The Untouchables

Officially, we now look to next season as it is no longer possible to make the postseason this year. It’s a huge bummer for everyone here and for all of you and there are plenty of ways to dissect what went wrong and what went right. Some of it is obvious, some of it is not so obvious, but all of it certainly going to be considered when Ned and his staff start planning for 2008.

However, several of you have already commented on this and I have to say, I disagree with the entire premise of Bill Plaschke’s column this morning. I obviously have pointed out when I agree with him and in this case I guess I’m just curious where he has come up with the idea that "the kids are no longer untouchable."

Was it from the December live chat that Ned had with fans when he said, "I wouldn’t want to say that anyone is an untouchable because you never know what offer may come your way. I do put great value in our young players, especially after we saw how they competed at the big-league level last year?"

Or was it from his chat with you all last month when he said, "If the right deal presented itself, we would be open minded to moving anybody?"

Ned has repeatedly said for the last year that there aren’t any untouchables and now we’re to believe that suddenly in one week, the team is going to change course. It just seems a bit odd to me. I truly have no idea if we’re going to trade a young player this winter, just as I was not involved in the trade discussions that went on around the deadline. But to characterize this in the fashion it’s been characterized and to hypothesize that Matt Kemp is the kid that will be traded just seems really out there.

Besides, can a "youth movement" reall "crash and burn," in a matter of a week, as Bill writes? I find that hard to believe.




    “Minnesota Twins left-hander Johan Santana may end up with the Los Angeles Dodgers in 2008. cited sources close to the team and claimed Los Angeles is considering an offer that would send lefty pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw and young outfielder Matt Kemp to Minnesota. Kemp would replace Torii Hunter in centerfield. Kershaw, who might be the top prospect in all of baseball, would step into the rotation for Santana.

    Source: “


    In all seriousness..good point Josh. Somehow, i think it’s Plashke trying to stir the pot with this article, and the timing of it is curious. He does this a lot with the Lakers, and it gets people riled up and emotional over the situation, and in turn, the blame comes on the organization/management/front office….

    if you need evidence..see the following posts in the comments below:



    thanks for posting that…i’d do it in a hearbeat if Johan will sign a lengthy extention for us upon being traded. Otherwise, the risk of him leaving through free agency after we give up 2 top guns in the Dodger system is too much to bear.

    Johan Santana is proven, and the best pitcher is baseball right now, and has been for a couple years.



    i feel u man!

    but ur one of the bloggers here who talks with sense and always ready with the rayt facts!

    If u go this blog is almost dead!

    Posted by: | September 26, 2007 09:43 AM


    I agree. To get a proven franchise player in his prime like Santana, if you can lock him up with a contract extension, is a no-brainer even if you have to give up two top prospects. Of course, if the Dodgers trade Kershaw, I’m sure he’ll become the next Cy Young.


    Trading Kemp is stupid!

    u’ll get a pitcher who is Very very very good! (santana)

    but u’ll lose one of the productive player u have on the team!

    who will replace Kemp!

    are we going to sign Hunter or Jones? are they going to sign for us?

    if u trade kemp im sure Bonds will be here in L.A or Gonzo will have another chance!


    don’t get me wrong! that’s a pretty good trade!

    But there is no assurance that we will get a replacement for Kemp…

    and we can’t really say if Santana wants to get a contract extension with the Dodgers!!!


    can you imagine a starting rotation of penny/lowe/bills/santana..

    and if Schmidt comes back, he’ll be our #5, or loaiza, or wolf, or anyone else you want to throw out as the #5?

    With our remaining young guns like Loney/Martin, and a mix of other players, we would be deadly.


    If the Dodgers even consider trading Kemp and Kershaw, even for Santana that would be foolish…Just give them a chance and don’t bring in tired old vets at the end of their careers and we might have had a chance to win..especially if all the kids had played and developed..wasted year for most other than Loney….


    I don’t think you want to trade Kershaw, the #1 prospect…You don’t see the Rockies doing that…and they are successful now because they have a plan and don’t alter it every other minute…Come on Dodgers…


    Josh is circling the wagons for the damage control coming from the Plascke article. If the Dodgers disagree with Plaschke, then they are wrong. Kemp has to be available, the Dodgers must absolutely trade Kemp and whoever else has to be packaged with him, for a star, a guy in his prime. If the Dodgers again give Kemp the security that he is untouchable, then be prepared for the monster that they will create. I don’t mean a monster who will hit 40+ HR’s, I mean a clubhouse virus!!! Ned, do the right thing and avoid this same scenario in ’08.


    I would NEVER trade Kemp and Kershaw for Santana!!! The kids are the Dodgers future and will keep them competitive for years to come. JUST LET THEM PLAY! The BIGGEST BLUNDER of the year was sending Loney to Las Vegas at the start of the season, followed by taking Billingsly out of the starting rotation. BOTH KIDS HAVE PROVEN THAT THOSE WERE VERY COSTLY MISTAKES! Hopefully management will learn from those HUGE mistakes that in my opinion cost the Dodgers a playoff spot. Also, they should get Young in the lineup. He has proven he can hit, but Little doesn’t give him a chance. Let him take over second base. With the talent LA has in the kids, we don’t need any veteran bats in the lineup. PLEASE DON’T TRADE THE KIDS IF YOU WANT TO BE A WINNER!!! I don’t want to have to watch them excel for other teams like has happened in the past!



    agree with most everything you said…I wouldn’t mind a really big bat, but I don’t think there is one out there now…and don’t trade Kemp and Kershaw for Santana…bad trade in my mind..Santana hasn’t been as good this year either. He’s a good pitcher, but I wouldn’t do the trade


    this is ***!

    the rockies indians diamondbacks and phillies 4 of the possible teams that could be in the playoffs this year all built from within. the dodgers have the ABILITY to do the same. if this trade happens…i might have to give up on the dodgers for they have been doing this kind of **** for years..:[


    kiper, why do you say Kemp is a club house cancer? Kent is the clubhouse cancer. Kemp hasnt done anything wrong. Are you TJ Simers?


    santana has a 3.29era with 231 strikeouts in 216 innings. That’s a pretty good year in my opinion.

    Of course, if you want to define a bad year as his win-loss record, then that’s 15-13, but that’s a foolish way to evaluate a player in my opinion since a loss can be a result of many other things team related.


    drpdedblnd: I don’t think you want to trade Kershaw, the #1 prospect…You don’t see the Rockies doing that…and they are successful now because they have a plan and don’t alter it every other minute…Come on Dodgers…

    The Rockies are successful now?? I guess if you consider just over .500 successful. They’re not even guaranteed the playoffs. Sorry, but I don’t want the Dodgers to model their franchise like the Rockies.


    if kemp needs a bout we trade pierre. sign hunter and hunter could be kemp’s mentor. hunter had a pretty good mentor in minnesota…what was his name…puckett..?



    The Rockies are just coming into their own…You didn’t see them go after old tired pitchers at the trading deadline like the Dodgers did with they got theirs from within…I know Ned keeps saying he wants to win now..but he hasn’t proven he can pick the players to do that..If we had played our young players all year with maybe just Kent, I think we would have been better and not wasted another year..Give these guys a chance..!


    drpdedblnd: Just give them a chance and don’t bring in tired old vets at the end of their careers and we might have had a chance to win..

    Santana is not a tired old vet. He is one of the top 5 starting pitchers in the majors, and he is in his prime. I don’t necessarily want to lose Kershaw and Kemp, but if it means getting Santana (but only with a contract extension), then do it please. You know what you’re getting with Santana (a bona fide ace). You still don’t know with Kershaw and Kemp.


    Hey Josh, focus on getting Loney his shot at the ROY. The guy needs some press because Braun already has the reputation for leading candidate for ROY, but his numbers don’t touch Loney’s over all.

    FOCUS on LONEY it’s a good PR move for the club, and a way to pull something great out of a dismal season.


    trading pierre is easier said than done.

    Besides, having pierre on the team might be a good thing if Kent comes back.

    Afterall, some of you have already foolishly played the race card based on what Milton Bradley said in the past, and now that Kent has called out the young guys (which include a black player), in an effort to discredit Kent’s character, you’re hinting that he’s a racist. (sort of like how you proclaim Gonzo as a steroid user). Both, without hardcore concrete facts I must say.

    If you consider what comes out of Milton Bradley’s mouth, beyond all the cursing and other extraneous ramblings, then i guess you can conclude Kent is a racist, and it’s only about time he gets into it with Pierre, and then Pierre can demand a trade in your fantasy world?

    It seems that the flavor of the week is Jeff Kent, while last week it was Gonzo and Josh. I wonder who will get the typical character assasination treatment next week when the season is over? Maybe you can dig up dirt on Ned and his college life? Or Mccourt and his finances?

    So far, the only person who ever insinuated that Kent had racist tendancies was Milton Bradley. People forget that Dusty Baker was the skipper during Kent’s Giants years, and Bonds, who never has a lost for words, has never insinuated such as far as Kent is considered. Certainly, if Kent had a problem with black people, Bonds wouldn’t mince words about it.

