Hangin' in there

It looks like you are all still staying in the conversation, as there are tons of comments from yesterday. Unfortunately, I haven’t had a chance to read all of them, but I’m sure they can’t be very happy ones with the way last night ended. Safe to say, it’s been a very long time since I’ve seen a player that upset or embarrassed after a game.

But there isn’t much you can really say at this point other than continued to hope that the team gets out of its collective slump before it’s too late. I will say, when I went over to get my morning coffee today, it happens to be at the same place in the offices where the team serves ice cream to the staff when we’re in first place. I had a very strange flashback to 17 days ago when a lot of so-called experts (and plenty of fans) had a great feeling about this team and the club led the NL in wins. It’s amazing how quickly things can change, even though the team is essentially the exact same as it was then.

I know that we dealt Wilson Betemit and that in hindsight, it would have been nice if he was still here with Nomar now hurt, but hindsight is not something that any GM gets when they make a deal. So, we move on…and we are doing so tonight with this lineup:

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Kent, 2B

Loney, 1B

Martin, C

Gonzo, LF

Hillenbrand, 3B

Penny, P

526 Comments

Want to be the first to say. Go out and sign or trade for a true franchise player next season Frankie. Someone who can hit 30-40 home runs.

And taking Ethier out of the lineup helps how?

Good to see things are back to normal, Pierre in the 2 spot and Gonzo instead of Ethier, oh, and Hillenbrand at 3rd. Whew, for a moment i thought Grady was coming to his senses. Obviously there is still no need to panic in Grady’s and Ned’s world. Go Dodgers!!!

alex, no need for Ethier in the line up, you have Shea and Gonzo, our offensive woes are over!!

It’s time to turn this ship around, let’s get some wins under our belt and start making up ground we’ve lost from Arizona.
Josh – What happened to the link to Alyssa’s blog on the front page? Did her open letter to Grady ruffle feathers? She has some pretty insightful things to say, just my 2 cents.

GO BLUE!!!

well

brady penny starts tonight. and wen a team is struggling they always look to their best pitcher to help turn the team around. and the bats came alive a little yesterday, getting a run in 3 of the last 4 inninngs. so hopefully things are looking up. HERE’S TO CATCHING THE D BACK’S…GO DODGERS!!!

Great to see Ethier on the bench again!

It makes sense in Grady Little’s World!

Does Grady actual believe starting Gonzo over Ethier is giving this team the best offensive and defensive chance to win tonight?

Beyond Belief!

As for Betemit it is not hindsight when you trade Betemit despite the fact that both Kent and Abreu were hurt prior to the deadline.

Thus, we are forced to have Ramon Martinez play 2B everyday for a week.

For that reason alone Betemit had to be kept!

It is also hard to believe that the MOST POWERFUL LINEUP in baseball the Yankees can play Betemit at 2B and on a regular basis, but the LEAST POWERFUL LINEUP in baseball does not have a spot for Betemit!

Come on Colletti, you have to do better than this!

Actually, Josh, it would be nice if LaRoche didn’t have a back problem. He will make the Betemit trade moot.

Can someone please explain to this dumb Australian how replacing Eithier with Gonzo is putting our best line-up out there to support our best pitcher. I realise Grady is a “passive” manager but I think he’s fallen asleep at the wheel.

And somebody said earlier that a manager doesn’t make a difference… Ha!!!! Grady is just not the right man for this job.

It makes sense, the guy that makes the most money plays. I think Gonzo needs some of that juice he was drinking when he hit the 57 homeruns, he might even be able to throw the trash out.

Actually I apologize, Ethier is 2 for 13 against Jennings, Hillenbrand is actually 11 for 34 against Jennings. While Gonzo is 8 for 39, so from a numbers standpoint starting Gonzo does make sense. From a reality standpoint, Ethier should never sit. But at least I can understand it now.

At least the craptacular Gonzo is now hitting 7th.

alex, that’s all well and good that you did your research, but this team is stagnant, no offense, Ethier gives us a better chance with his bat, glove, arm and speed. Ethier’s avg. comes to .154 Gonzo’s .205, *** for tat..

Grady is a tool. If you have to play Gonzo (and I can’t figure out why you’d have to play him) then sit Pierre not Either. Also if Ned trades for Contreras he deserves all the flack he gets.

Numbers, numbers!

How are they PLAYING now!

How can you bench your leading batter?

Bill, any thoughts?

Grady is a dull tool.

see bill?

can u explain why ethier gets a rest… are u going to put the hot bat in ur bench to get some ice?

and why gonzo gets a start even if he was struggling?

unbelievable…

Hey–at least no one can complaint that Ethier is still hitting 8th!

Seriously, what the heck? I love Matt Kemp–that’s your franchise player. But he’s not there yet, and it’s awfully hard to justify starting him over Ethier, who is scorching the ball.

Of course, it does not make sense to start Gonzo over Ethier, and Gonzo was big for us all first-half.

Sorry, espescially to Bill who is amazingly positive right now. A lot of people criticized Grady when we were in first. I have not thought that Grady was doing so bad, but right now he’s got to put it all on the line. Ethier’s the best hitter on the team, and he has to play. Kemp is the biggest potential power threat on the team, and he has to play. LaRoche should be eligible off the AAA 7-day DL tomorrow (he went on August 9, I believe). He’ll play at least a couple of games in Las Vegas. But they have to give him the shot 3B while Nomar is out. Hillenbrand at this point in his career is only slightly better for starting purposes than Ramon Martinez (and less versatile for utility role–I thought he was a September call-up for a PH option–or maybe would get activated a day or two before, just to be eligible on the post-season roster (if such a thing is possible anymore).

I’ve been positive all year. I still believe in this team. It has all the talent necessary to win (or most of it–the injuries to the starting rotation have been tough, but that’s not even where we’ve been losing). The young guys are great. The old guys should still be good enough to lead us through.

But I was at last night’s game. The sixth inning was like torture. If they made the prisoners at Guantanomo watch that, it would violate the Geneva Convention. Then you had the game ender. I remain speechless about that.

With Gonzo in left and Pierre in center and Ethier on the bench it is hard to hang in there.

Oh, no I’m sorry if I misled anyone… Ethier should never sit unless he’s played a ton of games in a row and needs a day off. This is though without a doubt the worst defensive outfield we could put out there.

All i know is that if I’m Phil Garner i’m telling my boys, “anything hit to left or center, is an extra base” Run, run, run..

lol leekfink

Kiper where have you been.?

I’m here now..

So, the Snakes DFA’d Kim and Kennedy, needless to say those waiver wire pick ups didn’t quite work out for them…

I predict Penny throws a no hitter tonight, he is due.

There’s only one problem with looking at career matchups like Gonzo against Jennings. This is no longer that career numbers Gonzo that we’re dealing with. He doesn’t seem to have any bat speed and no drive off the bat. It’s just a slap and flail attempt that I now see on his part. The pride and the willingness is still there, but he can’t do it any more. It’s already been too long a season. If Ethier and Kemp are both not in there every day, there is no commitment on this management’s part to play the best players or to win.

regarding the stats alex, that includes gonzo at his prime which he is far from now. Personally I would prefer an outfield of Gonzo, kemp and ethier. how in the heck has pierre earned the right to play every day. josh is it in his contract that we have to play him everyday to keep a silly streak up?

Maybe the Dodgers should DFA guys like Tomko and Saenz in hopes of sabotaging a competitor who picks them up?

californiaautobuilder, now that’s a prediction. Even though these days predicting a Dodger win is just as bold, why not? I’m with you.. Go Penny!!!

Penny will throw a no-hitter and get a no decision.

I predict a gigantic game from Jeff Kent and I’m going out on a limb here…bold prediction Pierre gets an RBI too.

jennings is a sinkerballer which lefties tend to hit well so as many lefties as possibly should be playing. ugh oh well. i really wish kennedy was going to get the manager job. listening to him you can tell he actually “gets” this team and its problems. i don’t think grady has a clue.

jhall you took the words right out of my mouth!

the dodgers need to score about 10 runs tonight, and then another 8 tomorrow and win both games. And on the weekend sweep the rockies, how’s that for a prediction.

Great to see Andre has hit his way right out of the lineup. Penny no hitter great prediction, the only problem is we would be going to ninth needing a run.

i predict Kemp getting an error… then hitting a grand slam…

Let’s see if we can’t get some real positive vibes going here today. The Dodgers win today and tomorrow, they sweep the Rockies over the weekend and by Monday we’re 3 back of the Dacks. Now, for this to happen we need help from management; Grady, keep Gonzo on the bench for a few days, drop Pierre back to 8th and Ethier in the line up every day. Ned; DFA either Saenz or Martinez and bring up LaRoche and maybe Houlton.. We can do this together!!!

Not sure who the poster was, but who ever said Kemp looked like he was locked in on Monday night, was right on the money last night!

Props to You!

I predict Pierre hitting a monster line drive down the leftfield line for his first homerun. Tipping off the 3rd basemans glove and the leftfielders glove into the first row.

that was A_Rod lover van 19

…and why isn’t Penny batting 8th? ;)Does he have the best batting avg. in this lineup or close to it? a little tongue in cheek, but still the same.

I’m behind you all the way Kiper, but they better hurry up and bring Young back up before he gets one of those mysterious sports hernias from performing well and getting sent down.

I think Grady doesn’t want the veterans to feel bad seeing Ethier hit the ball so well and so he’s trying to cool him off.

Jennings lifetime at Dodger Stadium:

1-6 but only a 3.88 ERA in 10 games, he also has only given up 2 HR’s here.

This season Jennings against lefties has a .301 BAA with 4 HR’s, while against righties .294 BAA with 11 HR’s. Jennings has also given up 23 runs in the 1st inning, so if you’re going to get to him it’s probably early. If he settles in, we’re not going to get anything off of him. So, if we can actually score, look for it to be early, if we don’t…Penny may need that no-hitter.

scott, let’s hope Gonzo has a 3 for 4 with 3 rbi’s, then that way he doesn’t play tomorrow.

yeah it was me mpdclarke…

i really think he got his swing back…

I’ve been a Dodger fan all my life and I’ve never seen anything like this. We can speculate on lineup changes or who to trade or release until the season ends, but the bottom line is this. If the guys Grady puts on his lineup card don’t do what they’re supposed to it ain’t gonna matter. I’ve felt since before the season started the Dodgers needed at least one big bat and for whatever reason they couldn’t get one. I’m not giving up on this season, but unless something changes FAST its gonna be a long long winter.

I agree, somebody said yesterday, we don’t even have the lakers to look forward too.

it’s simple people…

Ethier needs rest from getting those hits and running the bases.

also, maybe it’s part of a health plan. this way, there’s no way players get too much ice-cream and clog their arteries.

Too much Kiper…

Well, time to go and hopefully tomorrow weeeeee’ll all be talking about Kemp’s 2 HR’s and Penny’s No-No.

Go Dodgers! and Go Grady as in go, get lost!

Jspelk —

You mentioned Kevin Kennedy in your post… When he talks about the games you get the sense that he is frustrated with the way the team in being managed — much the same as many of us…

Last nite he said that all the meetings that Grady is having are basically useless… He also said that each player needs to take resposibility for himself & do whats best for the team at each & every at bat… But the thing that he had the strongest feelings about was the fact that Ethier NEEDS TO PLAY EVERYDAY… Grady , on the other hand doesn’t feel that way….

I’ll be Kennedy is really frustrated today when he sees the lineup — just as we all are..

I have said it for over a year now — Grady LittleLeague Gump is a complete fool who just doesn’t know how to manage a major league team…

Here’s something.. let’s suppose that this line up is succesful tonight and they put together 12 to 14 hits and they score 6 or 7 runs and the Dodgers win. What are the chances that Grady pencils in the same guys tomorrow? This is a legit question.

Well a lefty is pitching tomorrow, but IF we do well tonight, Grady probably just swaps Gonzo out for Ethier. That probably happens regardless of tonight. Like was said above, the players still have to get the hits.

