Memorial Day

I hope everyone gets a moment today to stop and think about the significance of today. I know we’ll all be doing it at 3 p.m. at Wrigley Field, where the game will stop and everyone will pay tribute to those who have lost their lives fighting for our country.

Courtesy of retrosheet’s Dave Smith, here are some notes about Memorial Day in Dodger history:

In Brooklyn: 65 wins, 56 losses, 1 tie

In LA: 28 wins, 21 losses, 0 tie

All Dodgers (1890-2007): 93 wins, 77 losses, 1 tie

– Memorial Day was celebrated on May 30 through 1970 (it started after the Civil War). From 1971 to now, the date changes as it is the last Monday in May. These records are for the official holiday dates from 1971 forward.
– The Dodgers played 58 doubleheaders on Memorial Day from 1890-1957 (68 seasons) and have three in Los Angeles. The last was 1980 in Cincinnati.
– The Dodgers have failed to play on Memorial Day in 8 seasons from 1890-2007.  These were: 1897, 1909, 1915, 1948, 1986, 1996, 2003, 2007.
– Of those 8 seasons with no games, the first three were Sundays and Brooklyn often did not play on Sundays in those years, especially at home.  In 1948 they were rained out and the four seasons in LA were years they were not scheduled. 

Here’s today’s lineup:

Pierre, LF

Ethier, RF

Martin, C

Kent, 2B

Sweeney, 1B

Kemp, CF

DeWitt, 3B

Maza, SS

Billingsley, P


  1. edwcarter

    Good move to give Loney a break. Just wish someone other that Sweeney could do it for him. DY would work, right?


    What is this lunacy of trying to find the old Sweeney – he’s at least a year past his “outdated” stamp. If Loney needs a day off, and that could very well be, let Tiffee handle first base. I’m past all hope that Torre will ever move Kent out of cleanup, so hopefully Kent can muster a little bit of a resurgence. Sweeney should be long GONE, but the idiots at top don’t want to recognize it.

  3. enchantedbeaver

    ed – Tiffee’s able to play some 1B. Nice to see JoJo reward him for his PH last night.

    From the last thread:

    Yeah dodgerboy – don’t know what kind of program they’ve got running this blog, but its always something – double posts, losing data, flashing bars. Someday maybe they’ll get it fixed.

    Unfortunately I think we’ll be needing a 2B and SS next year. I agree jhall, DeWitt’s the logical choice to slide over with LaRoche playing 3B. Problem solved. Short’s an issue unless Hu takes a lot away from this first year and improves next. DeJesus might be able to make the jump though. Could just let those two battle it out and see what happens.

    Don’t forget though guys, Kuo’s got a serious health history as well.

  4. jhallwally

    Not sure what to make of this lineup. First of all, why isn’t Maza batting 2nd. And freaking Kant batting cleanup is just stupid. I guess a day off for Loney is in order, I can live with that. I would go with:



    Nice move, Joe! Nothing like putting your two hitters who are mired in slumps in the heart of the batting order while you’ve got much better hitters on the bench. You truly have a unique gift of managing!

  6. enchantedbeaver

    Nice line-up JoJo – 8 outs in the middle of the order.

    Cashman was right – don’t sign dubious vets because this idiot will play them.

  7. enchantedbeaver

    JoJo’s so old school thinking… betcha he still has a TV with a round screen and drives an Edsel…

  8. ramslover

    Messagebear, I love your optimism on Kuo, but to have to depend on him full time in the rotation is a lot to ask. I agree that watching him and envisioning Billz, Kuo, Kershaw, and Kuroda….that would be a strong front 4. Power arms is the way to go. I love people who can make people swing and miss!

    As for todays lineup….good that Loney is sitting out, bad that Sweeney is at 1B.

    As a pitcher you cannot be real confident that you are going to get many runs.

  9. jhallwally

    Maza was nails in the 2 spot last night and Ethier and Marty were totally clutch in the 3 and 4 holes. Why change it Joe? To pamper the Hall of Fame baby. Just plain stupid.

  10. enchantedbeaver

    One thing about Sweeney being in the starting line-up – we don’t have to worry about him PHing in a critical situation.

    How’s that for an optimistic look at it???


    The thing that I really hate about Torre’s ultra patient, laid back style is that we’re likely to come to the end of the season only a game or two behind AZ, and we’ll be wishing that we had only won another two or three games earlier on while Torre was still learning this team. He’s clearly giving away games by sticking with Sweeney, by sticking with Jones, by keeping Kent in the cleanup position, no matter what, and by continuing forever with Pierre in the leadoff. This man is showing no fire and drive and can’t make an unpleasant decision about any of the veterans on this club. I’m glad that Jones was taken off his hands; I’m doubly glad that he doesn’t have Nomar or Schidt. If he wasn’t forced into DeWitt and Kershaw, I don’t know where we’d end up. He’s totally miscast away from the Yankees – just another drone who thinks in synch with the Schmoozer, both of them with their noses up McCourt’s you know what.

  12. edwcarter

    Good call Enchanted, Tif would be a way better option at 1B. Seems to me that Joe has thrown in the towel this game before they’ve showed up at the park. Perhaps due to the flight over he feels we can’t win?

  13. enchantedbeaver

    ed – I don’t think JoJo ever met a vet he wouldn’t play no matter how bad they are. Wrong manager, wrong team, wrong time.

  14. alex41592

    I think it’s important to remember what’s truly important on this day and lets hope we bring some particular troops out of a certain country very soon. With that said, Jeff Kent is NOT this bad. He’s still hitting the ball well and those balls will fall soon enough. I also don’t understand how Sweeney over Loney for one game means Torre is throwing in the towel. That just seems nonsensical to me. Lineup actually is exactly how it will be without Furcal it’s just Sweeney playing for Loney. I personally would’ve swapped DeWitt with Sweeney. And actually with Maza over Hu we lose defense but may gain a little with offense. Regardless, to all remember what this day is about and this is just a game. We have people overseas dying for nothing. That’s where the outrage should be focused at least on this day.

