The bottom line on the baseline box seats…you'll dig it

At least that’s what the Daily News’ Tom Hoffarth says after he sat in the new seating section for a Sunday afternoon game…

 

656 Comments

What a nice article Josh. Maybe I’ll have to check it out :)
I love going to the stadium and I love how Vinny renamed the Left Field Pavilion: Manny-ville.
Gotta love Vinny!

Is there any chance of Charley Steiner being replaced, with say, Ross Porter?

JoJo And Phew©
Sung to Precious and Few by Climax.

JoJo and Phew are the couple that we just can’t bear.
Ned signing Phew in a panic when he lost Princess Drew.
And since he can’t throw the ball to home,
Runners score on flairs.
But JoJo loves Phew and sitting Andre just isn’t fair.

Juanpy, its you in my lineup, your ring puts you there.
Leading with you, opposing pitchers we don’t scare.
And if you can’t throw with your arm, JoJo really don’t care.
Cause JoJo and Phew often cause our Nelly despair.

And if the fans boo Phew at home, Joe says it isn’t fair.
Cause JoJo loves Phew, and he plays while the team is going nowhere.

JoJo and Phew are the couple that we just can’t bear.
Ned signing Phew, in a panic when he lost Princess Drew.
And since he can’t throw the ball to home.
Runners score on flairs.
But JoJo loves Phew, and sitting Andre just isn’t fair.

Thought this one might be appropriate for a replay!!

Good morning ITD boys and girls,
That JP article just makes me sick. If there is ONE thing that I hate is putting your own needs and desires over the team. It’s a team sport Juan! You’re a cancer in the clubhouse now and you should demand a trade. Even Ned will oblige you right now for that.

Amen CP!!!

so much to catch up. I posted this on the 80′s thread just now but it might not be read.

Lamm823,
I was also at the 80′s luncheon. The icing on the cake was the appearance of Gibby! He was friendly, funny. I love that he took time from his busy schedule to be there. I was also dissapointed that Fernando left at 3:PM. Rick Monday also had to prepare for the broadcast and he stayed until the end! Jaime and Pepe do the bulk of the broadcasting. Also Steve Sax did not stay signing until the end like the rest. Tommy looked tired but there he was signing until the end.
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I was the lady that told the story of how Bobby Welch became one of my favorite players and that also ask Monday where had he been in the last few days as I’ve been hearing Charlie and Lyon on the radio broadcasting (from the 4th inning on as our Vin does the first three innings). Also I asked Dr. Steinberng how could I attend the Women’s baseball clinic and the 90′s luncheon when both are scheduled the same day (8/16). My brother said I asked too many questions. I was a little nervous. haha.
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Great event! love it!! I still don’t think is possible to attend both events on 8/16 so I’ll skip the 90′s luncheon and go to the Women’s baseball clinic. I’ve gone to the 60′s 70′s and 80′s luncheons.
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Nice replay jhall!!! We needed that ~ an oldie but a goodie!!!!
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Hey CP!! How is it going? Yes, it seems like Juan is showing his true colors once again. I however, am so impressed with Andre and how he is doing with all of this. He really needs to be commended for his “good” attitude.

jhall – I just have such a hard time with ANYONE saying stupid stuff like that. Wouldn’t it be really nice if everyone else (especially the other 4 outfielders; even Druw) marched to Ned’s office and told him in so many words that JP must go!!!

nelly, without scanning through all the old threads, can you fill me in on the Ethier meet and sign trip?

CP, I get the feeling he is wearing out his welcome!!!

Hey there dnel – Say hi to your mom for me! I’m still so thrilled that we got a chance to meet!!! :) I’m starting to podcast sermon messages for my church, so that’s why I’m on the computer now. But once I’m done with that, I’ll be back in my painting mode again.

Andre is acting like a saint right now. Yesterday I saw the reply of Andre’s Before the Bigs. He’s been through so much in his life, what with his mom and dad getting divorced when he was so young. But it seems that those early trials have made him an even stronger human being now; what with all of the jerking around and now not even playing. He’s got a great head on his shoulders (and no boys, I’m not just talking about his good looks). I’m very impressed with him. Andre is a consummate professional at the ripe age of 25!

Grow up JP or demand a trade!

Josh~ great article!!!!! Thanks!!!!
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BTW Josh – Is it possible to get copies of the “Before the Bigs” series? I am not from so-cal, and I would love to see them. Can you look into a way for non-So-Cal residents to get copies. I really want to see Andre’s plus there are a few others I would like to see as well. Thanks for all you do for this ITD board :)

jhall – yeah, one can only hope that he’s wearing out his welcome…

How the Manny trade went down

When the Red Sox originally offered Manny Ramirez in trade to the other 29 teams, they went 0 for 29. Red Sox GM Theo Epstein made tens of calls and found no takers.

Things were looking bleak. Ramirez was apparently being viewed as an active, goofier version of Barry Bonds, an unwanted alltime great. At that point it appeared that the increasingly uneasy, unhappy marriage of the Red Sox and Ramirez might have to stay together for what would have been a messy final two to three months.

Then someone within baseball’s best front office had an idea. The Red Sox, who had grown weary of Ramirez’s antics and attitude and badly wanted him out of their clubhouse, decided to enhance their offer. When Epstein made his next round of calls, he was now offering to pay the remainder of Ramirez’s $20 million 2008 salary. It was an unusual and unprecedented $7 million incentive for such a productive and vital player.

Despite that, only three teams showed even a modicum of interest: the Dodgers, Phillies and Marlins.

Ramirez, who never felt completely comfortable in baseball-crazed Boston’s fishbowl existence, set the stage for a trade by signing an agreement in advance to go to whatever team agreed to drop his two $20 million club options, for 2009 and ’10. Yet the field for a deal was oddly small.

Only three teams wanted him, and as it turns out only one of those three was willing to return enough to Boston to make it work. It didn’t hurt that the one team happy to do the deal was run by a Bostonian, Frank McCourt, who makes it a hobby to collect ex-Red Sox players for his Dodgers. Sources say McCourt was extremely involved in this trade, and that he in fact was the driving force behind it, no surprise since he previously added ex-Red Sox Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Lowe, Bill Mueller and Grady Little.

But word was going around baseball that McCourt’s Dodgers were difficult to deal with, that McCourt pulled back a trade for CC Sabathia, that the Dodgers had too many chiefs running the team and that they were too protective of every last youngster. One of many anti-Dodger columns was written here. But the Dodgers ultimately would prove me, as well as several others, wrong.

And by the way, it’s a misconception that any team other than the Dodgers, Phillies and Marlins ever showed any interest. Neither the Mets nor anyone else wanted to deal.

As was presumably the case for many other teams, sources say that the Mets didn’t want to risk bringing Ramirez and all his baggage into their clubhouse. But strangely, after the Mets had stood pat at the deadline, GM Omar Minaya suggested on a conference call that the reason they couldn’t make a deal for Ramirez was that Boston had requested a big-league outfielder back. That claim must have come from Minaya’s very vivid imagination and appears to have been an attempt to cover for the Mets or possibly refrain from exposing their true feelings about a Ramirez trade. In reality the Red Sox had called the Mets and were told no, and that was the end of that.

As we know now, the Dodgers ultimately didn’t have to give up a big-league outfielder (or any sort of outfielder), and they still managed to get the deal done. It took until 3:59 p.m. ET on Thursday, one minute before the deadline, but the deal got done, and it enhanced the Dodgers’ pennant hopes, relieved the Red Sox of their problem child and continued the rebuilding process for the depleted Pirates.

Red Sox people decided early on that the outfielder the Red Sox needed to get all along was coming from Pittsburgh. That was Jason Bay, a solid two-time All-Star. Boston realized early in the game that Bay was their best hope, and perhaps their only hope, to replace Ramirez’s bat in their lineup. There may have been early flirtations with Atlanta regarding Mark Teixeira and Colorado about Matt Holliday, but those two superstars would have cost them way too much in terms of prospects and major leaguers.

Bay isn’t nearly the same hitter as Ramirez, but he was as close as Epstein could come in this trade market. And what’s more, Bay’s reasonable contract ran another year for a well-under-market $7.5 million (he’s probably worth twice that, making Boston feel better about paying the remainder of Ramirez’s 2008 salary). So for giving away two months of a disgruntled Ramirez, Epstein got back at least eight months of a committed and eager Bay. That was something he could live with.

But, in order to get Bay, Epstein would have to get what Pittsburgh sought. He had three chances to do it: the Dodgers, Phillies and Marlins.

The Red Sox agreed to send Pittsburgh reliever Craig Hansen, a potential closer, and solid young outfielder Brandon Moss. Then they went looking for the rest of the package.

Several days before the deadline the Red Sox first requested Matt Kemp from Los Angeles, a seemingly reasonable proposition considering that the ultra-talented Kemp was known to be frustrating some of his bosses, including manager Joe Torre, with his inconsistent play and baffling baserunning.

The Dodgers said no.

The Red Sox lowered their request to a combination of young outfielder Andre Ethier and third-base prospect Andy LaRoche. Considering L.A.’s excess of outfielders and LaRoche’s falling stock, that seemed more reasonable.

The Dodgers still said no.

The Dodgers still were showing interest early in the week. But by Wednesday the Red Sox turned their attention to the Phillies and Marlins, leaving L.A. wondering whether it was now out.

The Phillies were a team said to excite Ramirez. They have a great lineup and an even better ballpark for him to put up big second-half numbers and enhance his free-agent value. The Phillies had interest but were apparently offering even less than L.A. They may have had concerns about how Ramirez would fit into the same outfield with Pat Burrell.

The low-budget Marlins were up next. They appeared to be sensing a kill, so they tried for a killer deal. Jeremy Hermida was one name talked about. Gaby Hernandez was another, but Hernandez went to Seattle for reliever Arthur Rhodes.

Slugging outfield prospect Mike Stanton would not be included by the Marlins. Other decent prospects would not be included either. Plus the Marlins wanted Boston to not only pay Ramirez’s $7 million salary but also to ship them $2 million more to cover the draft choices they’d get when they let Ramirez leave as a free agent after the year. So in other words Florida wanted Boston to pay for three of its players for accepting the Cooperstown-bound Ramirez.

A lot of possible scenarios were discussed for days with Florida. But there never was an agreement on players and dollars.

The Marlins “overplayed their hand,” in the words of one person familiar with the dealings.

So sometime on deadline day the Red Sox went back to the Dodgers. At that point some Red Sox people remained skeptical that the Dodgers would relent or ever be reasonable. There were different points on deadline day where they began to doubt that they would trade the player they were determined to trade.

The Red Sox requested struggling shortstop prospect Chin-lung Hu (.159 average in 107 major league at-bats this season) but were told that he was on L.A.’s untouchable list. At that point Boston people understandably began to wonder whether the Dodgers would be any easier to deal with than Florida.

The Pirates were also driving a hard bargain. Their new GM, Neal Huntington, had gotten slammed in the media for his Yankees deal involving Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte (in baseball circles it was somewhat better received), and the Red Sox sensed that Huntington was determined to get a haul for Bay.

At one point, after the haggling with the Marlins and Dodgers appeared to be going nowhere, the Red Sox became frustrated enough to talk to Ramirez’s agent, Scott Boras, about the viability of keeping Manny. Boras told them what they suspected all along, that he’d be much happier to stay if the option years were dropped. That appeared to have reinforced Boston’s long-understood belief that Ramirez was too distracted by the contract to perform for them.

Boston’s players and staff showed no real interest in keeping Manny around, anyway. One landmark moment came when Ramirez complained of knee pain but couldn’t recall which knee was hurting him. Red Sox doctors had to take the unusual step of evaluating both the right and left knee in an MRI exam. Neither showed any damage, furthering Boston’s suspicion that Ramirez’s real problem wasn’t physical.

Eventually, Boston got L.A. to agree to sign off on LaRoche, one player that the Pirates sought. (They already had LaRoche’s brother Adam.) But the Pirates wanted more. They gave a list of names to the Red Sox to present to the Dodgers.

With the clock ticking (it was actually 3:59 by this point), the Dodgers agreed to pick one of those names, Class-A pitcher Bryan Morris, and include him with LaRoche. The deal was done, and Manny was a Dodger. The Dodgers agreed to pay a $1 million bonus to Ramirez as stipulated in the $160-million Red Sox contract that he grew to hate (technically, it was now called a roster bonus instead of an assignment bonus).

But that money was made up by the Dodgers within hours. Thirty thousand walkup tickets were sold within 24 hours of the trade, and 300 rest-of-season tickets were sold. Manny Mania was taking off in L.A.

The Red Sox were determined to move Ramirez once he showed that his main interest was getting the $20 million club options removed. Epstein’s big goal was to get a reasonable replacement, that being Bay, and he did that. But there wasn’t real celebrating in Boston. They didn’t want to have to trade Ramirez; rather they felt they had to.

The Red Sox did well to get seven-plus years out of Ramirez, along with two World Series rings, then replace him with a reasonable player. Ramirez is a big loss to the defending World Series champions. But no one inside their clubhouse voiced one word of objection to the deal. Bay was welcomed in, and Boston went back to business, sweeping the A’s at home over the weekend with Bay off to a fast start playing his first meaningful games in his new, tough town.

Eventually, Ramirez left the Red Sox little choice through his self-centered actions and words over the past few weeks. The celebrating was being done in Los Angeles, where the Dodgers capitalized on Boston’s misfortune. Now Ramirez is threatening to lead an L.A. revival. He has begun with eight hits, including two homers, in his first 13 at-bats. The game is easy for him when he’s trying.

More celebrating was being done by Ramirez, whose misbehavior will probably make him millions. Ramirez was thrilled to be in more laid-back L.A., dreaming of free agency to come.
Around the Majors

• The Dodgers already had a glut of outfielders, and now it’s a bigger glut. They were already looking for takers for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones (the dreadful Jones would need to be accompanied by a hitting instructor), and their search can continue because both are certain to clear waivers. In either case the Dodgers would have to eat a lot more money than Boston did with Ramirez.

Dnel,
It was great meeting you & mom. I can now put a face to your postings! I love that she had her nails painted Dodger blue! Wanted to go see you on Sunday but I was with my little nieces (9 & 5). We sat in the field level and it was so hot that I kept taking little breaks taking them up to the shade and then coming back to our seats. They were so happy with their bear. They did not know they were getting one. I love your story with the Chad _the 10 year old. I, like you don’t mind being interrupted by kids who want to know about the game or players.
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Is funny how you met my friends Erik and Lorena before meeting me. I had talked to both about how you would also be at the event with your mom. I met Lore a couple of years ago when both of us started getting season tickets. She used to post in the Dodger fan forum and when the WIN events started happening, I was asking who was going to be there. The first event was in the club house restaurant. With only women at the event, it was going to be hard finding her (dont’ know why we did not share phone numbers.) so I put my hand up to ask a question and then I also asked who from there posted on the fan forum. She put her hand up so that is how I found her. Afterwards we noticed that we both sat in the same section. We have since then gone to Petco Park and we both went together to At&T when the Dodgers clinched the wild Card. What a great time we had then celebrating in Gnat territory!

Scott ~ I was one of the early birds. My mom and I were there at 8:30 and we were not the first ones there. Mind you, Andre wasn’t supposed to be there until noon. By 11:00 there were two enormous lines (I am not sure of the number, but CP might be better at the appoximate # of people in line). I did take a picture of the line, so I will try and get posted somehow (maybe through eric’s Dodger Lyrics). Anyhow, he drove himself to the event in a Ford expedition/excursion – not sure which, and he was late because he couldn’t find parking, but then there ended up being a parking spot right up front. I was one of the first 15 or so in line because you had to have an AT&T wireless plan and I did, plus the background of my phone has a picture of Andre.
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This is TMI for you I’m sure, but to say the man is handsome would be an understatement. Andre is outright gorgeous to say the least. I haven’t seen him in person without the uniform on and with his hair done other than in pictures. The pictures don’t do him justice.
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I got up there, and it was very quick. I did tell him I am a blogger both on ITD and his blog. He asked me how I liked his, and I said “It’s wonderful”and I comment on there frequently. He said”thank you” and “I should be coming out with another entry shortly.” He seems very quiet just like I expected.
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After getting my Teddy bear signed, I found CP in line and I got back in line to get something signed for her mom. I was a rule-breaker and snuck back in line so I got to see him twice, officially. I also met acardona and some of crzblue’s friends.

The Red Sox requested struggling shortstop prospect Chin-lung Hu (.159 average in 107 major league at-bats this season) but were told that he was on L.A.’s untouchable list.

The Dodgers already had a glut of outfielders, and now it’s a bigger glut. They were already looking for takers for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones

That’s good stuff there.

Its amazing that people actually think/believe that Phew is in the same class with Andre as a player. If he were even close at least there would be some interest in him from other teams. No one wants him even if we eat most of his salary. His former teams were more than happy to let him walk and are happy they did. On the other hand, we can trade Andre in a heartbeat. Most every team is interested in him. Coincidence, I think not!!!!

Phew just bites!! Plain and simple. And JoKos’ continuing vet crush on him just makes it more nauseating.

jhall, I can’t believe how much we think alike. Do you think we are related? I swear you must be my twin!

