Today's lineup

Sorry I was M.I.A. over the weekend. Seems to have worked out without me yesterday. Here’s the lineup for today, with a little bit of a rest for Russell.

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Nomar, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzalez, LF

Betemit, 3B

Ethier, RF

Lieberthal, C

Wolf, P

82 Comments

I can certainly understand the need to give Russell Martin a rest, but I am REAL uncomfortable with Betemit in the line-up, especially with Brandon Webb on the hill for the Snakes. Come on Wilson – shake that funk off of you bat!

GO DODGERS!

I’m hoping for the best…but since we’ve done fine with his “power” we should just go with speed and play Valdez. We’ve been pushing our luck, but we already have one pitcher’s spot in the line-up!

well with batting betemit 6th, he is pretty much a do or die sitution now, I think his whining about being 8th was a bunch of **** but being put in front of either, he better put something up today or he is going to either be traded or forced back down into the minors. I know he has no options but do we really think anyone would be willing to try and pick him up?

Webb is much less effective VS lefties, I like the Betemit move.
It’s got to be near sink or swimm time for him anyhow. Besides, he has the same OBP as Pierre.

Just play Betemit. Others get the benefit of the doubt, I don’t get why he dosen’t. He had 18HR’s last year in less than 400 plate apperances. He hit .305 (to lead all rookies in 05) and .281 in 06 as a brave. He has made no errors this offseason. If we just leave him alone can’t he do this or pretty close to this for alot less money?

.270 .327 .455 .782

(beltre’s career avgs)

.262 .330 .417 .747

(wilsons-career avgs)

BRING UP LONEY!!!!!!!!!

I know he has no options but do we really think anyone would be willing to try and pick him up?

Not to say he is nearly as good but that’s the kind of thing the twins said about David Ortiz after he hit

.234/.324/.475/.799

and then went on to go..

.288/.369/.592/.961

.301/.380/.603/.983

.300/.397/.604/1.001

.287/.413/.636/1.049

.297/.402/.615/1.017

“I know he has no options but do we really think anyone would be willing to try and pick him [Betemit] up?”

Many teams are desperate at 3B. Betemit is a slightly above-average hitter for his young career, with power potential (the aforementioned 18 HRs last year) and doesn’t make a ton of errors at third. Yup, someone would claim him.

thats still 100 points more than he has currently, .133, and 12 strikeouts in only 45 abs, the guy is on the verge of losing all confidence by the dodgers, i think he only has another week or two tops

crnoda – Betemit could also be on the verge of getting his numbers back to normal (regressing to the mean), which could mean an imminent hot streak. He did hit a double off the wall in his last start.

Exactly, David Wright has 0HR and 6 RBI for the Mets. If he was a dodger he would be about a week away from being released, two tops…

other young struggling 3b heading into the weekend (first number is age-thanks Toy CANNON)

Kouzmanoff

25/125/183/214/398

Encarnacion

24/182/250/197/447

Betemit,Wilson

26/136/309/182/491

Inge,Brandon

29/134/216/284/500

Gordon,Alex

23/159/237/290/527

Marte,Andy

23/179/200/333/533

Crede,Joe

29/221/268/312580

Zimmerman,Ryan

22/245/290/351/641

Wright,David

24/263/356/329/685

So my take in general is that we need to give him a few weeks and then if he cant pull out of his slump make a trade since apperantly Nomar cant play 3b without getting hurt. loney at 1b with kent, nomar and furcal would be legit. A championship team should not have settle for Wilson Valdez at third base.

AMEN to that. Crede could be on the block at the trade deadline b/c his contract is up soon. I’d trade for him in a second if the price was right, and hes far far better than Betemit.

jason–the problem with the idea of “just play Betemit” is that there are too many other good options within the organization.

I support the Loney option–move Nomar to Third and give Loney a chance at First. If that does not work out (and I think it will), in a year’s time, there may be a LaRoche option, or an Abreu option. The Valdez option is OK, but I think strictly short-term. I like Wilson Valdez, but I don’t see him playing a big role in our future–or even staying as hot as he is now.

