Team heads east, I stay West

Indeed, I’m not on this trip but I’m glad to be at home right now playing catch up and coming up with some fun ideas for the next homestand. Believe it or not, there’s a ton that goes on around here when the team is gone. I should still have lineups fairly quickly, though, as Joe Jareck, our assistant director, calls them in as soon as they’re posted in the clubhouse. 

As for yesterday’s game, it was another step in the right direction. No one is satisfied with third place, but if you’re in fourth, you have to stop at third before you aim for second and first. Four wins in five games is a nice start to rebounding from the disaster that was the previous two weeks.

Also, tomorrow is a chance to speak with a Dodger legend who many people rarely get to hear from. Jaime Jarrin will host a web chat at 2 p.m. on and questions can be submitted in both English and Spanish. He truly is the Spanish-speaking equivalent of Vin Scully and has an incredible wealth of Dodger knowledge to tap into, so be sure to log-in early and send off your questions to be answered.


  1. Roberto

    Hey Josh, I had heard that MLB has done the 2008 Schedule already but it was not yet finalized. Do you anything about this and if so, can you give us a sneak preview. I would be interesting in knowing the inter-league match-ups. Thanks.


    Hey guys,

    Is it just me? What is the rationale in replacing a struggling .300 hitter who plays great defense with a .180 hitter with limited defensive range. I don’t get it.

    It must be the same reasoning for not using one of the best left handed pinch hitters of all time Sat. night with runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out and a .180 double play machine coming up…

    I’m sorry, but any wins the Dogers are getting are in SPITE of Little, not because of his brilliant moves.

    I don’t know how much more of this garbage Loney can take.


    Josh–I second that request for a schedule, but there should never, ever be interleague play.

    In addition to the fact that its clearly illegal under Rule 2.00 and Rule 6.10 of the Rules of Baseball, it has also severely hurt us in the pennant race. Here’s the standings without the illegal-league play:

    NL West

    Team W L GB

    Arizona 63 47 —

    San Diego 60 48 2

    Dodgers 59 50 3.5

    Colorado 53 52 7.5


    NY Mets 62 46 Leads East

    Atlanta 61 48 —

    San Diego 60 48 0.5

    Dodgers 59 50 2

    Philly 57 51 3.5

    Colorado 53 52 6.0

    Milwaukee 55 54 6.0

    Chicago 55 55 6.5


    To add on to the us versus AZ, the one thing I’ve noticed is not that their young players are better, but that they’ve been handled better. AZ’s players were promoted agressively (ours were left in the minors long than needed to be or blocked), theirs were given prominent spots in the lineup and expected to thrive (ours plugged into the 7th and 8th spots until very recently and expected to fail or shuffled in and out of the lineup) theirs were give the leeway to work out of their struggles (ours replaced in the lineup by roster fodder). I don’t care how much time Grady has spent the minors, he cannot manager young players.


    Scott, if your gonna keep the tomato and sweeny on this team your gonna have to give them ABs sometimes to keep them fresh… and im sorry but i totally disagree with you that we win inspite of Grady.


    jspeck what AZ does is very risky although so far it has paid off. If you look at what Bobby Cox has done over the years its ease his young players into the majors starting in the 7 and 8 spots not just throw them into the middle and say go get it done. Grady was a skipper in the braves minor league system and he is bringing their philosophy( which has worked over the years) to us.


    yeah I think what AZ is doing is risky for NOW but not for later when those players have more experience and a show of confidence from their manager. You can’t really say anything we have done has “worked” when we’re sitting 6.5 games out with
    the highest payroll and at least as good a farm system as anyone in the division. But Ned has made some of these decisions too so its not all on Grady at all.


    sorry swood, but saenz does not NEED ab’s to keep fresh. Many Mota never played in the field the later part of his career to get ab’s.

    Grady lost that game Saturday night by bungling several oportunities to get Loney or Sweeney in the game to hit for Saenz, who as Lasorda used to say, “couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat.”

    Well, we finished 1 game out of the playoffs, but dammit, Olmedo is a fresh as the morning dew!

    Complete BS.


    please do not put grittle and bobby cox in the same breath again. J. Francouer has been in the middle. Chipper has batted in the middle from day one. K.Johnson batted lead off the whole first half a second year player that missed all of last season with an injury.


    hey diehard hows it goin big buddie. did i tell you in an AAU game I got hit by a pitch in my hand and broke three bones in my hand. All of those guys started in the 7 and 8 holes and as they proved themselves they moved up in the lineup, which is what Grady is doing now.


    jspelk i don’t think the reason we are 6.5 out is because our young players were hitting down in the lineup and AZ’s young players were hitting in the middle. Lately most of you guys have liked Grady’s lineups anyway. By the way just FYI for anyone who doesn’t already know Vick pleaded guilty to dogfighting charges.

  12. Roberto

    Hey leekfink, I agree with you about interleague. The only reason I’m asking is because I want to know if the Dodgers are scheduled to play at Yankee Stadium. I want to go if that happens and I would like to plan early.



    In the LA Times today Kemp even said he got nothing to hit in the 8 hole and now batting 3rd with Kent protecting him he’s seeing more fastballs.

    I can’t believe how you east right out of Grady’s hand.


    chipper never started in the 7 or 8 hole. Plus it didn’t take a year and a half to move up in the line up. This is the second year these guys are up here right?

    I sent you an e-mail I saw your post. That’s a bummer, you got to shake it off and get ready for your high scool season. try to stay positive injuries happen.


    Scott what’s your point about Kemp? That was a smart move by Grady. I didn’t see any of you guys suggest that. You all wanted Ethier there.


    We’ve been screaming for Kemp to bat higher all year. I thought it fit right in to what diehard was saying.

    It was smart, but late by Grady, and Saenz or Shea batting cleanup is not smart but senility.


    diehard I didn’t get your e-mail. I’ll be ready by the high school season. You guys complain so much about the lineups Grady can’t throw out a lineup that makes EVERYONE happy. The lineup isn’t why we lose. Having Tomko and Hendrickson start games is why we lose. Also having Roberto Hernandez come out of the pen is why we lose. It’s managements fault that we’re in 3rd place 100 times more then its Grady’s fault.


    like i said…

    u can’t blame it all to grady putting some stupid lineup…

    this team is hard to figure out w/o a power bat…

    and the fact that there are different heroes every game…

    u don’t know who is going to put some runs….


    The inconsistent line ups has everything to do with our inconsistent offense. Not many teams have a combo of broxton and Saito to come and close the door. We have more overall talent than any team in the west. We should be at least 5 games up.


    O my god diehard you are killing me! We don’t have a lineup that can score the 6 or 7 runs Tomko and Hendrickson give up every game. The Rockies have more young and overall talent then us. The only thing we have thats better then them is Penny and the back end of our bullpen. It’s a miracle that we have more wins then them right now.


    If we had Clint Hurdle as our manager we’d be competing with the Giants for last place right now!!!!!


    Swood you are right about the pitching and mgmt., but Grady’s love affair with Saenz needs to end. Can’t he tell that he’s lost it? It has nothing to do with freshness.

    I was at Friday’s game and Stultz was awesome. Hendrickson did fairly well in relief on Sat. and that’s where he belongs.

    I gave Grady the benefit of the doubt for more than a season, but now all I have is doubt.


    Saenz had twice as many ABs at this time last year and three times as many ABs at this time two years ago.


    the rockies have no pitching and no bullpen. Lowe and Bills are better than anyone they have. I didn’t even mention Beimel and Saenz who has been doing respectable.The have Holliday a that’s it. I’ll take Martin over anyone they have. I’ll take Loney over anyone they have. I’ll take Kent and Furcal. Pierre is better than Tavarez how is it that they have more talent?


