A brief break from blogging
I noticed a couple days ago that Josh Segal, the guy who runs Dodgerblues.com, got married and went on a honeymoon (yes, I read that site for a laugh just like the rest of you). He took a couple of weeks off from posting and our congrats go out to him and his wife.
Well, he’s not the only Dodger blogging Josh to take a break, as I’ll be gone starting Monday for a couple weeks with the pending birth of our first child. I should be back in the office in late October, so in the meantime, I hope you all will moderate the comments and put new topics up for discussion from time to time so the site doesn’t go stale. In fact, three of the great women who work in our department got an outfit for the soon-to-be-born child that says, "Check out my daddy’s blog" so hopefully you’ll take that advice.
Meanwhile, I played poker last night with the same group of guys I played poker with last year during the NLCS and I learned two things. The first is that I hate playing poker during the NLCS. I’d much rather be working games at Dodger Stadium than watching another team on TV. The second thing is that someone asked me last night what I did for a living and the topic of conversation shifted to the Dodgers for a bit. He is a huge fan and was a season-ticket holder until about five years ago. When I asked him what he thought we should or would do this offseason, he said that he thought we’d sign a big-name free agent just so that we can fill up the stadium but that it won’t help us win.
That actually made me really sad to think that some real Dodger fans – no matter how many or few – truly believe that anyone here is satisfied with just setting attendance records. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I know that all of you won’t necessarily agree with how everyone here goes about trying to win, but as someone who spends more than 3,000 hours a year at this stadium, I’d like to leave you with one assurance: That everyone here – from ownership to baseball operations to the team on the field and those of us on the business side of the organization – wants nothing more than to celebrate a World Championship with the fans of Los Angeles. You deserve it and we will all work as hard as humanly possible in the coming months and years to make it come to fruition.
Enjoy the next couple of weeks and Go Dodgers!
Josh
Inside the Dodgers 
Boo-yaah!!!
Congrats on the baby 🙂
http://baseballislife.mlblogs.com/
Roberto
Mazel Tov, may you and your wife have a healthy happy baby and may you all enjoy the wonderful world of parenthood!
Josh,
Congrats to you and your wife on the baby. Thanks for all the great work you did this season. Although I’ve doubted it at times, I still enjoy and appreciate this blog as a great forum to hear the thoughts of other Dodger fans. I look forward to reading your posts again when you return from your time off.
Having a baby is one of the best things that can happen to anyone, congradulations to both of you. I’m enjoying the NLCS but with mixed feelings. It’s nice to see the Rockies & D’backs representing the NL West so well, but I think it all means the Dodgers have their work cut out for themselves next year.
1) Congratulations, Josh! Hope all goes well.
2) Dodgerblues is a fun read, particularly after a loss. It takes a bit of the tension off, and reminds you no matter how seriously you take the game, it’s still that – a game.
3) With all the talk of moving Pierre to left, I would suggest it better mean moving Kemp to center. If that happens, no free agent outfielder will make the team better, because he’ll displace either Kemp or Ethier.
4) I have to wonder how much Ned Colletti really thought about signing Juan Pierre. The scouts should have known he has a weak arm in center, and the statistically-inclined could have told you that his career average and OBP are inflated a bit by two seasons where he hit .320 (and he usually hits around .290). To shift Pierre to left says that the scouts can’t judge the guy’s arm at all, and also that Ned Colletti will only go so far to admit a mistake.
5) Honestly, I get excited about the offseason and what I can do to put a team together if I play around as an armchair GM. Ned Colletti, though, scares me, as his trades are useless at best, and he seems to feel like he needs to make moves for the sake of making moves. I’d really like to be proven wrong. All I ask is that our third baseman’s first name next year start with an A, and that Kemp and Ethier are both starting outfielders.
Next year will be very tough for us considering the competition in the NL west. Unless Pierre is moved to left and we sign a CF our ERA won’t be at the top of the league because of Pierre’s defense. ARod would immediately make us the favorites in the division but the chances of seeing him in Dodger blue next year are slim considering his pig agent. No matter what I think to avoid another year like this one we need to get a fixture at 3B. Let’s face it, Nomar and LaRoche aren’t the answer there for next year. No matter what it will be difficult to win considering the division that we’re in and considering that we’ll have Pierre/Loaiza/Hendy on our roster.
I can’t remember when I last read two comments in front of me that I totally agree with. One thing being, Id like to see A-Rod on 3B and that I’ll never understand why Colletti signed Pierre knowing he had such a weak arm, If he didn’t know it, then I wonder why HE (Colletti)was hired. I also agree that we don’t need a free agent to play in our outfield when we have Ethier & Kemp. I’ve watch both the NLCS games and I must repeat if we don’t improve over the winter our work will be cut out for us in ’08
I sure wish that the Dodgers were in the playoffs, but that’s old news now. If you follow the playoffs at all, you have to be excited by the continuing fine performance of the Rockies. If I wasn’t a Dodger fan, I could love their group of fine young players plus the couple of veterans that do seem to blend in very nicely beyond just these playoffs. I’m afraid that we will really have to stretch to match up with them this coming year.
Their couple of young pitchers Jimenez and Morales can only be expected to become better, and Francis is now every bit on par with Penny, Lowe and Bills over the stretch of a full season. Among the position players I think we’re only better at catcher and first base positions. In the outfield I’d give the Rockies an edge when comparing Holliday/Kemp, Tavares/Pierre, and Hawpe/Ethier. The same edge to the Rockies when looking at the 3rd base, ss, and 2nd base positions. Of course, they’ll come down to earth from their unbelievable season closing and post-season streak, but it looks to me like their development from within has worked to almost perfection.
Hopefully we bear that lesson in mind, although in addition we still need to add an established bat with power and a starting pitcher that’s better than Hendrickson, Loaiza or Stults/Houlton. I do not count on Wolf or Schmidt producing anything, but it would clearly be a big benefit if somehow they could. It should be an interesting off-season and 2008. I won’t belabor the issue, but we would have been a lot better off if somebody other than Colletti and Grady were in charge.
if arod comes to the dodgers…then that is it. im done with the dodgers. ive been a huge fan since i was 5 years old. that is 13 long years. there is no way that i will be able to put up with arod’s s*** for the next 10 or 11 years
arod’s s***? you mean 50 plus homers annually? being the best player of all time? added interest nationwide in the dodger?
Bill 1234,..I’ve been a huge dodger fan, since I was 5 yrs. old. That was 71 yrs. ago. You have a lot of growing up, to do,son. Put up w/ A-Rod ??? Are you sick or retarded ????? It may be better if you become a Padre fan…….
I can’t wait to see LaRoche get a full season under his belt next year. He will split time with Nomar during the beginning of the season, but his defense and power potential wins out in the end.
A-Rod will not be signed and Lowell is benefitting from Fenway.
LaRoche is the best 3rd baseman we have.
josh lots of luck on the little one, it is the greatest gift of all. A Rod would be nice but if he wants 25-30 mil it will strap the team. Again, if we did not sign Pierre, schmidtm and Nomar we would be ok. I, for one, am rooting for Torii Hunter to pair with the young kids he would be a great leader. The kids would respond to him. That would mean either Kemp or Ethier out the door. Unless Ned got some kahunas and trade Pierre, pay most of his salary whatever it takes. If one of the kids can package and get Santana go for it. He is 27-28 and is nasty. that is all I want for Christmas.
Congratulations Josh and to your wife.
No on Lowell…please god NO LOWELL!
Andy LaRoche or A-Rod!
A little humor to lighten the mood:
BREAKING NEWS: A southern california man is dead today at the age of 27. The first report is that the man was killed by a mob of angry dodger bloggers. The bloggers were said to be frustrated with the mans view on the Pierre signing. The real name of the man has yet to be announced but I am receiving a report now saying the man went by the name of ‘diehard’.
w0w! ur the biggest joke! now i can say that swood has more knowledge than u have…
Posted by: jan_dodgers@yahoo.com | October 11, 2007 01:02 PM
*** man? I thought we were friends? I can’t believe you said that after the email I sent you. Well I guess I just found out what kind of person you really are…
yeah I agree swood has more knowledge than cameron that’s pretty sad.
Posted by: diehardblu@yahoo.com | October 11, 2007 01:03 PM
Now you guys are bashing swood. What has he done to yall. Show what kind of people yall are.
Posted by: cameronwalden24@yahoo.com | October 11, 2007 01:05 PM
Now I can’t believe you either diehard. The respect that I mentioned in the email I sent you, its gone.
Camron thank you for defending me even though I wasn’t there. I don’t necessarily agree with all your opinions but you are the closest person I can call a friend on this blog so I thank you. Tell Brox I said hi. lol.
I think the only person happy about this postseason outside of Boston/Cleveland/Denver/Phoenix would have to be Bud Selig. I guess he can say his revenue sharing plan is ‘working’. Make of it what you want…
Ned will not trade Pierre and I will be surprised if he is even moved to left. Like the rest of us, he knows Pierre was a bad signing, but I will be damned if I see the day he admits it.
Discounting the Dodgers fall from grace, the post season has, so far, been rewarding:
Padres go home.
Angels go home.
Yankees go home.
To complete the happy endings, I’d like to see J.D. Drew and the Bosox go home.
And finally, have Boras opt-out A-Rod and watch the market crumble before both their greedy eyes.
Josh, I couldnt have said it better myself. Alot of posters really dont know how bad McCourt, Colletti and the rest of the Dodger Orginization want to win a WS ring. I KNOW how bad they want one, Just as bad as us fans want one.
Oh and by the way, The best wishes on the new Child! Thats great stuff! All we can ask for is for the kid to be healthy.
God Bless!
It was pretty rewarding to see Cleveland’s young guys:
Sizemore
Peralta
Gutierrez
come up big against the Red Sox “proven veterans”:
Schilling
Ortiz
Ramirez
Gagne
when the game was on the line tonight.
Can’t really contest the fact that McCourt, Colletti and Grady want to win a WS as much as anybody. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like any of them have a clue as to how to go about it. Colletti isn’t capable of improving this team in the off-season. The best we can hope for is that he won’t ruin it further by trading off some of our indispensable young talent. Grady obviously doesn’t know how to manage this group of players or how to control the clubhouse. McCourt is content with doing nothing about the two management failures. With that combination lots of luck in 2008.
Congrats to you Josh on yr wife on the baby!!!
N yes I do believe that you all are trying yr best to bring a championship here to LA!!
Congrats, Josh. You’re life is about to change in a big way for the better.
I thought Gagne looked ridiculous in that Sox uniform last night. After looking at his stats this morning, I have the same opinion of them. Francona showed how much faith they have in him with that quick hook. I was thinking his career was in the dumper, but no doubt someone will give him a million or two for that caliber of performance.
Can anyone tell me who the meat-head was that allowed Gagne to pitch in that spring training game against these same Red Sox? Seems like Tracey was gone that day, and I cannot remember which jacka** that was.
Congrats on your new little one Josh.
With Kent and Pierre up the middle defensively and Ned and Grady running the show, we are toast.
Josh,
Enjoy. Luck to you.
About the Dodgers:
It is sad when many (most?) well informed Dodger fans are looking towards the off season with profound trepidation. It seems anytime Ned starts trading/signing players the trouble starts. I think most of us would be more content to leave well enough alone and go with what we have or can bring up from the minors. For all the talent that our minors have produced and continue to produce Ned does not seem to have a lot of faith in them. Everyone is resigned to the fact that Ned will bring in one or two washed up vets (Loaiza?), but hope to keep the inevitable damage to a minimum. Ned does not seem to learn from past mistakes (Nomar/JP/Gonzo/HERNANDEZ?) so I assume we will start out 08 with lead weights around our ankles until injuries and or mediocrity allow the young talent to persevere.
The 2007 season was lost in the off season more so than on the playing field.
I would like to state that I’ve been viewing the NLCS very closely and I agree, with those of you who feel that these two teams look a lot better than the Dodgers, at this time. I’ve, like most of us, become very familiar with their lineups, Tonight’s game from Denver has me hoping for the Rockies to sweep, if only to get the D’Backs down to size, although, I feel they will still be tough to beat. Most of all, I feel we need someone who is a proven 50-60 HR hitter, to be placed at 3B but not in the outfield. Now with Gonzo, supposebly gone, we should have our outfield set, although Pierre will not move to a prefered corner position, unless it is for somebody like Andruw Jones, but this problem is an upgrade to what we had. I feel our starting pitching is hard to figure out and I think can be improved, but I think any large amount of money should go where it is needed most, which is on the offense.LET’S GO DODGERS
I would like to add that I’ve been reading about some of the young Dodger pitching prospects and like other teams are doing, let’s take a real good look at them. Let’s be sure we do this before unloading money on a free agent pitcher. The Dodgers have always been able to develope pitching and I like to see more confedence in this by the current management.
One of my main problems with Dodger management is their ridiculous notion that they want to play the kids but they also want to WIN now…by doing that, Ned has chosen the wrong free agents to WIN now and postponed the kids getting valuable everyday playing time (other than Russell and Loney)..by wanting to WIN now, Ned signs the wrong people and we end up as badly as we would have if we had played the kids we have…but we would be further along in their progression..I think signing Andruw Jones would be a HUGE mistake…He’s not the player he once was and strikes out way too much…I’d rather have Rowand for a little less money if they are going to go that route…or trade for Garrett Atkins ( hear he could be available)…I just can’t help but think that Ned will continue to make bone head moves like signing Loaiza…I’m pretty sure several of us on this board could make better decisions!
One other comment..the Dodgers need to focus on DEFENSE this year..We had one of the worst in the league, if not all of MLB…so DEFENSE should be stressed…wonder if Dodger management cares…??
Our team, as it stands now is good enough to compete for the division title in ’08. We don’t need ARod or Santanna, or anyone else over $10 million a year. Commiting over 10% of the total payroll to one player is counter-productive to the concept of “team-work”. One or two superstars are not going to create a winning team. It requires having competent personnel at each position, with depth behind them.
Though we lacked power in ’07, a full season of Kemp & Loney, combined with further maturation of Martin & Ethier, increased playing time for LaRoche, and an injurie-free Furcal should provide at least league-average power:
Pierre…0
Furcal…10
Kemp…..35
Kent…..20
Loney….25
Martin…25
Ethier…20
LaRoche..15
=150 HR from starters.
These are just projections of course, but reasonable IMO.
Assuming our pitching will remain above league-average, we will field an above-average team which will improve as the season progresses. Of course, the roster can be tweaked at the July 31 trade deadline to fill holes as necessary due to injuries or poor performance.
Mr. Colletti, please put the checkbook away.
although Pierre will not move to a prefered corner position, unless it is for somebody like Andruw Jones, but this problem is an upgrade to what we had. I feel our starting pitching is hard to figure out and I think can be improved, but I think any large amount of money should go where it is needed most, which is on the offense.LET’S GO DODGERS
Posted by: pierreseastmeetswest@yahoo.com | October 14, 2007 01:08 PM
It isn’t Pierre’s option. If the team is better off with Pierre in left, then Grady and Ned better nut up and put him in his place. He is paid **** good money and much more than he is worth to show up and do what he is told. Same with Kent and Gonzo. 2007 was lost in part because management didn’t have the guts to put the overpriced, underachieving old players in their place.
How can we focus on defense with one of the WORST CF’s in the game playing every day??? Not to mention Kent at 2nd and Nomar at 3rd….
jboyd-there’s no assurance that anybody is going to put up those numbers next year—well, other than pierre hitting exactly zero home runs. We can’t just count on maturity of young players that may or may not happen.There’s also no assurance that Kent will return, which will leave us in a deeper hole in the power department. If he does return however, he should no longer hit cleanup. Im not trying to be pessimistic but…
I agree with you JHALL:****Pierre should just be told to move over, (unless Andruw Jones is already on his way here and nothing has been made official.I hope this is not the case), he ether moves over, for Matt Kemp, or makes a case of it.********** The D’backs loss tonight should put them in their place, they are not in the class with the Rockies they are more with the Padres. The sooner this series ends the better, because the more victories the D’backs get the better it is for them(And the better they are), if they beat the Rockies in the NLCS, then we are back to three, lesser, but dominent teams and disregard what I said above.************** I don’t think that the Dodger defense has hurt us as much as our offense and I believe a proven 50-60 HR man is needed in our batting order(preferably a 3rd baseman) in order to keep up with the other teams offenses in our division. We may even have the starting pitching including the young on the farm, if someone knows what to do with these guys. Our bull pen can compete with any team.******** Nobody knows where the Giants are but you never know these days. As it stands now the Rockies are the class of the NL West and they are the team we all must beat.
jspelk-
You’re right. There are no assurances that Kent will be back next year, or that anyone will put up the numbers I posted, but I do believe those numbers are reasonable guesses, just as it is reasonable to guess that Andruw Jones will hit 40 HR next year. I believe you can count on the maturing of the players…just as the Rockies have done. Teamwork is more important than superstars.
My experience has been that most veterans show a drop in performance after signing fat free agent contracts. Look at the Cubs…they’ve got several superstars: Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Zambrano…yet they got nowhere against a young D-Back team. Look at the Yankees…ARod, Jeter, Matsui, Giambi, Damon, Abreu, Posada, Clemens, Mussina, Rivera, etc. got beaten by a young Indians team. Look at the Rangers…they still haven’t recovered from the stupid ARod contract of 7 years ago…that contract left their team financially hamstrung for years. I don’t think they’ve had a winning season since giving ARod that contract.
Lets learn from the mistakes of the high payroll teams that money is not the answer to winning. The answer is building a team of youth. Look at the Dodgers of ’74 to ’81…Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Russell, Yeager, Sciocia, Sutton, Sutcliffe, Rau…the Dodgers DEVELOPED a winning team. Sure, there were others brought in…Wynn, Messersmith, Baker, Monday, Reuss…but a large percentage of players then were home-grown.
This team has a chance to be that dynamic…every bit as much as the Rockies. I really don’t see any gaping holes on our team, and no need to spend money for aging veterans. We’ve gone down that road with Brown, Green, Sheffield, Dreiffort, Park…how many playoff games did they win for us? They all had long-term contracts that prevented our front office from having the financial flexibility to add impact players when we really NEEDED to.
Lets learn a lesson from history, and avoid the free agent Kool-aid.
3000 hrs a year that is some REALLY good crack you are smokin there Josh…I know it seems that or they pay you for that but fact is you can’t actually spend that many waking hours there a year and not be a nutcase….math is simple and we are not stupid…We all know that you spend all waking hours thinking about the team but at the stadium….We all spend travel time to get from and to work flights and all but season c’mon we all work for a living and work hard at our jobs…four our lil dodger dollars….
Congrats Josh. The first and most important move the Ds should make is to get rid of Ned and Grittle. Once this is done I’ll be convinced the team is serious about winning. Another good move is get rid of the pinch runner in center and have a real player play there. The other night I was thinking about Pierre giving Grady a motorcycle for his number. I don’t know about you people, but to me that just doesn’t seem right. After all if Grady can profit from Pierre , would he bench him if warranted?
Congrats on the baby Josh.
How ’bout them Rockies? Are they ever going to lose again? Those guys are playing with so much confidence right now it’s unbelievable. If they win out this has to be the best run in the history of sports. 20-1 is unheard of. I just hope they stay hot and sweep the Dbacks.
From the look of things the Dodgers will be playing catch up in ’08. We’ve got to pass SD pitching and the Rockies and Dbacks young talent. One things for sure, the NL West should be exciting for years to come.
I’m listening to KABC 790 and they just announced that the Dodgers will be on their station starting next season!
Our baby is due Nov 7 Josh! Congrats man. I hope to see you name your kid:
Juan Pierre Rawitch
I am going with Nomar Ungar
lol
Josh, hope the baby is healthy & your wife doing well.
Unfortunately, with respect to your poker partner, his feelings reflect mine & almost all other long-time Dodgers fans I know. There will be no winning until Little is not managing, with his lack of emphasis on good, fundamental baseball, his love of playing the Vets over the kids, not the best players at the time, & an AL mentality of waiting for the 3-HR, not playing small ball because of no-power players. In addition, his line-up & in-game decisions were puzzling &, frankly, ridiculous. The ’07 team was not constructed well, or managed even passably, & all should be held accountable for besmirching the legacy of a great franchise, which I’ve loved since Brooklyn days. Since the McCourts arrived, I haven’t attended a game, & it doesn’t look as if it’ll change any time soon.
Josh,
I understand where you’re coming from when you say everybody wants to win. I have no doubt everybody in the organization wants to win. The problem is that Ned doesn’t know how to put a team together, Grady doesn’t know how to manage the players and McCourt doesn’t want to bring in somebody, or in our case, promote somebody(Logan White)that knows how to evaluate talent and bring in the right guys. I truley believe that if Logan was given the reins that he could bring in a manager that would get us to the next level. Remember, Ned learned how to be a GM from somebody who traded away alot of talent for old and nearly washed up vets. Yes Ned has done a good job so far keeping the young talent in tact but what’s he going to do when the pressure is on him to win. My guess would be that he’ll trade away the entire future for vets. I personally think we need to move a few pieces so that we can win now and in the future. I think we are 2 to 3 years away from anything special with the team we have now. I think I speak for many when I say I don’t trust Ned to make the right moves or Grady to make the right in-game decisions. That’s why I think a change will have to happen for the Dodgers to return to the glory days.
I fear too Pat we will never win as long as Coletti is our GM. Last year I used to say well our GM is a joke and most hear would say, no Grady is worse ,he makes the lineup and makes the in game choices.
Fair enough (although I disagree, no one really wants to play Juan Pierre everyday, they just have to)
Well our GM just signed off on Grady for 2008..So it’s back on his shoulders once again. He belives Grady to be ideal for the job. These are his words and he should be fired for them when the time comes.
Cameron
The first move of 2008 was to bring back Grady.
McCourt made the first move when he didn’t get rid of Ned.
lol
jungar,
Congrats on your child also.
does anybody remember what today is?
What’s today max?
Thanks Cameron. I have no idea if it is a Boy or girl.
Let’s hope for a future dodger!
Max–I assume you’re thinking of the 19th Anniversary of that great night when people were dancing in the streets of Los Angeles because of Vin Scully’s call: “high fly ballm into right field, she is . . . gone! . . . And in a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened!”
I have not posted much in the off-season, but a few comments. First, I noticed that when the Diamondbacks won their NLDS Series, Eric Byrnes basically credited Kirk Gibson for the series, since he led them in the baserunning areas. Second, congratulations to Josh and Jungar on their pending babies. Two new Dodger fans for next year!
Also, I wanted to echo that I hope everyone thinks that the management WANTS to win. I was certainly less convinced when Fox ran the show, but I have no doubts now. And, if nothing else, winning is good for business–more opportunities to sell “2008 World Champion Los Angeles Dodgers” t-shirts.
Even though KFWB is my usual radio station (I like news, and predictable traffic), I am actually glad that the Dodgers are going back to 790 AM (despite the station’s rightward tilt since I started listening to it because of the Dodgers 26 years ago). More Spring Training Games (as well as the fact I can switch over to get traffic when the game is on). I was a little surprised to see that there would only be a weekly Dodger Talk. Back when the Dodgers were on 790 before, there was always pre-game and post-game Dodger Talk. I am hoping that is driven by the station–talk radio has obviously become more popular and profitable–and that they did not want to give up more air time. I know that the Josh/Bob Harvey dispute got played a lot in the last few weeks of the season (as did the Kent/Kent or Gonzo/Loney, or Old/Young, etc.), but DdogerTalk was well-liked, even when ripping the team. Just like the management, the fans want to win.
Finally, the old/young confrontation comes out, and two things seem obvious. The D-Backs and the Rockies went with their young guys, and one of them (looks like the Rockies) are going to at least win the Pennant. We did not. I don’t blame us for being cautious last year, but there is no excuse for proven veterans in 2008. Kids can win. Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton are a force, and a little LaRoche, Abreu, Hu, Young, etc. (and Kershaw and McDonald to come), there are years of championship teams in that bunch. It’s time to start playing them, and foolish to trade them or bench them for any “veterans”–with two exceptions. 1) If Kent re-ups, he certainly gets the nod at second base, though I expect that Abreu will play behind him, and if he falters, get the go ahead (actually, at this point, if we made no moves, I would expect Abreu to get 2 starts a week at 3B behind Nomar, and a start a week at 2B behind Kent); and 2) signing A-Rod. I still think he stays with the Yankees, and I am not really fond of him, but you can’t argue that he is one of, if not the best, player in baseball today, and he fits exactly where our 2 biggest weakenesses are–clean-up hitter and 3B.
Also, watching the Rocks and the D-Backs convinces me of something else. We could easily beat these guys, and should have. If you go position by position, our talent is as good if not better than the Rockies (though, compare our RF with their LF). The only place where I think that there is a clear advantage is 3B for them (though, we will see what LaRoche turns into if we can’t sign A-Rod), Catcher for us (by a good measure). Second Basemen are hard to compare (Kent and Matsui are very different players). Holliday is possibly the MVP, but Kemp is as good if not way better talent-wise. Tulowitsky is excellent, but a healthy Furcal is at least close, if not equal or better. And then, our pitching is just much better. We just have to use our resources correctly (i.e. playing the kids) next year.
Finally, in terms of off-season moves, there is a lot of interest in signing A-Rod or Andruw Tori or Hunter Jones. Those moves would make sense, and no other big name moves really would. But, the biggest off-season move would be to sign Leo Mazzone. Rick Honeycutt seems to be a fine guy and decent pitching coach (and I don’t really buy Brett Tomko blaming the Dodgers changing his mechanics for him stinking it up all year, since he was never that great anyway), but Leo Mazzone is one of the few people who should go to the Hall of Fame as a pitching coach. Yes, Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz were talented, but he made the Braves pitching unhittable for more than a decade.
I agree that Mazzone should go into the Hall but I’d rather see Kenny Howell promoted as pitching coach than somebody else come in. Howell has been with the young guys like Brox, Bills,etc. and he’s been with the guys coming behind them. He knows the most about them so I’d rather have him because the kids are the future.
jungar, congrats buddy, is this your first???
Yep number 1. Thanks everyone and thank you Lee. I always enjoy your reads….
Charris..any word on our new CF?
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scoutResults2007_LAN.html
our fans vote on defense.
Let me add my best wishes and congrats to Josh and jungar.
I also noticed no mention of a post game Dodger talk in the KABC announcement. Hopefully this is something that will develope later. Perhaps fans should start letting KABC know we would like some Dodger talk programming following the games, not just once a week.
Charris do you check that email on a daily basis? If you do there is something I will send you… I haven’t seen this posted very much but I don’t think we can go into the season with Nomar and LaRoche at 3B. LaRoche has a chance(if he can stay healthy) to be a really good player but anyone who watched him on a daily basis this year knows hes not yet ready and he would be better served with some more time in AAA. I think we need a quick fix at 3B and someone who is better then Nomar. I would LOVE to have Beltre back. He is my all time favorite dodger. VAMOS DODGERS!!!!!!!
jungar I am surprised by that article. I thought Wilson ‘.194’ Betemit was better defensively then LaRoche, Valdez and Martinez. Lofton homered… how much better is he then Pierre? ALOT!!!!!!!
Swood, I can understand your support of Beltre but he had one really spectacular season as a Dodger, got his big contract, and has done little to justify that contract. I am not yet sold on LaRoche myself but I would not favor bringing Beltre back at this time. I would agree that defensively Beltre is better than anyone the Dodgers have had at third but I would be surprised if the Dodgers had any interest in Beltre at this time.
lbirken I doubt the Dodgers have interest in Beltre. That is more wishful thinking on my part then anything. I would love to get Cabrera from FLA but a scout told me those talks were dead because they wouldn’t take anything less then Martin, who is obviously off limits. I’m just saying we need someone other then Nomar or LaRoche there. I also think we need to find a way to get rid of Loaiza, Hendy and Pierre… again though kind of wishful thinking…
Wishful thinking is one of those things that make this blog so entertaining. I would also like to see some power and defense at third base but I just don’t see it happening without paying a high price. My wishful thinking is LaRoche can do the job.
i don’t question Ned and Grady on them wanting to win a world series…i just question their ability to win one.
I’m not so sure a Cabrerra trade is undoable, even without including Martin in a deal. First off, the Marlins know Russell is as close a thing as untouchable as the Dodgers have. The Marlins also have said they can’t afford to keep both Cabrerra and Dontrell Willis, and would be looking for young pitcing if they move anyone. So the real question becomes just how much young pitching are they looking for…and would the Dodgers trade for a young, power-hitting, perennial 3B All-Star if it meant bye-bye to a package containing some combination of Billingsley, Broxton, Meloan, Greg Miller, Scott Elbert, and Clayton Kershaw. How many of these young arms can we afford to lose before the trade would make no sense? It’s a really tough call. Cabrerra is the real deal.
wow yet another horrible mailbag…
Luis Gonzalez shot his mouth off on radio today. As posted on Diamond Leung’s Press-Enterprise blog:
Luis Gonzalez spoke with Dan Patrick on KLAC-AM (570) today and had this to say about the idea of a split clubhouse:
“It was not as bad as the media made it out to seem. That was not the issue.”
Then Patrick asked what was the issue, and here’s Gonzo’s answer:
“We went away from a game plan. We had no game plan.
“If you look at our record, we had the best record in the National League at the All-Star break. And we brought up a lot of young kids, and when they brought the kids up, they did well. There’s no doubt these are all great young players. They were hitting .340, .350. Loney, Kemp, Martin, Ethier – they’re all great players, but we weren’t winning games. They’re getting three and four hits, but you’re not winning games.
“So in baseball a lot of times people look at the numbers instead of the results, and the results for us were we were not winning games, but that’s what the organization wanted. They wanted to develop these young kids. And instead of us going out there and winning games, we ended up finishing in fourth place and the fans are ticked off, and the organization is now going to continue to this youth movement, which is great for them. I mean, they’ve got great young players.”
But what the HECK is his point? Good bye and good riddance.
Sorry, I left off the divider. The last paragraph (“But what the HECK…”) is mine, not Leung’s.
Good luck Josh. I vaguely remember what that experience is like. It’s a lot like being a Dodger fan, fun, but with challenges, some of which you never imagined.
Even though Miguel Cabrera is a stud, he might spend all his time in the RF all-you-can-eat pavilion instead of the clubhouse. Seriously, he is still a 3B next season, but I’m not convinced he isn’t a 1B pretty darn soon, in which case he’s a short-term 3B solution.
I don’t understand the pessimism on LaRoche. He has played and performed well at every level of the minors, with a full season of AAA under his belt. I watched him play this season and what I saw was an above-average fielding 3B with a good batting eye and some power who is still learning to adjust to and hit MLB pitching, just like almost ALL rookies have to do – Loney and Kemp’s numbers are the exception, not the rule. Next season, I expect LaRoche, as Colletti puts it, to be breaking the door down. (Don’t believe me, look at all the reputable publications, LaRoche is still one of the top hitting prospects in all the minors.)
