You've got to be kidding me…

Guess who is taking batting practice out on the field now, on an off day, before 10 a.m.???

Yep, it’s Manny Ramirez, whose dramatic homer last night was easily one of the coolest things I’ve ever witnessed as a Dodger fan. And while my prediction was that it would be a pinch-hit, walk-off homer (see the post below), there’s no way anyone could have predicted what truly happened last night. A True Mannywood Story is the headline on, which is perfect!

It was a special moment that’s already being compared to Kirk Gibson’s homer by fans and media alike, though obviously this one didn’t come in the World Series so it’s hard to lump them together. But given that Manny had been hurt the night before, wasn’t expected to play, and hadn’t taken BP or even taken a swing off the tee, what he did last night on his only swing of the evening was nothing short of magical. When he emerged from the dugout to pinch-hit, I turned to someone in my office and said, “this must have been what it felt like when Gibby was coming up.” Little did I know that he’d then homer and send this place into pandemonium and help the Dodgers move 27 games above .500 for the first time since the end of that ’88 season.

If you were here, and you want a memorable keepsake (in addition to the bobblehead), come back out on Aug. 5 for the Mannywood poster which will commemorate last night’s game. In fact, if you weren’t here, that’s all the more reason to be here for that game…this was one night to remember.


  1. thinkingblue

    JOSH – last nights GRAND SLAM will go down in HISTORY. It will be one of the top highlights for the 2009 season. I’m glad they brought him out. Chills were running up and down my back and OMG it was just wonderful…seeing how all the fans jumped up and screamed when he walked out and to add the loud ROAR of the fans right when he hit “THE GRANDSLAM” of the year! GOOOOOO DODGERS!

  2. amyw27

    Josh- I can’t believe that you called Manny’s at bat in your post last night. It was perfect. It feels so good to be 27 games above .500 I keep remembering last season where we struggled to keep a.500 record while trialing the Dbacks. This season is shaping up to be even more amazing that last, and last year we almost made the World Series. This team truly is the best in the world and I am so proud to be a Dodger fan!
    Thanks for all the wonderful updates. Josh you are awesome too!

  3. nellyjune

    Josh – Nice prediction there!!!!! Listening to Vin was pretty awesome too for those of us watching at home. I think Vin was speechless for a time because he mentioned he hadn’t heard it that loud in Dodger Stadium in 20 years. We were there last year when Manny made his debut start as a Dodger, but that fails in comparison to how electric it was last night. I bet Billz was a pretty happy pitcher at that point too. He pitched well, with some great defensive plays behind him, and he soooo deserved that win. Thanks for the updates, and like Amy said, you are pretty awesome yourself, especially putting up with this group.

  4. thinkingblue

    AMY I kept telling my husband that Manny will pinch hit and get a GRAND SLAM ( I sort confused what JOSH has post it…walk-off home run vs Grand Slam)….but hey. And when Manny got ready I just told him…”SEE SEE HE WILL GET THE GRAND SLAM, JUST WATCH” and he did! It was sooooo weird but awsome. Where you there? I was watching from home but it was still very exciting!


    What’s equally amazing is that our team is 27 games over .500, and we still have PP and Loretta, the right-handed version of Sweeney. Wonder where we would be if we had a real bench.

  6. amyw27

    I’m glad that you had such a great time watching with game with your family. Manny did just what everyone wanted him to do, he came through. That HAS to be the PEPSI Clutch performance of the week!!
    No I wasn’t there. I worked last night and I watched the grand slam from my bed. I went to sleep with the Dodgers winning 🙂

  7. perumike

    I didn’t get to see the game last night, but have seen and heard plenty about Manny’s shot! Wow!

    The last couple of days I have seen highlights from a few seasons back when Steve Finley hit his walkoff slam against the Giants, which put the Dodgers in the playoffs and knocked the Giants out. I was at that game with a few friends who were Giants fans, so it was all the sweeter when Finley hit it. The stadium was literally shaking, everyone screaming and giving hi fives. It was a very quiet ride home with my friends, but I couldn’t stop smiling.

    I can only imagine what last night was like at the Ravine….

  8. crzblue2

    I put this in the last thread. Josh usually does not come this early to start a new thread but the occasion merits it.
    Just like the tickets from the back to back to back to back, I put those ones away! Those are keepers just like my playoffs, and world series tickets.
    Before leaving work, I posted on phasebook that I was heading to the game. A friend comments “Manny is not playing you goofy.” haha. As if Manny being out of the lineup was going to hold me back from going to our beloved Dodger Stadium.
    So good to read your postings again!

  9. phan52

    A grand slam home run off Nick Masset (who?) in the 6th inning of a game in July is comparable to a walkoff home run in the World Series against HOF closer Dennis Eckersley?


  10. thinkingblue

    Hey Phan…came to join us in our celebration…GOOOO DODGERS!
    AMY – oh yeah sweet dreams after a wondefule Dodger game!
    BEAR – I think Loretta is much better than Sweeney. Loretta hits the ball and gets RBI…Sweeney just kept the bench warm and got strike outs….

  11. Dodger4life

    Just the site of Phan……shows how signifigant this day, week, and year is……..
    KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. phan52

    Significant? How so? Did it end the game? Did the Commissioner say everybody could go home after a home run in the 6th inning?
    You guys are a trip.

  13. perumike

    I guess Josh isn’t the only one in the predicting business! My post from yesterday:

    In spite of Manny being out, I like this lineup, and I think we can get the sweep! Let’s have good Bills tonight and hit a couple out of the yard! How about #20 for Dre?

    By perumike on July 22, 2009 4:58 PM
    Report any abuse or spam

  14. thinkingblue

    PHAN you don’t understand cause you are not a Dodger Fan. You don’t follow the Dodgers like we do. And no matter how much you are trying to crash the party it is not going to work. Have a wonderful and GOOOOOO DODGERS!

  15. cpompe1

    Good afternoon ITD boys and girls!
    Wow! What a game last night. I wish I was there, but I wasn’t. But with a sore back and all, I jumped to my feet after Manny’s Grand Salami last night! I’m just thrilled that Billz finally got his 10th win of the year – too long in coming, but it came nonetheless!

    A grand slam home run off Nick Masset (who?) in the 6th inning of a game in July is comparable to a walkoff home run in the World Series against HOF closer Dennis Eckersley?
    By phan52 on July 23, 2009 11:46 AM

    Phan – Let me ask you something. Not that logic would probably work for you, but are you trying to tell us that if Ryan Howard hit a GS in the 6th inning in a July game when the Phillies was scratching to get runs before said HR that you wouldn’t be excited for your Phillies too? Just wondering…

  16. thinkingblue

    PERUMIKE…we never forget about Andre….GOOOOOOO DODGERS (he did run past home base twice). Proud of him. And hey my MARTN continues to hit the balls.

  17. perumike

    Yeah msrussy! I got the couple of HR’s and Dre’s HR! My powers just weren’t clear as to who would hit the other! 🙂

  18. phan52

    Apparently you don’t understand, msrussyethier. How old are you? You apparently don’t understand the significance of what Kirk Gibson did if you think this compares in any way. This will be forgotten by the offseason. Kirk Gibson vs. Dennis Eckersley lives on as one of the most significant events in MLB history.
    As a Dodger fan, you should be embarrassed by the notion that they compare.

  19. trublu4ever

    Hello everyone ~ last night’s game was fun to watch. Dre was awesome, James was awesome, Matt’s defense was awesome, Manny’s homerun was awesome and most of all, THE DODGERS AND THEIR FANS ARE AWESOME!!!!!

  20. trublu4ever

    I had a dream last night that the Dodgers had the best record in baseball ……….. wait, that’s not a dream, it’s reality!

  21. phan52

    cpompei, yes it is exciting. But people here are talking about it in comparison to Kirk Gibson and Steve Finley. This is nothing. I would never compare a Howard HR in the sixth inning of a July game to, say, Matt Stairs ‘into the LA night’ in October.

  22. shad80

    Goooood morning ITD blogmates!
    Is a beautiful day here in Southern Cal but again is going to be a scorcher.
    If you meant the time that I had to get up, yes 5 AM and I actually went to bed close to 3. I got to stop doing that lucky no game tonight. I know it will hit me in the afternoon, but I’ll have some Bigelow green tea, you know why? Because is the right thing to do. Manny must have had some of Joe Torre’s green tea. Ok, enough of that commercial.
    I was telling Dodger Talk last night, we are doing it with a lot of home grown products.

    By crzblue2 on July 23, 2009 9:18 AM

    Nah Emma I was talking about that poll i was expected Pierre to be over 50% and Damon 2nd.

  23. dodgereric


    Q: What do scabs have in common with trolls?
    A: Both can be irritating if not left alone to dry up and blow away

  24. shad80

    OMG I just woke up and Buehrle pitch a prefect game/no hitter this is the guy I really wanted on our team. Congratulations Buehrle better than Sanchez

  25. perumike

    I’m watching the replay of the game right now, Manny is coming up! Woo hoo! Just for the record, my comparison to Finley’s HR was only in the feeling in the stadium, said nothing about the importance of the respective slams!