    But then again, you can think what you want, spin it how you want, and portray Kent as the devil however you wish. I just wish people would stick to the game, and not have to resort to character bashing as if that particular player personally offended you or something. You have no idea who these people are off the field, and to make judgment about them in that way is wrong.



    ya but if you have one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball and even a good pitcher like chris young in sd said that his arm was the best arm that he had ever played catch with…i think you know wat your getting in kershaw.

    obviously minnesota know cuz they are willing to trade their best pitcher ( and fan favorite) for a future cy young award winner and a guy who WILL put up 40 hrs a year numbers!

    if this trade happens…10 years from know the baseball world will talking about it and how it was one of the WORST trades in history…and i truely believe that


    The difference is the Rockies had more pitching prospects ready to make the jump to the majors than the Dodgers did. I don’t think the Rockies have a better farm system top to bottom than the Dodgers, their pitchers were just ready to make the jump, and the Dodgers weren’t ready. It’s just timing. The Dodgers had to decide between Loaiza/Wells and Stults/Hendrickson/Houlton/Tomko. I think they made the right decision.

    I just wouldn’t label the Rockies successful based on one good month in about 8 years.


    yep, if the Rockies are good next year (with the rising players they have like..), then you can proclaim them as a good ballclub on the rise that’s here to stay. But until this past week, they’ve just been known as a club with good players who can’t get over that hump and be consistently good over years.


    There is no way we can trade Matt Kemp. Ya, he is still a little raw and still has a lot to learn, but his raw potential is absolutely amazing. Maybe if Jeff Kent wasn’t such a mean BAS*ARD in the club house and actually talked to these young guys and mentored them then maybe Kemp would have grown into more of a complete player. The veterans have acted like immature little babies this season and I think its more on them that we aren’t in the playoffs then the kids.


    Minnesota is willing to trade Santana because they can’t afford him, and they don’t want to lose him in free agency and get nothing in return.

    I’m pretty sure Kershaw is going to be a very good pitcher, also. But I’m not certain. And can you say that he will ever be better than Santana? That would be a tough standard to reach for anyone.


    There is only 1 way you can trade Kemp..Either you get the most dominant hitter in the game, or the most dominant pitcher in the game, either of which must be in their prime.

    In this case, it would be Arod or Santana, and we all know Arod is a free agent, so he won’t be traded.


    the good thing with Santana is that he’s not a pure power pitcher per se. Thus, there’s less of a risk of him breaking down as the years go by. And his durability in the past has shown that he’s still got a lot in the tank pitching wise. Not the mention the intimidation factor that he possesses when he’s on the mound.



    I’m not labeling the Rockies successful because of this month..They have been coming into their own for a couple of years…They have a great lineup…Holliday, Helton,Tulowitzki, Hawpe, Atkins, etc…they can all hit the ball hard…almost 3-4 guys with 100 Rbi…and they have a plan…they can’t just throw money at people..Tulowitzki is the same age as Kemp…I just wish the Dodger management would give our kids a chance before they trade them away..They keep thinking Dodger fans won’t be patient..I’m more impatient at the stupid moves management makes then with the kids…Stop bringing in tired old vets and we will be better already…Kemp needs some work..and from what I hear he is going to some training place in Arizona over the winter..Let him develop…Other teams can see how good he will be…give HIM a chance…I would like to keep Kershaw too…spend the money on a big bat if you have to and a bullpen guy


    another important note from that squib posted above from foxsports is the words used.

    It states that “the Dodgers are considering an offer”…which leads me to believe that the ball is in the Dodgers court with this one if they choose to pull the trigger.


    Trading Kemp is stupid!

    u’ll get a pitcher who is Very very very good! (santana)

    We don’t even know if he will sign a contract extension for the Dodgers!

    The Dodgers will lose one of the productive player they have on the team!

    who will replace Kemp!

    are we going to sign Hunter or Jones? are they going to sign for us?

    IF we didn’t get either Jones or Hunter and if u trade kemp im sure Bonds will be here in L.A or Gonzo will have another chance!


    I agree again. I would be more than happy to see Kemp and Kershaw play their whole careers in LA. But if you can get a proven dominant player in their primes, and have them locked up to an extended contract…..


    From ESPN:

    “Umpire Mike Winters, who was involved in a dispute with San Diego Padres outfielder Milton Bradley in which Bradley injured his knee, has been suspended by Major League Baseball for the remainder of the regular season.”


    drpdedblnd, so far what I’ve seen from Ned and Dodger management, is that they normally give one of the kid pitchers one or two shots are playing and when they don’t throw a perfect game, they kick them to the curb for guys like Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez, Loaiza.

    Those guys are given chance after chance after chance after change to fail over and over and over again. It’s truly disgusting.

    I know so many don’t like Houlton or Stults, but they weren’t Tomko or Hendrickson and perhaps given a chance to pitch more than one game every 60 days, maybe one of them would have emerged as a surprise. But nope, got to continue to put Tomko on the mound. Hendrickson might consider going back to playing basketball if he doesn’t get enough work in.

    41% of the Dodger losses this season rested on the shoulders of three pitchers (20% of the wins were with them), and those 3 pitchers accounted for 30% of the innings pitched. At some point in time, the Dodgers had to make a decision earlier to at least send one of those guys packing, but all three remained with the club until Tomko was released.

    This is the Dodgers and their management. Perhaps if given as much opportunity as Tomko or Hendrickson (like more than 2 consistent rotation starts), Stults or Houlton could have been a help. Nobody would have blamed Ned or Grady for avoiding Tomko or Hendrickson, but for the love of God, stop going with the losing hand.

    Grady is a loser. He talks like a loser. He sounds like a loser. Go back and find some of Grady’s quotes, and they’re traditional loser statements. The team took on the personality of the loser.

    Statements like, “We’ll get them tomorrow”, is loser talk. That means you accepted today’s defeat and you’ll try your best tomorrow. Sometimes you need to have to tell your guys that they lost to an inferior team and that it’s unacceptable. I love those managers who tell off the press after a loss, and tell them that his team didn’t step up and played down to other club. It’s a small change in mentality and some managers truly understand it, Grady doesn’t get it. He accepts defeat and moves on, he doesn’t learn from that defeat or motivate from that defeat.


    From Jon Weismann:
    The following is from former Dodger Dave Stewart, now an agent:

    The fact is there are veterans on (the Dodgers) who played adequate at best all season long. They’re a year too late and on their way down. Penny’s the only veteran starting pitcher the Dodgers could count on. Lowe has more losses than wins, Wolf and Schmidt got injured, and Hendrickson, and Tomko pitched poorly with ERAs of 5.26 and 5.80 respectively. Chad Billingsley on the other hand, who entered the league last season, has been their stopper since he’s been in the rotation. Andre Ethier, who also started playing in the big leagues last year, has been a stabling point for them in the outfield. Another young guy, James Loney, has been nothing but good when they’ve played him. Relief pitcher, Jonathan Broxton, has only pitched 170 career innings so far, but has been very solid this year (80IP, 2.93ERA, 96K, 1.16WHIP). And, this may only be Russell Martin’s second season in the majors, but he’s already made an All-Star team (.299BA, 18HR, 85RBI, 85R, 21SB). If anything, the Dodgers have waited too long to play their young guys more.

    Bottom line… I think the way Kent handled this whole situation is complete garbage. I wasn’t in that clubhouse, but chances are he didn’t say a **** thing all year long and waited until they got eliminated to criticize and cry like a baby. If you have concerns speak up. Don’t wait until September to let your frustration come to a head. Furthermore, if a veteran player doesn’t want to play a leadership role, that’s obviously their choice. However, if you don’t want to be a leader then you need to shut up.

    Dave Stewart do you want to be the new GM of the Dodgers??



    Every time the Dodgers trade potential for proven, they get screwed…I know Santana is good, but I still would rather keep Kemp and Kershaw and work on a big bat and bullpen help…for now.


    van_19, if Bonds comes to LA I am done being a Dodger fan. I have had to swallow too many freaking Giants come here. Kent, Schmidt, Sweeney, etc. The he*l with that.



    Stewart for GM…anyone but NED…is my motto..and anyone but Grady..( who putting Hernandez in the game last night said it all!!) I WANT TO LOSE..



    true but he is supposed to be here next year..sorry to say…But was anyone else amaazed that he put Roberto into a one run game??..I was screaming at my TV…


    I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I don’t want the Dodgers to bring in any more aging veterans (ala Luis Gonzales) and block our prospects. I, too, want to see the young studs play regularly. But I’m also OK with trading one or two top prospects (but definitely not all of them) to get a difference maker in his primes.

    I’m just tired of the 80-85 win seasons. The Dodgers need to get over the hump, and I think they need to acquire a dominant ace to get there. Kershaw MIGHT be a dominant ace someday, but it’s at least a couple years away.


    Great post diehardblue. I am down for Dave Stewart as our GM. Anyone is better then Ned. Do you think the Cardinals played their veterans when Pujols was coming up or how about Milwaukee with Ryan Braun? They weren’t platooning him when he was tearing the cover off the baseball.



    yeah if bonds comes to L.A im done with the Dodgers too…

    but if u trade Kemp and the Dodgers can’t get a replacement for him(Hunter/Jones) That will be the case im sure!

    That’s why Trading Kemp for a pitcher w/c we don’t really need is stupid!