LOL Tru!! Merci. Could be. I take that as a huge complement.

Thanks nelly! If Ethier isn’t playing, how am I going to get my wife to watch!!! She’s somewhat interested since Manny joined at least!

you guys are on the bashing Pierre wave length today.
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my poor little Juan.
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I am still sad that I couldn’t come out to see you CP, Dnell, and TruBlue44!!!

jhall, believe me, it is a compliment. Like, you I sometimes get so frustrated with the way Torre puts out a line-up or doesn’t seem to call for a bunt when necessary. However, maybe there is a plan up his sleeve that we are not aware of, who knows, things may change by the time we get home from this road trip. Do you ever wonder what it’s like on the team plane — does JP sit in a corner all alone and, what in the world does Andruw do, with nobody to talk to.

trublue44 ~It might explain why jhall and I think alike too – LOL!!! Does that mean eric and enchanted are related, too? – LOL!!!! Who knew? LOL!!!

dnelly, I think eric and enchanted must be related. It’s amazing how great minds think alike! LOL

LOL!!! jhall ~ we must be related because that’s all we talked about on the way home and we were busting up thinking Sweeney and Jones sitting together talking about their woes and JP sitting in his own corner talking to himself about his woes. We also came up with some things Andre thinks or says while standing against the rail all night. LOL!!!!!

crzblue ~ It was a pleasure meeting you, and to know I was standing next to eric the entire time was funny. We had even stumbled over each other a few times moving in and out of line, and moving for other people.

did anyone post ridiculous juan pierre quotes about how this season has been SO hard for him?? andre loses his job and only says things about being a team player and doing what it takes to win.. and joe tells pierre he’s going to be the everyday outfielder and he’s complaining??

here’s a link:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/dodgers/ci_10089041

what a selfish punk =P
poor andre~

Dnelly & I came up with a great marketing idea — a new jersey with the title Andruw being Sweeney – with the #0

sara ~ it’s been the topic of the day – LOL!!!

dnel – I’ve never been good at estimating numbers (like those in line to see Andre) but I’ve gotta believe that there were at least 400 to 500 people there, probably more.

CP – I was thinking 500+ and the line was just as long when we left so how many had gone through before we left. Maybe Josh knows that information, too.

LOL Sara!!! Selfish Punk pretty much sums it up.
Great idea Tru. I would put the number at -2 however.

I can picture JP playing the spoons for mid flight entertainment. I wonder why it is when JP grounds to first or “flys” out to LF, the announcers don’t say “That’s just Juan being Juan”?

jhall, -2 IS the perfect number! I bet we’d sell almost as many of those as they are selling Manny’s, thousands.

LOL!!!
Obviously Phew is not very bright either or he would not have made those statements, even though it is the way he feels and truely is.

Hey ITD, I tried to get on over the weekend but my computer wouldn’t let me.

I have to say, I always thought Slappy was a good guy and I felt bad for wanting him to sit on the bench so Andre could play. But after reading what he has said, I can only say one thing……. What a scumbag!!!! I hope he reinjures his knee and is out the rest of the season (I am very sorry Amy I know you like him) but growing up playing sports and now managing baseball teams I have to say that was the most self centered quote. He does not deserve to wear a Dodger uniform. I don’t care who it was. If Tommy Lasorda said something like that I would say the same thing.

Slappy McPopup is UNACCEPTABLE (thanks Jhall)

Well said JNV. It is unacceptable. It is good that people can now see Phew’s true colors!!!! Baby crap yellowish-brown.

In honor of Juan’s unselfish team spirit, Harry Chapin – Taxi:

JUAN P
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I was battin’ lead ‘gainst ‘Zona, I needed just one hit to make my night,
A man named Joe waved to flag me down, said you’re in center tonight.
They’re disrespecting me – I am Juan P, it’s a shame I have to stress ev’ry day
Joe said bear with me Juany, you’ll be the one that plays.
Something about it was familiar, I could swear I’d played out there before,
And Joe say you’d better start arakin’, and he didn’t say anything more.
It took awhile cuz I hit me a dribbler, then got lucky they flashed hit by my name
A smile seemed to come over JoJo, I’d gotten my hit for the game.
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And Joe said how are ya Juanpy? Sure glad you’re Dodger blue
Through the too many outs and the too frequent pouts, they’ll sure remember Phew.
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It was somewhere ‘bout five years ago, I used to hit me three zero five
Then I learned we got Manny and thought I’d be back on the bench, but with old man Joe I still thrive.
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You see I’m going to still be the lead man, so that our offense can fly.
But my OBPs is way abysmal, and so no one can understand why.
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Whoa I’ve got somethin’ inside me, That makes Joe Torre blind
There’s a whine man that’s cryin’ in me, I’m speakin’ my mind
Whoa I’ve got somethin’ inside me, not what my teams about
‘Cause I’ve been letting my feelings fly, letting my insides out
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(Yes, he’s whining, afraid he’s out)
(Why is it Juan’s always crying)
(And Joe’s lying, to us all.)
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There’s so much more for me to whine about, whatever I had once was gone
So I turn myself towards the reporters, I am what I am, I’m still Juan.
And I said I’ll get it together, but I knew there’d never come the day
But I still got me Franky’s millions for a two-fify year
I said frankly, you’ll all pay.
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Well another team might’ve been angry, and another team might’ve been hurt
But another team never would’ve signed me, so pardon me if I’m curt.
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And he walked away in silence, it’s strange, how you never know
But Frank just’d gotten what we’d asked for, just a year or two ago
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You see he was going to be the lead man, so that our offense could fly.
But his OBPs is way too abysmal, and no one can understand why.
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And here he’s acting crappy, inside the club house walls
And the team is takin’ it a backseat, gettin’ ripped, takin’ falls
Juan goes mouthin’ off, with his gall…

I’m just not going to say anything. I feel like I have some good points, but I feel that I am not able to share them.

jnv, I agree with you about the injury to JP. In fact, when we were at the game we were hoping he would trip while doing his little sprints and injure himself.

jhall, Now the question is will anyone (JOJO, Nerd or McCourt) lay into him for being selfish or will they sweep it under the rug??? Because we know if one of the “kids” said something like that the would be on the way to Las Vegas.

jnv – my sentiments exactly,but I have thought that all along, and I knew eventually it would catch up to him once again. However, I guess it will only really catch up to him if he rides the pine for a few weeks. It’s good to see you on here today!!

Amy- Like I said, I am sorry because I like you and I know you are a JP fan. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I just can not accept someone on a team sport being selfish. I will gladly listen to anything you have to say about JP, I can’t promise I will agree, but I will listen…. :-)

Hey Dnel,
I would be on more if my computer at home wouldn’t kick me off everytime I try and get on this blog. :-)
I am glad you got to meet Andre, and you got to see a couple of good games to boot!!!

enchanted!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE!!!

Well said jnv! I think that goes for all of us on here Amy.

Fabulous Beav!!! One of my favorite songs. LMAO!!!!
Sorry Amy, actually Phew running his yap and showing his true self really put you and his few supporters in a more untenable position. That and the plain fact, that he is simply not getting the job done.

amy – I like you; I really do. And you must understand that JP’s words are hurtful. And I must say even if Andre was saying these exact words, I’d have a problem with that. Baseball is a team sport; and a team needs to be filled with team players. If someone is not a team player, well, I’m not gonna be mean, but that is just wrong. Again, I don’t care who is saying it.

Amy ~ you are one of the favorites around here, and as much as I am not a Pierre fan, I do like hearing what you have to say. It’s probably harder on some of us because we feel the other guy should be playing, and these articles make it even harder to see Andre on the bench. I really don’t think these articles will change Torre’s mind about the lineup ~JP will still start, and I am learning to live with it. I am just thankful that Andre said all the right things,and for that I am very proud of him. Then again, if you are making $ 8 mill a year, I guess it gives you the right to say what you want. Andre doesn’t have the luxury yet, I guess.

Here is a video of Gibson’s talk at the 80′s luncheon:

Or here is the non embedded link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6954049212758713502&hl=en

I’ll probably put it on tomorrow’s thread too, but I figured it wouldn’t hurt to post it now as well, with the day off tomorrow, I’m not sure if Josh will be posting, and it’s something everyone should be able to see.

Here is a video I took of Gibson’s talk at the 80′s luncheon:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6954049212758713502&hl=en

No clue how that jumped in there twice…

Well said CP. If Andre had made those statements I would have the same reaction. Amy, we certainly value your opinions, comments, and loyalty. After those comments, Phew does not warrant a fan like you.

well, I’ve gotta get to painting. I’ll catch up with y’all later…

Nelly, sorry, but when your making $8M a year and supposed to be such a hard worker and team guy, it gives you less right to say those things.

Happy painting CP!!! and we really do think alike – LOL!!

Happy Painting CP!!!! Catch you later.

i just think it’s funny cause if some one writes an article putting someone we ‘like’ in a bad light we excuse it saying “it was just the writer saying untrue things about our player” and so on.
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But when an article is written about someone you ‘don’t like’ we jump all over it and say “oh, yea he’s a terrible person”.
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I’ve personally read articles that have praised JP about sitting on the bench like a man and for helping the team.
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I think we read these articles and take words into what we want them to mean.
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I know you like me. I like you guys too. But I really don’t think JP’s a bad guy and those quotes were truthful. Andre thinks them too most likely.
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Sorry. I really don’t want to defend him anymore. I will stay out of the convo.

Amy, you’re the best! Just look the other way for a little bit! Just like Joe Torre.

clarification: not leaving the blog. just not partaking in JP convos! It kinda hurts me. I really like him.
thanks all.
love you :)

Unfortunately, this was not a reporter piecing things together to get the outcome they wanted. These are direct quotes. Stick with the Bison Amy!!!!

I know, jhall ~ How can a player complain about playing time when he is the one out there everyday? I try not to let it frustrate me but it does. This move is so unjustfiable on so many levels, it’s ridiculous!! Like trublue44 said, there better be some masterplan behind all this playing time JP is getting because what is happening to Andre is just simply wrong. I was so happy to see Matt get his 12th homerun yesterday, but at the same time, Andre could have gotten his 12th yesterday too. That’s what has got to be frustrating for him, if nothing else, because he knows he can help the team by the way he approaches the plate and plays the field much better than JP can, and I commend him for taking this situation and turning it into a positive. It makes me even more of a fan, if that’s possible – LOL!!

That makes it even more unacceptable Nelly. Heck, JoKo hasn’t even benched him yet. What a baffoon!!!

Slappy does not deserve to wear Dodger Blue. I can’t believe the polar opposite views being expressed by JP and Andre. And it’s JP that is playing. Absolutely unbelievable. Hats off to you Andre, I hope circumstances play out allowing you to replace Slappy at some point before the season is over.

In defense of Juan, I honestly don’t think he gets it. He’s blind to his own faults (like many of us), and he thinks one-dimensionally.
.
That said, in a psychological sense I believe its because he’s self-centered and thinks of the world as how it effects him. I’ll give him one thing – he does have pride enough to want to earn some of his millions (though I’m sure in his mind getting on once a game is “earning” it because that’s about all he’s ever been able to do), but by any objective criteria, he just doesn’t have the skillset Andre has to do that, and is just slightly above equal with ‘Druw.

Yep Beav, and perhaps he doesn’t give a duck anymore and wants to punch his ticket out of here.

Amy ~ We know Andre’s thinking it, but he is not saying it. That is the difference. I have no doubt Andre is frustated enough to punch a wall right now – I would be too, but he knows how to play the game and he is keeping his mouth shut. I have seen many articles written about Andre where they say he is “moody.” Well who wouldn’t be moody after what he’s been through the past two years. I get moody just looking at the lineup much less having to live with it. Even if he is moody, he’s not showing it on the field, on the rail (lately), and certainly not to reporters. He is doing what he is supposed to do – act like a professional baseball player who cares about his team, and I really think he does care about this team. Just look at pictures. How many group pictures do we see Andre in compared to JP. I have yet to see JP in a picture as a group of players just having fun – why? because he is sitting in his corner of the dugout sulking because he might be benched someday.

Well said Nelly. Also, Andre knows his baseball career is bright and in front of him. Phew is probably waking up to the reality that his glory days are behind him and he is on the way out.

dnelly, i realize now that it has been the topic of the day! i didn’t read anything before i posted that.. i had just gotten to a computer.. and i was so angry when i read those quotes, the first thing i did was post them.. the thing is, we all posted different articles.. so there’s not a chance it was one writer’s take or manipulated. he said it to a crowd of reporters and they all took away the same message. that’s BAD..

amy, i’m sorry. i know you’ve always had trouble trying to defend pierre when most of us are SO negative about him.. but did you read the quotes? even you, as a juan pierre fan, would have to see the selfishness of it? it has to at least make you think twice, or a little less about the good of him? i’m not just saying negative things because pierre said it.. it wouldn’t matter who said it. i would say it was selfish no matter who’s mouth it came from..

Amy- One more thing…. I think you are great for not wavering on your stance, Some lessor people would have handled these conversation differently and or given up on JP. I think it was Enchanted that said JP doesn’t deserve a fan like you. But I think he is lucky to have a fan like you, just like Andre is lucky to have fans like Dnel, Cpomp, trublu, etc…. Keep it up!! :-)

one more thought.. if this is pierre’s reaction to playing everyday, then it’d be crazy to see what would happen if he was benched for a few days! i think torre should bench him so that we can see.. i would imagine it would be entertaining.. maybe he’ll ask to be traded, and maybe we’ll be oblige his desires.. one can only hope..

jnv – very well said
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sara – the fact that this came from many different sources makes it more believeable and definitely more unacceptable because he said it in front of many and not just one person.

oh, and someone said earlier that they wondered why we’d move JP over to left as a defensive replacement for manram.. that wasn’t why joe did it. apparently, manram had to hustle off to go check out of his hotel before the road trip so he was already showered and leaving by the time the game was over..

I guess what’s the most difficult to understand, is that he’s whining about he “might” get benched, not that he is; and that he’s back playing center. Well crap, he whined in the spring because he was playing left and not center, and he’s still starting in the outfield. That just smacks of malcontent and bitchin’ to be bitchin’. Let’s face it, there is a double standard. If you’re malcontent and producing it gets swept under the rug. If you’re malcontent and putting up abysmal numbers, you’re going to get called out for it.

Not only that, but its his sense of entitlement. Notice he didn’t say if Dre started hitting he’d be back on the bench. It was if DRUW starts hitting he’ll be back on the bench. To him Dre isn’t even in the equation. Don’t know if that’s his own personal “eliteness” thinking or if its something he was told by JoJo (which I wouldn’t doubt either.) Either way, its wrong.

i have to say that i believe this road trip is coming at a very opportune time. this weekend was crazy, and i think the boys could use a little breather from the madness.. whether it is a good distraction, or a not so good distraction, it is a distraction nonetheless.. and now they can go on the road and just play baseball..

yeah enchanted, i thought the same thing.. it’s like andre could never unseat him from his throne.. only andruw could.. since he gets paid big bucks too.. ugh..

josh, thanks for posting that link. it was a great read. i was lucky enough to sit in the baseline boxes earlier this season.. it was definitely a worthwhile experience..

Anyone who thinks Pierre “knows how to lead off” as Joe Torre put it, all you have to do is click on ESPN’s split stats for Pierre and scroll down to his stats by place in the batting order. Matt Kemp, by the way has a .402 OBP in the lead off spot, although anywhere he’s gotten a decent amount of at bat’s, he’s put up great numbers. To even think that he was platooned early in the year is atrocious.

“They’re sticking it to me this year for whatever reason.”

Juan, if you’re talking about your team, then you’re brain dead. If you’re talking about fans, then you have 20/20 vision. And I will continue “sticking it to you” as long as your remain a me-me-me Dodger. You should be on your knees kissing the Dodger logo every time you go to home plate and every time you go to the bank.

amen, brother!

Yep Kahli, Phew ought to have tattoos of Ned and Joko on each butt cheek.

LOL!!!! Well said Kahli!!!

Now we know what Juan does when he gets to the ballpark 10 hours before a game – sits and broods.

LOL!!! ~enchanted

enchanted, Juan certainly doesn’t practice throwing & hitting, so you must be right!

Juan’s lucky they went out on the road when this story broke – it’ll give the fans a week to forget, though I surmize that he’ll start hearing an ever increasing chorus of boos, especially if he doesn’t produce any better than he has been.

I still think if you’re not inclined to boo a player at the game that one could start the chant, “We want Andre” whenever Juan comes to bat.

Hey scott – do you have your Top 10 list handy? Some of the new people on the board might want to see it. It still makes me laugh just thinking about it. If not, I can get it off Dodger Lyrics for you.

nevermind scott – thanks!!! LMAO!!!!

enchanted – I think that would be far more effective than booing. I thought of that sitting there this weekend if 51,000 people were to chant “We want Andre,” instead of booing Andruw and Sweeney. They don’t do anything when JP comes up, which in some ways is even sadder than the booing because it means the fans (most fans) don’t care.

That is classic scott!!! Still makes me LMAO!!

