Industry Meetings

Heres a Fan's Opinion:

Get Cabrera or Arod

Then get a CF and a SP.

We will come in record #s if you put a team like that on the field.

Hope you have a productive time in Florida, Josh.

Here's something to think about. LaRoche is performing big time in a play-off atmosphere. Contrast that to A-Rod's lack of production in the play-offs. I would be very careful before I would brush LaRoche aside and spend mega dollars for A-Rod. And before trading any of the kids, think hard about why everybody wants them! The names required to get Cabrera and rumored that we offered last year are totally ridiculous!

Here's another fan's opinion:

Don't pay the price in prospects for Cabrera unless it drops significantly and doesn't include the untouchables -- we all know who those are.

Keep the kids, and add through free agency and the fans will come in record numbers not only this year but for the next decade.

On the other hand, trading the likes of Matt Kemp is one of the few ways the Dodgers could DECREASE my excitement about the team and thus negatively influence the number of times I go to Dodger Stadium.

Cabrera is a great young player, but the homegrown talent is the type that captures my heart.

The Marlins can ask for a kings ransom because there is no urgency to trade Cabrera. There's just no reason for the Marlins to ask for anything less than Kemp, Bills, Kershaw etc from the Dodgers...would you? The same applies to what they're asking of other teams. I don't expect anybody to pay the Marlins price this offseason and if any team does bite the Marlins are the true winners.

All A-Rod takes is a boatload of money, it's really a simple choice. If you really want Cabrera wait until 2010, he'll be on the open market and it won't create any holes on your roster. Though I'm sure he'll end up in the American League.

The Marlins are asking way to much for Cabrera but don't be surprised if Ned makes a deal.

I would like Rowand in CF.

And Pierre in left...that is LEFT OUT!

"Then get a CF and a SP."
I love it, as if the master of the moronic didn't go out and get 120 million worth of CF'ers and Pitchers LAST year (Schmidt, Pierre, Wolf, Loazia).

And now you want him to go out and get a legit 3b? He spent 20 million on 1b/3b last year and we have 10 million locked in for the inferior talent than our own prospect...(Nomar/LaRoache)

I wish my bosses would alloe me to fail so miserably.

Get rid of Ned.

jungar,

I'm a little wishy washy about dumping all of that money on A-Rod when Dodger Stadium is already pricing me out. Do you think we should go young guys or do we need a real star?

If we go for Jones or Hunter, we might as well get A-Rod instead, but I don't want to get rid of too much for Cabrera who is destined for the OF and then we're in need of a 3B again...

If we could package Colletti and Pierre for a bag of ??@#$#, I'd feel more relaxed.

Wonder if Fukudome can play CF? He's supposedly on par with Ichiro in his defensive ability. Might be a good option for us, if we can just concentrate on getting rid of Pierre pretty much at any cost.

amen, messagebear. I don't care if you're playing 3B, as long as Pierre is not playing OF.

Oh Saint, I agree with you BTW (the sad part) we in fact do needto upgrade those two spots to win......I was just making a point.

Scott my opinion changes all the time!!

-The ticket prices etc will go up no matter if we have A-rod or not. McCourt has proven that already.

-Right now I am on A-Rod/Andrew Jones/Rowand/Hunter or no one but with an asterik

(asterik) CF or no one would only be fine with me if Pierre is off the roster or not guarnteed to be starting. 100 million for Andre Jones, just to get rid of Ethier and play Pierre in LF is wasting more money than simply eating Pierre's contract.

-Piggy Miggy works for me (even if he will be needing to play LF soon) as long as we are only giving up one major prospect (which is unlikely and why I sorta am A-rod or nothing) But if they will take Kemp and frindge prospects, I wouldn't be oppossed.

Pitching, more than anything, is what is really needed IMO

As for A-rod..I'd like to go record as saying he is my least favorite ballplayer of all time besides Bonds. And that's saying alot. I don't really want him, but if we got him I would also be stoked because there is no denying his talent..it's a catch 22. So those who say they don't want A-rod because it will be his team more so than "the dodgers" I am on board with..

I was on record here a few times this year (before the season, and during) saying that I don't mind loosing (don't like it either) as long as its our kids and they will improve and are players I want to root for. I still mean that. We could have come in 4th place just as easily of Nomar ,Schmidt, gonzo, Pierre etc..werent ever on the 07 team. I suggest we would have been a much better team without any of them. So let's not let Coletti make the same mistakes again.

