The Breakfast Club

"The world’s an imperfect place, sir. Screws fall out all the time."

It’s 10:30 on a Saturday morning, so there’s no better time for a quote from The Breakfast Club. Plus, when I walked into the press box, the Giants’ PR interns were watching the movie, which is what made me think of that line.

Meanwhile, I had breakfast this morning in a diner down the street from our hotel and saw several Dodger fans up here. Also noticed a feint chant last night at AT&T Park of "Let’s Go Dodgers" late in the game. Good to see you all out in full force in the Bay Area, where the team has won nine straight games.

Today’s game is on FOX regionally. Mike Lieberthal will read off the lineups for your entertainment and Rick Honeycutt will be interviewed in game. Here’s the non-Lieberthal version of the lineups:

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF (three straight multi-hit games and five in last six games)

Martin, C (has reached base in eight straight PA and has five consecutive hits)

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Loney, 1B (eight hits in last 14 at-bats)

Betemit, 3B

Ethier, RF (five hits and six RBI in his last two games)

Lowe, P

Safe to say, the kids are playing well these days. And speaking of kids at play, tomorrow, President George W. Bush will host a tee ball game on the White House lawn in honor of Jackie Robinson’s 60th anniversary of breaking the color barrier. The game will host teams from the Inner-City Little League of Brooklyn, NY and the Wrigley Little League of Los Angeles, CA, the two home cities of Robinson’s team, the Dodgers.  The Dodgers will be represented by Special Advisor to the Chairman Tommy Lasorda, Director of Community Affairs Don Newcombe and Senior Vice President of Public Affairs, Howard Sunkin. This will be the 17th tee ball game at the White House and it will bring together some of Robinson’s original teammates and other notable baseball icons.



    Why does Ethier always bat 8th? I don’t think he sees the best pitches because the pitcher is always batting after him. If there are runners on for him with two outs, the opposing team seems to just walk him to get to the pitcher. I don’t think that Betemit would get an IBB batting 8th. It looks like Nomar is slowly becoming a platoon player. I’m not really surprised when i don’t see him in the lineup


    Did you ever wonder if they weren’t Dodger fans but Giant fans mocking their own team with that “Let’s go Dodgers” chant while the Dodgers were taking BP in the top of the 9th? Always my bad luck they do that when I’m not keeping score. Maybe I should stop keeping score. I’d like to be at the White House lawn when they honor Jackie Robinson’s 60th anniversary breaking the Color Barrier with Tommy LaSorda and Don Newcombe and some of Robby’s old team team mates, my boyhood team, with Howard Sunkin. B’klyn vs LA little league,in a Tee Ball game great show. I just ordered a Jackie Robinson 60th Anniversary T-Shirt and a regular J.R. T-shirt. In today’s game I’d like to see the MEAT MAN at 3rd base get his 10th HR. If these guys can keep up the fine hitting it could take the pressure off our starting pitching and our great relief core later in the games. I see LaSorda & Milano have big blogs which I like to comment on. Well it’s Saturday after noon and I’ll be LISTENING to the game(No Dodger TV) to the East today. So all I can say is LETS GO DODGERS!!!!!


    Let’s GO DODGERS!!!!!!!
    let’s make it 10!!!!!!!!!

    the gnats are looking pathetic for years to come I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!


    Interesting 2nd in batting, 3rd in hits, MARTIN 6th in RBI, 45 hits in the last 3 games but very Dodger like 40 singles.


    That’s interesting too that 1st inning for LOWE but very Lowelike 2errors a hit and a double play.


    Charlie Steiner & Rick Monday said it’s not that much of a rivalry when you look at the standings. Since when has the standings meant anything.


    The Dodgers & Giants even now are the greatest rivalry in all of sports. There truly is no domination. And the standings never mattered.


    It’s another LOWELIKE game which is turning out be LOWE keeping the ball on the ground “Lowelike” but the Dodgers keep their hitting shoes in their lockers. Lowe’s pop up bunt cost us a run. How long will this go on?


    Betemit is a difference maker with one swing, something this team needs. Also, for that to go over the glove of Bonds made it even more sweet. I love that opposite field HR swing from Betemit.


    The MEAT MAN just as I wished for with number 10. He joins old reliable KENT, MARTIN & da GONZ.


    if Furcal gets hot like he did last year after his injuries went away this team will be alot better.

    Its tough to find a place for Kemp now. Ethier is doing well and so is Gonzo.


    Is That Really Phonebooth park almost sounded like Dodger Stadium with that Kent Shot. Nice of Morris to throw some 5th inn. BP.


    Why would anybody be worried about KEMP right now? Winning is the bottom line, not Kemp. Don’t worry He’ll get ABs.