Wow, thanks for the laugh gonzo. What is this dude smoking? Getting hits is how you score runs gonzo. When you score enough runs, you win. If you want to insert veteran X who had worse numbers than rookie Y, you would score less often, not more. This is how baseball works gonzo, and here I thought you knew. Enjoy Baltimore next year buddy!
Anyone see this in Ken Gurnick’s Dodger Mailbag column?
How have the Dodgers done when they sign free agents to long-term contracts?
— Doug B., Valencia, Calif.
An appropriate word would be “disastrous.” Over the last 10 years, the Dodgers have spent about $800 million on 37 multi-year free-agent deals and extensions. To show for it, they’ve won one postseason game (courtesy of Jose Lima, working on a one-year Minor League contract). The richest and longest contracts have gone to Kevin Brown, Shawn Green, Darren Dreifort, J.D. Drew and Juan Pierre (Brown, Dreifort and Drew were represented by Boras). Of the first four, none of them were around to help the Dodgers when those contracts ended. Of the 37 players, the Dodgers dealt away 18 during the term of that contract, released three and five retired. The others are either still on the club or have left via free agency. You’d have a hard time finding more than a handful of those deals that any club official would say the club came out on the better end. In general, the longer the commitment, the more regrettable the deal for the club.
– echos my point from yesterday.
Let’s hope the Rockies are on a hot streak and nothing more. If this is them, along with the D’backs post season experiece, the Dodgers better hope A-Rod opts out. Pay the higher ticket and concession price I would if I was there, for a hitter like that. I hope McCourt shells out and Colletti straighens himself out with Boras. Our luck with free agents is sure to change for the better. A new hitting coach is coming, let’s hope he can straighten out our offense.
Old Fogey::: I read your post on Gonzo. You know that is a phenomenon. The kids played great, but the team did worse. I guess it was the high averages versus not hitting with RISP.
yep, the kids clearly can’t hit with RISP. Some phenomenon huh. Go look up the numbers which will show you the ALL hit well with RISP and the vets with the exclusion of Nomar and Kent did not. RISP is not the most important stat in the world anyways but you can’t hold that one against them anyways.
Pierre,
No, the team did worse because the PITCHING got worse.
Some numbers that show the Dodger pitching decline, comparing the second half to the first:
Team ERA rose 0.83
K/BB ratio dropped from 2.51:1 to 2.04:1
K/9 dropped from 7.74 to 6.87
HR/9 rose from 0.72 to 1.13
WHIP rose from 1.294 to 1.424.
Part of cause is too many starts by the likes of Tomko, Hendrickson, Loaiza, Stults and Wells, plus Lowe’s hip injury, Penny’s fade (to whatever extent), Broxton tiring (if that is the case – those flattened-out hangers look like evidence to me), Roberto Hernandez on the roster, etc.
our defense reallly hurt us…especially when you have Kent and Pierre up the middle all year. Ask any manager and they’ll say the defense starts up the middle…of course don’t ask grady little…his philosophy is “defense…who needs it!”
What is GONZO talking about?? He played 5 out of 6 games until they fell out of contention. I heard the interview I was shocked he’s a whiny old steriod freak. Good rittens have fun with the Reds or Pirates next year. We are never going to improve with this management team.
Fire Grady
Fire Colletti
Here’s one thought for the grist mill, especially those who look for A-Rod to come to the ranks of the Dodgers. Remember that McCourt, however rich he may be in his personal world, bought the Dodger franchise on a shoestring. Major League Baseball had to “special approve” the purchase because it was so highly debt leveraged. I don’t think that he can legitimately offer what may need to be a $300 million guaranteed long term deal to A-Rod without affecting the loan terms of the franchise purchase deal. It would be like buying a million dollar home with no down payment and then expecting the mortgagee to approve another million dollar loan for improvements on top of that. It might be done, but not so easily.
OLD FOGEY::: I meant the entire team’s failure to hit with RISP. (read that again). You make a good point on the pitching. I believe our bullpen is our strongest asset and I kind of forgot that Broxton and Saito {to some extent}, showed signs or physical or mental fatigue in those final games, also Loaisa was a bad pick. Penny always seems to run out of steam. I think among the starters {we already have}, including the kids, someone should find a pretty good starting staff, I still think our offense has to do better. I feel it could use some outside help. I hope they try free agency, before they start dealing the kids. In the N.Y. papers, as usual, the biggest complaint about the LCS is the late starting time off the teams out west. You know, I’ve been watching these games starting at 10:10PM & 10:40PM ET for sometime now, all summer, and it doesn’t bother me.
The start times really don’t bother me either until they have a long game and they don’t get over until around 2 a.m. I’d like to see the games out west start at about 9:00 or 9:30. That way if they do have a 4 hour game it’s over by 1:00 a.m. here on the east coast.
I think we’d have the financial means to sign A-Rod if we didn’t waste those millions of Dollars on useless players last year…Schmidt, Pierre, etc.
We are stuck in this situation because of the Pierre signing. If Ned wasn’t such an idiot we’d have an opening in center field for a guy like Jones, Hunter or Rowand. Now if we sign of those guys we’d have to get rid of Ethier or Kemp.
Juan Pierre is a pinch runner now. Thats it. He hurts the offense more then helps. I’d be willing to bet someone a bunch of Money that if we didn’t have Juan Pierre last year we would have finished with a better record.
Imagine if we just got rid of our worst players…we’d be so good. Apperently thats to to hard of a concept for Ned to wrap his mustachioed head around.
I still can’t believe we have to wait 4 more years to have at least an average center fielder.
As bad as Gonzo was last year, Pierre was worse.
Gonzo’s lack of AB’s came out of the exspense of Pierre.
Ethier, Gonzo and Kemp were all platooning. Out machine wasn’t.
Message, you are right. No matter what Josh says the McCourt group cares about one thing and one thing only…(and winning is part of it, but not most important)
…Building up the value of the franchise so they can sell it. Actions speak louder then words.
Ethier hit .286 with RISP
Kemp hit .333 with RISP
Pierre hit .245 with RISP
Gonzo hit .257 with RISP
Bye-bye Gonzo. It could have been nice knowing you. But it wasn’t.
Defense. I keep hearing that Colorado had the best team fielding percentage in history. I’m not sure how weak Willy Taveras’ arm is.
Why we fell:
1) Grady is one the worst major league managers in history.
2) The pitching fell apart.
3) The kids didn’t get enough playing time. See Number 1.
4) The veterans completely failed to show veteran leadership. Thus Number 3.
Well, I know it’s a done deal but I gotta say it anyway:
Fire Grady!!
Oh, and since he failed to fire Grady, fire Ned too!!
Why we fell:
Ned Coletti.
Heard a great rumor! An L.A. baseball team’s General Manager will step down in favor of the team’s Director of Player Development. Nice move Ned…I always knew you’d put the team first. What, the rumor concerns the OTHER L.A. baseball team? Aw, shucks, never mind…
Here are some stats that pretty conclusively prove that not starting the veterans, specifically Luis “Whiny” Gonzalez is not what hurt the 2007 Dodgers:
July 19-Aug. 14:
Team Record: 6-19
When “Whiny Started: 4-14
When “Whiny” Didn’t: 2-5
Aug. 15-Aug. 29
Team Record: 10-4
When “Whiny Started: 5-3
When “Whiny” Didn’t: 5-1
The Colorado Disaster Aug. 18-20:
Team Record: 0-4
“Whiny” Gonzalez started all but the first game of the doubleheader. Actually the veterans got a lot of playing time in this series and hit pretty well (as did the kids), especially considering it included a doubleheader. But all that veteran “leadership” and “knowing how to win a game” didn’t seem to help. Our pitching killed us with the Rocks averaging 7 runs/game.
Oops!
The Colorado Disaster was SEPTEMBER 18-20, NOT August.
After I heard what Gonzo said with Dan Patrick, the impression I got was that he was trying to cover his *** so that another club would pick him up. Gonzo caused trouble last year when his playing time was cut down because of young talent. Why in the world would Ned sign him knowing that we had all the young talent that we did. That goes to show you that Ned has no clue what he’s doing. Shea got cut(twice) and Hernandez got cut and nobody signed him. These players got cut for a reason so why does Ned even bother picking them up? Maybe it’s because he has no clue what he’s doing? Ned should be gone along with his buddy Grady. We’ve got new young talent and I think we need new management that knows how to put veterns around the young guys.
you have to wonder if the other vets on the team actually agree with gonzo’s spew of garbage. if they do—no wonder the clubhouse was a mess. He is completely illogical.
Maybe it’s because he has no clue what he’s doing?
I have been saying it for 2 years now. Even while winning in 2006.
Danny Baez “we needed a proven closer”
Nomar “we needed 90rbi”
Drew opting out coming as a “total shock”
Pierre “gets on base an awful lot”
Those quotes sound like something we would say, not a GM.
jungar,
Give us and yourself more credit than that. It seems like the fans are the only one’s that have a clue.
oh Cameron man you are funny….
here is another one jungar…
“we want Juan to get on base 200 times”
The sad thing about it is it’s really not funny, more like an embarrasement. It’s actually pretty sad that the fans have more sense than Ned. We may not see eye to eye on all of our opinions but I think we all would agree that each others opinions are better than Ned’s moves.
I got one for you max.
We want Juan to:
1. Have an OBP around .330
2. Have around 40 RBI’s
3. Have around 0 HR’s
4. Have a week throwing arm
5. Play every game
max, I don’t think I’ve heard your offseason wishlist for the team. Let’s assume we’re stuck with Pierre another season, what do you think would most improve our ’08 Dodgers given the free agents this offseason?
assuming we are stuck with Pierre…I would go as young as possible. Trade Kent, Nomar and Loaiza. Re-sign Wolf…Make a run at A-Rod. Hope Jason Schmidt can be at least a 5 guy. Sure up the long relief. Maybe try and trade Brad Penny dont know.
If I was the GM id try to go into next year with the follow team:
C – Russell Martin
1B – James Loney
2B – Tony Abreu
SS – Rafael Furcal
3B – Andy LaRoche/Alex Rodriguez
LF – Andre Ethier
CF – Out Machine
RF – Matt Kemp
Rotation:
Chad Billingsley
Derek Lowe
Brad Penny
Randy Wolf
Jason Scmidt/Clayton Kershaw
Bullpen:
Saito-san
Broxton
Meloan
Biemel
Alexander
Bench:
Delwyn Young(he would start in left the days Pierre gets off if i had my way but i dont”
Sweeney
Wilson Valdez
various free agents and call ups
Now assuming we by some miracle of God we do sign a-Rod I would package Brad Penny and Andy LaRoche for a young high ceiling arm that is possibly big league ready already. Andrew Miller possibly? Mike Pelfry perhaps. The Twins have a pretty good threesome of young arms as well. Indians have some arms too.
but we wont seriously contend for another for years anyways so who cares.
four*
Interesting take max, I always enjoy you’re perspective. jungar, I think I already know your direction but do you want to chime in?
What would you do charris?
Max what would the Mets want with LaRoche? Besides its not like Pelfrey’s been amazing. Taking a flier on a young arm with potential isn’t Ned’s style anyways. He’d rather pay millions for a retread.
Ideally, I’d try to sign Jones to about a 4 year deal, shift Pierre to left, package Furcal, Ethier and McDonald to Pittsburgh for Snell or Gorzelanny, hope Schmidt comes back at a decent level and give third to LaRoche.
Position players:
c Martin
1b Loney
2b Abreu
ss Hu
3b LaRoche
lf Pierre
cf Jones
rf Kemp
Rotation:
Penny
Billingsley
Lowe
Snell/Gorzelanny
Schmidt
Bullpen:
Saito
Broxton
Meloan
Beimel
Loaiza
How bout you cameron?
jspelk2, yeah i just threw pelfry’s name out there…id rather go after Andrew Miller or one of the Twins guys. I just think Brad Penny is very very very overrated and is expendable.
Well i shouldn’t say he’s expendable he just has a very high trade value right now…especially if some team is willing to bank on him throwing will for a whole season. He’s a free agent soon and will command alot of money when he’s a free agent…right now is a good time to trade Penny.
well*
Sorry been away….
I think that banking on Schmidt as part of the roation would be the end of 2008 before it even starts…So we have to at least get one more quality arm. 2 really..but for everyday players…
Martin C
Loney 1B
Abreau 2B
LaRoche 3B
Furcal SS
Ethier LF
Jones CF
Kemp RF
Trade Kent for a pitcher. Trade or dump Pierre.
When Schmidt gets hurt Kershaw will be ready….imagine if both Bills and Kershaw reach their potential! It will be like Koufax and Drysdale all over again!
I’m excited about Kershaw, from everything I’ve read, this kid is the next Koufax.
i would cry if we got rid of Pierre….I would cry tears of joy. Tears so joyous people would come from thousands of miles away just to witness my joyous tears. I would sale my joyous tears to people and become very rich and buy the Dodgers from McCourt
seriously who needs a cf?
I certainly don’t mind getting even more creative than what I just said…I just don’t see Ned as being creative so trying to stick to some reality…..
The problem with trading Penny is that other than Billingsley, he makes the least out of all our starters! Crazy huh. Lowe, Loaiza, Schmidt all make more…So we would have to replace him.
The problem with trading Furcal is who, besides Coletti, wants a 14 million dollar slap hitter? Sure he is good and a solid defender but thats Power Hitter money.
What’s funny to me is the guys we want traded are pretty much untradeable due to the contracts they have…if it was me Nomar would also be gone.
what about if we just got rid of Colletti? NAH thats too easy.
seriously who needs a cf?
—
I can think of one team…starts with D and ends S
Yeah, Ned getting creative isn’t a good thing. I agree counting on Schmidt isn’t a good idea. We need at least one more arm because Loaiza is awful, Schmidt/Kuo cannot be counted on, etc. I woulnd’t trade Penny as he is controlled reasonably through ’09. Id consider trading Lowe (for Burrell?) but its so hard to find a pitcher as solid as him Id keep him too. We better hope that one of our minor leaguers (McDonald/Elbert/Kershaw) at some point gives us some quality innings. The starting pitcher market, even via trade, is so incredibly thin. I was thinking about how it wouldn’t be terrible to have Hochevar lying around as a 4th/5th starter.
charris,
Nothing is a guarantee because you have to get the other GM you’re trading with to sign off on your move but this is what I’d do.
First thing I’d do is get rid of Pierre now matter how I had to do it. That means you try and sign Jones/Hunter/Rowand/Cameron, I’d rather have Hunter. Then I’d resign Hendrickson to a long relief role. Next I’d package LaRoche, Stults, Miller and maybe Hamulack to send to the Marlins for Cabrera. Then I’d package Kemp, Valdez, Stults, Zach Hammes and Loaiza together and trade them to the Pirates for Jason Bay and Grabow/Duke/Gorsellany (one of the 3)
That leaves us with:
C-Martin
1B-Loney
2B-Kent
3B-Cabrera
SS-Furcal
LF-Bay
CF-Hunter
RF-Either
Pitchers:
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Grabow/Duke/Gorsellany
Schmidt/Kuo/Kershaw
Bullpen:
Saito
Broxton
Beimel
Proctor
Meloan
Hendrickson
?
Bench:
Hu
Young
Abreu
Lieberthal
Sweeny
Most people will think I’m crazy but that’s what I’d do. This way we can win now and in the future. With the team we have no we’re at least 2 years away.
Oh I forgot to get rid of Nomar too.
Good point on Hochevar. How much did he end up getting per year? maybe 3-4 million per? He’s a good arm, not quite performing up to his capabilities, but its a good arm with potential.
Cameron:
“Next I’d package LaRoche, Stults, Miller and maybe Hamulack to send to the Marlins for Cabrera.”
Realistically, there is no way this would ever be accepted. To get Cabrera it would be LaRoche, Kemp, and a prospect pitcher like Kershaw, McDonald, or something along those lines. Miller has been either hurt or wild for 3 years now, he has no value. Stults is a below average pitcher. Hamulack…? below average situational lefty. Matt Kemp is better than Jason Bay now.
Here are the good and bad moves I can think of off the top of my headthat Ned has made:
GOOD:
Ethier/Milton
Mad Dog(Maddux)
Furcal
Anderson
Saito
Keeping the farm system intact
BAD:
Loaiza
Schmidt
Hendy
Tomko
Hall
Nomar
Pierre
Gonzo
Navarro
Lugo
Wilson ‘.194’ Betemit
‘Blowberto’ Hernandez
Mueller(the player)
Anderson(letting him go)
No matter how you look at it, thats not a very good percentage.
Matt Kemp is better than Jason Bay now.
Posted by: dodgerdude17@yahoo.com | October 16, 2007 02:38 PM
Come on Dodgerdude, Bay hit cleanup for the NL All Stars in ’05. Don’t you think its a little premature to say that Kemp is already better then him…?
Cameron- Hamulack…? He $ucks. A Nationals scout told me personally that the fish wouldn’t do any deal unless it included Martin, that was in June but he also said all talks were dead and he doubted a deal would get done. Hopefully the M’s are fed up with him, BRING BACK BELTRE!!!!!
Yea, i was just going to say the say thing Dodgerdude. But i like the thinking of going after Cabrera as our power guy much more than going after A-Rod, and, GOD FORBID, Andruw Jones. Shocked to see people say they would that trash, and then criticize Ned for going with declining Vets over youth. Plus, the amount of $ Boras is asking if ridiculous.
I think we get Cabrera for LaRoche, Kershaw, and Abreu– you do it without giving up Kemp or Loney at all costs.
Resign wolf for 3 million.
Then, you sign Rowand and give the Phillies Pierre while paying 5 million of his yearly salary.
C- Martin
1b- Loney
2b- Kent
ss- Furcal
3b- Cabrera
lf- Ethier
C- Rowand
RF- Kemp
Starters:
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Wolf
Schmidt/McDonald/Kuo/Stults
Pen:
Hendy
Proctor
Tsao?
Beimel
Brox
Saito
(find another guy, maybe Seanez)
The weakness would be starters, but hopefully you develop enough consistent offense to overcome it…
i think Loaiza has the potential to be productive…
Kershaw goes nowhere for no one.
Ewk, did you not read what I just posted? FLA: “Cabrera for Martin or forget about it.” That simple.
Yes ewk Loaiza and his 10+ ERA… He’s a shoe in for a CY Young…
trading Kershaw would be Pedro all over again.
I don’t know about that Max. I haven’t seen Kershaw but it would be pretty hard to live up to that hall of fame career. I hope Kershaw is ready by June of next year though…
kershaw goes NOWHERE for NO ONE
I know numbers don’t matter to many of you and Gonzo but:
2007: Kemp OPS+ 127 RC/27=7.2
2007: BayOPS+ 92 RC/27=5.0
career OPS+ is 129 RC/27= 7.2
So attitude aside, Kemp is already Bay he just needs a chance and is only gonna get better.
Runs Created – A runs estimator created by Bill James. A runs estimator attempts to quantify the entire contribution of a player’s statistics to a team’s total runs scored. It typically involves some positive value for things like hits, walks, steals, home runs, etc. and negative values for outs, caught stealing and GIDP.
Bay had a down year due to injury. You can’t point to 2007 and say see he’s already better! When Kemp hits 32 and then 35 HRs in back to back years get back to me…We can compare next year when they both play a full, healthy season.
Right on, I wouldn’t trade Kershaw for anyone its for superstar that we would control for several years CHEAPLY. That trade basically doesn’t exist. This guy will be the number one pitching prospect in the game next year. You don’t trade someone like him.
*sorry “unless” its for a superstar…
Well jspelk, thats why I included Bay’s career numbers…and yes Kemp will have to prove it. All I am saying is lets let him prove it.
2007:
Kemp
OPS+ 127
RC/27=7.2
Career:
Bay OPS+129
RC/27= 7.2
well yeah I see what your saying except shouldn’t you do a career v. career comparison instead of Bay’s whole career v. one partial year from Kemp? Im not doubting that he’s good or that he will improve, just that he’s already better than Bay. Detractors of the kids would say they have performed well in limited duty but their numbers would probably decrease over the course of a full season. I am not one of these people but I see the argument. What do you think?
well I could do that but really not enough data on Kemp…but fair is fair. Bay was a monster as a rookie, winning rookie of the year in 120 games. He is a great player..I am not taking anything away from him and I would love to have him in LF. Not at Matt Kemp’s exspense though which was the point I was trying to make.
I agree with that argument BTW. I also think that’s a generalization. Some will get figured out and some will figure them out even more….
Many people here have said(i agree), how can some of these guys get in a rythym when Grady is shuffling line ups and they don’t know where they will be hitting and if they are in the lineup that day.
It really seemed to effect GONZO but not the others as much so there is hope that they can improve.
Attitude aside, I have not seen someone come up with Kemp’s all around ability in while as a Dodger. Mondy comes to mind..
For sake of numbers:
Kemps career OPS+ is 112 and RC is 6.3
Like many of you do, I like to comment on the information I am receiving. Id like to compare our team with other teams here. Now mind you this is my own comparisome and I’m not asking anyone to see anything my way. I’m also not positively sure that I am right. First off, I’ll start from the top:******The Bullpen**above average,******The Starting Pitching**average******The Defense**below average******The Offense**below average*******The MGR**below average******The GM**below average. I don’t want to use good or bad because I’m comparing, not judging. But of course you can use your on judgement on that. Looking at the above, there are other teams I would say have an above average bullpen. I would think most teams have average starting pitching, but some have above. Below average defense can always be supported by above average offense. A below average offense will always magnify a below average defense. In the case of Jeff Kent, his offense by far outweighs his defense(I hope we have him for another year). Pierre’s speed does not outweigh his poor throwing arm and lack of power, that has to be compansated for. I will not make any further comments on our MGR & our GM, I just hope to God they know were they made their mistakes and correct them. To MESSAGEBEARER I just want you to know I’m still enjoying your comments.******Please excuse the structure or format, I guess you would call it, that I’m using here because that is the only way I know how to use my keyboard.
I think Kemp may have a better career for Bay but this second, Bay is a more complete player. I’m not saying Kemp won’t improve, because I don’t think anyone doubts he will, I’m just saying Kemp hasn’t learned to do some of the little things that come with major league experience. Let’s not forget this is still a 22 year old kid. Pierreseast what do you mean “Please excuse the structure or format”? Don’t worry about structure and format this is a dodger blog not an english paper. lol
*then not for
WOW!!!! I just realized Wilson ‘.194’ Betemit’s OPS with us was over .850!!!!! Thanks Ned…
J Bay hit almost .100 points below his career SLG % this year, he’s had some fine seasons but that is a big red flag in my book. He was also about .050 points below his career OBP and about .035 points below his career BA and thats all with LaRoche hitting behind him this season. I’d take Kemp and his learning curve above Bay, I’d almost be willing to bet that Kemp will outpoduce Bay next season, especially when you factor in the line-up around them and speed.
I am already looking forward to next April lol. All I can say to Ned now is “you’ve got your work cut out for you now buddy to redeem yourself. These next 5-6 months better be productive ones or else its your ***.”
Kemp had 33 less hits in 246 fewer ABs than Bay this season.
I don’t know about that charris. Bay had an injury plagued season, personally I think Bay will have better numbers then Kemp next season. I think some of you are expecting Kemp to put up MVP numbers right away and it doesn’t always work that way. I just hope there aren’t any Dodger fans dissapointed with .280 20hr 75rbi next year. I’m not trying to be pessamistic I’m just thinking about how hard it is to hit .340(like some of you expect him to do) for a whole season.
Charris, no question Kemp had a productive couple of months and Bay had a down season. I’m not saying Bay will be the MVP or anything, I’m just saying don’t put Kemp in the hall of fame just yet.
Good points jungar.
I think Bay had knee problems or something of the sort. I expect him to rebound but who knows? He wasn’t exactly hitting in a powerhouse lineup either.
Its so funny, with Ned its like your happy when he doesn’t do something horribly wrong. You never expect him to actually do something productive. I was so happy this trading deadline because we did relatively nothing. Btw, if Betemit ever amounts to ANYTHING I’ll eat my hat.
*amounts to anthing being a starting everyday player, clearly he has value as a spot starter and pinch hitter.
swood, Kemp would have to hit .134 in an additional 246 ABs to be at Bay’s 07 level. Look what guys like Cabrerra, Howard, Braun and Fielder have done since they’ve been pulled up, its not unrealistic to think that Kemp can hit close to .300 with 25+ HRs next season, which is what Bay pretty much averages over his career.
I’m not at all saying that Kemp CAN’T hit .300 with 25+ HR’s I’m just saying I don’t think Dodger fans should be EXPECTING that from him. I have on this blog alone seen numerous lineups that have Kemp hitting 40+ HRs. I just think thats expecting a little much from a 22 year old who has only a couple months of MLB experience…
Charris do you check that email on a daily basis? Because if you do I will send you an email from the address ryanwood@cox.net.
I don’t regularly check it, mainly because of the mass spam that blogging here creates but if you want to send me something go ahead and let me know and I’ll check it.
OK Charris check it in about 15 min. and you will have an email from ryanwood@cox.net
i’d bet someone a hundred dollars that Ned Colletti has no Idea what OPS stands for
I’ll bet he think it stands for Openly Paying for S***.
hahaha.
or Over Paying for uhhh Stuff
OK charris I sent it to you. Max did you get the email I sent you and like 5 other people?
All Washington teams $uck:
Redskins $uck
Wiz $uck
Nats $uck
I guess the only ok team is G’Town bball.
swood, I read it and replied buddy.
Pierre..very nice post BTW.
I would be happy with .280 20 80 from Kemp next year. I think thats a little low but only time will tell.
That’s Ethier basically at his best case.
Kemp still has alot to learn, I don’t want anyone thinking I don’t see his shortcomings, it’s just that his pluses far outweigh the minuses.
Attitude aside because really there has been enough smoke about that u can’t rule out a fire but considering where the smoke has come from I feel pretty good that Kemp will be just fine. Cocky is bad, but it’s also good.
Beliving in your own ability is half the ballgame.
The thing about Kemp to me is that Gonzo and others are far worse when it comes to not being classy. If kemp came out today and said….
“We went away from a game plan. We had no game plan.
“If you look at our record, we had the best record in the National League at the All-Star break. And we continued playing a lot of old guys, and the old guys, they did well. There’s no doubt these are all great young players. They were hitting .270, .280. Nomar, Gonzo, Kent, Juan Pierre – they’re all great players, but we weren’t winning games. They’re getting three and four hits, but you’re not winning games.
You guys would rip him apart and Ned would be trade him tommorrow for Nefi Perez.
to add onto what max’s been saying…i say Kemp, Bills, Kershaw go no where for no one.
Concerning the possibility of Cabrerra, the Miami Herald had this to say:
“The Marlins, who are very open to making a major trade, have made pitching their clear-cut No. 1 priority but also will try to sign a veteran free agent catcher who works well with a young staff.
Unless payroll rises much beyond $30 million — nothing’s set but the Marlins have given no reason to expect that — it will be difficult to keep both Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, instead of one — and upgrade elsewhere. They figure to combine for nearly $20 million in arbitration, with Cabrera projected for $11 million.
So if one of the two is dealt, who’s more likely? Depends on the offers.”
So I really don’t believe it’s Russell Martin or bust. The Marlins will probably look to reaquire LoDuca as a free agent.
I said before, it will take quality young pitching to get Cabrerra…lots of it!
If I were the Marlins, I commit to Cabrera and buy out some arbitration/FA years right now, avoiding arbitration. Maybe 5/80 or so? I trade a fast-fading Dontrelle Willis while someone still thinks he has value for whatever I can get and save the $9 millon he might get in arbitration. I’ll bet Dusty Baker thinks Dontrelle is the cat’s meow….
I forgot – I’d insist that Cabrera’s contract include a weight clause. If he gets any tubbier, he’ll stop being a 3B even sooner than I think he will.
Hey Gonzo, FYI: If you are signed to a 1 year deal and a 22 year old stud playing behind you is hitting .340 you’re gonna lose some playing time, I don’t care who you are. $uck it up and become a ‘team player’. Oh…thats right… its all about Gonzo right… who cares about the team, or the fans or the city… as long as Gonzo’s happy…
VOTE FOR THE ALL-TIME LA DODGER TEAM – voting for 2B open now:
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071012&content_id=2262767&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la
True Blue L.A. has a nice link to a “list sorted by OPS+”
http://www.truebluela.com/story/2007/10/16/18217/968#commenttop
This is probably not the best time for Jeff Kent to win a popularity contest! Davey Lopes anyone?
Loaiza, while never being anything close to a Cy Young Candidate (thanks for the sarcasm swood), has had a decent career and could definately be a serviceable number 5 starter. You cant judge the guy on 7 starts after coming back from injury…
And i dont care what the Marlins said in June, frankly i dont even care what the Marlins say ever. they have proven to be a classless organization who has ALWAYS been more than willing to sell their young talent when value was good. Im sure the Marlins would turn down a good trade just because Martin wasnt involved— its not done that way….
And, Swoood, i have some problems with your good and bad list of Colletti moves:
Nomar- terrible this year, maybe unwise to offer an extension, but we dont make the playoffs last year without him. Hard sell to just let him walk after what he did for us last year.
Loaiza- the jury is simply still out. And its just money so who really cares.
Mueller- Its not like Colletti knew he was going to break down after 45 games.
Schmidt- the jury is still out. 3 year contract was a great move no matter how you look at it.
Dioner- Depo trade buddy.
Hendy, Hall, Lugo- we got them for nothing but spare parts.
Betemit- again, we got him for an alcoholic who is now out of the game. In return we got a solid middle reliever.
Not saying Colletti is great, but your list is weaksauce.
Is anybody on here as ready to see the list of names from the Mitchell investigations as I am?
Yes, I would like to see that list of names. Wondering whether Gonzo and Nomar are on the list. It should at least be informative as to who should be avoided in our off-season moves, if Colletti would pay any attention to that.
I don’t know if Nomar is on it but I’d have to say by looking at Gonzo’s numbers and how they were below agerage and all of a sudden they were above agerage and he had that ONE BIG year that he’s on the list. I just don’t know if baseball will tell the whole truth. I’m wondering if they may leave some names off due to the reputation some players have as being “nice guys” and “true professionals” as some people consider them? I just hope for once baseball holds nothing back and reveals everything no matter who the players are. I’d be willing to bet that there will be more pitchers on the list than position players. But nonetheless I’m ready to see it.
Red sox fans are snapping. I love it….
LOL
J.D. Drew needs to attach straw to the head of his bat to compliment his “swing of depression” so he can save the umpire the trouble of bending over to brush off the plate.
