. However, fans will be expecting Little to put the team back in the playoffs — and until he proves that he will, to also change some of his ways.
The latter, at least, is something managers tend not to do. If there isn’t measurable improvement for the Dodgers next season — in an NL West that itself has been measurably improving — the Dodgers themselves might be fully prepared to do the easiest thing in baseball, before attempting the hardest. Little hasn’t lost the game in Los Angeles yet, but trouble is warming up in the bullpen.
Didn’t Vin say that Gonzo needs one more hit for 2,500? That could be why he is in the lineup. I don’t know what to say.
Thanks for the explanation, Josh. As always it is both enlightening and factual. I did find it telling that you mentioned Ned and Stan but not Grady in your post.
I still think Gonzo has plenty of gas in his tank, but that he should not be played now in order to give PT to the younger guys. He’s always seemed to me to be an upstanding, thoroughly professional guy, and I don’t understand why so many people on this blog (who don’t sit in the club house) are tagging him with the compainer’s horns. The only member of this team who ever had the “cancer” rep before was Jeff Kent, and that seemed to come from his relationship, or lack thereof, with Bonds.
Personally, I hope they’re both back next year in diminished roles providing, along with Wells, the veteran presence that leads to championships.
ugh more Gonzo. As my 3 year old would say, “He’s not my best friend.”.
Gonzo for 8 million a year gave us two things.
1. The numbers that Coletti expected.
2. The same numbers Ethier could have given us for 300k.
And Gonzo is not the only one like this.
Hey ebbets,
Gonzo is just not good enough to play in the field so maybe an AL DH stint next year? But is he better than most teams’ DH’s? He’s gone.
play delwyn young!!
ebbets
u want gonzo back next year?
gudluck! LOL
Last night and for the rest of this season I will be concentrating only on the team. I think our offense is getting better, although it is hard to tell right now. We have good veteran players, that I hope will be back next year(Proberbly not Gonzo). The yongsters are getting this year under their belts, and I hope they pay attention to some of the better offenses in baseball. My biggest concern right now is our bullpen which in my opinion is truly Major League but what happened last night in the eight inning is not good news to me. We have a superior set-up & closer routine if not the best in baseball. Let’s hope the majority of you are right and Big Jon is just tired and with a little rest he’ll be okay. Let’s hope the league doesn’t have his number and know just how to handle him. Saito made a mistake pitch to Helton the other night, the way I see it right now and we have nothing to worry about. The Dodgers might not have improved themselves as much as the DiamondBacks & Colorado(the Padres were good from the start), But I feel next year if our bull pen stays as strong as it has ever been & we have straightened out our starting pitching I know we will do a lot better and our pitchers will get a lot more help from our offense. WE HAVE ONLY JUST BEGUN.
Let’s start a petition on this blog right now, who wants Grady back in ’08?
Please respond with either: KEEP GRADY or FIRE GRADY and only vote once.
FIRE GRADY
Fire Grady…Hire Girardi (to develop the kids. The kids NEED it.)
actually charris it would make alot more sense if we say!
Fire NED!!!
van, I refer you to the words of John Weisman as posted above by jungar.
pierre
actually i think saito is tired too…
his fastballs the other night are on 88-92…
usually his fastballs are on 92-95!
i want grady fired too… but if Ned is the GM grady is the manager!
but ofcourse my vote is:
FIRE GRADY!!!
FIRE GRADY!
Update:
FIRE GRADY 4
KEEP GRADY 0
FIRE GRADY AND NED
FIRE GRADY: 5
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 1
FIRE NED
KEEP LOGAN
fire grady and ned for me.
update:
fire grad: 6
keep grady: 0
Fire ned 2
Hire Logan: 2
Let’s keep this going.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 5
KEEP GRADY:0
FIRE NED: 3
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 2
C’mon people get involved here, even if you want Grady or Ned back, I just want to see some results.
FIRE GRADY
opps sorry for the second vote, don’t count it
My girlfriend votes for fire ned and grady. Keep Logan. Update:
Fire Grady: 7
Keep Grady: 0
Fire Ned: 4
Keep Ned: 0
hire Logan: 4
C’mon guys, let’s keep it going.
FIRE NED
KEEP LOGAN
Fire Grady
Fire Ned
Make Kim GM
Logan her right hand
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 5
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 4
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 2
Hire Girardi
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 6
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 5
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 2
HIRE KIM: 1
Fire Grady
Keep Ned
Hire a manager with a long-time Dodger background
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 6
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 5
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 2
HIRE KIM: 1
HIRE GIRARDI: 1
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 7
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 5
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 2
HIRE KIM: 1
HIRE GIRARDI: 1
i said i was done with this blog for the rest of the year but i had it post of this…
Fire Grady
Fire Ned
Hire White
Promote Kim
Hire anyone thats not Grady
Yo charris, add me to Hire Girardi too. Thanks I already voted to fire Ned and keep Logan.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 8
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 6
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 3
HIRE KIM: 2
HIRE GIRARDI: 1
Thanks max
Fire Grady!
Fire NED!
Fire the BATBOY!!!LOL
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 8
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 6
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 3
HIRE KIM: 2
HIRE GIRARDI: 2
im voting twice…cuz i can
Fire Grady
Fire Ned
Hire White
Promote Kim
Hire anyone thats not Grady
FIRE GRADY.
AND NED TOO.
My vote goes the way bluebleeder is thinking….
Fire Grady
Fire Ned
Make Kim GM
Logan her right hand
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 8
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 7
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 3
HIRE KIM: 2
HIRE GIRARDI: 2
van only vote once
Guys — Firing people is nice, but you need to have a solution. If I may, please add one vote each for hiring a GM and coach. One vote please, like Charis said.
Reason? You can get rid of the problem but you better have a solution.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 11
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 10
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 4
HIRE KIM: 4
HIRE GIRARDI: 2
FIRE GRADY: 8
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 7
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 3
HIRE KIM: 2
HIRE GIRARDI: 2
FIRE BATBOY: 1
anyone who wants the BatBoy gone u can write ur Vote too… LOL
sorry just messing around!
I can’t believe there are only 4 votes for Logan. I know there are more than that.
FIRE HONEYCUTT
FIRE DONNELLY
JB is without a doubt tired. Me and my dad were talking about it about 3 weeks ago. I don’t think it’s the innings pitched or the games pitched I think it has to do with how man times he was used in a row on over a short span. You can’t pitch any pitcher 4-5 days in a row or like 10-14 games much less a young guy with last year being his first full season. I think Grady used him way to often. He’s pitched in over 1/2 the games we’ve played.
My opinion on the coaching staff is let Logan take over the team. He’ll put a winner out there for us and I already said let Kenny Howell be the pitching coach. He developes the young pitchers we have and he’s soon going to leave for a major league job as is Logan. The owners better do whatever it takes to keep them both.
somebody else please keep the running count going, I’m off to lunch, I suggest that as you vote (your one time) that you copy and paste in the previous update and plug your #s in. BTW my last update is the most current not van’s.
FIRE GRADY
HIRE GIRARDI
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 12
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 10
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 4
HIRE KIM: 4
HIRE GIRARDI: 2
FIRE HONEYCUTT 1
FIRE DONNELLY 1
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 12
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 10
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 4
HIRE KIM: 4
HIRE GIRARDI: 3
FIRE HONEYCUTT 1
FIRE DONNELLY 1
Fire Grady and Ned. Hire Logan and let him put together a coaching staff.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 13
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 11
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 5
HIRE KIM: 4
HIRE GIRARDI: 3
FIRE HONEYCUTT 2
FIRE DONNELLY 2
HIRE LOGAN
HIRE GIBSON
FIRE HONEYCUTT
FIRE DONNELLY
Fire Ned and Grady. Hire Logan and whoever he wants
Interesting to here about how CO went out and got these 6 foot tall guys and how it works in CO. Here’s something to think about.
Not that I’m in any way close to a ballplayer, but when I was in better shape and younger (20-21), I went to CO as part of a tour (not to deviate, but I was in an activity that required lots of marching and music playing — drum & bugle corps). For the first 2 days there, it was very hard on our bodies. Just marching alone required lots amount of air, not to mention adding playing on top of that, where you needed to expand and put the right amount of air into your brass instrument. However, after a few days, your body adjusted.
In short, when we came back down to sea level, we were Supermen. Loudest MFers on the planet and energy up the wazoo.
I’m 6’1″ and I’m wondering if there’s a correlation to that?
FIRE CONTE, the worthless Giant SOB.
Ned better watch who he hitches his wagon to. My vote:
Have Grady “resign,” spend more time with the family, you understand. Honeycutt, too. He needs to spend more time with the family.
Ned could resign too “to pursue other interests”.
I would recommend he apply as Boras assistant.
Not too many keep Gradys so far…
I see lots of fly ball in teh 1st inning from CO.
Lowe not looking to good.
Why are we sitting our Ferrari ( Kemp ) and playing our Nova ( Gonzo ) !! Gonzo needs to sit the eff down he did not cut it this year.
When was the last time a season-ending series between the Dodgers and Giants had no meaning for EITHER team? Just pondering while I watch Lowe struggle.
Sitting our second best hitter? I guess that falls on Grady’s shoulders.
FIRE GRITTLE !!
Sit down Atkins!!
thanks for the response Josh, and your detailed posting explaining your point of view. Past experience shows that it probably isn’t “good enough” for some of the negative nancy’s around here, but from my perspective, I certainly do appreciate the work you do. It’s taken for granted sometimes by many, but this truly is one of the best MLB blogs out there, if not the best, and i just feel that people who criticize you personally and your loyalty to this team is underserving, and uncalled for.
Thanks again Josh.
nice job by Lowe to get out of that first inning.
undeserving*
FIRE GRADY: 13
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 12
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 6
HIRE KIM: 5
HIRE GIRARDI: 4
FIRE HONEYCUTT 3
FIRE DONNELLY 3
Release Gonzo 1
Lowe nutted up and went after them instead of pitching defensively. Believe in your stuff, man!! Nice work!
If I was Ned…
1. I would’ve never signed Gonzo.
2. I’d release now and not let him finish the season as a Dodger. He was suppose to be a vet the young guys could look up to. Unless you want your players being babies about everything then I’d prove a point to Gonzo and let his *** go now.
haha…
fire grady
fire ned
re-hire/promote white
sign arod
play kemp everyday
I just read that the Astros are going to sign Ed Wade as their GM. Thank God they passed on Logan.
Josh, if you have inside info that you fell would help Dodger fans to “understand” what Ned and Grady’s decisions are based on, why don’t you share it? All we are left with is what we see at the games, on TV, or read in the paper. We can draw our own conclusions based upon what we see. If you feel like there is other info to help us make fair judgements of this organization, why don’t you share it?
yes!!! to that astros post
Find Ross Porter…
Fire Charley Steiner
Hire me as the bat boy.
Try and squeeze, Lowe.
Josh, one more thing: Why do you criticize Bob Harvey for not going to games while you don’t go to them either?
JaxKat — Bring back Ross? Oh God, NO!!! I’ll try and repost what I said yesterday about Ross.
Wonderful post Jungar. you really crystalized the season with that piece . Thanks for that.
Orth. I read that. Jack
FIRE GRADY
FIRE NED
PROMOTE WHITE
FIRE ALL THE COACHES
FIRE the ball boy that got hit in the face.
FIRE anyone that likes grady.
Would it be too much to ask for the
Dodgers to win on my birthday today? ****
Fire Grady as manager…Re-hire as a beer guy
Fire Ned…Re-hire Ned as a Parking Lot attendant
well **** this game is over pretty quick.
Sure wish we had a team that could hit.
FRANK McCOURT, IF YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR TALENTED YOUNG PLAYERS, WHO ARE EITHER AT OR SOON TO BE ON THE BIG CLUB, ARE IN YOUR ORGANIZATION BECAUSE OF ALL THE HARD WORK PUT IN BY YOUR OWN LOGAN WHITE, THEN YOU SIMPLY DON’T DESERVE TO OWN THE DODGERS!
IS THAT THE KIND OF MESSAGE YOU WISH TO PRESENT TO YOUR SUBORDINATES? “FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK, WE’RE GOING OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION AND WILL HIRE SOMEONE WHO DID NOTHING TO DESERVE SUCH GREAT TALENT.”
IF EITHER LOGAN WHITE OR KIM NG ARE ALLOWED TO DEPART AND ARE SIGNED AWAY FROM YOUR ORGANIZATION, IT WILL BE ONE OF THE DARKEST DAYS IN LA DODGER HISTORY.
LOGAN WHITE IS YOUR ACE IN THE HOLE PARD…
.
FIRE NED!!
LOGAN WHITE FOR GM!!
.
FIRE GRADY!!
KIRK GIBSON or
KEVIN KENNEDY FOR MANAGER!!
WOW! That guy is such a beast.
ouchie, and a 3 run jack from Holliday. Good move pitching to him with 1b open.
If Matt Kemp played every single day, he’d have numbers like Matt Holliday.
Fire Grady as manager…Re-hire as a beer guy
Fire Ned…Re-hire Ned as a Parking Lot attendant
Posted by: jaxkat@yahoo.com | September 20, 2007 12:41 PM
I wouldn’t even buy a beer from him!
dang Lowe just lobbed that one right over the middle of the plate at the belt. Oh such a good pitcher.
Holliday for MVP!!!
I want to know what you guys think about DY. He was drafted as a 2nd baseman. I think they need to move him back there and let Kent groom him for a year and then he can take over when Kent is gone. The kid can hit I just don’t think he’ll make in the bigs as an outfielder.
I’ll be glad when the Holiday show is over this year. Enough is enough.
get the hook.
Why Gonzo is in the **** line up anymore is just a complete joke. Absolute complete f’ing joke. That just shows Grady is all about the numbers and doesn’t care about the young guys one bit. So what if Gonzo is one freaking hit away from whatever. He’s not a Dodger after this season, and this season is over. Perhaps not mathematically eliminated, but it’s OVER.
Unfortunately our potential answer to Holliday is sitting on the bench so that Gonzo can play.
FIRE GRADY, FIRE COLLETTI!!!
I smell a sweep…….
can I get an update on our votes…
First time every the Dodgers have been swept 4 games at Coors. That tells you quite a bit about this club. 7 out of 9 losses in Colorado is a disgrace for what is supposed to be a premier baseball organization.
Frank, you’ve done a horrible job as a baseball owner. Spend all the money you want on improvements, blah blah blah. Since you bought the club, my season tickets have doubled in price (yes doubled) and parking has also doubled.
That has bought one division title (albeit from previous management), one tied WC, a sub .500 season, and what might as well be a sub .500 season this year.
6-0?
any chance? LOL
Jeeeeeez! When it rains, it pours!!!
I think we have more spite for Grady because we see him everyday… If we saw Ned Flanders and his stache everyday I’m sure we’d all be even more angry at him for assembling this rag-tag bunch of misfits.
I hope the fans give Grady an “appropriate reception” when the team returns to Dodger Stadium. The fans have been too kind to him.
I guess Little’s resting the bull pen lol, lol.
This team has QUIT on their manager. That is unaccepatable!!!!!!!!!!
it is still early!!!
but it is 6-0
just put gonzo ,JP and Kent on the bench…
put Hu at Short, Abreu 2nd, LF Ethier, Kemp CF, Young RF!
I can’t blame Frank as much as I blame Ned. He’s put the money out there for players, the GM just hasn’t gotten the right players. When we needed a power bat, we gave Pierre 5 years 45 million. Mindless. That’s just spending money for the sake of spending it.
One player I left of my “wish they had traded high” list was Derek Lowe. He’s another pitcher that falls apart when something goes wrong in the game. I just think he’d be better off somewhere else.
Both Penny and Lowe are mentally small for pitchers. They’re brilliant until something goes wrong, then they just melt down into complete implosion. It’s almost as if they start sulking and then they just say f’ it.
I said last week that Colorado would be the end of our run…I knew this would happen..was hoping we could win one, but knew Lowe hates pitching there…Lots of good teams have been swept there…not a surprise that we are going to be….just puts the boys out of their misery a bit earlier…We really had no chance even if we won today…so..on to next year…and I’m sorry to say I bet we have Grady and Ned back…so don’t expect great things…If you want to see a well run organization, you need only drive down the freeway a bit to the Angels..they are perenially winners..like the Dodgers were supposed to be, but haven’t been in YEARS…Figure it out MCCourt..you have the WRONG people running the show.!
Blondecaboy — As a colleague as mine said and Vin seemed to hit on, CO is going to be a very formidible team. Young and strong.
I’d rather see the Rockies in the play offs than the **** Padres. The Rockies are actually a better team than the Padres, I just think the Padres have just been more fortunate with schedule and some last minute heroics all season.
yeah!
i think the dodgers fans who will attend the game at the last homestand needs to bood the organization!!!
i hope im there but i can’t!
if im there i’ll boo them pretty bad!!!
Nice AB from Abreu!
PATHETIC!!!
Grady why just you just let the kids have some fun? I can’t stand this, see you in February! I’m outa here.
boo*
I have a question…Last night Vinny said that Colorado drafts big strong guys to play at Coors Field because it’s so big, etc…Why wouldn’t everybody draft big strong guys, Coors or no Coors?…Who wouldn’t want big strong sluggers??.am I missing something?
Fire Frickin’ Grady Little. Until next year fellas.
One player I left of my “wish they had traded high” list was Derek Lowe. He’s another pitcher that falls apart when something goes wrong in the game. I just think he’d be better off somewhere else.
Both Penny and Lowe are mentally small for pitchers. They’re brilliant until something goes wrong, then they just melt down into complete implosion. It’s almost as if they start sulking and then they just say f’ it.
Posted by: blondecaboy69@yahoo.com | September 20, 2007 12:54 PM
Let me just ask you, who and how would you replace our to top pitchers?
i just hope the lakers will give the L.A fans a season to enjoy!!!
two*
Yes, drp, you’re missing something.
You see, guys with wisdom we can’t even comprehend like Grady Little realize that scrawny washed up old vets like Gonzo are far superior to big young 5 tool players like Matt Kemp. It’s just something he understands and we don’t.
You said you wanted to trade Penny and Lowe because of the shortage of MLB pitching? well then you’d have 2 more empty rotation spots to fill, and the market will still be shallow on pitching talent. I don’t know where you’re coming from wanting to trade out best pitchers.
