DodgerTalk

I believe your points are well taken, Josh. I'll also repeat what I said in the previous thread:
..." Josh, you have every right, as well as the responsibility to defend your employer and co-employees. Despite what some people have posted here, you run the best blog at mlblogs, and I'm sure that the silent majority of us appreciate and support your efforts. It's a shame that a few hot-headed, rude, self-important, self-proclaimed experts feel the need to impose their "expertise" and vitriol on the rest of us. Keep up the good work..."

It's somewhat self-serving to assume yourself as part of the "silent majority", isn't it ebbetsfld? Kind of puts you in the "self-important" category yourself as far as I'm concerned.

"The only thing I've ever expected of any DodgerTalk host is that they present both sides of every argument rather than just let fans rail away (or praise) a decision, player, executive, etc."

Josh, what do you expect? It's a call-in talk show. Find me ANY talk show that's "fair and balanced." They don't exist. It's all about fanatics venting their frustrations or screaming their euphoria. Me thinkest though doth protesteth too much...

The only thing I've ever expected of any DodgerTalk host is that they present both sides of every argument rather than just let fans rail away (or praise) a decision, player, executive, etc.

Josh do u really think there is a need for an argument?

The only positive things that happened this year is the Youngsters! The talent they have shown this year...

When you look at this season it was all negative! and if the dodgers dont make it to the playoffs it would just add up to those negative things that has happened!

i don't know josh... that is his show... u shouldn't have done that...

i have nothing against you josh, im just saying what i think it is!

Go DODGERS!!! let's make a run for the playoffs!

Josh, you have every right to stick up and praise your employer to the very end and this blog is appreciated, but this is America dammit and Bob Harvey can voice his opinions and I might add, it's nice to hear the truth over the air waves about this team once in a while to remind us that we're not in some Soviet indoctrination camp with no news from the outside world. We're not stupid, Kevin Kennedy's not stupid, Mark Grace isn't stupid, Vin Scully's not stupid, but Grady Little?.

ebbetsfld

it's an opinion that some of the blogers here are saying!

they are not trying to be the GM of the dodgers!!! what they want, what we want is a good management!

it's been a roller coaster ride with the roller coster sinking down alot than going up!

if u can accept what's been happening this year that's you...

everyone here has the rayt to express their feelings...

"hot-headed, rude, self-important, self-proclaimed experts"

Those are the people who wants to win!!!

Hey Josh,
this is why the fans are so ticked off with Ned Colleti:

Ned Colleti's Signings for 2007

Tomko 3,700,000

Furcal 13,730,196

Pierre 7.5 million (He will cost 9 and 9.5 million in years 4 and 5)

Jason Schmidt: 15,703,946

Nomar Garciaparra 8,516,697

Esteban Loaiza 7,500,000 (9 million in 2008)

Randy Wolf 7,477,969

Luis Gonzalez 7,156,599

Mark Hendrickson 2,925,000

Mike Lieberthal 1,150,000

Brady Clark 3,900,000

Total Cost for 2007 = $82,185,407

The San Diego Padre's roster total payroll for 2007: $58,235,567

The Arizona Diamondback's roster total payroll for 2007: $52,067,546

Keep in mind that the total salary for the 2007 roster is 109,251,333. That does not include what Ned paid to Kansas city to take Odalis Perez. I didn't include David Wells or Roberto Hernandez because they are only getting paid minimum, since they were both released. The dodgers are paying most of Brady Clark's and Brett Tomko's salaries (the San Diego Padres only have to pay them the leauge minimum at a deferred rate). The 12 players I listed account for 75.2% of the total salary for 2007

Everyone is ticked off with Grady little because he benches our best hitter who is hitting .335 and who has the best homerun to at-bat ratio in Matt Kemp. Grady Little is more concerned with pleasing the veterans than winning.

Fire Ned Colleti!!!

Hire Logan White

Fire Grady Little!

i doubt any dodgers' managment would open themselves up to a real call-in show where they have to answer fans directly. but if they want to, i'd love to hear it.

like ANY large organization (so i don't blame the Dodgers in anyway), every question has to be filtered and a nice answer prepared. that's how it is. check out those "on-line" chats...

an unofficial dodger-related host actually makes sense since it will be less "PR" and more of an honest call-in show.

the Dodger's PR staff has their forums and we fans have call-in shows to explain why we are all better managers and GMs than anyone else in the world...lol

right on i_thinkblue!

One of the things that Harvey pointed out is that the LA media has done a very poor (or nonexistent) job of covering the issues brought up during Dodger talk. Grady is given this blanket of acceptance even though he has done very little to earn it. Maybe its just the LA media not caring about the Dodgers, I don't know, but Dodger Talk is one of the few forums where Grady's inadequecies are addressed. In just yesterdays game, did anyone question Liebs pinch hitting or why Kemp has sat two days in a row? No. I don't know why we're supposed to blindly accept everything Grady has done. Is 3 and done in the playoffs last year a success? This is Los Angeles, if we can't give starting position to rookies (god forbid!) if we have to spend millions on free agent veterans who have "been there", if we can't go with a youth movement cause we're in a big market, then we can't blindly support an incompetent manager. Every other big market manager has to face crisitism from the media, but not Grady in LA for some reason. More than that, when he rarely is questioned, he often doesn't even give an explanation as to why he does the things he does. And wouldn't it be more "fair and balanced" if there was more places where a multitude of opinions are expressed, such as Dodgers talk?

excellent post jspelk2

DODGER BLOGGERS UNITE!

