Homestand finale

Same lineup as yesterday with different results, hopefully. And for the superstitious types, the Think Blue sign will be back next homestand but it’s safe to say that that isn’t really to blame for the 1-4 homestand.

As for the pessimists among us, here’s something to keep you from jumping. In 1995, the Dodgers were 3.5 games out of first going into Aug. 5 games and still won the West. In 1983, they were actually 6.0 games out going into Aug. 5 and Fernando pitched a complete-game and they went on to win the division. And for those who don’t like to think back that long, last year the team was 2.0 games out on Aug. 5 and 4.0 games out on Aug. 1 and still made the playoffs. Just some food for thought, as I know we all are pretty frustrated these days.

Another amazing thing I though of last night during the game. Russell Martin has hit 10 homers in more in each of his first two big league seasons and Andre Ethier is about to do the same with his next homer. I assumed that either Piazza, Karros, Mondesi, Hollandsworth or anyone in the 80s or 70s might have done that, but believe it or not, you have to go all the way back to Jim Lefebvre in 1965-66 to find a Dodger who has done what Martin has already accomplished this year. There have been about half a dozen guys to hit 10 homers in their rookie year and sophomore year, but all of them had two rookie seasons (they played in the big leagues but did not pass up the rookie qualifications and were rookies again the next season).

336 Comments

I wonder how many homers Andre could have if he played everyday?

Let get one back today! Go Blue!

Brad,
Stop the bleeding.

we still need pitching, issues need to be addressed, wake up neddi

Just broke. LaRoche called up. Saenz DFA’d.

where did you hear that?

I call BS

I would be shocked if it was true.

1) 2007 Batting Lines
Jeff Francouer: .301/.347/.446

Brian McCann: .268/.319/.455

Andre Ethier: .300/.368/.460

Russell Martin: .294/.367/.464

and don’t forget this guy’s 2007:

Matt Kemp: .328/.372/.511

2) The lack of Kent in the lineup at this point convinces me that he should have been put on the DL, just like you would with any 40 year old with a hamstring injury. It’s not too late to still do that if he’s going to be out for another week or so. I bet Nomar, LaRoche, or Hu could play 2nd and be more useful than Ramon Martinez.

3) Luis Gonzalez’s last home run was on July 18 against Philadelphia, and his last one before that was June 24 against Edwin Jackson. That is to say, since June 24, he has started 30 games for a total of 1 home run. Andre Ethier has hit 3 homers since then in 24 starts, and Matt Kemp has hit 5 in 20 starts. Looking at Gonzalez’s general slump right now, is Grady Little really putting out the best lineup that he can out there?

4) One thing that was nice to see was that Rudy Seanez was effective last night. Outside of a recent nightmarish blip where his ERA rose from 2.98 to 4.32 and he gave up 6 of the 9 homers he’s surrendered this year, he’s been very effective. He now has 3.1 consecutive innings without being charged with a run – which is quite nice.

5) How much worse would that play have been if Derek Lowe had dove for the ball and made the play at first, but then injure himself in the process? It’s good to see Lowe back, and it should be good to see Penny this afternoon.

My understanding was that LaRoche tweaked his back two days ago when he was removed from the game after one AB. Saenz, however, should have been DFA’d weeks ago regardless.

LaRoche 13 HR in last 26 games… he has to be called up soon.

I also agree that Hu or Valdez would be a better 2nd base substitution for Kent than Martinez is, even if they would be playing out of position. I would have DFA’d Martinez several weeks ago as well.

I just saw that bit with LaRoche. Can Scott Proctor play 2nd or 3rd?

LaRoche is scheduled for an MRI on his back next week when the 51s return to Vegas. He has not been called-up.

just when he’s getting hot he gets hurt huh… darn.

I blame Stan Conte…

Luis Gonzalez represents a philosophical difference in the way that AZ and the Dodgers have handled their team makeup. AZ didn’t want Gonzo this season or going forward, and they opted to rely on a youngster for their outfield. That youngster didn’t do what I would call great, but he has been developing, is now on the DL, and another youngster has been brought up in his place. Gonzo has done reasonably well for us, but he along with Pierre has blocked and prevented us from playing and developing Ethier and Kemp together. Who’s to say how that decision will impact us by the end of the season. I think that Gonzo is on his way down the rest of the year and should no longer be relied on as a cleanup hitter. I would have to say that AZ has proven its point so far because of where they are in the standings. Wish that Loney had been with us from the very beginning of the season with that much more big league maturity behind him.

No, no just Gonzo, Pierre is in no way blocking Kemp or Ethier. They don’t want either of them playing CF. When you watch Kemp in the outfield, you can understand their concerns. Gonzo is/was a stopgap, because Kemp is still not ready. If Kemp grabbed that job last year, Gonzo would not be a Dodger. Ethier is the most consistant Dodger there is right now and to me the most underappreciated. He deserves to play everyday more than Kemp, Pierre and Gonzo.

I agree Alex. Kemp is a left fielder and most likely next year will play there full time with Ethier in right full time.

I want Eric Byrnes as a Dodger next year. He’s everything Pierre only DREAMS to be.

I for one would agree that DePo did better for the Dodgers than Colletti has. The only good thing I can attribute to Colletti is that he hasn’t given up our young talent. I’ll still take LOGAN WHITE in 2008!!!

You’re kidding me right? Please be joking?

I’ll give you Penny (barely), Kent and Lowe. After that go ahead…for every Penny there’s a Choi. For every Ethier there’s a Brett Tomko, there is no perfect GM. For every Steve Finley there’s a Jose Cruz Jr. and for every Greg Maddux there’s a Julio Lugo. Also, DePo traded Franklin Gutierrez for Candy Land. And I will repeat, if DePo had his way Penny would be pitching for the D’Backs today, instead of for us. No more talking about DePo, he’s gone and for good reason. Did he make good moves, at times yes. Did he make bad moves, without a doubt. The same applies to every GM out there. You expect perfection, you come out disappointed 100% of the time.

The problem I have with these dodgers is this… The Front Office is acting as if they are a small market team… They are relying on too many rookies or prospects and not enough proven veterans. They should be playing for the now always. Let the scouts do their job by getting great prospects then trade them away for proven veterans… I’m not saying pull a Yankees move and trade prospects for average players (IE Abreau), but to make the moves necessary to win now. If you are always playing to win now you have a much better shot to consistently win than to “hope for next year” in August.

but at least we have our prospects… “whatever good that does us” I hope you guys like 3rd place, because this is where our prospects have gotten us!

yeah that would be nice momo and he does have SF ties, right up coletti’s alley. i would have much rather thrown tht money at byrnes or hunter rather than the ultimate one trick pony that is juan pierre.

big papaduck we arent acting like a small market team. we are at abourt 120 million. it just seems that way when you are overpaying for such names as juan pierre and nomar garciaparra, and seeing little in return.

Wouldn’t you know as soon as the pitching and defense started to fall apart the hitting finally came alive. After being through so many ups and downs the last 2 years how can anybody lose hope? Anyway don’t forget this is the NL WEST. Here’s hoping PENNY can turn it around for us. LET’S GET A MOVE ON IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

You don’t know what you’re talking about, the Yankees won in 96, 98-2000, because they spent 1982-1995 developing their farm system after they got schooled by the Dodgers in the 81 series and it paid off. They went away from that system from 2002-2006, selling off prospects for veterans and they failed. They’re now realizing they need to replenish their depleted farm system and get back to what is a proven way to win. Combining young homegrown talent with veterans. That’s how you win, we have that in place for the next 5-10 years. I’d take that than trying to play for now. I can handle losing this season if it means being a top contender for the next ten. Rather than being a top contender this season and losing for the next ten.

Alex, other then Chio, who was a high-ceiling add-on in the Penny trade, what other terrible moves did DePo make?

Also, you keep brining up “if DePo had his way Penny would be pitching for the D’Backs today, instead of for us.” If thats an attempt to take a shot a DePo its pretty worthless since HE DIDN’T MAKE THE MOVE. Obviously he thought the deal wasn’t right for the team. I don’t know you you see that as somehow saying something negative about his judgment.

Tomko, Schmidt, Pierre, Nomar’s second contract. Four terrible signings. I would say thats about four more than Depo had in his 2 years.

It seems the only good thing we have to say about Ned at this point is that he hasn’t completely messed things up by trading our kids.

well depo get’s credit for getting us milton bradley and antonio perez, which ned then traded for ethier :)

so thanks to depo for that one

DePo wasn’t wonderful, but Ned’s track record so far is nothing to brag about.

Oh god…here we go, all under DePo’s watch:

Traded Dave Roberts (who would’ve been useful, but with Finley was expendable)

Odalis Perez 24 million dollars over 3 years (and you complain about Tomko)

Norihiro Nakamura

Ishii for Phillips (kind of a wash, since Ishii’s star had faded)

Choi (period)

Valentin

Ricky Ledee

Elmer Dessens

Wilson Alverez

Let Shane Victorino go in the Rule V Draft

Jose Cruz Jr. (granted it was because Drew was injured)

Let Alex Cora go (would’ve been more useful than Ramon Martinez)

Navarro for Green (salary dump and stopgap to Martin, not bad)

Realize that Andre’ Ethier is having this hot streak under two lousy conditions. #1 Not playing everyday and getting into that groove. #2. He is doing this from the 8 hole, with just the pitcher to protect him. It is not like he has a hitter behind him

Yea, they left out most of the bad stuff on DePo.

you forget to mention he brought in our two best pitchers this year in lowe and penny.

also our best hitter this year in kent, yeah he was just terrible

I wrote this an hour ago baseball101:

I’ll give you Penny (barely), Kent and Lowe. After that go ahead…for every Penny there’s a Choi. For every Ethier there’s a Brett Tomko, there is no perfect GM. For every Steve Finley there’s a Jose Cruz Jr. and for every Greg Maddux there’s a Julio Lugo. Also, DePo traded Franklin Gutierrez for Candy Land. And I will repeat, if DePo had his way Penny would be pitching for the D’Backs today, instead of for us. No more talking about DePo, he’s gone and for good reason. Did he make good moves, at times yes. Did he make bad moves, without a doubt. The same applies to every GM out there. You expect perfection, you come out disappointed 100% of the time.

I know he wasn’t perfect, i’m just tired of everyone saying he was a terrible GM and deserved to be fired. He deserved more time to find out how is moves would turn out. He never made a huge contract signing that turned out terrible, (Pierre and Schmidt). He made small moves that may turn out bad, but those were low risk, high rewards. Granted Drew left, but he was still productive besides a fluke hbp injury.

Nasty pitch from Penny! Lets get some runs!

Great start by Penny and a good indication that he’s OK. We can expect tough going against Webb, so let’s get to work. We need this game much more than the Diamondbacks do.

Furcal.. 1st pitch swinging, Pierre..K…Wow, what a start. But, we have Martinez in the game, the best .170 hitter in baseball..thanks Grady!!!

Let’s go through Alex’s list:

How would Roberts have been useful? Did you fall in love with his one stolen base in the ALCS?

Perez: Who was a better option on the FA market at that time?

Nakamura: Was he was brought in for a major role with the team?

Ledee: Ditto

Dessens: Ditto

Alvarez: That’s Dan Evans. Do you research.

Cruz Jr.: How did he do the year Depo brought him in? He wasn’t the one who resigned him. On top of that, he mashes lefties and in spite of his shortcomings, is still better than Pierre.

Victorino: Was actually plucked twice in the RV draft, once before Depo and once during. He’s still not better than Cruz.

Alex Cora: No way you’re serious.

Valentin: Got injured. How did he do for the Mets last season?

Choi: That’s Jim Tracy’s fault. Tracy had a bug in his rear about losing his beloved Loduca and took it out on Choi. Look at Choi’s ’05 and try to tell me how it is better than Nomar’s ’07.

Finally, your logic of a Nakamura canceling out a Lowe is as weak as it gets. Yeah, Penny hasn’t done more good than Ledee did bad. Good argument.

When you’re ready for a real baseball discussion instead of regurgitating Plaschke and Vic the Brick’s takes, look me up.

the one thing that Depo understood that maybe ned does not is bringing in “names” and “experience” doesn’t always lead to success. Talent, however, does. Yeah depo brought in a lot of scrubs but he also didn’t overpay for a “name brand”

I think with the exception of Coletti’s signing of Pierre, he’s done a good job. It’s not his fault Grady Little can’t put a decent line up out on the field. Maybe the Red Sox knew something when they fired Grady…..

Not only batting .170 but he can field to.. At a boy Martinez!!!

I can only assume that jhall does not actual see the Dodgers play but admirably follows them on radio or Gameday if he thinks Kemp is a left fielder. Kemp makes remarkable laser like throws from deep RF right to 3rd base or Home. Noone dares to run on him.

Yeah, Kipe. There was nothing wrong with signing Tomko, trading for Lugo, Baez, Carter and Hendrickson, re-upping Nomaaaah, unloading Betemit for a mediocre middle reliever, unloading Marlon Anderson in order to keep Martinez…

Good to hear from T.J that LaRoche will be back in the lineup tomorrow in Vegas…

I see kiper loves to hit the exclaimation point like subteen young girls. Who would you like playing 2nd today,kiper.

Sangabrielad, Thanks for doing the work for me.