    I’m serious tha Rockies do not have more talent than the Dodgers. I’m sorry there is no way.


    i finally figure things out about grady…
    at first i was angry yes! coz of stupid lineup…

    but u see… he is trying to send some message to his players…

    he is putting saenz cleanup maybe becoz he is trying to challenge his players…

    like if u are not going to contribute i will put this fat *** man in clean up spot…

    it’s a long shot… but alot of people are like that…

    so i wont be suprise if i was right…

    alot of us think that grady is a quiet man…

    yes he is… but action speaks louder than words.!!!


    They have better starting pitching right now. Francis is an ace. Cook is a solid 2. Fogg is a respectable 3. They have two very good rookies who kill our 4 and 5 starters. Our pen is better but they lead the majors in fielding percentage and we are 2nd to last. They are better at every position except catcher and 2B.


    Hey pierreeastmeetswest – I sent you an e-mail (if yours is a good address, that is).




    IMO the Padres only have Young and Peavy and a terrible offense. 2 out of the 5 games they have to throw out there Hensley and Germano. When we’re on we can score runs with the best of them. If the lineup stays consistantly, with the occasional differences:








    Hillenbrand/LaRoche/Nomar etc…

    We can make a serious run, even with Tomko and Stults pitching. With side players contributing, Martinez and Saenz who may actually be coming around, it does make a huge difference. With September callups, that alone may give us the necessary push. Just the possible inclusion of Delwyn Young, Abreu, and LaRoche to give these guys a day off will help. We need to pass San Diego before even talking division title. But, we can do it and I really do believe that. But we need to take down San Diego before I truly can get excited about it.


    Helton is not better than Loney. Hawpe is hitting .185 against left handed pitching.

    Francis 13-6 4.38 ERA 126 K’s

    Penny 14-3 2.59 ERA 119 K’s

    edge Penny

    Cook 8-7 4.12 ERA 61 K’s

    Lowe 9-11 3.45 ERA 113 K’s 3CG

    edge Lowe

    Fogg 7-8 4.82 ERA 70 K’s

    Bills 7-4 3.63 ERA 96 K’s

    edge bills

    numbers don’t lie plus our bakend bullpen


    Diehard Helton leads the majors in pitches per AB. Hawpe is second in the league in 2 out RBI’s. Lowe is a losing pitcher cook isn’t. other then broxton and saito their pen is better. They have a very good lineup we don’t.


    wow alex how I would love to see what that line up could do every day. Plus how it improves our defense.


    pitches per at bat who cares. He has no pop Loney makes like 15 million less has a higher average with more range. Lowe might be a losing pitcher but he has more wins. Plus anyone will tell he had a lot of bad breaks with our incosistent line ups. I don’t think anyone has been hurt more than Lowe having gonzo and pierre out there. He’s a groundball pitcher they take away a lot of double plays. I I’ll take Kemp over a .185 hitter any day.


    I would take Penny over Francis, Lowe over Cook, Bills over Fogg, Morales looks good and Jimenez is solid too. Our bullpen beats them hands down.

    First Base goes to Helton for now

    Second Base – Kent

    Shortstop – Really close because of the inflation of Coors Field, but I give the edge to Furcal, though it could go either way Tulowitski is very good

    Third Base – Atkins easy

    Left Field – Holliday

    Center Field – If Tavares were healthy, him, by a little, though Pierre has been great since the break and made a huge catch yesterday that shockingly wasn’t talked about

    Right Field – Hawpe

    Catcher – Martin

    Good pitching beats good hitting when we have our best facing them we beat them. When we don’t they bash us. They have enough offense to beat any team, but they’ll never contend until they have a solid rotation that will only come from within the system.


    Please can someone tell me the name of the third baseman for the LA Dogers 1969-70 season…Thank You DEB


    Well I agree the Rocks pitching is shaky outside of Francis and their BP is awful. Cook is on the DL, and Fogg is NOT a respectable anything, they were going to release him earlier in the year, it was between him and Kim. Helton is a great hitter, even though he plays in Coors. The guy who doesnt hit well outside of Coors is Holliday. 1.139 OPS at Coors and .811 away! If Loney ever turned into anything resembling Helton I would be ecstatic. Helton has been underrated because people don’t think he deserved his ridiculous contract, but he’s still very very good and a gold glover too. CO could be stacked if Jimenez and Morales turn into something and Francis keeps getting better. But for this year, they’re not doing anything.

    I’ll give credit for Grady tinkering around with the lineup even though its like a couple months due. He’s still a veterans manager and nothing is going to convince me otherwise when he starts people for no other reason than that they are old.


    swood i don’t agree with you that the rockies are a much talented team than the dodgers…

    specially on pitching…

    Lowe has been great but he is not getting any run support…

    his record should have been…


    the dodgers clearly struggled in mid-july to the first 2 weeks of august… but that doesn’t mean they don’t have enough talent…


    Lowe isn’t completetly healthy cook is so I take Cook. Plus you guys forgot to mention their four and 5 starters kill us. They don’t have a Roberto Hernandez in their pen. I think that the pens are pretty close. Their lineup beats ours hands down. The pitching though is pretty close. diehard did you send the e-mail again?


    Lowe isn’t completetly healthy cook is so I take Cook. LOL

    Hey little buddy last time out Lowe 7 IP no runs.

    Cook last time out oops he didn’t have one he’s on the DL!! LOL

    I’m at work Iget home at 3:30 my time I’ll resend it then.


    NL Ranks: the rockies are 2nd in runs we are 11th. we are 3rd in ERA they are 7th. The reason we have a better record then them is simple: Grady Little.



    i thought we are talking about dodgers and rockies…

    why is it little again…

    we are in 3rd becoz we beat the **** out of the rockies talented team that ur saying… LOL


    We beat the **** out of the rockies because of Grady. He is in my opinion one of the best managers in the NL behind legends like LaRussa and Cox.


    NL Ranks:

    LA- 6th in avg

    AZ- 15th

    SD- 16th





    reason were behind them grittle!!!


    hold on swood…

    im not saying grady is the worst…

    we beat the rockies becoz this team has the thing for winning… they all have hearts! yeah becoz grady did the right thing yesterday…

    but it’s not just about numbers…

    that’s why numbers sickens me…

    winning a ball game is all about wanting to win…


    NOOOO!!!!! You look at average because the dodgers rank higher in average then they do runs and you know it. Come on diehard admit it you know I’m right about the Rockies having more talent and Grady being the difference.


    i know ur hero is grady…

    but that’s all about it…

    u don’t win games becoz of ur managers coz they are not the one playing…

    again u win ball games if u really want to win…

    numbers lie!

    look at AZ…


    the manager manufactures runs. If your telling me we are better hitters but we can’t score runs I put that on the manager. Thanks for proving my point.


    the managers increases the chance for a team to win ball games…

    but they are not the one accountable for a win…


    No the reason our average rank is higher then our run total rank is because we are 2nd to last in the majors in homers. It has nothing to do with the manager.


    when you bat Olmedo fifth and Sweeney third. You keep playing gonzo over Ethier your accountable!


    No diehard that is managements fault for putting those guys on the team. Grady is just trying to get them ABs.


    If he doesn’t get them ABs it will look like management spent all that money on nothing. Grady is handcuffed.


    the Rockies rank 10th in Homeruns yet lead the league in runs explain that. You don’t need HR to score runs


    swood, tou’re right. Grady is in the same class as those other two drunken *****.

    Any other manager would have 5 or 6 WS titles managing the Braves and Cardinals and A’s by now instead of 2 total between them.


    If my job is on the line I could care less about at bats.I play the best nine. You said Saenz had fewer at bats last year, why play him so much. .180 5 months into the season is no fluke.