The problem with Penny and Lowe is that everybody wants them to be the ace when in reality there both #2’s. We need a Santana or a Halladay along with a big bat although I think Kemp will be the big bat we need next year.
orth, I was a bit concerned about them since they’ve held on to their youth, and allowed them to play. The Dodgers haven’t done that, and they’ve signed second time around veterans.
If you’re going to be a big money team, you sign the guy going into his prime for the big money. An aging Gonzo, an aging hurt Schmidt, a weak armed low OBP Pierre (who isn’t the greatest problem but an example of money being thrown around).
Furcal was actually the right time frame of a player to sign. He’s been hit and miss for the club, and I blame ******* Repko for being a complete idiot in a ST game for hurting Furcal, and then I blame Furcal for rushing himself back and trying to play through the pain and injury, which then leads me to poor management allowing him to do this.
I’ll always love the Dodgers. I will NEVER ever follow another team. I could hardly even get my 5 year old to agree to playing for a t-ball team that wasn’t named the Dodgers. I finally got him to agree to play for the Marlins.
I post with passion about this team, and my philosophy is that if they don’t buy the premier players in their prime or approaching their prime, then don’t waste your money on a bunch of twilight players like Gonzo. Give your young guys a flier, otherwise, we’re going to sit on years and years of disappointment.
There are things to be excited about with this club. I don’t just love a player because they are on the Dodgers. Some of them aren’t Dodgers, but hired guns on their way to the end of their careers.
The team does not seem to play with a sense of cohesion and with a sense of urgency, and I have to wonder where this lack of fire comes from. I know winning helps to fix this problem, but there are also guys who step up when the team is losing and help turn it around. Team leaders.
The Dodgers need to make sure that the dbacks are not going into playoffs!!!
lets help the padres at the division and the Phillies at the WC!!!
I don’t think them both being #2 guys in the rotation is a problem. They are good pitchers! you want good pitchers in your rotation. I agree, we could use a top flight #1 starter, but how many of those are there and how expensive in terms of money or talent would they be to acquire? We may have a top #1 in our farm system: Clayton Kershaw. I also think Bills has the ability to be a 1A starter, just below the top level.
Like many of you are saying here, as much as it pains me to write this, but the Dodgers now need to “solify” their 4th place finish. There’s no way to be in last place it appears, although they should try and get close to that.
The reason for this line of thinking is for that one meeting Coletti and Grady will have with McCourt to discuss what went wrong. As some have said, injuries will be the first reason, but McCourt will ask Ned what he and Grady did about it. Ned rightfully will say he went out and got what was available (say, Wells and Loaiza for the piching). I don’t think Ned has done a bad job in this regard and, during this meeting, not much time will be spent at what the GM did. Most of the time will be spent by Grady trying to defend himslef as to what he did with what he had.
This is where all the things we’ve criticized him will come out. If the meeting gets heated, it’s each man for himself, and I think Grady will be on extremely thin ice by the end of that meeting.
Comments?
van 19
That’s tooo funny about the Lakers..Are you kidding? Have you seen their roster this year..What upgrades??!!..looks like a long year of unhappiness for my boy Kobe this year..and for Laker fans…Management there is way out of their league these days too…Ever since Jerry West left…BOO
Either Grady has tremendous confidence or he is not playing to win.
I share the view that you should only spend money on top MLB stars like Beltran, AROD, etc. Spending on mid-level players is wasting money unless you have all your other bases covered.
I love teams that quit down the stretch.
scott
I wasn’t talking about Grady for a change..I mean the Dodger organization…except for Loney and Kemp…why don’t we have more big studs like Colorado?…I’ve always said their lineup to me is the best in the NL WEST..and maybe elsewhere…Why can’t we get more guys like Colorado..?..Why do they have so many and we don’t?…
Gonzo go to reapply some bengay?
I didn’t say both, I said that they could have been sold high.
You’re right though, let’s continue to run a .500 Lowe out there every 5 days. He had a very high perceived value at the mid way point. I’d bet that the Yankees would have parted with Ian Kennedy at the deadline. They were in a somewhat desperate state at that point in the season.
As the Padres have shown with their Chris Young pick ups, there is talent to be had through trades to teams that can be ******** into an Adam Eaton.
I’m just not sure that we have the GM is that’s capable of evaluating the talent that is available and how to leverage the value the Dodgers have.
drpdedblnd
actually there is no improvement!
but i guess if they can play with their hearts i think they have a chance at least to go into the playoffs!!!
The #1 problem of the Lakers is Smush Parker!!!
it all starts with ur point Guard!!!
Now he is gone i think they are a much better team!!!
Blondecaboy — Nice post. I’m with you on love of the team. There are times I look at the Angels and say, I wish they were the Dodgers. The thing I see there is that the players WANT to play for their manager and Scoscia sets that tone. He’s old school.
van 19
but the other teams have all gotten better…we haven’t…and Miami must have seen something in Smush..they signed him..and Pat Riley is not stupid..but he will probably fit better there.
Why can’t we just give the Rockies the game so we don’t have to be embarrassed anymore??
Grady! it’s all over!!!
play the KIDS!!!
what the **** with the veterans? they didn’t help the team a bit down the stretch!!!
it’s all the Kids who made the dodgers a contender last week but then u played all ur veterans and it all fell apart again!!!
Ned can’t point out injuries when it comes to offense. This is very close to the offense that Ned put together to start this season. In fact, you could say that the injury to Nomar helped to improve the offense.
Yes, the pitching has truly faltered down the stretch, but I’d say that many of the pitchers have to feel somewhat dejected at this point in the season as it seems that even when they pitch a good game, they lose or get a ND because of poor offense.
Some guys stay pretty bullet proof (Bills), where as Lowe and Penny just seem to melt down.
drpdedblnd
yeah agree with u every team has gotten better!
but i’ll stick with the Lakers! They have alot of talent but for some reason can’t use it when they needed too…
Next years lineup…
Furcal
Martin
Loney
Kemp
Either
Kent
LaRoach
Pierre
Bench…
Young
Hu
Abreau
?
?
With that kind of line-up I think we need to try and sign a Santana or a clear cut ace instead of a big bat. If all else fails and the offense is still struggling we have enough on the farm and a big leager or two that we can afford to lose to go and get a big bat.
He’s not capable of finding that type of talent. DePo is. DePo is in SD by the way, in case u didn’t know.
Don’t give me that .500 win percentage as an indication of how good he is… you know he didn’t get any run support all year. Bring better points to an argument will ya.
Drpdedbind — i think the reason why we don’t have the studs is we focus on pitching and not offense. CO is 2nd in the NL in scored runs, and middle of the pack for runs against. LA is just reversed — 2nd in runs against, and middle of the pack in runs scored.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 18
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 16
KEEP NED: 0
HIRE LOGAN: 9
HIRE KIM: 5
HIRE GIRARDI: 4
C’mon guys lets keep this going and send a message to management, if you haven’t voted, please vote (only once) and don’t be afraid to make your voice heard even if you want Grady or Ned back.
where do we vote charris?
Hello Mr. Little Long time no see.
Blondecaboy — The comment you made about the offense could be said for the past decade of this team — great pitching but no offensive support. It’s obvious. It looks like the kids we got should solve that.
drp,
Maybe the great Billy Ashley scared the Dodgers away from big studs…
Joel Guzman was supposed to be a big stud, but if he turns out to be now it’ll be in TB ’cause Ned wanted that big huge muscle man Lugo.
dodgerdude…
I agree that the Pads do much more with alot less money…They traded Linebrink and got back a much better pitcher that no one had heard of…they know what they’re doing…and sorry to say ..DePo is probably better than Ned…weird…I just know this team should have made vacation plans last night…LOL
drp, just copy and paste the previous update and plug your #s in where they apply.
For those talking about going out and getting top pitchers, etc., that’s short-term thinking and signing guys ALMOST in their prime is a difficult taks for a scout.
orth, I absolute detest when the Dodgers sign anything ex Giant related. Kent has been the only exception and it took me time to accept him, but he’s a little different, in that he left the Giants hating them and Bonds, and then spent a decent amount of time in Houston.
You can’t name another ex Giant that has come to the Dodgers and positively impacted the club. There must be something mental to it, but I could tell you that if I played for a club, and was “taught” to despise and destroy another club, it would be near impossible for me to then play for that team.
Or it tells me the Dodger management isn’t good enough at instilling this destroy mentality into the players. I honestly don’t want to see these guys out there shaking hands with their opponents, or goofing off with them when they get on base.
Again, I love the Dodgers and I love baseball. My ideas are sometimes way off the edge, but it comes from passion. I probably still have some hold over on the LoDuca trade and a dislike of Penny who got hurt immediately on his arrival. I still hate DePodesta for trading away Dave Roberts and I’m so happy he won a ring that season.
Anyways, some of the guys on that team show a true killer attitude, where as others truly show that it’s a job. I’ve had some fun watching the Rockies. Those guys really show a killer attitude.
scott
I doubt this mgmt knows or remembers Billy Ashley..If other teams can get these studs, why don’t we have more???? I love Loney and Kemp, but we can’t go through another season with this stagnant low home run hitting club…speed is nice when you mix it with power.!!!
oh, here’s ol’ Eric Stults again. I thought maybe he had died or something the way Grady had “no choice” but to start Loaiza…I saw Stults shut down the Rox on 2 hits and 9 K’s and then he got one more start. But Tomko and Hendy got, what, 30 starts?
I’m glad to see Tomko gave up the lead.
blondeca..
maybe the Rockies show a killer attitude because they have a manager who is like they are…I heard him speak after the game last night and couldn’t believe you can have a manager that speaks in English without stupid little gimmick sayings..It was refreshing..Until we change the top of this organization, the Dodgers go nowhere..Sad, but true…and I keep reading about how Logan is being interviewed alot…That would put the final dagger into the team if he is gone..!
drp,
You’re preaching to the choir with me, I was just giving you some ideas why we don’t have any more of those guys. Ned and Grady like skinny old vets or fat old vets, but not strong healthy vets in their prime.
Yes, Lowe has been a victim of run support, but he’s also been a victim of games like today as well.
Like I said, some pitchers are more mentally tough than others. I’ve been very impressed by Bills composure. He doesn’t seem to let little things affect him much.
Hello guys.. running late today, but here’s my vote: Fire Grady, keep Ned, sign Arod, trade Pierre. Oh, and by the way, after today only 9 more games of Gonzo in the line up.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 19
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 16
KEEP NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 9
HIRE KIM: 5
HIRE GIRARDI: 4
Blondecaboy — I’m not sure about the Giant comment, but I think I could go and work for the Giants.
Before you knock me a cold one, think about it. Do you put your love of the team above your reputation to do your job? You hear of guys like Wells (who grew up in SD) saying things like, “It’s good to show them that they made a mistake releasing me” when he pitched his *** of against them. Players do that all the time — growing up fans of one team and playing for their rival.
Yeah, it would be hard for me to work for the Giants, but I’d be working to try and work for the Dodgers. Imagine going to work for the Giants, turning them around with the payroll and aging guys they got. You don’t think going to a place like the Dodgers would catch someon’e eye to say, “Look at what you did with a limited payroll, etc”. Think Billy Beane.
Also, Lowe will be above 5.0 ERA post AS. He’s probably hurt, but it just seems as though he pitches a gem one game, and then gets slaughtered the very next, and there you have a .500 pitcher.
scott
What I was talking about is on the farm I think…I know we have these great kids here now, but we don’t have anywhere near the young guns they do…obviously they draft them…and we draft pitchers..we need more good power guys…I mean their lineup makes ours look like a joke.!
nice pitching by stults!!!
A good inning for STULTS****** The catch by MARTIN was outstanding, anyone who ever played this game knows how difficult it was.
drp,
These guys on CO would look good on any team. They can rake!
Gosh how does SD get so lucky with guy like there.
3 hits for the dodgers so far!!!
all Kids!!!
Ethier, LaRoche,Abreu
drpdedbind — i think the thinking about drafting pitchers is to trade them for power. But trading for power is very fleeting. I don’t know who we traded Edwin Jackson for but it obviously didn’t bring us the power we need.
Again I say,
Why did we have to go out and grab Loaiza’s big contract when Stults had pitched well and was already here??????
FIRE NED
FIRE GRADY
(Already counted, but I feel better)
Quick question — can anyone tell me what the Mini-Plan Ticket deal is?
Hr nest year if they play nearly everyday… Give or take some…
Furcal 10-15
Martin 15-20
Loney 20-25
Kemp 25-35
Either 15-20
Kent 15-20
LaRoach 20-25
Pierre 0-0
120-160
Plus about 10-30 hrs frim the bench players.
We’ll be in the middle of the pack then. With a top 5 era we’ll be sitting pretty next year.
January 14, 2006: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers with Chuck Tiffany (minors) to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Danys Baez and Lance Carter.
orth, read your statement. Yes, you would go work for the Giants, but you’d be working towards working to get to the Dodgers.
There is a mentality on the field that just seems to be lost these days. It’s a ******* business now, and I understand that, but they can try to find guys that are going to put that mentality into their team.
But there have been many cross overs from the Giants to the Dodgers, and most just seem to be a bust.
If you can name someone in recent history other than Kent, that has come over from the Giants to the Dodgers and not ******, please let me know. I can’t think of anyone.
Come on we can gave Pierre 1 lousy homerun.
Hillenbrand is horrific
Wow Shea is alive but lined into a dp.
Cameron
that line up won’t get it done next year..We need more power..Don’t know how we get it, but we need it bad…sick of this singles hitting team…it’s fine for awhile, but I want some big Rockies power!!! lol..but true.
Can’t tell if Ethier made a baserunning mistake of if the Shea hit was a line drive that Ethier couldn’t avoid running on.
oh that’s a good use of the bullpen LOL.
Unbelievable! Hilly needs to stay riding the pine.
Grady has Cranial Rectal Inversion!!!
why did the Pirates take Morris off the Giants hands? Amazing that the Dodgers can’t pull off the same types of trades. Well they did last year with Betemit, but that didn’t last long.
Forget this game guys..forget the season..IT’S OVER..
Remember, the Yanks, Mets, and maybe the Pads have all been swept in Colorado..so it’s not a big surprise..just pathetic…even their less studlike hitters can hit…Matsui with 2-3 hits..silly…we look like a scrawny team up against a bully…
I hope the Dodgers get swept this weekend against the Dbacks. I just truly don’t want the Padres to have bragging rights to 3 straight division titles. I’m really pulling now for the Rockies to do the impossible, and have the Dodgers be the Padres spoiler.
drp
I’d be willing to bet that if that line-up plays 98% of the games next year we’ll be in the top 5 in runs scored. They may not hit their home run prime next year but they’ll hit a bunch of doubles and drive in alot of runs.
Ok, this is it.
We’re down 6-0 and Stults actually pitched really well last inning and we PH for him with Shea? Oh, and by the way the Rox pitcher is RH and Stults was hitting .364 so far this year.
OHHH, but it’s ok to let Loaiza bat with the bases loaded and down 4.
FIRE GRADY
FIRE NED
DAMMIT!
Stults shoulds have hit for himself there!
he can hit better than shea this days!!!
Blondecaboy — I don’t think we’ve given Schmidt a chance.
Also, if I can expand on your mentality thing for a second. Based on your “baseball is a business” statement, the game has changed to the point that a player doesn’t stay with one team anymore. If I can take your comment and ask it this way (and I hope you see my point)
What team will certain players pick to go into the Hall of Fame?
Guys like Bagwell and Biggio instantly call to mind the Astros, but, in time, those lines will blur and you’ll have to look at what the individual did, not what the individual ON A TEAM did.
So how to instill that mentality on a team was something DiMaggio, Mantle, Drysdale, Koufax didn’t have to think about. They did it for their team and were individually recognized for that.
Go figure..Hendy strikes out Holliday….those power pitchers are the ones that have the most problem with him I think….
FIRE GRADY!!
Fire Ned unless he fires Grady!!
Next Year’s Lineup:
Furcal
Martin
Andruw Jones/Torii Hunter
Kemp
Kent
Loney
Ethier
Nomar/LaRoche/Abreu
Penny/Lowe/Bills/Schmidt/???
Now THAT is a World Series Lineup!! The 2 thru 7 Spots are competitive with any 2 thru 7 in the game. If Furcal returns to 2005 form, this lineup becomes truly elite.
It will be noticed that this lineup doe NOT include Pierre. I don’t see any reaon why we can’t unload Pierre to a team who could use him — Houston for instance which has nobody with any ability to steal bases — if we eat some of his contract and go after Jones, Hunter, or perhaps Aaron Rowand.
You know every team’s manager makes a dumb or costly move a couple times during the year, but have you ever seen a manager make DAILY questionable decisions like this?
Amazing. Of all pitchers, Lurch would strike him out. Go figure.
Maybe Hendy need to face Holliday more often.
I understand not staying with one team, but the point is, a player can still come to a team with a certain mentality. Baseball is so much more than just talent. It’s a very mental game, especially considering the length of a season.
Perhaps this sounds dark, but I want my Dodgers to have the desire to destroy, kill, mame the Giants and their players. Same goes for the Padres. I just don’t really see that, or get that feelings from some players.
Yes Schmidt could be another exception, but I have my doubts. Who knows, perhaps the injury came from a sub-conscious hatred of the Dodgers LOL.
blondeca
I think it would be better if we hardly win anymore after today…Maybe we have a better chance of something happening at the top if that happens..WE CAN ONLY HOPE!!
I know everyone is looking at these CO studs but young offensive guys like this can flame out. I’m sure everyone can name guys like Holliday that they want on their team.
Hey, the guy could turn out like Hollensworth or Mondesi and flame out.
CO picher has a better ROAD ERA than HOME ERA.
oh..and another day we make a so-so pitcher look like Cy Young…that’s what I mean about this team…
orth
who are you kidding about Holliday..this isn’t his first year..he’s been good for 2-3 years, but getting noticed this year…and he’s young..
MartinLoneyKemp — You are wasting money that way with letting Pierre go. What if Jones has the same year he’s having now or Torii flames out. Nope. Not gonna happen
I would love to see Hunter or Jones in Dodger Blue but I think Hunter will be wearing pinstripes in NY and Jones will either be back in ATL or in BOS.
The season is over…why isn’t the future (Kemp) playing?
DodgerDawgs.com
drpdedbind — I’m with you about rcing this team to the cellar.