I posted something that got lost at the bottom of the first of 2 threads that ran here a few days ago.

I think it bears repeating in light of ebbetsfield comments.

My post was in response to a POST BY AIEA6 which read in part,"How egocentric do some of you think you are to believe that you have the power to influence these management decisions, i.e., firing Grady Little, or Ned Colletti, or whoever else you feel are not doing what you (not the Dodgers) want to see.

MY RESPONSE:

aiea6 -- I don't think any of us is egotistic enough to think that individually we could influence management decisions. But I do believe that hundreds of thousands of loyal Dodger fans COLLECTIVELY can and should have an effect on Dodger management.

Remember, WE ARE THE CUSTOMER. The old saying says,"The customer is always right." And when this many customers are dissatisfied with a product, or a feature of that product, a good business responds. Here, many, many customers/Dodgers fans are expressing a grievance -- the performance of Grady Little. If the company/Dodgers choses not to make changes based on our grievances, they would be wise to concede that our opinions have some value and at least justify to us customers/fans the reasons they chose not to do so rather than to simply ignore us.

I don't expect any action on this front until after the season, but I do expect Ned to in some way address the situation after the season closes.

Also, remember that baseball holds a special position in American culture as a "Public Trust". This is both a sociological position, and a legal one. It is the reason, for instance, that baseball is exempt from Anti-Trust laws and why Chavez Ravine was handed over to the Dodgers for next-to-nothing (maybe nothing, I'm not 100% clear on those facts).

So, YES. DODGERS MANAGEMENT HAS A CIVIC DUTY AND A BUSINESS RESPONSIBILITY TO RESPOND TO FAN WISHES.

Jxpelk2, I concur everything you say. What frustrates me so much, is that Logan White had everything ready and set for Ned Colleti and Grady Little, but it's not being used.

I'm not particularly down on Ned. I certainly don't agree with all the moves he has made, but I do like what appears to be his philosophy -- Give the team a chance to win NOW, while at the same time preparing for the GLORIOUS ERA that is imminent due to excellent minor league/draft management of the last several years.

That said, if Ned choses to take a hard line on keeping Grady, I wont cry a lot of tears if Ned gets the boot too.

nice posts martinloneykemp,
I concur.

Well isn't A. Martinez the bridge between KFWB and the Dodgers? He used to host Dodger Talk and Bob Harvey or was it Bill did it on the weekend. Whether we critique or praise, we are all Dodger fans with a deep passion for the team. Some of us just show our frustration in different ways. -Emma

I don't want to get into a debate, but I do want to clarify my position:
1) I, too, think Grady is not the man for the job

2) I'm not sure about Ned, but will give him the benefit of the doubt

3) I think all the posts here are justified and passionate...my beef is with the attitude some of us (not you!!!)express. There is no reason for us to be anything but gentlemen (and ladies)!

4) Personally, I've followed the Dodgers faithfully since 1948 (age 5) and have experienced all of the highs and lows, and believe me the present management is a vast improvement over Murdoch and friends!

5) At this point, we have to play with the cards we've been dealt, and the odds are against us. But hope springs eternal and I'd really rather not have to repeat those anguishing words from yesteryear, "Wait 'til next year". Let's put it together, pull together, worry about management after we're eliminated and KICK THE ROCKIES WHERE IT HURTS!

A. Martinez is lame.

Exhibit A - The "x-ray" lenses comment to Loney and Loney's look of annoyance...lol

that's why i don't like having an official PR person hosting shows. that's like state-media. you know, the ones in the communist countries?

i prefer my media hiding behind the banner of free-speech but really controlled by media conglomerates and answering to corporations...

ebbets, I echo your sentiments for the most part except we're not really playing the cards we've been dealt. There's an ace in our hand that sat 2 of 3 games against our division leader who is one of the top hitters in the LEAGUE with a minimun of 250 ab's.

thinkblue

Like Plashke?

I beg to differ with you messagebear. I believe that the direction that Inside the Dodgers took this year caused far more people to leave this blog than those who post here day after day.

If there is anyone in the (what you call) "self-important" category, it would be the select group of posters who go into their daily feeding frenzy off each other's daily Dodger bashings (and the bashing of those who disagree with them).

We are all aware of the short comings and the weaknesses of the 2007 Dodgers, and of the poor decisions made over the course of the season. But it is what it is.

If this season has shown us nothing else, it has certainly shown us that our future is VERY bright.

Please remember that, regardless of the differences in all of our opinions, we are all Dodger fans and we express our opinions differently.

By the way, how'd you like my throw yesterday when I threw back Chris Snyder's home run ball? I only wish that I had a strong enough arm for my throw to beat him to third base. I did make him look, though - Hahaha!

GO DODGERS!

i_thinkblue,

It was Adrian Garcia who made that lame x-ray lenses comment, not A. Martinez.

