One night down…
The first day of the meetings came and went relatively quietly, not just for us but for all of the teams. Ned met with all our media members late last night (during the finish of the Patriots game) and I think the most interesting thing that we learned was that a few years ago, he and Brian Sabean signed Tom Brady to a contract for $1 when he came out to take batting practice with the Giants.
Otherwise, he reiterated that starting pitching remains a top priority and that we’ve made an offer to Hiroki Kuroda, the Japanese starting pitcher who has been most highly sought. He said that while we do have an interest in Andruw Jones and/or Aaron Rowand, right now we’re very far apart in both years and dollars for both players. The Miguel Cabrera situation does not appear to have changed at all, with demands simply too high for it to fit right now. And finally, he said that there are still a few of our own free agents who we are considering re-signing, including Mike Lieberthal, Mark Sweeney and Rudy Seanez, among others.
The rest of the day was filled with the previously mentioned great news that Walter O’Malley will be inducted into the Hall of Fame, as will former Brooklyn outfielder **** Williams. We also signed an amateur Japanese pitcher named Robert Boothe.
Joe Jareck and I spent the day in PR meetings with the other 30 teams which were both informative and fascinating at times. After James Carville and Mary Matalin spoke to the entire MLB contingent at the Fall Business Meetings two weeks ago, Ari Fleischer, the former White House press secretary, gave us a glimpse at presidential PR and how it relates to the things that we do. It’s not every day you get to hear stories like his and it was very interesting stuff.
Finally, we attended a reception in which Rich Levin of Major League Baseball was given the annual Fishel Award for Public Relations Excellence and we also got the chance to attend a dinner with about 50 employees from our minor league affiliates across the country.
Day two starts early (heading out now)…hope to have something interesting to post later.
Inside the Dodgers 
kudos to Ned for not getting into a bidding war for the FA.
It will be interesting to see how the young players develop under Torre. I’d give Repko a real shot at center.
Thanks for the update Josh. Sounds like a wonderful day.
Ned, stop saying you are looking for ways to improve the team and just do it. All you have to do is 3 moves and our ballclub will become a legit contender next year.
1. Trade Pierre at whatever cost.
2. Give Jones a 2 year contract he can’t refuse. He has something to prove so he won’t be a bust.
3. Sign a free agent pitcher for a few years wether it be Kuroda or a Silva type player to hold down the 4th spot until Kershaw and possibly McDonald are ready.
Why do the fans have to spend their hard earned money on the Dodgers if you aren’t going to spend it? Spend the money and improve the ball team.
So when did the Dodgers turn into the Royals? Frank’s raising ticket and parking prices , yet he won’t spend the money on improving the team. Loney , Kemp etc are great young players but by not signing an outfielder who can hit with power, and throw, you’re throwing away the 08 season. Remember even the Rockies and DBacks finished last for a few years until the kids developed, what makes the Ds any different?
Well for starters the Dodgers young guys are much better and have much more experience.. AND lets please not spend money for the sake of spending it. You can say “give Jones a 2 year deal that he cant refuse” all you want, but if he wants a 5 yr deal he wont suddenly accept a 2 year deal. Better to start low anyways in negotiations of this sort.. And with the FA pitcher– i wouldnt give Kuroda a 4 yr/44 mil contract that supposedly the Mariners offered.
If you offered Jones a 2 year $38-$40 million contract he’d be on the next flight to LA. He’d be the age Hunter is now when the contract expired and his career would be revitalized and would then get a bigger contract than the current one Hunter has. I agree on the Kuroda contract though. It wouldn’t work but the best offer I’d give him would be 2 years for $15 million that would include incentives that could make the contract worth up to $20 million. I’d throw in team options for years 3 and 4 with his salary reaching $10-$12 million in those 2 years. Like I said, it won’t work but that’s all I’d give him. He hasn’t proven anything over here yet so I wouldn’t pay him like he has. But no matter what Ned does, I won’t believe he’s trying to make the team better unless Pierre is gone, even if we have to buy out his contract. You can atleast trade him for a minor leaguer.
$10-$12 million a year in that Kuroda deal.
reading the comments on the la times by ned. everyday i get more disappointed with ned. the dodgers lead the major leagues in attendence and raise parking fees but still do not want to do anything!!! since when are we the MARLINS!
Unless we replace Pierre, there will always be that weak spot in the batting order and the weak (run on it every time) arm in that big center field. Dealing Pierre is the first and the last big priority. Don’t hear any mention of that in Colletti’s Q&A’s, and you wouldn’t expect to. I hope there is some quiet and urgent discussion about that with all of the other teams.
i really hope that ned is putting up a front when he says that he dodgers are changing course. i have a hard time dealing with the fact that ned knows what the problems were at the end of the year as far as power goes and yet he id determined to go witht he same team..some one please help me understand this.
Get Pierre out of center field.
And please, as much as I love Martin… force him to take a rest more often than last year. He was a mess at the end of the season.
I’m another newcomer to this blogging thing. I’ve been reading this one for a few days now and have been impressed by a lot of you as good Dodger fans. I’ve been a baseball junkie in general for almost 50 years and have bled Dodger Blue the whole time. I love to watch the kids come up thru the minors, so I tend to agree with all of you who don’t want our team to shred the kids and overpay in panic to improve.
Here’s something I just read on the Sporting News website:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=313953
We’re not alone out there.
We need to hurry up and give Jones a 3 year $50 million contract already. We cannot afford to sit back and wait, we need a new CFer. Even if Jones puts up offensive seasons like ’07 we need his defense. If he still hasn’t figured out his stroke, bat him 7th. Our team should be built on pitching and defense and you don’t get much better than Andruw in center. If we can get this deal done, we can turn all of our attention to pitching (which needs to be addressed).
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr. Colletti!!! Your words and attitude are very encouraging. Please stick with them and stay the course. You are right in your evaluation of your talent and the current market. Don’t listen to the naysayers who would have you spend mega bucks and be saddled with players who may not perform and will block your young talent like what has happened in the past. Those who are clamoring for the necessity to sign a power hitter at any cost forget that when the season end tail spin happened the Dodgers were scoring enough runs to win most of those games. It was late inning bullpen problems that led to many of those losses.
Keep up the good work of staying the course. The Dodgers will be better than most people think next season with the talent you already have.
Great. Now there’s talk of that junk called Mike Cameron. And adding another outfielder moves Pierre to LF and makes Ethier or Kemp EXPENDABLE?
Are you kidding me?
Why isn’t Pierre ever mentioned as expendable?
There’s a 5000 lb. gorilla in the room named Juan Pierre and not one of these stupid reporters has the eyes to see it?
What the he11 is going on here?
Which team was it that got shut out all those games? Wasn’t it the Ds? Jones in an off year still had 94 RBIs. Who on the Ds had 94 RbIs and over 20 homers? Fine keep and play the kids, but spend what you have too, to improve the team. Jones is a mega upgrade over little Juan.
i agree with harris,
we need to move in on jones, we would still have all our farm system intact, but remeber we need a BIG BAT on our line-up. I dont understand how we can stand put and not add power to our lineup and wait for another year!!!!
If the Dodgers don’t get Jones then we might as well prepare for another 4th place finish. One player doesn’t make a team but one player can make the differance. Jones is a difference maker in the field and as fliegel said, he drives in runs in a bad year. Jones is well worth the money. He’s worth 6 years at $115 million. The guy is a gamer. He shows up ready to play everyday. Hurt or not he’s in the line-up. Oh yeah and he’s a positive figure in the clubhouse.
okay, here is one that will make sence, if the dodgers want to spend money, which I don’t think they do. Sneak in and offer this package to minn.for santana a lefty. Offer Penny, a righty, and a very fine pitcher, but not a Santana, also throw in Henderickson, who pitched better in the a.l. include Pierre, and one or two relief pitchers like alexander,or ramon troncoso. 3 players who could help them now plus one or two pitchers with some future, but blocked in L.A. by Meloan
Like I said before we’re not the Royals. If we have to over pay to get something we need , who cares? Frank makes money and will make more by raising prices anyway. After all we gave Pierre 45 Mil for 5 years. I’d rather have Jones.
German, it is day one of the winter meetings– calm down. It would be pretty dumb to offer Jones a huge contract when no other team has yet to even offer him one.. Ned is being a good businessman and GM.. If we offer him 3 year, 50 mil he would say no i want 5 year 90 mil, and we just lost a bargaining chip. And cam, you are absolutely wrong to assume that Jones would take a fat short contract. All players want security when possible, especially one of his caliber.
ewk,
i know it is day one, but ned is not even close to coming to grips with the reality of this lineup. i am not saying give jones what he wants, but it is getting old news with ned and his “will wait and see what the youngsters bring to the table”. HELLO did he not see what happened last year!
Absolutely move on Jones. You have to be strong defensively up the middle, not that embarrassment we watched last year. Any offense is a plus. Give him option years that will fill out the contract as long as he performs. Eat some or all of Pierre’s contract. If no one wants him, cut him or use him as a PR. But the OF should be Ethier, Jones, Kemp.
Money should not be a concern. The clubs do very well, particularly the ones that have good attendance. We shouldn’t give up the kids that the Twins and Marlins want for overfed clubhouse cancers or starting pitching that can only win 1 in 5 games at best. For Pete’s sake, if we give up Loney and Kemp and Kershaw and heaven knows what else, that will create more holes that have to be filled.
He’ll have no choice to take a short term contract. He may get 4 years but unless he takes a short term contract he’ll never be able to hit it big. But like I said, I’d give him 6 years and $115 million. He is that good defensively. He means that much to a pitching staff. His offensive numbers would just be icing on the cake. He’s the best CF in the game and he deserves to be paid like it. The Dodgers have the money and here’s a player they need so it’s time to spend it.
we should trade Bills,Loney Laroche for Cabrerra
we should trade Kershaw, Kemp and Broxton for Santana
There is your big bat and big ace. maybe we win it all in 2008 or 2009.
Furcal
JP
Cabrerra
Kent
Ethier
Martin
Nomar
Mike Sweeny
Santna
Penny
Lowe
Schmidt
Wolf
Saito
beimel
proctor
And then maybe we will give Miggy his 200 million contract and Johan his 200 million contract in 09.
Then we can go out thru free agency and fill holes such as starting pitcher(2), closer, RF, 1b
Would that make you happy?
—
The dodgers right now are looking alot like the 1995 yankees. The 1990 Braves, the current Indians…And I like it.
oops. that was a slip. it should be loazia, not wolf..and if loazia wins 9 games id be shocked.
Agreed cameron, we can’t afford to nickel and dime Jones, we need to lock him up. In fact if we don’t sign Jones, I don’t want any piece of Rowand or Cameron (Jones is that much better). Rowand would just be another albatross contract (along with Pierre) IMO and Cameron is overrated and hopped up on greenies (i’ll pass).
I really hope Ned is just posturing. We really need a clean up hitter. Kemp and Loney are not there yet, and Kent is not the answer anymore either. We need a proven player who’s in his prime to surround the kids and Kent. Then and only then will this team be competitive,
Who fliegel? I want one too but Jones (still want him and want Pierre by-by) is not a cleanup hitter anymore and the guys that are will cost us Kemp and Loney or Bills etc.
Jones, who’s only 30, could be an excellent value now considering he’s averaged 37 home runs and 112 RBIs over his past five seasons, compared to 24 and 89 for Hunter, who got $90 million over five years from the Angels, and 16 and 60 for Rowand.
Jones, who had 26 home runs and 94 RBIs but hit only .222 last year, has seven 30-home run seasons compared to a combined one for Hunter and Aaron Rowand (it was Hunter who had it). Jones has had by far the better career than Hunter. He’s been the better center fielder and the better hitter over his career. He’s also two years younger. But it’s a case of, What have you done lately? And it’s hurting Jones.
Jones’ old team, the Braves, are still looking for a center fielder but have said they won’t try to keep Jones and will go with youth instead.
