The humor in the situation…

If you don’t just laugh at this point, you’d pull all your hair out!!

This from the satirical newspaper, The Onion…

WASHINGTON–After a series of closed-door talks, Scott Boras, the agent known for representing the highest-paid players in baseball, set another record for the game’s largest contract when he finalized Manny Ramirez’s $20 billion agreement with the United States federal government on Thursday. “Manny’s .396 batting average last season with the Dodgers, as well as his playoff performance, proved that he is as important to this country as infrastructure projects, health care, and renewable energy development,” Boras said during an interview, adding that Ramirez is especially satisfied with the indefinite length of the contract. “He’s promised to cut 47 hours of antics this year and to make necessary attitude adjustments in order to remain solvent. Any criticism Manny receives for this contract is simply what comes with getting a huge amount of money from the government during a time of crisis.” A clause in the contract states Ramirez could receive an additional $6 billion if he successfully saves the American auto industry

0 comments

  1. Dodger4life

    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 3: Pat Misch Pitching:
    Tony Abreu puts out
    Furcal walks
    Hudson walks, Furcal to second
    Martin doubles to deep center, Furcal and Hudson score, 3-0 Dodgers
    Loretta bloops a single to left, Martin to third
    DeWitt infield single to third, Martin scores, Loretta to second, 4-0 Dodgers
    Young singles to center, Loretta scores, DeWitt to second, 5-0 Dodgers
    Repko pops to second
    Paul singles to left, DeWitt scores, Young to second, 6-0 Dodgers
    Abreu flies to center
    5 runs 5 hits 2 LOB End of 2 1/2 6-0 Dodgers

  3. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 3: Jeff Weaver Pitching:
    Travis Ishikawa strikes out swinging
    Kevin Frandsen walks on four pitches
    Rich Aurilia pops to right
    Winn flies to Young in left
    0 runs 0 hits 1 LOB End of 3 6-0 Dodgers

  4. scurtis1999

    That’s 25 million Manny. Sign the damn contract.

    If he doesn’t sign I will personally take a dump and mail it to Boras. lol

  5. oldbrooklynfan

    I prefer The Dodger broadcasters but I always like to listen to John Miller, which I never knew that he called games for the Giants.

  6. alex41592

    Spring Training Updates: Top 4: Kevin Pucetas Pitching
    Furcal flies to center
    Hudson singles to left
    Martin walks on four pitches, Hudson to second
    Loretta 5-3 DP
    0 runs 1 hit 1 LOB End of 3 1/2 6-0 Dodgers

  7. nellyjune

    joepierre – I agree with you in listening to John Miller in small doses, but living with gnat fans, I listen to him more than I should probably.

  8. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 4: Eric Stults Pitching: Hu replaces Hudson at 2B, DeJesus replaces Furcal at SS:
    Renteria walks
    Lewis lines to right
    Molina flies to right
    Sandoval flies to right
    0 runs 0 hits 1 LOB End of 4 6-0 Dodgers

  9. oldbrooklynfan

    Nelly
    This is the first time I heard him speak outside of on T.V. He’s very pleasant. Joe Morgan doesn’t work for Giants, Does he?

  10. Dodger4life

    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. northstateblues

    Jon Miller is definitely better than Mike Krukow and Dave Kuiper (the Giants’ cable tv announcers). I swear those two want to put on masks and ump the game.

  12. alex41592

    Spring Training Updates: Top 5: Kevin Pucetas Pitching:
    DeWitt grounds to second
    Young strikes out swinging
    Repko grounds out to short
    0 runs 0 hits 0 LOB End of 4 1/2 6-0 Dodgers

  13. nellyjune

    joepierre – He is pretty pleasant until a gnat hits a homerun – LOL. I guess I just associate him with the gnats so I have mixed feelings about him. I am sure gnat fans feel the same way when they hear our announcers (Vin excluded – at least my family anyway).

  14. northstateblues

    JoePierre, yeah, they’re terrible. Like a couple of kids snapping towels in the locker room during P.E.

    I’ll usually turn on the Gameday Audio and listen to Vin, Charley and Rick on 45 second delay while muting the TV, that does the trick.

  15. enchantedbeaver

    Me thinks Stults just pitched his way out of contention for the 5th spot (not that he ever really had a legitimate chance anyway.)

  16. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 5: Eric Stults Pitching: A.J Ellis at catcher:
    Rowand homers to deep left, 6-1 Dodgers
    Ishikawa doubles to right
    Frandsen doubles to the gap, Ishikawa scores, 6-2 Dodgers
    Aurilia bloops a single over Hu, Frandsen to third
    Winn hits a sacrifice fly to center, Frandsen scores, 6-3 Dodgers
    Juan Uribe bloops a single to shallow right, Aurilia to second
    Lewis singles to right, Aurilia scores, Uribe to third, 6-4 Dodgers
    Scott Strickland relieves Stults
    With Steve Holm batting Lewis steals second
    Holm reaches on fielding error on Delwyn Young, bases loaded
    Sandoval on a full count strikes out swinging
    Rowand pops to DeJesus at short
    4 runs 6 hits 3 LOB End of 5 6-4 Dodgers

  17. oldbrooklynfan

    I thought I’d leave with a comfortable lead but, It looks like a close game.
    Have to go.
    Hope we find out about Manny tonight.
    See Yas

  18. nellyjune

    …so is it too late to look into getting Cruz? I am with dodgereric and the rest. With or without Manny, pitching is the bigger issue I think 🙂

  19. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 6: Bob Howry Pitching:
    Paul flies to center
    Abreu grounds to short
    DeJesus strikes out swinging
    0 runs 0 hits 0 LOB End of 5 1/2 6-4 Dodgers

    Subs are in now, back on Saturday.

  20. shad78

    CAC
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
    – – – – – – – – – – – –
    LA DODGERS 1 0 5 0 0 6 7
    SAN FRANCISCO 0 0 0 0 4 4 6 (END BOTTOM 5)

    HOME RUNS: LAD – RUSSELL MARTIN (1) OFF MATT CAIN IN THE 1ST
    SFO – AARON ROWAND (1) OFF ERIC STULTS IN THE 5TH

    Updated on Thursday, Feb 26, 2009 5:06 p

  21. robertvann34@msn.com

    I was wondering for the guys that the Padres were trying to get out of the Cubs and the Braves for Jake Peavy. Then why wouldnt a deal be possible that included Dewitt, Greg Miller plus another one of the minor league prospects 3B’s that the Dodgers have a plethera for? Especially since we no have Hudson, Lowetta, and T Abreau back???? Or would Abreau be more appealing either way it would give the Padres 3 young inexpensive talented ballplayers for Peavy. It would allow for Chad B to grow into a very solid ace while watching one of the league’s best.

  22. robertvann34@msn.com

    Yeah but didnt they trade Maddux last year and didnt they ask the Dodgers during the GM Meetings this past winter what they could offer?

  23. enchantedbeaver

    I think Ned will come up with another SP during the season, but for now that price would be too high. Hudson’s a 1-year rental, so you’ll have to have DeWitt and/or Abreu for next year. Always a good chance Furcal breaks down as well. Plus being a division rival, Peavy actually would require more the likes of a Kershaw or Kemp.

    I believe they’ll be plenty of, lets say better-than-average pitchers (maybe not all aces) available near the deadline for less cost (if Frank’s willing to absorb some salary.)

  24. shad78

    I would love to see this
    Starting Rotation
    C. Billingsley
    H. Kuroda
    C. Kershaw
    R. Wolf
    J. Schmidt (this is the biggest if in the rotation I have faith in the first 4 if Wolf stay healthy/McDonald(would love to see what he can do a full year but it might not happen or mayeb it will.)

  25. shad78

    Greg David Miller (born November 3, 1984 in Orange, California) is a Major League Baseball pitching prospect in the Los Angeles Dodgers minor league system. He was on the fast track to the majors in ’03, but a shoulder injury in the spring of ’04 slowed him.

    Miller attended Esperanza High School, where he went 9-4 with a 1.50 ERA, 137 strikeouts and just 20 walks in 84 innings as a senior. He was selected by the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1st round of the 2002 draft.

    He started his first professional campaign in 2002 with the rookie league Great Falls Dodgers, helping them capture the Pioneer League Championship. Named by Baseball America as the league’s eight-best prospect.

    In 2003, he was honored as the Dodger organizations Minor League Pitcher of the Year after going 12-5 with a 2.21 ERA and 151 strikeouts in 142.1 innings for Single-A Vero Beach and Double-A Jacksonville. He was also named to the Florida State League All-Star team and the Baseball America 1st team Minor League All-Stars.

    Entered the 2004 season rated by Baseball America as the #2 prospect and as having the best curveball and slider in the Dodger system.[1]

    His career was derailed when he missed the entire 2004 season while recovering from spring training shoulder surgery.

    Miller returned to action at the end of 2005, pitching in 12 games in Jacksonville’s bullpen and recording 2 saves.

    Pitched in relief for Triple-A Las Vegas in 2006. In 2007, the Dodgers attempted to return Miller to his starting role with the 51s but he struggled, accumulating a record of 1-1 with an era of 7.85 in 14 appearances with the 51s, including 7 starts. He was subsequently demoted to Jacksonville, where he improved slightly, finishing 1-2 with a 4.69 ERA in twenty games (seven starts) for the Suns.

    In 2008, he was back at Las Vegas, working out of the bullpen for the 51s.

  26. selltheteam

    Looks like perumike still has a chance at the Manny sweepstakes, but Manny better hurry up. Using closest time, perumike is on the clock until 2:00 am tonight (early tomorrow morning). Then shepard is on the clock. Or it could drag on….

  27. robertvann34@msn.com

    I realize that he would cost but if you look at the prospects that are coming up and the current contracts of Furcal, Blake and Hudson they just log jammed the farm clubs. Not including DeWitt and Abreau,

    There is Josh Bell, DeJesus, Hu, Gallagher, and Pedrozza all who are at the top of the infield prospects and should be ready within the next 2-4 years. This doesnt include 1st basemen or the pitchers that are on their way like Withrow, Miller, lindblom, St. clair, McDonald, Elbert, and Martin.

    I also realize that it is very important to keep the minor leagues loaded, but a guy like Peavy who is a great competitor and who is loyal to a fault would be a type of player you would want in the clubhouse. If the Padres opened the door because they are having money troubles, then wouldnt that mean that they cant be that picky who they deal with. They are looking at least to 2-3 years before they will be competitive and possibly longer before they can compete for a solid playoff spot.

  28. selltheteam

    A quote from the Press Enterprise (Diamond Leung):
    .
    “There’s no clock on baseball,” Colletti said. “You can play as many innings as it takes to get it resolved.”
    .
    So Ned knows something about baseball?

  29. trublu4ever

    Steve phillips of ESPN says we should know by later tonight or tomorrow on Manny……….and, he believes he will take the deal.

  30. dodgereric

    Ned also says there’s 4 balls, 3 strikes and 90 feet between the bases. There’s no doubt he’s been doing his homework.