  26. enchantedbeaver

    I have a question for Phan because he/she is an interesting psychological study:

    1. What sort of pleasure do you derive from irritating people?

    (and please be specific)
    2. Do you derive more pleasure from irritating people in person? or more when you do it anonymously?
    (why? Again, please be specific, I want to get a real feel for the root problem.)
    3. Are you ready to acknowledge that you have a problem? Y-N

    Let’s start there before we go any further.

  27. shad80

    News: Buehrle threw a perfect game against Tampa Bay Thursday, the second no-hitter of his career. He recorded six strikeouts en route to his 11th win of the year, and it’s the first perfect game in club history since 1922.
    Spin: The gem was preserved by Dewayne Wise’s spectacular catch in the ninth, one of the best defensive plays of the season. Buehrle’s now got a 3.28 ERA and 1.10 WHIP on the year, numbers he’ll take to the mound next week at Minnesota.

  28. perumike

    Nothing like a Vin Scully broadcast! I know I’ll miss him, whenever he goes, as much as Chick Hearn. LA has been very fortunate!

  29. cpompe1

    And phan, what you don’t understand is that it’s not the HR itself. And it’s funny that you mention Matt Stairs. I can only imagine that the gut-wrenching feeling Dodger fans had when he hit that HR, well, Phillie fans were feeling a wonderful, euphoric feeling. Am I not correct? Well, Manny’s did the same thing for us last night. Don’t try and “discount” our feelings; you wouldn’t want YOUR feelings for your Phillies to be discounted, would you?

  30. crzblue2

    Is Damon that bad? I don’t know, I don’t follow the American league closely.
    I wish I would have taped the whole game. Sometimes I leave it taping. We taped the replay afterwards so that is good. Is a good thing the game was on Prime to tape the replay of the game (condensed version). The night before it was on the local channel KCAL and they do not show a replay of the game.
    Hey, why is google showing comic heroes?

  31. thinkingblue

    We are celebrating Manny’s Grand Slam, we are celebrating Ethier’s home run, we are celebrating that we are number 1, we are celebrating the we are 27 games above .500, we are celebrating that we have an excellent line-up and we are celebrating the fact that we have sooooo many reasons to celebrate and we are going to KEEP CELEBRATING this whole season. GOOOOO DODGERS! Dodgers have the day sooooo we party!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!

  32. cpompe1

    Boy, for an off day, there sure is a lot going on today! Thx phan…

    And hearty congrats to Mark Buehrle! I STILL remember when (last year, wasn’t it) when the Chisox came to Dodger Stadium and, thank God, didn’t no hit us, but he certainly pitched like a man on a mission. I mean, I remember how fast he worked and how that threw the Dodger hitters on that game. He IS one of the best pitchers in baseball…

  33. phan52

    msrussyethier, You may not have compared the two, but others here have, including the blogmaster (read his original post here). That is what I was commenting on. It makes no sense and is, in a sense, disrespectful to baseball history.
    It was a grand slam in the sixth inning. It didn’t even win the game, as the Reds still had three innings of at-bats coming up. A better example of something to get REALLY excited about was something like Victorino’s walk-off game winner the week he was on the ballot for the extra man at the All-Star game. That probably put him over the top. The walk-off aspect is key.

  34. nellyjune

    Congratulations on your perfect game Mark Buehrle!!! I agree he is one of the best pitchers in baseball.

    Shad – Pierre sucks as a defensive player (throwing anyway). 99.9% of us know that, and I wouldn’t worry about that poll too much. Dodger fans know it so why would we vote for it? We don’t vote our all-stars in so why would we answer poll questions about a topic we know all too well……………..JP has a weak, rainbow-throwing arm. I don’t take much into consideration with defensive stats. I think Eric mentioned the other day that those stats can be misleading because some players are taking risks that others aren’t. Matt Kemp certainly comes to mind there, as far as outfields. Grady Sizemore for sure fits into that category of an outfielder who takes risks, and I am sure there are many more. Those two come to mind right off the bat…………. and their bats are pretty good too 🙂

  35. nellyjune

    Josh – Did I tell you today that you are awesome?!!! If I didn’t earlier, I am saying it now…………………YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ………..and thanks for giving us this forum to have fun (sometimes alot of fun – LOL!!!) and celebrate this fabulous team, our Los Angeles Dodgers.

  36. enchantedbeaver

    Phan since you won’t reach out, let me make a couple of observations. Without being there to see how you conduct yourself in person, I can draw two separate conclusions from your posts:
    (A) Your inner need for attention manifests itself by being argumentative in a passive-aggressive way (anonymously over the computer.) Even though people are irritated by you, it does create the attention your inner child craves, even if in a negative way. Obviously positive attention was lacking in your childhood and has carried over into adult life. But you see, the very group of people you seek to be a part of you’re repulsing at the same time. The very thing you desire you’re subconsciously sabotaging. I would say you could benefit from some counciling in that area – you’ll be happier for it.
    Alternatively, (B) You’re egotistical and self centered. You value no one’s opinions but your own. You also have to put others down in order for you to derive the pleasure of feeling superior, thus proping yourself up in your own mind. No matter what others do for you, its never good enough in your own mind, and you often think that you could’ve done it better yourself if you’d chosen to do so. The underlying root of course is that you’re afraid to let people in to see the real Phan because that would open yourself up to a possible heartbreak, which means you have abandonment issues. Basically you are afraid to feel, and your abrasive manner assures you that other people won’t get anywhere near. Again, I think you could benefit from some counciling in this area.


    I will admit I have been concerned about the Manny hero worship; to put so much faith and hope in one player is just not healthy. But no matter how one feels about Manny, and no matter how one pathetic Philly fan feels, that was a special moment last night. No, it was not a walk off game winning home run (although without the home run they might still be playing) and it did occur in July against a team that reminds me of the Washington Generals, playing foil to the home team. I believe the references to the Gibson home run were about the level of excitement and sound in the stadium, not about the significance. It was about the moment and what had happened the night before, the bobblehead and the swing on the first pitch. Even at home it was an exciting moment, except of course for those of us watching on Time Warner when the cable went haywire just as Manny stepped into the batter’s box, sending me scrambling to turn on the radio just in time to hear Charlie Steiner’s call of the play.

    So please let us enjoy the moment as one of the many memorable moments in Dodger Stadium history. There still is a lot of baseball left to be played and the Dodgers will play them one game at a time.

  38. nellyjune

    lbirken – That’s exactly what I got from Josh’s post. The excitement at Dodger Stadium was the comparison, not the players themselves. Thank you for spelling that out for those who don’t understand.

    bpb – fabulous post. You are very intriguing, mysterious, hilarious all at the same time………………and let’s not forget enchanting.

  39. shad80

    I wonder if they did the opposite of that poll yet. I can’t seem to find it nowhere but I know Ichiro and Kemp should be in the top 3.


    Just as a point of comparison, I don’t remember that Gibson was ever tied into steroids. I don’t think he had a particularly memorable career until that HR in 1988 – certainly won’t make it to the Hall of Fame, but then neither will Manny, the cheater.

  41. lny4loney

    I have rarely used this board to speak directly to you. On this occasion, i feel the need to do so.
    I hope you’ll recognize me as a strong contributor to this board in its early days when I was known as MartinLoneyKemp. Not that I’m anybody special. other than a guy who has been a rabid Dodgers fan for as long as I can remember anything in my life.
    I have mixed feelings about Manny’s slam last night and about all contributions that Manny makes. I’d rather lose with a clean team than win with cheaters. (The 1988 World Champion Dodgers have become even more special to me in recent years as it has become obvious that the supposedly great Oakland team they defeated was loaded with juicers. )
    By continuing to celebrate Manny in the aftermath of his use of banned substances, Dodger management has shown that for them money is more important than class. Or more generously, management prefers to pander to Manny-lovers rather than standing up for clean play and against cheating and harmful drugs.
    Although I wouldn’t mind if the Dodgers had gotten rid of Manny as a response to his cheating, I’m not completely unrealistic. I recognize there was no way anything like that would ever happen, and that it would alienate many Dodgers fans.
    But to continue to celebrate this cheater so enthusiastically by “Mannywood”, Manny bobblehead night, and now apparently a Manny poster makes me sad for the state of the organization.
    We have many young stars on our team well worth celebrating. Guys who will probably and hopefully be Dodgers long after Manny has gone. Let’s celebrate them.
    Matt Kemp, in particular, is on the brink of baseball greatness! How about Mattywood?!
    There are so many wonderful Dodgers who could be highlighted right now. We could have the Loney Loonies. (BTW, I don’t know why my screen name was changed from MartinLoneyKemp, but since it was done I appreciate the moniker “lny4loney “).
    Jonathon Broxton would make a great bobblehead. There could be a hot dog special featuring Orlando “O-Dog” Hudson, who would make a FANTASTIC bobblehead. Whenever Juan Pierre or Matt Kemp singles, a chant of “GO, GO, GO ….!” could be inititated by Nancy Bea and the scoreboard operators as it was in the days of Davey Lopes (and I’m guessing Maury Wills).
    Chad Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw may be the best duo of young starters in the game. Surely, there’ s more that could be done publicity-wise with these guys, maybe in connection with Broxton.
    How about featuring the “Jackson Five” — Kemp, Loney, Martin, Billingsley, and Broxton as a group.
    And let’s not forget Andre Ethier and his band of Ethieraholics. This is a wonderful, charismatic, and interesting guy.
    I guess I could understand the organization putting so much focus on a cheater if that organization was for instance the San Diego Padres and the cheater was Adrian Gonzalez (sorry, Andre, I think you’re great). In other words, an organization with basically nobody else to get excited about.
    But as Dodgers fans we have so much to celebrate, I just don’t understand why management would put so much focus on an embarrassment.