The problem I have with Ned (and Grady really) is that he has a specific philosophy that won't change. He values the wrong things in players like character over talent and experience over talent. These are ideas that aren't going to go away as his tenior progresses. He gets mininmal credit from me for not trading the kids but it is clearly evident from his free agent choices that he did not trust them to have any kids of impact this year and about that he was very wrong. He has not sacrificed the future for the present but he has also laid down roadblocks at certain positions that are not that easily removed. He probably (and who knows to what extent) has limited what the team can do financially in the offseason by spending lavishly on mediocre players.

thanks t-bolt...

then i must apologize to A. Martinez. I should know better, cause he's the one who does the in-game fan trivia for coke prizes...and that is NO WAY lame...

Hehe, that's lame too.

Check out the latest "article" on the home page - more bs from our buddy Gonzo.

Hey Josh, but you didn't explain what happened yesterday. Is it true what Bob said ? That you called during a commercial break and told him that Dodger talk was an "Embarrasement" ? If you did do that, I think it was wrong in your part. Bob actually does a good job in talking about the Dodgers. Just because he is not kissing anyone's behind does not mean he is not a good host. What's funny is that almost all the callers agree with him, so obviously most fans agree that the Dodger management is doing a terrible job. Bob has a right to say what he wants and for you to tell him what to do is wrong.

Next year, the Dodgers might go to a new station. Does this mean, the Dodgers will try to choose a station that will blindly say good things about the Dodgers ? Look at the L.A. Lakers, they are at KLAC 570 am and they do a great job covering the Lakers. The last couple of years, it has been a nightmare for the organization and they talk about it openly. To be honest, they talk to much Lakers and I hate it. But if you are a big Lakers fan, then you love it. Being a big Dodger fan, I want them to find a station where you can get that kind of coverage.

Any update on the radio status for next year ?

fansince-

I saw that bud. Nice throw.

You sure catch a lot of those. How many is that? I know you got Olmedo's early this season before the premier.

"Playing long enough, you can see when the rope is slipping away. Guys start pressing and trying to do too much," said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs. "That's where you hope that experience that guys have takes over, because those guys have been there before and learned from it. That's what carries a team down the stretch."

hahahahahahahahaha.....

I will take Kemp and Ethier over gonzo the rest of the way...this year and for the next 10.

Gonzo & Nomar will carry us now down the stretch? i guess so, since they've been rested up from NOT CARRYING us during the season like Loney, Martin, Kemp, Ethier, Bills, Broxton, Saito...those novices.

Well then Maybe Mr. McCourt shouldn't have fired (or not rehired) a loyal dodger baseball guy in Ross Porter? Mr Dodgertalk himself.

You see when you let go of or allow some 75 to 100 loyal lifetime dodger employees, this kind of thing happens.

But really all Josh is asking for his fair coverage and for all voices to be heard and that's how it should be. So I have one question for Mr. McCourt for ya Josh...

Were our expectations for 2007 met?

--

LOS ANGELES - Paul DePodesta was fired as general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers on Saturday.

Team owner Frank McCourt cited the team's lack of success as the reason DePodesta was let go.

"Our high expectations were not met," McCourt said.

OMG this article is such a joke:

But there's also a lot of balancing to do, because the Dodgers are one of the youngest teams in baseball.

Does this guy even know how to COUNT? The Dodgers are one of the OLDEST teams in baseball. Their average age is OLDER than the GIANTS thanks to a certain crusty old fellows. What is this guy smoking?

junger, I can't wait to read that again, but insert "Ned colleti" instead of "paul DePodesta."

or do we not expect to make the playoffs anymore? after all our expectations werent met in 05 when we lost this year equivelent to furcal, saito and kent out for the year and that year we didnt have loney, kent, abreau in others to fill up when veterans got hurt or got demoted.

look it up here if you don't believe me. every teams average age:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters?sortColumn=average_age

i meant to say:

year we didnt have loney, kemp, abreau and others to fill up the roster when veterans got hurt or got demoted.

"said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs."

Who wouldn't want that kind of experience and leadership?

I believe we all have a right to vent our frustration with a "product" that isn't working. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have no problem with Ned Colletti, he's made mistakes but so has every GM, the problem is Grady. You cannot put the same emphasis on the mistakes of a GM compared to those of a manager. A GM signs a guy who is coming off a season where he hit .300 and had 30 HR and drove in 110 runs (examples) now you sign him for 4 yrs at 34 million bucks. When he signs with your team, everybody is happy with the GM, now the guy comes here and he hits 260 hits 18 HR and drives in 75 runs, well he's a bust and the GM is to blame. Why? You can't predict success, now if the manager has a guy who is hitting .300 and has 10 HR's in the last 25 games and he benches him to play a guy hitting 250 and 8 HR's total, different story. If the manager refuses to bunt runners into scoring position, then you are impeding success. Based on this, I believe that we give Ned Colletti the benefit of the doubt, but Grady Little, I just don't understand what he's doing. In the words of Mark Grace "he may know more about baseball and managing a team than me, but, wow..."

nkirby4,

It was only my second live homerun ball ever, with the Saenz HR ball being my first (thanks for remembering). I have caught hundreds during BP, but these are my only two live game homerun balls.

