A busy day…
Yesterday was obviously quite busy for us, with the Nomar deal coming to a close and all of the reports about Juan Pierre. Before I get into him, I’m happy to report that the Dodger family will have some new members this year, as Nomar and Mia are expecting twins and Jason Repko got married over the weekend (Nomar and Mia were actually there, as were the Tomkos). I talked to Jason the day before the wedding and he was really excited (though admittedly nervous). I have to say that you’d be hard pressed to find a more genuine guy in the Major Leagues and I’m very happy for him and Traci.
As for Pierre, while it seems opinion on the blog is split on him, I’ve got tons of people from around the league telling me (unsolicited) what an incredible guy he is and from my perspective, I hope that we’re able to finalize this thing. A few things I’ve noticed in researching him:
– Led the National League in hits last season with 204 and has finished in the Top 3 in that category while topping the 200-hit plateau in four of the last five seasons. Since 2001, he has registered 1,182 hits, the second-most in baseball behind Seattle’s Ichiro Suzuki.
– Has finished first or second in the National League in stolen bases in each of the past six seasons, including a career-high 65 steals in 2003. His 318 thefts since 2001 lead all Major Leaguers and his 325 career swipes rank seventh among all active players.
– Last year, set a career high with 32 doubles and matched his career best with 13 triples for the second consecutive season. Pierre did not commit an error in 384 total chances in center field.
– Has paced the NL in games for the past four seasons, as he has played in 497 consecutive games dating back to 2002, the second-longest streak in the Major Leagues behind Miguel Tejada (918). Over those four seasons, Pierre has also been the hardest player in the league to strike out each year and is the leader in that category among active players, fanning just once every 16.5 at-bats.
– One of the top bunters in the game, Pierre has ranked second in the Majors in bunt hits in each of the past four seasons after leading all of baseball in that category in 2001 and 2002. Since 2001, he has logged 135 bunt hits, 50 more than Alex Sanchez, who ranks second during that period. Pierre also has 72 sacrifice bunts during that span, the second-most in the Major Leagues behind Omar Vizquel.
And here are a few quotes I found from people online:
His baseball coach at the University of South Alabama, Steve Kittrell, recalled an incident about Pierre’s continual desire to work at his game.
"We were in Starkville, Mississippi for a game, and I was letting the guys sleep in one morning because we didn’t play until three o’clock in the afternoon. I went out to get some coffee at 6:30 a.m. When I got back around seven, there was Juan, standing outside his room and swinging a bat. Just dry swinging," Kittrell said. "He was the hardest-working player I ever had at South Alabama.”
Third base coach Rich Donnelly, back when he was with the Rockies, said this:
"He puts 62 bunts in play and beats out like 28," Donnelly said of Pierre. "That’s 28 hits on your average. This guy is a nonstop worker. In 22 years in the big leagues, I’ve never seen anybody work as hard as he does."
Those are some pretty bold statements who have seen a lot of guys come and go during their time. As a person who values hard work above just about any other quality, I’m pretty impressed by the things I’m hearing about Pierre.
I think Pierre is a great player and got a bad rap in Chicago. I just can’t believe that he’s what $9 million gets you in baseball these days. I mean, Big Papi will be making less than Juan! It’s craziness…
Atta boy Ned.
Thank you for putting my mind at ease with this excellent post. His work ethic will go right along with Nomar’s. 😀
Keep ’em coming Ned!
Josh, there is no need to sugar coat this move, it is horrible from every aspect. There is no justice for handing out $45 mil to a top of the order guy. FYI, pierre is horrible in the #2 hole. I think Ned cunsulted with old pal Kevin Malone before making this move.
I hope Pierre fails his physichal!
Nice- we should definitely lead the league in bunts. Not as cool as Home Runs, but hey-it’s a start. Plus at 9M/ year that’s only about $320K per bunt single. Awesome.
At least one bullet point should mention that Pierre ranked 130th in the majors in OBP last year of 160 qualifiers. Losing Drew’s .393 OBP with power and adding 700 pa’s of Pierre’s .330 with no power will cost us dozens of runs vs. last year. At this point a big bat in LF is our only hope of a top 10 NL offense- sad given our resources.
Drew leaves $11 mil a year and can’t play everyday and we get JP for $9 mil a year and he plays hard everyday and wants to be a Dodger. A win win situation if I ever heard of one. !!
Go Ned !!
Go Dodgers !!
Oh stop with all the negative attitudes. Pierre is a serious upgrade from K-Lo, to say the least. Plenty of time (and money I hope) left for upgrades elsewhere.
Drew and his fragile body blow. We need style and effort on this club. I think Pierre brings that with him.
He reminds me of Chone Figgins.
The Cubs were last in the NL in OBP and 15th in runs. The Dodgers led the league in OBP and finished 4th in runs- 100 more than the Cubs. Style and effort don’t put runs on the board people.