TRADE PIERRE
SIGN JONES
SIGN KURODA
If JP got 5yrs/45 mil, no wonder Jones wants twice that.
Hey stupid GM’s: STOP OVERPAYING FOR **** IF YOU WANT REASONABLE SALARIES FOR GOOD PLAYERS!
Love the sarcasm jungar, we do need to stick it out on the trade front but the FA front needs to be addressed. We need to sign Jones and then trade Pierre (while eating half of his contract) to Texas for Wes Littleton or CJ Wilson. Both are effective middle-relievers and would help shore up our bully (plus they’re both local guys). Then we need to sign Kuroda and roll the dice with him.
Interesting proposition, jungar. The only defense in that lineup is at short and behind the plate. We’d still have the weakest CF in baseball. Kent is sliding fast. Nomar will spend another 2 months minimum on the DL again. Sweeney is a PH because he isn’t good enough to play every day. Signing both Cabrera and Santana will not allow us to add any FAs in the next 5 years. And watching at least 5 of those 6 guys that you trade play in the All-Star game for the next 10 years would give me ulcers.
No, that would not make me happy.
This interview has to be fake.
http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/bullpen/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=360&Itemid=39
Great news if it’s not. Looks like he’s coming around.
Somebody posted that yesterday.
baseball america just posted the top 10 dodger prospects for 2008. 1) kershaw 2) la roche 3)hu 4) elbert 5)de witt 6)withrow 7)mcdonald 8)meloan 9)d. young 10 )pedro baez. would think that josh bell, ivan de jesus and orenduff would follow, and that shows 4 of the top 11 to 13 are third basemen.
with our now major league young stars we are still in great shape
It was sarcasm for sure. Yeah I like your plan Scott/Charris (good call on Wilson)/Eric/Cam/ and others. Stop f-ing around. Offer jones a tad more than Hunter and get it done.
i thik that not only the signing of jones will increase power to the lineup, but did we not forget that the outfield had the least OF assists in the majors! put it this way jones, ethier and kemp will be a very good OF. Defense and offensively.
jungar, man you need to try and get some sleep. You’re letting it all out today aren’t you? I’m lovin’ it dude. I like how you’re straight to the point and not holding much back.
nkirby, funny that Ned didn’t mention Young! He was the hottest player at the end of the year and led on Team USA, along with LaRoche.
I do need sleep. But it ain’t gonna happen…LOL..
I totally agree with you guys about Jones. It is such a no brainer. His worst year is better than most CF best years. I can live with the low average and K’s if he goes 25/90 and plays the defense he does. And 25/90 is like his worse year. Him Ethier and Kemp would be awesome.
Sorry jungar, I didn’t catch the sarcasm. I’ve always been a bit gullible.
It looks like Kuroda will make a decision next week: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317090&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp
Why isn’t Kershaw on the 40-man roster?
Ned is sure “saying” the right things these days, he just needs to give up completely on Pierre – yeah, I know, a broken record – and keep the core. The D-backs won the division with a lot less young talent than us.
Kershaw isn’t on the 40-man roster because he isn’t a 3-year professional: http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html
the comment i read earlier was that ned was going to wait for the agents of jones and rowand to contact him. i dont understand what is up with this attitude. how are you going to change your focus on another problem when you have not even addressed on the first.while pitching wins championships, we need runs for our pitchers first!!!
I like what I’m hearing out of the meetings so far. Andruw is expecting too much and if we offered 2 years even at 40 million, I don’t think they’d be ready to accept that. Right now we should focus on Kuroda, get him on board, and see what Andruw and Boras plan on doing. If they lower their demands, then sign em’. If not, well then we’ll enter the season with Kemp, Ethier, and Pierre. I want Pierre gone as much, if not more, than anyone else here. However, I don’t want to make a mistake in order to get rid of a different mistake. No one will offer Andruw Jones what he wants right now, so wait a few weeks or months, and get him at our price later.
Our top 3 pitchers are as good as any other NL team. Add Jones in there and the whole staff will look better due to his great defense.
Here’s a classic from last year’s free agent discussions. Granted, it’s only one person’s opinion:
“There’s been some talk in the Chicago papers that the Cubs may offer Juan Pierre three years and $24MM this offseason. Let’s take a closer look at the 29 year-old speedster.
The Cubs acquired Pierre to play center field on December 7th of last year. He had an awful start to his Cubs career, hitting just .240/.276/.309 over the season’s first two months. Something clicked in June, however, as he’s hit .316/.363/.433 since. Still, Pierre is miscast as a leadoff hitter and perhaps even as a regular.
The point of a leadoff hitter is to get on base, right? Pierre ranks a woeful 24th in OBP among leadoff hitters with 300 plate appearances this season. Clunky guys like Kevin Youkilis and Jason Kendall are running circles around Pierre’s OBP. Speaking of running, that’s often the defense for letting a guy like Pierre lead off. But when you’re getting nailed on 27% of your steal attempts, you’re not adding much value there.
It’s also well-known that Pierre doesn’t make up for his offensive shortcomings with his center field defense. His arm is awful and his range is unimpressive. In short, Pierre would make a decent fourth outfielder. To pay him anywhere near $8MM annually is a mistake only the Cubs could make. Baseball Prospectus indicates that he should be paid about half that.
Cubs fans can only hope another, dumber team swoops in with an offer Pierre can’t refuse.”
OUCH!
Jones would definitely help us out. However, the price for him right now is too steep. How often does Scott Boras back down from his initial asking price? And if he does back down, how long does it take for him to do so? Boras will wait out until the last moment to get what he wants… just ask Barry Zito. We can make an offer, but if we sign him , it should be on our terms. 2-3 maybe even 4 years. We should not give him a Hunter type deal.
great post dodgerdude and wow oh wow Kahliforni…amazing.
didnt the dodger have the same attitude last year; wait till the free agent market pans out. then they turned around and paid pierre what they did and i almost forgot luis gonzalez. why wait when we can go in there and negotiate now. why wait until we are in the same boat as last year.
because were not in the same boat as last year. Loney and Kemp have proven that they belong. LaRoache is ready, just need his shot. Ethier bounced back after a slow ending to 06. Abreu proved he can play up here. Bills showed he will be a top starter for years to come..
anyways, a good read…
http://sportsblogs.latimes.com/sports_baseball_dodgers/2007/12/whether-youre-t.html
I agree that there is no need to wait. Jones is a better player than Hunter so his contract should be better. Call Boras up and say we’ll give you 6 years and $115 million, take it or leave it. No team will top that. Get the jersey made, set up the conference and get your winter gear out for October.
Furcal
Either
Loney
Jones
Kemp
Martin
Kent
LaRoche
Penny
Lowe
Bills
The good bullpen.
That’s playoff baseball baby. Get excited.
You are wrong germandurazo.
Ned made his biggest mistake on November 20th of 2006. He did not take the wait and see approach last year, instead he overacted to JD Drew opting out. He made a deal simply for the sake of making a deal. Let’s not make that same mistake now.
http://www.rotowire.com/roto_to_gnews.htm?ID=206134&sport=mlb
Although, Jones is a far far far better player than Pierre. No Doubt. The one thing I am very worried about is Ned signs Jones then trades Kemp or Ethier to accommodate Pierre. That would be very expensive and wasteful, and would not solve a **** thing.
For the record I’d love to have Ben Sheets. Injury concerns and all.
I’d be stoked to have Sheets. That would be a costly move too though, in terms of prospects.
And yeah I am afraid of what you said as well. And then next year after watching Pierre in Lf it will be determined we have to upgrade lf. Just cut your losses now, it may even save money in the end.
what mistake if they have not lost anyone. are you willing to see pierre again in CF.the drew opt caught everyone off guard; it didnt take away the fact that we need a big bat last year as well as this year.
jungar,
laroche is always having trouble with his back and schoulder.nomar is not the ballplayer he used to be anymore
jungar, so would Tommy, his Oympics ace that secured the 2000 gold medal.
Pierre was the mistake.
I see Kuroda wants 4 years. If it isn’t 2 years plus 2 option years then I say pass. I’d rather have Silva anyways. He would be a good #4 starter in the NL plus he’s a workhorse. His W-L record would be much better pitching in the NL against everybody’s #4 guy.
He’s also proven his self in America.
it is being reported that kemp/broxton for bedard is close….no Ned do not do it. This is on ESPN.com
Silva throws strikes and gets alo0t of ground balls…may be a nice fit in LA….Get rid of Loiaza now….
I can’t find that rumor shawn, you have a link?
2:56 p.m. ET, from Amy Nelson
• The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O’s are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. “They want Bedard bad,” said the source. it is on espn.com blog it may be an insider available only will double check.
found it
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=winter_meetings
yea, i don’t like it either, but Bedard can pitch.
I agree but we are giving up a top prospect who has proven major league ready and a top short man…who is 22/23 years old…Saito will not last forever….
he has problems staying healthy too
agreed, I’d definitely hold off on that deal if I were Ned.
Please Ned. I’m sorry for all the bad things I said about you. If you do have to part ways with my boy please don’t send Kemp with him. I’m begging you.
man thats a heavy price for Bedard but can you imagine a Bedard, Penny, Billingsley, Lowe rotation come playoff time. Wow.
Ned don’t listen to these people. Trade Kemp. It not every day you get an Ace pitcher. Broxton though. No thanks.
Yea, Bedard has some really nice numbers for having pitched in the AL East. 3.16 era. 221 Ks in 182 inn. 141 Hits, 57 BB.
I don’t know that he’s an ace, but he’s close.
Ned please add in Meloan and maybe Abreu or Hu for Bedard. The Orioles will need one of those guys to play SS after Tejada is gone. I don’t want JB wearing anything but Dodger Blue.
Andruw Jones has always — even when ARod was available — been the best free agent option for the Dodgers. If we sign him and make no other moves on the offensive side (except maybe add a few role player types and of course dumping Pierre, or at least making it clear to Torre that the front office has no issue with Pierre being a $9 million role player), we have had a great winter.
I do agree that if signing Jones leads to trading Kemp (and to a signigicantly lesser degree Ethier), then the whole affair will have been a waste, in fact a step backwards. But I’m thinking (wishfully?) that Ned has no intention to move our other good outfielders upon acquisition of Andruw.
I agree with those here who are not opposed to paying for Andruw or even overpaying by a couple million a year, especially if we can sign him to a three-four year contract.
Most similar to Andruw at age 30 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jonesan01.shtml):
Frank Robinson (857) *
Eddie Mathews (850) *
Johnny Bench (849) *
Ron Santo (840)
Al Kaline (836) *
Sammy Sosa (832)
Ken Griffey (832)
Ruben Sierra (829)
Juan Gonzalez (816)
Duke Snider (815)
There are some duds in there, but as a group I would gladly take them. Unlike Sosa and probably Juan Gonzalez, there is no reason to believe Andruw is/was juiced (other than the sad fact that almost everybody is at least slightly suspect).
I especially love that his #1 comparable is Frank Robinson, who by the way had “off-years” at ages 27 and 32 similar to Andruw’s “off-year” of 2007.
Man….tempting…
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Bedard
Schmidt?
Not bad for a NL team playing 1/2 its games at Dodger Stadium.
I’m sorry Cameron, but of the 2 guys mentioned, Brox is the most replaceable.
It’s probably a fair deal but no way i’d do it. Just thought to say it before it happens.
its a fair deal for sure IF we get an extension. but we don’t have alot of OF prospects and we DO have kershaw. it almost makes more sense to give up kershaw than kemp. But yeah I don’t want to do either.
great post martinloneykemp. I agree with pretty much all of it especially limiting the years of the contract (not so much the money). Im still mixed about the Bedard rumor, but I’m probably leaning towards not doing it because Kemp will be awesome.
Will you guys stop overhyping Kemp. Geez you act like were trading the second coming of Arod or some thing.
what do u have against kemp? He’s a very good 22 year old OF with tons of power and potential. He showed some of that last year batting .342 with 27 extra base hits in 292 ABs.
