Today's game

An early start today…try to get some work done at the office, would ya?

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Martin, C

Gonzo, LF

Betemit, 3B

Loney, 1B

Ethier, RF

Martinez, 2B

Billingsley, P



    With the way Ethier and Kemp are swinging the bat right now its hard not to see them both in the lineup…however Gonzo’s and JP havebeen playing good too, what ya gona do?


    How can you keep Kemp hitting .376 out of the lineup?


    Yeah, the Dodgers are in 1st, but maybe they could be running away with it if they played the best players every day. Kemp and Ethier are better all around players than Gonzo or Pierre. There is no valid argument to differ. Good luck Bills!



    He may be the worst player in the history of baseball to play so many games in a row…


    I hope he proves me wrong for the day, but I see no valid reason for playing Martinez at second. His batting average should prove my point, but obviously not to Grady. He just won’t put the best team on the field period.


    I like commenting on the lineup but I only do when something suprises me. Which I fine these days very rare. I think GRADY’s doing a splended job giving everybody a chance. I’d like to add here that since Bill Mueller has become the batting coach the hitting has improved_______as everone knows_______. I have to admit I’m suprised with that. It looks like the Dodgers may be in need of a starting pitcher and although I hate to see someone on the 40 man roster used in a trade—I think COLLETTI has in his pocket along with Delwyn Young— Greg Miller, Micheal Megrew, Zachary Hammes and infieder Andy La Roche. Anybody else would be a suprise to me. Heres hoping BILLS has a good day and out pitches this kid Kyle Kendricks. I’m already looking forward to the 4 game series with the Mets. My daughter(A die heart Mets fan) and I plan to watch Sunday’s game together. Nerveracking even more so than last year’s NLDS because the Dodgers(I FEEL) are a better team than they were then. Although the starters haven’t been announced for that game at least HENDRICKSON should have enough rest. Getting back to today====LET’S GO YA BUMS BEAT THE PHILS.


    Gonzo hitting cleanup……let’s see if this can get him jumpstarted this secondhalf….he cooled off a bit since his recent surge from the last road trip prior to the break…

    wow, complaints about JP again…what else is new…

    anyways, anyone read on realgm about the yankee’s interest in betemit for scott proctor? what you guys think?


    How about Gonzo, Kemp and Ethier in the outfield? Pierre is a guy who is just not going to help, and Ned, you blew it on Pierre buddy!!!


    I think the streak of complaints is far more than J.P…must be the hangover from last night’s debacle from some of these people…lets take 2 of 3 and just keep us in it Bills!


    I respect Grady, but, can somebody please tell explain to me why he’s playing Martinez over Abreu at 2nd?? Anyone, anyone???


    alex…..exactly, in fact, pierre has been one of our most productive players the past couple weeks with his hits and his steals….

    i mean, if you’re going to complain about the guy, do it when he’s doing something bad…it hides your bias against him better by making you’re arguments more credible…..


    I do not have a problem with Pierre playing regularly. Meaning 7 or 8 out of every 10 games, but by no means does he deserve to NEVER SIT!

    If we were playing our best three OFs he would rarely play. I am not unrealistic to expect the Dodgers to just bench him, but how about hitting the pines a couple times each block of ten games?

    He is below average at everything he does except run…


    A lot of you continue to miss the mark with your complaints, the reason why Kemp and Ethier are not playing everyday is not Pierre, it’s Gonzalez. And Pierre has been much more productive than Gonzo the past month. It’s like a bad re-run that won’t stop playing on Nick @ Nite…


    I have a reason maybe not ‘the’ reason. Martinez is more likely to work the count in the eight spot and generate a walk. Also, he does have a good glove. I’m not saying I would start Martinez, I’m just giving you reasons why Grady did and you could. I’m just happy Betemit is starting today, he really deserves it.


    yep, like a bad nick @ nite re-run..couldn’t sum it up better myself…..

    the last couple days on this BLOG have been good with trade rumors and such, but the same old complaining has started up again today….all the micro-managers seems to get riled up after a loss…it’s a shame


    Who would of thought of saying what Alex just said, Betemit deserves a start, back in April or May? Especially over Nomar, who right now is just Nomore..


    Martinez is playing because they are probably trying to decide whether to DFA him or to option Abreu when a 12th pitcher is needed.


    casinod, I like Betemit for Proctor, we should sell while Betemit is valued a little higher (with his recent production). It’s not like he is being utilized that much with us and Proctor will give us an additional quality arm.


    Alex and Casino- I’m with you. I was down on Pierre too…. but that was back in May! How can you Dodger fans still be talking so much trash on the guy? He’s been playing his *** off. He’s getting on base, he’s causing havoc once he’s on, he’s stealing at leisure, he’s taking nice routes to the ball, etc. We all know his arm isn’t great but that seems to be his only weakness these days. It’s completely a bad nic-at-nite rerun.


    kevin….to answer your question, its because he’s getting paid 45 million, he’s blocking KEMP at CF, his OBP is below average, and he only has 17 or so extra base hits….LOL…that’s all people want to look at, and that’s why he gets crucified win or lose, when he plays well, great, average, or poorly…..

    are all of the above facts true? SURE they are…stars/salary don’t lie….but its not like he’s out there on the field being dead weight…he’s productive, and has a 10 game hit streak going..i cant wait for him to get on base because i know it’s going t be havoc..both on the basepaths and for the opposing pitcher via the distraction that he puts on them…

    if he was on a barry bonds like streak of 0 for 22 or something, then he probably should get a day off or two in between starts, but luckily that’s not the case, and he’s giving his all on the field and producing results….

    it’s a shame that on this BLOG JP is the hot topic day in and day out..


    Man, I would do everything in my power to hold onto Betemit. If Nomar’s numbers stay where they are, who do we put at 3rd next year? LaRoche?? As much as I want him to succeed in a Dodgers uniform, I’m just not sold. I feel much more comfortable trading LaRoche for pitching and keeping Betemit. I think is onto something much wiser; I’d add Betemit’s name to the list:

    “More importantly, the idea that the Dodgers might have to trade a player like Matt Kemp or James Loney or Chad Billingsley or Jonathan Broxton or Andre Ethier to get something valuable in return is total ****. There are always salary dumps, fine pieces to the puzzle, who can be had for less than the best prospects. Sometimes much less. There are always things you can do. Always, always, always.Again, as I said last week, I’m talking about starters like Bronson Arroyo, in particular, and Woody Williams. And while I won’t take credit for it, since Tim McCarver said it first, Octavio Dotel is a great idea. Look for Colletti to get one or two of these guys.”


    This JP stuff is a little odd. You come back to the blog after a couple of weeks and he’s still the whipping boy. I think he’s doing pretty good. The reason he was acquired made sense, as has the other moves Colletti has made. They haven’t all worked out, but he’s done a great job. Little has too, while I’m at it.