  31. shad78

    CAC FINAL
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
    – – – – – – – – – – – –
    LA DODGERS 1 0 5 0 0 0 4 0 6 16 17 1
    SAN FRANCIS 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 2 0 7 12 1 FINAL

    WP – RANDY WOLF (1-0)
    LP – MATT CAIN (0-1)

    HOME RUNS: LAD – RUSSELL MARTIN (1) OFF MATT CAIN IN THE 1ST
    VALENTINO PASCUCCI (1) OFF SERGIO ROMO IN THE 9TH
    CHIN-LUNG HU (1) OFF SERGIO ROMO IN THE 9TH
    SFO – AARON ROWAND (1) OFF ERIC STULTS IN THE 5TH

    TIME: 3:08 ATT: 5,803

  32. kpookiemon

    I would NOT trade Blake DeWitt. I think he’s a special player and Hudson and Furcal could both be gone for the season by week 2. Besides, Hudson’s only here for one season, anyway. Peavy may be good…but he’s a pitcher coming off a stint on the DL and a punk, to boot!

  33. enchantedbeaver

    Pierre leading off, 3 runs. Pierre nowhere near the line-up, 16 runs. = You make the call.

    LMAO crash! If he does it’d be news to him!!

  34. enchantedbeaver

    BTW robertvann34, welcome to ITD!!

    If you’re not new, I obviously suffer from Altzheimers (just like Joe.)

  35. nellyjune

    Good Evening ITD readers and writers!!!!

    Welcome robertvann!!!

    enchanted – you still aren’t feeling the JP love are you? It’s okay, it ain’t happening for me ethier.

  36. trublu4ever

    Good evening Nellyjune and Enchanted ~ Just think, if Manny is a Dodger tomorrow……….you won’t have to worry about Juan!
    .
    I want to welcome you, too, Robertvann.

  37. northstateblues

    Thanks Tru! Just felt it’s silly of me not to have done anything over the past month. not EVERYTHING has to have a drawing, but it’s nice to do one every now and again.

  38. Dodger4life

    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  39. colliethec

    I’m a little worried. If Manny was going to take the contract why hasn’t he done it yet. If there aren’t any other takers.
    .
    I just really think there might be someone else biding on him.
    .
    That or BorASS is going to other teams asking if they want to up the ante.
    .
    The only thing that makes me think that the Giants aren’t going to sign him was listening to the Giants managing partners this morning on their station. He didn’t sound like he was that interested in Manny.
    .
    He said he would sign a Barry Bonds to that kind of money because he was a 5 tool player. That Manny isn’t a 5 tool player & thus isn’t worth that kind of money. He also said the fans like homegrown talent more and so they would be focusing on that. He didn’t rule out signing Manny but he was very doubtful.
    .
    I think I’m going to have a sleepless night!

  40. nellyjune

    dcollins……..I think the same thing as you. I think Boras is using the little interest the gnats did have and making it bigger than what it really is.

    ….why hasn’t he taken it already? ….a very good question

  41. northstateblues

    Dcollins, I think it’s a smoke screen. I think the reason the sports media hasn’t uncovered this “team” is because we have as good a chance of finding his “other team” as O.J. has of finding the “real killers”.

    I’m guessing if there is “another team” that they’re talking to, it’s the Giants, and you already said the extent of their interest, heheheh.

  42. northstateblues

    oh, and why he hasn’t taken it yet is probably because Boras is doing the “going once… going twice… going 2 and a half… going 2 and three-quarters… going 2 and 27/32’s…”

  43. Dodger4life

    I think he is close to accepting the terms but it is a tough decision, not what he had planned but with out another offer it is not gonna improve, only worsen 🙂
    .
    COME BACK MANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WE LOVE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. shepherd96

    One critical question is: does Manny want to come to ST?

    Manny misses the adoring fans, while Boras wants to practice the art of postponement in negotiations. You never know when a middle-of-the-order OF gets hurt.

    I feel a Sweepstakes title coming!

  45. nellyjune

    Are you kidding me? Why can’t we get this thing over with already. This is just nonsense. Talk amongst yourselves. I gotta go pick up my daughter. I will be back shortly – geez!!!!!!! Can I use jhall’s term? This un****ingbelieveable!!!!!! I understand the whole not wanting to go to ST thing, but this is just maddening to say the very least.

  46. nellyjune

    LOL!!!! shepherd. I think enchanted (or someone further down the line) has a shot at it now if ST is really the issue.

  47. Dodger4life

    I hate to say it…..so maybe I’ll think about it first??? Hmmmmm………
    .
    I will say GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    BRING THE RING TO L.A. IN 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. northstateblues

    It’s gotta be they’re waiting on a high-profile OFer to get hurt during Training, so that they’ll have another kid in the sandbox to compete with.

    With every offer turned down, I have a feeling fans are going to re-evaluate how they feel about him… especially for that contract. Can those two REALLY be sure that all Dodger fans will rejoice after the signing like the winged monkeys after the Wicked Witch of the West melted?

    I’ll be happy, but I can’t speak for everyone.

  49. shepherd96

    I can.

    When those 30 or more taters go flying, we’ll all be cheering, even if he signs on March 27 and misses all but the Angels preseason freeway series.

  50. edog07

    I think I will be happy if it gets done also but I do find myself angered by this process. The Dodgers have been using the Stadium for extra things like concerts and the WBC not to mention the fact that the signing means more playoff games. So I don’t think money should be an option. On the other hand how do Manny and Boras turn down every offer with nothing on the back burner?

    Even if a OFer gets hurt in training what team can give him 3 or 4 years at 25+ Million per year. I would say the Yankees but I am thinking they are done spending. I just think its greed at its worst. I love watching him play but every day hitting refresh waiting for something to happen makes me wish a little more we would have signed Abreu…

  51. edog07

    “We love Manny Ramirez,” said Dodgers Owner Frank McCourt, “And we want Manny back, but we feel we are negotiating against ourselves. When his agent finds those ‘serious offers’ from other clubs, we’ll be happy to re-start the negotiations.
    “Even with an economy that has substantially eroded since last November, out of respect for Manny and his talents, we actually improved our offer.
    “So now, we start from scratch.”

    From Tony Jacksons Blog…

    Sounds like McCourt is angered.

  52. edog07

    Negotiating involves counter offers and leverage. Boras has not countered anything as far as we know, and they have no leverage. They are pissing on their only bed.

    (Sorry the news has apparently angered me. I will cool down…)

  53. shepherd96

    Or I should say it’s negotiating when you don’t feel the need for ST.

    I don’t think the real goal is 4 years at $25+ mill per year. I think the goal is as much as Boras can get. It may shake out at 3 years $69 Mill.

  54. shepherd96

    Incidntally, we should start another Sweepstakes for the final total. I predicted 3 years and $69 million total a few months ago. Even if I’m lousy at the timing, I still think that may get the deal done.

  55. edog07

    Is it like the Price is Right, can I take $1. I think it will take much longer than we would all hope. Hoping before the season starts but who knows. I like McCourts comment about Boras showing him the serious offers from other clubs. I remember an interview with manny shortly after he came to LA and was telling everyone how much he loved it there. Someone asked him if he would want to sign with LA in the offseason even if they could not offer max. His answer was something to the point of I have made a lot of money already.

    Apparently not enough.

    I predict
    3 years 72 Million

  56. edog07

    Warm only at first… lol

    On the good side, way to go Dodgers sticking it to the Giants.. Spring Training but still looks good to see.

  57. kpookiemon

    I say, bye bye, ta-ta, see-ya-later Manny. What’s the worst thing that can happen? The Dodgers don’t win a World Championship? Gosh almighty. Juan Pierre plays 150 games? Well, now you’re talking…but seriously, I’ll still get a kick out of the young guns mature and carve a dynasty–and watching Manny squirm as February turns into March …and then Spring…and then… Oh, he’ll sign with someone, because he wants his career stats and can’t afford to waste a year at age 37. But if there is karma, he’ll end up signing for less than the $20 million he “opted” out of Boston for, and Boras will choke on a dollar bill. Manny was a blazing meteor…a So. Cal. phenomenon…but that light show has fizzled and left only black smoke and ill will. It’s over. Let’s move on. The only thing that heals the wounds now is if, God forbid, Manny speaks on his won behalf and clarifies his stance. So long as Boras remains the mouthpiece, only pollution can fill the air.

  58. shepherd96

    Well Kahli, if you say pollution and millions of $$, I would agree.

    Jay Leno once said, “We Angelinos never trust any air we can’t see!”

  59. edog07

    ARod had to go around Boras to get the deal he wanted. Maybe Manny needs to do the same. Boras and the Dodgers are not good friends.

  60. nellyjune

    LMAO!!!! Shepherd. Before I say yes, let me check with the Bank of Dodgereric to see if we can work something out. However, last time I checked, Perumike was going to owe the Bank of Dodgereric 60 cents.

  61. shepherd96

    What if it’s Manny who doesn’t want to play in ST. Joe talked about Dick Allen holding out several times, just to avoid ST.

    I remember reading Koufax’ autobiography. He considered negotiations to be a game. He liked to hold out and considered it to be sport.

    One difference is that Koufax would end up signing for $125,000

  62. kpookiemon

    Can you imagine the nad it would take for the Dodgers to say, “We are moving on. We wish Manny the best.” There is NO WAY ANY TEAM would pony up more cash…if anything, they’d offer less. Boras would have overplayed his hand. BUST! The last time that happened was…now let’s see…oh, yeah, last year, when the Yankees told Boras and A-Rod to jump in the lake. Too bad A-Rod was able to weasel his way back in, much to the humiliation of Scotty. Gosh…do I sound bitter or anything?

  63. kpookiemon

    If not Manny, then play a kid…Repko, Paul, DY. Why waste time on Pierre if you’re Joe? Wait, check that. I answered my own question……… If Manny wanted to be a Dodger he would be by now. It appears he simply wants top money. Believe a man at his word. When the season ended a reporter asked Manny if he could be happy anywhere else and he said (and I paraphrase) “I have a good time wherever I play.”

  64. colliethec

    Pedro Gomez just reported that if the Dodgers would offer 2 years at $25 per Manny would probably take it.
    .
    So we’re off by about 5 million.
    .
    I think they should then offer him 25 for 2 years and take off his option after the 1st year.
    .
    To me if that doesn’t get it done, then don’t do it and have a great summer Manny.
    .
    I’m getting really getting hacked off now.
    .
    He is going to grumble for $5 million. Yes that’s a lot of money but on the way home tonight I heard the Giants signed the Cy young winner to a 1 year extension for $600,000. & I thought about that. That is like 10+ years of my salary. He is getting that for 1 year. Wow!
    .
    Then Manny is basically guaranteed for 25 + 20 million if he wants it.
    .
    If he liked it here so much then why doesn’t he sign? So he’s going to go somewhere else for a few million dollars more? That means either he didn’t like it so much or he is just plain greedy. My guess is both.
    .
    It was fun watching him last year and he built up much goodwill with us fans, but I think we are seeing him for who he really is.
    .
    Manny is an amazing hitter and entertaining to watch but he is really showing what he is all about. I’m starting to think I don’t want that on my team.
    .
    They have given them 4 different offers and been rejected on all of them. From what I’ve heard all they’ve asked for back in the return negotiatons is they still want 4-5 years @ $25 per year. That isn’t happening from anyone else. They have asked for the opt out clause which they were given. The Dodgers have offered something very close dollars and that he can get a new contract for that amount or more in a year or 2 depending on if they opt out.
    .
    I know baseball is a business and this is part of it, but it really is to the point where I’m turned off.
    .
    I’m starting to think it’s time for me to just watch little league because I’m really getting bent!!!

