Road trip finale

Could use a win today, to say the least (or state the obvious).

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF (day off for Martin)

Loney, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Lieberthal, C

Ethier, RF

Martinez, 3B

Hendrickson, P



    Carry-over from previous…
    Looking ahead to next year:

    1. Furcal: probably a good trading option, if we can secure a workhorse starting pitcher. Consider that we’ve not had a 100% healthy Furcal for more than two months of his contract – not his fault, but management’s negligence in not DL’ing him so as to get his ankle back to health. Sometimes great in the field, but coupled with a high error count. It could leave SS open for the possibility of adding A-Rod, but more likely an opening for Hu or De Jesus down the road.

    2. Pierre: One can only wish that there is a deal possible to put him somewhere else, but most likely he will be with us in 2008 and batting lead-off.

    3. Gonzo: Hoping that we make no move to re-sign him. We need next year to have both Ethier and Kemp playing the corner OF slots. It needs to be Kemp’s year to make it – he has nothing to prove back in the minors, and he needs to start showing a solid major league presence, a consistent .280 plus average with 20-30 HR and cutting down on his K’s; otherwise, you have to wonder whether we’ve given up too many good chances to trade his “potential” for something valuable. I don’t think so, but it will be “put up or shut up time”.

    4. Kent: he’ll be back for his final year, and he should still be able to contribute, but we need to blend his playing time with Abreu or his eventual successor, so that the latter is ready for 2009.

    5. Nomar: he’ll be back, but his role should be changed to a utility player (high priced) and RH pinch-hitter. Both Saenz and Martinez need to be gone hopefully even before the end of this season.

    6. Tomko, Seanez definitely need to be gone. I am not counting on Wolf or Schmidt to pitch again for the Dodgers. Hendrickson needs to go back to the role of a 2-3 inning relief man.

    7. Management: I do not want Colletti or Little making any of the decisions shaping our 2008 team. They have had their chance in this two year stint with one of the highest payrolls in baseball. Coletti is responsible for the make-up of this team, which will probably finish no better than third in the division in spite of our highest hopes. His baseball thinking and knowledge is outdated and based on his experience with a less than successful organization up in SF, and Little has no ability to fire up a team and should have been left retired where Colletti found him – let’s remember that nobody else was looking for him.

    8. I don’t know whether Logan White has the necessary attributes to be a GM. I think we can agree that he knows baseball talent and could assume that he is pre-disposed to young talent as compared to current management’s fixation on veterans headed down the hill. At least he’s been with the Dodgers, and that to me is a BIG PLUS that should have been considered the last time in the selection process. I hope McCourt gives him a first and a strong look. But most importantly I WANT A CHANGE, and I want promises realized in 2008, so my slogan will be:

    LOGAN WHITE IN 2008!!!


    Keep Furcal and trade Hu and/or De Jesus away.

    I don’t want to see a team with all dodger prospects on the field. That team will not get it done. We need to go out and get a big bat in the offseason. Like a big blockbuster deal.

    I have a feeling Kemp isn’t going to cut it here. Ethier, Loney, Martin and CBill and maybe LaRoche are the young guys I can see being the future. Kemp is starting to remind me of a young Mondesi and Beltre. Hopefully he proves me wrong. I know he is still young, but he looks so lost. **** of a catch yesterday though!


    Why do we continue to play Pierre? Can we not preview Kemp in CF? Haven’t we given Pierre enough of an opportunity? At least Kemp has the potential to hit one out. Also, Young gets 4 hits in Cincy and hasn’t ben heard from since. Gonzo has struggled for the past 6 weeks, wouldn’t today be a good game to have an OF of Young, Kemp and Ethier?


    Yeah, let’s blow even more payroll on Furcal when we have younger, cheaper options available soon who a) aren’t injury prone; and b) in Hu’s case, would an UPGRADE defensively.

    Also, declaring that Kemp won’t “cut it” based on sporadic playing time over one year isn’t bright.

    The key to our long term success is to develop as many big league starters as possible, which will open up payroll flexibility to sign IMPACT free agents after 2008.


    Gentleman, again I am back posting again after awhile.I am from Montreal,Canada and have been a diehard Dodger fan for 45 years! I don’t always agree with Ned Colletti and Grady Little,but let’s cheer this team on!Grady Little, leave Furcal leadoff, and Pierre second.Don’t touch that, leave it alone!Don’t forget, we were in first place for quite awhile!Pierre needs Furcal as the cover man.It was not a good thing when Superman Jeff Kent got hurt, that obviously stifled our momentum.I’m not saying He is the whole team, because we have some very good players, but Superman Jeff Kent is the most valuable player to his team. even more than let’s say, Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees.Superman Jeff Kent was born a Los Angeles Dodger just like Tommy Lasorda. I have faith in this management and team which is capable of winning ten in a row!Ned Colletti, go try and sign Jeff Weaver again!Ain’t no mountain high enough!Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go Dodgers!


    I kind of have a bad feeling about kemp not making it either. Over the last two years, he just can’t seem to handle anything but a fastball. I don’t think that playing kemp over pierre is an upgrade offensively. But, we still need to see if kemp can adjust so i guess he has to get more at bats.


    why are Gonzo & Lieberthal hitting ahead of Ethier? Does grittle have something against Andre or is he that stupid?


    Ethier is there at the bottom of the order for a little balance. If you don’t break up Ethier in between Lieberthal and Martinez there is a very weak bottom of the order. If by chance Liebs or Gonzo gets on you’ve got Ethier to hit them in.


    why so suprised? Has Grady ever indicated that he could competently fill out a lineup card? Anyways, lets hope Rick “dodger killer” Ankiel has the day off with lurch on the mound.



    What you say is ‘Right On’

    Spoken like someone who really knows what he is talking about…

    Wish you were the G M…

    Best, Most informative, Accurate Post all year by anybody I’ve read all season…


    McCourt needs to nut up and make a pitch to AROD if and when he opts out of his contract from the evil empire.


    2 games back in the wildcard.

    62-54 Padres

    62-55 Braves

    61-55 Phillies

    60-56 Cubs

    60-56 Dodgers

    60-56 Rockies

    that’s all that matters now. sad but true, but we still have alot to play for.


    ok so continuing our discussion from last night:

    Anybody else think that our signing of JP was insurance (leadoff hitter) in the event that (a) furcal leaves after 08 or (b) is traded in the offseason for a SP if we get arod?

    then we’d have an 08 team of

    of: pierre/kemp/ethier

    if: laroche/arod/hu or abreu/loney/martin

    making it:










    if that’s the case, this offseason’s trade bait includes: furcal and lowe. lots of money coming off the books in the next 1-2 seasons. let’s add a quality bat and a coupla arms!

    (won’t even get into the obligatory whatifs re: dumping JP’s contract)

    i do think it’s important that we do not field only ‘kids’. i appreciate managements effort to blend in vets to teach the kids, but at the same time we are clearly not giving at bats or opportunities to let these guys develop.

    i advocate NOT signing lugo except to a ‘backup’ OF deal (though, i must say that marlon would be more attractive overall) and let kemp/ethier have the bulk of the ABs. further, d.young has only shown that he has the ability to be a solid 4th OF at this point too.

    as for kent, you’re right, he’ll probably play in 08 which leads me to believe the Dodgers need to work-in his eventual replacement Hu or Abreu.

    i still feel that we have an opportunity to upgrade the team at a cost of $15m/yr by replacing furcal with arod should he be willing to play in LA and move back to SS. fwiw, that’s basically what we pay schmidt, lugo, pierre.

    it’s time for laroche to knock down the door, too.

    maybe we should bring back odalis perez. =)


    As much as this is against my personality, since I am generally an optimist, we will not make the playoffs this year. The team has had 2 walk off homeruns and was unable to carry any momentum over to the next day. Playoff teams dont play like that.I do not want th wild card spot, let the pods have that and watch them get swept out of the playoffs by the Mets. I’d rather not make the playoffs then go in and get swept… yet again.


    the reason the team is not scoring runs offensively right now is because we have a number of players who are slumping at the same time. i.e. Gonzo, Pierre and kemp. when these guys start hitting the way they are capable of the offense will turn around.


    and when is that going to happen, we’re 6 games back at this point and we’re only running out of time to make it back up.


    One of the worst things that could happen to this team would be for the offense to suddenly turn it around and play out of their shoes, masking the glaring deficiencies in the team’s makeup. That will just perpetuate the belief that you can win with two washed-up vets, a weak-as-a-kitten CF, an injured SS and a tiring C, and a fastball-only hitting rookie all in the same lineup.

    If this ragtag band somehow manages to be almost good enough, we’ll just have more of the same next year. More frustration. More big payroll for little return. More Pierre slap pop outs, more Gonzo grounders to second, more Nomar first pitch groundouts, more inability to hit with runners in scoring position, more singles-only hitting. Lets hope the team plays only to its potential, which is exactly how they are playing right now, and let it be obvious what is likely to happen when you field a roster like this.

    I’d also rather miss the post season than be swept out of it again.