    It’s too bad you’re not sold on LaRoche, especially now that he’s healthy and on an incredible offensive run (6 homers in 2 weeks).


    6 in 2 weeks? Yikes. Maybe I should pay closer attention. Thanks Momoracci. Just when I think I’d make a great GM you have to go throw a wrench into my plan.


    is La Roche hitting those dingers in Vegas or on the road momoracci? if he indeed is healthy i hope he gets a Sept call up Nomar simply ain’t cutting it this year it’s that simple.

  25. Dodger

    FYI, we optioned Tony Abreu today and purchased the contract of Roberto Hernandez. He’s at the park and available for today’s game.


    NOthing personal against JP or Gonzo – both decent hard working guys IMO. I just have a problem with not putting the aboslute best lineup save for resting old/tired guys, on the field. JP has been better, but Gonzo and him cannot hold Kemp’s jock plain and simple and Coletti and Grady are full of it.


    Yes, but in the Vegas heat and high altitude…it is. Same in Coors before the humidor. Large park, easy to hit HR’s. Still good to see LaRoche knock some out. And Josh gave us the real reason why Martinez is starting. Abreu back to Vegas, where he can lay everyday. Good move. Hernandez was really good 7 years ago…


    When I saw Martinez in the line-up instead of Abreu, I guessed that the only reason to have done it is because they were sending Abreu down to make room for another pitcher. This is not a surprise. As I mentioned, I would have optioned Stults, given his performance, and gone with 11 pitchers for a few more days, but Stults may be needed for more long relief, and the move ultimately was going to be made with Abreu going down. Stults or Houlton will probably go down when Wolf gets back.

    It’s too bad for Abreu, but he’s gotten some good experience, and will be back here no later than September 1. He’s prove that he is capable–if he can work on some things and become stellar at AAA (ala Loney, Kemp, etc.), that would be great, and then he’ll be locked in as the second baseman of the future.

    Here’s hoping that Hernandez can fill the (relatively small) hole we have in the bullpen–creating a 7th inning triumverate of Seanez, Hernandez, and Beimel (with Beimel pitching an occassional 8th inning, and of course the left-handed specialist). If he works out, and Wolf comes back, we probably have the pieces we need, and can figure out that fifth starter with the guys we have.


    If Bronson Arroyo’s available perhaps he would be a great fit….signed through 2010 with a relatively moderate salary in 08′– has been pitching well lately considering the hitter’s park in Cincy. What would Red’s be asking in return? Perhaps Delwyn Young and a pitcher???


    Last game Hernandez pitched in was ironically against the Phillies…gave up three runs in one inning of work. HR’s to Dobbs and Howard.


    Q: What happens when a manager fields his “best” possible lineup every day?

    A: They get overworked, injured, and bench players get no playing time to keep their swings and fielding up to par.

    Bench players HAVE to get some time, just like our aging veterans HAVE to get some time off. Otherwise, when injuries hit, the bench players are basically coming out of spring training. The 25-man roster is not best utilized if Grady only runs out your favorite players every game…


    juan pierre past 5 games or so:

    7 8 0 0 0 2 4 .381 .409 .381

    not bad i’d say

    as much as i love Gonzo, in the brief amount we have played in the second half, he had not been doing as spectacular as the first half. here’s to hoping that he gets it going today.


    1 3 0 0 0 0 0 .176 .176 .176


    Hit the kid hard too bad only 1 run. Roberto Hernandez— seen him last year with the Mets nothing stands out about him.


    Pierre’s been hitting .400 the last couple of weeks BUT he still isn’t walking to save his life nor has he nor will he. SO for him to get a productive player the rest of the year he’s going to have to bat .400? yeah good luck with that.


    Yea.. that was an error. Hope they fix that. I have to think that Ethier or Kemp make that catch, which makes me both happy and sad…..


    Struggling but this is a good lineup. Funny how Aaron Rowand reminds me of Ron Cey when he’s at the plate.


    Max i agree that Pierre’s hot hitting has been a big part of his production and yes he has to start concentrating on taking some pitches and getting walks. BUT more of his production is coming from his base running skills more than anything, you have not seen him hit very many doubles or triples the past 10 games but he has stolen a lot of bases and putting himself in position to score the run and when he does get on base he makes it count everytime. SO when his bat does cool off i feel his production will continue and his career numbers after the all-star break show that. Im sure he will have his days but as of now the guy is getting the job done and i dont see it stopping anytime soon………. Bills scares me with his high pitch counts, i mean come on, almost 50 pitches in 2 innings???? not so quality when we have a depleted pen! I really hope NED finds some kind of way to get us some quality relief so we wont have to worry about it anymore.


    Dauhustlasbac…you do understand he has to be on base to steal bases right? does anyone understand that? I just want to make sure cuz when he goes back down to hitting .280 for a couple of weeks i don’t want people telling me “looks he hitting” and not walking.

    “dude…not much chance for walks when you’re hitting .400”

    dude…when ted williams hit .406 in 1941 he walked 147 times. His OBP for that year was .553

    Pierre is FAR from Ted Williams but just because you say he high average, which he doesn’t, that doesn’t give him an excuse NOT to walk.

    With Pierre a walk is LITERALLY as good as a hit since 99.99999 percent of his hits look like a 12 year old girl hit them. Plus if he walked more it be less of a chance for an out which he currently is probably at the top of.

    We all remember why outs are bad right?


    “Billingsley looking to become the first dodger to start 7-0 since matt herges”


  40. is talking about Betemit for Scott Proctor in a straight-up trade. Seems the Yankees need pitching more than a player like Betemit, but what do you guys think about that possibility from the Dodgers’ standpoint?


    scott proctors arm is more used up then Paris Hilton’s…well you know.

    He was used in 83 games last year and is on pace to do the same this year.


    that was a nice defensive play by martin. i’m telling you, it’s the scruffy look….it gives him more character


    ANDRE ETHIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    seriously we can’t continue without him and Kemp playing EVERYDAY!!!!!


    Go, Betemit! I’m now going to root for this guy, because I can no longer stand Nomar in the regular lineup. I would not trade Betemit for Proctor, who’s just another worn out reliever – no better than ones we already have.
    Great show, Ethier!!! Gonzo needs to sit and allow both Ethier and Kemp in the game. Thanks for the first half, Gonzo, but you’re not the Dodgers’ future, so let’s give the guys who are their chance.


    Max ok In Your Opinion, when he is not walking and hitting .280 there is no production to be made because he is not getting on base, right?

    well how about at the beggining of the season when, you included and everyone else, doubted him as being a production player? :

    APRIL – .274 AVG (31 – 113), 21 R, 12 SB and yes only 5 BB’s

    To me that is a productive player, yes was not raking in the RBI’s and hitting above .300 but he was scoring runs and stealing bases which in turn helps the club win! We did not sign him to be a superstar but to do what he is doing and help the team win!

