Coffee is needed, as is a little perspective

Last night’s game, which finished this morning, was the 15th longest in franchise history. Five hours, six minutes and unfortunately, nothing to show for it but a loss and a tired bullpen. But as Grady put it after the game, we now have to find a way to put that behind us, because we play again at 1:10 today.

Both teams are tired, both teams need a win today and the team that comes out on top finishes the series in third place. A big start for Penny would be a huge boost.

And in case anyone thinks I’m the only positive one around here, be sure to read Kurt Streeter’s column from this morning. Kurt moved over from the news side of the L.A. Times where he was an award-winning columnist and has some really interesting ideas for columns in the future. He spent a week in the pavilions and wrote about it.  Are any of the bleacher creatures visiting this blog? Just curious.

Even T.J. Simers came around this morning with one of those few positive stories he writes he each year. As Vin Scully says in the article, "I guess God put people like that on Earth to remind the rest of us that we don’t have it so bad." He was referring to the subject of the article, not T.J. 🙂

Here’s today’s lineup:

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Hillenbrand, 3B

Ethier, LF

Martin, C

Loney, 1B

Martinez, 2B

Penny, P



    Wow one good game from shea and that jumps him over Ethier,Martin, and Loney? Oh well other than that I like the line up.


    With a day off tomorrow after a 14-inning game last night, today would have been a good day to give Russ a day off.


    “Both teams are tired, both teams need a win today and the team that comes out on top finishes the series in third place”.

    Has it really come down to this?? Oh yes count me in I am so fired up. 3rd place is on the line here…talk about getting some perspective.


    Giving Martin a day off is all fine and well until you realize we have a day off tomorrow and every game we need to win. I want Martin to have a day off especially after last nights marathon, but it is what it is, he’s a machine and we need this game today. Maybe he’ll get Tuesday off in Philly with Tomko on the mound? It’s also a shame Kent isn’t playing because he’s one of the few who hit Francis well.


    You know the season is done when a guy who was cut twice in one year is batting cleanup.

    Oh, and when Nomar comes back, that whining hack better be back on the bench and not robbing Loney of playing time.


    A friend of mine mentioned that he saw Mr. McCourt having dinner with Logan White at Morton’s Steakhouse in West Hollywood last week. I wonder if it had any special significance. Wonder if Colletti knew about that.


    cut twice once because he couldn’t hit in the big leagues. The other time he couldn’t hit for the Triple A padres affiliate the worst offense in baseball. Grittle bats him cleanup over all our youngsters. This is beyond frustrating.


    I like the lineup today, with the exception of Hilly batting cleanup. One good game doesn’t justify that move. I hope Penny’s ‘lights out’, and has his ‘A’ game today. I still believe ‘Blowberto’ needs to go, and be put out to pasture. He can’t hang at this level any more.


    Better than Saenz, the Rally Killing Tomato, in the lineup and batting 4th or 5th. Would have been nice to have Kent batting 4th today and everyone moved down one. Hillinbrand has been hot thus far. Got to get it done today. Especially with our ace going.









    They ALL should be shown the door on 10/1. Plus maybe a few others.


    Agreed on getting rid of Saenz. He’s outlived his usefullness here. I realize he’s been with the club for a long time. But this club needs more than what he can provide. Maybe he can go to the American league where all old, fat, slow, non defensive playing hitters always go at the end of their careers. Adios.


    And people wonder why other people don’t like Grady… and then you see this lineup. On Martin yes its true they have a day off, but after 14 innings he might be too tired to even block balls effectively, and we all know about Penny’s splitter. It’s still ridiculous to play him. Liebs really does have the best job in baseball.


    where was takashi last night huh? they have every releiver in the bullpen pitch except the best and have hernandez pitch 2 innings. after he’s piched a whole inning and gives up a triple i suggest getting a new guy in the game. that should have been a win last night but grady decides to keep in a pitcher that can barely pitch one successful inning, bad call. and saenz getting the 5 spot last night, you got to be kidding me. and what happens, with no outs in the 8th and a runner on the corners he hits into a double play, well thats just great. and now hillenbrand in the middle of the order, come on grady.

    lets win today.


    Liberthal seems doomed. He hardly ever gets playing time anymore since Wolf went on the DL. You can’t expect much out of him due to his lack of plate appearances. It’s got to be very frustrating for him too. Sitting this much can hurt any players mindset to where he feels like he’s dead weight, and not contributing enough to help the team in this time of need.


    Saito pitched 3 consecutive games with 3 straight saves. He needed the rest. They may need him today to close. I’m glad Grady saved him. I’m just thinking he could have used the bullpen more effectively last night.


    Just sitting here watching the Braves beating up on the Dbacks till game time. Smoltz is now the Braves all time SO leader passing ‘Knucksy’ Phil Niekro. I’m not a Braves fan, but he’s had a great career over the years.


    OK, one quick question. I dont mean to come on here and bash lineup’s but this is has been bothering me. I believe it was last week that Grady said Juan was batting 7th from now on correct? What happened since then , because I havent heard any explanation for puttin Juan back. I do not understand Grady’s logic in this case ( and most cases ). The guy gets some hits in the 7 spot and he is right back in the 2 spot the next day? Also, this Hillenbrand thing makes me want to choke on my own vomit. I see no reason for batting him ahead of Loney, no matter what Loney’s doing. This guy batting cleanup for us is just sickening…


    It was depressing watching our offense do nothing in extras last night against pitchers like Herges, Affeldt and Bucholz.

    Good to see the rally in the 8th, but it was horrible after.