As long as we’re in free fall, and Grady insists on changing the lineup EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DAY, ad nauseum, why not give our All-Star catcher two or three days off in row. Seriously. Like we’re going to play any worse? This kid needs a breather…he’s a shadow of the player he was the first half.

Josh-The hindsight comment is all well and good, but given Garciaparra’s injury past, Furcal injuring every part of his body the last 2 seasons, Kent being a 39 year old 2B and only Martinez as a layer of protection, it made too much sense to keep Betemit.

I know it’s your job, being that you’re a PR guy, to put the best possible light on things and I appreciate this blog and forum.

californiaautorebuilder

i think the lakers will be just fine…

they don’t need JO…

Odom has the same numbers…

anyway…

i really think Kemp will hit another HR today…

I hope penny hits his 1st HR… lol

It’s getting to the point to where i hope we lose every game from now on just so Grady and Ned can be fired. It’s ridiculous how badly managed this team is managed.

Alex Rodriguez will opt out of his contract. That’s for sure. Frank McCourt needs to open his wallet and pay A-Rod !! We are the freaking Dodgers. Almost 4 million people come to the stadium every single year since he has owned the team!! Dodger fans deserve a Hal of Fame type player!!

*Hall of Fame

Here’s for hoping Brad Penny will take us out of this horrid slump.

I just cant understand how Furcal keeps leading games off.

One more thing, why is Rafael Furcal playing ? It’s obvious the guy needs to rest that ankle! Why not just put him on the 15 day DL and let him rest for 2 weeks. Bring up Chin-Lung Hu and let the kid play every day. When the 15 days passes, put back Furcal in the starting line up and I guarantee he will have an explosive September!

No one seems to remember how well Wilson Valdez played in the beginning of the year, I would much rather have him or Hu in the lineup these days. Trade Furcal open up a spot for Arod next year.

Holy cow, did everybody here about what Jose Offerman did in a Independant League game last night?

Most of his at bats lately he is bailing out of the box throwing the bat at that outside pitch or trying to hit the ball out of the park. It is pretty ugly to watch.

Nomar should have pulled an Offerman the other night, that might of lite a fire under these guys.

I think we can sit here all day and all season and question all of the bad moves management has made and never come to a conclusion. What we have to do, is continue to support the Dodgers and continue to believe that they will get it turned around REAL soon. If and when the turn around happens it will be with Furcal and Kent and Gonzo and Pierre and Saenz and Martinez and all the kids and Martin playing tired. We need to just accept the fact that this is Grady’s style and the team has to find a way to win in spite of him.

Also, Kennedy mentioned that he heard from those who travel with the team that there is NO leaderhip with the vets on this team at all. We all know Kent doesn’t talk to anyone, Nomar is not a “rah rah” type guy, and Gonzo is better suited at playing team dad to the kids that anything else. Kennedy said that someone needs to get in people’s faces, and get in kids faces when they make mistakes too. Theres no leadership from the vets, and theres no leadership from the manager. Its not the sole reason why they are failing, but you can be sure its a reason.

Speaking of managers, Joe Girardi worked miracles with the kids on the Marlins…and he’s available. AND he’s an ex-catcher, who seem to make pretty darm good managers: Scioscia, Torre, Boche, even Kevin Kennedy. It’s not like I have an ax to grind with Grady, but two years in a row his team has done an absolute nose dive. How can ANY player trust this guy to handle a similar plunge in the future?

Ironic isn’t it.

The justification by PR spin master Coletti for bringing in Veterans was because of their expierance and leadership.

And now the dodgers cant even sign their number 1 draft choice over a hundread thousand dollars, yet have no problme paying Bill Mueller and Brett Tomko a combined 10 million dollars to play hitting coach and battered 5th starter.

I just hope the bats wake up from their slumber, and give Penny plenty of defensive, & run support tonight. We need to break out of this funk in a huge way. Team morale has got to be near, if not at an all time low.

sorry, over 400k. which McCourt makes a night on PARKING.

The club couldn’t reach an agreement with fifth-rounder Kyle Blair, the right-hander who now will go to the University of San Diego. It is believed that the final proposal from Blair and his representatives was a $1.1 million signing bonus, which is well above slot for a fifth-rounder, but Blair was considered a legitimate first-rounder who fell in the draft because of perceived signability issues (he initially let it be known he was seeking $1.5 million. But the Dodgers ultimately decided that was more money than they were willing to commit.

right, we basically waste money on garbage but no one complains about it because we have the money to spend. like our team wouldn’t be complete with out the nomars, gonzos of the world, even though their production could have been equalled or surpassed by players we already have making 350K.

Oh this is a great read from Jon Weisman at dodger thoughts. http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/

Again, let’s reiterate. It’s not that the Dodgers don’t have the money to spend. It’s that they choose to spend it on declining or completely declined players. They choose to spend big chunks on low- or no-ceiling players like Martinez, Valdez, Hillenbrand, Mark Hendrickson ($2.925 million this season) and Brett Tomko (nearly $10 million guaranteed for 2006-2008, even if they buy out his 2008 option) – players that anyone can see are of minimal help. They would rather eat crackers for dinner than take a chance that for the same amount of money, they might end up with steak – if they could show the slightest bit of patience and discipline.

I talked to some friends of mine that have seen Kennedy manage and they said “it is easy for Kennedy to “manage” behind his mike” and “trust me, you do not want him”

In regards to Blair, if Logan White let him go, then I can let it go. I trust him with young talent and if he let him go it’s all right with me.

He also let Luke Hochevar go as well, like I said I trust Logan White.

Yeah I think u have to read between the lines a little on this Alex.

They new what that were getting into when they drafted him or White wouldn’t have drafted him. If they didn’t plan on meeting his asking price, they shouldn’t have drafted him. They threw a pick away and thre a potential young talented arm away for 400k.

Kevin Kennedy won a Cal league title in A-ball in Bakersfield when they had the B-Dodgers years ago. Didn’t do much in the bigs though did he. Dodger5 you got it right. It’s easy to manage behind a mike. Look at Bob Brenly. He stepped in dung, and came out smelling like a rose with all the talent he had with the Dbacks when they won the series years back. He got more credit then he deserved. Now he’s a broadcaster for the cubs.

He didn’t let Hovechar go. We didnt meet their asking price. Those are not the same things.

I’ll be at Shea , Aug 24th, 25th & 26th Rooting on THIS team. I wondering if Lasorda will make this trip to New York, if he does, he usually goes to Bamonte’s in Brooklyn after a day game, The 25th is a day game. I might check him out there. I only hope the Dodgers are out of this funk by then.__________I generally don’t pick up comments to me until later at night, when I go over them. To dodgerdude_17: What I said about grounding out to shortstop, happened after I’d been playing awhile. I think the trouble started, when somebody figured out how to pitch to me and make me do just that. Pitchers would throw it right down the middle, I’d swing and the ball would go right to the shortshort. Anyway it’s too late for advice now, since that happened over 40 years ago. ___________to old___fogey__la: I remember the trade that brought Ventura to the Dodgers, but is there a possiblity that Proctor pitch for the Dodgers during spring training, that year?______Lastly, What happened to Alysis Milano’s Blog?… Anybody? HOPING PENNY SHOWS HIS SHINY SIDE TONIGHT AND THE DODGERS BRING SOME GOOD BATS. GO BLUE!!!!

Not all draft picks are signed, I’m sure there’s more to the story indeed. If White didn’t sign Blair, I trust it was the right decision. His track record is too good not to be trusted with all of his decisions.

Mr. White didn’t let Blair go. Colletti did. He’d rather spend the 1.1 million next year to resign Gonezo

Well, Jungar then it’s the same thing we didn’t want to meet Blair’s demands. So we let him go, for whatever reasons those may be. I defer to I trust Logan White.

Find me a source that says it’s Colletti’s fault we didn’t sign Blair. Just one and I’ll agree…

maybe it makes sense to Grady to have a good left hander off the bench…. I know it doesnt make sense to me either. just trying to find some way of justifying it to myself. Im sure we’ll see Ethier in a patented Grady little double switch.

well I like White but its not like he’s mistake proof. 2004–the first rounders were Elbert (who if not for injury would be considered a very good choice), Dewitt who the jury is still largely out on, and Orenduff, who probably isn’t going anywhere. In 2005 we didn’t sign Hochevar and the guy who will mostly likely reach the majors out of this draft is Meloan, who while good, will be a relief pitcher. 2006–Obviously Kershaw looks great so far, Morris needed TJ, so we’ll see how that goes. So far White has lived off of his 2002/2003 drafts, which were amazing. If we couldn’t pony up a could extra 100K’s for first round talent but we’re paying roster fodder on the major league team millions, its sorta silly.

Also, I don’t think it needs to be anybodies fault Blair didn’t sign. Blair’s reps and the Dodgers couldn’t agree on a number. Negotiations failed, end of story. It’s not the first time, nor the last.

If Logan White had the final say Kyle Blair would have been signed.

“After heated, desperate negotiations between the Dodgers, Hochevar and his agent, Scott Boras, Hochevar suddenly switched agents to Matt Sosnick, accepted a $2.98 million signing bonus from scouting director Logan White, then returned to Boras the next day and reneged on the deal.”

So the talent guy (white) was trying hard to sign him but Boras/Ownership says no.

Same for Blair. (Well that’s my conjecture, no source yet, but I am sure it will come out soon.)

Thank you max. Exactly.

“If Logan White had the final say Kyle Blair would have been signed.”

im sure too that it was ownership, not white who refuses to pony up for Blair.

I’ll wait as well for all the facts to come out about the failure to sign Blair. But, I still don’t find it necessary to blame anybody on the Dodgers for failure to sign him. Be it White, Colletti, Ng, whomever…it was a collective disappointment to not be able to come to terms with Blair.

sangabrielad–Don’t get too down on Josh for justifying the Betemit trade but regretting it in hindsight. I think it’s pretty clear that when we made the deal, we were expecting Andy LaRoche to be the fallback if Nomar got hurt (like Loney was, until Loney proved too good to stop–which maybe Andy will too). So it’s really bad luck to lose Nomar AND LaRoche in the same week.

pierreseastmeetswest–I was wondering about Alyssa Milano’s blog too. I looked ut up and it’s still on MLB.com, and you can find it there. But her last entry was pretty down on the Dodgers–she’s frustrated like all of us.

Curious what happened with Blair. It may be about a lot more than $400,000. Fifth rounders don’t usually get seven figure bonuses, so who knows what we were offering. Might be a real bad move for us–might be a bad move for Blair. If he does not perform well at USD, his draft value will fall off quicker than our average with RISP. So, it sounds bad, but there is still not enough information to really know.

I’m not calling for managerial heads. I’ve thought Grady has done pretty well both last year and into this year, and never got a fair shake in Boston. I admit that he’s perplexing me with his moves, but I’m not going to get on the dump Grady bandwaggon (sorry Jungar, I am still resisting Emperor Palpatine). But if we are talking about replacements, Scioscia is obviously the first choice (or first ten choices), but I doubt he ever leaves Anaheim. And, as much as I like Kevin Kennedy as an analyst, I really think that the right choice would be the Arizona Bench Coach–Kirk Gibson.

Someone predicted penny will pitch a no hitter tonight . probably loose 1 to 0

Ethier on the bench is crazy! why? grittle defitnetly has something against him.

i didn’t even notice Gonezo was in the lineup over Ethier. I guess we have to rely on injuries to get out best players out there. Grady is a joke. So is NED! REGIME CHANGE REGIME CHANGE REGIME CHANGE!

hahahaha

KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!!KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!!KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!!KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!!!KIRK GIBSON in 08’!!!

we need some guys that bleed blue running this team. Not an old giant and red ***

give the manager job to Shoemaker and make Logan White out GM!!!

Bobby Valentine!

I want an ex dodger that played under tommy!

Come on guys Ethier has been playing practically every day its ok that he gets ONE day off.

