All-Star Game and Penny trade
I hope you all enjoyed the All-Star Game last night, despite the disappointing outcome. I remember when Eric Gagne blew the save a couple years ago that cost the NL the game, he was asked if the Dodgers made the World Series and had to travel for Game 7, would he be disappointed. His answer then is much how I’m feeling today. I hope we have that problem. If we make it to the World Series this year and three and a half months from now, have to play Game 7 in Detroit, Oakland, New York, Boston, Minnesota, Chicago or even Los Angeles of Anaheim, I won’t be cursing Trevor Hoffman.
Brad was impressive last night, pumping 99 mph on the gun several times. It was enough to make me think the radar gun was off by a few miles per hour and as Derek Jeter told Tim Brown of the L.A. Times, it was. "I think the gun was a little slow."
As for Nomar, he did not get to play in the game, but he, Brad, Stan Johnston and Jaime Jarrin all represented the Dodger organization with class and dignity, as Tommy Lasorda would say.
And, I guess since I pointed out all the positive articles yesterday, I also have to point out the negative ones, like the story in today’s L.A. Times by Bill Plaschke that revisits the Brad Penny trade two years after it happened. According to Bill, it "Stunk Then. Stinks Now."
While every columnist is entitled to their own opinion, I feel I should at least play devil’s advocate and offer some counterpoints.
– First and foremost, Brad Penny has been one of our two most dependable starters all season long, a commodity that every team is currently seeking. Without him, we’re probably 8-10 games out of first place.
– If we had not traded Paul Lo Duca and signed him to a long-term deal (which we would have had to have done to still have him right now), we might have traded a young catching prospect named Russell Martin. Plaschke’s article admits that Russell’s development has ensured that the team will overcome Lo Duca’s absence.
– Guillermo Mota hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire since the deal. In fact, since then he’s 4-9 with an 5.04 ERA (75 ER/134 IP) and unfortunately, has had his own arm problems. At 31 years old at the time of the trade, there was reason to believe that Mota may have reached his peak while Brazoban was 24 at the time and will still be 27 when he comes back from Tommy John surgery.
– To suggest that using Eric Gagne for 82.1 innings in 2004 was overuse, you have to consider that he also threw 82.1 innings in 2003 and 82.1 innings in 2002, when Mota was with the team. While many like to point to the single outing in which he threw 3.0 innings, he needed just 37 pitches that day. Prior to the trade, he had two 32-pitch outings in April and July while Mota was still on the team.
– As Kim Ng pointed out in the article, Yhency Brazoban was extremely effective down the stretch, going 6-2 with a 2.48 ERA, numbers that were actually better than Mota’s. Jim Tracy used him regularly as a setup man and he overdelivered.
– And finally, Eric had had back and elbow problems before the trade, too. For those who recall 2003 Spring Training, Eric missed a couple weeks due to a bad back. He had Tommy John surgery before he ever reached the Majors. Were those the root of his current problems? I’m not smart enough to know that, or even guess why they’ve plagued him this year, but I certainly don’t think that a three-inning outing or a 2.2-inning outing can be pointed to as the obvious source of the problem.
At the end of the day, the great thing about trades in baseball is that they can be debated and reevaluated years after they happen. I just think that if we’re going to debate them, we should have both sides of the story on the table.
Inside the Dodgers 
Plasche is a total idiot. First of all, since when does a catcher who will play his first postseason inning this year give us “3 ligit years of contention.”
Also, I think Russell Martin already is and will be for the next 10 years at least, a better catcher than Lo Duca.
This article was garbage. I don’t think many dodger fans take this seriously.
yeah, plaschke is an absolute *****, and his opinion isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. your points were all dead on, and to add to that, lo duca is extremely overrated, and every single year he fades after the all-star break to boot. his career post-allstar break numbers are:
.257AVG .312OBP .375SLG (.687OPS)
and this is the guy that would lead us into the postseason? what a crock.
and as far as gagne’s current arm troubles go, it seems to me that he finished the season after the trade just fine, and the problems really started after he hurt his knee playing pepper the following spring training. he altered his mechanics instead of letting his knee heal, and it’s been a cascade of related injuries ever since. plaschke’s version of events is based on nothing but his own fantasy and reflexive dislike for paul depodesta.
p.s. i wasn’t trying to curse, i was just using a synonym for idiot that starts with “more” and ends with “on”. i hope that’s not offensive.