    Looking ahead the offense need to find another gear for this upcoming road trip. The Phillies throughout all their injuries, and troubles are playing above everyone’s expectations. Howard tore up Dodgers pitching in their last visit. The Mets have faltered a bit, but they’re still playing good ball. Beltran, and Alou have been hot coming back off injuries. It’s going to be tough. This wild card race is going to be insane down the stretch.


    I’m just sitting here and wondering – Is there anymore TIRED, WORNOUT USELESS, OLD VETERANS that Ned can sign so that Grady Gump can use them in the lineup ahead of our young players…. Come on Ned, I’m sure there must be some others you can find…. Why not call the OLD FOLKS HOME….

    Do these Clowns think that the fans come to the ballpark to watch the old Geriatric Players or to watch the Young Players with all their enthusiasm who really need to play so that they can mature & hone there skills…. And, who are already better than all the oldtimers in the first place……

    GET A CLUE or GET LOST !!!


    Today’s Oldtimer: Duke Sims

    Is there anything in this world as wonderful as being an 8-year-old baseball fan in the summer? It’s all baseball cards, pickup games, and the voice of Vin Scully. Somehow the ballplayers of childhood loom larger than they merit when examined with the more cynical eye of an adult.

    That’s why I remember Duke Sims, that and his magical name. “Duke Sims”. Sounds like a catcher, and he was.

    Sims had one okay year as a Dodger, 1971 when he hit .274, 6 HR, 25 RBI in 230 AB. He was waived midway through the ’72 season and picked up by the Tigers. Though never anywhere near a leader board or an All-Star game, Sims did play 11 seasons in the major leagues. I’ll tell you what — if somebody told me in the summer of ’71 that I would never be a star but I would get to spend 11 years playing ball in the majors, I would have run around screaming with joy for weeks.


    Josh’s question yesterday was interesting–why are newspaper readers for signing old guys and bloggers for keeping the youth? Do the newspaper people know when Tony Abreu started playing? Do they know when LaRoche comes off the DL in Vegas. Do they know who Jonathan Meloan and Clayton Kershaw are? Do they know that people were upset that we did not sign Kyle Blair?

    I think the answer is that the people on the blogs are ridiculously committed to the team, and know the value of what we have coming up.

    We also know that of our 4 of our 5 best hitters are kids (Martin, Kent, Kemp, Loney, and Ethier, in no particular order)–which is why it drives us crazy when any of them sit inexplicably (like Loney, two nights in a row–although I understand resting old man Kent in a day game after a 14-inning night game).


    Final from Hotlanta: Braves 6-2 over the Dbacks, with 12K’s & a win for Smoltz. Gives the Dodgers a chance to gain some ground today. Dbacks have won 11 of 12 series since the all star break. That’s SMOKIN hot! The best to hope for is a wild card. We need help! GO DODGERS!


    I look at last night’s game as a game that seemed like the Dodger’s were about to lose at anytime. But they hung in there unbelievably, until they finally sucumbed. SAITO has gotten the save in the last 7 games that they’ve won, the last time they won without a Saito save was when BILLZ pitched the complete game on 7/23, according to my notes. I read in the Daily News (N.Y.) that Juan Pierre, officially, has the longest homerless streak of any active position player after Luis Castillo homered last night for the Mets. Last night’s game ended at 3:16 ET this morning. LET’S GET RIGHT BACK IN THERE.


    Disappointing news from Atlanta indeed!

    We need to win today to keep pace with the Braves in the Wild Card Race.

    I would think we would need to get into second place and within three games of the D-Backs before worrying about the NL West.

    Do you really believe the Astros are in the NL Central Race? They are in the same spot as the Dodgers, 4th Place and 7.5 games out…

    Forget the D-Backs, win some games and if Grady Little ever starts putting the best players on the field, we can make a run for the Wild Card.


    Is there any reason Hernandez, Saenz and Martinez were not sent DFA’ing last night or this morning?. The minute Hernandez was let in the game I knew it was over (For US)!!!!…Why is he still on the team?…and actually I knew it was over when I saw Saenz batting 5th..He and Grady must be having something on the side to let a 170ish hitter bat fifth…I guess Grady still remembers the “good” Saenz.
    I’m glad Penny is pitching today so Tomko can get blasted in Phillie…It seems Grady never learns…

    oh, and Martinez playing 2nd today…Guess Kent is tired and we don’t need his offense..


    I think Martinez is ‘it’ for infield relief no matter how pathetic his offensive numbers are. Not much of a choice. C’mon Abreu!


    is it just me or is holliday still limping a bit?

    it was nice to see a Kemp that wasnt limping last night.


    What do you know…first time Raffie has had a lead off hit in a looong time….Way to go Raffie..


    none of our season starting 3-4-5 hitters are playing today in the middle of a pennant race. Its hard for me to blame the manager when he dosen’t have the horses


    The trading of Betemit is bigger by the day…..He was our thunder off the bench and I think we still miss him

    And why not DJ Houlton instead of the pathetic Hernandez?…So much dead wood on this team it’s ridiculous….3 spots of no help at all…considering we don’t have lots of threats, it would be nice to see better players in those spots.


    and now they’re depending on Hillenbrand to bat fourth because for the first time in years he got 4 hits?


    I must say, that was a pretty slide be pierre.

    WTG kemp, making outs, but doing so productively.