  15. enchantedbeaver

    JoJo’s signing was just another PR move by the front office to make us think they have winning as a priority. To Frank, it was terrific publicity that added to the season ticket sales and a great photo op with another icon from the east coast. To Nerd, it was someone who thinks like he does even though it was a totally wrong move for this young team (which virtually ALL of Ned’s moves are.)

    That’s why we need proactive thinkers like White and Ng running the show, and a progressive magager along the lines of a LaRussa type who isn’t afraid to think outside the box. The longer the current duo is in charge, we’ll just keep racking up the years in between WCs.

  16. enchantedbeaver

    No offense Alex, but I don’t see the troops deaths as dying for nothing. Its only nothing if that’s what the likes of Obama and Hillary make of them, and make of us as a weak sniveling nation.

  17. ramslover

    Alex well said about where our focus should be. Thank you to all the soldiers that have and will sacrifice their lives so we can live in a free country.

    That being said, Joe is not throwing the towel in he is merely using a kitchen towel. We can and will win the game. Hell 20 years ago we won with a Shelby, Dave Anderson, Jeff Hamilton, Rick Dempsey…one game does not a season make. Huh? Oh well, Billz will throw a great game and DY wins it off the bench!!!! If he can find his way to the field!


    yesterday on dodgers post game talk, ken levine said that joe has repeatedly said that he wants and will go with experience in the 4/5 spots anytime he can. he has faith in those players, and as long as kent is on this team and starting he WILL be in the 4 spot. he also has faith in sweeney (blind-faith, i say) to come off the bench in clutch situations because he has done so, on so many teams, in so many situations. this is why they were talking about this because the callers were questioning using sweeney over maza, when luis had such a great game (and i complete agree). i was at the game and when i saw sweeney, i was so upset because it was SO predicatable. that whole inning was predictable. i knew that pierre would bunt into a force play and i knew joe would call on sweeney, who i knew would strike out. it’s good that andre saved them. and yet, joe still doesn’t have faith in the kids =*(


    I happen to agree with you on the troops issue, enchanted, but also feel that it’s best to maintain this forum just for Dodgers’ talk. I know that you didn’t initiate the remark. If Ned ever wised up, it would surely cut our blog time in half – No?


    random additional thought.. my co-worker and i are always arguing dodgers.. and it’s quite hilarious, since we’re both huge dodger fans.. but he’s one of those, kids must prove themselves over time, and nomar is still great because of all those things he’s done in the past.. which makes me mad, because i’m all about the youth and in no way should money or experience dictate playing time, especially when the younger guys are clearly outplaying any such veterans.. one time we argued last year, because he was at the game where the crowd booed broxton after one blown game (against the padres i think), and yet nomar was still receiving standing ovations every game (despite struggling bigtime). and i asked him how he could boo someone making league minimum for struggling in one game, while cheering for an overpaid washed up guy who was struggling in everygame and still batting 3rd.. and he said that how could you not respect nomar for everything that he has done and been through.. so anyway, i’m always telling him that while we are both dodger fans, we are definitely not rooting for the same team, and that my dodger team is a lot younger than his dodger team.. haha


    I know everyone’s seemed to have soured on Hu at short, admittedly he has struggled at the plate. I personally know people, knowledgeable people on the triple A level who sing this guys praises. He’s just not ready to face Major League pitching yet. Some players like DeWitt easily make the transition, some need time. Hu should be taking swings at triple A. He’s a Major Leaguer, I have no doubt about that, it’s just too bad that he has to learn on the job at the highest level at the toughest position. He’s only played 45 games at triple A. In fact, if it weren’t for china doll Tony Abreu, that’s exactly where he’d be. He’s there defensively, he needs a lot of 1 on 1 coaching.


    I totally agree that our focus for today should be on the sacrifice so many are making. Freedom isn’t free, and the cost is overwhelming for many, many families. It is certainly a stark contrast to the many overpaid, pampered ballplayers who think they’re something special. And yes, this is only one game and we may actually win, perhaps with Kent and Sweeney contributing. But the problem isn’t so much a one game thing, it’s the pervasive thinking on the part of management that the veterans are something special and the kids have to wait their turn. Yes, Loney could use a rest, but Tiffee is hot and this was a great chance to see what he could do at 1B. But just as Torre used Jones and Sweeney is key pinch hitting spots over the weekend, so he continues ignoring the young talent that he has for struggling vets. The story about Torre intending to rest Kent on Saturday until Kent came to the ball park expecting to play and then the lineup was then changed to include him says a lot about Torre and how he manages. And that does not bode well for the success of the Dodgers.

  23. oldbrooklynfan

    The benching of Loney comes as no suprise, he looked like some time off would be the best thing for him.
    It will be nice to see a change at SS and also Maza shows some “pop” and we can use more.

  24. jhallwally

    Totally agree and well said Sara, Fox, and Kace. Being a veteran myself, I’m with you E on the troops in Iraq. God only knows the travesties we have averted over here by being there and slowing down the terrorist machine. My hats off to all our military personnel, past and present. Now, let’s win this game today.


    Red, I agree with your last statement whole-heartedly. The vets are managing this team, not Torre. How does Torre walk up to a kid who’s been told he’s going to start and tell him that Mr. Kent would rather start today instead. You’ll get your chance when Mr. Kent doesn’t feel like playing.


    Are you guys read for an out!! Mr. .282 OBP as leadoff is coming up next, its time for dodger baseball.