Great line from the post on Dodger Thoughts today:
“I don’t think there’s much the Rockies did during the last offseason to make themselves NL champs other than to recognize the value in what they had. Most of my waking thoughts about the Dodgers form a silent prayer that they somehow do just that.”
I thought this was also a great dodgerthoughts line from Jon…Pretty much sums up how I feel…
“I should be more excited about the 2008 Dodgers. In one sense, I can’t wait for the season to start. But I sort of feel like I’m stuck in line at the DMV, waiting to take a driving test that I should pass, but you never know …”
Ewk- I would love to hear you try to justify the Pierre trade. The jury is not still out on Loaiza, Hendy or Schmidt. They all $uck and if you can’t see that then you don’t know anything about baseball. Fact is Loaiza will more then likely have a Tomko like season next year and Schmidt will probably get injured three starts into the year AGAIN! As for Hendy he was never good so I don’t understand why you said the jury is still out on him… When I said Navarro I was referring to Ned trading him for Hendy and Hall, not Depo aquiring him from AZ. My point is Ned is not a good GM most of his moves hurt us more then they help us. I could do a better job then hes doing now. Swood for GM in ’08!!!!!!!
We should have had the most talent in the NL last year, just look at our payroll and farm system, it is inexcusable that we played this season with our major contributors supposed to be players such as Gonzo, Pierre, Hendy, Tomko, Loaiza, Nomar etc……. I hate to keep harping on this but seriously now this guy is a joke. If he doesn’t have a very productive next 6 months I am going to stop buying Dodger gear/tickets. Maybe if we all did that it would get Mr. McCourt’s attention…
I wish enough people would do that swood. It’s just like gas, if everybody stopped buying gas for a couple of days then something would change.
Cameron, I’m not going to do it yet because we’ve only had one down year. But if Ned has an offseason like the last one it will start to look pretty tempting…
I think you can forget about Cabrera. Knowing Ned he will be more interested in the fast fading D-Train. I’m calling it right now- Kemp and LaRoche for D-Train. Kemp and LaRoche within 3 years both go on to be MVP canidates and Willis gets hurt and never throws 50 innings in a season. Hey with Ned as GM, anythings possible.
Well, if you could read you would see that i did not say the jury is still out on Hendy… And, we have a reliever in Hendy who is still on the team, for a catcher that never did anything for us. It wasnt a sparkling move, but you can hardly say it was bad.
And i am not going to justify the Pierre trade, because A.) It wasnt a trade– he was aFA. B.) It was a move made out of desperation and necessity. We couldnt go into the season with one proven outfielder in Ethier. It was made right after Drew opted out, and we were scrambling. An outfield of Pierre, Ethier, Kemp, in my opinion, is not bad at all…
That deal will never happen Swood. Pass me whatever you are smoking
Ewk how old are you? The team could have signed Gary Matthews Jr. He hit over .300 this year for anaheim. Come on anyone would have been better then Pierre…
When Pierre was signed Matthews was still a FA. But we left it to Ned to make another brilliant move… Ewk I was trying to make a joke with the D-Train thing…
Im actually 15– whats your point? I was just trying to make a joke…
Hm… Matthews hit .252 this year for Anaheim– how old are you? Too young to read perhaps? And you have no idea why we didnt sign Matthews– it might not have had anything to do with Ned..
Matthews is simply much less proven than Pierre, and it would have been the case of giving the guy a big contract after his walk year and then he blows– see your lover Beltre for precedence..
swood
did u get my email?
No jan I didn’t. I did see your post a couple of days ago however about how I don’t know very much about Dodger baseball.
Jan I just checked my e-mail and its not there. Did you send it to my swood address or ryanwood address?
swood where are you from?
Report: KOBE TO WIZARDS for Arenas and Butler. YESSSSSSSS!!!!! Wiz all the way baby!!!!
cameron I live about 5 miles outside of Washington DC… In Virginia, right near RFK stadium if you know where that is.
Cameron are you from Georgia like your cousin? Do you look like Brox?
where did you hear about the kobe deal
Yankees conclude meetings in FLA, no decision made yet on Torre.
yeah we grew up about 100 yards from each other. we look alike in the face but our bodies are no where alike.
The Kobe deal was just kind of an inside joke between me and Jan. He knows I am a HUGE Wiz fan and I know he is a HUGE Laker fan and Kobe fan.
i got ya.
Cameron have you ever asked your cousin if any players or any front office people ever read this blog?
Jan hasn’t responded to my post yet… he must have gone to play some nintendo baseball with Grady lol
No we never talk about stuff like that. I’m sure some probably do but I’m not 100% sure.
Wow cameron you are so lucky to have a dodger star as your cousin. Do me a favor, next time you see Brox ask him about the blog. I hope Ned reads it, maybe my posts will motivate him. lol
It’s pretty cool I guess, but in the end he’s still the same JB he’s always been. Only difference now is I’m watching him play instead of playing with him.
Cameron I want to thank you for a couple of days ago you put people in there place when they were ripping me and saying I knew nothing about baseball when I wasn’t even there. You were the only one who stood up for me so thank you.
i sent it in that account ur using rayt now…
Mr. Bus PLEASE: Trade Kobe to the Wiz!!!! You can have Arenas and Butler but just give us Kobe.
swood
i sent it in that account ur using rayt now…
and i sent it using my van_19_cute@yahoo.com
I can’t get on my swood account right now Jan. Please send it to ryanwood@cox.net. That is the only working email I have right now.
oh im just going to say it in this blog…
i just want to apologize if i offended u…
It’s ok Jan. I wasn’t that offended. I was just kind of shocked that you said that after I sent that email to you and a couple of other people thanking you for giving me a good time this season.
*a good time talking about the dodgers
actually i didn’t get the email u sent me…
and i really didn’t mean to say that…
i know that u have alot of knowledge about baseball and alot of people here in the blog will agree with that…
it’s just a joke…
and to hurt camerons feelings…
any way… i would like to apologize to cameron too…
Its ok Jan. I’m sure cameron forgives you too. He was making some strange posts…
I might have sent it to your van 19 address or maybe your jan dodgers address, I don’t remember but I’m positive I sent it to one of them.
where did u get the Kobe arenas, butler trade? no way that’s going to happen.. lol
I just made it up. Everybody in the DC area wants Kobe to come here. Although he wouldn’t help our weakness at Center. If the Wiz could have gotten 2 $hits from Brendan Haywood last year they would have contended in the eastern conference. I think Wiz will win it all this year though. GO WIZ!!!!!!
it’s not in my jan_dodgers…
it’s not in my van_19 either
what’s that email all about? is it a top secret? LOL
can u send it again into my van_19_cute@yahoo.com account?
Jan its just about how much I enjoyed talking to you, diehard, pierreseast, charris etc. about the dodgers this season. It also had a url link to a small pic of me in it.
the lakers and the wiz have the same problem… defense and the center position…
Jan, Bynum is a pretty good center. He’s alot better then Haywood is…
if u want to send it to me again, it would be wonderful.
i enjoy talking baseball with you too…
ok Jan I will send it to you again from ryanwood@cox.net. Check your van email in about 15 min.
bynum is no help so far…
he will be after 2 years from now when he is fully develop…
ok… tnx!
OK jan it is sent to van 19.
I think Kobe is the 2nd best player in the NBA behind only LeBron.
tnx…
u really love to have beltre back… LOL
i would love to have AROD…
Kobe just 2nd?
come on now ryan…
Kobe is the best player in the NBA this days…
Hello everyone, Swood the Wizards, please.
Calauto… do you follow basketball?
Yes Jan I would REALLY love to have Beltre back. He is the one player who really got me into the Dodgers. He will always be my favorite, no matter who he plays for. I like Lebron better, I think he is a more complete player, not just a scorer.
Yes I do.
LeBron is the A-Rod of basketball.
Calauto who do you like better Lebron or Kobe?
Calauto, I’ve been saying it for two years, if we could get a flaming bag of **** this year from Haywood the Wiz would be really good. The problem is defense and where that all starts is the center position with other big men scoring. Lakers have some of the same problems…
i like lebron too…
but let’s face it… Kobe is much better…
Lebron is a complete player… i agree…
but he needs to score more…
I do like Bynum though, he is developing into a very good scoring big man. He still needs to improve his defense though I think… I like the Clippers better then the Lakers though. Elton Brand is the man(d).
Lebron was 5th in scoring last year, behind Kobe, Carmelo, Gilbert(my boy), and Wade(barely). 5th in scoring isn’t that bad jan considering where his assists and rebound numbers were…
I like Kevin G., G. Arenas.
Swood, I’ll trade you Kwame for Arenas.
Boston’s big 3 will be tough. Garnett, Pierce, and Allen. They are the class of the east right now I think.
I wouldn’t trade 2 $hits for Kwame. He $ucked for the Wiz. Number 1 overall pick and never did anything.
Come on Swood, take him back please.
I honestly would take Beltre over A-Rod.
OK I will take him along with Kobe… you guys can have Haywood.
Kobe and Kwame for Gilbert straight up.
OK I gotta go play Grady in some nintendo baseball lol. peace everybody.
i don’t like Cook!
he is lazy in defense…
and i notice that if Kobe isn’t in the floor he wants to take alot of shots…
throw in Cook…
cook, kwame for arenas… LOL
Gonzo can kiss the fattest part of my .***. I hate that stupid whiner.
jan is all good.
swood- no problem man, anytime.
“We were hoping at some point in the season we’d have [Miller and Elbert] to fall back on,” Honeycutt said.
Though Billingsley took charge of a starting spot, his absence in the bullpen left short-handed a club that had only four complete games.
“We didn’t really fill that role until we got Proctor,” Honeycutt said. “That hole cost us games. People don’t realize how huge that role is when you have starters going only five innings. Losing Brazoban and Tsao, looking back, we probably had to overuse [Jonathan] Broxton and Joe [Beimel], and it showed the last few weeks of the season.”
The preliminary rotation for next year would include Penny, Lowe and Billingsley. Loaiza has a guaranteed contract for 2008, and the club hopes desperately that he shows up at Spring Training healthier and more effective than the pitcher who went 1-4 with an 8.34 ERA after he was claimed off waivers.
Then there’s Schmidt, signed to a $47 million contract despite whispers about his health. He’ll be 35 next season and coming off major surgery to repair three damaged areas in his shoulder. There’s no way the club can count on him as it plans for 2008, no matter how much money Schmidt makes. If he bounces back, it’ll be a bonus.
Yes, fans may have blasted the organization for not pursuing some of the top free agents, like the Yankees and Red Sox have done, but there was a reason, and it has proven to work.
“For every good move there is a bad move,” said Shapiro. ” I think that’s the art of it, you can’t be scared to make a bad call. We try to build our team through the draft or international signings and possibly a trade.
“Free agency is inherently inefficient. You sign older players who are mostly declining, and if we have to go that way situationally to compete with the Red Sox, the Yankees and the Dodgers, we’re going to lose. If we go that way, we do it to supplement, and that is it. That’s why so many of our guys have come through our farm system. As long as you are focused at bringing in guys at the entry level like we have, you’ll do fine.”
The pitching situation is in shambles…the only sure things for next year are Lowe, Penny and Billingsley…two Depo guys and a Logan White kid.
I’d still like to trade Penny though.
I’d trade Penny as well, but it would HAVE to be for a quality pitcher and a quality player, correct? If we trade him, we have no one to fill his spot in the rotation unless we trade for a pitcher.
So then the question becomes what pitcher could you trade Penny for that would outproduce him?
Maybe something with the Twins for Santana— is that what you;re thinking?
Penny and Pierre and we pay the majority of his contract– Minnesota would possibly love that considering the departure of Hunter.
I dunno max, I would be all for a Penny trade (his trade value is really high after this season) if we had some kind of depth in our rotation, but with so many questions marks (Schmidt, Loaiza, Wolf) I fear it could be a death blow for our ’08 season. I don’t want Hendrickson in the rotation next year.
I really don’t think Penny’s trade value is that high to begin with so Santana is out of the question. Penny is kind of weird in the sense that he’s good but at the same time is very unreliable and yet predictable but he still has some upside.
I really wouldn’t know want to trade him for because his return value is so had to figure out.
we shouldn’t have to depend on Hendrickson and other crappy pitchers next year if Ned really wants to follow through with his youth movement thing. McDonald probably will start the year at triple A and if anyone is the rotation falters or gets hurt i’d like to hope he would get the first chance to fill the void but we are talking about Ned Colletti so i wouldn’t be surprised if we signed David Wells again sometime next year.
hard to figure out*
Disagree with you on the value of Penny at the moment. I think we could do him Penny Abreu for Santana honestly… I mean, what Minnesota really has nothing to lose from that trade and Johan is walking away in a year regardless.
we’d be lucky to get an A prospect for penny let alone the best pitcher in the whole league.
we’ve almost got too many prospects to trade any of the older guys for more prospects and we’ve got so much money tied up into useless players that we cant trade for someone to replace them.
God i really wish we didn’t sign Juan Pierre. Cuz I’d trade Brad Penny and Andy LARoche to the Blue Jays for Alex Rios in a second.
Alex Rios is Matt Kemp 2 years from now. An outfield of Either, Rios and Kemp would be monstrous.
Yeah max I get the feeling that Hendrickson (if re-signed) would get the job and have to fail over and over and over…again before they gave McDonald a fair shot. This management has shown a propensity to make such bad decisions time and time again.
I understand we control Penny through 2009 and Lowe only through 2008. Lowe has already expressed his intention to leave us for free agency. I can see him being traded by the July deadline, because otherwise we’ll get nothing for him. I suppose I’d look at trading Penny, but we would need to get a younger but proven starting pitcher like Gorzellany (not necessarily him) and then we need to get at least a top pitching prospect to anticipate Lowe leaving. My problem with either of those is that I don’t trust Colletti’s or Grady’s judgment on what we get in return.
yeah Charris…management has shot this team in the foot so many times…the decision to put Billingsley in the bullpen and go with Bomko and Hendrickson might have cost us a playoff stop alone.
Why do you guys want Penny gone? He was forth in the league in wins and only had 4 loses, he was third in ERA only .002 away from Webb and second place and he led the team in starts and innings pitched. So why do you want to trade him?
spot* ugh i can’t type today. I’ve been up all night writing a paper for my english class so my brain is fried right now!
Brad Penny is the Los Angeles Dodgers in a nutsack. starts out strong, fades when it matters and is usually overrated.
Penny is too valuable to be traded right now. Unless we are definitely out of it by July, we shouldn’t trade Lowe either. Pitchers are an ultra-valuable commodity, and we shouldn’t be looking to trade 2 of our best 4-5 pitchers (lowe, bills, penny, saito, brox). If Lowe decides to sign elsewhere, we’d get the 1st round draft pick of the team that signs him (or a supplemental 1st rounder), and Logan White has turned those picks to gold over the last 5+ years.
too add:
We were 23-10 when Penny started. Without him we would have been in last place.
Glad to see Honeycutt man up and admit that they overused some of the pitchers.
i would trade brad penny.
if the right option was to come up…like i said…if the Blue Jays made Alex Rios available I’d be telling Brad to learn some French.
I think we are missing something here from the Schmidt article (and geez, I can’t believe how much we are paying him to do nothing in 2007 and not count on anything from him in 2008). Honeycutt said that they were counting on minor leaguers to help them down the road. Thats a good thing! Elbert’s injury especially killed us this year, because even if he wasn’t ready he had the talent to really help us. Instead we had to go get Loiza and Wells and pay $ to do so. Of course I hope Elbert can return to form. Hopefully this year they will keep in mind we have potentialy him and McDonald lying around as viable options.
I don’t think we should trade Penny, nor did I ever. He is signed reasonably through 2009. He is an above average pitcher. Look at the middling pitchers getting ridiculous contracts (Marquis, Meche, Pienero just now etc). We should keep Penny! If we are out of it this July by all means trade Lowe. He’ll prob. have another good year and we could get something good for him from a contender.
I think you go out and get a bat and prove to Lowe and Penny that the Dodgers mean business so that they both resign. A possible future rotation of:
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Elbert
Kershaw
McDonald
At least on of the last 3 won’t make it but that leaves you with a pretty good rotation for years to come if you can resign Lowe and Penny.
a 6 man rotation?
Lowe has said he’d test the market.
I said at least 1 of the 3 won’t make it so that puts you at 5.
ugh theres no way i would resign lowe. He doesn’t want to be here anymore, he’s old, he has hip problems. It was a shrewd contract by (gasp!) Depo and we should be glad we got solid numbers out of him like we did.
Lowe and Penny both have helped Brox and Bills out alot since they been in the show.
I think Depo would have gotten more respect from most of you guys (not me to be honest) if he would have resigned Beltre. If we went 71-91 with Beltre it would have been fine for most fans…
I thught this article was interesting. If you want him back, please take him.
I though this article was interesting. Go ahead and take him back if you want. lol
http://www.tiny.cc/CArES
i have no idea how the **** that double talk just happened. sorry.
Since we’re looking short on starting pitchers, I’m suggesting that we let Meloan get back to that category, especially if he’s going back to Vegas at the start of the season. He was a starter before being converted to relief. With possibly Brazoban and Tsao coming back, we’re not short in the relief department. Why not see what Meloan’s got.
From what I hear Meloan is suppose to take Broxton’s role once Brox becomes the closer. Meloan and Broxton are suppose to be the 1-2 punch of the future.
bear..u really think that Braz and Tsao will make it out of spring traing healthy?
We’ve got a lot of question marks with a lot of our pitchers health.
Its funny how people complain about Beltre being overpaid, which he is. Beltre had better numbers than anyone on the Dodgers in 2007. And now everyone wants to throw zillions at ARod? I’d rather we just kept Beltre…
I’d like to see if McDonald can work out of the pen in long relief or another minor leaguer instead of paying lurch 3 million. Good pens are built cheaply. Lurch shouldn’t even be on this team anymore.
I guess everybody has seen that Torre rejected the Yankees offer?
joe torre for manager in 2008!!
With Torre and Leo Mazzoni(sp?) available, I can’t see how McCourt could pass up the chance to upgrade in the managerial department.
Plus, it’s been almost two years since Frank made some heads roll, he’s due, and we all know it’d be for a worthy cause.
Nothing personal against Grady and Rick, I just think it’d be what’s best for the team in the long run. $8-9 mil a year for Torre would probably go a lot farther than $30+ million a year for A-Rod.
(Of course, I wouldn’t look that gifthorse in the mouth, either, as long as the Giants/Angels don’t land him.)
And Congratulations on the new addition to your family, Josh. Hope you’re not reading this, and taking a well-deserved break.
Torre has led 200 million dollar payrolls to the playoffs..wow..call me impressed. 7 straight early playoff exits with some of the best teams in baseball.
Before his 200 million dollar payrolls he led his 15 teams above a 500 winning percentage 5 times.
First place one time.
In 15 seasons.
Players win games, not managers..IMO
So when you circle back around and say well Torres recent teams didnt have the pitching or that his recent teams had mercenaries.. I say exactly, players win not managers.
Mazzoni is a different story, he actually teachs, that would be completely awesome.
I think a young hungry manager with a young hungry team is the way to go. Someone with discipline, work ethic…Kirk Gibson would be my choice. Bringing in Torrre to me is the same as bringing in Schmidt, Nomar, Gonzo, Kent…the game is passing them by…
EXACTLY!
No on Torre!
Mazzoni would be an improvement to Honeycutt.
Gibson would be my favorite manager choice.
Of course, this ownership is mesmerized by stadium rather than team improvements; therefore, I’m not expecting anything good to happen for 2008.
Where were the Yanks before Torre?? He brought national league style ball to the Yanks when they were winning. Its not Torre’s fault that they Signed guys like R.Johnson,Clemens, Pavano, the lefty Japanesse pitcher, their weak bullpen, Giambi after roids, Damon as a slow slap hitter. All these problems magnifie in the playoffs when your playing good teams every day.
Grittle had the HIGHEST payroll in the national league and finished in FOURTH PLACE!!!!! I don’t care who replaces grittle anyone is an improvement.
Where are the Cardinals, Mets and Braves since Torre left those teams.
Better or worse?
Getting rid of Grady would be fine by me, but Torre is more of the same. A manger for veterans a players manager..
Torre has a .471 winning percentage (across 1900 games) when he’s managing a team that does not have the highest payroll in baseball.
I would be more concerned about CF, SP, 3B than Manager.
Now if Torre would bring us A-rod then make it so McCourt.
I am more concerned about the guys making the decisions on a CF,3B, and SP. What is going to change?? All of a sudden grittle is going to have confidence in the young guys? Is he going to sit Pierre or move him to left? Are we going to stop picking up guys like Loiaza,Wells,Blowberto,Saenz,Tomko,Hendy,proctor?? instead of letting our young guys develope grittle is going to completely change his style and be a national league manager? Torre managed a lot of bad teams. Torre had the higest payroll in the American League and made the playoffs 12 straight years. Grittle had the HIGHEST payroll in the National League and finished in FOURTH!!!! FOURTH freakin place!!! why because he refused to sit gonzo,Pierre, or Nomar. He kept bringing in guys like Hendy,blowberto, and Saenz!!By the time he played the guys he should’ve played it was too late.
GRITTLE IS THE WORST MANAGER in THE HISTORY of BASEBALL. We are a laghing stock all over the country because we still have tha JOKE as our manager. I’m not a big Torre guy but he’s 180 degree improvement over grady.
Sit Pierre opening day and be done with his stupid streak…then maybe Grady won’t be afraid to manage the diminutive center fielder. Juan says it’s all about giving his best and not letting the fans down, so what’s to lose on opening day? I’m sure it’s not about the streak??!?!?!?
Diehard it wasn’t Grady who brought in Loaiza, Hendy, Tomko etc. but Grady was still wrong to play them(even if we was under pressure to play them from the front office). I still think that alot of the blame needs to go to Colletti for bringing these guys in and not using the payroll effectively.Proctor isn’t that bad… other then that I agree with what you said.
If anything Hiring Torre would probably give the Dodgers a little boost in the credibility department…Ever since the fox noise days the Dodgers have been a joke to many baseball people.
Since this team is more concerned about it’s public image then winning IT WOULD BE A GOOD PR MOVE TO HIRE TORRE…and of course anyone is better then Grady.
Then again Torre and Grady are similar but if i had to choose I’d take Torre over Grady
The Dodgers doesn’t need a new manager…
what we need is good players or one great player…
i agree anyone is better than grady but i think we still need to give grady another chance and Ned should give him ARod!
but Jungar is rayt… if signing Torre means getting ARod, it would be great..
What has Grady done to deserve another chance?
What I don’t get is why the Dodgers would even risk brining back Ned and Grady. Last year was such a disaster and what makes McCourt think it won’t happen again?
Torre wouldn’t be my first choice to replace Grady but he wouldn’t be my last.
And like i said…If i had to choose between Torre and Grady I’d take Torre in a heartbeat.
Can you guys please check the stats you put up before you put them ALL IN CAPS AND ****. the dodgers have the second highest payroll in the majors— get it right if you are going to use it at justification and PUT IN HUGE CAPS BECAUSE EVERYONE MUST SEE YOUR INCORRECT INFORMATION.
Very simply Max, he did a good job managing us in 2006– turned us around in a significant way… You could fire him this year, its not like it would bother me, but players win and lose games and 2 years isnt exactly a long evaluation period- especially when one of those years was good.
what would grady do with those kind of players…
every manager deserves good players…
grady doesn’t have that!
all the dodgers have are potentials and old slow veterans…
he needs another chance…! and he should have great players so he knows what kind of lineup he will put every game…
Grady had good players in boston…and a hall of fame pitcher too.
max in case u notice we are talking about the dodgers here…
i don’t care about what happen in boston…
i only care what happens with the dodgers…
He needs to have good players now…
good players are good playesr
anywhere and everywhere.
Don’t worry Jan…you’ll learn in time that Grady just isn’t the type of manager to take teams over the top. Nor is our GM the type of GM that would either. Or our owner for that matter.
max i know what ur saying…
but we haven’t seen grady managing the dodgers with good players…
i just wish next year we have a powerbat and another SP then u can tell me that he is the worst manager if he still can’t get as a ring!
Grittle had the HIGHEST payroll in the National League and finished in FOURTH!!!!
ewk before you try to bash me why don’t you read what I put?? The Dodgers had the highest payroll in the NL right? I know the Red Sox and Yankees have higher payrolls.
No team wins without good management top to bottom. Grady style is not suited for the Dodgers or anyone we need a NL manager!!!!!That has passion anyone but grady!!
actually i am aware that grady isn’t that good…
but still players are the one who wins a ring…
all im saying is he needs one more chance and he needs good players…
its pathetic that our team has the highest payroll.
Grady just isn’t the right type of manager for our team or any team. He’s is a bumbling idiot. He should go tend to his cotton fields and ride his motorcycle. For him being such a clubhouse type manager he really screwed up last year.
yeah players win the rings…managers lose them.
van what manager puts bills in the bullpen something he’s never done and put Tomko then Hendy in the rotation for that long? What about Nomar in the THREE hole until the middle of June until Loney forced his way into the line up. Who else waits that long to bench Betemit? What about Pierre playing 162 games with guys deserving to play? what about Gonzo hitting Fifth everytime he played no matter what.I could keep going and going but I’m tired of typing. I hate grittle and Ned. Promote Logan White let him choose a manager.
yeah players win the rings…managers lose them.
Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | October 19, 2007 03:30 PM
Never has anyone posted a better quote!!!
Grady’s and Ned’s stupid personnel decisions cost us the playoffs last year. It’s that simple…not the players. We had a good group of young talented players that if given playing time by management would have taken us there. Instead we relied on old, washed up ****** players.
actually i am aware that grady isn’t that good…
but still players are the one who wins a ring…
all im saying is he needs one more chance and he needs good players…
Posted by: jan_dodgers@yahoo.com | October 19, 2007 03:27 PM
WOW jan!!!!!
Loney,Martin,Kemp,Ethier,Bills,Brox,Saito, those our young guys worth probably 5 million TOTAL! Those are guys I’ll take on my team anyday don’t tell us grady didn’t have the players.
Bombko and Hendrickson lost almost 20 games combined for us. 20! Billingsley wouldn’t have lost 20 games last year…the injury to Wolf hurt I will agree to that but still Brett Tomko had no right being in that Rotation before Billingsley did.
The decision to stick Loney down in triple A after he destroyed it a year ago and hit almost .500 in Spring Training just so Nomar could become a black hole in the 3 spot in the lineup for almost half the season.
You can’t defend Ned and Grady. They must go.
Saito is not young but cheap…
diehard…
those are potential players…
martin is the only proven position player so far!
as u can see… all those kids play alot of games down the stretch but they are still losing games…
so don’t go telling me that they are good players…
they are still a player…! not good not great! just players!
The dodgers need a superstar that’s what im trying to say!
Mets had the highest NL payroll in 2007
1 Yankees $195,229,045
2 Red Sox $143,526,214
3 Mets $117,915,819
4 White Sox $109,680,167
5 Angels $109,251,333
6 Dodgers $108,704,524
7 Mariners $106,516,833
8 Cubs $99,937,000
9 Tigers $95,180,369
10 Orioles $95,107,807
11 Giants $90,469,056
12 Cardinals $90,286,823
13 Braves $89,492,685
14 Phillies $89,368,214
15 Astros $87,759,500
The Rockies and D-backs combined Payroll is LESS than our total payroll.
Guys Torre> Grady but not by much. He’s still a old school, veteran loving type who can’t manage a pitching staff. Obviously he has intelligence which Grady lacks but his philosophies are not all that different. We need some new blood around here.
Grady could not help the team he was given, but he COULD have stuck to a lineup but never did. He could have taken Tomko/Lurch out of the rotation sooner. He also lost control of the clubhouse after he was supposed to be such a great players manager. I don’t think the players, young or old, respect him. That’s not good. I see no reason why he’s being given a second chance (and esp. not Ned) but I guess McCourt is too lazy to look for replacements, or just doesn’t care. Its ironic that 2005 was met with a complete overhaul and yet this year, after spending 100 mill plus, we finish in fourth place amid a fighting clubhouse, and both Grady and Ned are allowed to remain.
those players you are talking about Jan were the only reason we weren’t in last place last year…if you actually LOOKED at the numbers it was our “proven” players that cost us down the stretch. The only decent pitcher we had down the stretch was Billingsley and everyone of our young kids out hit the old farts during september. Penny, Lowe, Loaiza, Wells, Gonzo, Kent, Nomar cost us down the stretch…all proven players.
We didn’t start playing the young guys until Colorado swept us with one week left in the season. C’mon Jan you forgot that quickly.
Kent only cost us on defense…and with his mouth.
max
i know…
im not saying the dodgers are the worst team!
i know those kids are the reason we weren’t in last place…
i love to watch those kids!
what im trying to say is they are not yet proven themseleves to be a good player…
yeah they can play but that’s all about what u can say and what u can see…
again! all im trying to say is we need a superstar! a great player that can lead the dodgers to a ring!
I could see Kent,Grady,Ned,Gonzo reading motorcycle magazines in the coaches office drinking and smoking cigars while Ethier,Kemp,Loney, and Martin take extra BP.
C’mon Jan who was Cleveland or Colorado’s superstar before the season started? stars are made and we have a couple diamonds in the rough with the right manager.
We didn’t start playing the young guys until Colorado swept us with one week left in the season. C’mon Jan you forgot that quickly.
Posted by: diehardblu@yahoo.com | October 19, 2007 03:54 PM
what are you talking about?
Kemp is playing… Loney is playing… ethier is playing!
they are playing but not everyday! coz of freaking gonzo and “out machine” JP!
im not trashing the kids! i love to see them grow and be a good or a great player!
again all im saying is we need a great player that can lead is to a ring! LOL
Those guys weren’t playing enough!!! who’s fault was that???
Colorado has a superstar but they just don’t get much attention!
holliday!
There is nothing worse than working for a company (dodgers) that don’t promote from within. It fractured the club house. It also makes us look stupid. It also prevents us from gettting truly impactful players. I sure would love to throw the 120 million we gave Schmidt, Nomar, Pierre towards someone we actually want on our team.
Now Holliday is a stud so is Sizemore but you couldn’t call them superstars in spring training.
MARTIN is my superstar!!!
tell me whose fault was that?
it’s not grady if u ask me! why?
coz grady is still here!
it just proves you that it is managements decision(not grady) to play those veterans!
come to think of it! if he really made it worst by not playing the kids why is he still a dodger? coz it’s not his decision! he is a freaking puppet!
what?
holliday is not a superstar from the beggining og last season?
maybe to you!
he is a superstar from the beggining he just doesn’t get much attention!
of*
Die hard…2006 numbers: all better than anything we have. Pretty much studs……the oldest being 29..all 4 hit at least 6 more homeruns than any dodger in 2006 or 2007. f-ing pathetic.