A-rod rules I get it, but I, already, would be rooting much harder for LaRoche, primarily because so many of you guys and the national media says we have a hole there, when he is one of the top 20 offensive prospects in baseball. I root much harder for our kids to get great and come together as a unit to win (the process) more so than a team full of mercenaries..

"...I probably won't be able to post much for the three days I'm here but rest assured it's only the business side people who are here with me in Orlando. Ned Colletti, Joe Torre and their entire baseball operations staff hasn't stopped working towards putting together next year's coaching staff and adding talent to the team on the field...."

You mean to tell us that there are supposedly people in the employ of the Los Angeles Dodgers that responsible for the product and the quality of said product?

Wow, one would never know this was the case based on the past 20-years....who knew?

btw, I was under the impression that all Dodger production has been off-shored to Asia, South America and Mexico...you know labor costs being what they are in the USA and those pesky civil rights and EPA restrictions or what not...better to employ a bunch of endentured teenagers in places w/o child labor laws and such to develop.

Leaving Ned with the keys to the store is scary.

Josh--While you are in the industry meetings, I thought I would remind you of something that came up earlier in the year. You mentioned that there are recordings of Dodger games that are being digitized. I think that it would be fantastic business to make those available to fans on-line. I know that I would be happy to pay to download class Vin Scully to my iPod (the price point needs to be worked out, but I think that the market is undeniable). It's a revenue stream that is thus far untapped, and frankly, it is one that the Dodgers would have a distinct advantage over most teams with--after all, I don't know anyone who would pay to listen to Rex Hudler.

I also second everything Jungar just posted (except for trading Kemp for Piggy Miggy--not because I disagree with his assessment of the trade, which would probably be a good move for us analytically, but largely for the same reasons that he says later--I would rather root for one of our own prospects). But his points are spot on.

And, on that note, James Loney tied for 6th in NL Rookie of the Year voting (though with only 1 vote). If he had been up at the beginning of the year . . . .

Lee I always enjoy your post, espically when we agree.

No, just kidding....but we have been agreeing alot lately!!

Josh - why is there little-to-no pub for the Dodger boys in the red, white and blue, namely Andy LaRoche and Delwyn Young? Team USA in the World Cup is doing well and so are the Dodger prospects on the roster. They are playing alongside other blue-chip prospects (like Evan Longoria, who is the only think keeping LaRoche from being the #1 3B prospect in baseball.) It would be nice to read about them on dodgers.com. (Chin-Lung Hu is playing for Taiwan, isn't he?) In fact, it is feeling like a lost opportunity to talk up the youngsters positively while they represent the U.S. in international competition.

At least some of the bloggers notice.

Well played Fogey....and so true...I wish the dodgers would talk up their younger players instead of talking them down.

good opinions, jungar.

The Cleveland Indians went to 2 WS with mostly home grown talent

but couldn't hold on to them forever (Manny, Thome). The Dodgers have the means to sign these guys once they're ready for the big bucks down the road.

Get rid of Pierre, sign Rowand, and trade for Dan Haren maybe?

Everyone keeps talking about the big name bats as the answer for all the Dodger woes, but the primary culprit of the collapse last season was the pitching - not the hitting! Starters were ineffective and the bullpen blew several games that brought the Dodgers down. Loney's hot bat probably produced as much as A-Rod or Cabrera would have, and the Dodgers had enough runs to win most of the stretch games if they had gotten decent pitching. I still think we can win with the bats we have. But if we could dump Pierre and maybe pick up Hunter or Rowland, that would make it easier. I think Jones is overpriced and risky. Give LaRoche a chance at 3rd with Nomar as backup, and with Kemp and Ethier in the lineup everyday and Torre focusing on playing as a team, I think there will be plenty of run production for adequate pitching. So improve the pitching without giving up the kids and we should have enough to win.

* "these guys" meaning Loney, Kemp, Kershaw, etc...

I should add that I don't think that signing A-Rod will directly affect ticket prices. Ballpark attendance is a big revenue stream, but in LA, media, licensing, etc. is likely just as big. And to an extent, I am pretty sure that A-Rod would sell more jerseys.

Theoretically, ticket prices will go up as attendance goes up. At 3.8 Million fans this year, that's record attendance, which means that the team can increase prices and still draw. I think that this probably works pretty well in terms of market theory to application.

I also think the team has been good at recognizing that, for better or worse, the "experience" is a critical factor in attendance (and thus ticket price). Big companies who like to woo people will prefer private boxes, exclusive benefits, etc. That is why McCourt is investing in additional amenities and clubs in the stadium. They have also done well in pricing--there are alot of deals for "off-peak" nights--2 for 1's, family fun packs, etc. for weekday games and the like, which has served to maximize attendance.