  27. leekfink

    Today’s line-up is an example of what I was talking about in the last thread about LaRoche–if he could play a little first base, it would be great for him to come up. He could then get a start in a situation like today, where Loney gets the day off. And almost everyone agrees that Loney could take a day off to get a little focus back after that bad weekend series (though, he better be back in there tomorrow). Would I rather have Tiffee over Sweeney? Maybe–frankly, as much as people are down on Sweeney, Tiffee is a journeyman and mostly a career minor leaguer. It’s possible that he’s made the leap, but too soon to tell.
    I totally agree with sara–I don’t know what her friend is thinking in justifying booing Broxton but cheering Nomar. I think we should cheer both, but clearly the veteran making a lot of money vs. the kid making the minimum should get the scorn.
    People point out that Torre has too much faith in the old guys and not enough in the kids. There are two things about this, one is not surprising, one is very surprising. First, he’s just more familiar with the veterans, while we are all very familiar with the kids. We were hearing about the Jacksonville 5 in 2005, but Torre did not know who they are until he came over to the Dodgers. This is partly Torre’s fault for not getting to know the team before Spring started, but partly the complicated spring.
    The more surprising problem is that it is common in almost any profession to go with the experience. If you are a manager–either of a baseball team or a company–if you “lose” using the experienced guys, you don’t get in trouble with the higher ups. If you are the general counsel for a company and you hire a big experienced law firm, you don’t get in trouble if they lose the case, but you might if you hire the small fry. The surprising thing is this–the whole point of hiring a Joe Torre is that he should NOT have this fear. He’s Joe-frickin’-Torre! Apparently 4 World Series rings is not enough to gie him the confidence to take a “risky” chance (this, I truly believe was Grady’s problem, because he frankly seemed to like the kids, but couldn’t put them in). Part of the greatness of Mike Scioscia is that he’ll take those chances, and so did Tommy Lasorda, who loved rookies.

  28. enchantedbeaver

    The fact that JoJo always opts to play age over talent is an indication that he just isn’t the right manager for this team (or any really.) With the exception of the Gnats, the NL is becomming a league of youth. Torre’s managing is straight out of the 50’s (and the eastern AL.) And we’ve got him at the helm for another two years after this??

    Just another typical Frank & Furter blunder.


    With Torre’s logic, the “All Spin” Schmoozer is no doubt working on Kent to come back for another year and will probably extend Sweeney’s contract before the All-Star break.


    We have alot of young players playing. We just have a few old guys in key spots that really a real GM would have replaced 3 years ago. The manager has done a good job so far of getting rid of most of the GM’s bad moves. Just a few more to go (pierre if Furcal ever comes back which at this point I certainly with dodger med/x-file history would not bet on it) and Kent.

    The problem is the GM spot. He has to do something, helpful. Enough excuses. We need a bat to protect our young hitters..Obviously Coletti has no idea how to get one who can produce in the middle of the order.

  31. leekfink

    Nice strikeout!
    Makes me feel good we’re not seeing Bad Chad. Just a slightly off pitch to a good hitter in a friendly ballpark (Lee’s HR would be a long out at Dodger Stadium). But now we need our offense to get going.


    Kemp obviously has been watching too many Jones’ batting tapes. Maybe we should get Kent to ride his butt – that might get him mad enough to focus on what the hell he’s doing.


    For those of you lucky enough not to have to watch this game on WGN, Brendley has no idea what he is talking about. Comments about the injured dodger pitching staff, and the whole dodger team battling injuries..nomar, andruw, furcal. To me, only Furcal warrants any mention. BTW, this game might be over in 2hr 15min

  34. stizaza

    we are kind of hitting demster hard, just right at people., ethier, martin, kent, not sweeney, not kemp, dewwitt, maza, even bills, and that was hit pretty hard for pierre. if they keep it up they will start finding holes. we hope anyways.

  35. joyce65

    I could watch it on WGN but I’m not. I can’t stand to listen other teams commentators make such biased comments about the opposing team. I can’t stand the negativity.


    I wish I could watch on KCAL,..I don’t mind other announcers for the fact that I like getting a different point of view or how other teams think of the dodgers. But would it hurt to do a little homework? I watched AZ the other day and it was horrendous. Two homers in the booth. Had to put it on mute. I guess that’s the price we pay for Vin


    I’m surprise is even on Kcal today this early. I really wanted to see Kershaw pitch on live tv.


    We really do not hit good pitching… It seems like everytime we go up against an ace or even a number 2 guy, we do not do well at all.

  39. stizaza

    awful, is there another manager in all of baseball that would continue giving this guy chances to screw everything up

  40. ramslover

    Terrible situational hitting…Marty has to get him over with no outs…The dodgers seem to struggle with this more than anyone else or I just seem to notice it more….terrible…get him over and kent brings him home on the flyball. unbelievable!!!!


    Does anybody broadcasting on WGN or mention how unusual it must be at this stage of the season to have a cleanup man batting all of .230 something and No. 5 barely over .100. Seems very unorthodox to me. Torre is either being very gutsy or stupid. You decide, and Hall of Fame, my A**.

  42. enchantedbeaver

    There’s an old accounting acronym – GIGO – garbage in/garbage out – think it applies to far too many of JoJo’s pet vets.

  43. ramslover

    It looks as if Billz is throwing a great game, it will be a shame if he makes 2 mistakes and loses…C’mon boys Dempster is not Pedro of 1998, hit his a….!!!!

  44. leekfink

    Darn!–I went to tinkle when Kemp came up. I hate to say it, but I should have listened to Steve Lyons.
    Tahnks goodness for TiVo.

  45. enchantedbeaver

    Billz K’s on three pitches swinging. Why not at least get the runner to second with a bunt?

  46. ramslover

    Did we have 1st and 3rd with Billz at the plate and we did not bunt maza over…that is a bonehead play torre…take the DP out of play and now we would be tied!!!! Come on joe the honeymoon is over, show some balls!!!

  47. ramslover

    Now I am glad I am not watching I probably would have thrown something thru the tv…not good with a 4 and 5 year olds watching.

  48. ramslover

    should have known Pierre cannot get it out of the infield…but good going Juan on getting back to within one. Watching Pierre swing, how did he ever hit a HR…he should have been tested after each one of his jacks…

  49. enchantedbeaver

    Snakes still losing 7-3.

    You know if Billz learns to keep his pitch count down like today, he will be the ace that can go 7-8 every outing.