Congratulations to Nomar and Mia on the twins as well as the contract!! Congratulations to Jason Repko as well!!
See my blog for the reasons keeping Nomar was a great idea (a blog that was meant to be posted before Nomar signed with anybody). park.mlblogs.com
I’ll be okay with the Pierre signing as long as they GET A POWER HITTER. Trade for one or sign somebody with 30-40 HR power. 20 homers is not a power hitter. I can be happy with Pierre if they resign Maddux, sign Zito and trade Kemp and a young pitcher for a proven POWER HITTER.
I do think that Pierre will be a great signing…How many times will we hear Vin say “a rabbit is loose this year.”
Ned, let’s go get the power guy now and some pitching…Can we say Dunn and Schmidt please?
Take a look at my new blog for Dodger news and notes posted every day, even in the offseason at http://www.dodgerjunkie.com
John, great blog.
First of all, congrats to Jason, Traci, Nomar, & Mia!
Good job to Ned & the front office on landing Pierre (hope it’s not to early to say that). Prices are going up on free agents and that’s just the business of the game evolving.
I think he’ll be a great addition to the team. Obviously, this team is not blessed with Power but that’s ok. We performed great last year – coming in tied for 2nd in the NL was a great accomplishment.
Sorry to Kenny, because I respect him immensely as a ball player and he has earned a spot in the HOF, that’s for sure, but Pierre is a GREAT upgrade over him.
before this ‘signing’, I was quite down on Pierre…..figured he was no better than Lofton or Roberts.
However, I think we’ll be happy with his 200 hits and 100+ runs. I will like the reduction in strikeouts….
If Kent can come back strong, he’s good for 25-30 HR. Then we just want Nomar, Either, Betemit, Loney, Furcal, and Martin to hit 20+ HR each.
I am sorry, but I do not see any way how this is a good signing. Mr.Colletti said that Juan gets on base an awful lot. Can someone tell him that an on-base percentage of 330. is not good at all. Juan Pierre is a player that is dependant on speed. That is his game. Is it not reasonable to expect him to lose some speed when he enters his 30’s? Juan has no power and relies a lot of doubles and especially triples, well guess what stadium suppressed the most triples last year? And also suppresses doubles? Juan obviously lacks power as one can tell from his slugging percentage that does not usually even reach 400. Obviously, his isolated power and patience are not good either.
Hold for suspense…Dodger Stadium. But hey he steals bases. Sure he does steal a lot of bases, the problem is he gets caught so often that it basically makes his stealing a detriment to the team. He stole at a 66% clip last year (and I am rounding up). A player needs to steal at a 75% clip to make it worthwhile, which is why I liked it when Dave Roberts stole (I would have also liked it if we signed Dave instead of Juan, in a shorter deal).
Then comes Mr. Pierre’s defense. He has speed so he can get to balls, but of course that will eventually go away. The problem is even though he may get to a ball of the wall very quickly, he will not be able to reach the cut off man, because his arm is terrible. That is just a fact. We saw the problems it caused last year with Kenny Lofton in CF.
I am sure Juan is a nice guy and he should be commended for that, but we have to build a team on not just hopefully good people, but good baseball players. Ned made an extremely smart move last year when he signed a very good player in Furcal to a short year deal, but with a lot of money. Most of the time it is the years and not the money that is the biggest problem with contracts. Next year’s free agent class consists of CF’s like Vernon Wells and Andruw Jones, two players who are not likely to re-sign with their teams. Yes, they would cost a whole lot more, but they would also bring us a lot more, especially the power we need. Even if we did not sign a stop gap player like Lofton or Roberts this year we could have platooned Repko and Kemp and probably gotten near or better production for a fraction of the cost.
Sorry, but this is not a good signing.
Is Pierre really that much better than a combo of Kemp/Repko in center? Those 200 hits that he gets are offset by the outs he makes because he won’t walk (he lead the league in outs made last year). Save that money for Andruw Jones/Vernon Wells for next year.
wow, how knew Mia was pregnant, she sure hid it really well
Who cares if a guy steals 58 bases when he is thrown out 20 times? I’d much rather have a guy like Roberts who stole 49 bases and was caught just 6 times. Not to mention the fact that his OBP was 30 points higher AND he will get less money. This is just an awful, awful signing…
Juan Pierre stole at a 74.4% clip last year. Rafael Furcal stole at a 74% clip last year. Get your facts straight. Sure, Dave Roberts was 89.1% but don’t go making **** up just because you don’t like the guy. Ned made the decision, and I think he’s got something up his sleeve. Don’t be such a fairweather fan.
Me? I’m looking forward to ’07 baseball. I just wanna see the Dodgers be Dodgers. We’re not the Yankees, we’re not the Red Sox, we’re not the Mets (statement of the obvious, I know), we’re Dodgers and we play ball differently. Look up the stats from our last WS season. In 1988, we had 2 guys with 20+ HR. Kirk Gibson hit 25 and Mike Marshall(whom we all love so much, blah) hit 20. I don’t think anyone else even managed to hit 10. You wanna get back to glory of ’88? Get pitching and play some small ball.