    He is hitting .344 AVG, 14 R, 8 SB with only 2 BB’s and is helping this team win this month. Like i have stated before we will be saying at the end of the year “What would of happened if Pierre wasnt on this team?”





    I stand by this statement I made too.

    The Bradley/APerez for Ethier trade was as bad as the PMartinez for DeShields trade.





    It’s great to see ETHIER with 8 HRs But the 40 RBI looks good too. AND how’s tha AVG.




    You just don’t trade .800+ OPS CF’s (Bradley). They don’t grow on trees.





    Kemp sure has a lot of strikeouts this season in limited playing time… in fact Pierre only has 2 more strikeouts than kemp in almost 300 more at bats! I’d rather have Pierre in their regularly right now if it is a choice between the two of them. I think the current outfield rotation is working rather well.


    i agree spanner that it is working well but i would rather see Kemp and Ethier in the line-up everyday wether it be if Pierre sits or Gonzo sits.


    you honestly would rather have pierre than kemp in regularly? remember kemp is practically just as fast as pierre so SB isn’t a factor. ill take kemp’s SO’s if i get the HRs too.


    Dammit so freaking close to getting out of it, he’s completely on fumes and what can you do? Alright he’s out of it, new game, Bills is done.


    Pierre will make more outs not striking out then Kemp will striking out. A ground out is just as bad as a strike out.


    jspelk i would not rather have Pierre than Kemp but i dont think you can compare the two’s speed Kemp is not as fast as Pierre (although a race would be exciting) and he has no where near the ability of Pierre’s to steal a base IMO (atleast he hasnt shown it yet.


    BILLS struggled all game but I think it’s typical of him as a starter this year. He was more dominent as a reliever. I think he’ll improve as his career goes on.


    Kemp is not as good a base stealer as Pierre.. JP is really one of the best stolen base guys in the league.. Kemp has some speed but has never been a high base stealer in the minors..

    Strikeouts can kill a rally.. stolen bases can ignite one.


    I hope we’re not planning to send Bills out for another inning. I think he’s reached his limit in this one. I’m disappointed with his pitch count and inability to finish these guys off.


    Who would of thought of saying what Alex just said, Betemit deserves a start, back in April or May? Especially over Nomar, who right now is just Nomore..

    Me. Go check my posts.

    It’s not fair to bring up Pierre’s stats over the last 5 games without bring up the stats of the players we would rather see than him over the last 5 games. So here you go. To make it wasy I will just say since July 1

    .350 .395 .700 1.095 Kemp

    .469 .528 .625 1.153 Ethier

    .345 .367 .431 .798 Pierre

    The difference in the slugging and obp far out weights the 8 steals.


    Kemp has a chance to change the game in one swing. Pierre does not.

    Pierre is probably our 4th best outfielder. 5th in you count loney.


    Basically my take is that all 4 OF should be playing equally. I feel they have all earned it with their play. Pierre included.


    I also disagree with you Max and I don’t very often. Pierre to can change the game with one swing too. And then a steal and then a sacrafice bunt and then by someone else getting a base hit or scoring fly ball. Gosh that is tiring just writing it. LOL


    Loney isnt an outfielder.. and you need your quick speed guys as much as your big bats… Its not all about sitting back and waiting for someone to hit a home run.. this isnt the american league..


    I think it was just another of Grady’s mistakes to put Bills in the BP at the start of the season. It just screwed up his stamina, which was well in gear the second half of last season as a starter. Badly as we need a real quality starter, if one was available, I would be willing to give up Bills in the trade along with another prospect from AAA. We might see what that can get us.


    THAT SUN always hated it when I played. These guys do a great job fighting it. I say it was one of the hardest things to cope with. No wonder most of the games are played at night.


    Billingsley gives up 4 runs to a team that scores more runs then anyone in the league and now you’d be willing to trade him messagebear? please Billingsley is probably better then any starter we’d get in return and in a couple of years he would easily be better then the starter we’d get in return if we traded him this year.


    I don’t get any of these trade rumors, I would much rather take my chances with 6 years of Loney guaranteed, than 1 1/2 of Texiera. Same goes with any other pitcher out there with Bills. He’s only 23, St. Louis gave up on Danny Haren at the same age and traded him to Oakland…the rest is as they say history.


    HAAH… the irony. All the talk about outfielders and Gonzo goes yard! I’ll take ’em anyway we get ’em! Lets win this Dodgers! Keep the pressure on the Madres!


    Yes i agree Jungar that Ethier and Kemp have been on a terror and show no signs of stopping but to take Pierre out of this line-up we would be pulling out our top Run scorer and who in their right mind would do that?! How many top scorers on a team do you see sitting in the majors right now? Gonzo has shown how he can help this team so to have 4 OF who are contributing is a problem but its a very good problem to have. They are seeing plenty of playing time and i dont see it hindering their play at all in the last month so why change something that is working?!


    Bills is 22 people. Most 22 year old pitchers are still in double A or TRiple A and Bills is in the big leagues now for close to over a full season of baseball and he’s 13-4 with a 3.58 ERA.


    im really not that sure pierre would win in a foot race versus kemp but it’d be interesting to see.


    i agree with you max that Bills is amazing and will continue to be in years to come, so yes a trade with him involved would be a very, very, very stupid idea!!!! Messagebear i dont know what u were thinking.


    He’ll be 23 in 11 days got 11 days ahead of myself, it’s a season where he’ll turn 23.


    jspelk, Kemp is defiantely fast but Pierre is faster with no doubt in my mind that Pierre would take Kemp in a foot race. The added experience and skill to steal bases just makes Pierre that much better or a base runner than Kemp


    NOW if we can only shut them down this inning. The inning after we go ahead. That’s always a momentum builder.


    I bet Kemp would win a race against Pierre. Pierre is better on the bases but in a foot race i bet Kemp wins.

    His legs are about as long as Pierre is tall.


    I’m thinking a Blanton or Arroyo, or similar quality established starter would be preferable to Bills – just my opinion.


    I heard Kemp on Dodgertalk tongue in cheekly say he could beat Pierre in a footrace. But, bace stealing ability alone, Pierre is better. Kemp probably could beat him cross country. Kemp is an athletic beast! But, 90 feet sprinting I think would go to Pierre.


    lol “His legs are about as long as Pierre is tall.

    Posted by: | July 18, 2007 02:16 PM ”

    I thought that was pretty funny!

    See what i mean about playing time? Kemp in for pitcher and now playing RF. What manager would do that and what player would accept that? That shows what kind of players we have on this ballclub. I LOVE IT!!!!