Wrink are you related to me?
you know it is not easy to be a GM…we want everything in return but do not want to give up anything. Imagine how your stomach feels when you are making the real decision…you are married to that decision until the player you give up retires…Wow…anyway who do we get to replace Broxton…The 8th inning is huge and not just anyone can do it…look at the Red Sox with Okajima…if they do not have him last year they would have had issues. This guy is so valuable to protect your closer. As far as kemp being the 2nd coming of Arod…he is electric and could be special if he continues to develop..you just never know…but from what we have seen he has made our imaginations envision greatness…do not do it. Maybe he is the next great one. I would hate to find out in another uniform. Bedard has not been healthy for a complete year.
Dodgerblue. For one he’s a cancer in the locker room. Number 2,the guy stinks in the outfield. Number 3 he has zero discpline at the plate. He strikes out more then Adam Dun does. Number 4 the guy can’t run the bases. Number 5 this is chance to have the best pitching staff in the NL. Lastly I rather win championships then wait for Kemp to show he worth all the hype you guys give him.
I agree with wrink. we have to be willing to give up some of our young guys to get proven players. Everyone here seems to be fine with the roster as is. This roster is full of potential, but thats it. We need balance, so Im all for trading a few young guys for a proven star
I’d be willing to bet alot that Kemp will produce better overall numbers than Tori Hunter. So thats 90 million we will have to spend in 09 to replace his production. I am willing to bet that Broxton can be a solid closer. And u saw Cordero get 46 million for 4 years.
getting Bedar is short sigthed, but what else is new in the McCourt era.
Kemp had some issues in the locker room, but this is where leadership (torre) and hopefully a player will step up and lead…That is why I really wanted Hunter but that is a non issue. Alot of these kids come up and think the world owes them god knows when I was his age I knew everything…What he needs is a mentor to learn from. I do not hope this is too much ask of these muti millionaires and coaches.
Is Jeff Kent not a cancer?
Does Pierre stink in the OF?
Does Nomar have plate discipline?
Can Kent run the bases?
the best pitching staff in the NL includes a lights out bullpen. Who replaces Broxton in that role? Hernandez? Saenz? Proctor?
Thanks Rick. Some of these Dodgers fans make me shake my head. It almost like they don’t want to win and prefer Moneyball to championships. To get players you have to give players. That how it works and Kemp not are only young outfielder with potiental. Has anyone forgot about Young.
hernandez won’t be on the team next year, and if he is, we should all boycott. We still have Meloan/Proctor to setup. Id really like to find out whether Brox can close already. I know we have Saito but he’s old won’t be effective much longer. A young cheap closer will net us a ton on the open market.
wrink… where to start… Cancer in the locker room? how do you know? are you there? or are you going off of 4th or 5th hand knowledge. He was involved in an altercation with Jeff Kent, who has been involved in his share of altercations throughout the years (Bonds, Bradley, the motorcycle thing). Maybe Kent is the problem? I don’t know?
#2 He stinks in the outfield? Can’t be worse than Pierre. The guy is 22, give him some time to get better yea? He has the arm and speed to be good, but he needs to work on his reads.
#3 Zero plate discipline? Thats just not true. While it’s not good plate discipline, it’s not that bad. You don’t hit .342 wihtout some sense of the strike zone. He’s improved his BB rate and has improved his contact rates when he does swing.
#4 run the baes well? well he’s fast, but he could use some work here. Again, he’s 22.
#5 While getting Bedard would give us a sick staff, one player does not guarantee a championship. It would also open up a whole in the OF. With that said, it would be a nice trade, but I’m leaning towards not doing it. The main point of this post was to show Kemp’s worth.
Look I get it. I am not oppossed to trading. In fact getting Bedar for Kemp and then signing Jones would work for me for 2008..But all I am saying is that you will need to pay Jones 100 million and Bedar to an extension around 125 million. And then a closer 50 million when Saito retires. Then all of a sudden its time for Loney, Martin and others to get raises and they will walk away cause we cant afford them.
So wrink, say we do that trade. How would you fill the OF spot left by Kemp? Jones? Pay $100+ million for 6 years? Thats great, but what about the hole in your Bullpen? Throw more money at that, or trade away some more cheap good talent?
exactly jungar. You guys have to think long term.
Looks like Meloan will be in our bullpen next season. Meloan is just like Broxton.
The Dodgers should stop worrying about the money. They have alot of money to spend, but they dont want to, or their afraid to overpay someeone. They have to understand the market is not the same as it was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. PLayers are asking for more money, so you have to be willing to pay up, especially when you have the money to spend.
I say stop thinking long term and start thinking world series this year. Its all about winning.
by the way wrink, where did u see that Kemp strikes out more than Adam Dunn? Dunn last year 165 ks in 522 ABs. Kemp 66 in 292. IF you double Kemp’s ABs and K’s its 124 Ks in 584 ABs.
i say that logic is faulty in so many different ways. You think the Red Sox only think about this year? hells no! I don’t just want one WS, i want multiple.
Lets win one, before we start thinking about a dynasty.
.263/.342/.497/.839 Jones career
.312/.344/.496/.839 Kemp career
is the one percentage point on slug and better (much better) defense worth 100 million?
Let me say it again Kemp is not Arod. Stop acting like he is people. We have another young outfield in the minors known as Young. Losing Kemp is not going to cripple the Dodgers! Also to DodgerDude,long term! The same long term that left us without a playoff win or World Series since the late 80’s. That long term?
wow I leave for lunch and this news breaks. I’m actually torn here, I was endorsing a Kemp for Bedard straight up trade a few weeks ago, but I really like Broxton. That rumor is also saying that these 2 players were the starting pieces. Its seems a little too steep to me. If I were the Dodgers, I would counter with Ethier/Broxton/Hu, if for any reason that package could go, I would feel much more comfortable. If they insist on Kemp, I’d say Kemp/Meloan/Pierre (with us taking half the salary). I don’t want to see both those young studs moved for a SP.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t do it, Ned!!
Yes, I do think Kemp is the second coming of somebody. Not ARod who truly is a cancer — see his championship ring finger. Kemp is more like the second coming of Dave Winfield.
wrink wrote, “For one he’s a cancer in the locker room. Number 2,the guy stinks in the outfield. Number 3 he has zero discpline at the plate. He strikes out more then Adam Dun does. Number 4 the guy can’t run the bases.”
1) There is no evidence other than some whiny comments by bitter old men Kent and Luis Gonzalez that Kemp is a problem in the locker room.
2)Stinks in the outfield? No evidence of this whatsoever. Very fast. Good range. Very strong arm. Problem?
3) Strikes out too often, more than Adam Dunn? While Kemp did strike out at an incredible pace in his first MLB stint in ’06, he improved considerably in ’07.
Compare Kemp to Adam Dunn in 2007:
Kemp: 292 AB, 66 Strikeouts (.22 SO/AB)
Dunn: 522 AB, 165 Strikeouts(.31 SO/AB)
Also not that Kemp’s SO/AB continued to decline EACH AND EVERY month of his 2007 season so that by September his SO/AB percentage was down to .20)
4) Can’t run the bases? Why because he ran through a couple of stop signs put up by the guy who caused the mess in Game 1 of the 2006 NLDS? I can live with a youngster who’s a little overagressive.
Also, ten stolen bases in half a season is pretty decent baserunning. Expect it to get better.
Oh, please don’t tell me that by the time I post this Matt Kemp is no longer a Dodger.
PLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEE!!
How could you have a dynasty without thinking about the long term plan though?
Wrink, no not that long term. Not the long term that trades away Pedro and Paul Konerko. Not the long term that signs Darren Dreifort, Kevin Brown, trades away Piazza. no not that one that made short sighted moves like the ones i listed. That is not long term.
jungar I’ll have to disagree with you on that one too. Jones is a proven stud. Kemp only has potential. He may end up having a higher AVG and OBP than Jones but the RBI and HR totals will not exceed Jones. (Not counting this year.) And Kemp will never win 10 straight Gold Gloves. If Kemp didn’t have attitude problems and he didn’t act like the game of baseball owes him something then he’d be alright. I’m still standing pat that I think he’ll be the next Milton Bradley.
Perhaps it a short sighted trade but I dont think its an UNFAIR trade.
wrink,
Wow! I am hesitant to criticize other posters, but you really don’t seem to have a clue.
I like Delwyn Young too, but implying that he is a suitable replacement for Kemp is really an amazing assertion.
Young does not have Kemp’s speed, power, or fielding ability. His upside is much lower than Kemp’s, and he is almost completely unproven at the major league level.
I hope that Delwyn Young can prove to be a very good major league hitter who we can hide in left field.
But any comparison of him to Kemp at this stage in their careers can only be wildly uninformed.
Erik Bedard has his issues too. Health issues, control issues at times.
lETS NOT TALK ABOUT STIKEOUTS…AROD STRIKES OUT 100+ TIMES…ANDRUW STRIKES ALOT…I STILL WANT ANDRUW FOR CENTER AND HIS DEFENSE ALONE WINS US 5-7 GAMES…MAKES THE PITCHING BETTER…HIS BAT WILL HELP THE LINEUP AND KEMP, LONEY, MARTIN CONTINUE TO DEVELOP AND TORRE LEADING THE LOCKERROOM..REMEMBER IF NOT FOR A HORRIFIC LAST MONTH THEY WERE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NL WEST…LACK OF LEADERSHIP FROM GRIDDLE AND THE OLD GEEZERS LEAD US ON A PATH OF DESTRUCTION. THIS CREW CAN AND WILL BE SPECIAL…I AGREE WITH MLK AND DODGERBOY WE HAVE GONE WITH QUICK FIXES AND IT HAS NOT WORKED…WE FINALLY HAVE DEVELOPED A SEQUEL TO RUSSEL, GARVEY, CEY AND LOPES…IMAGINE IF THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP.
Martin,no offense but you and others overhype Kemp so much he will never live up to the hype you people are giving him. He’s another Raul or edwin Jackson.
Wrink are you sure you aren’t related to me?
Cam my post had facts, not opinions. Those are the numbers do with them what you will. I didn’t see the Braves trying to trade Jones after his first two years or the Yanks trade Bernie after his first few years or Sizemore or the list goes on. Kemp is the best dodger i have seen come up in years…apparently .342 at age 22 is not good enough for most people. its all about right now and think its wrong.
but i did say
a. kemp is not even comparable on defense and
b. that jones is the best CF I have ever seen play.
How can you be so sure he won’t pan out wrink? It doesn’t seem logical for you to think so if you are a dodger fan. Don’t you want him to pan out? Just as you say that we don’t know what he will amount to, the same goes for you. You can’t say for certain that he will fail.
Dodgerdude, I’ve been a fan for many years and one think I come to expect from my fellow fans is that they always overhype are minor leaguers. Every few years we get a good minor leaguer and then everyone calls him the next great thing.
On Bedard:
Erik Bedard is a very good pitcher, but nothing to get overly excited about.
He has only appeared on any leader board in the last two years. He’s not particularly young — 29 for the 2008 season. He’s never pitched more than 200 innings and only twice gone over 142. And he has a history of fading down the stretch a la Brad Penny.
Would I love to have Erik Bedard? (I ask in Jim Tracy fashion) Sure. Would I give up Matt Kemp and Jonathon Broxton for him? Not even close.
Reasonable counteroffer: Broxton, Hu, and Scott Elbert
It’s easy to say that a prospect won’t pan out because the reality is that most don’t, but how can you root against one of your own especially when he’s shown so much promise? I go to school up in the Bay area, giants territory, and I listen to their sports radio station pretty much everyday. I tell you, they would give kill for position player prospects like the ones we have.
What’s wrong with getting excited about your minor leaguers? Isn’t that the dodger way? Branch Rickey invented the farm system!
I’d say even your counter offer might be a little steep martinloneykemp, but I think i’d do that.
wrink i think your opinion is fair in general, but wrong on Kemp. You are right about overhyping and hordeing prospects etc..But **** man for all Kemp has to “learn” about playing baseball he sure looked good learning it last year. He has power speed combo that reminds me of Andre Dawson.