Seeing Ethier out of the line-up and Pierre back to the 2 spot makes does not inspire me at all. I like Gonzo pushed down but why does Grady talk tough about Pierre and only put him down for like 3 games?! I just don’t get it. The Furcal/Pierre experiment should’ve ended months ago. SO FRUSTRATED WITH THIS TEAM! That is all I have.

Mickey Hatcher?

so has Pierre why not sit him? what about Furcal?

Ethier can’t play EVERY DAY. We have alot of outfielders and its ok that he gets a day off every once in a while.

Tommy Lasorda is an over-rated manager. I don’t understand why you want someone that played under Lasorda.

why has Pierre played every single game in a more demanding position?

LaSorda overrated? Get the heck out of this Dodger blog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH GRADY!!!! HES A GOOD EXPERIENCED SKIPPER!!!! YOU GUYS SHOULD STOP SECOND GUESSING HIM ON EVERYTHING!!!

hey 16 year old kid you should be playing baseball that’s how you learn the game. You wouldn’t know what a good manager is you haven’t seen one!

Pierre does not sit the bench, now get over it. It was probably a bad sign, but good god, let this **** rest about JP.

Why should I get the heck out of this Dodger blog ? I’m a big Dodger fan, been so all my life.

It’s funny how even if you are a fan of the Dodgers, you can’t critize your own team. Wow!

I do play baseball and I have seen almost every Dodger game since 2004. Please im just stating my opinion that Grady is doing fine and its not his fault.

you critized Tommy you don’t critize a hall of fame legend!

I’ve seen every Dodger game since they invented Fox Sports West 2! My point you haven’t seen a good manager.

Wow whoever said Lasorda was overrated either owes this blog an apology or should go check out the Giants blog because that is about the only way you’ll get anybody to ever agree with you.

Why can’t I criticize him ? Who are you to tell me what not to say. It’s my opinion that he was a over-rated manager. Now get over it.

Maybe there is some glaring detail that I am missing? Can you please explain to me again whats so bad about Grady. I just don’t see it.

Yes cody ross 3 run homer
the marlins are back in it trailing AZ 5-4

were you around in 88′. That was the greates managerial performance that I ever witnessed. Beating the Mighty Mets and The juiced up A’s. Overrated are you serious? Why?

Hey charris1010321 I’m not here for people to agree with me or not. Someone said they should get someone that played for Lasorda. I gave my opinion. What’s the big deal ?

Actually, I agree that Lasorda is overrated by some. Yes, he won sometimes. He sure burned out a lot of pitching arms doing it though.

Yeah nice 3 run HR Cody!

Please explain why you think my hero Tommy LaSorda is overrated!

Roberto, thats like saying Kurt Gibson’s Home Run in ’88 was no big deal. It’s blasphemy in Dodgerland, you’re entitled to your opinion but I wonder how many people on the Yankees blog say that Torre is overrated? I bet it doesn’t happen often if ever at all.

Hey diehardblu, Yeah I was there in ’88 I know what he did. I do believe he was a good manager. All I said was that he was over-rated. That’s all I said. I never said he was a terrible manager.

You guys really think Tommy is overrated? I’m shocked! I’m curios what do you guys think of grady?

fogey, the game has changed so much since Lasorda coached that its tough to blame him for blowing out arms, look at the era he played in.

What about the late 70’s or the early 80’s? what about 81′

Lasorda wasn’t the greatest manager ever but he was a great one.

Lasorda didn’t do a good job with the pitchers. Ask Valenzuela what he thinks about Lasorda ? Ask Ramon Martinez (the pitcher of 90’s) what he thinks of Lasorda.

pierreseastmeetswest: Proctor got to AAA with the Dodgers, so he likely was seen in Spring Training 2000-2003, when he wasn’t injured. He played A ball for the Vero Beach Dodgers in ’00 and ’01.

What about the 70’s and early 80’s ? How many championships did we get ? JUST 1 !

what Ramon Martinez was our Ace Tommy had nothing to do with his arm troubles. I love Fernando maybe if he stayed in shape he wouldn’t be bitter and not have arm problem’s

Roberto you’re talking about guys that pitched a fragment of his long, long tenure as a manager. Yes he overused pitchers but so did the vast majority of the league in the era he came from.

The Los Angeles Dodgers of the 1970s were a team of winners. Three National League pennants and three appearances in the World Series (1974, 1977 and 1978) along with 910 victories (second-best decade in Dodger history) are certainly enough credentials for a successful decade.

god darn angels are costing me money tonight. they can’t score either.

Of course it was a succesful decade. But Lasorda came in the year of ’77 So what does that have to do with Lasorda ?

Roberto you can think that LaSorda was overrated but this is the wrong place to say it.

Ask Tom Niedenfuer about Lasorda – 106 IP in 1985, no wonder he had nothing left when he pitched to Jack Clark.

Fernando was never nearly the same after he fell to injury in ’88, at the age of 27, after averaging over 260 IP for six straight seasons.

Orel had a significant drop off after his 1990 injury at age 31, after averaging over 250 IP for five seasons.

This team needs someone like Lasorda now to motivate them. I remember the good old days when you could hear him cussing, and scolding players from the dugout when they had a mental lapse, and screwed a play up. He could make a sailor blush. But, he would give praise to the players with just as much passion. He knew how to motivate the guys. Who to kick, and whom to hug if you will. One thing was certain with Lasorda – Defensively the team was much more solid than today. Most fans today could care less about defense. All they care about is Home Runs, and offense.

Roberto you can think that LaSorda was overrated but this is the wrong place to say it.

Posted by: swood@rcn.com | August 15, 2007 06:26 PM

I would let Josh Rawitch be the judge of that.

I knew Ramon personally, been to his house before when he was with the Dodgers. He hated Lasorda. I mean just hated the guy. Don’t even ask his brother Pedro what he thinks about Lasorda.

Why is it the wrong place to say it ?

what do you mean old fogey?

Its nothing against you… I just think that this is a blog full of veteran dodger fans who love LaSorda. Im actually surprised that more people aren’t mad about that.

Pitches thrown in Billingsley’s last 6 starts: 113, 110, 114, 108, 100, 116.

Russell Martin: Most games started by a catcher in the Majors. Has struggled lately, and one can’t help but think the lack of rest has something to do with it.

We gotta take care of our young guys better than this.

leekfink: Blair is a first-round talent, generally considered to be around the same level as Withrow. The only reason he was still on the board in the fifth round was the signability issue. Presumably the Dodgers drafted him that high because they thought their odds of signing him were very good. They must have underestimated, but I don’t understand how since around $1 million is about slot money for his expected draft position in the first round based on talent alone.

Turns out now, it’s just a wasted fifth round pick.

swood: it’s Josh’s blog. He can decide if this is the wrong place to say something or not. He already decreed that this is the wrong place to use foul language, for example.

I’m a veteran Dodger fan. Just because you are a veteran fan does not mean you are going to love Lasorda.

I’m hoping the Marlins beat up on the Dbacks tonight. Not looking good so far. Every time the Marlins get close, the snakes bite them for more runs.

Agreed but I just figured the majority of the veteran dodger fans loved LaSorda.

Hey dodgerdude, I agree about Martin. He needs the rest.

charris: Sparky Anderson, managing in the same era as Lasorda, was known for his quick hook. (Although Sparky probably burned out a few middle relievers in his time also. What the heck, middle relievers are a fungible commodity anyway!)

Penny wise and pound foolish – that’s my take on the missed opportunity with Blair, and that is so COLLETTI. You can see that application time and again. Where’s the $14 million spent on Schmidt, dummy?
I’m also fully on board with the Gibson for manager suggestion. We need somebody who understands and who lived the Dodger tradition.

LOGAN WHITE IN 2008!!!

Now let’s go out and win a few!!!

jjriley22: “One thing was certain with Lasorda – Defensively the team was much more solid than today.”

Are you kidding? I SAW Russell and Lopes play middle infield. Ever seen Garvey throw? His range wasn’t that good either. Neither was Cey’s. Yeager was great. Tommy was always willing to sacrifice some defense for some offense, esp. power, which is okay by me. Heck, Tommy tried Pedro Guerrero at CF, 3B and even, for a couple game (and I saw them) 2B!

Dodgerdude I agree with you. Martin is overworked, and needs a break. But, Liberthal doesn’t handle the pitching staff as well, and is inconsistent as well. The only pitcher he worked well with was Wolf, and he’s on the DL.

My time as a Dodger fan spans quite a few years, and I had the greatest respect for Walter Alston. Tommy would clearly be my next choice.

Kevin Kennedy on Dodgers Live just threw up his hands and said ” why isn’t Ethier in the lineup”…

He said it should be a “NO BRAINER” haiving Ethier in everyday….

Problem is – he assumes the Dodger Manager has a brain…

Bad assumption ….

messagebear: Logan White was in charge of the Blair negotiations. (Now, I’ll bet Ned Colletti sets White’s signing budget…..)

My time as a Dodger fan spans quite a few years, and I had the greatest respect for Walter Alston. Tommy would clearly be my next choice.

My time as a Dodger fan spans quite a few years, and I had the greatest respect for Walter Alston. Tommy would clearly be my next choice.

Posted by: messagebear@yahoo.com | August 15, 2007 06:39 PM

I think I agree with you! Of course the other LA Dodger managers were Bill Russell, Dave Johnson, Glenn Hoffmann, Jim Tracy, and now Grady Little, so that’s some pretty slim pickings.

If there were to be a manager change in the offseason, I’d want Girardi over Kennedy.

Wow, how come there isn’t an uproar over Lowes comments today. From last nights blog:

“To go with a total youth movement is not fair to the veterans, and not fair to the city,” Lowe said. “I am a firm believer that you use the minor league system to help the major league team now. You try to win today, and four years from now, you will probably have a kid just as good as the one you got rid of.”

What are the vets winnign today Lowe? Its ridiculous! How could he sit here adn say this when they can’t get the job done? Thats crazy! Is anyone else not outraged by this? Not fair? Since when is this game supposed to be fair???

Tommy Lasorda is also responsible for Konerko/Shaw and certainly had major input into Pedro/Delino (Fred Claire was NOT the talent evaluator!).

oldfogey, the amount of errors, and mental lapses was much less than what we see today. Any time Furcal gets the ball, I hold my breath like I did when Sax was playing wondering where the ball will eventually wind up. I would put Lopes, and Russell over Kent, and Furcal any day defensively. Cey was limited in his range. I do agree on that.

Plaschke actually had a nice comeback for Lowe when he got those quotes (from today’s LA Times):

The Seattle Mariners, desperate for a closer at the trading deadline [ten years ago], dealt two of their best prospects to the Boston Red Sox for reliever Heathcliff Slocumb.

The Mariners won one postseason game that year, and have yet to reach the World Series.

Those two prospects who were traded to a Red Sox team that finished 20 games out of first place?

Future World Series championship players Jason Varitek and, um, er, Derek Lowe.

“Well, yeah,” Lowe said.

P.S. I don’t think Derek Lowe is one of the great thinkers of modern times. Good think he got blessed with a major league arm.

messagebear, I agree with you. Alston was the best manager this club’s ever had, with Lasorda second.

jjriley22, Russell had a scatterarm too, without Furcal’s gun, and with less range. I’ll take Furcal in a heartbeat. Both Lopes and Russell were converted OFs and it showed. The problem with Kent is that he is OLD, but Lopes averaged nearly 20 errors a season. Loney is a slick all-around 1B; Garvey could catch, couldn’t throw.

Mental lapses are Dodger heritage and tradition!!! ALL Dodger teams lead the league in those!

LaSorda career .526
Little with Dodgers .527

old fogey is much too easy on LaSorda- he campaigned for Pedro to be traded (too thin, not strong enough, not tall enough)I almost fainted when I heard about the trade. He had no patience with young players.