    We need a power bat! we need a productive bat! Kemp can bring us that!


    I say repackage a deal that would send: Kershaw, Ethier and D.Young to Minnesota. If the Twinkies bite on that then pull the trigger, contract extension or not. Ethier is good, D. Young and Kershaw have great upside but haven’t proven it in the bigs yet so I think they’re expendable for the best pitcher in baseball. Kemp and Kershaw both…no way!!! If we can get Santana, even without an extension, we have the power to resign him and barring an injury:





    would be the best rotation the Dodgers have ever had.


    i know grady have made alot of mistakes… like last night! when Hernandez pitch in the 9th!
    but before u bash him or hate him and put the blame on him 100% maybe u should consider this words from Phil Jackson on his take about what players he have in the lakers…

    “I think as a coach, you play with what’s given you. But when chemistry’s not good, that’s the one thing I want to make sure, that we have good chemistry, that guys want to play for each other and with each other.

    Phil Jackson on the Lakers

    i think that’s what Grady did for the Dodgers!

    He plays what’s given to him!

    and with that reason even if u want to make everyone happy they are not contented with the playing time!

    That’s the reason why the Dodgers clubhouse is a mess! those veterans who are not contented with their playing time complains alot and they blame it on the future star Kids!!!


    that link above is also to that stewart article…(FYI)

    I saw this today and laughed pretty hard:

    Kent will probably go to the HoF wearing a jersey that says “Jeff Kent” on the front.


    Charris — But we have to score runs. That has been the problem for the LONGEST time. We don’t have that 1-2 players that can be the big gun and right now, we have 3-4 potential players that can be the big gun (Martin, Ethier, Kemp and LaRoche). One of them is bound to be the power hitter we need.

    That’s why guys like Lowe I ache for. He’s got like 4-5 losses after he pitched his *** off and had NO run support.


    Ned can’t pull off a good deal for the Dodgers. He has been screwed way too many times for him to be trusted with trading away Kemp.

    Logan White should be put into place, with Kim Ng as his co-GM. Logan can focus on the talent and Kim can be the ball buster negotiater. Ned has already proven he’s spineless and pretty much has no clue what he is doing.

    I can only think of four significant moves the Ned has made that were truly positive in impact.

    1) Signing Nomar for 2006

    2) Trading Milton for Ethier

    3) Bringing in Maddux for the 2006 stretch run

    4) Signing Saito and even then, he left him wasting away in AAA while Baez was blowing games.


    I would absolutely trade Ethier, Delwyn, and Kershaw for Johan. A guy like Johan is unreal and man would he benefit from pitching in the NL and the friendly confines of Dodger Stadium. By the way, who cares about Juan Pierre’s streak. Delwyn should be the one playing in center field for the rest of the season. I hate to break it to you Juan, but you are no Ripken pal.


    Van_19 — But basketball is different where you can shuffle guys in and out over the course of a game. You can’t take Martin out and reinsert him back into the game later.


    orth, and to contrast those 4 or 5 games that Lowe has pitched his *** off, he has an equal number of horrible couldn’t get through the first three innings starts.

    Lowe is a .500 pitcher. He’s not a winner for the Dodgers.



    yeah i know!

    what im trying to say is it’s not his fault that he have Nomar, Gonzo or other veterans who didn’t produce all season!

    He just let the players play coz that’s his job and that’s what have been told to him!

    coz i think if Grady have ARod on the lineup u wont see alot of shuffling from the lineup!


    orth_joseph, I absolutely hear ya. But he really isn’t a power pitcher. Throws a lot of changeups. Its tough to say. He had to pinch against some great offenses like Cleveland and Detroit all season. I think him pitching in LA and in the NL would benefit him greatly. I love the kids and I am of the opinion it wasn’t their fault where we are this season. If Kemp and Loney don’t put up the numbers they do in the second half where would the Dodgers really be. Probably right down at the bottom with SF. I am just stunned that we are going to finish in 4th place. I have managed to depress myself again.


    pcj, I think the Twins would, they know that they can’t resign Santana. They would get Ethier (a proven asset), Kershaw and Young (the best pitching prospect in baseball and a versatile 2b/OF prospect in Young). That is a pretty big return in only sacrificing 1 season of Johan.


    Van are you telling me if we had Arod, Grady doesn’t play Nomar at first for the first two months, what about Bills in the Pen all those are Grady decisions. Not to mention playing gonzo and Pierre over and over.


    van_19, Grady didn’t always put his best team out there. He let the egos of the players control his decisions. Grady is a loser and always will be a loser. If he truly had a spine, he would have said screw it and stood up to Colletti if Colletti was supposedly calling the shots on who got playing time. Grady is spineless and his team plays like their spineless.

    The team seems to just give up at a certain point and I just feel that comes from Grady’s mentality. I can’t figure out why the Padres are so **** lucky in their 9th inning come from behind wins. The only thing I can think of is that Bud Black keeps those guys in the game until the very end. Maybe he tells them before it’s over that we’ll get them today, instead of the give up attitude Grady shows.

    Grady just appears to be a quitter in game.



    Don’t get me wrong…

    i still want another manager…

    im just saying…


    “Grady decisions”

    yeah we can all say that coz he is the manager! but it looks to me that he serves as a puppet for both McCourt and Ned!

    Do u really think a person can be that stupid?

    i don’t think so!

    i think if it is “Grady decisions” he would play Loney at 1B from the start!


    No way! the manager picks his starting rotation and line up from the pool of guys that come in and compete in the spring. Then what is the point of having grittle if he is just a puppet???


    But I doubt Ned told Grady to put Roberto in last night with a one run lead…That game was one we could have won..and I was MAD that Grady just gave up…When was the last time Roberto came into a game without giving up 2 or more runs????


    it’s not a quitter attitude!

    it’s a positive attitude actually!

    it’s not accepting that they lose! it’s just facing the truth that they lose!

    it’s the rayt attitude “get them tom’ coz that’s the only way u can bounce back from yesterday!


    If the Dodgers were to go out and sign, say, Arod and then leave Grady as a manager…It’s like going out and buying a 95,000 car and then letting your 16 year old kid drive it to school. There is no way that McCourt and Colletti sign Arod and keep Grady, so the fact that they’ve already said Grady will return tells me they will not be players in the ARod sweepstakes. To me, that’s more disappointing than the thought of signing Barry.


    i know grady made alot of mistakes! like yesterday when hernandez pitch in the 9th!

    im just saying that don’t put the blame on him 100% coz it’s all ned’s fault that we have this veterans who doesn’t produce!!!

    like i said… i also want a new manager! im just saying my point about how it should be blame on Ned!


    JKissen — I think the 4th place finish is BETTER for the team rather than having them just miss the playoffs. Winning would have masked the problems in the off-season. I don’t think McCourt will accept a 4th place finish.


    Its grady’s fault that he kept batting these veterans that don’t produce in the MIDDLE of the line up ALL season!! Or did Ned tell him to do that?


    drpdedblnd — I agree with that assessment. i didnt’ watch the whole game (House and Dancing with the Stars were on the family rotesserie last night), but what I watched, I saw the kids competing. It didn’t shock me when I saw the highlights of the game where Kent is thrown out tagging from 3rd (Gee, Kent, manufacturing runs is harding that it looks. You got thrown out by a CO kid, not a vet), Hendrickson giving up runs and Hernandez giving up more runs.

    Hmmmm….just a hunch here, but it looks like the vets didn’t perform well. Just my opinion.


    Van_19 — Grady puts those vets on the field. Don’t play them just for emotional part (last week for those vets, last time in a game in Dodger Blue, blah, blah, blah). Finish strong AS A TEAM. If they are not producing, don’t put them in.



    like i said do u think a person can be that stupid?

    i think No!

    i think he is aware if a player is not producing!

    i just don’t know what really happen!

    I think that’s what been told for him to do! to play the veterans!

    i think he love the youngters! coz he trust russell martin from the start!


    Navarro got hurt and Martin pushed his way into the starting line up and we started winning. There was no way grady could’ve benched Martin.

    do u think a person can be that stupid?

    I’ve seen grady’s in game moves religiously for two years and have heard his post game comments.

    YES I think grady is that stupid!!!


    that’s just a rude attitude!

    u don’t even know the guy!

    “Navarro got hurt and Martin pushed his way into the starting line up and we started winning. There was no way grady could’ve benched Martin.”

    When he played Kemp and Loney we started winning too… but why is it that he still bench them?

    maybe it was an order from the boss!

    im just trying to be an open minded person! coz i don’t think a person can be that stupid!


    What makes you think grady loves the youngsters. Kemp doesn’t play everyday, Ethier doesn’t start everyday, Loney was sent to Triple A even though he hit over .400 in the spring. Furcal gets hurt and who plays Ramon Martinez! WOW grady was trying to be Mr. Nice guy and keep everyone happy and it backfired.


    And then, in a couple of years (or maybe even next season)Plaschke will be after the Dodgers to trade other prospects to obtain a 40 hr vet – like Kemp will be by that time.

    Kemp has made mistakes – but he hasn’t been the problem.

    Last night the Dodgers lost thanks to dregs like Roberto Hernandez/Henderickson in the bullpen.