Holliday
.326/.387/.586/.973
Martinez
.316/.391/.465/.856
Hafner
.308/.439/.659/1.097
Sizemore
.290/.375/.533/.907
we must have different defintions of superstars to me it’s a top 5 player and before the seaon I don’t think he was a top 5 player now I do.
But I’ll take Laroche a third if they just let him have his at bats I think he’ll do the job.
Point is if Grady is a puppet then he defitnetly must go why give him another year?
better or younger than Kemp,Loney, or Martin???
diehard
i don’t really look at those players in the top 5 or top 10 coz it’s not peoples choice it’s media choice! and there are favoritism there!
unfortunately for Holliday his team isn’t getting any attention!
Grady’s two biggest crimes were committed in ST—letting Tomko be in the rotation and not moving Nomar to third. Not sure what influence Ned had on these the decisions but nonetheless he deserves to go based on what he didn’t do in ST aside from his headscratchers during the regular season.
I was talking about my top five. I watch a ton of baseball I have a top five. In spring training I wouldn’t have considered Holliday now I would. your smarter he is a stud.
i see…
.293 .374 .469 .843 (martin in 07)
VM’s last three seasons. We can only hope Martin does this..
.305 .378 .475 .853
.316 .391 .465 .856
.301 .374 .505 .879
Hafner to me is one of the 5 best hitters in baseball…
305 .408 .595 1.003
308 .439 .659 1.097
his 2 seasons prior to this above..and we can only hope and pray Loney or kemp could ever reach this level of offensive production.
And Holidays career line in 4 seasons
.319/.380/.556..935
is better than what Kemp/Loney did in a half season last year
.342/.373/.521/.894 kemp
.331/.381/.538/.919 loney
I agree that there are ballpark and grady factors that are factoring in all of this..but still..
But I do think all three have the potential, thats for sure.
aside from Siezmore all those guys are in the prime years already 27-years old. Not really fair to compare them to first and second year players. Again this goes back to aquiring players in their prime instead of stacking your roster with only guys at the tail end of their careers and first/second year players. Yeah I realize pierre/furcal are still in their prime but they were pretty awful this year.
agreed..point was..they are good. real good.
Grittle is terrible and Ned isn’t far behind. With these guys running the show nothing will be different next year. Torre is not right for this club, We need a guy with more fire and passion. That said I’d rather have Torre than Grady. I’d rather have anybody other than Grady.
The big news in N.Y. ofcourse as we all know is Joe Torre. I can’t imagine what it will be like reading about the Yankees in the sport section of the Daily News (N.Y.), without seeing Torre’s name in almost every paragraph. I’ve gotten use to it over the past 12 years. In this particular paper they seem to to dwell mostly on what the GM & MGR are doing or saying everyday, unlike on this website you hardly here from the GM & MGR. Also, even though Steinbrener has not been around much lately I still know more about his whereabouts, then I do about McCourt. I said it before that Torre & Little are basically the same type of MGR. I don’t think that it would make that much of a difference if Torre managed the Dodgers. I think a more firey type would be good for the team. Right now I’m just hoping that both our GM & MGR see the errors of their way and try not to make the same mistakes. Especially our GM. That said, I think that a good hitting coach, would make the biggest difference along with a proven power hitter, unless we want to wait for Russell, Loney, Kemp & Ethier to come into, as they say, THEIR OWN. I really don’t think we can rely on Kent for too much longer because it seems he’s not getting along with the kids, according to what I’ve been reading, but I hope we have him for at least another year. I don’t care who wins ALCS, but I can’t wait for World Series to begin.
I would love to have Grady gone as much as any of you but he’s back for this year so just forget about it… More importantly, we can’t go into the season with Nomar or LaRoche at 3B or with Loaiza in the rotation. Let’s hope one of the minor league pitchers can mature and become major league ready fast because we will suffer with Loaiza out there every 5th day. As for 3B, somebody needs to be signed there, Nomar is a utility player at best at this stage of his career, and LaRoche looked far from ready this past September so I hope we can get ARod. The Pierre signing is one that will continue to be a thorn in our side for the next few years…
Pierre, nice post man.
we must have different defintions of superstars to me it’s a top 5 player
Posted by: diehardblu@yahoo.com | October 19, 2007 04:10 PM
What!? You called Kevin Kouzmanoff a superstar a couple weeks ago…
SWOOD & OTHERS: You’re right about Pierre. Now if Furcal comes back strong and ankle healed they better find more use for Pierre. Otherwise if Furcal starts stealing bases at a greater rate, he could render Pierre as almost unneeded. I know I never get a reaction to this but it makes me think of my broken lineup of dropping Furcal to the fifth spot in the lineup, because of his speed and the fact that he does possess some inconsistent HR power. Pierre is a good lead off hitter and that is why I call it a broken lineup. The Dodgers could have two minny lineups with two speedy lead off batters. I don’t see having two lead off type hitters batting back to back. I guess there is some wrong in my suggestion but somebody better tell me what it is.
I did not say Kouzmanoff was a ‘superstar’ I said he had agreat year for having such a horrible start. I would love if the Dodgers gave a LaRoche all of next year just like the Pads gave Kouz all year. That’s what I said a couple of weeks ago.
I remember the 03 marlins firing their manager two weeks into the season and then winning it all so I will keep calling for grady’s head until its chopped off!!!
by the way how is your hand swood are you out of a cast yet?? I started coaching High School and were already in Fall ball you start to swing a bat yet?
J.D. F-en DREW!!!
Nice choke last night by the Indians pitchers.
Given the impressive won/loss records that Sabathia and Carmona put together in the regular season, they’ve both looked like total choke artists against the Sox. I’m personally hoping that their third stringer can do tonight what the other two couldn’t, because I have no love for the Red Sox.
fliegel@ptd.net..”Grittle is terrible and Ned isn’t far behind. With these guys running the show nothing will be different next year….WHY
do you continue to REPEAT the same ****, Day after Day ,after day. Is your vocabulary, that limited. you sound like a broken record. Please add something NEW…..Anything !!! Get off it already…….
It’s the ROX VS BOSOX it will be very interesting. Maybe the Rox will pave the way.
I’m all for the Rockies in this WS. If they can but beat Beckett one time, it’s possible, and they deserve it.
If Atkins becomes a FA, I hope we take a look at him. I know there’s always the comparison of Rockies’ players splits at home vs. on the road, but Atkins after a slower start drove in a lot of runs, and I think he’s the kind of proven younger player who could provide stability for us at third. It’s not that I don’t like LaRoche, but a young player with back problems scares me, and we could get some good trading value from LaRoche for a starting pitcher, which we’re going to need.
pat25rod@sbcglobal.net If you bothered to read the whole post you might have noticed it was more about the Torre rumor and not just the incompetence of Ned and Grittle. As for the repetition about Ned and Grittle , it’s my opinion and it won’t change until they’re gone or if they miraculously stumble into winning. If you don’t like reading it , then don’t.
pat25rod@sbcglobal.net And yes my vocabulary is extremely limited. I guess I’m just not as smart as you. Is that new enough for you?
I still can’t believe the Rockies are in the Fall Classic. I’d love to think about the Dodgers being the next Rocks (building from within) but with Ned and Grady running the show we won’t ever get there.
Logan White’s name, keeps cropping up. Let’s remember, that Logan DOES NOT have any GM experience. When it comes time to negotiate ANY deal, with those sharpies out there.They will walk all over him. Being a capable GM, goes way beyond, Logan’s talents.
Logan is sharp, only in what he does, ONLY……
Logan is sharp, only in what he does, ONLY……
Posted by: pat25rod@sbcglobal.net | October 22, 2007 11:49 AM
WHY???? How can you assume that?? I’m glad Colletti has experience to sign guys like Pierre,Schmidt,Wells,Loiaza. You don’t think Logan White knows their value and knows what to give them. The biggest thing for a GM is to evaluate the market and know how much we should give guys. Colletti obviously can’t recognize talent I’ll take White over anyone a guy that has made so many right decisions compared to a guy (Colletti) who can’t make the right decision.
Leaving Logan aside, what do you think that the other GM’s have been doing with Colletti – they have been and will continue to walk all over him, because he has no ability as a GM, PERIOD.
pat25rod@sbcglobal.net
How do you know Logan will get run over? Like you said he’s never been a GM. You’ve got to start somewhere. Every GM has to be a GM for the first time at some point. Logan is one of the best in the business at judging talent. Do you think he would have given Pierre the kind of money Ned gave him knowing is talents? I highly doubt it. Most of the kids are Logan’s kids so I’d say let him put the talent around them that he thinks will take them over the top. We’ve already seen that Ned can’t judge talent or put the right pieces in place so why not give Logan a shot?
Well White’s already interviewed for the Astros Gm position and probably will be asked by other orgs too so apparently some people think he could make a go I od GM. Peronally I would hope we find a better GM and keep Logan as our scouting director/assistant GM since he’s so good at running the draft. We get the 15th pick next year and its protected from FA signings!
pat25rod@sbcglobal.net Ned was never a GM before and look how good he’s done. 🙂 That doesn’t mean Logan White will be better or worse, there are never any guarantees in baseball. At least Logan can evaluate talent, as for his negotiating skills, no one knows.
Right now we have Colletti & Little. I think all we can do is hope they know where they made their mistakes and this will make them wiser & better the next time an opportunity to make a decision comes along. I am absolutely sure that ownership is aware of it’s problems especially if their object, besides making money, is to win. TIME WILL TEll.
For me, the unforgivable Grady Little sin this past season was allowing the vets to create friction due to loss of playing time. I can fill out a line-up card as all of you can. But a manager makes his name communicating with players and having them believe in his “system.” Seems nobody bought into Grady. And I truly think he allowed Pierre’s streak to dictate his thinking as well. Little has got to show MUCH MORE leadership than I’ve seen to this point…hard-nosed leadership, if need be.
“hard-nosed leadership” would only create more tension Kahliforni.. Bottomline is that tension is inevitable when a team is losing after it was winning, and when there are high expectations. A manager cannot physically control what players do and say– he can implore them to keep everything in house, which im sure he did, but players will do what they want regardless. The only that could prevent the tension is winning and making the playoffs because you look stupid complaining at that point…
A manager needs to let a player know what his long-range plan is. I don’t think Grady gets high marks for that. Imploring a player to keep grievances “in house” is not a solution…it’s a weak band-aid aimed at de-fanging the prying media. It doesn’t address the root cause of dissension amongst players. I think a lot of Dodgers were in the dark last season as to just what Grady had in mind for the long haul. It takes guts to tell a veteran that perhaps the rookie gives the team a better chance to win, or vice versa. That’s what I mean by hard-nosed…not yelling and screaming. How often did you hear a player say he didn’t know this or that until he checked out the line-up card. Johnny Damon is out as Yankees center fielder but he’s “on-board” for the team. That’s because Torre is a better manager of men. Who cares about the hit and run? We’re talking managing people.
Please, thats assuming there is complete certainty as to how the players themselves are going to perform. We went into this season with a lot of unproven, talented rookies, and older, more established veterans. The root cause of dissension is losing, bottomline. “In the Dark”— where are you coming up with hog wash. I’m sure Gonzo was really unsure of the long term when we signed him to a one ytear contract. your place in the lineup should not dictate how you swing the bad, and players who say that are making excuses. And you have a short memory, bc Damon was demanding to be traded mid season BC he lost his everyday job, and only shutup once the Yanks went on a great run in the second half. Your post is ridiculous– Grady telling the older players the younger kids they are better IS WHAT CAUSED THEM TO GET AGITATED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I think we are going to have to count on what we had this year for next year. We will have to hope Kemp, Ethier, Martin etc. continue to develop if we want to make the playoffs. Ned’s horrible signings(Pierre, Loaiza, Schmidt etc.) have handcuffed us so much that it will be hard to sign a big name free agent because they don’t have a postition to play. The only postition we have a chance to sign a big name at is 3B because Nomar and LaRoche are obviously not the answer. The outfield will be Kemp, Pierre and Ethier, and the rest of the infield and pitching staff will look much the same as last year. Man Ned’s signings/trades have hurt us in so many ways and aren’t going to stop…
The root cause of dissension is losing and winning cures all. What a beautiful, simple world. And your place in the line-up shouldn’t dictate how you swing the bat. Another utopian concept. I feel better already. You’re right. Grady did a **** of a job…
I’ve been trying to follow up, and I have four questions that are food for thought:
1) When people refer to Matt Kemp, why have they been saying things like “putting aside his attitude”? Basically, all the evidence of a “bad attitude” is a possible insinuation from Jeff Kent, who may or may not have been referring to Matt Kemp. It’s not like Jeff Kent has historically been known as a clubhouse leader. And by all appearances, Kemp is a nice guy. Confident–perhaps cocky, but if you’re the best athlete on a major league baseball team, you might get that way. And, apparently, Kemp and Russell Martin are good friends, and everyone in the world agrees that Russell Martin has one of the best attitudes in the game!
2) When referring to the kids, and comparing them to other players (Alex Rios, Jason Bay, etc.) why are people assuming that they will perform worse than they did this year? Loney and Kemp both played about a half-season or more, and are both 23 years old. I am going to go with a bit of truthiness over numbers, but isn’t it fair to say that rookies who are 23 are more likely to play better than worse??? I admit that it’s tough to do better than hitting .320+ and .340+ for Loney and Kemp respectively, and there are certainly one-hit wonders and guys who never live up to their promise (Todd Hollandsworth, Chris Sabo, etc.), but doesn’t history suggest that a 23-year old rookie will be better in the future?
3) Assume, for the moment, that Ned and Grady return to the club next season. It’s a pretty safe assumption at this point, because Ned has said pretty clearly that Grady will be back, and I am pretty sure that McCourt has voiced support for Ned. And the reality is that I don’t think anyone here THINKS that they will be gone, regardless of how much they may WANT them to be gone. Given that, if the Dodgers made no major moves this off-season (maybe picked up a 5th starter or re-signed Wolf) where do you think they would finish?
My opinion is that the offense will be better (see my point above about 23-year old rookies, plus I assume Furcal will be back to form), the pitching is likely to be just as good (the bullpen may even be deeper, and with a little luck with the starting rotation, it could be great). And I would stack up our players position-by-position with the Rockies. So there is no reason that the Dodgers shouldn’t win the division, and the National League Pennant in that scenario.
4) Given the above–that Ned and Grady are still around, and whatever your assessment of the Dodger chances should they essentially sit tight–would you rather that the Dodgers not make any big moves or make a big move that Ned comes up with? No mushy answers here–no saying I’d like us to sign A-Rod but nothing else. I would go for that too, but it’s a hypothetical, and you have to either allow Ned a free hand or a straight-jacket.
My answer on this is probably obvious from the above. I think that the Dodgers have all the pieces necessary to win the Pennant, so I would say don’t make a move. Even giving Ned the benefit of the doubt, there are really only a handful (actually, maybe less) of realistic moves which would be good for the team. So I’m rooting for no big move to be made.
And that’s really the situation. A-Rod at third might be great. But anything that would move Martin, Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, Broxton, Saito, or Kershaw would be unequivicoally bad. Those guys should be untouchable. And anything moving Ethier, Abreu, LaRoche, Penny, Meloan, McDonald is probably not going to be worth it. And if as a result the lineup is Pierre, Furcal, Kemp, Kent, Loney, Martin, Ethier, Nomar, and the pitcher, there is not much that would make me happier when Spring Training opens.
leekfink—
I don’t even think cockiness was exactly the issue. Kent hinted that some of the kids were uncoachable, that they didn’t want to learn, and they didn’t respect Kent or what he had to teach. If that is true, its unacceptable, and hopefully all that will be resolved by ST whether Kent is here or not. Its a two way street. The vets did not lead or extend themselves or embrace the kids and the kids basically ignord the vets. That’s how its being portrayed.
Sophomore slump? Hollandsworth is one example, but there are plenty of others. It isn’t unreasonable to expect improvement. The young guys improved alot this year, a very good sign.
Im not fan of this management team. With the team as currently constructed without any huge moves I don’t think we win the division.
I think we need to improve defense. The Rockies made this a priority last ST and we should do. Ive seen boneheaded plays from EVERY member of this team this year. If they can tighten up the defense (and getting rid of pierre would help a ton) I think our team will really improve. Maybe different coaches would help also.
A great way to improve Pierre’s defense is to move him to left. His range is fine, but its the 1-3 on a single that kills us, and if it still happens when he is playing LF than we should should just DFA. That being said, I would be 100% fine with shipping out Pierre, eating most of the contract, and signing Rowand. Furcal’s defense is solid, Nomar/LaRoche are solid- i think Nomar would improve, and LaRoche isnt known to be a good defensive player, Loney is a stud, and many of those boneheaded plays came from Gonzo. I’d love to get stronger, but the biggest and most glaring weakness is Kent and we might just have to live with it for another year.
That being said, we can absolutely win the Pennant next year without making any major moves. If the kids play like they can everyday, and Nomar shows he can still get it done we will be very good. Resigning Wolf for a reasonable price is a very good idea, and if you can get a good 3B you go after it, but Garrett Atkins is not the answer. (but is he a FA??or a trade candidate) Either way, if Rockies win the WS i doubt he is going anywhere…
I’d be fine with that lineup on opening day leekfink too, as long as our staff is settled and healthy.
leekfink with the stephen colbert truthiness reference!!!!
I think the Dodgers have alot of question marks going into 2008. Here are a few off the top of my head. Note that these are as things stand now.
1.(IF)Can Nomar or Laroche stay healthy and be productive for an entire season to hold down 3B? Will Furcal be healthy? Who do you prep to take over for Kent after next year?(Abreu- can he stay healthy? Hu- do you want him at second or have him take over for Furcal at the end of his contract? DY- that’d be my pick but some say he can’t play defense. Unless he’s changed since double-a he can get the job done. He can’t be worse than Kent.)
2.(SP)Will Lowe bounce back after a down season and will hitters begin to figure Bills out? Can Penny dominate for another season? Who will be the back end of our rotation?
3.(BP)Who will be the long reliever? Can Broxton and Saito stay dominate? Saito isn’t a kid and Broxton was overused in ’07.
4.(OF)What is Pierre going to do or better yet what are we going to do with Pierre? To me he’s only a pinch runner. He has a great attitude and a big heart but his physical talent is small. Is Matt Kemp the real deal? We’ve only had limited opportunities to see him. He was hurt to begin the season so health could be an issue. Who do you keep as the 4th outfielder?(Repko or DY) Personally I’d have Repko as my 4th outfielder and platoon DY at 2B.
5.(Prospects)Who do you trade? Players with some big league experience, some with none or a mixture of both. You can’t keep everybody. We need obvious help at the big league level so who do you trade to fill the needs?
To me we have a lot of questions that have to be answered going into next season. 2008 might not be as glamorous as alot of people think.
Cameronwalden24: I’ve never knew anyone in my whole lifetime that could know the answers to the questions you asked above. If anybody thinks they know the answers, then I think they either are geniouses or are immortal. Also I can’t figure out how some of you can predict a pennant, after how the second half of the ’07 season turned out? I can’t say, If this happens we will win. Don’t forget a lot depends are the other 29 teams or at lease the other 15 teams in the N.L.
pierreseastmeetswest: You know what players like A-Rod, Howard, Utley, Hunter, Cabrera, Ortiz, Manny, Beckett, Oswalt, Peavy, Jenks, Wagner, Rivera, ect. will bring to the table year in and year out. Nobody knows what the Dodgers players are going to do. Alot of people are thinking that we should win the pennant with what we’ve got. What do we have? Kent and Furcal are the only 2 players that we have that have had above average careers. All I’m saying is that nobody needs to expect great things from the Dodgers in the near future.(Meaning the next 2-3 years)
To EWK216 & Leekfink.:::: If you are saying that if the Dodgers stand pat, they can take the pennant. I felt the same way at the start of the season. But don’t you take in consideration, the way the Rockies have finished up? or for that matter how the D’backs and Padres played most of the season? All I can say if the Dodgers improve over last year and the rest of the division have been playing over their heads lately, then we stand a good chance, but otherwise Who really knows? As a matter of fact what happens if the Giants show up we an entirely new look? I know I sound pessimestic but I think it’s only reality.
Cameron::: I understood perfectly what you said I was refering to the questions. I’m saying if we knew the answers we might as well start celebrating or just give up right now. But let me say that I hope must of them will be answered by the end of spring or as early as possible.
pierreseastmeetswest: I agree. I think the Giants will be better next year. How much better, I don’t know. They’re kinda like the Dodgers, they got alot of good young talent. How good that talent is, once again, I don’t know, but it’s better than the old guys they’ve got now.
Yes and since the D’backs & Rockies built themseves up so quickly along with some other teams around baseball, you have to think of it. But ofcourse there are other things to keep in mind.
Not only do we have to worry about the west, we still have to play teams like the Braves, Mets, Pills, Brewers, Cards, Cubs ect. throughout the course of the season.
jspelk2–That is probably a good clarification about Matt Kemp. I still think that the “problem” may be overblown–Kent has been pretty consistent in not taking on a mentoring/teaching role. Which is OK, you don’t have to, even if you’re a HOF-bound veteran. But you should not complain when they don’t learn from you. That being said, I could imagine Kemp being harder to coach than others–Jordan and Kobe are examples of players that were hard to coach early in their career. When you get the right coach, the uncoachable player becomes great (like Jordan), and gets everyone else to follow the coach. That being said, I think that even Grady can coach Kemp. But we’ll see.
I also agree that the defense needs work. But ths skills are all in place. Ethier is probably our best outfielder–strong arm, good range, good feel. Kemp has the best tools, so it’s just putting them in place. He’s made mistakes, but as long as he can learn from them, he can be a great outfielder. Pierre in center has no arm, but certainly has range, and while early in the season he seemed to have trouble judging fly balls, in the second half, he was fine (except for the one lost in the sun in Chicago). Loney is a Gold Glove waiting to happen. A healthy Furcal is gold glove-caliber (though, with many very good shortstops, he’ll never win it). Nomar at third used to be a solid shortstop, so should play well. LaRoche, if he is at third, is an unknown. Assuming Kent returns, his range was never great, and has been reduced with age. But he seems to always make the plays that he can get to. And Martin behind the plate seems likely to get better (esp. with he and Loney working on that pick-off move). So they can be good, if the coaching staff focuses on fundamentals during Spring Training (I’ve been talking about fundamentals for a long time).
Sophomore slumps happen, sometimes (of course, Martin, for instance, only got better). But my point is more broadly that when looking at guys like Kemp and Loney (and Martin, Ethier and Bills) who have put in a long stretch in the majors (not just a hot week after a call-up), the better bet is to think that they will be better in 2 years or 5 years than they are now.
Pierreastmeetswest–I think that the team could well win the Pennant if they stood pat. It takes a little bit of good (not even great) coaching (working on fundamentals, discipline at the plate, aggressiveness on the basepaths), the kids to produce like they have been and, and just a little luck with the pitching.
We can surely take into account what the Rockies did, but the reality is that the Dodgers should have been able to do the same thing. On September 15, the Dodgers had just won thier 79th game of the season, and their fourth straight game against the top two teams in the division. They were gearing up for four games against the Rockies, who were then in fourth place, 3 games behind the Dodgers. From there, the Rockies went 13-1 to win a spot in the one-game playoff against the Padres. The Dodgers dropped 11 of 14 to barely finish above .500. If the Dodgers had rattled off the stretch that the Rockies did, they would have won the NL West. And frankly, it’s hard to understand what happened to the team. Certainly, the Dodgers and the Rockies had the same personnel on the 15th as they had 2 weeks earlier and 2 weeks later, but they just went in completely different direcions. And some of thtat is luck, some is injury, some is things coming together for the Rockies, while things fell apart for the Dodgers. And maybe it was the clubhouse problems. But, fundamentally, it could have been the Dodgers, and it could be next year.
Not that there are things we can do in the off-season that will give us a better chance. But, my earlier post was based on the hypothetical, which is would you rather trust the team we have now or trust Ned to make the moves to make a better team. Ned might go out and have a great off-season, but even if you don’t dislike Ned (and, as I have said before, I don’t dislike him–at least for now), there are so few good realistic moves to be had in the off-season, that I would rather stand pat then see if we made the right ones.
Of course, off-season moves will almost surely be made, be they big or small. But I still hope to see mostly the same team on the field.
Leekfink: IF ***two letters one word. The Rockies did* the Dodgers didn’t. I think the whole difference was in the offense. I don’t know maybe they just were too anxious. There was a lot of first ball swinging. As a whole they did not get deep in the count. They often didn’t take advantage when the opposing pitcher was wild or not getting the ball over. Pitchers seem to dominate them. They seemed to be hitting the pitcher’s pitch and didn’t know their own pitch or what to look for and even sometimes where to hit it. They hit out of sync and left too many runners stranded. I think this happened too often down the stretch. It seemed the exact opposite with the Rockies. Yes the defense was not the best but I think sometimes our best hitters made most of the errors, or at least it seem like that. Good run scoring teams make up for poor defense. I think If (there’s that word again) the offense improves via free agency, trade or better coaching or combination of the above we will compete again. How well we do ALSO depends on how well the other teams do.
FOR GET A-ROD WHO NEEDS ONE SUPERSTAR AT 35 MILLION A YEAR. HE WOULD BE A CANCER IN THE CLUB HOUSE. LETS JUST GO OUT AN SPEND 35 MILLION ON TWO THER STARS OR MAYBE THREE.
BUT TO PAY 35 MILLION JUST ON ONE PLAYER. THAT IS INSANE. BORAS COMENTED HOW A-ROD WOULD EVALUATE HIS DECISION ON WHAT IS BEST FOR HIS FAMILY. I GUESS 25 MILLION A YEAR GOT OLD FOR HIS FAMILY THAT THEY WANT 35 MILLION.
SCREW THAT A-ROD AND SCREW BORAS. BORAS IS A VAMPIRE JUST TRYING TO **** SOME MONEY OUT OF THESE BALL CLUBS.
35 MILLION SO THAT THEY CAN BOOST UP THE PRICES ON PARKING, FOOD, AND TICKETS. THAT IS BULL.
carcyn: I couldn’t agree more. You can get 2 or maybe 3 good players for what you would have to give A-Rod. Baseball needs a salary cap but that will never happen because the union is too strong. But more than that, we need the owners to get together and grow some cods and throw everything out the window and say no to big contracts. Personally I think players in every sport should be paid on performance. Throw the contracts out the window and have performance based salaries. You almost can’t afford to go to a game because prices for everything are through the roof because they have to pay these people ridiculous amounts of money. I understand baseball is entertainment just like all sports but I really don’t think a player should have a contract over $10 million. The game is suppose to be about the fans. You should be able to get a hot dog and chips and a couple drinks for you and your family without spending $50. The salaries these guys make is a joke.
Oh yeah I forgot about parking. They want you to spend an arm and a leg to buy tickets to come to the game and then they pull some ******** with the “Oh yeah you have to pay to park so you can watch the game”. Don’t they thinks it’s enough to pay the outragous ticket prices without throwing parking in there?
The problem is, maybe you or me would get two/three good players for that 35 million but our GM will give us Juan Pierre (8 million), Nomar (10 million) Gonzo (8 million) and take your pick on over the hill pitchers (Schmidt 15 million, Loazia 8 million, Wolf 8 million).
I’d just assume take the one player we would actually want.
jungar: With our GM then yeah, I agree 100%. Get A-Rod. I’m just saying in general nobody should be paid that.
carcyn i don’t agree with that…
first becoz the dodgers would need to trade their young position players in order to get 2-3 great players in their prime… and let’s be honest! who are you going to trade? LOney? Kemp? Ethier? so that’s not going to happen…(period)
and if ur talking about getting a Jones/Hunter/Rowand caliber for our OF… that’s not going to happen either…
why? coz the truth is JP isn’t going to be traded or bench!
and ethier and Kemp are set to play the OF!
The problem of the dodgers is 3B!
The answer for that is to sign ARod or just let the fading carne asada guy Nomar or LaRoche at 3B!
The dodgers don’t need anyone else!
The answer to the questions are clear…
if ARod opts out w/c i think he will… the dodgers need to get him or else the team isn’t going to make the playoffs for 2 more years!
Oh….And I agree spending 35 million on one player is absurd and ridicoulous and I hope we don’t do it. I would prefer that JP is moved off the roster we sign Jones/Hunter and then use the rest of that money on pitching.
Can anyone tell me how Franklin Gutierrez got away from us? Did we trade him or did the rule 5 take affect? I wish we still had him.
Cleveland got Gutierrez in the Bradley trade, so essentially he’s in Cleveland because Ethier is a Dodger.
Thanks
I disagree with CARCYN, if they have to spend 35 million I rather see it go on one great player. First of all we only need one player anyway. I say do as I do, by a ticket for the game and eat away from the ball park. Also try to get to the park the cheepest way possible. I hope there is some mass transportation that cost less than driving. That said I don’t think A-Rod is going to opt out. I think Boras is bluffing. If he does I’d be shock to see McCourt shell out 35 million on any player. If McCourt did then I know he is serious about winning.By the way I’m rooting for the Rockies. I usually go with the NL team, unless it’s the Giants or the Cardinals, because they are way up their in pennants & world series victories.
I too try and eat away from the park pierreseastmeetswest but that’s not how baseball is suppose to be. Baseball is suppose to be a game that you take your family too and eat hotdogs and peanuts and enjoy the atmosphere. Unless you are well off then it’s almost impossible to enjoy a game that way anymore.
You’re right. Cameron, but I go to see the game only and I’ve stopped eating or driving to the game. I either eat before the game or after, depending on the start time. I just can’t afford it.
Not that anybody cares but I’ll tell you what bothers me the most about baseball today. These players get paid so much money but yet they can’t hustle. They don’t run out ground balls, they don’t run the bases hard and most of them don’t dive. They get a sprained ankel and go on the DL. Man, baseball today seems more like a beauty padgent than a sport. They get paid all that money and then complain about stuff. Man if you roll an ankel tap that **** up and get back out there. They hit around 4 times a game but running 4 times seems like to much of a task for todays players. That’s why I like players like Russell Martin, Dustin Pedroia, Craig Biggio, ect. because they play hard and leave the game with dirt on them. They don’t complain when they get nicked up, they **** it up and go back out there.
I agree 100% You hear more complaints about players not hustling and yet it seems like there are more players on the DL.
To me that’s what has made players like Biggio, Maddux, Glavin, Smoltz, Ripken, ect. so great and respectable. They show up everyday ready to play. Hurt or not there in the line-up ready to produce. When Maddux was still in Atlanta he said on an interview that when he realized that he was going to hurt no matter what he did and that he had to play through it no matter what he became a better player. I hope this doesn’t offend anybody but it’s like players act like the people on welfare in parts. They want to complain about this and that and I can’t do this or that but yet they still expect to get paid. If I don’t show up at my job ready to produce then I don’t get paid so why should they get paid if they don’t work?