    I like the looks of the lineup today. Martin needs a day of rest. If need be, Grady could use him as a pinch hitter. Hopefully Hendrickson will get into a good groove with Liberthal, and go long. The way the Nat’s are playing, it’s a cinch the Dbacks will get another easy win. The boys in Blue need to focus on defense today, and back up Hendrickson.


    We all know what this team is capable of.We’ve seen it.The storm is over.You have to be thinking first place! Just ask Superman Jeff Kent!Let’s have a lot of faith in these guys!Our faith will be rewarded!Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Dodgers!


    I can’t wait to see “In my own words” with Jeff Kent on Wednesday. Classic.

    Actually Chipper has on on Tuesday that should be just as good!


    I don’t understand why we keep throwing tomko out there every 5th day. we have a young quality starter in the minors in stults who seems to me to be major league ready


    can anyone tell me why Lieberthal with his 50 some at bats and gonzo who has been struggling miserably are batting ahead of an on base machine in ethier?


    You guys are giving the Dbacks too much credit. Their schedule is about to get a lot harder and they’ll come back down to Earth. This is a winnable division. Six games back is pretty bad, but the Dbacks are overdue for a losing streak and with Fla, Atl, Mil, Chi, coming up, they will start losing a lot of games in the next couple of weeks. They do have Pit and Colorado to finish the season, but LA gets to finish up against Col, and SF. There’s no reason to give up on the division for at least another three or four series. Let’s see how AZ responds to this part of the schedule before we throw in the towel.


    Just a question:
    What had Pierre done in the earlier games of this series, that I must have missed, to justify bringing him back from the bottom of the lineup to batting second again?


    Agreed swood! Since he got back into the rotation, he always gets roughed up early, and gives up ALOT of dingers! Another former Giant that’s not effective; Schmidt, and Martinez included.


    we have no shot at winning anything with our 4th and 5th starters. match that with this pathetic offense, and it is no wonder we are 6 games out. grady needs to throw kemp in the fire this year, just for next years sake. but im sure ned already has his plan b.


    i think its safe to say that the cardinals have shown us what the long ball can do for an offense. hope your taking notes ned because the big blue single machine isnt working that well.


    if we can’t consistently score 3 runs in a game then i don’t care whos on our pitching staff, we’re not going to win many games.


    Wow, when the team actually executes a little it almost feel like they can put up some series wins.

    Pity they execute so seldomly.


    the dodgers are not playing as poorly as you guys seem to imply. i mean a few big hits here or there every game and we could be playing winning baseball over the past few weeks.


    ethier has been flourishing with matt kemp biting at his tail. gonzo and pierre are black holes with free passes. those two guys alone along with nomar’s first half rut are obvious reasons for our record. martin and our early season pitching really carried us and masked a lot of weaknesses that everyone wanted to ignore. you cant simply say but we are in first place anymore….


    swood hindsight is 20/20. the lack of fundamentals got us on more than one occasion. failing to move runners over from first and second with no outs has become a reoccuring thing with grady. batting Jp second and gonzo fifth is a recipe for losing. gonzo is batting like 200 the past 6 weeks with like 2 xbh.


    the only spot where the dodgers are struggling right now is hitting with risp. in the first half of the season they hit .280 w/risp( 2nd in the NL), since the all star break they are hitting .077 w/risp( last in the NL). that is one of the main reasons the offense is struggling right now. i believe that later in the year those important hits are going to start coming.


    swood – unfortunately the Dodgers are also only bringing a .322 OBP to the post-all star break scene. That’s good for 13th out of 16 in the NL. Not only are they struggling to get on at all, then they have that 0.077 RISP BA that you mention.

    Then, the team’s .398 slugging is also only good for 13th out of 16 in the NL.

    Combined, no wonder the past few weeks have been a disaster.

    Plus, leading the league in errors ( today’s game is another good example ).

    I fear that I have to say the Dodgers do not only struggle with their hitting with RISP. They’re struggling pretty much everywhere on offense.


    Wow – Cardinals are 5-9 in today’s game hitting with RISP.

    Dodgers, on the other hand, are 5-77 in their last however many games that is.

    Ouch, ouch, ouch.


    Are we embarassed yet at what kind of a team Colletti has put together for $110 million and how Grady manages it?
    LOGAN WHITE IN 2008!!!


    I’m only hoping that Hendrickson’s performance (not unexpected) doesn’t drive Colletti to burn up the wires to Wells’ agent trying to add this “experienced veteran” to our staff.


    Trading marlon anderson was a huge mistake for 2 reasons: number one it left us without a left handed pinch hitter off the bench. number two marlon was a leader and a class act and the type of player every winning club needs. he added more value to the team then can be seen in a box score . the dodgers have been a different team since he left and the record shows.


    wow how many total runs will be scored by both teams in this upcoming series against Houston? wow!


    Agreed messagebear. If anything Ned should have kept Maddux. Wells WAS good in his day, but it’s passed. He would probably make some team a pitching coach somewhere down the road.


    swood I think they bailed on Anderson like they bailed on Abreu due to they were so ‘injury prone.’


    if anderson was injured then they should have put him on the DL and brought someone else up instead of releasing him and bringing someone else up.


    Well, at least the Dodgers have Proctor. Because it wouldn’t have been better having Betemit play in Martinez’s place the last couple weeks.


    you know im really not defending the trade, but betemit cannot play second base. he looks absurd there, im sorry. his defense is tolerable as 3rd base only. again, not defending the trade.


    Anderson was DFAed after coming off the DL. He was not injured at that time. Tsao came off the DL and a roster spot had to be cleared. In hindsight it would have been better to keep Anderson but Betemit had “won” the LH PH job by failing as a regular. How many LH PH can a team carry? At the time the only other reasonable choice to get off the roster was Abreu but he was still playing a prominant role on the team starting at 3rd quite a bit and playing 2nd when Kent was rested and as a defensive sub. It was a good decision at the time. In hindsight Abreu should have gone back to LV.


    exactly, Abreu should have gone back to las vegas. in case you forgot marlon anderson can also play second base and third. he added alot more value to the team on the field and in the clubhouse then wilson barely mendoza betemit did. they should have done something with betemit or abreu to make room for anderson.


    Look y’all…I’ve been saying since the Dodgers were in first place that this team didn’t have what it takes to really succeed…They got lucky in the first half..but when I saw the lineup again today I knew we were doomed.
    Amazing how we make Reyes look like Cy Young again,eh??

    Bring on all 1 and 10 pitchers and the Dodgers will make em look pretty.

    The best thing that could happen to this team at this point is to fail miserably because that might be what IT takes to get management to take notice. I’ve said all along the Dodgers will end up behind the Rockies, probably in fourth place…This team has a broken pitching staff, no great hitters (Ethier excepted)and a TERRIBLE bench.

    Does anyone think Betemit might have been playing instead of Martinez the last few days?..

    I’m a life long Dodger fan but what has happened to this team is sickening…The manager and general manager should go, but probably won’t. I guarantee we never win anything with Grady. At least I hope Coletti realizes the mistakes he’s made…and wonders why he ever paid the $$$$ for Pierre…that could seriously handicap us for years to come…not to mention Schmidt…

    Kenny Lofton should have been resigned…and the players they let go should have stayed…and others on the team take their place…Saenz, Martinez..etc etc..

    Last year when the Dodgers had that radio roundtable with Grady, Ned, Frank, etc..I asked Ned why he let Cody Ross go..I said he was a great bench player who could hit…He replied..” I like the more experience player like Jose Cruz Jr..”..that’s all you need to know..Cruz is gone from us and the Pads…and Cody is doing well in Fla…so many stories like that.!!!


    Yeah, Betemit’s .360 OBP and nearly .500 slugging percentage was horrible. He should have been on the first tour bus to Vegas.


    We need to pack up and go home, get our ducks in a row, and play our hearts out. I think everyones spirits are down and we need to just be behind our guys. I too am tired, disappointed, everything you guys are but I try not to be critical and blame everyone for the outcome of this roadtrip. Baseball is a large part skill, yes, but a lot of it is spirit. I love the Dodgers. Of course, I love Russell Martin. They could lose, they could win but I love them. I feel their pain. I know they want to win. How do you explain winning streaks when you have the same players,etc??? You can blame the manager, the coaches, the players, but ultimately a large portion is the luck of the game. I will still go to the games, win or lose. I will cheer them on because number one I am a Dodger fan, number two we all stick together even on a rainy day. We all love to win, we all hate to lose but no matter what, we all strive together. I’m sure the Dodgers will still have sellout crowds. We love baseball for what it is. Go Dodgers. Welcome home!!!


    i didn’t say send betemit to vegas i said we should have tried to trade him earlier and get minor league value for him that way we could have kept one of the team leaders when we brought Tsao off the DL.


    Why would you move Betemit in the first place? He was clearly the bets option at 3B.

    Oh, that’s right his batting average. Because his OBP (which includes all PAs, unlike BA) and slugging don’t matter.



