Maddux and Lugo

More on this later, but obviously we’re pretty excited to get two guys of this caliber in here. For anyone who thinks we’re not taking a shot this year, hopefully Ned has made it clear that he hasn’t given up on 2006. And, in my opinion, the best thing about this is that he didn’t have to sacrifice any of the prospects who have contributed greatly at the big league level this season.

In fact, as I type this, Greg Maddux is doing a conference call in my ear with the  media and both that call and the one with Ned should be posted online shortly so you can hear it.

53 Comments

Bottom line is that the Dodgers are a better team today than they were yesterday. All the Maddux haters need to realize that we just got a Hall of Famer for a career .260 hitter. Besides we needed to trade Izzy, he deserves better treatment than he got from the organization after getting hurt last season. Also remember Maddux will be getting 5-7 starts in pitcher freindly Dodger Stadium over the next 2 months. If he wins those games that could be the difference in the division. Also, if we do manage to make the playoffs, you’ll all be glad he’s pitching for us instead of against us.
The Lugo deal is a little confusing to me but it does give us more depth. All of you know that we have had our fair shair of injuries this season. Could it be that Kent’s injury is more serious than we are being told? Only time will tell how good Guzman will but when you get the chance to pick up a proven Major League hitter for two guys who have’nt proven anything, you make the deal. Unfortunately, we are’nt going to be able to hold on to all of our prospects. Besides you have to have a mixture of pressure tested veterans and young players to contend year in and year out.

Finally, I have to agree with most of the Steiner comments. However he’s not alone. Lyons is just as bad and both of them together is enough to make your ears bleed! They both spend to much time “homing” for the Dodgers. They certainly do not fall into the category with Scully, Doggett, Porter, Drysdale and Monday. Personally , I think the team should bring back Ross. I know that sometimes his broadcasts were a little to “stat driven” but as a true baseball fan I enjoyed his approach.

Bottom Line –
Izturis = 26yrs old

Maddux= 40 yrs old (Either this year or next is his LAST)

And I thought this team had such a bright FUTURE w/ all the prospects. What good will Maddux does us then????

Ned is High… And I am 1 very angry Dodger Fan.

longtime dodgers/braves fan, i was ECSTATIC about Maddux joining the team…until i read who we gave up…it seems the Dodgers are heck-bent on getting rid of all the Dodgers-Angels brothers teams! (Weavers, Izturises, Aybars)

dunno much about Lugo, and i guess like with all the other players we let go in the past (LoDucca, Beltré, Green) we get upset to see our players go, then there is nothing more we can do but keep supporting our team…is this also when Cesar Izturis goes to his new team and hits 20 homeruns for the last part of the season…?!? i hope not!

*cvd*

Josh, let’s not try to sugar coat this. Maddux is washed up. Sure he’s a future Hall of Famer, but he’s closer to a 6 ERA than 5 ERA since April and getting hit like crazy.

Seo has a better shot of putting up decent numbers the last two months of the season than Maddux does.

Throughout Maddux’s career he has been a better pitcher in the second half. Not only that but he gets out of a hitter’s park like Wrigley (sure Atlanta has a launching pad too) and comes to a pitcher’s park. I like the Maddux trade. Ned is making a push for 2006 without giving up the future. Let’s be real. Izturis has nowhere to play in our lineup and Guzman was not fitting into our plans so we might as well get something for them. I don’t mind having Maddux be a coach and an experienced veteran in our rotation. This is a guy that will lead the rotation. He might be able to help Lowe focus and cool off Penny.

As far as Lugo is concerned: I know we need offense but I’m not sure that he’s the guy to do it for us…just seems like another Furcal, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

I think Ned is doing a good job. He’s quick to fill in the holes. He doesn’t sit on his hands and he’s giving us a shot at winning. Not only that, but the kids that we are most high on (Ethier, Kemp, Martin, Billingsly, Broxton, Young, etc) are still with us.

Lugo will do a solid job for you – he’s been hitting brilliantly recently. And from what I hear, he’s a great player to have about in the clubhouse.

I’ve got to ask you all though – do you have any players left in you minor league system, or do the Rays have them all yet?!