    But lost in that is that the Dodgers got three homeruns, all from rookies – and hr power has been deficient for the team.

    And they seem to be focusing on rookie mistakes in the field – when the rooks are still much better defensively than the vets they’ve had.

    The Dodger’s problems are not just a “young-old” issue. Iam on board with Grady being fired.

    Kent has hit well, but he is a statue at second base.

    Furcal seems to be the only infielder who actually knows what he needs to do, but several times this summer it seems he ran to the second base bag to start a double play because Kent hadn’t made it there yet. (and wasn’t going to). Loney at first base made the 3-1 toss to the pitcher an adventure several times this summer as he rushed his throws. Russell Martin’s (The Man Who Never Takes a Day Off) game (SB’s, RBI, HR) has tailed off in the second half.

    The outfield is even more of a disaster. Gonzalez can’t run too well anymore. Ethier and Kemp miss the cutoff man like they have never heard of the concept. Pierre in center field is the funniest outfielder I’ve ever seen. A ball hit in the gap is a double. I don’t mean a ball that goes to the wall in the gap, but a ball that barely rolls to the warning track, is a double if Pierre picks it up. Furcal moves halfway out onto the outfield grass to take his cutoff throws from the wall, but Pierre invariably bounces the ball no matter how far Furcal goes out. All season long opposition baserunners never stop, or even slow down, in taking the extra base when Pierre has the ball in the outfield, and the league, it seems, doesn’t respect the arms of the other outfielders, either.

    Last night’s game against the Rockies held the perfect example of this. Rockies runner on second, Matsui at the plate. Matsui singles to left, runner on second comes home. Ethier throws the ball over the cutoff man at third. The throw is a day late anyway, even a perfect throw would not have gotten the runner. Russell Martin comes out about 20 feet from home plate toward the mound to intercept the throw, since Matsui is heading for second. Martin’s throw hits Matsui as he begins his slide. Kent isn’t near the bag, Furcal is just getting there. The ball bounces into short center field, where Pierre has to hustle in to pick it up, since he is still standing halfway out in center. Matsui never stops running around third and scores easily, as Pierre’s throw barely makes it to the pitcher’s mound. The Little Leaguer in center field couldn’t throw the ball from medium center field to home plate, and everyone in the park knew it. The third base coaches of the National League will take up a collection to send Pierre a Christmas gift this year, and for many years to come.

    And, if you’ve watched the Dodgers all year, the missed cutoff by Ethier and the poor throw by Pierre could have been predicted.


    I was at the game last night, and what I saw were the kids playing. They were having fun, playing the game the way it is suppose to be played. No one’s fault that the vets are horrible, (hendy and blowberto). I think the game could have been won if we went with the normal bullpen approach, 8th inning brox and then saito. But I think it’s better they sit brox, he doesn’t need to be out there in a meaningless game. One thing for sure, they are going to need to find a position for D. Young(lean like a cholo).


    Grady loves the youngters and he proved that last season!

    he let Ethier,Aybar,Martin to play!

    and that changes this year! i don’t know why! u never wonder why is it that grady let the youngters play last season and give them just a limited playing time this season!

    im not trying to say that Grady is the perfect manager nor do i say i want him to still be the manager!

    all im saying is u don’t have to put all the blame at him and insult him…

    coz if im grady and some person that i don’t even know call me “stupid” i’ll punch him straight in the face!!!


    DePodesta looks amazing now. The fact is that when things went bad in DePo’s second year, there was never any question of organizational philosophy, no change in direction, no loss of focus, no panicking. The Dodgers that were put together by DePo, heartless evil number guy may have had some Milton Bradley skirmishes, but nothing like the clubhouse turmoil we’ve allegedly seen in Los Angeles.

    And almost everything that’s good on these Dodgers, nearly 2 years into NEDs reign, was put together by either DePodesta or Evans and almost every bad player on these Dodgers is a product of NED.

    I personally hated that De Po opted to start 2005 with Choi and Valentin at the corners, but at least those moves, if somewhat misguided, were part of a greater plan to keep the Dodgers contending through the decade. Sure, they stunk that year, but it wasn’t due to panic, that team was doomed by injuries and faulty, almost stopgap, personnel decisions. But at least those mistakes were made WITHIN the context of a plan.

    The front office is obviously mounting a press campaign against it’s OWN young players, in order to ensure the fan base remains on board for what is looking like a nonsensical off-season. The backlash against the young guys has been way too uniform across the board not to be at least suspicious.


    Nice wrtie up Josh, as for me, I’m done believing Simers & Plashkes BIASED POINT OF VIEWS, Period end of story.



    You gave me a pretty good laugh…that was great..THANKS

    And california

    I agree…find a place for Delwyn or let him be our number 1 bench guy…switch hitter, can play alot of places….get rid of the old riff raff…all of it…including that loser pinch hitter Sweeney..I’m tired of hearing of how he is the number #1 pinch hitter and he never hits…out with SAENZ, ROBERTO, HENDY, MARTINEZ, GONZO, and any other stuff we don’t need..fill it with young or proven players in their prime!


    Jungar — I’m confused by your “front office mounting a press campaign against it’s oown young players”. How do you figure?


    Last night at the game I was fortunate to have some good seats. I got to sit right behind home plate, and was sitting next to the advance scouts. These guys were raving about the dodger youth, they were say some amazing stuff about Hu, Young, Kemp, Andre. They also said that Martin and Loney were going to be stars in this league. The best comment I heard all night was when they said that the LA media was brutal, they compared them to the New York Post, in the sense that they only wanted to sell newspapers, and they didn’t believe any of that stuff they were saying about the clubhouse. One last thing they said was that there will be changes in Dodger Mgmt.


    Californiaautobuilder — Just curious. How did you know they were advance scouts? Were they from our team? Couldyou expand on the changes in management comment?


    van, yes accepting today’s defeat and saying you’ll get them tomorrow is loser talk.

    Here’s why, that language translates to tomorrow’s game, fine, but then when tomorrow’s game starts going the wrong direction, then the saying, we’ll get them tomorrow kicks in, and you lay back and just say, “we’ll get them tomorrow”, during the game.

    The team has had a get them tomorrow attitude all season. I just think that a manager does need to get fired up after a game. His attitude is just too laid back and carefree.


    Josh****I read the Untouchables, it was the most informative blog I read so far since I came online. It seems though things change by the hour and this offseason is going to be one of the most important in years, especially now that the team did not make the post season. It’s hard to tell what will happen. I’m glad I’m not Ned Colletti, He’s on the spot.


    that word with ****** was the scouts were trying to see how they could GET Ned’s prospects…they were probably giddy with excitement.!


    They were scouts from the Padres, Cubs, Brewers, Phillies. They had credentials around there necks. The credentials gave it away. They were talking aloud, and just mentioned that changes were on the horizon with mgmt. The comment came after they brought in Blowberto.


    calauto, unfortunately with Grady and Ned assured jobs next year, at least Ned assured Grady’s, there is very little room for changes in management. They may want to protect Logan White, for a rainy day, by giving him a raise and the same with Kim Ng. They could make changes to the coaching staff, pass the blame, but that’s not really management, so it’s hard to believe that management changes are looming, unless Mr. McCourt absolutely pulls a 180 and cleans house…. Which wouldn’t be all bad.


    Kiper, I have heard the comment “there job is safe” only to come back a week later and there gone, so here is hoping that Frank does do some house cleaning. Because I am a believer that Frank does want to win, and is not going to put up with losing for very long.


    Kiper — The only thing I fear is the instability of changing things every 2 years, as McCourt has done. Maybe he’ll want to keep a GM for longer than 2 years than he did with DePo. The Angels have been stable a while and look at them and their philosophies.

    I think you need a manager who the players will play for. Seems llike the players like each other since they came up together, so there’s familiarity and stability there.


    Hi Josh and everyone,
    Since this is on the subject(s) at hand, please take a moment to read this piece by Molly Knight, as posted on BlueNotes, because it absolutely says everything that I would want to, were I even half as articulate. If there’s anyway for the Dodgers’ front office to at least read this and contemplate it, I’d be much obliged. Cheers.



    “get them tomorrow”

    For The Dodgers it’s like the “Never Say Die” attitude!

    i still think it was a positive attitude!

    “get them Tomorrow” and forget about yesterday!

    That’s the only way u can bounce back and kick *** from yesterday!

    anyway… That’s ur take.. mine is different!


    Van_19 — The only way you say “Get them tomorrow” is to go over what happened today (like Vin mentioning during the CO road trip that Clint Hurdle was writing down things that went right and things that went wrong to go over with his players after the game — was this a shot at Grady?) to learn from your mistakes.


    Vin has been taking shots for a couple of weeks now. Remember the one about Loney, when he said why in the world they sent him back to AAA.


    Thats cool what you heard about the advanced scouts—we can only hope its true, that Martin/Loney are stars in this league and that this management team is on its way out!

    The LA Times is a JOKE!


    Ned is a freakin joke. I mean why would you even consider signing some of the guys he signs? He is about as stupid as they come.