I don’t think Hunter will be in New York…they like their center fielder and they don’t spend like they used to..got a good farm system now…
Even though it worked out with Hendrickson, Grady could have easily done a 2 for 1 and pulled out Gonzo. So he runs through his bullpen again.
It doesn’t really matter anymore for this season, but it shows a somewhat typical use of Grady’s bullpen.
With a 6 run lead Jimenez is soooo relaxed I don’t think he’s worried about making a mistake.
orth
just think how McCourt would feel if that happened?..maybe get his attention??! I hope..
I think the Yankees will trade Damon and move Cabrera back to left and pay Hunter. After all A-Rod’s big contract won’t be there anymore.
wow, another hit straight up the middle and directly to the CF and a runner advancing from 1st to 3rd without a throw.
drpdedbind — Holliday may be the MVP if he can get CO tot he playoffs.
It doesn’t matter season is over.
drpdedbind — Here’s my comment above about your McCourt comment. Would like your thoughts.
Like many of you are saying here, as much as it pains me to write this, but the Dodgers now need to “solify” their 4th place finish. There’s no way to be in last place it appears, although they should try and get close to that.
The reason for this line of thinking is for that one meeting Coletti and Grady will have with McCourt to discuss what went wrong. As some have said, injuries will be the first reason, but McCourt will ask Ned what he and Grady did about it. Ned rightfully will say he went out and got what was available (say, Wells and Loaiza for the piching). I don’t think Ned has done a bad job in this regard and, during this meeting, not much time will be spent at what the GM did. Most of the time will be spent by Grady trying to defend himslef as to what he did with what he had.
This is where all the things we’ve criticized him will come out. If the meeting gets heated, it’s each man for himself, and I think Grady will be on extremely thin ice by the end of that meeting.
I guess that was all Mark could handle.
Fire Grittle , Ned and the coaches, and Pierre. I’ve said back when they were in first place that management doesn’t have a clue and I’m sorry to say I was right. Also if you ever needed proof that this club quit on Grittle , all you have to do is look at this series.
Again, can someone explain how Sabean can unload Morris to the Pirates for what looks like a pretty good player, and the Dodgers had to release Tomko for nothing in return and hang on to Hendrickson.
If what Tomko is saying is true (now that he’s about to get his 2nd win as a Padres), then the Dodgers have some serious management problems. It could easily be sour grapes, but he doesn’t look like the Bombko of the Dodgers.
For those of you wondering whether Pierre’s arm leads to any runs, there you are.
orth
Agree about Holliday..if the Rockies can play well on the road, they have a shot…not likely, but a shot..
The Dodgers look like a beaten team…just a joke today…like they want to give up..!
Blondecaboy — What just happened with Helton advancing to 3rd is exactly the “con” on Pierre — he doesn’t “balance” out this “con” with a “pro” of his. And now Helton has scored.
Watching the game last night, I really couldn’t believe how bad his arm is. He throws these rainbows. I saw a hit close to the wall he retrieved and Kent literally almost halfway in the outfield to retrieve the relay.
blondeca
But why does Tomko pitch better in SD?…He is probably right about mgmt, but why is he pitching better?..or maybe getting more run support.?
From Keith Law’s ESPN WebChat:
Ty Bicks (Reno): How many games did Little cost the Dodgers by using Nomar, Pierre, Gonzo, Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez instead of Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Loney, LaRoche and Meloan every day from Opening Day on? Definitely cost us a playoff berth, right?
SportsNation Keith Law: Yes, I believe it did cost them a playoff berth. But you have to split the blame between Little and Ned Colletti. And I’d put more blame on the guy who actually signed Pierre and re-signed Nomar.
Blondecaboy — What did Tomko say?
manny
Thanks for that…Agree with Keith Law..
Oh…When will the Dodgers win their 80th gaaaame?
Manny3Vee — Wow. I’d agree with the Pierre signing to an extent but Ned had to hope Nomar returned to his old seslf after JD Drew bailed.
C’mon Gonzo, get your stupid 2500th hit so we can kiss you goodbye!
Bad management can effect a players performance. Even if Arod came here he might not be the same. How many times have the Ds brought in a player who was good elsewhere and tanked here ,only to leave and then do much better elsewhere?
GONZO breaks the shutout.
FIRE NED!!!!!!!
FIRE GRADY!!!!!!
HIRE SWOOD AS GM!!!!!!!
HIRE DAVE DUNCAN AS SKIPPER!!!!!
HIRE DIEHARD AS EQUIPMENT MANAGER!!!!!!
lol sorry diehard I had to
So much for a shutout. Small consolation.
At least we won’t be shutout.
I agree with orth, there was no way Ned could have predicted Nomar’s drop off, being basically health all season. After what Nomar did last year, and Drew bailing the way he did, I don’t think you can question Ned’s motive. The thought of Nomar hitting .290 and 20 HR and 85 – 90 RBI’s, with Furcal and Pierre in front of him, was not that far fetched. The Pierre signing was horrible, the Schmidt signing, risky, but at the time not bad, well maybe to much money, Gonzo was a mistake as was Tomko and not moving Hendrickson.
Depressing…Pads in the 6th inning and Tomko only gave up 3 runs….the Pads seem to make better choices than the Dodgers always…it’s amazing
And the Pads or DBacks win the West..other is wildcard..
sorry..Pads in the 7th now…Tomko probably much happier because they don’t boo him there…just figures…we give up on him and he has 2 wins.
Kiper
i think Ned knows that Nomar’s numbers will drop! or he will not stay healthy!
why? coz if i remember he is not suppose to sign Nomar… that means he doesn’t want Nomar anymore!!! he just signed Nomar coz Drew opt out! and he panicked!!!
Ethier shows some muscle!
Dodgers showing a pulse..
Ethier…way to go..
comeback??
I don’t think Nomar was healthy all season and he was playing hurt since the 2nd half of last year.
Kiper — I agree, but Ned has always said you have to take some risk. Remember, not just in baseball, but high risk will get you high rewards and vice versa. And most sprts people thought the Schmidt signing was a bargain, so Ned’s not to blame on that one.
Again, read my post which I’ll reprint below, and I’d like for all of you to add into the conversation that McCourt will have with Ned and Grady at the end of the year:
Niiiiiiiice Andre! Doesn’t look like he’s throwing in the towel like some of his teammates….
Tomko’s a bum. He only got booed because he was 2-11. He was never a good pitcher.
Maybe Tomko will do for the Pads what Weaver did for the Cards. Who knows?
back to back
how bout them kids!!
orth..
I think you’re wrong about Schmidt..That was a HUGE risk in my opinion…If you look back to the last 2-3 years for him, he hadn’t been that good..I remember when he used to pitch against the Dodgers I was happy because I thought he wasn’t that good anymore..and you have to wonder about his health..even then…lots of people thought that too…There was talk about him not being healthy..guess Ned didn’t know!!
LaRoche showing his power!!!
he said ” IN YOUR FACE GONZO”
drpdedblnd — Tomko still gives up runs though…and to the Pirates. He gave up runs to us when he pitch here his first time back to Dodger Stadium. Both LA and SD gave up on their poor pitchers and we each took them. I would say Wells has more ball$ than Tomko.
I didn’t think that ball would make it but I don’t care what the score is, wasn’t it nice to see E_I_T_H_E_R’s 13th HR. Also note how Hurdle knew when to take out Jimemez.*** NICE going A_N_D_Y.
Love that pickup of Ned’s..Sweeney….Guess Marlon Anderson wasn’t as good!!! another awful decision by this mgmt…!
LaRoache, finally! , Grittle probably won’t play him tommorrow. Not that it matters anymore.
Is about time LaRoche
Pierre, 0 for 4, I bet he doesn’t play tomorrow…Hahahaha!!!!!!
ALL RIGHT! LAROCHE!
KIDS RULE!
VETS $UCK!
Tomko basically came out and said the the Padres clubhouse was more like a family and that the Dodgers clubhouse was a bunch of individuals (I’m trying to find the quote as it was on their radio show).
He also indicated the Dodgers changed his pitching approach and had him take off velocity and work on movement (but considering he was getting his velocity jacked so often I can see their point).
http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070909&content_id=2198401&vkey=news_sd&fext=.jsp&c_id=sd
drpdedblnd — I’m sure with pitchers they do all these tests on them. But look at what happened when they scoped Wolf and Schmidt. With Wolf, there wan’t much damage, but when they scoped Schmidt, holy cow.
ESPN did a piece yesterday on the surgeon who repiars athletes. As good as MRIs and other tests are, you don’t know the extene of something until you go in (which is always the last think you want to do). i work in healthcare and I can tellyou from talking with sports surgeons, the last thing you want to do is surgery.
Tomko’s a fool. Don’t let one so-so outing fool you. He’s done that before. When they really need him he’ll tank.
Been a long time since MeLoan came into a game.
MeLoan has no control…
Pierreseastmeetswest — Just to challenge your assertion that Hurdle knew when to take him out, unfortunately, Jimenez is still tagged with 3 ER (which isn’t REALLY his fault since Herges couldn’t hold it)
orth..
The thing is no good GM would have taken Schmidt…He hasn’t been good for a long time…health or no health..
schmidt had a 3.59 era last year for the giants pitching 213+ innings, with 180k’s.
The year before, he pitched 172 innings with a 4.40 era and 165k’s. The prior 2 years were his most dominant when he had a sub 2.34 era, and another year with a 3.20 era, all with over 200 innings pitched.
So, i wouldn’t call Schmidt’s season last year awful by any stretch. It was quite good in fact, and had SF not been as bad as they were, and have been, he would have had more wins.
In the offseason, some reporters were saying that the Schmidt signing was quite good, since it was only 3 years, as compared to the 5 year deals guys like Lilly and Meche got. Schmidt obviously got more money per year than those guys, but those guy’s havent been as good as Schmidt career wise.
All in all, i’ll be excited if Schmidt can give us a good year next year. Until then, i’ll withhold judgment on the signing since he has 2 years left on the deal he signed.
blondecaboy — Tomko may have done that but I don’t hear Wells saying that about the Dodgers (yet). But I’d have to say it deals with who has class and who doesn’t.
I remember Maddux making a comment like, “Here in SD, all the clubhouse needs is a fireplace” (commenting on how posh the SD clubhouse is)
You can’t put power pitchers out against the Rockies at Coors..does not work!!!
scott, I agree, but I think there is a hint of truth to some of Tomko’s statements. He can use it as an excuse for poor performance, and I’m sure he now is having his ego stroked by a new organization.
It’s not a fair assessment yet for Tomko, as he’s face the Pirates and Giants, but he ****** bad for us facing poor clubs as well, so he’s at least doing the job for the Padres.
But Lilly has been much better for the Cubs…in fact he has been their ace….Just never liked Schmidt since his glory years…
and Wells is doing the job for us with the good starts he’s given us as a Dodger. So i guess it’s an even trade if you want to call it that. I’ll take Wells over Tomko any day of the week.
orth, I agree. I think there are definitely sour grapes, but at the same time, there are some levels of truth that can be pulled out. It’s not like he’s the only player to make similar comments and even now with media reports hinting at the same thing.
I still hate that Maddux wasn’t retained, but I guess the money thing and dealing with Boras became an issue for Colletti.
You guys come up with some good stuff. like jungar said about Gonzo being paid 8 million to do the job that Ethier could do at 300k same goes for Loney and Nomar. It’s not even arguable.
Nomar at 20 million for 2 years! That’s 19 million more than necessary. When you consider that in his last 650 possible games he has played in 384 of them. We know that at least a third of those 384 he played hurt and battled injuries. Let alone his second half numbers last year being AWFUL.
And it’s so funny to hear something like Ned couldnt not have predicted this or that when thats his job.
Wolf had not throw 200 innings since 2003. You can’t cry “wolf” now
Schmidt, well common sense guys. Power pitcher, 34..declining velocity. Giants not even interested. Oh man who knew! Sabean. That’s who. For starters.
I don’t mind one risk, but not 2. That’t the fault. Not the signing, but the planning.
I am with keith Law. My take is simple. Hear me out…
The dodgers since 88 have missed the playoffs 15 out of 19 years. In those 19 years we have had 4 rookie GM’s.
So maybe, just maybe the way to win is to hire someone who has built a championship team.
So I can’t defend McCourt anymore…hire someone who knows what he is doing. Instead of hiring GMs who are rookie GMs who don’t cost much, pony up.
well if you could have predicted that Lilly would have been the Cub’s Ace this year after he signed his deal, then good for you.
If you look at Lilly’s career, he hasn’t once pitched over 200 innings (until this year). His era has always been over 4.00 (until this year), but i attribute that to the fact that he was in the AL with the DH and all.
just the 2run HR that hurts!
pretty good!
LET’S GET GREEDY. *****That’s spelled correct).
someone in the Padres organization knows how to evaluate bullpen talent. I just looked up where they pulled Heath Bell and **** they raped the Mets on that deal.
To defend poor Meloan…he’s barely been used since his call up.
Heath bell is huge!!!!!!! The padres need a new conditioning coach if they think HEath bell can be a stallworth in their bullpen for years to come being in that shape.
let’s hope Meloan gets some more work. I think he’ll do just fine.
blondeca
Agree…the Pads know how to get good pitchers and players on the cheap…esp. pitchers…it’s amazing..and the Dodgers overpay for lesser pitching…it’s just Dodger GM’s that don’t get it!!
Blondecaboy — You’d have to think of a guy like Maddux not being retained was a good move. At $10mil, you never know if this is the year he breaks down. Maddux had like a 4.5 – 5.0 ERA going into that deal.
Maddux was a solid gain for them, but not the linchpin. It was guys like Peavy and Young.
Dodgers look defeated…Lowe HATES pitching in Colorado, so you had to figure this would happen
Blondecaboy — To finish my last post.
Peavy — what a mother that is. If Penny could just channel the energy he has the way Peavy does and doesn’t explode on others, Penny could easily be our Peavy. Turn the NN in Penny (NoNonsense) into the AV (Act Violent) of Peavy.
orth, I was torn on Maddux. I know it came down to the number of years, but ****, if they were going to shell out dough for Nomar and block 1b for Loney, they might as well have shelled out the dough for Maddux and let Nomar go. Nomar has been broken more than Maddux.
I think it came down to the fact that Colletti can’t deal with Boras.
orth, I’ve been trying to indicate basically the same thing about Penny. He has the talent, but he’s a mental midget on the mound. He falls apart so easily, it’s aggravating. You can almost predict that if someone boots a ball, that he’s going to implode within 5 pitches.
He’s done much better this season, but it’s so aggravating.
The season was lost 9in the offseason) but really lost with that double play ball that was booted by Furcal vs the Giants.
Stupid Gonzo. Now he’s going to play tomorrow to get that last stupid 2500th hit.
FIRE GRADY!
The Dodgers might get hot just in time to become Spoilers.
Blondecaboy — Although I don’t think ARod is coming to LA, Ned has to put aside the Boras hate for the good of the team. I’m sure a lot of GMs don’t like dealing with him, but Boras gets paid for getting guys like JD Drew contracts after they flame out.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 20
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 17
KEEP NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 9
HIRE KIM: 5
HIRE GIRARDI: 4
swood got his vote in, c’mon I know we have more than 20 bloggers here lets keep the voting going. Where is the support for Grady? I know that some people come here and support him, why haven’t they voted?
again, if anyone cares, I’m DGD.
dodgerdude???
Hire logan and Kim
Fire Grady
Fire Ned (if my #1 happens, otherwise keep him).
Girardi won’t come west, he has already said so.
I don’t know about managers, don’t we have someone inside that could do the job?
Rockies having batting practice against our pitchers..
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 21
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 18
KEEP NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 10
HIRE KIM: 6
HIRE GIRARDI: 4
charris
Where do we vote?
drp, you vote right here, just copy and paste the previous update and plug your numbers in.
well it should only be 1st and 2nd with 2 outs, but Pierre turns singles into doubles.
Nice job Meloan.
nice pitching by Meloan!!!
FIRE GRADY: 22
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 19
KEEP NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 11
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 5
How about Bobby Valentine LOL.
I got nothing importantant to do today COM’ON DODGERS LET’S PROLONG THE GAME LET IT DRAG>>
We really do have to keep this going, I think it’s hilarious that so far 100% of us want Grady gone and 95% of us want Ned gone. I know that their are some Grady and Ned supporters and I’m waiting for them to chip in and vote.
blondecaboy
DGD? what’s that?
is there a “i don’t care” option to vote?
oh from the ESPN board, Die_Gnats_Die = (DGD)
yeah absolutely casinod, but how can you not have an opinion about our management?
How about Kirk Gibson, Orel Hershiser, or anybody with some fire and knowledge?…maybe even Kevin Kennedy..(I know some don’t like him, but he has much more knowledge than grady)
ok, not that it matters, but why not Kemp to PH?
FIRE GRADY: 22
KEEP GRADY: 0
FIRE NED: 19
KEEP NED: 1
HIRE LOGAN: 11
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 5
HIRE MORGANNA THE KISSING BANDIT 1
casino…
i don’t really understand what u feel about the dodgers…
why can’t u hate the management?
They made stupid things over stupid things…
and they lied to all of the Dodgers Fans!!!
adevandry@yahoo.com:
Regarding our discussion yesterday about LaRoche being able to play second base, He was actually a SHORTSTOP until 2004.
So I think its safe to assume he can handle 2B if the Dodgers chose to move him there. Certain better than Olmedo would…lol.
yeah absolutely casinod, but how can you not have an opinion about our management?
Posted by: charris1010321@yahoo.com | September 20, 2007 02:58 PM
charris,
i used wrong wording. too bad we can’t edit. My choice of words of “i don’t care” were not to mean i don’t care. But mainly, when deciding who to fire/hire, my vote would be more along the lines of indifference. There are pro’s and con’s to both situations in my opinion.
Ned and Grady have done less than stellar jobs this year and if they get fired, i wouldn’t have any problem with it. On the flipside, if they keep their jobs, i look at it as cohesion in the front office/management, and sometime that can build in familiarity going forward. Ned hasn’t done the greatest job, but he’s only been on the job for a couple years. Same thign with Depo who was only given a couple of years. But in the Depo situation, it might have been a philopsophical difference with Mccourt and Depo, and as the owner, Frank Mccourt can fire anyone he doesn’t get along with.