I think you’ve clearly shown Alex’s “list” is pitiful. Other than maybe Odalis, not one terrible move in there. All the rest were as Sangeb says, low-risk, high ceiling, minor acquisitions. Certainly not anything close to Pierre (5 years 44 mil), Nomar (2 years, 18.5 mil)Tomko (2 years 8.7, mil, WOW), and Schmidt ( 3 years, 47 mil)

Hope you are right Miketink,
Kemps arm is not the problem.

He doesn’t get great jumps on the ball or take good routes alot of times. Granted this could get better with experience but Ethier has already displayed better instincts and also has an above average arm. Let Kemp play in less demanding left field and work on his hitting.

Hey Kiper, who hired Grady?

One thing I give DePo(unless McCourt had given him assurances but then changed his mind) is that he was willing to risk his job with a major trade. Very few have that in them.

always nice that your best hitter bats 8th

I didn’t understand your intentions jhall (call me mike) I thought you meant Kemp’s future was in LF. For the present, I can see your case; but he throws so much better than Ethier that I come down marginally the other way.

also nice when your number 8 hitter bats 2nd.

Man, Ethier is something else, as for the DePo discussion, good valid points. Just pointing out to you DePo’s other moves, that were good, bad or neither. Just don’t label DePo based off Lowe, Penny and Kent there was a reason he was fired, I’m just showing you some of his other ‘low-risk, high-ceiling, minor acquisitions’. I’m not calling DePo the devil, I’m not a DePo hater, nor a Ned lover, neither has done a great job, but to say Ned has done a horrible job or DePo did a terrific would be off base.

And that was a pretty pathetic inning…

good point manny

For my money I would add Furcal to the greatly overpaid and underachieving list put together by Colletti. I hope that Hu continues at his level in AAA and De Jesus comes on strong, because Furcal is not worth extending on his already overpaying contract.

Alex, points well taken.

This is getting tough to watch.

These last two times the Snakes and Dodgers have been up are perfect examples as to why we’re in third and they’re in first. Lead off double, we fail to move Ethier. Lead off double, fly ball to right moves Jackson to third, brings infield in, base hit scores Jackson. That in a nutshell is why we are where we are.

We all write silly things when we are annoyed, but to say Victorino is no better than Cruz is laughable. I don’t blame anyone for the Dodgers losing him but if he is put on waivers he will be claimed immediately unlike Cruz who was dropped by San Diego on July 31.

oh ****. This season is just getting harder and harder to watch.

wow, the umpire might as well have gone out to the mound and dropkicked penny and chased him all the way to the bullpen..man, they’re ego’s are getting in the way of their neutrality

The Furcal signing doesn’t bother me so much. It was made at a time when the Dodgers were in need of some credibility after the Tracy/Depo firing fiasco.

Also, I’d say Raffy was our best all-round player last year. This year, he’s been good in spurts. But I think thats primarily due to nagging injuries and the clubs reluctance to sit guys down when they’re hurting (i.e. Martin, Wolf, Kent, and Raffy, Nomar, ect.).

Overall, however, although he certainly hasn’t been a bargain (3 years, 39 mil), the short length of the contract as well as Raffy’s contributions on defense and with the bat make it a decent pick-up.

It’s good to see a little emotion.

In your opinions where do you think we can upgradenext year with some power? Keep Kent? Either in LF, Kemp in right, would be nice to add one of power hitting CF’s? ut no way we can unload Pierre.

Mike,
Either way will be fine in the long run I believe. Kemp has all the tools, just needs some seasoning. Ethier will fit nicely anywhere in the outfield.

It looks like Brandon Webb could beat anybody today.

hahaha Penny’s about to judo chop the ump. I hope he does.

Mike:

Last 3 years (OBP/SLG/OPS):

Victorino: .342/.424/.766

Cruz: .347/.436/.783

Victorino got to play half of his games in Philly. Cruz played half of his games in DS and Petco.

Mike: Jeff Cirillo was claimed off waivers. It doesn’t mean he’s any good.

Valdez or Betemit sure would have been a nice stand-in at 2B compared to Martinez, who doesn’t hit that well and who fields quite badly.

I know this is a sudden change from the stance I had yesterday about Ethier in the 8 spot, but Grady needs to move him up in the lineup now. The only problem is that there is still no one in the lineup to protect him. As for Byrnes…

release Pierre, move Kemp to center, Keep Byrnes in left, and Ethier in right. Byrnes seems to be able to cover as much of other people’s territory as Juan does… and he hits!!! and throws!!! and, well lets just say, he does do quite a bit more than JP does. Not sure about the speed though. I think Byrnes gives up some there, but the stolen bases are only an issue when he gets on base… if he gets on base. If you notice, the reason he has sooo man stolen bases is because he’ll go out and get two after a walk. I dont know how often Reyes is taking his, but he doesnt need to steal them as fast, because he’s on base more.

In a game like this all you can hope for is Webb making some mistakes. We’re not tireing him out, that’s for sure.

And Ethier sits in the eight hole…knock, knock, knock…HELLO!

Max: You were trying to use the insignificant signings to try and cancel out the great ones. It’s like handing you a $1 bill and taking a $100 from you and trying to say it’s even because they’re both the same size and shape.

Depo didn’t have the benefit of reaching into the minors to cover for whatever mistakes he made. Colletti had the advantage of an extra year of development for the great young core of players. As much as people want to exalt Colletti for not trading the youth (which he did when he jettisoned Guzman, Navarro, Tiffany, Jackson, etc.), Depo didn’t either and he was in a much more perilous position.

Colletti gets a free ride because he was a PR/Media guy (not the “real baseball guy” that has been sold) and the media wants to see one of their own do well. Depo, despite having more experience playing the game and being an executive, was never going to be anything more than the guy with the computer from Moneyball and the media couldn’t handle that. If Depo had spent more time attending the McCourts’ cocktail parties and hanging out with them, he’d still have a job.

Glad to see Ethier getting hit after hit after hit batting 8th.

Joe Torre told the Press after today’s game that he likes what Grady Little is doing and is considering batting A-Rod or Jeter 8th and 9th in the lineup.

It only makes sense to have your best hitters at the bottom of the order.

See Ethier has protection in the lineup…..Too bad its only every 5 days.

LOL, at Penny, gets hit on the finger, singles to left.

Frustration isn’t even the word for it anymore, that was the word back in April. I don’t even know what you call this on the field.

move penny and ethier into the 1 & 2 positions

How could PENNY bunt like that? Now we got see again.

My boy Webb is shutting us down. We have no chance against him. He’s the man!

4 back going to cincy and stl. I like the way this trip looks!

glad penny is okay..i was just about ready to blame stan conte for that one. He got a pass for now though.

Stan needs to go meet Victor and roid some of these guys up. Lets hit some homers!!!

the upcoming road trip and the day off are about the only thing that is helping me be optimistic at this point. But at the rate things are going, I doubt we could beat the royals at this point.

What is the Dodger Won & lost record for Sundays over the last 3 or 4 years? Anybody?

We seriously need to consider Penny for pinch hitting in place of Saenz. For that matter, Saenz and Martinez both should have been DFA’d way back around All Star Game time. Meloan should have been brought up then and probably would have proved that we don’t need to trade for a marginal reliever like Proctor. That would have left us with Betemit as a utility player and pinch hitter. We also could have brought up either Hu or Valdez to play second if necessary to spell Kent, even if they were out of position. Anything along these lines would have been better than having Saenz and Martinez continuing on this ballclub.

I also think that Ethier should be moved up to the third slot in the batting order with Martin getting back to fifth or sixth.

or switch loney with ethier, that would work as well…

some people are speculating that they didn’t want to bring up meloan b/c it would start his arb. clock, so they needed to trade for a reliever. i can’t believe we’d actually be THAT cheap. One inning pitched 3 K’s for him today in LV. I hope the next time they need a reliever they don’t hesitate because of money.

It’s seems the only thing to wake the Dodgers up is if the pitching goes bad. Good pitching bad hitting, they seem to be going togetter.

Same lineup ,same results. I really didn’t expect anything different with Ned and Grady in charge. Maybe when people stop going to the park Frank will make the proper changes.

7 innings 3 runs that’s quality pitching. just like HENDRY, TOMKO & BILLS. Our pitching is fine.

same lineup last night gave us 7 runs. Today, 0 runs…i got to think the reigning cy young award winner has a little something to do with it.

sang: If you had said Victorino is no better than Cruz was when Cruz was Victorino’s age-no argument. But in the context of a GM discussion don’t even try comparing stats on these 2 players. Victorino over 7 years younger,faster- can play CF, has 32 SB in 35 attempts. No GM would take Cruz over Victorino.

Thankfully KENT should be back in the lineup tuesday.

Interesting List of Pitchers that Ned Colletti Likes (brought in)

Saito: Terrific

Baez- Terrible

Carter-Putrid

Schmidt – damaged goods, most did like the deal in the off season

Wolf – damaged goods, but pitched well for a couple months

Tomko equals Bomko

Hendrickson versatile pitcher

Proctor – jury is out

Hernandez: He is young, so we will see…

You could argue that Ned is 1 for 9, because many hate the Proctor deal.

At best: 2.5 for 8 and a TBD

At some point in time Colletti has to be held accountable for his judgement and the performance of his guys!

Grady and Ned = FIRED

wth a pinch hitter and its NOT olmedo…. grady must be sick.

Thank god football is here and the Steelers are on tonight!

seanez and beimel were pretty good pickups for our bullpen as well. Nothing spectacular, but steady bullpen pitchers nonetheless

Do you really think the lineup has anything to do with it? How could anyone possibly know who to put up there?

This lineup blows!

Did Furcal almost hit a 3 run homer earlier?

Do you really think the lineup has anything to do with it? How could anyone possibly know who to put up there?

Posted by: pierreseastmeetswest@yahoo.com | August 5, 2007 03:04 PM

every easily..

i thought everyone could see the future around here?

very*

The 2007 Dodgers unfortunately fall short of being a contender. Too many old veterans just shy of being productive players anymore, and some rookies just too raw to contribute consistently yet.

The D’backs stuck with their rookies and look at them now. One can only hope the front office isn’t too stupid to stick with ours until they get a problem handle on the whole Big League thing. 2007 goes to the altar of the rookies, and I’m fine with it. I’d rather be a “Rah!” team in 2008 or 2009 than limp along on washed-up veterans each year thanks to stupid trades or signings.

Bring on 2008, but right now I’m also looking forward to football – and I’m supporting a bad team, no less! ;-P

Ick – read “proper” for “problem” in that handle bit :-D

saw the Cirillo comment-silly
Victorino is a starting OF with good stats just learning to steal bases from Lopes any team would grab him in a second.Cirillo will be 38.Cruz no team wants.Your arguments on your main points are intlligent stop being silly with me.

Now another point that really annoys me-When Anderson was DFAed to make room for Tsao Martinez was on the DL not on the roster. There’s enough to criticize in Colletti’s decisions without this canard.

Look at the roster on June 29 and tell me who to cut. Anderson was the only reasonable choice.A bad one in hindsight but noy at the time. Please don’t bring it up again-it’s incorrectly used as ammunition by the Grady is stupid people like kiper

the 2007 season is far from over. We barely are in August. I for one, am not ready to pack it up and call it a season. Our pitching is still strong and our offense has shown the ability to pick it up again.

Just a couple weeks ago people were excited about our offense and we were consistently scoring runs and people were attributing it to bill mueller taking over as hitting coach and our guy’s finally hitting the ball hard. I highly doubt that all goes away in 2 weeks time.

The Dodgers will start hitting, they eventually come out of these slumps. When? How? That we never know. Facing some bad pitching usually gets the ball rolling. Maybe we’ll fine some in Cincinnati or St. Louis. KENT can usually do some clutch hitting.

marlon’s DFA was so long ago, but people still bring it up because now marlon is getting consistent playing time in NY with the injury to Alou and he’s producing what we all knew he would. Wow, what a shock there.

Might as well bring up the fact that we didn’t offer Chase Utley enough money for him to sign with us out of high school while you’re at it. Utley would be so great in our lineup right about now wouldn’t he? Now that i think of it, i wish i knew the lotto numbers to last wednesday’s super lotto jackpot. O wells.

The Dodgers will start hitting, they eventually come out of these slumps. When? How? That we never know. Facing some bad pitching usually gets the ball rolling. Maybe we’ll fine some in Cincinnati or St. Louis. KENT can usually do some clutch hitting.

Posted by: pierreseastmeetswest@yahoo.com | August 5, 2007 03:17 PM

facing bad pitching will surely get the ball rolling again. A trip to cincy and st. louis might be what we need right about now :)

3 for 40 with RISP. We’ve heard that before and then suddenly we might lose some pitching edge and then before you know it, we’re hitting again.

There are obvious problems with this roster. Why doesn’t our genius GM start to address those? This team will win again, but they are not going to win in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs, and that’s a big IF.

The sooner this happens the better, of course. I was hoping for Valverde, too bad I was figuring the change would help. Say that was a good 2 innings from Scott Proctor. So far that deal is working for both teams.

No big shocker there 17 AB’s zero hits Nomar vs. Webb, but what can you do? He had to play.

Good comments casinod-just want to add Utley would have signed for some amount but he very much wanted to play at UCLA.

