Sunday's lineup

Doesn't Dirt Davis usually own us? I feel redemption today. GO BLUE!

Do you think Joe will sit Pierre if Furcal comes back healthy in September? Wouldn't his return negate the need for Pierre leading off and thereby improve our overall defense with the addition of Ethier in the outfield? One can only dream. If that happens, it wouldn't be prudent to call ourselves true World Series Contenders.
Go Dodgers!

Oh I forgot, everyone's high on Pierre after yesterday's first inning hit. He's the catalyst right?

LOL Saul. Phew is a cruel joke!!!

Can someone right one of those songs about Joe/Phew to the tune of Bobby Brown's "Don't Be Cruel"?

write, not right, i'm an idiot.

If Furcal was playing now Pierre would be sitting.

How about, Don't Be Phew? lol.

How about after today the D's play St. Louis, Philly and the Brews (with a little SF sprinkled in), while the Snakes play the Bucs, Braves, Rox, Stros and Puds.

That's going to take a lot of Manny being Manny not to lose any ground.

Its also going to take a lot more than Juan Pierre's raggedy-assed .298 OBP at leadoff.

Also will take a lot of drinking on our part.

Was Broxton not available last night?

Agreed, Enchanted. We need a manager who actually looks at stats instead of looking into his crystal ball for what feels right.

Takes alot of booze to make Phew look good!!!!

Joe Torre 4 RINGS

Jim Tracy, Grady Little, Bill Russell, Glenn Hoffman 0 RINGS!

Enough said. I'd rather rely on Joe T, then those bums.

Mike Scoscia would have been awesome, but he got screwed by the Dodgers.

lol JHall

From the previous thread. I was asked where I'm currently located. Long story - I was conceived in Brooklyn, born in Los Angeles, and reside in Dana Point, CA - South Orange County. I know there are a few others from the blog in this area.

Dodgers lit Davis for five runs in three innings in Arizona a week or so ago, eventually winning the game (after Kuroda melted down). As for the Manny show, I'm at a loss with a lot of the negativity. We sure have a lot of moral finger-pointers out there. The Dodgers have a history of bringing in supposed "malcontents" and doing just fine. Reggie Smith (3 World Series in 5 years) and Dick Allen come to mind. Yeah, yeah, Strawberry and Sheffield weren't great successes off the field, but regardless of the past, I'd like to see the Dodgers give Ramirez his last contract. If so, there's no way the Dodgers will keep Pierre beyond this season...and isn't that reason enough to sign Manny????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I still say Joe is a Schmo for playing Juan over Andre. What a complete let-down.

If signing Manny gets Phew out of town, I would do it in a heartbeat. Also, yes Joe is a better option than the other 4 aforementioned clowns. That isn't saying much. Joe won his rings in the AL with all that Yankee money. If I am not mistaken he had a losing record in the NL before going to the Yankees.

I was as excited as anyone when Torre first came, but just my opinion I've been very disappointed with him so far. Yes, he has 4 WS rings, but with teams that were loaded with all the talent money could buy. When he managed in the National League, he didn't have any success at all. The jury's still out and I'm not writing him off where the Dodgers are concerned, but I'm not thrilled with him so far personally.

Amen Bleu Fille!!!!!

even when doing the research I nver dreamed this would come up:

Dre has 28 runs scored in 44 games batting 2nd.
Kemp has 32 runs scored in the 1/2 hole in 46 games.
Pierre has 25 runs in 57 games at leadoff.

You guys don't want to run the rbi totals huh? I mean this is why he plays right, to score runs. It will take JP 60 games to do what Kemp/Ethier do in 50 just in terms of runs scored. And Apparently 452 games for HRs (lol)

I have nothing against Manny. He's had a great career and he will definitely help us. I'm just very disappointed that only one of our best outfielders aside from him is playing next to him. If the outfield were Manny, Kemp and Ethier, I'd be thrilled.

I would say that if the Dodgers do sign Manny beyond this season, it will be Ned's and Joe's inclination to keep Pierre and trade Andre in the off-season. They look at him now as a good bargaining chip, which he surely is, and Torre will not be satisfied with trying a couple of youngsters at second and short, so we will be in the trade market for a couple of PVL's, especially if we don't sign Furcal.

Joe is probably one of the only managers that can handle Manny effectively however.