John

http://englandrays.mlblogs.com/

I personally love both deals, Guzman may pan out in time but in Tampa Bay it won’t matter. Lugo is a spitfire that now holds the team lead in HR’s! He hits the ball for average and has pop in the bat as well as he can steal bases. He’s by far a better offensive upgrade over Izturis. Defensively obviously he’s no Izzy, but not many are. Maddux coming to Dodger Stadium seems like a nice match and he should do well here. Penny, Lowe, Maddux! Um, be happy people! Lugo in the 7 spot over Izzy is OBVIOUSLY BETTER! I think we did a great job! Please don’t compare Maddux to Seo EVER lol. Betemit, Maddux and Lugo for Aybar, Baez, Guzman and Izzy. I can live with that . Our future is WELL in tact. Maddux was set to start August 3rd so we’ll see where Little starts him this week! Baseball is a business and Izzy had to go. Lugo in his spot is a good business decision and one that makes this team better.

I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out for the rest of the season, so I’ll try not to pre-judge. I’m skeptical about the value of the Maddux trade. Based on his record with the Cubs I’m not sure that he can do much better than Sele, Hendrickson, Billingsley, or Lowe, who hasn’t shown much over the last month. Doubtful whether he’s destined to be with us after the rest of this year. I hope he can really prove something and do a job for us. Actually I’m more optimistic about Lugo, since he has been a .300 hitter, so I’m really balancing that against Izzy’s batting, which has not been all that impressive. I wish Lugo had more than just a few months with us, but if he does the job and fits in with the team, maybe it will be a basis for doing a longer term contract with him for the next year or two. I personally wish that Kent did not have his contract extension, because I foresee his downward slide continuing, and it’s unlikely that our management would let Kent go. At least we did not give away any of our “Untouchable” prospects, at least in my mind. Right now we just need to have a good road trip, and who knows. I’m pulling for the team whatever the changes.

Seems to me we got 2 rental players in these trades. a 40 year old with a 4 plus e.r.a and a losing record, so what if his name is Maddux. Maybe 3 years ago this would have been a good trade, not now. Most of you say Izturis can’t hit so lose him. But consider his year last year, then he got hurt. Out of the lineup for half the year, so of course he’s not hitting. Looked to me like he was about to come around though. And we wouldn’t have had to make the trade for Lugo if we hadn’t lost Izzie. Thankfully that trade may work out. actually they both might, if Maddux pitches like he did to win 300 plus wins and Lugo continues to hit. Then if we can resign them.

I can not believe all the love Izzy is getting. 20 home runs…please! He’ll be lucky if he hits that many the rest of his career let alone the rest of the season. Maddux will help us down the stretch. the alternative was to let the Padres get him. If nothing else Ned didn’t let that happen.

As for the prospects, lets get one thing straight the minor leagues is NOT the big leagues. I don’t care if a guy hits .400 with 50 homers in AA or AAA (anybody remember Greg Brock?)thats not helping the Dodgers win ball games this year. We kept Ethier, Martin, Kemp, Billingsley and LaRoche. Those guys are the Dodgers top prospects and they’re all still in the organization after this weeks deals.

We are possibly a better team right now than we were. Will we be a better after the season ends? I’m hoping Maddux has something left after his poor showing in Chicago this year. This might be his last year. However pleased Izzy can now play SS. Lugo is an upgrade offensively but I hate that he has Scott Boras as his agent and wants $10M a year for 3-4 years. I dread that Ned will give him a big contract at the end of the season and don’t understand the plan with Betemit, Furcal, Lugo and Kent. If Lugo is not signed than it means Pedroza and Guzman are gone for nothing and if he is signed it will be another huge contract and they are often more risky that waiting on prospects to mature. Patriotacts, I see Delwyn Young perhaps moving up the OF list but not second base with so many high priced guys on board now. – Kent, Furcal, Lugo. My guess is he will be traded as eight other kids have been this year. I expect LaRoche is at risk now also. I think it was necessary to make some changes and do like that none of the kids on the big team were moved. All in all I think Ned has flown under the radar as ESPN commentators suggested today and tried to quietly build for this stretch run. I don’t think today’s moves have long term benefits.

Key Phrase – “No Long Term Benefits”

You are absoultley right. And isn’t it ironic that we are supposed to be mainly concerned w/ the long term. W/all the prospects and so forth.