Another option is going outside of the organization, and taking some combination of Betemit, Hendrickson, Tomko, Brazobahn, and Clark and getting some really big Third Basemen. I don’t know who that would be (Rolen, Ramirez, and Chipper Jones are the only ones I like enough to displace a kid, and they are not on the block), and I really don’t like the idea of putting some of our prospects into such a deal (I avoided listing them, because of this, but you can figure out that others might go). I think it is best to see if we have the guys already in our organization before we do this–unless some silly good offer comes knocking. And I might be inclined to just play Betemit over this option for this year, because other good options may be coming.

But the Dodgers have a very good team this year and should be in contention not just to win the West, but the Pennant and a World Championship. But that needs a top-to-bottom solid team, and right now, Betemit is a hole in the line-up. Magic can make up for that sometimes–Jeff Hamilton played 3B for the 1988 Dodgers–but the better situation is a solid player. It’s not worth sacrificing the next 10 years, but we have better options available right now.

Everyone should take a look at Ken Gurnick’s mailbag, which deals with this topic.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070429&content_id=1937198&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

Other than the fact that he parrots what we keep hearing about what “management” appears to think (no one in management has gone on record with that, and no one has even said who in the management thinks this, or if there is any disagreement) that Nomar will get hurt (I know he’s had problems, but he’s not a china doll), he does address the big problem, which is we have to find a way to explore another option without losing Betemit. crnoda said that no one would pick him up on waivers, but I think that he has too much potential for someone to not pick him up and give him a whirl. I have to think that if any of the position players (excluding catchers) got hurt, we would see Loney given the chance. If not, I think that we have to risk losing Wilson Valdez (a 29 year-old journeyman rookie is much less likely to be scooped up). Really, I think that this is the toughest move from an organizational standpoint, because we risk losing someone that we may want to have around. But it’s time to make the move.

Meanwhile, has anyone noticed that Luis Gonzales is in a slump, even with the HR yesterday? Since his offense peaked against the Bucs, his numbers that last two series:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K AVG OBP SLG OPS

21 2 3 1 0 1 1 3 4 .143 .250 .333 .583

He needs a rest, though maybe not tonight.

I still think some patience with Betemit will pay off in the long haul. The situation needs to come to a head, it’s true, but I would not give him away quite yet. I’d have him bat left handed and put him in there for a month and see what we’ve got.

Dodgers best team 2007

Furcal SS

martin C

Nomar 3b

Kent 2b

Ethier RF

Kemp LF

Loney 1b

Pierre CF

Pitcher

(Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf, Billingsley

leekfink – not to say it can’t possibly happen, but Nomar has not been seen in the vicinity of third base except while running the basepaths. There is little evidence to suggest the Nomar at 3rd is anywhere on Grady/Ned’s radar. Now, if Nomar were to suggest it privately to management….

jungar,

Yea, reading that line up is pretty exciting. I think you take that and mix in Logo who is still a pretty good hitter-really (and maybe if he plays 120-130 games he is even more productive, at 39). We’d put up some great run totals.

i read that Webb’s been walking allot of batters i’m sure the Dodgers know that & will be patient at the plate.

Regarding today’s lineup after that 17-inning marathon… I like that Russell is getting a breather, but I think Nomar & Kent should get a day off as well… or at least take them out after 3 or 4 AB’s.

You guys need to be patient with Betemit. He’s got great power potential, as his 18 HR’s in 373 AB’s show. Hopefully, he’ll get it together offensively. Also, you guys are funny. You’re dogging Betemit, but you want Kemp to play. Kemp & Betemit are similar to each other – both have power & potential and both struggled offensively. Their potential is probably the reason why management wants both on the roster.

Between Loney & Kemp, I like Loney better. I think he has the most upswing & a more immediate one. However, I do think the first call-up should be Abreu, not Loney. Loney isn’t putting up numbers like before. It could be a result of trying to learn the OF, due to him pouting, or he could simply be cooling off. I don’t know, but Abreu, on the other hand, is tearing it up.

Remember that it’s still early in the season. Some guys are going to struggle, some are going to be red hot, some will be at their averages. The team may go on a winning streak, a losing streak, or be up & down. I don’t think it’s time yet to panic. We’re in 1st place at the moment. I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts because it’s the end of September where our position really counts.