  65. shepherd96

    Look at it this way:

    The Dodgers haven’t changed their offer financially, either. They’ve just changed the terms, add an option here or there, but no money.

    It’s a game and a pride thing. On both sides.

  66. shepherd96

    As far as comparing with your salary, this isn’t your work league. This is entertainment. You should be smiling dammit!

    🙂

  67. colliethec

    Comparing the salary is just the thought that went through my mind when I heard the contract for Lincecom and I thought about how much money that is. I know they generate tons of money and work pretty much every day for 6-7 months. But when it’s getting tight for everyone many are pay check to paycheck and they are just plain greedy then, well, I’m not smiling.
    .
    I know the business of baseball & sports but I think it’s getting a little bit crazy and for me really tainting something that I’ve loved all my life.
    .
    I’m sorry but there is something in it that just doesn’t sit right in my stomach with this.

  68. nellyjune

    I am thinking enchanted on the 13th now. It’s a perfect day for Manny to sign…..Friday the 13th because this is so much like a nightmare right now…

  69. bluesplash09

    I really thought it was gonna get done this time, i say 1 more offer and then cut ties completely. It’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth at this point and getting to where I don’t want him to play for us. I know all of us on here are hardcore Dodger fans so we’ve been keeping up with this saga nonstop and are pretty ticked at this time, but what about the average fan? will they be pissed or just happy to see him if he does sign. I dont want there to be any booo’s when he comes to bat the first time at Dodger stadium this year (unless he’s with another team) I hate to see a Dodger boo’ed at home, it was even hard for me to watch jones get boo’ed last year. So at what point is this not worth it anymore, we ARE going back to the playoffs, the only competition will be the dbacks and I dont think their offense will keep up with their pitching. Getting there won’t be the issue but we will miss Manny a lot come the postseason I believe. These are the ramblings of a very confused albeit loyal Dodger fan that is tired of this issue….btw, 16 runs on the gnats today, hahahahaha

  70. colliethec

    Splash — Good post & I agree completely. I also think the Gnats are improved and with their starting pitching they will be in every game.
    .
    I will never boo a Dodger. No matter who they are. I might not cheer for them or applaud for them, but I will never boo them.
    .
    I didn’t & wouldn’t boo Jones last year when I saw him. It is extremely rare for me to boo someone. But I might boo him this year if I see him.

  71. heartruss

    The Dodgers will win the Western Division this coming season is my prediction, with or without Manny. We have hitting anyway. Pitching will be the big surprise. I know it will be a good season. GO DODGERS!

  72. dodge1612

    screw money ramirez… move on play pierre for all I care… screw money, he doenst want to play in LA he wants to get paid in LA… lets move on

  73. nellyjune

    dcollins – that sure was telling, wasn’t it? Like many have said tonight once the offer was declined once again. If Manny really wanted to be a Dodger,he would be one already, right?

  74. colliethec

    I got this from a link from D4.
    .
    It is a statement earlier today from the Giants president.
    .
    Giants president Larry Baer said he exchanged messages with agent Scott Boras on Wednesday, but nothing had changed. Boras did not solicit an offer and Baer said the Giants have not made an official one.

    “We haven’t been asked to make an offer in the last couple of days,” Baer said Thursday. “I don’t want to characterize it beyond that. People are saying it’s accelerated (with the Dodgers). I can’t tell you there’s any difference today than a week ago. There may be, but it hasn’t been communicated to us.”
    .
    The comment “We haven’t been asked to make an offer in the last couple of days…” to me means BorASS is trying to play the Giants vs the Dodgers to generate more money. To me it sounds as if BorASS is going to other teams saying do you want to make an offer???

  75. colliethec

    Yup Nelly. I was thinking that this morning! & I’m still thinking it now.
    .
    Shep — if you’re still there, sorry if I wasn’t nice. It wasn’t meant towards you!!! I wasn’t upset with you buddy. I’m just a little hacked at watching the news & the world events and then go to something for fun and to escape and see the greed and it just gets to be bothersome.
    .
    I was just venting here…

  76. nellyjune

    I almost feel like Boras is daring the Dodgers not to sign him. It’s like he thinks we can’t do this without Manny, which maybe we can’t, but I have no doubts, Manny or not, our young core is going to give it all they got. The only fear is Manny becoming a gnat……any other team, not a problem, but the gnats, that would lead to some serious fan issues.

  77. redfox@q.com

    It’s time to forget Manny and move on. A man of his self-centered greed and character is not worth pursuing, regardless of how well he can hit. His value on the current market is nowhere near what the Dodgers have offered him, so I hope Frank and Ned have finally had enough and let him sit out the season. No other team is going to give him the kind of contract that he wants, so the Dodgers are fools if they even repeat their current offer.

  78. nellyjune

    We are forgetting the really important things……who cares about Manny. Andre is hurt – LOL!!!!! I didn’t know about that until after school sometime. I should be ashamed for not keeping up with my status of Ethieraholic – LOL!!!!!!! I know it’s nothing serious, but when I first heard it, I thought of perumike and his pianos and perhaps one of them landing on the wrong guy 🙂

  79. colliethec

    Good article D4.
    .
    I’m over it now. I feel that if they get him great. If they don’t great.
    .
    I’m just going to focus on who we have and enjoy their efforts like the one today against the Gnats!!
    .
    Yes it was ST but if they lost I’d be hearing nothing but grief tomorrow at work.
    .
    I even am still having them do their usual “Dodgers S***k” comments. Which I don’t understand seeing as they were one of the worst teams last year & we were a few wins from the World Series. I just let them know I’d be as bitter as well, if my team had never won. Ever…

  80. nellyjune

    ….it is a good thing to have in your back pocket in case the gnat fans in the house start talking about the Dodgers.

  81. Dodger4life

    ST or Little League, I want the Dodgers to prevail dcollins I’m with ya!! Let Manny be stressed. I believe in MY BELOVED DODGERS REGARDLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    I still consider Manny a DODGER but I have moved on.
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    FIRE SCOTT BORAS MANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  82. Dodger4life

    Good Night ITD Dodgerfaithful,
    .
    We have seen bleaker situations than this with more urgency. When Tommy summoned Kirk Gibson to the plate in 88, we were supposedly out matched with no hope. Kirk hobbled his way to the plate and came through, we shall do the same again. Things can look one way one moment and totally different the next, unless you just give up.
    THE DODGERS WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    We have some talented ball players, and Manny has the chance to be a part of it if he so choses. If not we are still the Dodgers damn it, and the Dodgers will do what the Dodgers need to do.
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    BRING THE RING TO L.A. IN 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    Have a great day today and GOD BLESS THE U.S.A. and ALL OF US AS WELL 🙂

  83. Dodger4life

    MY apologies to anyone who did mention the fact that we BEAT THE GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    I LOVE TO SAY THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  84. nellyjune

    Good Night ITD readers and writers!!!!! Great stuff dodger4life. You are remarkable!!! Take Care, Sweet Dodger Dreams and God Bless to all 🙂

  85. sparkleplenty_1

    As we all know, it’s been a very long time since the Dodgers have had a legitimate superstar on the roster. It was great having Manny fill those shoes last year. From all that I’ve read this evening, it looks like Boras has left the door open, so there’s still hope for those of us who want Manny on the team. But let’s not forget that if Ned hadn’t answered his phone last July, we would not be having this discussion. And we wouldn’t be going through these emotional ups and downs. Oh yeah, I’m not happy about the situation, but, then again, what do I know? It’s doubtful that the media is being given all the particulars, so we only get tidbits of information and our imaginations take over. Aarrrrgghhhh! It’s gotta get better. My only consolation is that it ain’t over til it’s over.

  86. kpookiemon

    Here’s hoping every owner in baseball comes up with a phantom “sore ear” every time Boras dials the telephone. Collusion? YOU BET!

  87. bluesplash09

    Ok, I just got off of work, no resolution yet but from the latest article it seems they reached an agreement on the money and years but some of the other terms wern’t quite right, so they are going to talk untill 12 tommorrow afternoon. Hopefully when I wake up some form of agreement is made, I want him back but my patience is almost up. GO DODGERS!! GO DODGERS!!

  88. knouffbrock@frontiernet.net

    I want him back as bad as anyone else, but this is enough. How much money can he spend in a year anyway? If they were offered the moon, would they take that? It’s time for the Kids to step. Forget those jerks.

  89. trublu4ever

    Good morning ITDland ~ So, the latest offer was rejected…what else is new? However, as bluesplash mentioned, both sides will talk today. Same old story. I wanted Manny probably more than anyone did but, I am getting a little “miffed” at this whoe situation. It’s so frustrating to get your hopes up time after time and then have them shot to hell.

  90. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    Are the Dodgers trying to be too cute in dealing with Manny? They want to defer his wages. Now the giants are back in the game.

    What is with this 20 billion thing?

  91. enchantedbeaver

    All I’ve got to say is…

    Now batting second for your Los Angeles Dodgers, left fielder, #9, JUAN PIERRE.

    LMAO!!

  92. thinkingblue

    Good (?) Morning ITD’rs
    *
    I can not believe Manny rejected the offer….man if he does goes and plays for the Giants….OH MAN…I think L.A. will BOOOOOOO him each time he steps to the plate. And it will be LOUD! Well hopefully today they come to an agreement. If not then JP will get his way…
    *
    Hopefully Ethier ankle is doing better. I know it is a minor injury but hey, he still needs to take GOOD care of it.
    *
    Martin my man a home run on the 1st inning…yeah baby! Hopefully he does the same once we start the real games…
    *

  93. thinkingblue

    I have a question….when JP was playing outfield (before Manny came into the picture)…did JP joined Ethier & Kemp on the jump-turned-bump move they do at the end of the games?

  94. nellyjune

    Good Morning ITD readers and writers!!!!

    enchanted – still no love for JP? This is my biggest problem with the whole thing is I don’t want to go through another year of this. Andre is not part of the equation this year, and it is still bothering me so it has nothing to do with Andre vs. JP, like it appeared last year.

    Good Morning Rose, dcollins and trublu!!! dcollins, are we doing better this morning?

  95. messagebear@msn.com

    I had had it with Manny quite a while ago, but I have to give him one thing on this latest offer, if the reporting of terms is correct. How would you like to be one of Frank’s creditors – unsecured, which is what this deferred payment business is. I think Manny may have more cash on hand than Frank. I think Frank is so underfinanced now that the hard times are hitting in the real estate field, I wouldn’t trust him for a dime into the future. The guy’s going belly up, I hope, and that’s why he’s pulling all these deferred payment deals.

    SELL THE TEAM, you owner FREAK!!!