    NOW LET’S GET THEM 2 RUNS BACK. Lowe proberbly not use to waiting that long in the dugout to pitch.


    the best way to develop young players is to give them as many ABs as possible. The best way for Kemp to learn how to hit a breaking ball is to get him as many ABs as possible. It’s simple. The concern for Kemp is warranted. He is very talented and we want him to realize that talent asap. But yes, winning is the most important thing. Can’t get Gonzo out of the lineup, Ethier is heating up, and Pierre’s contract won’t get benched anytime soon. Kemp will just get playing time against lefty’s and pinch hit oppurtunites. Time to bench Nomar on a more consistent basis? How bout just playing Nomar when they’re playing at home? Betimit needs to play.


    Love seein Lowe get some run support, if he had run support he would have the most wins in baseball right now but thats the past now. If the dodgers continue to hit like they have been since Mueller took over look forward to seein the Dodgers pursue that 100 win mark and an easy div. title. I am lookin forward to a GREAT 2nd half and some exciting October baseball. Dodgers V. Pads. in the NLCS????


    I agree with Kemp needing at bats but there is no room for him right now, Ethier is heating up, Gonzo has been there all yr and Pierre is very important to our run scoring ability (also Kemp is not a CF). I think I would take my chances with Nomar on a consistent basis then Betemit, Betemit wasnt great last yr either only hitting in the 260 range, a slumping Nomar is more productive. I have a question though in order to get a big bat the Dodgers would have to give up Kemp, Ethier, or Loney who would be expendable?


    I hope LOWE just had a bad inning. I hope it ain’t he can’t pitch well with a lead.


    I was talking winning is more important than KEMP getting at bat’s TODAY. GRADY is giving everybody a chance to hit which is good for all including KEMP and the Dodgers. I think he’ll bat today, regardless of what happens in the game.


    spanky i disagree… betimit showed good power last year, and has shown good power this year. You can’t just measure their performances by batting average. Nomar does not take any walks either.

    pierre… i see. I was just saying I’m concerned about Kemp’s ABs and subsequently his development. Just pointing it out. Realistically, you have to go with who’s hot in LF and RF, and Pierre in CF because of that contract… just shouldn’t forget about Kemp.


    This is our time of the game I don’t think LOWE should come back we, as I say, are inside our own BULLPEN.


    6 out of 7 multi hit games for Pierre, good thing we’re only playing him because of his contract…he’s locked in right now!


    We have wonderful problems right now, Tied for first and hoping our young hitters get a chance to hit.


    BEIMEL why the bar that night before then NLDS? Yah nevahhh know. JOE learned his lesson I hope.


    I agree I wanna see Kemp in their as much as you do I really enjoy watchin him hit, he has more power then Ethier and also more potential but I believe Ethier is more polished and better RIGHT NOW, but it will be nice seein Etheir in left and Kemp in Right next yr. lineup of the future looks nice.
    Furcal SS (gotta resign him)

    Pierre CF

    Martin C

    Loney 1B

    Kemp RF/LF

    Ethier LF/RF

    LaRoche 3B

    Abreu 2B

    and thats just our farm system maybe a trade for a third basemen in store, I woudl liek thatbut I have not seen much of LaRoche.

    But I do like our chances with our lineup right now ESPECIALLY if Kent gets hot.


    It sure is nice to see Barry and that big ol’ head of his hitless over the last two games.



    I know, i hated watching him get walked all the time I love seein him ge tpitched to with 1st base open and doing nothing its so great. I almost expect him to break the record against the dodgers if I remember right he hit #500, 600 and 700 againts us.


    He is stroking the ball well today even his right handed at bat he hit the ball well. I still think Nomar should get his noram amount of starts and at bats, he’s a great player. Maybe a sudden surge would make Betemit worth more on the market. What do you gusy think frontline starter or big bat (witht he recent surge of offense)?


    I’m almost certain im looking it up right now, I remember 500 it was off Chan Ho Park.


    nope wow i butchered that one I dont know where that came from but he did hit 500 off the dodgers in a Chan Ho Park start but Chan Ho Park was out…sorry bad information lol


    Stiener & Monday talking about Jackie Robinson when he was traded to GNATS. NO WAY said JACK. I RETIRE. The last great thing to happen to the Dodgers in B’klyn. He would not put on the uniform of the black & the orange.


    I’m wrong the last best thing to happen was winning the pennant in 1956. But Jackie NOT going to the Giants was also good.


    Ok seriously who didn’t see that coming after being hit in the foot…Gibson style…I may puke


    Please tell me this is not another nice start for Lowe where he gets No Decision.


    Well that at least give BROXTON another HOLD. SAITO was ready to come in last night before the barrage, so now’s we wait for him again.


    Man all the momentum is on the Giants side, we really need to dig deep and get out of here with the W.


    **** we don’t have Kent, Gonzo, Abreu and we only have Seanez, Stults and Hendrickson (on his side day) to pitch.


    Geez, too scared to pitch to Bonds. I would have rather him knock it out then walk him and let those other grits knock him in.


    Let’s hope they keep it going, the MEAT MAN must be seeing the ball GOOOOD.