    I love the Dodgers too, but you have to realize this team isn’t as good as last year…Replacing Lofton with Pierre is a huge mistake and has cost us lots of games..Lofton was a much better hitter and could still run…Then we would have had money to get a great bat instead of being saddled with Pierre…and Nomar isn’t very good anymore..Gonzo is a stop gap to what I’m not sure..I would rather see all the kids play now instead of the older players because they just look OLD…Furcal is a big disappointment…maybe that’s because of his ankle…and if so they should have taken care of it…

    I’m behind the team but am furious with the management of this team for what they did….I’m a big fan, but why if I know that they shouldn’t have signed Schmidt and Pierre, doesn’t the management know that…I felt that before I even knew they were signed…That was doom right there….Schmidt hasn’t been good for several years..certainly not #1 stuff…and mix in the injuries and that was FOOLISH…and Pierre the same…terrible on base percentage is whole career…Get me someone like his best friend Chone Figgins…then we’re talking.


    Hi Van..are you there?? I know you’re going to the game Monday night. I like to sit in the field box seats close to the action. The guys will wave and smile at you, often acknowledge you. I try to leave early and arrive about 1700 when the gates open. It’s less hassle.and then you can watch batting practice. The traffic in downtown LA is unpredictable. Be sure to get yourself a Dodger Dog with all the trimmings. Just enjoy yourself. You’ll go again I’m sure because you get the fever. Unfortunately I have to work so I can’t get season tickets but I go as much as I can. I would rather go to a Dodger game than anything else. Have fun!!!


    when you are deciding who to keep and who to move i think sometimes you need to look past someones BA, OBP and slugging. sometimes you have to look to what he adds to the team on the field and in the clubhouse. and i think you forgot a little too quickly what anderson did for us last september.


    Spelk: Sang… was too easy on you.(It’s funny but for absolutely no reason I actually think you are right) Betemit has played 12 games at 2nd in his ML career. Since you said he looks absurd at 2nd, how many of those 12 games did you see?


    im just saying the few times he has played second he hasn’t looked good. You said it yoursef he’s only played 12 games there. If his bat is hot yes he should play at 2nd, but our D is already poor as it is. I was just pointing out that its not like he’s a natural over there at second. Again, I didn’t like the trade and thought he should have been playing over nomar.


    I do agree with most of what is said on this blog but unfortunately the Dodgers have to make do with Pierre, et al. I was upset when that big trade occurred when DePodesta got rid of everyone. When the dust settled I didn’t know anyone except Olmeido. I had gone to the final game and was able to shake hands with the team and Jim Tracy. No one is left. I was so angry when LoDuca and Shawn Green was traded. Everyone hated DePodesta. I was so mad that I didn’t even want to watch my precious Dodgers anymore. But this year, the team seemed special with our younsters and our “oldies”. The year started out well. The injuries were overwhelming especially with our starting pitchers. Our bullpen is still awesome. We are in a slump that is so deep and disheartening. It seems the worse it is, the worse it seems to get. Somehow I believe it’ll turn around. And when it does, it will make up for this horrible tailspin. I believe in the Dodgers, I really do. No matter what happens and I think I’ve had it, the game draws me back like a magnet. I just love baseball and the Dodgers. Go Dodgers.


    im tired of all this **** about people not being able to play second base. it is so hypocritical. i gaurantee wilson betemit can play second as good as jeff kent. kent has practically no range. same for delwyn. jeff kent is no defensive wizard himself people.


    Swood: People usually use the “what he brings to the clubhouse” defense to justify keeping a bad player. However, in this instance, I was all for keeping Anderson and sending Abreu back to AAA (which I stated a few days ago). There’s no reason Anderson shouldn’t still be on this team.


    Good Game, Loney, Ethier, and even Young. Good to see Young playing 2nd base. We may need if him, if there’s anything serious with Abreu.
    Other than that, all I can say is:

    Another day until it’s GOOD BYE, COLLETTI AND LITTLE.


    i don’t understand how for the past four or five years the dodgers have had a top 5 farm systems when it seems like teams like colorado, florida, and san diego, teams who are supposed to have less young prospects have better young major league players.


    Oh, and Sweeney is playing just like all the other retreads you’ve brought over from the Giants’ organization, Colletti. Have any more in mind that they can dump on us?


    no kent is no defensive wiz. he’s also 39. betemit is 26(?) or whatever. perhaps it was stupidity that the dodgers never let him play second, but they didn’t. i agree about the giants retreads. as if this season isn’t bad enough. im sure colletti has no clue about this since he’s practically a giant but dodger fans aren’t likely to embrance giant hasbeens.


    2.97 ERA since the all-star break. 23 YEARS OLD (traded at age 21). traded with chuck tifanny for 2 guys not even on our roster anymore. Danny Baez and lance carter.

    In his CG yesterday, he was throwing 98 and 99 in the 9th inning.

    thanks again Ned.


    and Pads won…and Rockies are winning and will probably win…So we will officially be in 4th place…and sorry to say I don’t see that changing…Remember we have 4 games with the Rockies in September at their house..All teams have trouble with the Rockies at home…so there you have it…A poorly constructed team ( at this point the worst in baseball in my mind) and tons of losses…Good job Ned…keep up the good work…and tell your friend Grady…thanks too.!


    i really don’t understand why the organization doesn’t trust the youngsters…
    they rely too much on the veterans who are not contributing right now…

    If they believe that we will have success with our future they should believe that the youngsters can do it now…

    for God sake they keep playing the players who aren’t contributing… gonzo, martinez, saenz, JP!

    and i just want to point this one out…

    i know grady wants to shuffle the lineup… but i didn’t know he will do it every single day…

    i mean this is stupid…

    he doesn’t have a real lineup…

    and he keeps playing martinez in there…


    i just read some of the comments…
    i don’t know why some of the people thinks that Kemp can’t be in the majors next season…

    Kemp needs to get alot more at bats from the pitchers in the major league…

    the problem is it didn’t happen this season coz both him and ethier share that RF…

    u know how great Kemp defensively too…

    he is a natural Center fielder which is blocked by JP…

    I can only see Kemp being successful…


    I just spoke on the Bob Harvey show again…agreeing with some on here saying that the Dodgers should play all the kids the rest of the year to get them experience…We are now 7 games back…and probably 3 in the Wild Card…we have NO CHANCE..this season was decided before it began..If it was my money Coletti was spending I would fire him!!
    Let the kids see what they can do….but no, the Dodgers will continue to trot out this mixture of bad old..and a few young players instead of doing the right thing..It’s sad…but they are pitiful to watch…and I don’t see that changing..It’s not like last year when Lofton was here and our pitching staff was healthier…Coletti will pay big for his off season acquisitions…and we have to suffer the consequences.


    jungar: That means Jackson got us Proctor. (But you were too harsh-I’m too lazy to say why though)


    too harh about what. you don’t trade 21 year old arms who can throw 99 for middle relivers, proctor is just as bad as those other 2 guys.


    ned and grady have alway over valued bullpen arms. A great example of that is chad Billingsley.


    If in some three degrees of separation Edwin Jackson enabled us to get Scott Proctor… Wow! Even Worse!

    A 23 year old starting pitcher with an above average arm and a high ceiling… for a middle relief pitcher!

    You guys are giving me a headache thinking about most of Ned’s moves and how they have really hurt the franchise…




    Given the choice of either of these three players, Proctor finishes a distant third!


    I doubt that Colletti will be fired in the off season.

    Little will likely be back as well, but if the Dodgers finish below .500, which is now possible, then all bets are off.

    If Lowe and/or Penny hits the DL, Grady may get a mulligan.


    Billingsley vs. Oswalt is going to be a great match up.

    Billingley could be our Roy Oswalt in no time.


    this is an idea i had the other day… Long Term off-season plan for the Dodgers:

    OF: Let Gonzo walk next, Sign Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones to play CF, move Pierre to left, play Kemp and Ethier in RF.

    IF: Let the kids play! Call up LaRoche as soon as he is well enough to play. Platoon him and Nomar at third, eventually i hope LaRoche takes the job away. Furcal at SS next year, but do not resign him. Call up Hu to get some playing time Mid-Year at 2B and SS, and give Hu SS in 2009. Kent at 2B next year, Abreu after that. Loney at 1st, Russ at Catcher. Sets up an all home-grown, young, and cheap infield for many years.

    Pitching: Bills, Lowe, Penny, and whatever is available for a reasonable price untill Kershaw, Elbert, and a few other arms in the minors including Brian Morris (look him up, injured this year but a great arm) and this year’s 1st rounder. Don’t think we can count on Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf next year. We could make a run at Carlos Zambrano, who would be pricey, but once the Nomar, Furcal, and Kent contracts are off the books (about 30.5 million) we’ll have some spare cash, and if we don’t trade the kids and let them play then we’d be able to afford Zambrano. More realistically, we could sign Curt Schilling for a year, Jason Jennings for a few years, or a few other options to bridge the gap till our kids are ready.

    well thats my rough plan for the Ds.


    Re: Jackson. Talk about small sample sizes. Dude has a 5.84 ERA and 1.7 WHIP for the season. So he threw a CG SHO against a last place team who just traded their best slugger.