Hey drj884, I’m from the Bay Area as well. I’m in San Jose, so I know what it’s like being surrounded by Giants fans & Bonds brown-nosers. My co-workers placed a broom next to my desk after we got swept. I hate that feeling. The only thing that I ask is that the Dodgers beat the Giants everytime they play.

Should be a good game tonight. I just hope that Wolf doesn’t put us in a hole early on….

GO DODGERS!!!

I’d give Betemit a shot still. He’s gonna improve and get hot, that just averages. After all, Furcal and Kent hit under the Mendoza line in April last year, and then there was Derek Jeter’s April 2004 (.168/.255/.232).

Anyone can get hot (Marlon Anderson last September) or cold, but they’ll spend most of their time at good ol’ 98.6, and that’s the performance you’ll wanna check.

I notice Vinny’s not on the telecast tonight… is he okay???

sward,

Yea, but the sweep up here was awesome!!!

I tihnk were going to get the last laugh….

Josh, can you tell us why Vin is not on the Broadcast. Steiner and Lyons have not mentioned anything.

There you Pierre, 1 pitch out. Nice.

Oh yeah, their making Webb work tonight. Took all of 8 pitches for him to get out of the 1st inning.

At this rate he can pitch 17 innings himself.

Yes, we don’t show much plate discipline. It would be different is somebody connected on an early pitch, but that just doesn’t happen. I too would bring up Abreu and play him at third if Betemit doesn’t start hitting very soon. I figure, as long as we are in first place, Grady figures he doesn’t have to make any of those decisions. Anyway, I’d like to see Abreu up here soon.

Wolf won’t make it out of the 5th inning the way he’s running the pitch count up.

And the way the bullpen was used last night in the 17 inning affair it looks like Tomko will have to come in to relieve Wolf.

Just when we needed 7 or 8 innings out of a starter too. **** Wolf might not get out of the 2nd or 3rd inning.

They don’t do that Oakland thing.

Does anyone know what happened to Vin Scully?

No announcement on the telecast-KFWB is fielding lots of calls but they don’t know..and the Fan Forum doesn’t either?

My mom’s worried, she can’t remember the last home game he missed…Does any one have any info?

they said he had the day off. He’s hopefully just tired from the 17 inning extravaganza yesterday.

Thanks-even Ch 7 didn’t know.

Although it would be nice if

Steiner/Lyons would mention that he’s got the day off.

Thanks for letting us know!

Not to worry. Vin had a personal issue he had to deal with, but there’s no cause for concern. He actually doesn’t do the home games whenever we’re on Fox Saturday or ESPN Sunday games, so it hasn’t been that long since he missed a home game. But, Charley and Steve have shifted over for tonight on TV and Rick is handling radio solo this evening. Thanks for everyone’s concern.

Josh–obviously, I wouldn’t dare question if Vin needs a day off–espescially after yesterday’s marathon–but we miss him. Also, although I know he does not do the games when we’re on Big Fox and ESPN, I wish he would still do the radio. I turn off the sound and listen to the Radio (Rick and Charley though), but would rather get Vinny (nothing personal to Rick and Charley, of course).

Also, I noticed that Rick is going solo on the radio tonight. Will he be teamed with another broadcaster throughout the season as he has been for the last two years? If so, who?

Wilson Betemit and Los Angeles are proving just not to be that great of a fit.
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In everyone’s fantasy world Betemit is a 25-26 year old with insane power potential.

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In reality, he is a 29-31 year old who is at the downside of his prime. those 18 HRs last year is the best he’ll ever do. he’s done.

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Instead, rotate wilson valdez, tony abreu, and if

he starts picking it up the next couple of weeks, andy laroche at 3B until someone earns it.

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or better yet.. trade juan pierre (don’t care that he’s been tearing it up lately), wilson betemit, and Gonzo for Jeff Reboulet and a sack of potatoes.

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Then trade Reboulet for a player to be named later and have the sack of potatoes play third.

well, this would have been a great night to have a 12th man on the staff, instead of burning up Beimel again, inflating Tomko’s era, etc. But since the dodgers insist on dancing around the 3b issue, they are keeping 2 utility players and a offensively challenged betemit on the roster. Somethings gotta give…if nothing other than at some point we need a 12 man staff.