The Dodgers could not agree to terms with right-hander Kyle Blair, their fifth-round selection in this year’s amateur draft out of Los Gatos High, before Wednesday night’s deadline for signing 2007 draft picks. As a result, Blair will honor his scholarship to the University of San Diego and be ineligible to re-enter the draft until the summer of 2010.

The Dodgers ultimately balked at giving Blair what was believed to be a $1.1 million signing bonus that was well beyond Major League Baseball’s prescribed range — or “slot” — for a fifth-rounder. But Blair would have gone in one of the first two rounds if clubs hadn’t been concerned with his signability after he let it be known before the draft he was seeking a bonus in the $1.5 million range.

“I think like any player, there was that goal on Kyle’s part of being a major-league baseball player,” said Brodie Van Wagenen, the New York-based agent who was advising Blair. “But now, he will have to delay that for three years before he has a chance to sign with a major-league organization. Kyle was prepared to not receive what he was looking for, and he is definitely ready to go on with his life.”

Dodgers assistant general manager Logan White said the negotiations ended amicably.

“We wish Kyle Blair the best and know he is going to have a good career,” White said.

“He is a good kid. I talked to Kyle, and there is disappointment all around that we weren’t able to get it done. But there certainly is a positive feeling toward Kyle, and I think he feels the same way toward us.”

I am now in agreement with those who hope that the team continues to do very poorly, thus forcing drastic changes at the end of the season…
Hopefully firing both Grady & Ned..

I really think this team is going to continue their pathetic play all on their own, no matter waht I feel or hope for…

A team that consists of Hendrickson, Tomko, Hernandez, Saenez, Martinez, Saenz, Hillenbrand, etc. LOSERS ALL, are not going anywhere but down anyway… So I’m sure that my wish will probably come true….

The Dodgers are wearing blue jackets with a small white LA just below the neck at home. Shouldn’t the blue jackets or wind breakers covering the uniform have the word DODGERS when they are at home? I have nothing against LA, but maybe even to change the luck, go back to DODGERS.

Note, Russell’s scatterarm got worse after his middle finger on the throwing hand got mashed by a pitch. He also made a lot of errors.

Russell From 1972 – 1983:

34, 31, 39, 11 (83 games), 28, 29, 31, 30, 19, 14 (80 games), 29, 22

Furcal from 2000 – present:

24, 11 (79 games), 27, 31, 24, 15, 27, on pace for 25-26.

i posted the low comment last night. i dont know why people didn’t get angry about it but i did. I get that Lowe isn’t the brightest man in the world, and Im sure some of the other veterans on the squad echo his sentiments. But really, Im suprised he didn’t suggest a trade himself. Its pretty ironic considering its been the veteran players that have failed this team.

riley: I assume by this club you mean the LA Dodgers because the Brooklyn Dodgers has Dressen,Durocher, and Shotton.

oldfogey, I guess the next thing you’ll tell me is Furcal is worth the amount of $$$ spent on him. Do you actually believe that? Face it Pierre, and Furcal both are paid waaay too much for what they bring to the club.

After tonight the Dodgers will be at .500 or above.500 after 120 games.

You got it miketink. More championships since the move to LA.

I agree Spelk. Just like Kevin Kennedy said. If he was manager, he is putting his best 9 players on the field to win the game. If someone has a problem with it, they need to check their egos at the door. Vet or not. Can’t believe he said that.

Here we go! Go Blue!Food for thought. Carlos Lee is .600 lifetime against Penny.

Pierre leads the Dodgers with a .347 avg. in August.

riley:didn’t grasp your comment-LA Dodgers have had only 2 managers of consequence and of the 2 Tommy is second.Noone could argue with that. But the Brooklyn Dodgers had 3 managers better than Tommy.

He was safe. Come on Grady show some fire and defend your players.

Bad call!! He was safe. We can’t catch a break..

pierre was safe…that ump needs to be slapped

Mariano should have Jose Offerman’d that ump

I told you the umps hate Pierre. His stats still wouldn’t be good, but he’s had at least 10 hits stolen from him by the umps this year that I’ve seen.

nice Kemp!

no reason why that shouldnt have been cought. i get tire of people saying that those kind of plays are difficult. no excuse for a major leaguer to miss that.

game over good night lol

tired*

Gonzo couldn’t throw out a statue.

Gonzo’s arm is beyond pathetic. Gonzo’s triplets could have thrown Carlos Lee out.

Dbacks won over the Marlins – final. I’d hate to see falling back another game.

nice pathetic 3-1 swing Jeff

Way to go Martin!

russ just tied the game…i heart martin!

MARTIN’S 13th HR

Nice Russ!

Hillenbrand looks at one go right down the middle.

Great job Russell!! Tired swing, huh??

Shea blows!

Hillenbrand looked asleep!

Houston is awesome!

oldfogey, I guess the next thing you’ll tell me is Furcal is worth the amount of $$$ spent on him. Do you actually believe that? Face it Pierre, and Furcal both are paid waaay too much for what they bring to the club.

Posted by: jjriley22@aol.com | August 15, 2007 07:08 PM

Stay on point man! Salary was never in the discussion! Neither was Jean Pedro, who has been discussed to death in every Dodger blog on the entire world wide web.

It’s hard to judge Furcal’s contract because it isn’t his fault that Jason Repko ruined his ankle, which has clearly hampered him this year. I think you’ll find that $13 million is not out of line for a quality SS that can lead off, OBP .350 or more (.367 last year), and have a .770s OPS (.814 last year).

They’re hitting Penny pretty hard for 3 innings. Ausmus heard his dugout, “Screaming?” last night after Pierre’s foul out.

How can Houston be awesome with that record? I may live in Texas now, but there’s no way I could root for a team named after a cartoon dog. See the Jetsons. Bad enough watching this on FSN Houston. Teir commentators **** immensely. I miss Vin Scully!!

Penny won’t last 5. Things looking weak again tonight.

I was being sarcastic about the Houston comment.

old-fogey–I understand Blair’s talent, and there is a good chance that everyone is rightly upset. But it’s hard to know what the state of the negotiations were. I’m just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, I did not realize that he is ineligible to be drafted for 3 years–frankly, it is a huge mistake for him to pass whatever bonus the Dodgers are offering him. The chances of injury are too great–not to mention the chance that he might turn out to be just a mediocre college pitcher, and never be a high draft choice (do they still call them “bonus baby”?) again.

Also, while not as good, as I understand it, the Dodgers get a compensation pick in the next draft. Not as good, but, again, giving them the benefit of the doubt here.

As for Lowe’s comments–he’s a fine pitcher, but a long history of not being the ideal thinking guy. Most of his mid-season swoons are attributable to a total lack of focus.

lol at Vin not pronouncing Ausmus’s name!

KEMP!!!!!!!!!! Lay off those!

BTW–everyone see Tony Jackson’s blog/tomorrow’s notebook. Good news about Tony Abreu (2-4 with a double) back playing in Vegas. Also, there is a write-up about Sweeney’s reaction to the play yesterday. I sure don’t like the play, but at least you have to give credit to Sweeney for being as mad about it as he was. If guys screw up, it’s good to know that it gets them as mad as we are.

BTW–is there any call Phil Garner won’t argue. That guy comes out of the dugout practically every inning, and is almost always wrong.

6 for 97 with a runner in scoring position, I think we can see that.

If they had a decent bullpen they would had won 65+ games now.

Jennings is a great pitcher.

How about you stop with that it hard to believe we are that in risp.

scurtis I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not?

Kent is a terrible fielder. He has no range and this year he has made alot of errors. When he’s not swinging a good bat he’s useless to us.

Houston has too many white guys

Nice exlax movement by Kent. When it rains it pours.

Gonzo is Bonds of 1991 NLCS there!

Is that Angie Everheart and Joe Pesci behind home plate?

OK boys time to get some runs.

Wow PENNY’s not really shinning.

You guys are gonna have to tell me about that Jeff Kent in my own words. Gosh I wish I could see that.

Yeah that is gonna be classic Jeff Kent.

His bat stinks right now.

I’ll tell ya Jennings has an ERA over six and we’re making him look like a cy young canidate. what a flipping disgrace.

The Dodgers are making it very easy to keep score.

JOSH

SORRY FOR CAPS – SO MANY POSTS, AND I WANT YOU TO READ THIS. PLEASE LOOK INTO DIFFERENT BLOGGING SOFTWARE THAT ALLOWS STRINGS OF REPLIES TO INDIVIDUAL POSTS – IT IS TOO TIME CONSUMING TO READ 400 POSTS EACH DAY, IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE ABLE TO READ THE CONVERSATIONS YOU’RE MOST INTERESTED IN.

Thanks.

^^ Not to mention, it would make it easier to keep track of who is responding to each post.

Those computer printouts that the Astros are using on PENNY must be exactly what the NL is using on the Dodger hitters.

Ok penny got out of a jam lets carry that momentum to the bottom of the inning.

Big at bat by Furcal here!

that ball was crushed by raffy

ya it seems like those always go to waste lately.

I think Kent needs to step up and become more of a team leader. I know thats a little out of character for him but I think the guys respect him and I think that would help the team.

The Dodgers have to make some adjustments it looks like everybody has there number. It’s getting to be a pattern for the hitters.

I meant the Dodgers are a pattern the hitting seems too easy to figure out. Everybody knows how to pitch to them, how to get them out.

PENNY is actually pitching a dandy, too bad we can do anything. It’ll be a while before he hits again so he’ll proberbly pitch some more.

You can’t criticize PIERRE’S hitting in this series.

Nice piece of hitting by Kemp. I hope Kent can bring them home.

They better score now.

Pierre is in the top ten in number of hits this year. He’s just not known for clutch hitting.

Glad we got at least a run.

L O N E Y

xxx

Dodger hitter with RISP this is where the inning will likely end.

YES RUSSELL!!!!1

OMG I HEART MARTIN!

Martin!!!!!!! Number 2! Penny can actually come out of this with a win.

MAAAAAAARRRRTIN. MY DAWG.

All Kids this inning.

All the KIDS finally get it done…..

M A R T I N MARTIN MARTIN OUR MAN BREAKS THE SPELL.

Don’t forget about Pierre. He’s kookin’ right now. haha

Don’t forget about Pierre. He’s kookin’ right now. haha

Zobeida are you o.k. ?

haha yes but i scared my neighbors because i was screaming so loud

Now lets get some insurance to give Penny a well deserved win.

Sure hope this means the funk is over. I can’t remember the last time this team scored 3 runs in an inning.

All right Van. Eat your words. You said Russell was tired and needed to sit some games out. Oh yes, tired. What if he did sit out?? We would be losing again. Yes, Russell, you the man!!!

The kids are changing the guard again tonight.

3 runs in an inning! We haven’t done that in 11 days!!!

Notice we haven’t heard anything from Max tonight. It is because Pierre has had a good game and he has nobody to rag on. haha

Let’s give Pierre credit please. Everyone is always down on him. Yes Russell, yes Pierre. Unfortunately I’m at work and have to find out about the game from friends calling me. Go Dodgers!!!

Hey, fellow American Dodger fans, what do you think of that Canadian boy, Russel Martin? The never say die Los Angeles Dodgers are back!Let’s not forget we have a fresh and rested Takahashi Saito.Ain’t no mountain high enough!Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go Dodgers!

11 days ago was also the last time that we hit more than one home run in a game.

Agreed completely xoxrussell, sorry to hear your at work. bummer.

Nice see Proctor get to do what we got him for.

Nice job by Proctor, and Ethier. Bring on Broxton, and Saito.

is it just me, or does Dodger stadium actually sound a bit loud tonight. Lets do this in spite of Grady guys!!! Nice to see Ethier back in the lineup… like I said earlier, in a patented double switch.

fezzik your killing me. in spite of Grady?

This move of ETHIER replacing the GONZ in left. Reminds me the Mets are pushing GREEN out of right for MILLEDGE, I can see these things happening here now.

The game isn’t over yet, but it feels like the spell may be broken. Way to go Pierre, and Kemp, and Loney, and especially MARTIN.
It’s still time for Colletti and Little to GO!!!