What is funny about it is that I swore to myself many years ago that I would NEVER throw back an opposing team’s homerun ball. It is a stupid thing to do. Nobody ever throws back an opposing team’s foul balls, so why on earth would they throw back a homerun ball? After all, you are lucky to even GET a homerun ball. Well, as you can see in the video clip, I couldn’t throw that ball back fast enough. Although I was angry Snyder for his cheap, bounced-off-the-wall homerun, I was even angrier at Loaiza for walking the two guys in front of Snyder. Four of the D-backs six total runs were the result of walks and that su cks!

GO DODGERS!

A GM signs a guy who is coming off a season where he hit .300 and had 30 HR and drove in 110 runs (examples) now you sign him for 4 yrs at 34 million bucks. When he signs with your team, everybody is happy with the GM, now the guy comes here and he hits 260 hits 18 HR and drives in 75 runs, well he's a bust and the GM is to blame.

--

But you can blame the GM if they didnt bring that guy in and try, when all of BASEBALL knew in October of last year that it was THAT exactly what would keep the dodgers from making the playoffs this year if they didnt go out and get a bat like that.

earlier this year, i caught Glaus's HR which was my first ever...and after a second, I threw it back. it one-hopped and luckily furcal turned around and caught or it would have hit him in the back :(

i've always wanted to try and throw it back in time so the player would see it before he got to third.

but, i'm not keeping a HR unless its a Dodger or a HOF guy like Pujols, A-Rod, Griffey, etc...

fansince-

You threw that thing back before I knew it was over the wall. Great job. Looked like you knew it was going back before you caught it.

So Bob Harvey goes on the air and publicly wonders why Grady Little rested Martin in a crucial game the day before an off day, and why Kemp was benched for 2 days before an off day -- somethingall the fans are wondering as well -- and the Dodgers give him **** for it? Give me a break.

Wow...nice article...they got quotes from Gonzo, Nomar, and frickin' Blowberto. Guess Grady is planning on letting Martin catch both games tomorrow with the 2 days off.

Fire Grady Little!

Josh,
Bob Harvey says in public what quite a few fans think in private or on message boards. We're season ticket holders for over 7 years and every year I've become more and more disgusted by how this teams is perceived to be run, the product that is provided, and the price at which this comes to the fans.

I personally don't like the management style that Grady seems to put on the field. Perhaps I'm missing something behind the scenes, but the team often seems to take on Grady's laid back, "We'll get them tomorrow" attitude. It only seems as though it's been the last few games where Grady has finally said it's now or never.

He seems to be a players manager. That's great if you're trying to win citizen of the year award, but he's not. It just seems as though he's catering to the egos of some very talented and some lesser talented ML baseball players. His statement last weekend about pulling Penny with 82 pitches seemed to be a glimpse into his bizarre, player / stat driven reasoning. "He was pitching far too good a game to get in position to lose a game right there.". That's a bunch of garbage. It's the end of the season. That's your Cy Young candidate starter and he's well under his normal pitch count. Why change the game's course at this point? That was Penny's game to win or lose at that point, but to say he didn't deserve to lose it because he pitched so well prior to that point, tells me that Grady felt as though some deserved to lose the game. That's a mental miscue and a submlinal message sent.

So in Penny's next start, Grady sticks with him with 104 pitches through 4 innings. Again he hits for himself, and is brought out for the 5th, where Penny promptly gives up the lead. If not for the heroics of the offense in the bottom of the 5th, Penny gets a loss. Would Grady have considered that a deserved loss? Shouldn't he have come out and said that Penny deserved to lose that game. I mean it's the same thing. It worked out, but it seems that Grady is often bailed out by something working out, but it honestly made no sense to leave Penny in the game, other than to give Penny a shot at a decision, which is what I'm certain Little was doing.

Josh, I'm sure you know Grady on a personal level, but from an external point of view, the man seems completely lost and clueless. I could care less if Brad Penny gets a loss or a win. He should give a **** as to whether the team gets a win. Grady just seems so incredibly random with so many decisions and as a fan, it's aggravating.

Furthermore, another indicator that there is some sort of motivational issue with the Dodgers, and this goes back several years, is the record against the Padres. Now they seem to have average out a little this season, but in the past, the Dodgers have been beat by inferior Padres teams with regularity. Baseball is a mental game, and motivation can sway a game considerably. The Dodgers have not put management and players into place that seem to have a motivational drive. Perhaps it's a side effect of high priced players that only care about their careers, or a lack of cohesive years together for players, but it just can't be a coincidence that the Dodgers get their butts handed to them every season by the Padres.

All that said, I personally feel as though Grady lacks the personality and drive to be a ML manager. It just appears as though the players play down to his personality, dead and without fire or inspiration. Again, I know you know him personally, but from the exterior, this is how he appears to many. The "we'll get them tomorrow" attitude is bs for guys playing at this level. You tell little leaguers that, not highly paid professionals. Sure you put every loss behind you, but there are better ways to instill a killer / winning mentality.

Josh:
My greatest hint that it is just not the Dodger Talk guy that feels this way and it is not just all of the bloggers etc is Vin Scully. I have never heard him in 31 years of listening to the Dodgers be as critical of Dodger management as I have this year. He has mentioned repeatedly how well the Dodgers would be doing in the standings if James Loney had been with the team all year. he points out the stats and states how he can't beleive that he was sent down. Vin has made several other small jabs at management over the past month and I think even the most consumate professional in the game (Vin Scully) is frustrated at watching what is a very talented team be so mismanaged. I am waiting for you to go on the air with Vin and tell him not to say these things. By the way guys, just a guess but with all of us being so critical, I would guess that this blog will disappear before next season.