    Always afraid something bad will happen but you never know how it will happen.


    am i the only ones thats not surprised that Olmedo versus a righty didn’t work out that well?

    this is pathetic.


    PAIN IS RIGHT alex and it keeps coming back. Sometimes I wonder why I couldn’t become a Yankee OR a MET fan. But MY blood runs blue.


    I agree Max, where the **** is Nomar???? I pick Nomar over Saenz any day, at least Nomar does not get doubled up there.


    “Oinkmedo” Saenz ought to be DFA’d – absolutely worthless anymore. If Grady lets him hit in another crucial game situation, he should be DFA’s as well, but then he should be gone after this season anyway.


    does anyone else notice martin drops the F bomb everytime he pops up I enjoy watching him play most heart by a dodger then i have seen ina long time.


    ok good zobeida I wa shioping i wasnt the only one lol, dont pitch around Bonds and we will get thru this inning u cant just keep giving them a free runner


    lol its nice to see someone wanna do well every at bat. You see so many hitters these days act as if they dont care, you sure cant say that about Rus


    Bonds is not as tough as he used to be not so tough you should pitch around him every at bat like when he juiced every night. Hendrickson has been great for us this yr, Cant downplay his importance at all.


    You have to admire Hendrickson’s spunk in this one. Very nicely done. We need to win this one for him.


    Hendy has come in time in and time out to give us 2-3 good innings out of the bullpen on numerous occasions.


    haha i can’t have a man crush because i’m not a man, but if he pops out, well too bad…what can you do, eh?

    nice job hendrickson. now, let’s score some runs in the 12th…pleeeease


    Let’s pray that Lurch has a little more left. 2 innings, one hit, no runs. Nice work Hendy!!!

    Let’s get some runs and finish this off, then send Lowe out for a really nice dinner and apologize for blowing what should be his win.

    GO BLUE!!!


    flyball to bonds and he throws out his arm throwing home and misses the res tof the season 😀


    Wow lets go Raffy…you cant double up Raffy why would they do that??? Well there stupid move.


    OK now, two in scoring position, let’s put SOMETHING on the board.

    Let’s go Dodgers!!!


    Sooner or Later it’s got to happen…. an SF. Maybe we can hold. COM ‘ON GUYS.


    Like I said with Hendy before Seanez has been the same way this yr he has come up big for us. Look for this game to be over in 10 mins.


    huge to pull out this game, great pitching hendy and rudy. Can you saw 10 in a row behind enemy lines in SF.


    I remember as a kid in school the priciple took over an hour to unravel rosary beads he never gave up and at the end he said “THAT WAS EASY”


    Now we need to send some good vibes to Tomko for tomorrow. He’s been pretty rough this year but I can’t believe that he is done. Bring home the sweep, Brett.

    GO BLUE!!!

  61. But we won and what can we add…. Well I can add that Grady still doesn’t know when to pull a pitcher and it almost cost another game, that and he was so sure he had the game won he pulled out Kent and Gonzo. Bochy left Bonds in the whole game ,why couldn’t Grady leave those guys in? Also when you lead 7-2 in the eighth inning you should go with your best in Broxton and finish off the other team. After all, he had to use Broxton anyway, and then had to use up more of his pen. Good win but terrible managing.


    I feel so bad for DLowe…

    A couple thoughts: I agree with messagebear about Olmaedo… He hasnt been making good contact for pretty much the entire year and is pulling his head and flying off of EVERY ball. He seems pretty much worthless, and that being said i wwas very disappointed when they didnt pinch hit Nomar.. I really cant think of any reason why Grady did that..

    Terrible move by Boschy to IBB Nomar, but thank you anyways… Very weird game. I dont think we should have taken Tsao out when he gave up the granny. There were two outs. if Winn does something than than he is gone but its hard to imagine that something would be a granny. After he hit that ball of his foot and looked hurt i was thrilled, thinking all Tsao had to do was get a fastball over the plate.. Which is apparantly what he though too, and proved us both wrong.

    Anyone remember last year, i dont remember the opponent but i believe it was a home day game? Anyways, Kemp did pretty much the same thing. Hit a ball hard off his foot and wobbled around for a while. Got back in, next pitch hit a bomb to center. It was a nice moment..

    Solid game today bc we won, but ridiculously close. Im glad we pulled it out though because after Olmado failed so miserably in the 10th i sincerely thought we were done.


    I said a prayer for TOMKO last Sunday at Our lady Of Mount Carmel Church, when I thought he was starting. My prayer was answered when he didn’t start. This week I’ll have to do it again looks like this is for real. I’d just like to say that that was a satifying win today especially leading 6-0 and 7-2 before they tied it up. That must make them REAL MAD and I hope they stay that way. The gnat fans are saying “youse were lucky”. My answer is THAT’S RIIIIGHT.