In two weeks, Ned’s gonna make some giant trade and you’ll all go “so that’s why he signed JP.” Have some freakin’ faith!
No one made more outs than Juan Pierre did over the last two years. It’s just not a wise use of $45 million dollars.
I am sure there is a plan. Two years ago Detroit signed Pudge. Everyone wondered why. last year Magglio, again questioned. This year Sheffield. All built around some of their own, especially pitching. Takes time. I know Pierre is part of a plan. When the big bopper arrives at the plate, he will often see Pierre and Furcal on base.
Speaking of big boppers, dualtone must know something. He mentions a giant trade. Could that be a signing of Schmidt? We need HR’s according to most posts, so let’s sign the best. Barry Bonds is available. Sign him to a one year contract, get the HR record as a Dodger and go into the hallowed hall as a Dodger. Would get those walks Pierre doesn’t. There were rumors on SI that Bonds has secretly wanted to be a Dodger for quite some time now. We like guys who want to be Dodgers, so why not Barry?
Bonds and Kent protecting each other again.
One would expect Pierre to make a lot of outs. He plays every game and leads off. He probably has the most or close to the most AB’s. Having said that, it would help if he walked more. The way the game is now that is what he can command in a contract, whether we like it or not, which I don’t. However, I think he is part of a bigger plan. He is a piece of the puzzle, not the last piece. Go Dodgers!!
I will renounce the sport of baseball if Bonds dons the Dodger Blue. He is my mortal enemy, my darth vadar, my skeletor, my one true nemesis. Colletti knows better than that.
euhlman. i don’t know, it would be beyond weird to see bonds in dodger blue. but hey, if we can get a slugger for a year without mortgaging the farm, that almost makes it worthwhile. i’m sure kent would be thrilled.
as for a big deal, you wonder if ethier’s end-of-year attitude has made dodger brass question his makeup and made him expendable. would certainly be useful in bringing in a guy like adam dunn.
ha ha. bonds-pierre-dunn. that could add up to be some bad defense, but sure does solve the power problem. raises OBP and SLUGGING. sign another groundball pitcher and we’re in good shape. given the days off bonds and nomar would need, it would open a spot for loney to play a good number of games at 1b and OF.
I could never cheer for Barry as a Dodger (shivering at the thought)
— or move nomar to 3rd and give loney 1b full time.
that’s a seriously upgraded lineup and not at a terrible price (except the mental anguish of bonds in blue)
Shivering? I’m dry heaving as we speak.
I think Willy Mo Pena is available from the Red Sox. Young with power, affortable. 26 HR’s in Cinny a couple of years ago. .301 ave. with Sox this year. No place to play when drew comes on board.
Justin Morneau, a Canadian, MVP in AL. Good for Justin.
“No one made more outs than Juan Pierre did over the last two years. It’s just not a wise use of $45 million dollars.”
someone should tell him that taking a walk every now & again is good for the TEAM because of his speed/wheels
alot of people in NY were crying about him winning it
You are right interpol. I’m betting Raffy will bat behind him and will get the message across to him. Pierre obviously puts the ball in play since he doesn’t strike out much. So, hopefully he will become more selective or raise his average.
ARE WE REALLY EVEN TALKING ABOUT BONDS IN BLUE?!?! If he steps foot in the home locker room of Dodger Stadium, Coletti should be forced to spend the rest of his life tied to a chair watching reruns of “The Simple Life”
I know interpol. That’s a shame. Morneau probably a controversial selection but I am OK with it.
What about Pat Burrell? We would probably only need to spend $7-9 million for two years on him and only have to give up one or two low-mid level prospects (of the DeWitt or Hu variety rather than the Elbert, Kemp, or Kershaw variety).
Why not Jonathan. We’ve had Strawberry, Davis, Hundley, Samuel, Brown, Bradley, Drew, etc. Why not Bonds?
Pat Burrell reminds me of JD. – attitude and body.Very streaky I like Willy Mo, Thames, Munroe. Maybe Aubrey Huff.
Because Bonds = Satan. Bonds is in a whole other category than even Bradley or any of those other guys. Plus, why upset your clubhouse (Kent vs. Bonds in a daily cage match) for a year. At any rate it is moot since Coletti is already on record as saying that Bonds is not an option (LA Times).
You guys do remember that Barry and Jeff Kent almost killed each other when they were in SF, right? I too will give up on this sport and this team if that idiot comes to LA. I think he should be kicked out of the game. Look at his stats, those alone show that he did steroids.
I would love to see a Schmidt signing coupled with the announcement that we have somehow traded for Pena, Burrell, or Rolen.
Think Walt Jockety wouldn’t love for Coletti to call with an offer of Betemit and Penny for Rolen with no money exchanging hands? If we can get Schmidt and Mulder/Lily/Meche, that would be quite the coup.