After a marathon in which the hitters didn’t bother to show up for a game and then some, it is understandable that there was no energy today. Instead of playing like a team with first place to loose the team phoned in a token performance.

Hopefully the batteries will be off of empty tomorrow! I was at the stadium and the lack of energy on the field soon had the crowd listless, too. On a packed day, too – that stadium could have rocked if given half a reason. Instead, a leadoff HR for the wrong team pretty much set the tone.

A season is not lost on one game, though, so up and at them! We may want this game back come September, but for now, the season is long.

Oh yeah, and Betemit at third is not working out that well. Maybe he’s older than he said ;-) and he’s just a wash.

And oh yeah, Pierre took a stupid route to a ball again. Aiyiyiyiyiyi.

hey guys, just a heads up about why Kemp may not playing in the major’s just yet, and why they are being careful with him, in my opinion. Using the ESPN Batter vs Pitcher stat sheet, i found 132 of Kemps 168 AB’s (some pitchers he’s faced probably demoted or retired or released, I believe they only show players currently on a teams 25 man roster) Here is what i found;

against players with 4 years or less exp.

H….AB..HR..RBI..BB….SO….AVG

19…52..1….7…..2…..18…. .365

pretty good against the youngsters…but

against players with 5 years or more exp.

H….AB…HR…RBI..BB…SO….AVG

19..80…..4…..12….5….30….. .238

a little more trouble against the more experienced pitcher. 11 more SO’s than Hits is not so good. same amount of hits in 28 more ab’s against the seniors. yes the power is better, but the consistency is not. i think the older players know where the holes in his swing are and are taking advantage, the younger players are probably just throwing their best pitches and seeing who wins. maybe i’m wrong, but just thought i’d throw it out there. and maybe those 36 AB’s i couldn’t find would change the story.

If they don’t want to move Nomar or Kent to 3rd, they can bring up Abreu ,release Valdez and keep Betemit on the bench. Do we really need both Valdez and Martinez?

im starting to doubt this team will be better then last years.

I agree, Max. The starting pitching staff instead of being top of the league is downright mediocre. The relief corps, aside from Seanez, I believe is a real strong point and likely to continue so. It is hard to be productive when Raffy and Betemit just are not hitting. I would like to try Pierre in the leadoff position with Martin at No. 2 and dropping Raffy toward the end of the lineup until he gets his stroke back. I’m sure he will, but in the meantime his leadoff performance is killing us. I don’t see how we could do worse at 3rd base by bringing up Abreu. I think he could pleasantly surprise management. He could also provide Kent with occasional relief from day to day play. If Kemp can keep up his productivity at AAA and rejoins our club, I would give him some playing time in lieu of Gonzo. I think Gonzo will be tailing off, and I would have thought that signing him for one year was intended to support a young guy like Kemp rather than to replace him. There was a good reason that the D’Backs didn’t keep him for the season. He’s not going to bring anybody to the championship at this point in his career, great as he may be in the clubhouse. I would hope that Colletti is working on any kind of a trade for Seanez, Valdez, Clark, Anderson, and maybe even Tomko. Bills should be back as a starter, even if it takes him back to AAA to reposition himself for a month or so.

I’m not doubting this team at all, 15 wins is a very solid month and that’s without Furcal hitting like himself. Not to mention how underwhelming Betemit has been so far. Plus the defensive miscues. But, you can’t get down when they lose 6 of 8, because it happens to every team. We faced a Cy Young pitcher right after a 17 inning marathon that drained not just the pitching, but the entire team. Also it didn’t help Wolf was inefficient, but nonetheless this team hasn’t come close to playing their best baseball and we still won 15 games in April. Things may be down in the short term, but things are about to get very very good soon enough. Just have patience…

i really feel the Dodgers have to address patients an more selectivity on the plate specially with our top of the order guys.

Im with Alex, were going to be ok. I can’t really say anyone is playing much ABOVE expectations at this point- maybe the bullpen levels off a little, but some of our really key players are not on track yet. So if anything- things should get better. No contribution from Schmidt yet (I think we will get some in the second half, but hopes are not REAL high), Furcal and Lowe (along with Martin) were 2 of our better players last year and neither has done a thing yet, but they will…. Not to mention the mess at 3B…. We will be just fine. The team is very very deep and it’s a long year.