    Fliegel, you leave Bonds in bc you are 10 games back and if you pull him everyone will leave. You cant fault grady for not pulling Tsao there– we were up by 5 runs. Please– up by 5 runs you should bring in your best.. Hindsight is always 20/20 buddy– lets be realistic. If you;re up 7-2 you save your best…


    You guys are excited that we won but wait we are going to go into a losing streak i bet all you a 100% the reason is that we are not using are talented plyers like kemp,loney,la roche,eithier,Blake DeWitt,Preston Mattingly,Josh Bell all these players are way better than furcal,pierre,ganzo and kent these are all old farts if this franchise was wise we would trade for even more talent.we should trade or sit pierre he stinks.


    preciado – Are you serious? DeWitt is hitting .300 in his SECOND MINOR LEAGUE SEASON with zero HR’s, Bell is hitting .274 in his SECOND SEASON and Mattingly, drafted one year ago, is a 19 year old kid that is hitting all of .239 in single A ball, and you are ready to hand them the keys? They’ll be fine, someday, but they are not ready for the show. Do your homework.


    lots of competition for a-rod this winter.

    Red Sox Will Pursue A-Rod This Winter

    According to Bill Madden and Mark Feinsand, the Red Sox will make a “huge push” for Alex Rodriguez this winter if he opts out of his contract. The New York Daily News writers heard this from multiple sources.

    Madden and Feinsand’s source seems to indicate the push for A-Rod would be driven by team president and CEO Larry Lucchino. In other words, this wil go past Theo Epstein (Buster Olney indicated today that he’d be loathe to tie up 20% of the payroll in one player).

    The Red Sox entered 2007 with a $143MM payroll, up $23MM from 2006. Here are the major changes we can expect for 2008:


    $2MM more for Manny Ramirez

    $1MM more for Julio Lugo

    $2MM more for Daisuke Matsuzaka

    $3.5MM more for Josh Beckett

    $1.25MM more for Coco Crisp

    An additional $9.75MM in escalating salaries


    $13MM for Curt Schilling

    9.5MM for Matt Clement

    $9MM for Mike Lowell

    $2.81MM for Eric Hinske

    $4MM for Joel Pineiro

    $2.8MM for Mike Timlin

    $41.11MM off the books

    The Red Sox are essentially gaining $31MM to play with for 2008, if they are to keep payroll around $143MM. That gels nicely with the expected salary of Rodriguez. And the team isn’t overflowing with needs – they could conceivably just replace Schilling with Clay Buchholz and keep Julian Tavarez around as the fifth starter. And maybe they’ll toss another $6MM or so toward crappy veteran relievers. The trio of Papelbon, Okajima, and Delcarmen could be cheap and effective.

    Bottom line: the Red Sox could sign A-Rod this winter and enter 2008 with a reasonable $150MM payroll (less than a 5% increase and still far less than the Yankees).


    interesting game.
    1) i don’t think i mind a future OF of kemp/JP/ethier for the next several years. having said that, if ned chooses to dump JP and bring in a bopping CF, i’m sure i won’t mind that.

    2) wonder when delwyn young is going to get a shot to rake in the big show. wasn’t he an ex-2b-man? more flexibility for the Blue: backup OF/2b.

    3) i think i don’t like how grittle uses our bullpen. and i don’t want to get into specifics right now, but it’s how i feel.

    4) as exciting this year is, next year is going to be fun to watch more of the kids play everyday.

    5) i get the sense that somehow, someway, betemit is going to end up playing 3b everyday for the Blue, not laroche. though i’d LOVE to see LA-ROD here despite the $25mm bucks he’ll cost. that would lave laroche/betemit as trade bait to shore up our BP/SP. we’ll have a lot more cash to spend if/when nomas and kent are gone…

    have a good night everybody! great to pick up another W. first Nl team to 51!


    : | I understand what you’re saying, and hindsight is 20/20 ,but my point was that when a team is down in the late innings you should go with your best, and finish them off.Then if you still lose, you did all that you can do. Grady had to use Broxton anyway ,and Grady almost turned a win into a loss.


    How about Ethier to CF and Kemp to RF vs the lefty tommorrow? I mean **** were throwing Tomko, why not try it?

    Kemp vs lefties:

    .405av .439ob .898ops

    Pierre vs lefties :

    .232av .245ob .508ops


    even though he was platoon splits…

    anyways we’re facing a lot of LHP after this so clearly kemp will be playing plenty.


    i found it rather interesting that the Dodgers are interesting in Scott Procter and Octavio Dotel.


    pierre’s contract is the only thing keeping him in the lineup? haha okay..go ahead and disregard what he’s done the entire season…instead, keep on focusing on his negatives (as if no player has negatives), and then mention his contract as even more support..but to say that that is the sole reason? lol..


    what has pierre done the whole season? have probably the worst first half of his career?


    not the mention the fact he’s on pace for a historically bad year for anyone Dodgers centerfielder in history.


    he’s been steady as of late and is contributing to Dodger wins….everytime he gets on base, you know something’s gonna happen on the bases.. and he’s also been hitting well as of let with strings of multi-hit games and clutch rbi hits….but then again, if he didnt have such a big contract, he would have been DFA’d, cuz apparently he cant play in the majors talent-wise….