“…There were rumors on SI that Bonds has secretly wanted to be a Dodger for quite some time now…”
Man, you got me good with that one Harold. Could it be that Bonds secretly wanted to become a Dodger because of all of the “Love” that we (myself included) have given him from the Left Field Pavilion all these years? LOL Man, it got nasty out there!
Come on Harold, any Dodger fan worth his salt would NEVER invite Barry Bonds into our family, so I KNOW that you are pulling our leg, right?
Although I must admit, what better way to stick it to Giants fans than to shove their beloved Barry Bonds in their own faces? That alone might be worth the cost of signing him……………………………..NOT!
GO DODGERS! (without Bonds).
PS: I still say that Bonds ends up in Oakland as their DH next season.
Hi 53. Gotcha. Wrote to Gary earlier and said we lacked some humor on the blog yesterday re: Pierre signing. Told him I would try to encourage some today. Got a few really good bites. You are right. There was no SI article. Also right, Bonds would be on my last guy in the world list to sign. Just having a little fun. A bit cold in Nova Scotia tonight – down around freezing. However, am serious about Willy Mo Pena and your guy Thames. Think we need some younger guys on the way up, not already there, as there is only one way to go from there. Like players in 24-30 year old range to add to the roster. Go Ned!! Go Dodgers!! Go Barry to Oakland.
53. Tried to stir the pot a bit too with Morneau, a Canadian boy,as AL MVP. Not much reaction to that but the Barry chatter was fun.
Justin Morneau winning the AL MVP is awesome! This kid quietly put up phenomenal numbers without all the B.S. hype that Jeter got. The thought of Yankee fans crying and whining about Jeter not getting the award is PRICELESS! I HATE the Yankees!
I still think that Thames and Willie Mo are doable for the Dodgers, but it will cost us some of the kids. As I said earlier, Ned isn’t finished yet.
PS: Good Gotcha Harold.
PPS: Did I mention that I HATE the Yankees?
You know 53 – Canadians are taking over pro sports – Joe Thornton MVP NHL, Steve Nash NBA, Justin Morneau AL. Yes, I recall you mentioning you were not in love with the Yankees. Go Dodgers – Let’s have a MVP soon. Russell Martin perhaps.
I would include Nomar right up there with Russell Martin as a viable NL MVP candidate next season. In spite of his injury history, I look for Nomar to have a career season with the Dodgers in 07. He loves it here!
I also look for James Loney to make a strong run for the 2007 NL Rookie of the Year title, as well.
Berriod Bonds in Dodger Blue is disgusting.
I cant believe its in this thread.
If we need Bonds to win, ill take loosing, thank you very much.
See what you’ve started Harold! LOL. Here’s the re-cap:
1) I will renounce the sport of baseball if Bonds dons the Dodger Blue. He is my mortal enemy, my darth vadar, my skeletor, my one true nemesis. (nkirby4)
2) It would be beyond weird to see bonds in dodger blue. (stringtest)
3) I could never cheer for Barry as a Dodger (shivering at the thought) (kevblewis)
4) that’s a seriously upgraded lineup and not at a terrible price (except the mental anguish of bonds in blue) (stringtest)
5) Shivering? I’m dry heaving as we speak. (nkirby4)
6) ARE WE REALLY EVEN TALKING ABOUT BONDS IN BLUE?!?! If he steps foot in the home locker room of Dodger Stadium, Coletti should be forced to spend the rest of his life tied to a chair watching reruns of “The Simple Life” (jonathandavidmorse)
7) Because Bonds = Satan. (jonathandavidmorse)
8) I too will give up on this sport and this team if that idiot comes to LA. (dualtone428).
9) Berriod Bonds in Dodger Blue is disgusting. I cant believe its in this thread. (drj884@)
Some funny stuff right there.
Right again 53. Nomar might be right there with Furcal and Pierre hitting in front of him. As for Loney, I really hope he is still a Dodger and gets to play regularly. With his soft hands and gap power, I liken him to Mark Grace. It would be great if Nomar could play third, give LaRoche another year of preparation after his injury, and allow Loney to play fulltime first. But, Nomar probably is physically more able to play first. However, expect Betemit to be ggod at 3B and Nomar 1B. Loney OF for a while. Don’t worry drj884, Ned has no interest in Bonds, and has stated so, and neither do the rest of us. Just getting the guys going a bit.
Lots of passion re: not acquiring Bonds. Funny too. Lots of creative thought there. Hope no one has night mares tonight with Bonds in Dodger Blue. A better reaction than I hoped for 53. Keep the passion guys – for all Dodgers, including Pierre. Gonna be a good year. Go Ned!! Go Dodgers!!
SI does report Sox are dangling Willy Mo Pena at Nationals for closer Chad Cordero so he is attainable.