8 first pitch outs today.

the free fall continues.

about the first pitch thing–yes i agree its tiring, but nomar isn’t going to change it, thats what he does. plus with webb he has very good control, sometimes you can’t wait for him to go strike one, strike two on you before you swing the bat. as far as giving up on this season im not, and since im a raiders fans not too much to look fwd to!

Eight shutout of the season, twice in three games. This is so sad, it’s the opposite of last season, after the trade deadline we were inspired and played like champs. After this deadline, we’re playing like losers. Can’t wait to hear Grady’s joke after the game!

… 8 first pitch outs, thats giving webb 1/3 of the game on 8 pitches… simply horrible.

pierreeast….good point, the 2 innings from proctor was nice to see. That relieves pressure off grady and the guy’s in the bullpen, so they could get the extra day of rest with the off-day tommorow and be more fresh for the upcoming road trip.

“Can’t wait to hear Grady’s joke after the game!”

me too.

Hopefully its something like “yeah losing is frustrating but so is me trying to get into my jock strap”

We’re proberbly will see a lot of first pitch strikes. Everybody will figure the Dodgers will be told not to swing too soon, be more patient. Take some pitches. whether this will help it’s hard to say. I think today was all Brandon Webb. This is a funk that I hope the players don’t take home with them(We can worry about it but not them). Maybe Tuesday will be a new start. The same thing happened last year just before the strecth drive. Of course that can’t happen every year but__ who know? NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WE’LL ALL KEEP ROOTING FOR THEM.

Mike: Tony Abreu could have been sent out when Anderson was activated.

The Cirillo comment was to counter your rationale that since someone hasn’t been claimed, they must not be good while someone who is must be better.

Victorino is getting everyday PAs, but that doesn’t mean anything. Pierre is in the starting lineup everyday and he stinks. And you’ll have to do better than “He has good stats and is learning to steal bases”. Try interjecting a fact to back up whatever point you have.

casino: Yeah, July 11th was so freaking long ago. You must be shocked that anyone can remember it.

Do some of you even bother to do research before typing something?

I don’t know enough to discuss the pitch thing. Nomar saw 6 pitches today but as posted above he’s always like that;Ethier saw 8 pitches today but he got 2 hits,Martin swung at 2 first pitches but 1 was his double.
Btw I count 7 first pitch outs plus Martin’s double.

one thing to remember… the cards almost backed themselves out of the playoffs last year, they had a horid september and still came back to handle detroit in the WS

sangabriellad..i’m not even going to respond to your post, i dont even know what you’re talking about half the time, and you’re mr. know it all attitude is worthless to me.

Carry on, and have a good time, but don’t try to chide me into getting into a debate with you. I’m not into the style where i’m trying to prove myself right everytime with stats/facts/tidbits like you are, so go ahead and do all the research you want to prove your point. Good for you.

fezzik..good point. It was amazing how the cards of all teams won the world series last year. Simply amazing how they put together a great run. Equally amazing was they had jeff weaver pitching for them to help them do it. What are the chances of that happening?

Fine casino. If you just want to take the street preacher approach and randomly babble while expecting no one to take you up on your points, then knock yourself out.

please don’t compare this team to that cards of last year. Thats laughable.

casino: Yeah, July 11th was so freaking long ago. You must be shocked that anyone can remember it.

Do some of you even bother to do research before typing something?

Posted by: sangabrielad@yahoo.com | August 5, 2007 03:46 PM

marlon anderson was DFA’d June 29th.

So maybe you’re the one that needs to do research before typing. Listen to your own advice, and it’ll make your posts more credible instead of trying to put someone down with a snide comment like that, not to mention the fact that it makes you look juvenile with that i told you so attitude when you made the same mistake.

Fine casino. If you just want to take the street preacher approach and randomly babble while expecting no one to take you up on your points, then knock yourself out.

Posted by: sangabrielad@yahoo.com | August 5, 2007 03:53 PM

thanks I appreciate your candor.

Im not comparing the talent, just the streaks of the game

This blog is tiring to read now. Same ****, lots of complaining and finger pointing. Maybe they should change the format to have different response threads daily; one could be “People who like to be rude to each other and act like pompous, know-it-all a-holes” and another can be “Serious Dodger conversations by people who hold differing points of view but still act civil.” Then, those people who don’t like reading through 50 not-worth-reading posts to find the interesting ones will have an easier time navigating the blog.

Sang:You are getting annoying. Nomar’s first game at 3rd was June 26. Abreu was getting extensive playing time at 3rd and 2nd then.The front office needed more time to see if Nomar would work out. Hindsight is easy but you are wrong only in theory could Abreu be sent down
then.

I’m smart enough to know why you made the slly Cirillo (I like the sound of that)comment. My point is that no team has any interest in Cruz and Victorino is an up and coming relatively young player. I’m sorry you take things so literally I should not have mentioned that Victorino would be pick up off waiver immedately since there’s no chance he will be put on waivers.Are you a lawyer?

I gave you a fact 32 SB,3CS.

The important date is June 29 not July 11. And, of course, I agree that too many post without doing research but in this case(ie Abreu circa June29) it’s you.

Hope you get to see this.Hope you don’t answer with more lawyerly points.

Oh god…here we go, all under DePo’s watch:

Traded Dave Roberts (who would’ve been useful, but with Finley was expendable)

Odalis Perez 24 million dollars over 3 years (and you complain about Tomko)

Norihiro Nakamura

Ishii for Phillips (kind of a wash, since Ishii’s star had faded)

Choi (period)

Valentin

Ricky Ledee

Elmer Dessens

Wilson Alverez

Let Shane Victorino go in the Rule V Draft

Jose Cruz Jr. (granted it was because Drew was injured)

Let Alex Cora go (would’ve been more useful than Ramon Martinez)

Navarro for Green (salary dump and stopgap to Martin, not bad)

Posted by: alex41592@aol.com | August 5, 2007 01:08 PM

alex, almost none of those moves cost us that much either in terms of money or players to acquire. Sure, they didn’t quite workout, but what did we lose? They were low risk deals for the most part. Odalis Perez is was the worst DePo move, and no one can defend DePo on that one.

For me it’s easier to handle a loss like this, or the string of them that we’ve had recently, by thinking: “It’s just another loss closer to the end of the “Ned and Grady Show” !!!

victorino’s stats arent even worth posting you are mistaken sangabielad…he is batting in the two hole for a reason. he has flourished there in that philly lineup. he even hits for power so i dont know why you tried to bark up that tree…victorino dwarves cruz. i like how you tried to use the three year timetable too, that is so irrelevant.

alex, i just finished reading the rest of the discussions about the topic… and i see your points as well.

At least we know the dodgers won’t lose tomorrow…

The DFA date and the release date…and you try to say I’m talking like a lawyer? You’re the one who said, “The DFA was so long ago”. Yes, a little over a month is such a long time.

My research comment was based on saying, “He has good stats”. Don’t just say it, give your evidence.

Look, don’t paint me as the bad guy because I’m making you back up the things you say. I gave you Victorino’s numbers vs. Cruz’s. I used the last three seasons. Throw in 07 and (without looking at it), I’m guessing their OPS is about the same (Cruz might be a little ahead). Use Park Adjustment (I’d explain that here, but it’d fall under the half the time you don’t understand what I’m saying) and Cruz has the edge. The advantage for Victorino? He’s in a starting lineup. Victorino’s #’s wold be great for a CF, but he’s playing right. He’s nothing more than league average as a RF. So don’t pretend he’s special out there. Beside, Victorino was long gone before the Dodgers picked up Cruz.

And really, if letting Victo get picked in the Rule V draft is one of Depo’s biggest mistakes, then he had a lot better tenure than most of you try to give him credit for.

You’re right graffiti…it’s all about what you do this year. The past is so insignificant. Trends are stupid.

sang; i know those comments were addressed to casinod and others but you ignored all of my work. You are the one who said Victorino is no better than Cruz and you are correct-except that he is no better than the Cruz of 7 years ago when Cruz was a Blue Jay. That’s how good he is. And he would look great for us in CF right now (whereas Cruz would not)But I don’t blame anyone I just praise the Phillies for having the time and patience he needed.
Now as I explained the DFA date is important because Abreu was still too important to send down on June 29 although in hindsight that would have been the best thing.

Perhaps you missed my 32 SB 3CS stat on Victorino .

Mike: I’ll admit a little hyperbole w/ Victorino, but in so far as rates, they’re comparable. Is Victorino the better player this year? Yes. Both Cruz and Victorino, though, would be better options in center (not that that’ saying much).

When comparing the two, though, you can’t ignore the effects of their parks and the quality of opposition.

Victorino’s SB success rate is good, but you need to give me more than that. Put Cruz in Victorino’s spot and he’ll get similar #’s (less SBs but more HR).

Btw sang Victorino is virtually a 2nd year player and he has done more in 2/3 the games he played last year than he did all of last year so his trends are up esp. in SBs. Cruz cannot stay on a ML roster for a full year any more.
Yes I’m the one who called you lawyerly, cacinod said you had a mr. know-it-all attitude. IMO lawyerly is worse.

The funny thing is I tend to agree with your main thesis on DePo but you obviously have a problem with being wrong as you are on the Victorino vs Cruz in 2007 story.

Sorry we were writing at the same time since your being lets say more approachable.Cruz on a park adusted basis might have 1 or 2 more HRs than Victorino but a whole lot less SB.
But this is silly we both have better things to do.

Some other time.

I’ve said this all along..We won’t win with Grady…and now I’m afraid of how Ned is handling his GM job..Does anyone think Betemit should have played 3rd base today, since Nomar is 0-16 off Webb?
Oh, I forgot, we don’t have Betemit anymore because we needed bullpen help..!! Well, excuse me, we need hitters..and if Saenz and Martinez remain as our bench players, we have NO chance…I said this several weeks ago, and I’m sorry to say it, but I believe the Dodgers will end up behind the Rockies..who have a much better team…hitters are great, pitching is better…and remember we have 4 games with the Rockies in Sept…I can’t stand this team right now..and I worry that we have to endure 4 more years of Pierre…who was always a bad signing…Schmidt and Wolf were also bad signings..In fact Ned couldn’t have had a worse off season..No thunder in the line up and TERRIBLE defense…last in National league and maybe all of baseball…Not a recipe for winning baseball.

Please Dodgers, please do something about Grady so we don’t have to endure all of these bad decisions for years to come…What are the chances they get rid of Grady?? slim and none probably.

And lastly, everyone is talking about putting together a winning streak like the DBacks…we don’t have that kind of team…too many injuries….and not good enough anyway…Very sad about this…Hopefully Dodger management reads this blog and does something constructive.!!!!!!!

thats laughable. ill takes victorino’s average speed and power. outside of a few homers park adjustment really doesnt apply to the type of player he is. nice try though play the everyone else is stupid card. i think its fair to assume park adjustment is pretty easy to understand . no matter how you slice it victorino brings much more to the table.

why are people arguing about players that aren’t even on our team? It’s not their fault we have a horrible offense.

Pierre is a huge problem. Gonzo is starting to become one and Nomar although some say he has “turned it around” just isn’t an everyday player at this point.

Gonzo and Nomar are the easiest of the problems to solve IMO. Gonzo hopefully won’t be here next year and Nomar may be forced out of his position again if LaRoche is given a chance.

Pierre has been an even bigger bust then I expected. I think i said on this blog perhaps it was another one that the Pierre signing was a bust the minute it happened. He’s had a downward trend in his numbers for almost 4 years now.

This season has been the worst of his career. I know some of you will say “he leads the team in hits” or “look at his stolen bases”.

His hits are misleading. His BA is way low for a guy with 200 hits and his OBP is so low that there are 141 players in front of him with a higher OBP.

When he’s not getting on base he’s making outs. Thats why he leads the league in outs and as we all know outs are bad.

JP isn’t our only problem but he’s one of our biggest if not our biggest. The other problems will work themselves out in time but JP’s won’t.

jeez. our whole offense is struggling right now (sans ethier) so i don’t think its fair to come down on anyone one person. We’ll get it going again. Oh and as far as Odalis yes its was a bad move for Depo but can’t we say (not knowing how or if he will pitch again) that the Schmidt signing was worse? just sayin.

I see kiper loves to hit the exclaimation point like subteen young girls. Who would you like playing 2nd today,kiper.

Posted by: miketink@gmail.com | August 5, 2007 01:46

Hey, miketink, this one’s for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know where you can shove them!!!!

How about the players the Dodgers have gotten rid of?
Anderson ( much better than Martinez or Saenz… and Anderson can play 2nd base)…Jayson Werth ( remember him?…was hurt and has come back with the Phillies and doing very well..always liked him , but he got injured and the Dodgers discarded him…and even Cody Ross is better than the stuff we have sitting on the bench..The front office is asleep at the wheel….and when it is dealing, doing a poor job…What are we going to do with 4 more years of Pierre.??…I wanted Kenny Lofton this off season for at least another year, while they figure out center field..Rememember, Kenny was a good hitter and was on base alot..in fact, I think that’s what made us more successful last year because Furcal and Lofton were on base alot more than Furcal and Pierre…I’m so disappointed in this team and I don’t have the hope I would like because of Grady..and now maybe Ned…depressing…another mediocre team for the Dodgers..When will they ever get it right???…almost 20 years and counting..

id like to see this lineup.