    I’ll take you on leekfink about the use of the word inexplicably. I live in Philadelphia and get 99% of my Dodger info from the computer,since I couldn’t justify last night’s line-up I went to Tony Jackson but he had nothing. After every game here there is a post-game interview session with the manager, isn’t there one there where such questions can be asked by reporters? My take on last night was that the Dodgers scouts and tape watchers advised not starting the 2 young LH hitters Ethier and Loney against the specific LH pitcher that started against us last night for specific reasons. Maybe I’m naive but I prefer that explaination to Grady Gump name calling (not by you I know)that’s the best I can do about last night’s line-up but I think it’s better than inexplicable.
    On today’s line-up start with 2 givens that I agree with:Martinez 8th and Loney and Ethier not in a row so if Kemp stays 3 that leaves the other 4- now my guess is Grady picked Loney for 7 next that meant RH hitters for 4 and 6 so it’s either Martin 4 and Hillenbrand 6 or the reverse. I’m guessing Grady didn’t want to put more pressure on Martin so he said to himself oh well Hillenbrand will bat 4th and all the critics act like Grady started the line-up with Hillenbrand 4th because he had a good game yesterday so Grady is an idiot which they already think because they don’t bother to think. Grady’s nothing special but how many managers are and I’m sure he’s alot less an idiot than many of the posters who insult him.


    maybe it’s traffic still, but I haven’t seen the stands look so empty on a sunday game in august in a while.


    It’s pretty hard to do, but I think we should forget about the scoreboard, The snakes are out sight & we’re battling at least 4 teams in the wild card. I’m just going to concentrate on one team the D O D G E R S


    drpdedbind: If you are right I will be amazed-Penny today gives Lowe, Stults, and the most frustrating pitcher on the staff for me Billingsley for Phila. then Penny and (I hope they can find a better idea) Tomko and Lowe for NY. Phila. being 20-22 against LH starters. That’s why it was so brilliant of the “idiot” Grady to pitch Penny today. Sure hope it works.



    Stulz is pitching in NY…I think it’s Tomko, Lowe, and Billingsley in Phillie…Stulz pitches Sat in NY…not sure of the others.but I guess Penny maybe Sunday


    Forgive me if im not excited about this battle for third place. It’s sad it’s gotten this bad. We are the Dodgers we’re not supposed to be excitied about 3rd place.


    I think now would be a good time to throw over to first, Matsui doesnt even look like he’s watching Penny.


    ****, thats gonna run his pitch count up, that was an entire inning worth of pitches to one batter, at ten pitches I would have hit him and gone on to the next one.


    It seems to me Dodger pitchers spend much more time on the mound then the Dodgers spend at the plate.


    drpdedbind-I know that’s what you think, I know that what it says on the internet but I’ll be amazed if your right. That’s why I made my post to you in the first place.


    grady should not have put the hit and run on there.

    we are wasting chances again to blow this open.


    Regarding perspective being needed, my perspective on last night’s game is charge the loss to Grady. In a close game like that, think of the likely difference if Loney was batting instead of Saenz and if Ethier wasn’t wasted for one pinch hitting at bat. He should have replaced Gonzalez. What a waste for the evening when we needed him. Does Grady really care about giving the Dodgers the best chance to win? You sure can’t tell it by what he does!


    Agree with you rekrell..

    Looks like Penny is struggling a bit..hope he can get through this game…


    Just as I said Penny is struggling, there are 2 on and no one out…hate that when Penny was 0-2 on Helton.
    not good


    i like the movement and trying to open up holes, but if that was a hit and run, Pierre should be keeping an eye on the ball. The fact that Pierre wasnt leads me to believe that it wasnt a hit and run and grady is trying to pull a double steal. In which case, why in the world is Shea swinging at that. But then again its not like its the first time Pierre has screwed up on a hit and run, the other time was missing the call for a squeeze.


    Broxton probably not available today. So Im assuming the late inning guys today are Beimel, Proctor and Saito.


    Penny is at 82 pitches with no outs in the fourth, pen is not going to get as much of a break that it needs.


    Pierre was stealing on his own & Hillenbrand should have taken the pitch because he could see that Pierre already had the base stolen…. Then Pierre stumbles on his way back to second after already sliding into 3rd… Where the heck was our third base coach on that play…
    Just a stupid play by everbody involved… Another big wasted opportunity… Dum dum Dum…

    Now, to top it off, Penny is in big time trouble…


    How many times has Raffy pulled off a stunt like that to prevent a run. If it wasnt for his errors, he’d be the leading candidate for GG at short.


    Well known around the league to hit em deep to center against the Dodgers. It’s like the achilles heel of the ball club.


    Brad is done after 4, but I bet he goes back out for the 5th if he had the lead so he can qualify for the W.


    miketink–I will grant you that there are a lot of information (scouts, players, etc.) that Grady has access to that we don’t. But two straight games where Loney does not start makes a lot less sense–are there two straight Rockies pitchers that he can’t handle???

    But, the real problem with the explanation that you offer is that last night’s starter for the Rockies (Franklin Morales) was making his MLB debut last night, and was in Class A ball last year (possibly, Loney faced him earlier this year, but Ethier has certainly never seen him).

    Pierresastemeetswest is right, which is to focus on winning today, and not worry about the scoreboard until we put together a bunch of wins.


    They only have 2 fair hits but I say they’re really banging Perry around. It looks like he’s having a lot of trouble throwing the ball pass them.


    drpde how is Penny not good, one bad inning thus far this game and 17 pitches thrown to a single batter is going to shorten anyones game. The biggest problem for Penny over the last few starts have been his run support, his ERA has climbed 0.5 thats not like a night and day difference like it was last year, that just fatigue and the league learning how to hit you.