If Mccourt get’s along fine with Ned and feels that we’re moving in the right direction and he can get the job done in the future, then the plus would be that we have some stability in the front office.
As for the Manager in Grady, like i said, if he gets fired, i wouldn’t shed a tear over it. If he stays on board, i wouldn’t leap for joy, but i wouldn’t go jump off a bridge either.
Mercifully over.
sigh, not that this was unexpected. Oh well.
Saenz looked great!!! NOT..as usual….
Just one of them are not going to go, if one of them go they’re both gone. Because Ned isn’t going to fire Grady, so McCourt would have to fire Ned which would also lead to Grady being fired. Realistically speaking, Grady and Ned will both be back. I have a big problem with a large turnover every two years. DePo/Tracy, Ned/Grady, so what happens if lets say Girardi/White do not get it done in 2009 after a solid 2008. Do they go as well?Anyway my vote is to let Grady go into 2008 without an extension and keep him on a short leash. I’m very high on Girardi and Logan White. So, if Grady and Ned were replaced by just those two, I would be ok with it. If it’s just for the sake of firing Grady and Ned, I am not behind it at all.
I noticed that all the Pinch Hitters today are all veterans!
just trying to point out!!!
Well they had an off day. BRING ON THE D-BACKS.
pierre..
LOL an off day…how about 4 off days!!!
orth — referring back to your comment at 1:52 p.m. (1:53?)
Trading Pierre and eating say $1-2 million of his contract would not be the waste of money. Signing him at $9 million per year was the waste. I’m just recommending that we cut our losses.
As to Andruw Jones, it seems much more likely that this year is an anomaly. Andruw will be just 31 years old next year. Frankly, I think that Andruw did whoever signs him this offseason a huge favor by having an off-year in his contract year. (Sort of a reverse Adrian Beltre)
But even this year’s stats — 26 HR, 92 RBI, with a .221 BA (but an OBP only 18 points lower than Pierre’s) and a solid job in CF — Andruw is still far more valuable than Pierre. And with the lone exception of ARod, Andruw is the best available hitter on the Free Agent Market this year.
IF…and it’s a big if…the players have quit on Grady, how can Ned say he’s coming back? I admit getting swept in Denver is NOT proof of any clubhouse division/rift or even of quitting…but holy moly…
casino…
i don’t really understand what u feel about the dodgers…
why can’t u hate the management?
They made stupid things over stupid things…
and they lied to all of the Dodgers Fans!!!
Posted by: van_19_cute@yahoo.com | September 20, 2007 03:01 PM
why can’t I hate management? What the ****?
Like i said, i don’t hate anything. Baseball is a game. If you hate something so much, go do something else and take up another hobby, something you have control of, that way you don’t have to hate it anymore.
You don’t own the Dodgers and every year there can only be 1 world series champion. You can’t win it every year. Thus, you’ll find yourself hating the Dodgers more often than not if that’s your approach.
You make it seems like I, or anyone else has to “hate” management. I’ve never said that the front office or the coaching staff are mistake free. I voice my displeasure at their mistakes when i need to. But i don’t need to go rehashing the same story over and over again just to get my point across. Some like to talk about the Betemit trade over and over again like it’s old news, along with other mistakes that might have been made. Does that make be a better blogger if i do that? Does that show that i “hate” management, and therefore am approved for posting here?
I’ve never said i’ve agreed with everything management does. Just because that is so, that doesn’t mean i need to hate anyone, or anything.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 22
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 19
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 11
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 5
Thanks Alex and interesting perspective casino, I can see your point.
kahlifornia
I’m just sick at looking at Grady’s little pouting face with pursed lips in the dugout…and never having an intelligent answer after a game…I can’t stand how he manages or talks about the game…
Fire Grady!!!
jj you already voted right?
http://www.dailynews.com/dodgers/ci_6942846
I want to be kind but…must reading for Grady ponderers…
Not today. Make that 23.
casino
i get ur point…
i just wish u’ll be more intense about it!!!
yeah it’s a game… but it’s a game with alot of emotions!
andruw jones will command double what pierre got as a free agent. That is why there are talks that he may just sign a 1 year deal with the Braves to re-establish his value after this less than stellar year. He is a Boras client afterall, and if that nets him more money in the long run, i’m sure he’ll do that.
As for him becomming a Dodger, i wouldn’t be against him playing CF. Of course, if he does sign for a lot of money, he’ll be held to a high standard and will need to perform. Otherwise, if he has another year like this year, there will be fans nitpicking at his performance as usual.
casino..
I’m just tired of how this team has been run for years and years and years..We are a franchise that should be competing year in and year out for a championship…but we can’t even get close..That has to do with management and a manager…20 years of frustration with the Dodgers, when the Angels seem to figure out how to win year in and year out without the huge power, except for Vlad…Why is the Dodger management so clueless year in and year out?
I’m tired of it…rooting for a team that starts out well and then falters..then maybe gets to a playoff where they can’t win a game..There is no excuse for this with a team that has resources to spend..
It can only be on management..the Pads seem to be good each year with much less to spend…Someone in mangagement get a clue!.
I think Phil Garner would even be better than Grady. Nobody’s even mentioned the idea of ‘old scrap iron’ to come in, an take the helm.
here’s the problem with keeping Grady next season. Free agents may not want to come play for him. Word spreads and image can be everything.
Right now, Grady’s image is quite low, and true or not, reports of a manager losing control of his club house looks bad on the outside.
There needs to be a clear plan in place if McCourt fires Ned and Grady. We cannot continue to go backwards. The winter meetings and the A-Rod situation will make or break Ned. If he can pull off a great deal that will help him tremendously and McCourt should definitely make it clear that his butt is on the line.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 23
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 19
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 11
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 5
Thanks jj
charris..
thanks for understanding my perspective. It’s not typical around here, because people are strong towards either way, fire or keep.
But to me, there are pro’s and con’s to both. If a new manager and GM is hired in the offseason, will he be as patient with the young guys? Will he want to play him at all, for a fear of them underperforming and him losing his job? I know Grady doesn’t play them much right now, but you’ve got to think that may change next year if he’s back. He know’s what they can offer on the field, what their tendancies are, and what their approach is.
A new manager/GM may not be as familiar with that, and there may be a transition period involved.
That is my concern with high turnover of coaching staffs and managers. Of course, these concerns may be unfounded, and a new manager may come in next year and lead us to the world series, and a new GM may win executive of the year next year. But like my concerns above, this would be just a guess of what the future holds. No one know’s for sure.
In reading the Times this morning, a fact jumped out that I hadn’t pondered…must be my myopia. Since the 1988 championship, the Dodgers have made the playoffs four times in 19 years. Is that possible??!!?!? Guess so. Twice in the 90s with Piazza, twice in the new millenium. What a disgrace to Dodger fans everywhere.
This club is in deep kimchee!
Fire Grady!
Fire Ned!
Promote Logan to GM!
Hire Girardi, Kennedy, or anyone but Dusty!
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 23
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 20
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 12
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 6
I just hope Ned gets us a power bat, that’s all I want this winter. we have the 2nd best pitching ERA in ALL THE NL all we need is that power bat to push us over the hump.
ps I’m not to fond of some of our coaching staff, buts that’s just me.
kahilfornia
What a great article..thanks..Can we send that to McCourt?..or do you think he read it>?
kahliforn, as a season ticket holder of 7 years now, I’m even more pissed off by season after season failure. The only saving grace on season tickets is the ticket exchange, where I’m sitting on $7k towards next seasons tickets.
Unforunately that loser Frank will likely jack up prices another 20% and have Ned sign some more bottom feeder free agents.
yeah, seriously we do NOT want Dusty. He’s an even bigger veteran homer than Grady. He HATES young players. And he’ll overwork every young arm we have.
van…
sorry, but i have news for you. On this blog, it’s kind of hard to show “emotion”. If you think that my lack of emotion is proven from my posts, then so be it. I don’t have to go out of my way to try to show what kind of fan I am when i’m trying to enjoy the game and the Dodgers.
People are different, and i don’t go around watching the game waiting for people to mess up, or players to have a miscue, so i can show my “hate” for them.
drpdeblind,
i agree. It is disheartening to not have a winner out there consistenly year after year. And that, is on managements shoulders for sure. But the problem i see is that we haven’t had the same management group in there for years at a time to truly build the team, and dynasty for years and years. We’ve had a couple GM’s in the past decade, and a new owner and new coaching staff. So, either we need to decide to go with who we have and let it play out, or we go out and get the people we want, and stick with them to see what can be built for years to come.
I think sticking with Ned is OK…no, make that I WANT TO BELIEVE sticking with Ned is OK. And I was OK with Grady. But not anymore. Sorry, Grady, but that’s how I feel after this season’s failure on many fronts.
I watched Garner screw up the Tigers big time. He had zero patience with their kids and it cost him his job.
I still say we need to get someone with long-time Dodger roots who can instill the old-time Dodger Spirit into this talented bunch of kids. I know a lot of people are calling for Giradi, and I respect the job he did in Miami, but I’d still favor someone from our organization.
Sorry charris. I logged on kind of late today, and didn’t go through all the posts. I was hoping they could salvage at least one win in this series, but I guess it wasn’t meant to be. This team is deflated, with no wind whatsoever left in their sails.
Getting swept by the Rocks is the worst birthday gift I’ve ever received.
Pathetic, and pitiful! Time to go drink to what could have been, and hoping Grady, and his lunchmeat coaches are gone next year. Time to get the Bushmills out of the cabinet.
jjriley
Happy Bday!
Go DODGERS!!!
Play the KIDS!!!
Thanks van! He says while toasting the Irish Whiskey to all the loyal Dodger fans…….
Who gave the pity point for keeping Grady?
Fire Grady Little!
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 24
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 20
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 12
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 6
atta boy jj, I’d line up a Jameson shot for you if I was around but anyhow Happy B-Day and cheers to ’08.
I hear you! Here’s to bigger, and better things for the Boys in Blue next year without Grady – I hope! says while sipping his Bushmills………
Looking on the bright side (Tempered though).
From the beginning of this year, I have looked at 2007 as equivalent to 1973 — the year before the Dodgers great run through the rest of the ’70s and into the ’80s. (Naturally I hoped for success this year, but realizing that we probably wouldn’t be ready for elite status until next year.)
I saw this as a year for Martin, Ethier, Broxton and Billingsley to solidify themselves. For Loney, Kemp and LaRoche to get experience/more experience and be ready to establish themselves as stars in 2008.
Generally, these goals have been met. My “tempered” portion is that Grady’s management has partially delayed the development of these young players, particularly in the cases of Loney, Ethier and especially Kemp.
Nevertheless, I feel that we are now in a position to start a run of playoff appearances that (if Grady doesn’t screw it up) should result in two to five World Series appearances and at least one World Championshiop over say the next 7 years.
If we keep Grittle I will jump off a bridge into the LA river
Save a spot for my diehardblue!
Save a spot for me diehardblue!
Just a thought on this season…
We had a lot of underacheiving veterans plugging up the youngsters’ progression this season. But wasn’t part of Coletti’s plan to hire veterans who give us a chance to win now while weaning the youngsters into the big leagues?
Aside from the “win now” part (because most of our veteran core did not produce, which is kind of a freak occurance), it seems this is how the season panned out. Maybe the management starting non-producing veterans every day ad-infinitum (as well as non-performing pinch-hitting veterans) has ended up shooting us in the foot, but would we have been much better off if we had started last year’s 51’s, Suns and Missions from day one? These aren’t the Sacramento RiverCats and Alberquerque Isotopes we’re playing, it’s the Big Show.
Fielding a team full of rooks works for Arizona, but for a big-market team like the Dodgers, it might not look so hot. After all, when Garvey, Cey, Russell and Lopes were coming up, didn’t they have well-established veterans “blocking” them for a few seasons? Our veterans are well established too, just didn’t pan out as we would have liked. And the veterans we’re all griping about this year won’t be a factor within two years, quite a few will be gone by the end of this season.
Plus, those guys who came up in the early 70’s didn’t get their rings ’til 1981 (Note to front office, Please don’t make us wait ’til 2017 for a championship). That doesn’t mean we can’t win next year, but it is a bit of perspective.
yeah… what martinloneykemp said, heh
Nevertheless, I feel that we are now in a position to start a run of playoff appearances that (if Grady doesn’t screw it up) should result in two to five World Series appearances and at least one World Championshiop over say the next 7 years.
Posted by: martinloneykemp@hotmail.com | September 20, 2007 03:44 PM
Man! You’re taking optimism to a whole new level! LOL
I want whatever you’re drinking! Maybe it’ll cure my chronic case of “Optical Rectumitis!” *****
Fire Grady Fire Ned , let the next GM hire the NEW manager
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 25
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 21
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 12
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 6
Thanks for participating joanrich
Just a couple more days until mathematical elimination.
Fire Grady!
Fire Ned!
Promote Logan!
Let Gonzo get his stupid hit, too bad the bum couldn’t get it today.
Looking forward to the lineup for the last week of 2007 and everyday in 2008:
Abreu 2b
Martin c
Loney 1b
Kemp cf
LaRoche 3b
Ethier rf
Young lf
Hu ss
I’m not sure the order is right, and I don’t know how far they will go in 2008. But I’m sure they will go far for 2009-2012.
Here is why there is probably going to be another LITTLE LEAGUE season in LA next year.
The McCourt’s do not care. As long as 4M people come to Dodger Stadium then they will never care about winning.
The current ownership is not about fielding a winner. They are about making money. Money is good, but from my impressions they care only about money and little about substance. Hence another LITTLE LEAGUE season.
Here is my theory. If the Dodgers are bringing Little back next season in an effort to promote stability, then they need to show everyone right now by extending his contract. I mean why not extend him if Colletti has such confidence in him? A failure to extend is an admission LITTLE LEAGUE is gone either soon or sometime next season. The argument that no chenges in an effort to keep from starting over again just does not make sense in this case. I agree with it but this is a case of stepping over dollars to pick-up pennies if something does not change.
Keeping LITTLE LEAGUE w/o an extension is basically saying the Dodgers feel that the manager does not influence the game at all. So no matter how bad he is, the fans will still come and spend $75-$100/head (on average that has to be close for everything spent during games) at the games to the tune of $300M-$400M revenue at the stadium alone next season. So why would McCourt care?
Little is far from an in-game image of stability. He is not someone players or fans can turn to when the moves matter. He is the Dell Harris of MLB baseball. He has never won ANYTHING in spite of the talent he has been given. I imagine that anyone from the stands could manage the team to the record they have now. It is those extra 15-20 games/yr that the manager matters.
Of course I really feel McCourt is a HUGE Moneyball guy, why hire the PUDster otherwise? So to him the manager is simply a monkey in a dress. And LITTLE LEAGUE makes a great monkey.
So I see no changes at all as long as fans keep coming to the games. One could argue that low attendence the last homestand might have an effect but I doubt it…
BTW, I certainly hope there is ZERO interest in LaRussa…he is as complicit in the whole steriods thing as the players. Heck his A’s teams were a big reason the stuff got so popular. And he KNEW IT…
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 26
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 22
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 13
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 6
flpducks, not a bad line-up although I want us to go out and get a stud in his prime. Thanks for contributing.
Fire GRADY
Fire NED
Hire Logan
Hire Girardi
So far 96% of ITD bloggers want Grady outta here. 92% want Ned gone and several people either want Logan or Kim as our GM.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 27
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 23
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 14
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 7
thanks jjj!
no prob. this is a brilliant idea because we can actually see how the vast majority want changes now. There’s no mixed messages here
Fire Grady
Hire Logan
Hire Gibson
If that doesn’t get us deep into the playoffs then I don’t know.
exactly, I just hope more people contribute.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 28
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 23
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 15
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 7
HIRE GIBSON: 3
I know two others called for Gibby earlier so thats why he’s at 3. Thanks blue fan!
someone should hack into dodgers.com and make this the official poll instead of the normal mindless questions they have up there haha
Steve Garvey started his Dodger career as a third baseman in the early 70’s, because we had Wes Parker at first base. We also had a guy by the name of Bill Buckner who also played first base and eventually moved to the outfield so Garvey could play first. In their first years playing together in the majors (1974), Garvey was 25, Lopes was 29, Russell was 25 and Cey was 26. All our kids are younger than that. Loney will be 24 in May, Laroche just turned 24, Kemp will turn just 23 on Sunday! The amazing Russell Martin will be turning 25 in February. Bills only 23! The point is 2007 was never the year, 2008 and beyond is where it all should start coming together. Not to mention somebody named Clayton Kershaw who will turn just 20 in March. Look at that talent and they’re all younger than when Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey were put together in 1974!
we definately have reason for optimism, but a competent front office is just as important as the young guys. I think a few key acquisitions this offseason could really bring us to the next level, and I don’t trust Ned to come through at all.
Good call Alex. Whats more exciting is that these guys have more upside then those great Dodgers of the past.
Fire Grady, Fire Ned , fire Pierre!!!!
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 29
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 24
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 15
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 7
HIRE GIBSON: 3
LOL I wish we could fire Pierre. Haven’t seen you around in awhile fliegel, thanks for the input.
I’ve been lurking in the bushes watching this disaster unfold. 🙂
For those who followed the team in the 70’s, do you really look back at 1972 and 73 fondly? Or do you remember the years of success (1974,77,78). When we look back years from now 2007 is going to look a lot like 1972 and 1973. The years that preceeded something special, years that were tough at the time but were necessary in order to serve a greater purpose. One that will be carried out for years to come. Remember this is not the end, this is merely the beginning.
I just had a buddy call me and say he wants Little fired. Does that count?
leftttt, have him log on and post it.
grumpy, I’ve said the same thing about Gump and his “winning” percentage. He has been put in charge of the Red Sox and Dodgers. Both teams with a ton of talent and resources. His winning percentage means nothing. Now if he had a winning percentage with a team like the Reds or Marlins, then maybe I’d see him as having some managerial talent.
Even though Ned hired Gump, you know **** well that Frank had a hand in the decision. Frank was rejected by the Red Sox in terms of ownership, and IMO he settled on the Dodgers. So what’s the next best thing? Buy up the ex Red Sox pieces and make the team the Red Sox. The problem with that thinking, is that Theo is much smarter than Ned or Frank, and there is a reason why is ex Red Sox pieces.