Ticket, concession and parking prices are set at what the market will bear. Those that don’t want to pay the going rate don’t go, but there are plenty other that will, esp. here in L.A. where we have an overabundance of people with far too much disposable income. (And just who are these people sporting $99 Nomar jerseys in the cheap seats? [At least that’s a one-time cost.]) Players will continue to get seemingly ridiculously large contracts as long as the owners have ridiculously large revenue sources. They all get paid because we fans watch on TV and buy tickets and merchandise.
I don’t see 3B as a problem. My eyes, and more importantly various credible, independent scouting reports, all say that Andy LaRoche is a capable 3B. I doubt he will ever need a defensive caddy like Garrett Atkins does.
Career AAA batting:
Name PA 2B 3B HR BB K BA OBP SLG OPS
LaRoche 541 32 2 28 64 74 .315 .399 .572 .971
Loney 667 52 3 9 57 82 .341 .394 .482 .876
That said, ARod’s bat is a huge improvement for the Dodgers (or anyone else) no matter who else is on the team. But ARod (who I don’t think will get $35 million per) is the only potentially available 3B that doesn’t cost talent to acquire for whom I move LaRoche aside. (I like Miguel Cabrera, but I think he’s fast eating his way out of 3B and is probably a so-so 1B [or crummy LF] in a season or two. Plus he will cost a bundle of prospects.)
(Yes, I also worry about LaRoche’s back and wonder if this is a harbinger of his future. God, please, don’t let him be the next Not-Iron Mike Marshall.)
McCourt bought the team for 430 million. 4 years and one playoff win later the dodgers according to Forbes:
Franchise Value:
Los Angeles Dodgers ($632 million)
The Dodgers can afford Arod, and if he opts out they should get him just to prove their serious about wanting to win. That and we really could use a proven power hitter in his prime. As far as hustle goes Russ and JP really bust it out on the field. The only problem with Pierre is that his talent is limited and I doubt that we can ever win anything as long as he’s one of our outfielders.
I wouldn’t say we won’t or can’t win with Pierre because you have to remember he does have 1 ring already. The thing with Pierre is that you have to be able to cover him up and we don’t have enough to cover him up right now.
Owning the Dodger franchise is the next thing to a guaranteed investment. Why worry about winning anything when you and the Mrs. can play socialites in the heady atmosphere of near-Hollywood. I believe they’re basically disengaged from the make-up of the team and willing to leave it to Colletti and Grady. It wouldn’t be so bad or unusual, if Colletti and Grady had any modern baseball sense. They both live and manage in the past, and we’re not going anywhere with this management, or possibly with this ownership.
One of the good thing about signing a guy like Arod is it hopefully keeps Ned away from trades. We all know what he’s capable of, and Arod might prevent that. I hear the Yanks are interviewing Girardi among others for the managerial vacancy. I wish that was the Dodgers.
messagebear, agreed. McCourt is more interested in making Dodger Stadium a theme park then he is in winning, which he proved by brining back Colletti and Grady. If nexts years team starts playing like this years played, and there is no indication that either Ned or Grady will be fired, I will start boycotting Dodgers tickets, jerseys, hats etc. and hope that some of you join me. Maybe then McCourt would get the picture…
*next
GO ROCKIES!!!!!!!!
Do any of you remember in July when I said I thought the Rockies had the most talent in the division and that I thought they would make a run at the wild card…. I know Diehard remembers…
I remember you saying Hurdle was a terrible manager and Little was one of the best. Boy were you wrong about that.
watson assistant GM . what happened to NG???
AGMs are like company vice-presidents or members of the board of directors; you can have a lot of ’em.
The Dodger front office has three Senior VPs, eight VPs (including Ng, who is a VP, AGM), and three AGMs, the other AGM being Logan White, whose title is AGM, Scouting.
Lots of interesting stuff. Put me in the NO A-ROD column. I won’t argue his talent. But the price tag, via his dark-side agent, Darth Vader, just makes the whole thing unpalettable. And, as cameron said, the subsequent salary hike has sadly made all sports an experience enjoyed to the max by corporate officers and the clients they attempt to woo. When I take my nine-year-old and his little buddy to Dodger Stadium, you better believe we hit the McDonald’s on Eastern before the game! And I concur; I think that ruins the entire baseball experience!!!
The red sox are going to sweep the rockies!!!
the rockies just doesn’t have pitching…
Eric Byrnes said alot of stupid things yesterday on the pre-game show…
he said that the rockies has pitching and bullpen…
he also said that after the 1st game all the pitching match-ups are equal…
that was stupid thing to say…
yeah true the first game is no brainer with beckett pitching u know who will win the game… but the pitching match-ups just doesn’t match at all…
game 2: schilling vs. jimenez…
game 3: matsuzaka vs. Fogg…
game 4: wakefield vs. cook…
the red sox can sweep the rockies even w/o ortiz in games 3-4!
youk is on fire…
how about this lineup for the red sox in games 3-4 or 5 if the rockies can win game…
ellsbury…
Pedroia…
Youk…
Ramirez…
Lowell…
Varitek…
Drew…
Lugo…
pitching win games… everyone knows that!!!
jan_dodgers: I have to disagree with you on this one. I don’t think the Rockies will get swept. I actually like them in the next 3 games. Probably won’t happen but I like there matchups. The Rockies can hit. They knocked off the dust yesterday and I’m saying they’ll put at least a 5 spot up today. I think they win 5-4. And Wakefield isn’t even on the roster, Lester is pitching game 4.
Not to mention the Rockies bullpen has been way better than the Red Sox. The next 3 games will come down to the bullpen and I think Colorado has the upper hand in that one.
oh sorry about that… i thought wakefield is on the roster…
even if the starters struggle the red sox has a strong bullpen…
i just don’t see the rockies winning the WS!
“no match”
rockies are nothing!
i love holliday! he is a great player!
but this is WS! it’s all about experience!!!
Red Sox in 7.
ur rayt the rockies can hit!
but pitching wins ball games!!!
and the red sox has alot of good pitching ready to destroy that good offense of the rockies!!!
That I disagree with. How many teams in the past 5-6 years have won with experience? Not many. Experience is overrated. How much heart you have is what matters. Baseball is baseball, the game is played nearly the same from the time you’re 3 until whenever. Pride and heart will keep the Rockies in this until the end. The Red Sox just have a little better talent.
jan how old are you and where are you from?
we’ll see about that…
18
L.A…
but i was born in the Philippines…
cool
cool?
From the Hardball times:
Overall, Seattle actually squeezed more value out of its free agents than any other team, a factor in their fine year. Mariner free agents with positive values included Ichiro, Raul Ibanez ($8.8 million), Jose Guillen ($5 million) and Johjima ($5 million). Here is the list of the top five teams, ranked by free agent value:
SEA $25,628,277
TB $19,239,443
DET $17,130,918
CHN $15,196,158
ATL $12,864,675
Meanwhile, several teams also squandered their free agent dollars, most notably the Los Angeles Dodgers of Los Angeles.
The five worst teams in free agent Net Win Shares Value were…
LAN -$21,585,751
OAK -$19,427,113
NYA -$17,891,507
SF -$14,997,241
BAL -$14,525,942
The Dodgers free agent deals almost all tanked, including Schmidt (-$8.7 million), Brett Tomko (-$4.5 million), Rafael Furcal (-$4.4 million) and Juan Pierre (-$4.3 million). Even waiver pickup Esteban Loaiza was a negative value (-$2.5 million).
Still, the Dodgers don’t win the award for squandering the most money last year. That award goes to the Chicago White Sox, one of only two teams to post a negative Net Win Shares Value in 2007 (Houston was the other).
wasting money, putting together a team with bad team chemistry, not trusting what the orginization already has, not fostering an enviornment where young players can thrive and not defending our young developing players…keeping a manager who lost the clubhouse having 28 million worth of players knowing going in will not even hit 28 homeruns combined …gosh just go away Coletti.
I dare you guys to name one thing the “fraking” guy has done right. obvious answers dont count.
Obvious is not trading farm (from what I hear he wanted to, McCourt wouldnt let him) or trading for a Greg Maddux (dude has 5 cy youngs or whatever, a monkey knows getting him would be a good thing)
Look, I don’t mean to be an apologist for the McCourts, but I think that they have at least earned the benefit of the doubt.
We all have fond memories of the O’Malley family ownershio(except for the Brooklyn fans amongst us, who I am sure still consider Walter O’Malley the greatest villain of the 20th Century), but the O’Malley’s viewed baseball as a business. He cut Jackie Robinson’s salary in 1956, and then traded him after the season. Jackie Robinson. And he moved the team to LA when it was the most profitable franchise in the National League. And you can go through guys like Maury Wills, Don Sutton, Steve Garvey, etc. But, they won and were predictable, andcertainly loyal in some way–although players would get dumped, they were often welcomed into the organization afterwards. So it was good times.
While after a few years of Fox, anything might look good, the McCourts seem to be going back toward that. Developing young players–good. A lot of old players coming back to associate with the organization (remember how Sandy Koufax boycotted the team because Fox was so atrocious?? Ugh. He’s back at Spring Training, etc.). Yes, McCourt is focusing on stadium rennovations, but given that most ownership groups takeover and try to blackmail the city into building a new stadium at the city’s expense, that he is re-investing in the stadium is great. In 2009, Dodger Stadium will be the third oldest stadium in baseball, and he keeps improving it to last for a long time.
I know people complain about ticket and parking prices–as for parking, they managed to improve the situation quite a bit. As for ticket prices, this was the first year in maybe 10 years or more where there was not a ticket available for $6. And you could still get tickets for as low as $10. And that is after two consecutive record attendance years. If absurdly rich celebrities and entertainment studios buy incredibly expensive tickets, and there are still really affordable tickets for everyone else, then so be it. It’s the second biggest city in the country, there is going to be demand for tickets, and the market will bear a higher price. But they have managed to serve all levels.
Does McCourt care about winning? I think so. If for no other reason than winning is good for business. But I think he’s a fan and wants to win games too. He’s been at every home game I went to, and seems to be at most. If you don’t care about winning, why show up (I never saw Peter O’Malley at the games–though I think he wanted to win too, and was probably watching, it’s just I have visual proof that McCourt is watching). But other than general direction, he’s wise for not getting involved in the nitty-gritty details. You don’t want to have a Steinbrenner-like owner calling in line-up changes. Arte Moreno is the model here–he has turned over the baseball operations mostly now to Mike Scioscia, who’s the best baseball man they have. McCourt may not be doing just that, but that’s the right model (unfortunately, even if you love Grady and Ned, we simply don’t have a Mike Scioscia-type in our organization–though I doubt that McCourt would have driven him away like Fox did).
Admittedly, there is an extent to which the jury is still out, but I definitely give the ownership the benefit of the doubt.
I would love to give the ownership the benifit of the doubt but it’s hard to when your manager loses the clubhouse and you do nothing about it or when the GM blows large sums of money and nothing is done about it. Kinda hard for me to defend that. Now I do think McCourt wants to win but how bad he wants to win is a question to me.
Well Game 1 of the 2007 World Series is in the books. I certainly hope it was the eight game layoff and the pitching of Josh Beckett that did the Rox in. I hope Game 2 wakes these guys up and they play like the team that won the NL West. I hope we see the team that beat us this year. They must have a better showing and I think they will start looking better. It will make these late summer nights more meaningful. I want to be watching some of the best teams in baseball in the NL West. I feel a fine showing by the Rockies will make this last season feel a lot better knowing our team was not so bad after all. That we were beaten by good teams that are worth watching. The Red Sox are not that good and the Rox are certainly not that bad. LET’S GO ROCKIES.
Very well reasoned post, leekfink, as are yours always. I just don’t agree that the ownership or the two main managers are deserving of any benefit of the doubt. They’ve certainly spent the money compared to anyone in our division, but the lack of results points to the ineptitude of those managing this team. Fresh blood and thinking is needed here. We’re not likely to change the ownership, but the owner needs to do something to get a better result for the team that we love. Colletti and Grady are not able to do that, and their collective benefit of the doubt should have expired with the Dodgers’ hopes in 2007.
we hae our selves a rumor. espnews just reported that if the yankees don’t offer their job to girrardi, the dodgers will contact him.
lets cross our fingers.
I agree. Other than Beckett, Boston really has no pitching until you get to Papelbon. You could make a case for Okajima and Delcarmen. Yeah Schilling is a big game pitcher blah blah blah. This is 2007. He hasn’t looked all that great to me this postseason except when he faced the Angels they don’t have an offense anywhere close to the Rockies. I really think the series is pretty square except for Ramirez, Ortiz, Beckett and Papelbon.
cameron is rayt…
the question for McCourt is how bad does he want to win…?
how long will he wait to build a good team to win…?
how much money will he take to the fans before he try to build a better team?
come on Mr. McCourt give us some love!!! give us fans a better team that can compete for a ring!!!
ALL YOU GRADY HATERS!!!
THIS JUST IN!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3079140
Sources: Developing opportunity for Girardi in L.A.
ESPN.com news services
Updated: October 25, 2007, 4:24 PM ET
Comment
Joe Girardi might have an opportunity to manage in the majors in 2008 — even if he doesn’t get the Yankees’ job.
Officials familiar with Girardi’s job prospects told Buster Olney of ESPN The Magazine if the Yankees do not hire him to succeed Joe Torre, then Girardi could have a developing opportunity with the Los Angeles Dodgers.
The agent for Girardi, Steve Mandel, was asked if Girardi had been approached about a job opportunity with the Dodgers, and Mandel would not comment.
Dodgers manager Grady Little is under contract for next season after the team picked up his option for 2008 on March 7. Little also has a club option for 2009.
“Grady Little is our manager,” a Dodgers spokesperson said Thursday.
Dodgers executives could not immediately be reached for comment about Little’s status.
Girardi and Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti have known each other for almost two decades. Colletti came to know the former catcher as media relations director for the Cubs; Girardi was selected by Chicago out of Northwestern as a fifth-round pick in the 1986 amateur draft.
Teams are not allowed to make major announcements during the World Series, but if New York wanted to do so Friday, an off-day for the Series, it’s conceivable commissioner Bud Selig would give his permission.
But Hank Steinbrenner, son of owner George Steinbrenner, said New York does not intend to name a new manager before the end of the World Series. The earliest end to the Series would be Sunday.
“We’re going to honor Bud’s wishes, and that’s the bottom line,” Hank Steinbrenner said Thursday from Tampa, Fla., where he and other team executives including general manager Brian Cashman gathered to come up with a recommendation for the team’s top officials. “We’ll talk to the baseball office and see what they think.”
Hank Steinbrenner said no decision has been made from the interviewed crop of Girardi, bench coach Don Mattingly and first-base coach Tony Pena. Girardi interviewed on Monday, Mattingly on Tuesday and Pena on Wednesday.
Girardi, speaking at a charity dinner Wednesday, refused to answer any questions about the Yankees’ search.
“The only thing I’m going to comment about the Yankees situation is what I said a few days ago,” Girardi said. “I had a great interview. And it’s an honor for whoever gets that job.”
Pena has the most managerial experience of the three candidates, having led the Kansas City Royals for more than three seasons. Girardi managed the Florida Marlins in 2006, his only season in that capacity, and was named NL manager of the year. Mattingly spent the three seasons before becoming Yankees bench coach as the franchise’s hitting coach.
Torre took over for the 1996 season and led the Yankees to four World Series titles in his first five years but none since. He left after 12 seasons — and 12 postseason appearances.
The Dodgers, meanwhile, are coming off what is considered to be a disappointing season in which the team collapsed in September. Los Angeles lost 11 of their final 14 games to finish 82-80, and there was griping among younger and older Dodgers during the last weeks of the season.
Based on this ESPN story, if Girardi is hired, he’s known for developing young players and young players are known to have liked him.
Could ARod be far behind if this happens? We can dream can’t we?
I believe the Yankees are going to give the job to Mattingly in hopes that A-Rod stays because he and Mattingly are such close friends and Mattingly works out with A-Rod in the offseason.
Girardi would never happen, but it sure would be nice. I don’t even care what kind of manager he is. Its very clear that none of the players, neither young nor old, respect Grady. You can’t have a manager that the players don’t respect. The vets ran all over Grady. And yet, thats where we find ourselves. But McCourt just professed his support for his brainless duo, and theres nothing we can do. I would love to have Girardi, or just about anyone that the players can respect.
I hope someone has a brain in the Dodgers Organization. Girardi is a no brainer of a hire. Getting Girardi over Little is like getting George Clooney over Danny Bonaduce. Let’s make this happen! I am completely over the Grady Little era.
Just think how he would help Martin. Martin is already an all-star but I think Girardi could make him even better. Not to mention he handled the pitchers pretty well in Florida. We’ll soon have a young staff like the Marlins were. I think it’d be great to have him but I just don’t see it happening. I hope I’m wrong.
The talent pool for managers has never been this good. Torre, Mattingly, Girardi, Pena, etc. Even if the Dodgers were fine with Grady Little how can you not look to upgrade. We should never be in a complacent mode.
Have a great weekend guys.
MANFROMCHINA & DODGERJOELIZ:::I was just about to get ready to watch an old movie an now you two guys are making me go watch ESPN. So far I haven’t heard anything from the Dodgers and I think some people are just starting something. But I’ll go watch for a while.
Wishful thinking, but hard to believe that any changes are in order. After all, Girardi has been available to talk to about our managing position well before the Yankees interviewed him. Now the speculation says we might be interested if the Yankees don’t select him – doesn’t make sense. I bet Gibson would also have been interested if we approached him. Unfortunately McCourt is stuck on Colletti, who in turn is sticking with Grady. I’d almost like to take a chance with ANYBODY ELSE, but it won’t happen, at least not just yet.
I really think something will happen but not until after the world series is over. Colleti and Girardi have known each other for quite sometime. And I think Torre will be great here too.
Girardi would be perfect and would instantly make this team better. The young players can respect him because he actually played the game in this century, unlike some other manager who has nobodies respect and his in game decisions are terrible. If that were to happen ,I would even give Ned a pass thinking he finally saw the light.
I think the writing is on the wall. When Torre rejected the offer the Yanks made him, within a couple of hours the first place they had Torre going was the Dodgers. I really think Ned will hire someone younger, he almost needs too.
hello fans, i’m a french dodger fan… Yeah it’s true ^^ So Ken Rosenthal said on his last article that Torre might be the next manager for 2008… But McCourt would be fired Ned (a low salary) for Torre (a very heavy salary)??
GIRARDI!!!!!!!
Are you freakin kidding me???PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LET THIS BE TRUE!!!!!!!
Ken Rosthenal points out that NONE of grady’s staff is signed for next year and that our bench coach Dave Jauss is close to agreeing with the Pirates to be their bench coach…
my Guess is Grady will be gone after the world series.
I think it’s a good sign if Jauss sign to the Pirates, and everybody in the staff will be fire after the World Series…
So I like Torre, his charism, his history everybody else but we need a fresh and young manager, Girardi is the best pick for us… He shown his talent in Florida and if he come here, he has a same kind of team: young and talented…
HIRE GIRARDI!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, a topic worth talking about, Girardi would be an excellent choice for manager of this ballclub. There was one man if Grady were to be fired that would be a logical choice and that is Girardi. Firing Little for the sake of firing him is a bad idea. I for one do not agree No Grady is better than Grady, there are far worse managers out there than Grady Little, some of you are too close to the situation here in L.A, nit-picking every move, when the same moves are made by most managers and the results rely on the players. Case in point Clint Hurdle, he made some questionable decisions but because his team was incredible they bailed him out. Little had a terrible month of September and definitely a poor season. But, if he is fired it must be for the right person. Joe Girardi is that right person.
i think Grady is the worst manager in the NL if not the whole league. Beyond the on the field moves and personnel decisions…he let something happen in the clubhouse that should have never happened. He can’t manage a team. It’s that simple.
Girardi would be a tremendous pick-up!
I am, however, trying not to get too excited about the story. Part of my strongly suspects this may be a bargaining strategy put in place by Girardi’s camp in order to put some pressure on Yankee management. We’ll just have to wait and see.
“Officials familiar with Girardi’s job prospects said Thursday if the Yankees do not hire him to succeed Joe Torre, then Girardi could have a developing opportunity with the Los Angeles Dodgers.”
This statement reeks of an inside job: “Officials familiar with Girardi’s job prospects…” Heck, that could include his agent, his agent’s associates, or even Girardi himself!
As I said, wait and see.
This from Ed Price of the NJ Star Ledger:
“If he doesn’t get the job as Yankees manager, Joe Girardi could go to the Los Angeles Dodgers, possibly as bench coach. Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti worked in the Chicago Cubs front office during Girardi’s first playing stint with the Cubs (1989-92).
The Yankees are deciding whom to hire from among Girardi, Don Mattingly and Tony Pena.
Girardi’s name has been discussed within the Dodgers organization since early this month. Colletti was said to be unhappy with his coaching staff last season, feeling that the young players underachieved, and is searching for a bench coach to work under manager Grady Little.
It isn’t clear whether Girardi, who has said he “truly love(s)” managing, would go back to being a bench coach, the position he held with the Yankees in 2005. But it appears that the Dodgers are going to hire a bench coach without the input of Little, an indication that Little is on the hot seat.”
_____________________________
!!!”Colletti was said to be unhappy with his coaching staff last season, feeling that the young players underachieved…”!!!!
Either this guy is completely full of it or our GM is officially INSANE! How could anyone say the young players underachieved? Billz, Broxton, Kemp, Loney, Martin, and to a lesser extent, Ethier, Abreu and Hu were all great. The only young guy that arguably underachieved is LaRoche, even tough injuries and lack of playing time is a better explanation for his ineffectiveness. Oh, and he also mentions Girardi might come to LA to serve as Grady’s bench coach!!! LOL!
I’m think its fairly clear that this Girardi story is complete BS.
The Rockies lost but they played a lot better and the game was a lot closer then the Red Sox fans made it look. Now it’s on to Colorado.
manny3vee–No, that guy is right. Our young players did underachieve. After all, Loney only hit 15 home runs, when a first basemen should hit 25-40. And Matt Kemp only hit 10. And Bills only had 12 wins! These stats are way too low. It’s almost as if they only played a half of a season!
OK, after removing my toungue from my cheek, I think it goes back to the reporting. There has been some good commenting on the poor sourcing of the story here and at DodgerThoughts, and the vagueness of what the heck a “developing opportunity” is. And also, national correspondents, and correspondents from other cities tend to be poor sources of good information about the Dodgers–Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Dodgers should hire Torre, because they can spend $7 million a year on him rather than a good hitter. Don’t think about that too much, because your brain will explode. But remember, the last big rumor that Ken Rosenthal hawked was that the Dodgers were going to trade Loney and a bunch of other prospects for Mark Texiera. After that, it’s hard to take him seriously. (And as dumb as it looked then, think of how dumb that looks now.)
I am not always a fan of Ken Gurnick, who covers the team for MLB.com, but he usually has a much better read on the situation. Look at what he says–basically, if the Yankees don’t hire Girardi, then the Dodgers might hire him as the Bench Coach. Well, if you can’t be a big league manager, then you can either bide your time in the broadcast booth or you become the number 2 guy as a bench coach. The problem with the booth is that you can lose touch with the day-to-day stuff. I think the Yankees will hire Mattingly to manage (a really risky move for everyone involved–Mattingly can lose his luster to Yankees fans who incredibly overrate his career and want him to be in the Hall of Fame; but Steinbrenner, with his habit of firing people, might finally find the one unfirable manager in Yankee history). Then, there is a good chance we’ll hire Girardi as the Bench Coach. That could be good, because it may pave the way for him in the future. On the downside, if we are going to change managers, I still want Kirk Gibson. I realize he does not have Girardi’s experience (even though it’s only one year), but there’s no doubt that Gibby would will us to victory, and I sure would not mind seeing him back in the same uniform he was in on October 15, 1988.
In fact, the only people who I want to see as manager next year is either Gibson–for the dramatic affect–or Grady–not that he’s great, but it would be unsettling for the club to renew his contract, insist well into the off-season that he would be the manager, and then switch gears all of the sudden??? It’s not like we did not know Girardi was available–or other candidates equally good. And in the end, I think Grady is coming back.
Finally, to cameron, messagebear, and jan, just to clarify about McCourt, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt on baseball moves (or at least not much). No doubt he has made errors there–but so did O’Malley, and most owners. Fred Claire acquired Kirk Gibson before the 1988 season, but he also got Mike Davis (who’s only contribution was taking four pitches). Claire made a host of goofball moves–does anyone remember the 1990 team or the 1992 team (besides Karros)? And his first acquisition in 1987 was Enos Cabell. And the Pedro trade. Yikes. So, I am always willing to question whether the baseball moves were right (with the slight benefit of the doubt that they do know more about these guys than we do, and sometimes see things we simply can’t).
But the issue that came up was that people were saying McCourt does not want to win, but only wants to make Dodger Stadium an amusement park (and comments in a similar vein). It seems to me that he is doing what we would want:
1) Setting a general direction for the club, and leaving the baseball operation to the people who know baseball.
2) Building around homegrown players and focusing on the farm system and development.
3) Being willing to spend money on payroll to allow the baseball people to win.
4) Addressing the concerns that the fans expressed when they come to the stadium (parking, concessions, seats), try to watch games (he made a point of trying to assure that every game would be televised); or listen (new radio contracts for English and Spanish language broadcasting).
Cameron, when you say that you can’t give him the benefit of the doubt because he allowed a lot of money to be blown on bad contracts, to me that is more likely to reinforce my positive feelings. Clearly, he has no interest in wasting money. It might turn out that the Pierre deal was a bad move, or an overpaid contract (although, I note, that Julio Lugo is getting paid more than Juan Pierre), it’s a mistake. But he’s also not Fox-like and refusing to spend money. Remember, Fox executives interevened to trade the greatest catcher of all time because he wanted a contract that almost anyone would give him.
Finally, even if you don’t like the baseball people he has put in place (Ned and Grady), it’s very hard to fault him for the move. They both have pretty good pedigrees; they had an excellent first season, with a team that was not expected to go far; the off-season moves, even if you disagree, were justifiable (you can see trying to buy a year or two of veteran service while Loney, Kemp, etc. matured a little more into starts–I would have gambled the other way, and I would have been right, but I always understood the rationale behind the moves), and even while the team collapsed in the last 2 weeks of the season, they were in the thick of the pennant race the whole time. Considering that for the first 40 years in Los Angeles, the Dodgers had one family owner (the O’Malleys), 3 General Managers (Buzzie Bavasi, Al Campanis, and Fred Claire), and 3 field managers (Alston, Lasorda, and Russell), getting back to an agre of stability where a GM or a manager is given more than 2 years to sink or swim is probably a positive step.
We will never win a WS with Coletti in charge. If you guys can’t see that then your being nieve. If not for the core talent of the farm and the contracts already on the roster before he arrived we would be a complete and total failure.
The only reason we are not better is him. Just these 6 players make more money than the Rockie Payroll next season
Furcal, Pierre, Nomar, kent
Schmidt, loazia
my guess is Holliday will hit more HR than the 4 offensive guys combined next year and Francis will win more games than the two pitchers will combined.
Coletti paid 64 million for those 6 guys who can all but be replaced with replacement level people.
Continuity is great when good people are in charge.
Jungar,
I know we’ve all gone over this a number of times, but you are absolutely correct. Colletti has been and absolute disaster. I mean, lets just sit back for a second and think about how utterly obscene it is that THOSE 6 guys are getting paid more than the NL’s representative in this years World Series!
I realize the playoffs are a bit of a ****-shoot and any given team can get hot and make a championship run, but Colletti’s squad wasn’t even close to making the playoffs. That is just completely unacceptable!
Another thing that really gets to me is how he seemingly gets a free pass from the media, fans, and, apparently, even from ownership. I think the job he has done is far inferior to what Depo did in his 2 years. Yet Depo was completely villainized by the very same media, fans, and ownership.
Colletti has done more short-term and long-term damage to this team than Depo ever would have done. Depo’s pay-roll in 05 was 83 million, Colletti’s 07 was at 108 million. I am absolutely convinced Depo would have spent that money more wisely, or perhaps not spent that money at all (which, to me, would have been the best thing Colletti could have done last off-season). IMHO, this organization is being run by and GM and Manager who rank in the bottom 5 of their respective category.
For a guy who lives and breaths Dodger baseball, its completely demoralizing.
to simplify things and not used advanced stats I simply want at least this:
at least better than 1 million per each homerun. pitchers give us at least 1 million dollar per each win
-Kent was basically 500k per homerun
-Gonzo was basically 500k per homerun
-Nomar was over 1 million per homerun.
-Furcal 2 million per homerun
-Pierre was 8 millon for no homeruns
-Tomko was paid 2 million for each win
-Schmidt was paid 15 million for no wins
Penny, Lowe were over a million per win at least.
Kemp, Loney, Ethier , Martin, all were like 30k per homerun and Bills was like 20k per win.
“Penny, Lowe were over a million per win at least.”
Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | October 26, 2007 12:10 PM
(Not that wins is a useful comparative statistic, but) I think you mean under one million.
Penny 16 wins, $8.5M (incl. $1M of his signing bonus) = $531,250 per win
Lowe 12 wins, $9.5M = $791,333 per win
A couple of interesting things on the web site today. In Gurnick’s column, there is a part where this fellow James rates the Dodgers young players #20 overall. Ugh!! I’ve had a sneaking suspicion for a while that a lot of the kids are not as good as advertised, and yes, they did underachieve. The kids are good, but a bunch of teams also have a lot of good players, maybe better.
A lot of people want to lay the collapse off on a few sour vets, but that’s too simple. The Grady explanation doesn’t tell the whole story either.
Girardi entering the picture has got to have gotten Little’s attention. It would be a bad situation to have to manage with Girardi breathing down your neck.
If the Dodger kids underachieved, Id like to know what this guy thinks about the DBacks kids. In a hitters park.
knouffbrock@frontiernet.net | October 26, 2007 06:26 PM
You are (unintentionally, I hope) misrepresenting this a bit. It’s not that LA’s kids aren’t good, it’s that there aren’t enough of them, especially in the upper 20s, when they tend to be more mature and productive.
Bill James’ report is using a “young talent” definition of “under 29 years old in 2007”. The 2007 Dodgers have several quality players who are very young, and next to nothing in terms of players in their upper 20s. (The only Dodgers 26, 27 or 28 to see playing time: Stults, Houlton, Hull, Tsao, Brazoban. You know they didn’t contribute much).
Additionally, the study is based on major-league production only, so the up-and-coming prospects don’t add much (e.g., Hu) or add nothing (e.g., Kershaw, McDonald).