    It just looks like Penny struggles more now than he did in the first half of the year…Of course it would be better if we had some home run threats in our line up to make things easier…We have lots of singles and sometime doubles hitters..makes the game alot harder.


    we will probably see Penny out for one more inning, he’s due up next and if martinez grounds into a double play, Littles hand is going to be forced, ‘pen is overtaxed as is and will prob see proctor for two innings today, then Beimel in 9th.


    scurtis1999–Agreed about Francis.

    But Koufax looked weird, and there wasn’t a geekier looking player in baseball than Orel Hershiser.


    How many on this board think the Dodgers have a “REAL” legitimate chance to go to the playoffs?…not what you want to happen, but what will happen…I just don’t think we have enough…with players like Martinez instead of Betemit (still think that deal hurt us) and Saenz on the bench…and some of the pitching…it would take a miracle….This doesn’t seem to be the kind of team that can roll off a big string of wins in a row…I think the upcoming trip to Phillie and New York will tell how the season ends up…Both of those clubs can hit…If we come back with a bad road trip, I think it’s over.



    without alot of pitches too for Francis…Brad has struggled since the outset.

    Too many balls out of the strike zone…


    drpdedbind: I’d say it’s very hard to tell since they have such a JEKLE & HYDE personality.


    We’d stand a better chance in this game if the Rockheads can keep the ball in fair territory.


    Yeah, but its the balls in the strike zone that they are fouling off is what could kill Penny.



    I think we had a better chance last year because we had a few more pieces that we’re missing now…and we got a big boost at the trade deadline..this year we got none of that…in fact I think we lost a bit…the team needs more and needs to get rid of alot of dead weight,which won’t happen until the season is over (hopefully)…If Saenz, Martinez and Hernandez are on this team next year, I’ll know for sure management has no clue.


    and if you really want to get sick, just read where Betemit had 4 rbi’s today….Headline says ” Betemit and surging Yankees pound Tigers”…..I keep saying the Yankees must have thought they stole us blind…Very bad trade…especially since Proctor has given up several home runs already…hate that trade and knew it would come back to haunt us..


    I think Penny’s biggest problem was getting the ball past these guys. Let’s hope we can hold them and get some more runs on the scoreboard, to help get him that 15th win.


    drpdedbind, you’re absolutely right! The Betemit trade was VERY STUPID. When the Yankees want a player like Betemit with the infield they have, how could we be so dumb as to trade him for a relief pitcher that was having HR problems with the Yankees?


    An insurance run would be HUGE here. I don’t know if our ‘pen can hold a 2-1 lead with Broxton unavailable.



    You know the Yankees have wanted Betemit for awhile…They probably wanted someone to give Jeter a rest now and then…I can’t tell you how mad I get about that trade…our only good bench guy and fill in infielder…STUPID


    I know you guys all love Loney and It’s ok to try to be aggressive but you need to be 100% sure you’re not going to get picked off with first and third and 2 out. He took the bat right out of Martinez’ hand…



    LOL…that might have been a good thing…taking the bat out of Martinez’s hand…now we have no one to bat for Martinez unless Grady will let Kent play the last 2 innings….


    Good to see BEIMAL as his usual self today, He’s one of my favorites, If we get back to the post season he’ll be one of the reasons, I hope he goes with us this time, ofcourse.


    Betemit has 12 RBIs in August, in just 30 ABs…

    Does any Dodger player have 12 RBIs this month?



    You can thank Ned for that..I can’t stand reading about Betemit because we needed him..Another bone head trade from Ned…If that was all he could do…he shouldn’t have.


    Think about next year folks…
    The worst trade ever again for Ned…thanks for Proctor..a used up pitcher for Betemit.


    Colorado’s lineup is twice as good as ours.

    I forgot LA is a small market now and we can’t afford offense.



    NO ANDRE!!! why did Andre have to make such a good play! now he’s not going to start tomorrow.


    better question is why did Little bring him in after beimel. Beimel has been more lights out this year than Proctor has. But the score right now has a lot to do with mental errors on the base paths.


    Thar she blows! Here we go again with the bullpen snafu! How many dingers is that now for Proctor since joining the club?


    Losing … losing …

    Penny was probably hoping for an easy win here, given his domination over the Rockies of late.

    But eh, today was one of those “Us? Score runs?” days, and then Proctor got his bell rung. Slouching towards a fourth-place finish, that’s us.


    I think there has been one, maybe 2 games where Proctor hasn’t given up a home run…dependable Grady…NOT


    riley 22

    Alot of dingers…why do you think the Yankees got rid of him??..because he was so good…no…they stole Betemit


    Is Proctor worse than Hernandez?

    Would Meloan be any worse than either of them?

    or Hull for that matter?

    or Fernando Cabrera who was just released?

    or anyone?



    lol….it’s the 1/5 that kills us…But remember, we have to go to Colorado for 4 games in Sept…That is one tough place to win…so if we’re not completely out of it by then, we will be that week.


    It’s starting to get to the point where i hope we just bomb out the rest of the season so we can get some change in the management.


    It would be one thing if they just acquired Proctor..but we traded a good player for him that we needed…..

    No excuse for this Ned



    I totally agree with you…the only way things will really change is if they tank the rest of the way…


    im trying to think positive here, but i just don’t feel it.

    Kent is the worst PH ever but I hope he proves his stats wrong.


    What the ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Is Grady at all vauguely aware of how Loney hits left-handers? Is he aware that there is 1 out and the worst hitter on the team is due up next?

    Forget it. Fire Grady!



    You are right…and if they gave up on Proctor there was a reason….but the Dodgers looked desparate…so stupid


    Yup! The old Unintentional intentional walk. They weren’t going to give (Kent)him a thing to hit.