Even with Lowe, why wouldn’t the Red Sox resign him after winning the WS? Seriously, why wouldn’t they resign Lowe? I know he’s been the victim of poor run support with the Dodgers, but I think there is more to it. As I’ve said, Lowe and Penny are mentally soft. Penny may have beat the Yankees in the WS, but that’s not the same mentally tough Penny that is on the Dodgers.
Alex — But those 70s kids were coach by the stability of Lasorda and his crew.
There was nothing stable when Garvey, Cey and Russell were 23 years old. There is no doubt in my mind that when Matt Kemp is 24 years old he will be our everyday starting right fielder. Same with Loney.
I can’t believe it’s over….
anyone see Kent’s post game quotes? As if I wasn’t mad enough already!
http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/baseball/dodgers/
I agree Lowe is mentally soft, not sure about Penny. I honestly dont know how Lowe pitched well in the postseason.
alex41592@aol.com: The point is 2007 was never the year, 2008 and beyond is where it all should start coming together…Look at that talent and they’re all younger than when Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey were put together in 1974!
Nice analogy but the Dodgers went to the World Series in 1974 🙂
Hey, I’d like to see these guys stay together and go to 3 World Series in 5 years like that club did. However, the ’74 team had a legit power threat (Toy Cannon finished 3rd in homers) and the club had something else our current club lacks: dependable starting pitching with a HOF’er, another one who was close (Tommy John) and a couple other workhorses (Messersmith, Rau) and one heck of a bullpen (Cy Young winner Marshall, Brewer, Hough).
I’m not sure where the big power hitter is going to come from or the strong arms the club will need to rise up in the West next year without trading someone or two from the current club who has value. LaRoche, Ethier, Abreu, Young, and others are going to be fair game for other clubs to call on if the Dodgers are going to pull a deal or two.
Kent is probably right, but it’s really been the young guys that have been producing.
Im sorry but Kent is just plain wrong to basically call out the kids to the press. Why isn’t he calling out some of the veterans subpar seasons?
Something about Tommy…he took over the last week of ’76. And he won immediately in ’77. Of course there are little to no parallels to the teams of that era and today. Well, other then a bunch of young kids still waiting for that final thing to unify them into a real team. And then it was “Big Blue Dodger in the Sky” and “Ya gotta BELIEVE!!!”
I do not see Little as showing any ability to unite players. Actually I thought that Tracy was far better suited to that issue. Of course he has his short comings too. Still of the two I think Tracy wins with this team this year. Not everything but he does get them to the PS.
Blonde:
I have to agree. I was actually someone who thought LITTLE LEAGUE deserved a 2nd chance. And I was on his side until the last couple months, well, the whole 2nd half really. His overuse of Martin early that was clearly motived to make him an all-star (can you say PR motivated move?) was also just beyond understanding. He simply has floored me with his constant 180 from the proven and sensible in-game decisions.
I always thought a manager MUST take a chance, play a hunch, when the time is right. Lasorda did it with Gibson. But something LITTLE LEAGUE is missing is the ability to swallow hard and play the percentages of the moment over his apparently HUGE ego.
I also agree that McCourt went out and got the players he “knew”…I cannot say that DLowe was bad at all. He has done a great job. His body, especially his hip, has just worn to the nub. Kinda is starting to remind me of what Tommy John looked like the last few years he played.
As someone else said…it’s only baseball and I have more important things to be “upset” over. I just find yaking about our Dodgers FUN. Even if the Little Putz is back next season.
Well, it will be interesting to read what happens over the next month or so…if no move is made within the next 3-4 weeks then well, it’s set for next season. Everything will stand pat.
Actually, there WAS upheavel for the kid Dodgers of the early 70s. A guy named Alston “retired” after the 1976 season and was replaced by Tommy. Still, the kids went to the World Series in ’74, ’77, and ’78 before winning in ’81. So let’s not crown these new youngsters just yet. They have HUGE shoes to fill to equal the 70s kids.
Jeff Kent critizes the young guys….
“You could use all the fingers on your hand and point them all around,” Jeff Kent said. “There were curious things that happened. There were perplexing things that happened. There were unfortunate things that happened. There were things that donn’t happen. You can’t put your finger on it, but you can put your finger to it.”
According to Kent, one of the problems was the amount of young players on the team.
“Especially when you have a lot of them, it’s hard to influence a group of them. I don’t know why they don’t get it“ professionalism, how to manufacture runs, how to keep your emotions in it.”
“I’m angry and disappointed and perplexed and bitter.”
Has Kent been drinking lately ?
ok time for my vote……..
i think that there is no question that we should fire grady. early this year i tried to defent him on this blog and said there was a reason he was getting payed the big bucks and we wern’t. boy was i wrong. of course that was before he started penciling in the line up with a blindfold. As far as ned… i don’t have a huge problem with him. I am not that upset with the peirre signing. he had a good second half and if he had just lead off for the whole year he would have been more valuable…too much money and too many years? yes but if he is moved to left next year, and leads off then i am ok with him. i would sayif the only way to kee white is to fir ned then do it. otherwise…
fire grady.
any coach will be an upgrade.
Obviously the Dodgers have a fractured clubhouse, like we’ve all been hearing for a while now. But who in their right mind takes it to the press? Mr. McCourt, please send tissues and hankies…then blow it up!
so are we now mathematically out of the playoffs?
JSPELK — Lowe got a divorce and went through that whole Fox News hottie thing. Still has her, though.
I’m not sure if Kent is saying it’s a problem. He’s sounds like he’s venting. The problem quote was written by the blogger or press person.
In fairness to Kent, here’s some more:
“We’re in a bad spot right now. Elimination time is three games away. Soon, we’ll give up the ghost and it’s going to be painful. We’re close to the end of the season and close to the end of a career for me. I’m running out of time and a lot of kids don’t understand that. They haven’t been there.”
All his quotes are on Ken Gurnick’s lead story right on the Dodger web site where we all now reside…
We’re several years away from comparing this bunch of youngsters to the group that came up in the early ’70’s. Personally, I doubt this core of players will achieve the success of 30 yrs ago. Cey-Garvey-Lopes-Russell
-Buckner-
Ferguson-Yeager,etc, knew which way 3rd base was. I’m not sure this bunch does. Martin aside, I’ll take Kent’s word for it.
There was no choice but to bring the kids up, and this is how it turned out. Nobodies fault, that’s just how it turned out this year. All this whining about Colletti and Little is useless. I pretty much agreed with the preseason pick-ups, thought they were good, but…oh well!!!!!!!!!
This was just not a play-off caliber team and too bad. Nobdies fault. Colletti took his shot with what was available and this how it turned out.
I’ve been a life time Dodger fan, I was at the 81 world series when Ron Cey was hit in the head by the Goose. I can remember when Garvey, Lopes, Russlls and Cey came up
then there was Steve Yeager and Mike Soccia and even Steve Sax guys like Greg Brock and Mike Marshall. But this latest group of young talent is far better, if Loney, Kemp and Either play from the very start every day they would each easy have 20 to 30 homeruns there’s your power next year without having to trade. If you put Tony A. at second he has more speed and better defenece then Kent did, he may not have the power but I can over look that and if Andy can hit 270 or 280 for average then the furture is very good. Furcal I like he’s very talented and plays with a lot of heart, on Pierre if there was a way to trade him a would and go with Young in CF. If the Dodgers are going to commit to the youth movement in 2008 NOW is the time. Loney reminds of Chris Chambliss,Kemp of a young Ron Gant and Either of Fred Lynn, these guys can play and they deserve to be in the line-up everyday.
I’m not being sarcastic when I say this…but I’d like to know what Kent’s opinion of Grady is.
FIRE GRADY!!!!
FIRE NED!!!!
HIRE LOGAN!!!
HIRE KEVIN KENNEDY!!!!!
No more hiring ex-giants personnel. Player or management. I am tired of that ****.
Update:
FIRE GRADY: 31
KEEP GRADY: 1
FIRE NED: 25
KEEP NED: 2
HIRE LOGAN: 16
HIRE KIM: 7
HIRE GIRARDI: 7
HIRE GIBSON: 3
HIRE KENNEDY: 1
Sorry for the delayed updates, thanks for voting
Kent don’t blame the kids if the vets played up to their potential.the only kid would have been martin ,pitching and hitting the vets failed ..
DENVER — A season’s worth of frustration boiled over in the Dodgers’ clubhouse Thursday with veteran second baseman Jeff Kent lashing out at a team that two months ago had the best record in the National League yet now finds itself on the verge of elimination from the playoff race.
“I’m angry and disappointed and perplexed. Bitter,” Kent said after the Dodgers fell for the fifth straight time, losing 9-4 to the Colorado Rockies at Coors Field.
Kent refused to identify the targets of his ire by name, but he cast a wide net when assigning blame for the Dodgers’ long slide from postseason contention.
“You can use all your fingers on your hand and point around,” he said. “There’s many, many things that have happened that are perplexing. Many things that have happened that are curious. Many things that have happened that are unfortunate.
“And you can’t really put a finger on it. But you can point to it. Those things are disappointing. And frustrating as well.”
Asked if those curious and perplexing things included Manager Grady Little’s daily lineups and the coaching staff’s game strategy, Kent responded: “Everything.”
However, Kent — who has played in one World Series in a stellar 16-year career — made it clear that one major source of his displeasure is the Dodgers’ recent accent on youth. Although the team opened the season with seven players with fewer than two seasons of big-league experience, the expanded roster they played with Thursday included 17 such players — including five starters.
“I don’t know what it is, especially when you have a lot of [young players],” said Kent, whose double Thursday raised his average to .298 to go along with a team-high 20 home runs and 78 runs batted in. “It’s hard to influence a big group. We’ve got some good kids on the team. Don’t get me wrong, please don’t misinterpret my impressions. [But] it’s hard to translate experience.
“I don’t know why they don’t get it.”
Asked what they don’t get, Kent said: “A lot of things. Professionalism. How to manufacture a run. How to keep your emotions in it. There’s just a lot of things that go on with playing 162 games.
“But I think experience can help more than inexperience. And it’s hard to give a young kid experience.”
A team spokesman said club officials would have no response Thursday to Kent’s comments.
There has been an obvious and growing tension all season between the Dodgers’ veterans and youngsters. Publicly, at least, that discord had remained largely under control and Kent is the only one who has spoken out on the record.
But as the Dodgers’ postseason hopes began to fade, costing both the 39-year-old Kent and 40-year-old Luis Gonzalez what could be their final shot at a second World Series, the tension has bubbled to the surface.
According to KFWB radio, at least one unnamed veteran criticized Little’s decision to start rookie Andy LaRoche at third base in the first game of Tuesday’s doubleheader. La Roche struck out three times in the 3-1 loss but rebounded with his first big-league homer Thursday.
“We’re in a bad spot right now,” Kent said of the Dodgers, whose magic number for elimination from the division race fell to three with Thursday’s loss. “Pretty soon we’re going to give up the ghost and it’s going to be painful. It’s close to the end of the season. And a career for me too. I’m running out of time. A lot of kids in here, they don’t understand that.
“I’ve played a long time. I’ve played on some really good teams. I’ve been in the World Series once. So you hate to waste an opportunity, even if it’s one and even if it’s your first time. And it’s hard to get them to understand that because they’ve haven’t been there. So there lies some frustration.”
So much frustration, Kent said, there’s a chance he may retire after the season, leaving a $9-million option for 2008, which vested Thursday, unclaimed.
“If you can get in touch with me about November, I’ll let you know,” he said. “I’m still trying to go through emotions of the season right now to worry about the possibilities for next year.”
That story paints the picture a little better than the PE.com blog. He’s not so much knocking the kids as he is frustrated that time is running out and nobody can relate to that except for the vets. There’s no sense of urgency because the the kids have their whole careers ahead of them. Kent’s may be over next week. He’s just as frustrated as all of us. Kent may not get along with everyone, but he tells it like he sees it, no BS. He’s a fascinating individual.
i’ve been going to a couple of blog spots and keep getting the same quotes from Camille Johnston and Josh Rawitch that Bob Harvey wasnt a “knowledgable host” because he only went to one game. Well Grady was at EVERY game and he’s not very knowledgable. Camille, what’s your baseball experience? Did working for AL Gore’s campaign make you an expert on who is a capable broadcaster and who isnt? Or did you spin that stale, tired, quote about Bob because..well…because you realy dont know baseball or because Josh told you that Bob went to one game and that makes him an unacceptable host? Oh by the way, Camille and Josh, your season is OVER.
Where’s the 2008 Schedule ? lol
By the way KFWB is having Dodger talk at 8 tongight. I’m going to listen to hear Jeff kent’s comments about the rooks.
Fire Grady
Don’t re-sign Luis(hit into a double play or strike out in critical situations) Gonzalez
Keep Kent
PS section RS 23 rocks!
What’s the verdict on LaRoche?
Is he a keeper or trade bait?
LaRoche seems like a solid pro, but not a superstar. He could fall either way as trade bait or a keeper. It seems too early to tell. He already has a bulging disc in his back.
GO HOME TO TEXAS KENT!!! Like I posted earlier I’m sick of all these ex- giants!!! I can easily name fifteen 2nd baseman better than Kent’s 40 year old ***!!!!
I’m starting to think the young guys, especially the 2nd year guys didn’t appreciate the hazing. Let the young guys takeover the clubhouse with a true leader running the show.
Can anyone summarize what was said tonight on Dodger Thoughts?
Yes Kent has an attitude problem. He went to Edison of Huntington Beach and was kicked off the team as a senior.
thanks for posting the article Alex. I read and understood the article the way you did, and don’t think he’s pinning it down on 1 thing or 1 person that leads to his frustration. Like fans on here, the players get frustrated as well, an they’re human. Bottom line, Kent is frustrated at the way the season turned out, and not making the playoffs is not acceptable to him. That is a guy I want on my team, and Kent has always shown his leadership out on the field, as he said in his interviews prior.
Of course, most here will probably spin the article and certain quotes to fulfill their agenda, but nevertheless, it was a good read.
My opinion is this, I see where Kent is coming from. He’s old, he wants a ring badly, and he’s frustrated with the way things turned out. He’s upset thats there are so many kids (although not alot of them have been a factor) getting playing time and their inexperience has hurt this team. For all we know they COULD be really disrespectful to him and not take his advice, but I doubt it. But Kent has NEVER been a cluhbhouse leader. He’s a good player on the field but he’s not a rah rah guy. He leads by his play only. To come out a lay the season and the footstep of the kids for lack of “professionalism” and experience is wrong, imo. Would be nice if he called out some of the underperforming vets too while he’s venting (hello Nomar!). Haven’t they contributed to the failure this season too? Kent obviously does not want to be part of a youth movement (and Colletti did his very best to prevent us from having one). So… I see his point of view, I don’t think he should have said the things he did to the press.
yep, i agree with you jspelk. We don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse, but Kent’s use of the word “professionalism” is curious for sure. Are the “kids” he’s talking about getting big headed? Walking around like they’re already hall of famers? Are they taking their pre-game preparations for granted and just enjoying being in the majors? These are all open-ended questions that we as fans don’t really know.
The truth is, the vets have been around for a while, and although they havent been performing on the field like the kids, they still should have a say in what goes on behind closed doors, in the clubhouse.
I think Kent feel’s that if the kids were more experienced, combined with their superb talents, we would be in the hunt for the playoffs as we speak. I think the frustration is that they aren’t experienced enough, and although talented, we can’t get over that hump until they gain that experience. That is why next year is so important. The starters this year who are kids in Martin, Loney, Kemp and Ethier are seasoned major leaguers. As for the other guys, they need more seasoning.
Lastly, i will end with Kent’s own quote saying “We’ve got some good kids on the team. Don’t get me wrong, please don’t misinterpret my impressions. [But] it’s hard to translate experience.”
I interpet that quote as him saying that he isn’t pinning the Kids with the blame. Kent isn’t a guy who BS’s a lot, or minces words, and he will say what he wants to say. Thus, for him to go out of his way to put a disclaimer on his quotes is telling.
Now, of course, you can give him the Gonzo treatment, and spin it into a “i hate kent” campaign if you want, but i’m just expressing my opinion on Kent and this situation. Of course, he probably shouldn’t have said anything to the press, but that’s a whole different story.
Perhaps, in some way, we are defending Grady for having to balance the vet / kids dilemma? Vets go the coach and vent, so he puts them in. Vets eat it or front office says “Play the kids” so Grady does. Maybe that’s why the lineup always shuffle.
I understand where Kent is coming from but if he wants all vets, go to the Giants. They have LOTS of vets and experience and where are they? Last place.
The future is those kids. Maybe Kent is saying they are playing for the big money contract, then they’ll play to win. Remember, that’s what vets tend to do…..they’ve got all the money they need and it they haven’t won, they look for that winning team (Yankees, etc). If they have won already (ARod, Jeter, etc.), they look to create their legacy. Kent isn’t at the legacy stage; Barry probably is.
jspelk-i agree with you in most respects. i do believe, however, that the lack of respect thing has more meat to it. today’s youth just don’t listen to their elders in the way the elders did when they were young. kent alluded to it earlier in the year when he spoke about the things he had to do when he was a rookie and how none of that would occur today. also, since there are so many of the kids occupying the dugout, and because they have been doing so well, they form a much stronger group that I’m sure has delivered some clout with respect to grady and ned. kent and the other vets are powerless and if he or they expected little to do something about, he couldn’t or wouldn’t.
btw, fire Little. hire Hatcher or Gibson. fire ned if necessary to keep logan. fire kim.
i don’t see why kim gets so much support. she hasn’t done a thing other than work the numbers it seems. that’s hardly enough to qualify for a GM post.
This is where a Girardi-type person (manager or player) is important. Someone who’s been to the big dance and perhaps won it (i.e. Scoscia). If the kids are big-headed and not given any direction by a manager or player, then a problem could occur. This is something the front office needs to address….Is Grady the person to do this? Does he and his staff have the experience to guide these kids and advise them? Do the kids know this team is young and should try to stay together to win, hopefully knowing McCourt will open his checkbook and give them the contract they deserve. That’s why I say, at the first possible chance, offer these kids a 4 year, mid-to-high average MLB salary at their position right off the bat, as soon as they are elegible (i.e. Give Martin a 4-year, average salary of Pudge, etc. Give Kemp and Ethier a 4-year, average salary of Hunter, Jones, Griffey, etc.). May be unorthodox but here’s your chance to wrap them up early.
well regardless of what happens with management, i hope Kent returns. He’s been very good for us these past couple of years, and has gutted it out despite his injuries. He bounced back this year after a pretty bad year last year, so he deserves to go out on a winning note, and not this way. Hopefully he doesn’t retire. He’s one of my favorite guys to watch. Especially how he almost made Shawn Green cry when he got to 2nd and Kent gently reminded him about stealing signs. That was classic!