  50. ramslover

    Absolutely agree Enchanted. It is nice to observe the maturation of Billz. I hope this is the one that we will see more often than not.

  51. oldbrooklynfan

    Great going B_I_L_Z
    I sure thought they’d burn us for walking Soriano to lead off the inning.
    But Chad got us through it.
    We’re still in the game.

  52. stizaza

    no so sure we want the bulpen.
    marmol is lights out, then you get wood.
    i think we have to score right now.


    Come on Martin we need a hit with runners in risp and blah 4 for 26 why he had to mention that?

  54. oldbrooklynfan

    After 118 pitches he’s gotta be out of there.
    Maybe we’ll have better luck with the bullpen.

  55. stizaza

    i know but we only have 4 outs, and the cubs pen aint to shabby, thats why i thought we had to score off of dempster, and you cant blame derosa although that one was a good call

  56. ramslover

    great outing by Billz, very encouraging, if now only our so called vets in the rotation can get some consistency maybe we can win 8 out of 10.

  57. oldbrooklynfan

    That was a fabulous job by CHAN HO stopping a well established team from scoring after gettin in trouble.
    Nice Going.

  58. ramslover

    Park makes it interesting, but he is weasling out of jams…it has been a good story so far!!! I like it when old Dodgers come back and do well….You should have never left….


    i say trade penny and lowe get some good prospects. even trade kent. i say this should be a rebuilding year.

  60. alex41592

    Marmol pitched two innings yesterday and pitched an inning the day before that. So he’s probably unavailable today.

  61. enchantedbeaver

    Not that it won’t work out, but why bat for Maza? He’s a contact hitter and Loney’s been striking out a lot lately.

  62. edog07

    So many wasted opportunities. Back to back great pitching performances by our starters and we cannot get them a win.

  63. alex41592

    I mean totally one of those games you know you’re going to lose. We hit the ball well all game long into gloves. Loney misses a grand slam by a yard.

  64. enchantedbeaver

    End result though was a K and another missed opportunity because Torre can’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. As they say almost only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. If he wanted to bat Loney, bat him after Maza. Maza at least makes contact and probably drives in the tying run.

  65. oldbrooklynfan

    OOOH Loney how close can we come?
    I think the ball hit the foul side of the pole.
    The pitching has just been tooooo much.

    Good to Kent back in stride.

  66. enchantedbeaver

    Bottom line is when you load the bases twice in one game with one out and don’t score, you’ve earned the loss.

  67. crzblue2

    Charlie said that Tommy will be singing tomorrow. He was in Michigan with our Single A team. I was wondering why I had not seen him at the stadium.

    Oh rats.. Ramirez with a HR.

  68. oldbrooklynfan

    Too bad, Proctor struck out the side but the Cubs have them consistent HR hitters and sooner or later one mistake and it means another run.

  69. alex41592

    I will say while the balls didn’t fall our way today we’re due for a BIG game maybe as soon as tomorrow. We hit the ball very well today.


    you were joking right shad? hu’s been looking like he’s unsure of what that piece of wood in his hand is supposed to be used for, for oh… the entire season


    No I’m not but anything could happen with all bad luck in this game. You have to have some faith.

  72. enchantedbeaver

    I agree Alex – we’re do for a big game or three.

    Just another mismanaged game by JoJo from starting Sweeney to Loney’s PH. Not blaming Loney mind you – I know he’s not up there trying to strikeout, but he’s in a slump, not making contact, and you have one out and a contact hitter up. Why in hell bat for Maza? Loney bat’s for Park, that’s fine.

    Everyday I find a new reason to dislike JoJo. Thank’s Ned and Frank!!

  73. oldbrooklynfan

    It was a well played game the Dodgers fought as hard as they could but just couldn’t get passed that RISP.
    Once we break that spell we’ll go on a little roll.
    The Snakes lost to keep us close in the N.L. West.
    So it wasn’t that bad a day.


    Well Loney should’ve been producing and not been in this slump but he should’ve started Tiffee. I don’t think you would’ve say nothing at all if Loney ball was fair and I really don’t blame him for sending Loney up in that spot. Why are really complaining about that one? We had many of times to come through but failed miserably.

  75. lny4loney

    Well, goooooollllllyyyyyyy, sarge!! I really thought if we put 78 years of life in the 4 and 5-holes we’d win the game.

  76. oldbrooklynfan

    I think the Dodgers are improving themselves slowly but I think we are suffering through the rapid improvement of the opposition.
    It looks like we just can’t keep up.

  77. kpookiemon

    Can Ned really expect to win close games with a bench consisting of Tiffee, Young, Hu, Sweeney, Maza, and Ardoin? Sure, we’ve lost Furcal and Jones and Nomar and Bennett…but other than Furcal, it’s not like any of those players were lighting up the scoreboard. The reason the Dodgers hitting with RISP is so feeble is because our hitters just aren’t that good. They’re either kids still getting their feet wet or veterans who’ve seen better days. A crazy, bad mix. I’ll chalk up today as being “one of those games,” but we’ve been seeing this inept drama for the past 2 1/3 seasons now.

  78. alex41592

    I fully believe you play the regular season to put yourselves in position for September. We will be up and down the whole season. Great games and frustrating games like this one. Games where we score 30 runs in 4 games and 3 runs in 4 games. But, Arizona won’t be able to run away because they’re not a good road team and they have A LOT of road games coming up. It’s a two team race. Things will get good again and quicker than you think.

  79. lny4loney

    Tomorrow we’ve got Hiroki going agianst the very unimpressive Sean Gallagher (ERA 5.68). If JoJo fields any kind of a sensible lineup, we should win that game.