    it’s hard to believe people hating a particular Dodger as much as you do, especially coming from a Dodger makes it seem like you’re rooting against him to succeed or something….i mean, it’s perfectly fine to not like certain players, but to nitpick and find every conceivable reason to hate the guy, that just gets annoying…I can’t wait for his next 0-4 game, he’ll get blasted on this blog..thats just the way it goes…

    tommorow’s another day, and our next loss (hopefully not for a while) will undoubtedly be Grady, Ned, Nomar and JP’s “fault”….just wondering who gets the credit for the Dodgers win? Last time i checked, we win as a team and lose as a team….


    by the way…now we’re in FIRST place….hopefully we stay on top the rest of the way…go BLUE! 🙂


    casino… the thing about Pierre is not that we’re are nitpicking on him, its that he just can’t hit very well. For a guy at the top of the lineup, #1 or #2, he doesn’t not get on base enough. A .313 OBP is just not good at all, even if a .284 BA is attached to it. a good OBP would be around .360 and up. Most of his hits are singles, so most of the time with Pierre a walk is as good as a hit. Sure he steals a lot of bags, but he gets thrown out a lot too. And his defense is not very good. Those are BIG things I am pointing out agreed? Truth is many people believe Matt Kemp is already a better player that Pierre, but Pierre’s contract won’t let him sit in favor of Kemp. Of course we aren’t rooting against him or any Dodger, but that contract is really killer for the next 5 years.


    i agree its a big contract…..what i don’t get is why certain players get picked on and some don’t. For instance, Loney’s consecutive game error streak he’s currently on….no one grills him on that? But if it was nomar or JP, they would be grilled to the ground and you would never hear the end of it.

    What about Kemp’s predictable strikeouts? I think the league knows that you can probably throw him 3 straight breaking balls and probably get a swinging K….

    but for all the bad things that Kemp and Loney or other dodgers do (which is rare), they do good things as well, like Loney’s good defensive plays for example and it all balances out, which is great.

    So im just wondering why JP or anyone else doesnt get the same treatment? If you’re going to overlook some problems and give the guy a pass, why do certain guys not get the same? Everytime i hear a Nomar or JP interview and you see how much they care and how much they want to go out there and stay positive and win, you can’t but root for the guys….It’s just sad that after hearing post game interviews from them, I have to come on this BLOG and here the same complaining, nitpicking that goes on, most of which is pretty predictable by now..


    Loney and Kemp have a lot of talent, and have “high ceilings”. We know what Pierre can do and for the most part it is not as good as what Loney or Kemp might be able to do. Also, look at the numbers… both Loney and Kemp are hitting around .400 with power. Pierre and Nomer have flailed at the plate all year. Neither has much power or patience at the plate. Again its not nitpicking… these are BIG things that Nomar and Pierre have not done well this year. They also get paid A LOT more than Loney and Kemp, so more is expected from them. I think our arguments are quite fair and logical.


    casinod, the answer is simple. first of all, pierre and nomar were brought here (and being paid handsomely) to get the job done and for the most part they haven’t. true pierre has picked it up a bit. some people just don’t like what pierre brings to the game because our team would have been better served by bringing in a power hitter, even though it became very difficult to do so. people aren’t going to harp on everything the kids do wrong because 1) we are rooting hard for them to do well so that they stick and b) they are green and going to make mistakes, and they’re human. vetertans like pierre etc. are human also but contribution and consistency are expected from them, and when they don’t come through its frustrating. its exciting for people to see the prospects we’ve been hearing about for so long finally come up and do well. even when they’re not perfect its fun to watch them play. nomar and pierre are both hard workers and they’ll continue to be and im sure every wants them to do well. however, players with big contracts who fail to live up to expectations are going to be the source of frustration and complaints.


    forgot to mention..betemit had a great game….you can see how happy he gets when he gets those hits…it must be tough being on the bench, but at least he doesn’t pout about it, and makes the best of it when he gets to play, a true team player!

    Anyone see Kent rub Martin on the head after touching home on that 3-run homer? I think Kent was giving props to Martin for keeping the inning alive with that 2 out rbi to right field, leading to the 3-run bomb….nice to see that vet leadership out of Kent 🙂


    yah, well i’m not disagreeing with your points….the kids are showing great flashes, and they have nothing but high ceilings, and I can wait for them to hit those ceilings and reach their max potential..

    i’m just kind of tired of coming on this BLOG and predicting what comments are going to be made during and after the game about certain players. Comments like “now that’s how a real center fielder should play” kind of rub me the wrong way when you’re basically putting down a Dodger player…but i guess that’s me, and from the short time i’ve been on this blog, i’ve kind of notice that’s how it goes around here….that, and blaming grady or NED after every loss, it never gets old i guess 🙂


    It’s all about giving proper due when Pierre’s does right and letting him know when he’s done wrong. There is not nearly enough of that from some on this blog, they play their favorites and let the little things go, but some have it in for Pierre and don’t give a **** what good he’s done for this team at times, especially in the past three weeks. Whatever, let them hold their grudge, if we all got along this blog would be bland.