I don’t mind the Maddux trade, I think it will help. Izzy was expendable. He’s not a third baseman and Kent has another year on his deal (what was the hurry to get that extension done?????). It’s tough to say goodbye to Izzy, I wish things would have worked out better for him in L.A.

I’m very surprised with the Lugo trade. I hate giving up top notch prospects like Guzman for a player we are going to have for 2 months; I doubt we’ll sign him beyond this season. I know the organization has been down on Guzman and was not pleased with his attitude after he was sent down to Vegas earlier this season but I still hate to quit on prospect with All-Star potential.

I guess we need to be optimistic and hope we turn it around and win this division because certainly no team in the west is going to run away with it.

can anyone tell me how it works when a team is awarded a compensatory draft pick for losing a free agent? what are the restrictions?

so in essence, even if we do lose maddux and lugo after the season, at least we’ll have some HOF leadership and coaching for our pitchers and possibly a draft pick.

it’d be sweet if maddux could just replace honeycutt as pitching coach when his career ends!

I think I saw it earlier, but let me re-iterate that our now team leader for homers and 2nd in steals is Mr. Lugo. My question is where will he play when Kent and Nomar return, perhaps a rotation to keep everyone fresh, namely Nomar and Jeff. For those of you upset about the Maddox trade, you need to take a a closer look at our rotation. A guy like Billingsly will get much more info from Greg than Honeycutt could ever share. The tantrums Penny likes to throw, everyone is scared to say something to him, I bet my 87′ Pinto, Greg would have a little bit to say. Maybe not in an aggresive way, but in a teacher way. Bottomline, we just got a hall of fame, experienced, top of the rotation guy. We needed a SP, when u look at our other options we would have given up more than Cesar and Guzman. Besides, we haven’t had a pitching coach all year, now we do. Farewell and goodluck to all our former Dodgers, namely Cesar and Willie. I’m sure they will do well in their new homes, it hurts to see homegrown products leave us. Go Dodgers, let’s kick some Cincy aaaaaaaasssssssss!!!!!

I’m fine with the Maddux trade…..even if it is short term. Izturis wasn’t going to offer us much now or in the future with Furcal and Betemit around. I’m very confused about the addition of Lugo?? He is a good player, but how does he fit into this team? I can’t see him being the difference maker in the playoffs, and his is free after this year. Please, Josh, tell us if there is something wrong with Kent….that is the only way this trade makes sense.

I think Kent will be okay, Ned is just adding some insurance(Lugo) in case someone else goes down. I thing I’ve noticed with Ned, when he trades our guys, he always put them in a good situation, kudos for that. Hopefully Guzman get’s it together, right now he reminds me of Billy Ashley. Some D-Rays fan in here asked if we had any prospects left or does TB have them all. Well we could still field a team from our farm that could roll with your D-Rays, but I do wish we would stop trading for guys from the same losing organization. By the way, how’s Seo working out for ya?? Nice going Ned for keeping our “young” nucleus intact.

This just in…Honeycutt has been fired and replaced by pitcher/pithing coach Greg Maddox.

Why is everyone so upset and worrying about where Lugo will fit in? I LOVE having 5 infielders!!!! If anyone really thinks Kent and Nomar are going to play every day in August and September…. umm well, have you been watching? This is great. Also, remember Kent can play 1B, so having 5 infileders for 4 spots the last 2 months will easily work its self out. Best case- they are all healthy and 1 comes off the bench/rotates in. Guzman was going the wrong way in the organization- this, I think is a decent risk/reward- we probably wont sign Lugo- but will get some draft picks for him and also- why is everyone so content to wait 14 more months for a playoff team? Are we really that sure all the prospects are going to save the 2007, 2008 day? Besides, Ned kept the top guys.

Good call “Dreed” on the pitching coach aspect. I’ve been berating Honeycutt all season for what I think is good cause. A Maddux would be a great choice, unless we could get Herschiser. I would love to see Honeycutt GONE at the end of the season, even if we had nobody to replace him. Being without a pitching coach would be exactly what we’ve had all season.

Josh, we need details on just how hurt Kent and Nomar are. Can we expect them back in a week or a month or never again this season?

Next question, who is heading to the pen, Sele or Chad. I’m sure neither will be happy about coming out of the bullpen. There’s no doubt our staff will benefit from Greg’s presence, and if he wasn’t struggling as of late, he wouldn’t have come so cheaply. We should be glad we got him, he should do well in Dodgers Stadium, especially coming from Wrigley and Turner, two launching pads. Does anyone know his stats at Dodgers Stadium, I wonder how he’s fared.