  80. enchantedbeaver

    IMO, just a bad move Shad. If Loney’s drive is fair, Torre looks brilliant, but it wasn’t. Loney’s’ in a slump. Not just a slump, a striking out slump, so staying with a contact hitter would’ve been the better choice in that situation. Change the name if you’d like – it could’ve been anybody struggling – Kemp, Marty, Andre – if they were slumping and striking out I’d want the contact hitter up then too. Its not the man, its the set of facts. I’ve less objection to Loney batting for the pitcher, but to put him up there for a .389 hitting contact hitter was a stupid move by JoJo. Granted there were plenty of other missed opportunities as well, by why help the opposition by being stupid? Then to give away 4 outs with a .100 hitter batting 5th… Its like I’ve said before, this team wins in spite of Torre, not because of him.


    Just like last year bench right? I missed that bench from 2 years ago. Maybe we should’ve resigned Saenz over Sweeney or maybe Dreifort would come out of retirement and be available to PH and he was a great hitter and owed us a lot of money. Maybe Hershiser and Valenzuela can also ome out of retirement to hit


    I’d rather have him there until 2012 and moved him in that cleanup spot and have Loney bat 5th.


    Games like this happen all the time. That’s just baseball. Our younger players (who are allowed to play) are developing and gaining experience. What is inexcusable is not what the players are doing – it’s what the manager is doing. Torre is being paid a huge amount of money for a manager to bring some expertise to that position. Instead, he ignores common sense and relies on his gut feelings and how players have performed in the past. If a veteran is not performing, he continues to play him and provides excuses for the lack of performance and rationalizes playing him. Today’s game promised to be a tight game based on who the pitchers were. It’s not the type of game (if there ever is that type of game) where you start a player batting around .100 and bat him FIFTH. Especially when you have several other choices who are batting much higher. Then, as has already been pointed out, you don’t take Maza out with only one out and bring in Loney for a PH. Yes, if Loney’s drive had stayed fair it would have made Torre look great, but it would still not have been the smartest move. Right now Loney is in a strikeout mode. He should have been used with two out, and if you had to replace Maza, Young would have been a much better choice. He is patient at the plate and is more likely to draw a walk or put the ball in play to score a run. The ball he eventually hit would have scored a run. So I think much of the blame for the Dodger’s record so far this year belongs to Torre. He should be managing the Yankees where his managing ability wouldn’t have much affect on the outcome.


    Torre’s only success came when he basically had an unlimited payroll. Now, our payroll isn’t exactly shabby, except that it is mostly wasted on people who either don’t perform or who wind up crippled after all the extensive medical exams that Conte purportedly supervises. I would give Torre a fat D for what he has accomplished with and for our team so far. Ned, of course, is way off the scale for any measurable positive results, and I can’t wait for the worthless piece of crap to be sacked one of these days. The smell has to get to McCourt some time, even if he’s holding his nose as we go along.

  85. kssssss

    OK….Are the Dodgers ever going to be like other teams with 3,4,5,6 hitters that are real sluggers?..It seems for as long as I can remember the Dodgers have been on the low end always for home runs etc etc etc…It’s frustrating that we have a general manager that thinks he can solve the problem by signing Andruw Jones…but what I want to know is why are we constantly in this position?…Why can’t we be a fast team and a home run hitting team?..It is sooo boring to watch this team struggle every year…Kent is done..Nomar on his way out….please take Proctor, Sweeney, Schmidt, Jones and any others with you on the way out…!!!..Please find a GM that can build a team with some real offense…if our pitchers aren’t perfect, they have no chance with this team….Bills should have won this game today…I would be mad if I were him….

  86. kssssss

    If you were the opposing pitcher and looked at our line up , wouldn’t you be thrilled?…Our lineup is like JV playing against the Big Boys….not a fair fight Ned….please leave with all your has been veterans that you have signed…If I have to hear one more time how Sweeney is the best pinch hitter in the game, I’ll puke….nice average Sweeney…another used up old veteran….BYE BYE..
    Anyone looking at our lineup today knew it spelled a loss….thanks Joe..


    enchanted maybe we should’ve moved Sweeney batting 9th or maybe we got the wrong one and should’ve had the other former Royals captain/Oakland player.

  88. enchantedbeaver

    Yeah Shad, Sweeney’s just one of those guys that Ned (re)signed on reputation. Not that his rep as a PH didn’t warrant some consideration, but after watching him time and again, and giving him extra ABs, its pretty apparent its time for him to move on as he’s done nothing to help this club, nor will he on anykind of consistant basis. I just for the life of me can’t figure out how a guy with Torre’s supposed managerial skills and a guranteed 3-year contract can keep making the same miscalculations and gaffs over and over again. He has nothing to fear from management… Bear’s right, anyone can manage when given an unlimited payroll and a GM who knows (for the most part) how to use it. But when you have Ned supplying the “talent” and JoJo using the “talent”, its a bad combination. I can live with the kids failing. Give them enough time and experience and many of those failures will turn into successes. I just can’t stand seeing anyone call a stupid game when we as laypeople can foresee the outcome before it happens.

  89. enchantedbeaver

    Sad thing is I know Torre doesn’t set out to lose, but he appears to still be managing the Yankees. I know I’ve harped on this before, but you don’t start out wanting a kids manager in Girardi, then when he’s not available do a 180 and sign a vets manager in Torre. It was just another blunder in a series of blunders by Frank & Furter, more PR than any real attempt to establish a winner.


    last 18 games dodgers have scored

    59 runs for 3.27 a game

    by comparison the previous 18 games with Furcal in leadoff

    102 runs for for 5.6 runs a game

  91. jhallwally

    E, Bear, Fox, and Drpd, all good points and I agree. Sweeney of the .100 BA playing much less batting 5th is just plain ignorant. That is my biggest peeve with this game. Pinch hitting for Maza was also freaking stupid. At least Jeffy got some hits today. Maybe he will get it going. I hope so as Joe will continue to run him out there in the 4 hole.