    GO DODGERS!!!!!


    we would be pulling out our top Run scorer and who in their right mind would do that?!

    Me! How many times do I have to say it. Part of the reason this is always re-hashed is statements like this. Me man. That dosen’t make me right it just makes me stand behind my opinion. I feel that runs scored are dependant on others as well as opportunities to hit at the top of the order. Like I say I am not that down on Pierre as others, but thats because this team needs power not because I have anything against Pierre and his ability. He could be rested just as easily as Kemp or Gonzo is all I am saying.

    I stand by my take at the start of the season that this lineup would generate the most runs:










    But I do agree with one thing you said for sure: “I dont see it hindering their play at all in the last month so why change something that is working?!


    Matt Kemp is a stud. If NEd TRades him or Loney this year he will probably be ripped to pieces by an angry mob.


    And you know what, no offense but i would not want you as my manager, if you wanted it that way. IMO Pierre is a big reason we have won games not only this month but as well this season. I do also repect your opinion, lol i just dont have to agree. So lets agree to disagree!


    I like athletic beast myself…they’re going nowhere. Well took a great throw to get Kemp. PIERRE WOULD HAVE BEEN SAFE! lol


    boy i sure am glad i chose to go to the first game vs. the phillies and not any of the others. that was definitely the most fun to watch…exciting

    this one ain’t bad either


    Thats fine man. I dont look at silly stats like runs scored. I look at stats like runs created. Which includes runs scored AND rbi.

    RC/27 – Runs Created per 27 outs – This is the number of runs a team of each player would score given their stats. RC * 27 / # of outs made by the player

    3.65 Pierre

    5.86 Ethier

    9.53 Kemp

    a team full of Pierres gets you 3.6 runs a game (sound familar) a team full of Kemps gets you 9.5 runs a game


    And I respect you to, were all here for the same reason..We just have different thoughts on how to go about getting there.


    jungar are you subracting HRs from those totals, because if not you’re giving those guys credit for an extra run for every homer.


    Silly stats like runs scored??

    Of you dont score runs you dont win.. how is that stat silly?

    Its a real number.. unlike RC/27 which seems to be some made up stat…


    Interesting way at looking at things with that RC/27 stat jungar, but i have one question why 27 outs?


    27 outs is the number of outs in one game.

    god i hope bombko doesnt find some way to lose this one.


    Those stats are from baseball reference. I gave their defenition. I am not sure if it subtracts a homer. I mean I see what your saying. A solo homerun counts as a run scored and a rbi in real life even though it results in one run, so yeah not sure exactly. But even still, right?

    My point I guess in general is to look beyond runs, rbi and avg.

    If you dont create runs, you dont score runs and if you dont score runs you dont win either. Dont be stupid Spanner. Thats not a made up stat its just a combination of runs scored and rbi divided. If Pierre, Kemp were given 27 outs to work with this is how many runs they would score based on their stats.


    More importantly; lets go Andre, create some runs!! LOL

    I don’t mean to argue and I am sorry i’ll shut up now! Go Blue.


    More importantly; lets go Andre, create some runs!! LOL

    I don’t mean to argue and I am sorry i’ll shut up now! Go Blue.


    o ok thanx for clearing that one up there Max. I still dont get how that pertains to what we see day in or day out, those stats dont show game situations in which you can win or lose a game! So to me and IMO that stat cannot work in a full season, it is merely a way to get an individual aspect.


    yeah…don’t want to risk kent with the glove if you can’t replace him with abreu. vin scully makes a good point


    Vin Scully makes a good point is redundant lol, if Saito doesn’t nail this down, this will be the moment we come back to…not pinch hitting for Martinez. Lets finish it Saito!


    jungar how are Pierre’s #s that low? I only counted 297 outs for Pierre (and thats if you include DPs), with 82 overall in run production. So with your formula shouldn’t it be:

    82×27/297= 7.45


    Jungar and i didnt say that to argue i just said it to get my point across that that stat does not show what is most, important game situations. And i dont think you should shut up because of what spanner said he has his opinion as so do you so why back down now? NOT TRYING TO START A FIGHT HERE AT ALL, just want to make it known. lol


    Let’s hope that sending ABREU down doen’t hurt the Dodgers today LET’S GO SAITO


    Abreu really needs to play more often.. he’ll get that in vegas.. I’d rather they bring valdez back up to backup kent & furcal and release martinez.


    It’s not only a question of pinch hitting for Martinez – why is he playing in the first place. We option a good field/ .280’s hitter to Vegas and keep a .150’s hitter on the roster. Martinez and Saenz both are totally wasted on this roster – that would make room for a pitcher and for Abreu with a lot more value to the club. DFA them both.


    i agree we should DFA them both but martinez DOES have some value at least with the glove. i wonder if marlon will be activated for the mets series…speaking of DFA.


    VICTORY! Saito with the smooth glove! He probably saved his own save with that one…yeah something like that! LOSE PADRES LOSE!



    SAITO DOES HIS JOB FOR THE 25 TIME. After a pitchout I never saw in my life. Talk about getting signals crossed. You know it’s pretty embarassing getting thrown out at second on a base hit. Like TOMKO almost was, I can tell you__ I know.


    Bills threw far too many pitches today… i know you dont wanna burn the bullpen Grady, but 113 is a lot for a 22 year old. Especially on a mid-day game.


    Extra base hits win games!

    Bills needs to work on his pitch counts, but he’s young. He can still get there ( to a place where he uses less pitches ).


    what does a mid day game have to do with a pitch count? he had to leave him in there… you dont pull the pitcher if he has a lead in the bottom of the fifth inning, that is unless you want that pitcher to throw at you in the dugout during his next outing.


    In case anybody doesn’t know, there proberbly is someone who doesn’t. ETHIER is batting over .300


    Nice win!!!


    BR has him at 311 outs. So thats part of the number descrpency. Beyond just the totals I think you have to account for slugging and on base. So yeah JP may hit .500 for those 27 outs with all singles and steal 10 bags but Ethier will hit 330 but with 10 doubles 1hr and 5 walks so its a cumulative thing. I don’t know exactly but the formula is simply stated as:

    RC/27 – This is the number of runs a team of each player would score given their stats.

    What I can tell you is it seems legit. Here are the leaders in that stat over the last 5 years

    Chase Utley Alex Rodriguez

    Ryan Howard David Ortiz

    Derrek Lee Alex Rodriguez

    Barry Bonds Vladimir Guerrero

    Albert Pujols Manny Ramirez

    Barry Bonds Alex Rodriguez

    Barry Bonds Jason Giambi

    Todd Helton Carlos Delgado


    As far as pitch counts go. there are only a hand full of pitchers that should ever go too far over 100. BILLS went his distance.