The kid can play. I can’t speak to clubhouse issues since I am not there.
Tony Jackson just shot down the Bedard rumor.
wrink,
I agree that as Dodger fans we sometimes are overly hopeful about our prospects.
Six months ago, I might have agreed with your cautious attitude about Kemp.
However, Kemp is no longer a mere prospect. It’s no longer a question of IF Kemp will be a good major leaguer, but if he will be a great one.
I would agree that Kemp could end up being another Raul Mondesi. I gotta tell you that although I hope for much more, having a Raul Mondesi for between the ages of 24 and 31 is not a bad thing.
See Raul’s career stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mondera01.shtml
I’d rather have Mondesi-type production than whatever we are likely to get from Erik Bedard.
I guess some people think Raul copped an attitude toward the end of his time with the Dodgers. I copped the exact same attitude as Raul about Fox ownership so I’ve got no problem with that.
So far, this has got to be the dullest winter meetings I have ever covered. The biggest news of the first two days was that Tampa Bay traded the troubled Elijah Dukes to Washington (yawn). The rumor of the hour, at least where your hometown Dodgers are concerned, seems to be that they are coveting Baltimore’s Erik Bedard and that there is a possible deal in the works that would send Jonathan Broxton and Matt Kemp to the Orioles. I find that hard to believe, mostly that the Dodgers would part with Broxton at a time when they are about to enter the season with a 38-year-old closer, but I’m running it down anyway. Check with ya later.
tahst tony jackson.
The Mariners have apparently offered Kuroda a 4/$45 million contract. If thats true, they can have him. But where does that leave us? In a bad position going into ’08. I hate to say it but if the Oriles are requiring Kemp in a deal for Bedard, doesn’t it make more sense to go after Johan instead? You can’t tell me that we can’t beat the Red Sox and Yankees offers. I say Kershaw/Ethier/Broxton is a safer move for us and I think the Twinkies might bite on that one. If they did, it would give us the best pitcher in baseball and we’d still have Kemp. If the Twins insist on a ML ready starter, you could replace Broxton with McDonald and I think we trump both the Yanks and the Sox offers.
max,
Thanks.
Here’s Tony’s comment: http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/
I hope he’s right.
Also let’s not forget that our own Gm had him (Kemp) as our starting RF over Loney and Either to start the year last year and then he got hurt.
I don’t think he will be traded either.
Have you guys (and gals?) noticed that the Devil Rays (oops! Rays) are unloading their extremely talented headcases? First they traded Delmon Young to the Twins, and then unloaded Elijah Dukes on the Nationals.
I don’t know what to make of this development, but it seems like it deserves more attention than it has gotten
max,
You keep being two steps ahead of me.
Another rumor swirling around is that the Brewers are interested in LaRoche. The Brewers also need a CF. Why not offer up LaRoche and Pierre (again eat some $$$ if we have to) for Sheets. I know Sheets is an injury risk but that gives us some better SP depth going into ’08.
well i try martin, I’m done with school until january. I’ve got nothing to do. I am just glad the winter meetings are this week. I may be going to Iowa for a couple of weeks in the middle of december. Hopefully the stuff that goes down with the Dodgers goes down before then so i can complain about it.
Charris how about, LaRoche, Pierre and Meloan for Bill Hall?
I would get a chubby if the Brewers would take that deal…eat all the money…i will throw in some take Pierre.
Bill Hall… ehhh pass.
max, I’d be okay with that move assuming Hall fills in the void in center but I’d rather press them for some pitching. Is Linebrink still under contract, if so why not Hall and Linebrink for those 2?
Linebrink went to the White Sox.
I WAS GETTING EXCITED ABOUT SHEETS…NOT HALL
Sheets would be quite a prize IMO, I wonder what the asking price would be?
oh Sheets would be nice. Very nice.
Yeah Sheets would be a nice upgrade but how good would he look on the DL because he’ll be there at least twice a year.
im not big on Hall either but there were rumors they Dodgers had talked about Hall with he Brew Crew.
IF WE WERE GETTING RID OF PIERRE I WOULDNT CARE IF HE SPENT ALL YEAR ON THE DL. WELL MAYBE BUT PUT A PACKAGE AND GET HIM. HE SHOULD NOT COST US AS MUCH AS THE OTHERS.
James Carville and Ari Fleischer in the same room? wow that must have been entertaining.
max whats your take on that Bedard rumor, didn’t you just get a Kemp jersey?
Mr. Scully is high on the O-Dog (Orlando Hudson). Kent should retire and trade for Hudson?
hey SHAWN, relax with the CAPS eh? It doesn’t make you sound smarter or more important, just loud. lol
why trade for o-dog when we got 3-4 possible 2b replacements already? Hu, Abreu, Blake DeWitt, Ivan DeJesus, **** even Andy LaRoche could play 2b.
I was thinking about it Charris. but i’m saving the money for a possible trip to Iowa.
This Bedard thing has me very torn. I don’t mind Broxton being traded because I think we’ve got arms in our system that can replace him easily.
Trading Kemp is a different. For a team thats so starved for power trading away your biggest power threat doesn’t make sense unless there is a plan in order to make up for that lose.
I think it all depends on the Jones situation. If the Dodgers step up their efforts to get Jones and they eventually sign him I think Kemp is gone.
sorry did not even realize it…trust me i was not trying to impress anyone dodgerdude or to be important. If reading an email in caps is offensive…well I will try to be more thoughtful.
Charris i have to disagree that we can easily replace broxton…the 8th inning is not for everyone and the guys are very underrated. Do not underestimate the importance of broxton.
I agree with most of the comments. We pay over $4.00 dollars for one hotdog,the parking fee was raised, beer is like $10 bucks for one cup.You can buy a 12 pack of soda for what one soda cost at the park, and we payit. So please pay us back by sighning some quality
players.
Pull off the deal already for Andrew Jones. We dont want you to trade away all the kids, but lets find another third baseman somewhere if you cant make the deal for Cabrera.
Ned, enough already make some deals. The fans want it.. We are tired of a mediocre team get us some players.
no no shawn, no one is offended. i’ve just always understood it as a general blog etiquette rule i guess. really not a big deal, just slightly annoying.
Even if Jones batted 000 with 0 home runs and 0 RBIs, he would be an upgrade over Pierre. At least nobody would constantly run on him and take extra bases ,which lead to runs. And with those stats he’d still have as many homers as Pierre. Also the Dodgers make a lot of money and can easily afford him. Then you’d have a great outfield with Kemp ,Jones and Eithier. It seems to me it’s all about not spending money. If they can give Pierre 45 mil, they can pay Jones, after all even in a down year he’s two or three times the player that JP is.
wow. The Tigers are getting Miggy and Willis. WOW.
Gigantic Mega-Trade Just Went Down according to MLB.com, Tigers acquire Cabrera and Willis:
MLB.com is reporting that the Tigers are set to acquire Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins for Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and four more prospects.
Rick Porcello is going to be awfully lonely as the only member of Detroit’s farm system next year. If true, this puts the Tigers right back among the elite in the AL and further swings the balance of power between the leagues. Detroit will have to hope to find a taker for Brandon Inge, who is owed $18 million over the next three years.
5:55 p.m., from Buster Olney • Both the Diamondbacks and Dodgers have talked to the A’s about Dan Haren. Oakland wantd young pitching in return for the ace.
this is getting crazy. just read a report that the white sox were close on Cabrera… now the tigers?
I never really understood the big deal. I just started writing and did not even pay attention…lets talk baseball…love ya dodgerdude.
That is agressive by the tigers but they get 2 young players with proven experience. Hats off to them. Willis is the wild card which pitcher is he the one of 2 years ago or the pitcher that got bombed last year. Cabrera is a HOF caliber player and only 24, a young Manny.
I agree that Kemp, Jones, Ethier would be an upgrade, but don’t overlook the value of a No. 2 hitter. If JP wer in LF, the arm would be less of an issue. He has a career .330 OBP, very few SO, and leads both leagues in bunts with 20. He had 196 hits. I remember Bill Russell hitting in the 2 hole and he had a similar approach. The idea is to get the leadoff on base and move him to 2nd. Let the middle of the order get him home. JP is OK at that. I wish he had a higher OBP, but the low SO total and the low DP are mid-professional grade. He is competent. He had the second most SB with 64 and an .81 success rate. I want better, too, but let’s not exagerate. Especially since we want to get something for him.
shephard…Pierre *****.
just to set the record straight that censored word starts with an S and ends with an UCKS!!!!!!!!
Very intelligent response.
well you should have been hear eariler in the season when i made my case against Pierre. It would be a lost cause now because anyone that supports him wouldn’t understand why he s ucks.
This Bedard trade rumor is absurd, and after a day where I finally thought Ned was getting it, to see this come up is disturbing. I am assuming (like DodgerThoughts suggests) that it is bunk. Bedard is a good pitcher who just had a tremendous year. He’s not Santana (or even a year away from being Santana). And what’s the logic in the Orioles dealing him. The Twins have always been a ridiculously low-payroll team and considered small market. The Orioles market in Baltimore/Washington is big enough that it’s one of only four in the country that MLB believes can sustain two major league teams. Why are the O’s shopping him so hard?
Then, we would be giving up the best set-up man in the league bar none (who also figures to be a top closer within the next 2 years) and the team’s best hitter in 2004 (of any player with more than 300 plate appearances). Why??? For a team whose biggest problem is offense, why trade the best hitter?
I don’t understand Wrink’s thinking here–he might be Derek Lowe in disguise. The idea of “giving up something to get something” is the philosophy that has earned us everything we have won in the last 19 years–one playoff game. It’s a tired philosophy that distracts from the more fundamental point–if you bring up good baseball players, then play them.
I admit, I might overhype our kids slightly (though, I really do think Matt Kemp has Willie Mays-type potential). But seriously, take the Jacksonville 5+1 (Martin, Loney, Broxton, Billingsley, LaRoche and Kemp). Aside from LaRoche, they have all performed exceptionally well at the major league level, so far. And the consensus with LaRoche is that he has not gotten his chance yet and that he has been considered a better prospect than all of them. Is there any team that has six young players with less than 2 years of experience who have all played together for several years, gone through a championship drive at AA, and then been in the thick of pennant races in two consecutive major league seasons? Add in some other of the young guys–Hu, Kershaw, McDonald, Meloan, Ethier, etc.–and it’s absolutely frightening. What exactly are the Dodgers trying to get that they don’t already have???
This Dodger core is not built for winning championships–it’s built for starting dynasties. In a good year, a team will have a class of young players that produces one superstar and one All-Star type of talent. And when you produce a Pujols, or a Santana, or a Cabrerra, and you can afford to hang on to them, you do it.
The Jacksonville 5+1 already has the best catcher in the National League (in his first full year, he was elected to start in the All-Star Game, won the Gold Glove and the Silver Slugger, so that’s that). And I love Russell Martin, but of those six, he may be the least gifted of them all. Which is not to say that he will be the “worst” player, because he’s an amazing competitor, but in terms of pure raw talent, I think he is the low man. The most gifted is clearly Kemp. But think about that–we produced a class of players where the least talented is already the best player at his position.
Think about that for a second. The least talented player in that class is already a superstar.
Yeah, I am excited about these kids, and I am very reluctant to trade them. And it’s not a whim. I say Kemp was the best hitter on the team last year–that’s just the facts–his .342 average was the highest for a Dodger with 310+ plate appearances since Mike Piazza hit .362 a decade ago. (OK–Loney had the highest OPS–this does not really hurt my point.)
Trading Kemp and Broxton for a guy who will probably be no more than our third best pitcher in 3 years (he is only slightly better right now than Billingsley who is 5 years yonger and progressing much faster, and Clayton Kershaw is on-track to be just as good or better than that) simply makes no sense.