    Re: Betemit. Dude is Ramon Martinez with power. He will never be an everyday player. Doesn’t matter what you think of Ned’s ability to judge talent. Bobby Cox knows more than all of you combined.

    What’s next? You going to start crying if Joel Guzman has a 5 game hitting streak and raises his average to .225? Sadly some of you probably would. Colleti has made a bunch of mistakes. Try making a decent argument and kill him for those.


    lath: I’d like to see where Bobby Cox said Betemit wasn’t an everyday player. Thanks.

    Jackson and Guzman still have a chance to work out for TB. Baez, Carter and Lugo have done their damage and moved on.


    Oh, and I’d like to hear a more detailed explanation of how Betemit is “Ramon Martinez with power”.


    it’s not what jackson has done, it’s what he might do. we gave up on him for a middle reliver. when he threw that game at age 20 vs randy johnson u could see his talent. it might take longer than expected but he will be a good player.

    In Guzman we gave up another good player for another guy not on the roster.

    The argument isn’t to not trade people. But to trade your top talent (the jury will be out on both until they hit 26 years old, in 3 and 4 years respectivly. ) For guys that only a year later you don’t even have on the team anymore just shows how good of a talent evaluator coletti is.

    Trade them, but get value in return. Joel Hanaran is another guy who has made 3 second half starts for the nationals with a 2.76 era. add that to 6 starts for a 2.97 era for jackson. compare that to hendu (4 starts 6.57 era)and tomko (5 starts 3.86, not bad!!) for millions of dollars though…..


    Sangabrilad: then reasearch it. I don’t write down references or bookmark links to everything I hear or read. Even if I’m just making it up (which I’m not) use some common sense. You really think Bobby Cox would have let the Braves trade Betemit for Baez/Aybar if he thought Wilson was an everyday player? With that kind of power? No manager or GM would.

    Jungar: Guzman is not a good player. Dude had bust written all over him for a long time. I don’t even need to go further on that.

    Jackson has talent and is young. So do lots of guys in the minors. This isn’t Tampa Bay though. The Dodgers can’t let him go out every 5 days and get shelled in the hopes that one year he will put it all together. The Devil Rays can. He got bombed 2 years in a row in Vegas and his numbers in Jacksonville weren’t anything special. There was little to suggest (unless you take really small samples) he would ever be a good MLB player then and the same thing is true now. The Dodgers dealt him before all of his trade value was gone. The Dodgers didn’t get much for him because he wasn’t worth very much. Hindsight is great and it could come back to bite LA but until that happens it wasn’t a bad move.


    The assertion that “Player A must not be a starter if this manager let him go” is extremely faulty and weak. Tom Kelly won 2 World Series and “let go” David Ortiz.

    My guess is you read or hear what you want to. Googling should help prove what you said. The burden or proof is on you.


    I can see Bobby Cox saying, “Betemit won’t start for us, seeing as we have Chipper Jones and Edgar Renteria”. That’s hardly a knock on Betemit. Twist it whatever way you wish, though.


    You’re right, this isn’t Tampa Bay. Its LA. Where we sign overpriced players that used to be stars in other cities and now are hasbeens. Like thats better than letting kids play? Btw, Bobby Cox does not make the decision whether Betemit is traded or not, John Sheurholtz does. And in Atlanta Betemit was playing behind players who are better than him. He was expendable.


    Sergio Pedroza… look him up. We did not have to give him up last year, but we did, in the Joel Guzman deal. I don’t like Ned’s strategy of trading highly talented under performing players for spare parts AKA Scott Prcotor, or pasts we really don’t need, AKA Julio Lugo.


    Pedroza was out of Northview High School in Covina. I saw him play a few times. Good hitter. Of course, Colletti just threw him away.

    No wonder people were thrilled and glad-handing when Colletti didn’t trade the young guys. They’ve seen what the return has been in the past for prospects.


    Edwin Jackson is JUST 23, which means the fact that he looks he is putting it all together in the past several weeks is a great sign for such a young pitcher.

    If Jackson were 26 or 27 you could argue that he might never emerge as a pitcher, but….

    Clearly he is still very young.

    Not sure there are many pitchers in baseball can reach 99 MPH in the 9th inning of a start.

    For anyone to argue they would rather have a middle RP then Jackson’s arm, small sample size of a good run or not, is foolish!


    i may have an advice for Kemp about how he stand on the plate…

    notice why all his HR’s comes from the pitches in the inside part and the middle part of the plate? and how he couldn’t catch up with outside and low pitches, and breaking balls..?

    his back is so straight and with that stand he can only cover the inside and the middle part of the plate…. he might want to lean a little forward coz i think that’s his problem…

    he can’t reach outside pitches coz the way he stand…

    he can’t hit breaking balls or sliders becoz of the way he stand… his back is straight and when he try to swing on breaking balls he couldn’t catch up with it…

    he just need to make some adjustments…


    Just a thought, but how about DFA’ing Ramon Martinez, call up James McDonald to put in the rotation beginning tomorrow night and bump Hendricksen back into the bullpen for long relief? Nomar could back up at 2nd or SS in a pinch until the rosters expand. I can’t see McDonald being a worse option than Hendy or Tomko, actually he may be more effective since he in an unknown quantity.


    When it comes down to DFA’ing people, I think a better choice would be to DFA both Saenz and Hernandez, and then we can bring up either McDonald as suggested above (or another potential starter) and Meloan. Martinez can at least be a substitution who can field the ball – Saenz is just a big fat fireplug planted at third or first. You really can’t expect either Saenz or Hernandez to add any real value to this club the rest of the season.



    You would assume that the Dodger management is rational…I think we can see that they aren’t with all the moves they have made and not made..I wouldn’t bet on them DFAing the guys they should..We can only hope..

    I’m looking at this season as a bust and not expecting anything…that way I won’t be disappointed…Too many bad moves in the off season and not enough of the right moves made…


    if they can give some playing time with our future players i can call it a good season…

    right now it sickening me to watch gonzo, nomar, saenz, martinez, JP!

    it’s hard to watch this guys playing but not contributing…

    it really frustrates me…


    I agree. I don’t think that our management has been rational, nor can it be expected to be that for the remainder of the season. They really act as if they just don’t have a plan for this year or next. That’s why, barring a major recovery by the team, I would like to see both Colletti and Little gone at the end of the season, and somebody with Dodger roots and understanding of our system like Logan White take over for 2008.


    I like the idea of DFA, any of the following:






    However, with just a couple weeks left before rosters expand, I assume they are just going to stick around and the young guys will come up on Sept. 1.

    Although, MacDonald may come up and one of those five will go bye-bye this week.


    hendy is good as a reliever…

    why would u want to DFA him..?

    i know u want to see the youngsters play… we all want that…

    but we still need to win even if it means not going to playoffs…

    we don’t want ending the seaon below the .500 mark…



    I would like to see Grady and Ned gone too, but I doubt they will bee…..It’s pretty sad when I could be a better GM than Ned…Bob Harvey thinks so too…lol

    van 19 cute…

    I think it would be better if we finished under 500 because it might really shake McCourt up…otherwise he won’t be..

    We’re not going to win anything…in fact, I think we may be the worst team in the league…no threats in the’s like JV..I bet Anthony Reyes was chomping at the bit to pitch to our hitters…it’s a joke..we make everyone look like CY Young..

    Play the kids and see where we are for next year…but it will never happen


    Why the rush to bring up McDonald? He started the season at high-A ball and he’s averaged a little over 5 IP/start, which sounds like they have him on a short leash. At the major league level, there’d be the temptation to leave him out there, particularly given the bullpen issues.

    Let him finish the season with some success at AA and build on it for next year. I know it’s painful watching Hendrickson and Tomko, but don’t exchange McDonald’s growth just to feel a little better.

    Saenz won’t be DFA’ed. If the Dodgers fall further out, a contender will want him.


    I thought that when you DFA a player at this stage, you have the opportunity to designate him for “trade” purposes, which would allow a contender or any team to offer something for Saenz. Any prospect would be worth something better than nothing. His contract with us is up at the end of the season anyway.


    i don’t want the team to end this season under .500…

    and it’s going to be McCourts decision if he wants ned and little to stay…

    and just like u said… little may still be here next season coz he actually got this team into playoffs last season… and that is why Mr. McCourt will give both ned and little a benefit of doubt…


    van 19 cute..

    Grady has been a bad manager during the season, but he has to work with what he has..Ned, on the other hand, spent an awful lot of money on bad players…that should not be given the benefit of the doubt…Schmidt was not a good buy even before he was hurt…another Giant that Ned was infatuated with…like Tomko…deliver us from old Giants please..


    and u would think that McCourt cares about winning?

    he cares about fame and fame only…

    look at the team right now… and all he does was Think Cure…

    i mean it’s good… but the team is a mess, yet he hasn’t talk to anyone in the organization just to give them advice or anything…


    I know most of you will think, Who gives a darn? but I like to note that I just received My (Juan) Pierre #9 Dodger(Royal Blue) Tee Shirt. I don’t normally by shirts with active players names on them, because players come and go, but in this case I will make an obvious exception.