Welcome to Dodgerland Mr.Maddox, now please spread your knowledge amongst our staff.

I wonder if we could package Honeycutt and Steiner and trade them for anything useful? Maybe a bag of batting practice balls or some letters to put the names back on the jerseys?

Been reading the posts and well here are my 2 cents.

1. I think one of the things to keep in mind is that the days of a homegrown 25 man roster are beyond over with. As much as we’d all like it its just not going to happen. Come November that extra spot on the 40 man roster will be valuable for some of our other prospects coming up on the rule 5 draft. Best to get something for a big push this year and not give up more and sacrifice the future.

2. Out of most and all of our “1st tier prospects” Guzman would be the most expendable since A. He can’t pitch, B. Doesn’t bat left-handed, C. has no real defensive worth exept at left or first and D. still has the high ceiling prospect title attached. I can see Guzman being a very successful DH in the American League.

3. While Lugo is having a career year it still won’t be enough to push his arbitration numbers to anything too crazy. That being said he will more than likely test free agency and give us two draft picks when we offer him arbitration. If by a chance he accepts arbitration, it’d be cheap enough to have him around for a year taking over Ramon Martinez’s role. Even the thought of a backup role would keep him from accepting arbitration

4. I think next year with an outfield of Drew, Kemp, Ethier and Repko, Infield of Loney, Kent, Furcal, Laroche, Betimet, and Russell catching we’d be pretty set and can focus most of our $$$ on pitching (Zito).

Nice post nodal especially #1. Helps me feel a bit better. I know that the day of a 25 man homegrown players is over but I firmly believe the nucleus of a team has to be homegrown and then others are brought in to fit in. The Dodgers have proven that since 1988. Your projected roster for next year has six real Dodgers on it. I include Ethier. Pitching will have two or three more. As the young guys mature, the team is a team of Ddogers and others who want to be Dodgers.
I Hope you are correct about Lugo. He is not an $8M man and too costly with other big contracts on the team – Kent, Furcal, Penny, Lowe, Nomar if signed, Odalis’ contract.

One more point I forgot to mention, Last night on the the ESPN Sunday game, Orel Hershiser brought up a good point when it comes to some of these trades. Pretty much any of these pending Free Agent dealings, the negotiations start with 2 draft picks. So whether we’d have picked up Soriano, Zito, or Lugo, the starting point in any of these would have been one top tier prospect for those two draft picks. So breaking down this trade it comes down to Lugo for Pedroza and Guzman for 2 draft picks.

I actually like what Colletti did, and I’ll try to give my reasoning and explanation.

1) Billingsley is going to stay in the rotation. He is very well-composed, and gets himself out of jams. He has been improving, and he’s been a stopper. Hendrickson should be the one out, though, because he has only had one good start as a Dodger (game score of 60, mostly has performed consistently around the 40 range). That returns the Dodgers to having two lefties in the pen. Sele, other than a couple bad blips, has been a fairly reliable starter this year, although he has a history of bad second half performance.

2) ERA is not a very good statistic. It is confounded by defense, among other things. Defensive performance can help, and with Furcal playing better since some injuries from the beginning of the season have healed (he jammed a finger, trying to steal a base, if I recall correctly), and Betemit at third, the Dodgers should be able to handle balls put into play.

As for good statistics, Maddux’s K rate is low, but his walk rate is so much lower, suggesting command of the strike zone.

3) When Colletti signed Furcal at $39 million over 3 years, you pretty much knew that Izturis would not be in LA that much longer. Someone else of course, could use him, so it will be disappointing to see him leave. But he’s a shortstop, and you have to have him at short for him to be most effective.

4) As for the future, first of all, Izturis had to be traded off to clear room in the infield for a prospect. Getting a rent-a-player will help with that process, and give more draft picks. Maddux, unless he turns into Scott Erickson, gets one more year in the rotation next year, and will probably be a decent starter. Keep in mind that we do have Elbert, Orenduff, Kuo, that will probably be ready for the show in the next couple years, and signing a big money free agent pitcher could block them. Maddux would be cheap not only on time but on draft picks. I stand by my rotation predictions from the July 26 lineup.