I think the only way that A-Rod will affect ticket prices is in two possible ways, one of which is decidedly good:

1) A-Rod will add cachet. just like when Magic was with the Lakers (and later Shaq and Kobe). It's tinseltown, and stars beget stars. The Dodgers have not had a star attraction like this since Lasorda retired (with the possible exception of Piazza, but the timing was about the same).

2) A-Rod improves our chances of winning. People are more likely to want to come to the stadium when the Dodgers win. As more people come, the market will bear higher prices (see above). Like I said, that's a very good side-effect.

And credit should go to the team for keeping a pretty affordable ticket in the Top Deck and the Pavillion for a lot of years.

I'd rather have A-rod than Cabrera. It's already been pointed out that Alex would take a boat (a big boat) load of money. McCourt's got that. To get Cabrera would cost some of the kids and create some voids on the roster. Not a good idea at all.
Maybe it would be better to give LaRoche a shot and concentrate on starting pitching and a center fielder.

I'd be in favor of giving Repko a shot in center, but he keeps smashing into things.

Really, other than Saito and Beimel (which I will give him the credit even though deep down i don't think he deserves it) has anythng that Ned has touched, pitching wise worked out?

Baez

Seo

Tomko

Hendu

Schmidt

Wolf

etc..

The Harry Wendelstedt School for Umpires
http://www.umpireschool.com/

So my 43 year old cousin deciced to jump out of the rat race (sold his tool design company) to go here (above) to become a professional umpire.

Proctor might turn out ok.

Were Lance Carter and Hamulak Ned acquisitions as well? (file under bad)

The LA Times just had an article about umpire school:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-umpires12nov12,1,4363303.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

"has anything that Ned has touched, pitching wise worked out?" - Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | November 12, 2007 03:12 PM

Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis.

Hamulack came with Seo and Carter with Baez.

Not re-signing Gagne doesn't look too bad at the moment.

David Wells as a desperation move wasn't too bad; he gave what was expected (some ok starts, some bad starts) and only cost (too much) money.

thanks old_fogey

The Dodgers also got 24 decent innings (and 2/3 of a horrible inning) out of Chin-hui Tsao for the minimum salary before he went down with (another) injury.

Yes, you have to dig deep to find good pitching acquisitions but, to be fair, pitching can be like that.

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/2007-plus-minus-leaders.asp

Hall of famers don't count..lol..but yeah that was a good one.

So thought you guys would be interested in seeing some defenseive rankings from 07 (link above)

Rivera is quoted as telling an AP reporter in the Dominican Republic that he'll consider Los Angeles once he can talk money with other teams. "The Yankees are my first option," he said in Santo Domingo. "But if that is not possible, there is Joe with the Dodgers."

we have a closer...No thanks Mo.

Well the doors open at midnight that's 9:00PM PT. Those that have to will be placing their hand on the pocket that holds their money. I doubt they'd have it on them. It would be to much to carry. I guess the little check book will do. Did anybody take a look at what they wrote on Olmedo Saenz in the free agent update? Take a look and have a laugh. You'll find it when you open the article about Jeff Kent.

Rivera should find a team that needs a closer if he don't sign with the Yankees.

Looks like they got Saenz mixed up with Seanez.

I would be so pissed if I was MCcourt...But Neddie, didn't you get us a CF last year?

Yeah well I did, and he played exactly as expected but he isn't very good. We need an upgrade Frank, he can't hit and has no arm.

Colletti explores free-agent options

A center fielder or third baseman is possible on the open market, though the Dodgers' general manager says the team has not decided whether to pursue Rodriguez. He also says pitching will probably come via a trade.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-dodgers13nov13,1,2980181.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=3&cset=true

I think we could do well with pitching in the free agent market. Hiroki Kuroda is someone we could go after, so is Josh Fogg and Carlos Silva.

We don't need another "ace" last time Ned tried to bring in another Ace we got Charlie Brown with a bum shoulder.

We just need to sure up the back end of the rotation.

the thought of pierre in LF repulses me. seriously, its an absolute joke. any kind of trade scenario scares me, because i doubt we would get the better end of it. max you are right we need a good back end, we don't really need another ace and certainly shouldn't spend lavishly on one after "charlie brown", haha.

Juan Pierre would be the worst offensive left fielder in the history of baseball as a sport.