“Stunk Then. Stinks Now”
Not a bad summary of Plaschke’s career.
That article is a joke- I mean if you’re going to play Monday morning quarterback- here’s a thought: at least have some real good stats/logic to back up your after-the-fact judgments. Blaming the demise of Gagne on that trade is a stretch at best. Mota hasn’t done all that much, I do miss LoDuca, but Martin looks like the real deal in every way. Lets focus on bringing in the one more arm we need.
Since Plaschke isn’t even bothering to try making a reasonable point anymore, couldn’t he, for the sake of the ******* who still read the Times, turn to plagiarism? There are plenty of people who aren’t dumb as a sack of nuts to steal from. Maybe and editor could show him how to copy and paste?
1) Plaschke might have been right about overworking Gagne, although that’s nothing compared to Darren Dreifort’s game log in his first couple months in the big leagues. Looking back, it’s clear that the Dodger medical staff will have to be more active and more careful.
2) The trade also gets into the whole Hee Seop Choi can of worms. Were he platooned at first with Saenz, that probably would have been better than some other guys who got put there. What hurts the most about Choi was that he was basically just a Red Sox waiver claim, and the Dodgers got nothing for him.
3) The Dodgers certainly did have Brazoban, but losing depth in the bullpen is never a good thing.
4) DePodesta’s biggest problem was leaving holes. Who replaced Beltre at third? Who replaced LoDuca behind the plate? Colletti at least picked up guys to fill in the holes.
5) Had Brad Penny been healthier earlier on, this would not be an issue. Now that he’s healthy, though, the trade doesn’t look so terrible.
mrvishal – keep in mind LoDuca’s second half slump often occurred because he didn’t get enough rest. He’d play the outfield, or first base or something, instead of be on the bench. That’s why you always have a backup catcher. Catchers should get at least as many off days as JD Drew.
I normally enjoy Plaschke’s columns but this time… well I’ll keep my opinion to myself.
Who cares what Plaschke thinks, he’s a loser!
Two points:
1) Gagne was not overworked after Mota left.
http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/015741.html
2) Also, Plaschke’s statement that the Dodgers had “decent starting pitching” is a falsehood that glossses over the key to the trade. Here are the 2004 Dodger starting pitching stats. (http://tinyurl.com/m7o6u) Three guys with an ERA below 4.50.
Our rotation was Ishii, Lima, Alverz, Weaver, and Perez. Anyone who thinks that’s decent need’s their head checked.
It’s not plagiarism, but Sarah Morris beat Plaschke to the thesis of his story by three days. She didn’t take any extraneous shots at Penny, or claim that the 2004 team was in any position, as it was, to be dominant. But, then, she’s not a crank.
http://www.dodgerplace.com/gagne%20surgery.htm
While it’s off topic, whatever happened to Repko? I thought I read that he would go on a rehab assignment after the all-star break, but the midseason report on Dodgers.com suggested he might be done for the year. What is the latest on him?
Thank you for the inside info. It is nice to hear someone in the organization confirm what we have all speculated.
Regarding Plaschke, I think nearly everybody here detests his writing (and maybe even detests him as a person), so we know to take his nonsense for what it is. My problem is that those who do not read these educated Dodger blogs are actually taking him seriously. I hate to say it, but there are more people who read the Times than who read these blogs. It angers me knowing that Plaschke has corrupted the minds of way too many Dodger fans.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the Times realized its Plaschke Problem, and printed a daily Inside The Dodgers article in place of Plaschke’s debaucherous writing? True Dodger fans could rejoice.
magarcia23 wrote: “Wouldn’t it be nice if the Times realized its Plaschke Problem, and printed a daily Inside The Dodgers article in place of Plaschke’s debaucherous writing?”
Well, with all due respect to Josh (love the blog!), I’m not sure it would be a good idea to give the team its own column inches in the paper. Journalistic indpendence is still a good idea, no matter how Plaschke abuses it.