Furcal

Martin

Ethier

Kent

Loney

Kemp

Nomar

Pierre

you can’t tell me that won’t be productive.

Hey max, that line up will never work for Grady because it makes to much sense, the Dodgers might be succesful.

Since June 23rd the day after that bad loss to the Mets:

Furcal: 13 for 46 (.283) with 7 walks (20 for 53 .377)

Pierre: 8 for 44 (.182) with 5 walks (13 for 49 .265)

Martin: 11 for 44 (.250) with 5 walks (16 for 49 .327)

Kent: 13 for 20 (.650) with 1 walk (missed last 6 games) (14 for 21 .667)

Gonzo: 9 for 40 (.225) with ZERO walks

Nomar: 13 for 38 (.342) with 5 walks (18 for 43 .419)

Loney: 8 for 39 (.205) with 3 walks (11 for 42 .262)

Ethier: 11 for 28 (.393) with 3 walks (14 for 31 .452)

Kemp: 2 for 22 (.091) with 1 walk (3 for 23 .130)

Saenz: 0 for 12 (.000)

Martinez: 6 for 23 (.261) with 1 walk (7 for 24 .292)

When Kent comes back the most productive lineup possible would be:

Furcal

Martin

Ethier

Kent

Loney

Nomar

Gonzo

Pierre

Thoughts?

I’d like to say I didn’t read Max’s lineup before putting that together…interesting

Max & Alex

I’d love to see either of those line-up, but as Kiper says, it simply makes too much sense for Grady to actually do it.

I like both lineups, only i’d want LaRoche in there in place of nomar. I perfer Kemp over Gonzo too.

Yeah, LaRoche (if healthy) is the offensive spark we need. I’m fine with Nomar moving back to 1st to accommodate this. It’s not as if Loney is providing much power these days…

Congrats to Tom Glavine.

Sac flies, sac bunts, and HBP also factor into the on base percentage equation. Granted there are very few of those for a position player.

where were all you guys in April when I said Coletti was a disaster and we would never win with him in charge? I recall where you were, you were telling me I was negative, that I wasn’t a true dodger fan, that I had a poor out look on life and that stats mean nothing.

“Another amazing thing I though of last night during the game. Russell Martin has hit 10 homers in more in each of his first two big league seasons and Andre Ethier is about to do the same with his next homer . . . you have to go all the way back to Jim Lefebvre in 1965-66 to find a Dodger who has done what Martin has already accomplished this year.”

Not quite. Mike Piazza hit 35 home runs his rookie year, an LA Dodger rookie record, and at the time an LA Dodger single season record. He hit 24 the next year in 1994 and would have hit more than 30 had there been no player strike. He hit 32, 36 and 40 each of the next three years before Fox decided to give him away in a trade that still makes my blood boil. Russell Martin is so far the best of the Dodgers farm system but let’s not quite elevate him to rock-star status yet.

socal..exactly. Here are his 97 stats when he got robbed out of the MVP award.

104 runs

32 doubles

40hr

124 rbi

.362/.431/.638/1.070

momoracci are yo seriously that impatient? we agree on most things, but james loney moving off first isnt close to being one of them. yeah he is slumping a bit, but at this point what message would that send? to me it says only the veterans have the right to slump….which is just absurd. anyone else notice gonzo’s lack of confidance lately? maybe he was pressing against his former team , but it is obvious josh byrnes mad the right move. it seems like right when gonzo gets behind lately he’s been whiny with the umps and virtually has done nothing the last month plus. ned’s ark looks to be taking in some water right now, will it stay afloat?

You know, we can come up with all the line ups in the world and you can even pencil A-Rod in at third, but, without pitching we will not win anything. Ned Coletti needs to address that situation before we worry about LaRoche or Martinez or Saenz or any other “hitter” that may come to our rescue. We need pitching, and right now it’s Penny, Bills and then…Tomko and Hendrickson. I get the feeling that Lowe is going to be a liability down the stretch as he tries to pitch hurt. We talk about our great young hitters everyday on this blog, well how about our great young pitchers in the minors? Isn’t it time for them to come up and show what they have? It can’t be any worse than it is now….

i know ethier is much more comfortable hitting in the 8th and 7th spot… but he is the hottest hitter on the team right now…
i think he deserves to be on the 6th spot… so he can protect nomar…

we need to score some runs…

nothings happening right now…

they didn’t even make webb sweat…

they were all hitting the first pitch…

4 game losing streak and 4 games behind arizona…

the only positive note with this is we are still going to see alot more of the teams in our division and try to win games to get back on first place…

the lineup is just unacceptable…

ur hottest hitter hitting in the 8th spot? what a mess…

well for me the lineup should have been like this…

Furcal

martin

Loney

kent

nomar

ethier

gonzo

kemp

this has alot of offense on it… but doesn’t have that much speed…

right now i would prefer to have JP out coz he’s not getting on base and if he’s not on base he can’t use his speed…

maybe if JP is our pinch hitter he would do good… lol

It looks to me like our two AAA starters this year, Stultz and Houlton, have already been up with the Dodgers, and neither made much of a statement. We can reach down to AA and possibly come up with two more deserving a chance to see what they can do, and I’m all for that. Meloan should have been up already taking Hernandez’ place. Looking over our minor league rosters, it looks to me like some of our best pitching talent there is among the relievers. How difficult is it to try and convert a minor league reliever into a starter – maybe we should give that a thought and a try, because this pitching problem is not going to end with this season. I don’t expect Schmidt to come back, and it may be all over for Wolf as well.

The Furcal/ Pierre combination at the top of the lineup is not working as it was intended, except rarely. Early on Grady indicated that he would try Pierre in the leadoff slot except against LHP’s. He tried it maybe a game or two and then gave up on the idea. Since leadoff is Pierre’s natural batting position, and since Grady seems determined not to bat him lower than second or to have him ever sit out a game, why not try him in leadoff. At least when he gets on, he can create havoc on the bases, which Furcal does not seem to do this season. Furcal has not produced well in leadoff, whether it be his ankle problem or some other reason. I think it would be worth a try, regardless of the merits of shifting the batting order around in other respects.

That’s just it, you say that Stultz and Houlton have been up already, but they need a chance to perform, 2 or 3 starts. As young as they are, can they be any worse than Tomko? Really? When your seeing your division get away from you, and the Dodgers should have runaway with the west, you have to do something to get it back before it’s to late. Yes they have alot of games left and there are still several games against the Dback and Padres, but at what point do the Dodgers, Grady, say “hey we need to pick it up now, maybe panic a little bit” there is no sense of urgency within management, at least in my opinion.

Yes, I would give Stultz and Houlton another couple of regularly scheduled starts to get a better sense of whether they can handle it at the major league level. If Lowe is bothered by his hip, that should be one opportunity for either of the two, and a replacement start for Tomko should easily be another opportunity.

Yes sir. Kudos to Lowe for pitching hurt, but ultimately when a pitcher does that it just makes things worse. I’d rather lose Lowe for a couple of starts and give these 2 guys a shot at keeping the Dodgers close and then have Lowe healthy for the September run.

messagebear
u can’t bat furcal 2nd…

coz of his bad ankle he hasn’t have that speed he has last year so if he hit it in the ground there is a sure double play…

not like if JP is hitting 2nd he can bit the throw to 1st base…

i think that’s the reason why furcal stays in leadoff…

kiper…
i think the dodgers are panicking rayt now…

u know this organization…

even if they think that the thing they did is bad they will talk to the people as though it is the perfect thing that has ever happen in the world…

this team has alwayas think positive… and so am i…

but right now… there is nothing positive in this team…

im not giving up yet, though…

i hope this struggle wont take long… coz right now we need to win… as in WIN!

kiper you are going a bit overboard pal. as bad as tomko seemed he kept us in that game against the giants. im not singling out any one problem but the sticks just arent producing. i have no clue as to why we traded for proctor over giving meloan a shot…true nomar has been hitting but betemit was too versatile to make that deal. whether or not anyone wants to admit it, betemit is a much better option at second than martinez. martinez cant even make a routine throw to home anymore…

van, i agree with you. I’m staying positive to and i believe they can still win it. My thing is, Grady talks after every game like it’s no problem to lose 4 in a row to division foes, Gonzo said yesterday after the game, this team last year did the same thing than got hot, yeah they did but we can’t expect to win 19 out of 21 like last year. We need consistency and that’s what Grady needs to strive for.

kiper
i agree with that too…

but just like what i said…

no one in this team wants to admit that they are losing…

the only person i know that is really voicing out his frustration is Kent…

he said he is frustrated losing…

did u hear McCourt’s interview sunday?

when vin is saying that the team is not doing good McCourt only wants to talk about Think Cure…

i eman Think cure is great but hey ur team is struggling do something…

mean*

I went to two games out of the last four. Both games the Dodgers lost. It’s disappointing that they have lost 12 out of the last 16. It seems that that the last few games they haven’t had their hearts in it. Possibly a little lethargic. They seem to have lost their spark. Furcal didn’t make those sharp bullet throws. There were problems with defense at second base. You had to be there to see it. The only players that seem to be playing all out are Ethier and Martin. Martin even has a sore ankle but it’s hard to tell when you see him playing because he is so intense with every play. Remember he in involved in every throw. He’s also been in 100 games already this season, more than any other catcher. Ethier is so awesome. He even was out signing autographs for the fans for several minutes before the game. It was sad during the Thursday game when the fans were yelling at Tomko about his pitching. We need to support our guys. They’re definitely in a slump but there’s still a month and a half left. We just need to support the guys and the front office because morale is everything. Possibly the Barry Bonds thing had an effect on them. Everyone at the SF Giants games were all Barry. It was a lot of stress for everyone. You had to be there to see it. Take it from a fan that goes to quite a few games. Let’s all just be behind our LA guys!! When everyone is healthy: Jeff Kent back in the lineup, Russell’s ankle well again, Derek Lowe’s hip 100%, we’ll see a difference!!

xoxrussell…
i agree with you that it might be becoz of barry that’s why they are struggling in the dodgers vs. giants SERIES…

but before barry came this team is already struggling…

so i wont say it’s all barry…

and it’s not even fair to blame it to someone when you are losing coz for them to be able to win they need to be a team…

right now i think they are on their own minds…

i agree with u russel and ethier are the only one who is trying to win right now… and that’s not enough…

they all need to contribute…

we are now in third and with colorado right behind us. are we going to be in fourth place by the end of the week? i certainly hope not. thank goodness we have a day off, maybe we can get some enthusiasm going in the batters box. Is our next move to fire Meuller the new hitting coach?

graffiti-

It’s not so much impatience as it is trying to find a power source. Yes, I know LaRoche hasn’t done it at the big league level yet; but he wasn’t given a real opportunity (not mention him being hurt at the time).

Don’t get me wrong – I’m a Loney fan. But if I had to choose one “kid” to take over a corner infield spot, it would be LaRoche because of his power potential.

mjmleon
i don’t think we have problem on hitting…

its more on mental part…

coz the guys are getting on base they just couldn’t get situational hits…

I wish I can find out how this on line chat thing works. The last time I signed on for Lasorda I couldn’t go any further. Now my question is, What happened to Colletti?

pierreseastmeetswest

i think even if you get in on it they would not choose that question…

coz the only questions they answer are those on the positive note…

like when u say…

i love that u didn’t trade our youngsters…

or like:

i love what u did on the organization…

they wouldn’t accept questions like:

what happen to the dodgers, i thought they are going to be in the 1st place?

or what happen to you ned?

but we are just on the same thing pierreseastmeetswest coz i couldn’t get on the chat too…

oh so is LaRoche really hurt?

i think i saw this one coming…

from the time that they traded betemit i said that LaRoche should be called up soon but they didn’t…

i said to my self what are they w8ting for? do they want LaRoche hurt before he gets called up?

and right now it actually happen…

he’s hurt…

this worries me alot…

i don’t know what is the plan of the management…

A-Rod might opt out of his contract next year and if we are going to try and get him we the dodgers fans will lose the opportunity to see LaRoche play healthy… coz they are going to waste LaRoche’s talent and make him a trade chip…

what i mean is i like A-Rod here… everyone does…

but everyone also wants to see some piece of hitting from LaRoche’s bat…

LaRoche hurt his back on a check swing a few days ago, but he took batting practice yesterday. He should be OK now.

Sorry guys, were just not good enough.

Pierre and Furcal are slap hitters being paid like mashers.

Nomar, Kent and Gonzo are paid as if they were in their primes and are expected to hit like they are in thier primes and they can’t do it over 162 games like they used to. Don’t argue with me about it because the proof is in the results. Gonzo was great, now he is 39. Kent, 39 and hurt. Nomar great 2nd half, non existenten first half. Pierre, Furcal don’t get on base enough to justify 21 million between them. All those games and times you guys said, hey why so down, were in first place..but we should have been stretching our lead out, not just maintaining.

When you have single hitters like we do then your offense goes thru stretches like ours will. Is Mueller all of a sudden not the saivor like he was a month ago? No, it’s just the law of avg. When you consistently have to have 3 to 4 hits to score a run, it’s taxing. Sometimes it takes a 3 run bomb or even a solo homerun to win.