    The reason they got rid of Proctor is because of jabba chamberlien…and someone else I forgot the name.


    How do you spell relief?
    S A I T O! He’s been MONEY for this team lately! Awesome! First series we’ve won in too long. GO DODGERS!


    Oh, by the way, Marlon Anderson was 3-4 today in the Mets win…Another great decision by Ned….

    Great win today, but can this team survive all the bad decisions Ned has made…?


    Anybody see how Gagne has blown up in Boston?..I can’t believe it’s the same guy…He is the reason for 3 of their losses late…He was throwing nothing but fast balls that weren’t that fast…never seen anything like it…instead of game over it was game on…lol


    Diehard if you’re reading this I just wanted to say that today in an AAU game I got hit by a fastball up and in in my left hand and it broke three bones in my hand. Im gonna be out for a couple of months. I have to type with one hand now so I was just wondering have you ever had a bad injury and how did you deal with it?


    Diehard if you’re reading this first of all great win by the dodgers and my man Grady, hes a good skipper. second of all today in an AAU game I got hit by a fastball up and in in my left hand and it broke three bones in my hand. Im gonna be out for a couple of months. I have to type with one hand now so I was just wondering have you ever had a bad injury and how did you deal with it?


    Stults needs to stay in the rotation and we need to call up Houlton to replace Tomko. I would love to DFA Tomko but I doubt it will happen.


    Just got back, rollercoaster of a game. Penny just didn’t have the ability to put anybody away and with Broxton unavailable they had to use Proctor when they normally would not of and he started off with two quick outs. Holliday just got his bat on it to drive it into center and Proctor gave up the two run shot. Demorilizing shot, until of all people Ramon Martinez delivers with the bases loaded, Saito shuts them down. Topsy-turvy game to the point where you felt this was the end (Helton’s HR) to shocking turn of events (Martinez) to victory!


    Martinez with 18 RBIs this year in 128 PAs with only 3 extra base hits all doubles and only 2 of them produced RBIs.He has knocked in quite a few more runs than his BA would imply.


    Look for Tomko to get roughed up in Tuesday’s game in Philly. The Phillies lead the NL in runs and BA. Ryan Howard is career 4-5 w/2HR against Tomko and Jimmy Rollins is 7-13 w/HR career against tomko. Tomko is a fly ball pitcher in a ballpark that gives up alot of HR’s. Look for balls to fly out of Citizens Bank Park. I think to win we’re gonna have to score atleast 7 or 8 runs depending how long Grady leaves Tomko in for.



    hopefully we can go on a nice hot streak cause time is slowly but surely running out.


    This road trip I think will decide the season. They have to win both these series and hopefully pick up a game or two on ARI. Then sweep their ***** when we play them next and we are right back in it.


    Gutsy,fantastic 4-3 win for our Los Angeles Dodgers over the Colorado Rockies!Ramon Martinez,you showed such tremendous courage as you wore The Los Angeles Dodgers uniform with honor!Takashi Saito,fanastic!Lets’ all jump on the Los Angeles Dodger bandwagon and encourage our guys all the way to the World Series!Arizona is sill on the radar!Ain’t no mountain high enough!


    If anyone is reading this do you think that Arizona will come back to the pack or do you think that they will continue this surge and win the NL West?


    The Ground Hogs – They come to this site every day. They bash, and bash, and bash, and then they suddenly disappear, usually with egg on their face, only to re-appear tomorrow to bash, and bash, and bash, again and again, every single day.

    Thank You Ramon Martinez for giving us one of the most exciting wins of the season!

    By the way, Josh, I am one of those Bleacher Creatures that you inquired about – and **** proud of it. Of course I’m sure that you will never even see this post because of all of the Ground Hog posts.




    not counting today:

    -team batting avg tied for 10th in baseball

    -runs scored 23rd

    -HR we are 26th

    -team sb 4th

    -team obp 14th

    -team slug tied for 27th

    -team era is 6th

    -team whip is 6th

    -team ks (pitching) #1


    fansince53, i respect ur passion for the Dodgers but you must also respect the so-called “ground hogs” passion for these same dodgers also.

    Do you really want us bringing up how trading for Proctor was a mistake? How Roberto Hernandez is not a good player? How Ramon Martinez and his winning hit today does not make amends for his .180 batting average, gift hit today, nor error the other day? Would you like us to bring up how Meloan, Abreu, and possibly Hu could produce at about the same level if given a chance considering at least 2 of the 3 WILL be on the team next year and could be getting their learning curves in now rather than wasting time with Roberto Hernandez and Ramon Martinez who (WILL NOT) be on the team next year? How Shea Hillenbrand should NOT have been hitting clean-up after one game where he went 4-4 with all singles and no power?

    Or should we bash Grady and his befuddling managerial moves which are too numerous to list (again).

    For now we are all celebrating a Dodger win and are trying to hold off the critique of a manager and GM most of us “ground hogs” cannot stand.


    Beside Wilsons for Proctor.
    jackson traded for baez and carter

    guzman traded for lugo

    ST. PETERSBURG — Joel Guzman arrived at Tropicana Field early on Sunday morning after getting the highly anticipated call to The Show.

    By late Sunday afternoon, he was the hit of the show.

    Guzman’s RBI single in the bottom of the 12th gave the Devil Rays a 4-3 win over the Indians in front of a crowd of 22,329 to avoid a three-game sweep. Once Jonny Gomes scored with the winning run, Rays players mobbed the obviously excited rookie.