Go Ned!! Go Dodgers!!
this blogstring is too good.
bonds in blue = nauseating.
don’t think i want a guy like pat burrell with the comments that came out of philly regarding this guy. and he just seems more likely to hit .200 than .280. and only good for 20-30 HR now.
i’d rather see youth in thames or dunn, preferably dunn. he’s a leftie, younger than thames, and takes a lot of walks. i know he K’s a lot, but man can he crush that ball.
Has anyone heard from Ray since the Fall League in Arizona? I am concerned he may have been hospitalized again. His last update on his blog was on November 13. I was looking forward to his response to Barry Bonds in Dodger Blue.
email@example.com – You are close to getting kicked out of the Dodger fan club!
I will personally walk up to the front office and return my season tickets if they signed Bonds. I wouldn’t even ask for my money back.
Heck, I might even move up to San Fran and become a Giants fan.
… I think Tommy would quit too.
wordbooty – please check my 3:24P.M. post and fansince53 post at 3:15P.M. Hang on to your season tickets. Don’t think they are in jeopardy.
Pierre’s slugging of .388 was the 10th worst in the NL last season. His on-base percentage of .330 was 15th worst in the league. Among NL CF, he ranked 2nd worst in slugging and OBP. Despite having 740 PAs, he only walked 32 times. Exclude the eight times he has been hit by a pitch, his OBP is an ugly .323.
Hitting is very volatile, especially for a player like Pierre. If 10-15 batted balls don’t go his way in a given year, his value is all but gone. For example, last season, Pierre had 204 hits in 699 at-bats for a batting average of .292, which is certainly respectable. If he loses just 15 hits because a batted ball that dropped last year is instead caught, or he loses half a step, or if Dodger Stadium takes hits away like it generally does, he drops down to a very unimpressive .270 and his OBP is a pathetic .309. With zero plate discipline, he NEEDS to get 200 hits to have any value. Relying on getting 200 hits when you A) can’t drive the ball and B) need speed to do it (and Pierre turning 30 next season makes it likely he’ll start losing a step) is a very dangerous gamble.
Pierre had 58 steals and was caught 20 times, for a 74% success rate. Statistical research has shown that unless you are at a 75% success rate, you are better off not stealing at all. In 2006, according to Baseball Prospectus, with a runner on 1st with no outs, a team could expect to score .92 runs. With a runner on 2nd and no outs, it goes to 1.14, giving a team a potential net gain of .22 runs. However, if the runner is thrown out, the team can expect to score .30 runs, a potential net loss of .62 runs. As you can see, unless a player had a very good success rate, stealing a base isn’t worth the risk. Pierre barely fell short of the threshold needed to make stolen bases a worthwhile venture. Think of it this way: Pierre made 20 outs trying to take an extra base last year. If a player gets thrown out 20 times a year trying to turn a single into a double, it can’t help but have an adverse effect on a team’s offense. The risk just isn’t worth the reward.
On top of all this, defensively, Pierre is a pie-thrower and doesn’t put his great speed to good use when patrolling centerfield.
So when you hear all the Pierre talking points within the next couple days (he’s a veteran presence in the lineup, his speed is very disruptive and along with Furcal, can allow them to be more aggressive, he had 200 hits last year, he covers a lot of ground in center, he’ll be a great presence in the locker room, he can help the younger outfielders), find a shovel.
Great criteria for handing a guy 45 mil:
Great clubhouse guy
Works to improve
Attacks the ball
Why doesn’t Ned just give Joe McEwing $30 mil while he’s at it?
I have seen Adam Dunn hit a baseball farther than any man (except for Frank Howard, Dave Parker, and Mike Schmidt), but I have also seen him strike out more often than not. In 2006, he struck out 194 times in 561 at bats (35%). He hit .234 in 2006 and has a career batting average of .245.
Now that being said, his 40 home runs in 2005 AND 2006 and his 101 RBI’s in 2005 and 92 RBI’s in 2006 are some HUGE numbers and make him a VERY attractive power hitter.
Adam Dunn (and Barry Zito) came within inches of becoming Dodgers two years ago, but that was when Paul DePodesta (the Dodger antichrist) traded away Paul LoDuca, Guillermo Mota, and Juan Encarnacion for Brad Penny, thus squashing all hopes of signing Dunn and Zito.
As risky as it might be to sign Adam Dunn, I wouldn’t mind seeing it happen – but I’m afraid that it would cost us dearly in cash and prospects.
I hear what you are saying sangabrielad, but you are overlooking one very important factor – that being the team that Pierre played for last season, the lowly Cubs.
As you well know, the Dodgers are historically a very aggressive hit and run (and run and hit) team. This most certainly favors a guy with good wheels like Juan Pierre.
I believe that, with the right coaching (say, like Maury Wills and Eddie Murray), Pierre will only get better.
I don’t imagine that there is anything that I nor anyone else can say that will change your opinion of Juan Pierre, but I seriously believe that you will be very pleasantly surprised with him by this time next year.