5) As for the prospects, the organization gave up on Guzman, likely because they did not like his attitude. The guy whose attitude they clearly like, though, is Delwyn Young, who also has the most home runs in Vegas this year. Young looked like he was blocked all around – at second and he would have to fight for the outfield – but now, he has a better shot of playing second base next year.

Kudos on the trade. I don’t feel we gave up any of our best prospects and got some decent players in return. With some run support behind him Maddux might pull a few more wins than he was doing in Chicago.

I’ve loved Izzy but he’s becoming an easy out. With Betemit, Furcal, and Lugo I feel we have a solid infield. I’m not Grady, but I’d sit Kent when he got off the DL. Lugo’s put up better numbers and shown more power. I hate to say it, Kent’s one of my faovrite players but he might be at the time in his career where he needs to come of the bench every night.

my thoughts are these, we still don’t have a power hitter,we seem to have a log jam in the infield. questions on who are starters, and who are in the bullpen. who gets released or send down tommorro. for two very good prospects, we could have added, say a relief pitcher like lamura, or alexander, and should have gotten soriano,who could play infield or outfield. why keep trading with a bad team like tampa bay, last place teams have last place players, unless you get into their best draft picks for finishing last,
what have we really got for this year, if we get into the playoffs, we still don’t stack up with the mets, st.louis, or the yanks, white sox.

I have looked at what our top propests look like now and yes we still have lots of talent. i do agree, we can not win with 25 rookies, but soo many questions are added to the too many questions we really had already.

It seems most here are in agreement, trade good. It definitely gives us something better to look forward to; after all we were in the worst slump of all time.

My question is this, what will Little do with his new arsenal? Newly acquired players as well as his newly (and soon to be) recovered DL players. Here’s mine, what’s yours?

1 SS Furcal

2 2B Lugo

3 RF Drew

4 1B Garciaparra

5 LF Ethier

6 C Martin

7 3B Betemint

8 CF Repko

9 P Hopefully will improve, otherwise, it’s all for not!

Kewl you should come up with that. Eexcllnte!

At first glance I was a bit concerned about where Lugo would fit in, once Nomar and Kent get healthy. But upon further thought, I’m sure Kent will be in there everyday and hopefully producing. There’s no way he’s going to ride the pine, he wouldn’t allow it. Personally I think if he can swing with no pain, his presence in our line-up has a ripple effect. For at least this year, Betemit will more than likely be our top utility guy. But with the rest our vets require, he should be in there every night. The guy I wanna see coming off the bench for now is K.Lo, his fresh legs could be a big bonus down the stretch, pinch hitting or running. Repko and Andre should be in everyday, with Drew in a rotation with Ledee, Cruz, or whoever. So is Chad going to the pen or Vegas, personally I’d like to see him stay. But we have Tomko and Dessens who can go a couple innings, not sure where Chad fits in. Who would of thought he would be odd man out.

There is no mystery. Either Kent or Nomar will be out big chunks of the rest of the year. But now, that’s ok. If Kents out, Lugo fits in nicely (although so did Izzy but that’s just sour grapes). If Nomar is out, Loney plays first which is were he will be next year. If Kent is healthy and Nomar is not, Kent plays 1B and Lugo is at 2B.

I’ve never posted to this blog, but I’ve been reading the posts since the Betemit trade. I said when Ned Colleti was hired that it was the best choice and I still think that. I think his trades for Seo and (forgot the other Met they got) and Carter and Baez seemed good at the time and he really wasn’t to blame for what happened. I agree with some other postings that I think the Dodger pitching problems this year must have something to do with Honeycutt. Look at all the people they got that had good seasons last year and they stunk when they got to L.A. Hendrickson looked good on paper, but I would dump him in a second, over any of the other options. But, I must admit that I’m not sure about the Betemit trade (almost an even exchange Aybar for Betemit), but we threw in Baez who saved 41 games last year and had a respectable ERA in the AL, and we added cash to the deal?????. Now, as far as today’s trades, I agree with many that I hate to see Izturis leave, but we may have gotten something in Maddux. The Lugo trade I just don’t understand at all. He’s a good player, but there must be something going on behind the scenes or we’ll have another juggling act of what to do with who, once Kent and Nomar return. And, lastly, like one of the recent postings, all that Colleti did was potentially get us to win our division. But, realistically we have no hope of beating the Mets or Cardinals. And, if we get that lucky, to win the N.L., the Tigers, Red Sox and Yankees are just too strong. And, lastly, I think in all these trades we really didn’t satisfy the one desperate need to get a power hitter. So, in the end we gave up Izturis, Guzman, Aybar, etc. to get some rentals just so we can win a division, if we’re lucky. A bit of a gamble.