If teams want prospects for #2 or even low#1 starters, let’s talk prospects–as defined by Baseball America, guys who would qualify for the Rookie of the Year award–not two key players on a building dynasty.
From Tony Jackson:
Dodgers, Mariners at top of Kuroda’s list
The reported four-year, $44 million offer by the Mariners apparently didn’t happen, or at least it hadn’t happened as of this morning. All indications are Seattle’s three-year offer between $30 million and $33 million is the top offer so far, with the Dodgers having possibly matched it or possibly exceeded it slightly. But while the D-backs, Cubs, Mets and Royals are believed to have interest, a source said this morning that the Mariners and Dodgers are at the head of the class. This looks like a two-horse race, but it also is a race that is likely to last a while, with Kuroda letting his price go as high as it possibly can before he settles on one team or the other.
interesting move by the Tigers for sure. Their lineup is pretty deadly with a magglio/miggy 1-2 punch, and a magglio/miggy/sheffield hitting 3rd-5th, and granderson hitting lead-off..
anyone know how highly regarded cameron maybin is? I remember watching him play against the yankee’s on FOX one saturday broadcast, and they were talking about how he was the Tigers top prospect?
leek…i was watching the baseball tonight special last night and they were talking about Bedard, and one of the reasons why he might be on the trading block is because Bedard does not want to be an oriole long-term, and probably won’t sign a long-term contract anyways if offered one.
Maybin is the Tigers verison of Matt Kemp.
I say screw Kuroda if he wants more money. He’s only a 4th or 5th pitcher. I say see if you can make a trade with the A’s for Blanton or Haren instead.
leeffink..great post…I have to agree, lets ride this out and get Andruw for the bat if we can get him for 3-4 years it will be the bat we are looking for…I feel last year was an aberration he is still young and I know they said he had a sore elbow that caused him problems when he swung.
amazing what a guy like Kuroda can get coming over from Japan. He’ll in essence be making more money per year than a Brad Penny or Derek Lowe, both world-series champions.
The market is pretty good if you’re a japanese import nowadays. Anyone remember what Ichiro got when he first signed with the Mariners? They truly got a steal that year, with Ichiro on his way to winning rookie of the year and AL MVP the same year. I guess people are hoping for the same with Kuroda making the jump to America.
that top 50 minor league prospect list that came out a week ago placed maybin at #3 in all of minor baseball.
I wouldn’t mind Andruw Jones roaming CF if the price is right, and the number of years is right as well. Maybe he can get a deal that JD originally got? Maybe a 3-5 year deal, with an opt-out clause after the 3rd year so he can opt out and go get the big bucks if he wants?
Andruw Jones in CF with KEMP in right and Ethier in left would be nice.
Hopefully we can trade Pierre for someone that can contribute on our team. If not, he can be relegated to the bench as a pinch runner, and that would be how he would be most effective for us. I’m not paying his salary, so i don’t really care if he’s a $8 million dollar pinch runner. Unfortunately, I don’t make the calls, and like pierreeastmeetswest said a couple days ago, I can only sit back and watch what unfolds.
I just saw this post from earlier today…
Get Pierre out of center field.
And please, as much as I love Martin… force him to take a rest more often than last year. He was a mess at the end of the season.
Posted by: dodgerdude@gmail.com | December 4, 2007 08:32 AM
who’s stealing my name!?!? ha
I say screw Kuroda if he wants more money. He’s only a 4th or 5th pitcher. I say see if you can make a trade with the A’s for Blanton or Haren instead.
Posted by: wrink18@msn.com | December 4, 2007 03:32 PM
We’re u saying earlier that the dodgers don’t spend enough money??? or is your mission just to empty the farm system?
dodgerdude..thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about that top 50 list Josh posted a couple days ago…
Interesting move by the Tigers giving up a top prospect like that and a very good young lefty pitcher in Andrew Miller. Looks like the Tigers are trying to put it all on the line and try to win the world series sooner rather than later. Good move by them.
As far as the Dodgers are concerned, you’ve got to believe we could have gotten the same two players from Florida for Kemp/Kershaw, and other mid-level prospects as well. I think this tells us a little something about Ned’s mindset coming into the GM meetings by not offering our top prospects for the miggy/d-train. One can only hope he has a plan, either through smaller trades without including our top young players/prospects, signing someone to a free agent deal that “makes sense” for our club, or standing pat..
we shall see..
Weren’t*
lee your posts are the best!!
Enough Money on the right players DodgerDude. Kuroda is not worth that kind of money. And no I’m not for trading ever minor leaguer. When did Kemp become every minor leaguer?
i was just being a sarcastic jerk. But I actually do agree with you, we shouldn’t go crazy trying to sign Kuroda, but if it’s reasonable I definitely think he’d help us. He should be our focus right now, as long as we don’t have to add an extra year.
I dont understand how some of you think that this roster is good enough to compete. Everyone here and Ned is unwilling to trade our young guys. If you look at the roster, its filled with great potential, but the problem is there are only 3 players who have proven themselves. (Kent Furcal and Martin) Now with this lineup it puts pressure on guys like Loney Kemp Ethier and Laroche to perform at a high level. Has anyone ever thought what happens if these players dont pan out? Well there goes our season if that happens. Thats too much pressure to put on those guys. Its good to have a couple young guys with great potential and bat them either 7th or 8th and see what they can do, but we have 4 guys and we should trade some of them and get proven players. Thats what it takes to win. Do you think the Red Sox regret trading Hanley Ramirez for Beckett? I dont. Even though Ramirez is a great player, it was Beckett that helped them win the World Series. Until Ned realizes that you cant rely on a bunch of young guys, the Dodgers will not be champions.
I dont understand how some of you think that this roster is good enough to compete.
—
1. The D-backs and Colorado are 2 reasons. Our own team was the third reason. Your proven guy Kent for example needed to be given days off while we were battling for our playoff lives. Thats what happens when you have 39 year old clean up hitter.
2. Did you wonder what happens when others don’t pan out? (schmidt, Pierre, wolf, Nomar, Gonzo) yep, there goes the season. Age does not matter. Talent does. As evidence of last year. 124 million bucks we spent last offseason to uprade the roster and we landed in 4th place.
3. If the dodgers were one or two players away from winning a WS then you make a trade like Hanley for Beckett. But they had Manny and Ortiz both going .330 40 120 in the middle of their order. We don’t. We will if you just remain patient.
4. How did Martin prove himself? Before 06 did you say, we can’t have a rookie catcher what if he does not pan out?
5. Go look at the Yankees WS teams of the 90s and look at them now. They were mostly homegrown in the mid 90’s and would add a david justice or a knoblach to compliment their core. Once they stopped doing that they have not won diddly.
Believe it or not…I think it’s for real:
The Marlins and Tigers are on the verge of completing a blockbuster deal that will send Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a package of six players.
A source familiar with the negotiations has told MLB.com that the Tigers are parting with outfielder Cameron Maybin and lefty starter Andrew Miller and four prospects for the final two players from the Marlins’ 2003 World Series championship squad.
jungar, great post as usual.
You don’t usually build a base of a championship team by importing guys from outside, you grow your players. Then when you’re close, you sign and trade for guys to gun for the WS.
Agreed jungar….great post.
Ok it seems like you guys are settling. Its been 19 years since our last playoff series win. I think we’ve been patient enough. Its time to win now.
What a difference the news of O’MALLEY brought to Brooklyn & Los Angeles. Pete Hamil of the Daily News( N.Y.) headed his article NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER FORGET saying that today most of the fans that rooted for the Dodgers in Brooklyn are either dead of living in Florida or Arizona. He said he could hear them cursing at this dreadful news. The EDITORIAL read: HONORS FOR A TRAITOR. and likened him to the boogey man. It said that to this day, mothers warn children if they don’t behave, the O’Malley will get them. It claims that since this same HOF has ignored Gil Hodges, it is a lesson to children that life is not fair.***Personally, I have to admit I hated him because I wasn’t smart enough to understand why he had to take the Dodgers out of Ebbets Field. By following them on radio, TV and in newspapers & magazines after they left, I feel it was my way of forgiving him. I think some people rooted more for Brooklyn then the team. Even if they didn’t realise it. I love Brooklyn, but I rooted for the team, so I still do.*****So it looks like Colletti has taken the homegrown route. Can’t blame him The Marlins wanted to much of a chunk of our ball team. It was like saying we don’t want your kids we want you wife. I think he wanted short term FAs, just to give our guys a chance to catch up. Well it’s going to be up to Joe Torre and I’d say the hardest job will be for Don Mattingley, in trying to straighten out the Jekyll & Hyde results of the line up. It’s time to save GOOD LUCK GUYS, ****especially with Pierre.
ricky ricky ricky… that was the mindset that landed us Shawn Green, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield. Traded away Pedro Martinez, Paul Konerko… and zero playoff series wins. When is the last time we truly built a team from within?
Given that Cabrera is off the market (for both the Dodgers AND Angels — rumor was the Angels were the frontrunners), Looks like LaRouche gets his chance. Looks like trades are out for this season and FA signings are what we are going to get — which means Jones and Kuroda.
Dodgerdude17 — I agree with you completely. Let’s go with the Kids philosophy. That’s how the 70s and 80s teams were built.
I say trades are out but hopefullly Ned doesn’t due something dumb like trade for Bedard. Bedard wasn’t even on the radar before the FA season began.
The one thing that will help the Dodgers hitters is sticking with a set batting order. Find ONE spot for Loney. ONE spot for Kemp. ONE spot for Martin. If they rest a day, fine. But don’t mess with the order, ad nauseum, like Grady did. I can still recite the 1977 batting order that got to the WS. I’m sure most of you can, too.
nice post jason… =)
belive me Rick I hear ya. That’s I guess why I am so passionate about staying the course now. 5-10 years ago I would have been thinking we need to make trades etc because we truly did just to stay competitive..but our farm is finally ripe. Guys truly are coming up and being good. Ethier, Kemp, Loney, Martin, Bills, Brox..they are all so young still. Others are on the way and yes I will call for some to be traded…in a few years when they are all regulars and a few of them emerge as very consistent 3-4-5 hitters then let’s make some deals…Like the Tigers can gut their team a little but they already have Maggs and Sheffield and Renteria and Granderson. Really all 4 of those guys are better right now than any of our hitters.
Grade for the Tigers: A
The Marlins, with their history of turning Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell into Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez, were not going to give Cabrera and Willis away, high-priced contracts looming or not and in Curtis Maybin they acquire one of the best young outfielders in all of baseball.
In various levels of minor league ball last year, Maybin had a .932 OPS with 14 homeruns. Even though he is just 20, he will be ready to play a full season in the MLB.
He clearly has all the tools to be a perennial five-tool All-Star.
Andrew Miller, a 6-6 left-hander, went 5-5 with a 5.63 ERA in 2007. He was the Tigers’ top pick in 2006 and was a College World Series star. He projects to be a very good middle of the rotation starter.
Mike Rabelo is a 27-year-old catcher who hit .256 in 51 games in 2007. He doesn’t project to be anything more than a journeyman catcher.
Eulogio De La Cruz has been in Detroit’s system for six seasons already and has a 3.62 ERA during that stretch. He has a nice K/BB ratio and throws in the high nineties.
Grade for Marlins: B-
Maybin is as can’t-miss as 20-year-old with limited MLB experience can be, but it is hard to imagine that a more attractive package couldn’t have been pried from the Dodgers or Angels.
the tigers may have gotten a deal
by Nate Silver
I grew up in East Lansing, Michigan, you know. I might or might not be wearing a Tigers cap as I type this. So you’ll excuse me if I have a hard time remaining objective about these things. But I can’t help but like what the Tigers’ blockbuster move for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis is going to do for that club.
Here’s the key number in this deal: Four.