The defense is the worse dodger defense I have seen in 5 years. The pitching is ok, but never was much better than what the Padres or Arizona had. Tomko and Hendu are back ups to two injuries that were pretty bound to happen. Tomko and Hendu Era since July 1 is over 6.50.

So go ahead guys, blame Matt Kemp or James Loney. Belive it when Ned tells you that we got unlucky with injuries and our kids struggled a little during the pennant race.

He put a poor product on the field, for twice as much as our rivals paid for thier product.

I don’t understand why you guys put up with it.

To VAN 19___ No, You don’t understand. That’s not my question. I’m just wondering what happen to the sign on icon (I guess you would call it.) I want to sign on so I can ask Colletti a question tomorrow. It was there but now it’s gone. Will it return? The piece that you can sign on.

///////

///////Error corrected

oh ok…

jason ungar…

now i know what ur saying…

i pretty much understand what you feel about ned right now…

i put up with it, because i can.

If you can’t handle it, then go root for another team, but don’t be sobbing about it, then jumping back on the bandwagon when we win again.

And if you don’t think we’ll win again, and we’re “done” and “finished”, and the entire Dodger franchise is going to rot in ****, then go watch volleyball or bass fishing or something more entertaining.

Or then again, just watch the games and then wait for that “i told you so moment” after we lose so you can post here about it, and when we win, just stay quiet about it as usual.

and let me say i hope to god i am 100 wrong. But I have been saying this stuff when we were 4 games up..not 4 back. This is not a reaction to our slump. I fully expect we will turn it around and on Sept 15 be right in the thick of it. My take is that with the resources (farm/payroll/mlb talent) we have we shouldn’t be in the thick of it, we should be blowing our rivals away

we already knew pierre, furcal were overpaid for what they provide.

we already knew that kent, nomar and gonzo were over the hill.

what else is new? Oh yah, all of a sudden we’re 4 games out, for the first time this season and it all becomes clear now. What a shocker.

casino i have been consistent since last year saying the same thing so whatever. I am not a badwagon guy, but i also dont have blinders on. If fans just sit there thinking this is fine, than this is what we will get. they make money either way

we already knew pierre, furcal were overpaid for what they provide.

we already knew that kent, nomar and gonzo were over the hill

now you know. a month ago u told me i was wrong in saying that.

Everyone seems to forget that the Dodgers were number one for a long time with this same team. The difference is the injuries and only one trade: Betemit for Proctor. How easy we forget.

now you know. a month ago u told me i was wrong in saying that.

Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | August 6, 2007 12:08 PM

If you can find a quote of me saying that, i’ll buy you the Dodger’s franchise and you can call up the AAA team and we can be the tampa devil rays for a couple years. You can fire NED and Grady, and the front office would be pulled from guy’s who post here, and the manager spot can be rotated around once a week.

but somehow, i doubt it.

But it’s not the same team…penny and lowe are not as fresh. Wolf is not in there, bills has to start now, tomko and hendu have to start now. our bully is not as fresh..Kent is hurt. And we have no pinch hit threat off the bench v righties.

Dodger Stadium has broken the Guiness Book of Records for most attendance by a franchise baseball team EVER. And this year it’s breaking the record again. Obviously we Dodger fans back the team and go to the games no matter what. Remember guys, it’s a game and it should be fun. The Dodgers have had their ups and downs. The team is a good team. We fans love it no matter what. True we want to win but life isn’t always that way. The players are human! They have their off days just as we do. It’ll turn around. Wait and see.

casino when i was ripping on pierre you were telling me how he makes stuff happen.

This is the same team that looked so good at times some of us had them ticketed for the playoffs and beyond. This is also the same team that looked so bad, we questioned how they could’ve been that team that looked so good. It is a long and bumpy ride full of ups and downs. The money these guys make doesn’t change suddenly when they win or lose. We went 6 games (1-5) without our hottest hitter and combined this is the worst we’ve hit all season. The D’Backs are playing far and away better than anybody expected. 3 games back in the loss column in August? It’s not even close to being over. It’s going to be up and down all year. Like Jungar said we’re going to be there in the end and may the best team win then. Not now, if we’re swept at home by Arizona in September, that’s when you can throw in the towel, we’ve swept them, now they’ve swept us, it’s 162 games we play and not 110.

Now, there are changes that need to be made, but if these guys would start hitting the lineup is irrelevant. It’s not one guy bringing us down, that’s actually impossible. To lose takes many different reasons and the blame goes to each and every member of that organization from McCourt all the way down to Ramon Martinez. This hitting slump they’re in cannot continue, the law of averages will balance out. When they do we’re going to be a force. But, until then we need to ride out this storm of unproductivity. Kent is coming back and while it’s impossible for him to continue his hot hitting, he may be just what we need to get things going. I believe in this team and I believe they can get through this. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy and there are a lot of tough games ahead of us. But, we’re much better than this and they know it. Now they have to show us.

Go Dodgers!

so me saying that pierre “makes stuff happen” implies that he’s not overpaid and directly refutes your assertion that pierre is overpaid??

when KEMP is up there with his home run swing and he hits a 3-run home runs, he makes stuff happen.

when Loney is at first playing great defense and getting hits, he makes stuff happen.

when Russel is behind the plate calling games and at bat driving in runs, he’s making stuff happen.

So i guess these guy’s making less than $400k are overpaid because they make stuff happen?

Dodger Stadium has broken the Guiness Book of Records for most attendance by a franchise baseball team EVER. And this year it’s breaking the record again. Obviously we Dodger fans back the team and go to the games no matter what. Remember guys, it’s a game and it should be fun. The Dodgers have had their ups and downs. The team is a good team. We fans love it no matter what. True we want to win but life isn’t always that way. The players are human! They have their off days just as we do. It’ll turn around. Wait and see.

Posted by: xoxrussell@gmail.com | August 6, 2007 12:17 PM

great point..but juan pierre’s on base percentage is so low. If it was over .340 imagine how many fans would still come to the game :)

The problem is we can’t even beat the team in our division…
i don’t care if we lose some games with other divisions…

but closing to september and we can’t even beat this division rivals we are going to be on a hole… actually we are right now becoz of the injuries…

alex,
u said we can’t blame anyone for this… but…

i can’t help but blame Mr. McCourt…

he is almost like jerry Buss…

he doesn’t even want to be involved in the team right now…

scully ask him sunday about the dodgers struggling and yet he keeps talking about Think Cure…

Think Cure is great… but if he wants to have a successful team he needs to put his mind on the team talk to ned… talk to grady and what the **** talk to the players just to make us see that the organization still cares about winning…

LOGAN WHITE IN 2008!!!

No Van 19

“To lose takes many different reasons and the blame goes to each and every member of that organization from McCourt all the way down to Ramon Martinez.”

I never said we can’t blame anyone for this, I said you blame everyone for this.

i thought it was just that Olmedo Saenz pinch hit at bat to blame for all this? ;)

Dodger Stadium has broken the Guiness Book of Records for most attendance by a franchise baseball team EVER. And this year it’s breaking the record again. Obviously we Dodger fans back the team and go to the games no matter what. Remember guys, it’s a game and it should be fun. The Dodgers have had their ups and downs. The team is a good team. We fans love it no matter what. True we want to win but life isn’t always that way. The players are human! They have their off days just as we do. It’ll turn around. Wait and see.

Posted by: xoxrussell@gmail.com | August 6, 2007 12:17 PM

the dodgers fans have been great even w/o a superstar type player on the field everytime they play…

just imagine how packed dodger stadium will be if we have A-Rod, or what the heck just a power bat…

and that’s the point..

dodger fans have been so passionate and positive about the team… yet they can’t put smile on our faces…

and right now while they continue losing some of them have now tears on their eyes…

my apologies alex… lol

to Van..point well taken. We love it when the Dodgers win. The Stadium has many sell out games even at the end of the season when it’s not so good. I think Dodger fans are like the Red Sox or Dallas Cowboy fans. We all love our teams unconditionally but we also love to win. It’s exhilarating when the team is awesome and disappointing when it’s struggling. We all feel the pain. I look at the stats also but I can appreciate a good play in the middle of some not so good. We all live for those plays. Those double plays are breathtaking. The game Saturday was one of those games that the Dodgers went from 8-1, to 8-7 in less than 3 innings. The 9th inning was so close. That was a good game although the Dodgers lost. None of us fans left mad that it wasn’t a good game and believe it or not, most stayed to the last minute. I’d like to see Ethier play more. He is underappreciated. Furcal is awesome defensively. He’s one of the best shortstops. Kent may be older but he’s also good defensively and offensively. You guys don’t seem to give credit to the older players. The Dodgers need a mixture of the experienced and the younger guys for the most efficiency. Some of the young ones seem to need a little more experience. For example Young. He just had his first major league hit during one of the games I went to last week. He’ll eventually be a good player in time. Nomar can still hit a homerun in a pinch. The 8-7 game, Nomar hit that huge homerun with Ethier following with another homerun. They can do it. All the teams are capable of doing well. For some reason it’s timing or gelling together. Look at the Yankees and their awesome players. They have their ups and downs too. Anyway, Go Dodger Blue.

i think grady saw that ethier is the only one who can hit the ball right now. so i’ll be suprise if he still gets alot of dayoffs…
ethier is ready… i think he wants to improve his september struggles…

i already wrote this lineup 2 times i hope someone in the organization can see it…

Furcal…SS

Martin… C

Loney… 1B

Kent… 2B

Nomar… 3B

Ethier… RF

Gonzo… LF

Kemp… CF

i think gonzo will understand why he was hitting 7th… he’s struggling and old… and he is a much better fit hitter to protect Ethier in the lineup…

this lineup i think will produce at least 3 runs a game…

i don’t care about JP anymore…

last sunday when im watching the game… he looks so tired and old…

i don’t know, but i just can see stress on his face… and he just can’t seem to concentrate on what he is doing…

*5 runs a game, i mean not 3…*

Van…your batting order is right on.

Van..I think that they’re paying JP too much money to let him just sit. He’s actually not old, he’s only 29. He may just seem tired and old.

yeah i know his age…lol
what i exactly mean with that is he looks old becoz of stress…

Jeff Kent with his age looks so fresh and strong…

well it’s time to shake things up a bit…

all i wanted to say is that should be the primary lineup and JP would be the platoon at CF…

coz right now the theory of grady’s lineup is not working…

we can’t bat Furcal 2nd coz if he hits the ball in the ground it would be a sure double play coz of his bad ankle..

just the fact that JP the toughest to strike out has 4 strike outs in the arizona series…

Look guys…The Dodger line up is very suspect now..Poor Russell shouldn’t be trotted out there everyday, even though I love him..You’re wearing him down..I doubt another manager would do that to him..other than Grady( we will not win anything with him at the helm!)…and the other guys, except for Kent and Ethier are not great…Pierre will be a burden for another 4 years…a stupid expensive mistake…along with Schmidt, Wolf, and Tomko…I’m still upset about Betemit..Don’t you think he would have been better at 3rd yesterday than Nomar who is 0-16 off Webb?..The management of the Dodgers is not making sense now..I’m glad they kept the kids, but they keep discarding the wrong players…Betemit, Anderson and a bunch of others from the last 2 years. And they didn’t even do anything little at the trade deadline..like the Dbacks..would Kim have helped our rotation more than the other guys we have?…and San Diego got some decent guys cheap…Hairston, Rob Mc, and Ensberg…none are the greatest but they give the team a lift…Ned gave this team no lift…and it looks like it…1 and 5 on a homestand is comppletely unacceptable ever…especially in your own division….I’m not saying they can’t win a little more, but they don’t have a strong enough team to go against the really good teams..Dbacks put us to shame..If I were a pitcher, I would love to pitch against the Dodgers..Except for Kent, no threats to speak of…
I’m not getting off of the Dodgers because they’re losing, but like the other guy on here said, I’ve been telling Bob Harvey on Dodger talk that the Dodgers lost this season in the off season…they cannont recover and it hurts to say that.

The Rockies will finish ahead of us…and that’s awful..much better lineup, better defense, and pitching is pretty good…I wish this wasn’t true, but it is…and I worry about next year because we still have Pierre…who , other than the Giants wanted Pierre?..NO ONE with a brain.

And we have 4 games with the Rockies in Sept…that should be fun.!!!

i don’t think we can entirely blame ned for not doing much at the deadline. If you disagree with the trade he made, understandable. But the market was *so* bad this year, there was no Maddux to be had, nor a any real impact bat out there that wouldn’t have cost us a ton. I mean, from reports Blaton would have cost us 5 prospects, and probably 5 of our best. And he’s no ace. I don’t think there was much we could do because the market was poor, the same way that sometimes the FA agent market was poor, so you end up signing guys like pierre b/c theres no one else out there (no offense to pierre fans).

And the Dbacks play the Pirates at home this week…more good news.!!!