Ok, time for me to say something:
1) The time to get Barry Bonds was 17 years ago, back when he was skinny and useful. Dodger Blues reminds us:
“The Pirates were shopping Bonds in the winter of ’89. Rumors swirled of a Jeff Hamilton and John Wetteland for Barry Bonds trade.”
At this point, there is no point in getting him, and Colletti has said he’s not interested.
2) Juan Pierre will not spell the end of the world, but if negotians fell apart and the Dodgers resorted to Jason Repko in center field, they would be a better team as a result. The most positive thing about this is that Colletti believes that Ethier, Betemit, and Martin have potential for more production. James Loney is a mystery as far as his production goes, and I know the plan is to put him at the bottom of the lineup to take pressure off, and because he managed 9 RBI in a game from the 8 hole.
3) Juan Pierre is not really a bad player, but he is not what the Dodgers need right now. I have no doubt that he has excellent character and work ethic traits. I doubt that he’s going to just start to walk a whole lot once he gets to LA either, though, because he’s been in the league for a little while now. Given the situation though, I can take a lineup of
Give Loney plenty of PT, don’t give up on Kemp, and all will be good.
4) Congratulations to Jason Repko on his recent marriage, and to Nomar on the twins. Nice to hear happy news.
5) But back to the matter at hand, Ned Colletti fails to inspire confidence in me, and several others I’m sure. I will say that his assertion that Betemit, Ethier and Martin will be more productive gave me more confidence in him, but I find it difficult to take the man seriously when he makes statements like “Juan Pierre gets on base and awful lot.” Or trades for pitching – he’s been consistently terrible there.
I will not leave with that, though, but rather offer constructive criticism: acknowledge the other argument and explain yourself. It could be that Colletti wanted an agressive player in the lineup to add variety to what is otherwise a very patient lineup – even Nomar this year to some degree. Maybe discuss weaknesses in the statistics. Honestly, this is a good standard for anyone in an argument really, because then the argument becomes more academic and feelings won’t get hurt.
Regardless of whether we wanted Pierre, we’re all Dodger fans, and we’ll be rooting for him next year (except for that troll guy who’s as fixed on Depo’s firing as Plaschke is on the LoDuca trade).
Pats… I agree totally with everything you point out. Jon Weisman’s forum points out the many reasons why Juan Pierre is a bad idea. I myself can think of 45 million reasons why this is a horrible trade for the Dodgers, but more importantly, he’s getting the club financially espoused to a mediocre player for FIVE full seasons. The club already has these types of players available from within and at a much lower cost. Repko already had hit a few home runs and was batting over .300 when he was injured trying to play Spider Man on the center field wall. Jayson Werth, when healthy can be an impact type player in the outfield. Oh, and did I mention that both players have solid defensive ability and very strong, accurate arms? (The lone exception of course being the laser beam Repko sent into the upper portion of the backstop fence from left field in April.)
I just don’t see how this is REALLY helping the cause at all. I hope Mueller is earning his money right now and pleading with Ned to hold back on this one. Otherwise we’re committed to a bunch of money that could have been spent more wisely elsewhere.
If you have any doubts, please read the “Dodger Thoughts” forum for the best explaination as to why this Juan Pierre possibility is absolutely wrong for this club.
Don’t do it Ned!!!
Misnomer… I know the Juan Pierre thing isn’t a trade as I mentioned above. It’s a bad free agent move for the Dodgers.
I shut down my computer yesterday before I got a chance to read euhlman’s punch line. Funny? I spent the better part of last night saying the Rosary. 🙂
That was exactly the right time for Bonds note. Nice work euhlman, nice work sir.
You know, if JP learns to take a walk I think we’ll get the same stat lines from him that we got from Brett Butler. Same style of hitting – both great at bunting for singles, great with little slap shot singles, and JP’s swing looks a lot like Butler’s did. We’ll probably get a few more steals out of Pierre, though. But he’s GOT to learn to walk. Has anyone else heard a rumor about Dodgers pitching prospect for Vernon Wells? I thought we had given up on that when we signed JP, but I just heard it on the radio this morning. I know that these guys just float these things to keep things interesting sometimes, but it made me think nonetheless. Where do we put who?
Does JP go into LF w/ Wells in CF and Ethier in RF? Or does Wells go into RF w/ JP in CF and Ethier in LF?
Or maybe Furcal and Wells switch positions and we turn Loney into our starting middle linebacker with JP playing wide out. Then Hendrickson becomes our power forward and Ethier our point guard. Oh, and Jeff Kent could bat leadoff w/ Derek Lowe playing 1B. Martin would have to switch to goalkeeper, but I think we could play some wicked cricket!
Sorry, I had a long night and coffee just doesn’t help like it used to…
After some digging here’s a run down on “comparable” lead-off hitters in the NL.