    IMO we set our pitch counts WAY too low for pitchers in MLB. Japan has an avg pitch count of over 130. Its all in the conditioning of the pitcher. The workout regiment of Japanese pitchers is a LOT different from what it is here, and look at the quality of pitchers that have come out of Japan. Just my two cents.


    jungar do you have the link to that website? I like that idea for a statistic, I’m just not really understanding how they arrive at those #s.


    what does a mid day game have to do with a pitch count? he had to leave him in there… you dont pull the pitcher if he has a lead in the bottom of the fifth inning, that is unless you want that pitcher to throw at you in the dugout during his next outing.

    Posted by: | July 18, 2007 03:08 PM

    The heat takes a bigger toll on the pitcher during the day… it makes it seem like he worked more than 113 pitches. Furthermore there is a lot of data supporting limiting pith counts for younger pitchers no matter how well conditioned they are… pitchers in Japan get hurt more often than they do here, and they also have a 6 man rotation so that’s just more recovery time.


    dodgerdude, warmer weather is actually better for a pitcher because it keeps your muscles/tendons looser and warm.


    actually in the hot weather you get tired faster.

    Bills won’t have arm problems, at least he shouldn’t. Have you seen his lower body? Thats where he gets the power. His arm wasn’t tired his legs were.


    charris, not if ur pitching for over 2 hours… its simple as far as i see it. take a 3 mile jog at 2pm one day. then a few days later take the same jog at 7pm. When do u think you’d feel more tired?


    charris… i see what ur arguing though… in warm weather you get loose easier and are generally more flexible, but you will get tired faster. And when pitchers are tired is when they are at risk for injury. They start to get lazy with their legs and body during their delivery, and depend more on their arms to get the ball to the plate. Same theory as say an ankle injury being responsible for an arm injury. Pitcher tries to compensate for one part of the body by overcompensating with another part. I.E. Eric Gagne after that knee sprain in 2005 spring.


    I think that all comes down to the individual though, how well conditioned are they etc. It’s a pitching coach’s job to notice mechanical breakdowns, and while I don’t like to see Bills pitch count get to 115, I really don’t think warm weather has much of a bearing on his health. The 115 pitches, thats what’ll get you hurt.


    as long as grady doesn’t pull a dusty baker and let bills become kerry wood (who he’s been compared to) i think we’ll be fine. managers are too cautious sometimes with young pitchers these days, imo. 30 years ago no one would ever worry that bills pitched 113 pitches in the middle of july.


    casinod383: “it’s a shame that on this BLOG JP is the hot topic day in and day out..”

    It’s what I affectionately refer to as “Ground Hog Day”; the same bashing every single day, over and over and over again.

    Pierre leads the Dodgers in hits and runs scored and is second in the NL in stolen bases. He has now hit safely in 10 straight, of which many were multi-hit games. Quite frankly, I enjoy watching him play – not to mention that he threw me a BP ball yesterday.

    GREAT win today! Now let’s sweep the Mets AGAIN!!!


    PS: Hey casinod383 – I sent you an e-mail.


    Pierre’s hits are misleading.

    Martin-Hits (101) + BB (39)=140 times on base (321 AB)

    Furcal-Hits (99) + BB(35)= 134 times on base (356 AB)

    Luis Gonzalez-Hits (89) + BB (41)=130 Times on base (310 AB)

    Pierre-Hits (113) + BB (16)=129 times on base (394 AB)


    I have been reading the dodgerthoughts blog the past few days and think that those people are completely off their respective rockers. They talk philosophers more than Dodger baseball, thats sacrilege on a Dodger blog IMO. They also use the most obscure stats I’ve ever seen while evaluating players, it’s almost like they try to 1-up each other with the latest, greatest evaluating methods. I guess I just don’t get it.


    As was pointed out earlier, Billingsley is still 22 years old. He is maturing. He will have ups and downs, his control might come and go, and he might throw too many pitches are rarely go more than 6 innings. He might well be the next #1 starter for the Dodgers after another season or two of experience. It seems very unlikely he will be less than a decent starter. I wouldn’t trade him unless the offer was stunning.

    The Dodgers traded Pedro Martinez when he was 21 years old. Pedro threw out of the pen in the beginning too. Not saying Bills will be Pedro, but it should be very tough to swallow to trade him.

    I’m not worried about Chad’s 113 pitches today – Grady is not going to make a habit out of that (he’s not Dusty Baker), but the pen has been used ALOT and Bills just had to pitch the fifth.


    Hey max – Something happened at the game today that reminded me of you.

    When Tomko came in to pinch run for “the old fat guy” (as you and a few others call him), a Dodger “spectator” (it’s hard to call him a fan) began booing Tomko for coming into the game AS A PINCH RUNNER.

    An older and obvious long-time Dodger fan asked the guy why he was booing a Dodger (regardless of who it was) instead of cheering for him. At that, the spectator began yelling “Two and Seven, Two and Seven, Two and Seven” (Tomko’s record).

    The older fellow said “You’re not a true Dodger fan. A true Dodger fan cheers for the Dodgers, they don’t boo them.” And you know what? That Dodger fan was absolutely correct. It’s not always about stats; it’s about the love of the game and the love of the Dodgers.

    In the months that I have been reading you posts, I have found that approximately 78.337% of them are negative in nature (OK, so I made that number up, but I bet you $20 that I’m not too far off. If I am, you can keep the $20 that you owe me).

    My point is that you really need to learn how to enjoy this great game of baseball and lose that chip on your shoulder over Pierre, Nomar, Grady, Ned, the washed up old vets, the old fat guy, etc., etc., etc. Try kicking back and enjoy being a true Dodger fan instead of a “two and seven” kind of spectator.



    I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but was worried about Billingsley. Not a long-term thing, but we are relying on him big time until Wolf comes back (when we will still rely on him, but there will be a little less pressure). Was he just off today? Hopefully that’s all it was, against a slugging team.

    Tony Jackson said he was typical in throwing too many pitches, which is true, but I get the sense from all of his writing that he is high on Bills in the long-term (or even medium-to-long-term), but will be a journalist and critical of problems like too many pitches. (Actually, he seems like a fan, and seems to have the same attitude with all of the kids–very high on their abilities, but critical on the mistakes of youth).

    I don’t like that he threw 113 pitches. They should try to keep him to around 100, particularly because of his youth (you have to be more careful with guys under 25, as the arm is still developing), but if once every blue moon he goes over 110, he should be OK–never more than 115-120.