You can listen to yesterday's dodgertalk at kfwb's dodgers section for free.

Oh and after 7 years with season tickets, I have only had the opportunity to see 3 playoff games at Dodger stadium, one of which was a win. But the cost of my tickets have doubled and the cost of parking has doubled, and I'm sure consessions have increased in a similar fashion.

So spin that PR ****. The only saving grace is ticket exchange, but I suspect tickets will go up another 20-30% next season and Frankie will justify the rising cost of sewage disposal or something along those lines.

I realize that I have the right to stop following the team (which this year has been minimized compared to other years), but I've grown up following the Dodgers and I love baseball, but what's being sold to me right now is not the Dodgers and is not baseball. It's the management / babysitting of a bunch of overpaid athletes. As a fan, I could care less about their win / loss records. I still remember Penny throwing a complete fit for being taken out of a game in AZ after he just gave up 6 straight hits and was about to surrender the lead. He threw a fit because he wasn't going to get a decision in that game. Seems like his previous trantrums have worked out for him, Grady is well conditioned and trained now.

Cosmow & Blonde:

You guys are hitting the nail right on the head. Keep it up!

please, i implore everyone to read the "vets leading the stretch run piece" Its complete garbage. For the gazillionth time, WITHOUT THE YOUNG KIDS WE WOULD BE WORSE THAN THE GIANTS.

I'll put in my Australian perspective on the Dodger Talk programme. Up front I must say I've been in the Australian media for over 40 years and I listen to Dodger Talk albeit after it has been archieved.

It appears to me to be a fan driven sports talk show and if Dodger management does not like it then start a show of your own. Organisational Radio is always biased toward itself and there is never a need to ring the station during a commercial break to complain. Just make sure the script is prepared well in advance for all your callers.

Josh, as the PR Man for the Dodgers is obligated to protect Dodger Management (he'd soon be out of a job if he didn't) but if this blog is to continue then he has to learn to take the good with the bad.

BTW I think "Dodger Talk" is outstanding sports radio.

To hear some people talk, multitudes of fans have left this forum this year because of the critical tone that this blog has assumed. Could it be that the product on the field and its management have colored the tone of the comments on this blog, as well as the Talk Show that is being discussed today. I think so. I'm not condoning personal attacks on people who express a different point of view, but I do sense and personally feel the frustration and even a sense of betrayal by this management of expectations that we rightly held at the beginning of this season. Both Colletti and Grady have failed to meet the expectations of the fans for this team, and unless Mr. McCourt chooses to lower the bar on his own expectations, he'll do what's right for the fans and for the future of the Dodgers and FIRE BOTH COLLETTI AND GRADY.

Yeah totally. First we get the Plascke article which says well Grady has done a great job, I will cover his butt because he covered mine.

Now this..if the dodgers worked as hard at winning as they do at covering up why they can't win, maybe we would be somewhere.

All year management has done nothing but smear the kids.

Where is the article today talking about Jeff Kents poor base running?

If not for Kemp, Martin, Loney and Billingsley- the dodgers best OF, best SP, team leader and best infielder, yeah 4th place for sure.

Colleti and Little lovers, read this:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7235996

Hey guys,
You gotta read this in the daily news:

http://www.dailynews.com/dodgers/ci_6913861

Josh, I posted this in the last blog and I'm posting it again here.

Granted, the following is just one columnist's opinion, but "holy cow" from the L.A. Daily News' Paul Oberjuerge:

"The Dodgers have an unhappy clubhouse.

"They are a team in only one sense: They wear the same uniform. (At least until the next clubhouse-churning trade.)

"The Dodgers' 2007 motto might as well be: "All for one and none for all." It's every man for himself.

"All you need do is spend a few hours in the dismal and dreary cellblock that is the Dodgers' clubhouse to pick up the energy-sapping vibe.

"Is there any team with a winning record in baseball that seems to enjoy itself less than the Dodgers?

"Any team with less apparent chemistry or camaraderie?

"Any team where surliness is more readily accepted as acceptable behavior? Any team with less clubhouse leadership?

..."The team's natural leaders, veterans Jeff Kent and Nomar Garciaparra, are reticent to a fault. Maybe you get that way when you're in the latter stages of careers and feel as if speaking up brings nothing but trouble. (Remember Kent and his abortive 2005 attempt to straighten out Milton Bradley?)

"Some of the self-impressed kids have heads rapidly outgrowing their ball caps. Which rankles some veterans. Who are considered irrelevant by some kids.

"And if they all wanted to talk about it, not that they really do, serious issues of language arise in a clubhouse where English, Spanish, Japanese and Cantonese are native tongues.

"And, anyway, perhaps all they might agree on is this: They have little respect for management."

please, i implore everyone to read the "vets leading the stretch run piece" Its complete garbage. For the gazillionth time, WITHOUT THE YOUNG KIDS WE WOULD BE WORSE THAN THE GIANTS.