James: “Competitive teams don’t have as much room to let young players thrash around, and consequently most of the top teams don’t show as having a lot of young talent. They may have the young talent; it just isn’t in the lineup yet.” The Dodgers ranking is hurt because the young talent didn’t play enough (e.g., Loney and Kemp in the minors too long)!
He also rated Billingsley the 24th best player under 29 in the entire major leagues already – that’s pretty darn good.
Does anyone think Loney, Martin, or Kemp underachieved at the plate? Billingsley or Broxton on the mound?
(Not that wins is a useful comparative statistic, but) I think you mean under one million
thanks, and yeah i totally agree..it’s sarcastic..but still pretty low standards….
The first thing I thought of when I heard Girardi would become bench coach was when O’Malley and Buvasi hired Durocher to be the Third Base coach.
“Speak softly, and carry a big stick” – Theodore Roosevelt
In the end I very much hope you guys are correct. Right now I just have this uneasy feeling about some of the kids. Nothing would please me more to be wrong.
The comparison to Durocher is interesting. He definitely livened things up around LA.
I like the idea of Girardi, but as a bench coach, Give Me a Break. First of all, I’d hate to see his fire dampened by being in the same dugout and being subservient to Grady. Secondly, it would seem to everybody like a change waiting to happen. That could only be disruptive. If Girardi comes with the Dodgers, and I hope he does, let’s just make him the manager and give him the chance to shape the team on the field from the outset. If we need a face-saving gesture to Grady, Colletti can think up a special assignment for him for the remainder of his contract, much as was done with Mueller.
You never know, It still may happen. I think the Dodgers are waiting on the Yankee’s decision. I don’t expect them to come right out and tell anybody right now. Keep your fingers crossed.WOW over 480 comments I don’t think Josh reads them all.
GIRARDI!!!!!!!!! Please, Mr. McCourt, Ned, front office personell… make him our next manager, he is the type of guy who can take us to the next level for years to come… I like him as much as I dislike Grady(which is alot). He would bring life back to the team and not lose his clubhouse. GIRARDI IN ’08!!!!!!
For the first 23 innings of this World Series the Rockies’ offense did a good imitation of the Dodgers’ offense in August and played very simular to how the Dodgers play in the post season. They finally got into it with 5 runs but that didn’t scare the Redsox as they got 4 runs back to win 10-5 and just about wrapped up the whole thing unless the Rox can pull the same thing the Redsox pulled a few years ago against the Yankees in the ALCS.
old_fogey–Thanks for clearing up the issue on Bill James’ book. He is one of the better analysts, to be sure, and I was really surprised to see us at #20. Your explanation makes sense–we’re a pretty darn good under 25, but they’re just not playing much yet!
Jungar–I hope that you don’t think me naive, but I do think we can win with Colletti. I remain torn. He has clearly made mistakes, but if his philosophy has been to try to put in veteran “place-holders” until the kids are ready, then I think that the philosophy is right. The question becomes execution. He clearly messed up in not realizing that many of the kids were ready. If he realizes that this off-season, there is reason to hope. Admittedly, if he continues to favor mediocre veterans over rookies who can produce (or at least should be given the chance), then hope dissolves. I guess I just see it as too soon to know for sure.
Compare to DePo, who did not seem to have a strategy that made much, if any, sense. Trading away key players at the deadline, particularly when replaced by guys who just were not legitimate majore league starters–especially for a playoff team. We went from LoDuca at catcher to David Ross. We turned over the setup role from Guillermo Mota to Brazhoban (totally unproven at the time) and Dreifort (whose arm fell off). Then, in the off-season, we essentailly replaced a top-3 MVP candidate (Beltre), with a fading former star (Kent–even though he had a very solid season in 2005, he never compared to Beltre). We had Jose Valentin starting at third base. We acquired the perpetually broken down JD Drew. Basically, we went from winning the division in 2004 to starting the 2005 season with no chance at all. That’s just atrocious. Compare to Colletti–we had a lower record to qualify in a tie for the division and wild card and we were picked to win the pennant by SI. We were in first place most of the first half, and not until the last two weeks were in the thick of the race.
I admit I could be wrong, but I consider it optimism over naivete’.
leekfink-
I agree that the Dodgers can win with Colletti. Though he has made mistakes, what GM hasn’t? When he joined the Dodgers after the Depo fiasco, we lacked credibility throughout MLB. He worked hard & quickly to restore order. Then, last year when Drew unexpectedly opted out of his contract, Colletti was hard-pressed to replace 20 HR & 100 RBI that Drew produced – and there was no one out there worth signing so had to re-sign Nomar, hoping that he could repeat ’06. He’s had his work cut out for him.
Being a GM, most decisions are gambles. The important issue is his philosophy. I’m glad that he’s holding onto the young players…I hope he continues to. He takes a lot of flack for the free agents he’s signed, but aside from Piere they have all been short term. Though Furcal was hurt this year, he was a catalyst in ’06, when he was healthy. Nomar paid off in ’06 before regressing this year. He had no way of knowing that Schmidt was injured when he got him. Gonzo, Tomko, & Loaiza were brought in to fill perceived holes in the roster and didn’t pan out as well as expected…but they were gambles…and no youngsters were traded to get them.
So far so good philosophically. My fear is that too much of Sabean may have rubbed off on him, creating a desire for more veterans past their prime. I hope he stays with the youth movement. This team can be great with a solid young core.
OMG!!! Just heard that A-Rod has opted out . . . .
So did everybody in the baseball world, what a surreal moment! Only Boras would make an announcement in a potential (and likely) clinching game of the World Series. A-Rod and Boras just one upped the World Series! Unbelieveable! Let the drama begin!
Freaking Jacoby Ellsbury. 2 years ago he’s a NCAA champ with Ore St., now a World Series with Boston.
Congradulations RedSox World Champs.
Yep, now let’s see what happen next with A-Rod and the N.Y papers say Girardi might be the Yankees’ manager. I guess tomorrow we’ll find out for sure. Well the Rockies got to the World Series but were swept. I think the 8 day layoff hurt them but you can’t do anything about that. But the Bosox had a great team and the Rox are the N.L. Champs.
Bill Plashke has a new column up that really offends me:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-plaschke29oct29,1,5288060.column?page=2&coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger
I emailed this criticism:
Bill,
You got it all wrong! I’m sooooo glad that you are not the GM of a Major League team. Didn’t you notice that 3 of the 4 championship teams had a heavy influence of young, home-grown talent? The Rockies, Indians, & Diamondbacks are the models of how to build a strong franchise. The Red Sox couldn’t have won the series without strong contributions from Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youklis, & especially Papelbon! Those young guys contributed every bit as much as the veterans.
Stop trying to screw up the Dodgers & Angels by locking them into cumbersome free agent contracts! How far did the Dodgers get with Brown/Green/Sheffield/Dreifort/Park? Their stupid contracts ruined our roster flexibility for years! With Kemp/Loney/Billingsley/Martin/Ethier/LaRoche/Broxton/Kershaw/Elbert/McDonald/Abreu/Meloan, we now have a chance to create & maintain a strong team for at least the next five years. As a life-long Dodger fan, I’ve appreciated the home-grown teams of Koufax/Drysdale/Sutton/Davis/Parker, Garvey/Lopes/Russell/Cey/Yeager, Hershiser/Valenzuela/Sciocia/Sax/Marshall, & Piazza/Karros/Nomo/Mondesi/Hollandsworth.
You have already lost credibility with many Dodger fans, from what I’ve read & heard. If this stupid article influences Ned Colletti to sign more high-priced free agents, I’ll boycott your stupid column big time. Bad reviews travel twice as fast as good ones.
Man was I ever wrong about the Rockies. They completely forgot how to hit in that series.
A-Rod opts out and Girardi is looking like the top candidate for the Yanks job.
Now that A-Rod has opted out I really think the job will go to Girardi. Had A-Rod stayed I think Mattingly would have been hired.
I’ve read a good many posts saying they don’t think Ned and Grady should be fired. What are you guys thinking? Ned has no clue how to solve a puzzle and Grady doesn’t know how to use a bullpen.
Everyone talks about how going young is the new model in baseball. I disagree. If you want to be good for a long time then you should build a team like the Red Sox. They have good vets and good young talent. You can’t be too young or too old. I think we’re too young to win now and in the future. If nothing changes well be World Series contenders in about 2 years and we’ll have a 2-4 year stretch when we’ll be real good.(Assuming everything stays the way it is now) Then you’ll lose young guys to free agency and you’ll be starting all over again. The Red Sox are built to win now and in the future. I think in order to win now and in the future the Dodgers need to trade or sign a proven third baseman and outfielder. Trying to live with Pierre and Nomar/LaRoche is only going to hurt us. I like LaRoche alot but he’s shown to be very fragile. His stock is still high so I’d see what I could get now before it’s too late.
When it boils down to it you can do like the Rockies and wait 3-6 years to be contenders or you can do like the Red Sox and win now and still look good for the future years.
The Red Sox, of course, have a huge payroll. Colletti has proved that he doesn’t know how to use a large payroll – he wastes it. Nothing is going to change in the standings as far as the Dodgers are concerned while Colletti and Grady are maintained in their management positions. They both should have been fired today, as soon as the Series was over.
According to the Daily News (N.Y.) The Dodgers are interested in Joe Torre if Joe Girardi lands the Yankee job. I personally think that Torre is no better made up to manage the Dodgers then Little is. He is almost exactally like him but maybe a change would be for the better.
I agree. No Torre.
I’m in the camp of “anybody would be better than Grady”, but I don’t think that Torre would add anything special to the club. I would have liked Girardi based on his experience, but he’s always seemed slated and probably in waiting for the Yankees job. I personally like Gibson, and I think that he could make a notable difference for our club of younger players. I still don’t see any change happening as long as Colletti stays on.
Torre, despite not being as ideal as Girardi, would still be a huge improvement over Grady. The guy definately understands the game better and has loads more experience. Like someone said earlier- now that A-Rod has opted out Girardi is definately going to be the yankees manager. Torre would add years and years of winning baseball to this team as well as Playoff and World Series Championships and experience– those are all special things in my book. And they are all things we dont have with our current manager and rosters.
hey Cameron,
How can you not be too young or too old?
I told the Big Dodger in the Sky he’s not taking me until I see the pennant flag flying again at Dodger Stadium,” Lasorda said here. “He can’t take me until we win the world championship of baseball again. Then, I might have to go.” — LA Times
that’s the kind of guy we would want to manage for the dodgers!!!
maybe we should consider calling the big dodger on the sky to give us another tommy lasorda type of person to manage the team!
hey Cameron,
How can you not be too young or too old?
Posted by: ewk216@nyu.edu | October 29, 2007 08:44 AM
Look at the Red Sox. They’re not to young or too old. They have older guys like Timlin and Schilling. They have guys in there prime like Manny, Ortiz, and Beckett. Then they have their young guys like Papelbon, Pedoria and Lester. That’s a team that’s not to old or to young.
Got it.. Thanks for the clarification…
I wasn’t trying to be a smart *** or anything. That’s just my opinion on the Sox. I think they’re built perfectly. They should be contenders for a long time.
i wasn’t really into the “well done rockies club”
the rockies are a young team and young players don’t get tired down the stretch!
They played like they were a fresh team just coming from spring training!
That’s a big part why they did such a great job down the stretch!
the dodgers youngters did the same thing!
Kemp,Loney,Martin,Ethier,Bills… but that wasn’t enough coz gonzo and a bunch of veteran cry babies continue to play…
i knew from the start that the red sox will get all 4 games! why coz in the WS experienced is a big factor…
It’s full blown Yankee watch on ESPN today… so annoying.
Tell me about it. Do you guys out west hear as much about Boston and the Yankees as we do in the east? That’s all you hear over hear. And you can forget watching a game on ESPN that isn’t Boston or NY.
renteria to the tigers
Where did you hear that from?
I may be in the minority here… but I honestly feel that hiring Joe Torre would be a HUGE step backwards for the franchise. Torre has proven he can handle a bunch of high-priced veterans, but this isn’t 1982 any more, and the Dodgers aren’t the Braves… not to mention that the teams Torre has managed have gotten older through the years he’s managed them, so I’m sure he’s not about to have the patience he once had early in his career.
The Dodgers need a younger upstart manager… a Girardi type. Kirk Gibson has been great with the young guys on the Diamondbacks. Get two for the price of one by hiring Gibson. The first being the huge coaching hole his leaving the Diamondbacks would create and the second being the great asset he’d be in coming back to the Dodgers. Can you imagine the marketing opps? Gibby knows the game and would be good for the younger players and veterans alike. Guys like Jeff Kent are all about the type of player Gibson was… so he’d be a natural leader for the veteran presence as well.
I’m glad I’m not a Braves fan anymore. They will never win anything again because they keep letting all their good players go and they won’t spend the money to win. That’s good for the Dodgers though. That’s one less team we have to worry about.
Are we interested in Joe Torre because of the experience that he has as a manager and the success he has had. Or are we going to use Joe as bait, so that we can land big head A-rod. We also conclude that Joe Torre would serve as bait to bring in Mariano Rivera. I am not sure if Saito is coming back. So really who is out there to fill the shoes of a closer. I just hope what ever happens works out, i would hate for A-rod $30 million get to his head an actually become more of a problem in the club house.
He don’t need another drama queen to stir up attention in LA. We already have Kobe Bryant doing that for us.
carcyn@sbcglobal.net:
1. Torre wouldn’t be good for the Dodgers.
2. We don’t need Rivera.
3. A-Rod is probably going to play SS for the Cubs.
4. Kobe will be out of LA before you know it.
Any more questions?
Just playing. That is my opinion on all those topics though.
Plashke is brain dead. He suggests keeping Little, but trading the players who performed well. I’m not on the Fire Grady bandwagon, but imagine a Dodger team with Grady but no Matt Kemp or James Loney. Ughh.
Then, he lauds the Red Sox free agent moves. Sorry, folks, but the Red Sox won the World Series in spite of JD Drew and Julio Lugo. And in terms of other guys they acquired, they either got lucky (Manny, Ortiz, Lowell) with guys who were not superstars until they arrived in Boston, or they got a steal because Florida was having its biennial fire-sale (Beckett). Ridiculous.
Cameron, I think that you miss the point about the Dodgers youth movement. It’s not to go with only young guys until they become eligible for free agency, and always keep low salaries. We have building blocks of young good (possibly great players). We pay them less now. If Martin, Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, and Broxton all develop into the stars that they are, then come their 4th-6th years, they get expensive. But by then we’re not burdened by ridiculous contracts to washed up “proven veteran leaders.” And, the idea is to keep the farm system churning out replacements. Maybe we’ll need to replace Furcal after 2008, or Pierre after 2011. Let’s say Ethier is a consistent .280/20 HR hitter. For the league minimum, he’s a steal at twice the price. But, as he approaches free agency, maybe the next Matt Kemp (or even Ethier) is waiting in the wings. For better or worse, part of “the Dodger Way” was always about replacing players who were still good but costly with younger players who were nearly as good, but much cheaper.
Finally, I hate to say that we should sign A-Rod, but everyone here who says it is right. But I will still feel better about the Dodgers if we don’t. What a jerk–upstaging the World Series. It’s days like that I wish that there was still collusion with the owners–I would love if no one made him a better offer than the Yankees.
I’m not saying that you can’t have those young players I’m just saying that we need more players in their early to mid thirtys to mix with them. That way when they get old the kids will be in their early thirtys and you bring up more kids. Right now we have Penny,Lowe and Furcal that are good in their prime players. We have Martin, Bills, Broxton, LaRoche, Loney, Either, and Kemp as our young guys. We need more players in their prime to complement our young kids. We need an outfielder and either a third baseman or second baseman plus another starting pitcher. If we would give a little to bring in 3-4 proven veterns we would be much better off for next year and many years to come. You can’t hold on to everybody and you can’t win with a roster like ours. We have to many young guys and to many old guys and not enough in between.
To put in my 2 cents worth right now, I don’t sign ARod. Completely classless announcement DURING the World Series, even if it was through Boras (who isn’t exactly an innocent party to this a la JD Drew). It’s all about him and respect for the game. Not only that, but he’s never won and he’s horrbile in the post-season. True, great individual numbers, but that’s just it…..individual. How would ARod fit in with the young guys and, more importantly, what kind of influence would he be on the young kids? Preferential treatment, showing the kids it’s all about the $$, etc. No, No, No, on ARod. If anyone has anything that ARod brings is positive to offset these negatives, I’m willing to listen.
I give the chances (at this point) of the Dodgers signing ARod a 20-30% chance strictly on the fact that they can afford it. Chances go up from these percentages if you add in the Dodgers need for a 3rd baseman / shortshop (after 2008) AND the power hitter….maybe another 15-25%. Chances go down given Colletti’s experience dealing with Boras (Drew, etc.)…..deduct 10%. Total chances of Dodgers’s signing AROd is less than 50% max.
I still think they don’t do it. Don’t strap yourself to this guy.
CameronWalden — What I didn’t llike about Plaschke’s article is what jboydstun basically said…….we did go out and do what Plaschke’s wants, but those guys didn’t pan out.
It’s easy to Monday Morning Quarterback, but difficult to predict future performance.
Great points. I say no to A-Rod also. Yes he’s probably going to go down as one of the greatest players every but he has no respect for the game. To let your agent have a coming out party during the final game of the world series is classless. And if we we’re to sign a player for 30+ million a year he better bat over .500, hit 70+ HR’s, drive in 200 RBI’s and he better pitch him self to 30 wins. If he can’t do all that then he’s not worth 30 million. That’s my opinion. And all the **** about wanting a ring is BS. If a players goal was to win a ring then they’d all take less money to join a team so they could do so. He’s already made over 200 million dollars in his career. Why does he need more? He doesn’t, he just wants more because he is selfish. He use to be my favorite player but now I hate him more than anybody.
greatest baseball player ever.
thats all you need to know.he has never one the world series?, and ***** in the playoffs??? well last time i checked we didn’t even get into the playoffs. nl has weaker pitching. A-rod is not a problem. this team would be a lock for the playoffs. who cares about the timing of the announcement. who does it hurt…who cares? do you think the rockies care? do you thinkk the red sox care? c’mon…best pleyer in the game and you don’t want him???….
with tat said. doubt we will get him. i just hope we at least make a real move at him.
We didn’t go out and get anybody we needed. We didn’t get a power hitting third baseman. We got the weakest armed outfielder in baseball and 2 pitchers that have a history of arm problems. Look at the Sox. They gave up one of the best young SS in the game for a good third baseman and at the time a above average pitcher. We give up players for guys like Hendy.
speaking of the Lakers!
i kind of change my mind on the Kobe situation!
i don’t want Kobe to be traded but i want the lakers to win! so all in all Kobe “needs” to be traded!
first the should trade KObe to chicago with a package of some players with Deng and Gordon on it! That’s a fair trade!
second! they should trade COOK,ODOM,BROWN to pacers for O’neal!
those things can happen if the lakers wants to win!
starting lineup!
Fisher
Gordon
Walton
Deng
O’neal!
and what more? by giving COOK and BROWN to the pacers the lakers won’t have those lazy players anymore!
so the bench should be solid!
Bynum
Mhim
Farmar
Vujacic
Radman
Turiaf
Javaris
Karl
That’s a pretty good team! i know alot of u will agree with that!
that’s a championship team!
it’s not a dream coz that can happen if the lakers really wants to win!
For the Dodgers! i think Girardi is the rayt person to manage this team!
The only reason that the dodgers will sign Torre is “for the sake of dumping Grady”
Grady and Torre are like twins in managing a team!
the only thing that didn’t match between the two is Grady is a much better guy!
I want grady more than Torre!
Girardi or Gibson for manager!
and one more thing!
our pitching coach is stupid!
how could u make ur pitchers throw soft stuff?
penny can throw 96-98 sometimes up to 100…
but instead he pitch 92-94!
when u look at those old players who are still playing… Maddux, Glavine,Smoltz,Schilling they like to throw hard but they can’t coz they are old…
if a guy can throw hard let him throw his good stuff!
maybe tomko is telling the truth about our pitching coach!
and fans love those pitchers who can blow out hitters!
GO Lakers!!!
Go DODGERS!!!
Manfrom China — Texas and Yankees had the best player on their team and didn’t win. True, Yankees went to the playoffs, then what?
Jan_Dodgers — My bro-in-law had somewhat similar views on the Dodgers pitching; namely, Stan Conte. Why is it that once he came in, all the players, especially pitchers, started going down? What kind of regimen does Conte have that players get hurt?
Grady and Torre are like twins in managing a team!
Posted by: jan_dodgers@yahoo.com | October 29, 2007 01:35 PM
12 straight playoff appearences, 4 world series championships! Where were the Yankees before Torre????I’m not big on Torre but I”ve seen Grady manage about 300 games and he is by far the WORST manager I have ever seen. How can you compare a 4 time champion to a career minor league manager that has had 4 years of BIG payrolls and has only gotten worse. My praires have been answered(I think) grady will not manage the team next year.
ARod will give the dodgers all they want in case of offense!
i really don’t care rayt now about him not being successful with texas and yanks! coz if u find a team the u really want to be in ur heart will be on the team and not for the money!
i really think that ARod doesn’t want to be in NY!
if he does he will not have opt out!
i think Arod will like it here… with the fans! with the kind of history this team has… alot of good person from the organization!
it will be a great fit for him!
but the problem is the money! is he worth that kind of amount of money? maybe yes maybe no! yet to be seen coz he hasn’t played yet…!
for the yanks! i think the yanks will try and trade for Miguel cabrera!
i just have the feeling that they will!
alot of questions this off season! it will be very interesting to see what the dodgers will do!
diehard
are u kidding me?
that was the worst post i have ever seen u wrote!
Torre had great teams in all those years!!
yeah i know grady did have a great team in boston and he failed to get a ring!
but this is the dodgers now! i really don’t think that u should compare this to that!
coz managing the dodgers is alot harder than managing the red sox!
oh and i really understand how much u hate grady!
i can’t blame u for that!
but i don’t agree that he is the worst!
coz if he is!
the red sox that he manage would have not get into the WS at all that time!
the braves are stupid!
even though i don’t like renteria i think it is still stupid to trade that kind of player!
The Red Sox that he managed never made the World Series they lost on A. Boone walk off in the ALCS when Grady left in Pedro for Five straight hits after he threw 100 pitches! remember
NO WAY is managing the Dodgers harder than the Sox. Your crazy
S. Brosious,P.o’neill, T.Martinez,B. Williams,J.Girardi Torre was winning before the Yankees got Giambi,Damon,Arod Torre brought the Yankees back 12 straight titles 4 chmpionships Grittle can’t hold Torre’s Jock strap
getting a little carried away sorry…
there are alot of things on my mind rayt now!
im a big lakers fan too…
this days im really into the lakers getting another ring too…
then now Arod opting out!
girardi a candidate!
torre maybe another grady!
clubhouse mess!
dope!
anyway…
just imagine torre managing the dodgers w/o even a superstar on the team…
Loney,Martin,Kemp,Bills are all superstars I can see Torre watching Laroche play and give him the Job like he did Jeter.
Kobe or Arod who is a bigger *****???
diehard, there both pieces of ****, they are both unfaithful at there job sites, both selfish, and the only difference between them is Kobe has won and A-Rod hasn’t, but Kobe only won because of Shaq. And they are both unfaithful at home too.
Jan_dodgers
great post about the lakers!
that makes alot of sense! if the trade happen, i hate to say good bye to Kobe but he( just like u said) “needs” to go
diehardblu
Loney,Martin,Kemp,Bills are not superstar!
they will or might not be a superstar.
Martin is an all-star but not a superstar. at least no yet
wow..jan, is that you talking to yourself with 2 usernames? i could swear the writing styles are so similiar??
im sorry?
im not jan
my name is Angelo thats why its GeLo
gelomac 03 and Jan are the same post.
I know those guys are not superstars this year but they will be next year when Torre is managing them!!!
Ok angelo just kinda fishy you guys post similar.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!!!!!
isee what you mean
those large spaces?
the same with my writing?
somehow, i don’t buy that..but whatevers, not that it matters anyways. Just found it kind of odd that the posting styles are similiar, and no one really types in the same “style”
oh
am i gelomac_03?
who knows… LOL
you tried to be slick jan you got caught! LOL that’s pretty funny
who knows? more like..who cares, and how lame.. 🙂
lol..i was thinking the same thing diehard…giving props to your own posts on 2 different usernames is kinda weird if you ask me..
van_19_cute
jan_dodgers
gelomac_03
macao_03_90 (someday u’ll know him)
if u want there’s alot more…
LOL!
yeah… got me there…
i never realized that i can’t fake my writing! im bad at this!
no wonder my friends always knows who iam when im texting using a different number… LOL
full name!
Jan Angelo Macalalad!
i hate that surname! LOL
Macao is a name my friend call me coz my surname is too long!
and casino i don’t know what ur trying to say “giving props to your own posts on 2 different usernames”
i did that coz i thought it wont be so obvious coz im going for an attack post to die hard! ahahahahah
it is nothing to do on “giving props to my own posts on 2 different usernames”
i know my post are great!
specially concerning the lakers!
that can happen!
Go LAKERS!!!
Go DODGERS!!!
ok guys im off!!!
im going to watch “The Filipino Channel”
it would still be great to here some current events from my country!
okay sounds good *two thumbs up*
Here are my thoughts. Grady obviously needs to go. I love and respect Joe Torre for what he’s accomplished with the Yankees, however, I don’t believe he’s the answer. It’s like replacing the pot with the kettle. Torre would be a huge improvement over Little in the fact that he knows a thing or two about the game, but both of these share the same personality. I want a guy in LA who pisses high octane jet fuel into the camp fire; a true red @$$. When I heard that the Dodgers were interested in Girardi I got a…well, let’s just say that I got excited. I’ve been a big proponent of hiring Gibby, but I love the fire Girardi brings to the table as well. I’d be happy with either one, at least Girardi’s proven that he can manage at the major league level; something Gibson hasn’t done yet. I’m also not a huge fan of signing Rodriguez, and I seem to be in the majority. However, if they were to sign him, I sure wouldn’t be heartbroken that’s for sure. Someone made the point that A-Rod would have to hit 70 hrs and have 200 steaks to be worth 30 mil; somewhat unrealistic expectations for sure. However, if anyone could do it in todays game it would be him. I look at how valuable he would be to the line-up. Hitting in the four spot, the 3 batter (Kemp) would see a whole lot more fastballs, which in turn means a huge jump in offensive production. If you want to see Kemp hit 35 or 40 home runs a year, put A-Rod behind him. A-Rod may “only” hit 45 or 50 home runs next year, but if it means fatter pitches for the 3 and 5 guys, and in turn the 2 and 6 guys, and so on and so forth, bring it on. Alex may not hit 70 home runs or drive in 200, but if Loney and Kemp can each get an extra 2 or 3 fastballs per game they wouldn’t normally see otherwise…what do you think? I bet each would hit 10 to 15 more home runs than they would with Kent protecting them. With 3, 4, and 5 hitters like that, it makes the other guys in the lineup that much better. With Furcal and Pierre’s speed (assuming they can get on base) this team could be unstoppable.
That being said, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
1. No to ARod, for reasons everyone has already expressed. He’ll have a negative clubhouse influence. He is NOT going to be the guy to brige young and old. A huge distractions. Spend big money on FA pitching, not ARod.
2. No to Torre, not a huge upgrade from Grady, a backwards move, costs $$$, Torre is an old man and is nothing but another stop gap type manager. Find someone who’s going to be our Mike S. for the next decade.
3. Fire Grady. Obviously, management is unhappy with him. Conduct interviews, don’t just hire Torre based on rep.
leekfink: Appreciate your posts here. I have to mildly disagree with you re: Beltre vs. Kent. Let’s stipulate that Beltre is the superior glove man, younger, less injured, and that Kent is of, uh, questionable clubhouse value.
Year, BA, OBP, Slg, OPS+
Beltre:
2005: .255 .303 .413 93
2006: .268 .328 .465 105
2007: .276 .319 .482 112
Kent:
2005: .289 .377 .512 133
2006: .292 .385 .477 119
2007: .302 .375 .500 121
Even Juan Pierre had higher OBPs than Beltre for those three seasons! Of course Beltre is still young enough to blossom again, just in time for his next contract expiration (ends after 2009) – a quality 3B entering his age 31 season. Scott Boras does know how to work those contracts. Still, imagine the complaining in LA if Beltre had put up 93 and 105 OPS+ number for the first two seasons after re-signing with the Dodgers. Ouch.
The big problem with Kent is not the contract DePo gave him (2 yrs, $17M), it’s the the vesting option that Colletti gave him, plus his clear defensive decline making him even more of liability at the only position he can realistically play for LA. [unless the Dodgers move him to 1B and play Loney in the OF 😉 ]
jspelk2: “Spend big money on FA pitching, not ARod.”
The problem is that this years FA pitching STINKS. [And how did that work out last season with Schmidt? 😉 ]
if the dodgers fired grady and hired i wouldn’t complain. Torre has his downside but I think he would be great in the clubhouse. There was talk about the players not respecting Grady and Joe Torre would command instant respect even from the A-hole jeff kent. Torre also is more appealing to free agents and from a PR standpoint, which the dodgers seem to care about more then a baseball standpoint, he’d give the dodgers that star quality and you can’t tell me ESPN wouldn’t be all over Torre in LA.
As for A-Rod i’ve said this already but our starting third basemen next year should be A-Rod or Andy LaRoche.
hired torre*
oldfogey— well, Ned stupidly signed pierre to play CF when a bunch of FA CFs would be on the market in 07. This time, he should learn and look ahead to 08-09, when starters like Santana, Sabathia, Bedard, etc will be on the market. As for Schmidt, he had injury history issues that should have been considered more thoroughly. Id love to solely rely on the farm for pitching but its doubtful we will have enough in the coming years. I wouldn’t blow aquarter of payroll on ARod. It won’t even be the Dodgers anymore. It will be the ARod show. I really don’t want that.
Well guys, it looks like its pretty close to official news.
http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/SPORTS01/710290436
I will be very interested to see what Ned says about the move. I have a sneaking suspicion Ned is not completely on board with this, which would in turn place Ned in his own hot seat. If such is the case one can only dream Mr. Jocketty is eagerly waiting in the wings.
All in all, I like the move. Bringing Torre AND Mattingly will bring some much needed higher level of stability and respectability to the coaching staff.
Very interesting Manny… If true i would welcome the news with open arms and say lets begin the Joe Torre era in Los Angeles!! Welcome back to the NL, and you have a solid team talent wise in dire need of some real leadership. It;s a good idea to say goodbye to Grady…
Sure seems like Torre and Mattingly are coming West. If so, I’m puzzled by the late Septemebr assurances that both Grady and Ned would return. It couldn’t have been to keep a positive face down the stretch as the Dodgers fell out of contention pretty quick with the Colorado sweep in Denver. I’ve maintained Grady’s biggest fault was letting the clubhouse disintegrate. If a manager can’t keep everyone pulling in the same direction, then waht’s the point? Players certainly don’t have to like each other or even get along. Heck, didn’t Sutton want to bop Garvey in mug during the 70s glory days? But it sure seemed Grady lost the clubhouse, something Alston and Lasorda never let happen.