Furcal looks like he hurt himself more there. An insurance run would be nice here.

you people are killing me. messagebear do you actually think Grady is the reason this team isn’t in first place.

When I yell and clap and carry on Especially since I’ve been quiet lately, I’m suprised no calls the cops because I’m the only Dodger fan for miles.

Ned is not going anyway until 2009 or he’s get fired soon.

It’s way past time for Colletti and Little to go….

anyway=anywhere

nice job pierre!

What do you guys think the odds are Furcal goes on the DL soon, the way he was running right there didn’t look very good.

Insurance run? An RBI by Pierre? A(nother) hit with RISP? This is an embarrassment of riches!

I know we can hold it tonight. Can we do it tomorrow??? Over the weekend?

Please.

Good insurance run. You guys are totally wrong about Little. Colletti maybe he should go but Grady should DEFINATELY stay, and I think he will.

Furcal looks really hurt running the bases….

Way to go Pierre….

Another hit with risp and from Pierre.

PIERRE! Great night with the bat, and wheels. I hope Furcal isn’t hurt too bad. He sure was laboring, and limping to score. Martinez should come in on defense to relieve him.

Submission for DodgerBlues.com quote
“For Pierre, his second stolen base of the year and his 48th of the season.”

–Charley Steiner, showing that he’s been paired with Rick Monday too long.

Is PIERRE Trying to catch Reyes?

MATT KEMP!!

Dodgers: 3 hits with RISP!

Rally killer!

K E M P here we go again.

The young guns are SMOKIN 2nite!

bet he rolls one to 3rd

Thanks swood. Work gets in the way all the time. I’m excited and I haven’t even been able to watch the game. Everyone thinks I’m on something here because I’m screaming. I knew they had it in them. The tide has turned. Go Dodgers!!! Let’s not criticize everyone even when we’re winning!! Come on guys.

The sleeping Dodgers awaken…
At least for one nite…

these are the kind of nights that break slumps.

Even Kent got a walk….

Not gonna say anything until we see how they respond tomorrow night. The series isnt over yet, we can come out of this with a tie and snap the 7 series slide.

It’s exciting to see the Dodgers executing good fundamental baseball again. It’s play like this that’ll end this funky slump. GO DODGERS!!!

Without even thinking about winning, just to see them hit is a tremendous joy.

Hopefully this will be the breakout game like they had last year against the nats that lead to the 11 game win streak.

I can’t believe Pierre got an obp of .400+ this month and hitting over .300+.

Well actually .396 for his obp coming into this game.

haha tell that to Max. This might be the first night all year I don’t hear him bash Pierre.

This is how this team is supposed to work. Our starter gives us a quality start (Penny did not have his best game, but he battled), Pierre gets on and steals bases, someone gets some big hits (tonight, it’s Martin), and everyone else just hits singles and doubles to drive them around. Then Proctor, Broxton, and Saito finish it off.

tell me a solid line up doesn’t make a difference. Put Ethier in for gonzo not only does that improve our offense our defense upgrades tremendesly.

Hey Fezzik 031, c’mon let’s show the proper respect to Superman Future Hall of Famer Jeff Kent, who is really the heart of this team. Let’s not put a damper on tonight’s game!Go Dodgers!

Now if Pierre can improve the risp and bases loaded stats than he have nothing to complain about.

Good job Broxton!

You can’t play Ethier every single day diehard.

Nice goin’ BIG JON just like old times. COM’ON SAITO.

Nice hit OLMEDO

yes you can. He’s not a catcher he’s a left fielder. Martin doesn’t get a much rest as ethier.

Holy **** Saenz got a PH single.

Soif Ethier needed a day off why is he in the game?

That’s because our backup catcher stinks and Gonzo hasn’t played bad enough to be a full time bench player.

You can’t play Ethier every single day diehard.
Posted by: swood@rcn.com | August 15, 2007 09:5

Why can’t you play Ethier everyday — Doesn’t Pierre play every **** day???

Much rather Ethier playing everyday rather than Pierre even if he is hitting decently the last few games…

PorkyPig FatSlug Saenz finally gets a hit — But of couse it didn’t matter in the least…

1 HR .214 since the All-Star break that’s not bad. You should bat fourth or fifth in the line up?

We don’t have anyone else who can play CF (No Kemp plays a terrible CF) and Grady just wants to give Gonzo some ABs. Ethier should be playing most of the time but not every game.

Grady’s giving him a chance to try and get out of that slump.

why does gonzo need at bats he plays 90% of the time. Don’t make excuse the Dodgers are a different ball club with Kemp,Loney in the middle. It’s the middle of August were on our worst stretch of the season and you want to get guys at bats?

Saito gets in trouble when he walks batters…

Saito doesn’t look sharp. give him time he hasn’t pitched in a while

Saenz will probably start at first and hit 3rd in the lineup tomorrow…
Left handed pitcher starting for the Astros tomorrow….

With Grady as the manager, it would not surprise me in the least…

diehard you don’t want to just bury a guy on the bench because he’s going through a rough stretch or else you won’t be able to get much out of him the rest of the year.

I’m glad I was wrong about the walk thing this time :) Go Dodgers!

I’m thankful the funk is over. Nice DP to end it. Hoping the best for tomorrow to keep this going.

we haven’t got much from him at all since the All-star break. Maybe if you give him a week off he refreshes. Get him out of the middle of the line up what’s the excuse for leaving him there?

check the lineup Gonzo batted 7th tonight diehard.

and i’m not making excuses im trying to explain Grady’s thought process.

3.5 out of the Wild Card. I want to win the division, but first thing’s first.

S A I T O 30th SAVES IT FOR PENNY 14th and M A R T I N is our MAN. WE NEED A LOT MORE OF THESE.

I LOVE MARTIN!!!!! I just got my Authentic jersey Friday. I hope grady sticks with Kemp in the three hole. Keep Saenz buried right next to Martinez and gonzo let Ethier play!!!Good night all! Go Dodgers first night I get to enjoy!!!

It only took grittle until the middle of August to move him down.

Congratulations on our beloved Los Angeles Dodgers on a complete team victory!Sometimes tremendous adversity builds tremendous character!Go all the way,Dodgers!

Give Saito a break. How many times has he had to close a game recently?? He’s just a little rusty. Russell is the hero again. Everyone played well. go Dodgers!

What do you mean diehard he’s barely ben playing over the last couple of weeks.

we finally pulled through and got a big win! lots of good things from tonight. i said it before and ill say it again..the dodgers are NOT done and i believe they will build on this game. GO DODGERS!!!

barely 7 out of the last 8 games

are you trying to say Gonzo started 7 or the last 8 games…?

I would agree that Ethier needs to play more, especially when he’s so HOT, but remember mid Aug-Oct. last year? He basically ran out of gas because of the length of the season . . . and that may be why Grady isn’t putting him in the starting lineup every day. Just something to think about.

thankyou sparklepleny what do you think of that diehard?

With Furcal hurting it is time to move Pierre up to the leadoff spot…
Think Grady Think…

The Dodger record is 61-59, after 120 games, last year it wasn’t that much different 64-56, just 3 games. Then we were 10-10 over the next 20 games. BROXTON has 25 holds & Beimel has 11, according to my records TSAO,SEANEZ & BILLINGSLEY have 3 each. SIX other pitchers have 1 each. SAITO has 30 saves, BROXTON 2, BEIMAL & SEANEZ 1 each. SAITO & BROXTON have 3 BLOWN SAVES, SEANEZ has 2, TSAO & BILLINGSLEY have 1 each. The starters are 42-47 and the bullpen is 19-12.PENNY has won 14 of his starts WOLF 9 & LOWE 8. BILLINGSLEY 3 STARTS & 4 BULLPEN WINS. SEANEZ is 6-2 in RELIEF. Next in line in bullpen wins are BROXTON 4 & BEIMEL 3 SAITO & PROCTOR have each won a game in relief.

holy **** we won! **** just froze over. I know but late but my friends and i went to the batting cages to celebrate. Lame i know.

I predict a gigantic game from Jeff Kent and I’m going out on a limb here…bold prediction Pierre gets an RBI too.

Posted by: alex41592@aol.com | August 15, 2007 03:42 PM

Got the gigantic game wrong (not Kent, but Martin), but my bold prediction came through by Pierre.

Matthew Ryan Kemp is finally getting some protection.

holy **** we won! **** just froze over. I know but late but my friends and i went to the batting cages to celebrate. Lame i know.

Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | August 15, 2007 11:40 PM

You have friends Max? haha

yeah i do Dodgerdude and whats even more crazy is that i actually have a life outside this blog!! OMG NO WAI!!!!!!!!! LAWLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

That is crazy!

Great win last night, but it means nothing if we can’t get a win tonight and tomorrow and the next day…You have to hope that Lowe can get it done…We just don’t know..
Nice to see Ethier sit down last night..I like taking your best hitter out of the lineup when we’re in a slump!

Nice to see you still criticizing…I like hearing that when they scored more runs last night than they have in weeks! Great point!

puppy..

I loved the win…I just hope they can continue it…Lowe hasn’t been good in weeks, so it worries me…Hopefully he’ll get it done…

nice win yesterday…
all they have to do is put ethier in the lineup…

gonzo is not really a big factor in this game…

Nice to see a win, but I still want Gonzo out and Ethier in.

Abreu is back playing and had 2 hits last night.

Abreu is not going to struggle…
he is one of those players who will average in his career .290-.300

he is a good hitter… maybe someday great…

I will feel much more comfortable once Abreu and LaRoche are up here with the big club. Having Hillenbrand and Martinez or even Saenz playing third and filling in for Kent at second is totally unacceptable for a major league team trying to make the playoffs. Goes back again to the Betemit deal earlier, although Proctor at least seems like a good addition to our relief staff.
Still would like to see if the Yankees would trade Betemit back for Proctor and Grady – would be willing to throw in Colletti as well; maybe they can us him for stadium cleanup.

I believe that LaRoche comes of the DL today in Vegas. He will probably play a few more games down there and then will have to play the waiting game. It seems that the most logical move would be to DFA Saenz and Martinez and bring up Abreu and LaRoche, you basically switch old parts with new, good, efficient parts. But, that might be too easy.

Stop it Kiper! You’re making too much sense and are going to confuse Ned.

Not my intention, sorry Ned. I’ll tell you what, to avoid more confusion let’s just roll out the same line up tonite and Lowe will take care of the Astros. He’s due.

Call me crazy but I think this is our best line-up right now:
Pierre

Martin

Loney

Kemp

Ethier

Kent

Hillenbrand

Furcal

As long as we’re shaking things up, here’s a novel concept: BAT YOUR 5 HOTTEST HITTERS BACK TO BACK IN THE FIRST 5 SPOTS IN THE LINEUP!

Kiper,

The problem is they will never DFA Martinez and Saenz..where would they find

other guys to bat 170-190….hmmm….stupid…they should be gone..but won’t be.

Josh, What happened to Alyssa’s BLOG?
Why was it removed, there was a lot more action on that blog, plus some solid Dodgers and baseball talk. It certainly beats whats happening on Tommy’s world and Espanol.

Dodgers really have a way of ruining good things.

Second question, Is Grady gambling on baseball? Seems like he is throwing the games.

I’m sorry, I am just so upset about what is happening with this team.

The sooner Laroche can be called up to ruin Hillenbrand’s “dream come true to play for the Dodgers” the better.

Another nice game by Pierre. Keep it up man, we need it….

I really want to temper my expectations until we win 2 in a row. I want to be happy about last night, but not get to happy type thing.

Last night on the radio Steiner was very puzzled. He was like what else does Ethier have to do to play everyday?

On May 1 he had a .250 batting average and a .282 on base.

Since then..here is his monthly breakdown

.289avg .333obp may

.286avg .405obp june

.383avg .471obp july

.316avg .325obp aug

Pierre had 3 hits but I think I saw someone on the Astros stretch a weak single into an easy double again last night.