Khola — From what I hear, guys like Martin and Loney (I believe, maybe Houlton, or both) DID listen to their elders. Martin’s dad kept him graounded and didn’t let hime gloat when doing something great. Loney/Houlton himself said he was bitter he was sent back down to AAA but came back better players.
After listening to Jeff Kent on Dodger Talk…I feel the same way he does. Sad, very sad. His voice was wistful, full of “what-might-have-beens.” I want ownership to do one thing this winter: get it right! We’re all die hard fans or we wouldn’t be wasting our time on some internet blog. If Kent has any gas in the tank, I’d like him back.
Casino — Kent will have to sit down with Ned about his contract and discuss what the next year will bring. I’m sure Kent will give his opinion about what happened since he mentioned “everything” (including the shuffling lineup). I’m sure Kent knows the value of a consistent lineup and it’s something thathopefully Ned addresses with Grady.
yep, Kent is out there to win, and i’m sure he’s done his fair share of mentoring on this squad, and will continue to do so if he’s back next year. He’s frustrated plain and simple, and if he was out to throw someone under the bus, Kent would have in my mind. But he didn’t.
Also, one thing i noticed from this squad in today’s blowout game in Coors was the dugout after Laroche’s homerun. All of the guys, young guys and vets included all got up to go congratulate Laroche on hitting his first big league home run. It didn’t seem like a clubhouse divided to me, and i was watching the broadcast with a keen eye. I didn’t see anyone give him a high-five or a congratulations in way where it seemed like they were just going through the motions. But instead, were genuinely happy for him. That was great to see.
That, along with the semi-comeback we had where the score was 7-4 were the highlights of today’s game for me.
Kent is old school and I love old school. When he talks about manufacturing runs, that’s what Pierre and Furcal are supposed to do, which they have done sufficiently (but could be better at obviously, with Furcal hurt). But that’s where Grady needs to call a bunt. Are players to take that on themselves? I know recently Kent tried to leg out a triple or go home or something and was thrown out. Was that his call to make on the pads? Maybe. Was that trying to do something not normally done just to show the kids (or grady) how it’s done?
As with any organization (companies, bowling teams, colleges, etc), an “Excellence” attitude starts with the top (management). Take the Angels. Although Stoneman is criticized for not making the big moves at deadlines, etc., don’t you think he consults with his scouts and especially with Scoscia.
“Hey, Mike….whaddya need?”
“Nothing really. Just gotta get whathisname healthy. Maybe a another reliever if there’s a decent one out there but….nah, I’m cool”
“OK. See ya”
Enf of conversation.
Situational hitting is also important, and this may be where Kent’s frustrations also lie. If i recall, Martin, post all-star break, seemed to be pulling off on the ball a whole lot, it almost looked like he was trying to hit home-runs or something. As a result, Martin was stuck in a slump for a period of time.
Another instance might have been Kemp’s situational hitting and how he would often try to bat with his home-run swing, with a guy on 3rd and 1 out. I recall an instance where he struck out with pierre on 3rd base and 1 out, and he struck out swinging hard. The broadcasters on Fox were talking about how young guys had to learn how to go up with an approach and stick with it. They talked about how Kemp was trying to do too much, when all he had to do was put the bat on the ball an d bring pierre home on a grounder if need be.
These are 2 instances that i recall that might be why Kent is frustrated. Again, i don’t see this as Kent blaming these guys for what they’re doing. It’s just that they’re working their way into established major league hitters, and these things will come with time. Kent has been around in the majors probably longer than some of these guys have been playing baseball, so that is why he might be frustrated because he knows they can do it, but it’s just their youth and inexperience that is holding them back.
orth- you’re probably right. i am lumping them all together but I’d bet there is some disrespect going on. i wish we had someone with access to the clubhouse (other than the players and coaches) that could clue us in with the TRUTH.
speaking of Stoneman..i think he’s too passive in protecting his young talent. He’s had a couple opportunities to make deals for impact players like Tejada for example, but he refuses to pull the trigger.
As a result, you have prospects that are losing their values, and becomming weaker trade pieces such as Ervin Santana among others.
If i was an Angels fan, that would be one thing that would irk me about their front office. Imagine how much better they would be if Vlade was given more protection in the lineup?
I actually respect Kent’s comments today. It shows the underlining total lack of direction for the club.
Sure the kids might be sort of outta control. But if the managemnt insisted on professional behavior and also contudted themselves professionally they perhaps the kids would have taken the cue and been more serious.
But the kids see a manager who is very arbitrary in lineups. A manager who does not reward execution and results. Hit well today? Sit for three games…LITTLE LEAGUE will show them who’s boss by gosh!
So who can blame the kids for losing focus. They got nothing back from management in terms of rewarding performance with the playing time that historically earns a player.
And who can blame Kent who I feel is taking a backhanded swipe at the management for failing to instill the desire to win in the kids. Perhaps Kent is trying to lead in a way. He might be trying to impart his thoughts on how few chances a guy can have to win and no matter what management does a player needs to do the job he is being paid for…no matter what.
I see Kent’s comments also telling the Dodgers unless something major changes he is leaving the $9M on the table and the team can go screw themselves.
Kent is a POS jint…but this time I respect his thoughts. He was not knocking the kids at all but rather showing them the vets do not appreciate their lack of professional maturity. Professional maturity is something that as Kent says, comes from experience…and from the guidlines management gives them.
I’m glad Kent is frustrated. I’m glad he cares so much about winning a championship. I would disagree with him to the extent that he believes the youth are the reason we have failed this year. And I think that most Dodger fans would agree that it was the lack of playing time by youth such as Loney and Kemp in favor of veterans like Garciaparra, Pierre, and Gonzalez that cost us a better season.
As for experience, I agree with Kent that the kids need it. And they should have gotten more of it this year.
This is one time that when I say, “Wait ’til next year”, I say it with a great deal of hope and enthusiasm. I really believe that 2008 will be the beginning of something really special in Dodger history.
If Kent choses, he can come along for the ride.
Somebody asked if LaRoche has proven himself or should be trade bait. LaRoche, due to a combination of back problems and the bizarre practice of repeatedly bringing him up only to pull him out of the starting lineup three days later, has not yet had a chance to show how solid his major league skills are.
It’s unfortunate to hear that the Dodgers’ would call in to complain about Bob Harvey. With how easy it is to look up statistics today callers can effortlessly keep Bob in check if he reports something wrong. We need someone at the helm of Dodger Talk to objectively look at decisions made by Little, Colletti, and McCourt.
I love Jeff Kent’s passion! This is a guy who wants to win. Of course he’s frustrated with how this season has unraveled.
I’ve been a Dodger fan since the early 50’s (I vaguely remember seeing the Dodgers on TV then and watching Jackie Robinson!). The most important thing I’ve learned about baseball is that a team needs a consistent line-up. It does not matter if you have a big bat in there or not – look at the 1965-66 Dodgers for instance. A good manager tailors his decisions based on his team’s talents. If they don’t hit lots of HR’s, then play small ball, be aggressive on the basepaths, etc. A good manager encourages his team. Don’t see this happening with Grady.
Quick change of subject, sort of . . . The thought has occurred to me that the reason Grady’s playing Gonzo is that he’s assisting in marketing Gonzo for his next employment opportunity. Kind of like when he played Betemit just prior to trading him . . . that was pure marketing.
So although this year seems about over, there’s always hope for next year. Let’s pray that the front office uses the off-season wisely and finds someone to manage our team more effectively than Grady has done. I’ve thought over the course of this season that Grady needs to have his head examined, but he’d have to go to a proctologist to have it done.
I think that all of this Kent discussion just vividly points out the “loss of control” I attribute to Grady as the manager of this team. If he can’t keep the team together and focused on winning, what can he do – make a lineup?
FIRE GRADY AND COLLETTI TOO!!!
Bill Plaschke wrote an article about the alleged dissension (probably true) between the vets and the kids. It can be found at:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke21sep21,1,7581471.column?page=2&coll=la-headlines-sports
I responded to this part of the article: “As for Kent, he will make noises about retiring, especially since the Dodgers will reduce his playing time next year while playing Tony Abreu.”
Dang!! I just lost my beautifully written response to Plaschke in a copy/paste process gone wrong. The upshot of it is that Kent has nothing to worry about from Abreu.
The difference between a Gonzo/Kemp controversy and a potential Kent/Abreu controversy is that the first involves a fading star v. a budding superstar while the second involves a still very productive 2B v. a regular prospect.
I believe there is nothing wrong with what Kent said. He says the kids are good, just seems they lost focus. And who should get blamed for that “Grady and Ned”. Or better yet, who better then Kent to make these comments 39 year old who still produces or a 40 year old egotistical veteran who produced for 1/2 the year, who whined in the papers about his playing time.
The thing I don’t like about what Kent said I don’t agree with. You guys are telling me the team would’ve been better having the veterans play. What hurt the team is that we didn’t play the young guys enough. Kent is also at the end of his career he has no range and only hit 20 Hr’s. The young guys are going to be 1 year better while the veterans will be 1 year older.
I agree, diehardblu. The younger guys should have been brought up earlier (Loney for sure) and should have had more chance to play earlier, just like AZ did with their young players. Then they could have matured better before the playoff crunch started. I will be glad to have Kent back if he decides to return, but I’d expect that his productivity will decline some more, and he’s already been a defense liability this season. Therefore, he should expect to play a great deal less than this season.
Above all, we need somebody to manage this team who can inspire the younger players and who can “demand” respect as well as performance from the younger group. That is NOT Little.
So, it has to start with FIRING LITTLE, and in order to do that I believe you also have to FIRE COLLETTI.
You might have to read between the lines a little with what Kent said. I think he was indicating that Management didn’t bring in the right veterans. I don’t think he had an issue specifically with the young guys playing, but more to the point that there weren’t the right veteran guys and they were forced to use the young guys to make up for that deficit.
I’m becoming a stand in Rockies fan for the rest of the season. That would be a fun team to watch in the playoffs. ****, both the Dbacks and the Rockies would be a good story in the playoffs.
Yesterday on this blog, I stated that Jeff Kent would have to come back next season and be the leader of this team, I also wrote that he was a leader by example because of his quiet nature. Boy was I wrong on that. I believe that Kent’s comments yesterday proved that what I wrote yesterday was right on the money, Grady Little does not have the respect of this team. I don’t believe that Kent was saying that the team was better off with the veterans, more than he was saying the team would have been better off with some stability and continuity. If Grady had decided from day one to play Nomar and Gonzo and Kent everyday, fine, so be it, but don’t waiver back and forth everyday. If Grady had made a set line up, young or old, doesn’t matter, but had he stuck to it and given it more than 9 innings at a time to work, I think the Dodgers would have been better off, they would have won a few more games. They may not be a team that’s ready for a world title, but they would still be in contention and certainly not in 4th place. Plaschke writes in his article today that they young guys were outplaying the vets on a daily basis, and he mentions Gonzo, Nomar and Kent. I disagree on Kent, no one on this team outplayed Kent, no one. If management, Frank McCourt, does not pay attention or turns a blind eye to Plascke’s article and to the obvious problem in his clubhouse, this team will not be any better next season. Frank McCourt has to cut his losses sooner as opposed to later, he has to get rid of Grady now because he’s going to start ’08 in the same type of turmoil as he’s ending ’07 and that won’t be good for business. If Grady is gone now, the Dodgers have alot of time to pick and choose the right manager, they have time to bring in a manager who is not afraid to show emotion and not afraid of a veteran like Gonzo or Nomar saying, I need to play because of my career numbers. The time to save the ’08 season is now, not later. We have already let this one get away, let’s not do this again, Mr. McCourt, I hope your listening.
I hope no one takes Bill Plaschke’s latest seriously, mostly because it doesn’t seem to know what it’s trying to say. The question is what are they supposed to listen to or do about things– Plashcke doesn’t even seem to know. He wants it both ways – and isn’t even clear what those ways are! It’s fine and understandable if Kent isn’t happy with the results this season, he’s a gamer, and is bitterly disappointed. Makes sense. My problem is with the finger pointing, as if his finger were a gun and he was randomly firing it, mostly at his younger teammates, in anger. They played their tails off and were a big reason the Dodgers were even in it at all. (And you might be right blondeca, if that’s what Kent means then I agree with it more. It just sounded like he was specifically blaming the young guys, for… what? Not asking him for advice? On baserunning? He was as bad or worse than Kemp on the basepaths the past two months.)
I like Kent’s passion; just think it was misdirected.
On the other hand, if he’d blown up like that a few months ago maybe it would have been a good thing? Then the team wouldn’t have pretended like nothing was wrong, could have had an air it out team meeting and maybe they would have come together more because they had to. Now they don’t have to.
I just hope mgmt doesn’t freak out and decide to get Kent a ring next season they need to sign a bunch more “gutty veterans with heart.”
It’s not too early to make a statement for 2008:
FIRE GRADY AND COLLETTI BOTH NOW!!!
I got yelled out in an email by an unknown someone for suggesting that Grady be fired minutes after the Dodgers are mathematically eliminated. Someone said I was annoying on my posts, but they were too much of a pvssy to let me know who they were.
It obviously wasn’t me blondcaboy!
Josh need to change his tag line at the top of the blog.
Inside the Dodgers will continue on into 2008, with ongoing thoughts, comments and observations from the Los Angeles Dodgers Public Relations and Broadcasting Director Josh Rawitch and other front office members during the club’s pursuit of a seventh world championship. Get Into the Blue!
well whomever it was, was a complete tool. Kept telling me to go to bed. I was up late working. I wasn’t ready for bed **** it.
oh and Josh, yes Ned and Stan could easily be trying to sabotage the Dodgers. Those Giants are dirty evil creatures. If you’re around them long enough, you never know what you might do to the Dodgers. Afterall, please explain how Ned kept calling the Devil Rays last season. It had to be a secret time released mind control implanted by the evil ones.
Conte probably hurt Schmidt subconsiously during a post work out rub down.
Don’t put it past them Josh. Seriously, don’t. In fact, have you been to a psychiatrist since your time with the Giants? If you haven’t, you truly should have yourself checked out. You never know when something inside you might go off and you find yourself trying to kill the queen at a ball game.
blondecaboy,
I think you’re totally oof base wanting Grady fired minutes after they are mathematically eliminated. He should be fire SECONDS after!
*off base
No way should Grady Little be fired before Ned Colletti. He’s the one who created the mess of a clubhouse, full of veteran egos mixed with younger players who deserve more playing time. No way would I want to try to juggle that mess.
the only way you get rid of Ned, is if you get White or Ng to take over the role. I still think we need a co-GM with those two.
scott, glad you corrected your mistake, I really thought you meant oof.
I’ve had it with this veteran experience BS. The best player and leader on the team is Russell Martin and he’s 24 with 1 1/2 years experience. The only difference is he was allowed to play a full time last year. I don’t care who hasn’t won a ring or not especially those who have played 1 or 2 years of their entire career with the Dodgers. Good riddance selfish career numbers minded vets!
Kent’s comments are really unexpected… maybe for you guys!
I said before that Kent only play this game for himself to win his Ring!
he doesn’t work for this team instead he wants the team to work for him… that’s not a good attitude coz he is not really the star player here!
i know he has all the rayt to complain coz he has been very productive amongst the veterans and he is the team leader!
but his comments are wrong! yeah u just can’t give experience to this Kid! but how can they gain experience if u don’t play them?
that’s just a stupid thing to say!
Kent is one of the few vets who delivered this yr, so I accept his venting.
However, I disagree on the points he made. This season flopped bec (1) veterans failed us (Nomar, we don’t need a $10M singles hitter, Furcal, Gonzo, Schmidt, Wolf, Tomko, Hendrickson); (2) lousy managing by Grady with no fire; (3) wasted money by Ned spending $7-10M/piece on over-their-prime vets instead of getting one quality top-tier star to mix w/ Kent in the middle of the order and complement the kids.
Highlights from this season: Martin, Bills, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Broxton, Saito, Penny. I wouldn’t have chosen Pierre, but he delivered what Ned got him for.
Finally, being a vet doesn’t automatically make you wise, or a good clubhouse leader, or enable you to deliver clutch hits and defense. It could just mean you’re old.
come on guys, read between the lines. Kent is bashing management, not the young guys. He’s basically saying that management didn’t bring in the right veteran pieces and they were forced to rely upon the youth.
P.S. Most embarrassing running mistake of the year — Mark Sweeney. Not one of the kids.
oh better yet, fire him via text message, and if it’s at Dodger stadium next week, on the big screen.
blondecaboy
are u kidding me?
i know he is bashing the management!
but he also said that the Kids don’t know what it feels like with ur career nearing an end!
he said like ” u just can’t give experience to this kids”
I see your point blonde…
The clubhouse is a disaster because Grady was trying to make everyone happy which makes no one happy.
Ned never should have re-signed Nomar with Loney ready to go.
Let’s not forget that stupid Brady Clark signing…
FIRE NED
FIRE GRADY (still an idiot regardless who GM’s)
“I don’t know what it is, especially when you have a lot of [young players],” said Kent, whose double Thursday raised his average to .298 to go along with a team-high 20 home runs and 78 runs batted in. “It’s hard to influence a big group. We’ve got some good kids on the team. Don’t get me wrong, please don’t misinterpret my impressions. [But] it’s hard to translate experience.
“I don’t know why they don’t get it.”
He’s also bashing the kids…
diehard, he is bashing the kids but I think in a constructive kind of way. They have plenty of years to play, they need to be better prepared then they were this year. I think Kent can pop off whenever he wants, he has earned it.
I think the comments on the young guys is more to the point that they are young, and he probably feels as though he’s the only one that provides influence to such a big group.
And honestly, I can see where he would say he doesn’t understand why they don’t get it. I honestly can’t figure out why Kemp can’t plant the f’ning bat on his f’ning shoulder with bases loaded and no f’ning outs. He didn’t adjust to the fact that he’s an open book on that first pitch with RISP.