  42. northstateblues

    Lbirken, I feel the same. It wasn’t World Series caliber, but definitely exciting. I think Dodgers fans should be careful not to celebrate so early in the season, as we don’t have anything to celebrate yet…

    I know I’d feel a little more comfortable about this team in October if we had to work to get there, though I’d be sweating bullets before then. Especially after doing my homework by checking out how the teams with the best records (In baseball and/or in their own league) have done in the playoffs since the ’95 format change (that’s in the “Finale in NY” thread, post was at 3:00 pm).

    To reiterate, only 2 Major League leading teams have won the world series since ’95, the ’98 Yankees and the tied-with-Cleveland ’07 Red Sox. As for AL/NL non-Major League leading teams, only the ’95 Braves, ’99 Yankees and ’05 White Sox have gone on to become World Champions. At least Torre was helming two of those teams, so that’s a good sign.

    So I’m really enjoying what happened last night, it did feel like lightning striking twice, albeit at a different time of the year. Excellent, I spent all last night filing through YouTube videos of people who were there. But we have A LOT of work ahead of us, even if we’re still 27 games over .500, especially if we get to October as the top of our league or the game.

    And hey, despite the fact Manny got busted, Charlie Manuel was practically drooling at the aspect of wanting Manny on his All-Star team if he was voted. Fortunately, Dodger fans were smarter, eventually choosing not to elect a guy to the All-Star team who hadn’t played in 75% of the first half.


    Bravo, lny4loney on your post. None of us should be surprised that Dodger management at all levels are a bunch of ****** when it comes to taking in the loot and pandering to the cheaters whenever it is convenient.

  44. nellyjune

    lny4loney – I applaud you for standing up for what you believe in. I am not a Manny fan either, but I am just learning to accept his role on this team. I know messagebear will love what you had to say. Like I said last night/early this morning, I looked at Manny’s GS as a way to get Billz his win. I really like Billz as a pitcher, and I was happy Manny did what he did to help him. And, you are right, all the other accomplishments of this year by our other players always seem to get washed away when Manny has a good outing. Make sure you stop by more often………….the “James Loney Song” is yours, and I bet some of our new bloggers don’t know that. Also, I remember the chants you and your brother used to do at the games. One more thing…………………thanks for not forgetting Andre. This Ethieraholic is very proud of him.

  45. crzblue2

    I second Dnelly motion that you are !!!!!!AWESOME!!! and you have some awesome ambassadors working there Thank you for putting up with me sometimes!
    I love that I can communicate with so many people here and other blogs that share the same love for the Dodgers or for baseball as I do. I think that is GRRREAT!!

  46. trublu4ever

    I’m sorry but I have to take he other side of the Manny issue. He cheated and paid the price and, therefore I believe he deserves a second chance. I feel if the players have accepted and welcomed him back, so should I. Fans all over have forgiven their cheaters too, A-Rod and Giambi and Pettite come to mind. If we are so lucky to get to, and win the World Series, Manny will be a part of it and I am glad for that. Don’t get me wrong, I do understand where you are all coming from but, in this day and age, how do we really know who is clean and who is not. I believe all of our “Young Guns” (who happen to be my favorite players) are clean. We are are forgiving nation of people and, that is why I understand that the fans have supported Manny in his return.

  47. lny4loney

    Accpeting Manny as part of the team and acknowledging that he paid the price with his 50-game suspension is one thing. And of course the players should — have little choice but to — welcome Manny back.
    My objection is to Dodgers management going way beyond the very reasonable suggestions you make.

  48. northstateblues

    MLK, a valid point. It isn’t scary to me that the Dodgers are glorifying one player (see: R. Martin), but that they’re celebrating a guy who broke the rules and was busted. It’s particularly hard for this fan, who was a fan of Manny since Manny Being Manny became a phenomenon in Boston, hoping that with every trade deadline, every shakeup in the rocky Manny-Boston marriage, that he’d end up in Dodger Blue and take L.A. by storm. Guess I should be more careful what I wish for.

    His personality is so likeable, even now, that I find it hard to dislike him, though I’m ashamed of what he’s done, and I’ve chosen to forgive, but never to forget.

    As for Roids, unfortunately, the moralists of sports are finding disappointment at the fact that even in the pastoral, conservative world of Baseball, that a drug cheat can start at 3rd in the All-Star game a year after being outed for coming up dirty, a once-in-a-lifetime powerhouse is on the verge of getting a triple crown, and I feel a bit guilty when the red light in my mind screams “STEROIDS!!!” because I’m not sure (even though they should be piss-testing him every chance they get, though since it’s such a good story for a non-mega market team, Bud’ll let it slide), a cheater lucks out by being made by the sports media into the only hope for a team with a 20-year WS drought, even though a punch-and-judy slap artist starting in LF for 50 games helped the team mark time while becoming stronger AS A TEAM.

    The Media is callusing MLB fans to Roid use the same way they’ve done it, and succeeded, with NFL fans. The paradigm shift in the way the Dodgers have dealt with this makes me think of two events that have shocked me with the exhibition of the will of the masses in the face of a world-changing event: The way never-criticize-the-commander-in-chief Fox News became a mud-slinging engine against our President, and the mud-slinging MSNBC traded places with them; and the way Michael Jackson’s death made it so all the allegations of what he did in the last 20 years of his life were completely forgotten, never breeched in the media.

    I think one of the most interesting thing about the movie Field of Dreams is that Terrance Mann, who gave the speech about how “The one constant throughout the years [in America] is Baseball…”, defending the purity of the conservative, good ol’ boy pastoral sport, was a lefty-thinker who wrote a book called “The Boat Rocker”. To go with the flow is easy, but to rock the boat, that’s a tough route, and I commend you on being able to stand up for what you know is right, as I falter at times, sometimes opting for the path of least resistance as opposed to the road less traveled.

    At this moment in time in our country, I feel like in order to not root for PED using athletes, in Baseball, Football, Basketball, the Olympics, Hockey, NASCAR (Mayfield), etc, the only way to stay on the moral ground would be to shun sports entirely, because we don’t know who’s clean and who’s not. Everyone is suspect. Who wanted to believe that Lo Duca and Gagne were using back in ’03? And yet they were. With Manny, A-Rod, Mike Cameron, J.C. Romero (a stretch, but a convicted user), we know they cheated, and won’t be forgetting anytime soon. For all the others…

    If you stop and look around at it, it’s a sad time for sports.

  49. trublu4ever

    lmy4loney ~ I do know what you mean. Frank is in the business of making money and right now Manny sells!

  50. trublu4ever

    By the way, Northstateblues and lny4loney ~ brilliant pieces of writing!
    And, I have to agree with NellyJune, BPB, you were enchanting as always.

  51. nellyjune

    I need to clarify that I wasn’t really a Manny fan before he got suspended so my view of him really hasn’t changed all that much. I don’t dislike him to the point I do JP, and I am not rooting against him because I know what he does to and for the team obviously helps.

  52. nellyjune

    I am really pulling for the young guns because THEY deserve this time in their careers. We have seen them over these last two/three years just blossom into the athletes that we knew they would, and to think some of them haven’t even reached their full potential yet is just fantastic. We have a great mix of veterans and young guns, and if we can just get a pitcher or two to help either the starting rotation or the bullpen (or both) would go along way in getting that Ring in 2009.

  53. lny4loney

    I wish I could say I’m totally pure. But I’m not either. I could easily enough celebrate Manny’s accomplishments if they weren’t being so over-celebrated by everybody else.
    My first response when I found out about Manny’s drug violation was to wonder if it was time to give up being a fan of all sports played by anyone over 8 years old on theory that there are only a handful of parents in the country juicing their 8-year-olds. But I didn’t and I won’t. I’m not that pure, and I love baseball and the Dodgers too much.
    Critics of fans who have spent a lifetime rooting for the same team regardless of any scandal the team has or is embroiled in say those fans are in love with a uniform, with a logo, with a color (or two colors). I’m guilty. If I was going to be true to my convictions, I would walk away from the 2009 and 2010 Dodgers (although Boras had no intention of letting Manny use his $20 million dollar option for 2010 when he negotiated the contract, I guarantee Manny will be exercising that option in the light of his suspension), I’m not going to do it.
    I’m a hypocrite. I guess it’s fair to say I have a dysfunctional relationship with the Dodgers. I love the logo; I love the Blue; I love all that this team has meant to me throughout my life to hold it responsible for its actions when I should.
    I guess I’m as responsible as anyone for management’s choices to celebrate Manny so much. I mean if a guy who is so appalled by management action keeps going to games, buying concessions, watching on T.V., listening on the radio, etc … if that guy is going to keep lending his support, what motivation does management have for behaving honorably?