Good point, enchanted. I’d boo his spoiled little a** in a heartbeat. Juan, here’s to you, a tiny piece by way of Mr. Bacharach…

Whats it all about, Slappy?
Is it just for the line-up we live?
Whats it all about when you sort it out, Slappy?
Are we meant to take more than we give?

“Hello, mama?”
“Yes, Juanpy?”
“Mama, they moved me from CF to LF….DURING THE GAME!!”
“WHAT?!”
“That’s right, mama. They’re sticking it to me this year.”
“Why, those bastages!”
“You tell them that mama is not happy!”
“I did, mama, but I’m worried now that I might not start EVERY game the rest of the season!”
“Now listen here, Juanpy. You tell them that if they don’t start you every game, you’re gonna go home ans stay with your mama!”

Kahli – Burt Backache’s Alfie!! good Juan!!

Scott – we could only hope!! LOL

I think we all know where we’d like to stick Juan…

Hey Joe, got a minute?

Another article with some good lines about JP:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/08/04/juan-pierre-theyre-sticking-it-to-me/

thanks for the support guys. When it comes down to it, this team and these guys make me happy. Yes, the treatment and fairness of management is important and I don’t want to see any of them upset or mistreated. honestly. Bottom line they make me happy and I love each one for that. We just Pierre through different eyes. To me he does no wrong, to you all he does everything wrong. oh well.
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and yes, not worries I will stick with the bison :) he is a cutie with so much talent :)

Like I said before Amy, Phew doesn’t deserve a fan like you after those statements. Your a Bison Girl!!!!

Great articles Scott!! LMAo!!!

scott – Great article! ~ This is really sad that Torre doesn’t see the obvious that most everyone sees. The quote about him being Juan Pierre in this jersey speaks volumes to me because many people on this board have been accused of not caring about the name on the front of the jersey, only the names on the back. Well, why should I, the fan, have to care about all the players who represent the Dodgers when the player on the back of the jersey doesn’t care about the name on the front ethier (either)

Juan Pierre doesn’t deserve to wear Dodger Blue. Thank God we got him out of left field! He would have been the first everyday left fielder in over 90 years to go a whole season without hitting a home run. Get this bum out of here. Obviously he’s not excited about the team getting better. Give him the rest of his money or even more if we have to and get him out of here. He’s a cancer in the clubhouse and in the lineup. We will never play our best baseball as long as Juan Pierre is on this team.

I gotta love Juan:

“Everyone knows I’m not selfish…”

“They’re sticking it to me this year…”

What a jerk! I used to not like this guy for his defensive issues and lack of any kind of power, even Furcal type power, but he was a nice guy. Now I don’t like him for the type of person he appears to be, which is selfish, feeling that they are “sticking it to him”. What a load of garbage! We don’t need “nice guys” of his caliber. GET RID OF PIERRE!

If Juan Pierre gave us the best chance to win, then I’d be all for him, but he doesn’t. It’s never personal until they pull this delusional self loving crap. Now it’s personal, big time. Get lost Juan Pierre, you selfish undeserving pig!

jhall- viva el bison! lol. thanks :) btw, did you ever write me that bison song??

Sorry, Amy, I wasn’t being very nice, but if Kemp wasn’t totally tearing it up, it could be him sitting instead of Andre. What would your future kids think?

O youa bada peoples not liking my leetle Juanapy.

Mr. Naid!! Mr. Naid!!

Nowa where isa dat leetle mustachioda mamas boya??

PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***
PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***PLAY ANDRE ETHIER***

I’ve got every reason on earth to be mad,
‘Cause I’ve just lost the only job I had.
If I could get my way,
I’d get Manny locked up today,
But I can’t so I cry instead.

I’ve got a chip on my shoulder that’s bigger than my feet,
I can’t talk to teammates that I meet.
If I could see Jones now,
I’d try to make him sad somehow,
But I can’t so I cry instead.

Don’t want to cry unless media’s there,
I get mad like a butt with a hair,
Can’t hide myself away, ay hay,
Stupid Joe plays me day after day.

And if he don’t you’d better hide Kemp and ‘Dre,
‘Cause I’m gonna break their arms if I can’t play.
Yes, I’m gonna break ‘em in two,
And show you what your pouty man can do,
Until then I’ll cry instead.

Still working on it Amy. Haven’t forgotten. Been pretty busy around here the last few weeks.

Yeah Scott, It has never been personal with my preference of NEVER playing Juan Pierre. Like you said he just made it personal by putting his wants and needs over the teams. He needs to be gone. When he clears waivers, you are going to clear waivers Juan because you suck and make way to much money then you deserve!, we need to release him. Who cares if we have to pay his contract for 3 more years. It’s worth it to get him off the team. The Dodgers are the perfect example of Addition by Subtraction.

Thanks Jhall- I’m just glad that I didn’t miss it. Matt. *dreaming*

LOL Kahli!!! Good one.

Amy ~ you need to take a stroll over to the Dodger Thoughts blog. They are saying the same things so it’s not just us picking on JP.

I know it’s not just you guys! I do love you all.
My family likes JP too. I guess it’s a Walton thing or something. lol.

RIGHT ON KAHLI!!! FABULOUS!!!!!

Look, I’m in favor of the Manny Ramirez deal, which has brought excitement back to the Dodgers organization (including rare news coverage from The Worldwide Leader in East-Coast Sports), a much-needed big bat to the lineup (which could be even bigger if we get Jeff Kent out of the five-hole, not to mention sit Pierre rather than “untradable but not unsittable” Ethier), thousands of tickets sold (so McCourt can stop his whining about declining attendance, which the Ramirez signing quickly remedied), and arguably two critical wins against the Diamondbacks this weekend. I’m glad someone, whether it be McCourt or Colletti or my favorite stadium usher Irene, pulled off the deal, and I don’t even mind McCourt’s master plan to turn the Dodgers into Red Sox West, so long as we acquire players like Manny Ramirez on the cheap, rather than dogs like Julio Lugo (at any price).
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Labels: Frank McCourt, Manny Ramirez

posted by Steve Sax @ 1:45 PM permalink 2 comments links
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The actual trade is being talked about over at The Sons of Steve Garvey, and this is just a portion of comments by Steve Sax.

There is something which bears commenting on in Hernandez’s column about JP. There is a quote from our erstwhile manager that JP “will see the bulk of the playing time”. Now, with Juan complaining about his situation, after being told by Joe that he WOULD be playing . . . how does that reflect on Joe’s trustworthiness? Speaks volumes, doesnt it?

Kpookie, LOVE your song – perfection!

Its OK Amy, now that we understand its genetic. LOL!!

sparkleplenty – I loved your song yesterday!! Being at the game and seeing that lineup without Andre in it for the 3rd game in a row, I needed that song. It was terrific!!!

The Marvelettes – Mr. Postman

MISTER JUAN MAN
.
(Stop)
Oh yes, wait a minute Mr. Juan man
(Wait)
Wait Mr. Juan man
.
Please Mister Juan man look and see
(Oh Yeah)
If you could raise your tiny O B P
(Please, please Mr. Juan man)
Til then why don’t you shut your trap?
(Oh yeah)
Cuz we don’t want to here your gums flap.
.
You uttered some words today
‘Bout a feelin’ that you might not play
Please Mister Juan man look and see
Just how pissed off all us bloggers can be
.
We’ve been a sittin’ here opinin’ Mister Juan man
None too patiently
For that post that’ll make us feel better
Sayin’ your (donkey)’s now wearin’ S&D letters
.
(Mr. Juan man)
Mister Juan man, look and see
(Oh yeah)
With you at leadoff we don’t see many Vs
(Please, please Mr. Juan man)
Why’s it takin such a long time
(Oh Yeah)
For your butt to be back ridin’ the pine?
.
So many ways you’ve let us down
But that don’t matter much to JoJo The Clown
Can’t hit, can’t bunt, and can’t even throw
And they’re stickin’ it to You? Well what do you know?
.
(Mr. Juan man)
Mister Juan man look and see
(Oh Yeah)
If you can stop you little cry baby
(Please, please Mister Juan man)
Would you like a little cheese to go your whine?
(Can we check the waiver wires just one more time?)
.
Please go to San Diego San Diego
San Diego San Diego
.
(Mister Juan man)
Mister Juan Man Looks and see
(C’mon get into their sweater, the sooner the better)
Mister Juan man

muy bien, enchanted!

enchanted ~ that is a classic song!!! :)

Okay, I’ve stopped giving this JP article anymore thought. I’m just trying to divert my attention elsewhere. I saw this article on the Dodgers’ homepage; thought y’all would like to read this article:
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080804&content_id=3252141&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

It’s just nice to hear some quotes from Dodger players about the effect Manny has had on their clubhouse. I’m not naive enough to think that it’ll always be this way, but let’s ride this mania as far as we can!!! :)

The Master Songwriter Strikes Again – FABULOUS ENCHANTED!!!!!

thanks cpompe. I was thinking about the irony of the other article coming out at the same time. The Dodgers players need to have fun out there!

Yeah scott, irony indeed!!! Say what you like about Manny, but if he can be the guy that comes into the clubhouse and let everyone else know that they can relax a bit and have fun, things just may happen. Again, not sure how long this’ll last, but it nice while it’s there!!! I say the best example of this was when Ozuna (of all people) got a triple yesterday!!! :)

CP – we can also gather from that article tied in with the comments from JP, that he is probably not having fun. You could tell even Andre was having fun just watching. I spent alot of time watching his reaction to the game, and he was just as happy about what was happening on the field as anybody. I am thinking of what sara said, however, and this road trip will be good for them to see how everyone reacts to each other when they don’t have the crowd behind them with all the mania. However, I can’t wait to see Manny walk into AT&T park as a Dodger – That will be fun to see!!!

cpompe, i think ozuna’s belly flop into third was one of the funniest things i had seen in a long time!! classic~

also funny was when berroa almost hit manny when he tossed the ball to him because manny wasn’t paying attention.. those of you who were at the game, did you guys see that too?

sara – both things were hilarious!!!

dnel ~ are you going to any of those SF games? That’d be fun!!! :)

sara ~ Actually, I was listening to the game, but I wasn’t watching it. I was sitting at my computer trying to learn the new podcasting ministry I have thru my church. I didn’t here about that Berroa/Manny ball but it just seems like the guys are looser!!! :)

gracias senor scott!

Thank nells!!

JP just draws it out of me.

Not planning on it – I haven’t been there in years, and the last time I went there for a gnats/Dodgers game, it was not fun!! Win or lose, it’s not a fun park to be in if you are a Dodger fan. I’m sure gnat fans think the same thing about DS. We almost went to see a Giants game last weekend because my son wanted to see Linsecum pitch, and it was against the dbacks, but we went to Vegas instead.

enchanted – I know the feeling too well – LOL!!!

oh, too bad dnel. Well I guess we’ve gotta be content with the TV…

My thinking is they are probably sold out. My guess is gnat fans are probably just as curious to see Manny as we were. It will be interesting to see how they react to him – hmmmm!!

dnel – you’re right; they must be curious…

Actually tickets are not sold out for Friday, but it looks the prices have gone up a little – hmmmm!! Surprisingly there are still tickets available in the left field bleachers. You’ve peeked my curiosity now for sure – lol!!

hey yeah dnel – get a seat in the left field bleachers. Who knows, you may catch a Manny HR ball!!! :)

but if ticket prices are higher in SF, I hope that doesn’t translate into higher prices here in LA…

What the fans see Josh:

James Loney, a young player who Torre has described as a bit goofy, likes having Ramirez in the clubhouse because he allows players to be themselves instead of feeling they need to act a certain way to conform to the peer pressure of the locker room.


“He just likes to have fun,” Kemp said. “He hit a home run, I hit a home run, so there was a little hype. This game is exciting. Having him on our team is great, and we’re just having a lot of fun right now.”


“Everybody’s excited, everybody’s playing hard, having fun, and that’s what the game’s all about,” Martin said. “If you’re having fun that means you’re playing well and you’re doing the right things.

“When we added him, just L.A. and all the fans, and you just felt the excitement in the air,” Billingsley said. “It gives us a spark.

“We worked hard all of these first couple months to get to this situation where we could get a chance to get to where we want to go, and now we’ve kind of added another solution that could help solidify what we’re going for,” Ethier said. “With that, we’ve got to start focusing on that stuff and put all the individual stuff aside and just say, ‘This is what we’re going for, and we’ve got a legitimate shot to do it,’ and with this guy we can definitely say that we’re going to be a contender and can be a contender.”


“All I’ve ever done was be Juan Pierre,” he said. “I don’t know why, for some reason, they’re just sticking it to me this year. I applaud the move. Any time you get a chance to get Manny Ramirez, you get him. But from a personal standpoint, it’s putting me in a tough position.”

oh jungar, talk about irony. That takes the cake!

Wow!! jungar – that speaks volumes, doesn’t it? Thanks for putting all that together. Nice job!!!

Dnel- you had a problem at a gnat game???? Sorry to hear that, I have been to a few Dodger/Gnat games at AT&T park and it was great, there was some ribbing but it was all in fun. I would go in a heart beat if I could get tickets!!!

I’ve never been to a Dodger/Gnat games at AT&T park yet. I’d like to do that at some time!!! You should go dnel!!! :)

I meant to say game, not games. Darn it; I hate it when I don’t proofread…

cpomp,
AT&T park is actually a pretty neat ballpark if you can withstand all the black and orange!! :-) But seriously, it is a true baseball park and it is a great place to watch a game.

jnv – I have to say AT&T park is great!! It’s my own family that causes me misery when at those games, not the other gnat fans – lol!! No, seriously, my husband and son would love to go so if I put it in the ear to look into tickets, they probably would. We will have to see – LOL!!

I am hoping to go also, my buddy is going on Friday night and I want to go soooooo bad!!!! :-) We will see!!! LOL maybe I can talk my wife into it. If you go let me know.

jnv – If we went it would probably be Saturday or Sunday. It will be very, very interesting to see how the Giants fans handle Manny in there house as a Dodger. Should make for some interesting announcing by Jon Miller and company, too.

My family and I took a tour of, then Pac Bell Park (still like that name better). We went throughout the stadium (someone took a picture of the three of us sitting in the gnats dugout) and I could just imagine sitting in many of those seats and watching a game! I definitely want to go there.

BTW, I was thinking of wearing a Dodgers t-shirt or something, but I decided against it. But my husband wore his Dodgers sweatshirt. Ya know what? After the tour, he was going to take his sweatshirt off and drape it across Willie Mays’ statue out front and take a picture. He didn’t do it; I wouldn’t let him. I said something like, “Dodger fans have more class than that!” :)

CP ~ That’s funny!! So, was he an Angels fan back then?

I have attended a game in the baseline seats and it was a great experience. However, I can see the field much better from the loge level.

Just when we have something really exciting to talk about with Manny coming to the Dodgers, JP found a way to once again become a punching bag. I am really disappointed with his choice of words. I think the Dodgers have been more than fair with him. I also believe he has given the Dodgers the best he has and you can take that any way you want. He does not work so hard to get better, he works hard to try to keep a job. He will never have a better arm and if he could figure out a way to get on base more he would have done so already. I think he has made some positive contributions but I really did not think he was a selfish player. Now I am not so sure.

By the way, I have seen some comments on this board about how some of the younger players will leave the team as soon as they become eligible for free agency over the way they have been treated. If they choose to leave it will be for the money and for no other reason.

TRADE PIERRE NOW! He’s is a stick in the mud. Let him resume his career in some whiny, dark place. I’ll pony up $100 to defray the cost of his contract. Figuring the Dodgers owe him about $31 million, all we need are 309,999 other disgruntled fans. Heck, that should be a cake walk!!!

lol cpomp

the gnat fans aren’t as bad now as they used to be at the “Stick”. Back then you’d be crazy to wear your Dodger Blue. It could become abusive. Now, there are as many Dodger fans in the crowd as there are giant fans.

lbirken, you are probably right. it will probably be about the money and nothing else.. but IF that’s true.. and they’re worth enough that another team would make an offer they can’t refuse.. i would HOPE that our management at least attempted to match that offer (or surpass it in the case of some) because these are our homegrown boys, and if they develop into the stars we hope they will become.. then we as fans deserve to keep them here. this is why they should start free agency accounts for each untouchable.. starting with russell martin.

sara – I agree – prove to the young players they are “untouchable” by giving them what they deserve – a well-paid career with the Dodgers.

dnel – Yeah, he an Angels then. He’s been an Angel fan as long as I’ve known him…

CP – That’s good to know he’s been an Angel’s fan a long time.

Sara, we have heard some reports that the Dodgers have broached the idea with Russell Martin over a so called long term deal but he has declined. In reality, baring an injury, it is not in Martin’s best interests to make a deal with the Dodgers yet since I believe he has until 2010 to become eligible for either free agency or arbitration. Just remember what happened with Adrien Beltre. He had a breakout year and left for greener pastures and a big contract. He certainly has not performed at a high enough level to earn that big money although it could be argued the Dodgers still would have been better off with him at third base than with whomever has followed him. We will have to wait and see what happens but if Martin, Loney and Kemp keep getting better, there could be some big paydays in their future. For now the Dodgers are getting their talents at a cheap price.

dnel – he’s been a Cubby since birth, but he’s been an Angel fan since he came to So Cal, a little over 20 years ago. I don’t mind the Angels; I’m just not a fan of theirs. My husband doesn’t mind the Dodgers; he’s just not a fan of theirs. It’s a ying/yang relationship that works really well for us!!! Until he starts saying stupid stuff like, “The NL should have the DH rule.” Just to help the Dodgers with their current OF issues… Yeah, right. The NL will never have the DH rule (yecch)…

Cpomp- The DH Rule is for boys that want to play baseball but aren’t man enough!!! :-)

Cpomp- The DH rule is for boys that want to play but aren’t man enough!!! :-)

sorry for the double post???????