    “It was my first Major League hit with the Devil Rays and also a walk-off hit,” Guzman said. “So it was an unbelievable feeling. I was jumping. I didn’t know what to do.”


    Over his past four starts, Jackson has blossomed into the pitcher the Rays thought he could become when they acquired him from the Dodgers two offseasons ago. The faith – and patience – the Rays organization has shown in the young pitcher is finally beginning to pay off. Another “growth moment,” as manager Joe Maddon puts it, occurred Friday.

    Now if the Rays offense can only hold up its end of the bargain.

    Jackson allowed just two runs – one in each of the first two innings – over six innings but was dealt a 2-1 loss to the Indians at Tropicana Field.

    For the Rays 46-75, it was their 13th loss to the Indians in their past 14 meetings, despite Jackson (3-12), who has allowed two or fewer runs in each of his past four outings, pitching to a 1.33 ERA over that span.

    But the Rays have yet to score more than four runs in any of Jackson’s 23 starts this season while he is in the game. Friday marked the 10th time Tampa Bay has scored one or fewer runs when Jackson is on the mound.


    I was waiting for somebody to bring up Guzman, and I have this to say, I couldn’t care less…same with Jackson…sorry we have better players they were flat out expendable. We may have received nothing much in return, but really who cares. We have Bills, LaRoche and Kemp who I would take over Jackson and Guzman every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Also Franklin Gutierrez is doing pretty darn well in Cleveland BTW. I don’t miss him either, but that one is on DePo. Lets talk about the Dodgers and not ex-prospects who had a nice game…like it means they’re superstars or something. Same with Betemit, if LaRoche were healthy and producing this Betemit issue wouldn’t even be a discussion. For every 4 RBI game Mr. Platoon Betemit has another 3 K night is just around the corner. Especially from the right side…and believe me we all saw the 3 K night happened more often.

    GO DODGERS! Over the hill veterans, kids and .180 batters included!!! Sick of this choosing favorites ****. Just produce I don’t care what your name is!


    Maybe I should also bring up the fact Betemit went 2 for 20 with ten strikeouts and 1 HR since his ‘blazing’ first two games with the Yankees.


    I think your misguided alex. The idea here is we trade solid prospects for guys not even on the roster. Surely you wouldn’t rather have even more potential prospect than not? Trade them, but trade them for good players. You would rather be throwing Hendu than Jackson fine, but not me. I have fond memories of Jackson, i feel he was rushed by us but had a live arm and to trade him for two middle relivers when power pitchers are so hard to come by is wrong. Trading Guzman for a rental was wrong. Trading frankin got us a good year of bradley and now ethier so thats fine, we got talent in return. 2004 bradley was awesome. Trading Wilson for a middle reliver is wrong. it dosent mean they are superstars and its that they are solid players and young and we gave them away for ****. why cant u see that coletti is hurting us? honestly alex, remember this in 3 years and we will talk about jackson and guzman. i guarntee you they will be solid major leauge players..


    I loved the article about bleacher creatures. At least I know there are positive Dodger fans. I hope you realize that the Dodgers have won 4 out of five games, the one that was lost was the one that went into 14 innings!! The other games were just exciting. And who were the heroes anyway?? Oh, just that “useless overpaid” Pierre who has been stealing, hitting and being totally awesome. And Ramon who is always everyones whipping boy who actually won the game yesterday. And the response is…it’s a “gift hit”. Let’s get real here. The Dodgers have been winning games with Grady’s lineup. No matter what you guys think, it’s working. It’s turning around. The Dodgers are nailbiting exciting to watch now. Let’s give credit where credit is due instead of being negative even when the Dodgers are playing like the winners that they are. All I can say is Go Dodgers!!!


    I think it is great that we finally won a series and hopefully stopped the bleeding in the standings. But, it is not yet time to have an **gasm just because Martinez finally got a clutch hit or a couple of other guys had a good game when they have not done so consistently the whole season long. The fact is we’re still 6 1/2 games out behind AZ and fighting for a wild card at best. This is after numerous off-season failures to put together a team that one could expect for the $110 million payroll and constant poor management of players and lineups with the roster that we do have. We should be the team that is 5 or 6 games out front in the standings. If it was my money at stake, the burden would still be on Colletti and Little to produce a playoff winner, and if they don’t at the end of the season they should both be OUT. I’m hoping that McCourt practices the same level of accountability for us Dodger fans.


    lvproduction – I guess what I am trying to say (and have been all season long) is that everybody knows exactly how you and everybody else feels about Grady, Colletti, Pierre, Gonzo, Kent, Saenz, Martinez, Tomko, Hendrickson, Nomar, Proctor, Hernandez, Seanez, and everybody else not named Martin, Kemp, Loney, Ethier, Billingsley, and Broxton.

    Regardless of how you or I feel about the Dodgers, the every day bashing of the same guys day after day does NOTHING. You can hate Pierre, or Grady, or Ned, (or whoever) and bash them all you want, but it does NOTHING because they don’t read this blog and they don’t give a rat’s *** what you or I think anyway. (No offense to you Angel fans – hahaha!).

    There are definitely several Dodger players that I wish were not on the team, but wishing them away (or bashing them every day) certainly isn’t going to make it happen.

    If the decisions of Ned or Grady, or the play of the Dodgers upsets you (collectively) so much so that you have to complain about them every single day, day in and day out, over and over and over again, perhaps you should get behind something other than baseball. Life is too short to be full of so much anger and negativity. Baseball is supposed to be fun.



    Oh Wow 3rd place. Be still my beating heart. I’ll get excited after the road trip, if there’s anything to be excited about. Right now I’ll be a groundhog and continue to bash management until they make sensible decisions that will make this team a 1st place club. Lets see how this club, which has been put together like a house of cards ,fairs against the Phils and Mets.