Plasche is a bum who just doesn’t get it !! His only objective as a jurnalist is to create controversy, regardless of the facts or the people he hurts on the way. His articles read like a National Enquire scandal sheet. Anyone who reads his column is wasting their time.
Go Dodgers !!
I prefer to take a more forward-thinking approach, like what will the lineup be tomorrow.
Here’s the low-down on Jason Marquis. He is either good or awful, but he lasts a while before he’s awful. In his 6 losses, he has an ERA of 11.22, a K/9 of 4.28 and a BB/9 of 3.74. In his 11 wins, though, he has a 3.27 ERA, and his K rate actually dropped to 4.21 per 9, while his BB/9 dropped even more to 2.69 per 9. Most significant number: home run rate. He averages a homer every 2.59 innings when he loses, but averages 1 every 11 innings when winning. He has lost only one game in which he did not allow a home run, and he won only one game where he allowed more than one home run.
This is exactly the type of pitcher that Matt Kemp should start against. Here’s a lineup that would work for him
Furcal
Kemp
Nomar
Drew
Kent
Ethier
Saenz
Martin
Billingsley
Kemp batted in the 2-hole once before, and he hit his first major league home run, and then one the day after, and one the day after that.
And if you want some extra power, Olmedo’s a good go-to guy. Cesar wouldn’t be hurt by sitting down for a little anyway.
*****
As a sidenote, Plaschke’s articles aren’t all bad, as you can see here:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-plaschke4jun04,1,3983121.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger
or here
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-plaschke12may12,1,1290349.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger
Ignore anything from Plaschke involving numbers, but he’s good for the human interest kind of things.
“patriotacts” Your lineup makes sense, assuming your stats are all correct, which by the way I’m impressed with your research !! But Grady is never going to put Kemp in the #2 hole, he strikes out too much. And Izzy will be in because he switch hits and makes contact !! I think your right though he normally would be due for a rest which Olmedo would step in, but they’re coming off 3 days rest and Izzy brings too much to the defense to sit him now !! We have to assume that Kent’s OK which automatically puts him back in at cleanup.
Next 2 weeks is really going to be interesting. I don’t think Ned’s going to be getting much sleep !! He’ll be dreaming, searching, scraching and what ever else he has to do to find that #3 starter. We can only hope he holds firm about not trading our future away !! I’d be happy to cut Perez loose, maybe find a home for Alomar and go with what we have in the system. 2006 is already a great year, so lets give these kids as good a chance as we can to spread their wings !!
Go Dodgers !!
Lo Duca = bum
Penny = stud
Great trade!
My new home page:
http://www.greatsportsnews.com/mlb/mlbsrch.php?q=Los+Angeles+Dodgers
Nobody mentions Juan Encarnacion. He’s putting up numbers very similar to Drew for a lot less money. And he plays every day. Penny and Martin are great, but the trade at the time it was done stunk!
Nice to see somebody in the organization defend this trade. It was the right trade at the time and it’s DEFINITELY the right trade now. If anyone was to blame for Gagne’s injuries and the failure to use players correctly, it should be Jim Tracy. (ie letting Gagne get hurt originally playing a pepper game that he shouldn’t have been playing, or constantly benching Choi for no reason and using Jason Phillips at first base). Then on top of that, having the audacity to shift the blame from himself to others on his way out (and continuing to do so in PIT)…..no class whatsoever. We all see how Tracy is doing now in PIT, that says it all. The Mets can have the 34 year old Loduca and his bloated salary. We’ll take Brad Penny and Russell Martin thank you very much.
That article pretty much ruined any lingering regard I had for Bill Plashke. The guy has absolutely no objectivity with regard to Paul DePodesta for whatever reason.
Like most Dodger fans, I was a bigg Paul LoDuca guy. However, the window was closing on that group of Dodgers. Most of the key guys on that roster were on the wrong side of 30. DePo was correct in deciding that the future was in the minors. Not moving guys like Martin, Kemp, etc. for a short-term improvement was pretty clearly the right move. Swapping guys kids for vets always plays well with guys like Plashke, but ask the Giants if they wouldn’t want Lriano and Nathan back right now.
Moving guys off the major league roster is always going tougher, but it always works out better over time. Penny and Martin already better than LoDuca and that is going to be more true over the next couple years.