    You are right, it would be rediculous to trade any of the kids. and there is no way that we can say that it has crashed and burned. this year, the only kid that got consistant playing time the whole year were Russ (who probably should have gotten a couple more days off) and Brox (who was overworked in only his 2nd year) other than them though Ethier and Kemp were in and out of the line up, Loney wasnt called up until the season was well under way, Bills wasnt made a starter until the season was well under way, la roche was never given decent chance at 3rd, abreu barely got playing time…. It would be plain STUPID to decide wether this direction will work or not until the kids are starters and can feel comfortable knowing that they are gonna play, instead of saying ‘am i in the line-up today or not?’


    I have been thinking about the trade that Plaschke reported and now think that it a good move if:
    1. We can extend Santana’s contract

    2. We can still sign somebody else like Hunter to supplement our loss of Kemp

    Think about it

    Santana 15-20 wins

    Penny 15-18 wins

    Lowe 12-16 wins

    Billingsley 12-16 wins

    Schmidt (if healthy) 10-15 wins

    Thats anywhere from 64 to 85 wins out of our starting rotation. As much as I love Kemp, I think this trade would put us in a great position to win…NOW!

    I guess our line-up would look like this:









    I personally think that our offense would be good enough with that lights out rotation.


    All — I understand all the analysis / statistics / sabermetrics in the world can be used to analyze this, but give Ned a break. It does SLIGHTLY worry me that he says if the right deal came along, anyone is expendable. If you look at the rumored trades that Ned had to answer from other clubs (i.e. 2-3 current kid players for a middle reliever, i think was one I heard of), he rebuffed them outright. In all honesty, I think anyone of us would have said no.

    That’s my point — anyone of us would have said no, and it didn’t take sabermetrics to do it. Do you really think it’s hard to figure out that only 1 vet produced (Kent, albeit slightly skill-diminishment) and the kids flourished. I’m sure once Kent calms down, he’ll figure out his vet comrades didn’t produce.

    Back to my point….Given what happened this year, I think Ned knows what he has to do…..sign veteran role players who can be mentors and keep the kids…..I can’t see any trade where 2 kids would be worth it.


    Chariss — not a bad analysis. However, can you live with maybe 2-3 years of Kemp getting his act and head together rather than sign Hunter for NOW? I can. There is a 9 year differential between Hunter and Kemp’s age. IF Kempsbecomes the power hitter we need (even after 2-3 years of head-slappin’ some sense into Kemp), we’ve gained 7 years of power, rather than 2-3 we may get in Hunter (minus the huge salary of course).


    I realize that Kemp has huge potential, and trust me I love Matt Kemp but, we know exactly what Santana would bring to the table. If Johan was able to pitch an entire year in the NL (facing a pitcher, huge ballparks, 1st year in the league advantage) his numbers would be super-human. Plus that allows Penny to pitch against #2s, Lowe to pitch against #3s etc. Getting a franchise changing player like Santana won’t come cheap but as I said earlier it puts us in a great position to win now.


    Dontrelle Willis record is 10-15. Dontrelle Willis would be a better fit. I beleive we would wantto come and play in LA. We just need to pick up one more good pitcher.
    Penny-was great all year.

    Lowe- just did not get run support when it counted he could easily be 16-12 or better.

    Billingsley- did a great job and deserves to be a starter.

    Wolf-did great and would be good if he came back.

    Schmidt- is going to be a bust, he is not going to be the Schmidt that he was, he reminds me of “KEVIN BROWN” what a bust.

    When you blend all the young talent together they play well. They all go out and make it fun and competetive. Just like last night. it was all young talent and 1 veteran and look at the runs we scored.

    We just need to pick up a power third baseman A-rod or Miguel Cabrera. It might be expensive but it sure ain’t my money. LA deserves someone big. Last time i got excited over a power hitter was along time ago. Darryl Strawberry & Eric Davis.


    Chariss — I agree, but you’d have to front that money this year to extend and sign those guys until Furcal and Kent (potentially) leave. That frees up $22 million. You’re only freeing up about $12-13 million (?) this year with the likes of Gonzo, Hendrickson, etc.


    All of the merits and pros and cons aside for trading Kemp or anybody else, the main problem that I have is that I don’t trust Colletti to do any major trading anymore. I can see no good examples of what he has brought us. I think he is greatly outclassed by all of his peers, and under such circumstances he is the one whom other GMs will take advantage of.
    First things first, and that means FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY.


    Messagebear — We’ll have to wait and see, but given what happened at the trade deadline, no kids were moved.


    If the dodgers trade Kemp I am done. Even for Santana.

    Pedro, Piazza, Konerko…Kemp. No. I am making my stand now. If you want me to be an Angel Fan, trade Matt Kemp.

    Trading two of the best young prospects in basbeabll for a guy who will be 31 and who is a pitcher who plays once in 5 days who if we managed to extend him will be paid more than Brad Penny, Lowe and Billinsgley combined? No thanks.

    How soon we forget Jason Schmidt. Or Kevin Brown. Come on people.


    I agree, do not trade Kemp. Even though I think plascke is full of caca, and just trying to stir it up even more. Kemp, Andre, and hopefully another CF, and we will be fine. I still think the CF is sitting under are nose, Kemp or Andre and Young could play LF, Young could rake guys.


    Jungar — Like I’ve mentioned, we’ve always had good pitching but no offense. It appears we have that now. I’m muffed by Plaschke’s praise for Ned for not trading the kids away at the trade deadline and now thinking about trading Kemp.

    Stoneman has repeatedly been hammered for not doing anything and look what that poor guy has done with his tema.


    Cameron I don’t think Kemp is the next Bradley. For one reason and one reason only, his agent is Dave Stewart, I will try to find the article, but in the article Kemp praises Stewart for making his transition a very pleasant one. And I believe if Kemp falls out of line Dave Stewart will wip his behind.


    Cameron, Kemp IS a stud outfielder. Where on earth do you get the Milton Bradley comparison? He’s very young, and doesn’t seem to have a hotheaded temper. If he’s immature in any way it’s because of how young and raw he is, his upside is five tools outfielder with incredible potential. No need to trade him for anyone.



    I have to agree about DWillis being worth the chance. But the risk is he might be blown up. His numbers have been declining for a couple years now. Of course since he has known year in and year out that the Marlins are going nowhere it’s reasonable to consider he simply might have reached a level of frustration. As in why try if the organization is not going to try.

    If he is of that mindset then perhaps he might not be a good guy to get after all…he might be beyond saving. Then again Dave Stewart was frustrated before the Dodgers traded him and that worked out fine for him.

    Maybe with a change of scenery DWillis will emerge as a front line SP again. Right now he is no better then a #4.

    As for trading Kemp…shudder…but a team must give up someone to get someone. Time will tell. We all need to remember that Kemp spent almost no time at Area 51. He pretty much made the jump from AA to the majors. So he is lacking that bit of common sense players can gain spending a couple years in Area 51.

    Problem is that the rotation is a MESS. Moving Billz from the pen to the rotation left a HUGE hole there. The addition of Proctor fixes that hole for the most part making the pen solid again.

    The rotation is a mess because most of the guys they Dodgers are counting on have been under the knife. Think about it…other then Billz and I think Lowe all of them have had at least one surgery. Most have had multiple surgeries. How in the world can you build a WS team with that sort of rotation.

    This means someone has to be traded this off season. But such is baseball…trades happen. Reggie Smith was not a Dodger but he made them a championship team when the Dodgers traded for him. The Dodger’s hand might be forced and they will need to trade from the only surplus they have and that is the OF.

    If they sign Hunter then Kemp or ET is gone.

    It’s gonna be a while but something is going to happen. I only hope that this time all the management changes are in place in time to make FA deals…remember Dan Evans really WANTED Vlad…but because of the pending sale he did not have the freedom to make a real offer. Had McCourt wanted to keep Evans (which he should have done) then a deal likely would have been OK’d. But since McCourt wanted a new GM everything was in limbo until the deal was done.

    So timing is EVERYTHING and this off season cannot be another Keystone Kops routine…


    Kemp is like Bradley because he is a me first player. Was I the only one who saw him ignore his teammates yesterday when they scored. If I had been one of those guys I would’ve slapped him right there on the field. He acts like he is bigger than the game. I’ve got news for him. Without his teammates he’s nothing. He’ll be the next player with multi million dollar talent and a 10 cent attitude.


    Cameron do you no more than what is being said? Tell us the truth,we no you have inside juice?


    How many players has Jeff Kent called out in his career. Bonds,Bradley,and now Kemp. We all know Bonds and Bradley don’t care about anybody but themselves. The next time Kemp plays don’t watch how he hits and fields…watch how he acts. HE never looks at a coach when he’s running. He hates looking at the third base coach for signs. All he wants to do is hit homeruns. Watch how he swings. It’s a me me me thing for Kemp and the clubhouse doesn’t need that.