    I still think it is worth it to get either a front-line starter or a middle-of-the-rotation starter (not to replace Bills, but to shore up the fifth spot). There are few guys on the 25-man roster that I would deal, and none of the guys that people really want (in other words–if they played in today’s game, they are basically untouchable). This makes it tough, of course, and probably the best and most likely move is no deal. But is there a team out there with an expiring contract that just won’t be competitive soon enough to be useful (like the Nationals), or a veteran who was placed on a team that figured to compete but won’t do it this year (say the Cardinals). The idea here is that a trade that is not really balanced other than as something of a salary dump for a rebuilding club, or someone we can get for a low prospect and cash considerations. The Maddux deal last year is the model.

    Someone mentioned Bronson Arroyo, and that’s not bad. Cincy is a possibility because they may not be rebuilding for next year.

    Woody Williams might fit that mold–the Astros are bad and don’t need a 41-year old getting in the way of rebuilding–but I am not sure if he has finally hit his wall. Jason Jennings too, who’s contract ends this year. (Oswalt would be great, but they would surely ask way too much, and he is likely to be one of the building blocks for them.)

    Matt Morris may fit the mold, although he is signed through 2008–but the Giants will probably still be rebuilding until 2009. Plus, we beat him up pretty good the other day.

    Here’s an idea that I admit is both radical and unlikely–what about Roger Clemens? I realize that the Yankees have been better, but if they are 10 games out at the trading deadline, there is a decent chance that they become sellers. We could provide a prospect and cash considerations, but the biggest upside for the Yankees is that they save about $10 Million due to Clemens for the remainder of a wasted season. If he decides to play next year, they are as much in the hunt for him as they would be, and if Clemens is looking for one more shot at a championship, his coming to the Dodgers make boost us from competitor to the favorite to win the NL Pennant (and neither the Angels or Red Sox, who are the AL favorites) would go for him. And then it’s about winning the best of seven series. So it might be his best chance.


    I have to agree that the Juan Pierre arguments are tiresome.

    The indisputable facts:


    His OBP is .316 or so at the moment.

    His season OBP hasn’t been over .330 since 2004.

    He makes outs at a league-leading rate.

    He is a good base-stealer, 81% success this year (38/9).

    He has no power (career .374 SLG, .340 this year)

    The subjective observations:


    He has a weak throwing arm.

    He is a fast baserunner.

    He never gets hurt, apparently.

    His defensive seems to have improved since a shaky start.

    Perhaps he distracts pitchers when he’s on-base (Greg Maddux and Chris Young pay no attention, however.)

    Can we stipulate these and move on?

    If you want to bash Pierre, might I suggest this blog, which you should find a friendly environment for your opinion:


    That was me that mentioned Arroyo and I think its an excellent idea if the price is right. The Reds im sure would like to dump his salary and we do have some pieces to deal that aren’t crucial for the future. Importantly Arroyo is someone who will give you innings which is clearly what we need as the BP will continue to be overworked by the current rotation. I just wonder how much more $ mcourt is willing to take on this year since he already spent a lot in the offseason and not exactly gotten the best return.


    Pierre rankings:

    2nd in AB’s

    8th in hits

    35th in average

    69th in OBP

    as you can see his hits are a product of his number of AB’s as you can tell by his average and horrible OBP but whatever. I guess i’ll stop looking at facts and just sit back. I mean Bush did it and he got reelected and everythings fine now.,…



    hey thanks for the rankings on pierre….but who the h*ll cares??? it’s getting old already…real old..


    fansince…..good observation…i doubt you’re too far off…i began to feel that way about certain posters as well…

    i thought we were all rooting for the same team, and i THOUGHT that what mattered was the NAME ON THE FRONT of the jersey, NOT the name on the back….reading this BLOG and the same old posts about the same topics, but backed up with “new stats and rankings” really gets annoying when you’re beating a dead horse day after day


    Juan Pierre is the kind of overpaid overrated player Dodger management and fans have come to love over the last few years. But Whatever…He won’t be a Dodger for the whole contract.


    wow..can you give us all another JP funfact? im dying to know what else you can come with..that one was kind of original, props to you!


    I’m watching the Pards Mets game and so far its been all Frias. Maddux pitched his usual great 5 innings and their crusing along right now at 4-1. Going into the 8th. I hope the Mets look this bad against us.



    “This team, in its current form, will not make the playoffs.

    In fact, without our stellar pitching, we would probably be dwelling in the cellar behind the Giants.

    Management MUST decide whether they’re satisfied with the prospect of slowly falling out of contention, or if they are willing to have some GUTS and upgrades the spots that are hurting the team via trade or calling up Kemp and/or Loney.

    Although I always maintain hope we’ll make the playoffs, the realist in me tells me this team, despite its awesome pitching staff, is simply too weak with their bats and on defense to compete with the SD and Arizona.

    Posted by: | June 7, 2007 10:28 PM”


    Furcal, SS

    Abreu, 3B

    Nomar, 1B

    Kent, 2B

    Gonzo, LF

    Martin, C

    Ethier, RF

    Clark, CF

    Kuo, P

    I must say, I feel much better about this team than I did that night. The following day, Kemp was called back up and Loney followed shortly thereafter. Additionally, since then, Grady moved Martin up in the order and has generally done a decent job of platooning Gonzo, Kemp, JP, and Ethier in the outfield and Kent, Abreu, Nomar, and Betemit in the infield.

    I said it that very night, CHANGES HAD TO BE MADE. Thankfully, management has reacted and things are looking much brighter.

    I can say – with considerable confidence – that this team is not very far away from being a Championship contender. At this point, any trade talk should be dismissed unless its clear we are getting the better part of a deal (most proposed trades I’ve read about are completely laughable…i.e. Meat for Proctor, Dotel for Loney/Kemp, and any trade involving Texiera)

    I really think our pitching issues can be addressed from within (Kershaw and Meloan seem to be comparable to anything other clubs might be willing to offer) and the offense is no longer in need of repair.



    KErshaw is 19 and has never pitched higher then low A. The only way he’d make a difference on the big club is if every other pitchers arm in front of him feel off.

    We need Wolf back and once he’s back try everyone and anyone in the 5th starters spot before we make a deal.


    Linebrink went wild in the 8th after 2 out walked Valentin & Beltran and Wright hit a 3run HR to tie it.


    my cousins at the padres game and just texted me that they were going to win and Wright goes and punches him in the FACE HAHAHAHA.


    I think Kershaw for 2 or 3 starts would be a good idea and could boost his development; anything more than that would be risky for Kershaw in the long run. He has great stuff and great pitching numbers, so he could def help us out for a few starts. Meloan definitely needs to be up here soon though.


    Green, Lo Duca and Milledge didn’t even put up a fight against Hoffman after S.D took the lead in the 8th, that should be a nice bus ride for them to L.A…


    The next 5 days will be something with these Met fans. The Phillies got a pretty tough offense Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Cey look alike Aaron Rowand, Pat Burrell, and that Shane Victorino looked pretty good. I think they should win a coupler games against the Frias. We got to keep our hitting shoes on. I think our pitchers can handle the Mets, we should win a few.******LETS GO DODGERS******


    marlon being called up for tommorrows game…sad. why couldn’t we have DFAed the fat one instead?