    That’s all fine and well, I still don’t care about Guzman or Jackson. They were traded because they had no place on this this team. My point is they could in time become decent major league careers, Jackson doesn’t have nearly the ceiling as Billingsley. Guzman I still think has the ceilng to become a really solid player in the future, but he wasn’t going to become our everyday shortstop or third baseman, nor would I want Guzman over Kemp nor Ethier. They both have a chance in Tampa Bay to build some sort of career before being traded somewhere where they can win (maybe). It’s not so much a knock on them as it is the surplus of talent. Could we have received more in return for them? Probably, but Lugo’s failure in the National League had more to do with Lugo than Ned’s trade. I was rather indiiferent to the trade, I felt he was an upgrade over Izturis overall, but Lugo played below his talent level and that’s on him. Also, Jackson had little trade value left and Hendrickson is not a total disaster as some would like to believe he is, so we’re lucky we got anything for Jackson. I wish them both well in Tampa. They earned their spot there not here.


    You know the old saying ” if you don’t have anything good to say about someone, don’t say anything”…well, the same could apply to Ned and the trading deadline…If you can’t improve the team, leave your best bench player alone..and be wary when the Yankees want to dump Proctor for Betemit….and don’t dfa your best bench players during the season and leave the worst on the team…i.e. Marlon Anderson, last year Cody Ross…etc….If we had Marlon and Wilson we would be much better instead of Saenz and Martinez( even though he came through yesterday..) Marlon was 4-5 yesterday with the Mets….


    drpdedlbnd, I hope Marlon Anderson and Wilson Betemit go a combined 8 for 10 with 3 HR’s and 7 RBI’s tonite. What good does that do the Dodgers? It’s time we let it go, learn to live with Martinez and Saenz and now Sweeney and Hillenbrand and hope we can pull off a 4-2 or 5-1 week over the next 6 games. This team is who it is, we cannot continue to monitor what could have been, it’s not healthy.


    A lot of us (myself included) have said that Roberto Hernandez doesn’t belong on this team, especially since we have better talent in the minors. However, here’s a benefit to having Hernandez around that never occurred to me before today (courtesy of Dylan Hernandez in the Times):

    “Hernandez says he is doing what he can to pass along his share of knowledge, and he’s been pleased to find willing pupils in Jonathan Broxton and Chad Billingsley. They talk daily, with Hernandez asking them why they threw certain pitches in certain situations and offering alternatives.

    ‘He’s been awesome for the young guys to be around, especially me,’ Broxton said.”


    So 33 year old soft tossing left Mark Henderickson has a place on the team. Him with his 8.24 ERA after the all star break but 23 year old hard throwing Edwin Jackson and his 2.98 era after the break wouldn’t?******* man did Ned hire you to be his PR guy?

    Edwin Jackson has nothing to do with Billingsley. We are alowed to have both you know.


    It’s not that I care about the player, but it’s two more cases of us not trusting the talent we have and going out and getting more exspensive inferior talent instead.

    We give up 4 0r 5 under 23 year old for guys we wish weren’t on the roster. But of course we have to just cheer blindly cause we wouldnt want anyone to get upset with 3rd place.



    I hear what you’re saying, I’m just mad because our team could be so much better if Ned hadn’t done the wrong thing…Why was he so much better last year?…can’t figure that out..or maybe he didn’t have as much time to think.


    fansince53–You’re right in that a lot of the complaints about Grady/Ned/Pierre have been around all season (though Pierre has been playing well of late). But part of this board is to discuss the Dodgers, and the complaints are part of it (heck, some days, there would be nothing if it weren’t for the bashings of those three).

    Admittedly, most of the regulars know where most everyone stands, so it’s probably not necessary to get into it every day, but if people want to vent, why not? I yell at the umpires when they make a bad call, and they have never changed a call because of it. But I’ll still do it.

    Plus, recently, some people have been finding new ways to mess up. I won’t go into it, since the Dodgers have 4 of 5, and hopefully are turning it around.

    Jungar/Alex–If I can weigh in on the debate over Jackson, Guzman (and to a lesser extent Betemit, but it would also capture Aybar and a few others)–I think we lost guys who we are OK in losing. Guzman and Aybar would likely never have a role here (over LaRoche, Abreu, Hu, etc.). Jackson–I think that the thought was he was either not going to do it, or not going to do it until he got out of LA, so it’s not a big loss (acknowledging that pitching is always good to have). But, on the other hand, we may have sold too low on these guys. These are still valuable prospects, so maybe we could have done better (maybe not, considering the number of actual young MLB-players that teams were asking for in exchange for guys like Blanton and Texiera). To me, losing the guys we have lost is not so bad as whether we got the most in exchange for them.


    he is much better last year coz he doesn’t trust our team last year…

    this year he knows that the team can do alot better that’s why he didn’t really made alot of moves coz he is scared that the team might lose the magic that they have last season…


    I think that last year, coming in, the team had been so depleted and we were so happy to see DePodesta go, we gave Ned the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt in my mind that he has made some bad moves this season, what i’m saying is that we can’t continue to harp on his mistakes. If you came home a 3 AM blitzed, your wife would not be happy..what do you do? Try to make tomorrow a good day, you can’t take back what’s done…. that’s all i’m saying I guess i’m trying to remain positive without cheering for Ned.