It’s ok, to take the young guys down a peg or two. Kemp would have no room to complain over criticism, nor would Loney or Ethier, although Loney does seem quite a bit more disciplined that the rest of the rooks.
Martin is not a rookie anymore and could be classified as having been around a little more. One more year for Martin and he can easily be the C for the team, in fact, I think it would be an awesome move to put the C on his uni for the start of 2008.
One large criticism of Martin, is his drive to play every day. It’s kind of like having a parent that will give you candy every time you ask for it. At some point in time, the kid figures out that having candy everyday isn’t good for him. So Martin needs to better understand the longevity of the season, and his importance to the club, as well as the important of the backup catcher.
The Brady Clark trade got rid of Dessens, so it was a wash, and they got some production out of Clark for a little bit. It didn’t hurt while Kemp while down from his opening day physics lesson.
DENVER — Dodgers manager Grady Little stood at the front edge of the dugout at Coors Field on Wednesday night and had a perfect view of pitcher Jonathan Broxton’s latest meltdown.
Though Broxton has now given up five home runs this month — after allowing just one in the first five months of the season — Little said he’s not about to give up on his struggling relief pitcher.
Little was asked if he would use Broxton in today’s game if the need arose. He didn’t hesitate to answer.
“If he feels good,” Little said, “look for it.”
Little said that Broxton’s recent affair with the home run ball has more to do with pitch location than it does Broxton’s health.
Broxton, during his 80th appearance of the season on Wednesday, served up a two-run home run to the Colorado Rockies’ Brad Hawpe. The home run was the winning hit for the Rockies.
“He’s going through a period of time where he’s mislocated a few pitches that he really got hurt on,” Little said. “The stuff is still the same. His stuff is the same. You still see the ball coming out of his hand very good.”
Broxton revealed, after Wednesday’s loss, that his arm is feeling the effects of pitching in so many games, and it’s what is leading to his location problems.
“I can tell it’s September but I still want to go,” he said. “I’m a little sore but it’s nothing to make a big deal about. It ain’t super, super sore where it ain’t going to affect me but I can tell it’s September and I can tell from my location. I’m not going to back down. I’m going to go until I get hurt.”
______________________________
That last sentence is AMAZING.
Grittle and Brox must be two peas in a pod.
UNREAL!
FIRE GRADY
HIRE YEAGER
GIVE WHITE A RAISE AND WAIT TO SEE IF NED MESSES UP AGAIN NEXT YEAR.
Just want to bring up two points that reflect on Colletti’s handling of the dollars being spent by this organization and his philosophy.
Last year we got Toby Hall as the substitute catcher, and he managed a pretty decent batting average and performance when relieving Martin. We let him depart, because management didn’t want him to go to arbitration and possibly get a couple of million in salary based on his performance. We got instead Lieberthal for $1 million, and then either found out that he was no longer productive or for other reasons just used him too sparingly to be of much value. As a result of not having a valid and productive relief catcher, we probably overused Martin, and saw his performance tail off toward the end of the season. Dollars falsely saved in my estimation.
During the draft, we drafted a pitcher by the name of Blair in the fifth round. Everybody pretty much agreed that, had he not been a likely college candidate, he would have been picked in round two. Having got the rights to him, we however would not budge to offer him more than a fifth round signing bonus, while he expected something higher if he was going to forego college. If we were not prepared to give him something closer to a second round signing bonus, why let Logan waste the draft pick. It might have cost an an extra 1/2 million to get a real pitching prospect, and I don’t see too many of them in our minor league system, but consider how many dollars this management has wasted instead with Schmidt, and Wolf, and picking up Loaiza, and continue on and on, etc.
This GM does not manage his payroll dollars effectively and does not exercise sound judgment in too many of the other personnel decisions.
kent’s complaints are valid, although he should have called out the underperforming vets as well. for example, kemp made too many baserunning errors and swung for the fences a little too often. i remember so many times he’d strike out w/ a runner in scoring position rather than getting the ball in play. i hope kent comes back. his defense is decent and he is still productive offensively. i hope nomar figures it out in the offseason, as i’ve always liked him as well. is it just me, or have the dodgers teams the past couple of seasons not really seemed like they enjoy playing together?
Some good news, Logan White was not hired as the new GM in Houston, the Astros hired Ed Wade the former Phillie GM.
Toby Hall was a veteran whiner, too. In the final year of his contract, first he said he was thrilled to be a Dodger and be involved in a pennant race, etc., etc. Then when he sat, he said the Dodgers were compromising his chance at a decent free agent contract. Whatever. Same with Lugo, except Gracy kept playing him just about every day…and just about every day, he tanked…go ask Boston. If anyone remembers or cares, he was the fifth batter in a row that splendid night against the Padres, and I remember thinking, Julio, now is the time to FINALLY step up, hit the fifth home run in a row, beat the Padres in regulation, and make history…not! I just love players from Tampa Bay.
MATT KEMP is 22 year old stud that runs the bases hard!!!
He is hitting .342 w/RISP!!!!!
he is only 0 for 7 w/ bases loaded ONLY seven at bats that will turn around given the chance.
Kemp also grounded out to score Pierre w/bases loaded the other night after being behind 0-2. A pretty decent AB I might add. Better than Gonzo’s typical inning ending DP.
Kemp was not the only one with base running errors. I think Kent has as many bonehead plays on the bases as Kemp.
Kent defense for a second baseman is defitnetly below average, that double play ball furcal threw to low for Kent any average second baseman turns that play.
GIBSON for MANAGER
MARTIN FOR CAPTAIN!!!!!
Us fans know Martin already is the REAL captain, officially or not.
Kent’s done his job for us ok, but he’s no leader. I hope he retires. No chemistry with a guy like that.
The young guys have won together in the minors and they’ll win together in the bigs. Screw the washed up whiny veterans.
I have lost my respect for the veterans on this team. Listen to how much selfishness is in their complaints. They are just concerned about their chances and their records. They don’t care what’s best for the team or the fans. I hope they all depart over the winter. Bring on the kids and let them play! Look at how it has worked out for other teams. The “veteran mix” has backfired for Ned and the Dodgers. I hope the lesson is well-learned!
gibby manager
logan white gm
Buster Olney writes:
A-Rod a perfect fit for Dodgers
The guy who makes the most sense, of course, would be Alex Rodriguez. He would cost the Dodgers something in the range of eight years and $250 million, a staggering price for L.A. owner Frank McCourt
If he does go, the Dodgers would be a perfect landing spot for him, if the team is ready to spend big.
also:
Watched a lot of the Dodgers’ loss to the Rockies, and Derek Lowe looked awful — he kept looking in the dugout in his last inning, as if to say: Are you coming out to get me?
What a shock. Mets blog is screaming, “Fire Willie! Fire Omar!”
i hope not to see gonzo’s name on the lineup today!
if he wants to get “HIS 2,500 hits” he can get it as a PH!
i don’t know if Nomar is included in this veterans and rookie war!
Nomar is a good guy! and i think he understands that he can’t play a double header! so he has no reason to get mad!
so it’s Gonzo, Kent, Saenz, Lieberthal! (Veterans)
i guess those are the players who complains alot coz they are the players who doesn’t play alot!!!
I think Kent does have *some* points about some of the kids. But he has to realize that basically *all* young players have their faults and that things get better with experience. You can’t fault them for not having it.
jspelk
u can’t say that he is rayt…
he has been a rookie before…
he should understand what it feels like…
he should just tell the kids to relax and enjoy but no he didn’t say that… he said this kids don’t understand things…
If the Mets fire Omar and Willie we should be first in line to hire both.
NED FOR PRESIDENT……he needs a new job.
lol
Start playing the kids.
Lieberthal and Saenz don’t count…can’t believe they’re screaming. Hendrickson? Hernandez? Seanez? Doubt it. They’re too “not good.” Wells? Nah, he’s too hang loose. Sweeney? Who knows. Hillenbrand, being the clubhouse boy scout he is?
I now agree with the people who say fire grady. Everybody knows for most of the season I have been Grady’s biggest supporter but the team has just given up in September(thats the nicest way I know how to put it) and Grady continues to play the Vets when its obvious he needs to give the young guys valuable major leage ABs. I just can’t believe what I have seen from the team this week. I will keep my normal position on Ned.
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Let’s play spoiler!
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This SHOULD be tonights lineup:
Abreu 2B
Pierre CF
Loney 1B
Kemp RF
Ethier LF
LaRoche 3B
Lieberthal C (Martin looks so worn out)
Hu SS
Loaiza P
i hope Loiza isn’t a control freak today!
i would rather have wolf than him!
Kent hasn’t “earned” the right to pop off in my book. He is creating dissension rather than helping out with his experience. It’s a wonder that these kids aren’t mental cases by now with the way they’ve been treated. Ned blocks their paths by signing over-the-hill veterans, Grady plays the veterans with lineups that have the kids continually in flux, and now the selfish whiners complain because their own desires aren’t being met. Where is the team spirit? To the veterans, team spirit seems to mean play us regardless on our offensive and defensive shortcomings. LA will never win with that kind of attitude. Let’s hope that the vets are gone before it rubs off on the kids.
Does anyone remember what the beef was with the previous GM Dan Evans. He was in place before DePo, and understandably McCourt wanted to put his own management in place. I had the impression, however, that Evans was somewhat instrumental in revamping our minor league talent and drafting to the more respectable level that we have today. He was one of the candidates interviewed for current vacancies.
redfox, Kent hasn’t earned the right to pop off? Wow! He is a hall of famer, he is the steadiest player on this team, not only this season but in the previos 2 seasons, and he is the only guy or veteran who leads by example. He has absolutely earned the right to, as you say “pop off” he should of done it earlier. Kent has played for real major league managers, something that the Dodgers kids are yet to experience.
Redfox, you are totally off base. Kent has every right to pop off, he is the leader, he leads by example. His numbers his presence, should speak for themselves. No other veteran on this team has earned that right, he said nothing wrong, he spoke the truth. He pretty much lit a fire under all the rookies guts, this is what a veteran should do. Guarantee Kent comes back next year, with all these kids and hopefully no more whining veterans. He deserves every right to pop off.
calauto, Amen!!!
I have been reading the blog and I noticed alot of people like Kevin Kenndey. Kevin Kennedy was a $hitty manager in Boston even with all the talent he had. He would be even worse for us. Dave Duncan is the type ofguy we need. Maybe Jimmy Williams would be interested in the job. If New York fires Randolph he would be my first choice though.
*of guy
Can anybody find me Kents exact quote…?
Logan White won’t be the GM of the astros or the pirates. Thank God. Now lets make him the GM of the Dodgers.
No max.
Lets make Swood the GM of the Dodgers in 2008.
what?
Kent leads this team?
how?
The management said so!
yeah he has good numbers… yeah he is a future HOF!
but with those stupid comments, does that do good for the team?
NO!
he has been a rookie before… he should know that this Kids needs experience and a veterans who can teach them with playing in this kind of environment…
i agree with what he said about the management… but to talk about and insult this kids who had help this team at least to be in the hunt a week a go is not rayt!!!
i don’t like Kent… he doesn’t play for the Dodgers… he only play this game to win for himself…
he is not a team leader!
VAN 19, sorry you are wrong too.!!!!!
sorry had too, ya si muy chingon team leader!!!
Here’s how I see 2008 shaping up:
Front Office:
GM:Swood
Scouting Director:Calauto
Minor League Director:Kiper
Special Assistant to GM:Van
Coaches/Management:
Manager:Diehard
Bench Coach:Max
Hitting Coach:Charris
Pitching Coach:Alex
Kiper04 and californiaautorebuilder, if creating dissension between groups of players is a mark of leading by example, then you’re absolutely right. But that’s not the kind of leadership I respect or want, nor is it the kind of leadership that veterans should be providing to our kids.
van, Kent probably doesn’t like you either. Anyways, why was it a stupid comment? Do you want him to pull a Colletti and turn a blind eye to what Grady does with the line up and how he impedes the growth of the young players? Maybe he should be like Gonzo, put on a big smile sign some autograph’s, complain about playing time, start 3 out of 4 games in a crucial series, get 7.5 Mil for 14 HR’s and then tell the team you’re not coming back because you want to go somewhere to play everyday so that you can get to 3000 hits. You’re right, Kent should keep quiet.. right. Kent is the leader on the field, he may be an *******, but he produces.
im sorry gus but it’s just stupid to comment about this kids…
they are the one who help us last week to win 4 games straight and be in the Hunt and what the heck they are the one who help this team since they got the job…
it’s unfair to say those things!
yeah Kent earn the respect of his team mates and the fans but he need to respect others too and not make those kind of comments…
swood, If I’m your minor league director, diehard better play my kids when they’re ready. I won’t put up with any Grady like stunts!!!
2008
no more
gonzo!!!!!!
Kiper…
the only stupid comment that he said is about the kids!!!
he said the kids don’t understand how it feels not to win a championship in a 16 year career…
yeah he is rayt! but do the kids want to lose? NO! They want to win also!
that’s just stupid… the kids helped this team alot!!!
I think Grady rode the short bus to school everyday.
Redfox, there is no dissension, Kent just wants to win, and personally I think this whole comment thing was directed at one person and one perso only, Grady. I think he lost the clubhouse, because Grady lost Kent awhile back. Because Kent is the leader.
If Kent wanted to win championship he wouldn’t have gone 0-4 against the halos in game 7!!!!!!
Since we are out of contention here’s my line up.
Pierre
Martin
Loney
Kemp
Ethier
Abreu
LaRoche
Hu
Stults or Houlton
It may have been intended partially to Grady, but Kent does take direct shots at the kids. The same exact kids who are carrying this team right now. Kent should maybe tell Gonzo and Nomar to quit being freaking babies about their playing time, because it is effecting the clubhouse.
Love the line up diehard. I would switch Abreu and LaRoche, but great nonetheless.
That is exactly the kind of lineup we should be seeing pretty much the rest of this season, diehard. Grady, of course, will not do any such thing even after we’re mathematically eliminated.
Understand guys, Kent just the lit the fire for next year. The kids will respond to there “team leader” Jeff Kent. When Kent retires the new chingon will be Russ Martin. Then one day Russ will say something about the young guys, and we will have this conversation again.
van, I guess that you’re a lot smarter than I am and obviously your mastering of the English language puts me at a disadvantage, but I just read Kent’s comments in the LA Times, and for the life of me, I cannot find where he says the kids want to lose.
He mentions that “it’s hard to give a young kid experience” and he also says “I don’t know why they don’t get it” Now nowhere in the article do I read anything that even sounds like he’s blaming the kids or accusing them of wanting to lose, but, like I said, I’m not as smart as you.
jkissen your right I like LaRoche in front of Abreu we can also throw Delwyn Young in Center and Second Base a few games.
I love it. For the past 2 months it’s been NOTHING but Grady and Colletti and McCourt and management hating on this blog, by everybody, myself included. Today, a veteran player, or a player, period! Takes a shot at management, or at Grady Little, and all of a sudden everybody is offended by Jeff Kent. Who understands us? Actually who understands those of you trashing Kent. Wow, isn’t this what everybody wanted, someone to stand up to Grady? I guess that if Russell Martin says he loves Grady Little, all of you will want him traded immediately or Grady signed to a 3 year extension. LOL!!!
What exactly aren’t the kids getting? Are they not getting the idea that Gonzo and Nomar should be playing ahead of them? Where is there a rule that crappy veterans should play ahead of better younger players? I absolutely think the kids wants to win. Russell Martin has logged in the most innings and starts of any catcher in baseball. You are telling me that guy doesn’t want to win. I think the young kids are frustrated. Specifically Kemp. He has been arguably our best player the past 2 months and he is still getting platooned in the outfield.
I agree with you 100% on Young, diehard. I would like for them to sit Pierre and see what Young is really all about. I don’t think he has seen one at bat since going 4 for 4 in Cincinnati.
Kiper…
when u said the kids don’t understand things! what does that mean to u?
i think it meant that they don’t understand what it feels like not wo win a championship in a 16 year career and nearing to an end…they are just there playing!
im trying to open my mind… he didn’t explain everything very clear…
The reason why everyone is upset at Kent is that he’s pointing the finger at the kids. The Kids!!! You know how most of us feel about the kids. We let Beltre grow and he blossomed. The young guys were the LEAST of our problems this year and he wants to include them why the team lost?? It is on the way grittle and Colletti mismanaged this team. That’s why the clubhouse is a mess.
Kiper…
i like that he said those things about the management!
i just don’t want to hear him talking about the kids coz it frustrates me!
he has been a kids before! he should understand!
kid*
at the beginning of the season i planned to make a song about the dodgers this year! (coz i thought it’s a success)
i don’t want to do it this year coz it has been a frustratiing year! maybe next year!
Go 2008 Dodgers!!!
van 19, is william hung!!!! lol
Young guys just don’t seem to get it… and that includes a bunch of you in here. A lack of life of respect and a lack of general life experience that Kent speaks of… and I can remember one example being Matt Kemp just a few weeks ago. It was in San Francisco, in a game the Dodgers eventually lost by one run.
Furcal grounded out and Pierre singled to start off the inning. Matt Kemp then turned an easy triple (with his speed) into a double by not picking up Rich Donnelly after rounding first base. Instead, Kemp hesitated and looked toward the outfield and watched the center fielder. By this time Pierre had scored easily from first base and Vin Scully was beside himself wondering why Matt Kemp wasn’t standing on third base. Then came an interesting close up on Matt Kemp that caught my attention at the time, and in retrospect has me now wondering just how teachable this kid really is.
As the camera focused in with Kemp standing on second base, one could see that a dialog was taking place between Kemp and Donnelly. I could read Kemp’s lips as he mouthed the words, “That’s not on me.” To which something else was said to Kemp and his hand came up as if “talk to the hand” just ended the conversation, with Kemp’s hand swiping to the side as if “whatevas” was now an appropriate response. I remember at the time thinking to myself that Kemp was having recent trouble on the bases with not picking up the coaches and obviousely Donnelly had been working with him. But I also remember thinking of that one word… “respect”. When Kemp did this I spoke toward the TV and said something to the effect, “…oh, like you know it all. Kid… you should be standing at third base right now!”