    Hey jspelk2 – Where did you hear that about Marlon? I can’t seem to find it.

    Hey max – I agree with you on this one – There is no way that Kershaw is ready for the Bigs or even Triple-A yet. That said, I do believe that he will be in Double-A Jacksonville before the end of the season.



    Very strange mix up there in the 9th with Sammy and Rus, I have never seen anything like that before. What I was waiting for there was someone to state how it was Juan Pierres fault because I am sure it would not have happened if Kemp was playing CF and not Pierre….sorry guys I just had to. I think the outfield situation is perfect how it is now, and Gonzo will get more and more days off and the kids will get everyday playing status next yr when Gonz retires because he has another world series ring on his finger.


    Went to and yesterday Willie Randolph said that Marlon needed more AB’s before being called up, but would be up in the not too distant future. So we’ll see…we have other things to worry about than one former Dodger coming back to haunt us, we already have a whole team of them on their way from San Diego.


    Kershaw could be in Double A soon. Ken Grunick (or whatever) reported in his mailbag he had been promoted then that sentence was taken out. I think its a matter of time BUT i don’t think they want to rush him. I wouldn’t be surprised if they fast tracked him and i wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him in A ball this year.

    I personally hope they take their time with him. Just hopefully they don’t sign some washed up vet to take his spot.


    Andy LaRoche has been ON FIRE the last two weeks.

    In his last ten game he’s batting .421 with 5 doubles 6 home run 5 walks and 2 K.

    On the season now he is batting .301 9 HR 24 RBI (ouch no one gets on base there apperently) 25 walks 22 K’s .385 OBP .545 SLG and a .931 OPS

    pretty good for someone who isn’t a legit prospect.


    one more thing before i go to work…The Mets called up Marlon Anderson…another former dodger that will more then likely have a career game against us.

    With Marlon it will be a little easier to swallow i guess. He was a favorite of mine and i hope him all the success even if it comes at the expense of the Dodgers who should have NEVER DFA’d him to begin with.


    I hear ya on the Marlon thing there Max. I Stated that same thing when he was DFA’d along with the Valdez DFA that the tubby tomato and Martinez should have gone instead…They are throwing fastballs past the tomato now and Valdez is smokin in AAA.He has all the range of martinez maybe more with base stealing speed… no power but he can get on base and can score alot better then tomko as a baserunner…But I was told in march that nobody would even remember him midseason….Hope Andersom Green Valentine and LoDuca don’t beat us….


    Pierre’s hits are misleading.

    Martin-Hits (101) + BB (39)=140 times on base (321 AB)

    Furcal-Hits (99) + BB(35)= 134 times on base (356 AB)

    Luis Gonzalez-Hits (89) + BB (41)=130 Times on base (310 AB)

    Pierre-Hits (113) + BB (16)=129 times on base (394 AB)

    I see why he’s complaining on Pierre not getting on base much but I wonder how many times on base has he got on and force Furcal. Of course force play reaching on base with an error, pass ball, wild pitch, and hbp should be adding on that list.


    Did you guys read the article on Eric Gagne on Yahoo Sports? They asked Scott Boras (Gagne’s agent) if he would be willing to accept a contract extension for Gagne. “‘Extension’ is not a word I, uh, understand,’ Boras said, chuckling.” (Neither is love of the game. What a pompos jerk).

    It sounds like another JD Drew type deal is in the works for Boras; baseball’s anti-christ.

    Here is the article:;_ylt=AsUXPYNQE3f98uV7K3N3SX4RvLYF?slug=ti-gagne071807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



    That article above is why I didn’t belive or cry for Ned when Drew opted out. He acted like it was a big shock, freaked out and signed a guy for 20 million with a huge injury history over the last 5 years gave him a no trade clause and blocked one of our best prospects who makes 330k.

    This is also why I have been saying A-rod will opt out for sure and that before we get to excited about Texiera we should be weary that he will also bolt to free agency and not allow us to extend his current contract.


    “I see why he’s complaining on Pierre not getting on base much but I wonder how many times on base has he got on and force Furcal. Of course force play reaching on base with an error, pass ball, wild pitch, and hbp should be adding on that list.”

    there is but 1. they are too much of a pain to look up and calculate and if you look at Pierre’s OBP you can tell it won’t make a huge difference at all. Now can you all stop using Pierre’s hits as a sign of his worth?


    is that all you got casino? i was expecting you to tell me how much im not a fan? Im rather dissapointed. I woke up this morning waiting for you to tell me how much i care about the team.

    Of course God forbid you try and make a decent argument against those facts but whatever. I’ll just continue not to be a fan.


    I retract my dodgerthoughts statements yesterday, I think I must have been reading the blog during some odd times. Fogey, I usually agree with your perspective on things so I decided to check it out again. Upon further review, most of those guys have good insight and analysis. I guess there is just a little more small talk/rift raff that goes on over there but thats fine, you just need to search a little more for the “meat”. You have to admit Fogey some of that stuff that goes on over there is a bit strange.


    Charris I am there alot and it begins to become a little community. I think after time you will see that it’s more about a community of dodger fans who talk mostly about the dodgers but also about other things in life. It breaks up the Juan Pierre ***** stuff. I have learned alot there. I disagree with alot to. Sometime stats can be aggrevating. But so can subjective anyalisis to. I like to think I do both. I typically bring up stats here more than I think about them myslef because i feel too many people think of things as totals instead of percentages.


    thanks for the insight jungar, you are definitely another poster that I normally see eye to eye with and I respect your opinion. I’ll give the site another chance, probably even start posting there but overall (other than the Pierre groundhogs day stuff) I really like the format of this blog. I wonder how many people post both here and there?


    max, to answer your question, YES, that’s all i got…

    im not going to get into a debate with you about JP’s play and his contributions to the team…i know you’ll enjoy it because you can go digging for bundles and bundles of stats to prove your point….and like i said before, stats dont lie, so you’re probably right anyways….and i know you’re itching to do that….But, Why give you another excuse to do so anyways?….especially since you seem to do it on the fly anyways, so if you feel the need to post more stats, do it, it’s a free country πŸ™‚

    and, just for the record, i’ve never been a huge JP fan, nor have i really analyzed his play before i came onto this blog and witnessed firsthand what people call “groundhog day”.

    Like any other player, JP has his faults and weaknesses, just like anyone else on our team, but he’s producing results right now on the field, and that’s all I care about. If he was on a 0-22 streak like BONDS, or began the season playing like Julio Lugo for the red sox, then i might have a problem with him playing everyday until he corrects the problem and bounces back, but fortunately, that’s not the case and he’s on a nice hitting streak, so hopefully he, like all our other beloved dodger’s can continue peaking into october.