    *3 total.

    Swood, are you Mrs Grady Little or something or Grady Boy Jr?

    What makes you think he is so great let alone useful?

    BTW, I really liked Grady in that Narnia movie as the lamp post.


    yes grady is accountable…

    coz we still win ballgames….

    it’s not that we are in the last place rayt?

    we might have our own view of lineups…

    but we can’t be sure if we are actually right…

    grady himself is confuse on putting lineups…

    coz i will say this again…

    our team is hard to figure out w/o a power bat…

    every games there are different heroes…

    u’ll never know who is going to get hot and going to put some runs…


    are you telling me havin Kemp,Kent,Loney,Martin,Ethier all batting together would not score more runs? I don’t even care in what order but they need to play.



    what if saenz hit a grand slam HR…?

    are u going to keep saying out loud that it’s a bad decision that grady put him there?

    what im saying is u’ll never know who is going to step up…!


    what if Juan Pierre hit a grand Slam or Kent hit 40 hr’s. WHAT IF it is what it is and that is Olmedo is hitting .180


    dude what are u saying…

    all im saying is even if a player is hitting far behind the expectations he can still hit…

    it’s just how and when to do it…

    u have a serious hate sickness with little i think!


    well my take is that heading into the season our GM gave our manager 8 starting pitchers to choose from.Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf, Tomko, Kuo, Hendu, Bills

    5 are still pitching.

    Out of those 5 only 2 are pitching well. Schmidt, Wolf, Kuo lost to injuries. Not one suprise out of the three.

    Our GM gave us Pierre instead of power

    We have twice as many errors as the rockies and padres and and that is only the balls we catch. Our GM apparently does not value defense as there is little Grady can do to teach a 35 year old man how to throw..

    The middle of our diamond has 43 errors (Furcal, Kent ,Martin, Pierre) the d-backs have 27. The padres 24.

    Our GM gave us 3/4/5 hitters who were old and past thier primes.

    Only 1 is still a middle of the order bat.

    The other two played themselves out of the middle of the order by the All Star Break.

    The one guy still in the cleaup spot isnt having a clean up hitter type year. I would guess that all possible playoff potential teams have a more productive cleaup hitter then Jeff Kent.

    So Grady has done a heck of job if you ask me. My only gripe with Grady is his treatment of Ethier.


    You don’t hit .180 all season and then suddenly turn it on.

    At least Ramon did have back problems and since he’s only 34, he actually could improve the rest of the way. But he’s not a great hitter to begina with and is mainly kept around for his defensive flexibility.

    But Olmedo is fat and old and has lost bat speed.

    Grand slam, HAHAHAHAHAHAH!


    Somehow it seemed appropriate that on a day when Betemit drove in 4 runs for the Yankees to equal the Dodger team total for the day that Proctor would allow a late-inning HR that almost turned a victory into a defeat. Is any other commentary on the stupidity of that trade really necessary? BTW, Betemit is batting .303 for NY, who must be really laughing over the fast one they pulled on Ned.


    My bad guys I dind’t know Colletti handed grady the line up and told him to stick with it no matter what.
    Your right I do hate Little with a passion, that’s just because I still feel we have the most talent in the west.


    I’m saying a guy hits .180 for 5 months its not an accident. One month maybe but 5 months. And then to put him in the middle of the line up when he plays there’s no excuse.


    diehard I kinda agree with you and I kinda don’t. For me I feel like our GM put Grady into the mess he is in and that the idea of us having to rest our clean up hitter, when smack dab in the middle of the pennant race when playing the team above us tells you whats wrong with the dodgers.


    Hendu, Tomko, Sweeny, Hillenbran, Ramon, Nomar, gonzo, saenz, schmidt, wolf, kent…all these guys are past their primes. all these guys were brought in as vets..thats what bugs me.


    How about Shea batting 4th after his first good game in 3 or 4 years…

    If Ramon would have gotten 4 hits yesterday, would he be batting 4th tomorrow?

    Loney goes hitless in 1 or 2 games and goes to the bench so .180 hitters can pick up the slack…

    Help me Kevin Kennedy you’re our only hope…


    i don’t get some of you…

    if the team lose u all are dissapoinetd… and u have the rayt too…

    but when the team is winning u have got to stop saying stupid things…

    ur just trying to break the moral streak!

    u need to clap ur hands and not clap ur mouths!


    I’m not the one who screwed with the lineup and put Olmedo in on Saturday in the midst of a 3 game win streak!


    haha scott, funny stuff. Grady does put much too much emphasis on a couple of games in making decisions. Shea was released by the Angels for a reason, the Pods too. The Yanks were desperate for a 1b and they didnt want him. What does that tell you? But again, most the failure of this team is on the roster construction and that is on Ned. Perhaps he feels betrayed by the veterans who have underperformed but in certain cases like nomar you could see the decline coming. I don’t think he does his homework when it comes to looking at injuries/age related problems.


    hey van i do clap, but I want to clap more often.

    I think the frustration here is that a lot of us realize that the team could be SO much more productive if just given a chance.

    You have to be honest and call a spade a spade or you’re just living in a fantasy world.


    Thank You very much alex41592 I appreciate the time you took to send me the answers. Thank You….sorry fella’s I am a Twins fan, can’t help it, someone has to love em” 🙂


    Look, Olmedo had some good seasons filling in for us, but are we trying to win games now or are we paying him back for all the good he did in years’ past? I don’t think Ned tells Grady who to play, but I think they both do a little naked dance whenever Grady slips Saenz into the lineup…


    scott that’s the point…

    no one in the team is contributing when they are all struggling…

    so grady is pushed to use some of the players who aren’t playing so well…

    it’s basically a challenge for some of his players that should be contributing…

    he is sending message to those people who should be contributing…


    what message is he sending Ethier or Loney when he benches them. That no matter how much you produce you won’t move up(Ethier) or if you do produce you will get moved down(Loney)


    James Loney is 3 for his last 21, so I understand why he’s batting seventh. It’s not like Grady suddenly decided to bench him for the pure fun of it, he’s been struggling but he’ll come out of it. It was also his decision to bat Kemp third, which has turned out to be a terrific decision. If Ethier batted fifth consistantly Grady would have found himself quite the lineup IMO. As much as Ethier deserves to bat fifth, Loney does deserve to be moved down because of his recent slump.


    I agree alex I would love if grady was thinking like that.Point is your not benching Loney for Olmedo or Sweeney.


    go on then say it to his face…
    the thing is that issue is all said and done…

    when ethier is on a hot zone he has not been a factor…

    why? coz everyone is struggling…

    right now ethier is again a little spotty while everyone is hitting better..

    i like ethier too… i want him everyday listed on that lineup… and i think u got ur wish…

    ethier is actually almost playing everyday if im ryt…

    but u still need to play gonzo…

    u can’t do alot about that…

    so just support what’s in the table…


    OK I am satisfied if tomorrow’s line up is:










    i think gonzo will play tom…

    i just have the feeling that gonzo will play…

    but i do love that lineup… i hope that’ll be the lineup tom…


    Last year, when Ethier disappeared off the face of the earth, he was benched for a hotter than blue blazes Marlon Anderson. Though Ethier should have been allowed to work out of his funk (and I know there were claims of injury or whatever), it actually benefitted us to play Marlon. I doubt Ethier could have duplicated his numbers. This year, benching Loney for any combination of Seanz/Sweeney is inexcusable. They won’t even produce replacement level numbers. This is what I don’t understand about Grady—he decides that Loney is good enough hitter to bat third, and then like a week later he can’t crack the lineup? Grady needs to understand that young players lack consistency. If he want to give those who produce more playing time and others less than by all means, but when your alternatives are seanz/sweeney i think we would be better served going with upside.