Anyway, if it’s all true, I feel bad for Grady. I think he’s a genuine human being. But the sporting world of today chews up and spits out almost every coach or manager at some point. Seems it goes with the territory…
I still hope Torre + Mattingly does NOT = A-Rod.
Torre reportedly will be named Manager of the Dodgers…just saw it 2 minutes ago on Sportcenter under the breaking news headline….
espnews is reporting it.
i love this move! maybe we can have a real coach who will understand the younger kids. but i still dont want arod. ive said it before. if we sign him im done with the dodgers. but im sure we wont get him. so its all good
Buster Olney says Little may be fired as soon as tomorrow, well at the very least the Dodgers are now a national story, we just became relevant for better or worse. We may all have different opinions on Grady as a manager, but as a human being he did not deserve this. Good luck to him. I never thought I’d see Joe Torre and Donnie Baseball wearing Dodger Blue. We’ll see if and when this story is confirmed. Actions speak louder than words, Grady Little just found that out.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3086202
i hope i get home from school tomorrow after noon and see this headline on ESPN “Dodgers fire Little; Torre hired”
Old-Fogey–You clearly got me on this one. Clearly, Kent equaled and surpassed Beltre (though, perhaps in 2007, Beltre’s more regular appearance in the line-up might serve to surpass Kent).
But, since I don’t have the facts, I am going to pound on pure conjecture–I think Beltre would have had a better time if he stayed with the Dodgers. Familiarity with the pitchers, comfort with the team, support of the fans–I think he does not collapse in 2005. But, it’s conjecture.
All that being said, I am going to stubbornly stick by my broader point–which was the 2004 Dodgers which ended the season looked much better than the 2005 team that started the season. I truly believe that point, though at the time I thought we were downgrading with the Beltre/Kent switch-off. Maybe it was the anti-Gian bias. But, by season’s-end I admitted that Kent came absolutely as-advertised, and had a great 2005 season (wasted, of course).
I am thoroughly perplexed at what’s going on with the manager’s situation. The Buster Olney report is that Girardi was Plan A and Torre was Plan B. This makes Grady Plan C at best. Since the Dodgers knew that either Torre or Girardi (if not both) would be available, why announce that Grady was coming back? And if Girardi was Plan A, why not just hire him the day after the season ended? Why wait until he’s up for the Yankees job, so it looks like we are only taking sloppy seconds?
Heck, if you’re going to hand off the manager’s job to either a largely untested young guy or an old guy with only a year or two left, then why not heed the fans call and just announce an end for Grady and conduct a legitimate search.
Why was there talk that Girardi would become the bench coach if Torre will become the manager? Were we trying to save money on Grady’s buyout???
And I really don’t get how you could pick between Torre or Girardi. If you want grizzled experience, Torre is your guy. If you want hard-nosed energy, then go with Girardi. But what’s the plan here??? (It’s not even “Not Grady,” because there are about a dozen other legitimate managerial candidates out there–including my favorite, Kirk Gibson–if you thought Grady was done).
I have not been one for the Fire Grady bandwagon, but never blamed anyone who was. And there are plenty of people who I think could probably do better (Torre and Girardi both bring different qualities that would be useful to the Dodgers–Torre would never lose a clubhouse, Girardi would bring fire). But when an organization says on the day the season ends that the manager is coming back, and is announcing a new manager before the 7th game of the World Series was scheduled, and the candidates were available before, it gets me worried about the organization.
I’m in shock. How did this fly so far under the radar? I thought we had to go through a managerial hiring practice of interviewing at least one minority candidate. I’ve never heard of a team already having a manager hired even before the existing one is fired.
If the reports are true, and Grady is gone, then I say GREAT. However, that’s only part of the picture. Let’s not forget that Colletti put together this team with his total incompetence, particularly in the last off-season. And the manner of handling the whole thing says only one thing about McCourt – what a total JERK!
I’m not on the Torre bandwagon. Yeah he took good Yankee teams to the playoffs and won championships with them in the AL. His track record says he can’t manage in the NL. Yeah he’ll demand respect but how will he manage the game? How will he do with a number of young, unproven players? I love Torre as a person. He is a true class act but I’m not sure he’s what the Dodgers need. He doesn’t have a clear superstar or a true leader on the team. The Yankees won when they had Paul O’Neil and Clemens as the clubhouse leader and haven’t done much sense. If he does come, and it looks like he will, I’ll be eager to see how he handles his bullpen. He’s been known to overuse the pen and we have some young guys that should take up the majority of the pen next year. But when it all boils down to it, how can you fire Grady and not Ned. Remember, Grady had to manage the players Ned gave him. Yeah, Grady lost the clubhouse, but it was the players like Gonzo that really caused the uproar. I think Grady played everybody to try and keep that from happening. When it all fell through Grady played the kids mostly from there on out. So in my opinion, you can’t fire Grady without letting Ned go to.
Torre didn’t make the Yankees a good team – their farm system and money and front office that was slightly more competent than the Dodgers at the time did (I say slightly because they took Kevin Brown for his last two years).
Managers impact the following:
1) Whether you’ll destroy a pitcher
2) Whether you’ll use a pitcher in the right situation
3) How you handle the media
4) Deciding which players to play
5) Keeping the clubhouse sane
Torre deserves some respect for 3 and 5, although a lot of it has to do with Steinbrenner finally keeping his hands off for a bit. Beyond that, Torre doesn’t have a track record of patience with young players. But I think you have to consider 1, 2, and 4. He gets credit for trying Betemit at different positions and for moving Damon out of center field, but so what.
Grady Little’s problem was that he couldn’t stand up to Ned Colletti and say “you’re an idiot,” and then bench Juan Pierre. He can handle players reasonably well unless they’re hopeless, like Gonzo or Kent, and frankly, winning takes care of a lot of that.
I think Buster Olney wanted to write about the Dodgers. That’s nice, but Josh, please stop him from making stuff up.
Fire Ned and Grittle! Whoever replaces them , it can’t be worse.
With Ned, the front office is much worse than most in baseball. The guy is a baffoon and should follow Grady out the door. Grady’s fate was determined in large part by the Colletti acquisitions although he sure threw plenty of gasoline on the fire himself with his indecision and bumbling managing. If I were McCourt, I would be much more disappointed with Colletti than Little.
I can’t believe what the organization is doing rayt now…
it’s not a good treatment they are giving grady rayt now…
if they want grady out they should have said it to him before making some drama about hiring torre while grady is still the manager!
The dodgers don’t go quiet! they want to follow what the lakers are rayt now!
it’s fun! but it’s annoying!
then in the end nothing is going to happen!
The Dodgers better hope that Torre signs because I can’t see Grady coming back now even if they don’t fire him. This comes down to more than just not agreeing on how the man manages. If the Dodgers didn’t want him then they should have let him go and not picked up his option. This shows no class from the Dodgers top officials. But once again, you can’t fire Grady without letting Ned go to. Ned put that team together and they failed big time.
I can almost guarantee that Little was fired after the season, his locker and office have already been cleaned out.
If he had been fired at the end of the season something would have already come out. He would have put his self on the available managers block if that had happened.
Cameron, following your logic, it’s a good thing Little isn’t coming back. The guy is incompotent and needs to go. Hopefully Ned follows him out the door. I disagree with most posters saying that Torre isn’t a difference maker, not of of his teams were stacked. His ’96 squad only had 2 guys that hit over 20 HRs (Bernie 29, Tino 25) and only 2 starters with sub 4 ERA’s (Pettite 3.87 and Cone 2.88 in 11 games).
Maybe he his on the list, but nobody wants him.
If Grady is gone, why is Colletti still here? If reports are true that the negotiations with Torre are actually being conducted beyond Colletti, that should be a sufficient sign that Colletti won’t be entrusted with any major deal making. It should follow that what happened two years ago with Tracy and DePo should be another double play by McCourt. Colletti is really more culpable for the Dodgers’ downfall than Grady was.
FIRE THE worthless SOB COLLETTI!!!
I think Torre is one of those guys that player want to play for. And we also get Preston Mattingly’s dad, we can’t go wrong with him.
Most of you guys want a different manager, Gibson to name one. Do you think they’ll want to come to a team where they might get axed after they’ve been told for months that they’ll be back and that they’re part of the future? I doubt it. The Dodgers only hurt themselves when they pulled this stunt. Had Grady been fired the day after the season was over it would all be different.
Cameron, I personally thing when a manager has been told that there job is safe it is an omen. I really think Grady is smart enough to no that his job was no longer his, that he was on his way out.
If your boss tells you your job is safe and then a month goes by and he comes in a fires you, how do you think you’ll handle it?
Not good, but I guarantee along the way you will see the writing on the wall. But these days who’s job is safe.
cameron, we’re talking professional baseball here, not your run of the mill job… but some corporations do that and they still have no trouble finding replacements. A 4th place finish is unacceptable for our franchise, head’s need to roll for it, the next neck on the chopping block is Coletti’s. Managers and GMs know that their is no such thing as job security… call it an occupational hazard that comes with the position.
Clint Hurdle… just joking.
I understand that but it’s not right to tell somebody one thing and then do another. I don’t want Grady to be the manager but doing it this way is wrong. Plus it sends the wrong message to future candidates. Candidates that we may want.
Charris, looks like someone was listening to you, looks like they are moving Pierre to left field.
They have to move Pierre to make room for Andruw.
actually…
if the dodgers wants grady out they should have said it earlier!
why?
becoz we might have the better chance on getting Girardi!
dodgers organization has a hobby of making late and wrong decisions!
So who gets traded, Kemp or Ethier????
Kemp
Kemp for what 3b, or pitcher.?
Kemp, Pierre, 2 young pitching prospects and a young position play to Pirates for Bay and either Duke/ Gorzelanny/Grabow.
Kemp traded?
i have this feeling that if that happens alot of dodger fans will go and support the giants instead!
i don’t want to talk about Kemp being traded! it’s annoying…
that will be the stupidest move ever if that happens!
and what more?
trade Kemp just to sign Andrew Jones?
i’ll laugh at that thought!
calauto, thats great news about Pierre. It is baseball common sense to put your weakest OF arm in left.
Kemp will not be traded ahead of Ethier unless we get a Cabrera type player in return.
I say Beltre for 3b.
why is the blog posting an hour behind right now?
daylight savings time is a week ahead.
LOL..one big fracking LOL…
how bad does Coletti look?
He goes ape **** on Drew for doing what is allowed to do via the contract he signed (agree with it or not, he was allowed to do it). He says how dare he go back on his word when asked by a reporter during the middle of the season if he liked it out here in LA…
Yet, lets go out and tell the world that Grady is the right guy for the job, after the season is complete and is in NO danger of loosing his job and goes so fars as exercising Little’s 08 option and proclaims him to be manager…and then firing Little and hiring Torre.
I think Coletti looks really unprofessional.
And as other point out, if this is not the doing of Coletti then why is Coletti there?
I feel Coletti is gone, just as soon as Torre is signed. And I will be stoked.
But the one who looks like the biggest piece of trash is our owner…McCourt sell and go home….I hate you, i really do. All you care about is perception. You talk about integrity, trust and respect but have none yourself.
McCourt stood behind Little and Colletti on the last day of the season, saying in a news conference that both would be back in 2008.
Asked why, McCourt pointed to what he called “core values” that he wanted to be the franchise’s foundation — he listed hard work, trust, integrity, respect, unselfishness and teamwork.
“I think they share the values I talked about repeatedly,” McCourt said of Little and Colletti. “When we do have an opportunity to talk — and we do talk as a group — and we talk about the things I’m saying, I don’t get a blank look. These gentlemen believe in what I’ve just articulated. At the end of the day, it takes people who are committed to one goal, which is winning. I think they share the same values and the same goal.”
For once Plashke has something right:
Little is a good man who deserves better. He quietly took plenty of bullets this season for a team that, let’s face it, Colletti pieced together as if blindfolded.
jungar did you say earlier that you work in Foothill Ranch?
Lee I didnt respond to your post a few days ago mainly just to let things go and not re-hash the same stuff. We agree on some stuff but disagree on other stuff. We both want the dodgers to succeed which is the main thing. And I will stick to my guns about never winning with Coletti in charge. He is in way over his head and hope he is let go or that I am proven wrong.
But sometimes I am too sarcastic. I don’t think anyone here are idiots or nieve, maybe just a bit hopeful and loyal..but not nieve. It was a poor choice of words.
Like we missed the boat on Vladimir, we can’t miss out on AROD, especially w/ Torre in the club house. I say maybe Furcal goes, Nomar at 3B, AROD at SS, Kent at 2B and Loney at first. I can live w/ Kemp, Pierre, and Ethier. That’s a pretty solid line-up and should win the West. LaRoche is part time with Nomar, and get the job next year when Nomar’s contract is up.
I do, yeah. In fact i could see fire, not smoke (well smoke too), but fire out my window at work. Not anymore of course and the air quality is much better thankfully.
It was like working at a dollar blackjack casion in Vegas here at work, totally gross.
is the pierre move final…if so where did you guys see it?
I work in Lake Forest bordering Foothill Ranch and my office still stinks like smoke. We should go grab some lunch one of these days.
Andruw will more than likely be playing CF next year.
Totally..were Neighbors. I work up right near Town Center Drive…let’s do it.
Just let me know a good day, I’m actually getting ready to go grub right now.
I really hope A-Rod signs elsewhere soon so we can dispense with the A-Rod to the Dodgers hysteria. His stats are above reproach but his Diva act and meddling agent are just too much for me. The World Series is over, and other than Red Sox nation, who cares? The real season is 162 games, many chances to sit in Blue Heaven on a summer night and just let go. I’m fine watching gritty players like Martin and Furcal. We got plenty of young sticks. Get some more pitching, shore up the defense, and the NL West is there for the taking.
totally agreed kahli!
Jungar, I totally agree with you that Ned is also on his way out. The fact that he hasn’t returned a single phone call for 5 consecutive days is eerily reminiscent of DePo’s silence before he was fired. Plus, I really don’t think he could possibly be on board for making a move (firing Grady) that makes him look so bad (via what happened last year with Drew), yet another indication that he’s out of the loop.
As for Arod, I’m really torn on the issue. I think signing Arod puts the games best player and future HR king in Dodger Blue, something that really can’t have a price tag. On the other hand, being a firm believer in economic efficiency, I think giving one player that large a share of the total team payroll is almost impossible to justify. Just off the top of my head, I think we could easily sign Jones, Pettite, and Schilling for total contracts that would be collectively cheaper and less risky in terms of length. Only the Jones contract would be for more than 4 years.
Finally, I really believe having Torre here will attract a lot of quality free agents, Schilling and Pettite just two examples.
Stay tuned.
Jungar–I don’t think anyone took your post the wrong way, I certainly did not. We agree on a lot of things–I’m just trying to be a glass is half-full kind of guy.
That being said, I am starting to feel silly for sticking up for the ownership. This whole thing is turning into a fiasco. Fire Grady and/or Ned, fine. Hire Torre, fine (though not my first pick). But don’t go flip-flopping about chaotically.
Good post Manny and Lee. Yeah at this point you have to wonder if anyone (you know how harsh I am on Ned, as harsh as others are on Depo) can succeed working under the McCourt group. Like I truly think that Depodesta would have offered more money to keep Beltre if he was allowed to but that is something we will never know. If he wasn’t tasked to bring the payroll down to 85 million things may have been different. I felt he did McCourt’s bidding and then things went south and they fired him…The same might be said for Ned this year. As Lee pointed out maybe he was tasked this year to simply try and remain competitive until the youth are all ready and he simply choose the wrong players…
Charris..how about Friday? We can play it by ear?
And totally Manny..I’ll take Jones and two arms for the A-rod contract anyday.
I will be able to forgive McCourt his duplicity if he goes ahead and fires Colletti as he well should. You have to question the handling of this whole affair – so reminiscent of being a politician (or a used car salesman), and my apologies to both, if we have any on this blog. If McCourt comes out of this with any credibility left, he’s definitely ready for big time politics – maybe after Arnold’s current term.
w0w! finally PLASCHKE got something rayt…
alot of things he said on that article are rayt…
about McCourt…
how they treat grady little…!
and if Torre comes to L.A it wont be the final move they would do…
im scared to be honest…
coz if that move means not getting ARod!
it would mean getting someone via trade! or signing a FA then trading a young gun to give a space for the person that they get from the trade!
This things aren’t fun anymore…
it’s really annoying…
I hope Ned is gone. Honestly, why wouldn’t he be? This move is clearly coming from McCourt. Why would Ned want to stick around when he is upended by McCourt after Ned professed his dying support for Grittle? My fear is that McCourt will not promote from within and hand the job to an even bigger idiot than Ned. Even if Torre back out now, Grittle is gone, so thats a good thing.
that they sign*
The Dodgers need to trade some of their young pieces for proven players if they want to contend for a world series. Face it, you can’t keep all of them and all of them won’t turn out to be superstars. We need to trade some of them while we still can. If we keep waiting they may play themselves out of top prospects status. Then you won’t get anything for them.
the only thing right about plaschke is his spelling of right.
rayt jan?
lol
just f-ing with you. Are you fired up for the Lake Show tonight?
If we keep waiting they may play themselves out of top prospects status.
—
Cameron do u think Loney’s (for example) value (trade wise) is higher today than it was this time last year?
rayt jason… LOL
yeah! im looking forward for tonights game!
i don’t expect them to win the game coz i think Kobe doesn’t want to stay anymore!
im excited to watch Bynum though!
Go LAKERS!!!
Go DODGERS!!!
Martin, Bills and Brox should be untouchable.(And probably Loney because you don’t have that kind of glove come along everyday) We should listen to any offer that doesn’t deal with those 3 or 4.
But to answer your question: yes Loney’s is higher but he’s just one player. Either for instance isn’t worth as much now because he doesn’t look more than an average outfielder. Last year the scouts were all over him, now he’s just another outfielder.
Andre is not just another outfielder, Andre will be a good ballplayer for many years to come.
(And probably Loney because you don’t have that kind of glove come along everyday)
so u mean if Loney doesn’t have the glove u’ll want him traded?
Look at the numbers man!
the Kid can hit!
The Kid has power and it just starting to develop!
There are alot of players that can hit that you could replace him with but his glove is special.
Either is a .280-.300, 20-25 HR guy. That’s an average player. He doesn’t have blazing speed or a rocket arm. He’s average.
yeah i know…
but for the dodgers the biggest problem is offense..
so if u take him out of the lineup what will ur lineup look like?
are u going to give Nomar his 1B job back?
I do get your point and agree with it, the reason to have a strong farm system is to win at the big league level. No one cares (or very few people) if Jacksonville wins the double A playoffs..etc.
Andre is at least slightly above average in terms of baseball skills. His low salary makes him a valuable player right now though.
cameron… are your thoughts on Matt Kemp still the same? Would you still not mind seeing him get traded?
My take on him is still the same but I wouldn’t just go trade him for anybody. But if we could get either a good third baseman or outfielder and a good pitcher for him then I wouldn’t mind seeing him go. Don’t get me wrong, the guy can hit and run but he doesn’t judge flyballs well and I’m not sure if he’ll be mentally able to play so many high pressure games at the big league level. Not to mention he has been linked to attitude problems.
Cameron, Andre has a hose, he had like 10 outfield assist
I think we have an excellent chance of bringing in Leo Mazzone as pitching coach now. I’m really rooting for that!
I don’t think Matt Kemp will be traded. I think Torre will be thrilled to have a young 5-tool player like that.
We will probably acquire a veteran third basemen either through free agency or a trade.
The pitching staff could see some changes. Andy Pettitte seems like a very real possibilty. The Dodgers would probably have to eat Loaiza’s contract though.
I highly doubt we’ll get Rivera. Saito is the best closer in baseball in my opinion.
I love Joe Torre. But as I said earlier the way McCourt has handled this is totally disrespectful to Grady Little. I think McCourt probably got really jealous watching Boston this postseason and just had to make a splash for his ego. I think he probably contacted Torre within the last 72 hours and just made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. I don’t think this was in the works for weeks, Little would have been fired by now if that was the case.
this is what i would like to happen or would be happy with happening. now not all of it is in the dodgers control but i can hope.
getting torre may be worth it just to lure free agents.
pierre to left
sign hunter
kemp in right
young the fourth outfielder
trade ethier and maybe a prospect or two for a good young pitcher (not necessarily a starting pitcher…depending on who)
i would like a-rod but doubt we can have him and hunter. also doubt we will really make a move for him…
so in the spring it’s nomar vs. andy. i think one of them will take control.
sign petite and schilling, though i think he will resign with boston.
let me know what you agree on, disagree on, and what you think can or will realisticly happen
Tim Kurkjian reports from a source that Grady Little and the Dodgers have parted ways. Joe Torre will take over as manager although that is not official as there are contract issues to sort out. But, Little will NOT be the manager of the Dodgers in 2008. Also, Little did not want to be a lame duck manager and it was a mutual decision to part ways.
Tony Jackson also reporting Grady is gone. See TJ’s blog:
http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/archives/2007/10/its_official_gr.html
“The Dodgers have scheduled a conference call for 4 p.m. [today], at which time they are expected to announce the firing of manager Grady Little after two seasons at the helm.”
I wouldn’t want Pettite.. He is injury prone and way past his prime. I’d rather keep Loiaza than bring in Pettite.
Wow get this more big sports news:
“Chick Hernandez of Comcast SportsNet is reporting that a trade is being finalized that would send Kobe Bryant and Brian Cook to the Washington Wizards in exchange for Nick Young(wizards 1st round pick and USC product), Caron Butler, Antwaan Jamison, and a 2008 2nd round pick. The embattled superstar, Bryant and management have been seeking to part ways ever since the Lakers title hopes were had diminished. There are still unresolved salary cap issues, but at the moment, the deal looks imminent.”
YES!!!!! ARENAS AND KOBE!!!!! WIZ ALL THE WAY BABY!!!!!
O yea I forgot to paste this part:
“the wizards have a press confrence scheduled for Friday when they are expected to make the trade public”
Swood no way, Lakers will not let him go without getting Arenas in return.
Tommorow is Halloween.
Does anyone know where i can find a Joe Torre mask? I want to wear it to work with a Dodger Jersey. Joe Torre to LA should be official in the next 30 minutes.
Spanner, what are you smoking??? Loaiza(a.k.a. the spanish tomko) better then Pettite???
I live in Orange County, Santa Ana.
Until Friday no way, that means Kobe wouldn’t play tonight. Won’t happen.
calauto I just copied and pasted that article
Tony Jackson now reporting Little gone as a “resignation”:
http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/archives/2007/10/correction_grad.html
“Correction: Grady is RESIGNING, not being fired
Just got a call from Camille Johnston setting me straight on that. Should make for an interesting conference call, especially given that Grady will actually be on it.”
Opening night is tomorrow calauto… and I think that will be kobe’s last game with the lakers
this org. is classless the way this went down. And Ned is clueless. We won’t win anything till he is gone. Mark it down.
Lakers open tonight, someone is hoping to get Kobe for those players.
opening night, a.k.a. tip off is in 4 hours, Lakers v. Rockets..not tommorow night
that was a joke swood rayt?
no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
calauto, all the players you guys are getting back are good… I think you guys might have gotten the better of the trade. Four quality, above average players for one spoiled superstar. Dangit Wiz!!!!
Resigning is a nice way of saying you are fired.
Oh really? I thought Wiz tipped off tomorrow night… thanks for informing me though… I will watch Kobe’s last game with the lakers.
Jan that was no joke. I’m gonna get a Kobe wizards jersey.
Swood no way, we had Butler, Jamison isn’t any good anymore, somebody is dreaming in Washington.
swood, I didn’t say he was better.. but they are somewhat comparable at this stage and we already have Loiaza under contract. I’d rather they go out and sign a younger player than bring in Pettite, who would probably get hurt quickly like schmidt did.
Nick Young is good. Butler is very good, as is jamison. 2nd round pick is good. Chick Hernandez was the first to break it. I don’t think ESPN has confirmed it yet.
i think the dodgers just made it look like that grady “resings”!
after what they did to grady it’s the least they could do to give some of gradys credibility back!
ok spanner now I see what you mean. thanks for the explanation.
Without Kobe, no reason at all to watch the Lakers. the Clippers will start having better attendence at staples.
AMF Grady!!! I hope Torre does better than his last few go arounds with NL clubs. I feel it’s still a step up from Grady though. Now lets see who comes with Joe. Mattingly could be a good hitting coach. The Wankees can keep Posada, and Rivera. No one in their right mind would want to give up Martin, or Saito. Pettite couldn’t cut the mustard in the NL when he was with Houston, so he can stay or go elsewhere. I forsee dark & troubled times ahead for the Wankee Evil Empire….I LOVE IT!!!!
the dodgers handled the grady situation about as bad as you can handle it. You may not like Grady as a manager but you have to agree with me when I say he didn’t deserve to be treated the way hes been treated over the last week. He’s not the best manager but he is a good person and he has been humiliated. The dodger organization should be embarassed and ashamed.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AssEBuID89Py16Vix7yY0G8RvLYF?slug=ti-brown103007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
i still don’t believe that!
i don’t want those players!!!
and the fact that nick young and Farmar wont get along the easy! LOL
seriously i want the chicago trade!
i don’t want the wiz trade even if arenas is included i don’t like arenas!
I am sad. It looks like Coletti is staying. Managers don’t mean much to me. Stupid GM’s do.
BYE GRADY!!!!!! I think I speak for the entire blog when I say thank you, and better luck with your next team.
Agreed jungar. I feel bad a little for Grady. There is a right way to get rid of someone and then there is a wrong way, and the dodgers definately handled this the wrong way. I really do hope Grady is successful somewhere esle and proves us all wrong about his managerial skillz.
What channel can I watch the Grady press conference?
I would have rather had Girardi or Dave Duncan instead of Torre.
Swood i rather hav Jim Tracy, and some guy named Paul DePodesta as GM.
Some quotes from a Keith Law article. Somewhat questionable given the Dodger’s commitment to youth. Are we going to go the way of the Giants and go old (Coletti mentored under Sabean, you know). Yikes!!………..
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3086783&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dlaw_keith%26id%3d3086783
“There’s a bit of concern when you’re trying to rebuild your roster around young players and your manager has a one- or two-year window until retirement. ”
“Torre showed himself to be a strong manager of a veteran club with defined roles for most of its members, above all those in his bullpen. But when presented with competitions for specific jobs, or with a bullpen without a clear hierarchy of usage, he struggled.”
Perhaps the biggest criticism of Torre is that he did not have any track record of developing young starters.
If the rumors of Torre’s going to the Dodgers are true, it may signal an organizational commitment to an older roster rather than a continuation of the youth movement that forced itself on the club this season. Matt Kemp and James Loney may be established by now, but players like Andy LaRoche and Tony Abreu are in more danger.
The Dodgers still have several holes to fill, including one or two rotation spots (depending on whether they cut bait on Esteban Loaiza and how Jason Schmidt recovers), but their bullpen is intact, including one Torre favorite in Scott Proctor. If the Dodgers choose to continue their youth movement, it will put the fates of players such as LaRoche, Abreu, Chin-Lung Hu, and even Chad Billingsley in Torre’s hands. It would certainly be interesting to watch; Torre hasn’t been handed difficult youth versus experience decisions on playing time since he left St. Louis.
calauto was that a joke?
Grittle is gone. Finally!
press conference is on espn news.
Yes swood, pretty good one huh!!!
YES!!!!! NED HASN’T OFFERED THE JOB TO ANYBODY ELSE!!!!! OFFER IT TO DAVE DUNCAN!!!!!
JJRiley22 — From that same artcile I referenced……
Mattingly has zero managerial experience at any level, and his tenure as a hitting coach in New York was not a successful one, so there wasn’t any specific reason to recommend him as a manager.
haha calauto… I am laughing not only at your joke, but the fact that you guys gave us Kobe… lol
well what can i say but bye grady!
i feel sorry for him! he is a good man! and i know even if u guys don’t know that grady loves thos organization!
i can always see his reactions! he loves the dodgers!
anyway! i can accept having Torre here but pls Mr.McCourt! we don’t need Colletti here!
can we use the same term for him? instead of firing just make it look like “resigning”?
this*
well said jan. I don’t think we’ve hired Torre yet. I would personally rather have Duncan. More important then the new manager I think will be the offseason moves at 3B, in the starting rotation, etc.
Good idea, have Ned resign next. 🙂
NBA sleeper team- New Jersey Nets
NBA finals- Wiz vs. Suns
Wiz in 7 games.
I know everyonbe here is asking for Coletti to resign. The only alternative mentioned for his job is Jockerty.
Does Zach Randolph still play for the blazers?
Jockerty kills Ned.
I heard Torii Hunter said he wanted to go to the ATL because there was a large African American population… WOW!!!!
In reading the ESPN news about Little’s resignation, two things stood out to me.
First, Little is either lying or quitting. Here’s the reference from the article….
“When asked if rumors of Joe Torre taking over had an influence on his decision, Little replied, “None whatsoever.””
OK, if we believe that, then he quit. Flat out quit. If we don’t believe that, he’s lying.
Second, Coletti’s statements about a manager….
Colletti would not say if Torre was the leading candidate to take over.
“We’ve talked to other people a little bit to guage their level of interest because talking to Grady at the end of the season I wasn’t sure he was coming back,” he said.
When pressed to name the candidates, Colletti said, “We’ll talk about where we go from here at a later date.”
As for reports that the Dodgers have negotiated with Torre, Colletti said, “That’s not accurate.”
OK, if we believe that, maybe the Dodgers are taking their time and talking to other manager candidates (Gibby, Duncan, and others mentioned here by you guys). Even so, it still seems there is little (no pun intended) direction here at the top. Torre looked to be the 2nd choice behind Girardi meaning we are in the same boat before we hired Little (wasn’t he like the 3rd choice behind others?). If Girardi was 1st choice, it appears we were going towards youth; if Torre was next, it appears we are going towards a more mixed or older team. In any case, which one is it?
If we don’t believe Ned, maybe that’s just the standard answer he has to give (but a bit misleading based on all the reports). But then again, maybe they are taking their time.
My thought is to hire quickly.
How can anyone trust anything that comes out of McCourt or Coletti mouth? Please guys take it all with a grain of salt. I don’t belive any of it.
Torre is signed, it’s just a matter of working out the details.
Ned, to save his job is spinning a stupid PR story to take the heat of the fact that in 4 seasons since owning the team we have had 3 GM’s and now 3 different managers.