    I would like to say before I go off that I don’t ever call a team out of the running unless they’re in double figures in GB. We are close to that now but let’s hope things turn around before we get there.


    McCourt cares about being popular and nothing will make him more popular than winning, so to that extent he cares about winning.

    Van, how do you know he hasn’t talked to anyone?


    On July 28th, the Dodgers had the 2nd best record in the NL.

    I think it’s funny that a lot of the folks who rag Depodesta for “breaking apart the team” in ’04 are the same ones who now are on Colletti for not doing anything. At least PDP wasn’t blinded by their record and could recognize the team was flawed. A lot of these people who criticize Colletti were glad-handing him for not trading the prospects refuse to recognize that PDP did the same.


    that’s because it was the launch of the Think Cure charity at that specific time and the purpose of McCourt in the booth with Vin was to promote the charity along with a representative/executive from Kcal9 i believe, one of the sponsors.

    Just because he didn’t talk specifically about the team at that time doesn’t mean that he didn’t talk to the front office about the “situation” or the status of the team. And even if he has spoken to the front office about specifics, i highly doubt he would share that with a national audience.

    If I recall, the owner of the team doesn’t usually talk specifics about the team anyways. (unless you’re steinbrenner and talking about the status of the yankees.). Thus, his interviews was nothing unusual in my eyes.


    When I’ve seen him asked about the status of the team, he discusses it. It’s the standard, “We’re committed to winning and the fans” rhetoric he repeats whether the team is 20 games over or under .500, but he doesn’t ignore it and start talking about Think Cure.

    If you’re trying to suggest that he can’t concentrate on owning the team and running this foundation, you’re way off base. The Think Cure stuff is exponentially more relevant than anything the Dodgers do on the field.


    casino i know that…

    but it’s vin who ask him that… it means that vin himself want to know what’s happening…

    all he said that time is you know every team goes in to that kind of slump… then boom think cure again even if the discussion of think cure is over…

    im not saying that think cure is bad… it’s great… real great… but sometimes u need to speak up…

    this organization has the thing called secrecy…

    they don’t talk about the team too much…

    and im not saying that he is a bad owner… i just want him to step up… talk to the people he hired for this team to be successful…

    coz right now ned and little aren’t stepping up…


    I’m interested to learn something here.

    Rather than bashing Ned with ridiculous statements like “I could be a better GM than Ned,” who would each of you have tried to sign in the offseason? Bear in mind signability issues, contract length, scarcity of impact arms and bats, etc. (Also try to be honest in hindsight – I don’t remember anyone on this blog hoping Ted Lilly would be a Dodger, but he’s been a fine pitcher this year. So let’s not all say “Ted Lilly” and try to look like geniuses.)

    Other than Pierre, I was actually pleased with many aspects of Ned’s offseason at the time. I thought Schmidt, though risky, was a great signing d/t the short length of contract. Compared to what Zito is getting paid, and how the Giants would be better off if he were injured like Schmidt, the Schmidt contract was a jewel.

    I would have loved to have seen Ned bring in an average veteran 1B to back up Loney and see Loney start the season at 1B. But, in the offseason, I was happy with the Nomar extension because I had no idea he wouldn’t be able to duplicate last year’s first half after resting for several months.

    Although I thought Ned was smart for not overpaying for Gagne, in retrospect the bullpen needed some buffering beyond guys like Seanez/Tsao, who were cheap but also fairly risky. Gagne could have been an overpaid fan-favorite like Nomar was in the 1st half, but his presence also could have bolstered the oft-thin bullpen.

    Wolf was a high risk/high reward type of signing. It seemed like an amazing signing until June. If he gets healthy for the stretch run, it could still turn out to be a good one. I can’t think of too many front-to-middle of the rotation pitchers that were available (feel free to remind me), and although Ned gets crucified daily on this blog for Wolf and Schmidt, they really didn’t look like bad signings when they happened.

    I’m not trying to defend Coletti in this post, but I’m legitimately attempting to imagine what alternative potential signings would have led to a massively better ballclub. (Soriano, Carlos Lee, Aramis Ramirez (if he hadn’t extended), these impact bats would have been fantastic to obtain; it just wasn’t possible without offering 6-8 years on a massive contract, which many GMs may look like geniuses for NOT doing a few years from now.) I suppose the argument could be that if reliable players weren’t available that WOULD massively improve the club, he shouldn’t have overspent on Pierre and Schmidt, but I honestly can’t blame him for trying considering how close this team was (one or two good pitchers, really) to being a fine playoff team in ’06.

    Anyway. I’d love to hear your responses.


    McCourt, Colletti, Grady..who gets the blame for this season having gone from playoff team to also ran? How about the players!
    McCourt is the owner and he’s also a business man who has many other interests and other coals in the fire. McCourt is worried about his construction company his charitable foundations the real estate market and his new spring training facility in Phoenix. Colletti did not make any trades for the sake of keeping the young prospects together and i can live with it because there was no viable options out there for the Dodgers. After Texeira went to Atlanta there was nothing out there to get. As for Grady, well, he’s got no fire to him, he sees life through rose colored glasses but all he can do is put out a line up. The players went into the tank and they are the ones who should take the biggest blame. The Dodgers just ran out of gas. Injuries, second half slumps and perhaps age all took a toll and now our season is done. We are not going to get back into this thing so now is the time to play for next season. I am not a Grady Little fan and i thought about 1 week ago he should of been fired so that a fire would be lit under the team. Since nothing happened with Grady and he will remain as our manager it’s on the players to look at themselves in the mirror…


    puppyhead01, i agree with you 100%. There was no significant, season changing signings out there to be made. I to thought the Schmidt signing was good because my feeling was, here’s a great 3 man behind Penny and Lowe…..


    You no Ned and Little are partially to blame, but in reality the guys on this team need to step it up. They have not produced, they are not consistent whatsoever. Yesterday after the game I was listenting to Dodger talk, and a caller called in and said the truth. The veterans have not stepped up, Gonzo has struggled, Nomar has struggled, Pierre has hurt us more defensively, then at the plate. We will never go on a long winning streak, because we have Tomko and Hendrickson in the back end of the rotation. I think we all need to realize that at the trade deadline, other teams wanted to **** the Dodgers of all the prospects. Maybe it’s time to let the kids just play, so mangement can see what we have for next year. If they bring up LaRoche and give him about 125 ab’s see what he does, if the kids don’t produce, then we go after some FA’s.



    i agree with you… if wolf and schmidt are healthy it would be a good signing…

    The only problem last off season is not signing Carlos Lee…

    we could have had a trio of Lee(LF) Kemp(CF) Ethier(RF)…

    i don’t know why ned didn’t match the offer from the giants and the Astros…

    Lee is a perfect fit in this team…

    power bat and a great arm from the OF…


    I agree with a lot of what you say pup.

    Pierre was obviously the huge mistake and people actually said so at the time. Lofton coming back would have been a viable option, as would putting Kemp or Ethier out there. The other option people won’t want to hear was to re-sign Drew and out him in CF.

    I didn’t have a big problem with the Schmidt or Wolf signings. Sure, there was risk, but keeping JS to a 3-year deal was key. However, I expect the front office staff to have better access to medical records and expertise than you or I would and not act like they were blindsided by these injuries. It’s not like it was something unforseen, like Drew getting drilled on the wrist by a pitch.

    That aside, having those called for rotation depth and Colletti decided that Tomko and Hendrickson was that depth, which was a mistake that obvious at the time.

    A lot of people knew Garciaparra was done, but in a desperate PR move was resigned. Loney would have been just fine at 1B with Betemit at 3rd. They weren’t “proven veterans” though.

    On top of this, Kent was given an extension, despite being 39 years old. How many productive 39 year old 2B have you seen in your lifetime?

    His tenure has been littered with bad decision after bad decision.


    The problem with blaming the players is that Coletti is on record with his expectation from them indivudally pretty much add up to where we are now. He didnt expect much more out of Luis Gonzales for example. maybe 15 Hr and 25 doubles is his quote. Well..that what were getting. What did he say about Pierre? 190-200 hits and 50 steals. Thats what we will be getting from him if I am not mistaken.

    The sum of the parts is not good enough, not indivdual performances which yes varies but overall most guys are doing as expected. Furcal and Nomar being below expectations…


    Nomar, Furcal, Saenz, Hendrickson, Tomko… all these guys have under performed. If Nomar was having an average season and Furcal and Saenz was producing off the bench like he did the last 2 years and Hendrickson and Tomko could be .500 pitchers we wouldn’t be having this conversation and Colletti and Grady would be geniuses because we’d be in first place..


    Wolf hadn’t thrown 200 innings since 2003. It was reasonable to expect that he wouldn’t throw 200 innings in 2007 isnt it?

    Schmidt is a case of common sense. Signing power pitchers after age 34 is dicey. Signing one that your division rival makes no effort (with no other circumstance, like his teammates like him etc) to retain should be a big red flag.