    I actually didn’t stop watching today, but did have to leave since the game ran way long, I listened to Steiner yell play by play in the 12th, though I like him regardless and always have since his ESPN days. really impressive 2 innings of relief from Hendrickson to keep us in it. Loney and Betemit set the table and Furcal did exactly what was needed (a sac fly), S.D lost so we have sole possession of first place and the best record in the National League.

    Tough game tomorrow, but gotta hold out hope our offense can keep it going and Tomko can just keep us in it. Saito will bounce back, he’s still the best!




    How is it possible for someone to only walk 15 times in 392 PAs? How about just 17 extra base hits in 392 PAs? and 255 outs plus 9 Caught Stealing to equal 264 outs in 392 PAs? Is this player worth 9 million per year for 5 years? ehhh….


    listen dodgerdude
    JP has 14 hits in the last 7 games.

    There are players who perform far worse and get paid far more (Barry Zito, Richie Sexton, JD Drew just to name a few)


    is he worth it? probably not…

    should he be bashed everytime he does something wrong while not being recognized when he does something well? i guess it depends on your overall view towards him I guess..

    i can’t control that unfortunately…but personally, I tend not to judge a player on stats in relation to how much money he makes…that’s kind of a weird ratio and it detracts from actually enjoying a game when i’m looking at how much money the guy makes in deciding whether I like him or not….but hey, that’s just me 🙂


    you’re right casinod, the pleasure i derive out of games is watching good, talented ball players show what they can do. thats the argument, because you could make one that pierre simply isn’t a good ballplayer. that detracts from MY enjoyment. but hey, to each his own.


    i don’t disagree, we all have our opinions…… and you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, and its unfortunate that you have to watch dodger games with a player you feel isn’t good enough to play, such as JP, and its even more unfortunate that it’s taking away from your enjoyment of watching the game…

    But i must tell you, nothing you or I say on this BLOG will take him out of the lineup or off the team, unless Grady or NED decide to take let one of you guys write the lineup or make personnel decisions and DFA JP, so i guess until that happens, MY personal enjoyment derived from reading this BLOG will be kept at a minimum with the same old negative comments that apply to the same players on our squad (win or lose)…

    but luckily for me, watching the games is way more fun than reading this blog 🙂


    we should have resigned Kenny Lofton but enough with the whole Pierre argument. I still dont think he’ll play out that entire contract in Dodger blue anyways.

    SO what about tomorrow…i’ll say tomko goes 4 1/3 and gives up a bomb to barriods and allows 5 runs. Thats actually my optimistic outlook.


    Stats are a big part on how players are evaluated by most people casio… the problem with evaluating on what u see is that you dont always see everything a player does. What if in a week a player goes 6 for 24(.250), but you only saw 3 games that week and he went 4 for 12(.333) in those games, and 2 for 12(.167) in the other 3 games. You might get the impression that the player is better than he is because of what you saw. Simple example but u get my point. Now the money part of that is important because, well, good baseball players cost a lot of money. And when u pay a player “good baseball player money” they should play like a good baseball player.


    since everyone thinks we’ll lose tommorrow, we’ll probably win. isn’t that how it always works?


    umm, we’ll ive been watching the Dodgers the entire season, so I pretty much know what type of players we have on our team, so it’s not like i’m watching from afar….there are higher paid players on other teams that are having worse seasons than some of our guys….

    what i don’t get is how far out of their way some people would go to criticize our players…it’s even more noticeable after a loss, and the same group of people are to blame.

    For now, it is what it is…we’re not the GM’s, so we cant change the situation and the roster, so now that we have the guys on our roster, why not go ahead and support them, give them props when they do well, as well as let them know when they do bad? But apparently, its only the latter that happens far too often..


    Juan Pierre is probably our 4th best outfielder. 5th in you count Loney.

    I don’t see how hard it is to look at his stats and comprehend that. Do you guys think we just make this stuff up? Come on now really.


    Don’t get me wrong, if we win it all with this roster I will be the happiest man alive. There’s nothing wrong with wanting the best players possible play for your team right? I just think Pierre was a mistake, but if we win it all I wont ever say another word about it.


    Even if you see every game, how can u possibly remember every single play and everything each player does. How can you make a fair and complete assessment of a player without stats? Stats are vital to evaluating baseball players.