I’d Hold out for the Letters and Ross Porter Cosmow because i can’t keep the guys straight anymore. As soon as i figure them out they are traded or off to the DL.

“(forgot the other Met they got)”

Tim Hamulack

But, realistically we have no hope of beating the Mets or Cardinals. And, if we get that lucky, to win the N.L.,

News Flash if your head is stuck in the Mud D Sanchez is out for the year following a shoulder seperation from a Taxi cab accident and the Cards are on another losing Streak,Swept by the Cubs….

NL just became a bit more attainable. Singer wrote a Great article about Maddux that made alot of sence and shows where he might be as valible in the dugout and maybe even more so then on the mound. WE Have to Win on the Road and for this to work we need the Bats to Produce like they did when we were winning.Gotta get deeper in the counts and make the starters work harder get those Key hits move people along.Our infield has taken a major hit in defence and our offence has to produce. I don’t blame Penny one bit for blowing up he turns in a 2 run game and gets beat because of poor fielding and no bat production I’d Lose it too.Our Bullpen is as solid as can be right now.Everyone of our position players are capible of going Yard at anytime to any field as well as hitting for avg. most can Steal and the bench is sick with Talent.Starting pitching should be pitching from a lead now every game.Either should go to the #3 spot and win the batting title as well as Rookie of the year.Lugo to #4 Drew to #5 Martin to#6 Repko/Lofton#2 with Furcal and His Millions Need to Lead the charge.When Nomar and Kent get off vacation they can replace drew in the 5 hole on their alternate playing nights.This Team is so overstacked with players that have the tools to get the job done that its mind boggling to know that we are in last place.Go Tampa Angeles Cubs of Oakland!!!!

Look at Ethier’s stats on Yahoo sports, and you’ll see that he likes the 4 and 5 holes a lot more. Lineup prediction:

Furcal

Lugo

Drew

Ethier

Betemit

Loney

Repko

Martin

Grady likes Lofton at the top of the lineup because of his speed. With Lugo, though, he goes in #2, and Repko is preferable down in the lineup because he has more pop in his bat. The Dodgers also have enough offense that Martin will be sent back to the 8 spot in the lineup.

“The Dodgers also have enough offense that Martin will be sent back to the 8 spot in the lineup.”

I don’t care for that notion in the least. Martin’s been producing at the five/six slot since they moved him. Dude’s hitting .400 in his last ten games. Grady would be hard-pressed to move him back down the order in my humble opinion. Martin’s tough as nails and I’d keep him where he is until proven otherwise.

I’m with ya there kssparkuhl!Martin has made his case and needs protection in the lineup. He has shown alot of Speed even if he is a catcher He has pop and his avg is climbing again.Lo Duca never hit that low in the line up and Martin is faster and younger. Once upon a time the Dodgers even had a cleanup hitter who was a catcher sorta. Martin has tools and likes to use them the more that is entrusted to him the better he does.

All of this aside I followed John who posted earlier on his link that he left for the D-Rays….OMG what a Lonely place that is….Nobody responds there at all.The 51′s would get a bigger turnout and i know the Sun’s could too.The guys that we are getting from TB don’t have a clue about what they are coming to as far as pressure and media are concerned. They have no fans no ridicul no kudos they fight amongst themselves with no reprocussion from the media or fans…. I guess they are our ugly redhead stepchild farm team. Their internet media host isn’t even in the states he resides in england.But I must say he tries hard and does post in a professional manner.

Back to the Topic… Yahoo has sports? My numbers come from here and ESPN but I look at what are you doing for me Lately more so and Martin and Either are Doing Drew is starting to wake up might be Either and Martin behind him and if that is the case then no need to fix the fixed wheel,But don’t Break the fixed wheel either.While I like Repko alot I think he is still not 100% and needs to work his way back up, Loney is still getting his feet wet and martin has done great backing Either. However I see the Point and a very valuable one in batting Martin 8th to clear bases if runners are on AND the opps are willing to pitch to him with less then 2 outs.But I think he is better in a situation where there is not a lightweight hitting pitcher behind him.My reason for Lugo at #4 is simple numbers he leads his new team in Dings.Your Reasoning is always well thought out and very good and we all appeciate your thoughts Patriotacts.Keep The Streak Going! Go Blue!