    Guzman and Jackson could have brought us more value. It isn’t just the fact that we traded away that bothers ppl, it’s the fact that we pretty much didnt get anything of value in return. Two months of Julio Lugo? Dannys Baez? he was garbage. Well we eventually traded him for Meat, but he’s gone and now we got Proctor to show for all of that. How many guys would rather have Guzman’s and Jackson’s potential over Proctor? I don’t mind trading the kids if we get good value in return. I like deals like trading Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett… not deals like trading Joe Nathan and Fransisco Liriano for A.J. Piersinski… Ned had a part in that too btw, in SF.



    Hmm..never thought about that Nathan trade….I hope Ned can learn from this year because otherwise I’m not liking him!!!


    agreed drpdedblnd, nothing Ned has done has really worked out the way we hoped it would. Hopefully he will be able to get a big bat this offseason that will work out. Or else we’ll have wasted alot of money.


    HA, blaming Ned for the Nathan/Liriano/Bonser for A.J trade. I still get laughs over that one to this day. What a horrible trade by Sabean. Why not blame Ng and Logan White among others for trading Betemit/Jackson/Guzman as well, since they had a part in those as well. It’s a collective group of people who make these decisions. I love how all the bad decisions are Ned’s fault and all the good ones are someone elses. We’re having the same conversation once again and I’m tired of it. If Logan White becomes GM someday, he’s going to make some horrible decisions and some really good ones. That’s being a GM, stop placing unrealistic expectations on these human beings. Mistakes happen, move on and learn from them but never look back and think of what might of been, despite how much desire there may be to do so.


    Yeah exactly. I would trade Kemp, Broxton, Billingsley or Martin if we got studs in return. I would rather not cause i enjoy rooting for them, but winning consitently is the main thing.

    But I don’t like it when people pretend that the trades and the talent that Coletti has evaulated has been good, cause its not. It’s rather bad. Our 3/4/5 hitters and 2/5ths of our rotation this year has been bad. Period. It’s only because of the orginizational depth that were in 3rd place and i am mearly showing examples of how he has traded away orginizationl depth for garbage. it may not catch up to us for a while, but look at the Giants. Enough said.

    Anyone who thinks its ok to loose a 23 yr old first round draft talent who makes 300k who throws 90+ is wrong. And so on.

    But yeah I will shut up. We have won 4 out of 5 and that’s great. I just think this is a place to talk about this stuff because we would be so much better without Coletti and unless fans speak up nothing will change. I have been consitent and admit I have repeated myself to many times on the same topic.


    I guess what you fail to understand Alex is it’s a philosophical view point that is troubling, not making mistakes. Mistakes happen all the time. No biggie. But he trusts medicore veterans over potential upside young talent and that’s troubling.


    i don’t know why alot of people are still mad about the proctor and betemit trade…

    if that trade didn’t happen… the person much likely to fill in that role is Hernandez…

    i would rather choose proctor over hernandez…

    betemit had his chance and he didn’t perform well…

    yeah he has been amazing as a pinch hitter so what…?

    we need a reliver that time and the team didn’t really need him that time coz our offense is hot before the trade…


    The Gonzo and Pierre signings I understand but I think our front office made a mistake with the betemit trade and both trades with tampa bay… but you’re right Alex I should say the organization not just Ned.


    To settle this debate down because I personally am done with it. I wish Guzman and Jackson well in Tampa Bay. But, we’re better off without them, they really didn’t have a place on this team. They have a job in Tampa Bay, a team that is ok with losing and giving them a chance allowing them to fail. I really did like Betemit, but I like LaRoche enough to understand why Betemit had to go. We may be taking our lumps now, but the right decision was made. As for Proctor, he’s a middle reliever, not a stopper. We already have our present young stopper (Broxton) and a pretty darn good one on the way (Meloan). Proctor is a cheap arm, far from perfect. He’s a 6th/7th inning type of guy. If only LaRoche were healthy, that’s the only reason Betemit’s name is continuing to be brought up. The move was made to clear room for LaRoche for the future and give us another arm in the pen. It was always going to be Betemit or LaRoche. I understand Betemit was more than a third baseman, but he’ll always just be a platoon player. I feel the right decision was made. I am with most of you in thinking Ned has made mistakes. I’m far from his P.R man, believe me when real mistakes are made. I’ll let it be known, which I’m not afraid to do at all. It’s just not as bad as some of you would like it to be so you can campaign for Little and Ned to be fired.


    I don’t think we should fire Ned but I think if in the next couple of years we aren’t winning and he continues to make these trades that only hurt us there should be some change… he’s still better then DePodesta.


    trading betemit is not a mistake if they get LaRoche in the minors before he gets injured…

    would u want to see betemit than LaRoche?


    That’s a very good point Alex and it changes my opinion of Ned a little bit… I stand by you 100% and I have from day 1 said that it’s not Grady’s fault and it would be a horrible mistake to fire him.


    Imagine if all of us on this board had been able to sit in on meetings with Coletti, etc about trades..Maybe we could have given him the other side…Could we have stopped him?..I hope so!!!


    if we are talking about character i don’t want him fired!
    but his strategy in putting lineups is horrible…

    i can’t blame alot of it from him coz our lineup is really hard to figure out w/o a power bat…

    so im 50-50 if i want him to be fired or not…


    If you ask me I think that we have the fourth best personell in the division. I think Grady has done a great job to keep us in contention for as long as he has, especially considering all the injuries we’ve had to our pitching staff. In my opinion he’s one of the best skippers in the majors.


    So…if we have the fourth best personnel in the division and at least an equal farm system to AZ and a much bigger payroll than AZ, SD, and CO, shouldn’t that tell you that our GM is doing a horrible job?

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