I hear ya jnv… Just try convincing my husband of that…

what do you expect from an Angels fan!! :-)

LOL!!!! I think Sabathia enjoyed hitting that homerun off of us. Has he hit any since being with the Brewers? – hmmm!
.
jnv/cp – The PH situations are more fun to watch, too. Well, our current PH, Sweeney, doesn’t count, literally – lol!!!

Dnel- Sweeney is no longer a PH, he is what they call a waste of space!!! But in his day he was a good one.

Well, I’m getting hungry. My husband is good for a lot of things; he’s making dinner while I’m painting! Gotta go; will catch up with y’all later…

LOL!!!! I was just playin’ ~ Joe thinks he is, and Joe knows best, right?! LOL!!!!!!

lbirken, i know that it’s in russell’s best interests to wait, which is why he is waiting.. i’m not saying that we’re setting up the account to pay him immediately, i’m saying we should have the money ready to make the big offer when the day does come.. russell will start to see bigger paydays very soon. i believe he is a “super two” after this season and will be arbitration eligible. i don’t think russell will be making under a million ever again.. haha

Joe thinks he knows. But we know he doesn’t know!! Joe doesn’t know we know he doesn’t know, which is why he always looks like he knows. But we know!!! :-)

I see what you are saying, the Dodgers should put money away for later. I wonder if they think like that. He is definitely a superstar.

My guess is current management does not worry to much about such things since who knows who will be in charge down the road. I am getting the impression current management whether it be on field or front office wants to win now.

it’s funny that you guys were discussing the DH just now, because i just got done talking about it with two boys in my class.. i had to do a statistics presentation, and i did mine on OBP.. it got me and the boys talking baseball.. and they’re AL boys (one’s a redsox fan and the other an angel fan) so they’re a big fan of the DH. i’m an NL girl all the way, and i despise the DH. i just don’t think anyone should be paid to play half the game. if you can’t play defense at least adequately, then you shouldn’t be paid just because you can bat. but that’s just me.. i don’t like poor defensive players.. i can name a few on our team :(

LOL!!!! jnv -that’s what is scary about Joe somedays (most days)- LOL!!!

yeah lbirken, i unfortunately don’t have much confidence in our current management.. but i do see it as promising that they have attempted to reach out to russell’s agent. that means that they understand his importance, and i would imagine it is on their list of things to do..

jnv, i hope that was a “friends” reference! haha :)

Poor defensive players ~ really sara? Who might you be talking about? LOL!!!!!

we actually have quite a few dnelly.. some are quite poor, and some are below average.. the below average ones don’t bother me as much as the poor ones.. and trust me, none of them are younger than 26!

“I don’t think it’s the home run; it’s the threat of hitting the home run,” Torre said. “It’s going to put the opposing pitcher on notice that you’re going to have to work hard to get through this.”


So Joe, use your own wisdom.

let’s go pirates! it would be nice to wake up tomorrow 1/2 game back.

But you see jungar, statistically, JPs OVERDUE for a homerun, so naturally Torre HAS to have JP in there because the threat of the statistically overdue homerun will in many ways be like the pitcher is playing Russian Roulette with a hair trigger that could go off just like that. Knowing that going in of course makes the opposing pitcher very nervous.
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Juan, to his credit being the clever hitter that he is, doesn’t tip his hand when that will be either, relying instead on soft ground balls and shallow pop-ups to disguise his true intentions, and to statistically increase the likelihood of a statistically overdue homerun.

Its quite ingenious.

The short version is that Torre’s a tool.

Imagine if you had ALL batters 1-7 with that capability. Wait! We do have have 7 batters that can hit homeruns at any given time. Not too mention, a pretty awesome defensive outfield – What gives Joe? We have no need for Pierre and Jones, pure and simple. We don’t need speed if batters 1-7 can hit for extra base hits and these batters can and do.
*
Kemp 13 HR, 41 XBH, 26 SB
Ethier 11 HR, 39 XBH
Martin 10 HR, 36 XBH
Ramirez 22 HR,46 XBH
Loney 9 HR, 41 XBH
Kent 10 HR, 36 XBH
Blake 12 HR,40 XBH
Berroa 0 HR, 4 XBH
Pitcher
*
Jones 2 HR, 11XBH
Pierre 0 HR, 10XBH, 37 SB
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You know ~ the more you look at the stats, the more obvious it becomes how lousy JP really is. Jones has more XBH then he does, too. What a joke!!! Even if you factor in stolen bases for JP, Matt’s stolen base numbers are a bonus to what he can do with the bat. With Pierre, stolen bases is all he can do because he is not doing anything with the bat.

Brings it all into perspective nells – 307 ABs and 10 XBH. 331 TPA and only 10 XBH. He only has 17 freakin’ BB, and 1 of those was intentional.

His line: .324 OBP .316 SLG .280 AVG.
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And that’s overall, leadoff he’s even worse. There’s only two things he does well – make contact and steal bases. But those three numbers above show that his making contact means nothing because the ball doesn’t go anywhere when he hits it. Stolen bases are relative – he runs well when he’s on, but at .324, he’s not on much, especially for a leadoff man, at which he’s down around a .297 OBP. That’s pathetic.

Arguably, he’s statistically superior to AJ, but to Ethier its not even close. And that’s offense. Defensively Ethier can change the outcome of a game. So can JP, but not in a good way.

Joe’s arrogant, stubborn and blind, and I blame Ned because he has the wherewithall to get rid of JP and won’t. If your manager’s a doddering old fool, the GM needs to do something so that he can’t use him.

enchanted ~ I guess having Manny hides any issues there may be with JP. He can pretty much go 1 for 4/5 the rest of the season, and that will be okay as long as we have more runs than the other team in the end. We started out the season with 5 out of the 8 position players being under the age of 26 (Martin, Loney,DeWitt,Kemp and Ethier), and now it’s completely reversed, 5 out of the 8 position players are vets (Kent, Berroa,Blake,Pierre and Ramirez). The only two that stand out as not doing there job either with the Dodgers or another team are Berroa and Pierre. I consider Kent a minor problem. One of those problems can be fixed immediately. The other problem could be fixed if Furcal comes back.

OFF THE SUBJECT….

I was at the Dodger game last Friday night (Manny’s first game as a Dodger) with my wife and one year old. We ended up sitting a couple of rows in front of Steve Garvey. My wife Kelsey pointed him out first and asked if I thought it was okay to ask for an autograph. I told her that I thought it would be best if we waited for the 7th inning streatch so that we didn’t bother him during the game.

All she kept doing for 5 innings was looking back to see if he was still there. She was affraid he was going to leave early and we were going to miss an opportunity to have him sign our son’s autograph book. She decided to take matters into her own hands. She grabbed our son Ezra and his little book and carefully walked over to where he was sitting and asked for an autograph for our son.

He turned out to be a class act. She walked up and as she did he offered her the seat next to him while he signed our son’s book. They ended up visiting for a few minutes long enough for my wife to have a new favorite Dodger (sorry Nomar).

Mr. Garvey was very nice to both of therm and for that I thank him very much.

- Ever

I really have nothing more to add to the ongoing D’s outfield saga other than to say that, until the Nedster has the cajones to deal with our overcrowded outfield situation, you’re going to run the risk of having comments like those of Pierre’s splashed all over the sports pages. Andre’s kept his frustrations in check and that is to his credit. Pierre is not and that doesn’t reflect well upon him. Please ,Ned, admit to your mistakes and clean up your mess.

seesky, well said. Clean up the mess.

I can’t believe Pierre is complaining when he’s getting paid much more than he’s worth and playing every day, though many Dodger fans on this blog, Dodger Thoughts and Dodger Blues think Andre should be the 3rd outfielder. He should have an Andruw Jones smirk permanently plastered on his face and be laughing all the way to the bank. I am sure that Andre feels extremely frustrated, but he knows enough to keep it to himself and wait for another opportunity to start, which I hope is soon. I think the thing that bothers me most is the double standard that exists. Don’t want to break any language rules here, lol, so I will keep it clean and just say that if Andre said what Pierre said he would be slapped into an alternate universe never to be heard from again and Pierre’s comments will probably be ignored by Torre and not affect his playing time at all.

bluecrewgirl – ya think? I am truly in awe of Mr. Ethier right now. I hope he knows how much he is wanted out there on the field every night. Like you said, between all of these blogs and from what I saw on Saturday in line to meet him, he is a cherished part of this Dodger organization, and it’s because of his talent as a ballplayer and his attitude and demeanor as a human being that has earned him that respect and admiration.

Yup DNelly, he’s playing it smart. I’m sure he probably vents to his family in private, but that’s where the venting should be done, not in the LA Times. I hope the Dodgers are taking notice.

In reading Pierres quotes it’s like in his mind Ethier isn’t even a question or concern. He lost his job to Jones, then Manny. It would be an awesome display of quotie-ness if Ethier flat out took his job as he should.

Jungar, I remember when Andre was interviewed on the post game show on the radio during spring training and they asked him about the competition in the outfield. He said he was really close with Matt and Pierre and basically that they did want it to come between them. I agree that without mentioning Andre it kind of made it seem like he doesn’t consider Andre in the same league as him and Andruw and therefore not competition. He’s right about Andre not being in the same league. He’s better than Pierre and the shell of his former self Jones has become.

I meant to say they didn’t want the competition to come between them.

Great story ever.gonzalez. It’s good to see Garv is classy, and was able to make a fan’s day (or life) better for the visit. You’re wife’s braver than me.

I once met Steve Sax (who was my favorite Dodger growing up) at the ballpark I worked at up here in NorCal. I had him sign a book for my dad (Steve Delshon’s “True Blue: The Story of the Los Angeles Dodgers”), and when meeting him, I couldn’t even talk. I was speechless, and probably looked like a fool, heh. I even forgot to shake his hand.

Still, I would consider it one of the best days of my life, getting the chance to look like a complete moron in front of Sax, heh.

jungar – what an awesome thing that would be if Torre actually gave Ethier his OF position back that was pretty much given away in the first place. The key phrase is “would be” because I’m guessing the issue just gets swept under Torre’s Pierre rug and Pierre will continue to be in the lineup. The only way it’s going to change is if Ned finds a way out for Pierre.

to all the fans of dre… he knows how much we want him to play… believe me or not I talked to him today (him and I went to arizona state together) and yes he is frustrated but he understands…

– LA Daily News—Torre: Dodgers not sending Andruw to Minors

If Jones is to come out of his miserable season-long slump, he’ll have to do it mostly from the bench. Torre reiterated Sunday the Dodgrers have no plans to demote him to the minor leagues, where Jones could play every day and get plenty of at-bats to work out his troubles. “You’re taking him away from the people who could help him,” Torre said. “That’s not something we’re comfortable with right now. We have the people here to help him.” The Dodgers aren’t giving up on Jones, and Jones is spending plenty of time working on his swing, as well. Jones – who has 370 career home runs – is batting .161 with two home runs and 13 RBIs. He’s 2 for 4 as a pinch-hitter. “We’re trying to fix Andrew,” Torre said. “He’s going to have to do it off the bench at this point and time. He’s working on some stuff with Jeff (Pentland) and Donnie (Mattingly). Long-term, we’re going to have to see some signs to get regular status.”

bluecrewgirl ~ I remember that interview. It was telling back then that Andre was willing to take any roll in the lineup.

Dodge 16 ~ I believe you, and thank you!!! I met a guy in the elevator in Las Vegas who went to school with Andre at ASU also. I don’t know who he was, but he said how great of a guy he is, and I told him I have no doubts about that.

Wow. Pierre really messed up there. How “Dedicated Gamer” Juan Pierre can make himself look like a cancer in a clubhouse with the reputations Jeff Kent and Mannybeingmanny is a talent in and of itself. The media can take liberties and only put the quotes they want to put in the article, but Pierre gave them the fodder in the first place.

I’ve never thought of Pierre as a selfish player before today. Obviously he was somewhere else when Tommy was talking to the team about playing for the name on front of the jersey. I thought a Proven Veteran Leader was smarter than this.

If it isn’t one thing, it’s another. Thanks a lot, Juan “Julio Lugo” Pierre.

Dodge16, thanks for sharing. He has a lot of support in Dodger fandom and I think it will all work out for him in the end and he will have a long and productive career wearing Dodger Blue. It seems like he’s had to prove himself over and over with the Dodgers, but he had to fight to get on the Arizona State team as well and he won that fight. He’ll win this fight too.

Joe’s statement about the Dodgers trying to fix Andruw Jones reminds me of a scene from the film, MIDNIGHT EXPRESS:

Ahmet: (speaking to Billy Hayes, but it might as well be Andruw Jones) Where are you going? Why don’t you walk the wheel with us? What is the matter my American friend? What has upset you? Oh! I know. The bad machine doesn’t know that he’s a bad machine. You still don’t believe it. You still don’t believe you’re a bad machine? …. The factory knows, that’s why they put you here. You’ll see… You’ll find out… In time, you’ll know. ”

I still say “Play Andre” beachballs would be a great subversive idea. Or maybe “FREE ETHIER”, heh.

Northstate, maybe we could have a blimp with that banner fly over Dodger Stadium during a game, lol.

northstateblues ~ I think that would be great!!! enchanted also suggested instead of booing Andruw, Sweeney and probably now Pierre, the fans should start chanting “We want Andre”. 51,000 fans saying “We want Andre” might get somebody’s attention. If anything, it would make Andre feel pretty damn good.

bluecrewgirl ~ I would put money for that idea, too :)

obi ~ LOL!!! too funny and somehow true of his circumstances – LOL!!!

I think it was enchanted (apologies if it wasn’t) who pointed out that NOT playing Ethier is like trading away Ethier for Manny. Of all the mind-boggling behaviors I’ve seen in my trivial life, Joe Torre’s stubborn refusal to perhaps even entertain the idea that Pierre is NOT the Dodgers’ salvation, either as a lead-off hitter or “speedy” game-changer, tops my list of weird thinking–and I teach high school students, some of the more puzzling creatures on earth!!

Obi, I loved that movie back when it came out. This situation kind of reminds me of The Wizard of Oz when the wizard won’t grant their wishes until they kill the wicked witch and bring back her broomstick. Maybe if Andre brings McCourt Ned’s toupe and Andruw’s empty Kentucky Fried Chicken bucket, he’ll grant Andre his wish to be back in the starting lineup.

LOL!!! bluecrewgirl – I think of the Wizard of Oz often because Ned and Torre don’t the have brains, the heart or courage to do what is right – LOL!!!!!!

“have the” not “the have” – I hate when I do that :)

Kahli – It does feel like Andre was traded. Some feel he will just be a bargaining chip for the off-season, which means JP for three more years and Jones for one more year. I can’t fathom JP in this lineup for 3 more years.

And Joe, I know you’re not a stats guy, but here’s one for you: Furcal (a REAL lead-off hitter) still leads Pierre in walks (19 BB to 17 BB)…and he’s played 50 LESS GAMES than Pierre!!!! For that matter, young, eager, undisciplined Loney, Kemp and Ethier each have TWICE as many walks as our current resident super lead-off hitter. And Martin has 58!!! But I know you manage by “feel,” Joe. So how do you “feel” reading Pierre’s latest whine (simply the latest in a long series of “poor, poor, pitiful me”).

Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
These teammates won’t let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe is me

Yeah, chanting “We Want Andre” would definitely send a statement. I would have felt bad about doing that during JP’s at-bats before hearing about how the Dodgers are sticking it it him. Now, I wish I’d chanted that last Wednesday.

dnelly, take heart. If the Dodgers sign Manny to his last contract (which I believe they will) I can almost guarantee there will be no Juan Pierre wearing a Dodger uniform in 2009.

LOL!!! kahli – super!!!! We need to post that everyday along with the “I Got You Babe” song.
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BTW – it’s astounding how Furcal’s stats are still holding up for as long as he has been gone. What an impact he has had on this team, good and bad this year.

nevermind, Andre started last Wednesday, P7, 6-3 GIDP, P7, K. Maybe that’s why stubborn Joe hasn’t played him since. Funny how it takes only one bad offensive showing to bench Dre, yet Pierre’s great offensive days come sparingly and he’s an everyday player.

Hell, who am I kidding, Dre’s been benched a day after hitting one out of the park.

Good point, kpookiemon. Maybe for once the fact that Andre doesn’t make that much money yet will work in his favor. The little that Andre and Matt both make would lessen the sting of paying Manny big bucks and still be a top notch outfield.