I like how Ned thinks third base isn't our biggest hole. I really think If LaRoche has a good spring or at least a better spring then Nomas he'll be our starter.

getting rid of Pierre would be addition by subtraction.

old_fogey_la or anyone else

where can we follow young and laroche this winter?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?cat=17

rotoworld updates some too.

cool. thanks

Bill James' 2008 player projections are out. Here is how he projects a few Dodger players of interest. -from dodgerthoughts commenter-Xeifrank

Player /Ave/Obp/Slg/Ops

Kemp /.322/.365/.521/.873

Ethier /,304/.371/.477/.847

Kent /.290/.368/.486/.854

Martin /.292/.379/.456/.835

LaRoche /.275/.367/.458/.825

Loney /,321/.372/.465/.823

Nomar /.292/.347/.451/.798

Furcal /.286/.352/.403/.755

Pierre /.298/.343/.361/.703

---------------------------

AROD /.300/.406/.586/.992

A.Jones /.253/.343/.491/.834

T.Hunter /.274/.329/.482/.811

Pierre with a .343 obp? HA this list is invalid due to that.

i don't really put too much into those projections. if you look at the ones from 2007 they are way way off in many respects.

seriously where does mlb.com get the mental defectives to write for their web site?

Dodgers: An uncertain personnel picture, considering the health questions of Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf and the payroll if the Dodgers go after Rodriguez, and yet the Dodgers have talented veterans and prospects to deal and thus the flexibility to fill their holes any number of ways.

talented veterans? Who?

The only talented veterns I can think of are Penny, Lowe and Saito. Beimel is pretty good at what he does to.

We have enough prospects to deal for 24 year old Cabrera.

We can always fill out in the Free Agent Market.

I'm torn on the Cabrera thing. He's put up amazing numbers and he's only 24. I don't think his weight is that big of an issue but it could be. I can see giving up LaRoche and Kemp for him but I can't see getting rid of Loney and Bills. The problem with this deal and the deal with signing A-Rod is that we need pitching and a centerfielder more than we need a third baseman. If LaRoche can stay healthy then I think he can do the job, but will he stay healthy? As much as I don't like Kemp, I'd rather see him stay if he isn't going to be traded for starting pitching.

So I think we need to pass on A-Rod and Cabrera. Sign Jones or Hunter(I'd prefer Jones). Let LaRoche play 3B. Trade Kemp and a couple prospects(not Kershaw) for an outfielder and a starting pitcher. I'd also try to package Nomar, Pierre and maybe Stults and Hull together and send them to the American League for maybe an outfileder/backup third baseman and a good number 4 or 5 starter that could give us 1 to 3 good years until our younger pitchers are ready to contribute at the big league level. But I'd have to pass on A-Rod's big money and Cabrera's possible weight issue.

Regarding the Bill James' projection list above: say what you will but the WORLD SERIES CHAMPION Boston Red Sox pay that man a significant salary for his statistical analyses, which I assume go far beyond what he publishes on his web site. His projections carry a lot more weight than my, or most anyone else's, opinions here.

To me, the interesting lines are Ethier's (bit of an eye-popper), Kent's dropoff being small, and how little an improvement (if at all) offensively Jones and Hunter are UNLESS PIERRE IS DROPPED from the starting lineup.

"i don't really put too much into those projections. if you look at the ones from 2007 they are way way off in many respects." - Posted by: jspelk2@uic.edu | November 12, 2007 11:08 PM

I'd like to see a plot of all the 2007 (and previous) projections and how close they predicted reality, the difference between projection and reality. I'll bet that if you make the y-axis "number of players" and the x-axis "projection minus actual", you get an approximate bell-curve shape that centers near zero.

--------------------------

About LaRoche, Young in the world cup - there are articles at the minor league site, http://www.milb.com and there is coverage by the International Baseball Federation at http://www.baseball.ch

-----------------------------

You have to include Jeff Kent in the talented veteran list. Sure, he has the range of a rosebush now, but the .875 OPS (approx line was .300/.375/.500 wasn't it?) can't be ignored. Furcal is still a decent SS, and not a liability on offense, esp if he hits low in the order - he'd be cool as an AL 9th place hitter.

Yeah I did forget about Furcal but I'm not including Kent because he's only good for 1 more year. Yeah he's a vetern but he isn't staying with the club for more than 1 more year.

Cameron you so crazy. Let me stop you here. No one wants Juan Pierre or Nomar. Not for 46 million dollars. I would be more than happy just to get both off the roster for free with no players coming back. Getting them off the roster and playing better players that we already have (Young, LaRoche) is about the best I could hope for. It won't happen though. We are stuck with them.