  92. vbd2004

    The cub anouncers said Sweeny has played for many teams and been released many times .Why would the dodgers want to sign him –so he can be released?? after being released why sign him and expect any better than the last team ,also they really didn’t thiink much of Kemp ,said he could hit the fast ball but not a slider ,seems Dewitt was having trouble with sliders also .maybe they need Mattingly to se if he can help the hitting

  93. kssssss


    I agree…I would rather have all kids out there and let them gain experience…We’re not going anywhere this year ( for a change)…so let them go out there everyday and learn the game…so maybe by next year they will be better and NED will be gone..LOL….and possibly we can sign some guys that aren’t past their prime with the hopes of getting their batting average over 225…Anyone could see Andruw was on the decline…but Ned….must be nice to spend someone else’s money Ned and piss it away!!…We all said that about Loiaza and look where he is….at least we’ve had 1 game out of Schmidt…lol…..

  94. selltheteam

    Andy LaRoche played 1B for the 51s today and yesterday. I think the piano is about to fall on Sweeney. Or does his BA need to start with a zero before Ned realizes that it’s time for another DFA?


    What the heck is Ned’s batting AVG? How far does that need to fall before he is DFA’ed?

  96. selltheteam

    Good point, jungar. Let’s see, I’d give him Furcal (although the poor guy’s been injured quite a bit). The following go against him – Nomore, Sweeney, Jones, Schmidt, Tomko, Lurch, – how’s he doing so far? 1 for 7 is .143. I know I’m missing quite a few though.

  97. jhallwally

    Add Pierre, Seo, Baez, Carter, Bloaiza, Bennett and Lugo. Give him a home run for Ethier. That’s 2 for 14. .143 still. He’s in Jones territory.

  98. jhallwally

    You could even add Toby Hall and Shea Hillenbrand if you want. Plus the washed up former closer he got last year. Hernandez I think it was.

  99. selltheteam

    But since there is no union for GM’s, Frank doesn’t need to do the DFA. Just fire his sorry a&&.


    Loaiza was selected off waivers by the Dodgers from Oakland on August 29, 2007 in one of the biggest gifts ever bestowed upon A’s GM Billy Beane.

    Los Angeles agreed to pay $1.17 million of Loaiza’s remaining 2007 salary and assume responsibility for his $7M salary in 2008 plus the $7.5M option or $0.375M buyout in 2009. As such, the Dodgers paid the 36-year-old righthander $8.545 million for 46 2/3 innings, 50 hits, 36 runs (all earned), 21 walks, 24 strikeouts, 12 home runs allowed, and an ERA of 6.94.

  101. jhallwally

    You know, when Ned’s performance is reviewed and really scrutinized, it is even worse than you think. My god, does Frank not see this. Perhaps Frank is the real moron for hiring this dimwit and keeping him around.

  102. enchantedbeaver

    Ned’s average: .205 Slugging: .410 OBP:.311

    HR: Saito
    3B: Ethier
    2B: Nomar I, Furcal, Kuroda
    1B: Lofton, Biemel, Maddux

    BB: Betemit, Anderson, Sele, Wolf, Maza, Park

    Ground Outs: Baez, Hill, Gonzalez, Alomar, Hamulak, Diaz, Pierre, Lieberthal, Sweeney I, Wells, Proctor, Tsao

    K: Jones, Schmidt, Carter, Sao, Loaiza, Hernandez, Nomar II, Tomko, Hendrickson, Lugo, Mueller, Hillenbrand, Erickson, Dessens, Martinez, Clark, Sweeney II, Moeller, Bennett

    Feel free to move the names about as you see fit. Not sure he’s the one that acquired Biemel, so rate accordingly. I may have been generous with some and hard on some others, and didn’t really weight their impact as a regular or reserve. Also, if I’ve missed any, please insert and adjust the numbers accordingly. Final analysis, Ned bites.

  103. enchantedbeaver

    I suppose you could also add Grady Little and Torre to the K list as well, putting his average under the Mendoza line.


    A very dismal record, indeed. The only variation I have is Torre. Grady was clearly Ned’s man, and I think he would have tried hard to persuade Grady to come back. I think that adding Torre was really Frank’s decision, and a publicity one from the ownership standpoint. Ned may have even been threatened by having someone on board who had the record and credentials of Torre, which would clearly overshadow his own. Unfortunately, as we’re constantly finding out, they both share that “veterans above all” feeling when it comes to decisions on the field. The only time their veteran oriented fixation is disrupted is when their guys join the DL list. If it wasn’t for that, we’d be seeing a steady lineup that includes Nomar and Jones to this day, no matter their actual performance. Nothing is really going to change until there is a change at the top – the GM level. Putting Logan White in charge would be the only sure fired way to carry through with the youth revolution.

  105. lny4loney

    From the L.A. Times
    “That’s one thing we have to make sure we guard against,” Torre said. “We have to stay within our abilities and be patient. It’s a boring game sometimes, but that’s what you have to do if you expect to be successful. The toughest thing for inexperienced players is the patience part.” — JoJo the Clown
    “I probably took too many pitches,” Loney said. “Maybe I’m not aggressive enough in the strike zone.”

    That was why hitting coach Mike Easler was so pleased with Loney’s bases-loaded at-bat against Bob Howry in the eighth even though the result wasn’t what Loney wanted. Loney fouled off the first two pitches, took a ball, and fouled off two more before striking out.

    “I liked the way he attacked the ball,” Easler said. “He was swinging at strikes.”
    If either of these two is correct, it’s Easler. Our young guys generally have more than enough patience at the plate. And they certainly have shown plenty of patience with JoJo too, as he has screwed around with their heads and their playing time.
    Loney has pretty much been excepted from Tory’s tinkering. But I remember about a month ago, he said something to the effect that Loney should take a different approach at the plate. Since then Loney’s average has dropped by about 40 points. Why a guy who was hitting about .320 through his first 550 major league ABs needs unsolicited advice from a guy he essentially must listen to is a mystery to me.
    Just anther one of the mysterious decisions Dodgers management — on field and off — has made in the last couple of years.