  96. nellyjune

    dcollins – I just skimmed through the article, and just perhaps, that does make sense.

    So, with that said, who’s on the clock now?

  97. shepherd96

    If it happens, I will just state with perfect confidence:

    I KNEW IT ALL ALONG!

    |;^]>

    And if you beleive that, “there’s this bridge in Brooklyn…”

  98. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    The Dodgers have made 4 offers to Manny they knew he wouldn’t accept is how I see it.

    Someone said:

    It’s time to forget Manny and move on. A man of his self-centered greed and character is not worth pursuing, regardless of how well he can hit. His value on the current market is nowhere near what the Dodgers have offered him

    They offered him 10 million dollars to play next year with the rest of the money coming later. So his check by the dodgers in 2009 would be a tad smaller than Juan Pierre’s 10.1 million and 5 million less than Schmidt. So..rethink that. Pay him or Don’t is fine, but the dodgers are lame.

  99. leekfink

    Hi folks–
    .
    It’s been a long time since I have posted–with some interesting work last fall and various travel, I have not been able to check in as much. But Spring is in the air, and you gotta love it.
    .
    As for the Manny deal–I say Bravo! to Frank, Ned and the organization. I think we should, and probably will, sign Manny soon, but obviously some lessons have been learned.
    .
    First, long-term contracts for players in their late-30’s is just not a good idea. Perhaps it took a recession for people to figure this out, but 36-year-old Manny was seeking a contract that would have him playing until he is 42. Now, it’s entirely possible that he will, and certainly some great players (which Manny is) have played that long, ane even at good or great levels. (Though, that raises two questions–was that aided by steroids and is Manny aided by steroids?) But you just don’t bet on that. Five years ago, teams would have jumped all over themselves to make that kind of deal. Heck, one of the Dodgers’ dumbest ever deals was the 1999 7-year contract for then 34-year-old pitcher Kevin Brown. Surprising no one who understands anything about baseball, Brown pitched well for a couple of years, and then was history. (Meanwhile, the Dodgers rejected a deal for future first ballot HOFer, and then 30-year old Mike Piazza for the same money and time. And after Piazza accepted a slightly lesser deal with the Mets, the tail end of even that long-term deal was not ideal–missing out on the Silver Slugger his last three years, missing playing time, and not hitting his usual .300, but of course the money was a lot less relative to the times, and he was still the best offensive catcher in history). So the Dodgers have stuck to their guns and rightly so.
    .
    Second, never, ever trusting Scott Boras. It’s really hard to imagine a more despicable human being than this guy. For starters, it seems clear that Manny and the Dodgers are both now discussing a deal for 2 years, $45. The sticking point here seems to be how much is deferred. That’s pretty important, to be sure, but with interest rates pretty low, not really a deal-breaker at this point. Moreover, the actual cash here is not much, either. But Boras got Manny to force himself out of his Boston contract that had two club obtions for $20 Million a year for 2009 and 2010. There seems very little doubt to me that, had those options stayed, the Dodgers would have obviously exercised the 2009 option and Manny would be playing ball right now, and its not hard to imagine some sort of agreement to have the 2010 option vest based on certain performance standards, or even just getting the Dodgers to agree to exercise the second year (after all, who here would be willing to right now gurarantee Manny $20 Million in 2010–I would do it–and since the team is giving Manny the 2010 option, so are they). But, while he is maybe going to get his client an extra $5 Million (minus taxes, and agency fees), he is dragging his poor client’s reputation through the mud–first in Boston, now here in LA. But here’s the kicker–Boras would have gotten nothing from the $40 Million Manny was already locked in for since another agent negotiated the deal, but he gets 10% of whatever comes of this deal. An extra $5 Million out of $45 Million for the price of your reputation is not a great deal. But $4.5 Million for nothing is a pretty sweet deal for Boras.
    .
    This is really not that new with this guy. I am not a big fan of JD Drew, who is tremendously talented but never perforemd that well. I think he tends to dog it way too often, manages to be chronically injured, and seems to have very little ability or willingness to play through pain (how is it that Cal Ripkin played 162 games for 15+ seasons, but JD Drew, even when healthy needs a day off every week or so). But despite that, everyone has always thought of him as a community-minded, honest guy. But he opts out of his deal a month after promising to stay. Adrian Beltre left after the organization had stuck with him for years until he became an MVP candidate, and he immediately receded. And while A-Rod is probably a chump, I don’t think it was his idea to try to show-up the 2007 World Series by announcing he was opting out. But behind all this nonsene is Scott Boras.
    .
    Now Boras says that there are other teams that are interested. Even though a recession was clearly coming in July, that was feasible to see. After September, harder to imagine, and when Manny became a free agent in November, harder still to imagine, but possible. But the universe is small–Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox are the only teams with markets that would regularly support mega-stars like Manny. Most other teams can certainly sign guys when necessary–Cardinals, Phillies, Braves are at the top of that list. But when things are tight, its just hard for any but the richest teams to be able to afford someone as expensive as Manny. And as someone at the LA Times pointed out today, other big players—not necessarily as big as Manny–have taken pay cuts. The Yankees could always be in the mix, but have seemed disinterested from the start (and Boras has already ripped them off with the ridiculous Texiera deal–Tex may be good, but he’s not that good). The Red Sox are obviously out. And others just aren’t interested or need what Manny has. The only team that has been talked about is the Giants. Fine. Let the Giants sign him. The Giants are in no position to contend in 2009. They may have pitching, but you can only win so many games 1-0, based on a Manny homer and a Lincecum shut out. Until they fill out their team, signing someone like Manny is nuts. (Note–this is what made Manny a perfect pick-up for the Dodgers last summer, and still perfect now. While we wait for Hu, Abreu, and MacDonald to go from prospect to contributor, DeWitt, Kershaw, and Wade to go from contributor to star, and Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, and Broxton to go from start to superstar, you can put Manny in the middle of the mix, surrounded by these guys, and win a championship.)
    .
    The long point here is that there are no other offers for Manny. In November, maybe people thought that there would be, but the Dodgers made a reasonable offer and were prepared to bid. No one else made a bid (partly, I think, because of the market, but also given the market, not a lot of teams were willing to get into a bidding war that high up against one of the few teams in baseball who can afford to outbid anyone, if they put their minds to it). Now, McCourt has very publicly called him on his BS–which is something that needs to be done constantly with Boras. And he’s panicking. The news this morning is that he is still negotiating “within the parameters” they discussed. If there were other options on the table, he would have turned to them–like he has done with other players. But there is not, and it has been a brilliant showing of fortitude by McCourt and Ned to hold firm.
    .
    It’s been a good off-season. Once again, we have protected the most valuable commodities on the team–the future. In fact, there was very little scare of a deal this season. The worst thing was the near-the-edge negotiation with Ethier, but arbitration was avoided, and that’s what matters. It would be good to start locking in some of these guys into longer-term deals, but waiting to get the idea of the budget with Manny, and maybe seeing how the economy is and how that will affect salaries is not the worst or least-understandable thing for the team.
    .
    Being able to dump the drag that was Andruw Jones was good. Would I like to see a deal that would send Juan Pierre somewhere too? Yes (again, no offense to Pierre, for what he is, he is. But he’s paid too much, espescially in this market, and if we have a Manny, Kemp, Ethier outfield, he just becomes unnecessary, and if he could start somewhere else, he probably deserves that opportunity, since that is what he wants). But, keeping him is a hedge on Manny (no, there is no comparison, but we’ll need another outfielder somehow). And if we have delayed making some moves while patienly letting the Manny situatiion play-out, it is worth it, espescially if we see a deal that ends with Manny signing for 2 years at $45 Million.
    .
    Re-signing Furcal at a lesser price was good. I am not sure that Hu is ready, or that Abreu is the ideal shortstop (and see below about Hudson). But those guys are there in case Raffy gets hurt–and if he’s healthy, he is a huge catalyst and really a joy to watch. Not sure about Ausmus, really, but whatever. Disappointed in a way to see Lowe go, because he was good and generally consistent (he would lose focus at some point every year, but so it goes), but he had made clear a long time ago that he was not staying in LA. Not sure why he did not like it, but we get a draft pick or two. As for Penny, probably for the best, particularly after seeing what he had to say. Penny does not seem that he will ever learn that to do well, you have to put the team first, and to do that means being honest about yor health. But a rotation of Billingsley, Kershaw, Kuroda, Wolf, and (Schmidt, Elbert, MacDonald, Stults) is just not one to be trifled with. Bills was the 10th best pitcher in the league (or in MLB–I read it somewhere recently) by ERA, and is likely to improve. Kershaw has an even higher ceiling, and could easily be there too. Kuroda seems to be just what he is, and that’s not bad. If Wolf comes through, that’s great. Schmidt may finally be healthy, and he’s still got potential to be a very good pitcher (a 1, 2, or 3 pitcher), and we just need something at the back of the rotation. Elbert is a question mark about talent, but a lot of up-side. Stults can be a fifth (or sixth) starter on most teams, and still may prove more solid. And MacDonald might have the potential to be up there with Bills and Kershaw, and certainly showed some brilliance in his big league debuts last season.
    .
    I am not as enamored of the “O-Dawg” as some people are. But Vin Scully clearly loves him, so that ups his value to me. I would have been fine with DeWitt starting at second, and seeing more opportunities for Abreu and Hu, but if Hudson performs like he is capable of, it’s a good deal. As it is, it’s a one-year deal, heavy on incentives, and we have a lot of depth there. With Hudson and Furcal’s injury history, that depth is a good thing to have, and the smart money is on seeing at least one of Abreu, DeWitt, or Hu in the starting lineup when we kick off our World Championship defense in 2010 (if not sooner).

  100. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    25 million 15 million deffered, 10 million salary for 2009. Lying in the press, using the public to try and turn on the one guy…McCourt is doing everything he can to make it look like we are trying to sign the guy when thats exactly what he dosen’t want

    I don’t mind Manny not playing LF for us, but to end up with Pierre when plenty of better affordable options existed is horrendus

  101. trublu4ever

    Great to see you back, leekfink……….what a fantastic post! Looking forward to spending the season with you!

  102. shepherd96

    Just finished War & Peas, but I mostly agree with lee, too.

    If blu is tru, My accounts receivables will have grew!

  103. thinkingblue

    LEEK that was impressive. It really helped me understand a lot of things. And it is true. I don’t want to take side on either party (Dodgers Management vs. Manny’s team). I understand why both are doing why they are doing. They both are thinking about the future, beyond 2010. They both want protection. I do hope that they do come into an agreement…like TRU said “By 3:00 this afternoon”.

  104. Dodger4life

    Good morning ITD Dodgerfaithful,
    .
    Leeflink: That was a very good post this morning, WELCOME BACK.
    .
    I shall have some coffee and soak all the mornings hogwash up…. for a moment…. in the meantime.
    .
    What a beautiful day, The sun has reappeared in my homestate. Its been a while. I hope all is fabulous in yours as well.
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    BRING THE RING TO L.A. IN 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    Now back to our regulary schedualed program :
    Whatever it takes to win a championship………..