Ethier CARRIED this team for two weeks to get the Dodgers back in this thing. Is it possible Joe is afflicted mentally???? Emotionally???? JOE………………….the fruit is RIGHT THERE for the taking, you mule.

kahli – so you think they are trying to find a place for him? I have read that a few times today, but I am remaining cautious that is just wishful thinking. So, this playing time could be showcasing somewhat?
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northstateblues ~ he’s been benched after hitting homeruns off of lefties even. He began is multiple day benching back when they played the Angels after hitting a homerun off of lefty Saunders no-less. That was when the first round of articles came out about Pierre not being happy he had been benched over Ethier, and then Pierre started his days in left field never to be out of the lineup again until he got hurt.

dnelly, I don’t think little Juan is going anywhere until the winter. But we can hope for sooner! By the way, don’t look now, but somehow, the Dodgers are only 5 games out of a wild card spot.

Wow Kahli… NL West is coming up on things….

dnel, I hope they’re showcasing… it would make sense. But I think it’s extremely lucky for Juan to have made those statements on the last game of a homestand.

Wow!! – That’s great to be only five games out. The Mets and Marlins might be easy to catch at this point. I know what you are saying about JP, but even if it’s in the off season, it will be worth it if it happens.

northstateblues ~ Even if it is showcasing, he’s not doing that good. He was 2 for 9 Saturday and Sunday, and both of those hits were questionable (foul ball and an overthrow). He hasn’t had to field a ball that wasn’t a fly ball, so he hasn’t had to show his weak-a**ed arm, and that is to the Dodgers advantage if showcasing is the reason.

It almost seems that by making those statements he’s trying to push things in that direction because I’m sure in his mind he thinks there are other teams out there that would want and appreciate him.

Plus I don;t understand the idea of showcasing. Pierre in his last 3 years plus this year. Looks the same to me. That’s why when he says I am just being Juan Pierre he is right. It’s our fault for playing him. Christ his OPS is 60 point lower than Kuo’s

276 .326 .354 .680
292 .330 .388 .717
293 .331 .353 .685
280 .324 .316 .640

We need to hope somebody wants him, and that may be the hardest part to make him appear marketable again. Northstateblues made a good point ~ why say something on the last day before going on a road trip? Was it intentional to get somebody’s attention – hmmm!!

I know all I could think after last wednesday (when Ethier threw out the Jint at the plate to end the game), all I could think was how happy I was that Juan wasn’t starting.

Hope that Joe comes around soon

Maybe the Toledo Mud Hens will take him for C Max St-Pierre and cash considerations.

http://www.mudhens.com/info/player.asp?id=218

.291 .349 .274 .640

Just a delusional thought

Sizemore is an outfielder who has been lead off all season so far. Matt could be our Sizemore if given the chance. Even more reason to bench JP.
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Grady Sizemore’s numbers:
.273 .383 .540 .923 27 HR 56 XBH 64 RBI 71 R 70 BB 27 SB

Maybe we COULD get Grady for Pierre… well, the image licensing rights to Grady from the estate of Whitman Mayo. Probably a good investment.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/paintedtoenails/Grady_Sanford_Son_t-shirt_l.jpg

GOOD GOOBLEY GOO!

I’m about to go medieval on my fellow Dodger fans. And this post will essentially be futile. BUT EVERYONE GET OFF PIERRE’S BACK! His career OBP is essentially the same as Andre’s (btw i really, really like Andre alot, but Pierre is a much better player than you Juan-bashers give him credit for). I know this crowd doesn’t believe in a little thing called SPEED, but it matter’s greatly. Juan has 37 stolen bases this year, which are not factored in to his total bases or his Slugging % or OPS. Essentially, they could be, and when they are his numbers take a huge jump. I’m not gonna do the Slugging and OPS calculations, but trust me those 37 bases matter greatly. They matter more than stats can show, there aren’t stats for pitcher distraction, increased fastballs thrown and Juan’s constant ability to put the ball in play, make productive outs, get into scoring position, and putting pressure on the defense with his SPEED, and bunting ability. Distracting a pitcher and causing more straight pitches to be thrown are very valuable to a team, and have a trickle down effect. Juan brings so many intangibles to the plate that can not be quantified in stats. I know he doesn’t have power, that his arm is far inferior to Andre’s, and now everyone’s mad at him cause he’s frustrated with being shuffled around, benched and injured. But honestly, most of you are probably cubicle dwellers who have had similar frustrations and venting sessions about change at your own job. Additionally, who robs opposing teams of more hits? Would Juan have been thrown out at the plate last week against AZ. on Matt Kemp’s shallow fly to left field, or would his speed and ability to slide under the tag made a difference? Remember ‘Dre was tagged out, if he was faster and would have made a lower slide sooner he could have eluded the tag at home on that throw wide of home plate, how do you show that in the stats? That play cost us that game.

Good Morning, ITD writers and readers!!!
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How come whenever one of JP’s loyal fans tries to prove a point, they always bring up his career numbers? Why don’t they stick to what is happening this season?
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This season, Ethier has 155 total bases with 46 RBIs and 53 runs scored. Pierre has 97 total bases with 24 RBIs and 36 runs scored. Ethier has 7 outfield assists and Pierre has 1. However, it’s okay, the Ethier fans out here know Pierre will still get the playing time, so whether we bring stats to show differently, the Pierre fans can rest assured that he will still be in the majority of the lineups whether he’s earned it or not.

Oh, about the play at home. As I recall, Ethier wasn’t even supposed to be in the game due to stomach problems. He still managed to get on base, and I would have to wonder what Bowa was thinking when he sent him in the first place with Martin and Kent coming up to bat. Also, it needs to be also stated that the play at home the previous night would have never happened with Pierre in the left field either. I would think that Billingsly is pretty happy about that result.

Good morning nelly. Going to the game tonight here in St Louie. Going to be a hot one. Probably over 95 or so. I went to the Muny theatre last night and saw a live show (Fiddler on the Roof) here. It was miserable. Was a 3 hour performance outside. Thursdays game is a day game here, but my seats are in the shade, thank goodness. I pushing for a sweep. Haha.

Good Morning, Boblee!!
Have a great time in St.Louis!! I know it won’t be easy being there with all Cardinals fans, but it should be a great game anyway. It will be fun to see how Manny is received in St. Louis, and to see Billingsly pitch will be fabulous too, as long as he is good Chad. I bought one of his jersey shirts over the weekend as well as Loney’s and Broxton’s. Sounds pretty hot and I am assuming humid, too. Drink lots of water!! :)

Morning Nells!

Like I said yesterday, some people you just cain’t reach. By any statistical yardstick except SB, Andre outclasses JP. And even if you add JPs SB to his total bases, Andre still leads 155 to 134. Plus, stolen bases don’t drive in runs. Andre’s extra TB do. Given their OBP is similar, their OPS is miles apart: AE) .781 JP) .640. I’d take the guy who’s driving the ball.

JP’s speed is only valuable if he gets on, which he only does at a .297 clip at leadoff. The reason he has 37 steals is because all he ever hits are singles. Most of his hits are slaps to the shallow outfield which unless a runner is already at third, they can’t score from second on. At far as disrupting the pitcher, he does that once a night. What about the other 3-4 times? Is he disrupting the pitcher from the pine by calling him names? Oh no I forgot, he’s just off pouting in the corner.

And now in the heat of a pennant race, he mouths off about them “sticking it to me”? The SOB is playing and batting leadoff every friggin day. How is that sticking it to him? So now he’s not even a good team mate, which has taken away most of his “intangibles.”

Defense we won’t even go there.

My fear though nells is that if by some miracle they trade or bench JP, that Andruw gets the next shot instead of Andre.

Good Morning, enchanted!!
Yes, I know, it seems like a fore gone conclusion that it will ethier (either) be Pierre and Jones in the starting lineup. According to Dodge 16 last night, he said he actually talked to Andre and he is fully aware what the fans think, and although frustrated, he understands what is going on. It doesn’t make it any less right, but as long as he understands, that is all that should matter.

When you have more steals than runs scored from leadoff you will never convince me that the steals matter.

Very good point Jungar and Good Morning!!!

I see that Ned is now touting his success in the market with the Blake and Manny acquisitions. That certainly balances out the veterans/ youngsters ratio more to Torre’s liking. I now see Martin, Kemp, and Loney as guys who are assured of top playing time, but with the Dodgers having Pierre and Andruw for another season or three, seems to me that Ned will now consider Andre as expendable in his search for middle infielders. Wouldn’t be surprised him getting a Renteria for next season. Also this is probably the end of DY in a Dodger uniform, and what’s the need for Repko at this point.

Good Morning Nelly!!

Hey everyone I havent posted in awhile just been reading the blogs & everyones comments instead. It’s been interesting just reading and not commenting because a lot of the times what I have to say someone else has already stated so theres no need to repeat everything so many times. Also I feel like if I was to post my thoughts it could end up being 10 page essays….
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Anyways…. I missed Andre’s before the bigs and I’m traveling right now so I won’t get to see it does anyone know a way we can get a copy or see it somehow online or any other way?? Please :) I also missed his signing cus I got called away for work (that’s why I’m traveling) but I’m glad all you Andre fans got to meet him and had a wonderful time, especially you DNelly!
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I hope our boys sweeeeeeep the series… and maybe Andre will get to start? just maybe. It’s a thought I mean anything can happen…. Pierre’s never been on the DL and he did this year and then we got Manny (which I think is for ticket sales & etc….) but hopefully Andre get’s the spot he DESERVES.

OH! Amy- the DodgersWIN is having a play to win clinic on Aug.16th and after there’s a luncheon with Russell & MATT!!!! I think you should go and meet the man of your dreams and he can sweep you off ur feet with an amazing date after :) jussssssssssssst a thought! =P

Good Morning, messagebear!!
I’ve been thinking that all along truthfully. I figure Andre will just be a bargaining chip for the off-season depending on Furcal and the need for a short stop. Like enchanted said yesterday, Andre has already been traded for Manny, it just hasn’t physically happened yet. Meanwhile, he sits on a bench without playing everyday. It kind of makes me wish he would’ve have been traded with Andy – at least he would be playing. I am hoping I’m wrong and that somebody will be stupid enough to take JP off the Dodgers’ hands.

iheartethier – cpompe1 and I were just thinking about you on Saturday when were at Andre’s autograph day. It is really good to hear from you. Have a great time traveling and be safe. We hope to keep hearing from you ~

Good morning dnelly, I also read about Ned’s pleasure in getting Manny and Blake, but he also said he could have done more but didn’t want to get rid of his young players.

OH NO! Iheartethier- I move on the 16th. Why does everything good have to happen that day! crap. I need to meet Matt again and make a point. Crap.
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Good morning to all by the way,

Thank You DNelly!! I’m so glad you and cpompe1 got to meet not only Andre but each other!! I’m soooo beyond dissappointed I could not go… I cried to my mom and wanted to quit my job but I couldn’t because if I do well this trip I could be promoted…. I go to enough games to see him all the time, he’s thrown a ball to me before during a game (you know when him and Kemp are throwing practice balls before the inning starts and after they throw it into the crowd I was lucky enough to catch one this season…) but I just haven’t gotten it signed yet cus I literally am in awe and freeze when I see him out there on the field level stretching and talking to other fans before the game haha :)
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Amy- You have to go! move the night before so u can go during the day… that way you won’t be dying from the heat while moving & enjoying lunch with Matty instead =)
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UPSET does not even justify how I feel about Andre not playing right now, all you Andre fans/supporters have taken the words right out of my mouth. I truly believe Manny=$$$ for Frank & Ned….. why would you add to an already crowded outfield when you have such amazing players holding it down for the team already? As much as I don’t care for JP I think he actually would help the team if he wasn’t leadoff and more towards the end of the lineup….
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And about the whole not wanting to trade away the young players… they already have with Andre… next season Manny will leave after he has generated a good amount of money for Frank and by then Jones will finally come out of his slump (HAHA yeah right) to produce for the team and then it’s going to be Kemp/Pierre/Jones…. oh! or maybe they’re just keeping Andre around for when finally Jones has had too many big macs and cannot even make it to the games anymore…. I cannot count on JP going anywhere his mama has got Torre too whipped to bench him & give his limpy arms a rest for the day….
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So really I hope nobody is really heartbroken when Manny says peace out LA it was fun while it lasted…..

Hi, I posted that long old pro-pierre rant. Here’s another. Look, I agree Ethier should start more, but it’s not like Pierre is a huge fall off. Pierre’s OBP is low at .324 this year, but Andre’s is not much higher at .339. With SB’s considered in with TB’s Pierre has 134 to Andre’s 158, and Pierre has 44 fewer AB’s. Anybody really care about strikeouts? When you strike out more you have less productive outs, for those all important situations where you need to move runners over, and put runners in scoring position. Andre strikes out almost %300 more than Juan. Pierre is an excellent baserunner who is an automatic score from second, not so with Andre, Pierre goes 1st to 3rd alot better as well. Bottom line, Pierre is a far superior baserunner, baserunning is extremely important, ask the Angel’s, same with putting the ball in play. I will say what drives me crazy about Juan is that terrible arm, and his very long throwing motion. He does counter that w/ defensive speed to the gap and robbing hits however, but that arm is a killer. This is not an Ethier bash at all, but an attempt to show Pierre is not a doomsday player, he is actually good on most levels. Also, anyone care he has one of the highest averages with runners in scoring position? I have seen him come through again and again this year in those situations.

You know what iheartethier- I am actually considering moving my move up a day. Where can I get information? Oh, please tell me!!!

ya but also another productive number is how many pitches you make a picture throw and Ethier leads the team in that, perfect #2 hitter IMO. I would rather have a 10 pitch K than a 2 or 3 pitch groundout or flyout, even though it looks better than a K

We’ll just have to agree to disagree ara, but that’s cool. And I will say that I prefer JP over Andruw (of course I’d prefer a barium enema over Andruw.)

Most of Andre’s SO’s are way less than 10 pitches, he only averages about 4 pitches per AB.

ARAYD13- Thank you :) Thank you! Thank you!!!
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I love Juan Pierre. He isn’t horrible. He gets his job done.
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go to dodgers.com and towards the bottom under News Release theres a link/article about the day.. also on top of the site under Community click the WIN link (Women’s Initiative Network) link… you’ll find out all the info you need :) Do it, you know Matty’s dying to have lunch with you ;)

Look, I can see most of you have a crush on Andre, and I’ve said I’d rather see him play more, but you must realize Juan is much, much better than you give him credit for, exept for his weak arm. But it’s kinda sad when I’ve seen in this thread and previous ones Dodger fan’s hoping for a guy to get hurt, or hurt worse than he was, that is shameful.

Andre gets his job done, too. Other teams find a way to play four outfielders, and for some reason Joe doesn’t see logic in that. Fine, whatever, then let Andre go so he can play everyday and hit homeruns instead of stealing bases for someone else. I don’t think many are going to regret seeing JP go to a different team, but many, many will regret letting Andre go to a different team. Maybe you should ask Dodger pitchers who they would rather pitch against – a possible stolen base or a homerun out of the park.

<|;(o)

No, dnelly don’t wanna see Andre go, just showing that Pierre is not horrible. I think the best solution this year is to platoon, Andre against righties and Pierre against lefties. I wanna see Jones go, bash him up and down the block. He has no business being in the league right now.

Good Morning, Wally!!! RBC!!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!

and thats the thing is Andre can generate his own runs while Pierre has to rely on others and possible stolen bases to score. Also Andre has gotten very irregular playing time this year and anyone who has played knows if you get 4 at bats one day and none for the next 3 then 4 again its hard to stay in a groove.

Also, having a backlog of decent outfielders is a good problem to have, it strengthens the bench (very important) and depth of the team. To be honest I’m thrilled for the additional backlog created by the Manny acquisition. Our pinch-hitting got an instant upgrade with the backlog created, as well as our bench.

Arayd ~ That I agree with, but Joe is not going to let that happen, so let Andre go and play for another team. I am the last one to want to see him go, but it’s not in his best interest to sit on a bench while Pierre and Jones get most of the playing time.

But just because I like Andre ao much I will admit that Pierre is doing OK this year although a horrible OBP and a player of his capability needs to ge ton base to be effective. If Pierre had the OBP of say Russels I guarentee we would all be satisfied with him (save his little league arm).

Iheartethier- I-heart-you! let’s hope this works out :)

I hear ya spanky, Juan needs to get on base more no doubt. Asking for Mr. Martin’s is a bit much though, Russell is a special player when it comes to getting on base. Russell is my favorite player, I’m interested to see how well he’ll do hitting in front of Manny. I hope he focuses on line drives, he’s excellent at that. Sometimes he get’s greedy ( I noticed that after the Houston series where he had a couple homers) and elevates the ball to much.

Good morning ITD!!
As an aside, I think we’re going to need more production from Kent to really take off. It is not going to take long for opposing teams to pitch around Manny if there is not a hitter behind him getting it done.

Dnelly- since you are our mommy around here, do you give me permission to move my move up by one day in order to participate in the Dodger women’s baseball clinic and have lunch with Matty and Russell??

Amy, you should go for it!!!!