Pierre needs to get to balls quicker and then break his arm if he has to to get that darn ball in faster!

It sounds like Steiner is finally confused about something worth being confused about.

Yeah Scott. I gotcha. Just trying to keep things positive on Pierre. He has been killed around here and I have been the first guy to do the killing, but he is doing what we need him to do right now. But do hope he is moved to LF (or off the roster) next year for defense reasons alone

I wonder if the dodgers have lost a game this year when we have hit 2 homeruns in the game.

Kiper,
I’d guess they will give LaRoche and Abreu two weeks to get back into the swing of playing daily, then they’ll call them both up September 1. I’d expect, if LaRoche regains ANY of that power he had before he hurt his back, that he will get most of the 3B playing time in September (assuming Nomar is gimpy).

with Ethier and Kemp on the corner positions Pierre’s arm is not as bad. But when you have gonzo and pierre in there that is killing our pitchers. How many double play balls has Lowe lost this year beacuse a guy goes to second on a single to center or right. For those of you who suggest Ethier needed a day off why did he play at the end of the game? Last year Ethier got hurt at the end of August that’s why he struggled he’s a year older and smarter!

I’m sorry center or left

Didn’t ya love the way Kemp and Martin did their little hand shake dance thing after Martin hit his two home runs?
was really cute I thought…and probably very needed by all…

I loved last night…I just wonder whether we have starting pitching that can carry us other than Penny…

After tonight, which part of our staff is next??..lol

From a positive angle, we need to root for whatever bozo Grady puts out there for the team to win – I just don’t want to reinforce poor judgement on his part with lucky results.

seriously what does grady have against Ethier? Batting in front of the pitcher all year to be hitting that good is remarkable.

The young guys on the team really feed off each other I’ve noticed because of their bonding in AA & AAA. The team need more of that energy and attitude – the sooner the better.

It really is remarkable on Ethier. I agree with anyone who says our first two OF going forward are kemp and Ethier and Pierre and Gonzo can fight it out for the third spot. Even with Pierre hitting as well as he is hitting right now. Ethier can play CF. He played it in college. He may not be Willy Mays out there but it’s better than Willy Mays Hays.

this team needs furcal to get hot… and in that way this team would be unbeatable…

Kent needs to sit… get Abreu…

i think he doesn’t need more at bats to get on the groove… he is a good hitter to begin with!

Kemp i think is ready to bat cleanup…

this kids look so great yesterday…

Furcal…SS

JP… CF

Loney… 1B

Kemp… RF

Ethier… LF

Martin… C

Abreu… 2B

Hillenbrand… 3B

the veterans hasn’t been the factor last night…

Huge Props to Penny & JP. I noticed, that Penny, gave up more hits than usual. He seemed to be trying something different. He was varying his pitch speed, antwhere from 79
to mid 90’s, after the Astros got men on base. Gutty performance. He was able to get out of jams. Also, as I’ve said in the past and some of you guys also. We have to give props to JP. This guy is busting his *** to please, the fans. He’s making things happen. I know you don’t like his style, but

PLEASE, give him credit, He’s going ALL out, in his own way.

furcal -ss
abreu – 2b

loney – 1b

kemp – rf

ethier – lf

martin – c

laroche – 3b

pierre – cf(for now)

Scott..

Nice lineup…good luck..

Van how about we keep Kent at second. release Hillebrand and Saenz call up Abreu and LaRoche and let the best player play.

who was our 2nd Half MVP last year? without a doubt it was Furcal that’s why I wouldn’t touch raffy.

the thing is Kent is pushing too hard…

he needs some rest…

scott why would you bat Pierre 8th when he’s clearly one of our hottest hitters right now? I’m sorry but Furcal needs to be the one in the 8th spot. Otherwise good line-up.

diehard

That a very unique concept about leting the best players play. You should write a letter to manaagement…

LaRoche needs more at bat after his injurie…

Abreu is a good hitter…

he is a contact hitter so im not worried about him struggling that’s why i want him now…

Kent has to be in there. he will hit again. He can carry the club when he is hitting well. His numbers this year and his career numbers suggest everything is fine. he just got hurt at the wrong time.

I don’t get the Abreu love. He hit .288 and .324 obp with 1 hr for us. Pierre does it and eveyone wants him benched. Will Abreu be a good player? maybe. I know he is better defesively right now then Kent but this is not a Loney over Nomar situation.

agreed jungar, by the way good job on giving Pierre props right now as he definitely deserves them.

im not saying that Abreu should get the job already…

i just want to give Kent a rest…

maybe he can get himself together if he get a 2 day rest…

ok charris, but the problem is that no pitcher is dreading facing JP in the 1st inning no matter how many hits he has gotten lately. But Raffy just might double off the wall or hit one out and really start things off. Jp’s hits just don’t fret pitchers at all – they’re too weak, almost luck.

days*

Furcal was awesome last 2nd half.

Think about it like this.

He had 38 extra base hits post all star break last year. 38! and 16 steals.

In 2007 (all of 2007)he has 28 extra base hits and 13 steals.

Ok Abreu as sub only to rest Kent.

Also, didn’t Delwyn Young play 2b for the Jax 5?

scott thats backwards logic, let pitchers not worry about Pierre, he’ll get his patented duck fart hit steal 2nd, possibly 3rd and we’re in business. Furcal right now is a much bigger liability than Pierre at the top of our line-up (pitcher’s dread or not)

Furcal’s August OPS: .556
Pierre’s August OPS: .855

baseball is a game of streaks let Pierre lead off steal second Furcal groundball right side Kemp Flyball to center 1-0. Is that as easy as it sounds? who said a good line up doesn’t make a difference?

He does deserve props. If Pierre had been playing like this all year, we would be in first place. No doubt. With his speed, if he got on base at a .400 clip….(421 in august) OBP really matters to me on guys who don’t hit for power, more so than avg. With Pierre hitting like this I would flop him and Furcal and have him run wild.

charris your are you ignoring Furcal is a 2nd half player throughout his whole carrer. He’s going to get HOT. Just like last year I rememeber a lot of raffy bashing last year.

charris, I’m not drinking the JP kool-aid just yet. His career numbers are too obvious to ignore. He just doesn’t get on base CONSITENTLY enough to be leading off.

jungar, I really don’t think that Furcal even deserves to hit 2 at this point. You take out that ridiculously good streak he had earlier this year (12 hits in 3 games or whatever it was) and his numbers would look terrible.

when furcal was hot last year second half he didn’t have a bum ankle. plus theres only six weeks left of the season so alot of his second half has already been cold. its sad but his season has been a mess considering what we’re paying him.

why would you discount a player’s hot streak? last two season’s Furcal:
.339 avg post all star 06

.322 avg post all star 05

you have to consider that with a player who is known to carry a team in Sept.

scott/diehardblu, You both are ignoring the fact that Pierre is a 2nd half player as well, every year he starts off terribly and then goes on a hitting rampage in the second half. Furcal is obviously still hurt, if not why isn’t he stealing bases? We need speed at the top of our line-up and Furcal isn’t currently giving us that, or consistancy like last year. Look at Furcal’s stats that jungar posted above.

we’ll see only time will tell, but I’m willing to bet Furcal gets hot.

You can’t steal first and JP isn’t going to be getting 3 hits every night the rest of the way. I’m so disgusted that a grown man being paid millions can’t throw a baseball any better – what can I say?

I like Pierre he should bat leadoff but I’ll have Furcal hitting behind him. Thanks for hurting our shortstop’s ankle Repko you bum!

Furcal’s season OBP: .339
Pierre’s season OBP: .324

Not that much of a difference to me, thats like getting on 1.5 more times often in 100 ABs, that coupled with their numbers for the month, which is half-way over give you all the reason in the world to bat Pierre lead-off.

Furcal still has a higher OBP than Pierre even though most of you are saying he’s been crappy. What does that tell you?

that Furcal who should have a much higher OBP is really underachieving this season.

Furcal will get HOT!!!!

Last season was different than this season, Furcal wasn’t hurt this time last year. Didn’t you see him get aggrivate his bum ankle last night after a swing? He’s not the same player this year.

I agree Charris…Furcal has not been as good this year, whether it’s the ankle or someething else…we could depend on him last year…not this year..And the vets are underachieving this year too..therefore we’ve had the slide we’ve had…..Let’s hope the starting pitching doesn’t go south if we get our hitting together!!!

he’s a veteran in his prime didn’t he have a bum ankle last year coming off surgery. He will battle through I know he will. He was on a bum ankle in 05′ second half yet still hit .322. How do I know he had a bum ankle he had surgery in the off season.

History says that Pierre can’t sustain. Furcal is hurting, but he won that game in Cincy with one swing which is something Juan can’t do unless he hits one of those ricochet HR’s someone mentioned yesterday…

By all means, I don’t dislike Furcal, I just think something is wrong.

jungar, what are Furcal’s second half stats this year?

Hey all, with Penny’s lack of production at the plate last night, Pierre just passed Brad Penny in the OPS department!

Pierre’s OPS: .665.

Penny’s OPS: .654.

Mad props indeed.

Furcal seemed to be really hobbled last night in his last AB and running around the bases, was limping to the point of almost falling down.

Furcal is clearly not 100 Percent and because of a great deal of his value is his speed, is not having a good year.

Well, here’s hoping they both play well!

What else needs to happen for this team to crawl back into it?

More of Loney, Kemp, Martin and Ethier in the middle of the order?

naiye

I was thinking that Penny should have been hitting in front of Hillenbrand at least.

scott, I agree that the 4 (Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier) needs to be hitting back to back the rest of the way. Loney’s numbers have been pedestrian lately but he is running into some tough outs.

Charris…Furcal 2nd half

31 games

21 runs

4 doubles

1 triple

3 hr

10 rbi

3 steals, caught 3 times

.281/.333/.398/.732

Pierre:

31 games

18 runs

3 doubles

1 triple

0 hr

7 rbi

14 steals, caught 0 times

.308/.362/.350/.712

Thanks jungar, thats a lot closer than I thought but I’ll still take the speed up top.

thanks gm jungar

MESSAGEBEARER: If you’re not around I’ll note the PT time it is right now and ask you to read my comment. It also applies to whomever else it fits.___________First of all I am in agreement that it is very close to the time the KIDS should replace the OLD GUARD, but I think you are getting a little impatient. Relax I feel everything is falling into place quicker than you think. Now, with that said, I know COLLETTI is watching the same thing we are and I’m pretty sure he is drawing the same conclusion we are, BUT you got to have PATIENCE. And I don’t buy this stuff about ex Giants and not enough Dodger influence. My experence tells me that these professionals are loyal to WHO PAYS THEM. They leave the pass behind them(How they do it I don’t know). LITTLE is not the best manager we ever had but his job will dictate his future and I’ll say the same thing about the GM. That’s all I got to say.

Pierreseastmeetswest:
I hear what you’re saying, and I have respect for your viewpoints. I’m also an old relocated easterner from the old Dodger days when they were in Brooklyn. I can appreciate your patience approach. I have not been in the Colletti/Little camp from early on in the season, because I felt that so many things were mishandled in the off-season and in setting this team up for 2007. I said a number of months ago that I would want to hold this management accountable for the results. If they wanted to rely on their strategy of using the veterans, then I would expect nothing less than getting into the playoffs and at least giving a good account of ourselves in the playoffs this year. I think that should still be the standard of accountability. If the Dodgers do not perform to that degree, then I want to see somebody else in charge for 2008 going forward. That seems to me relatively simple, and I still hold to that, but with respect to most other opinions.

I grew up in the 1970’s with a Dodger dynasty that was jump started with the influx of several young players over a span of a couple years.