If, as has been reported, Colletti actually made an offer to Girardi before the Yankees did, and Girardi chose to accept the same contract from the Yankees, it just further points out Colletti’s incompetence and lack of credibility in the baseball community. This is also the same guy who chose to believe that Drew wouldn’t opt out of his contract and then set off in a panic to sign Pierre and Gonzo – both very bad moves in retrospect. Why is this clown still around negotiating with anybody?
Girardi choosing the Yankee’s over the Dodgers isn’t really a shock considering his past and current history with the yankees, and in fact, it’s a no brainer if you’re Girardi, especially if the money and contract are equal.
You can’t pin the blame on Ned for that one. Blame him for all the other signings all you want, but it’s a shame that Ned didn’t stick a gun to Girardi’s head to make him take the Dodgers deal just to show is competence and credibility.
Casino383 — I agree with you. In Girardi’s case, if he feels the Yankees are in a similar mode like the Dodgers (movement to youth with vets mixed in), he’s probably more comfortable in that regards.
his*
dodgerjoel,
being a former yankee, and current broadcaster, and his familiarity with the city, its players, its management and staff, a blind man could have seen that Girardi was going to choose the Yankees over the Dodgers.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers31oct31,1,248298.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=5&cset=true
As far as Im concerned, this is a good thing. It may not be handled the best of ways, but as Kobe said, “Business is business” We have an opportunity to bring in a HOF manager and most likely a LOT of his coaching staff. Quite possibly, with Scott Boras racing to the Big Show on ESPN Radio, A-Rod is looking to end up in Dodger blue as well. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a Dodger break the record of a Giant. I know I was extremely skeptical of Coletti and Little at the end of the season. Now that Little is gone, NC is trying to save some face from last year’s offseason.
Here’s an interesting little tid-bit. The year after Little left the Red Sox, Boston won the WS. The first year Torre came into the Yankees, NY won the WS. Looks like Little carries the curse of the Bambino wherever he goes.
well Tweedledumb is gone now we just need Tweedledee to “resign” and the Dodgers are moving in the right direction. If today doesn’t illustrate how much of a joke Dodger ownership and management is then nothing will.
The only way Ned can save face from last year is if he gets ride of Juan Pierre.
Josh in all honesty…most of us wanted Grady gone but the way this was handled by the Dodgers was a complete joke. It was unprofessional and disrespectful to Grady. You guys can spin it all you want but Grady was essentially forced out. The Dodgers organization should be ashamed of themselves. I know i’m ashamed of them.
Even if getting rid of Grady is the right move, which i think it is, the way it was done just sours me on the whole deal.
New York Post reports it’s official….3 years 14.5 million dollars.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10302007/sports/joe_torre_to_manage_dodgers.htm
we can all see that grady is a good person!
after all this things that happen he chose to keep his mouth shut even if his reputation is mutilated by the organization…
this is unacceptable… this organization doesn’t have respect for other peoples feelings!
i can say that coz the organization never listens to what the fans wants! and it proves that they never care!
all they care is money!
Although I am glad that Little won’t be back as manager next year, I, too, feel a little bad for him and the way things were handled. If it’s true that Torre is the next manager, I hope that works out well. I’m not sure if he’s the best choice for a youth movement, but he is certainly someone that the kids can respect. So next year is looking better, but please, please don’t sign A-Rod or Jones!! Spending that kind of money on one player would be very, very foolish. And I wouldn’t deal with Scott Boras anyway. Let all his clients find other fools to sign them. We don’t need the kind of greed and selfishness that he instills in his clients. They only think of themselves, and that doesn’t produce a winning chemistry in the clubhouse. There are other cheaper ways to improve the club and provide a winning team attitude and chemistry. We should learn a lesson from Colorado and only sign players who have character and will think and play as a team.
Jan & Max I agree completely with both of your posts about how the dodgers handled the “resigning” of Grady. I know I may be in the minority in this blog but I do want ARod.
Redfox, chemistry is overrated, the numbers .310, 55 and 150 however are not. With ARod we solve the two biggest problems that have killed us since Beltre left(a quality 3B and a big time home run hitter). I think ARod puts us over the top and makes us the favorite in the NL. He is worth the 30 mil if he is able to help us make a run deep into the playoffs.
I am stuck on the “team chemistry” thing. I really don’t think ARod would hurt our team chemistry any more then Jeff Kent did when he was signed…
ARod would help the dodgers alot!
and i just want to make this point to all those people who said that ARod will not be able to inspire the young players we have…
what more inspiration would you want if ur a kid just starting to play in the big league and u have one or maybe the greatest player in baseball this days playing along side you!
what?
ARod will inspire those kids and they can learn from him!
but i will agree that the only problem on this signing if it happens is the money! it will cost the organization alot of money!
You guys are amazing. You scream for Grady’s head, and when it’s handed to you, you sanctimoniously **** the organization. Hypocrites!!!
I think it’s for the best that he’s gone, and praise Coletti and McCourt for having the courage and good sense to make it happen. Now let’s see about putting it all together next season. I’d love to see ARod in Dodger Blue, but hate dealing with Boras!
i dont think mcCourt wants to pay that much money either. he wants to use the rest to build more bathrooms and food stands. haha!
maybe miguel cabrera?
yeah! that’s a great point swood!
does any of u thinks jeff Kent will respect Torre?
come on! this guy just made grady little life miserable after the comment he made!
about his decisions!
i hope he retires! or maybe we can trade him to the mets for a relief pitcher!
Guess I need to do some reading here as to why people dont want A-Rod. I understand the whole post season performance issue, so that is one thing to take a look at. But that at least implies that we can get to the postseason, which we were unable to do. A-Rod has never played in the NL (except for Interleague “***”). That might be a bit of a better fit for him since it seems that the AL has the stronger pitching, no NY media pressure, and adds protection to guys like Loney, Kemp, and Martin.
If we can get “The Don” to come on as a hitting coach, holy **** that would be sweet, look what he did with the Yanks last year. I dont mean to be ******* on the teet of the Yanks, but their offensive production was not the problem last year, it was the pitching.
If A-Rod signs, this could be the lineup.
1. Furcal
2. Kemp
3. Loney
4. Rodriguez
5. Ethier
6. Martin
7. Pierre
8. Abreu? (2B)
Overall, this gives us some pretty good speed throughout the lineup, with all positions (except 3 and 5) having the possibility of 20 stolen bases, and 1 & 7 40+. If we can limit the strikeouts and play small ball effectively, this has the possibility of being a very good run producing team with the added power and protection that A-Rod brings.
Redfox, yes there is the question of team chemistry, and I agree, dont sign Jones. Move Kemp to center and move Pierre out to left if you cant get rid of him. But as the Rox showed this year, chemistry is important but so is offensive production, which the Rockies had none in the WS. (Again, point out A-Rod’s lack of postseason production) Thats just my take on things though.
ebbetsfld
everyone is happy that grady is gone!!!
McCourt and Ned doesn’t have the courage or good sense!
the treatment they give for a good person like grady is unacceptable! that’s the problem to that!
man im just so ashamed of the organization for doing that!
If baseball were an individual sport I would want ARod, but baseball is a team sport and his ego will be counterproductive for any team he plays for…not to mention the inflexibility that any GM would have with roster manueverability. He hurt the Rangers and he would hurt us.
I think too many people have jumped to conclusions re: the Little resignation. Isn’t it possible that…
1. Grady stated before the season was over, that this was his toughest season. He was obviously emotionally drained by the losing, the in-fighting, and the criticism of his tactics in close games.
2. He wants out of the situation despite a vote of confidence from McCourt, but implies at the end of the season that he will stay aboard if that’s what McCourt wants.
3. McCourt & Colletti start interviewing possible new managers to help Grady exit.
I didn’t notice any animosity from the clip I heard of their conference call. It sounded very mutual and low-key. This scenario would fit with what was posted by dodgerjoeliz, above.
this is classic…..
all season, people were crapping on grady, calling him dumb, an idiot, making fun of his expressions, quotes, the way he looks, the way he walks, and most of all, second guessing his every move, and i mean every single move, good or bad.
Above all, the fire Grady calls were like a daily ritual on this board, and it always switched from fire Grady, to fire ned, to i hate juan pierre, and back and forth like clockwork, to the point where the meaning of your frustrations didn’t resonate strong enough anymore, and lacked any credibility…
Now that you get your coveted wish and Grady is gone, you switch your hate towards management and ownership for making it happen. Classic.
Look, grady is gone, and if he was forced out, which is likely, or at least a part of the reason for his resignation, he should have spoken up at the conference call and said how he truly felt if he felt he was wronged in any way by Dodger management and ownership. He should have let the Dodgers have it, no holds barred like most of you do every single day during the season. But nope, he shut his mouth, praised this organization and the future, confirmed that if he wanted to be the Dodgers manager next year, he would have been able to have been, and took his buy-out money and rode off into the sunset to retire and play with his grand-kids like he said.
Good for him. He knew that he probably wouldn’t get an extension this upcoming year anyways, and with 1 year left on his deal, being a lame duck manager on a team with young players wasn’t going to cut it, and he would have been let go anyways at seasons end, or if the Dodgers got off to a slow start, right on the spot.
Geez..some of you won’t be satisfied until Frank Mccourt comes out and says it, point blank, “I fired Grady Little because the knowledgable mini-GM bloggers at insidedodgers have requested it all season long. Next in line is Juan Pierre being DFA’d, just to make them happy”.
Get real.
lastly,
it’ll be an interesting offseason for the Dodgers for sure. Joe Torre becoming our manager will hopefully be the first move in a winter full of many moves. Our beloved Dodgers need to be back on top, and I just hope that if Ned is still our GM, he makes the right moves and puts us in a position to win this upcoming year. Obviously, some will argue that with Ned, we will never win. Well, if that’s your mindset and thinking, then don’t follow or watch the Dodgers until he is long gone, if and when that happens.
Obviously, none of us control who is in management and running our club, so until one of us obtains that power to pick who we want, Ned is our GM, and i expect him to do what’s good for our organization so that we will be playing in October once again.
thank you Casonid. Long day for me and I wasnt able to articulate what you just said. But you just said what I had been feeling about this board.
I find it very hard to understand why so many of you are so anxious to throw $30 million dollars a year for 10 years or whatever Boras can extort to sign A-Rod. To me, that is obscene. No player is worth that kind of money. And certainly not one who jumps a good team for his own personal gain. Where is his loyalty to his team mates, owners, and fans? The Yankees were his best chance for a World Series ring, but he doesn’t even wait to negotiate with them before filing for free agency. Who needs a player like that?? But the bottom line is that the Yankees did NOT win with him. What makes you think the Dodgers would? As far as being a help to the young players, yes, he would certainly help them become Boras clients and become as greedy and self-centered as he is. Learn a lesson from the Yankees. They don’t want him on their team anymore. And the Boston team and fans don’t want him either. Doesn’t that tell you anything?
Also, I wonder how much this board thinks it had to do with the DFA of Tomko. He did look great in Padre Brown(?) on the final sunday of the season. LOL. Most likely, pitching Peavy in the tie breaker cost SD the wild card.
casinod383, like always you are wrong. I wasn’t blasting the organization for getting rid of Grady. It was a good move. Just the way it was handled was horrible.
The way the dodgers handled this was a hit at their credibility. They did this to Grady and to Depo. If you believe the spin the Dodgers are putting on this that Grady resigned you are an idiot. He was forced out, which im glad he’s gone but then should have just fired him instead of the way things went out. It’s a creditability issue. No one is going to want to come manager here or be the GM here if the Dodgers keep conducting business like this. It’s just more proof that McCourt and Ned have no idea what they are doing.
yep, SD really stunk it up during the last series of the year at Milwaukee when they could have kept the Rockies out of the playoffs and avoided that 1 game playoff with the rockies to begin with.
Biggest mistake that the Dodgers made was making the announcement on the last day of the season about the retention of Grady. It was about as premature as a 12 yo boy during his first “time”.” That announcement should have waited until after the postseason was over and they could get a feel for what other teams were going to do with their management. We just signed a HOF manager, its a good day to be a Dodger fan.
max_power,
Next time you try to make a point and express your opinion on something, particularly to me, there is no need to start off with the “like always you are wrong” tagline, or any other form of putting another poster down through a witty and sarcastic comment.
I find it odd that your last post addressing this Grady issues centers around “credibility”, when you yourself are surely lacking it with witty and snide comments addressed to posters like myself and as shown above.
Maybe you need to gain some credibility yourself, and refrain from your little childish remarks and your opinions, like the one above which are surely valid, will come off a bit better and seem more thought out and coherent.
Afterall, you are the one who just a few weeks ago said you were done with this board, and following the Dodgers because you wanted to focus on school and you were fed up watching and following our hopeless dodgers. But, lo and behold, you show up a couple days later and bless us with your return. Thus, i’ve learned to take your statements with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, other posters and those who follow this blog won’t, and that unfortunately, may hurt your “credibility”, which is so important to you all of a sudden.
With Torre coming over I have a feeling the Dodgers will sign Andy Pettite, make a run at A-Rod and if they don’t sign A-Rod go after Jones. Moving Out Machine to Left and getting rid of Ethier for an arm.
casino, the only person lacking anything here is you and its a brain.
fezzik..
agreed on the announcement part, and on the manager part. Regardless if you think Torre is a good fit, or a good manager or not, he does have a history, and he commands respect. He also commands a hefty price tag, and our management ponying up and paying a manager upwards of $5 million a year shows that our team is committed to winning.
Hopefully Torre can get it done here in LA like he did in NY, and pretty soon, hopefully in the near near near future, we will have our own parade in LA soon.
casino, the only person lacking anything here is you and its a brain.
Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | October 30, 2007 06:29 PM
I could copy and paste my own post above, but it your response just furthers my point. What next? are you going to throw crayons at me?
Just leave me alone, and i’ll leave you alone. If you notice, through the past couple of months, i’ve never addressed you directly. I just had to respond to your last post because it was uncalled for.
But it appears you like to steps over the bounds established by this forum and Josh in his moderating. So go ahead and do what you want, just leave me out of it.
but your*
anyone know when free agents can begin signing contracts? I’m thinking somewhere around November 13th-15th, but anyone know for certain?
With the signing of Torre, I think A-Rod is all but official. It is going to go fast and quick. And seeing the way Boras has acted over the last couple days with announcements and stuff, I have a feeling that we will know before mid november. Boras just about tripped over himself getting onto Mason and Ireland’s(sp?)this afternoon. The hosts put the request in earlier in the day and Boras committed to doing a segment in the middle of the show. Something is up in LA with A-Rod and it is looking pretty favorable for the REAL LA team. Unfortunately, I didnt get to hear the segment due to my work shift, so I dont expect any announcement was made, but Boras is acting pretty chummy towards LA media, selling his client possibly? We’ll know soon enough.
Did anyone hear the interview from Scott Boras on ESPN w/John Ireland and that other guy? I have to say I would love to see around in a Dodger blue!! Gives us the power we have been lacking and puts a solid 3B on the field. Now all of you are big on I dont want to spend all that kind of money on A-Rod so on and so forth. But as Boras pointed out in the interview and I must admit he is right A-Rod pays for himself. He brings up the ratings, tickets would sell(attendance before A-Rod; 2003 3,465,600/ Average from 04-07 4,096,480) so yes ticket sales would increase as well as memorabilia and souvenirs. So why not go after A-Rod? Yea, Boras might have added a little extra ketchup to his fries but A-Rod without a doubt bring in a lot of revenue which will help pay for his salary!
Bring Torre, Mattingly and A-Rod aboard!
No one is worth 30 million.
But a soccer player by the name of Beckem is worth 50 million, while playing a handfull of games.
Bring on A-Rod to LA.
Give the fans something to cheer about. Everyhome game will be a sell out.
And after A-Rod finishes his career in dodger blue, he can run for governer.
max- Your comment:
“The way the dodgers handled this was a hit at their credibility. They did this to Grady and to Depo. If you believe the spin the Dodgers are putting on this that Grady resigned you are an idiot. He was forced out, which im glad he’s gone but then should have just fired him instead of the way things went out.”
…is totally baseless and without fact. Apparently, you are the one spinning it, not the Dodgers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?&brand=null&videoId=3087019&n8pe6c=1
im glad Grady’s gone believe me…i’ve been asking for this since he was basically hired. Just the way they did it is bad business. IF they keep doing this no one is going to want to come here. Thats my beef. It’s a hit at the credibility of McCourt and the Dodgers.
max- thanks for the link. Stark’s perspective is completely opposite what I read here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/30/bc.bbn.little.resigns.ap/index.html
If Grady was fired, or forced to resign, why isn’t he bitter?
I don’t know how many people felt the same way I felt. When I heard Grady Little resigned I wasn’t suprised, but when I heard the reasons why, I was very suprised.
I can understand Ned Colletti perfectly, when he said that since he wasn’t sure if Grady was coming back next year, he didn’t want to be left empty handed if Grady decided to quit, so he had to see what was out there. Let it be known what the cercumstances were.
apparently, Grady was only paid $600,000 last year, and was set to earn $750,000 this year. Now, that isn’t chump change, but with all the money going around to other managers in baseball, including rookie managers, that might have been one of his frustrations, or “personal” reasons. Heck, he probably saw the light and knew that no extension was coming, and this would be his last year, and uncomfortable spot for sure. Thus, he probably took the buy-out from the dodgers for this upcoming year and cut his losses. Getting paid and being able to spend time at home playing with his grand-kids is not too shabby considering what his options where. I’d be interested to know how much he was bought out for. I’m thinking it was a pretty hefty chunk of his expected 2008 salary, and thus, one of the main reasons why he’s not spilling the beans on what really went down, and why he didn’t seem bitter in today’s conference call aired on ESPN.
pierreeast…agreed.
By the way, I just caught espnnews, and Tim Kurkjian just said that Ned was told at the end of the season that Grady said that he wasn’t sure if he wanted to manage the Dodgers anymore.
I’m kind of suprised that this wasn’t leaked to the media at the end of the season and the possibility of Grady not wanting to manage anymore.
The only thing i can think of is that it was kept in-house and not told to many people outside the inner Dodger circle, and thus the media did not get a hold of it, and as a result, us fans didn’t know or have any idea that Grady had reservations about this upcoming season and his position as manager.
Thus, when all this Torre talk cam about, and Grady leaving, it was all somewhat shocking to me, and probably most of you as well.
Just goes to show you that there are a lot of things behind the scenes that we as fans do not know about, or have access to. Just makes me appreciate how much inside information and tidbits this blog and Josh in particular provide to us fans throughout the season.
came*
From the LATimes:
Third base coach Rich Donnelly thought Little resigned as a result of what he endured over a trying season.
“He was beaten down,” Donnelly said. “He said, ‘I don’t know if this is worth it because I’m miserable.’ ”
Donnelly said it pained Little to be forced to move down veteran players in the batting order or sit them.
“I don’t think he wanted to,” Donnelly said. “He was forced to because the guys weren’t doing their jobs.”
Gee, it really pained ME to have see Nomar and his 1 homerun hit third half way into the season! These guys are professional athletes. If you don’t have the spine to sit them when they aren’t performing, then you are not fit to manage. Period. No word of Little being pained by sitting performing young players.
YES !!! GRady is gone!!!YYYEEESSS!!! Bring on Torre!! Bring on A-Rod !!!Best news I’ve heard all month…
I’ve got my doubts about the story concerning Grady’s resignation. I agree this should have been handled in a better way and credibility might be a future problem. Little deserved better treatment.
let Josh take a couple of weeks off to have a baby and all h**l breaks loose! a lot of people on this blog would not be happy if you hung them with a new rope. You wanted Grady gone, he’s gone now quite complaining. it sounds as if the Dodgers were perfectly willing to honor his contract but HE saw the writting on the wall and stated his lack of support from fans,(that’s you guys and your daily call for his dismissal). You call for the organization to DO SOMETHING to win, then you want to keep all of the young players knowing that there is not enough talent there to win. look at the team that won,a perfect mix of rookies and vets. you said you were glad that Depo was gone then spent the past 2 years saying that the stats were what was important, and then shout don’t sign Arod who by the way has all of those letter things (obs, av/risp etc) that you like to quote. in the 2 years that i have followed this blog there is not a d***ed thing that management has done that has pleased most of the people on this blog. in fact many of you have switched positions so fast that you must suffer from whiplash. I have been a Dodger fan for 50 years and i say to Dodger Management, hire Torre, sign Arod, extend the good pitchers, dump the deadwood, keep the best of the kids and trade some for vets that can fill roles and get the job done. Lets win and prepare for next year, it’s been done before and can be done again. as for this blog, a lot of you guys need to understand that if they fire Ned you are not in line for the job, give the constant gripping a rest. Josh if the blog doesn’t inprove and become more positive SHUT IT DOWN. there finally after 2 years i’ve finally said it. if anyone would like to email me in private and tell me how STUPID i am do so at sabre3@mebtel.net. thanks
Do you guys think that if A-Rod does come to LA that he’ll play SS and we ship Furcal somewhere or do you think we keep Furcal and A-Rod?
Just gotta hope that Ned will be canned and Kent will retire. Then we can get down to serious baseball.
Team is going nowhere with clowns like Kent and Ned in the organization.
sabre, It’s more simple than that, win and the complaining will stop. This is baseball and all fans should have a win now mentality. Frankly, we haven’t won a World Series or a playoff series for that matter in 20 years so the frustration is warranted. Our team has one of the largest fan bases in the bigs and we have consistently had one of the largest payrolls and maybe somebody like you can remember the glory days where our team consistently contended but I can’t. I have bled Dodger blue since the ’86 season and with the exception of the improbable title we won in ’88, the Dodgers have consistently broken my heart. Who are you to question how fans should react to their own team? If the Dodgers want to shut us up then do it by fielding a title contending team. You may choose to keep your mind in the “glory days” but I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Dodger fans are sick and tired of mediocrity.
As for Grady Little, I say good riddance, if you don’t have the spine to play the best players on your team, you don’t belong coaching at any level! I don’t care that he parted ways like this, I’m glad a dead weight manager is out of our organization. Torre might not be the greatest but he can coach circles around Grady “the buffoon” Little.
A-Rod should be a in a Dodger blue next year at 3RD and have Furcal at SS. That will be the best left side in baseball by far. Let Kent go or hope he retires!
Hope Mattingly can become a Dodger also, the young kids will learn a lot from this guy.
I also wish that Kent would simply retire; otherwise, he should be subject to strict performance standards. If he’s no longer pulling his weight, it’s time to step aside and let Abreu show what he can do on a consistent basis. The same for Nomar, if he even gets to start the season at third. I wish we could just trade Nomar off to an AL team for the remaining season that he is under our contract. Ned unfortunately looks like he will remain here for the season at least. He should be charged with trading Pierre at all costs, so that the team can be remade. If that proves impossible, the first and most credible thing that Torre should do is to sit Pierre in the very first game of the season, so that his consecutive streak is broken and he is shown that the streak will no longer come into account when considering his utility on the club.
Is torre 7 times better as a manager than Little? Based on pay the dodgers feel he is. I guess we will find out. As many of you know I don’t think managers matter all that much. I never called for Grady to be fired myself, just Coletti. Talent wins and if having Torre as manager helps attract real talent, not over the hill has beens, then this move will pay off.
I just warn you all now that in 14 seasons as a NL manager Torres teams made it to the playoffs 1 time.
—
And like him or not (A-rod), this is pretty incredible.
Here’s what I do know: In the course of his crazy career, the guy has averaged .306 with 44 homers and 128 RBIs over 162 games (and that’s another thing — the guy plays every day. Since 2001, he’s averaged 159 games a year). He’s been successful 81 percent of the time he tries to steal a base. He’s averaging about 128 runs scored per season, which is more than Rickey Henderson, Ty Cobb or Pete Rose.
like wise, this is not incredible:
Since Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS – the night Boston began its epic comeback from three games down against the Yankees – Rodriguez has come to the plate with 38 runners on base, over the span of 59 at-bats. He left every single one on base, going 0-for-27, right through the Yanks’ Division Series loss to Cleveland this month.
The two biggest roles a NL manager plays on a team is knowing when to pinch hit/bunt and how to use his bullpen. Torre has been know to overuse his bullpen. When Proctor came over last year he was drained because Torre had used him way to much in NY. That’s the reason he struggled when we first got him. Brox was overused this year and that led to his bad stretch late in the season. If Torre can use the pen effectively and not overuse the horses out there then he should do fine. But we’ll just have to wait and see.
jungar, those are good numbers but I still don’t think I really want the A-Rod circus moving to LA. I would still rather see A. Jones and Pettite (short term) in Dodger blue and LaRoche given a fair look at 3rd. $30 million a season can get you 2-front line starters which in my mind are more valuable than A-Rod. Let SF make the mistake of paying A-Rod $30 mill for the next 10 seasons and I can almost guarantee 10 years of ********* for their franchise.
I’m on the no A-Rod bandwagon. 30 million for 1 player? Go out and get Jones or Hunter and a front line starter. We don’t need players that act like they’re above the game.
Yeah me too. (Jones and Pettit) I am just saying those are some pretty incredible numbers. I think he is coming, thats my gut feeling. I am not an A-rod fan at all, in fact I can’t stand him. But I would rather pay 30 million for him than 30 million a season for Pierre, Nomar, Gonzo and Hederickson for example.
There are no frontline starters to get. And Hunter will be a flop in LA. I don’t think he is anywhere near jones on Defense and his offense is helped in that maetrodome and even with the help he isnt that much better than Ethier would be.
The obvious hole (although I think very highly of laRoche )is 3b
.271/.324/.793ops Hunter
.263/.342/.839ops jones
.295/.357/.821ops ethier
funny line from NY Post:
‘…[Torre] got his desired exit, and now, on top of that, he’s landing a plum job: big market, plenty of talent, great weather, easy media, awesome celebrity scene. And, lest we forget, Scott Proctor, who will probably warm up in the bullpen during Torre’s introductory news conference
Josh,
No offense but this is the most pubiliciy the dodgers have had in years and you are no where to be found. I know everyone deserves a vacation (congrats on the new baby), but what good is a dodger blog by the VP of PR when he goes on vacation during the most exciting/ disfunctional time of the year!! Anyways hope you are back soon, and can provide some carity/spin to what is going on in this organization.
http://38pitches.com/2007/10/30/free-agency-weird/
Schilling lists LA as one of the cities he would play in if not re-signed by the Sox next year. How about a 1-2 year deal for Schilling? The guy’s a gamer, and shuts it down in the playoffs. Then trade Loiza, eat part of his $7-million contract, and keep Bills at #3 or #4 in the rotation so Schilling can have some days off.
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Schmidt
Schilling
Delicious. Even with question marks, delicious.
I know at first I wanted Hunter but now I’m leaning more toward Andruw. I think he’s coming anyways but I don’t think he’ll have another 2007 season. I’ve watched nearly every game he’s been in since his call up to the bigs. I guess over time the great things he does defensively become so common that you don’t realize how good he is until you actually watch other teams every night. He’ll hit his 30+ hrs and drive in 100 but he’ll save about 50 runs a year. Something you don’t find to often. So I’m all for Andruw. However I wouldn’t move Pierre to left, I’d move him out the door. I love his attitude and his work ethic but he just isn’t what the Dodgers need.
I’d rather see:
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Pettite
Schilling
Imagine how Pettite and Schilling would do facing the number 4 and 5 starters from the other teams.
Jungar said:
>And, lest we forget, Scott Proctor, who will probably warm up in the bullpen during Torre’s introductory news conference
LOL :-).
Josh: Where are you???? we need you! This is way past late October when you said you would be back. Hope all is well with baby and mom. Congrats! This thread is getting too big. You need to start a new new one.
I would sign a rod to play s.s. trade furcal, who makes 13 million, then my additional output is only 17 million next year. I would gamble a bit that la roche,abrue step up and play 3 rd base. if neither does, then you move a rod to 3rd and play hu at s.s.
we know that martin, loney, kemp and ethier will keep improving and ad more power.
hope everyone had a free taco from taco bell on jacoby ellsbury. he grew up here in madras oregon, but we don’t have a taco bell.
so no free tacos here. go dodgers
I’ll take the most prolific power hitter to ever play as our clean up hitter anyday!! Were the Los Angeles Dodgers if we get Arod we will easily exceed the 4 million mark that the McCourts want. Not only that, but I will order my Arod jersey the next day along with thousands of Dodger fans. THANK YOU grady for quitting. I have a off season to look forward too!! But especially WE have 08′ to look forward too!!
GO DODGERS!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s Go Dodgers!!!!
I can’t wait until mid February we the players start reporting.
P.S. what happen to the post that were telling us to stop posting Fire Grady that it wasn’t going to happen!! YES
We’re still nothing as long as we have Ned. You have to remember that Ned gave Grady the players.
cameron go back to being a bravas fan! Grittle played those old farts!
Why don’t you go to baseball school and learn something. Ned has no brain when it comes to baseball. He’s like a woman, he knows how to spend money, but doesn’t buy anything good.
Third base coach Rich Donnelly thought Little resigned as a result of what he endured over a trying season.
“He was beaten down,” Donnelly said. “He said, ‘I don’t know if this is worth it because I’m miserable.’ ”
Donnelly said it pained Little to be forced to move down veteran players in the batting order or sit them.
“I don’t think he wanted to,” Donnelly said. “He was forced to because the guys weren’t doing their jobs.”
Donnelly said that the Dodgers’ offensive shortcomings were such that at one point, he scribbled pitcher Brad Penny’s name in the eighth slot in the lineup in an August game in Cincinnati. Little later decided against the idea.
Thanks jungar all those wacky line ups were ALL penciled in by GRADY. baseball school? I don’t need to go there to know the manager’s job is to set the rotation, make the line ups, and use the bullpen all three things grady failed at.
I want to see A-Rod in a Dodger blue!! Gives us the power we have been lacking and puts a solid 3B on the field. Now all of you are big on I dont want to spend all that kind of money on A-Rod so on and so forth. But as Boras pointed out in the interview and I must admit he is right A-Rod pays for the vast majority of himself. He brings up the ratings on tv, tickets would sell(Yankee attendance before A-Rod; 2003 3,465,600/ Average from 04-07 while A-Rod was w/ NY 4,096,480) so yes ticket sales would increase as well as memorabilia. So why not go after A-Rod? Yea, Boras might have added a little extra ketchup to his fries but A-Rod without a doubt brings in a lot of revenue which will help pay for his salary!
Bring Torre, Mattingly and A-Rod aboard!
Can we just get this over with and sign A-rod. I have been wanting to get a personalised jersey with my last name-Rodriguez. So if he comes on board i can just go to any store and buy one.
If he does come on board, i wonder what number he would get? Would it be 13 like in New York or 3 which was his original number. But to make my life easier hope he gets 34.