J.Rollins- 277/334/478 (36 SB)
D.Roberts- 293/360/393 (49 SB)
R.Freel- 271/363/399 (37 SB)
J.Reyes- 300/354/487 (64 SB)
R. Furcal- 300/369/445 (37 SB)
J. Pierre- 292/330/388 (58 SB)
and K-Lo just for fun, after all, Pierre our replacement:
K.Lofton- 301/360/403 (32 SB)
I was happy with this trade yesterday. After sleeping on it last night and digesting these stats I’m getting a sour taste in my mouth.
Downgrade (offensively) from Lofton?
Pierre is a fine player, but he just doesn’t address our needs or improve the team from last year.
And is too expensive.
Not a good move.
Give me the Lofton/Repko platoon and $7,000,000 toward a top tier starter any day.
Or Dave Roberts for 1 year till we figure out what we have in Kemp.
Ethier in left.
Anderson to start the year, Kemp to finish in right.
Dual, I did read a bit ago that the rumor was Toronto wanted Penny and Ethier for Wells, but the Dodgers would not put Ethier on the table. Like you, I’m not sure as to how founded that was.
I could live with a Penny / Kemp trade for Wells, but absolutely not Ethier. (That ought to fire up this board).
PS: So long as we re-sign Maddux and get another starter (like Jason Schmidt), that is.
Baseball America, ESPN, SI… pretty much everyone but Santa Clause rate Kemp with significantly more upside than Ethier. More power, more speed. Better hitter. BOTH players, remember, went into the toilet in Sept- it’s called a rookie season.
I think both will be very very good anyhow.
53 I fired up the board and I was threatened with excommunication or trade for a Yankee fan last night after 54 years as a Dodger fan, so will stick to the basics today. Vernon Wells is a good one but not the end of the world. Still young and I feel he has not tapped his potential yet. Has 2007 on his present contract and then will command long term big time contract. The betting is he goes to the Angels for Santana and Shields. I certainly could live with Kemp (since Wells is proven) and Penny (if we get another pitcher) for Wells. I watch the Blue Jays all the time. Wells is a nice player with matching personality. A good team player. Excellent fielder with 30 SB potential. He would look good in Dodger Blue. Put Pierre in left field.
wells would be nice in left..pierre in center…schmidt number 2 starter behind lowe..i dont know about maddux for another year throwing batting practice.
Still like Willy Mo at bargain prices.
Wells is an Andrew Jones type of CF but would work in LF.
matt kemp will be a better player than wily mo pena there is no doubt about that….we need pitching!!!go back to the old dodgers with 5 nasty pitchers.add a hitter, and we have the NL west wrapped up.
See, I’d put Wells in RF w/ Ethier in LF (provided he doesn’t go in the trade) and JP in CF. Wells has a cannon and some good wheels, putting him in LF won’t take advantage of those two things. lohmeyet, thanks for substantiating that I wasn’t just hearing things.
Oh, and I’d send Kemp w/ Penny too, for what it’s worth. Upside potential and proven value are two completely different things.
We need production now. We need a high impact player now. Today. Not next year. Not after the all-star break. This winter Ned.
I for one would gladly give up Penny in a trade, and would part with either Kemp or Ethier to get a proven bat and consistent outfielder like Wells. Just look at Penny’s record after the All Star game – I believe we can certainly get a replacement for him, and probably an improvement if we get either Schmidt or Zito. Kemp and Ethier are still unproven, even though Ethier did well until the last month of the season, but that fall-off made me uneasy about his long term value. A proven major leaguer would be worth the swap.
Anyone know where to get Winter League Stats- too see how our boys are doing?
Zero, nada, zilch, chance the team trades Kemp. None. Fortunately.
angels signed mathews….does that mean wells is coming?angels were talking to wells too right??
Mathews to Anaheim (not LA) for 5 years, 50 Million. It would be nice to add Wells to our outfield. He come bring some of the power this line up is lacking. Sign Schmidt and Maddux and trade Penny to Toronto.
im all for trading penny but please do not re sign maddux for something ridiculous..there are some good young arms out there we should look toward.
Bring back the Straw! He’s good for 25 HRs.
Found this on CBS Sportline, written 11/7, discussing trade possibilities
Vernon Wells to the Dodgers for Brad Penny and Andre Ethier, or Penny, Matt Kemp, & another prospect
Penny, although troubled by injuries in his career, is more than capable of putting up good numbers when healthy, as shown last season. Youngsters Ethier or Kemp would immediately be placed in the outfield to replace Wells, either in left or right, with either Alex Rios or Reed Johnson shifting to center. Ethier would be preferred as he is a lefthander, but both show promise.
Again, could be simple speculation.
Isn’t he in Jail?
It’s very important to note that the article mentioned other Wells trade possiblities with teams other than the beloved Blue.
If Penny can lose 20 pounds, I think he can be healthy and dominant.
20? my girlfriend should loose 20, try 45!
And move those into IQ points and you’re onto something.
and some anger management. For Penny, not your girlfriend.