The problem with the Ds is management. Remember when they thought Nomar was to fragile to play 3rd. They keep players they should get rid of and get rid of players they should keep. I was a Ned fan , but I’ve completely lost my faith in him. He hasn’t reacted properly to any of the Ds needs. He’s made too many bad moves and not enough good ones. This team will win again (I think) but I doubt they can make the playoffs . They’re fighting an up hill battle against Ned and Grittle.

drpdedblnd,
i know that kent is the only one that the pitchers should fear in our lineup…

but are u saying that there is someone in the dbacks or the padres lineup that our pitchers or some other division pitchers fear…

the only threat in our division is Bonds,Kent and Holliday…

u can’t fear Gonzales of the padres… he has power but he swings alot of pitches…

i know all those teams hit more HR than ours… but the dodgers hit for average…

so there is no point saying that pitchers don’t fear the players in our organization coz if you would compare the dodgers to others in our division u’ll see that we are a much better team…

dodgers just can’t execute right now…

they are struggling…

but we are far more better team than the teams in our division…

i echo Messagebear’s thoughts on the subject…

LOGAN WHITE IN 2008!!!

and who ever said the dodgers lost this season in the offseason…i couldn’t have said it any better myself.

jspelk….We just didn’t need to sign Pierre..If we had no other choices, we should have signed Lofton for at least one more year..much better on base guy…hits better and can still run…then wait til next year for a center fielder.Lofton would have been a much better choice.If I can see this, why can’t management…I’m beginning to think they are not competent…Get rid of Grady or we never win…and pray Ned does something better next year..or get rid of him!!!lol…There is no guidance from the manager on the field…worse defense I remember as a Dfan…and the team has the same life Grady has..NONE.
Have any of you listened to Grady on the post game show on Dodgers Live?..He’s a joke..It’s like having a Southern Jim Tracy..beginning to think Tracy was better..lol

I want a mangager like a Willy Randolph type…someone with a clue!

did someone read alyssa milano’s blog?

i know he didn’t say it straight up but if u all read it u will realize that she feels what we feel about grady putting those lineup jokes… putting saenz in cleanup… heheheh…

she really is passionate about this team… and i love it…

i hope she won’t give up with the dodgers…

Yes I realize there was no need to sign pierre and I never would have done it, but Im trying to see the reasoning behind it. Ned felt like he need to to have *establised* outfielders and did not feel that anyone we had could play CF.
Here’s another problem with the Big bat for this lineup. Even if we had gotten some big bat…who woud protect him? I mean I guess Kent but he’s not really at that level anymore. I could see any big bat in our lineup behing pitched around every single time like they do with B*nds… so their lineup doesn’t score many runs because there’s only one real threat. In a way its better to have what we have with moderate threats throughout the lineup. Still, I agree that pierre was exactly the opposite of what this team needed.

drpdedblnd,
the only reason i think the dodgers didn’t give lofton a 2nd chance is becoz they don’t think that ethier and kemp can contribute with the team…

can’t u see ned is playing safe… w/c is wrong in my opinion…

he signed JP so he can have a player who he thinks can hit above 300…

he thinks that if either kemp or ethier struggles he can use one of them in a trade for a power bat…

but he is wrong coz kemp and ethier are both contributing… and that is his problem from playing safe game… he can’t trade both ethier and kemp now coz right now ned can see how much contribution or how big the contribution that both of this 2 can give with our team…

this 2 can put damage on other teams…

i mean try to combine the talent of kemp and ethier u have a power bat who can also hit for average in kemp and u have a decent power bat can hit 20 HR a year and a sure hitter who can hit above 300 consistently every year…

it ***** if one of them go…

coz if u would look at it very carefully our corner OF is complete…

the only problem is CF… i just hope we can get a remedy for this… coz next year we can get jones or hunter to play center…

i don’t know how to get rid of JP… i like him… he is exciting when he is on his game… but he needs to go…

coz he doesn’t fit with the dodgers…

I think the one thing that kills me on the whole JP issues is that every team goes first to third on every ball hit to him. It doesn’t matter who is on first they are going full speed without a thought of stopping. Livian did it on Saturday and that is just wrong.

i think there were also some (unconfirmed) reports that Lofton would not return because of issues with Penny–remember they fought earlier in the year. It could be nothing but it could have been a factor. The reports were also that ned was planning on moving either Ethier or Drew to CF and sign a power LF. We know what happened with Drew. So its not like pierre was his first choice, in fact im sure it was one of his last. He knew we needed power. Again, Im the last person to defend him but the facts are what they are.

More on 1st to 3rd w/JP:

Anyone notice the guy scoring from 2nd on Saturday on a HARD line drive to CF? Noone on the Dodgers could have scored from 2nd on that hit, but with JP in CF, even your grandma can waltz in without a throw. What is up with that? I’m 39 and never played pro ball, but I can throw it home from shallow center at least. Disgusting!

Well, i see there is alot of JP hating going on today and I think it’s part of the frustration that we are feeling with all the losing lately. We can talk all we want about Tori Hunter and Andruw Jones and blah, blah, blah!!! but the bottom line is, JP with that contract is not going anywhere and we’re stuck with him. The Dodgers need to find a way to win with who they have now and finding the right combination that will be productive. Unfortunately if that combination means sitting JP, it’s not gonna happen with Grady. Grady seems like a terrific guy and a great human being, but nobody will ever win with Little at the helm. As for JP, well we’ve got him for 2 more years so grin and bear it…..PS, he’ll have Schmidt to keep him company.

The Pierre signing is a philosophical thing. Some people think 190 hits, 100 runs and 50sb makes you good.

Others think that leading baseball in outs made, while not providing the team with any power is a bad thing.

I don’t know if my point is clear.

Jp on his own= no problem.

JP when we already have a leadoff man. =redundant and a waste of resources.

Jp when heading into the year knowin we lack power at all 4 corners (lf, rf, 1b, 3b)=poor offense.

We are pretty much station to station for the middle 3 Kent, Nomar and Gonzo. But if they were on any other team they would be taking 2 bags on JP every time. Not that it would increase his arm strenth but do you notice on every ball hit to him on the ground he fields it between his legs? With runners moving it is hard to come up throwing from this position. I have yet to see him take a grounder on the side and come up throwing. It seems like he knows there is no chance so why make it look even worse?

Kiper…We have JP for 4 more years.and you’re right..no one is going to take on his contract…..His arm is a killer..every team knows they can run on him..Even if JP was the only center fielder I would not have signed him for that amount of $$$ and years..
especially with Gonzo in left field..Also, why couldn’t Ned see that JP had a terrible OBP…every expert and novice knew this…HE JUST DOESN’T GET ON BASE ENOUGH…If he did it would be fine, but you can’t depend on him…and Furcal with his ankle has not been as good..so our 1,2 guys are not as productive as last year..Doesn’t anybody think the Rockies have a much better lineup than we do?..Holliday, Atkins, Hawpe, Helton, etc…Spillborgh, Tulowitzki….they can flat out hit.

jspelk
i don’t believe that it is because the lofton and penny situation…

i would believe it if lofton is the catcher… but lofton is CF… there is no connection there… so whatever the issue is it wont affect both of them…

so i would stick with my speculation coz when i actually try to put some thoughts and reasoning why ned sign JP it made sense to me that they are just playing safe…

I wish baseball had a simlar non guaranteed contract deal like the NFL.

I wonder what Grady’s thinking when we are screaming at the TV to yank the pitcher or pinch hit for Martinez?

Probably something like this:

“I wonder what inning it is…”?

The fact that we are scheduled to face 12 consecutive Right-Handed Starting Pitchers might have a lot to do with Ethier playing everyday over the next two weeks as well…

if JP is with us for 4 more years it puzzles me where to put the power bat…
they say LaRoche at 3rd… abreu at 2nd… loney at 1st… furcal at SS…

OF…

JP…CF

Kemp… RF

i don’t know if they really want ethier coz right now it doesn’t look like it… they keep making ethier sit on the bench…

so does that mean ethier is gone and a power bat in LF…?

i wouldn’t want ethier to go…

coz the OF is set with the exception of JP…

just like what i said…

the combination of talent ethier and kemp has is a good mix…

Hey the Pirates took on Matt Morris’ contract and even gave the Giants a nice prospect. Maybe we should be talking to them about a guy who gets 200 hits a year?

If Little knew how to make a line up we would have at least 10 more wins right now. Anyone else that watches every game agrre or disagree.

2 things that would make us alot better right now if we had won the offseason and not lost it.

(not counting major deals)

1. Ted Lilly instead of Randy Wolf

12-5 119k 39 walks 1.11 whip 145IP (Lilly)

9-6 94k 40walks 1.45whip 101IP (wolf)

Gary Matthews jr vs Pierre

(GM is a gold glover, strong thrower and Pierre isnt)

.270/.335/.774ops 13hr 60rbi 59runs 12sb GM

.277/.314/.645ops 0hr 25rbi 66runs 44 sb

how do 13 more HR sound? or 45 more rbi? Do steals matter? to some of you I guess, to me, not really but thats a philophical thing.Pierre is exciting because if he wasn’t he would be out of baseball with this production. He HAS to steal.

How does 3 more wins and 45 more IP sound right about now.

Sure this is second guessing, but this just shows we lost it in the offseason.

Jungar…I said that all along…Lilly and Matthews..he’s a great cf and a switch hitter..and YES we lost big time in the off season…Funny, most of the baseball experts said so at the time…Now that this last off season is over, we have to worry about the next one..Has Ned learned anything?
Please let go of Grady…

gary matthews also likes that growth hormone as well. JP could use some of that ;)

jungar,
the lilly and wolf thing dont make sense to me…

coz try to imagine if wolf is pitching behind a high octained offense in cubs…

if wolf is healthy he will be a much better choice than lilly…

wolf might have 14 wins already if he is just healthy…

I think Matthews vs. Pierre is the biggest negative for us.

Not sure the Dodgers would have spent the money on both Schmidt and Lilly.

Wolf is a one year deal with a buyout, cannot compare his deal to Lilly’s money!

You can argue Lilly over Schmidt, but I did not read or hear anyone advocating Lilly in November/December…

jungar,
the lilly and wolf thing dont make sense to me…

coz try to imagine if wolf is pitching behind a high octained offense in cubs… he must have won 16 games to the cubs…

if wolf is healthy he will be a much better choice than lilly…

wolf might have 14 wins already if he is just healthy…

matthews would be nice in our outfield right now, no doubt about it.

I think what turned NED off was that he was asking for a whole lot more money than what he eventually signed for with the Angels. So apparently, matthews gave the Angels a home team discount. That is what he said in an interview link that was posted here a couple weeks ago.

Not so much that Matthews gave the Angels a home team discount because he had no previous relationship with the Angels…

Rather he was trying to drive up the price between the Dodgers and Angels, but once Pierre signed with us, and Roberts with the Giants, Matthews lost his leverage and took what he could get…

Anybody understand batting the pitcher eighth in the lineup? LaRussa has done it three games in a row with the Cards.

So having Jeff Kent out for 1 week and using Ramon Martinez at 2nd is better than having Kent out for 2 weeks and using Chin-Lung Hu?

Van the cubs have scored 6 more runs then us. Dodger stadium is a much better pithers park that Wrigley.

Wolf isn’t healhy being the point. He hasn’t thrown 200 innings since 2003.

I say we just tear the whole thing down, Depo-style, while keeping all the top kids. Add some top flight free agents to the young core and we’ve got a contender.

Nomar, Furcal, Kent, Wolf, Martinez, Saenz, Hernandez, Lowe, Saito, Gonzalez, etc. all will be gone no later than next year…

We have no choice but to build from the ground up…

Exactly, what is there to tear down? Most of the veterans are gone after 2008 anyway. It’s Ethier, Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Martin who will man LF, RF, 1B, 3B, C for years. Everything else is up for grabs. SS, 2B and pitching is where we can try to upgrade after 2008. I truthfully do not see Hu or Abreu in those positions in 2009. CF is Pierre’s for probably another two seasons and if he hasn’t caught on here by then, he’ll probably be gone. We’re still in that rebuilding while competing era, so we’re definitely a work in progress.

Along with those mentioned above, Colletti should be GONE along with Little. Then we will have a chance to get it built right. I don’t know whether LOGAN WHITE has the necessary experience to be a GM, but I would rather take a chance on him and his knowledge of baseball talent than draft another second in charge from someplace like the Giants.

I remember from last year’s hot stove that Lily *was* one of the pitchers we were pursuing (although who know’s how seriously). Clearly he would have turned out better than schmidt or wolf at this point but that’s hindsight. Also one has to remember the fact that there were FA’s that we did pursue who did not want to play here… I don’t think this was a failure on our GM’s part, if a player wants to be in a certain area of the country…so be it. The FA market last year for pitchers was ridiculous and for hitters it will be this year too. We were smart to hold on to everything we have because baseball talent is becoming very diluted. I hope we never get rid of the scouts/talent evaluators who have gotten us this current group of kids. In a few years they we will see they are even more valuable to us then they are now.

^^ Carlos Lee was one of those players who did not want to play on the west coast right?

My ideal 2008 OF will include a top notch FA, plus Kemp & Ethier. I also want Nomar’s role reduced and Kent’s option not to trigger. I also want the rotation to build mostly from within.

None of the highly priced outfielders wanted to come here which left three options (four if you want to count Lofton) who’s 40 and can only rely on for about 120 games. Although, he’s had a fantastic season, but how could you know? Matthews Jr., Dave Roberts and Juan Pierre. If we failed to acquire one of those three, Kemp was not ready, still isn’t, Jason Repko would have been our starting center fielder who ended up getting injured. Pierre, while unspectacular as he may be, except when he’s on base, plays every day and plays the best his tiny body allows him. I don’t hate Pierre, he was probably not the greatest fit for this team, but look at the options. There were few…and you cannot assume Jones or Hunter would’ve signed here after this season. What would you have done? Probably no better.