Not a question of doubting. The team overall has performed extremely well under the circumstances. Just listing a few people that need to be replaced for us to have a successful year and do well in the post regular season. Now should be the time for management to make some of these decisions instead of riding along, now that April is over.

im not saying the team won’t be good. We could easily make the playoffs. I just think we aren’t going to be better then last years team.

If you are going to argue how could we can be if people would start hitting then how about how good the D’backs can be when they get randy johnson back or if chris young starts to hit more consistently for them.

The fact is that we are going to get sub par offense from our outfielders and sub par defense from them as well. JD Drew was a big lose and Ned made a huge mistake in signing Pierre when he could have easily signed Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton to a one year deal. Im not worried about the pitching. The bullpen will be lights out when its not over worked which could easily happen.

We would be a better team with Kemp/Loney platooning in left and anyone besides wilson betemit at third.

-50 million for Pierre who cant catch or throw.

-47 million for Schmidt who can’t throw fast anymore

-8 million for Gonzo who can’t throw

-20 million for Nomar who cant be moved to 3b cause he cant throw.

loney 300k

kemp 300k

billingsley 300k

lofton or roberts 5 million

so instead of spending 130 million on old veteran junk and blocking paths we could have spent less than 10 million on 4 players and then went out and offered a 100 million dollar contract (free agent or trade) and got a superstar in his prime. Or just kept the money for Andrew Jones this offseason. Most would argue they prefer to have Nomar to Loney for example and for 2007 I might agree but for the future of our team I cant stand what NED is doing. Even if we barley make the playoffs or barely win the division. We should expect more.

Its the beginning of May. Our record last year was 12-13. This year is 15-11, not a huge difference. Last year, Martin, Ethier, and Broxton were all up around now and turned things around, or at least made things better. I think they Dodgers should shake things up a little, but I’m sure they won’t b/c they have too many people in entrenched positons, unlike last year.

we started 12-2 in 2005…

I think pitcing will be fine, even though Im counting on nothing from Schmidt. We have huge depth in starting pitching and relief. The offense is what needs a jolt. They’re playing dead right now. It will be interesting to see how we do against the Braves this week and whether we can hold our own or not.

yeah im just pointing out I don’t think we are any better than last year and might be worse unless things shake up a little offesively.

Laughable.
A little loosing streak brings out the dooms dayers, nay sayers and Ned bashers.

No one in the NL is even close to a perfect team. We have holes? sure. So does everyone. This team should be just fine- regular season AND playoffs.

Hey old_fogey_la:

“not to say it can’t possibly happen, but Nomar has not been seen in the vicinity of third base except while running the basepaths.”

As you may or may not know, I arrive early for every home game and watch the tail end of the Dodgers taking BP. Almost every day, Nomar is at shortstop fielding BP grounders. I know that this means absolutely nothing, but it does suggest that he wants to stay sharp on the left side of the infield. Just an observation of mine.

I apologize to those of you asking for patience with Betemit, but I am absolutely done with him. It has been a month now and there is absolutely zero improvement. He is our “Designated Out” and comes to the plate looking (and hoping) for a walk. He needs to be shipped out to Las Vegas until he gets his swing back. With his very poor offense, I do not believe that we would lose him off waivers. Just my opinion.

GO DODGERS!

I was completely un aware that Nomar has arm problems…. that seems to be why everyone says hes not at 3rd. That’s news to me. Anyone know anything about that?

mmmm when i saw “Nomar at short during BP” i just freaked out thinking how amazing it would be to have Furcal at third. He’s got the arm and the speed to play deep enough that our shortstop (nomar) wouldn’t have to have normal range. This will never happen.

Anyone besides Betemit. He has had so many chances to prove himself. He got moved up into the lineup cuz he “wasn’t getting any good pitches to hit from the 8th spot” yet Ethier seems to be getting his hits when he bats 8th. Betemit needs to be gone now.