Instead of re-signing Maddux, what about signing Schmidt and Suppan? What do you guys think of that idea?
My problem with Penny is in many ways the same problem that I had with Drew. Yes, I do think with my heart a little too often, but Penny never seems as though he likes or is proud of being a Dodger. Without knowing the man and having only a distant perception of him it’s just the impression I always got.
Just read on nydailynews.com that with Glavine possibly going back to Atlanta the Mets are gunning hard for Zito. Also, that the Dodgers will be gunning hard for Schmidt. This rumor would certainly shed light on the possiblity of trading Penny.
Benny, I live in StL and got to watch Suppan day in and day out. I can’t quote it (and can find), but his record when pitching very good. The certain benefit in that is a team can somewhat avoid long losing streaks. We Dodger fans know all to well about those.
Schmidt and Suppan could be okay. My problem with Suppan is that he’s not really that reliable during the regular season. He averaged just under 6 innings/start in ’06 and has a 4+ career ERA. Postseason, however, he’s a bit better. I like Schmidt and would really like to see him in LA. I think Zito might get beat up in the NL, but I’ve been wrong about these things before. I think Ned’s SF ties are gonna land us Schmidt and his friends in Toronto are gonna send us Wells for Penny and xxxxxxx. Everyone has a different opinion on this one, so I’ll leave the speculation up to all of you.
fansincNow that being said, his 40 home runs in 2005 AND 2006 and his 101 RBI’s in 2005 and 92 RBI’s in 2006 are some HUGE numbers and make him a VERY attractive power hitter.
Here’s my take on Dunn, he’s a texan version of J.D. Drew there no fire in his belly there no competitive spirit in (IMO) & HE JUST STRIKES OUT WAAAYYY TO MUCH & HE IS NOT CLUTCH!!!
yeah, how does hit 40+ HR and not clear 100 RBI? That’s right, he’s no good in the clutch. I’d take Manny and his weirdness before I’d deal with Adam Dunn’s inconsistency.
Wow, YOUR MY HERO HAROLD !!! lol. I go away for one day and Harold goes off the deep end !! Great idea Harold !!! It took me 45 minutes just to read all the “we hate Bonds stuff” Is this how it’s going to be all Winter now that you have snow on the ground !!!lol lol !!!
I think we need to trust in Ned. He turned this team around in 2006 and saved the farm and I think he’ll do a good job this year !! Yes, we will lose one or two top prospects for the good of the team. But look what he did today !! Added 3 more pitchers to the 40 man roster !! He still believes in the system !!
Believe in Ned !!
Go Dodgers !!
I would gift wrap Penny & Eithier for Wells. Eithier hasn’t proven anything yet and Penny is an injury prone pitcher who can be good but also has not been very consistent. That said Wells would have to agree to a contract extension, not leave us at the end of the year,
Ok, I concede on the Adam Dunn thing. I vividly recall him having a shot to beat the Dodgers with a simple scoring fly ball in two consecutive games this past season and he struck out both times (Phew!). You guys are right; a dude with 40 HR’s should have considerably more than 92 RBI’s. And I was totally unaware of his Drew-like personality. We sure as **** do not need that again. My bad.
However, I will not concede Ethier to Kemp. I agree that Kemp will be a good one, but I believe that Ethier will be a great one and we desperately need his left handed bat. His ability to hit with power to any field is gold and he always seems to get a great jump on the ball off of the bat. Kemp struggled with this while he was up with the big club. Fortunately, his speed allowed him to get to most of his misjudged balls. When Ethier’s playing days are over, people are going to say “You got Ethier for Milton who?”
As for Maddux throwing batting practice, he has had 15 or more wins in 18 of his 21 seasons (including 2006). Dear God, those are epic numbers! Jason Schmidt has won more than 15 games only TWICE in his 12 seasons. Maddux would be a steal for a two year – $18 million deal (but I wouldn’t go any longer or higher than that for him).
Posted by: firstname.lastname@example.org | November 21, 2006 10:42 AM
I think you should find a new team or get an attitude adjustment. This is a great pick-up. Go Blue!
“You guys do remember that Barry and Jeff Kent almost killed each other when they were in SF, right?”
– You guys do remember that the Giants went to the 7th game of the world series that year, right?
Guess what, if the Dodgers sign Bonds, the fans won’t go anywhere, you all talk tough but you’ll buy tickets just like you do every season. You probably said the exact same thing after the strike….”I’ll never watch baseball again, blah blah blah……” whatever. The Dodgers need power and OBP, Bonds is the only affordable guy out there that can provide it on the free agent market (unless the Dodgers decide to give up good young prospects in a trade). Pierre is a more durable, less effective version of Kenny Lofton last year, not impressed with that move at all (but at least its better than giving 50 mill to Gary Mathews Jr……..sheesh)
Aw, this was an extremely good post. Taking the time and actual effort to produce a
really good article… but what can I say… I procrastinate a whole lot and never seem to get nearly anything done.