  105. messagebear@msn.com

    From what I saw, Manny will accept the $45 million over two years if it’s real money paid in real time instead of this deferral BS. So, if you have the money, Frank, you’ll have Manny. I’d still prefer that you SELL THE TEAM, and I still hope this depression hits you hard enough to have you go belly up.

  106. Dodger4life

    Good morning again all, We play the M’s today I see 🙂
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    Thanks Nelly, I am still waking up and adjusting to the day’s brightness.

  107. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    On another note, Jason Schmidt got roughed up in the B game. Actually, it was more a matter of control. He threw 21 pitches, only 10 of which were strikes, and the inning was ended after a walk to Jermaine Dye because Schmidt had reached his pitch limit.

  108. leekfink

    Sorry about the length of the post, there. What can I say?
    .
    I try to never disagree with Jungar, but here I have to. Deferred compensation is pretty common, and in the current economy is all the rage in salaries (O-Dog’s deal has a big deferred component, for instance, and the big deal with Jones was that we were able to defer a bunch too, though some was already deferred). With a deal this big, I just assumed that there would be SOME deferred component. Tony Jackson is now reporting that Ned Colletti said that the original offer included a deferred component, though no details.
    .
    One of the stories posted here did the math and said that the deferred compensation would make the deal with $42 Million in present value (not a big dro-off–not surprising given current low interest rates). and remember taht comparsion is to other dals which likely have some deferred component too. Boras wants not deferral, so they are $3 Million apart. I really don’t think that the Dodgers making an offer that is $3 Million less than what Boras wants is a deal they knew they wouldn’t get and not trying to sign the guy–it’s just not a huge gulf between the sides. And considering that Manny has had no other offers, what should the team do?
    .
    Again, it’s not clear what part of the November $45 Million offer included deferred compensation. I will assume that the new offer has the same or more deferred compensation as that one. If it is the same, then the Dodgers have made a better offer to Manny–one that allows him to opt out and test the market if things are better for him. If there is more deferrred compensation, then it seems to me that the Dodgers have made a very fair offer here–if you want the benefit of opting out, you have to give us some of the benefit of the time value of money. So the deal is no worse (of course, ifthe original November offer had more deferral than the current one, its even better). But making an offer that is at least as good or better than back in November, when there were serious thoughts of other bidders and the free agent market looked to be much more costly is pretty fair.
    .
    Fundamentally, Boras made a choice when he insisted to be freed of the club options. His decision was to take a chance on the Free Agent Market. If Many had sufered some sort of career-threatening injury, there would be basically no free agent market for him. But he was taking that risk, and that was his to take. But just as much as a free agent bears the risk of injury, when he gambles on the free agent market and it turns out that the market is bad because the economy is bad, he has to bear that risk too. Right now, the market for Manny is the Dodgers, and really no one else. I dont doubt that Manny could get $15 Million from several teams, or maybe even a 2 year deal for $35-$40 Million (again, I expect some of that would be deferred), but unless Boras shows otherwise, no one else is in the market for the amounts that the Dodgers are talking about, and when you are the top bidder (as the Dodgers are), there is every reason to expect to be able to sign the player.
    .
    I don’t know if I agree with TruBlu that there will be a deal by 3 PM, but I do expect a deal to be made pretty soon. As I said, the sides are $3 million apart, and its all about structuring the deferred compensation (actually, I am sure that it’s less than $3 Million, because Boras had got to know that some portion is going to be deferred). But I gve credit to the organization to sticking to its guns here.

  109. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    Do the season ticket holders pay as they go, or do they pay their money up front?

    McCourt is treating the Dodgers as a Real Estate business. Working off other peoples money.

    I’m putting my trust in trublu44 and not going to get overexcited.

  110. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    Lee the thing is the dodgers are lying. just stop lying.


    “Boras called Dodgers GM Ned Colletti upon seeing Dodgers officials quoted as saying that the Dodgers had offered $45 million over two years with no mention of deferred money and told Colletti that Ramirez would accept the exact deal quoted in the media. Boras sent the Dodgers a letter of agreement signifying an acceptance of that presumed offer”

  111. nellyjune

    We were labeling continents in class this morning as part of a handwriting assignment. We were going over the names and where we live, and one student raises her hand and informs the class that in the spelling of North and South America, you can find the name Eric. Dodgereric is in their hearts and minds always I guess. I know I had something to do with starting the dodgereric phenomenon, but the students are the ones that are making it stick.

  112. shepherd96

    Q: “When is $45 million, really $42 million?”

    A: When it is deferred up to five years.

    It may be common practice or a negotiating tactic, but it is a real difference. The truest comparison from Manny’s perspective is after-tax NPV. This is Scott and Ned doing their jobs. lee is right about Manny’s limited market, but Scott is trying to paint the best picture of his client. When the Dodgers were publicly giving the $45 million figure, they were playing the public, too.

  113. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    If LA signs Manny, I would seriously like to see them trade some of their youth for Peavy. They have a boatload right now. I wouldn’t trade any of their pitching. With Manny and Peavy they could go all the way.

  114. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    What is LA’s payroll….85 million?

    What’s the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Cubs, Phillies, and Mets?

    Are they over a hundred million?

  115. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    I don’t know if McCourt is a good negotiator, but he is not investing enough in this team. He is trying to run the Dodgers on the cheap.

  116. Dodger4life

    My yard work has interupted todays game so here is my cheer….
    .
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Beat the M’s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    Enjoy the game everybody….:-)

  117. scott_in_arcadia

    Morning all!

    Well, normally I don’t side with throwing millions at players because that means higher prices.

    BUT…if McLiar thinks that the Dodgers’ ticket and parking hikes are to support a sub $100 million payroll with Slappy Mc Noodlearm in left field, he’s a bigger horse’s **** than i thought.

  118. j-murray

    mccourt is really playing with fire here. if his insistence of paying manny in deferred money prevents this organization from signing him (especially to a 1-year deal), he’s going to have to answer to a livid fan base. it would be one thing if mccourt conceded the dodgers wouldn’t be able to sign manny, but then signed dunn or abreu to play LF. going into the regular season with pierre and his .650 OPS in left field?…….OUCH. frank, come through for us.

  119. selltheteam

    Just a reminder – Manny Signing Sweepstakes
    .
    Feb. 25th at 11:59 am trublu44
    Feb 26 between 10am and 4pm perumike
    Feb 27, noon to 6 pm shepherd96
    March 1, dcollins
    March 2, 11 am news conference scott_in_arcadia
    March 2nd – between noon and 6 pm nellyjune
    March 5 noon to 6 PST seeskybout2rain
    March 6th @ 4:30PM Pacific Standard Time dodgereric
    March 13th between noon and 6 enchantedsunset
    March 17th between noon and 6 PST cpompe1
    March 23 @ 4:05 pm crash

  120. shad78

    At least Lincecum not money greedy but then again he doesn’t have Boras and btw is it wrong to like one guy from the rival Giants. I feel kind of dirty to like one player on that team.

  121. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 1: Eric Bedard Pitching:
    Juan Pierre pops a bunt to first
    Brad Ausmus hits an infield single
    Russell Martin hits into a double play
    0 runs 0 hits 0 LOB End of 1/2 inning No Score

  122. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 1: Chad Billingsley Pitching:
    Ronny Cedeno put out
    Jose Lopez grounds out to Loretta at third
    Russell Branyan loops a single into left field
    Adrian Beltre pops to Loney at first
    0 runs 1 hit 1 LOB End of 1 No Score

  123. nellyjune

    LMAO!!!!! scott – I still have that list in my head of the top 10 things JP does before a game – still cracks me up – LOL!!!!

  124. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 2: Eric Bedard Pitching:
    James Loney lines out to center
    Matt Kemp lines a single into left field
    Mark Loretta 6-4-3 DP
    0 runs 1 hit 0 LOB End of 1 1/2 No Score

  125. scott_in_arcadia

    Hi Nelly,

    I think if Manny signs, JP’s Revised Top Ten is going to look something like this:

    1. Show up early to the field.
    2. Ask Ned to trade me.
    3. Ask Ned to trade me.
    4. Ask Ned to trade me.
    5. Ask Ned to trade me.
    6. Ask Ned to trade me.
    7. Ask Ned to trade me.
    8. Ask Ned to trade me.
    9. Ask Ned to trade me.
    10. Ask Ned to trade me.

  126. dodgerdiaz

    No Ethier today, my guess is that they’re giving him a chance to get back to 100% after his recent “minor” injury.

  127. bluesplash09

    These double plays are killin us today.

    Spit, it’s not bad to appreciate the talent that lincecum has as long as you hate his guts for playin with the gnats.

    Stupid mariners announcers are talkin about how glad they are that they didnt sign Schmidt when they had the chance and how good of a decision that was….correct me if i’m wrong but has beltre done anything close for them like what he did for us in 04? yeah, shut up

  128. scott_in_arcadia

    Is that witch doctor Stan Conte still with the team? have you ever seen more injuries? Nomar gone will help a little I guess.

    At least our man Ethier is safely planted in RF this year.

  129. scott_in_arcadia

    I ‘d like to ask the Mariners if it’s possible to be any worse even if they had Schmidt. Shoot, think of how he could have messed up the great run they’re on.

  130. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 2: Chad Billingsley Pitching:
    Bryan LaHair grounds to Loretta at third
    Matt Tuiasosopo doubles down the left field line
    Franklin Gutierrez doubles to the gap in left, Tuiasosopo scores, 1-0 Mariners
    Prentice Redman flies to Kemp in center
    Rob Johnson on the first pitch flies to center
    1 run 2 hits 1 LOB End of 2 1-0 Mariners

  131. Dodger4life

    It is nice to see Billz in the game 🙂
    .
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  132. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 3: Jason Vargas Pitching
    Xavier Paul grounds to first
    Tony Abreu grounds to short
    Chin-lung Hu grounds to short
    0 runs 0 hits 0 LOB End of 2 1/2 1-0 Mariners

  133. scurtis1999

    Frank Mc Cheap. I wonder if we can defer paying for tickets. I want to buy tickets for a 3 game series in August. I am willing to pay $50 up front but would like to defer $50 for 2010 and $100 in 2011.

  134. scott_in_arcadia

    Amen, scurtis!

    Why aren’t we deferring payments for our crappy players? Manny is already a hall of famer!

    I’m not a big Casey Blake guy. I’d much rather see DeWitt at 3B. Casey Blake is an old .260-.270 hitter. Whoop-dee-doo!

    3 years??? But Manny is only worth deferred payments?

    MC CHEAP!!!

  135. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 3: Shawn Estes Pitching:
    Cedeno singles
    Lopez reaches on a fielding error by Tony Abreu, Cedeno to second (would’ve been an easy 6-4-3 DP)
    Branyan flies to Paul in right (inning should be over, but it is not)
    Beltre on a full count doubles to the gap scoring Cedeno and Lopez, 3-0 Mariners
    LaHair doubles to the gap, Beltre scores, 4-0 Mariners
    Tuiasosopo grounds to Abreu at short
    Gutierrez flies to Kemp in deep center
    3 runs 3 hits 1 LOB End of 3 4-0 Mariners

  136. Dodger4life

    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    LETS GO DODGERS, LETS GO!!!!!
    .
    GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  137. scurtis1999

    lol trublu

    Scott, Andruw Jones is worth deferred payments, not Man Ram. I totally agree with Boras and Manny on this one.