I love the fact we paid Juan Pierre all that money because of his speed and defense. He can’t catch and throw and sure he has 12 steals but none of them are in the 7th inning or later when they would really mean something. Plus he can’t even bunt it seems. Pierre is so overrated just because of his speed its not even funny.

management seems to be mezmerized by Betemit’s 18 homers last season. Ned, you’re kidding yourself if you think that this feat will ever be duplicated. Why do you think that Atlanta let him go in exchange for Aybar and Baez? It’s time to let go now! Give Nomar a shot at 3rd and rest him from time to time in favor of the utility guys. We need Loney and Kemp up in the bigs to give this team a shot in the arm. Otherwise, this team is destined for mediocrity on offense.

fansince53,

Thanks for the information. I can never get to the Stadium in time to catch Dodgers BP, and the big question mark is whether Nomar is ready to go. Since he’s taking balls at SS, he’s ready. A day taking infield at 3B would be enough (Nomar would probably do a little more, but it’s not re-learning–he’s ready as soon as Grady and Ned pull the trigger).

I was going to, jokingly, respond to old_fogey_la by saying that even though Nomar has not been seen in the vicinity of third base except while running the basepaths, Betemit has not seen the vicinity of First Base, except when taking the field during road games. But Nomar is ready.

Anyway, I want the move, but there is no need to panic. Someone put up that we’re only 2 1/2 games better this April than we were last April. I will take 2 1/2 games each month–that’s 15 games better for the year–or a record of 103-59.

We have a couple of things that we need to do (3B being the biggest problem), but we’re on track.

Pierre and Lofton are really the same player except Pierre is a little better. SO, if lofton is making 5-6 mil this year and Pierre is making 8, what is the big deal? Length of contract? I guess people dont ever make trades anymore in this league.. Who would our better option be in CF? obviously no one this year, and next year? A. Jones? of course that would mean the dodgers would have to engage in, and win, a huge spending battle, not to mention Andruw’s expressed desire to return to ATL. It’s not perfect, but its not all that bad either– he is hitting better than Lofton and has scored 10 more runs. I get it- Pierre is far from perfect and his defense has been especially disappointing, but lets all admit its 6 or one half dozen, and stop whining about the same old stuff…

woah woah woah…Pierre better then Lofton. Lofton is a borderline all of famer while pierre is an overpaid bench player playing everyday.

Lofton has better career averages and last year had a better BA, OBP and stolen base percentage. Again Pierre’s speed and 200 hits are making him appear to be good when in reality he really isn’t all that great. 200 hits is great thing to have but not when you great 600 outs.

create* not great.

Last seasons out totals:
Furcal: 458 outs

Lofton: 328 outs

Nomar; 327 outs

Kent: 288 outs in 115 games

Drew: 354 outs

Betemit: 275 outs

Ethier: 274 outs

Martin: 298 outs

Pierre: 495 outs with 699 AB’s

Now when you inflate everybody’s AB’s to 699: Here’s the # of outs:

Furcal: 490 outs

Lofton: 489 outs

Nomar: 487 outs

Kent: 494 outs

Drew: 501 outs

Betemit: 515 outs

Ethier: 484 outs

Martin: 502 outs

Pierre: Stays at 495 outs

Take with that what you will, I’m just pointing out that obviously when you bat 700 times in a season you’re gonna get out alot. It’s an overblown statistic which is almost as ridiculous as saying Nomar got out 69% of the time last year, which is also true. The average baseball player makes out over 70% of their big league careers, it’s what they do. I’m not arguing with anybody I’m just stating facts.

I went to the game last night…and all I have to say is…

OUCH! OUCH! I found out not only do I Bleed Blue, I cry Blue too.

Sighhh.

I was just referring to stats so far this year– with Lofton at his age and at the end of his career.

All time MLB out leader:

Pete Rose

messagebear,
I don’t know where you get off calling the pitching staff mediocre. They’re ranked 4th in ERA in all of baseball. Without Schmidt, without Brazoban, and with Bills struggling to adjust to the role. 3.43 team ERA behind the Mets, A’s, and Red Sox.

Not too bad. And I think they’re going to get better, not worse.

Get used to “without Schmidt”…

File this under “uh oh” on the rumor mill… from Fox Sports:

“The Dodgers are worried that Jason Schmidt might not pitch again this season, according to a major league source. Schmidt, who signed a three-year contract for $47 million, has a bad shoulder and could be shutdown for surgery soon. Schmidt is 1-2 with a 7.36era this season in three starts.”