  54. nellyjune

    If anything was accomplished by today’s ITD thought provoking comments, psychological analysis, trivia questions, and the everyday fun, it showed no matter what circumstances our team is in, we are all still bleeding Dodger Blue thru and thru. And that my friends, is why we are all here on ITD, it’s why we are one of the best blogs around and why other non-Dodger fans feel they need to join us. The Dodgers do have the best fans, no doubt about it.


    Iny4loney, my son had a similar reaction to his devotion to sports when Manny got busted. All I could say is to remember the good about following sports; the excitement and entertainment of the games. Players come and go but teams and organizations continue. The sleezy business side of both pro and college sports will also continue to feed of our passion. So I say root for the uniform, not the person. I just can’t give it up even when my teams or favorite players do stupid things. And with that I say have a great rest of the day and keep supporting your ideas. And don’t be a stranger around here. I think most of us value your posts.

  56. thinkingblue

    NELLY – Well said…we are going keep celebrating every great moment Dodgers have, little or big. We are true Dodger fans! Let the partying continue….

  57. lny4loney

    Hey, on a completely different note, Adrian Gonzalez reminds me a little bit of Nate Colbert.
    Colbert was a Padre of the early ’70s who was basically the entire offense. For instance, Colbert had a hair less than 25% of the team RBIs of the 1972 Padres.
    While the 2009 Padres are not as punchless as the ’72 team, it is modern communications much more than his teammates that keeps Gonzalez from the obscurity that Colbert experienced.

  58. truebluewill

    Hi Everyone,
    Living on the east coast I don’t always get to stay up for the whole Dodger game when they are at home especially during the work week. So I missed Manny’s slam live but got to watch it on the MLB archive. It has to go down as a great Dodger moment. It also shows how great this team is and what a great season they are having. Something we, as long time fans should appreciate and enjoy, because you never know when a season like this one will happen again. I, like a lot of people, have mixed feelings about Manny. I don’t condone what Manny did and I hate steroids, but I love baseball and I love the Dodgers. They have been a big part of my life for over 50 years. So what ever happens I will deal with it and still root and love the Dodgers. Nelly and msrussyeither I agree with you.

  59. devswin2003

    last nights game was a great game,great way to bring in the big gun! Better than tha…get the job done! Thats why he is getting paid the money! Thats why we Dodger fans awaited his return,skeptical,maybe…to see what he can do without female steroids.He proved himself not only lastnight but has been regular with the hitting,since returning.I am sooo wondering if theres a way for the Dodger organization to get Dusty baker back on the team! He was one of my many favorites since a lil 10 yr old growing up in Brooklyn.

  60. lny4loney


    Sorry. I am not convinced that he is not still using steroids. How do we know that?
    We need regular testing that includes samples being saved so that we can later test for substances that were unknown and/or untestable at the time the blood was drawn. I think the Olympics calls this a “B” sample.

  61. colliethec

    Good evening everybody.
    Great comments and conversation today. For the most part.
    For our little friend I think BPB said it best. But I don’t understand why he doesn’t understand that as someone mentioned the HR wasn’t being compared to Gibby’s in importance but in the excitement & noise level. Also in drama as well as storyline.
    I agree with many of the posts today. Great ones by MLK & NSB. I’m a very torn by the whole Manny thing as well. I see both sides of the conversation.
    But for me it boils down to the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. I was really upset when the Manny thing came down. While I struggled with his mistake, I realized that I wasn’t going to let his poor decision making/cheating affect my enjoyment of the baseball season or this team. Although I’m much more muted in my love for Manny. But last night was a pretty cool moment.
    As MLK stated there are so many great players on this team and so many reasons to cheer for them. I’m not opposed to having Manny as one of the faces of the team, but I still think he should do more to correct his mistake before it was done. I really think he should do some PSA’s about drugs in general and some that are directed at PED’s and why they shouldn’t be used & that he had been mistaken with using them.
    I’m not saying he has to do a bunch of press conferences, but he could really make amends his mistake by reaching out to the fans, mainly kids. And not because he was caught but because he realizes his mistakes and wants to clean up his act and make a difference in others lives.

  62. trublu4ever

    Hi, Collie. I think the pitchers would probably be the most likely abusers. Not necessarily for an edge but for recovery. I think it is odd that the players from the past are now criticizing the players now. They may not have taken steroids in the past but they certainly took uppers. And, most of all to blame is the Players Union and the Commisioner who did nothing but turn a blind eye.

  63. lny4loney

    No question about it: The number one culprit in the Steroid Era is Bud Selig. Just typing his name makes me feel filthy.

  64. colliethec

    True that!!!!
    I hope you are well!!
    Many of the guys probably took them for injury reasons. I’m a weekender and when I’ve been injured I’ve received injections that are a roid. Also many that have asthma are given some type of a roid. Not the same as an anabolic steroid, but one nonetheless. I can understand them being given to repair an injury, but not for an edge. I really think HGH is still an issue & that guys are using them to get ahead.

  65. Dodger4life

    Magical is Magical….and when a sell out crowd is wishing upon a late inning star, and that wish is answered it is simply amazing….. A wonderful moment in Dodger History, regardless 🙂

  66. lny4loney

    Have we all come to trust Ned Colletti? I haven’t read anybody here panicking that Ned will trade away our future this deadline. And from what I’ve read elsewhere, he is refuising to trade Clayton Kershaw in a deal for Roy Halladay. Thank God!
    Halladay is a terrific pitcher, and may prove to be a seriousl obstacle to us come October. But Clayton Kershaw is at least a decade younger and has an upside so high I dare not mention the name I have in mind.

  67. Dodger4life

    Magical is Magical….and when a sell out crowd is wishing upon a late inning star, and that wish is answered it is simply amazing….. A wonderful moment in Dodger History, regardless 🙂

  68. trublu4ever

    I heard today that the Dodgers and the Phillies are the two teams in the Halladay sweepstakes. Our people have been followig him all week. So, we shall see. And, perhaps keep our fingers crossed that we don’t do something really stupid to get him!

  69. trublu4ever

    According to ESPN’s Peter Gammons, Assistant GN Logan White has been in Toronto for the last two series. We have offered to take on Halladay’s contract plus give them: SS Dee Gordon, 3B Josh Bell, OF/1B Andrew Lambo and OF Ethan Martin.


    What’s up with moving Scott Elbert again? In my opinion he looked great out of the pen. He was brought up, pitched in three outings, gave up 0 runs and only 2 hits while striking out 6 in 5 innings of work. Then he gets sent down to AAA and hasn’t even pitched yet. Just doesn’t make sense to me. How many options does he have left?

  71. shad80

    I remember Boston was asking for Broxton/Kemp for Manny thanks god Ned didn’t give in and now we have all 3 of them on our team.

  72. enchantedbeaver

    I think Gammons is off his gourd. Two top prospects I can see, but not all 4 of your top prospects. No reason they shouldn’t be packaging McDonald and Elbert somehow along with 2 of the afore mentioned.

    However, with Logan White there I’d have to trust his judgement on what prospects to give up. I don’t think he’d give his blessing unless he felt they may never fully develop. It would surely leave our farm empty though.

  73. trublu4ever

    Good Evening BPB ~ good job today with our idiot friend! I think you scared him off……anything over one syllable totally confused him. lol

  74. Dodger4life

    I kind of like that idea leaves us Lindblom if he is in shape and McDonald in the pen come late September and early October. Lindblom if ready would be unseen and somewhat of a mystery to opposing hitters. McDonald has ability when he has focus. Plus we dont lose any young arms??? We may be young enough as it is to recover from that as well???

  75. enchantedbeaver

    I had to put myself in his/her shoes Tru. Lonely, angry, unhappy, and bitter at the world so they lash out at others before the others can hurt them, alienating the very society they so desperately want to be a part of. Angry, not at the world, but at themselves, yet unable to take the responsibility for their own actions. If and when they do, the anger often turns inward and manifests itself as depression and they become paralyzed with feelings of anxiety, inferiority and inadequacy leading to further depression.
    Or they’re just an assshole.

  76. enchantedbeaver

    rx.xc.ka are you new? Don’t remember seeing your name before. If so, welcome to ITD!!!

    Here’s the option rule(s): If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers. However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers. If a major league player is ineligible for free agency and “has options” remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence. This is usually what is meant when players are “sent down” to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is “called up” to the majors.

    Since Elbert still has “options”, they can call him up and send him down as many times as they want. Also, since Elbert sees very little action its my guess they’d rather have him pitching regularly in the minors rather than sporadically in the majors.

  77. enchantedbeaver

    I guess diagnosis complete then as far as you’re concerned eh Tru? LOL

    In all honesty, whatever. There’s more crap going down in the world to worry about than allowing little buttwipes to irritate you. Hell its probably some 15-16 year old kid doing the internet version of lighting a bag of dogdoo on fire on your porch, ringing the doorbell and running away.

    The thing to do if you don’t like what’s said is skip over the post(s). What people tend to forget is that people that want to irritate you can only do so if you let them. YOU’RE the one in control of your feelings and reactions, not them. We all fall off the wagon once in awhile it that respect. Hell I just like playing with them now and then. I quickly bore of it though. Just ask yourself is it worth getting irritated by someone you know is trying to get your goat. Hell for all I know they find it sexually gratifying in which case they’re a really sick puppy. Just think of that possibility next time you want to engage.