    Joy to the world, we’re in first place, best record in the N.L and we’re talking about Juan Pierre…again. This is so simple, when Pierre does something well comment, instead of ignoring it and waiting for him to ground out to pop on here and comment. Other than that I really don’t care what you think of him, he’s a Dodger, he can help this team, we’re winning with him, he’s not going anywhere and he’s going to play every single day. This topic has been done to death! We all get it…we’ve gotten it for the past 7 months since the man was signed. But I will say this he’s probably a better person than 95% of the players in this league. I respect him and he deserves more respect than some of you give him on and off the field.


    sure, maybe pierre might have been a mistake, for his salary and the length of his contract, and sure maybe his stats are a bit off of what you might expect for a guy getting paid $9-10 million.

    But does he really have to be brought up negatively time and time again? I mean, we’re halfway through the season and past the all-star break and people are still complaining? If there’s so much complaining right now about him and his contract, I cant even start to imagine what it was like when he was first signed…

    I guess my point is that it would be nice to come on this Blog and not get stats thrown up about how “bad” pierre is, comments about what a “real center fielder looks like”, how we should have signed “player X, Y, and Z over Pierre” and how pierre’s walk to bi-weekly paycheck ratio is so low compared to the national average… 🙂

    i guess i’m just used to being on different sites, like Lakers forums where they actually talk about the game that was played, rather than talking about the past and who we should have signed, and then dwelling on this miscue by brining up every conceivable stat to back it up, as if that’s going to change anything..


    Alex…amen….from now on, i’m just going to post about the game and stop trying to get my point across, because we all know the bickering/bashing of our own players won’t stop, especially since the “stats” prove it, and somehow that justifies continuous bashing? *shrugs*

    anyways, we’re in FIRST PLACE and let’s keep it that way!!!!!!!!!!!!


    you can’t compare other sports to baseball. Baseball is less subjective than other sports. Stats are a big part of baseball guys. U know who the original stats guy in baseball was? Our very own Branch Rickey. He was the first to use OBP as a way to measure a player’s value… among the other great things he did. Jackie Robinson was a high on-base “moneyball” type guy… only he had some speed as well. How can we talk about the dodger without talking about Pierre who will end up taking about 700 ABs for the dodgers this year?


    The reason we “focus” on the bad is because he does more “bad” than most 9 million dollar a year players should. I’m not saying he’s the most overpaid and underachieving player in baseball, but he’s among them.


    anyway… we’re in first by 1 game, and Bomko is pitching tomorrow. I want to see Johnathon Meloan up soon.


    Here’s a situation actually worth talking about, the third base situation, should we platoon Nomar and Betemit at third base? Nomar against lefties and Betemit against righties. At the very least on the road, I believe they should do it. At home Nomar is a different player and people do come out to see him. Sort of like Craig Biggio in Houston, where they’re going to limit his playing time on the road for the better of the team. Be serious with your answers…


    dodgerdude…maybe you misunderstood my posting, but when i referenced the Lakers Forum, I was specifically talking about the general postings that were found by individual fans like you and me and the general atmosphere of the fan blogs, and NOT the SPORT itself….there, the people/posters/fans would focus on the game played and how good the game was, what fantastic plays were made, etc…

    rather than what i typically find on this blog, i.e. focusing on “mistakes” that were made in the offseason and harping on them to the point where you get immune to the same old arguments, i.e. JP *****, he’s overpayed, we should have gotten Player X, Y, Z…

    and you have the right to go ahead and focus on the bad all you want, and you can justify it all you want, but I guess its just me, i’m not used to having the same “point” drilled into my head day in and day out, this BLOG has become very predictable, as far as postings go, and that is why I said it was different than the Lakers forum i was used to, where people wouldn’t complain about the same player day in and day out and instead would focus on other things….

    anyways, i don’t really care about what you think about can show all the stats you want, because stats don’t lie and you’re opinions/points are probably dead on 100% right…but it really detracts from the whole concept of a “fan blog” when the postings are the same day in and day out, and efforts to bash the guy are common as common…..

    anyways, i give up…i’m not trying to change your mind, because quite frankly we probably see eye to eye on many things Dodger related, including pierre, his stats and salary issues…it would just be nice to focus on other DODGER related things, because the NL WEST is far more exciting than harping on how we should have gotten Player X instead of JP, etc etc


    Alex….i liked how betemit played today..i got to wondering how he would do if he became an everyday player again. I know he had his struggles early on, but when he’s gotten a start here and there, he’s shown something our team lacks, which is POWER….As far as Nomar, he still can get you hits here and there, while Betemit has a tendency to strike out…so its a tough call


    I’d be down with limiting Nomar’s playing time away and giving it to Betimit. I like Betimit a bit, I’d even wanna see him take some PT away from Nomar at home because I think he provides some power that we lack. Overall Bet needs more PT and Nomar less, and this is especially true on the road.