    2 have those two guys penciled in as 2 main starters is poor planning. To have Hendu and Tomko as back ups to two injury risks is what gets you 6 games out in August.


    hendy has not under performed this season…

    at the start of the season hendy is a long left handed reliever..

    they didn’t view him as a starter again coz they know that if injuries occur they still have Kuo and Billingsley…

    hendy has been successful the start of the season there in the bullpen… but becoz of stupid injuries… he was force to pitch as a starter again…


    im worried for tonights game…

    all the pitchers have been pitching like a CY Young against the team…


    Pitching is not why we are 6 games out of first place with 6 weeks to go. It’s a huge case of these players collectively playing like uninspired, undisciplined, underachieving, un-fundamental baseball players. You can blame Grady or Ned if you so choose, but these players (with very few exceptions) are just uncomfortable to watch. This team has completely fallen apart offensively and it just cannot be called a fluke any longer. This three week stretch (since the Mets loss on July 22nd) has completely buried this team. I’m not declaring them dead, but they’re certainly on life support. They need to average a game gained in the standings each week from here on out. This is doable, however they must play their best baseball in these next 6 weeks. There were many cases during the St. Louis series where we hit the ball really well, but it went right into the glove. This is a good sign that this team is ready to break out, the balls just need to fall…or go over the wall. I will always have faith that this team can win, but the reality of the situation is that they’ve put a lot of doubt into our heads that they’re capable of doing so. I’ll be there rooting tonight cheering for a breakout from our offense in what should be a tremendous pitching matchup between Ace Chad and Oswalt.


    I really want to believe that the Dodgers can mount a comeback and get hot. They can make up 6 games in 2 weeks and as i’ve said before, the DBacks will stumble (blew the game in the 9th yesterday) The problem though isn’t the DBacks or Pads, it’s the Dodgers themselves.. they have no fire no emotion they are dull right now and i really don’t see the hitting or pitching to carry the team to a prolonged winning streak or a 15 out of 20 type run.



    especially with some of the riff raff that is on our 25 man roster…so many of them offer no help and just take up space..I’m sure we must have some better players in the minors than Hernandez, Martinez, Saenz, and various other stiffs on the club..

    No matter how much they advise these guys not to swing on the first pitch…they still do..and most have no patience at the plate…there are exceptions like Ethier..but it’s amazing that all the guys except Ethier are underachieving at the same time..I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything like it….and I think they are burning out Russell…Next year get a good back up catcher and let him play .



    well they are veterans right?

    and all of them had been successfull with their careers…

    Nomar, Kent, JP, Gonzo…

    whatever u say to them they would not change the way they approach when they are hitting…

    that’s the thing about veterans…

    they have the attitude of Know-it-all…


    I’ll be there tonight too, hoping this the start of a good winning streak. I think this team is in all honesty playing to its level of capability. The offense wasn’t very good at all this year save a couple weeks in June/July. And that was mostly due to the kids coming up and being on fire. Other than that this team has gotten by (I don’t know how) offensively because the pitching was awesome. This team was never going to score a lot of runs and now we are seeing it like earlier in the year. Unless some of the position players are replaced (I assume gonzo will be gone, but I don’t see how anyone else will be) next year will not be any different. The design of the teams offense was just not thought out well at all.


    to many errors, to many short pitched games from starters ,to many singles…what can we do??

    the last three games I can recall us winning were all on homeruns late in the game which just sorta shows that without a lack of homerun guys it’s hard to weather storms. stringing together 6 hits to score 2 runs dosen’t happen that often in the middle of pennant races when things tighten up.


    I’m hoping that next year they realize getting by with NO power is not working.!!!!
    Please give us some threat(s) in the lineup….and get rid of the dead weight…

    I’m sure Ned assumed his veterans would be just as good as last year…funny how that changes when they get older…Nomar has been a BIG disappointment…I’m sure Gonzo is a nice guy and he came through a bit in the first half, but there’s a reason he wasn’t asked back to the Dbacks…(I know they wanted their YOUTH to play) but he’s just about done too.


    Yeah I am really sad that I am right. At least this year I have been right. I get what Ned was trying to do (bridge the gap until the future could arrive) he just didn’t do a very good job at it this year.

    I have outlined a few days back what I would have done. Lilly instead of Wolf and Matthews Jr instead of Pierre. Not signinging schmidt, nomar and gonzo (85 million) and instead re-signinging Drew and Maddux.

    I would have been half right, half wrong..but at least I am being honest.


    Power hitters are increasingly rare…I’m sure Ned tried for Soriano and Lee but wasn’t willing to give such a lengthy contract. Hopefully he’ll learn from that and throw $200m at A-Rod…that’s the only way he’s going to acquire a power bat.


    The Lilly signing was mocked by most analysts, but turned out well. Do you really think that you would have signed Lilly for $55 million instead of Wolf for a fraction of that if you were the GM in the offseason?


    and Schmidt was 3 years 47ish
    rather have a healthy Lilly…never wanted Schmidt EVER…was not good for the last 2-3 years..when he pitched against the Dodgers, we even got to him pretty good…so Ned was dreaming even if he didn’t know about his arm



    I like all of your ideas of what you would have done..It seems to me that Ned tries to think of winning now, but by doing so he puts together a worse team…!!


    yeah, i would have. thats what i said at the time. lilly is pretty good, pretty consitent. I always liked lilly…hey i admit, my plan wouldnt have been that much better. drew is a bust and maddux hasnt been very good at all either.


    the 3 main things that bothered me most heading into the year and ask alex, cause he should recall these debates…

    1. Loney should have been starting 1b based on his perforamce last season

    2. Billingsley should have been a starter from the start

    3. we should have never signed Pierre.

    The rest I can live with..



    agree again…If only we hadn’t signed Pierre I could live with the other things because Gonzo will be gone and probably Wolfe….but Pierre will kill us for 4 more years and I don’t know how we get over that.


    Very much so:

    1) Loney deserved the 1st base job, if his performance during the 2006 season didn’t turn heads, his game in the playoffs should have, he should have been given first base. Even still he wasn’t going get the job unless they moved Nomar, which eventually they did. Which led to Betemit’s trade…

    2) This goes both ways, even the great Bulldog started in the bullpen for Lasorda. Bills was great in his role and was partly responsible for us having such a great bullpen early on. He absolutely should of been starting, but I got why he wasn’t to start the season. He’s the best and worst thing that happened to the bullpen since he left it.

    3) He’s undefensible at this point, but he can still contribute, just don’t put unrealistic expectations that he can never live up to


    The biggest move that has to be made is to get rid of Little. You guys can mock the signings all you want but I feel we have more talent than anyone in the West. That’s what all the experts were also saying at the beginning of the season. We have had our injuries but who hasn’t. Batting Nomar third, batting Gonzo in the middle of the line up, leaving some pitchers in way too long and some way to short. We have the worst manager in baseball, if you don’t think that makes the difference ask the cubs or the Braves always in contention with a lot of turn around that has everything to do with the way Bobby Cox manages and treats his palyers.


    alot of it are grady’s fault… agree…

    just like u said that this team has alot of talent to show for…

    The talent is there… but the production isn’t…

    it’s got to be the players fault why the talent doesn’t come out…

    the only fault grady did is putting some stupid lineups…

    i have put this lineup many times… the only change in this lineup is gonzo…i don’t want him as a starter anymore…

    let us assume that JP and gonzo are both resting…

    Furcal… SS

    Martin… C

    loney… 1B

    kent… 2B

    Ethier… RF

    Nomar… 3B(i prefer LaRoche, though)

    Kemp… CF

    Young… LF

    i believe that the lineup will produce 5 runs a game…

    gonzo and JP are players who hit lazy fly balls… and that’s not acceptable…


    All I’m saying the production isn’t there because grady has rally killers batting in key situations. The job as a manager is to put your team in the BEST position to win. Grady defitnetly doesn’t do that.


    I’ve coached baseball for 22 years and (at least with kids) I always tried to be very good at the top and bottom of a lineup so I have balance every inning.
    If I were to apply that technique to the Dodgers, this how my lineup would look …

    Furcal SS

    Ethier RF

    Loney 1B

    Kent 2B

    Martin C

    Kemp CF

    Gonzo LF

    Garciaparra 3B


    Reasons: Furcal is the only leadoff hitter on the team (with speed), which means he’s as good as a double 66% of the time he gets on; Ethier is the only RISP hitter on a consistant basis. (That equates to a 1-0 lead at least 95 times a year), which incidently is a nice win total for a season (and in contention!; I have always been taught that your No. 3 hitter is ALWAYS your best hitter on the team. Loney is and will be that. He will hit 60 doubles a year and 28-35 HR a year from that spot with 120 RBIs; Kent is just a solid hitter when he’s not in a slump; Martin can lead off an inning and make things happen on the base paths; Kemp will be an RBI machine once he learns how to reach the other side of the dish; Gonzo can reach base more often when he isn’t the focus of the offense, and Nomar has been pretty clutch for most of the season with RISP (I think he led the league with an over .410 average until the All-Star break), and his OBP will rise drastically because the pitcher is next. In a rally inning, getting to the pitcher could mean trouble with the unpredictable Furcal in the ODC!


    Saenz our clutch PH that grady ALWAYS put in a clutch situation.