    Again, I think its a win-win situation, Santana is only 28 years-old, a seven-year deal puts him at 35 when he’s done. He is the BEST pitcher in baseball and while Kemp and Kershaw are budding stars, they have yet to prove it for an entire big league season. Their is a chance that Kershaw ends up being a Dreifort-type and that Kemp ends up being a Mondesi-type (which is good but not necessarily a franchise guy) we know Johan is a franchise guy, in-fact we know that he’s comparable to Pedro in his prime (BTW when Pedro was 29 he went 18-6 with 284 Ks and a 1.74 ERA). Again I think we should try to counter with something like Ethier/LaRoche/Kershaw but I don’t think its the end of the world if the Dodgers pull the trigger on that deal. I still believe that the deal would make us more ready-made to win it all in ’08 and possibly ’09 and beyond.



    i saw that play at home plate as well. Kemp was more focused on adjusting his batting gloves than congratulating his teammates at home plate in what was, at the time, the go-ahead home run. A huge play i might add.

    i brought up this point immediately after it happened last night and this morning because it stuck out at me since i wanted to see what the interaction between the vets and kids would be. Sure enough, pierre, loney, and kent all enjoyed the moment at home plate, and Kemp sidestepped the situation.

    Don’t get me wrong, i don’t think this conclusively proves he is going to be Milton Bradley like in character. However, it sure sheds light into him mindframe and the way he goes about his business. Most of all, we have no idea how people act inside the clubhouse, and if yesterday’s dodging of home plate by Kemp was just a small glimpse into what Kent was talking about in his outburst, then i’m not to pleased with it.

    Now, i could already guess the Kemp defenders will talk about how “kemp has only been playing baseball for a while, he’s growing up”, “he’s maturing, give him a break”. Another favorite that could be brought up is “Kemp did the right thing because KEnt is a cancer on the clubhouse, and he deserves no respect, even a high five”. Loney sure had no problem with KEnt on that play however, and when you’re on the field and playing as a team, any animosity needs to subside, vet or kid.


    So… who’s going to play in our outfield then? Whatever is thought about Kemp as a person we should be trying to trade Ethier ten times as fast. His ceiling is not nearly as high, period. If we’re getting rid of Kemp we better get a real outfield with power, like 40 HR power. Because your going to get like 15 HRs out of Ethier and you already know about our wonderful CF.


    jspelk, I agree and I honestly think that the Twinkies would contemplate Ethier/LaRoche/Kershaw in that deal so why not try and get it done?

    If that deal were to go through our ’08 team would look like this:






    D Young








    I would love life if that happened.


    I’m not saying that Kemp isn’t going to be a great player or his ceiling isn’t through the roof. I just have a problem with his attitude. The older he gets the worse he’ll get. You can’t change that kind of attitude. He doesn’t have the bad attitude of a player who gets pissed when he makes and out and doesn’t help the team, he’s got that me me me attitude. That’s what kills ballteams.


    And right now you can almost get anybody for Kemp. But when he get like Bradley you won’t be able to give him away.



    are you sure Kemp ignore his team mates yesterday…

    im watching the video when Loney hits the 3run HR!

    he high five JP and Loney!

    the only person he ignored is Kent!

    it’s fine with me!

    i think Kent tried to congratulate Loney but i think he held back his hand! so i think Kent is the ME ur talking about not Kemp!

    and he is young! when ur young it is supposed to be you! coz ur trying to win a Job!!!


    That’s completely backwards. When you’re young you bust your @$$ to gain respect for the veterns not just on your team but throughout the league. You don’t see Martin or Braun or Chris Young or any of those guys doing the things Kemp does.


    The league respects Martin. He’s a team player and baseball respects that. They don’t respect selfish players.


    just saw the video replay of the home run on

    If you look closely, Kent high-fives Pierre, then automatically high-fives Loney without lowering his hand in 1 motion. That’s why it look’s like Kent pulled his hand back as Loney passed him, because he did but only that he had already gave the fist pound to Loney right after one to pierre.

    Kemp on the otherhand…Well, he’s young and i guess he’s trying to win a job and it’s “supposed to be about you!”, so therefore, he has to make sure his batting gloves are tight so he can have a good next at-bat i guess?


    I think kemp explained the thing about not giving Abreu a High five!
    He said he congratulate Abreu!

    maybe he doesn’t give him a High Five but at least he congratualte him!

    JP also said in an interview with A Martinez that they were having fun in the OF on their last game at chase field coz Jp is the only veteran in the field!

    It doesn’t look to me that kemp is a ME guy!

    and if it’s true that he is a ME guy! i think it would do good for him for now!

    coz when ur trying to get a job that’s what u supposed to do! think about urself before others!!!


    ok its ridiculous to go through this but Kent pounded fists with all three of them, you can see it on the video.


    My opinion, I just think Kemp needs to learn the game better. All the mistakes he makes running and things like that are very coachable, he will learn that stuff. I think the attitude comes from not playing, and that comes from not being mature. But then who wouldn’t be upset, you are putting up numbers playing good defense and then getting to the park and not seeing your name in the line up, that will probably not sit well.


    um cameron you are wrong about Braun. A few weeks ago Braun hit a deep HR, he stood there and watched it for a good 10 seconds before rounding the bases like a *****. He got plunked in his next AB, and deserved it. If y’all think we are the *only* team who has young players who lack respect, your wrong.


    jspelk..i don’t see on where on the video Kemp fist pounded with Kent at home plate? Which video are you looking at?


    i can’t explain it to you casino coz u always tried to defend everything…

    from grady to josh to the management and now Kemp for thinking about himself!

    all i know is no one complains about Kemp’s attitude so why would we?


    Thanks Josh for picking apart the absurdity of (he who shall not be named) terrible column.

    Any talk of trading Matt Kemp is absolute insanity. The few guys I would trade him for, we would never get.

    I also find it absurd that people already think they have a picture perfect idea of who Matt Kemp is as a person.

    Trade Matt Kemp and it just proves that this franchise is headed down the toilet.


    jspelk…thanks for double checking for me. I thought you might have had a better angle on that play or something since the only video I had access to was the replay on So, if we’re looking at the same one, i didn’t see where all 3 of them fist-pounded.


    This is ridiculous-you guys are now analyzing Kemp after home runs like some people pour over the Zapruder film (JFK). The assumptions being made here are based on almost nothing and are dangerous, frankly. I only hope the powers that be don’t make the same rash analysis and try to rid us of our “problem child”. I guess that’s sort of what happened with this arrogant jerk named Pedro Martinez.


    I also find it absurd that people already think they have a picture perfect idea of who Matt Kemp is as a person.

    Posted by: | September 26, 2007 01:58 PM

    tnx for that…

    ur rayt…

    they don’t even know Kemp!


    No im definitely aruging *for* the young guys…but I admit its odd that he would avoid Kent. I want Kent back for next year besides the fact that I think he’s an unpleasant teammate, as he’s proven over the course of his career. I hope that both young and old learned from this and just move on and play good baseball.


    All this mess started because Kent, yes Mr. Proven Veteran, went to the media and blasted other players.

    That is not what leaders do, that is what jerks do.


    of course we don’t know Matt Kemp. Just like any of you don’t know Grady Little, Ned Colletti, Jeff Kent, Russell Martin, Snoopy, Ronald Mcdonald, and Santa Claus. However, all you can judge by are actions and what other people say about them.

    Like I said, the video of last night’s home-run play does not lie. It’s there in the video, and it’s undisputable.

    However, like I said earlier, the video relpay doesn’t conclusively prove, 100%, without a doubt that Kemp is a selfish player, or has an attitude problem, or is all about Me. We’re not in the clubhouse everyday, and on road trips every time they occur. So, we can’t possibly know what is going on behind closed doors. Everything’s just an assumption based on what we’ve been privy to. Just like some people think Matt Kemp is going to be better than Willie Mays, you can interpret the facts/events the way you want.


    Kemp looked like he was about to go join the others in congratulating Kent, but was too far away to do so. He would have been by himself with Kent.


    One other comment, Bill Plaschke did his job, he has all of you biting on the fact that if trade Kemp we can get Santana, you guys are buying his bs, this will never happen or at least Logan White won’t do it, the new GM.


    casino Matt Kemp is 23 a second year player that’s why we can’t ASSUME anything yet. Kent on the other hand has been playing in front of us for 17 years we have a little better picture of what type of guy Kent is. Just ask the Blue Jays, Mets, Indians, and Gnats.


    Kent going to the media with his outburst was wrong, and uncalled for.

    However, that doesn’t mean what he said/observed/thinks isn’t true. The only difference is that now we know about what he was thinking in regards to certain players. If he didn’t talk to the media, we would all think everything was fine, or close to it. At least now that the cat is out of the bag, we have some idea of the problems of professionalism that might be occurring since Kent let the world know about it.



    You mean the guy who last year in a game stole second base, but Andre Ethier hit a fly ball to the oufield at the same time and Kent refused to run back to first, so he got doubled up.

    Sorry, but I do not think Jeff Kent may be the greatest judge of professionalism. Ripping on your teammates to the media is not very professional. Getting in fights with teammates is not very professional.



    like i’ve always said about doesn’t matter about his attitude problems, clubhouse presences, or whatever problems he has. Asking the blue jays, mets, indians and giants won’t have anything to do with Matt Kemp. It’s proven that some people don’t like Kent. However, no one’s had a problem with them on their team when he’s producing and it’s never gotten to the point where he’s not given a job or released despite his production. (example: Milton Bradley who’s jumped from team to team despite his talents)

    What i’m more interested in is Matt Kemp and what his attitude is. We can’t assume anything yet of course, but we can develop our knowledge of him by how he acts on the field, in interviews, in his at-bats, his approach to the game, etc.