  78. nellyjune

    We all know Beav…………………I meanenchanted………………………I mean brownpaperbag…………..I mean whatever tranvestite name jhall/Wally gave you is just special and can say whatever he wants.

  79. trublu4ever

    Dodgereric kept telling everbody, “Don’t” but some had a hard time ignoring him. I just pretend like he isn’t even here.
    The only time I think I’d have to “engage” is if he really verbally abused one of our people.

  80. enchantedbeaver

    I should add too that if they’re any older than 15-16 then they should be ashamed that they can’t act like an adult.

  81. nellyjune

    bpb – I think you need to drop the age a bit. Even 15 year olds are more mature. Our visitor from the Indians blog is a 15 year old female, and she does a pretty good job on hers.

    Right now I dont even think Manny needs batting practice he’s so good. -TC

    By indianslove on July 23, 2009 1:19 PM

  82. trublu4ever

    I actually think he is an adult. A teenager would have more class. He probably got kicked out of the Philly Blog.

  83. trublu4ever

    Okay. You guys have fun tonight. I have to feed my husband. See you all tomorrow when our Dodgers continue their winning ways.

  84. enchantedbeaver

    Grown-up or child, his/her whole schtick is quite hackneyed now.

    Sow what do you think – doe we give up the farm for Halladay and a shot at the crown this year and next? Or do we shy away and have a good, but maybe not great team for years to come?

  85. enchantedbeaver

    You know, someday MLB ought to fix these damn blogs so they post right, It hasn’t worked right since we got the “new and improved” version just at the start of last season. I just spent 10 minutes trying to post “Night TruMom.” – rediculous.

  86. nellyjune

    bpb – I am not sure about giving up the farm. I am not sure who mentioned it up above, but I am hoping Logan White is involved in these talks so at least we have somebody who is looking out for out best interest when it comes to the guys who will eventually be up here in the big club. What are you thinking? I know we need pitching, but at what cost? ………a prospect is only a prospect until he has proven himself up at this level, but I am just not sure.

  87. enchantedbeaver

    I still say Marty, Mac, DeWitt and a prospect or two for Halladay and their catcher. Beyond that, nevermind. A lot if “ifs”, but if Bills can straighten himself out, and if Kersh can keep developing, and if Kuroda/Wolf don’t totally mess up, they could still make some noise without Halladay. The key though is Bills.

    Getting kinda late here. I’ll catch you tomorrow. Thank you and TruMom for the company!!

  88. nellyjune

    Good Night bpb – You are welcome, and thank you for sticking up for our blog today. You did a great job!!! Alot of good discussion today about Manny and everything that surrounds him. It was great to see MLK back on here again. I do miss him and leefink’s commentary. It was always something to look forward to, especially on days like these. I hope they find their way back on here more often. Take care Beav………………..I mean enchanted………………..I mean brownpaperbag.

  89. northstateblues

    Just off work and late to the party…

    I do want to clarify one thing: I still like Manny. I don’t like what he did, but it kinda feels like a cousin who’s a jokester who one day got pulled over for DUI. Then, after doing his time, he comes back, everyone is supportive, and that’s good. Still the same guy, I’d just think twice about giving him the keys to drive my family anywhere. You just learned how far you can trust him, and hope he stays away from that bottle.

    Little League baseball is fun, too… unless there’s drunken parents taking it out on their kids that they were never able to make it past HS Baseball, and will be damned if their kids don’t make them million… I mean, find success at the Major League level.

    There’s good and bad in everything. But as Japanese singer Kyu Sakamoto said, “Let’s walk looking up” (the literal translation of his Japanese and American hit “Ue wo Muite Aruko”). If you look around in sports, there’s a lot of bad… but if you look around in life, in Hollywood, in Washington, in the world in general, there’s a lot of bad too. The worst you could do is knowingly be ignorant of it. The best you could do is to change what you can by your influence, and hope it catches on with others.

    “A life is not important, except in the impact it has on others’ lives” – Jackie Robinson

    They should have that quote above the clubhouse at Dodger Stadium.

  90. nellyjune

    northstateblues – late or not, you are always welcome to the ITD party. Another fabulous piece of writing once again.

  91. northstateblues

    Thanks Nelly. Today was fun here, because MLK sounds like my conscience, every time I cheer for Manny, I hear that little cricket-sized voice reminding me how he spent the first half of the season and why.

    Although the suspension might’ve been a blessing in small part, because I remember Manny’s hammys bugging him throughout the beginning of the season. Over a month of not playing 9 innings (or 1 inning, for that matter) probably did a lot towards helping him mend in a way that he otherwise would’ve had.

    Though, of course, I would not recommend that as a common course of action, nor would I like to see it happen again, heh.

  92. northstateblues

    And what’s with Bud wanting to change the rule about the 10 game Minor League rehab before the end of a PED suspension? Wasn’t that put in on his watch? What a maroon. Has no clue about the game he’s supposed to be the head honcho for.

    This is exactly why we shouldn’t let owners become managers.

  93. nellyjune

    You are welcome northstateblues, and MLK is the perfect example of the balance we have here on ITD and our differences in opinions on topics and players. And what perfect timing MLK had today to show our non-Dodger fans how we can disagree on a topic and still manage to respect and appreciate what everyone has to say.

  94. northstateblues

    We need to give Bud Selig the Bastille treatment, stat. because now is a crucial time where it will be decided whether or not PEDs will be flushed out of the sport, or tolerated as an “everybody does it” mea culpa. And we’re not gonna flush it out with the floater currently in office.

    I have never met a Bud Selig fan. I have never met someone who could honestly say “Bud Selig is good for baseball” … then again, rooting for commissioners would be like rooting for umpires, so maybe that’s not surprising.

    Maybe we need term limits.

  95. nellyjune

    I have not met a Selig fan either, and I like you are around Giants and A’s fans (as well as others).

  96. dodgereric

    A guy meets a girl in a bar…….

    He really likes her and asks her if she’d sleep with him for a million dollars.

    She thinks it over long and hard. After all, she was raised the right way. But a million dollars? Used properly, it would set her up for the rest of her life. And if nothing else, she was a practical girl. So she says, “Yes.”

    The guy then asks, “Well, would you sleep with me for $50?”

    At this, she gets very indignant. “Of course not! What kind of a girl do you think I am?”

    He says, “We’ve established what kind of girl you are. Now we’re just haggling.”

    I’ve just caught up with the posts since I left work and I have to say that I’m impressed. I’m not surprised. We have many very thoughtful people here. I really don’t want to single anyone out for excellence for fear of leaving someone out, but MLK, nice job. I logged on to toss in my own two cents and decided it’s too late and shut the laptop down. Then I realized that sleep might come a little easier if I were to join in here. So here I am. I hope it works.

    I’ve had my own expression of thoughts on Manny and the hypocrisy he raises in me in a conversation with sara long ago. Funny, but to me, the assumed steroid use still runs second to the incident with the elderly man in Boston – was he a traveling secretary? That still bothers me a lot. And I’ve related my own problem and solution to the Lakers signing that cross-dressing SOB. Why can’t I get back on that high horse with Ramirez? I don’t like to think my ethics have slackened. Hell, if anything they’ve been strengthened since that time.

    Some have said that the reason we Dodger fans are so quick to forgive Ramirez (as opposed to Bonds) is that he’s a likeable guy, whereas Bonds was an assshole before he ever used the juice. There’s a lot of truth in that. I’ve tried to justify my hypocrisy with that, but it’s not good enough.

    I’ve tried to tell myself it’s just Life’s Toy Department and to stop taking it so seriously, but that’s not good enough.

    I’ve tried to tell myself that we’re overhyping this PED thing, that if they’re not all doing it, most of them are. That’s not good enough.

    I’ve tried to tell myself that the pitchers that Ramirez, Arod, et al were taking deep were on it too. But that’s not good enough.

    No, it was none of those. MLK dredged it up when he wrote, “I guess it’s fair to say I have a dysfunctional relationship with the Dodgers. I love the logo; I love the Blue; I love all that this team has meant to me throughout my life to hold it responsible for its actions when I should.”

    Brother, you hit the head right on the nail with that, at least for me. I said before Ramirez returned that I would boycott the Dodgers while he was on the team unless he told the fans he was sorry. I said that in the hope I would have the guts to stick by it. Thankfully, he did apologize to us. Not a terribly great one, but he’s not exactly a great one with words. Truthfully, I don’t think I could have followed through with it anyway. At least not for long.

    I don’t love the Lakers like I love the Dodgers. I don’t love the Kings like I love the Dodgers. I don’t love NASCAR like I love the Dodgers.

    I guess I’ve established what kind of a man I am. Now I’m just haggling.

  97. nellyjune

    I went over to Inside the White Sox blog earlier today (as a lot of non-White Sox fans did) and gave a congratulations to Mark Buehrle for his perfect game, and they have some pretty nice fans over there. Too bad all bloggers can’t be that friendly and just respect all fans and their respective teams.

  98. northstateblues

    Good post Eric. I’d like to think I’m better than the Seinfeld assertion that fans of sports teams are “rooting for laundry”… but… I root for laundry.