    Seems like the Gnats might go longer then a 2 year deal now.

  138. trublu4ever

    scurtis ~ the Gnats won’t give him the big bucks, though. I was listening to their talk radio and, they assume Manny is going to sign with us. So, unless, Frank really blows it, there is no way he’s going to be a Gnat.

  139. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Top 4: Vargas Pitching:
    Juan Pierre strikes out swinging
    Brad Ausmus walks on four pitches, Ausmus to second on wild pitch
    Russell Martin strikes out swinging
    James Loney flies to right
    0 runs 0 hits 1 LOB End of 3 1/2 4-0 Mariners

  140. scott_in_arcadia

    I agree scurtis.

    If the Giants end up with Manny, McCourt is stupider than I think or actually, as stupid as I think.

  141. scott_in_arcadia

    What a lead off man! Show ’em how it’s done JP! Man he’s fast!

    How fast can you run back to the dugout, JP?

  142. bluesplash09

    This is ridiculous, fielding drills all day tommorrow for us, it’s not a good sign when you have more errors than hits

  143. scurtis1999

    Frank will not be seating in his seats at the Ravine if Manuel Ramirez is not in LF. He would need a ton of security.

  144. alex41592

    Spring Training Update: Bottom 4: Shawn Estes Pitching:
    Redman reaches on an infield single to Abreu at short
    Johnson singles to right, Redman to second
    Cedeno reaches on a fielder’s choice on a sacrfice bunt, Loney’s throw was a little high and Loretta couldn’t see it, Redman scores on the Loretta error, Johnson to third, Cedeno to second, 5-0 Mariners
    Lopez flies to shallow right
    Branyan triples to right center scoring Johnson and Cedeno, 7-0 Mariners
    Tanyon Sturtze relieves Shawn Estes
    Beltre singles to right, Branyan scores, 8-0 Mariners
    LaHair strikes out swinging
    Tuiasosopo strikes out swinging
    4 runs 4 hits 1 LOB End of 4 8-0 Mariners

  145. scott_in_arcadia

    The Dodgers are real good at making relievers out of all of the best young pitchers on the team while the 5th starter spot has mostly been a shambles under Colletti. They’re still spinning Billz being shafted to reliever in favor of jokes like Tomko. Spin, spin, spin. Put McDonald in there retards!

  146. scott_in_arcadia

    The Angels pretty much put Gary Matthews and his over priced butt in his place and now he just smiles and sits on the bench. At least he can play OF though.

  147. trublu4ever

    I know JP is owed a lot of money but, to me, he is useless. If he wasn’t, he would have been traded by now and, probably not for much.

  148. enchantedbeaver

    Juan Pierre leading off – 3 runs
    .
    No Juan Pierre at all – 16 runs
    .
    Juan Pierre leading off – 0 runs

    Theory – Boras is paying Pierre to tank to drive Manny’s price up.

    LMAO!!!

    I sense some Pierre songs a comin’…

  149. bluesplash09

    Prediction, we sign Manny on the flight to arizona, he makes it in time to put on his uniform for the 9th inning and hits 3 grand slams, we win 12-11

  150. nellyjune

    ….I am surprised you haven’t already entered a song for today. Knowing you, you already have one done or one is in the works enchantedsunset 🙂

  151. bluesplash09

    Adjustment, Colletti tells Pierre if he gets on base for the rest of this game he’ll start in center everyday…Pierre believes him

  152. nellyjune

    That’s the problem enchanted ….some of us are too much like you, or becoming like you, whichever the case may be 🙂

  153. scott_in_arcadia

    A poor attempt at “If I Were A Carpenter” by Johnny Cash

    If I were a left fielder
    And you were Joe Torre,
    Would you play me every day?
    Would you still want Manny?

    If I asked for a trade
    would you still play me?
    Because I try real hard,
    And show up early.

    I’m good at stolen bases,
    But I can’t steal first,
    If you’ve ever seen me throw,
    You’ll say I’m the worst.

    If I never get on base,
    Would you still play me?
    Answer me Joe, “Yes I would,
    Then I’ll know you love me.”

    If I were ever traded
    would you be happy,
    would you miss my noodle arm,
    and your best friend Slappy?

    If I were a left fielder
    and you were Joe Torre,
    Would you play me every day?
    Would you still want Manny?
    Would you play me every day?
    Would you still want Manny?

  154. northstateblues

    Hey Rose, how are you? Yeah, Pumpkins are great… wish James was still with ’em, but Billy still knows how to bring it.

    “Manny, Manny, can’t you see, sometimes your agent irritates me…”

  155. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    3:00 Pacific, 6:00 EST

    I’m not sure if McCourt is trying to pull a Ponzi on the season ticket holders or what. The first half of last season was a complete letdown and I can’t stand the thought of going through that again (last 2 months of ’07, first 4 months of ’08, and now ’09 with a big ? mark). I kind of think McCourt made his money on the season ticket holders and just wanted to act Hollywood now. He tried to sign Manny….Liar.

  156. thinkingblue

    Well I am off. Everyone have a great weekend. I will be checking in and keeping up with the “MANNYWOOD” situation. Hopefully next time I log in…Manny is a Dodgers.
    *
    NS- that was a great video clip on “MANNYWOOD – Show me the Money”. It was just missing “Manny’s HAIR”. You gotta have the hair.
    *
    SCOTT – great song!
    *
    Rose Ethieraholic & Martinista
    GOOOOOOO DODGERSSSSSSSSSS!

  157. scott_in_arcadia

    Bye Rose!

    Something interesting from the lastest MLB article:

    Mc Cheap/Mc Liar:

    “So now, we start from scratch.”

    Asked on Friday what starting from scratch meant, Colletti said: “You’ll have to ask McCourt

  158. enchantedbeaver

    Think we have to face facts – Frank doesn’t have $25M in pocket to be able to pay Manny this year or he’d have done it.

  159. park

    Thanks for posting the Onion article. That was hilarious.

    Regarding Manny, I personally think the Dodgers are being cheap. The Dodgers signed Rafael Furcal and Casey Blake for 3 years each. I don’t see why they can’t do the same for one of the best hitters in the game.

    Yes, I understand that no other team has made an offer for Manny but at some point a team will step up and give Manny a good, solid 2 or 3-year deal that will be better than what the Dodgers have offered. The market is slow this year but not dead. Sooner or later, a power hitter is going to go down with an injury and a team will emerge that is willing to dish out the money and the years for Manny. It may not be the 4 or 5 years at 25 million that Boras wants, but will be enough to get a deal done.

    The Dodgers need to realize that if they want arguably the best hitter in the game, then they need to pay him like he’s the best hitter in the game. Pure and simple. Maybe Manny is selfish, but so are a lot of players. If the Dodgers want him, they need to pay him. And if they can’t or don’t want to afford him, then they need to stop wasting everybody’s time.

    But if the Dodgers really, truly can’t afford him, then we’re in a lot of trouble.

  160. thinkingblue

    So Dodgers signed some other guy, but not Manny….shsssh…this is a long wait.
    *
    Quick note: I guess there was a truck stolen (Classic Truck) in Riverside (about 10 min. from were I live) that was registered to Troy Percival (ex-Angels, now with the Rays), hopefully the find it.

  161. lbirken@aol.com

    Park, I don’t think the Dodgers are “being cheap” at all with Manny although I agree that it does seem as if the Dodgers are working as if they were a small market team. But just because they are willing to give other players three year deals has nothing to do with Manny. While Manny may be the best hitter in the game he does come with a lot of baggage. You say another team will come up with a better deal; so far that has not happened. And I believe the Dodgers can afford him but they don’t want to pay more than they have to in order to get him.

    The bad part is negotiating in the media but this is an old trick and is just part of the process. I am sure when Manny does sign, and I believe he will, all will be forgiven and it will be a dreadlock love fest.

  162. shad78

    To avoid Pierre in LF there is an option to put Blake there and give Dewitt the job at 3rd again so something need to happen soon.

  163. scott_in_arcadia

    hey spit,

    Who wouldn’t like that lineup, but Torre already said Pierre is his LF if Manny don’t sign.

    AAAGGHHH!!!!

  164. lbirken@aol.com

    I am in a partnership with a group of people and we have to get our money to the season ticketholder who owns the seats by the first week in January. But I am sure this is normal; I pay for my UCLA season football tickets in June.

  165. shad78

    I was praying Miller and Orenduff would had both pitch great. Anyone took a peak of that site I just posted and I surely is not truth.

  166. gpruseck1@verizon.net

    The thing of it is, Manny has all the time on his side. He can show up at the All Star Game. McCourt is going to look like a fool if Manny signs somewhere else.

  167. nellyjune

    Scott – at least he is getting the K’s in Texas this season. And to think the real pitching really hasn’t started yet 🙂

  168. scurtis1999

    DRUW is awesome.

    Another Drew is hurting in Boston. Typical.

    Boras wanted a 2 year $55 million? We should just trade for a power hitter. These negotiations are getting to be annoying and is causing me to lose interest in this organization. Boras is good at what he does, but a creep. I hope I see him at the Stadium one game.

  169. nellyjune

    Sorry, I am just now catching up. We lost 18-2? Something went wrong today for sure – LOL!! Thank goodness it’s only Spring Training and Friday because I just busted up my custodian this morning for the gnat loss yesterday, and I would’ve caught crap for this one.

  170. 636566cy

    This whole Manny thing is giving me a headache. I have a real problem with McCourt trying to prove to the fans that they are doing everything they can to sign Manny, but not giving the whole picture while trying to do so. I do not believe there are many of us that would like our payment for work defered. I know Frank wouldn’t want any of his money defered (no payment plan options for season tickets/it’s all or nothing), so why would he expect Manny to accept that? I know I’m in the minority when I say that Manny does not make or break the season, but if the Dodgers want him, go get him. If not, stop the PR show and just move on already.

  171. cpompe1

    Okay, I thought I was done with this whole Manny business. But I just read this article on the Dodgers’ homepage: http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090227&content_id=3892614&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la. Inside, the article says, “Boras’ proposal is for two years at $45 million with all the money paid over the course of two years. The Dodgers’ last proposal, rejected by Ramirez on Thursday, was for the same length and dollar figure, but deferred without interest over five years.”

    My first question is if the last contract the Dodgers offered was going to be “deferred without interest over five years,” then I say, why? If this is true, then I see why Manny rejected this offer. Unless I’m reading this wrong (which could be entirely correct), why not just pay the 2-year contract in 2 years? Why the deferral? And if deferral $ is normal, accepted and commonplace, then why defer for 5 years?

    I realize this is a lot of $, but at the same time, if Frank is saying that he WANTS Manny back, then can’t he (or Ned or whoever is pulling the purse strings here) say, defer for 2 or 3 years, or something a little more palatable to Manny? That way, Manny will probably be more willing to sign, the Dodger fans will be happy that Manny is back, and if the Dodgers propose something like this (and Manny subsequently signs), then Frank/Ned would’ve saved face with the fans.