  106. lny4loney

    More from the JoJo in the Times (same story)
    “Dodgers Manager Joe Torre said he couldn’t fault his players. … What the Dodgers’ lineup lacks is experience, Torre said, not effort.”
    But the players can fault JoJo. Obviously the Nincompoop from New York, the Arrogant A** from the Big Apple, the Yahoo from Yankeedom, is referring to the young players. I guess he thinks that inserting the very experienced Mark Sweeney in the 5-hole yesterday didn’t have anything to do with the loss.
    I’m really starting to miss the relative wisdom of Grady Little.

  107. junkyardjamie

    I read all those articles with Torre commenting on the kids’ inexperience. Is he not watching the same games we are? If the kids are suffering from inexperience, what in the world is happening to the vets? Their “experience” sure isn’t helping the team either. I will take an inexperienced Martin, Ethier, Kemp and Loney over an “experienced” Jones, Pierre, Kent and Sweeney. At least with the kids, we know what we are getting into, and I am willing to accept the inexperience if that’s what Joe wants to call it.

  108. jhallwally

    LOL Nelly. Well said and I agree whole heartedly. They keep trying to spin it to look like we are playing mediocre because of the young players inexperience when it is the dismal performances by the PVL’s that were brought in to bridge the gap and keep us competitive that is dragging this team down. What is scary and very unsettling is that I think Frank, Ned, and Joe actually believe their own bullsh*t.

  109. kpookiemon

    Ned’s critique must also include the “non-moves:” Keeping Loney and Kemp in the minors for last year’s first half. Failure to solve the DY problem (sorry, a guy making the 25-man roster just because he’s out of options does not constitute a “plan”). Failure to promote Repko after a quality Spring (.343 average), especially now that Jones has gone down.

  110. kpookiemon

    And while we’re at it, giving Ned a home run on Saito dismisses the reality that Saito opened the season at AAA, another testimony to Ned’s superior judgment of talent.

  111. enchantedbeaver

    Ned’s probably kicking himself right now for not picking up Edmunds when he had the chance…

  112. jhallwally

    The article a few weeks ago really said it all. The team is succeeding with the players developed by Logan White and acquired by DePo. Ned and his acquisitions has basically hindered the progress of the team.


    I thought we read this stuff last year. Just look at all of Neds midd order bats..nomar to replace drew, jones to replace nomar, kent age 38, 39, 40.. and then they complain about what 24 year olds are doing. Which I am sure they are doing things wrong at times. But there they go going public again….Go away Ned.

    Guys it’s easy to stack up the moves and complain, but add to it the moves he hasnt been able to make.

  114. jhallwally

    Yep Jungar, its the same old song and dance as last year. You’d think they would have learned by now. The PVL thing didn’t work and is not working now. Cash in your chips and move to another table. Ned keeps trying to fix the team with coat hangers and duct tape when we need new parts for any long term stability and competitiveness. By new parts I mean the talented young players we already have.

  115. dodgereric

    What I thought was interesting in this latest “blame the youth” explanation is the following conflict:

    Torre: “We have to stay within our abilities and be patient. It’s a boring game sometimes, but that’s what you have to do if you expect to be successful. The toughest thing for inexperienced players is the patience part.”
    That certainly falls into place with his theory that you need to consistantly go deep into the count even though it means you have to take strikes early.

    Loney: “Mattingly and Loney also talked about his approach, with Loney conceding that he swung at first-pitch strikes too infrequently in the preceding six-game homestand. Loney was five for 22 in those games.

    “I probably took too many pitches,” Loney said. “Maybe I’m not aggressive enough in the strike zone.”

    That was why hitting coach Mike Easler was so pleased with Loney’s bases-loaded at-bat against Bob Howry in the eighth even though the result wasn’t what Loney wanted. Loney fouled off the first two pitches, took a ball, and fouled off two more before striking out.

    “I liked the way he attacked the ball,” Easler said. “He was swinging at strikes.”

  116. enchantedbeaver

    Might as well start at the top. Frank likes to play owner, but he doesn’t like to be owner and take responsibility for those he hires to run the show, nor pay any attention to the make-up of his product. Frank’s all about photo ops, and if it doesn’t effect his bottom line in any real way, I doubt he even notices what goes on. He’ll mouth the words to keep the crowds coming, but in reality is rather apathetic to the whole endeavor.

    Ned’s a refugee from a dying organization who learned his trade from the absolute worst GM on the planet. Aging vets are what he learned and aging vets are what we get. Occasionally he falls bassackwards into clover (Saito & Ethier), most of the time he falls face first into schmidt. Real statistical anaylsis eludes him, and because the young guys don’t have a history he can look up in a media guide and see hits and average (the only two statistical items he understands) over a 10 year period, discounts their worth.

    JoJo is an antiquated fellow who had the benefit of managing a team for 12 years that went out and bought virtually every worthwhile player on the market. You have to go back 20 years to get a read on his true managerial capabilities, which are hardly HOF. He’s very old school in his “approach”, which is diametrically opposed to a rebuilding organization. The fact that he has to see over and over again the vets fail, then still make excuses for them means he’s set in his ways and will not change even when confronted with reality.

    My conclusion therefore is that this organization is completely dysfunctional in every sense of the word.

  117. kpookiemon

    Maybe we need a young general manager and a young field manager to appreciate youth. How about Zach and Cody?

  118. dodger 32

    Same old song. Management doesn’t have a clue. How many other teams in the league have a number 5 hitter batting 100? How many other teams would hang onto a 40 year old guy hitting 100? The answer is none, if it weren’t Tomato Seanz would still be employed somewhere. I’m shocked that Ned hasn’t called up Tomato and asked him to come play for the Dodgers. Stop wasteing roster spots with washed up Vets. Also Tiffee, Maza, Sweeney, how does management expect to win with guys like these on the 25? If you’re going to keep D.Y. on the 25 , then use him. What are you keeping him for if you’re not going to use him?

  119. jhallwally

    Sung to Taxman by the Beatles.

    Let me tell you how it will be.
    There’s kids for you.
    And old vets for me.
    Cause I’m the Nedman.
    Yeah, I’m a numbskull.