    The Dodgers would have to go 24-14 the rest of the way to match last year’s record. What do you guys think? Can we pull it off? We haven’t had a 24-12 stretch all year long.


    James Loney is 3 for his last 21, so I understand why he’s batting seventh.

    So when Kent was 4 for 25 this season you understood why he was still batting clean up?

    you don’t have to answer.


    RAMONE in last night’s game proves to most of you any one with a bat in his hands is dangerous.


    Dodger OPS leaders: top 5.

    Matt Kemp

    Jeff Kent

    Wilson Betimit

    Russell Martin

    Andre Ethier

    James Loney

    1 vet. 4 first or second year players. one guy on the yankees….


    Like Roberto I also would like a sneak preview of the 2008 schedule. Although I do not like interleague, I am interested in seeing if the Dodgers will play at Yankee Stadium one more time. I have never been to that stadium and I would like to see it before they tear it down.

    Also, do you know when they have the Women’s baseball clinic in Vero Beach? I’d like to make my plans around that time. I’ve attended the ones at Dodger Stadium and had a blast there.



    Roberto: Is this the same Roberto6 that posted in This is crzblue.


    How does the Web chat work? Can you submit questions well in advance. The reason I am asking is I can’t do that from work. I’ve tried a couple of times and it does not work. I love Jaime and Pepe although I listen mostly to Vin, Spanish is my first language. I learned the game listening to Vin.









    his year by year OBP. If he got on at a .350 clip like he used to then no problem. But to get on at .330 with no power is a problem.


    The article linked in
    Posted by: | August 20, 2007 05:07 PM

    is the worst. article. of. all. time. It is SO WRONG that I would have to write an equal length or longer essay to criticize it fully, but here is the bottom-line counterargument: WHEN YOU HAVE A LOW OBP, YOU ARE MAKING OUTS AT VERY HIGH RATE. Making outs 2/3 of your plate appearances is bad. The NL as a whole, including pitchers, has an OBP in the low .330s every season in the 21st century (2001 – present), therefore Juan Pierre 2005-2007 is a below-average batter, because of how easy it is to get him out, for ALL position players.

    Even worse, he almost never sits, so he makes outs at that rate EVERY GAME!


    Interesting article about Pierre by Addcox today. When I was At Coors Field a couple of week ends ago, JP ( and Garciaparra ) were the only guys on the field still getting prepared for the game. This was after infield and BP had been taken, just before the game started.This just backs up JP’s rep as one of the hardest working players around. I don’t think he deserves much of the criticism he gets on this blog, in fact it has become so tiresome I rarely get past the line up lately. But I thought the article was good and just wanted to say I support the guy. Like it or not he’s ours.


    The problem is he’s trying to deal with overcoming a .311 OBP in the first half of the season. Which will bury his overall OBP for the entire season. His second half OBP is .358, not so surprisingly. Since he’s been a second half player his entire career. But, never fear we win 4 of 5 and we can talk about Juan Pierre again instead of other important issues.


    Look for Tomko to get roughed up in Tuesday’s game in Philly. The Phillies lead the NL in runs and BA. Ryan Howard is career 4-5 w/2HR against Tomko and Jimmy Rollins is 7-13 w/HR career against tomko. Tomko is a fly ball pitcher in a ballpark that gives up alot of HR’s. Look for balls to fly out of Citizens Bank Park. I think to win we’re gonna have to score atleast 7 or 8 runs depending how long Grady leaves Tomko in for.


    diehard if you’re reading this I got your email and I read a couple articles about you. Where is Chaffey located?


    alex… its true that his first half OBP will bring down his OBP for the year… but you can’t just ignore 82 games. It’s what he did, it’s Juan Pierre. sure, it’s lower than what you’ll expect, but he’s hot right now and his 2nd half OBP is just .358. I’d say he’ll be at .335 for the rest of this contract, which i think is reasonable to predict considering his last few years.

    Also, Juan Pierre is an important issue because he takes up 700 of our ABs.


    swood, you need to stop defending Grady, to chime in on what you said above about us not hitting HRs: the Angels have 88 HRs to our 90 yet have outscored us 619 to 547 while only out hitting us by .011. How do you explain that? I can, Mike Scioscia manufactures runs and continually puts on hit n runs, bunts, steals etc. Since we don’t have a bopper it is neccessary for us to do the same things yet Grady refuses. When the Angels vets are struggling (Figgins, Anderson) he moves them to a lower part of the lineup to figure it out, on the same token when their kids are hitting (Willits, Kendrick) they get moved up towards the top of the lineup. A good manager doesn’t care about hurting veteran’s feelings, he cares about winning PERIOD.


    Notable players with a lower OBP since the All-Star Break than Juan Pierre, since it seems to be such an important number:

    Jose Reyes

    Willie Harris

    Chris B. Young

    Corey “I wear my sunglasses at night” Hart

    Kenny Lofton

    David Eckstein

    Grady Sizemore

    And even Ichiro’s OBP is only .005 higher than Pierre. Since you all seem to make such a big deal out of Pierre inability to get on base. Maybe you should take a step back and look at what he has actually done since the break, which to me means more than his awful first half, which were admittedly awful. He’s never had power, nor an arm. But for what he can do and what he’s being knocked for. He’s doing better than some premiere lead off men in the game. But, as always take it as you will.


    as someone who watches a bit of the Angels, I’d have to disagree with you about Anderson. He usually hits cleanup or fifth even though he’s been awful this year, ahead of Matthews or Kotchman who are both superior hitters. But on the others things, you are correct. Scioscia does an excellent job managing the small ball game. Grady couldn’t hold a candle to him.


    Im sorry, I hate to keep harping on the Pierre issue, but how can you possibly say his post break numbers mean more than the entire first half? that’s like 82 games of ABs vs. like 40. (Im estimating and may be off by a few games)


    for someone like pierre who has no power, OBP is extremely important, otherwise he is useless. some of the other players mentioned, including reyes, sizemore, and young, can contribute with power as well as obp. So to say that pierre has been playing better than those players merely b/c his obp is higher is incorrect.


    No you’re right the first half does count and means from a numbers standpoint just the same. But, if you’re going to judge a man by his first half, the least you can do is wait until his superior second half is over and judge the final product. That’s all…he’s a proven second half player and you want to judge him from his play in the first half when he historically performs underwhelmingly.


    jspelk… agreed. Juan Pierre is playing well for his standards… those other players mentioned are far superior in their overall baseball skills. A higher OBP helps Pierre’s value a lot, and makes him a little easier to have around, but those other players are by far much better than he.


    Of course if I wanted to compare OPS, Pierre would lose by a mile. He’s not that type of player. I never compared him overall, but the OBP numbers are moreso for the people who knock his OBP.


    It would be stupid and completely false to place Pierre with power numbers, hence why I wrote that in my post. The whole debate is OBP, that the whole point to my post. Pierre can only help if he’s on base and he’s getting on base!


    alex, that is a valid point. It really takes an entire year to judge a players value. Some of you who may have already written off Andy LaRoche because of 39 ABs should take note of that.


    I also wouldn’t consider Lofton, Eckstein, and Harris power hitters they’re on playoff hopeful teams as well and are getting on base far less than Pierre.


    “Some of you who may have already written off Andy LaRoche because of 39 ABs should take note of that.”

    Completely agree and I cannot wait until he gets healthy to prove that to all of us in the big leagues.


    I didn’t realize we payed Pierre just to have a good month. If i would have no that i never would have complained about him…


    Josh, are the Dodgers planning anything to celebrate Roger (The Peanut Man)Owens’ 50 years with the Dodgers next year?


    Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a more biased, defensive tone to the coverage provided by Gurnick and Addcox on

    I used to respect Gurnick’s even keel and tell-it-like-it-is coverage of the Dodgers, but this year it seems to me that he’s been going out of his way to spout the company line and defend unpopular players/decisions.


    Is it Gurnicks job to sprout the company line, or just cover the team? I mean I know he’s on the website, but he’s not a PR guy. Someone fill me in.


    Hey guys,if the Milwaukee Brewers win tonight,which looks like they will, We,The Los Angeles Dodgers will only be five(5) games out of the lost column.Arizona, is starting to get nervous, because the Dodgers are coming after them!This all started when Superman, Jeff Kent got hurt,and Arizona swept us.There was just something about the way Arizona did it that rubbed me and I’m sure the fans and the team the wrong way!Because, we were really the first place team!Arizona, we may have a large mountain to climb,but when we get to the top,they’ll be no room for you!Beware Arizona, The Mighty Los Angeles dodgers are coming for you!Ain’t no stopping us now!


    If someone writes an article that disagrees with your point of view, it’s not necessarily “spouting the company line”…it could be that they have an honestly different assessment of a situation than you do, based on a different interpretation of values and numbers.


    Charris where have you been all day I said that at like noon… ya the angels have scored more runs then us but you have to remember they have a DH. You can’t blame everything on Grady.


    Lol @ ndeschenes…to me, when you post, it’s like a monkey just walked a puppy into a room, gave me sunflowers, and then a koala crapped a rainbow in my brain. So postive my friend…thanks for the cheerleading.


    Diehard did you get drafted? It’s not Grady’s fault, if we don’t win the division it will be on managements shoulders.


    Arizona has been one of the streakiest teams in the majors all year. They are due for a losing streak and hopefully this Milwakee win is the start.


    Puppyhead,Thanks for the encouragement!We all know that our Los Angeles Dodger Team deserves a better fate, but now they have to prove that they are the real first place team the hard way!They will do it, showing the courage and honor of wearing the Los Angeles Dodger uniform with pride!The best is yet to come!Ain’t no mountain high enough!


    Addcox went on and on about Pierre’s leading the team in hits, having a long games-played streak, etc.

    Failing to mention that Juan Pierre is quite possibly MLB’s leader in outs made over the course of the past several years is not what I would call an ‘honestly different assessment’ on the part of Addcox.


    Well, since Pierre bashers on here usually mention the outs and without mentioning his negatives, I’d say that’s an ‘honestly different assessment’ from what you find around here. Everyone writes, whether blog or article, from their preconceived notions on a topic. Doesn’t mean this guy is “spouting the company line.”


    I never said that Gurnick was touting the company line in that article, just asking others opionons on whether he does it in general. The Addcox guy *does* go out of his way to defend pierre despite his obvious shortcomings that not even the FO can deny.


    The Braves sure look good with Teixeira… two more HRs today already.

    Posted by: | August 20, 2007 06:11 PM



    Braves before Teixeira: 56-51, 3.5 GB the Mets, 1.5 GB in WildCard

    Braves with Teixeira: 10-8 (66-59 overall), 5 GB, 1 GB in WC

    (Tex is a stud, but the price was too high.)


    Im sorry, I hate to keep harping on the Pierre issue, but how can you possibly say his post break numbers mean more than the entire first half? that’s like 82 games of ABs vs. like 40. (Im estimating and may be off by a few games)

    Posted by: | August 20, 2007 06:14 PM



    The numbers cited were pre-All-Star break (89 games for the Dodgers) and post-AS, 35 games.



    I’m willing to judge Juan Pierre based on his career:

    3 1/3 seasons: >= .353 OBP

    3 3/4 seasons: <= .332 OBP

    More disturbing, 2005-7 OBP: .326, .330, .324

    JP is now 30 years old, so I fear he is in permanent decline.

    On the plus side, he has a career high SB% this year, so far – 84%, which is good enough to be worth the risk of trying it.


    I am a Grady Little defender and I have noticed a defensive tone to Gurnick’s work lately. (but who knows why)
    The Pierre made me angry-nothing about trying to get more walks from a player who swings at almost anything with 2 strikes. I found his attitude annoying-it is what it is.

    Most important:What was the point of moving Penny up if Tomko will start on Tuesday?

    Lowe should start Tuesday(4 days rest),Stults on Wednesday (Phillies 20-22 against LH starters,Mets 22-17),Billingsley Thursday, Penny Friday, Tomko Saturday and Lowe Sunday.This is so obviously better.


    old fogey… haha ur just picking on my posts tonight? ha… thanks for correcting the games pre and post break… I still gotta think that the Braves would be worse off with out Tex’s 9 ATL homers so far. They’ve had renteria (who’s having a great year!) out of the lineup for most of that post-tex-trade record. Tex has picked up the slack, and we’ll see how good they are once rent returns later this week.


    I agree. Its was kind of short sighted to start Penny yesterday…yes I know he pitches well against the Rocks. But now, instead of having out best pitcher (Penny) pitch twice in two crucial series, we have Tomko pitching twice. I guess you could say you play for today and worry about tommorrow later but still, it seems to put us at a disadvatange for the next two series.


    Yeah, the only reason I don’t like it is Tomko will be pitching tomorrow and the ESPN game Sunday night, unless there’s a change. But, I’d rather have Lowe face Hamels on Wednesday than Tomko. Stults is being given the ball Saturday against the Mets because of the great game he pitched last season in Shea and his good start against them earlier in the season. I completely stand behind that move. I don’t like Tomko pitching tomorrow and Sunday, but we needed that win against the Rockies. Just get 5 innings from Tomko if he can do it and do not get greedy.

    Tomko vs. Kendrick

    Lowe vs. Hamels

    Billingsley vs. Durbin

    Penny vs. Perez

    Stults vs. Hernandez

    Tomko vs. Maine

    But it sets up Lowe, Bills and Penny vs. Washington at home.


    Roberto and dodger5_03,

    I am guessing that you guys are in New York. I lived there for three years, so did not get the Dodgers as much as I want. But don’t go to Yankee Stadium to watch them during the season.

    Dodgers v. Yankees is a great rivalry, and seeing them play eaach other is great. That’s because historically, it has been on the biggest stage there is–the World Series! Watching the Dodgers v. Yankees during the regular season is a knock-off. It cheapens the real thing.

    Go to Shea to see Dodgers v. Mets. Or hope that the Dodgers and Yankees both win the Pennant this year or next. It’s happened more than any other combination in history (10 times–nearly once every 10 years on average).


    jspelk2: “instead of having out best pitcher (Penny) pitch twice in two crucial series, we have Tomko pitching twice”

    Going into it, the Colorado series was crucial too, since they were ahead of LA. Switch one win to a loss and the Rockies would still be ahead.

    At this point, with so many teams ahead of the Dodgers, both in the NL West and in the Wild Card, all the series are crucial now, just some are a little more so than the others.

    I don’t see how Tomko survives the Philly bandbox stadium (at least it’s not in front of the home boo-birds), but Lowe’s sinker can be a very good thing there, and LA is due for a Dr. Jekyll Chad appearance.


    No, I am not in New York. i live in L.A. and have season tickets in the Top Deck. I am planning on going to New York next year to see Yankee Stadium for the first time.

    Thanks for the response. -Emma


    seriously this is the funniest headline since “Billingsley Fires Blanks”

    “Pierre not bothered with perceived OBP issues”


    thats like making a headline of “Lindsey Lohan not bothered by perceived drug abuse”


    It is now “nitty gritty” time, as the expression goes. We need to win these two series to make any impact in the standings. Within that context we’ll need to look to Tomko as much as anybody to give us two decent starts. If he can go five inning each time with no more than two or three runs given up, we have to count on scoring four or five to come away with a win. Letting Tomko go more than five usually asks for getting us too far behind to win. I hope that Grady remembers that and has the bullpen prepared.
    Lets go Blue!!!