Posted by: jspelk2@uic.edu | September 17, 2007 02:53 PM

You got that right. Call it propaganda, putting a spin on what's happening, or whatever, it's still a crock!

As far as most of the previous postings..WOW!

I haven't been blogging here all that long, but I've been a life long fan of this team, no matter where I live. These are by far the most passionate, intelligent, and insightful views I've seen to date without all the nasty mud slinging, name calling, or just getting too carried away-for the most part. From what I've read today, everyone has covered every aspect of the team, and management I would care to discuss, or 'vent' on the way this season is shaping up. Everyone has covered all the bases so to speak.

Great postings Dodger fans!!!

We still got a chance for a wild card-barely, but I'm not giving up just yet!

GO DODGERS!!!

Quoting the last sentence from the Daily News article noted above:

"and let Ned Colletti take another whack at team chemistry during the coming offseason."

Please, oh please don't let that happen. I'd rather have Logan White in charge trying to do that for next year.

FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY.

Re: Chemistry

From what I've noticed, the younger guys seem to have pretty good chemistry (Ethier, Martin, Loney, Kemp, etc...) with chest bumping and leaping high fives. The wet blanket "veterans" are blocking them and so the clubhouse is divided understandably.

I plan on attending Saturday's and Sunday's game against the DBacks in Phoenix this coming weekend. I hope that by then we are not just playing out the season, it would be a huge disappointment to go into Chase and have all the DBack fans remind me how they're in and we're not. The problem I have is not with the DBacks making the post season, it's that they got there with a lesser team than us. The DBacks have good young talent, but not as good as ours. I would take Kemp, Loney, Martin, Ethier and LaRoche over Young, Drew, Montero, Reynolds and Upton any day of the week. The difference is that Bob Melvin plays his young guys with no regard to what the veterans may feel is disrespect. When they brought up young Mark Reynolds he promptly started hitting like crazy and hit 4 home runs in his first 4 games, Chad Tracy now watches him from the bench. Chris Young is hitting .233, but Melvin stayed with him and he has 30 HR's and 61 RBI's out batting mostly in the leadoff spot. I find it disappointing that our young guys don't have that kind of leeway because of Gonzo and Pierre and Nomar. It will be very disappointing to be left out of the post season because it will lead to another winter of discontent and what should have been. If we miss the playoffs where is the improvement going to come from? Free agent signings, trades? No need, the talent is in house, the problem is in management, field management, lack of leadership lack of vision, the problem is Grady Little and no one in house sees it. It is very sad that Frank McCourt has done such wonderful things for this organization and the city of Los Angeles, I consider him to be a very good owner, but he can't see past his own shadow to realize that the problem sits within his sights.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

If anyone missed yesterday's DodgerTalk on KFWB, please check it out at kfwb.com and hear for yourself Bob Harvey's comments regarding Josh and the Dodgers PR spin.

Josh-

You sound like a stand-up guy, and I really appreciate the hard work you've done on the blog and so on. And I agree that people on this blog are getting ridiculous with the personal attacks. That said, I have to say that I think you're completely off the boat on this Dodger Talk issue. I agree with the other bloggers that Dodger Talk has been one of the few (if not only) sources for unvarnished opinions about the Dodger management. If you're going to provide a means for fans to call in, I don't think it's your or management's place to try and censor that talk. The fact is that the VAST majority of Dodger fans on this blog, the fan board, and otherwise believe the Grady (while a very good player's manager) is a horrible in-game manager and that Ned and Grady place far too much emphasis on veterans just because they're veterans.

If Bob Harvey is only cherry-picking fans with negative comments, that's one thing. But that's simply not the case.

Finally, if the Dodgers want to have a chance to respond to Bob Harvey's criticisms, maybe it should take the chance to do that during the post-game interview and Dodger web stories. Instead, when tough game decision questions are asked during post-game interviews, Grady gives us cryptic responses like "Well, you guys don't know what's going on behind the scenes." It's obvious that management has heard our concerns, and simply disagrees. At least give us our chance to vent our concerns.

i thought gonzo is a great club house guy?

"Playing long enough, you can see when the rope is slipping away. Guys start pressing and trying to do too much," said Gonzalez, who was eliminated from the playoffs last season in September as a member of the D-backs. "That's where you hope that experience that guys have takes over, because those guys have been there before and learned from it. That's what carries a team down the stretch."

sounds to me like he is doing everything to be notice!

We are still in the hunt coz of the kids! everyone knows that! why would he say things like that...!

all in all! i guess i can say that he is not a great club house guy!

Thank god for Loney's expierence.

Where would he be without it?

Matt Kemp would hit .347 if he just had a little more expierence. If he had been there before he may have been allowed to play.

Fansince53,

I said to my family that I would have done exactly what you did. Thank you for helping me visualize the disgust I was feeling after those two walks and the line drive off the top of the wall. You throwing it back on the field was like me throwing up at our management and the game.

Billingsley gets rallied for two many pitches thrown.

Grady pointed it out on Friday.

If he had been more veteranish he could have thrown 104 pitches in 4 innings like Penny. I's just that he is not veteran enough.