Unfortunately Bear, I have to agree. Keeping Manny in an already overcrowded outfield certainly dictates moving an outfielder. As the Cow and Phew have little to no value or interest from any other club at any price and Kemp is untouchable, Ethier would be the most likely to go. If they do trade him, I just hope they get fair value for him and a good return. With Ned's track record, that is a big "IF".

True, all good points above. I'd only have the outfield of Manny, Kemp and Ethier if we had Furcal leading off and playing SS. Im not a fan of Matty or anyone else leading off except RF and JP. I love Matt in the 2 or 3 spot.

Matt is certainly a prototypical 3 hitter. However, his numbers leading off are better than Phew's. Just the facts!!!!

I love me some Manny!!!! It is great having a true 4 hitter...1st one in a long time....He is hustling and having fun (I know only 2 games, but when motivated he is a difference maker and when unmotivated he is still the best hitter the Dodgers have had since Piazza.

If Furcal comes back in September do you think he would be open to a 1 year contract to prove he is healthy? I know someone will probably offer something crazy but I would want to see him healthy for a year again before I committed 3 plus years. The outfield situation is baffling but Joe is a creature of habit and thinks Juan is a difference maker..I do not see and as Jungar aka Little Bill James, points out he is NOT!!! Great guy and hard worker but not an asset.

Lets get another game back and start a role with Manny led lineup to the top of the division!!!

Call me crazy, but it seems to me that it would be more advantageous to have a lead off hitter with an OBP at or above the league average.

I still can't believe that Torre can argue with the success the Dodgers had with Pierre on the DL and Kemp/Ethier one/two in the batting order. I'd like to know, deep down, what Joe thinks he's trying to prove. As I've said many times here, Torre is a bigger disapointment for me than Andruw, mainly because his "bad" does more harm than Jones' bad.

Excellent point Kahli!!

Juan's BA, SLG and OBP are all the same since he came off the DL - .321. That means all singles and no walks. After his usual 1-4 today, he'll be down to .313. Even when he's hitting .321 - a good average by any standards (and from all accounts the bunt yesterday was foul, so he should be at .286), he still doesn't get on base at the major league average, let alone what he needs to make up for his rag arm in center (which was bad enough in left, but its dreadful in center.) He'd have to hit .350-.360 to make him a real leadoff hitter. I'm gonna laugh my *** off at old Joe when other teams take liberties running the bases. He'd have to steal a hundred bases to make up for the runners he lets advance.

Andre not playing is basically the same thing as trading him for Manny...

TORRE...........you're too old and stubborn to manage this Dodger team. We'll pay you Brett Favre money to retire...and stay retired!

I was wrong about something I said earlier... As long as Ned and JoJo are running the show, the Dodgers do have a direction - down.

LOL!!! Sad but true!!!!

I know I am at the game, but can I say this lineup sucks! What's the worst that can happen if Andre is in the lineup - an 8-10 pitch at bat, a walk, a single, a double to opposite field, and possibly even a homerun. I consider this cruel and unusual punishment, and Torre should be ashamed of himself for treating a player this way who has done nothing but produce for the Dodgers! This is very frustrating!
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Sparkle - Welcome to the deep end! FABULOUS SONG!!
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GO DODGERS!!

Frank should take stock at year's end, re-sign Manny, show Joe and Ned the door, promote Logan White, do "something" with Pierre and Jones, and hire a young, vibrant manager with Dodger blood racing through his veins to lead this club into the next winning decade. There. Simple, huh?

LOL Nelly!! Makes no sense.

Say this lineup stinks after we beat down Dirt Davis. Im throwing down double on the Dodgers today. No way the Snakes beat us today.

Juan Pierre's career averages (.300 avg., .347 OBP, 84 OPS, 96 Runs, 198 Hits, 55 SBs)

Maury Wills' career averages (.281 avg., .330 OBP, 88 OPS, 89 R, 178 Hits, 49 SBs).

So by your guys' definition, was Maury Wills not an "asset" and "a cruel joke."

What I'm trying to point out is Pierre's skills are useful to this or any team, and he's done a good job his two years here. Like I argued with a couple of you two days ago, the difference between him and Ethier isn't that great, so quit making it seem like it's some huge injustice that Ethier is on the bench.

If it were me in Torre's shoes, I'd probably play Ethier, but I can totally understand why Joe is currently going with Juan.