Four is the number of relatively cheap arbitration-eligible seasons that the Tigers are picking up between Cabrera and Willis. Half of the league is willing to bend over backward — perhaps giving up a package analogous to what the Tigers just gave up — for one season of Johan Santana. Although Willis is not the pitcher than Santana is by a long shot, he’s an excellent buy-low guy who was mostly victimized by some poor defense and some poor luck in Miami last year, and an extremely viable #2/#3 starter. And Cabrera might well be the equal of Santana in terms of 2008 value. In terms of overall value, the Tigers are getting perhaps three times as much incoming value as the Red Sox might get for one year of Santana.
Four is also the number of high draft picks that the Tigers will get if Cabrera and Willis eventually depart for free agency. For a team that drafts as aggressively as the Tigers do — those picks could turn into four more Rick Porcellos — that’s an extremely non-trivial factor.
Finally, four is the number of American League teams that make the playoffs. This trade addresses clear areas of need for the Tigers, and could easily be worth as many as seven or eight games in the wins column. From my vantage point, the Tigers, Indians, Yankees and Red Sox are now in a four-way tie for the Best Team in Baseball heading into 2008; it’s going to be fascinating to see which of the those teams is the odd man out.
I’m just about finishing up the hitter PECOTA’s, so a quick note on Maybin: the system likes him, but does not love him, regarding him to be well behind the Jay Bruce / Evan Longoria class of prospects. In particular, it has him getting up to an EqBA/EqOBP/EqSLG of .267/.357/.460 (.284 EqA) by the time he hits age 25, with roughly league-average defense in center field. It also has him at .248/.330/.428 for 2008 (.261 EqA), which means that he’s probably ready to step into a major league lineup right now for a second-division club like the Marlins. That’s potentially quite valuable, but not necessarily All-Star caliber, as PECOTA has quite a few concerns about Maybin’s strikeout rate.
oops, above thats from realGM.com not from me..
Dodgers want to stay the course with the younger players. That is a nice thought but they sure did miss the boat on Cabrera. How old does Coletti think Cabrera is? Hey Ned!!!
Try 24 years old. How can you pass on such a proven hitter who isn’t even in his prime and if his career holds up, will surely go to the HOF.
I’m dumb-founded! IMO I don’t see LaRoche cutting the mustard at the ML level. Hopefully I am wrong but….
Now it appears that not much is going to happen on the Andruw Jones front. Lets miss the boat again!! I did see a rumor that perhaps Texas and the Dodgers were talking about Blalock. JP’s name was also mentioned. I like JP, but if a CF is found, trade him.
All wishful thinking but I have a feeling we are going to see the same team start 08 that finished 07. Yikes!
Ok, Wayne, so as GM what would you do to improve this ballclub?
I’m gonna laugh when Detroit misses the playoffs next year and Miller turns into a stud on the Marlins.
wo the Winter meetings start and this blog has an influx of idiots. What gives?
wow*
haha max
Lol, Max, I took the high road, but I’m not sure what’s got into some people out there.
IMO I don’t see LaRoche cutting the mustard at the ML level.
—
curious as to why you say this? your opinon is yours and I respect it, just wondering how you come to the conclusion…was it his 93 career MLB at bats? If so I can show you lots of players who are superstars now who had worse first 100abs, likewise i can show you bad players who had first 100abs that were totally awesome…
Or is it his minor leauge numbers? they all played in the same place…….
in the minors:
Kemp .310 .358 .518 .876
Loney .296 .363 .430 .793
Ethier .317 .389 .464 .853
LaRoche .295 .376 .525 .901
Martin .281 .391 .419 .810
I think those who wanted Cabrera are missing the fact that the Tigers team was a) better than ours before the trade, and built to win now.Whatever people want to say, we are not built to win now, whatever Kent might say. 2) That major league team remains in intact after the trade. They weren’t depending on Miller/Maybin to make significant contributions to the team. This would not be true if we traded with the Marlins. Its absolutely a great trade for the Tigers though, what a fun team to watch next year.
Whew we got past the possibility of Ned coughing way too much for Miggy. The 3 things on my winter’s meeting wishlist are now as follows:
1. Sign Andruw Jones
2. Sign Kuroda
3. Trade Pierre to Texas for CJ Wilson
If 2 of these 3 things happen, I will be perfectly content with our team.
good points jspelk.
Pierre for CJ Wilson… I like.
rickcindy,
Your post suggests that we are throwing a whole group of untested rookies into the lineup. Actually, the only untested member of our lineup as things stand now will be Andy LaRoche (assuming that he wins the job over Nomar).
Furcal
Martin
Kemp
Kent
Loney
Ethier
LaRoche
Furcal and Kent are long-time major leaguers. Martin will be in his second full year, plus a good portion of another year.
Ethier has about a year-and-a-half of major league at bats unders his belt.
Loney and Kemp each have just under 450 major league ABs.
All of these players have PROVEN their worth. Questions remain as to just how good Loney, Ethier, and Kemp will be. Little if any question remains that all three are good major leaguers. Loney and Kemp have shown that they are almost surely well-above average major leaguers.
That is why this team is ready to win THIS COMING SEASON. Adding Andruw Jones would make us the clear class of the NL West.
Meanwhile, we wait ’til July to see where we may need to fill holes and/or upgrade.
Right now we don’t know that we have any real holes. The biggest question is at 3B where LaRoche was yanded in and out of the lineup as part of Grittle’s schizophrenic management style. Let’s see what he can do with a real chance.
When we get to July, we’ll find a replacement for LaRoche or anyone else who’s not living up to expectations, or we’ll be in position to get a premium pithcer or hitter with all of our as-of-yet-untraded minor league talent.
I get the impatience. What I don’t get is the belief that we don’t already have almost all the pieces already in place.
Frankly, I think this team as it is right now may be good enough to go all the way to the World Series, especially if we play somebody other than Pierre in the outfield.
Last year was the equivalent of 1973, when The Infield came together. This year is the equivalent of 1974.
Just sit back and enjoy the dynasty that is emerging.
hey guys.sort of a “rookie” on here. i agree with a good amount of you that jones would be a good pick up and that kuroda would be as well. and that we shouldn’t offer kuroda more than 3 years at maybe 10-12mill. as for jones. id give him a 3year type deal with a 4th year option. i am also shocked and happy to hear about that det/fla deal. tigers giving up 6 futere studs for cabrera and willis. good thing is we no longer have to have worries in the back of our head that ned could throw away 3 or 4 fuetre stars. i think another pickup for the bench and bullpen would be nice. possibly tony clark,and get rudy seanez back. and i beleive nomar and andy larocher should duke it out in spring for the starting job. i hope that laroche wins, he shows great potential. now we come to pierre, his numbers were horrible. he’s a nice guy but not a skilled ball player. trade him to texas or chi sox for anything really. i think even with the guys we have now we will have a better season beacuse our coaching will be a whole lot better. torre will know who to start and who to bench and as long as our guys stay healthy i think we will be in the runnings. make the right moves, get good pitching and d, and stick with the young kids and i beleive we have a chance to beat the other nl west teams. it’ll be tough, but we can do it
nice post rook.
seriously.
Just my thoughts but the tigers gave up much less for Cabrera and Willis than the marlins were asking from the dodgers and angels just for Cabrera. Pardon the pun, but something smells fishy about that deal.
p.s: great post martinloneykemp. all of our young ball players are fuetre all stars. i dont get how people can’t see that loney is a fuetre 300+hitter and great defensive 1st basemen and that kemp has the potential to be a 30HR 30SB player and has a great arm and good range
Thanks michael,
Let me just say that I was the first one I know of to predict that sometime in the next eight years Loney will make a run (not necessarily succesfully) at .400.
Really hope Bosox don’t get Santana. I’m tired of Boston, Yanks and Mets being bottomless money pits. Very happy Tigers got the goods from the Marlins. Good for them. Gotta love Leland. Evidently much of Tigers brass used to be Marlins brass and they have seen/scouted/signed Cabrera/Willis since way back. Double good for them.
It has been a long time since I posted from Montreal,Canada. I just wanted to say, I hope Superman Jeff Kent plays another year for the Beloved Los Angeles Dodgers!Hopefully, the boys can make all the right moves in the off season and bring home the World Series in 2008. But, it just wouldn’t be the same without Superman Jeff Kent.I just want to say as a Canadian, we have the best neighbours in the world south of the border in the United States of America!
Funny, how they ask more from us than anyone else.
As a lifetime Dodger fan, who lives on the East Coast, I am seriously beginning to wonder if I should jump ship since this team’s ownership simply does not have any inclination to improve. How is it that we let a great 3rd baseman go to of all places….Detroit without a legitimate fight? I have the answer. You have ownership who is simply concerned with making money and not making a winner. If I was living in LA I would have to seriously think of becoming an Angels fan in light of the little regard the ownership has for its fan base….keep letting the Winter meeting days go by “quietly”….I am sure next season will go by the same way. Although, I hope I am dead wrong.
Yep, Max they just keep on coming…
Thanks Ndeschenes. Likewise going north.
– The Dodgers and A’s are expected to meet tonight, presumably to discuss a trade involving Dan Haren and/or Joe Blanton, who the Dodgers took a look at before last season’s trading deadline.
– Any potential trade talk about Baltimore’s Erik Bedard or Miguel Tejada is only at an early stage. Also, there’s this: “I don’t have any interest in trading (Jonathan) Broxton,” Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said.
– Regarding last year’s clubhouse troubles, Colletti said, “I know why it occurred. It’s been addressed.” Speaking of which, a source today recounted an incident between Jeff Kent and James Loney after a September loss last season that underscores the divide. Loney untucked his jersey after the game in the near-empty dugout, and Kent ordered him to tuck his shirt back in. Loney was in the middle of something and said alright, he’d do it. Kent shook his head and walked off in a huff and later let Loney know how unprofessional the kid was being. It was at the end of the series that Kent criticized the team’s young players.
– Oh, and back to Nomar, he basically wanted to know where he stood as far as next season since the Dodgers had been rumored to be looking at Miguel Cabrera at third base. Colletti said Nomar and Andy LaRoche will battle for the job this spring, and that’s looking like a good bet given that Cabrera is now off the board.
Seriously though al and Max… Can we get a filter to sort out the people who know nothing before posting? There should be a 3 question litmus test that if you fail you are barred from commenting…lol… I love the first amendment way to much for that but seriously though– what happened since the beginning of Nashville that has caused the influx of punks?
GREAT post Jspelk about why such a trade makes so much more sense for a team like Detroit. I have been saying all along that teams just ask the most from us simply because we have the most to offer. Detroit gave up a very good outfielder, a good but not great pitcher, and minor league place fillers, and they are asking for Loney, LaRoche, Kershaw, Kemp, Bills– pick three… Good for NEDERINO if you ask me
Purehitter i think id like it if you became an Angels fan anyways…
Jungar– if that is an accurate account of Kent/Loney that Kent is a *****.. You can chalk it up to being frustrated that the season was slipping away, but does he expect Loney to go home with his uni on or something??
There is an interesting post at dodgers.com fan forum titled “I met Logan White Tonight”
wow,
That trade was huge, if you think about it, that gives detroit one of the best lineups in baseball, as well as a pretty good starting rotation. If they can just patch up their bullpen, they could be up there with Boston, New York, Angels, Cleveland.
But Boston trading for Santana would be bigger, I mean, their starting rotation would have Beckett, Santana, Matsuzaka, Curt Schilling, and Tim Wakefield. That is just wow.
And with their hitting, Boston looks pretty good to win the WS again
I still think the Dodgers are good for this year, if they trade Pierre, and sign Jones or a comparable guy. Oh well, I guess it is up to Neddy. But I kind of like the idea of trading for Bedard….. we’ll see
Sorry, that post was deleted by its author. The responses are still there however.
kent is a cancer. the team karma will just be worlds better when he is gone.
They gave Juan Pierre 5 years, but they won’t give Andrew Jones 5 years. Get the deal done he is going to have 2 great years because he has a chip on his shoulder, and then it’s going to cost you way more to re-sign him. They also gave JD Drew a 5 year deal and he *****.
speaking of that, funny we haven’t heard much about teams being interested in gonzo. hmm, wonder why.