Man you guys are just so negative on here I don't even want to read the posts anymore.. Yes it's been a tough year, but we are still in the race! With all the injuries we've had, to still be alive with a couple of weeks left is a decent accomplishment. Yes, I'd like to be in first place... but hey we could be fans of the Devil Rays or Royals or some other perenial doormat that never goes anywhere. I think its a mistake to fire management at this point. The Dodgers need some stability and constantly firing the GM and Manager every couple of years is a terrible way to go. Most of you want to turn this team over to someone else with no experience of running a club... that doesn't really work for me.. I'd like to let these guys have at least another year.. It's easy to sit back and slam the team on message boards but when you are actualy making the decisions and dealing with the players on a daily basis I'm sure its much more complicated.

As for Dodger Talk.. personaly I miss the way the show was years ago when Rick Monday and Ross Porter did the show.. thats the way the show should be.. not the snarky slam fest it is today.

I'm sure it was that veteran experience that caused Jeff Kent to get thrown out on the basepaths, down two runs with two outs and THE BASE AHEAD OF HIM OCCUPIED.

Gonzo is just trying to toot his own horn with that statement. The young guns have carried this team lately more than him. He's far from consistent. He has one decent game, and then doesn't do squat for the next few. He just doesn't fit here being a the one dimensional player he is. His fielding, and arm are horrendous. Let him go to the AL where he belongs. Thankfully he won't be back in Dodger Blue next year. Adios!!

Just like Kemp gets reprimanded in the paper every time he makes a baserunning mistake, but "vets" like Kent get a free pass.

jjriley, gonzo played fairly well the first half of the season and has had a few good games recently... yes he had a prolonged slump in the second half, but he certainly has helped us win games and he doesn't deserve the animosity from you.

spanner is Grady Little

hey spanner (who doesn't want to blame management)

Why don't you ask management where Ross Porter is then?

There are plenty of candidates for both GM and Manager with enough experience and "NEWSFLASH", this is LOS ANGELES and that's why we demand better.

I wasn't around here for Sunday's game, but I was listening to it on the radio and when Lieberthal came up in the fifth with two on and no out (and because I hate bunting, especially that early in the game), I was yelling at Grady that he should be PHing for BOTH Lieberthal and Loaiza with left-hand hitters like Sweeney and Young - at least force Bob Melvin to consider if he's changing pitchers or not - and sending in Moeller to catch if Russell Martin is going to continue to have the day off.

Josh-
Die-hard fan since 1980. Regular lurker here and poster at Dodger Thoughts. Count me in the camp that yesterday's Dodger Talk was the best I've heard all year. Please don't fault Bob Harvey for attempting to deliver an honest and informed assessment of the team. The host of Dodger Talk is not there to defend the team and recite the press notes. There's nothing mean-sprited or excessively negative about yesterday's show. I believe the team has left 5-6 wins on the table this year through game strategy and more importantly roster management. I appreciate a host who might share that point of view and doesn't feel obligated to sugar-coat his opinions. Please don't deliver a whitehouse spin version of Dodger Talk in 2008! Thank you. - Brian Greene

From Spanner ..

As for Dodger Talk.. personaly I miss the way the show was years ago when Rick Monday and Ross Porter did the show.. thats the way the show should be.. not the snarky slam fest it is today.

I guess then that you like Fox News and it's biased look at the world. Dodger talk is outstanding radio. Just because it doen't toe the party line doesn't make it bad. I appreciate the unbiased look at Dodger baseball and as a broacaster myself I applaud Bob Harvey for not being "just another Organisational mouthpiece."

The last time KC won a WS was 3 years before we last one won. So we pretty much already are.

There are fine candidates for GM within the organization. Kim Ng, for example. I'd hazard a guess she'd listen to the good talent evaluators more than Ned does, and ask for some objective evidence that players, particular "proven veterans" have enough left to justify signing them, e.g., Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez.

This blog and DodgerTalk are pretty similar. If you sift through the junk you'll find some really intelligent baseball fans. Problem is for every Jungar there are 15 guys like DieHardBlu.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. This organization isn't as incompetent as most bloggers and DodgerTalkers believe but the competency level isn't near what Josh portrays.

Scott, I didn't say you can't disagree with management.. its the tone of hostility towards them that bothers me. It seems everyone here is in love with Logan White.. I'd rather keep the current guys in place than turn the team over to him..

As for Ross... well... I'd certainly rather he still be here than Charley Steiner.. when Steiner and Rick get off on one of their idiotic tangents its a little hard to listen to... but it could be worse... we could still have geoff witcher doing dodger talk.. he was terrible..

rodmky,
My point was that Dodger Talk used to be a place where fans could call in and talk to someone with at least some connection to the team.. where you could disagree and have discussions... but they could give you some inside scoop.. Harvey is basicaly just some random guy and "A Martinez" is pretty useless.

spanner, what is your objection to Logan White? I don't see him as an ideal GM because his forte is talent evaluation (unbelieveable draft dividends so far, eh?), but the GM job is largely business, thus my suggestion of Kim Ng earlier. Still, White is extremely valuable and his skills need to be kept (and maximized by actually ponying up a couple more bucks to sign the draftees!)

cosmow

Thanks for that great article..couldn't have said it better myself..By the way, I think Bob Harvey is great..I am a constant caller into him and he is a gentleman with great baseball views in my opinion...Anyway, he agreed with me about 2months ago when I said, "Ned lost this season for the Dodgers in the off season"..I still believe that with the moves he made..Thought Schmidt was a bad signing before he was hurt..among others...and Grady will never be capable of leading the Dodgers to anything but mediocrity...and I, for one, CAN'T STAND THAT!!!

jjriley, gonzo played fairly well the first half of the season and has had a few good games recently... yes he had a prolonged slump in the second half, but he certainly has helped us win games and he doesn't deserve the animosity from you.