    .182 avg

    .214 w/RISP

    .083 w/RISP w/ 2 outs

    .167 men on 2 outs

    .119 bases empty

    why do we send this phat *** out there time and time again?



    Grady can be blamed for our lineup problems no doubt. So can Ned. He thought Pierre was a suitable replacement for Lofton, when actually Lofton is a far superior player. But last I checked the cubs, havent been good for a while. We arent in 2003 anymore. Grady has cost us countless games with his double take decisons, but he only has a certain deck of cards, and Coletti is responsible for the subsequent shuffling of those cards. At some point someone has to come out and say Juan Pierre is not a fit at the top of our lineup. It took Grady and Ned 120 something games to come to that conclusion, as our season is crumbling. Great timing guys. We figured out last year that Ned’s Single Machine doesnt work that well. Im sorry but ive grown up with much higher expectations for my Dodgers than just winning the wild card and being swept out of the playoffs.


    I have a Question—-

    Most of us seem to agree that Grady Little is a POOR manager…

    What do we think caused him to be this way ???

    Also, why did Ned hire him in the first place…..

    Please help me understand, because it is very frustrating for me to watch this team go down the drain, in large part, because of Ned & Grady.



    becoz grady can only coach teams who has full of talents…

    he can only coach a team with 2 or more superstars in his team…

    like when he is in Boston…

    Ace pitcher(pedro martinez)

    2 hitting monster(ortiz,ramirez)


    Grady is not the one swinging the bats, or fielding the ball, or the one that has gone on the DL. He’s the same guy that was here last year. You guys need to put the blame on the players, we are paying there salary and they are underperforming, too bad we can’t fire them.


    I agree that Grady is not the best manager in the Big’s, he would not have gone unemployed as long as he did after Boston if he was considered a better manager, but I still can’t lay all the blame on him for our season going down the drain. I understand that Grady is not very creative with his line up, but with the lack of power this team has, it doesn’t matter who he puts out there, they can’t score.
    Maybe next year Colletti and McCourt REALLY show us they want to win and bring in Dusty to manage and throw ARod in the middle of the line up with Martin, Loney, Ethier and Kemp, heck we won’t even mind having Pierre…


    californiaautorebuilder, that’s what i’ve been saying, look at my previous posts, it’s not all about Grady…


    A-Rod won’t make a difference, who’s going to pitch. Pitching and defense win games.


    RWBJR –
    “Most of us seem to agree that Grady Little is a POOR manager…

    What do we think caused him to be this way ???”

    I don’t agree with most of this board’s posts about Grady being “Poor” (or any of the other adjectives listed about him). As you said yourself, he can only coach a team with two or more superstars, WELL WHO COULDN’T!

    I’d love to coach a team like the Yankees and Red Sox and know, I would be in the chase every year!

    The fact of the matter is, he doesn’t have that kind of personnel on his team to do it. He has no bonafide HR & RBI producing hitters, only three SPs, and a multitude of “can’t miss talent.”

    I can only think of two coaches that can handle a team like this year’s Dodgers and get the most out of them … Tommy Lasorda and Mike Sciossia!

    Be it as it may, we have Grady … he has nothing – like you described – and here we sit six games back (it should have been 7 if not for the Snakes implosion Sunday)and in a lot of trouble.

    I USED to back COLLETTI all the way, but I NOW have to admit this MESS is ALL ON HIM!


    Penny, Lowe, Bills, Schmidt, Kuo, Kershaw.. you don’t think that these 5 can’t win games with the offense giving them 5 runs per game? Come on.


    cerosmithrc I would have to disagree, The nuecleus of this team is still intact. Martin, Loney, LaRoche, Kemp, Ethier, Broxton, and Bills. All these guys were wanted at the trade deadline, including some of the guys in the minors. The blame should go on the veterans, when they needed to step up they didn’t. This team will be good for alot of years to come.


    kiper04, Penny should be 16-2 no offense his last 3 starts, Bills should be 9-2, no runs his last two starts.


    i want Joe Girardi as manager…
    he knows how to use and encourage the youngsters…

    he might not be the best but that’s becoz no one is perfect…


    van, i agree that Girardi would also be a good fit and he is a fiery guy.. if given the choice, i’d take Dusty but Girardi is definitely someone who would be a major upgrade..
    californiaautorebuilder, if we had a power bat, i.e. ARod, Penny would be 16-2 and Bills would be 9-2 as you say. Doesn’t this just reinforce my point?


    wrong, last year’s Marling team was young, alot of those guys played hard everyday because they wanted to stay in the big leagues, not because of Girardi.


    I personally don’t think one big power guy could have done it, because the guys in front of him still need to get on base. Case proven when Raffy and Juan get on we win.


    A-Rod won’t make a difference, who’s going to pitch. Pitching and defense win games.

    Posted by: | August 13, 2007 02:26 PM

    Not sayin I want or don’t want A Rod but last time I watched a game the team with the highest score Wins the game…..1-0 losses ……….


    CAR –
    I don’t think I mentioned in my blog about getting rid of any of the “nucleus”, but IMHO you are right about the Vets. Still the fact remains … Colletti brought in Pierre, Schmidt, Gonzo and kept Saenz, when other signings could have been made, like Matthews Jr., Maddux and Bring Kemp or Young to start in the OF!



    ur wrong…

    they play great becoz Girardi knows how to use them…

    and they play not becoz they just wanted to stay… they play hard becoz they know that they all belong in the big leagues…


    You’re right, you don’t need a power guy to win. The Dodgers are 3 games above .500 without one.


    I think the power will come from within








    Line Up for 2008


    I believe Scott Elbert is the darkhorse, Sept call up will probably get 2 or 3 starts.



    if A-Rod is available why not try to get him…

    this is muhc better look…

    Furcal… SS

    Martin… C

    Loney… 1B

    A-Rod… 3B

    Ethier… LF

    Kemp… RF

    LaRoche… 2B

    JP… CF


    Aren’t those the same pitchers that i said would be the rotation, along with a power hitter? Maybe you just don’t believe that ARod would help or be avialable, i can respect that. But that’s a nice rotation.


    because A-Rod wants 30million a season.
    Can you remember kevin brown, darren driefort. No way, not again.


    californiaautobuilder, are you really comparing ARod to Kevin Brown and DARREN DREIFORT?!?
    You’re talking about a sure hall of famer at 32… Brown, and certainly no Dreifort, were ever in ARod’s neighborhood.


    Do you think the lineup would work with only one veteran A-Rod?? Sounds like you think he can carry the whole team just being a power bat?? I still think we have the pitchers and bullpen except that the pitchers are on the DL now.


    ofcourse he wants 30mil…
    he is a superstar…

    and we are in a new generation now… everything is expensive… but u need to use it well…

    in the case of A-Rod he might be expensive but he can serve us well…


    Managers never get enough credit and managers always get way too much blame. I blame the players, they’re not getting the job done. Seriously aside from Ethier, who is Mr. Consistency, Martin earlier in the year and Kent’s ridiculous July. There’s been too much inconsistency…If Penny should be 16-2 and Bills 9-2, can you imagine what Lowe’s W-L record would be if he got runs this season. Grady’s handling of the outfield situation has been poor, but it’s not the reason we’ve gone into a tailspin. It takes much more than Pierre’s inability to hit the ball on the ground or past a little league fence to cause this team to falter the way it has. Gonzo’s slump is a big problem but even if you combine those two slumps most teams can deal with big slumps because the likelyhood of the entire team slumping are slim.

    What’s happened to the entire team is unexplainable. You can blame Ned for signing these players, but these players are not this bad. No major league collective group of players are THIS bad. This RISP mess is incomprehensible, that even the worst teams couldn’t accidently do. They’ve got to break out of this, the baseball Gods would never allow such a thing to continue, everything points to an explosion of offense anytime now. The problem is the Dodgers think that as well and nothing is changing. Therefore this slump continues, but I’ll say this I will take this slump now just so long as we come out of it down the stretch. But if they don’t come out of this…we’ll that’s something a lot of us don’t want to deal with, but may be a reality soon enough.


    u don’t need alot of veterans…

    look at the team now…

    the veterans should come off the bench… like nomar being a utility player…


    no i’m comparing salaries, paying that kind of salary holds you back from making other trades or going after other FA’s. Remember we could have had him in that draft, but Seattle pick him, we picked Darren


    We sit here and talk about our young guys and how great they’re gonna be.. With the experience they have now and the experience they can pick up the rest of this season if they play everyday…. How good can they be if you throw AROD into the mix? xoxrussell, he doesn’t have to carry the team, this team will carry itself, but ARod would make them a legit contender for everything not just the West.


    It’s always good not to put all your eggs in one basket. How often does that happen and that person goes on DL. Then what. Look at our hurt pitchers..Schmidt et al.


    u are talking so much about the past..

    it’s the future now…

    heck if we can get A-Rod go for it…


    I agree with van, the Dodgers need to go after the best, and if that’s ARod at 30 mil, and they can do it..


    van 19, the past mistakes have brought us tho this future, i was 18 the last time the dodger one a playoff game and a world series. I’m just totally frustrated with the way things work out. i really don’t thing any player is worth 25 million or more, never.