Yeah… Colletti and Conte knew this guy really well… almost too well I’d say.

The Giants have infiltrated the Dodgers I say!! There are spies among us!! : )

What else could it possibly be?? : )

Now those are some real numbers to compare there Alex!I’m glad you sat down and worked them up because I’m sick of the whole JP whining thing.

As for lastnights game it was what I figured it would be completly lackluster from Very tired Players. Is Tomko going back to the Bullpen and Bills gonna make a start? With Tomko putting in a couple and Bills Tabbed unavailible and the only bullpen arm tabbed as such I have to think a move is being made.I have to think that there is gonna be some movement from AAA this week with Abreu or Loney getting the nod.

Here is a really far fetched idea and 1 that could fix 2 problems.Move JP to 3rd and put Kemp in Center with Betemit just going anywhere but here.I know he has a weak arm but 3rd to 1st is alot shorter then cf to the plate.Just a random thought….

Go Blue 2007!!!

fisher,
JP can’t judge a ball off the bat from 200 feet away. I don’t think he’s going to get a lot better from 95 feet away…

you can see 200 feet better then 95? gee I can’t…..

the reaction time has to be more than 50% faster. he doesn’t react well.

smart *** :P

see not everyone has 699 ABs and it’s not cause he hits at the top of the order, its cause he dosent walk.

And please on Pete Rose. Like someone said, don’t even compare Pierre to lofton, let alone Rose.

Juan Pierres career OBP is .349 (His job as a table setter right? to get ON BASE. I mean who cares about hit totals)

In 25 seasons Pete Rose OBP was .379 (in pitching eras mind you) and he was less than .349 4 times, all of which were past his 20th full season.

Alex the numbers you put up were for individual outs made. Pierre made 599 outs last year. That includes the number of times he had gotten someone else out in his AB be it a double play or a fielders choice.

If everyone hits 700 times a year of course they are going to make 400-500 individual outs a year after all baseball is the only sport where you are considered great if you dont fail 30% of the time.

OK Max,

Then could you enlightin us for the other players listed as to the numbers they would have posted for 699ab’s and while you are at it also the Dodger players who have played 162 games in a year and of those who that have how many did it several times and the number of total outs they made? Thanks…….

Go Blue 2007!!!

it has nothing to do with AB’s…Pedro Feliz made more outs then Pierre last year and he didnt have 699 AB’s…Its the fact that Pierre doesn’t walk and doesn’t strike out. The fact that he has little power and that a majority of the balls he buts in play are on the ground are what causes home to create outs.

Thas why i said that year he had one of the least productive 200 hit season in history.

Give Juan Pierre a break. He’s not as bad an outfielder as you guys say he is. Yes, he has struggled at times to judge the ball off of the bat, but I think he might still be getting used to playing at Dodgers stadium & the other NL West stadiums. It happens when going to a new team & division.

Besides, his career fielding stats are quite good, so just like how he struggled offensively & is now turning it around, I think he’ll do the same with his fielding. He only has 2 errors after all… along with Ethier, Kent, & Nomar, while Furcal has 3, and Russell Martin has 4. (Errors by the team as a whole is one of my concerns.)

Last year, Pierre only ground into 10 double plays. This year only 1 GIDP. He’s on pace to have 193 hits, 131 runs, and 75 stolen bases. I’ve heard that he’s a really hard-worker & has a great attitude. I don’t see where he’s really hurting the team.

I still think this team can be very potent. Once the starting pitching gets on track & the hitters start hitting like their capable of (including Betemit), look out.

FYI, for some perspective, here are April averages for a few sluggers: Albert Pujols – .250, Manny Ramirez – .202, and Ryan Howard – .219.

We can still win the series. We need Penny to be his dominating self tonight.

GO DODGERS!!!

Max_power,

How can you say that Pierre “had one of the least productive 200 hit season in history”? His stats are comparable to Ichiro’s. It’s the guys batting behind them that will determine their productivity. Pierre & Ichiro at least are giving their teams a chance to score runs by getting on base & stealing bags.

GO DODGERS!!!

wow…now Pierre is being compared to Ichiro. The comparisons in this thread are hilarious.

Last year.

Ichiro – .322/.370/.416

Pierre – .290/.330/ .388

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