    If Pierre was so good even to those who think he is good, there wouldn’t be theis endless debate about him. Those who think he isnt that great would shut up already because he has proven us wrong. it’s just hard to get behind rooting for a groundball to get thru. But even at his best, his stats are hollow. There wouldn’t be apologetic PR articles on written about him either. What is Nomar not available?

    He is an offense spark plug allegedly that has sparked the dodgers to one of the worst offenses in baseball. Now the apologist will say it’s not his fault that he is doing all he can and I won’t totally disagree but let’s not pretend that a low OBP and no power guy in general is a good thing. In fact, not one person here, even the biggest Pierre fan would want a team of 8 hitters who all hit like Pierre. A team with 8 hitters who hit like Ethier would be pretty good. But if Pierre dosen’t care about his OBP, maybe he should consider the impact it has on other players and not just his own feeble stats.

    Matt Kemp batted third in five of the Dodgers’ last six games and was seven for 16 with two home runs and five runs batted in.

    Manager Grady Little wouldn’t make any assurances about Kemp’s staying in that spot, but said, “You’ll see him there a lot. We like the way he’s getting after it day after day.”

    Kemp said that he was seeing better pitches to hit as a result of batting behind Juan Pierre and in front of Jeff Kent. Because Pierre is a threat to steal (he has 50 stolen bases), Kemp says he sees more fastballs when the center fielder is on base.

    “You get a good chance to get some RBIs,” Kemp said.


    I am trying to vote for Russell Martin for the N.L. Hank Aaron award. Can someone tell me what a contact number is? I tried my phone number but they would not accept it.


    Just got done reading Buster Olney’s discussion about the possibility of Johan Santana hitting the free agent market this winter.

    In my view, the Dodgers would be in prime position to make a big push…I’m thinking Johan for Bills, Kershaw, Kemp as a starting point.

    What do you guys think?


    u do know the dodgers doesn’t have a big bat right?
    and Kemp is the only one who has a natural power…

    why would u want him trade?


    manny, i can almost guarantee you that the Twins will not trade Santana, with the pending departure of Tori Hunter this off season, Santana will be the face of that franchise along with Joe Mauer and Morneau, Santana will be re-signed or they will at least hold on to him through next season.


    good point Kiper…

    the twins are stupid if they even think of moving Santana…

    but hey even if it is santana i wouldn’t want Kemp to be traded…


    Nope, the Dodgers cannot afford to trade Kemp or Loney without first acquiring a power bat, unless they’re being traded for another power bat.. but i don’t see it.


    He’s not talking only Kemp for Santana – he’s saying Bills, Kershaw AND Kemp for a starting point. If you were for the Twins, that would sound like a great deal – if you’re dealing those from the Dodgers you’d have to be a far bigger idiot that I even credit Colletti to be.


    We will be in prime position to make a great offer to Johan after the ’08 season because Lowe, Nomar, and Kent will all be off the payroll. I wouldn,t be suprised to see the Dodgers sign Johan for a king’s ransom. Maybe that is why Coletti is going young with our offense. Johan, Penny, Bills, Schmidt (if his surgery goes well) thats a nasty rotation.


    Kiper, I think you’re right. But then again, crazier things have happened. If he does by some miracle become available, I think the Dodgers should make a HUGE push.

    Van, I would include Kemp in a trade for Johan in a heartbeat. Pitchers like Johan come around once or twice per decade. Kemp is a wonderful prospect. But at this point, that all he is – a prospect. There is no assurance Kemp will develop into a 30-40 hr guy. And even if he was guaranteed to become such a player, I would still include him in a trade. I mean, have you looked at his numbers? UNREAL! We’re talkin about a Durable Sandy Koufax type of player here.

    I have a feeling people get to gushy with prospects.


    the dodgers need pitching yeah that’s true…!

    but if everyone in our pitching staff is healthy we don’t even need Santana or Zambrano anymore…

    we need offense…

    maybe Kemp is still called a prospect… but dude… can’t u see what he is doing…

    he can hit…

    he can even hit a HR the other way..

    that shows u power…

    and that is enough for me to believe that Kemp can hit 30-40 HR someday…

    We already have a great pitching… they are just injured…

    and the fact that bills might be the future Ace of the pitching staff…


    van, after next season our kids will be a year older and we may not even need much help offensively. Johan seems like a prime target for us at the end of ’08.


    I think that the main reason our prospects and younger players are off limits is because McCourt has intervened and made it so. He’s in the camp of preserving our prospects because he no longer trusts Colletti’s judgment on these major deals, and the Schmidt deal that backfired is responsible for that. I don’t think that he will readily forget that, nor would I if it was my money that was wasted. I think he has put Colletti on a very short leash, and I’m hopeful that if we do not make the playoffs, it will be the end of Colletti and Grady along with him, because they’re pretty much joined in everything that has been done with the team. You can’t really fire one without the other. If we don’t make the playoffs with the resources that have been allocated to this management, I think there will be the big change, and rightly so.


    from today:

    The Dodgers are extremely excited about what they see in Kershaw, whose name has been mentioned in potential trades.

    “We don’t have any interest in letting players of that character wear anything but a Dodger uniform,” said Colletti. “I saw his first start in Jacksonville a couple of weeks ago. He is going to be a real good pitcher, a big-time, big-league performer.”


    Kemp, Bills, and Kershaw would be a be a fair deal. If I were the Dodgers I’d pull the trigger. If I were the Twins, I’d ask for a bit more. Maybe Meloan , Loney, or Ethier.

    Messagebear, I don’t think you realize what a difference a guy like Johan can make. Even at the cost, having a guy like that can change the face of a franchise.

    I love Bills and Kemp; And I’m sure Kershaw won’t disappoint provided he stays healthy. But I think its worth giving up those guys for a guy like Santana.

    In the position we’re in – a young team with a number of high-level prospects – we should either go for big trades or simply wait and hope our young guys develop. If we stay conservative and make small trades, I’m afraid Colletti will slowly pick away at our farm system and all we’ll be left with is over-valued veterans and middle relievers.

    Remember Betemit!



    Kemp, bills, Kershaw is not enough for santana? and they should ask for Loney or ethier or meloan?

    ur mad!

    are u a twins fan?


    charris i agree with you…
    that we should sign Santana…

    but not trade our Future for him…

    specially Kemp!

    only a stupid manager will even try to think to trade a guy like Kemp…!


    manny, you are way off base. Johan is great but is only responsible for 20% of his team’s games. You are talking about trading quality arms that will likely make-up 40% of our games in the future along with an everyday player that has shown nothing to think that he can’t hit 40+ HRs at the big league level. Plus we’d only have Santana through the end of next year. If the Dodgers didn’t pull the trigger on Buehrle for Kemp straight up then there is no way they’d offer what you are proposing.


    i still enjoy watching the celebration of Ethier and martin at the plate when they score in the 8th inning…

    they are enjoying the game…

    and it’s fun to watch this kids show alot of emotions…


    When and if Santana becomes available (via free agency) i believe the Dodgers should definitely be in the conversation, same as with ARod. But if your talking about a trade that would include, as you say, Kemp, Bills, Kershaw and probably a few more guys, no. I don’t think our pitching situation is as bad as our offense where you need to sacrifice all these young players.


    That would be great for 09! I agree with you and Manny in the sense that Johan would be worth a big contract etc…I would go after Johan harder than A-rod myself…He is so far and above all other arms and take him out of the homerdome and into dodger stadium and the NL west. Wow….

    I would trade for him too..