  172. cpompe1

    I know this was a short visit, but everyone else can debate the Manny debate and the status of the latest contract that was offered to him. I’ll read up later!!!

    Oh, sorry, but I forgot to say before: Good afternoon ITD boys and girls!!! I’ll see y’all later…

  173. 636566cy

    Scott – I see your point about the amount of money, but I’m not letting anyone tell me that over half of the money I make this year is going to be defered for the next 5 years. That is the stance of Manny’s camp, and for once, I agree with his side.

  174. nellyjune

    LOL!!! CP – I am so tired of this Manny saga it’s ridiculous. For me, at this point, I really just don’t want JP in LF, and I guess Manny is the only option that will make that happen at this point. So, how are you doing?

  175. enchantedbeaver

    Scott you inspired me. Beatles – Nowhere Man

    LEVERAGED MAN
    .
    He’s a real leveraged man,
    Ergo there is no Man Ram
    Looks like Slappy’s a-gan
    Our left fielder
    .
    Doesn’t have a friggin’ clue
    Know’s who’s next he wants to screw
    Looks like this time its you and me.
    .
    Leveraged Man, please listen,
    It’s the fans that you’re pissin’
    Leveraged Man, you’re lack of funds has got outta hand
    .
    (lead guitar)
    .
    He’s as dumb as he can be
    Don’t care who we want to see
    Leveraged Man, all can’t play for free @$%!! &^%#!
    .
    Leveraged Man, do worry
    Your bottom line’s now blurry
    Sell out now so someone else can take your command
    .
    Side-by-sides in Malibu
    Has a wife who is a shrew
    Overpriced spring training too %#^@%!! $@%!
    .
    Leveraged Man, please listen
    Wisht my fist you’re kissin’
    Leveraged Man, please sell the sta-di-am (and team)
    .
    He’s a real leveraged man,
    Ruining our Dodgerland
    Making all his shady plans for more money
    .
    Making all his shady plans for more money
    Making all his shady plans for more money

    ©NedCo Broken Records 2009

    NedCo – Boldly going where everyone has gone before. ™

  176. leekfink

    Checking in a lot today, because I think the deal will get done sometime soon, though it does not look like today, but maybe over the weekend.
    .
    And while I hate to harp on the point, I think we really need to understand exactly how common deferred compensation is, how often it is overlooked in the public perception of making a deal, and its PR affects.
    .
    First off, obviously, deferred compensation reduces the present value of the contract, and according to reports (I have not done the math), the Dodgers offer is worth $42 Million. If the Dodgers offered Manny $22 Million this year and $20 Million next year with a player option. That’s still about the best deal Manny is likely to get. Boras is quibbling over the $3 Million as much as the Dodgers, and the Dodgers have a lot to gain in demonstrating that they are going to hold a certain line. If Boras has another offer, he can tell the team what the bid is. He doesn’t. He’s bluffing with a 10-high.
    .
    Jungar says that the Dogers are lying. I won’t argue the point one way or another. But they are lying no more than every team and every agent, particularly Boras. Jungar quotes a report that “Boras called Dodgers GM Ned Colletti upon seeing Dodgers officials quoted as saying that the Dodgers had offered $45 million over two years with no mention of deferred money and told Colletti that Ramirez would accept the exact deal quoted in the media. . . .” But of course, Boras knows that this is nonsense, and he is trying to pull a stunt.
    .
    You can see a bunch of contracts at http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/, but the best illustration is the last big deal that Boras did with the Dodgers. Before last season, we signed Andruw Jones for $36.2 million for 2 years. The $0.2 Million was specifically so that Jones would make more than Torii Hunter, who had signed a 5 year deal worth $18 Million a year. But take a look at Hunter’s deal–it’s a $2.5 Million signing bonus, with annual salaries of $16 Million, $17.5 Million, and then three years of $18 Million salaries. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/los-angeles-angels-of-anaheim.html. The net of that is that Hunter got just slightly more than $18 Million per year in present value (basically, a $500,000 one-year advance–worth about $25,000). What did Jones get? $36.2 Million over two years, presumably $18.1 Million per year. But take a look at the actual details of his contract (before it was re-worked over the off-season). A $12.2M signing bonus (paid out at $5.1M in 2008, $2.1M in 2009, $5M in 2010), and a salary of $9M in 2008 and $15M in 2009. In other words, he would have recieved $14.1 Million in 2008, $17.1 Million in 2009, and $5 Million in 2010–compensation deferred until after he was no longer even under contract with the team. So Boras and the Dodgers both knew that Jones was not recieving the present value equivalent of $18.1 Million per year. But they all siad so anyway. Take a look at A-Rod’s contract, that supposedly had a $10 Million. But that was deferred to be paid out until 2014.
    .
    Unless the concept of deferred compensation was simply sprung on him AFTER he had read the media reports that the Dodgers had made a $45 Million offer, then he’s lying about what he thought the offer was–and considering that the Dodgers put the offer in writing, and had made 3 previous offers, I doubt this was new to Boras. Particularly since Boras knows as well as anyone how common deferred compensation is. And there is no reason to disbelieve Colletti when he said that deferred compensation was part of all the offers.
    .
    There’s a value to the players, owners, and the union to counting deferred compensation toward actual compensation. The Union was fine witht he Dodgers and Jones restructuring the deal so that he could be released, but they wouldn’t let them negotiate a reduced salary. And even though the deferred payment reduced the actual economic value of the deal for Jones, it was OK for the union. This matters for, amongst other things, setting arbitration values. Let’s say that Matt Kemp has a couple of really big years (40-40, 100+RBI, .310 Batting average–not at all impossible, though optimistic, I admit). He goes to arbitration and asks for $22.5 Million because that was the average of Manny’s contract. If, however, Manny and the Dodgers sign a 2 year deal for $42 Million, then the average is only $21 Million, and Kemp could lose $1.5 Million for that. There are a bunch of other ways in which this deferred compensation issue matters for players, I imagine (Andruw Jones’s contract alone shows that ego matters as much, or more, than actual economic value).
    .
    This is not to say that the offer that the Dodgers made is not less valuable than the one Boras wants–it is, no question. But Boras knew that, and if he is claiming that he is operating within the same parameters of a $45 Million two year deal, he understands exactly what is at play.
    .
    I don’t have a problem with Boras trying to negotiate the bet deal he can, and clearly a two year deal with compensation all in cash and no deferrment is better than a deal with deferred compensation. But if Ned and McCourt met with Boras and his stooge at the Stadium and they agreed on parameters for a 2-year deal, it is inconceivable to me that it was not clear that deferred compensation was to be part of the package. I don’t know if Boras knew the details or not, and maybe he just wants less deferral, but playin as if there was never a deferred comp component is simply not credible. My guess is that, given Boras’s history, they spelled out the exact deal points, including the deferred comp, Boras said it was provisionally OK but he “of course” needed to check with his client, and then came back trying to renegotiate after the Dodgers looked like they were committed to a deal. It’s plain old dirty pool by a guy who is famous for it.
    .
    Given the history of deferred comp, I just don’t think you can blame the Dodgers for calling a two year contract that pays $45 Million for two years of service, but with deferred comp adusted to present value is worth only $42 Million a $45 Million deal as it is just common parlance in the league.

  177. nellyjune

    I knew you had it in you today for something – It’s that JP love creeping in. Well, in this case, Franky love – LOL!!!! As always GREAT JOB enchanted!!!!

  178. nellyjune

    Wow leekfink!!!! We don’t hear from you in about 3 months, but three times in one day. You certainly are making up for lost time, aren’t you? I really appreciate you explaining this stuff because it’s all foreign to me as I feel I am still back in the 101 courses when it comes to big finance things. I do first grade math most days – LOL!!! Thanks!!!!

  179. lbirken@aol.com

    No offense to everyone else who posts regularily here but whether you agree with him or not leefink is still one of best writers who grace these pages.

  180. trublu4ever

    Boy, I leave to run some errands and everyone goes wild! Great songs….fantastic posts and, still no signing Manny party.

  181. bokonon42

    Can you confirm what Tony Jackson’s source said? If so, why don’t you guys quit playing background source, and just write it under your own names? If not, what are you going to do about people in your front office free lancing?

  182. lbirken@aol.com

    It is not unusual for reporters to protect their sources; otherwise they would never get any stories. Since the two sides can’t seem to work things out in private they have taken to negotiating in public in an attempt to point the blame for failure on the other side. Look at the beating Manny took until the concept of deferred money was made public. I once said this was like playing chicken but now it looks more like a boxing match with words instead of punches. Just get it done one way or the other as both sides are starting to look foolish and petty.

  183. messagebear@msn.com

    I’ll keep repeating:
    F Manny,
    Double F Ned and Frank, but
    Triple F Joe for the ludicrous assertion that JP will play LF if Manny isn’t signed. Just be sensible and let the best choice emerge during Spring Training. There are a couple of young guys that seem capable and could pleasantly surprise, but will that mean anything to Torre? He’s been the worst choice for this club, but then he’s our trophy manager, so what to expect.
    This whole Manny fiasco has been ridiculous – all spin and no action. I just want to see our guys play ball and forget the sideline theatrics.

  184. bokonon42

    I don’t care if Jackson protects his source. I don’t care if they want to fight it out in the press. I do care about fighting in a way that each party is responsible for the stories it tells to the press. Boras talked to Dylan Hernandez on the record. If the Dodgers want to respond, let them do it on the record.

  185. enchantedbeaver

    Give me $25M to invest into the current stock market and in 5 years I guarantee I’ll have more than $3M in additional income. Do I want my money now? – you bet!!

    I’m hedging against a full blown depression, I’m leveraged to the hilt and I could make a profit in the current stock market investing money that I’m not obliged to spend now. Do I want a zero interest deferred payment? – you bet!!

    Do I want to see someone in left field other than JP? – YOU BET!!!

  186. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    Speaking of JP…….

    Juan Pierre’s at Bat (No Can Do) (Sung to Hall & Oates “I Can’t Go For That”)

    Contract negotiations running overtime
    When does it stop, where do you dare us to draw the line
    Manny’s got the bat, now he wants our soul
    But we don’t have to think about it, just say “Go, Go”
    We’d pay anything that you’d want us to
    We’d pay almost anything you’d want us to

    Because Juan Pierre’s at bat, noooo
    (No can do)
    And we’re too old for that, nooooo
    (No can do)
    We’re too old for that, noooo
    (No can do)
    We’re too old for that, can’t go for that, can’t go for that, yeah

    We can’t go for being twice as nice
    When Juan repeats the same box score lines
    Manny’s got the bat, now he wants our soul
    Ooh, forget about it, just say “Go-Go”
    We’d pay anything that you’d want us to
    We’d pay almost anything you’d want us to

    (Repeat Chorus)

    (Sax solo)

    We’d pay anything that you’d want us to
    We’d pay almost anything you’d want us to

    (Repeat Chorus)

  187. lbirken@aol.com

    Bokonon, I am on your side. I roll my eyes at the anonymous source references or references to a source who is “not authorized to speak on the matter”. The reporter gets this stuff from someone and often is used to deliver the message. Blame the reporter as well for being a willing party to the process.