I think Ned did a great job getting a proven pitcher that is going to help all the other arms out just to be around him…….I love Izzy too but there just isn’t room for all your favorites on a team…..Lugo hopefully will come in and be what we thought Furcal would be.

been following the trade stuff alot and it seems the dodgers not only got maddux and lugo but kept them from going to san diego and colorado respectively.

i too feel badly for izturis and never understood the pressing need for furcal, but who knew **** could come back so quickly from tommy john surgery?

didn’t like izzy’s attitude about not playing 3b on his rehab stint nor the four day vacation to be with his newborn – esp since he said he just wanted to play everyday .

he is a golden glover but not a leadoff hitter and maybe better suited for 7th or 8th, but i wish him well in wrigley.

still wish ned didn’t give kent an extension this spring. am quite frankly more concerned about 2007 than this year. would rather they spent the money on nomar who is younger and more versatile.

who knows maybe kent could be moved in the offseason for a team looking for a one year big bat or dh…

lookng forward to this road trip. it could may well determine the season..

and lastly – who wears #31 – penny or maddux?

side note: All MAtt Kemp is doing in AAA is hitting .410… Looking forward to him coming back in Sept.

Think about this as one trade before the season:

Dodgers Get:

- Wilson Betemit

- Mark Hendrickson

- Julio Lugo

- Toby Hall

D’Rays Get:

- Dioner Navarro

- Joel Guzman

- Edwin Jackson

- Chuck Tiffany

Braves Get:

- Danys Baez

- Willy Aybar

That is five prospects and/or young major leaguers going out the door. Now, you could make the case those guys were best used in trades, but that much young talent has a ton of value. Normally, you would expect a superstar in their absolute prime to come back in that type of deal. A ‘Buy the Jersey’ guy, like Barry Zito, is what you expect.

Instead, we get a couple months of accused wife-beater Julio Lugo, the chance to see if Betemit can become a poor man’s Adrian Beltre, a back-up catcher and a fifth starter. Not exactly getting my spine-tingling.

Meanwhile, the Dodgers are still in last place, the rotation is still a shambles beyond Penny and they just got a lot older. Maybe the D’Rays will hire Colletti as a special assistant when he is fired after finishing last again in ’08 with a gutted Farm System.

hacker,

You find a team that will trade you a Zito for all those guys and I guarantee you there are 25 + teams that will hire you as their GM. Its far from clear any of them project to be regulars, let alone stars. And you forget to mention- Betemit is young (24? 25? 26?)and maybe as good or better than any of the guys we traded. Lugo and Mddux are probably rentals

Also, why do people mention Beltre so often? By not signing him we avoided one of the biggest Free-Agent signing BUSTs in Major League history!!!!

IMO there are only 2 of these that might be a real good player not a super star but good

D’Rays Get:

- Dioner Navarro a maybe

- Joel Guzman not an infielder may learn to hit

- Edwin Jackson no way

- Chuck Tiffany ditto

Braves Get:

- Danys Baez

- Willy Aybar a maybe

gnorm44@yahoo.com

I’m not speaking for Josh, just this fans observation, but the medical staff for the Dodgers has made some question disitions at times.

Dioner Navarro is not a ‘maybe’. He is a starting major league catcher, under 25 and in his rookie contract. The only reason a guy like that is available is if the team has something better, which the Dodgers do.

Joel Guzman has a high upside and is young. Sure, he is probably a bad fit in the NL, but that is only a reason to trade him. Again, you are talking about a player with a lot of value in the market.

Willy Aybar is a young utility infielder. He has played reasonably well for a couple seasons. He still counts as a ‘prospect’.

Edwin Jackson is struggling now, but at the time of the trade he was still a tarnished pitching prospects. The last three World Series champs have gotten exactly zero starts from pitchers over 32. Young, quality pitching is the only hope to contend over time. Even a tarnished prospect has value.