I have always thought the the Dodgers have lacked a fiery manager since Tommy left. I would love to see them get someone with energy. Kevin Kennedy has aslways been a thought.

Alex, I agree but would have rather had someone with a short term contact. Rather then be stuck with JP for 5 yrs.

we could have had BONDS for a year in CF..his on base percentage this year is .493 while pierre’s is only .314.

sure his speed is lacking to play CF, but his on base percentage is .493!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed, the length of the deal has always been an issue, but that’s what it took to make the deal. He overpaid to steal Furcal from the Cubs and he overpaid to steal Pierre from the Giants. It happens, it’s not my money (technically) all I care about is production once you have the uniform on. If you produce I could care less what you make.

yeah carlos lee and soriano were two among those who did not want to play out here. It seems like pitchers want to come here because of the bigger parks in the nl west and power hitters don’t. Go figure.
Pods playing embarrassing baseball, losing 10-3 to the cards.

Kenny Lofton.

sure he didn’t play everyday but now we are stuck with a center fielder most of us wish DIDN’T PLAY EVERYDAY.

If u really belive guys wont come west then your drinking the cool aid. We did not offer Lee the same deal he got from Houston (2 yrs less we offered) and same with Soriano (not even in the ballpark). I for one am glad, but let’s not pretend that they wouldn’t have come if we paid them more. That’s Coletti’s PR spin. Instead of going after one major guy he felt it best to spread the money out between Nomar, Pierre, Gonzo, Wolf, Schmidt.

Drew opted out and Ned panicked and signed Nomar. Matthews signed with the angels and Ned panicked and took Pierre.

I don’t want my GM panacking, I want him to have a specifc plan.

I can also care less what you make as long as you produce. But at some point its the best way to anaylze the management team, not the players. To give JP a 50 million contract just sorta shows what he values in a player. I just happen not to agree.

I have said this like 20 times….I don’t support the war in Iraq but I support the troops and what we stand for. I don’t support our current management team, but I support the players out there. All of them.

If u really belive guys wont come west then your drinking the cool aid. We did not offer Lee the same deal he got from Houston (2 yrs less we offered) and same with Soriano (not even in the ballpark). I for one am glad, but let’s not pretend that they wouldn’t have come if we paid them more. That’s Coletti’s PR spin. Instead of going after one major guy he felt it best to spread the money out between Nomar, Pierre, Gonzo, Wolf, Schmidt.

Drew opted out and Ned panicked and signed Nomar. Matthews signed with the angels and Ned panicked and took Pierre.

I don’t want my GM panacking, I want him to have a specifc plan.

I can also care less what you make as long as you produce. But at some point its the best way to anaylze the management team, not the players. To give JP a 50 million contract just sorta shows what he values in a player. I just happen not to agree.

I have said this like 20 times….I don’t support the war in Iraq but I support the troops and what we stand for. I don’t support our current management team, but I support the players out there. All of them.

22 times including the double post. lol sorry bout that. dont know what happened.

I am currently in Vegas. Dodgers are still 8-1 odds at winning the WS. The Braves are 18-1 and the Padres and Dbacks are 10-1. Mets are NL best at 4-1

Im not drinking the kool-aid.. i guess we’ll never know what was offered and what wasn’t. I would have liked Carlos Lee although defensively he leaves something to be desired. I also would have liked to see Drew stay (I know he’s not having a good year but whatever, he’s still better than pierre). Let me be clear, I am not Ned fan by any means. At all. I was just pointing out that the FA was weak last year, as was the trade market this year.

agree and agree

I was just pointing out that the FA was weak last year, as was the trade market this year.

CLAYTON KERSHAW PROMOTED TO DOUBLE-A JACKSONVILLE.

http://tinyurl.com/ysbgwe

I have not read all of this thread (been too depressed after the weekend), but I see it’s gotten to its usual place–bashing Ned and Grady, and the argument over whether Ned is better than DePo (most people say yes, even as they bash Ned).

Anyway, I have to give Ned and Grady credit. Credit is certainly due to Logan White, who drafted the young guys, but I won’t count Ned out for not trading them. There is almost no one who has left LA who I find myself saying “darn, it’s too bad we don’t have him anymore” (one exception–Greg Maddux–but given the option of signing Maddux or Schmidt, Schmidt probably still made more sense than Maddux at the time). What was DePo’s problem? Sabermetrics? No. DePo took a 2004 team, made a couple of pre-season moves that made it better, and then made mid-season moves that by all appearances made it worse. Compare to tomorrow’s line-up (with Kent in): 1-8, there is not an easy out (sure, someone might be slumping, but they are all .280 or better hitters). It just was not the case with DePo, and when you trade away key components like LoDuca, where is the logic? Moneyball is smart playing, but you don’t need only the small payroll here, and I think DePo never got that. Ned, I think, gets that. You can complain about the Pierre signing (is it really THAT bad? Yes, there were other options we could have gotten, and we probably overpaid, but it’s not THAT bad). But, by the same token, he’s been working on keeping the young core of the team, and that will pay dividends.

As for Grady, he’s never managed anything but a winner, and I don’t think that’s an accident. Is his line-up confusing sometimes? Yes. But he seems to relate, gets everyone involved, and makes mostly decent moves. His worst criticism is leaving in pitchers too long, but it’s a rare manager that does not get that, from time-to-time. Anyway, I think he should be there for a while, but if we ever replace him, I think that there are three former Dodgers we should look to–in order of least to most likely: Scioscia, who may be the best manager in the game, but I think will spend the rest of his career in Anaheim. Too bad for us, and another huge blunder of the Fox era, but there it is. Orel Hershiser–who does not have any managerial experience, and is now a commentator rather than a coach. But I think the guy knows the game, but I imagine he is more likely to stay in the booth. Finally, the most likely candidate is the current Arizona Bench Coach. He has experience as Bench Coach on two different teams (Detroit and Arizona), has coached in the NL West, and will eventually get an offer because Melvin is likely to stay for a number of years. He brings a fire and intensity that is almost unparalleled, and he has won 2 world championships on only the force of his own will. Plus, he’s responsible for the single-greatest moment since the team moved to LA (second, perhaps, in franchise history only to finally winning the World Series in 1955). If we ever were to replace Grady, I think we should look to the Arizona Bench Coach–Kirk Gibson.

That being said, I still support Grady. We’re in the dumps now, but we came out of a much worse mess last year, and I think we have all the pieces we need. If had gone 6-40 with runners in scoring position (rather than 3-40), we might have swept the Diamondbacks. Think about that–we were basically three hits (or the difference of .075 and .150) from having a 2 game lead in the NL West. It absolutely stinks to be losing like this, but we’re far from out of it.

the going after ted lilly thing didnt just appear out of thin air. he is from torrance so im positive he would have had no qualms coming here if the price was right. ned rolled the dice and went after wolf hoping he was ok and he wasnt. hindsight is always 20/20 but you have to take injuries into consideration. i mean schmidt was no iron man either. these things didnt just surface this year. coming into the season our offseason grade would have been a cplus. right now ned’s offseason moves arent even passable. he gets a big fat red F if im grading papers.

Posted by: leekfink@yahoo.com | August 6, 2007 07:36 PM

DePo took a 2004 team, made a couple of pre-season moves that made it better, and then made mid-season moves that by all appearances made it worse. Compare to tomorrow’s line-up (with Kent in): 1-8, there is not an easy out (sure, someone might be slumping, but they are all .280 or better hitters). It just was not the case with DePo, and when you trade away key components like LoDuca, where is the logic? Moneyball is smart playing, but you don’t need only the small payroll here, and I think DePo never got that. Ned, I think, gets that.

______________________________

Leekfink, a few things wrong with your post.

1)You say Depo’s 04 mid-season moves made things worse. How can you claim netting Brad Penny, our current ace, and making room for Martin made things worse.

2)You say Depo didn’t understand that he didn’t need to have a small payroll in LA. How does that make any sense?

What Depo did during his 2 years is trim the payroll by getting rid of dead weight. You don’t think he would’ve spent some of that extra capital had he not been fired? In fact, I’m 99% certain he would have used the extra money more wisely than Ned has. Depo GAVE Ned the financial flexibility to “make it rain” on Tomko, Schmidt, Pierre, and Nomar.

3) Finally, your comment about not having easy outs in the line-up is laughable. I mean have you been watching this team play the past few days.

“You can complain about the Pierre signing (is it really THAT bad? Yes, there were other options we could have gotten, and we probably overpaid, but it’s not THAT bad).”

POSTED BY Leekfink

Um… average of 9 million a year for a declining OBP currently at .314. You really have to understand how much damage an OBP that low does to a team. Also, Pierre’s contract is back-loaded. This means as Pierre continues to decline, he’ll become more and more expensive. I believe he’ll make about 12 million in the last year of the contract. He’s had about a .325 OBP the last 3 years counting this year… that is bad news. I’ll won’t mention the rest of why he is no good because i’ll just be repeating myself even more…

that was inaccurate about Pierre’s contract… 07:$7.5M, 08:$8M, 09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M. 5 years 44 million.

Manny, I believe he meant DePo made the 2004 club worse, which he did. He took a surging first place club that was coming together and made a deal that now looks good, but at the time demoralized the team so much that it had to limp into the playoffs, some of that was due to Penny’s freak nerve injury, but aside from Beltre’s heroics in games down the stretch and Finley’s HR, we lose that division to the Giants. In the long-term the deal has worked out for us, but at that moment in time, it completely changed the team when it didn’t need changes. A lot of people wonder to this day what that 2004 team would have done before the Lo Duca/Penny deal. With that said, for this organization in the long-term it was the right decision. But, in 2004, no it was not.

Also, he said with Kent in the lineup. The past few days he hasn’t been and well it hasn’t been pretty.

I disagree about that alex. The 2004 club would have had a better chance in the post season had Brad Penny stayed healthy. DePo wasn’t just thinking about the longterm, he was thinking about adding a power arm for the playoffs. Power arms are huge in the playoffs; Randy J, Schill, Penny beating the Yanks twice in the 2003 WS. Also you say that if it wasn’t for Steve Finley’s homer we would have been beaten by the Giants? well who traded for Finley? Perhaps if we would have missed the playoffs that year you’d have a better case against DePo’s move affecting us negatively that year.

Another thing i take offense to is ppl like Bill Plashcke trying to blame Eric Gagne’s injury on trading Mota away. We had Braz come in that year and set up Gagne, and he did a great job for the rest of the year. Gagne wasn’t hurt till spring training next year.

Alex, I’m not too sure what to make of your comments about the 04 trade. I myself think it was a great deal, not just now but, even at the time it was made. We lost to the Cards primarily because of weak pitching. Had Penny been healthy things might have turned out a lot different. You’d be amazed what a playoff series victory can do to rejuvenate a so-called “demoralized” squad.

Also,even with Kent in the line-up, its not like we’re fielding murders’ row out there, which is what leekfink seemed to imply.

By the way, Alex, are you Leekfink’s PR guy?

I just found out that we’re gonna have to spend 1 million dollars to NOT have Bret Tomko pitch for us next year. That will be money well spent I say.

good for Bret, more money for him and his family to share.

Dodgers before the trade in ’04: .588

After the trade (excluding game 162, which was a throwaway): .567

Yeah, a lot of limping went on after that trade.

And if you’re going to assert that the ’04 team didn’t need Penny, then you must have forgot that the likes of Kaz Ishii, Edwin Jackson and Elmer Dessens were starting games down the stretch. Finley more than offset whatever offense was supposedly lost by Loduca (who was vastly overrated btw).

I like how the disclaimer of “Beltre’s heroics and Finley’s HR” is thrown in, but nothing is said about last year’s 4-HR game or Nomaaaah’s 2-run HR vs. Colorado on FA day. That’s because when Colletti is in charge, it’s skill and when Depo was in charge, they won in spite of him. Right?

But hey, why be objective when it would only serve to actually make you think.

In so far as saying Gagne was hurt by Mota’s trade, that as just Plaschke talking out of his posterior per usual. Of course, with many fans unable to think for themselves and only looking to regurgitate the Plaschkes and Vic the Brick’s of the world, it isn’t too surprising.

Gagne’s workload in ’04 was exactly the same as in ’03 and ’02. His numbers after the 3 inning game at San Diego were no better or worse than before it.

Did I once mention Finley’s trade as a negative? I think Finley’s trade was a great move by DePo. And probably the move that saved his bacon. Because of Finley’s dramatic HR, he sent us to the postseason. You seem to think I have some sort of motive, I am not a DePo hater, I’m just calling it like I lived it. We thrived early on after the trade, but struggled really badly down the stretch in September and as a team we gutted it out (due to huge walkoff victories against Colorado) and won the division with that huge 7 run ninth capped by the Finley granny and if Penny were healthy in October who knows what happens. DePo’s vision was hurt by Penny’s injury which made the trade look awful at the time. There were a lot of what ifs during that season…but we’ll always have Lima’s CG shutout.

I was at Lima-time’s shutout!