OK, I've had enough of Pierre vs. Ethier arguments for now. Let's get ready for the game. We need this, and hopefully we can get to Davis, 'cause I don't have the highest hopes with our pitchers today.

Go Dodgers!

LMAO!! Yeah Hamlet. That is why no other team has any interest in Phew at any price and they almost all want or would take Ethier.

Did Juan Pierre leadoff when he won a World Series with the Marlins? Luis Castillo hit 2nd? I bet they both had good stats that year, because I remember them on base a ton for the Marlins against the Cubs and Yankees.

Also, Wills played in a completely different era. Those were really good numbers back in that era. Pierre would not have made it to the big leagues in that era.

Pierre has little interest 'cause he's overpaid (don't blame him, it was what the OF market was two years ago; see Gary Mathews Jr.) and the only teams that would need him are the other contenders, and they don't have any openings in the OF.

We could eat the majority of Phew's salary and there is still no interest in Phew by anyone. Why were his previous two teams more than happy to let him go. LOL!!! Nice glasses. Is that a rose color?

Different era Hamlet. Maury played in a pitcher's era and with less than half the teams we have now so the talent wasn't as diluted.

Looking at Juan's career is also misleading. He's been trailing off since 2003. The reason he gets so many hits is because he gets so many PA's every year. If you want to look at the flip side of that, he's always one of the leaders in outs per year. Even a .250 hitter will get 175 hits per year with 700 ABs.

I don't care that he's a great guy and a hard worker either - all ball players are that (well, not Andruw but I digress), but I want someone in there that doesn't give away more defensively than he's capable of making up offensively. Nothing against him personally, he just is not a starting OFer. I said back in Mar/Apr that I don't have a problem with him being a PR, occasional PH and as a spot starter giving the regulars a day off. In that capacity I think he has and adds value to this team. But starting, no way.

And BTW, welcome to the blog!!

enchanted, jhall -- like I said, I agree with you and the majority of others on here that Ethier is better than Pierre. But the difference to me is slight, and I don't see it as some huge injustice the Pierre gets more PT as you guys do.

If it were Kemp getting the short end than Ethier, than I'd totally be scratching my head, but in this case, I could live with it.

Oh, and yes I know Wills and Pierre played in completely different eras. What I was trying to show is a player of that skill-set has great use to a ball club.

We need a manager that doesn't call Pierre's mama before making out his line-up.

On another note, most really good and championship caliper teams are strong defensively up the middle. Martin is great. We already have two weak defensive players in Kent and Berroa/Nomar up the middle, so playing an incredibly weak defensive player in CF further takes away from the team. Its not fundamentally sound baseball.

hey, how do you guys get seperate paragraphs. Do you put a tag?

jhall/enchanted - sorry :)o(
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GO DODGERS!! :)

I don't think you showed it Hamlet. If he was producing like a Brett Butler (similar skill set), then he would be valuable. And Butler could field his position.

<|:-)o( Nelly!!
Actually Hamlet you have pointed out why Phew does not belong in CF, LF, or starting and leading off. Thank You!!!!

Hamlet - tripple space or single space then put a period, then single space again and it'll break the paragraphs for you.

Got it.

Man, that was a nice play by Blake. We got lucky in that inning.

JoJo's problem, along with being arrogant and stubborn, is that he thinks all vets will come back to their past glory, no matter how long ago that was, be it Nomore, JP, Kent, etc. Plus he disdains youth that isn't named Jeter. He was absolutely the worst choice imagineable for a young team. I know I've said it before, but how do you go from a young team's manager in Girardi, then when he declines, do an exact 180 and get Torre? He doesn't teach, he preaches. The arrogance comes in not only in his my way line-ups, but also that he expects the young guys to accept what he has to say like it was the word of God. With he and Ned leading the way, the D's could wander the desert for another forty years before they come across the promised land.

Are any of you guys keeping an eye on the Angels-Yankees game. Halos led 5-0, trailed 8-5, Teixeira then hit a grand slam in the top of the eighth to give them a 9-8 lead, then NY scored six in the bottom of the eighth, thanks to three errors by Anaheim.

It's 14-9 going into the ninth. As much as I don't like the Yankees, I gotta say I like seeing the Angels on the wrong end of the scoreboard even more.

Wow, sounds like someone could use some bullpen help.

let's go Manny!!!