Nomar was great last year, but he broke down late and resigning him and screwing over Loney put Colletti and fans on opposite sides of the coin. When Pujols was ready, St Louis put him in to stay – no mind game **** sending a .380 AAA hitter back down.

scott…

right on….that’s why the Dbacks didn’t want Gonzo back..they were ready to go with the young guys…more power to em….wish we would have and not wasted money on the others

I agree with all of your opinions as they are all valid. My view is that Colletti’s idea of incorporating the vets with the young guys was not a bad idea had he signed a legit power hitter. I can see why they signed Nomar, J.D. Drew left them hanging after he said he’d stay, but i can’t find the logic behind the signing of Gonzo. Now, if Colletti was expecting 20+ HR’s each from Nomar and Gonzo, then i got a problem with Colletti. If at the midway point of your season you see that you have no power and no one out there to go get, then i believe you turn it over to the young guys and give them their hacks. Ned Colletti was sure that he could cover the lost power of J.D. Drew via a trade or in house. It wasn’t available in a trade, then let it come from in house, give the big bats of the young Dodgers a fighting chance by playing them every day.

We do have different view points, Messagebearer, and this management brought this team into the post season last year. I think this team has actually improved itself this year with the younger set maturing. They are all doing just about what most of us expected. BUT the old guard is still here. Changes are slower then you want them to be, all I’m saying is we are watching a good thing taking place(reminising to 1973 and 1 year later a pennant). Who could of for told this latest SET BACK? But regardless of it, it might take a LITTLE LONGER but I can wait some more and I can’t help but feel, it won’t be long and we are going to feel that IT WAS WORTH IT.

I think the problem with Ned is that his actions look more reactionary than forseen.

Like, “We don’t want Nomar playing 3b”

“uh, Nomar can you play 3b like the fans have been screaming for all year”?

“Hey, Loney, Grady and I JUST came up with a great idea! We move Nomar to 3B and then you can play 1B. What do you say buddy”?

pierreseast…

I think us fans are excited with almost a whole team of home grown talent on the rise at once and it’s tough being patient. These young guys have a special bond as you can see with their chest bumping, etc. Stoic professionalism is getting old.

Well Ive said it before but I think the timing/sequence of events on that matter were very shady. There was talk in spring training about pulling this move, and the reason it was not done over and over again until we were sick of hearing it is “nomar can’t play 3rd, he’ll get hurt.” It wasn’t a matter of loney not being ready. So at what point exactly, did they decide that he either could play 3rd or they no longer cared because they needed the hotter bat? Its still shady to me.

Kiper. Don’t let Coletti’s spin fool you. The only person in baseball that didn’t know JD Drew would opt out (besides JD Drew-lol) was Coletti. Boras ALWAYS takes his players to Free Agency when he can.

The 3 guys Coletti evaluated and projected to be our “middle of the order” bats may wind up with less combined RBI in 2007 than A-ROD.

All three of them might not reach 80rbi each.

I am exaggerating to make a point but right now 30 million worth of 2007 salary has 171 rbi.

A-rod has 117

No matter how you slice everything else -The pierre signing pales in comparision to this issue even for the most anti pierre person.

No matter how we finish from here on out..going into this year that is totally unacceptable for a team with a 110 million dollar payroll with no pre- existing terrible contracts and a good farm system to use as trading chips.

COLLETTI doesn’t make the line up. Grittle is the one that didn’t move Nomar out of the three hole, grittle is the one that keeps playing gonzo over Ethier, grittle is the one that leaves pitchers in too long,grittle is the one that brings Saenz up to pinch hit,grittle has batted Ethier 8 all season, this team has talent. Play Ethier,Kemp, Loney everyday. If your a manager that has to win games you play the guys that are going to give you the best shot at winning and grady doesn’t do that He makes the line up.

well to be fair, Nomar is hurt now isnt he?

Yeah Nomar has been hurt since 2003. It’s just a matter of degrees at this point.

You guys are missing 1 very important point:

Without Nomar there wouldn’t be Carne Asada Night!

Nomar is a great team player and nice guy, but it’s the gm’s job to be objective too.

Ethier has batted 7th more often than he has batted 8th. He’s played 49 games as the #7 hitter compared to 32 as the #8 hitter. Repeatedly saying that Ethier has batted 8th “all season” doesn’t make it true.

Interestingly, Ethier has been far more effective in the #8 spot, too.

Batting 7th: .764 OPS

Batting 8th: .929 OPS

Probably just a coincidence, but batting 8th as opposed to 7th isn’t hurting Ethier’s performance.

I see your point diehard. Do you see mine? I mean I get that Little is to blame on things once the season has started as well.

Now we wanted management to replace them with our kids but thats cause there is no one better…my point is, those kids shouldn’t have to shoulder that burden at their ages in the first place and thats on Coletti.

I see your point but what’s the manager’s job isn’t it to put his team in the best position to win and if that means he bats Nomar 7th and gonzo 8th it shouldn’t matter what they make. Ethier is too good a hitter to bat 7th or eight he doesn’t get a chance to produce in key situations. Why face him if you have Martinez or the pitcher hitting behind him.

Without wading too far into whether Abreu or LaRoche should be brought up and given full-time roles, or what roles there are for Saenz, Martinez, and Hillenbrand (though, I will say that if LaRoche is ready, I want him playing at least while Nomar is on the DL–but even optimisitically, they will make him play a couple of games in Las Vegas before they bring him back), there is a little cold-water reality. We are 15-days from when the rosters expand, so no one is going to get DFA’d. LaRoche may get a chance if someone got injured or if we were to go with 11 pitchers (though, we can only do that between starts if we are putting Hendrickson in the bullpen). There is just no reason to release a guy–even a guy who has done lousy–when the rosters expand so soon, and the team won’t like being out the cash.

So, patience, I expect to see a bunch more kids up on September 1–then we can argue whether they should play.

Hopefully, we win again tonight.

Yeah we agree…I think Grady did make some of the calls you are saying, but it took a little longer than we wanted.

1. NY Yankees 195,229,045

2. Boston 143,123,714

3. NY Mets 116,115,819

4. Chicago Sox 109,290,167

5. LA Angels 109,251,333

6. LA Dodgers 108,704,524

7. Seattle 106,516,833

8. Chicago Cubs 99,936,999

9. Detroit 95,180,369

10. Baltimore 95,107,808

The only team out of the ten that does not have a middle of the order superstar is us. I would argue that either does Seattle, but they did pony up for two guys who they thought would be. Most of these teams have two guys or even three that are better than our best hitters..

SCOTT::MESSAGEBEARER::: I think the the thing is , How do you quicken the pace? The other day I was reading in the Daily News(N.Y.), that Willie Randolph told our old buddy Shawn Green that Lastings Milledege was going to see more playing time in right field.____ That really gave me a spark._______Green’s response was that he wasn’t doing to well and Milledge was doing real well, so he can see the situation and is willing to help the team anyway he could. A simular thing happened to Johnny Damon. This tells me that something to this effect can happen here and I’m sure it WILL.(I know_____ WHEN_____ that seems to be the other problem).

batting 7th Ethier 29 rbi
batting 8th Ethier 13 rbi

he can’t produce if he doesn’t get a chance to hit.

Ethier should be batting higher in our order because he’s one of our more productive hitters, and as such we should try to get him as many at-bats as possible.

However, batting lower in the order isn’t preventing him from being productive. He’s OPSing .929 when he bats 8th, so the idea that he can’t perform when he has no protection in the lineup seems like it’s a myth.

RBIs are more a function of a hitter’s placement in the batting order than they are a function of the hitter’s ability.

His OPS is that high hitting Eight because they are WALKING him to face the pitcher. So how is that being more productive.

that’s my point give Ethier more RBI oppurtunities!!

Ethier has 14 walks batting 7th. He has 14 walks batting 8th.

Doesn’t seem like they’re going out of their way to walk him to get to the pitcher.

Mark Hendrickson makes more money this season than:

Jonathan Broxton

Russell Martin

Andre Ethier

Chad Billingsley

Matt Kemp

COMBINED. crazy huh.

Ethier has 60 less at bats in the 8 hole

Diehardblu, I agree with you. My only point is that any given hitter will have more RBIs hitting 7th than they will hitting 8th.

We both agree that Ethier should be getting more at-bats. My point is simply that batting lower in the order isn’t stopping him from producing.

they are not walking him all the time, but if a team has two outs pitcher on deck runner is in scoring position what are they going to do?

Oops, forgot to add Loney in there as well.

Those 6 equal 2.5 million.

Hendu makes 2.95 million, so there is still room to add Abreu or Proctor, to the list if you want. that would bring 7 players to 2.90 million.

my point is that he’s not going to get clutch oppurtunities hitting eight. The other team rather face Olmedo or the pitcher

Ethier has pretty much been playing as much as any everyday outfielder can be expected to play. Yes maybe batting higher in the order is a good idea, but he gets enough playing time to be sure. Everyone needs a day off occasionally. It seems like no matter who bats eight they won’t be credited for any walks that they get so the OBP for 8 hitters should just be struck from the record.

does anybody know why delwyn young is now on the injured reserve in las vegas??

I will let 2007 go. What’s done is done.

But there is no excuse not to get an A-rod/Hunter whoever you fancy if they are available. We should have 6 to 10 starters/important players all making the minimum next year, maybe more.

Anyone is going to avoid the #8 hitter if they can get to a pitcher or pinch hitter. Even Alex Cora had huge walk numbers in 2004 when he was hitting 8th.

I just don’t think the numbers support the notion that batting lower in the order is undermining Ethier. He’s slugging .509 as the 8th place hitter, and just .434 as the 7th place hitter.

I guess the point with Ethier batting higher up is that maybe he wouldn’t have been GIDP as much as Nomar, Kent and Gonzo instead getting on base right before the pitcher ends the inning – except in the case of Penny hitting 9th.

Anyway, I think we all agree that Ethier should be batting higher in the order. The most productive hitters should get the most at bats.

so where is our offensive upgrade going to come from? There’s no where to put him unless one of the kids is replaced. We already have SS (unless we trade furcal, unlikely), 2nd (Kent’s option will vest), 3rd( Nomar, sadly, will start), CF, C, pretty much locked in.

as far as Ethier I think Grady still suffers from visions of Ethier’s late season collapse (yes I KNOW it was because of injury) and that makes him for whatever reason les trustful of him. just a theory.

That’s why you put your weakest hitter eight so they walk him! Obviously Ethier is not our weakest hitter.

why doesn’t grady suffer from visions og Nomar’s 2nd half collapse last year. with that theory Penny would have started in the bullpen. You cannot be down on a guy that tried to play hurt he’s young!

Scott is right. There is a definite rapport among the younger players on the team, especially between Loney and Russell. That kind of rapport is needed for good teamwork. The kids tend to play hard because I think they’re still trying to prove themselves in order to stay. I think that Kent needs to be given a chance. He was injured very recently. Remember he was the big hitter before he hurt his hamstring. How easily we forget. He was the hitter you depended on. What was his hitting streak? Somebody refresh everyones memory. Let him get his stride back.

xoxrussell,,
i think the only one who needs to prove himself is Kemp…

Loney,martin and ethier is a no doubter..

but im sure Kemp will be just fine… more than fine

Someone mentioned Torri Hunter. Why would you want him ?

I think most of us(about99%) feel the YOUTH is ready NOW. It’s time for the CHANGING OF THE GUARD. BUT It’s up to MANAGEMENT.

2008 Lineup
1. Furcal SS

2. Pierre OF

3. Loney 1B

4. Kemp OF

5. Martin C

6. Ethier OF

7. LaRoche 3B

8. Abreu 2B

9. Pitcher

Van..we know they don’t have to prove themselves. They think they do.

got the point

What about adding Alex Rodriguez in that lineup with all the young kids ? I know it would mean no LaRoche. I do believe the Dodgers need a huge bat. A superstar!

that lineup aint gonna work..no one over the age of 35 on there. Kent will be back, barring retirement.

A Rod would be super as long as we don’t give up too much

No one has said much about it today but……how about that tired Russell Martin???? Van?

One homerun may be lucky but two in one game??