That is true JHall. Kent has been making solid contact lately though. He needs to realize at 40 his power has dipped and he just needs to focus on linedrives. I think he will definitely come around, he’s a pro. But guys, I’m really thinking World Series right now. Best Bullpen, solid starting (please let Penny come back to pre-All Star game 2006/2007, that’s not a stretch either), a hugely upgraded offense w/ Casey and Manny at the plate, an upgraded bench with the new backlog and hopefully a healthy re-juvenated Sweeney. Let’s get excited I really see something special coming on!!!

ya i know russels is a bit much but you get what im saying and I totally agree with you about russel its like when he hits a couple homeruns he gets pull and uppercut happy, then he gets back into his line drive swing and then hits homeruns and its like a cycle. What I would like to do maybe is go…
Pierre (JoJos choice)
Blake
Martin
Manny
Kemp
Kent
Loney
Berroa

That way Manny is sandwiched by our other 2 best hitters.
OR even…

Pierre
Kemp
Manny
Martin
Kent
Loney
Blake
Berroa

This way Manny is for sure to get up in the first inning and Kemp who has been susceptible to the breaking stuff earlier in the year gets more fastballs and of course he can hit more homeruns than Russel. While Russel (being IMO the second best hitter on the team protects Manny).

Hey, jhall!!!! I was looking up stats last night, and did you know that Grady leads all mlb outfielders in fantasy points right now with 1,525 points? He is 20 points ahead of Lance Berkman.

I think so too. Omg. this is crazy, blowing off my move to meet Matt. wow. I am all giddy now.
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Jhall- :) to you!

yes, move up your moving day – If you have a chance to meet Matt, definitely :)

Kent can be streaky. He’s making good contact as you mentioned. Also, like you stated, he mostly has warning track power these days. Let’s hope he get on a hot streak.

Thanks mom. this is crazy. I wonder if they still have tickets…. :)

I’m not surprised Nelly. Grady is the total package and one of the best players in baseball presently. Any team would kill to have him!!!! He is fun and exciting to watch.

Arayd13,
I think everyone here respects your opinion, but the fact that Etihier is a better player (you can throw your carreer stats out there I don’t care) and with Slappy in the line up, our team is NOT as good and therefore he does not deserve to be in the line up. I wouldn’t be this harsh except for the comments that !@#hole said the other day. I have absolutely NO respect for him anymore, he used to be a nice guy, works hard but now he is a selfish little #hit!!
But don’t stop your posting, it is refreshing to see a different perspective, I just don’t agree with your argument at this time.

No sweat JNV, I’m just pointing out he is not a terrible player and executes and performs on most levels. Juan needs a better OBP and some sort of tendon tightening surgery in his throwing arm or a robotic arm. Like I said to Dnell, platoon these guys, Andre hits much better against righties and Pierre against lefties. Also as I said, this backlog gives the Dodgers a wonderful bench. Ethier or Pierre is a great pinch hitting option.

Spanky, I like your first lineup. But what about in that line-up flip-flopping Blake and Russell? Blake has more power, which would benefit from increased fastballs hitting in front of Manny, and the way Russ handles a bat and gets on base he’d be a brilliant 2 hole hitter.

Good Morning, jnv!!! Nice to see your day is getting off to a nice start – LOL!!
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arayd – I too, am appreciative of all the things you are saying. I have had a different perspective on Pierre ever since he became a Dodger, and it really has nothing to do with Andre. I just feel Andre is the better outfielder, and I think any pitcher and Russell would feel the same way when it comes to defense, especially. Having singles turn into doubles, or a man on 2nd scoring automatically with JP in the outfield can become huge factors when the games are close.
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jhall – Maybe somebody should ask Andre how he would like playing in Cleveland with Grady Sizemore.

Nelly, I’m sure he would be thrilled!!!!

I REALLY don’t want to see Andre leave, but like most of you I think he has earned a starting spot- On ANY team!!! And if it takes him being moved so be it. We will have to be stuck with an inferior OFer.

Oh, and Good morning to you too Dnel!!!
I might be going to the Dodgers/Gnats game!! woo hoo

dnell, there is no getting around andre’s arm, it is magnificent, top 3 in the NL in my opinion. and defense is superbly important, 2nd most important aspect of a club behind the bullpen. i feel though that having both of these guys right now strengthens the team as a whole. andre is a better outfielder, hands down. I would rather have him out there all the time too. But when Juan is out there, he really helps the team waaaayyyy more than he hurts it.

arayd, I disagree with your assessment of Pierre. If he were as great as you think he is, some other team would have been begging us to let them have him. Meanwhile, he’s still here.

jnv – You know I am the last person that wants to see that happen, but this is just ridiculous that he isn’t getting playing time. I don’t know if you read the thread late last night, but Dodge16 actually talked to Andre, and he said he is frustrated, but he understands his role, and that he knows the fans want him out there. So, like I said earlier this morning, if he is okay with it (eventhough frustrated), I can live with that. Andre is smart enough to know what is really happening and he is showing that through what he is saying to the media.

jnv – Friday night’s game?

arayd, it’s crazy that you woke up in the middle of the night and decided to rant about JP.. in response to your comments.. if his speed was really so important, and distracting to the pitchers making them throw better pitches to hit to the other players, and if he was truly doing his job as a good lead-off hitter.. why has he only scored 36 runs?? why is he 5th behind kemp, martin, loney, AND ethier? why is that only 2 more than raffy who played in 50 less games? it doesn’t matter what you’re attempting to do when it doesn’t produce results. and CLEARLY, juan doesn’t produce results.

and don’t go pin-pointing ONE ethier moment where he came up a bit short. andre NEVER said he was faster than JP, nor did any of us. speed is not andre’s best asset.. but still.. maybe JP would have scored on that short fly ball, but i also think it’s safe to say that JP may not have been at third at all. you see, you have to reach base first to get to third.. and ethier’s OBP is higher than juan’s this season. FACT.

Well, if Joko stubbornly sticks with Cow and Phew and refuses to play the best outfield he can, all I can say is; You better win!!!!

Way to go Sara!

Guys, stop taking this “if you love him let him go” attitude w/ Ethier. A bench is soooo important. Imagine if Juan was gone, where’s that put the Dodgers? Think about it. All of a sudden Jones the “the terrible” is now the 4th outfielder. And what happens if and or when one of the OF’ers gets hurt? The D’s gotta trot out the most monumental failure in the history of Major League Baseball, to play every day, now with an unproven Minor Leaguer as the 4th outfielder. Then we’re also stuck w/ less good pinch hitting options. The same goes conversely, if we let Ethier go. In order to have a great team a backlog is necessary, and a great problem to have, Ethier realizes that, that’s why he took the high road. On any good team guys have to share and fight for playing time. This is about the Dodger’s as a team, having both Juan and Ethier is absolutely important. Torre however should platoon them. I think he’s going for stability, and consistency. He knows Juan’s arm is bad, but he knows also that he brings alot to the table. I just don’t see the Dodger’s letting Andre or Juan go at all, it ruins the depth of the team. And Juan and Andre are excellent 4th outfielder options.

Sara, well said. Actually it would have been better to have Phew off the bench to come in and pinch run in that situation. Let him pinch run late in close games for the players that are actually getting on base at a league average or better rate.

There is a nice video of Manny meeting all the dodger players and Torre on the mlb home page go to the home page and go to the tab that shows a picture of Manny and Kemp then play the video

Got my ticket :) I am happy. Sara, are you going to the clinic as well??

I haven’t read all of your comments this morning on JP. I said I am staying out. But Thank you Arayd for standing up for him! Good to know someone is taking over my duties!

One thing that amazes me is the fact that Phew with all his speed only has 9 freaking doubles and 1 triple in 307 AB’s.
One extra base hit in every 30 freaking AB’s or 6 or 7 games. Some of you may be OK with that but I find it unacceptable.

Ya sara, i’m crazy, but a .339 OBP is not much higher than .324. Read my other posts, I’m pro Ethier. But Juan is a good player, bottom line. We need both these guys to win (read my previous post). The funny thing about runs scored, is yes you gotta get on base to score, but your team also has to knock you in, and as we all know unfortunately our boys have a terrible average with runners on and in scoring position. Also, Juan has way less AB’s than all those guys for one, so he’s had less opportunities. Second, only Russell has a significantly higher OBP, But Juan should definitely improve in that category (more BB’s please). Thirdly Juan hit 7th and 8th for a long while, who’s gonna knock him in then? The 8 hole w/ Hu & Berroa and the pitcher at 9? please. Those are reasons he has scored less runs, it’s kinda obvious.

well jhall, Juan’s a slap hitter, he doesn’t get the ball to the wall. But he does take extra bases once he get’s on, speed is a supplement to power in baseball, or in Juan’s case extreme lack of power.

Tru, I’m with you. If Phew is so good and an asset, why is there no interest in him at all at any price. Also, why were his former two teams happy to see him go. LOL!!!!

Matt has speed plus power. I still think he is our lead off guy, and then it goes back to Kemp, Ethier, Martin as 1,2,3, with Manny bringing them all in. Pierre comes in as pinch runner in the late innings. Then you are not giving up defense in the outfield ethier (either)

arayd, the same players were knocking raffy in when he scored all his runs.. plus if you’re at the bottom of the order, the top of the order comes up to knock you in.. and what about kemp, martin, loney, and ethier? are they playing in front of different players?? that’s what obvious to me.. there are others scoring runs.. and juan’s sole job is to get on base and score runs and the numbers don’t show him doing that. hitting 7th or 8th for a while? we should go back and look that up.. i think it MAY have been a week, maybe two.. but certainly not much more than that..

i wasn’t saying you’re crazy.. i said it was crazy you launched a rant in the middle of the night.. crazy as in funny

Yep, and he gives alot of those extra bases back on defense. LOL!!!

We would be better with Kemp leading off and Jones batting 8th.

yeah but when pierre is on base he gives kemp and martin more fastballs

LOL Sara. It is impossible to score no matter where you bat in the order when you’re not getting on base at an acceptable rate.

LOL!!!!

here’s the link to the WIN Clinic:

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/community/win/events.jsp

girls, anyone planning on going? just amy?

amy, i REALLY REALLY REALLY want to go.. i mean come on, lunch with russell!!! and matty and donnie baseball!! and not to mention getting instruction on the field from kent and the greats.. i just don’t know if i can yet.. my friend and i had a vegas trip planned that weekend, and she already booked the room.. the only way i think i can make it work is if i fly to vegas after the clinic to meet her and then drive back with her.. but that’s going to be costly.. and then i’d be making her drive there by herself.. i don’t know what to do!!! this is much too great an opportunity to pass up, but i don’t want to let her down ethier.. advise, please! :)

How do you guys know Juan’s on the market? I don’t think the Dodger’s want to trade him at all. Does someone have a link to an article about Juan actively being shopped around?

Ethier V Juan:

Ethier’s OBP is a little down this year compared to normal with all of the jerking around he’s had to deal with. His career OBP is above .350 and anyway, there is a substantial difference anyway between them already with as many AB’s as they’ve both had.

All you have to do is look at Pierre’s OBP as a lead off hitter this year: under .300

jungar – that LOL was for you – I was predicting what you were going to come up with, and I didn’t expect short, but simple. However, good point :)

advise or advice.. ethier works..

Yep Magic, too bad he isn’t on that much.

jhall, haha.. exactly.

Russell is going to be with the Dodgers for many, many years to come. My suggestion is to go with your friend. Russell will be here for many other opportunities.

i know dnelly, but she knows how much i want this.. she of all people knows my russell obsession better than anyone.. it’s just such an amazing opportunity, and who knows what the next clinic (if they have one) will be or look like.. it’s not just about russell, it’s about the whole day.. argh..

Oh sweetie. That’s a tough one. It looks like you have to go to Vegas. I think not letting your friend down is more important than Russell….but like you said …it’s a very special occasion. And it is a lot of money too. I want to see you there..but.. like you said your trip is booked. You know you can always meet Russell. Spring Training..that’s what I’m waiting for!

If she is aware of the obsession, then go for it!! I didn’t know if it was a baseball friend or not.

Dnel is right. Russy is around. Have quality girl time. Remember- spring training..casually meet him in a bar or something!

there is one on mlb.com and another in SI that both are on waiver (Jones and Pierre and have been and they can be traded but no one wants them) and Ethier gets more fastballs when Kemp is on base too and since Kemp is on base more….

the math is aready done, the team scores more runs per game when pierre was DL’ed…..his terrible. i mean terrible SLUG to go along w poor OB is not worth the speed.

Amy ~ now we have gotten her all screwed up – LOL!!!

LOL. Messing with Sara’s head. Sorry Sara.
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If you can afford it, yes, if not..go have girl fun!

C’est La Vie. At least Phew is not the worst option. CowJones has that place covered.

The trouble is, and we discussed it at length in the spring, is that Juan HAS to OBP .350 minimum to not only make him an effective leadoff man, but to overcome his terrible D.

My rebuttal to the Kemp and Marty seeing more fastballs because of Juan is – Juan’s only on base once a game. So that’s possibly 2 AB’s (1 for Kemp, 1 for Marty.) What about the other 6-8 trips up to the plate for the both of them? If Juan isn’t on, the only way he’ll disrupt the pitcher is to yell obscenities from the bench.

she actually hates baseball.. but she’s my roommate and one of my closest friends.. so she understands about my dodgers and russell.. i definitely think she would understand, but i don’t think i can do it.. i would just feel too bad..

it’s just SO frustrating!! of all the weekends i’m in LA doing nothing.. the one weekend i’m going out of town is the weekend it ends of up being.. and seriously, it’s not just about russell.. it’s about the opportunity of playing at dodgers stadium, learning from some incredible people..

amy, i will definitely be heading to spring training at some point.. i just need to find people that might actually go with me =/

Someone mentioned it earlier. It is interesting since Phew is such a good player and leadoff hitter (other peoples opinion) that we scored more runs per game with him on the DL and Kemp leading off. Kind of says it all.

Sara, there will be other opportunities to meet Marty.

Well whatever, Juan makes the team stronger. You can go ahead and beg for him to go just so Andre can play, then we can have Jones as the other OF option, yeah that’s great. And a weaker bench, yay!! Or since you care about Andre more than the team let him go get more AB’s w/ a crappy team, and in the process make the Dodger’s worse, yay! Any way you slice it if one of these guys go, we’re kinda screwed, a 4th outfielder is really important.

Sara- if you want to be my friend you can. We both are at the stadium a lot. I am with out a doubt going to spring training. And, I’m going to this clinic and as of now, I do not have anyone to go with. I don’t have a lot of girlfriends who undertand Maybe we might like eachother. lol

I am okay with Ethier being the 4th/5th outfielder right now, and maybe he is too, I don’t know, but if things go according to Ned’s plan, Manny will be signed, Pierre and Jones will still be here, and then there’s Matt of course. So, unless we unload JP and/or Andruw, Ethier is screwed for another 1-4 years as an outfielder off the bench. He is too good of a ball player for that. He needs to be playing everyday now, whether it is with the Dodgers or not. A player who has 11 HR, 46 RBIs, 53 Runs, 36 Extra base hits, 34 BB and 7 assists isn’t a bench player (IMO)

I’d rather have Repko or DY than Phew!!!
Unloading Phew makes the team stronger. Plus it gets his whining selfish butt out of our clubhouse.
Seems inane to me that Joko would change things and go with Phew leading off when the lineup with Kemp leading off and Ethier batting second was winning and scoring more runs per game. Not very logical.

uh, arayd….That’s what Jason Repko and Delwyn Young or for. Whatever? Support your case with FACTS, dude. Not, “Well, whatever, Juan makes the team stronger” If you want to be taken seriously, then let’s see some hard facts.

.. not to be forward or anything… :)

Also, how many NL contenders have a 4th outfielder anywhere near the caliber of Ethier or Pierre?

BTW, Sara, Juan hit 7th about 7-10 times, regardless, the 8 hole and 9 hole weren’t gonna get the job done and knock him in those times. He has also had about an average of 75-80 fewer AB’s than Martin, Kemp, Loney, and Ethier, fewer AB’s means less runs period, that’s why he is 5th behind them! Raffy scored so much because he was playing out of his mind, unbelievably good, he was on base at .448. Man I pray to heaven above he can come back and help us this year, the brass seems to think he will.

thanks jhall, i know. you and dnelly, and amy are all right. i need to go to vegas as planned, and just hope i can make it to the next clinic. i’m jealous you are going amy :)

amy, we should definitely go to a game together or something. i have a ton of guy friends who love baseball, but only a few girls that do. and those girls have boyfriends who they don’t like to be separated from.. haha.. i’m definitely going to spring training too.. just need to sort out details.

Scott, honestly you would take Repko or Young over Juan? Look at those numbers. You guys really like people who strikeout don’t you. Unbelievable. Have you heard of productive outs? Putting the ball in play? Beating out a double play? C’mon! And if you all love OBP so much how could you take DY or Repko over Juan, both are lower!

haha amy, were you hitting on me? :)
just kidding, we should try to be friends though.. emma (crzblue) always talks about being friends with people she met at the clinics or in her dodgers section or something.. i think that’s so cool, cuz you already know you have a common interest..

arayd, we should start keeping tracks of outs vs productive outs.. because seriously, i don’t see juan doing it too much.. whenever i see him up there and we need a productive out, he pops up somewhere or hits back to the box.. neither of those moves runners over..

btw, amy, i think you and me at a game would be hilarious~ you being insanely optimistic, and me trying not to say too many negative things about JP to you while also trying to ignore the fact that manram is on the team.. haha

\O/
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Wally, Mom, when’s Dad coming home??