Eduardo– maybe we should keep making the same mistakes in the past and think it will work out better… GREAT IDEA.
Last time I check Andrew Jones is a gold glove winner. Ned knew that Juan Pierre had no arm, he know that he had a low on base percentage, and he still gave him a 5 year deal. Andrew had one bad year. In 05 he had 51 home runs and in 06 he had 41. Besides his defence will win you at least 5 more games. I can’t believe how much you guys love Matt Kemp. He has not done anything in the big leagues yet and he thinks he is a super star. Jeff Kent was not the only bad one in the club house last year. Even doger insider George A. Martinez said he has had a hard time dealing with Kemp.
Jungar the actual incident that set off Kent and this came from a really reliable source. in a game with The dbacks the Dodgers were making a pitching cnage. They were losing about 8-1 and Loney went to 2nd base to speak to his high school buddy Chris Young and Kent thought this was very disrespectful and let the media know. Kent apparently reached out to the kids to say this is how you handle this situation, play here and they basically ignored him. Again I was not there but it came from a very reliable source.
I also see where we are the leaders for Rolen…why? He is never healthy…unless we give up a used glove and 2 broken bats play Laroche!!!!
The Dodgers are the new front-runners for Scott Rolen, says FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal.
Rosenthal doesn’t mention the Giants as being in the hunt. If the Dodgers want to gamble on a third baseman with injury issues, they can go with Andy LaRoche and Nomar Garciaparra. The money Rolen will command could be better spent elsewhere.
Here’s the Rosenthal story:
The Dodgers are now the team in hottest pursuit of Cardinals third baseman Scott Rolen, according to major-league sources.
The Brewers had been the front-runner, but their talks with the Cardinals cooled early Tuesday and appear unlikely to revive.
The Cardinals’ preference is to trade Rolen out of the division. The Dodgers are seeking an upgrade at third base, but likely would want the Cardinals to assume a portion of the $33 million remaining on Rolen’s contract.
Several other teams also are interested in Rolen, including the Angels, who failed in their efforts to acquire Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins.
End of Quote
My commentary is this: Rosenthal is a goof and this is not going to happen.
And how many did he have in 07 Eduardo, because we all know baseball is a what have you done for me lately game– o yes, 26. Not bad, certainly respectable. However, 05- 51, 06-41, 07-26 : Do we sense maybe some decline here? I know you havent read this blog for that long, but there was also a very compelling piece regarding a Jayson Stark Book ( i think it was him) that explains very comprehensively and logically as to why Jones is really an overrated CF– Gold Gloves are a popularity contest anyway; once you have won a couple its like you are a lock. Fact of the matter is, why reward a player so greatly after such an off year? What kind of standard and precedent does that set for your organization? He doesnt deserve to be paid based on how he produced 2 years ago…
Rosenthal is such a joke– i would take away his press credentials if i were ever in an opportunity to. However, if they wanted to take JP- i would consider it. LOL
You cant say Kemp has done NOTHING in the bigs after his performance for the ENTIRE second half of the season– the guy was a beast… And regarding the “real” reason for the Loney/Kent feud– its still ridiculous but i suppose somewhat less than the shirt tucking. In the professionals players do that stuff all the time and its no big deal– they are professionals… I’d like to go back to when teams literally hated eachother and therefore didnt fraternize at all, but thats simply not the culture anymore. Kent knows that as well as anyone– the guy is a good player but really a selfish jerk who thinks he has a right/obligation to exert his opinions and desires on all those around him. Ill talk him for one more year and then gladly wave goodbye to another good ole Texas hick.
Excellent column by Tim Brown:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlRfCQ7FFrTw_jJmmSIxo6kRvLYF?slug=ti-dodgersgm120407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
The Dodgers had a chance of getting Mike Lowell a couple of years ago. They passed on that as did many teams. He was the throw in player in the Josh Beckett trade, and this year every one wanted him. After he had a bad year he rebunded and is an all-star again. All I know is that Jones is going to have more than 24 home runs wich he had last year, and if he was with the dodgers last year he would have led this team with home runs.
Seems Florida called the Dodgers one last time before accepting Tigers proposal and left Colletti a message: Loney, Kemp, Kershaw. Of course the answer was no. So now Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports opines, “…not the Dodgers, apparently, not the 82-win, fourth-place, have-done-nothing-for-20-years Dodgers.”
Hold to the principle of building from within. I’m confident Dodgers will have the last laugh.
this Hank Steinbrenner guy is really getting on my nerves… i think he’s worse than is old man. His quotes are just so outlandish. So far he’s run Torre out of town, Messed up the Yankees’ dealings with the Twins for Johan Santana (and may be charged with collusion for interfering with the red sox and twins negotiations), and he recently called Billy Beane “ridiculous” for his demands for Dan Haren. At least this guy isn’t running our team.
this Hank Steinbrenner guy is really getting on my nerves… i think he’s worse than is old man. His quotes are just so outlandish. So far he’s run Torre out of town, Messed up the Yankees’ dealings with the Twins for Johan Santana (and may be charged with collusion for interfering with the red sox and twins negotiations), and he recently called Billy Beane “ridiculous” for his demands for Dan Haren. At least this guy isn’t running our team.
Jones and LA still talking, fresh article up on dodgers website.
I really am crossing my fingers that Kuroda will be smart an sign with LA for less money. I think its oftentimes detrimental for pitches to take large contracts from teams they haven’t played for before, especially in his case considering the culture change. That being said, LA has a thriving Japanese culture which i certainly hope he gets to see via Saito and what not.. Also, the Dodgers have had the best relations with Asia baseball since Asian baseball became relavent.
I just don’t see us giving him a 5yr/11 per contract like is supposedly being offered. Part of me certainly thinks this is wise, but i will be upset this offseason is we spend 0 in FA considering the players out there (some good ones that fit our needs) I will be upset. I suppose if we dont sign Jones than we better get Kuroda– **** cant we just give him Schmidts contract?? lol.. (although im sure he would take such a deal) More worried about the years and commitment. That is one aspect that is so much nicer about football contracts/union.
i love the ned colleti quote in relation to a big bat and kemp/loney.
“how do we know that we dont have it right here”
it shows that he is confident in the young guys being productive and will not give them up easily, or at all i hope
I just don’t understand the demands that are rumored to be made of the Dodgers for Miggy if the Tigers were able to pull that off…
I too am surprised by that deal on Florida’s end…
I gotta say I for one am pretty happy with the quotes Ned has come out with.
Alex even Nomar is saying, really Scott Rolen?? LOL
the first thing accurate Rosenthal posts is the the first thing accurate he will post.
I gotta say Kemp 95% is going to be a better player than Maybin, PLUS Kemp isnt a prospect anymore– you have a much better idea of what you;re going to get from him on a daily basis- cant say that with maybin. The fact they were asking for Kemp and Loney (who is the same if not more established than Kemp) AND Kershaw is lunacy. The fact they wouldnt take a trade around Kemp is lunacy.
Wow, very exciting and nerve wraching day at the gm meetings, I am really, really glad we didn’t trade for Cabrera,and am very glad to hear promising words from Ned. I know it’s been said a 1000 times but let me say it again, pleas hold on to the kids, man I can’t wait to see a Dodgers team made up of homegrowns, it’s been so long. I would also like to applaud Mr. McCourt on his ownership thus far. I like that he is improving the stadium without doing away with it and I think he really does want to win. Here’s to a happy tomorrow at the meeting.
I agree 100% chjones– especially about the renovation to Dodgers stadium. I love it so dearly and do not feel like any of the changes have really taken the soul out of it. There are a lot of screens, but im used to that being a 20 year guy. I would hate nothing more than DS being rebuild or something.. Its the best, and the renovations that have been done were necessary to keep up with the times…
Guys I still wouldn’t mind via free agency;
Jones
Fukudome
Silva
Garcia
Dotel
Colon
Hillman, who managed in Japan before getting the Royals job, likes Fukudome’s approach.
“He’s short to the ball, he’s got great balance, he stays inside the ball,” Hillman said. “He’s got more balance than left-handed, Japanese-style hitters with the leg lift. He’s athletic defensively. A lot of people don’t know his high school background — he was originally a shortstop in high school, so that gives you an idea with athleticism and lateral movement. His reads and routes are very pure in the outfield.
“I’ve been asked … whether or not he could play center field if there was a need in the right ballpark,” Hillman said. “I have no reservations with that. I’m not sure it’s a long-term fix in center, but I wouldn’t have any reservations about putting him in a center field that wasn’t a huge gap-coverage outfield.”
The Cubs would be interested in having Fukudome take over right field. Could he be a middle-of-the-order-type hitter?
“Yes,” Hillman said. “I think he’s a run-producer. Just throwing it out there — five, six, somewhere in there. Possibly after getting acclimated with the league and the pitching he’s facing, maybe even a three. I don’t think he’s got the consistent slug of a No. 4.”
Hillman, who managed in Japan before getting the Royals job, likes Fukudome’s approach.
“He’s short to the ball, he’s got great balance, he stays inside the ball,” Hillman said. “He’s got more balance than left-handed, Japanese-style hitters with the leg lift. He’s athletic defensively. A lot of people don’t know his high school background — he was originally a shortstop in high school, so that gives you an idea with athleticism and lateral movement. His reads and routes are very pure in the outfield.
“I’ve been asked … whether or not he could play center field if there was a need in the right ballpark,” Hillman said. “I have no reservations with that. I’m not sure it’s a long-term fix in center, but I wouldn’t have any reservations about putting him in a center field that wasn’t a huge gap-coverage outfield.”
The Cubs would be interested in having Fukudome take over right field. Could he be a middle-of-the-order-type hitter?
“Yes,” Hillman said. “I think he’s a run-producer. Just throwing it out there — five, six, somewhere in there. Possibly after getting acclimated with the league and the pitching he’s facing, maybe even a three. I don’t think he’s got the consistent slug of a No. 4.”
I’m glad that the Cabrera and presumably Santana deals are off the board, and that we did not participate. It does seem like what we were asked to give up was far more than what was asked from some of the other teams. Maybe that’s just how we evaluate our own talent. I wouldn’t mind getting a Bedard (does not seem likely), Haren or Blanton, but I’m going to trust that Colletti isn’t going to give up the farm for these SP’s either.
I would gladly get Jones, but only is we can move Pierre to some other team; otherwise, it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to me if we’re going to play Pierre in left and have to platoon Ethier and Kemp in right. It would almost necessitate trading either one of the two.
I’ve read a couple of post saying they’re tired of the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets spending tons of money. Why? The Dodgers could spend the same way to get the free-agents we need but they won’t. Until they start unloading money on the right free-agents then we’ll never win. This year the only FA worth throwing money at is Jones. He’s worth more than Hunter so just pay him. Jones is a game changing CF that will make our pitching staff look like gold. He had one bad year, so what. He’s the best CF in the game so just pay the man the money he’s earned and let’s get to October.
I agree with messagebear and cameron…sometimes the best deal you make is the one that you dont..we traded pedro, konerko and they turned out to be, one a superstar and the other a slugging 1st baseman that we have needed for 10 yrs. Take the chance with the kids one full year and if they do not work, I for one will take it on the chin. The Dodgers have spent money on FA, and have gotten no where. No more JD i never have fun Drew, no more Pierres for 45 mil. I say if you can get Andruw 3-4 years ok because he loves the game and has produced, but lets get some pitching. We need another starter and another lefty for the pen. They have a chance to have something special and bring back Dodger Pride. No more Hendricksons, Loiazas, Bombkos, etc…..
oh yeah no more Gonzos, please no more 40 year old stiffs.
i wake up this morning and still ned has not done one thing.whatg is the problem with offering jones a three year contract and get him in here. didnt ned sign furcal for three years when we had izturis in our team? what is the deal with him?