About the projections..I simply posted them, not saying to belive them, but in general I agree with Fogey. Bill James knows his stuff.

(Thanks Eric Stephens for this info below):

.301/.362/.453. that would be our average projection for all 8 hitters combined...thats pretty **** good. And supports those who say, pitching, more than hitting will be the 08 problem if not fixed.

Here's a trade possibility:

Pierre and $$$ to Chi Sox for Garland. I know Garland isn't great but he would make a fine #4 and we free ourselves of Pierre (the Sox are reportedly interested in speed and need a CF). This would open up the door for a Jones signing and we suddenly have a great OF. LaRoche/Hu/Nomar/Abreu between the 4 we'll find somebody that sticks at 3rd and have a much improved team for '08.

Furcal

Martin

Loney

Jones

Kemp

Kent

Ethier

LaRoche (or anyone else on the 3rd base list)

Penny

Lowe

Billingsley

Garland

Schmidt/Loaiza/Kuo/Kershaw???

I'd bet alot that the Sox will get Hunter...

charris- that's who I was talking about dealing Nomar, Pierre and maybe Stults and Hull to. I think we could get Garland and somebody else for that deal. But my first choice would be to see Kemp and some pitchers go to Pittsburgh for Bay and 1 of the 3.(Duke, Gorzelanny or Grabow)

jungar- somebody will make a trade for Pierre and Nomar if we have something to go along with either of them. We don't have to throw top prospects in with them just average prospects.

jungar, even if they sign Hunter, they are still pretty thin in the OF. They might actually be desperate enough (Guillen says he wants more speed) to make that move in lieu of getting Hunter

jungar, even if they sign Hunter, they are still pretty thin in the OF. They might actually be desperate enough (Guillen says he wants more speed) to make that move in lieu of getting Hunter

woah...sorry for the double post

That would be rad. I am all for it...Make it happen guys..lol

"Furcal is still a decent SS, and not a liability on offense, esp if he hits low in the order - he'd be cool as an AL 9th place hitter."

wow after his first bad season in his career he's all of a sudden a 9 hitter? Whats with you people.

Furcal had a great season in 2006 and if Jason Repko wasn't such an eager beaver in spring training Furcal would have had the same good productive year he always has.

Furcal is a good lead off guy. This season was a fluke.

http://www.pe.com/sports/baseball/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_S_arod_economics_13.3f76057.html

This is interesting.

Vince Gennaro, baseball economist and author of "Diamond Dollars: The Economics of Winning in Baseball," asks: Do teams like the Dodgers and Angels "have enough of the parts in place today and enough young talent to surround A-Rod with so they don't have to pay a lot around him?"

A healthy Furcal is still one of the top leadoff hitters in the game.

I'd like to blame Repko for the injury but I just can't because he was trying to win a job out of spring training. It was just hard luck. But I think Furcal bounces back and has a strong year.

I personally think Boras and A-Rod are dependents of the devil but I'd love to have his production in the middle of the lineup.

That being said the money used towards him could be spent elsewhere and fill more holes like center field and our GM position.

decedents*

I hear you on that one max.

I am torn, as mentioned there is no one in baseball besides Bonds I like less. But ****, throw in 300/400/500 in the middle of all those kids and we got ourselef a great offensive team, even with the out machine.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/will-batting-220-hurt-andruw-jones-contract-chances/

another good, but way to technical article for me on Andrew Jones

Here's a column from foxsports.com that talks about Hunter being a good fit and an opinion about last year's Dodger CF...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7431662

sorry oldfogey, i don't have time to plot a graph for ya... i agree Bill James is knowledgeable but what I was saying is I don't expect those numbers to be exact in every case. Injuries happen which would reduce performance, someone has a breakout year etc. I looked up the projections from last year and he seriously low-balled all of the Dodgers young hitters. Now you may say now they have been in the majors longer so he has a more accurate picture of what to predict for the future, but nevertheless there is always a chance that a player suprises.

I like Jones better than Hunter.

who needs A-Rod!!!

Andrew Christian LaRoche is tearing up the Baseball World Cup. He had 3 more hits today as well as 3 more RBIs.

Overall he's hitting a monstrous 429/.480/.905. Give this kid the job Ned.

I also like Jones better than Hunter and also agree that LaRoche should be given the job and let A-Rod get his check from somewhere else.