    No matter what’s happened so far, I still find myself coming back… even when I know that by all rights, I shouldn’t. But there’s something about that laundry.

    “You dont really need to find out whats going on
    You dont really want to know just how far its gone
    Just leave well enough alone
    With your dirty laundry”

    Stop mocking me, Don Henley!

  99. lny4loney

    Thanks for putting my feelings to humor. (To be clear, no sarcasm intended.)
    I guess I have had my say on this topic, and will get back to the business of rooting on my beloved Dodgers. If others want to make Manny their personal favorite, who am I to deny them? I’ll root for Manny, but I’m saving my lungs and my inability to speak with a full voice the day after I go to A game for my favorites.
    Just one last question: Are we worse than Giants fans for rooting for a kn own rulebreaker, or are they worse than us for denying the obvious? Who cares, I guess.
    GO BLUE!

  100. nellyjune

    Well, coming from a household that has both Dodger fans and Giants fans in it, I can at least say Manny admitted it and at least I have that to stand by, but a Giants fan, who is/was a Bonds fan, will tell you he hasn’t been convicted of anything yet. My hubby was never a Bonds fan, primarily because of attitude, but my son will defend him until it is proven otherwise. Yes, it’s hard being me at times. It’s bad enough that I have to prove my point to my daughter every game why Andre and Matt should be starting over JP, but that’s nothing compared to defending my entire team against Giants fans whose primary goal is to beat the Dodgers. Our ultimate goal is to get a ring in 2009, and a gnat fan’s goal is to defeat the Dodgers, especially now that the Pirates and the Braves and soon the Rox will send their season’s hopes of seeing the playoffs spiraling into the ground.


    I haven’t been here before and I may be boo’d off before I get started but I need to know a few things.In the beginning when Manny came under question there was a tiny little mention of personal issues. It was thought that the Rameriz’s wanted to start a family. What happened to that ? Could his personal life have taken him into a place that made him less cautious with his professional life ? He immediately took responsibility and said he should have paid more attention.He did serve his time without complaint .
    Now I am curious how many more dietary supplements etc will be banned in the future. Things change continually and even vitamin B-12 or vitamin K help with the ailments that ball players face after playing ball for days and months on end. When will someone decide they are performance enhancing instead of health sustaining ?
    Now remember when Gator Aide came on the market? It has the potassium needed to sustain hydration .Was it an enhancement ? A hydrated player is going to last longer than one who has become dehydrated.
    I may be going a little to the extreme here but I have trouble with a lot of the “press” on how much of a cheater a player really is.
    Did Manny ever have a positive steroid test ? If he was using HGH to cover steroids how come this is his first positive test on that ? We all know Manny has been tested more than one time over the course of his career.
    I guess my bottom line is I haven’t been totally convinced Manny was “cheating”.
    I also believe too much time is wasted on covering players who took something before it was banned by baseball.It has the same merit in my opinion as condemning the person who smoked on an airplane 25 years ago when it was legal.
    Now I may have missed something somewhere that proved Manny did steroids.I may have missed the proof that his use of HGH was for other than fertility reasons . I don’t mind having that data pointed out to me.In fact if it is there I would really like to see it so that I understand the Manny haters better.
    And for my final thought here..In todays economy whatever sells tickets keeps our team alive , our stadium open.Right now that would be Manny.Obviously the sell out crowd on the Manny Bobble head night speaks for that.
    Meantime this house in Oregon is going to stay True Blue !
    And we are going to continue to get goose bumps when yes even Manny comes in and hits a grand slam on the first pitch.

  102. trublu4ever

    Cadams ~ welcome to ITD. You will NOT get booed off. People here may have a different opinion than you do (and believe me, they will) but you are always allowed to say what you think. This allows for interesting discussion and debate. I hope you will continue to visit us here.

  103. nellyjune

    Good Morning ITD readers and writers!!!!!

    Welcome to ITD cadams!!! First off, don’t ever feel like your opinion doesn’t matter. You will have some opposition, but you will also have many on your side as well.

    I believe you are correct in that nothing has been proven as far as a use of a steroid. I think many of us are with you on that. Where is all this evidence, and why did all this come up when it did? I don’t think much of that has ever been explained. I think most of us are going by what our management has said about the issue.

    Now, as far as Manny himself, and I can only speak for myself, I didn’t care for him when he was with Boston. I live up here in California’s Central Valley and had seen him play as a Red Sox against the A’s. Maybe it was just being around the Red Sox fans. They were very rude at the A’s games and Manny “appeared” to be very arrogant. The reason I said “appeared” is even with our own Dodgers unless we are in the clubhouse, we really don’t know their real personalities and what they are really thinking, do we? Maybe it was (like Eric mentioned last night) the fact that he pushed his traveling secretary.

    However, I have learned over time to accept his role on this team, and I was there on the day of his debut back in August of last year. I was cheering with the rest of them…………….why?…………because he is wearing a Dodger uniform. Obviously he does something to this team to make them better with him than without him so I don’t anybody wants to mess with that, especially if it gets the Ddogers a ring in 2009. To be honest, I have a much easier time cheering for Manny these days than I do Juan Pierre, but that is a totally different subject in terms of current outfielders.

    Once again, welcome to ITD, and your opinion is always welcome. Also, once a game starts around here, it’s all about the Dodgers winning, with a whole lot of commentary and fun in between.

  104. rebsox

    I guess you don’t know Manny all that well yet, if you are surprised he is taking batting practice early in the morning on an off-day. Hitting is this man’s passion in life; one might call him an idiot savant in this area. He used to skip his classes to take batting practice in high school. When he was with the red sox, he would show up early in the AM to take batting practice on a regular basis. His work ethic in this regard was the reason so many former teammates were surprised by evidence of juicing (although it certainly explains his mood swings.) He may drive you nuts in a million other areas, but Manny can always make you love him again with just one swing of the bat.

  105. bluesplash09

    ITD really is the best blog there is, look how much discussion we have on a day our boys aren’t even playing! Everyone has brought up a good point about Manny, but when it comes down to it, he is a Dodger and I cannot and will not ever boo a player in Dodger Blue, and yes I was at some games last year when andruw was playing, and I still couldnt do it. Unlike the other star sluggers who have been caught/accused, Manny served his time and is now helping this team to a special year. I love The Dodgers…bottom line

  106. bluesplash09

    One more thing, everyone should go to and go to the MLB page and read the latest article by jason stark about midseason trades that didnt work out at all, one of these trades he says is Steve Finley coming to us in 04….I seem to recall a grand slam in the bottom of the 9th to send us to the playoffs! Go comment and tell him what an idiot he is (this is the same guy who wrote that the cubs would sweep us in the division series last year, ha!) my name there is Dodger90090

  107. nellyjune

    bluesplash – LOL!! I know how you feel. I was at a Dodgers/Braves series and was actually cheering for Andruw because really our ultimate goal is for the Dodgers to win the game. Now, the weekend of Manny’s debut. I didn’t cheer for Andruw, but I didn’t boo him either. I was pretty upset that Andruw was playing instead of Andre that weekend. I wasn’t happy in that regard at all. However, through every at bat and strikeout, I did not boo him.

    Thanks for your input rebsox, and welcome to ITD.

  108. bluesplash09

    Nelly, I did get some redemption this year because I went to the series against the rangers and I booed him with everything I had!….he then hit 2 homers, but The Dodgers won both the games he homered in so no harm done

  109. trublu4ever

    I don’t boo players either. I may not cheer for them but I never boo. Rebsox, I am a Manny supporter and NellyJune (my daughter) is not. She does support him because he is a Dodger but I have forgiven his mistake and really enjoy watching him play. To me he makes baseball fun to watch. Because of all the differing opinions on this blog, we are very unique, entertaining, informative, sometimes a little over the top, but we ALL love the DODGERS!

  110. nellyjune

    I do remember you going to those games, and I am sure that booing felt good. There is no doubt that everyone on this board would have done the same thing.