How about keeping laroche in that lineup and putting a-rod at ss?

van 19, Martin needs a day off, his swing just looks horrible, doesn’t!!!!! lol

I would love to have A-Rod in that lineup however if he were to play SS his career wouldn’t last as long

Roberto, I would want Torii Hunter on our team next year. The only problem is that we’re dealing with a log-jam in the OF again. I said a few days ago that we should sign Hunter and trade Ethier for a legitimate young pitcher. If we were to do that, we could move JP to left (where his arm is way less a liability), get a more productive hitter and strengthen our rotation. Hunter in CF next year would be a dream after seeing a season of JP this year.

Not to mention that Pierre, Hunter, Kemp is a lightning fast OF.

charris, pierre’s arm is a liability even if we played him in the rove position.

sorry rover.

I think maybe a game more fitting for Pierre’s arm might be cricket since you have to bounce the throws.

yeah but would you rather have his arm in center where teams can expose it or in left where teams can rarely take an extra base?

charris, look at Gonzo, Lee scored from second last night, and the ball was in front of Gonzo, no going to the left or right.

I think the only guys that can’t score from second on Gonzo or Pierre, are the Molina brothers.

california, come on man…you played baseball. Is it better to have a weak arm in center or left?

The Dodgers shouls play Pierre in rover position right behind 2b, maybe 10-15 ft behind. If it goes over his head, speedy Matt Kemp can go get it and the runner ends up at 2b just the same as if JP was in his normal spot. The upside being any routine “single” to center still ends up being a single like it’s supposed to be.

Wouldn’t everyone love to see what would happen if Jason Phillips singled to CF and tried to stretch it into a double against JP?

I can’t wait for the offseason.

Left, but seriously speaking you probably have a better hose than those two guys out there right!!!?

Roberto- I just threw his name out there. Hunter is a nice player, but not the type you build a team around, I agree. He would be our best OF if he was on our team today though. Yeah good question guys on 08. I love our kids as much as anyone, but you make room anywhere on the diamond but catcher really, for the type of player needed for the middle of our order.

russell is still tired…

im not saying he deserves to rest now coz we can’t afford to lose him in the lineup…

what im trying to say is he needs to rest more often in the 1st half…

Beckham can probably bend it into home faster and more accurately from left or center than Pierre and Gonzo…with his foot of course.

Yeah I probably do and thats with a damaged labrum and rotator.

Jungar–Just two points: about the salary size, It think that management does have one high-priced player that it expects to be a superstar, and that’s Jeff Kent. He’s a past MVP and Hall of Famer, and when he has not been injured (2005, second half of 2006, parts of this year), he plays like it. Also, it’s tough to sign big superstars when we are hoping that the kids will come into the position. The Gonzo signing was made to be a bridge to Matt Kemp. So, it would be tough to go out and get a superstar slugger when you are trying to bridge to the youth. I am not saying that the off-season signings were perfect, but there is a tough balancing act, and I think most of the posters here want them to pull it off (though, probably we wanted them to pull it off better).

As for next season, the question is whether we will get a big bat on a big arm. Given the potential line-up, I think we need the arm. Penny, Lowe, and Bills are fine, but I have big questions about Schmidt, Wolf (if we exercise the option), and Kuo. Hendy won’t cut it, and Tomko will be bought out. Kershaw won’t be ready, and I’m not sold on Houlton or Stults. Plus, Lowe will likely leave after 2008 and Schmidt will be gone after 2009. That means Penny, Bills, and Kershaw (who, while looking good now, is still only at AA), and 2 question marks.

As for Hendrickson’s salary, it’s really just a factor of experience. Some of our best guys are making the league minimum because they aren’t even eligible for arbitration. We would be wise to sign them to long-term deals in a couple of years, but for now, they are going to get the low-end.

van, what the Dodgers, Grady, should have done was use Russell as a DH during inter-league play. He maintains his at bats but he has, what, 9 or 12 games where all he does is bat. For a catcher that and the occassional day off goes a long way towards his health in the second half.

Just thought of something, Kemp has a hose
Andre has a hose

Repko has a hose

D. Young they say has above avg arm.

Combination of any of these three guys would probably lead to 1 to 2 runs less from the opposition.

Sorry I no Repko is on the DL

leekfink, good assessment. Thats why I think if we trade Ethier for say Gorzelanny and go get Hunter, it’s like killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

i agree kiper…

we’d have to give up more than ethier for gorzy…but yeah, i get your point. there’s no good pitchers out there this FA outside of Big Z and theres no hitters except for a few outfielders like Rowand, Hunter, Jones, etc.

I just think Big Z, A-Rod and guys like that will be severely over-priced and while A-Rod might individually be worth that kind of loot, a move like that could also likely hand-cuff us when its time to resign all of our kids.

Don’t forget about Elbert as SP next year and beyond. Also McDonald is doing well.

Penny

Lowe

Bills

Schmidt

Elbert

Kuo

Kershaw (he is on the fast track)

Wolf only signed a 1 year deal right?

I love Kershaw but I don’t think he will be ready any time next year. hes still 2 years away from being able to help us.

charris, i disagree with you on the potential signing of ARod..
The young guys are all 3 to 4 years away from free agency. If you can extend them within that time before they become free agent you put off free agency for a couple more years. If the Dodgers were to sign ARod to say a 6 yr $180 mil deal. You pay him $30 mil per season, he puts 4 million in the stands, he puts the Dodgers on national television 30 to 40 times per year, he brings in more parking, he sells more jersey’s and he raises the value of the Dodger trademark. What does all this equal? More revenue for Mr. McCourt, therefore, more money to keep your own talent. Oh, and it also means a couple of trips to the post season before the kids become FA;s..

Lee, Yeah I agree but disagree.

Meaning take that money you spent on 4-5 marginal players and go out and get a superstar. I don’t belive they couldnt get players to play out west, money talks. And if Kemp or Ethier never ever see the field because we have a different RF at age 28 going 100-30-100 .300/.400/.950 OPS then so be it so I don’t buy the whole we cant go get someone good now because some of these players might be good later.

I mean I don’t mean be stupid and trade 3 great prospects for one guy, but make it happen.

Kent is 39 man. All your, “but in 05″ and “second half of 06″ and well “this year” is precisely my point. He has not been at an MVP level in 3 years now. You cant rely on a 39 year old to play daily anymore. you just can’t.

agree we will need a arm or two

Oh just messing around about salary/hendirickson. I get it. I just think it’s funny. guys that we wish would play make less money combined then guys some people want to see DFA’ed. I mean You may as well throw Either out there. He surely could have a 8.56 era in 5 starts since the all star break when not allowed to play.

I’ve been busy all day. Any news on whos scheduled to pitch tomorrow against Colorado?

Tomorrow it looks like Stults..

Great I like Stults… but I had a hunch we might get Contreras. any news on that?

Players Who Have Cleared Waivers: From MLBtraderumors.com

Once a player clears waivers, he can be traded to any team. Here’s a list of the players who have cleared waivers this month plus their contract situation.

Pat Burrell – $13MM in ’07, $14MM in ’08, full no-trade clause

Jeff Conine – $2MM in ’07

Jose Contreras – $9MM in ’07, $10MM in ’08, $10MM in ’09

Kyle Farnsworth – $5.25MM in ’07, $5.5MM in ’08

Troy Glaus – $10.75MM in ’07, $12.75MM in ’08, $11.25MM player option in ’09, full no-trade clause

Jason Lane – $1.05MM in ’07

Mike Piazza – $8.5MM in ’07

Wily Mo Pena – $1.875MM in ’07

Odalis Perez – $7.75MM in ’07, $9MM club option in ’08 with $1.5MM buyout (Dodgers paying a portion)

Josh Towers – $2.9MM in ’07

Steve Trachsel – $3MM in ’07, $4.75MM club option for ’08

Jack Wilson – $5.25MM in ’07, $6.5MM in ’08, $7.25MM in ’09, $8.4MM club option in ’10 with $0.6MM buyout

Omar Vizquel – $4MM in ’07

Dmitri Young – $5MM in ’08, $5MM in ’09, $6MM option in ’10 that may vest based on plate appearances

Bring back Odalis we need another starter, could he do any worse than tomko. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Do you think Ned would ever try to get Odalis back again?

we actually help the cardinals get in the zone…

they are much closer in their division than us…

alex, the only one on that list who would interest me, and may be of help is….Odalis Perez. Hey, they’re paying him anyways.
No point in Glaus now it would really bury LaRoche and no need for any outfielders, they won’t play anyways, so Perez. Can he be worse than Tomko or Hendrickson???

Id rather have Towers than ODP.

Hendrickson is out of the rotation already Kiper. I think if Stults starts tonight then we should bring Houlton up and try to get rid of Tomko. I think Odalis pitched for us last year when Grady first got here and he quickly fell out of favor with Grady and was sent to the pen. If that was the case there’s no way they would try to get him again.

I’d take a chance on Towers and Trachsel.

Why did the Nationals put Young on waivers right after signing him to an extension?

And I know most of you probably don’t want to hear this but Tomko looks like he might actually be on the road to improvement. He’s added a two-seam fastball and a cutter over his last couple of starts, and even though he was charged with 5 earned runs in his last start, he really didn’t allow any hard hit balls and I was actually impressed with his effort. And this is coming from a guy who I was calling for to be DFA’d a couple weeks ago.

I don’t think Trachsel is a good idea Max. He’s 37. this year he’s 5-7 with a 4.85. I don’t see that helping us that much.

BTW, all Pierre hating from an offensive standpoint is on hold until further notice:

After the all star break:

.308/.362 14 SB Zero Times Caught

August:

.377/.421

You can complain about his arm all you want, that’s something he can’t control, it’s always been bad. What he can control, he’s doing very well right now. So, for now, lay off Pierre and go after someone else to complain about. If Gonzo didn’t play a game for the rest of the season, I could live with that.

To bill1234: D. Young starting in RF for LV tonight.

charris1010321–You won’t get me to like the trade because I have become invested in our youth. But I would not complain about it, and it’s a move that makes sense. I have no idea what Pittsburgh’s needs are, but it’s a pretty fair deal. They would probably want something more because of a premium on pitching. But that’s the general idea of a trade that makes sense.

Everyone is right that Martin should have DH’d more. He should get more rest, too, particularly at ends of one-sided games. But Martin is one of the best hitters on the team, and one of the best defensive catchers out there too. When we had Piazza, we played him all the time too. That’s what you have to do with star catchers.

Jungar–I see your point. If we could have gotten say Soriano to play left instead of Gonzo (and assuming that we still sign Pierre, because whether we agree, that was in the long-term plans), then we don’t have room for either Kemp or Ethier in the long-term. But, a Soriano-Pierre-Kemp outfield is probably better than Ethier-Pierre-Kemp.

But, first, I am not sure there was a deal to be had for Soriano. Yes, we could have outbid the Cubs, because you are right that money talks (I don’t think players have an aversion to playing in LA–in fact, for the most part, it’s probably something most are more likely to want to do).

Second, in deciding how much to offer, they have to weigh the difference in cost for Kemp and Ethier vs. the cost of signing a Soriano now. And ultimately, that money can be used for another need (a front-line starter). And you’re right it’s better to spend less money on marginal players (for instance, Wilson Valdez can do whatever Ramon Martinez can do, and for about a million dollars a year less). There is some number where we would have signed Soriano–I don’t know what it was, but I am sure that if we could have gotten him for Gonzo’s salary, we would have. The question, and it’s not an easy one, is how much more?

Figuring the economics is not always clear. I think that the ARod deal killed Texas, because they had no money to put anyone around him. The Yankees are the only team with a nearly unlimited player budget–even the Dodgers have limits, high as they may be (though, I point out, the Yankees were most successful 1996-2000 when they built from within–and have not had success in trying to buy a championship).

So, in sum, I think your point is a good one, but I can’t fault them for going the way they did either. Fundamentally, both approaches are about building from within, which I agree with, it’s just a question of how to bridge the gaps in talent development (Charris trade idea is another of those).

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