If we sign A-Rod now, it will hand-cuff us in later years. We will need to resign pitchers and maybe bring pitchers in. Pitching wins championships and pitching isn't cheap. After that the young guys will be up for arbitration and then free agency. That may be a few years down the road but signing A-Rod now will hurt our chances of signing top tier pitchers and our best young guys sown the road. $25-$30 million for 1 bat is crazy when you could get 2-3 good pitchers for that.

WOW!!! C.C. took home the CY Young Award over Beckette.

Colletti said of the team’s situation at third base: “It’s kind of like center field. We’ll investigate and see.”

See this is why I think he is a total A-hole. What he should say is, we currently have one of the top 3b prospects in all of baseball who we have very high hopes for after getting a brief taste of the big leauges last season. This kid (LaRoche) is currently tearing it up for team USA and we are proud that him and Young are helping the US bring home a title..etc...

wwake me up when your done investigating you dummmmb shiittt

A pretty good comp for LaRoche (Bill James again) is Mike Lowell.

2008 Projections:

LaRoche: 268/356/455

Lowell: 283/346/455

I suppose they should just sign Lowell for 10illion a seasons or more since he's younger and cheaper and proven..(sarcasm)

After lots of thinking I am gonna say what I think we should do. I haven't completely formulated it yet but I am basically thinking now, that other than pitching we should do nothing. So yeah me and Cameron agree.

-A-rod has proven with three teams now that getting him does not mean a trip to the WS. Plus I don't like him. So I am back with Scott (and others) on this one.

-Jones, (like Schmidt last year before the season when I was worried) has to be looked at like, why on earth would the Braves not even try to bring him back. It's not just the money. If I criticized the Schmidt signing with that the reason why, I must do it with Jones.

So I am now thinking, Santana in a trade or other pitching via trade or nothing.

Oh and when I say what Coletti should say, I don't even care if he belives it or not....

jungar- I agree with you. Ned never has anything positive to say about the young guys. He should praise LaRoche and at least acknowledge that he is a top prospect capable of being the everyday third baseman for the Dodgers instead of saying "we have a hole at 3B that we need to fill".

I've got something for you Ned, "We have a hole at the GM position that needs to be filled".

jungar/cameron:

Don't forget about Ned hoping for Nomar to rebound and have a season like 2006. It's in the same article. Talk about myopia.

The man clearly doesn't know anything about baseball. It also proves that McCourt doesn't know anything about baseball either because he continues to let Ned say and do stupid things.

A Johan trade would require 3 top prospects/players ... think LaRoche, Kershaw, Kemp.

Well, Torre knows about baseball, so let's see how much Ned he can take before he tells Frankie.

If Ned gets fired at some point, we should try to jam Pierre into one of his suitcases on the way out.

i think Juan Pierre would fit in Ned's Purse.

http://www.tiny.cc/0CzJo

other than 2002 this is the first time I root for the Angels. And the only time I root for them over the dodgers. click link above..

"wow after his [Furcal's] first bad season in his career he's all of a sudden a 9 hitter? Whats with you people." - Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | November 13, 2007 10:28 AM

"A healthy Furcal is still one of the top leadoff hitters in the game." Posted by: cameronwalden24@yahoo.com | November 13, 2007 10:33 AM

=============================

I like Rafael Furcal and he can be an acceptable leadoff hitter, but he is not an elite one at a reasonable expectation of a .350 OBP. For a serious World Series contender, I'd wish for more than "averagish". Furcal would be a great #2 for the Dodgers if a certain CF was the leadoff hitter a certain GM thought he was. But only the most hopeless optimist thought that JP would recover to post a .370+ OBP, which had done only twice before (2001, 2004). (Wouldn't he be awesome hitting 9th for the Red Sox, wrapping around to Pedroia?) It's really too bad Rafael was robbed of what should have been one of his peak age seasons. At 30 next year he is still capable of producing a peak season and being a very attractive free agent.