Here’s my take. I have been a Dodger fan for 60 years, but if Colletti trades away a future Superstar like I think Kemp is going to be I will be done rooting for the Dodgers and will probably take up golf to keep me occupied. Let’s take this in consideration, if every team Colletti talks to about trades, they all want Kemp, they evidently think he’s going to be a superstar also.
Don’t trade kemp…………..
I do not think Ned would have a problem with 3 years but that ************ Boras will not do it. Hopefully Andruw will get desperate and give in.
i really dont think they will trade kemp. i think as long as they get another CF besides playing pierre we will be ok. my thing with ned is why wai so long to do this.
You know the sad part about Pierre is he is the type of player that we all should love. He works hard, hustles, plays everyday and never complains. If only he did not hit so many weak popups/ground balls or have such a poor arm. I respect him but he has to go.
Ned is afraid of losing his job, that’s why he won’t improve the team. Last year he gave 95 mil to a pitcher with a bad shoulder and a pinch runner. He’s too afraid to even offer Jones a contract or to try and trade Pierre. The bottom line is that Ned should have been replaced when they got rid of Little. After this season when the Dodgers finish 4th or 5th Ned will be fired. Bottom line is they should have gotten rid of him sooner. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. Last year I was right about Gonzo and Pierre . Loney and Kemp are good young players, but it’s unfair to ask them to carry this team in their first full year in the bigs.
Ned HAS already improved the team by subtraction, not trading the young players, and not obtaining veterans who would block them. Loney, Kemp, Martin, and Ethier are ready for productive years IF they are given the chance to play everyday. Last season Kemp and Ethier were in and out of the lineup on such a frequent basis that it had to be hard to stay in the grove and not lose confidence. Many times one of the young players would be in the lineup and have a really big day and would be on the bench the next day or even sent down like Young was. Young and LaRoche can be contributors this season if given the chance, too. If Ned stays the course and keeps and doesn’t block the great young talent that he has, the Dodgers will be a much better team than last year.
your right, pierre is good player but like you said shawn, those little opo ups to end a rally or to begin the game are real frustrating.
Exactly right about Colletti, fliegel. We would have been much better off with a clean slate when Little departed. Colletti may be gun shy, or he may even be on a short leash with McCourt calling the shots behind scenes. I also find it curious that Torre couldn’t be at the current management meeting. Doesn’t sound like Colletti can really do much of anything but talk the big game.
Colletti’s main assignment for the off-season should still be to move Pierre somewhere else. That would clarify a lot about what we can do in 2008.
RE: Pierre. Personally, its not his offense that bothers me at all– i like his offensive speed and contact hitting style. His real detriment is his throwing arm– its just terrible. Seeing those runners go from 1 to3 on a single to CF was painful and embarasing.
Eduardo, if it was only up to Ned than im sure he would give Jones a 3 year deal, but unfortunately Jones has to actually be willing to accept said deal. And he’s made it clear he wants a 5 year deal, so i dont see how you can blame Ned for not signing Jones while at the same time advocate a short team deal.???
And Torre NEVER goes to the winter meetings… its not his thing…
i would agree with both of you guys, the dodgers should have gotten rid off colletti! i think he has no creative instincts with players.
i read this morning that mattingly was the only coach with colletti at the meetings, meaning that mattingly will be next manager. hiring an ex-giant official reallly turned to bite us in the butt.
Courtesy of mlbtraderumors.com:
According to Dylan Hernandez of the L.A. Times, the Dodgers asked the Brewers about Bill Hall. Hall, who turns 28 soon, is owed $4.8MM in ’08, $6.8MM in ’09, and $8.4MM in ’10. He could play third base for the Dodgers.
You may also recall that the Dodgers called the Brewers about Ben Sheets recently. We also know that the Brewers have discussed trading for Andy LaRoche. Can Ned Colletti and Doug Melvin find a match?
Hernandez’s article also mentions that Troy Glaus could be an option for the Dodgers, but that may just be speculation.
What do you all think of a LaRoche/Pierre/Elbert type trade for Hall and Sheets? It would seem to fill positional holes for the Brew Crew and give us a front-line type SP (although injury prone) and a 3b/CF with power potential.
I basically agree with you, Shawn, about Pierre’s being a good citizen and a hard worker. On the other hand lots of people are good citizens and hard workers who were not blessed with sufficient talent to play in the major leagues. Pierre was born with talent and has no doubt worked hard to capitalize on it, so more power to him. But, of course all that doesn’t make me want him in our starting lineup.
I do think that there are one or two things within Pierre’s power that would make him somebody I would want in the lineup.
1) He DEFINITELY CAN take more pitches and thereby increase the most important number for a leadoff hitter, ON BASE PERCENTAGE!! That stat is even more important if, as is true of Pierre, less than 20 percent of your hits go for extra bases.
What is the difference between a single and a walk for a guy leading off an inning? Nothing. Well, actually the walk is generally slightly better since it usually forces the pitcher to throw more pitches.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but it seems to me that the only thing keeping Pierre from walking more is his own stubborn insistence on playing the game the way he wants to play it rather than playing the game in the way that best serves his team.
2) He PROBABLY CAN learn to be a better bunter … Wait!! I did the research thinking I would find evidence to show that Pierre doesn’t get all that many bunts given his speed. And I’M WRONG, by historical comparison he actually does very well in this area. And he has improved in bunting, with a personal record and league-leading 20 bunt hits in 2007 (“Sacrifice Hits” is apparently the official applicalbe stat which is a topic all its own) My apologies to Juan Pierre on this.
MLK I was not saying keep Pierre only stating that he does it the right way…I hate to suffer thru his at bats and watching him try to catch and throw…other than that I love the guy…If JD Drew had his work ethic or passion he would be a superstar instead of just being paid like one….as I stated before he has to go!!!
About Trades with the Brewers:
I like Billy Hall. I always have. In the end, though, Hall is probably exactly what he has mostly been for the Brewers: a supersub.
As an every day starter, he is only slightly more likely to outplay LaRoche (or Nomar) in a full season at third. Likewise, he’s an upgrade over Pierre in the outfield. But only by comparison to Pierre is he really very good.
In fairness to Hall, he really does deserve a shot at a full-time, every single day, job in the major leagues. And I don’t think he’ll get it in L.A. On the other hand if he has the attitude that he is willing and excited to do whatever it takes to help the team win, I would absolutely love to have him, because he really is an outstanding supersub.
Sheets is a stud … when he’s healthy.
Overall a Dodgers trade for Sheets and/or Hall is worth considering. Depends in part on salaries and who is eating how much of whose contracts.
Funny misprint on mlb.com.
1B Olmedo Saenz, Dodgers
He might be the most important veteran the Dodgers could lose. He made 73 appearances with a 3.79 ERA and was willing to be abused as a multiple-innings reliever. He’ll be 39, but his fastball still can hit 93 mph. He had almost a 3-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio. He’ll want a guaranteed contract after making the club off a Minor League contract, or he’ll probably retire.
RHP Rudy Seanez, Dodgers
He’s 37 and finally looked like it in 2007. His average dropped 105 points and the slugging percentage plunged 219 points from the year before. His RBIs went from 48 to 18. He was once one of the most feared pinch-hitters in the league, but it just wasn’t there for him last season.
We could try Seanez against LHP next year…he might hit as many HRs as Saenz.
I like Hall as well, but only in place of Pierre- not so much LaRoche. I would think they would want something frontline for sheets, so i dont know if i see that happening… Also, MLK, i want to, for the record, that i too see Loney challenging .400 someday.
in the minors:OPS
Kemp .876
Loney .793
Ethier .853
LaRoche .901
Martin .810
remind me why we need a 3b? (with having a 10 million dollar one in front of this guy)
I see Loney challenging .800. And sprouting wings and flying into the night sky upon retirement.
I do not know if Loney will hit .400 but he will be batting champ one year…
lol don’t sell him short puppyhead, I see him hitting 1.000 and magically teleporting himself to the surface of the sun to bask in his own glory.
i have given up hope that the dodgers are going to do any upgrades this off season. i am looking forward to another fourth place finish.
German where on the team do u want to upgrade? My guess it’s some of the spots we have players in now that we spent 125 million last offseason to upgrade…
can you honestly say you would rather see pierre than jones in CF?
first of all if pierre could reach second base throwing the ball that would be start, but he needs a relay man to do that. so you dont think we need an upgrade there?
Oh don’t start with me of all people on Pierre!! The day before he was signed I said it was the worst move EVER!.
The dodgers have already said they plan on moving him to LF. Regardless if they get Jones/Rowand. And boy will that be far, far worse. His speed will not be a factor in LF and we all saw how bad he reads the ball of the bat and then that throwing arm. Seriously any ball hit to left field is an automatic double with him out there. And his hitting is worse than his fielding. He is an out machine with no power who cant hit it out of the infield. He probably led baseball in force outs.
But yes Jones is the move I would make without a doubt. I would then get Pierre off the roster anyway possible.
I would also like more pitching..but otherwise I think we are set….
Guys do not panic we have already added 5-7 victories with a competenet manager who will not let the clubhouse become an issue. We got rid of Bozo I mean Gonzo and will have Ethier getting more at bats. Kemp, Martin, and ,Loney from what we have seen in more than a short test drive should continue to perform. I do not want to hear that they will not , because they have performed the last 2 years when given the opportunity. For that matter there are no guarantees that whomever we trade for or sign will perform. Anyone remember Dave Goltz, that was a bad sign. i still believe that Andruw will be a Dodger after Boras sees he does not rule the universe. The only ? I have offensively is Pierre and 3b. Furcal will be highly motivated in a walk year and healthy. He is a difference maker when healthy as he was 2 years ago, he has good pop and wheels. Kent will hit .285-.290 with 20 hrs. If we started today with Nomar and Laroche at 3b i could lilve with it. I just hope if we do sign Andruw, Ned will grab his kahunas and admit Pierre was a bad sign and move him at any cost.
Pitching is the biggest worry. Bills in my estimation the last half of the year he was the best pitcher and if he becomes more effiecient eith his pitch count he goes to the top of the list. Lowe never a big fan but he eats innings and is consistent. Contract year hopefully he performs that way or at the deadline we can get some young stud for him. Penny the big baby, he is such an enigma. He is dominant but throws too many pitches and he is a pain in the ****, but as a number 3 not bad. I know he is our number 1 or 2 but he is such a baby. Who is the 4th and 5th starters? Loiaza he is the worst waiver claim pickup in history possibly. Schmidt? the man with the bad shoulder and never should have been signed. I would have fired Ned for this more than the Pierre signing. If anyone should have known he was a walking timebomb it is Ned and Stan Conte…They had this guy for 7-8 years. He was on the DL the year before we signed him for a bad shoulder. A 34 year old power pitcher with shoulder history issues…hmmm…if it looks and smells like s…it probably is…I would look at Silva, he is a groundball pitcher and eats innings and maybe we get lucky with Loiaza or Schmidt. That is where we need to upgrade in my opinion. We also need another lefty in the pen, if Texas would do the CJ wilson for Pierre deal that someone else suggested…my Christmas wish will have been fulfilled.
Alright puppyhead and charris,
I just hope that this board and all of us are still around when Loney (minimally) carries a .390+ average deep into August so you guys can … pick your favorite appropriate or inappropriate metaphor.
are the giants really considering trading Lincecum? Wow, Sabean really is dumb.
Trading Lincecum already he was so hyped when he was first called up. This would be surprising.
Just think Sabean is Neds mentor…The apple does not fall far fro the tree…Poor Ned it really is not his fault.
hopefully the dodgers do not trade for rolen as is being reported.
Just unload Pierre at any cost and I will be happy.
Another rookie/first time poster here so please give me a minor break. I’m am not at a Pierre lover or apologist ( wouldn’t try with that contact for that many years), but with the ‘sign A Jones and dump Pierre’ theory, who is your 2009 leadoff hitter? We all know that Hu will not be entrusted to this spot with 0 full years of big league experience.
Now that we are going to sign Jones, let’s move kemp to right and Ethier to left and get rid of Pierre at any cost. Don’t trade KEMP……..