Angels will do alright come playoff time when they can shorten their rotaion and lengthen their bullpen. I'd give anything to have Scioscia as our manager.

JP or Either who cares? Neither are allstars, and as Dodger fans we want to win. Sure, both are great people, especially Jp for all the abuse he takes on the this blog.
I would have played Kemp in center today with Either in right, and Kemp leading off with Blake no 2. We can use all outfielders we can muster for the next 2 months. If Either can't stand rotating or a bench role right now when we are winning, he should move on. We want team players.

Manny Rbi Single!!!!

I think Ethier is the consumate team guy as is noted by his interviews and demeanor on the bench.

well said padodgers

Ethier has not once complained about the situation.
Stupid is as stupid does. Ethier is a much better player and gives the Dodgers a better chance of succeeding than Phew. That's all I've got to say about that!!!!

If we keep batting Jeff Kent behind Manny teams are going to start walking him all the time just so they can pitch to Kent. Kent should be batting 7th.

Loney!!! Exactly why he should be hitting fifth.

<|:)

Say what you will about him, Manny changes the whole tone of our offense. We, finally, have an impact bat that other teams fear. It only took 2 years and 2 mistakes (Pierre and Jones) to get there.

<:( Wally.

LOL Beav!!!!

Johnson throws up more junk than a little kid after a birthday party.

Andy LaRoche 2 run HR to tie up Pirates and Cubs at 5. nice job ALR

We better have our hitting shoes on today, 'cause we're gonna need it with our available pitchers.

Rats!!®

Looks like Cinderella is turning back into a pumpkin. Pathetic that Johnson starts over Park.

Yep, 2 runs isn't going to win this!!

Ethier has never complained about it and unlike Pierre, he doesn't sit at the end of the bench and sulk or refuse to talk to reporters after the game when he's not starting.

Keep falling behind in the count and you will get ripped. Way to let Dirt Davis get an rbi single.

Double Rats!!®

Agreed bluecrew.

Thank you Bleu Fille'!!!!

Johnson isn't going to last long at this rate. His pitch count is pretty high already.

Joe just doesn't get it on any level does he? Park hates short relief and was pitching admirably as a starter. Johnson's nothing but a journeyman mop-up man at best. Sure Johnson pitched a great game the other day, but look at the Giants line-up he faced.

When you're not going to play your best players regularly, how does one expect to win regularly?

I'm hoping he could go 2 more innings. It's way too early to go to the pen right now, especially with Park and Kuo pitching the last couple nights.

If Saito gets healthy, then Park could go back to that 5th starter role.

Time for a Pierre pop-up

Juan being Juan.

I would prefer Park as a starter and I prefer Stults to Johnson. Stults may not always bring the A game, but I like the way he guts it out and he swings a pretty good bat.

Thank God Kemp can hit.

You knew walking Berroa had to be a good omen for us.

Davis is just as shaky as Johnson.

Yeah seesky - talk about throwing up junk.

Yep, it would sure help alot if Johnson could get us a couple of more innings.

At least Man Ram is hitting.

I still won't be happy til Ethier gets playing time.

Manny Ramierz HAS GOT TO STAY IN LA!! THIS GUY IS AMAZING!!!

Manny is some hitter. Wow. This team should be catching on fire. Manny may be just what we needed.

Manny!!!!

That was huge, 'cause it got Davis out of there. At least now if Johnson doesn't last too long (I don't expect him to), we won't be at too big a disadvantage.

Hopefully DRUW never touches Manny and gives him his disease. Or maybe that could work in a great way and get DRUW out of his slump.

Just got on and all I can say is,
W O W

BOY!! Manny sure changes the dynamics of this teams offense for the better. I sure like what I've seen so far from him.

Sweet!! Still gonna need Kent to step it up to really take off.

I love that we now have a consitent bat in the lineup. Someone that teams will want to pitch around. The guy is just awesome. What he brings to a lineup single handedly is awesome. He's the key to the 2 or 3 run inning. Prior to him we were always lucky to scratch out 2 or 3 runs a game. The guy comes up with 2 outs and a runner on and just HITS!!

And then there's Kent...

Kent is in a pretty bad slump. PERFECT TIMING FOR A NEW CLEAN UP HITTER!! I seriously can't get over this Manny hysteria, and the way the city LOVES him, and how he just energizes a lineup and a ballclub. This guy is a like a damn shot of adrenaline.