NL Leadoff hitters* OBP 2007:

0.386 Ramirez FLA

0.375 Johnson ATL

0.374 Weeks MIL

0.367 Taveras COL

0.361 B.Giles SD

0.356 Eckstein STL

0.354 Reyes NY

0.351 McLouth PIT

0.344 Rollins PHI

0.337 Soriano CHI

0.333 Furcal LA

0.331 Roberts SF

0.308 Lopez WAS

0.308 Freel CIN

0.295 Young ARI (!)

0.285 Biggio HOU (ouch!)

* Player who batter 1st most often for that team

#1 slot NL overall, 2007 OBP: .341

2006 was a career year for Rafael Furcal:

Year Age Avg OBP Slg OPS+

2000 22 .295 .394 .382 97

2001 23 .275 .321 .370 77

2002 24 .275 .323 .387 85

2003 25 .292 .352 .443 105

2004 26 .279 .344 .414 95

2005 27 .284 .348 .429 102

2006 28 .300 .369 .445 107

2007 29 .270 .333 .355 76

Total xxx .284 .349 .407 94

"(Wouldn't he be awesome hitting 9th for the Red Sox, wrapping around to Pedroia?)"

he = Furcal

I agree with you Fogey. We paid 21 million for two players that combined for a .333 OBP at the top of our order last year and hit 60 combined extra base hits (6 homeruns)

Paying a slap hitter 14 million a year is ludicrous.

Colletti must really love those old Giants. They just hired another one. Rick Lembo, assistant trainer.

you beat me too it Pierre. Ned needs to stop this. We are the Dodgers!

I can't beleive the hatred toward Furcal after one bad injury plagued season. Yeah he's overpaid but when he's healthy he's the best leadoff man in our division. He was our best player in 2006. Now he's an overpaid slap hitter. Please.

"Paying a slap hitter 14 million a year is ludicrous." - Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | November 13, 2007 05:15 PM

Let the record show that it is NOT me that termed Rafael Furcal a slap hitter. He is a legimate dozen or so HR guy, which is more than a slap hitter. To be fair to Ned Colletti, he did sign Furcal for what should be three peak years, especially for a player at a key defensive position, ages 28-30. The ankle injury clearly hobbled Furcal for some time last year and probably messed up his mechanics for most/all of the season. 2006 was a jackpot for Furcal and Ned. I think it would be be reasonable to have expected a minimum line from Furcal, each season, of:

.285 .355 .435 .790 104

(where a 104 OPS+ is a wild guess for the actual value). Add in good SS defense, cannon arm with excellent range, maybe 3yrs/$39M isn't a huge stretch. And remember, the Dodgers were pretty desperate for **** at that point what with Cesar Izturis getting hurt and showing that he wouldn't be a hitter in the long run, and this was in the wake of a 71-91 season and the messy firings of Jim Tracy, then Paul DePodesta.

LOL - I was composing that before max_power's last comment showed up! I think "hatred" is far too strong a word for my mild criticisms. If we don't make major moves, he should bat leadoff for the Dodgers (not JP) and I hope he reverts back to a .360 OBP or better. But .345 shouldn't surprise us, and .355 is more likely.

Max and Fogey

1. I thought the contract was absurd before last year. Furcal is a good player and I am glad he is on our team..this isn't Pierre I am talking about here..but is he worth 14 million a season? I say NO. Thats all..

2. slap hitter is rough, I take it back, but line drive gap hitter, will that work for you? But in 8 seasons, more than 10 bombs only 4 times.

3. Furcal is not the best all around SS in baseball and never has been yet is paid the most out of any SS other than Jeter. On defense he can get to alot and his arm really is top notch but in 2 seasons with us, 46 errors. In the same time frame Rollins has made 22. Bat aside, Izzy was a much better SS IMO

4. Not a career .300 hitter, career OBP is below .350 avgs what 30 steals a season? His postseason numbers are .226 avg and .328OBP

Here are just 4 guys who are paid less than Furcal ..

Beltran

Puljos

Santana

Ichiro

So all in all yeah it's good to get him in his prime etc, and he is a solid all around player but I don't think he is one of the 20 best players in baseball and he is paid like one.

Don't we have enough troubles? Furcal had a bad year, because of the ankle. Why don't we leave it at that. We are supposevly looking for a 3rd baseman and we're worried about Pierre's arm. I think people are just looking for trouble.

Pierre you are right...I really should be clear that I like Furcal, think he is good and put no emphisis on last year..he was hurt and played hard all year thru pain..But like most of Colettis moves don't think he is worth his contract and that, more than anything specifically about furcal is what my issue is. It's a collective thing

all this talk of trading Kershaw, Bills, Kemp and Loney has me on edge...lol

"The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp. The Dodgers probably would balk at giving both Billingsley and Kershaw in the same deal because it would hurt the organization's pitching depth." 4 players from this group!?!?! ned just might be dumb enough to do it.

Maybe it should be you're dumb enough to believe he's dumb enough to do it. It's dumb all around! Seriously anybody who would do that deal should be fired on the spot. And the idea of it gives me heart palpitations. The Marlins are going for the jugular...good for them. Now stay away, which by the way I have to believe we will.