So what happens next? Kent pops out on a fly ball to the first baseman, deep in foul territory… which would have easily scored Kemp from third base. Instead, Kemp moves over to third base where he should have been tagging up from. Two outs, Kemp at third, and then Nomar flies out to center to end the inning. We lost that game by one run. Who knows what would have happened with the Dodgers leading 4 to 1 instead of 3 to 1 in an eventual 4 to 5 loss to the Giants. That was also the game where Furcal’s error put the Dodgers into another tail spin late in the game. Perhaps with that extra run, Furcal’s error might not have loomed so large at the time. We’ll never know.
But one thing is for certain: the kids need to check their attitudes at the door and be willing to learn from those around them who have vested time in the bigs. The best example of the kind of reverence to be shown the veterans is displayed on a daily basis by Russell Martin. He’s the real-deal and will be the team leader before too long. Hopefully he can bridge the youngsters toward the older players and help them to glean their wisdom and increase their knowledge of the game. It’s the life experience that I’ve mentioned before… and it can only come about if one applies that knowledge to create the wisdom in thier own future actions. Let’s hope they show the respect where it’s due, or else I’m afraid that another character trait may rear it’s ugly head next year: ignorance.
LOL!!!!!!good one
lol @ california!
kssparkuhl, thank you. I remember that game well, but wasn’t Kemp picked off at third after the base running blunder?
Young guys just don’t seem to get it… and that includes a bunch of you in here. A lack of life of respect and a lack of general life experience that Kent speaks of…
Are you kidding?
Kent needs to check gonzo’s ego at the door. I don’t even consider Kent a TRUE Dodger. Who does? I really hope the Dodgers figure out that we need to be strong up the middle. We can’t have a 40 year old middle infielder that is ridiculous. What about when Kent and Pierre got thrown out at third with two outs in Philly. If I’m a baserunner and Donnelly is giving me tips. Iwould show him my hand that reads “GAME 1 NLDS” Every “veteran” needs to look in a mirror before they start pointing fingers.
kssparkul–thats part of what I was trying to say earlier. Kent *does* have a point with some of what he was saying, but I think his timing and language was curious. To me, some of the mental mistakes of the youngins has to be the responsiblity of the coaching staff. Kent seems to have a problem with the way some of the kids play. You can see the way he interacts with some of them that he does not approve. He has earned the right to voice his opinion. However, I think to be truly fair he should have called out some of the veteran players too who have also made base running mistakes but more importantly have underperformed.
kssparkuhl
the problem with donnely is can u trust him!!?
sometimes u just can’t trust him…
he has alot of errors this year!
donnely himself had alot of problems!
kssparkhul, that is a great case you made and you are right with that particular game. But remember they are kids. They are still learning and they are going to make mistakes, heck everyone makes mistakes. You are saying that the kids should learn from those around them. So should Kemp, Loney, and Ethier llineup at Grady’s door and complain about playing time like Nomar and Gonzo have done on numerous occassions. These older statement should teach the kids that its about winning and being a team. Maybe the kids should look at Gonzo and follow his amazing situational hitting. The guy couldn’t hit the ball the opposite way if his life depended on it.
van 19, is william hung!!!! lol
Posted by: californiaautorebuilder@hotmail.com | September 21, 2007 02:06 PM
LOL
20 hr’s from our clean up hitter who is a liability at 2nd base is not a good year.
Maybe Kent can be are 3b savior next year, and put Abreu or Young at 2b, and we will be strong up the middle. No wait we still have Pierre in cf. Diehard I understand what you are saying.
I think Grady rode the short bus to school everyday.
Posted by: jkissen@mac.com | September 21, 2007 01:46 PM
My sentiments exactly!!! ****
kssparkuhl
The problem with Donnelly is u can’t trust him that much…
he had alot of errors this year!
if i were Kemp i wouldn’t really want to look at him!
kssparkuhl,
What kind of attitudes toward the coaches do you expect with thet way they’ve been unfairly sent down and screwed with on a daily basis?
What’s better? A double that should’ve been a triple w/Kemp or a DP from “experienced and respectful” Gonzo?
And diehard is right about Donnelly. Who should pay attention to him? Terrible 3B coach.
Oh, and how many times has KENT run us out of an inning?
So you saw Kemp show a little attitude once toward a retarded 3B coach. Big deal.
sorry diehard, I meant “van”
Does Kent have the arm and the “quickness” to play 3rd?? You need to have good reaction time at third I don’t think Kent has that at 40. Pierre is a concern in CF but with arms in the Corner OF his arm won’t hurt us as much. At least not in the gaps.
The way it’s gone for the team over the past week, It’s safe to say the attendance for the final homestand will be just pathetic….
Fire Grady!!!
scott Its OK I hate Donnelly. your absolutely right.
Does anyone remember the July 4th game against Atlanta where Atlanta had a man on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs in the third I think and Chipper Jones coming to the plate? Instead of doing the smart thing and walking Jones to get to Andruw Jones who was batting .195 at the time Grady lets Tomko pitch to him and Jones ripped one up the middle to score both runners. Man, that game still bothers me. What a stupid move?!? Lets see, lets pitch to Chipper Jones who was batting .330 at the time with a .380 OBP or lets pitch to Andruw Jones who was hitting .195.
Jkissen, if we went on that topic, we would be here till spring training of 2008.
Fire Grady
Fire Ned
Good Job Kent!!!
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20070908&content_id=2195838&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away&c_id=la
Jkissen…WHAT?? You mean Grady made a poor choice in making a pitching decision? I truly find that hard to believe!. Maybe he should consult the pitching coach… (heavily laced with sarcasm)
well, if Kemp doesn’t trust donnelly, or want to pay attention to him, then he needs to be sent down to AAA. If Donnelly is incompetent, then that’s a personnel decision that needs to be made my management. Kemp has no right deciding on his own who he’s going to listen to out on the field. This isn’t Kemp’s team, and he needs to do as the coach says, no matter what.
that one hurt probably the most ksspark
hey jkissen,
Didn’t Grady just pitch to Holliday with runners on 2nd and 3rd when Holliday is the hottest hitter in baseball?
Result: 3-run HR.
Same old dog, same old trick.
and by the way, I agree with the Donnelly assessment. He’s made some curious decisions as a 3b coach. But that doesn’t mean Kemp should take things into his own hands and do what he wants out there. He’s a professional baseball player, and he has boundaries he has to follow just like anyone else out on the field, whether you’re a hall of fame 20 year veteran, or in your first big league game.
With that said, i don’t think the instance of Kemp showing attitude out on the field is rampant. It might have been a one-time thing, and that’s fine.
What i’m curious to see is what goes on behind closed doors, and what attitude problems manifest themselves when it’s only the players out there. One can only guess, and i’m curious to see if that 1 instance is indicative of what goes on behind closed doors and what Kent is alluding to.
Also, i agree with one of the posts above where it said that MArtin is not really considered a “kid” anymore. He’s a 2nd year player who is an all-star, and i think attitude/personality wise, he get’s it, and how to conduct himself professionally.
Grady, just isn’t the guy for the job.
Gibby 2008
lighten up casino.
Of course he should listen to his coaches. The point is, these kids are confused by a lack of good leadership here. Kemp getting ripped in the papers for bad baserunning, but Kent was aweful this year on the bases. I don’t remember people giving Kent a bad time for being inexperienced – oh, that’s right, he’s a veteran.
no offense really, casino.
I think we’ll have to wait and see what the clubhouse dynamic is next year. There’s been a lot of pouting by Dodger prospects lately (Guzman, Abreu, Loney, etc.) and it’s hard to believe that all of these guys are a-holes when management is a bunch of *****.
Kemp’s problems are not just baserunning. I think it’s the stereotype that he’s a young player, and he’s going to make mistakes out there. Thus, when these mistakes happen, it’s more newsworthy than say a furcal error or a Kent Mistake. It is what it is. If you wan’t to change it, go write articles for a paper to share your point of view.
It’s important to remember that the papers are out to make stories, and the young infusion of the Dodgers is something that’s more interesting than anything else. For instance, a Fox saturday broadcast included the broadcasters talking for about 2-3 minutes about a mistake that was made by a kid, and then they went on to discuss the Dodger’s season and how these young kids are giving the Dodgers a huge lift and are contributing heavily. By that same token, they discussed how with these great contributions, there’s going to be a learning curve, and mistakes made at the same time, and it’s the way it is.
I don’t necessarily see this as ripping the guy personally. The mistake might be highlighted because it’s a play in the game that just happened, but overall, discussing the contributions against certain risks is newsworthy and makes for a better story then talking about a Juan Pierre throwing fallacy.
It’s only on here where people talk about the same “mistakes” over and over again like Pierre’s rag arm. We all know its a fact, and it is what it is. I don’t see articles/discussions in the press dedicated solely to Pierre’s rag arm because quite frankly, it’s not as interesting to read than the young kids, and the growing that they’re doing right before our eyes. (good and bad)
scott..
i agree, we don’t really know what the clubhouse dynamic is this year, and if there are problems or little problems here and there, i hope next year is better.
It’s also important to remember that the clubhouse dynamic appeared to be alright at the beginning of the season when we were winning games and in the hunt for the playoffs. By that same token, last week’s series where we almost swept the D-backs was a huge boost for the ballclub. The only problems now that indicate clubhouse dissent is after this losing streak.
I think that’s telling about how badly these guy’s want to win, vets and young kids, and therefore, this losing and the thought of having our season end within 2 weeks is frustrating. Just last week, as we got to within 1 1/2 games of the Pads and started off great against the d-backs, everything seemed great and our ballclub was optimistic about our chances. I’m not so sure that all of this could change so drasticly, so soon.
20 hr’s from Kent who is 40 years old is not too shabby if you ask me. He bounced back great from last year and really contributed to our ball club this year. He was batting almost .500 in one of the months before he got his hurt hamstring, so he was doing his job out there.
For a comparison, just last night, Vlad Guerrero barely hit his 26th homerun, and you would think he would have double what Kent could provide, especially hitting in the AL.
My concern is Brox, he should be shut down for the rest of the year. Is Saito coming back, or is Brox next year’s closer. If he is then shut him down. Give Meloan the 8th inning from here on out. Start figuring what we have for next year. Hopefully it don’t include old has been’s.
and lastly, i can’t believe it took us the entire year to realize that William Hung is a dodger fan!! We have a superstar amongst us!
The kids will take us places and they would have had they been playing all year. It’s not the kids lack of respect,which i think is totally bull **** all the vets are just jealous because the kids got more playing time then them, or Kemp’s baserunning mistakes that cost us this year. We lost this season BECAUSE of the veterans.
Because of overpaid, overrated, and under producing veterans.
saito said he wants to be back next year, and there’s no indication that he won’t be resigned.
I’m thinking setup man will still be Brox next year as well.
Also, say all you want about the betemit-proctor trade, but Proctor has been doing a nice job out there for us. He’s really coming into his own as the 7th inning guy, and he’s becomming a great asset to our bullpen.
Proctor was still throwing 96mph even after pitching 3 consecutive games.
could someone with espn insider please post Rob Neyer’s blog called “Veterans have failed Dodgers”
my subscription ran out last month.
yah, that was impressive on proctor’s part.
She bangs, she bangs…
Luis Emilio Gonzalez will no longer be wearing a Dodger uniform after Sept. 30,2007. Hooray, sing it Van 19
Pretty soon you won’t even be able to check out box scores on ESPN unless you have insider privileges.
We all know Kemp is still a “Diamond in the Rough.” But, with proper instruction, coaching, and some hard work on his part, he will be a force to be reckoned with in the NL for a long time. Sure the kid’s got some faults. Who doesn’t?
Management, and coaching is the problem here. The ‘vets’ just didn’t produce as expected this year. I wouldn’t put the bulk of the blame for this season on the youth.
The season is over. Now let’s get over it, make some changes, and move on with new mangement. If Grady stays on as skipper, it’s a no brainer the attendance will have a significant drop next season.
Mr. McCourt, the ball is in your court.
Fire Grady.
This is FUNNY
In the article on the Dodger website for the game tonight it says” Crucial series begins tonight”
What are they smoking..crucial for who?…LOL, certainly not the Dodgers…Can’t believe they even said that…
Another thing..
I know Tomko wasn’t good for us…but some of the things he has said might make our pitching coach or manager not look so good…Bud Black, a former pitcher and pitching coach and now mgr of the Pads seems to think he’s got his stuff back..maybe because they haven’t told him to not throw so fast with more movement…I’m not saying I like Tomko..don’t get me wrong..but you have to wonder
if some of his problems were with what he was being told…not sure, but interesting that he has been much better since he left us..
Anyone that blames the kids for this season should not be allowed to reproduce children.
Stupidity like that shouldn’t continue to hamper society
I could only imagine what would have happened here if Grady would have made those comments instead of Kent.
As for manager….how about Kirk Gibson, Orel Hershiser ( if not for pitching coach) ..don’t know if he would want to be pitching coach)..but would rather have either one of those guys..
It’s weird the thing about Tomko is when he changed his delivery during the offseason according to him Honeycutt told him to throw across his body more. Anyone that knows anything about pitching knows that throwing across your body is the worst thing you can do as a pitcher. Bud Black was even quoted to say that.
Bombko still is horrible but it makes sense. He did lose velocity and wasn’t hitting his spots.
I just read on MLB headlines that Barroids will definitely NOT be in a Giant uniform next year. Giants management said adios. Makes me wonder where he’ll be next year. No doubt he’ll be a DH in the AL somewhere. Steinbrenner must be salivating right about now….
Barriods is going to be a Dodger next year. I just know it. god fire ned now before its too late PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!!
also Fire Grady just for this…
“He was pitching far too good a game to get in position to lose a game right there,”
come on. NO MORE STUPIDITY!!
Just read the Rob Neyer article on ESPN…He says the DODGERS SHOULD GO AFTER ALEX RODRIQUEZ…They need him!!
Think McCourt wants to spend those big bucks??
ksspark
Well said! I think Kiper may be right. After that blunder, he got picked off. I think the guy may be a numb-skull.
The kids are talented, but they are fundamentally lacking. And if they do not want to learn, maybe they’re not all they are cracked up to be. I’ve got my doubts.
I’ll take Kent’s version.
dprded, I probably still wouldn’t like Tomko, but he did pitch pretty well at the start of the season, and should have easily had 2 or 3 more wins for the team at the start.
But I’m a little torn, if they did change his delivery, it would easily explain why he did well at the start and that started to progressively **** more and more.
But on the otherside of that coin, why does Tomko have to be so ******* complacement and just go out there and continue to do what the coach says, if he was ******* so bad from that advice?
Tomko’s two starts haven’t exactly been against power house baseball clubs (Giants and Pirates). There is also something to a “confidence” boost when being put into a new situation. I guess we could call it “Tyler Houston Syndrome” or THS for short. He came over with fire and kicked *** for a very short time (although he wasn’t horrible when brought over, but got progressively worse while he was with the Dodgers).
I still despire Selig for interfering with the Dodgers and obtaining Vlad. McCourt should have had some ******* balls and said screw you.
knouffbrock…
Furcal, first out
Kent, second out
Nomar, third out
Kemp was stranded at third base. That game wasn’t the one where he was picked off third.
First off, Kent was referring to a thing called “professional maturity” (before reacting to the use of the word maturity in the phrase LOOK UP THE PHRASE). This is something that people in all professions acquire over time. It only comes via work ethic and experience. One must be humble in order to learn and grow as a professional in ANY field. In sports professional maturity is when kids eventually realize that talent alone is simply not enough…JEEBUS KEYRIST!! That was the ENTIRE point of Bull Durham.
What Kent alludes to is the kids are not being given the proper guidance and direction by the management. Young guys have HUGE talent but typically lack the professional maturity to realize they have weaknesses. These weaknesses need to be worked on by practice, watching and listening. These things were once the purview of the minors…but since kids are rushed to the MLB level in their very early 20s now they never have time to “learn-how-to-learn”.
Kent never once said any of the kids were at fault. He simply was saying they have not been instilled with DISAPLINE needed to succeed on a CONSISTENT basis. That failure is almost completely on the entire development process for a player, from their mother’s womb up to playing at Area 51.
Anyone can have talent. Anyone can show flashes of that talent. Look what happened with Edwin Jackson…he was rushed and now he is essentially worthless. It is also happening to Dontrelle Willis. At some point if someone with talent is not mentored they will being to fail to live up to their potential. And look at guys like Joe Charbeneau he is a perfect example.
These, I think, were Kent’s points.
When Loney was sent down…he was physically ready. But I suspected then as well as today that there was something about his behavior as a professional ballplayer that concerned the management. Mostly since he had spent ZERO time doing what they asked and that was learn the OF. Combine that with the whole Nomar fiasco and it was likely easy to send him down. I do feel it was a mistake, but he might not have had the same level of success today if he was on the roster the whole year. We cannot say either way…all we can do is examine the FACT he is having success NOW…why? Who knows but something worked. It is argument of a child to claim absolute certain knowledge that he would have had the same success all season long. We simply CANNOT know either way. Done is done.
Anyway, Kent was also indicting management as they failed to bring these kids along early in the year for success NOW when it matters. he was not in anyway, and he was explicit about this, questioning the talent of ANYONE…save management. Management failed to slowly increase the responsibility level of each of these players.
Not sure why folks are off on a tangent over Kemp or any individual blunders…those mistakes do not matter at that level of granularity. Kent was saying this is not the time to be trying to LEARN the basics.
He also was saying that the kids are confused what is expected of them because they never were brought along as one would as each of them became more successful. As time went on they needed to be handed more responsibility…but slowly over a whole season. This prevents setting them up for failure. But the management style never built upon a players success from one day to the next. So why would these kids ever respect management…management never earn the respect or behaved in a professional fashion themselves. So that is what the kids picked up on…no good deed goes unpunished, so why worry it will not matter anyway.
That is all where LITTLE LEAGUE’s gin soaked mindset comes into play. One really does wonder if Little is taking some sort of medication that slows his thought process as no MLB manager should be this “flighty” and capricious in their lineup and in game decisions.
Sorry for rambling but it is just difficult to read comments that consistently miss the point to begin with…Kent LIKES the kids he just is PO’d at the Dodger’s management of them…and he was the only vet to have the stones to say something…and he said it in their defense not as an attack on them personally.
BTW, I know this will fall on deaf ears, but I feel better now…so as someone said FIRE LITTLE LEAGUE!!
ps: I do not like Kent as a play AT ALL…but I still feel he was right in his statement. He called nobody on the carpet and put a challenge before every team member to step up or shut up. And THAT is what management failed to provide all season long.