Wow, I still can’t get over jhall and Scott saying take DY and Repko over Juan Pierre. That is insane. I’m sorry it is totally, insane. I don’t even have to post numbers on that. I like ‘em both but Juan is far superior to them.

If you break it down;
Phew has scored a run every 8.5 AB’s this year.
Andre has scored a run every 6.6 AB’s this year and has batted lower in the order more often than Phew.

good to know Sara. It’s tough being single sometimes when there are a lot of couples are around. And I definetly do not have a girlfriend who can match my level of love for this team. We bothe are there alot.
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Have fun in Vegas!! The Dodgers will be waiting for you next time :)

Sara, are you saying you’d rather not have Manny?

“while also trying to ignore the fact that manram is on the team.. haha”

Beav ~I think he said Saturday if I’m not mistaken. I know, it’s been along time. However, he will be very proud of us.

Sara- I say lets do it. I can only go on daddy’s tickets sometimes..then I sramble to find people to go with for the other games. I try to make 3 games a home stand..and our homestands are running out!!! We will balance eachother out! It would be great.

Not soon enough Beav. Probably good he doesn’t have to read some of the absurdity!!! LOL!!!!

Truth of the matter is that ALL of the players better be at their best this month if we don’t want to fall too far behind the DBacks. We’ve most got contending teams, they’ve got teams with losing records other than Florida.

arayd, Repko had what, 5 AB’s this year? And I was talking about them being the 4th or 5th OF if Juan was traded. Strikeouts are better than double plays of course and Pierre makes more outs than anyone in baseball when as a full time starter. Productive outs my eye. Grounding out or flying out while leading off the first inning is productive? You don’t know what you are talking about except when you hope that Furcal will comeback which of course would be great. Find a baseball expert not named Torre or Colletti who likes Pierre.

sara – At Saturday night’s game, I didn’t have to say anything negative. The 10 year old was saying it for me – from the mouth of babes…

absolutely enchanted!

If Brad Penny comes back to old form, we are in great shape!!

arayd, i forgot you’re new. yes, i dislike manny very much. always have. and i’m not going to jump on his bandwagon because he’s wearing dodger blue. i’m not saying the team does not need manny.. i just personally have a real issue with him being on my team.

arayd do u enjoy being a below .500 team? With Pierre we have been. Not sure why you defend him so much. Each team that used to have him now all have better offense without him…(Marlins, Rockies and Cubs) I am not against speed and the little things Juan does, it’s just not enough. If it was 2003 Juan Pierre it would be….

We need to keep an eye behind us too because the Rox are due to start their climb like last year. That climb started August 15th of last year.

Exactly Scott!!! DY only has 69 AB’s and has 7 doubles and a HR. Phew only has 9 in 307. They would both be better 4/5 outfielders. Better defense also.

Heck, the Rockies and Cubs couldn’t wait to get Phew out of town. LOL!!!!

haha yeah dnelly, that boy sounded SO adorable. your conversation with him was classic..

and you’re right to beware of the rockies.. they’re not too far behind, and they can slug their way back into it if we or the d’backs start a losing spree..

yeah amy, it would be great. i have some friends who work for dodgers and they give me tickets sometimes.. i will let you know when i get some.. or let me know if there’s a game you really want to go to..

sara, I’m assuming you won’t be purchasing the Manny dreds that will be on sale next home stand?

sara – it was incredible!! He was so darn cute and so knowledgeable of all the players, especially the players from the 80′s. His favorite player of that was Fernando – he was just as excited to see him as any of the current players. He loved Russell’s full name, too.

Scott-
The Rockies, Marlins and Cubs all have experts that liked Pierre. I know what you meant, and I stand by what I said, Juan is way better than both of those unproven players even as a 4th OF option or bench player. That being said I would trade Juan in a heartbeat if we could p/u a good prospect, or a good Bullpen guy. I would love to free up his salary. I would take DY and Repko on the bench or a 4th OF, but they are both weaker than Juan and pretty much unproven.

What bothers me is the all out Juan bashing that goes on here. Every aspect of his game is strong except for his pathetic arm and throwing motion. Does he need to recognize he beats out less hits and needs walk more? Yes. Does he lack in power? Yes. Does he make up for that in speed though? Yes. Juan Pierre is a good player, so support him. Also, you can’t have a productive out leading off the inning Scott. But he is excellent at moving runners over (productive out). Also, 196 hits last year is pretty good.

btw – I do know what I’m talking about w/ Pierre.

How can you call an OBP below the league average strong. And even lower leading off. Geez!!!!!

btw – I do know what I’m talking about w/ Pierre.
By arayd13@yahoo.com on August 5, 2008 12:22 PM

CORRECT.

nope scott.. it’s not an expense i’ve budgeted for :P

arayd, I guess we’ll just have to agree that you don’t know baseball and leave it at that.

dnelly, that is cute. aww, a fernando fan.. i always loved fernando, but i was a bigger orel fan when i was little. i loved the bulldog. and who doesn’t love russell’s full name? it’s so fantastic!

Let’s see, no arm, no power — anyone else with that kind of skill would be in the minor leagues, or not in baseball at all — with nothing positive except speed, maybe he could run track.

LMAO Tru!!!!!

if it was all about speed and nothing else we’d start ozuna at lead off

Jungar/Scott and whoever else, who was our team leader in hits, runs and stolen bases last year? Our hits, runs and stolen base leader last year was in the top 5 of the NL last year in hits and SB’s. If our team had a decent avg. w/ RISP last year he would of been knocked in more and been in the top 10 in runs, as it was he was in the top 20. That player is 1 Juan Pierre. And he has the same skills today as last year. Which one of our coveted players this year will get anywhere near those production numbers? 196 hits, 96 runs and 64 SB’s, who?!?!?

No Scott, we don’t agree that I don’t know. I do know you’re missing the forest for the trees. The guys averages nearly 200 hits, 50-60 Sb’s and 100 runs a year. That is solid production. You can have all the doubles and potential power, enjoy the strikeouts while your at it. The only thing that power is good for nothing when you strikeout as much as Ethier.

Took him 724 PA’s. Also led the team in outs with around 500. And we sure made a splash in the standings with Phew starting everyday and leading off.

arayd, Are you Pierre’s agent?

Scott, we agree!!!! LOL!!!!

nice stats. Why don’t you compare total plate appearances with hits and times on base with other players moron.

My last word on the subject…

Don’t forget that along with the 196 hits, there were 497 outs.

<|:)-o-

Hey guys and gals of the ITD!! Anyone else here wondering how Joe Torre was going to address the situation with Juan Pierre complaining to the LA Daily News about how the Dodgers are, quote, “sticking it to him” ? Well, guess what? Juan was right!! Check out this video from the meeting Torre held with the team last night in St. Louis.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkJmSUhNBHY ]
:-)

aww come on boys, let’s at least try and play nice now.. we all have differing opinions

No, I wish, I’d have some good money. Look the guy has a consistent history of producing at a high level, there’s nothing else to say. I’m a true blue fan and to be honest it really was maddening to me that people in this thread would wish harm on anyone, nonetheless Juan Pierre (and several of you did). No one really has a case that the guy does not produce. You can present all the stats you want but, 200 hits, 50 sb’s and 90-100 runs is good no matter how you slice it (and those are his averages, not just 1 good year). Could he improve yes (except for the arm). Would I take Ethier in the lineup? Yes, but he has fall off from things Juan gives the team and Juan has falloff from tools Andre brings to the table. Juan is a definite plus for our squad, starting or off the bench.

easy Scott!!

You know I am on your side about Pierre, but we should leave the name calling out. Arayd has been respectful to our comments……

That being said, I would agree with the above statement that I would take Repko or Dy or a bag of balls over Pierre, his usefulness is long past…. Sorry Arayd.

wow, scott i hope i meet you one day. e-mail me and let me know where we can meet.

arayd, you keep talking about ethier’s strikeouts and the guy doesn’t come close to striking out as much as kemp. i don’t see anyone bashing kemp, so stop using Ks as a way to put ethier down. an out is an out.. and like i said above, i think we should actually keep track of pierre’s productive outs.. there really aren’t as many as you would like us to believe

Arayd, he is not a good fit with the team. He feels he is being mistreated by playing everyday, he is selfish and an A*S*S because of it. He doesn’t deserve to play for the Dodgers. Just my opinion.

He is second class, he can show up at 7:00 am for another team (if they would take him) and “just be Juan Pierre” as he stated.

trublue, i have to say that i think it’s adorable that you and dnelly are a lot alike and do dodgers stuff together!

Thanks Sara, I guess I raised her right. LOL

Dnel

From your comment earlier….. I am not sure which game Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Will you and your family be going????

obi – FABULOUS!!!! That hits the nail on the head, literally – LOL!!

haha i guess so.. my mom loves the dodgers too.. and she and my dad don’t miss a game.. but they’re more of the sit at home and yell at the TV type of fan.. not so much on the trips or meeting players or anything.. not their style. more of mine though.

Well this seems to be a pure number crunching crowd. A guy who can stay healthy, in the line-up and get that many TPA’s while hitting .300 and getting a OBP of .346 has value, just not here.

arayd, sorry about the moron comment, but what can I say? OBP is just one stat that helps explain away bogus numbers like total hits. Stolen bases are very hard to quantify as being any extra help at all. Timely ones, sure, but overall? Here’s an analogy: Suppose a basketball player scores 40 points a game but he needs to take 50 shots to make 20. That’s shooting 40%, which in the NBA would be awful. So, if it takes Juan way more at bats than most to accumulate his 200 hits, then why is that special when other guys are getting the same amount of hits in far fewer at bats? On base percentage is a more accurate measure of offensive success measuring not only hits, but walks. Shouldn’t the number of times reached base matter more than just hit totals?

Here’s to the Dodger’s wining the Series, no matter who with!! Wouldn’t mind if it was w/o that class act Scott though.

staying healthy is only a good thing if the team needs you to be.. sorry arayd but the team was better when he was on the DL. the W-L record shows it.

Lineup according to Tony Jackson:

Kemp. CF
Ethier. RF
Martin. C
Ramirez. LF
Loney. 1B
Kent. 2B
Blake. 3B
Berroa. SS
Billingsley. P

LOL Obi!!
Value over replacement player-VORP

Andre Ethier 10.7
Juan Pierre 1.8

From Baseball Prospectus

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=311605

LMAO!!!!!!

no way messagebear!! i’m SO thrilled right now!

Those are all counting numbers. Totals. Ratio’s are more important. But I will not continue this. You win. You are right. He is good. Batting Avg is meaningless.

maybe juan IS getting his due for running his mouth!! :)

Play nicely boys and girls I am off to lunch!!! :-)

That’s freaking fabulous Bear!!!!

No we know why Juan was complaining again. He knew he would be benched. Yeah.

Arayd, I respect your opinion, but as Red Auerbach would say to Bill Russell each year after the Celtics had won an NBA championship, “What have you done for me, lately?” JP’s stats from last year means nothing THIS YEAR . Here’s a guy who despite the opinions of the majority of baseball analysts and Dodger fans, gets the starting position and still has the unmitigated gall to go to the press and complain about how he’s the persecuted one. Why? Because unlike Andre Ethier, Juan is not a team player. Juan is a narcissist. Read his comment in the Daily News article, he refers to himself in the 3rd person. The tendency to refer to oneself in the third person is often viewed by psychologists as a classic symptom of narcissism. To paraphrase the words of another baseball narcissist, Juan is NOT the straw that stirs the drink.

sara – I live with gnat fans ~ who else am I going to cheer with and cry to about our Dodgers. Well, I whine and complain plenty on here, too – LOL!! Actually, I probably do more laughing with what goes on during the day on ITD, with the songs, tv scenarios, and the whole “Leave It To Beaver (enchanted)” role playing, not to mention all the girl stuff with Russell, Matt, Andre and James. Did I tell you how gorgeous Andre is in person – LOL!!. He and Maggie are going to have some great looking, athletic children.
.
jnv – looking into it, but not sure yet. My own kids start school next week, believe it or not, and I have to report back next Monday,too – Yikes!! So, it will depend on what needs to be done before Monday.

Way to go Obi! You just said it ALL

This is the best line up of the year. If only Nomar (or obviously Furcal) could replace Berrora….

I agree with you Jungar. Hopefully Torre will leave the lineup like this for a while, much more productive

messagebear – that is fabulous news!!!!! Thank you!!!

Wow, great line-up! Jungar, I’m curious to see your lineup card(s) if you had a healthy Furcal ? Or if you only had a healthy Nomar?

Obi, at least Reggie could back it up. LOL!!!!

Yes Scott, and Juan’s career OBP is decent at .346. However, I think he does need to improve on his current # no doubt. Yes he has had lower OBP the past 3-4 years, but the numbers that can’t be quantified need to be taken into consideration. For example, durability. Baseball is grueling and exhausting. To produce at a decent level like Juan and stay in all the games while dealing w/ travel schedules, warm-ups, bumps and bruises is tough, no one in the league is able to keep up w/ him on that front. Hitting to contact matters, at least to me, runners move over. Solid bunting ability. Speed, on the basepaths and in the field. Besides his arm, he is not terrible compared to Ethier, but also they are different kinds of players. I can keep going on this treadmill. I understand what everyone is saying, and know all the #’s. There are no stats for intangibles, Juan has them, and he is not a terrible player. And don’t get me wrong, if someone has to go I’d prefer it be Juan, but for more than a bag of balls, hopefully a prospect or bullpen guy. Go blue!

Ok, arayd, no more badgering. We’re both hoping for the same end result. Let’s hope they win tonight.

Jhall, good catch!!! And yes, you are so right about Reggie!

LOL!! Yep, who cares if they freaking lead off Bennett as long as we’re piling up wins. HaHa!!!

switch Kent and Looney.

Obi – you are a wonderful additon to this board. I have really come to enjoy reading (and laughing) over the things you have to say.
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arayd – I am still appreciative of your viewpoints. I value anybody who is willing to fight for the players that they deem as valueable to any given team. It sounds like you want the same things we all do – a Dodger team that is successful at all levels, and I think there is room for all players because they are all on this team for a reason. It comes down to the management of this team that is the issue, not necessarily the players themselves. We have said all along, we were willing to accept a platoon situation when Manny came on board, but that wasn’t happening because management doesn’t see it that way. Well, maybe someone turned on a light for them for today’s lineup, and hopefully this is a sign that Joe is thinking things through a little bit better (not holding my breath, but we never know). I just want you to know I do appreciate what you brought to this board – the passion for this Dodger baseball team we all love so dearly. Have a wonderful day!!
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Going to school to see what shape my classroom is in – I will be back for the game – bye all!!

agreed scott. the one stat has been rattled off though is the w-l when pierre or ethier is in. i say put the guy in that gets more w’s, and if it was ethier do it. i prefer a platoon though based on production vs. rhp’s and lhp’s. and remember overall i prefer ethier, but i just don’t see juan as a bad player on any front except for his arm, which can hurt the team.

but hey! let’s get excited we got a great bullpen, solid bench, solid starting and improved offense. i kid you not, i really sense a WS! it’s gonna happen. Go Blue! don’t be afraid to be an optimist! Let’s have some fun w/ the boys in blue! thanx for the info guys, i appreciate it.

thx dnel!

thanks arayd.

Arayd, I also value your opinion and even if we don’t always agree with you, you have every right to say what you think. That is what makes talking Dodger baseball a great experience. If everyone always agreed it would be kind of boring.

well said trublue, i completely agree.

arayd, i too do not agree with your take on pierre, but that doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to express your own opinions.

Amen Tru!!! I’m feeling the love. Winning will do that. LOL!!!!

Sorry to leave you all but, I have an appointment, darn. I’ll see everyone at game time. Go DODGERS!

okey dokey. again for the record, i do prefer a platoon or ethier as full time. but i see ways in which juan can help us if he’s in the line-up, which to me seem to be far more than he can hurt us (he’s been excellent w/ RISP this year). i really do not like that arm though, it is weak! i just happen to really value speed. but i also value upside, and andre has tons, as juan apparently appears to be heading south, so i’d much rather keep andre. i also think 1/2 this board has a crush on andre, my gf kinda does.

most of the ladies on the board do have a crush arayd. but all us girls on the blog know our baseball too. it’s not like we’re just supporting him because he’s handsome.

oh and for the record. they’re not all crushes on andre. amy loves matt. i love russell. us girls are all about all the good looking boys, not just andre. haha :)

Thank Dnelly! I truly appreciate your den-mothering and your words of encouragement! [btw is denmothering really a word? or did I just make it up? I hope it makes it pass the censor--LOL ] My best to everyone here at ITD!….. GO DODGERS!!!