    Doesnt all the arguing make the blog better? I think it would be lame if everyone just said “go dodgers!” all the time.


    i don’t really think its arguing when it’s a moot point. Pierre isn’t a beltran type CF, his stats don’t prove it, and he’s getting paid close to “superstar” money….point conceded….

    i think of it more like beating a dead horse 🙂


    yea… but Juan Pierre is like a big zit on your GFs forehead: it’s right in front of you, you can’t ignore it, and you know she’ll look a lot better when it’s gone.


    hmm, interesting take…… 😉

    anyways, anyone think the Dodgers are going to make a trade before the deadline? I sure would like another starter, so who on the TB roster can we pick up this time? 🙂


    If you look at actual major league playing time, I’m thinking that Betemit doesn’t have any more of it than say Ethier, so he’s still a major leaguer in development and with a lot of power potential. I like him at third when he’s hitting. It also seems to me that he’s coachable, and Mueller can do a lot with him in terms of patience and waiting for the right pitch. I think he should now be getting plenty of chances at third, even if it cuts Nomar short. The platoon basis and home/away playing suggestions offered above would be a good start.
    I also think that Nomar should get used to becoming the prime pinch-hitting guy when not in the lineup, because Saenz is no longer performing in that role. I get so frustrated with Saenz blowing such obvious scoring chances as yesterday, and that is no longer an exception – he is just plain unreliable in those situations anymore.



    Here our Dodgers have won four straight, we are in sole possession of first place, the kids are rocking in SF, the “over the hill gang” (less Nomar) are rocking in SF, and yet the same few STILL find it necessary for the daily Pierre stinks, Grady stinks, Ned stinks, play the kids, dump the old guys, DFA Tomko DFA Saenz, yada yada yada, over and over and over again, every single day. You guys simply amaze me.




    You have no idea how much I agree with you 53!

    Then put your little hand in mine

    There ain’t no hill or mountain we can’t climb


    I got you babe

    I got you babe


    I’m going to wish Tomko to have a terrific outing today, not only to help us sweep the series, but to showcase himself hopefully for a departure from the Dodgers before the trade deadline. I don’t think we have any future together, and I hope that a deal is forthcoming very soon both for Tomko’s sake and especially for the Dodgers’.


    we all wish tomko a good outing…too bad noone has a fairy god mother to make it hoping we can jump ALL OVER lowry so tomko can have some room to breath, hopfully he can shine with the offense gone wild!!!


    Start of 2nd half, here’s my take. Despite,Kent/Nomar’s bloop hits, those two did NOT benefit from 4 days off. They
    will be the pathetic self ALL

    thru the year.Although most of

    the rest hit well (Happy), I

    have been a JP basher, but we

    ALL have to NOTE, that JP’s small ball style, is paying off. He IS making things happen.A hit here, a sacrafice there,a stolen base

    Whatever..JP is has become a sort of spark, of late. Let’s

    ALL give him some props. He is contributing, in his small little way and it’s paying dividends. Evert team needs, this type of player. Look at the big picture. JP is going to play a HUGE role, Mark my words. He cares


    YESTERDAY’S GAME was one of those games that teaches you to never say die. Their is nothing worst then to blow a big lead. Everybody including myself felt that PAIN of losing something you had in the palm of your hand. When you finally find it and shot the door and nail it down, Wow that great feeling of RELIEF. Here’s wishing TOMKO the best in another BIG game as we stand 1 full game ahead of the pack KEEP IT GOING BLUE CREW.


    Report from Vegas:

    Our boys continue to crush the ball. D. Young, LaRoche, and Hu all went deep.

    Hu went 3/5 with 3RBIS, Young went 2/4, also with a double, and 2 RBIS, LaRoche went 3/3 with two doubles on top of his bomb, with 2 RBIS…

    That is the **** i am talking about. Keep it up boys. Is Hu our shortstop of the future??? Im starting to seriously reconsider saying we all but have to offer Raffy a big 4-5 year deal after next season…


    It’s hard to imagine a leadoff man better than Raffy when he’s 100% like the last two months of last season. That’s what you would expect from a $13 mil. a year player. Unfortunately we haven’t seen anything like that so far this season. Assuming that he fully recovers from his ankle problem and delivers as expected all of next year, he will still have given us only about half the time of his contract at full 100% level. That’s not really great payback for a top salary at his position. I would certainly guard against extending Raffy’s contract prematurely like Colletti did unnecessarily with Kent. If Raffy performs like we would expect him the rest of this season and next season, there will be time to make the right offer to him. If Hu shows that he can continue to progress, that will be something to consider as well. Let’s also remember that if we insist on keeping and playing Pierre at all times, Pierre is probably better suited to be leadoff than is Raffy, so we would not be exactly without a leadoff man should Raffy go elsewhere after his contract.


    Hu’s hitting has been a big surprise this year. He’s always been looked at as a defensive prospect with limited offensive skills. Hopefully this first half surge is permanent.


    Unless Pierre’s OBP numbers improve as a leadoff hitter, I don’t want him batting leadoff.


    Yeah who wants a guy with a .347 obp and a .333 avg who is 6/1 in sb’s in July leading off while raffy continues to limp around the basepaths while leading off?….The sky is blue DA17….


    wow, your really gonna give me stats with about 10 games of data… every dog has his day. by the way… .347 OBP… thats like average at best.

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