    I still haven’t given up hope for this year. Everyone here is talking about next season like this one is over. How I wish that it suddenly would turn around and the flavor of this blog would change. Wishful thinking??? Go Dodgers!


    Why would A-rod come here? He can choose where he wants to go. We haven’t won a thing in 20 years. Were not really committed to winning, or else we would be winning.

    If we were committed to winning there would be at least one person in the front office besides LaSorda who has actually won something.


    californiaautorebuilder, I have a question for you, just out of curiosity. If the Dodgers had a guy at 3rd base this year who was hitting .300 with 39 HR’s and 120 114 RBI’s would we be 6 games behind the DBacks? Oh and by the way everybody else on the Dodgers would have their current stats….


    i’ll compare it again with the price market…

    everyone said that, when the things from the market are expensive…

    when signing a contract it’s not all about baseball… there is also a thing called business…

    u need to pay alot of money in order to get a superstar…


    One other thing, he wouldn’t have 114 rbi’s because are current line up wouldn’t be on base that much.


    Wow, it was one year ago today the ESPN game between Schmidt and Maddux happened that ended with the Martin walk off HR! A year ago and I was lucky to be there and I can still remember that game vividly…great moment and tremendous game!


    Nor would he be protected in our order, nor would he be hitting with a DH our order, nor would he be hitting in little band boxes but in huge stadiums out here.

    But Kiper, if he was, that would be rad.



    u can’t say that… it would be a whole lot different…

    the guys in our team are having hard time getting on base coz they think they need to hit it out… they think they are the one who can carry the team…

    If A-Rod is here… it would be more easier for the guys to get on base coz they know they have someone who can drive them in…


    Kiper is right, no doubt the thing most missing is what we all said was missing, a legit bat for the middle of the order.


    van 19, go to the yankee message board and praise A-Rod over there not here. He is a Yankee, and the Yankess are hated here just as much as the Giants.


    jungar, you’re right about all that. There is no way ARod would hit in the NL, look at Betemit, couldn’t hit here, hitting in NY. Right?


    But let’s back away from A-rod talk because Boras won’t deal with Bernie and McCourt won’t pony up for a 5 year 150 million dollar contract.


    Jungar and Kiper you think any of are guys could be the middle of the order threat.


    I believe that Loney and Kemp could be middle of the order threats, with more playing time, Grady, and with a little protection…


    I think McCourt would defieately go for A-Rod. He’s going to be really frustrated after this season and I definately think it’s a possibility.

    Anyways we could learn something from the Yankees-Winning with a monster payroll


    You are always so right on about the whole picture. There must be a baseball god somewhere. We have the talent. Look at Ethier, Loney, LaRoche, Young, Martin. They all can hit but what’s going on?? Somehow the Dodgers get on base but then what.. no totally isn’t that there is no offense. It’s just not in the right places. If there is a baseball god…it’s time for the situation to change. What was going on with the Rockies the first part of the season??


    The young guys we have are fantastic but you can’t expect them to carry the team which is what we’re asking of them right now. This offseason if we get a few veteran bats that actually have power we should be able to create what this season should’ve been(mixture of young guys and talented veterans)


    Van, I can honestly say that I disagree with the comment that just because A-rod is around that it will be easier for people to get on base. IF A-Rod was that big of a threat, then they would just pitch around him and pitch to whoever is batting behind him. We cant look to A-Rod to solve all of our offensive woes. What we need is for Pierre to stop trying to drive the ball out every time he is up and put the ball on the ground. Pierre has to understand that his greatest threat are his legs, and it doesnt matter how fast you are if you hit a pop fly. Pierre has 4 more years. Hopefully this year is one of transition for him, getting used to LA, and he will return in much better form for next year. As for this year, bring up the kids, get them ready for next year. Its gonna be a long 2nd half of August and September. Lots of playing time available for the kids.









    Gonzo, Sweeney, Nomar off the bench, this would be a feared threesome in pinch hitting situations. And then you DFA Martinez and Saenz. Nomar can back up 3rd, SS and 2nd Sweeney 1st….

    Does any body think this may work down the final 50 or so games?


    You no what the Dodgers need, is a good old fist a cuffs, good old rumble right on this pitcher’s mound to get all the juices flowing.


    I think it’s very realistic that this is our future

    2 Martin

    3 Loney

    4 Kemp

    5 LaRoche

    6 Ethier

    Problem is, they wont all be “MLB middle of the order ready” as a unit until at least 2009 IMO

    Oh, and I would love A-rod on our team. No doubt.


    Kiper I agree, LaRoche needs about 100 ab’s just to see where he stands for next year.


    Hey guys all this hitting talk..Lowe and Penny, when are their contracts up? Is it after 08 for both?


    Nomar is not going to get on track as far as his power. If anything he’s slowing down. Now is when you go get LaRoche, not Sept 1st, and put him in the line up and get him as many at bats as you can the rest of this season.. If he hits 3 HR’s it’s more than you were gonna get from Nomar.


    For Lowe it is I think we’ve got Penny through ’09. Nice contract extension by DePo. Does anyone know if there are any good FA pitchers this offseason available?


    the reason all the conversation is around hitting is because our pitching staff is doing a great job (except for Lurch and Lowe, but he needs to be placed on the DL). Tomko, Bills, and Penny are all giving us quality starts. If you want to make the playoffs, you need to score more than three runs a game.


    Oh yeah the only thing is he might be the first $200 million pitcher…

    Oh yeah there’s zambrano this offseason. I’m not sure I’d want him though I think he’s just too inconsistent and volatile.


    we dont need another ace, just someone to pick up the 5 spot in the rotation. Bills, Lowe, Penny, Meloan, and then #5 should do it for us next year.


    Schmidt’s coming back also remember. And I also don’t think we need an ace but better than a number 5. Probably a middle of the rotation guy


    so hypothetical for you guys. try to consider who we have already in our farm/mlb roster.

    + would you want A-rod years 33-38 for 25 millon a year


    + Santana at years 30-35 for 25 million a year

    I would go with Santana. He is far and above most others arms, has no big injury isses and dosen’t have the A-rod baggage.


    The second I see schmidt actually pitch like an ace again is when I belive he will be back. That injury is not a minor thing. He was already loosing velocity for three straight years. His 98 MPH fastball in 2002 was down to 93 in 06.


    hmm this is a tough one.

    I’d actually have to say A-Rod because it would bring a star quality to the dodgers that we haven’t had in a while. Plus we have Kershaw, Elbert, Meloan etc down in the farm but no one that we’re convinced has anything close to A-Rod’s power. Plus wouldn’t you like to see him bash bonds’ homer record in dodger blue? that would be incredible


    I know what you mean. I’m not convinced on Schmidt either. But I’d like to believe that this injury was there before we signed him. So now if it’s gone he can at least return to 2005 Schmidt numbers


    Let’s not get carried away about next year until we see what happens the rest of this year..I hope management sees that Nomar and Gonzo should be GONE….and pray that Ned makes better decisions this off season or we have no hope.


    I believe that Nomar will be back, he’d be an excellent utility/pinch hitter type guy and he’s always team first. Gonzo, classy guy, will be gone, maybe back in Az to play his final year, off the bench.


    yeah with Schmidt, I hope he does come back etc..We just can’t BANK on him to be an ace anymore like at one time. That’s all I mean.

    But don’t hope for 2005! Or we would get a 4.42 era and a 12-7 record.

    Yeah it is a tough call. It’s just that Santana is so far and above better than any arm, imagine him in Dodger Stadium instead of the homerdome. His numbers would be that much better. A-rod would be awesome to for the reasons you said. A Star and anchor for the middle of the order. Honestly couldn;t go wrong in either case.


    If Schmidt comes back healthy, he’s a good 3, that’s it. He wasn’t an ace coming in and I don’t think the Dodgers viewed him as one. With him healthy and Penny and Lowe and Bills you fill in the 5 spot and everyone stays healthy, this is not a bad rotation.


    Even when he is struggling I miss this guy. Will anyone get pissed out there for the Dodgers?

    For what it’s worth, it would be impossible to say or write anything about Eric Gagne that’s worse than what he was saying himself after yesterday’s game. Let’s return to Eric on the car phone.

    “It’s stupid,” he said. “They brought me here to do a job and I’m not doing it. I gotta step up my game. It’s ridiculous. These guys play eight great innings and I go out and blow it. That’s just . . . a shame.

    “It’s a bunch of (expletive) is what it is. You go out there and do your job. I’m not doing my job right now. I’m letting everybody here down. I need to step up my game and find my game. That’s it. It’s pretty simple.

    “This game is simple. I’m (expletive) this up right now.”

    And so it went.


    think again Kiper:

    “Jason is a top-of-the-rotation starter who can dominate a game as well as any pitcher in the major leagues,” said Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti. “He’s a proven winner and that’s something that’s very hard to find.”


    Ken and Grady have now both thrown the GM under the bus. All we need is McCourt. The same McCourt who said that Depo was fired due to team performance after giving him a vote of confidence only 3 weeks prior.

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