Posted by: spanner@aol.com | September 17, 2007 04:11 PM

spanner Think rationally here. Gonzo gas contributed some, I admit, but what he's spewing to the press now is just sour grapes. He needs to keep his mouth shut, and do his job, He's doing more harm than good to the team spilling that **** to the press. How do you think his younger teammates who've done more for the team feel about his so called leadership now?

Geez spanner I wonder why everyone here is in love with Logan White. Maybe it's because he netted us the talents of : James Loney, Chad Billingsley, Matt Kemp, Jonathan Broxton, Delwyn Young, Andy laRoche. And we're still waiting to see the highly touted talents of Clayton Kershaw, james McDonald.

Meanwhile Ned Colleti has brought in the old veterans: Esteban Loaiza, Mark hendrickson, Roberto Hernandez, Jason Schmidt, Mike Lieberthal, Brett Tomko, Juan Pierre, Luis Gonzalez.

That is why many of us, well-informed baseball fans are in love with Logan White and why we want ned Colleti canned.

How about completely revamping Dodger Talk to be the fan conduit straight into the post-game press conference? Calls are already screened; let the "host" relay the most intelligent questions straight to Grady or whoever is at the podium. Now THAT could be good radio!

Josh,

If you read this blog, please tell Dodger management to do everything they can to keep Logan White...whether that means a promotion, raise, or both...he is the one part of management we can't afford to lose...

Thank you.

Then I suggest Spanner that the Dodgers buy a radio station or radio show and do just as you outlined. It wouldn't be a "true" sports talk show but at least Josh wouldn't be ringing in to tell them how to run the show. Josh's actions were far from being professional.

old fogey,

Just how many unfavourable calls would you think would get through? That my friend is NOT Radio.

Colletti himself called Gonzalez "the bridge to Kemp". Well Kemp is here and he is ready (2007: .337/.374/.528 129 OPS+) so the bridge's value has been realize. Time for Luis to fade into the AL DH sunset.

rodmky - good point, since "Dodger Talk" is still on the official Dodger station. And any rival sports radio station would fear being blackballed by the Dodgers if they tried that tactic.

Still, as a listener, I'd rather hear the press conference live on the radio after the game, followed by a commentator such as Bob Harvey, where he and the callers could comment directly on what was just heard. This could so much more in the moment than it is.

thunderbolt, his job was to oversee the scouting people.. and you need to sign veterans.. you can't just sign kids... for every James Loney, you get a Billy Ashley or a Karim Garcia.. guys that don't quite work out. Scouting rookies and dealing with other GMS on trades and player signings are two different things..

I don't think anyone could have expected Schmidt would get hurt.. And I personaly think that Pierre has done the job he was signed for.. he gets on base, he steals bases, he is a good signing.. Lieberthal and Hendrickson have also done well as back up catcher and midle reliever, Hendy struggled as a starter but has been great in the bullpen. Gonzo has had his moments as well... Sure Hernandez and Tomko and so far Loiaza didn't work out but Loiaza may be better next season when he is fully healthy so its too early to say on that one.

Unfortunately all I can access in Australia is the archived verson of Dodger talk and I can't access the post game press conference but your idea has merit.

spanner,

Have Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, and Broxton worked out like Billy Ashley or Karim Garcia? How did Colleti not expect jason Schmidt to not be hurt? His velocity has been declining for the past two years and, why would anybody in their right mind sign a 34 year old power pitcher to a 3 year 51 million dollar contract?

"Sure Hernandez and Tomko and so far Loiaza didn't work out but Loiaza may be better next season when he is fully healthy so its too early to say on that one."

Yeah, well, that's $13.3 million that you're nonchalantly saying hasn't worked.

The Dodgers cannot afford to lose Logan White. They cannot afford to keep Ned Colletti (and by extension, Grady Little).

Let's do what we can to influence McCourt:

http://promoteloganwhite.wordpress.com/

"And I personaly think that Pierre has done the job he was signed for.. he gets on base, he steals bases, he is a good signing.. "

Posted by: spanner@aol.com | September 17, 2007 04:36 PM

i agree with you!

but don't you think it makes more sense if he signed Carlos Lee?

or wait for another year while giving the youngters the time to mature and sign Jones or Hunter?

I am still confused about what happened on DodgerTalk and what was said. I can't get the thing to play on-line--if anyone can post a transcript, that would be cool. I would not be surprised if Josh called Bob Harvey and asked basically what he stated in this blog, or if Bob mentioned it on the show.

Jungar was right to point out that there is irony here because the Dodgers did not renew Ross Porter, who did a great job with knowing incredible amounts about the team and being very balanced. It was a harsh point, but needed to be made.

That said, I think Bob Harvey is one of the best DodgerTalk hosts I remember. There have been so many years where the ho