    Nothing related to Kent and his past with other teams and his general perception in the public has anything to do with that. Nothing whatsoever. The best it can be used for is to deflect attention from Matt Kemp so that the focus is put on Jeff Kent instead. Kind of like the “he did it too” approach.

    And lastly, if any of you watched the “in my own words” with Jeff Kent, you’ll realize that he truly is a nice guy and is a comepetitor. The guys from Dodger live said so as well, and watching that interview with Kent changes my perception of him as opposed to when he was with the Giants.



    You have reached the conclusion that kemp is a selfish player because you don’t see him giving Kent a high five? Man, I hope God judges you the same way you judge others. You are analyzing this way too much. What a joke!


    If you cannot judge people by past action then what do you judge them on?

    Oh and I do know Ronald McDonald and he loves the youngsters.


    People have said Kemp is a nice guy too. I have heard more people say kent is a jerk. I’ll listen to the majority.



    yes, that same Jeff Kent that’s been in the Major Leagues since 1992 and seen and heard more things on and off the field than any fan ever could about being a professional baseball player. And that same Jeff Kent that’s made some boneheaded plays, bad errors, bad judgments and decisions just like any other human that ever lived on this earth.


    Californiaautorebuilder — Plaschke always writes what the flavor of the day is. Since things are bad, he’ll freak out.

    Again, at the trading deadline, he’ll say he will eat his words if he is wrong about not trading the kids. So now he baits to trade the kids. What if they win it all next year or the year after that. Would he say, “I told you Ned shouldn’t have traded anyone and look at me, I was right as well”. No. People won’t go back and look up what he said.


    Kemp stays
    Kent Goes

    Kemp can only get better. Kent will only get older and slower and grumpier.

    Fire Colleti!


    (example: Milton Bradley who’s jumped from team to team despite his talents)

    How many teams has kent played for??SIX!!!!



    You have reached the conclusion that kemp is a selfish player because you don’t see him giving Kent a high five? Man, I hope God judges you the same way you judge others. You are analyzing this way too much. What a joke!

    Posted by: | September 26, 2007 02:21 PM

    read my posts above, and you’ll clearly read that i did not make any final conclusions about Kemp. Don’t put words into my mouth please.

    This is a public forum and all posts are posted for eternity and visible for all to see. If you would take the time to read them clearly, instead of jumping directly and focusing on the statements that make your heart rattle and your eyes water, you’re realized that i never said Kemp was a selfish player.

    Read carefully before calling someone a joke, otherwise, the joke ends up being on you.



    i know Ronald McDonald he isn’t really famous in the Philippines!

    Jollibee is more famous than him!

    not to mention Carl’s Jr.


    casino383 — Of course Kent is going to be on his best behavior on camera. Who isn’t? Kent can spout off in the paper, sure, and there’s a written record, but video is more revealing. Also, the questions posed to him in that piece are very broad and not specific.



    very true. Plashcke and before, J.A. Adande, would only talk and write about what would get the fans talking, what would stir the pot, and what would get the most attention. And so far, looks like he reached his goal.

    And for the record, i try not to read or listen to anything he has to say, including on Around the Horn on ESPN..he’s a different species for sure.


    Kent traded from the blue jays to Mets to Indians to gnats. He got traded 3 times in less than two years because he didn’t get along with teammates


    The scariest thing I’ve read on this blog today is Josh writing as Ned and his staff get ready for 08. Grady is an idiot, and Ned isn’t far behind. Sure trade Kemp and Kershaw for Santana. Remember Santana was once traded to Minn. too. That’s a trade that should never get made. If you want Johan, wait until he’s a free agent and sign him. If you want to trade anyone , lets see hoe good of a GM you can be and get someone , anyone to take Pierre.


    Kent was traded to the blue jays for David Cone who was a pretty good player at the time and the Mets were making a playoff push.



    What do the guys you know say about Kemp. Jerk? Selfish?


    I’m willing to give him a full season without whiny Gonzo around poisoning the clubhouse since he seems to have pretty rare raw talent that’s hard to replace.


    Sorry Casino. I read your statements more carefully. You’re alright.



    You have reached the conclusion that kemp is a selfish player because you don’t see him giving Kent a high five? Man, I hope God judges you the same way you judge others. You are analyzing this way too much. What a joke!

    (Happy now?)


    I agree. No point in trading for Santana. Why give away players when we can just sign the guy in a year.


    The METS were not making a playoff push they were well under .500!!! Don’t make stuff up, why did they trade him within a couple of years to the Indians


    Published: September 15, 1992

    In another season, the incident might have died without a remark. It might not have escalated to the heated moment it did in the clubhouse in Montreal on Sunday night. On another club, the issue of clubhouse politics might not be such a volatile one.

    But these are the Mets, the bad, jinxed and endlessly controversial club for whom everything goes wrong. Always. Thus, Jeff Kent, a player with undetermined ability and the scantiest of reputations, found himself at the center of the latest clubhouse storm.

    Kent, the second baseman acquired in the trade for David Cone last month, effectively squared off with the rest of the Mets Sunday night, refusing to submit to a clubhouse prank and wear the ridiculous outfit the players had substituted for his street clothes in his locker. Not Kent’s Style

    Kent’s stand — the second baseman pitched the clothes onto the floor of the clubhouse before Sunday night’s game against the Expos and then again challenged the Mets to produce his regular clothes after the 7-5 loss — ultimately required the intervention of Manager Jeff Torborg. The manager, in an explosion filled with expletives, ordered an end to the scene.

    “It wasn’t an attempt to air out the club or to protect anyone,” said Torborg. “I wanted to get the heck out of there.”

    It appeared today that it was going to be difficult for Kent to extricate himself from his isolated clubhouse position, and, in fact, the 24-year-old, who doesn’t bother to disguise his temper or arrogance, appeared determined not to soften his stance.

    “I paid my rookie dues in Toronto,” said Kent, who maintained that he had willingly gone along with similar stunts as a member of the Blue Jays. “I feel I have endured my embarrassments, my punishment.”

    “I felt I was being taken advantage of,” Kent added. “They wanted to go overboard. I stuck up for myself. I won’t be pushed around.”

    Kent was most emphatic in clarifying that, contrary to the way it might have appeared to the veterans on the club, he did not go to Torborg for help. And Torborg went out of his way to confirm Kent’s claim, saying he had been informed of the problem by the club’s traveling secretary.

    “I’m not out to protect Jeff Kent,” Torborg said. “He’ll have to deal with it all himself.”

    Kent, who struck out twice with the bases loaded during the Mets’ 10-8 victory over the Cubs tonight, appears eager to have his hands full, and the specter of problems with umpires and in the clubhouse recalls the experience of Gregg Jefferies, who never found happiness in New York.

    Kent, barely 72 hours after pledging to reporters that he would be at his locker regardless of his personal fortunes in any game, evacuated the clubhouse in Cincinnati after his misplay of a ninth-inning grounder led to a defeat.

    “Not tonight,” Kent told reporters as he raced to the team bus.

    Kent argued vehemently with Umpire Bruce Froemming in his first game with the Mets. And Sunday night after being called out on strikes by Jerry Crawford, Kent flung his helmet and bat near the umpire and complained all the way out to second base.

    He was quoted in a Toronto Globe and Mail article last weekend as saying New York was worse than he had imagined, and was reported to have taken verbal swipes at Toronto third baseman Kelly Gruber, the man he had filled in for in 1992. While standing by his claim that he had lost some respect for Gruber, Kent today again insisted “80 percent of the quotes were misprinted.”

    “He was not well liked in his own clubhouse,” a former official with the Blue Jays said of Kent’s experience with Toronto’s Class AA club. “He’s totally oblivious to what it takes to fit in with a team. And he had problems with the umpires within the first month of the season last year.”

    Kent clearly has imperiled his position in the clubhouse. He was savagely ridiculed after Sunday night’s episode by the club’s veterans, who thought the rookie had deemed himself above standard hazing rituals and who resented the fact that the manager had been drawn into the scene.

    But Kent remained defiant.

    “I won’t hold it against them,” said Kent of his teammates. “What they do, I don’t know. Maybe they’ll know next time. I’m going to play the game the best I can, good reputation or bad. It was an incident. That’s all.”

    Posted by: | September 24, 2007 01:33 PM

    In case anyone missed this post. Our “clubhouse leader” let the veterans pull similar pranks to our second year guys. Kent is such a two face!!!!


    The only way to trade Pierre is to Fire Ned Colleti. The Giants will hire Ned Colleti. Then Logan White will trade Juan Pierre for Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum. Trust me Ned will do it.



    thanks for re-reading. I know a lot of people jump to conclusions when statements are made about certain players. However, i’m always clear in my statements in pointing out my perspective on things where I see fit. If i feel that something might cause personal bashing and clashes against me, then I set the record straight and make a sort of disclaimer in my post. An example would be me making it clear in my above posts that the video doesn’t conclusively prove, 100% that he is selfish. It’s only an instance, 1 play, 1 event, that any fan would not be pleased with if indeed Kemp was dodging Kent on purpose. I left the fact/event up for interpretation and you can see it how you want, just like any other play.