It won't take long for other teams to figure out that you pitch around Manny and go after Kent.

Kent should be fined for breaking up a rally.

lol boblee

Kent should be hitting 7th, but at least he's not as bad as Andruw hitting 5th.

Now that was a nice inning by Johnson.

Alright Johnson. Way to hang in there.

Great going, just like last night.
Shut them down right after we dumped on them

Do you guys think it'd be better to switch Kent and Martin in the lineup? That way he gets better pitches to hit, and he can still hit it out of the park every now and then.

Anybody hits better than Andruw anywhere.

Martin is a much better hitter than Kent at this stage, and Kent could really benefit from some good pitches to hit. Really though, he had 2 hits and an rbi last night, so it's not all that bad.

MANN RAMM FOR EL PRESIDENTE!!!

Kent will be ok. I know he is stuggling right now, but hes streaky and he went through a stretch like this last year and rebounded to have a pretty solid year.

Manny is WICKED AWESOME!! This is seriously like Fernando mania... Just every game because he's an everyday player,... It's crazy!

In Kent's defense, he has hit the ball hard a lot lately and been burned by good defensive plays to take hits away from him.

That's two good innings by Johnson. We needed that desperately. Hope he can keep it up.

That's true bluecrew. I just wish JoJo would get a set batting order and stick to it for more than 2 games in a row. His line-up have been more inane than Grittle's.

Has Manny hit a ball softly since hes been a dodger? I swear it feels like hes gonna get a hit every time he comes up to the plate.

I think Kent's done as good a job a 40-year-old can do. He just needs to be batting 6th or 7th, even before Manny got here. He's not a power bat or big RBI guy anymore, but he's very solid in the bottom half of the lineup.

Anything Johnson gives us beyond 4 is a bonus.

I think Joe is going to hit Kent 5th against lefties and Loney 6th and then against righties hit Loney 5th and Kent 6th.

there it is. his hit for the day.

Agree, Enchanted. His lineups have been baffling at times and it seems like Andre got more playing time with Grittle than he has with Torre. Go figure.

Kent needs to produce period regardless of his age to warrant playing him and his poor defense. If he's not getting it done your better off with a good defensive 2B batting 8th.

I know I've said this before but I would like to see Kemp and Martin switch in the order.

Well it should be interesting next year when Kent retires. Do we sign Furcal and watch him sit on the bench like Nomar? Does Blake sign a contract and especially if he will be 35? Does Manny Ramirez sign with the Dodgers for four years and 100 million? I got a feeling both Blake and Ramirez will not sign with the Dodgers. I got a feeling Neddy Colleti will trade Andre Ethier for an infielder (a second basemen or a shortstop). This will leave the Dodgers back where we have been in the past with two poor outfielders in Pierre and Jones, no third basemen and no offense. This is why I am so frustrated with these trades. Ramirez is great, but will we get out of the first round of the play-offs or even get in. If we do not, this will have put the Dodgers back to where they have been in the past, a mediocre team going nowhere.

I disagree sltaufer, if Manny produces the rest of the season like he is now he will become a fan favorite and a face of the franchise and I think he will be resigned, which means we will have a legit middle of the order bat and we wont be in the same place we were over the past few years.

Also, I don't see 3B as a black hole next year because I believe DeWitt can produce their if given consistant playing time.

I wouldn't doubt that if they sign Manny, they'll re-up Kent for another year and DeWitt takes over at third. If they don't sign Manny, Kent retires, DeWitt plays 2B and they resign Blake. Ferk I think they wait and see if/how he does in Sept., then they might sign him to a 1-year incentive laden contract so he can go FA again in 2010.

The way McCourt is selling Manny jerseys and cheap seats, look for Ramirez to reach a deal to stay in L.A., which I will applaud.

Kent should not be resigned under any circumstances. He needs to retire. Nomore and Lowe also should be gone. Ferk at 1 year incentive if he comes back decently in Sept. Use the money to go after CC or a top of the rotation starter.

We really need Johnson to get through this inning. Then he can qualify for the win, and line up the bullpen to close out the game. Hopefully we can keep putting runs on the board, that way we can rest some relivers. But, as I'm typing this, it does not look like he's going to make it out of the fifth....

Bye Bye JJ