    But Kemp, Bills, Broxton, Kershaw, Loney, Laroche should really be untradeable at this point. If we “tanked” this season (i don’t totally agree we have, but for argument sakes) by not trading them then no point in doing it now.


    Charris i saw what you wrote yesterday about me always defending Grady… I don’t think you should be comparing us to the Angels they are in a different league and they have a DH where we are hitting a pitcher… it’s alot easier to manufacture runs that way.


    charris, I will think Johan will either 1) Re-sign with the Twins, or 2) Sign with the team he is traded to if he can’t re-sign with the Twins.

    The reason I say this is because I don’t think a team will trade for Johan without assurances that he’ll sign an extension (the trade cost will simply be too high).


    I think some of you guys get way to far ahead of yourselves with this ARod and Santana stuff. We should be focusing on what we can control which is this year. Anyway manny makes a pretty good point.


    I guess what people have to realize is like for example MATT KEMP….

    Jeff Kent wasn’t in the majors for 2 more full years at age 24.

    He wasnt a productive mlb player for 2 years after that..So age 26.

    Kemp is 22 right now.

    Kemps OPS + is 123.

    Jeff Kent wasnt 30 until he beat that and were talking about an MVP and hall of famer here.


    Are you serious manny. Kemp,Bills,Kershaw and if they want more we’ll throw in Ethier or Loney! No Way what Johan will pitch everyday? Plus we’ll only have him for one year and then be a free agent.


    It depends how you look at it jungar but who do you like better Kemp or Ethier? I know Grady likes Kemp better…


    Kemp,Ethier,Loney, Bills, and Martin are no longer prospects they are big leaguers and the heart and soul of our franchise. Willing to trade them for a pitcher?


    hey diehard hows it goin big buddy. By the way when I was looking you up on google I found what I thought was a picture of you do you have an e-mail address that goes your real and did you get drafted?


    why swood?
    do u like ethier more?

    i honestly love the way Kemp plays the game…

    he is a player who can hit 30-40 HR and also hit for average…

    coz of his natural power he just need to kiss that bat to the ball…

    he just need to adjust… and that is what he is doing rayt now…


    manny, apparently we agree with our organization because if we we’re gonna ship off talent, we’d have Teixera and
    Buehrle right now.

    swood, even with the DH, we are out homering the Angels. You need to watch the way their offense goes. They have an extra hitter in their line-up and they play small ball at least twice as much as us and we have a pitcher in our line-up. Grady is an AL manager that waits for the 3-run homer and that is not congruent to the way our team needs to play.


    2 more examples:

    Mike Piazza had 21 game MLB catching expierence when he was at Martin’s age now. Martin has 239 games. Piazza was ROY.

    Loney will be Karros age next year when Karros won his ROY.


    I think Kemp has a better upside but I think Ethier is the better major league player today. I don’t know though I like both of them alot.


    unfortunately I did not get drafted:( I had a few try outs but I never got offered anything. Went and played in Mexico for a year. But I came back to finish school. If that pic is me making a diving attempt that’s me. I never received the e-mail you sent. Re send it and I’ll check it when I get home.


    First of all Charris I watched the entire anaheim yankees game last night and I was impressed with the way they went first to third on every single but you still shouldn’t be comparing us to them its just not fair.



    I was against trading for Teixera and Buehrle…The reason, they are not superstars like Johan or A-rod.

    I would only pay a high price for absolute studs. Tex and Buehrle are no Johan or Arod’s.


    Swood. Kemp for sure. I think he has rare ability. Like Puljos ability. Cabrerra ability etc..

    I think Ethier is a better player RIGHT NOW though. More consistent. I am dating myself a little but kemp reminds me of Andre Dawson and Ethier remains me of Mark Grace.


    No diehard its not of you driving its of an attorney from Mexico with your name and that persons email is your name… is that you?


    Why can’t we be compared to the Halos. They lost Colon only difference I see is M.Scioccia is a T.LaSorda prodigy.


    that dude who got the winning hit last night for the angels….he has a funky batting stance. it was pretty cool….


    Because diehard they are in a different league facing different pitchers and they have a DH… the game is different over in the AL.


    Thanks Van. I know I get numbers heavy…but sometimes (not always) it can add perspective.

    Like for example the Braves made a good trade right? They gave up some talent but Texira has been great right? 7 bombs a bunch of RBI for ATL.

    Since arriving, to no fault of his…the Braves have LOST 2 games in the standings…thats gotta be frustrating..


    Sweet, by any chance did you ever meet the Magallanes brothers? I played ball at Harbor JC, and then Chapman.


    DH or no DH you have to go first to third, know when to move runners, put runners in motion and no one does that better than the halos.


    Let me ask you guys a question.

    Do you guys really believe Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Bills, Kershaw, LaRoche, and Meloan will ALL pan out and become the STUDS you guys think they will be.

    I’m inclined to agree with the percentages and conclude that some of those players won’t; be due to injury, immaturity, or simply not being that good after all.

    There is an inherent risk in waiting for players to develop. Some of you guys act like its a foregone conclusion that these players will be great.

    In trading for Johan and giving up some of these guys you’re essentially trading the “prospect” of good young players for the “certainty” of having a Hall of Fame ace at the top of your staff.

    I for one, would be willing to take that risk.


    yeah manny but you’re saying that we’ll ship off 2 young MLB studs with our top pitching prospect in the minors for Johan, again if we didn’t trade Kemp for Buehrle straight up, then no way we try a deal like that.


    I played LA harbor in the playoffs in 2000. I don’t know the magallanes. I went to RCC and redshirted then I went to Chaffey.


    O my god diehard you are missing the point. Just because they do all of those things and Grady doesn’t that doesn’t make Grady a bad manager. He just has a different philosophy.


    Manny–We’re not in love with prospects. We’re in love with major league baseball players. Neither Billingsley nor Kemp qualify as rookies this year–their rookie year was last year. Moreover, Bills has been up since June ’06, and is never going back to Las Vegas. Kemp has been up and down this year, but considering he’s got the best batting average and slugging percentage on the team, and is grouped with four other players for the best On-Base Percentage (unsurprisingly, Loney, Ethier, Kent, and Martin are all between .358 and .364), I would say that Matt Kemp will never see Las Vegas again.

    You’re trade ideas for Santana do not make sense. First of all, the Twins will only trade him if they think they can’t re-sign him. Why trade almost anyone for a guy who we would have a good shot of signing in the off-season? If the Twins can’t sign him to an extension, then expect to see him on a deadline deal next July. Whether we will be in on that depends on where we are next July.

    Does trading Kemp for Santana make sense? I would be dead-set against it because it’s much better to build a team from within. But, on paper it might make sense–a pitcher like Santana vs. a hitter like where Kemp projects, the pitcher is still more valuable. The problem is that you can’t project anyone to be an all-time great, and Kemp has HOF tools and potential, so we might be losing an upside. Throwing in Kershaw might even make sense, because he’s still unproven. I’d be against it, but I could see it. But throwing in Bills is just crazy talk. While not yet as good, Billingsley projects as a 1 or 2 starter, and is already showing that ability. So while pitching is a rarer commodity than a good hitting player like Kemp (though not the great hitter that I hope Kemp becomes), you would be dealing a cheaper but close in terms of ability pitcher, and throwing away a top big league hitter and a huge pitching prospect.

    I am all for trying to sign Santana after 2008, but there is no trade for him that works.


    I was way before that, I played there 1989, and 1990. We won state in 90, and came in third in 89.


    diehard, you played for Harbor in 2000? I played for OCC that year, didn’t you guys get knocked off by Cypress that year?


    Manny I missed this post of yours…I couldn’t agree more with your take on these guys. I still think it would be too much for me to give up, but could understand even if they did or if you were GM you would.