    Finally, the pure hate that JP and other select Dodgers get bombarded with gets has really has opened my eyes to a few things, and i’m sure glad i can enjoy watching the games without worrying about how much the guy makes per year, what his walk/strikeout ratio is opposed to left handed sidearmed batters, and every other obscure anti-JP fact you can find….really, who cares?

    because at the end of the day, it’s the play on the field that counts, and not your armchair, beer guzzling, micro-managing of the game/lineup that affects our win-loss record and I sure am enjoying what i’m seeing from our boys in blue right now!!!

    and i agree with charris above, i enjoy the format of this blog, because all the posts are in one spot, instead of separate threads like other forums…i do wish we had a block/ignore feature though, because some of the repetitive stuff from certain posters is totally useless to me, and although i value everyone’s opinion on things, it gets to the point where your opinion doesn’t even matter to me, and i’d rather not see it…

    anyways, GO BLUE!!!!


    Hey guys a few articles of possible interest.

    A Ned Coletti review that I find pretty fair and balanced. I’d like to hear your takes.

    An article written by a guy who actually interviewed me for Soccer in 1989! Crazy huh? Great article thought on Gonzo and what he means to the team.

    And finally for some of you Billingslley doubters. Be patient.

    First 22 ML starts

    (select RHP’s)

    ERA (as starter)

    Oswalt 2.88

    Verlander 3.05

    Zambrano 3.41

    Bills 3.54

    Halladay 4.01

    Cain 4.11

    Lackey 4.23

    Peavy 4.39

    Bonderman 5.37

    Quality Starts

    Oswalt 16

    Verlander 15

    Halladay 13

    Peavy 13

    Bonderman 13

    Zambrano 12

    Cain 11

    Lackey 10

    Bills 8


    hey jungar…..thanks for the link to the ned article…it was a pretty cool read! πŸ™‚


    that article seems to give him credit for Kershaw, Martin, Broxton and so on…uh last i checked he wasn’t here when we drafted martin and broxton and Logan White runs the scouting…Logan White is a HUGE part why this team is successful. HUGE! Without Logan White this team would be no where near what it is.


    It was Ned’s job to decide to keep Logan White. And yes this team would not be where it is without Logan White.


    Interesting article on Colletti. Seems to me that his biggest dollar deals (Schmidt and Nomar) are rated as a “D”, and that may be an overly kind assessment. As far as the prospects are concerned, I believe the credit really belongs to Logan White. A big part of our success this season (Penny and Lowe) has nothing to do with Colletti. The only reason I wish Colletti continued tenure with the team is because that would mean that the Dodgers are continuing to perform well and will make an appearance in the World Series in the next couple of years. The man with the best baseball sense in our organization I believe is Logan White, and when the time is right, I hope that Logan will have a chance to be our GM.


    Just read the Colletti article. Pretty interesting. There were a few names in there that I haven’t thought of for a very long time (which is a nice way of saying I completely forgot about them). The Cubs giving us Maddux plus $2 million for Izturis (who is now reunited with Tracy) was a remarkable deal; so was Ethier for Meltdown Bradley. I think Ned is doing a fine job and I don’t buy any of the trade rumors that speak of trading Loney, Kemp, Bills, Ethier, etc. Not going to happen. Especially for guys like Jermaine Dye, Contreras, Proctor.

    Anyway, a nice response by baseballsavvy to Bill Plaschke’s piece on Nomar can be found here


    yea, Jungar, thanks from me as well. It was a very interesting read, and id say a pretty right on assesment. I dont think you can say Schmidt signing a D as being overly kind, bc the fact that it was only 3 years makes it a good deal right off the bat, and who knows what will happen next year and the year after? He could surprise us and come back as a solid #3 guy. And the only bad part about the Nomar signing was the two years, but it was a deal breaker apparantly but thats how it goes… There is no way Colletti could have just let him walk after his performance for us last year and coupled with Drew just completely going back on his word. It wasnt a terrible signing– the terrible part is Nomars performance on the year.


    ******— i was really really hoping bonds was done forever. There would be no greater example of natural justice in the world than if Bonds stalled 5 shy of the record…. I can still hope though. I hope he at least breaks the record away from AT&T so he gets booed… Im pretty sure he will not be hitting many homeruns in that large park, but will rely more on the away games in windy, cracker jack ball parks like Wrigley…


    agreed..logan white should be given a lot of credit for the work he’s done…i think he’s recognized as one of the best, and deservedly so…

    as far as NED, i think we should give him credit for not trading away the likes of broxton, martin, etc..and getting rid of the other guys who were no real use like ayber (has anyone found him yet?), guzman, etc….so in that respect, NED has done a good job in analyzing the talent that was in the system when he arrived and picking and choosing who our trade pieces would be…hopefully he can continue making the right call and giving up pieces that won’t help us, and keeping the loney/broxtons/kemps/martins of the world πŸ™‚


    Casino – i have your back on this one all the way. I understand your views on the stats and stuff and how they dont show us what happens in game situations (where one play can change the outcome of a game). I too get sick and tired of all the bashing but i do understand that this is a blog and i know it will happen, although i must admit, yesterday was no where near the bashing of old and i credit that to Jungar and Max for toning it down and being civil. I know they are fans and they just have different views and opinions, just like i do and anyone else on this blog does. Ohhh and by the way casino, i hope you got the e-mail that fansince53 sent you.

    Max – Now you know i am always down to share my opinion, but i have certainly never said you were not a fan and i haven’t seen anyone else say that about you (at least not recently and i could just be missing something). But i truly believe you are fan of this team i just wish you were not so harsh and critical everyday, i can see if it were everyday but in the last 10 games there has not been much to complain about. And of course that is just me expressing my opinion and in no way telling you how to be a fan! Also when you said this i had to laugh a little and im not sharing this because i want to argue but if you can dish it out you should be able to take it as well:

    is that all you got casino? i was expecting you to tell me how much im not a fan? Im rather dissapointed. I woke up this morning waiting for you to tell me how much i care about the team.

    Of course God forbid you try and make a decent argument against those facts but whatever. I’ll just continue not to be a fan.

    Posted by: | July 19, 2007 11:27 AM

    I contest your “facts” all the time and get nothing back as a response. It could be that you just overlook my responses or something like that but i feel if you are contesting others with this similar situation you should be able to respond back to mine as well. I know as well as anyone else nothing will be solved in one posting because for one we all have opinions and no-ones are exactly the same, and second i just dont see any reasoning why we should make this blog a boring place, the arguements get exciting its the name calling and the put downs about people we dont even know is what bothers me the most! (not saying thats its only you max)

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