  111. thinkingblue

    Good Morning ITD,
    Well yesterday was a busy day here at ITD, regardless of the Dodgers Day off. I know right now I am celebrating a bit too much, but that’s just the way I am (always cheery). I know that we have not won the Division or World Series. But I am still celebrating the little accomplishments the Dodgers are doing day by day. Maybe people like me are the reason why we have small Kindergarten Graduation Ceremonies …LOL! As a mom when my kids took the first one step, I was over joy and was sooo excited and of course I had to call everyone and my camera had to come out. I know the Dodgers still have a lot of work to do. Like a Kindergarten kid the big celebrating doesn’t happen for another 12 years but we still celebrate the accomplishments they do within those 12 years.
    When Hudson played for the cycle…that was amazing and I celebrated. When Kershaw pitched the 13 strike outs…I celebrated. When Ethier hits double homeruns per game I celebrated (this celebrating will continue cause I am sure he will get more in the future). When he finally got out of his slump…I was sooooooo happy and proud and I was celebrating. When Martin hit his first Home Run…I did not see it but I did celebrate right after I found out. The other day, when Martin was actually hitting the ball…I was also celebrating, regardless of how little of accomplishment they were. I was just soooo proud. When Kemp do his amazing catches, homeruns and of course his grand slam…..amazing, but he makes me want to keep celebrating. OK, OK I am going to come out and say it: But I even celebrate when JP does a great play…..yeah yeah I know, but regardless, it is contributing to a WIN. The whole THINK BLUE takes over me…LOL and we all know that feeling. When the Dodgers broke the home game winning streak…I sure did celebrate (but somehow it was cut short…booo).
    I DO NOT celebrate that fact that Manny did something illegal. I was mad and I hated the guy. Hated the fact the others were putting * next to a Dodger Player and Dodgers overall. He lost my respect to him and it will take a while before he can earn my total respect. But I do believe in 2nd chances. I also see what he is doing to the team and to the whole Dodgers organization. His grand slam was amazing. And what makes it amazing for me is that he had gotten hurt, we were tied 2 to 2, he was pinch hitting, fans were extremely loud (I believe the fans screaming really helped Manny get that energy to smack that ball out) and to make it more dramatic Reds made a pitcher switcher and on the first pitch….WHACK….ball was out into MANNYWOOD and the fans were roaring. That too me; is just a big reason to celebrate. This did not happen during a playoff game or during a World Series game…we were not loosing but it would have been in any of these situations, this grand slam would have been AMAZING.
    Now, it really bugs that the media tends to concentrate on Manny. It gets me mad that because of Manny, other players get over shadowed. But I know what they did and I will be here posting how exciting I was for whatever they did. I love the Dodgers (like ya’ll do). I AM AN ETHIERHOLIC & MARTINISTA but most important I AM A TRUE DODGER FAN. And the Dodgers are giving me a reason to keep celebrating. Now the big celebration has not yet happen but I hope it does cause I am soooooo ready for it. GOOOOOOO DODGERS!

  112. nellyjune

    You go girl!!!!!!!!! Rose – you and Dodger4life are the spirit leaders no doubt. Keep up the spirit. It is what makes this blog balanced and great!!!!!!!!!!

  113. rebsox

    I totally understand the mixed feelings about Manny; as a fan it was hard to not have them even before the steroids issue came up. I didn’t read through all 160+ comments, but I noticed someone mentioned seeing at a game, and that he seemed arrogant. Manny is a person with limitations just like everyone else, and it’s often hard to understand how a super-star can be so reticent… it might help to realize that Manny is extremely insecure socially. I think we’ve all known people in real life who appear snobby but are really just shy. Manny is very sensitive about what is said about him, and his English is not that good either, which is why he rarely makes himself available to media and avoids interaction with fans. It’s not that he doesn’t care or appreciate you; he’s just uncomfortable with strangers, which is a pretty common human condition.

    I don’t think we’ll ever know the whole story about the supplements Manny took, and it’s hard to know how to react as a fan. Just know that regardless of whether or not he cheated, Manny’s efforts extend way beyond muscle tone. He works harder to prepare for the game than most MLB players, even when his performance is peaking. Obviously I am a Red Sox fan, and am fortunate to not have to take a daily stance on this issue. For those of you who do, I’m sure it would be easier if he was more verbal about it so you could see some repentance… it’s just not in his personality to be able to give you that, but it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Hopefully you’ll give him a chance to make it up to you in the one place Manny speaks his heart: at the plate.

  114. thinkingblue

    Thanks NELLY! And what it is funny cause of Manny (like it or not) we are getting fans for other teams visiting ITD. And about the boooing…I don’t boo for my own team but IF the occasion calls for it…I will boo for the other team and even umps when they make a bad call against the Dodgers.
    So to other team’s fans…WELCOME!
    Also I see new ITD bloggers that are Dodger fans….WELCOME and you will love it here.

  115. trublu4ever

    GIVE ME A “R”; GIVE ME AN “O”‘; GIVE ME A “S”; GIVE ME AN “E”………..GO ROSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  116. dodgereric

    Gooooood morning, ITD!

    First, welcome to the jungle, cadams! Feel free to roll in here anytime and say anything you want. Unlike some blogs, the only (unofficial) rule we have here is to NOT attack the other bloggers. If anyone does it to you, wait and watch. We’ll be all over them! LOL!!

    Second, thanks for the insight rebsox. We’ve certainly heard that he’s a very hard worker. That’s what you hear about most anyone who has gotten to the level that he has.

    Third, what was Ramirez suspended for? He was suspended for having a prescription for the female hormone, which is on the banned list. He didn’t test positive for it, he just had a prescription. If my memory is correct (and many times it’s not) when all this came down it was revealed that his testosterone level was down, which is a common event after a steroid cycle. This depleted level can cause health problems. It could be (this is me thinking) that health issues pertaining to his low testosterone drove him to his doctor. His doctor found his problem and prescribed the female hormone without thinking about what he does for a living and that the hormone might be on the banned list. Again, this is just me thinking.

    Now before anyone starts calling me a Manny-apologist, I acknowledge that there is a nearly 100% possibility that he was using steroids. I’m just saying that he wasn’t suspended for steroid use and that’s a fact. Maybe it’s like Al Capone getting tossed into Alcatraz due to tax evasion, but he did serve his time. And time will tell if it costs him a plaque in Cooperstown.

    And finally, yes, it’s still early. But August starts the real pennant watch and we’re almost there. And if you can’t allow us to get excited about what happened on Wednesday, I have something for you with my next post.

    Now, GO DODGERS!! C’mon Kid! Let’s make it 6 straight tonight!

  117. dodgereric

    Beat It

    We told you, don’t you ever come around here
    Don’t wanna see your tag, you better hit delete
    The fire’s in our words and your team has met defeat
    So beat it, just beat it

    You better run, you’re just a miser’ble troll
    Your posts are really stale, just like a week-old roll
    You’re just a wretched clown, a poster boy for birth control
    So beat it, you don’t wanna be here

    Just beat it, beat it
    No one wants to be defeated
    Jhall will introduce you to pain
    Northstate will pick off what’s left of your brain
    Just beat it
    Just beat it
    Just beat it
    Just beat it

    You can’t upset us, better leave while you can
    Enchanted can destroy, you’ll wish that you had ran
    You wanna stay alive, better have a backup plan
    So beat it, just beat it

    You want to show us that you have a lot of flare
    You’re playin’ with your life, this ain’t no truth or dare
    They’ll kick you, and then they beat you,
    Then here comes ol’ messagebear
    So beat it, you don’t wanna go there

    Just beat it, beat it
    No one can be that conceited
    Showin’ how funky and strong is your fight
    He’ll make you wish you never learned how to write

    Just beat it, beat it
    Do you like to be mistreated
    Comin’ in here alone with your crap
    kahli will make you take a dirt nap
    Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it

    Beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
    Beat it, beat it
    Just beat it, beat it
    Mistakes shouldn’t be repeated
    Why do you need to troll around here
    lbirken’ll make you cry in your beer

    Just beat it, beat it
    Your brain cells must have been depleted
    Dodger4Life seems like a nice guy
    But disrespect us and you’ll learn how to fly

    Just beat it, beat it
    We all know that Manny cheated
    Like all the rest, excuses were lame
    He just might never make Hall of Fame

    Just beat it, beat it
    But if you’re nice you will be greeted
    Just say hello, just show us some class
    If you don’t, you’re out on your ***
    Just beat it, beat it
    Beat it, beat it, beat it

    By dodgereric on July 11, 2009 11:37 PM

  118. nellyjune

    rebsox – Thank you so much for your input. I was the one who said Manny “appeared” arrogant, and I did comment even about our own Dodger team that we really don’t know the full story on any of the players, just what we read and hear at times. I am currently reading a book about the Dodgers and their move from Brooklyn to Los Angeles, and things weren’t always rosy and happy in the clubhouse during the early years in Los Angeles (what I have read so far). So, thanks again for your input. We, as Dodger fans, have primarily only heard or read the negative things that Manny has done while in Boston, and I truly thank you for sharing some of the positives.

  119. thinkingblue

    REBSOX….I did not know that Manny was shy. But I do understand him. I am the same way. I have friends that told me that they thought I was a snob or conceited at first. But for the same reason…my English is a bit broken (not as bad a Manny) but I was made fun of growing up. Once they got to know me and I felt comfortable then they couldn’t get me to shut up…LOL! I am trying to be more social, Here at ITD I am fine since I am not talking…LOL. Well since Manny Joined the Dodgers I have not heard any negative comments regarding his personality. The few negative comments that I’ve heard are from Red Sox’s fans.

  120. thinkingblue

    ERIC – MANNY-APOLOGIST….is that a new term (well atleast is the first time I hear it). NICE ONE! And great job for the song. And yeah I want to add: don’t attack the “BLOGMASTER” Mr. Josh…LOL!
    TRU – Thanks for cheer and support….LET’S GO DODGERS!

  121. thinkingblue

    Atleast what’s his name from yesterday got something right….Josh is the Master of blogs….GOOOOOO JOSH!