    Should the kids at bats appear too small.
    Be thankful I don’t trade them all.

    Cause I’m the Nedman.
    Yeah, I’m a numbskull.

    If the kids play well.
    I’ll sit their butts.
    If the vets still s*ck.
    That’s your tough luck.
    If they are too old.
    I’ll play them more.
    If they get too sore.
    I’ll get some more.


    Cause I’m the Nedman.
    Yeah, I’m a numbskull.

    Don’t ask me why I brought them here.
    Ahh, I’m a numbskull)
    If you don’t want me to bring in more.
    (Ahh, I’m a numbskull)

    Cause I’m the Nedman.
    Yeah, I’m a numbskull.

    And my advice for those that thrive.
    You can sit your a** on pine.

    Cause I’m the Nedman.
    Yeah, I’m a Numbskull.
    That its not working really doesn’t bother me.

  120. enchantedbeaver

    To the Ides of March, Vehicle:

    Hey well
    I’m your friendly GM with a black mustache
    Won’t you buy into my hype
    I got vet’rans, FAs
    And a bunch of old castoffs
    And they’re all a little bit past ripe
    I’m your GM baby
    I’m gonna drag this team down below
    I’m your GM woman
    But I’m not sure that you know
    That old vet’rans
    I need them
    I want them
    Got to have them now
    Great God in heaven you know love them

    Well if you want to be a first place team
    I’ll get you Schmidt, Pierre and Tomko too
    But if you want to stay the course with the youngsters
    You know I really don’t think we should
    I love vet’rans baby
    They’re gonna take us all down below
    I love vet’rans woman
    By now I’m sure you know
    That I screwed up
    With stinkos
    Got you Torre too
    Great Dodger in the sky I loathe you

    Hey well
    I’m your friendly GM with a black mustache
    Won’t you buy into my hype
    I got vet’rans, FAs
    And a bunch of old castoffs
    And they’re all just a little bit past ripe
    I’m your Gmanager baby
    I’m gonna this team down below
    I’m your Gmanager woman
    By now I’m sure you know
    That I‘m busy (busy)
    Blocking (blocking)
    All of (all of)
    White’s boys too

    Hey Dodger fans you know I screeew-o-o-o-o-d you

  121. kpookiemon

    Out of boredom this fine Tuesday morning I looked at hitting stats. For both leagues, the average age of the top ten home run hitters is 28.7 years…for the top ten in batting average (minimum 100 ABs), it’s 29.5 years. So hitting obviously takes time. Kemp, Loney, Martin, DeWitt, Ethier are nowhere near those ages, though they seem to be way ahead of schedule. As usual, play the kids, give them time, stay with the farm. You can’t hurry love…or championships.

  122. enchantedbeaver

    Interesting on the ages Kahli that neither fit with Nerd’s or JoJo’s idea of a “veteran.”

  123. junkyardjamie

    Nice one jhall!! BTW – I like my nickname (they used to call my father-in-law Nellie, and in this town his name was synonomous with youth baseball – even has a field named after him).
    thanks, dodgereric – the wall is going to look great!!

    I was thinking about all of you yesterday when I couldn’t post (My phone only allows me to read and not post – strange), and in my attempt to be creative, I came up with a few poems about those of you who post often. Also, If your name is not mentioned, don’t worry, I am working on others – I am just not as fast as the “chosen ones.” My best teaching subjects are math, science and social studies.

    Here it goes:

    enchanted, jhall, and dogereric,
    the boys of verse and rhymes
    creating songs and poems
    to help us through these times.
    can’t forget PierreEW
    from the east coast point of view
    keeping us calm and positive
    while bleeding Dodger blue.
    then there’s leefink and MLK
    what more is there to say
    Saying them loud and saying them proud
    their Dodger chants with a sold-out crowd.

    From the Dodger fans who speak their mind
    We want a team that is one of a kind
    Play the kids, like Andre and James
    It’s the only way to win these games.

    to be continued…. 🙂

  124. junkyardjamie

    jhall and enchanted – incredible, fabulous, hilarious, stupendous, fantastic – what more is there to say, but WOW!!!!!!!!!!

  125. junkyardjamie

    Kahli – it is truly amazing how young this team is and to look and see a bright future if “they”(Ned, etc) will only let it be.

  126. junkyardjamie

    There is a lot to live up to with this group – you all are just amazing with your talent, as well as knowing your facts, which makes this group the best out there. There is no comparison to the knowledge this group has to back up what they are saying. It’s made me a researcher for information, and that in itself has showed me how incredible this young group of Dodgers will be if given the chance. I have been looking into their backgrounds and how they got to where they are today, and boy, they all have such determination to be here, and it will be a very sad day to lose any of them because of the stupidity of our management.

  127. enchantedbeaver

    To the Coasters Yakety Yak:

    Get’s us Hall and Tsao and Jones
    Nomore’s a pile of bones
    Get’s us Schmidt, Wells and Pierre
    And kisses Frank’s old derriere
    Colletti Co. (He don’t know)

    Like’s the Vet’rans for his team
    Marty, Kemp and Hu too green
    Loaiza, Hendy and Bomko
    Wants old man Giles but he don’t show
    Colletti Co. (He don’t know)

    Puts on his thinking cap
    And gets us a buncha crapp
    And when he finished doin’ that
    Signs two guys that just can’t bat
    Colletti Co. (He don’t know)

    Hall and Clark and Bennett too
    Bleeds Giant orange not Dodger Blue
    Just tell the fans that its too late
    For next year they’ll have to wait
    Colletti Co. (He don’t know)

  128. jhallwally

    Thanks Nelly. Glad you like the moniker. You certainly are carrying on the legacy for Nellie. Great poem. I can’t wait for more verses.
    E, you’re gifted my friend.


    i know this is irrelavent to the post, but i’m so done with chin lung hu. He’s terrible offensively, and average out in the field. The dodgers really need to send him back to triple A again where he was tearing it up.

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