BTW, I didn't mean to insult you if it came off that way. There's just no way we would come close to taking any deal like that and I can't believe Ned would consider it. If I were the Marlins I'd ask for Broxton and Martin too.

Also, if I have a choice of Pierre/Kemp and Ethier. Pierre on the next train east to who care. This is in relation to potential Jones/Hunter signings. I stand by my stance that I believe Ethier is a very solid player and should not be dealt away especially if the choice is between Pierre and Ethier. So if we choose to go after a center fielder Pierre has to go for whatever we can get.

Must reading. This guy's got it right!

Los Angeles Dodgers

What They Should Do: Hold. Play. The. Kids. The Dodgers simply need to deploy their existing assets correctly, rather than seek help from elsewhere. To get a bit more specific about it, next year's lineup should look as follows:

SS Furcal

C Martin

1B Loney

2B Kent

LF Kemp

RF Ethier

3B LaRoche

CF Pierre

That group would be significantly better than league average at two positions (C, 2B), slightly better than league average at three positions (SS, LF and probably 1B), about league average in RF, and slightly below league average at CF and 3B (though not for long in LaRoche's case, especially with Nomar Garciaparra serving as his caddy). Overall it's one of the better position-player groups in the league. So then you take the money you're saving yourself on Luis Gonzalez and spend it on a mid-level starting pitcher to round out a rotation of Penny, Lowe, Schmidt and Chad Billingsley. Coupled with the great one-two punch in the bullpen, that's also an above-average group. That's it. You're done. You've spent next to nothing -- and you still have a potential pennant winner on your hands. It looks like about an 88-win core that can creep into the 90s if the veterans stay healthy.

What They Will Do: Strong Buy. There is no bigger disconnect in baseball than the Dodgers' ability to develop talent and the front office's lack of appreciation for that talent. Kemp is someone that they should be thrilled to have in their lineup for the next six years. LaRoche's time is now. So is Chin-Lung Hu's, and the Dodgers should consider trading Furcal to make way for him.

Instead, all rumors are that Ned Colletti's compass is pointed in the opposite direction. What I envision happening is something like the following: Kemp or LaRoche are included in a deal for a premium starting pitcher. And then -- guess what -- you do have a hole at LF or 3B, and you do need to work the free-agent market to repair it. But it isn't a hole that existed before; it's one that you've created. The behavior is literally almost pathological, a kind of Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, in which Colletti seems determined to make the Dodgers sick so that he can make them well again. Playing the kids -- these talented kids from your farm system that embody everything that used to be called the Dodger Way -- well, that's just too darn obvious.

If the Dodgers feel like they have to have a 94-win club instead of an 88-win club -- and there's no reason they should feel that way after drawing almost 4 million fans last year -- there are still a couple ways they could accomplish this. For instance, beat Curt Schilling's second-best offer by 30 percent, which probably means something like $18 million. By definition, you're overpaying, but the magnitude of the mistake is much, much smaller than trading Kershaw and Kemp for one year of Johan Santana, or signing Alex Rodriguez and permanently burying either LaRoche or Hu. Or, beat Torii Hunter's second-best offer by 10 percent, and see if you can't get someone else to eat most of Pierre's contract. Of course all this speculation may be premature; the Dodgers haven't done anything yet this winter but replace Grady Little with Joe Torre, which surely has to be considered an upgrade. But based on past performance this is not a club to which I'm willing to give

For full NL West Hot Stove Preview

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/31/bp.nlwest/index.html

Im not sure what Ned is thinking going after a FA CF... again. Instead of having one 5 year albatross contract he'll have two. Is Hunter worth 5/90M??? Is he really going to hit 30 Hrs the next 5 years? He's already 32 and is OBP is UGLY. Is Jones going to rebound enough to make him worth it as 3/55M or something like that Maybe not. How can he justify another huge contract like this? None of these guys are premier bats. The only one is ARod. Get ARod and spend ridiculously because he is elite or get no one. Seriously. Having two unmovable anchors in the outfield would be awful.

If Ned made a trade for Miggy with anyone of those players involved I will probably stop existing.

where there is smoke there is usually fire. Coletti can't get A-rod because he is really spendy... we need a middle of the order bat according to Coletti. It was his biggest failure last offseason and with Torre here now..I think Coletti at almost all costs will try to get that Bat...I sure hope not but thats my gut feeling.

Red-dog I feel exactly like that writer feels.