Chuck Tiffany is also struggling now, but he looked like a potential star at the time of the trade. Young pitching is also notoriously hard to project. He could struggle for a couple years, then emmerge. Given the importance of young pitching, you need a lot of prospects to get the players you need.

That is five players with fairly high value going out for journeymen and rentals. Five prospects traded and no face to put on the tickets is a debacle. Worse, Lugo is almost certain to be gone by the end of the season. He is a stop-gap on a team on pace to lose 85 games. Odds are Lugo adds a win, or maybe two. So, we get an exciting 79 win season?

Colletti has no clue what he is doing.

Consider:
- In 1997, the New York Yankees dealt a triple-A shortstop prospect (C. Guzman)as the centerpiece of a deal and got All-Star 2B Chuck Knoblauch.

- In 1998, Boston dealt two pitching prospects to Montreal for Pedro Martinez.

- In 2000, the D’Backs sent four mostly young players to the Phillies for Curt Schilling.

- In ’04, Mark Mulder was dealt for three prospects.Tim Hudson was dealt for three prospects that didn’t pan out.

The list goes on and on. Just this season, you could’ve had Luis Castillo, AJ Burnett and Carlos-freaking-Delgado for prospects. Zito was hanging in the market for half the season.

To win, you need a homegrown core, some money to fill holes and a deep system to make deals. Colletti just shipped off the depth (if not the cream) for a shot at a .500 season.

fisher928 wrote: “This Team is so overstacked with players that have the tools to get the job done that its mind boggling to know that we are in last place.”

Somebody please write that down or print it out, and take it to the players so that they realize they can do better ;-)

That is how I feel – really, this team has such a lot of good guys in it, compared to the Jasonic shambles of last year, going 2-8 is next to inexcusable. That was last year’s team, this years’ should be above .500 or the players are to blame.

Colletti has done what he could – hung on to the real blue-chippers, the guys already performing at major league level, and got some stop-gaps. This team is pretty balanced right now. Hope the players now step it up and deliver, or Colletti will be on the line for their bad performance as well as his average trade abilities.

Okay…I have been thinking about the Guzman trade and I come to a realization. It was a 40 man roster and Rule 5 draft move.

If Guzman has fallen from the list of top 10 or so Dodger prospects, he was at risk of lossing his 40 man roster status. This would of created a situation in which the Dodgers would have lost him anyways. Therefore, trading him at this point for Lugo, who will be a free agent was a good idea because we will be getting draft choices back in return.

This is the challenge of having a good farm system. You can’t keep them all, so you have to trade some of them or risk losing them because you don’t have space for them in your different ways of protecting prospects.

It seems to me that we would have had to trade Guzman at some point this summer because other prospects were on the road to passing him up for that treasured 40 man roster spot.

We have lost a number of prospects over the last couple of years to the Rule 5 draft because we have such a good farm system that people are trying to cherry pick us anyways. So, we might as well trade for some short term help and get more picks for next year.

It was a great move.

While I’m sad to see “Little Cesar” go, I believe it was a good trade. Why ?
First of all, they had no room for Izturis. At shortstop, Furcal is more valuable to the team because not only is he a Gold Glove shortstop, but he’s also a good leadoff hitter with speed. And playing Izturis at any other position is fine from a defensive standpoint but it deprives you of yet another player in your lineup with power.

Second, Izturis wasn’t excited about having to play third or second and I don’t blame him. He won a Gold Glove at shortstop and he’s earned the right to play his position. He’ll get to do that in Chicago.

Third, the Dodgers are badly in need of starting pitching. They’re loaded with good infielders but are lacking in pitchers who can give them quality starts. Greg Maddux, though he just turned 40, is still pitching decently and should do well in a pitcher’s park like Dodger Stadium.

Fourth, Maddux brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to a young Dodger pitching staff and will basically serve as an added pitching coach. Rick Honeycutt had big shoes to fill when he stepped in to replace Jim Colborn as pitching coach. He can use the extra help.

We’re going to miss Izzy but it’s a good move for everyone.

That’s always the case.I am looking forward to your visit next week.They praised him highly.His boss might get angry with him.Do me a favor? When I was young, I’d listen to the radio, waiting for my favorite songs.It’s no use complaining.I’m sure we can get you a great good dealI’m his fanIt’s nothing to be surprised about.

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