    It’s silly that I have to put in a semi-disclaimer in my posts to prevent any tensions about things, but as I’ve learned from being on this blog this entire season, the posts can get pretty hateful sometimes, and names would be called, opinions would be trashed, and I really don’t want to participate in that, or be the subject of that.

    I’m just like any of you, just voicing my opinion and my perspective on things. Anti-Kids, Anti-Vets, or whatever. I call them as I see them.


    Matt Kemp is one of the brightest lights of the future Dodgers, along with Loney, Martin, LaRoche, Billingsley, Broxton and Hu. That he is so talented at age 22 with so little baseball experience is truly awesome. He has unlimited potential and could become the next Dodger to be a 40/40 player (unless Dodger management decides to pull the dumbest move since trading Pedro M.).

    Maybe Ned can trade Kent for a box of kleenx.



    I too liked the interview with Jeff and felt like I got a different picture of him from that interview. But, in no way did he show any leadership by going public with his comments. In my opinion a lot of this falls at the feet of Ned Colletti, but Kemp and Loney are easy targets for speaking up when they should have just been quite (but I don’t know if I could have kept quiet too).



    pierre for Cain and Lincecum..classic! funniest thing i’ve read all week here!

    (well, that, and the william hung reference)



    Josh, here’s an e-mail I sent to Plaschke today, FWIW:

    Mr. Plaschke,

    The Dodgers have a terrible track record of trading “incomplete” young talent for illusory short-term fixes. It’s a Tommy Lasorda hangover – in case you’ve forgotten the fates of Pedro Martinez and Paul Konerko. I’m assuming your sources are good and that trading Kemp is on someone’s radar. Wouldn’t it have been informative to your readers to mention the dismal track record this kind of transaction has had for the Dodgers? Or to “out” the fool who’s suggesting this course of action?

    It’s also curious, too, that you don’t even mention the kind of veteran you mean, other than giving his suggested age. Is the point of this supposed Kemp trade “addition by subtraction?” Take another look at the numbers he’s racked up this year. Where would the Dodgers be if Little had appeased the selfish oldsters and seldom played him? Realizing Kemp’s at-bats were held down by the ridiculous platoon Little had going in order to keep Luis Gonzalez happy (which was every Dodger fan’s highest priority of course), the only better offensive players were guys in the realm of Chase Utley, Matt Holliday, Chipper Jones, Placido Polanco, Magglio Ordonez, Ichiro Suzuki, Vladimir Guerrero, David Wright. These players are also more “complete,” but how long do you think it will be before Kemp joins them? I think next season is the likeliest guess. But which one can we get in trade for him? A solid veteran age 27-31 would not be enough unless it was a superstar – preferably one making the minimum salary for the next few years and can’t leave via free agency.

    Your casual readers might have been better served if you had included Kemp’s numbers in your article. It’s one thing to call Kemp immature and make him out to be an unpleasant person. But aren’t fans a bit more interested in his .331 batting average, .364 on-base percentage, .509 slugging average, and home run/RBI totals that would project out over a full season to 20+ homers, 85+ RBIs and 20+ stolen bases? In some years, that’s a rookie of the year.

    The Dodgers’ second-half meltdown was due to pitching, not hitting and not baserunning (except Kent’s perhaps). Does Derek Lowe blame Kemp for his lousy second half? Did Esteban Loiza get one look at Kemp and lose sight of the strike zone? Did Kemp force Grady Little to keep running Brett Tomko out there as a starter or Roberto Hernandez in relief? A couple of months ago, you derided those who were advocating trading youth in exchange for a player like Mark Teixiera. The Braves got Teixiera, and he was certainly good for them. But they fell out of the race anyway because they didn’t get the pitching. Our situation is just the same. Other than Billingsley, Penny, Seanez and Saito, we had unreliable pitching. How can you in good conscience join in the campaign to blame the Dodger youth movement for what was primarily the collective failure of the team’s mostly veteran pitching?

    The veterans’ critique of Kemp and his peers comes down to two things: Alibis and jealousy. You grazed that issue. But you’re a journalist. You should be confronting it head-on.


    Johan Santana plays every fifth day…same as Kershaw. Kemp plays every day…unless you’re Grady Little. And until the Dodgers are one ace away from a World Championship, I wouldn’t trade a five-tool guy for a player whose one pitch away from Tommy John surgery. Now if they’ll take Pierre instead of Kemp to play center…just wishing.


    The METS were not making a playoff push they were well under .500!!! Don’t make stuff up, why did they trade him within a couple of years to the Indians

    Posted by: | September 26, 2007 02:31 PM

    Geez, sorry to offend you so badly. It was a typo on my part. I should have put Blue Jays not Mets. Kent was traded from the blue jays to the Mets in exchange for David Cone.

    The Blue Jays, not the Mets, were making that playoff push to get a started and gave up Kent to the Mets in David Cone. That year, in 1992, The Blue Jays won the World Series, so apparently, the trade worked out for the blue jays in trading Kent.


    In defense of Ned, I think Sabean’s philosophy with the Giants was to always get vets. Only now do the Giants want to get younger.

    We don’t really know what Ned’s stance was as assistant GM. Was he trying to get the Giants younger, only to be rebuffed by Sabean? Did the Giants have any good prospects coming up or were they always traded away?

    It will be interesting to see what he will do this off-season, but, for now, we have to take him at his word that he won’t trade the kids unless it is spectacular. He appeared to do that this past trading deadline in July when teams wanted 2-3 kids already playing at the MLB-level for a middle reliever?


    In San Francisco and Chicago Ned’s responsibilities included:
    public relations, arbitration hearings, and was the assistant GM of the Giants. I haven’t found any information anywhere that says that Ned was in any shape or form a scout. That is one reason why I do not believe Ned Colleti knows how to evaluate talent. I’m sure he’ll be great at arbitration hearings, but not at getting equal value in trades or robbing someone blind like Towers did to the Rangers GM when he got Young and Gonzalez for Eaton and Otsuka. I believe Logan White will be a spectacular GM because of his experience as a scouting director. People say, “How do you know he’ll be a great GM? Maybe he’s a great scouting director, but that doesn’t make him a great GM” That’s true, but, wasn’t the Indians current GM, Shapiro, their former scouting director? Now he’s their GM, and look at the wonderful talents they’ve developed and kept, only because Shapiro knows very well what he brought up and developed.

    Ned Colleti Out

    Logan In


    Who exaclty is Matt Kemp suppossed to lear how to mature from?

    Kent? Be proffesional like me, call out your teammates in the press when things dont go my way?

    Gonzo? Me, Me, Me.

    Nomar? Does he even talk?

    Lowe? Yeah how to cheat on your wife, with a reporter. The wife you have kids with?

    Penny? Mr Hot head?

    Loazia? Mr. This beard has been…

    Furcal? Mr double dui?

    Schmidt? lol

    Wolf? lol

    Pierre? does he talk? if he did he WOULD be a good person to learn from, just as long as it’s not learning how to play baseball, just life stuff.

    Hendu? and his shrink

    Hillenbran? Mr. my coach is a ****?

    Wells? who calls out the commissioner on a daily basis. not that he is wrong, but still…




    Grady-Mr. No responsiblity. This happens to every team?Your job is to coach. Coach.

    See what I mean?

    All I know is Loney, Kemp and Martin should be our 3-4-5 hitters for the next decade.

    The 2007 Dodgers are the only team since World War II to have two players 23 or younger batting at least .330 and we want to trade one of them for a pitcher? The list of players I would trade Kemp for is Puljos, A-rod and….i’ll get back to you.

    They are 23! 3-4 years from prime numbers…..let’s let these guys mature and come together as a team. If Kemp/Loney had been starting all year over others we would be in the playoffs and the dodgers would not be floating this stuff out there to make excuse for loosing 2007 in the offseason.


    Bottom line, the sports people at the L.A. Times are bigger babies than the Dodger vets. Why do we have to put up with the likes of Simers and Plaschke in a major market? I know, I know, we don’t have to read them. But they’re taking up space and reading them is like watching a train wreck…you just can’t turn way from the horror.


    dont trade kershaw…the last time we gave up on a pitching prospect like this was a big mistake he turned out to be pretty good i think his name was…pedro martinez?.yahh and as for trading kemp that is ridiculous its too early in his career to judge if hes a so called cancer give it some time hes too exciting and productive if he turns into a milton bradley then trade him who knows maybe we will recieve another eithier..get rid of pierre sign hunter/jones then we have a **** good out field.


    The Kemp/Kershaw for Santana trade… bleh. The Dodgers need hitting more than they need pitching right now. So if the Dodgers can get A-Rod, or someone that can effectively replace Kemp’s talent in the lineup, then go for the trade. You can’t just take out their #3 hitter without getting another one. And I believe that Kershaw has the potential to match Santana’s abilities. Maybe LaRoche (although I love that guy) and Elbert though. The Dodgers still have Josh Bell and Blake Dewitt behind LaRoche, so he wouldn’t be a terrible loss. That’s not including the A-Rod rumors. Elbert’s been injured, and they got a better southpaw prospect with Kershaw…. But I don’t think the Twins would go for that trade.

    Although I do like the Santana/Billingsley/Penny/Schmidt/Lowe, Loaiza, Kuo or Wolf rotation.

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