  188. leekfink

    Boy, if what Tony Jackson is reporting, then I take back anything nice I ever said about Scott Boras–like I am sure at some point I may have said that “he may not be the most despicable person in history.”
    .
    I still suspect that a deal will get done. Maybe the speculation here that Manny just does not want a long Spring Training is right, and it will drag out until mid-March. But it still does not seem that Manny has any other suitors, and if they don’t want to compete with the Dodgers offer of 2 years at $45 Million, what chance is there that they will go for 2 years at $55 Million.

  189. trublu4ever

    After this season, BorASS will have a hard time getting any of his clients signed. Our front office as well as other owners & GMs have said they will no longer do business with him.

  190. lbirken@aol.com

    Look, if Manny did not want to report to ST for another week or so, he could put that into the negotiations. From my point of view he should be there as soon as possible if he does sign. This is supposed to be a team game. Anyway, have a good evening.

  191. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    Thanks, tru & e….. but what I’d really like to know is: What is a Valentino Pascucci? Is it A) an early opera by Puccini, B) A Wednesday night special at Olive Garden, C) another lawn statue on the McCourt Estates, or D) all of the above?

  192. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    Pascucci comes to the D’s with a lifetime .177 BA in his partial 2004 season with the now-defunct Montreal Expos. A strong recommend, I must say!!!

  193. enchantedbeaver

    For you Nells… Juan Pierre 2 games, 0 for 6. Little Richard – Good Golly Miss Molly:
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPmaVT-P5Ds
    (little different version at the end than printed lyrics I found, but you’ll get the gist)

    GOOD GOLLY IT’S JUANPY
    .
    Good Golly it’s Juanpy
    Can’t hit the ball (whooooo)
    Good Golly it’s Juanpy
    Can’t throw at all
    When you’re pissin’ and a moanin’
    That’s when you’re Mama call
    .
    Get there in the early early mornin’ thru the middle of the night
    Get yourself a-caught a-stealing cuz you always got green lights
    .
    Good Golly its Juanpy
    Can’t bunt at all
    But when you’re pissin’ and a moanin’
    That’s when you’re Mama call
    .
    Mama tol’ ol’ Neddy, Joe better play him Juan
    If you can’t re-sign-a Manny, then put the speedster on
    Good Golly it’s Juanpy
    Dribblers and all
    When you’re poppin’ and a slappin’, make the offense a-stall
    AAAAaawwwww!!
    .
    [Piano & Sax]
    .
    When you saw ol’ Neddy you showed you had a ring
    Then he told you forty million, what a ding-a-ling-a-ling
    .
    Good Golly its Juanpy
    One hit is all
    When you string a few together, can’t even reach the wall.

    ©NedCo Broken Records 2009.

  194. kpookiemon

    Greedy player…greedier agent…cheap owner…dull GM…bad mix…at least the moon and Venus are getting along…check out the beautiful western sky before they both set.

  195. 636566cy

    Excellent discussion…I am just going to sit back and read because I can’t the points down into words nearly as well as some of you.

  196. kpookiemon

    Stop the presses!!! Tony Abreu is hurt again…in the groin area…again. I know it’s old news by now but the night is kind of slow. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  197. enchantedbeaver

    Fortunately I don’t think anyone was counting on Abreu to contribute anything this year. Still odd for someone his age to have chronic groinitis.

    Does anybody find it odd that spring training opened and they’re STILL working on McRanch? Contractors not getting paid or something? I mean its not like they hadn’t had enough time before players reported.

    Does anyone here think that if they moved Blake to left and let DeWitt play third that this team wouldn’t be stronger than having JP in there?

    If a bear Schmidts in the woods, will Ned sign it?

  198. trublu4ever

    Enchanted ~ I think anyone but JP playing left would make the team stronger. And, yes, Ned does like signing Schmidts! The more the merrier!!!

  199. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    At this point, I don’t see it so much as a question of greed as it is ego and the besting of another in a business deal. After all, this is a negotiation comprised of wealthy and wealthier individuals. The wealth and composition of the contract is the manner in which they keep score. The season is growing closer, the need to consummate a deal grows more critical, the principals are feeling the heat, and the failure to close a deal has led to posturing and spin. McCourt may be cheap, Borass and Manny may be greedy but, at some point, each side is going to have to put personalities aside, recognize the other’s goals and priorities, and reach a deal they can both live with.

  200. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    No question, E. I don’t know how good an outfielder Blake would be but he couldn’t possibly be any worse than JP.

  201. nellyjune

    Good Evening ITD readers and writers!!!!!

    INCREDIBLE ENCHANTED!!!!! LOL!!! Nells thanks you very much. There is definitely a reason why you are called the master song writer. A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!!!

    Wow Seesky!!! – you too? The good thing about Dodger drama is it always brings out the best in songwriting. Fantastic job seesky!!!

  202. trublu4ever

    I totally agree with you, Seesky. All of us are becoming very agitated and, we want our team set as soon as possible. I know they are testing some of the guys to see if they’ll make the team, but, we need to know our starting lineup.

  203. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    So let me get this straight (been gone most of the day)

    -The Dodgers made their offer of 2 years and 45 million to be paid out over 5 years (or less than what we will pay Juan Pierre for 5 years)

    -Boras and Manny rejected that offer and said we will accept an offer of 2 years 45 million with no deferement and we will wait on what the dodgers say…

    -The dodgers offically have said nothing.

    -Unoffically they say no thats not true, Boras/Manny want 55 million and thats why there is no deal..

  204. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    Oh man my gut says were lying. That we want to make it seem like we are trying to sign the guy but in fact really don’t want to..I’ll uses Lees post as the reason. I don’t know if he is right or wrong, he of course makes a great case, but say he is right…Deferred payments are normal…

    1. So then, why would Boras make a big deal of it and make that the reason to reject it.

    2. Boras might be alot of things, but would he really go all over the press and say “we agree to 45 million” (yet not really agree with 45 million and ask for 55 million)?

    3. Why after 4 months of this is the owner saying, ah f-it were back to scratch?

    4. Why would Ned come out and say we have no idea what the peramiters are of an acceptable deal when boras just went public to say 45 million non defered is acceptable

    5. all of a sudden its 55 million, un confirmed from either side…suck it frank.

  205. northstateblues

    “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic”

    – Lewis Carroll

  206. enchantedbeaver

    What do you think the players think about the Manny situation? They know Frankenweenie from their own dealings to form an opinion on them. Do you think the young guns would band together even tighter to show the rest of the league and Manny they can win without him? or are they so convinced that they need him in the line-up that they’ll regress?

  207. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    Thanks, nelly. I read Jungar’s line about being “too old for that” and your post about there being a song there and it just clicked.

  208. trublu4ever

    I don’t know if they need Manny………I just think they like having him around. They learned a lot about hitting from him and it seemed that they were more relaxed when Manny was there.

  209. trublu4ever

    Also, I don’t trust Joe to use the right players.
    .
    And, Jungar, not much of what Frank & Ned did in the off-season made much sense.

  210. enchantedbeaver

    $45 million deferred or not is a potfull of money anytime, let alone in this economy. The guy just got done making $160M and pissed on another $40M. Isn’t this really the first sign of Manny being Manny in L.A. (or Boras being Manny?)

    I don’t really care one way or the other anymore. I just don’t want JP in the line-up everyday. I think you put anyone else in there and you still have a legitimate chance of winning the division (though I don’t think they’d pull it off.) That may be better for them in the long run. Then they know they can do it on their own.

  211. nellyjune

    enchanted – I am hoping they are ready to prove everybody wrong. That they can do this without Manny. I think we can with hitting, but I am not so sure with pitching. And then there is ths issue of leftfield, which can’t be ignored. I am sorry,but it is a problem if they can’t see DY or Repko deserve a shot at some regular play over JP. Either that, or they need to move Blake to left field and DeWitt to 3rd. For goodness sakes, even Hu hit a homerun the other day. We need some power out there, yes?….and JP isn’t it:)

  212. jungar@wsgcorp.com

    It’s not that I wont be a fan of the team if Manny isn’t in blue, but it’s hard being a fan of a team that would go into the year with the offensive team we would have without him. Kemp, Loney, Martin and Ethier would each have to go 30, 100 for us to compete.

  213. enchantedbeaver

    The division is even weaker than it was last year, but your right, MLKE would have to come into their own to really compete.

    We’ll have to see what the reality is this year with the pitching staff, put paper from reality last year was night and day also. I for some reason have some faith in the starters holding their own. BPs a little iffier.

  214. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    Granted, Manny would make us better but, if JoJo could be trusted to consider somebody other than JP for the 3rd outfield spot, I wouldn’t see signing Manny to be as critical. JoJo seems to see it as “either-or”

  215. nellyjune

    LMAO!!!! …….he does kind of talk like Eeyore if you think about it…….very slow without a whole lot of enthusiasm – LMAO!!!!!!!

  216. enchantedbeaver

    “He [Eeyore] is generally characterized as a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, old grey stuffed donkey who is a friend of the title character…”

    Sound familiar?

  217. enchantedbeaver

    No really, I think its wonderful what they’re doing with old people like Joe nowadays. They’ve taught him a stock speech and if he can remember who he’s referring to he can even plug their names in:

    “[insert desired name]’s a veteran. Everything slows down for [insert desired name] up there. [insert desired name] knows what he’s trying to do out there every at bat. [insert desired name] has a plan. [insert desired name] is a gamer. You can’t say enough about [insert desired name].”

    That about cover it?

  218. enchantedbeaver

    Does that make Ned Winnie The Pooh because he’s stuffed with fluff and of very little brain?

    Hello.

    Is this thing on???

  219. enchantedbeaver

    Winnie The Pooh
    Winnie The Pooh
    Chubby ex-Cubbie all stuffed with fluff
    He’s Winnie The Pooh
    Winnie The Pooh
    Willy nilly silly GM

  220. seeskybout2rain@comcast.net

    I think that, if Furcal stays healthy and approaches his numbers of 2 years ago and Hudson has an injury-free, average year, MKLE could average 20-25 hrs and we would be fine without Manny. For good measure, we’ve also got Blake’s power. I don’t think we’ll ever get 30 dingers a year out of Russell or James and that’s just fine. We saw what happened with Russell last year when he muscled up and tried to hit for power. Russell’s at his best when he’s using the whole field and reaching the gaps with extra base hits. Loney’s, pretty much, the same type of hitter. I, also, have the feeling that the starters will be ok. Bills should be better; Kuroda’s had a year to adjust to American culture and MLB and he should also be better. Wolf will be Wolf, and that should be solid. The keys in our rotation will be how much improvement we get out of Kershaw and the production we get (or don’t get) out of the 5th spot. The bullpen, I agree, is iffy. The jury’s still out on Broxton as a closer and, except for Kuo and Wade, we don’t know for sure what we have. A plus: unlike last year, we have experienced depth in the infield if someone goes down.

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