Leefink: The Pierre signing is horrible beyond words. Paying $9 mil to someone whose .645 OPS is the 4th worst among NL players who qualify is unacceptable. Even Alfredo Amaezaga is at .700. On top of that, he gets the 2nd most PAs for this team. And you wonder why the offense is struggling.

Let me guess: Pierre gets a lot of hits and steals a lot of bases. If you walk less than 40 times a year and get 750 PAs, you better get at least 200 hits. And for every time you see an exciting stolen base for Pierre, think about the 10 extra bases opposing baserunners take on him because his arm is so terrible.

We’re not talking about this season, you want to talk about last season, we can do that as well. There’s the 6-0 lead we blew in Chicago in September, not to mention the Baez games last season where we had 5 run leads in S.F and S.D and blew both. The 4 HR game and Nomar’s walk-off was an amazing moment in the history of the Dodgers. It was crucial in us making the playoffs. As were Beltre’s heroics and Finley’s HR. There are a ton of what ifs every single game. My point is we did have to struggle down the stretch in 04 and we will never know what would have been in October that season in 04. The same result may of happened but we will never know that. Stop making it out to be like I’m attacking DePo, when I actually am trying to have a civil discussion without saying things like, “But hey, why be objective when it would only serve to actually make you think.”

Alex: The team was also 40-37 on July 2nd. The team had struggled at many other points in the season. Pitching was an obvious need. The trade really had no effect on the team.

Alex: How did the Dodgers “struggle” down the stretch in 04? I just showed you their performance was nearly identical pre-trade and post-trade.

Sorry, but my frustration stems from the appearance that you haven’t really looked at the trade objectively.

And then proceeded to win 17 of 19 and 19 of 24 before the trade, “but hey, why be objective when it would only serve to actually make you think”. The trade had no affect on the team is a ludicrous statement. Replacing Lo Duca’s glove behind the plate and giving David Ross/Brent Mayne the job was in itself a huge change. You also think it was a coincidence things started to come together when Russell Martin became our catcher? You think with Navarro behind the plate the exact same results would’ve happened last season for our pitching?

I will never argue the trade was a bad one for this club. It led to our ace and eventually Martin becoming our captain. But, for those final two months, it completely changed the team.

This isn’t just today, but a cumulation of comments/posts that leads me to believe that the facade of the internet makes some of you believe you can carry yourself however you want when speaking with others. There’s a thing called respect, and if you want your opinions to be heard and to be respected, it’s always best to give that same respect towards others.

Some of you guy’s are really rude and get defensive with your posts. I don’t see the point in trying to make snide comments and trying to degrade other posters who may or may not share the same opinions with you. It’s a fact of life, someone will disagree with your opinion, live with it.

However, that doesn’t make your opinion wrong and it doesn’t make it right, but to carry yourself in a defensive manner and to talk “smack” and conduct personal attacks against other posters is juvenile and should not be tolerated on this blog. This isn’t 7th grade.

Sometimes i wish there was a moderator on this site that could take appropriate action.

the truth is we’ll never really know how good a GM DePo would have been because he was only given 18 months to do the job. McCourt buckled under media (Plaschke) pressure, and fired DePo to quickly. Now we’re stuck with Ned “goober” Coletti, and signings like Juan Pierre, Jason Schmidt, and the likes.

In June, the Dodgers had a 4.63 ERA. In April, they had a 4.41 ERA. In August, they had a 3.44 ERA compared to 3.43 in July. The impact of Loduca on the pitchers appears to be nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

Oh, and Navarro was the catcher in April and part of May and the Dodger staff had a 3.85 ERA in April and a 4.07 ERA in May. In June and July with Maritn behind the plate: 5.08 and 4.85. So yeah, things really “came together” when Martin took over.

Casino, you’re joking right?

You’re one of the biggest instigators on here…

LOL!!!

And finally to answer your question about how did we struggle down the stretch:

On September 11th, 2004 we were 6 games up with 21 games left.

On September 22nd, 2004 we were only a half game up with 11 games left.

I’ll never forget being on a retreat during a crucial three game series in San Francisco and listening on my tiny radio to Gagne saving a huge game that put us 2 1/2 games up. I also confused Beltre’s heroics for another time during the season, as we had three walkoff victories from Bradley, Finley and Ross in a four game series against Colorado. All who were playing because of DePo, which leads us to Finley’s grand slam against S.F.

Casino: I’m really not looking for your respect or anyone else’s. Respect comes from being able to present your points and provide facts. You can’t just say random things and expect everyone to just fall in line.

And it really has nothing to do with the internet. You can email me and tell me when you’re at a game and I’ll be more than willing to discuss the Dodgers. Just make sure you are armed with data and facts and not just sweeping unsubstantiated generalizations.

In so far as moderation being needed, show me where I have called someone a name, used profanity or anything of the sort. If a moderator is needed because people are getting called on things they say that they can’t back off, then you should really just hang out at the dodgers.com forum.

Alex: That had more to do with the Giants going 18-10 down the stretch than the Dodgers “struggling”.

Please show me how going from a .588 winning percentage to a .567 winning percentage is “struggling”

10-11 in your final 21 games isn’t struggling in the stretch run of a pennant race? Also, before Max comes on here and says “Ladies”
in September/October 2004 their ERA was 4.86, the worst all year long. With Lo Duca at the helm in 2003, our September ERA was 3.63.

Manny, i’m not joking, but thanks for showing up on cue just to adress me again. And by the way, if you think im an “instigator”, maybe you should realize that my opinions are different than yours, and that’s why you feel to need to “challenge” me or anyone else with varying posts. That’s where the “instigation” comes from, not from me calling you names or insulting you personally. :)

sangab..i don’t wish to discuss the dodger’s with you, especially in person. For now, i’ll just enjoy your posts here on the internet backed with the lovely stats and facts. Respect comes from knowing that others may view things differently than you. For now, all you seem to want to do is bring up stats and facts. Can you disprove me if i said, for instance, “i think furcal was a good signing”? You can bring up all the stats you want, but if i feel that furcal was a good signing, your stats do no good in changing my opinion.

That’s why it’s called “my opinion”, and your snide comments towards others, like ALEX, where he was stating his opinion and asking him whether he was “leefkink’s PR” just because they shared the same vieews towards things is juvenile. Surely, you could have shown him facts/data/statistics to sway his opinion instead without such a comment.

Really? That’s the best you have in response?

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the ERA in September/October had more to do with Edwin Jackson, Kaz Ishii and Elmer Dessens starting games, hence the need for a frontline starting pitcher, hence the trade for Brad Penny???

I love it when my points are made for me.

Catcher ERA is a product of the actual pitchers rather than the catcher and as such, is useless and pointless to point to when trying to show Loduca’s “value”. The reason I used it was to show how useless it really was. It didn’t matter who was behind the plate, the pitching staff was a disaster.

I actually didn’t say the leefink PR comment. Make sure you have something correct before trying to accuse me of that. That’s called respect also.

Basically, what you are saying is you don’t want to back up your opinion. You just want to randomly spew things and only hear from those that agree with you. That’s not a discussion. You can do that with a parrot or a mirror.

My intention wasn’t to hijack this board. If you 2 or anyone else want to take this up with me, email me and we’ll discuss it there.

no thanks

i stand correct sang..the PR guy comment was not yours, i misquoted you. my apologies

corrected*

I’m done playing tennis for the night, good discussion, you don’t want useless and pointless statistics thrown at you, don’t use them to begin with, you brought up ERA by the month to disprove my opinion that Lo Duca leaving caused problems with the team, including the pitching. I simply stated it as my opinion, which I believe to be true. With Lo Duca behind the plate instead of Ross/Mayne, we’re a completely different team. We’ll never know if that means it would’ve been different good or different bad, but definitely different. I believe it took away a piece of the team you could never get back and that no number could ever be found to disprove. That’s my point all the numbers in the world couldn’t change what this team had before the trade and it was all gone after the trade. But, I’m still a fan of the trade, just not at the time.

Sorry to see its status quo around here…..Glad the fish are biting…..

I miss Do Nothing Dan Evans. :-) Seriously he wasn’t bad ,and his hands were tied by Fox , but I think he knew how to build a team. He was the one that signed Vlady before Frank vetoed it. Imagine how different things would be if Vlady came here. The Ds are a big market team without a franchise player. I wouldn’t mind the return of Evans

I may take baseball more simply than you guys because I don’t quote stats too much but I think you can get too obsessed with them. In the medical profession we call it looking at the labwork rather than the clinical picture. I watch many Dodger games being a Dodger fanatic whether they’re winning or losing. It’s true with any baseball team. The team members can be outstanding with fantastic stats but each one has to be able to play as a team member. Look at some of the teams with the best players in baseball, eg the Giants with Bonds. I was upset when Shawn Green, Paul LoDuca, Dave Roberts, Jose Lima were traded, especially Paul LoDuca who at the time was the team captain. The team basically was 95% different when they started the new season. They were not the Dodgers of the year before. But somehow the Dodgers were #1 for much of this season until now when they slid to 4 games out of first place today. There still are great plays, great homeruns. Look at Andre Ethier and his huge homeruns. Russell Martin is a team player, he’s good defensively and offensively. And look at Brad who is a Cy Young contender. We have many outstanding young players who are still getting the experience. Watching the game is awesome, especially in person. We have to support the team, the management, everyone involved because it’s what we have. The Dodgers are capable of being in first place again. It’s extremely discouraging to hear you guys state that they’ve already lost. team. To the last game every season, the stadium is full. We don’t roll over and die. Let’s give them our support. I thank you guys for all the information on this blog. You know what you’re talking about and most of us are learning just from reading it. All of you have good points whether it be pro or con but not worth getting upset over it. Baseball is America’s favorite pasttime, remember???

xoxrussell,

i think everybody here support the dodgers organization and the players…

the only thing that we don’t want is the way they handle it…

and that’s the reason why some emotions are firing up…

u can’t blame them for saying all this bad things coz if u look at the team right now it seems like there is NO willingness to win games… there is no energy… and without that we can’t win games…

remember what carries the team in the playoffs last year? it’s the emotions, the energy and willingness to win games…

the fans has been amazing and positive to the team and NOW is the time that the team should put a smile in our faces…

Van
Thanks. U remember I stated that the Dodgers seem to be lethargic of late. Tonight they’re on the road. Maybe they’ll get back on track and be number 1 again.

That’s one of the biggest problems. The Fans fill the stadium whether the product on the field is good or bad. If Frank is making money he has no urgency to try and build a winner. When the Mets stunk, the stadium was not full and that forced management to improve the team. I support them win or lose, but it becomes harder when I see constant bad management decisions.

is Kent really going to play today?
coz grady keep saying that he’s playing tom.. tom.. tom…

still he is not…

i don’t know how good kent will do coz we all know that if a player is sidelined in a week the touch and the swing might be gone…

the only thing i wanted him to do right now is situational hits to deliver some runs coz that is what we are lacking right now…

So you look at fan support as a negative?? I think you would call that a “fair weather” fan. No one can compare Dodger fans with even Mets fans. Again I allude to the Boston Red Sox. It took decades but it happened. And the Sox fans are as diehard as the Dodger fans.

Kent is slated to play today. He is probaby one of the consistent hitters on the team other than Ethier. Maybe they can use him as a pinch hitter. I noticed they almost did that last week as a matter of fact. He was up practicing swings during the game so he must have been close then, at least to pinch hit.

Van
What do you think of the Cardinals’ 10 hits in a row yesterday against the Padres?? And they’re like 7 games out of first place in the Central Division. Wow!!!

yeah they actually said that kent can hit but can’t run…

i think Kent is smart enough not to run so hard with a ground ball…

why not try him just to hit? if it doesn’t work so be it…

grady don’t have guts that’s why… too scared coz maybe he thinks kent is stupid…

maybe that’s why Kent is so frustrated coz even if he knows he can play the management don’t want him too…

well if the cardinals gets hot that’s bad for us coz we play them after the reds…
but on the positive note i hope it continue in the padres series…

I don’t think fan support is a negative thing , only that we as fans pay good money to see the Ds play and deserve a team like the Red Sox or Mets. After all we are a big market and I think we deserve better than we have.

fliegel,
we have a good team…

the only thing we need is power… a power bat who can lift us in one swing…

i think our team is very exciting… this team is entertainment to everyone…

when they score alot of runs it comes with alot of hits and that is the most exciting thing to watch…

on the negative part… when they don’t get hits we lose…

jheurman..

I agree…I would prefer someone like Kevin Kennedy..He always says the right things before and after games…and I think he understands the game better…but.we won’t be getting him or anyone else..

By the way, Ned is going to be on the chat line this afternoon at 2p.m…on the Dodger site…maybe we can chat him up???

C O G R A D U L A T I O N S To Barry Bonds. His name is finaly at the top of the homerun list. I remember the day he went to the Giants, I believe that team was owned temporarilly by a group of people including Mike Piazza’s father. They never were given the team because they had some connection to crime but unfortunately He remain with the team anyway. I felt bad I knew he was great even then. I was more mad he went to th Giants, the team I hated. But I say this He did it. How I don’t care. Whatever the final total is that’s the number to shoot for. I root against the team but I have nothing against Barry Bonds.

That’s Congradulations.

The above congradulations to Barry Bonds was written on the wrong blog. I repeated it in it’s proper place on the 8/7/07 blog.

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