    I was against trading for Teixera and Buehrle…The reason, they are not superstars like Johan or A-rod.

    I would only pay a high price for absolute studs. Tex and Buehrle are no Johan or Arod’s.


    Do you guys really believe Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Bills, Kershaw, LaRoche, and Meloan will ALL pan out and become the STUDS you guys think they will be.

    I’m inclined to agree with the percentages and conclude that some of those players won’t; be due to injury, immaturity, or simply not being that good after all

    That’s basically what my ******* match with Alex is about with Edwin Jackson and Joel Guzman. Still to early to tell!

    If you understand (u do) the precentages, then you got to play them. You can never have too many possible solid young players because as you say, who knows will work out and who wont based on injuries and mental toughness, let alone talent and opportunity.

    But our Billinsley since the all star break (that a few people here are like no way you trade him for so and so….) vs jacksons

    2-4 3.64 era bills

    2-3 2.98 era jax



    If you read my earlier post, I think the only way to get Johan is to trade for him. If the twins don’t re-sign him, they trade him, in which case, the team that trades for him will assuredly demand an extension.

    So I completely disagree with your assumption that he’ll be available to sign as a free agent.

    Also, you guys make it seem like I want to get rid of our young guys. I love our kids, I’m simply proposing a deal I think is plausible and one I think the Twins might go for.

    They will want a proven pitcher (Bills), a major-league ready position player (Kemp), and a top pitching prospect (Kershaw). It would definitely be a risky trade, but not crazy by any means.


    manny, with the way Johan has talked, he won’t sign an extension with the Twins. If he gets traded, I doubt he gets an extension. When you are the top pitcher in the game, why wouldn’t you test free-agency to get your market value with every team possible?


    Manny–Sorry, I did not mean to imply that he WILL be available. I actually think that the Twinkies will work out a long-term deal with him over the off-season, and the whole issue will be moot.

    But, he’s only available for a trade IF they don’t. But, I don’t agree that he will sign a long-term contract to whomever he gets traded to. Hie might, but he might just test the market. Because he is as good as you say, he’ll have a lot of power in the market to set his own course. I think that if he does not get a deal in the off-season, he’ll test the free agent market. Why make a deal in July when you might make a much bigger deal in November? The risk is only 2 months, and who knows if you are going to a place you’ll want to stay with.

    Jungar–absolutely right about Ethier/Kemp and Grace/Dawson. Hopefully Kemp’s knees don’t fall apart.


    so about 6822 people think that the dodgers won’t even be in the post season…

    this people frustrates me…

    they should at least think positive…

    and we even still have the chance to win the division…

    i think last nights game for the d’backs is the start of at least 1 week struggle…

    and by that time we might be 2-3 games behind…



    1) Do you really think the Twins would simply let the contract run out without getting nothing more than 2 compensatory draft picks?

    2) Do you really think a team would trade a kings ransom for a 1/2 to full season rental?

    And that just leaves one final question…

    3) Do you think the Twins would trade Johan for scubs (which is all they would get without re-signing assurances)?

    If your answers are no, no, and no, then you would have to agree with my conclusion that Johan will either re-sign with the Twins or sign with the team he is traded to.


    Manny…Hunter is a multiple All Star/gold glove CF and a free agent after this year..

    So why would the Twins simply let the contract run out without getting nothing more than 2 compensatory draft picks for him?


    charris 5 hr’s in one inning my worst baseball experience I was the shorstop. That left field wall felt like it was 250 ft.


    I agree with no trading of Santana, especially when he’s assured to hit the FA market. These young guys are by no means assurances to work out—they all have things to work on still. We forget about how little experience in the majors they actually have. I think next year they will be even better and it will be fun to watch them.


    Comparing Hunter to Johan…come on now.

    Posted by: | August 21, 2007 11:56 AM

    i knew u’ll say that…

    that’s what people say when they really like a certain player…

    they don’t even think what’s reality…

    if we try to trade for santana at the end of the season it’s a sure thing that he will test the free agent market…


    Johan will come to the dodgers, pitch three innings, and his season will be done, doesn’t that happen with all free agents that come here.


    You are going to have to pay Santana $20 million plus a year for 7 to 10 years.

    You are not going to be able to afford to spend a great deal of money at every other position.

    The only way Santana makes us a winner for several years to come is as a free agent in combination with all our core young players.

    Sure, all the young players will not be stars, but if you have six or seven stud young players they “ALL” do not have to work out for the Dodgers to do quite well for the next decade.


    Do I have to put in a disclaimer to everything I say. I am not comparing their talent. Johan is way better…but that still dosen’t change the question….

    hunter is going to get a 5 year deal. He may not be a superstar but is an elite CF that everyone knows will hit FA market and they held on to him when they could have gotten prospects for him…

    So the twins may look at it like, where else can we get an ace (maybe the best arm in all of baseball) in 08 for 9 million?


    i can’t w8 to see the lineup…

    i hope ethier and Kemp are both in it…

    but i think gonzo will play today…


    Good stuff over at And here it is:

    “Dodgers Hopes Improving: I’m not saying the Dodgers are going to win a World Championship in 2007, or even a division race, but during the weekend series victory against Colorado, the club did shows signs of life. And just plain signs.

    In any successful baseball campaign, there are certain unexpected occurrences which qualify as signs. A mid-August, two-hit, masterful winning performance from someone like Eric Stults is one of those signs. A game winning two-run single by someone like Ramon Martinez is one of those signs.

    Though the club lost a heartbreaker Saturday night, Rudy Seanez escaping a bases loaded, no out situation in extra innings is one of those signs.

    Going back further, a gimpy Derek Lowe weaving a brilliant seven-inning, zero walk shutout of the Astros Thursday is one of those signs.

    You have to have those kinds of things occur in order to get to the postseason, and as last year’s St. Louis Cardinals proved, once you get there, anything can happen.

    By the way, Ramon Martinez is a much better hitter than his .180 batting average shows. And he’s the type of player you can rely upon to make a huge play at a crucial point in a season-changing game, at any of three positions.

    The Dodgers have made a step in the right direction. A small step, but a step in the right direction…”

  201. Roberto

    What’s with all the rumors around the baseball sites that A-ROD is leaving New York and coming to Anaheim? What a sad day that would be. Just like when Vladimir signed with them….


    My two cents on acquiring Santana. He’s outstanding, and we should make a huge push for him if he’s available as a free agent. With all (okay, many — they won’t all pan out) of our young guys producing at low prices, we should have the money.

    At the same time realize that no player, especially a pitcher, is a “sure thing”. Although I have to admit that there are very few pitchers with careers like Santana’s that quickly went downhill. Doc Gooden is one example, but that may have been because of his drug use and/or heavy workload as a very young pitcher.

    Still, two young MLBers with the upside of Billingsley and especially Kemp, along with a +++ prospect like Kershaw is too big a risk for a single pitcher. Especially when free agency offers so much for so little in terms of talent.


    What the Dodgers need to do is move DY (Delwyn Young) back to second, bring LaRoach back up to play third and give some of the young pitchers like Hull and Stults a real chance. You can’t tell me that they couldn’t at least do as good as Tomko and Hendy. Kent and Nomar are washed up and need to go. Loney, Kemp and Either should start every game because they are better than anything else the Dodgers have. They need to trade Pierre and sign a guy like Hunter or Andruw. They have good young pitchers in the system and Broxton should have no problem closing games in the next year or two. After that all they have to do is sign some middle relief.

    But for the rest of this season the line up should look like this…






    Kent or DY




    Santana will probably end up in the AL East or with a team like the Mets that can spend the money. A-Rod will probably be a Cub or an Angel next year.

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