  122. mattwest


    Great blog! I am a die hard Angel fan, and have a blog I’ve been working on. I would greatly appreciate if you could take a read and let me know what you think. Although I am an Angel fan, I do follow the Dodgers closely, and it’s a total revitalized attitude about them now with the addition of Manny and with the youngsters starting to play to their potential. A World Series clash would be awesome! Below is the link to my blog, I’m sure you’re insanely busy but I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

  123. rebsox

    Ah, well… it’s hard for red sox fans NOT to be bitter. After all, the team was forced to trade him under face value because he didn’t like US. We were too overbearing for him, and he wanted to go to the west coast where fans are a little more erm, low-key. It’s a natural reaction to feel hurt by this kind of rejection.
    Manny caused clubhouse problems and adverse fan reaction off and on over a number of years in Boston, and the “insight” I’ve been spewing here is just the bits and pieces I’ve collected from teammates’ comments about him over that time. When a player causes so many issues, sometimes you have to understand the WHO in order to get to the WHY.
    Dodgereric, I understand that most players that get to this level have put in a huge amount of effort… what I’m saying is that in the area of hitting, Manny takes this to the next level by employing some pretty unusual techniques. While steroids might improve your power, it does nothing for contact rates and hitter strategy, areas in which Manny has consistently excelled throughout his career. Ever notice him staring off into space shortly before the pitcher’s windup? He chooses a spot in the stands to focus his eyes at a specific distance in order to better recognize the pitch as it comes to him. He also has an exercise where he has someone throw a ring at him with different colored balls attached to it. While the ring is in the air, the person throwing calls out a color to indicate which ball Manny is to catch. Red Sox teammates have tried this exercise and claim it’s practically impossible, yet Manny catches the right ball almost every time.


    Holliday will be a significant addition to the Cards. I really don’t want to face them now in the NLCS without a premium added starting pitcher.

  125. nellyjune

    rebsox – you continue to impress. Thank you for the continued bits and pieces about Manny. Like Manny and his batting, I wish Juan Pierre would use his time more wisely and figure out how to throw the ball 🙂

  126. dodgereric

    reb, I wasn’t pooh-poohing your comment on Ramirez’ work ethic. If it came off that way, I apologize. And thanks for the insight on his methods! Very interesting!!

  127. perumike

    Good morning all! Glad to see you had a good discussion with rebsox. Glad to see we can discuss things with some fans without acting like trolls. You’re welcome to come on to discuss things anytime reb!

  128. phan52

    LOL!! eric, you said you wouldn’t, yet you did. On a grand scale even. That was sweet. Keep up the good work and I’ll make sure to continue giving you inspiration.
    BTW, Kirk Gibson and Steve Finley laugh at you.

  129. shad80

    I just love when pitchers hit a 3 run homeruns with 2 outs nothing is going right for the Cubs these day.

  130. nellyjune

    First, I want to thank rebsox for some great Manny insight.
    Understanding each others perspective is great!
    Cat has a done a fabulous job on her blog lately.
    Kirk Gibson’s moment will never be forgotten.
    You know we are behind our Dodgers in good times and bad
    Outstanding job on your blog Matt – the Angel’s Fanatic.
    Ultimately it would be great to have a west coast WS.
    Please, Ned, hold on to Kersh, Billz and the young guns.
    How is the feeling about Holliday being back in the NL?
    Absolutely awesome how ITD sticks together, and it’s
    Not a wise idea to attack one of our own.

    We love you Dodgereric!!!!! You are one of the reasons that ITD is the way it is today………………..a place where opinions are shared, laughter is shared, and stories are shared, both about baseball and just life in general (we have the best blog story ever I believe). I know you don’t need to read/hear it, but I just thought I (along with the rest of this ITD board) would let you know you are the best!!! You are truly respected by everyone on here, and I don’t think any regular ITDer would say otherwise.

  131. bluesplash09

    So i’m not too excited that we hae to see holliday 7 more times this year because we are yet to play the cards, however his numbers are wayyyy down from previous years and he said himself that he was pressing trying to impress his new team, welcome to team #2 this year matt, hopefully his struggles continue till after we face them, cause a holliday pujols combo is just scary. Btw, unless the winning run is on 3rd base we better walk pujols every time, that guy is unreal. GO DODGERS!!

  132. crzblue2

    Good morning ITD blogmates!
    Lots and lots of great posts here.
    Eric, I love the song that you just reposted. Is there an Elvis song? Just want to get in the mood for tonight’s fireworks music set to Elvis songs.
    I don’t find Manny shy with the fans especially if he is talking in Spanish but some people do hide it well that they are shy. I consider myself shy but I used to be way more shy. I think for a while it was the language barrier. You know one person that I always considered shy was Nomah.

  133. bluesplash09

    So i’m not too excited that we hae to see holliday 7 more times this year because we are yet to play the cards, however his numbers are wayyyy down from previous years and he said himself that he was pressing trying to impress his new team, welcome to team #2 this year matt, hopefully his struggles continue till after we face them, cause a holliday pujols combo is just scary. Btw, unless the winning run is on 3rd base we better walk pujols every time, that guy is unreal. GO DODGERS!!

  134. rebsox

    Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone. Not all fans of other teams are trolls, lol; when I saw your post on ballbug I could not resist letting you guys know that this behavior is characteristic of Manny. I am not a Manny apologist, and if probable supplement use makes him is dead in your eyes I would not dream to sway you… but I know how trying his personality can be to fans, and I hope this insight can ease some of your frustrations.
    Of course I will not be gracing your blog too often, I imagine… but the Dodgers have a warm spot in the hearts of many Red Sox fans, thanks to the McCourts (former sox fans) and their ongoing obsession with signing former Red Sox players;-) I wish you all a great finish to what has been a dominant season so far for your team.

  135. crzblue2

    lost my post with “too many posts from you…”.
    Anyway, I was saying Wow! Holliday to the Cardinals. in exchange for last year’s first round draft pick, Brett Wallace, minor league RHP Clayton Mortensen and minor league OFer Shane Peterson. To me, is not like the Cards to give so much prospect for a rental. .
    I was glad to have Holliday out of our division and now we have to face him wtih Pujols in the upcoming 4 game series at St Louis. I still remember when I went to St Louis for a four game series and we lost all of them. I know this is a different team and WE WILL DO BETTER. I am interesting to hear from my friends from MO that are big Cardinal fans and see how they feel about this.

  136. nellyjune

    bluesplash – It must really suck to be an A’s fan. They can’t hold onto anybody, and I wish Mark Ellis could find a home that has players that will stay. He deserves better than this. ………..and yes, a Pujols/Holliday combo can be scary.

    rebsox – You are welcome and I wish the best for your team as well. I would like nothing better than for you guys to finish ahead of the Yankees.

  137. thinkingblue

    REB – you are always welcome here! Thanks for sharing the DL on Manny.
    EMMA – I am with you….we need some BLUE Suede Shoes…some Elvis music to get the Friday Party Started! Love my NOMAH…
    BLUESPLASH – (love your name) Well hopefully the Dodgers survive the Holliday…Games are more interesting when we play a tough team. Makes our boys stronger and better for what’s to come in the future.

  138. bluesplash09

    If we can take 3 of 4 or sweep in st louis then we are well on our way to great things this year, the only team I would worry about facing in the playoffs after that would be the phillies IF they get halladay. hamels has our lineup figured out, (except Manny, but who really has) so a halladay hamels 1-2 punch would be a tough mountain to climb, thats why i think they want him, they know they have that division won but if they get us in the playoffs this year, they know the outcome will be different. GO DODGERS!!

  139. selltheteam

    I for one am not too terrified of Holliday. Most of his homeruns when with the Rockies came at the Colorado launching pad. If Joe ever got smart and sandwiched Manny between Kemp and Ethier, that would be a horrific trio (in the perspective of opposing teams).

  140. sparkleplenty_1

    Just catching up on all the comments here for the past few days. All I can say is “Wow!”
    First off, welcome to all the new people!
    rebsox, thank you for providing the great insight to Manny.
    Rose, I couldn’t say it better than you about celebrating ALL the successes our boys have. Thank you!
    Eric, Nelly and Trumom, as always, you are awesome!
    It’s a privilege to participate on a blog such as ITD and I’m very proud to be associated with it.

  141. selltheteam

    Another horrific trio would be Halladay, Kershaw, and Billz. Ned has 175 3/4 hours to get it done.

  142. dodgereric

    Everyone is welcome here reb, come back any time. I think I’d rather see the Dodgers play the Red Sox than the Angels. Would that ever be wild? LOL!!

    Emma, there are a ton of Elvis songs on our blog. I used to have them in the Tag Cloud, but it’s limited to 25 (I think) and I’d rather have our own tags. Most of them are probably among the oldest posts.

    June Darlin’, what can I say, other than THANK YOU and you’re amazing! LMAO!!!

  143. trublu4ever

    Good Afternoon ITDland ~ I just want to concur with NallyJune’s post about Dodgereric. He is one of a kind and we are lucky to have him. Brownpaperbag, aka, Enchanted along with MANY bloggers here are very special and that is what make others envious of our BOARD. That’s why is is a pleasure to welcome REB and others who have joined us.

  144. crzblue2

    “Wow” is a word that we been using a lot lately 🙂
    Yes, we need to get the party started! Blue Suede Shoes sound great.

    well, I better get some work done or else I can get in trouble.


  145. crzblue2

    thanks Eric! I know I remember reading Blue Suede Shoes some time ago.
    But Holliday never hit behind Pujols.

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