I don’t think I have a crush on Andre…For me, Pierre fit in perfectly the other night by pinch hitting, and stealing a base and providing a little energy off the bench.

oh scott, btw.. i’ve been meaning to ask you.. did you start a dodgers group on facebook? i was looking for something the other day and i saw a group started by a scott in whittier or something.. and it made me think it was you..

okay – one last comment – yes, Andre is gorgeous, but I loved Mike Scoscia back in the day and all the others in between, too. LOL!!! Thanks sara for supporting the girls of baseball knowledge – now I’m going for sure!!
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jhall – Go Indians!!!! I need Jhonny to get some good points. Andre sitting on that rail isn’t good for fantasy points, you know, but hopefully he has a good game tonight, too.
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Wally and Beav -Your dad called and asked if you were behaving, and I said, of course, dear!! LOL!!

oh and dnelly, i’m going to be able to get you andre’s before the bigs. i’m going to try and get the other episodes of some of the guys.. i told them to put any of the dodgers ones on there if possible. so hopefully loney’s. they haven’t really been replaying russell’s with all the new ones now, but maybe they will show it again soon.

sara – jungar started a facebook for ITD – I know, I’m going – LOL!!
.
obi – most certainly welcome and I don’t know if it’s a word or not, but I can look it up and let you know- LOL!!

thanks sara – very cool!!!

The simple fact is that Pierre’s productivity has gone down dramatically. Look at the facts:

Triples: 2006-13; 2007-8, 2009-1.

Doubles: 2006-32, 2007-24, 2008-9.

His days off do not make up for this great discrepancy.
Also, His BA, OBP, and OBS are all down.
If you want to say that he is producing less because of the stress from the competition, what about the impact this has had on Andre?

As far as I am concerned, Andre’s extra-base hit production and defense more than makes up for any occasional speed Juan brings the lineup.
Until a few days ago, Andre was leading the team in home runs. He got passed as home leader because you cannot hit a homerun sitting on the bench.

I have a crush on Manny right now and Im a dude! lol haha

sara – nope, wasn’t me. I don’t have a facebook page.

Did Manny really get $1 Million for getting traded? What!?! Who does that?
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

i didn’t say the andre crush thing as a sly insult. obviously you posters know your stuff. who else sees a WS this year? Best pitching in the NL. 2 great new bats. improved bench. anybody feeling it? it won’t be easy, but i really think this team has the POTENTIAL to make the series and maybe take it.

Wow, great line-up! Jungar, I’m curious to see your lineup card(s) if you had a healthy Furcal ? Or if you only had a healthy Nomar?

Furcal
Martin
Kemp
Manny
Loney. 1B
Kent. 2B
Blake. 3B
Ethier
Billingsley. P

( i have to think a little more on this. But here is my gut reaction… I do think Martin would be a great two hole hitter and not sure if Kemp is ready yet for 3 hole. Although last season after break he hit like .340 from 3 hole.)

Kemp
Ethier
Martin
Manny
Loney
Kent
Blake
Nomar

arayd, welcome to the blog. I liked Juan Pierre too, and rooted for him to come up strong in his leadoff role, so the Ned Colletti “Los Angeles is gonna love Juan Pierre” prophecy would come true. I’ve long believed if we’re going to win, Pierre’s speed and baserunning tenacity was going to be a huge part of it. I’ve defended the guy too.

Then he went and messed it up with his “they’re sticking it to me” interview. Now, I”m tired of the guy. If I had gone to the media or blogged publicly about how my employers’ “sticking it to me” and not giving me enough hours, I’d be fired the next day. Any of us would, from Fast Foodies to Cubicle Jockeys to COO and CEO’s. At the very least, we’d expect to see a falloff of hours, and would start making our plans elsewhere.

I liked Odalis Perez too, and rooted for him to silence his naysayers. Then he not only quit on his team, he quit on his CHILDREN’S CHARITY because he didn’t feel he got enough credit in the media for his work with the kids. I won’t pretend that the two are equal in that light, but I know that the disdain for the philosophy of Playing For The Name On The Front Of The Jersey is eerily similar. The fans don’t want to see Juan Pierre win, they want to see the DODGERS win.

And yeah, Juan might’ve been quicker and gotten under that tag to beat the DBags (sic) on Thursday. But, had he started the night before (or even brought in as a defensive replacement) instead of Dre, we would’ve been on the road to another classic Dodgers-Giants 9th inning meltdown, because from where I sat (Infield Reserve 1B side), there was no way Juan could’ve thrown out the runner at the plate the way Ethier did.

That being said, I’m always happy to have Juan perform well, and would never wish for him or any other Dodger to get hurt, they’re our guys, after all. I’m just vastly disappointed that he would chose to vent in front of cameras and microphones… paying Torre the same respect others paid to Grady the year before, except that JOE TORRE’S PLAYING JUAN PIERRE!!! How was that even an issue for him?!!! “If Andruw starts hitting well, I’ll probably be back on the bench”.

1.) yes, and if poo tasted like chocolate, then Hershey would be out of business.

2.) I’m not a manager by any means, much less a future HOF manager, but if we want to win, if any Dodger is doing well enough to be the starting outfielder, then they should… I don’t know… BE STARTING IN THE OUTFIELD.

3.) The fact that he doesn’t even mention Andre Ethier in this is a slap in the face. If it’s as you say, and they both have equal talents the other doesn’t, it’s messed up to be worring about Sub-Mendoza Jones going on a tear and not even mention the guy who is your “equal”.

But, as long as the Dodgers keep winning, what I or anyone else thinks is unimportant. It’s what the Dodgers DO that will get us through October.

Manny Has Made Dodgers More Than $125K
5th August, 2008 – 4:51 pm
The Los Angeles Times – Manny Ramirez has made the Dodgers more than $125,000 since he was acquired from the Red Sox last week, according to The Los Angeles Times.

Fans have purchased more than $125,000 worth of No. 99 t-shirts and jerseys since last Thursday at Dodger Stadium.

Tonights lineup

NO PIERRE

Kemp. CF
Ethier. RF
Martin. C
Ramirez. LF
Loney. 1B
Kent. 2B
Blake. 3B
Berroa. SS
Billingsley. P

arayad, I think the Dodgers have GREAT October potential as we stand now. The pitching staff is top notch, especially for a 3 man rotation. With Manny, it’s a whole new offense, and if Furcal’s able to come back, we become that much better. And Penny’s on his way back as well.

It’s a terrible time to be a DBags fan right now, I’d imagine.

Wow, awesome lineup, the return of the Kemp-Ethier one-two punch.

great line up! Welcome Back Mr. Ethier :)
How we’ve missed you so!

Think Pierre is sulking?
I bet Druw isn’t.

Wow, JOJO must be listening to the ITD!!! :-)
Now lets get some redbird!!!!

I am excited to see our boys play on the road with Manny. The fact that they are 10 games over .500 is a little unsettling. Someone give me how we play against these people? I have no clue. haha
.
oh yea, I changed my id :) still the same Matt loving girl ;)

We always struggle with STL, hopefully we can take 2 out of 3 if not sweep them. Carpenter probably is on a pitch count tonight and probably will go 5 at the most.

northstate- that was a lovely post. I like how you got your point across without sounding mean or hateful. You showed that you understand both sides of the issue and presented it in a calm manner. It means a lot to me that you expressed your opinion and it didn’t feel like you were attacking us Juan supporters.
thanks man!
.
Go BLUE!!

thanks scurtis. That’s what i figure. We generally don’t do well against teams with winning records, I don’t know, it’s our thing.
But with Manny the whole teams seems fired up and on a positive note. So hopefully we can win some baseball games!!

Here’s an interesting list of efficient base stealers. Notice #4 on the list as well as who is missing from this list (Pierre).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=baker/080801

YW Amy. Im so excited and more confident with Manny here.

Manny changes everything. He’s not just a HR hitter, but a very smart hitter who hits for average and waits for his pitch. He has no issues with going to right center for a double instead of swinging for the LF fence on a pitch outside. Tough to pitch to, period. Also, he is not fat, which has been a problem for some of our player(s).

Wow check this out, this is cool. Manny ariving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXtqnjwmBWU

Slappy= Bad ball player, A– hole. Ethier= much better ball player, class act.

scurtis, thanks for the youtube Manny video. That was great.

great video- already forwarded it on to my Manny loving father.

your welcome. That was an awesome video.

Go Billz!! Go Dodgers!! Go Pirates!!!!

thanks scurtis, that was awesome!

Wow, Pierre day! Stats are stats, but remember Uncle Joe goes by “feel.” That said…who has the ability to change any game with one swing? Andre or Juan? Who has the ability to change any gamed with one throw, Andre or Juan? Who ignited this team the past few weeks, Andre or Juan? Who has kept his mouth shut, his agent’s mouth shut, and his mama’s mouth shut all year, Andre or Juan? Who never walks because the pitcher never fears him, Andre or Juan? Who is probably on waivers right now and has the Dodger brass praying someone will claim him, Andre or Juan? I’ve said all along, I don’t hate Pierre…it’s Uncle Joe’s persistence in playing him and gushing over him that has made him a target of hatred amongst Dodger fans. I BLAME JOE.

that same video was on the mlb home page earlier today.

From Tony Jackson of the Daily News on Pierre’s complaints “Although Torre said he was aware of the comments, he said he hadn’t actually read them. My guess is this (the starting lin-up) had nothing to do with that. Strangely timed comments, though, I must admit.

Keep that lineup Joe so even if we lose we won’t feel that bad.
I know we can’t expect it every night but it’s a nice looking outfield.
Believe me it can’t be better.
Looks just like the lineup I take to bed every night.
I hate playing the Cardinals and I hope this team of ours can make me like playig the Cardinals.
Go BILZ!!!! GO DODGERS!!!!

JP will be in the lineup tomorrow vs Pinerio. I would almost bet the house on it.

PierreEMW,
Good to read you again! I also hate playing the Cards. The only time I went to St Louis was for a 4 game series and we lost all the games! I still remember seeing the repetition of Odaliz Perez giving up a dinger to Pujols that they kept showing up that night at this restaurant bar we went that night. I kept seeing myself in back of this Dodger fan that caught the ball.

Let’s go Billz!

crzblue- will you be at the clinic next weekend? if so will you be my friend there? I am going alone! :(

Good evening all. I like tonights lineup, not to mention the fact that two of the most feared hitters in the game are playing. Mr. Pujols, meet Mr. Ramirez.

GO DODGERS!!!

jj- i am looking forward to it :)
.
GO DODGERS!!!!!

Amy, thanks for the comment on my eariler post. I’m disappointed that after all the media stories on how he’s a good guy, and after many fans defend him in the Ethier/Pierre debate, he showed that his personal achievments mattered more to him than the team as a whole, in front of the Los Angeles media.

Not a good role model for the kids, but I guess everyone makes mistakes. I had initially felt bad for Juan that Torre was ending his streak seemingly to “make a point”. If that interview was any indication, Joe was onto something.

Kahli ~ fabulous post!! (I like the approach of how you presented those questions – very nice)
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Northstateblues – wonderful post!! I think alot of fans are going to feel like you do after yesterday’s comments from JP. For me, those comments just validated why Andre is the better all-around ball player.
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GO DODGERS!!!!!!
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MATT,ANDRE,RUSSELL,MANNY,JAMES, JEFF,BLAKE,ANGEL AND OF COURSE CHAD!!! LET’S GO BOYS!!! GET A WIN FOR BOBLEE!!!!

I’m happy Ethier is back and playing. I’m sure he will do a home run tonight… ONE HOME RUN FOR ALL HIS FANS…lov ya Andre you are the best. GO DODGERS!

you are welcome Northstate. You made your points in a classy way. I’m not going to jump all over JP, but I appreciate the way you carried yourself in your post :)
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YEA for Andre!!!
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YEA for Matt :) ( just had to throw that one in)

Matt struck out

why isn’t anyone posting

and a single for Pujols

Hello!!!! Anyone here

This is, 1-9, the best line-up we’ve seen all season. Kemp, Ethier, Martin, with manny cleaning up and Loney hitting behind him, and the ace on the mound.

finally

Looks like another “home Town” strike zone .. Bills is getting squeezed. Needs the Card batters to swing.

Cy Carpenter

Oh wait, he is a Cy Young winner lol

and Mannys up and …..
he flies out to right

a single for kent

and the inning is over
0 – 0 in the middle of the 2nd

k for C Billi

arayd, I ask you to ponder this. JP for all his speed and for all his ability to make contact has so few doubles (something like 9 I believe) and yet another player with only moderate speed (Ethier) has 24 doubles. I was always taught that to get extra base hits you need just a little bit of power. Poor bloody JP has absolutley none. He just hasn’t got the ability to hit the ball to the fence. That’s my 2cents worth and given the state of the Aussie dollar recently that’s almost the same value as yours.

runners in the corners for the cards

k for C Billi

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at the end of the 2nd

look at chad running that out!!

C Billi has a single

Kemp missed a home run by 4 feet

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at in the middle of the 3rd

k for C Billi

from the PE blog..

Andre Ethier is in the lineup for the first time since Manny Ramirez was acquired in a trade, and Manager Joe Torre expects to continue using him primarily off the bench while giving him a start here and there.

“Every day I say something to him about patience, giving me some time, and he’s been fine with it,” Torre said. “Especially if he was playing off the bench, I’d like to give him some action.”

“I can’t give you an argument against Ethier. I can just give you an argument for Juan (Pierre). The job for us when (Rafael) Furcal went down and the quality of at-bats and the speed he gives us.”

i think that answers the question about whether this was a spot start for ethier.. damn it joe!! =P

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at the end of the 3rd

Billz is pitching great so far!!! Keep it up Chad!!!

looking at Russle’s #’s he does better on the road

sara – I really didn’t expect anything to change – it’s Joe, remember :) We haven’t trusted him all season, why should we be trusting him now?

Amy,
Yes, I will be there! I already signed up for it. And of course I’ll be your friend! You know if if you are among Dodger fans, everyone is your friend! We all have that in common. I know you will have a great time. I don’t know how to play but I always go. Sweet Lou was giving me a hard time ’cause I could not get the batting stand correclty and he said as much time as I spend at the stadium, I should know. You will have a great time and meet more ladies there that share the same passion for Baseball and the Dodgers.

and Manny hits a single

Carpenter is a though nut!!!!

Hope we can get him out of there in 5!!!

loney hits into a double play

Rats!!®

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at in the middle of the 4th

dnelly, i had no doubt. i was just posting that to reassure everyone else that joe is in fact, still joe..

Hey jhall!!! Looks like we might have a pitcher’s duel tonight

oh gosh.. that was an adventure.. i’ll tell you, the man in LF does not look pretty trying to track flyballs..

No doubt mom!!!

yay amy.. crzblue is going to be there too! you’ll have so much fun~ you’ll have to tell me all about it!! :)

omg, dnelly, jhall, and enchanted.. did you guys just hear steve lyons and charley steiner talking about the beaver??

oh and amy, still jealous btw =P

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at the end of the 4th

sara – I’m just going to remain confident that Andre knows who the best outfielders are, and as long as he keeps his head up and keeps saying the right things, he will win in the end. He already has won in the eyes of the thousands and thousands of Dodger fans, and even the media is starting to see what we’ve been seeing, which is a good thing as well.

dnelly, i’m POSITIVE andre knows..

and the inning is over
0 – 0 at in the middle of the 5th

sara – I left the room, so no, I didn’t hear the comment from Charlie about the beaver- lol!!!

we have a duel

Sara, I missed it. What did they say?

rain delay!!!!!!

carpenter is probably done after this rain delay..

Boblee is there watching the game – lol!!

Rain, rain, go away…

oh it was really nothing.. they were talking about the cardinals player joe mather cuz he was batting.. and then they tried to remember the name of the actor who played “the beev”.. and then they remembered jerry mathers.. i just thought it was funny since we’ve been living in leave it to beaver references for a while now! :)

oh, they picked something good to show during the rain delay.. this in my own words with jeff kent is one of the best interviews he’s ever given.

but i still want the rain to stop!!

sara – still funny that it was mentioned :)

We had some killer storms here last night in Chicago.

That I have seen, and yes, it is a good interview, but yes, the rain needs to stop

Merci Sara, Mon Amie!!

I think I am done with my play by play

jhall – are you watching the Indians now? This is a good game, too. I was watching it until the Dodger game came on, and now I am back to it.

Radar doesn’t look that bad.

I figured it was just a spot start for Andre tonight, which sucks. I think it’s hard for any player to be consistent under those circumstances and I think Andre is especially the type of hitter that needs to get into a groove, kind of like a rhythm quarterback.

Arayd13, though we may not be blind to Andre’s looks, it has nothing to do with why we think he should be starting over Pierre. We think he is a better player and there are a lot of guys on the blog who feel that way too. I totally respect your right to your opinion, and Amy’s right to hers as well. We don’t think you feel that way because you have a man crush on Pierre, but because you like what he brings to the table. That is the reason we feel the way we do about Andre. The ladies on this blog all know their stuff. I’ve been a Dodger fan since before Andre was born and I’ve seen a lot of players come and go. I happen to think he has one of the sweetest swings I’ve ever seen and great potential and I want to see him realize it, hopefully with the Dodgers.

It just had to happen. The one game we get a chance to finally see our best outfielders it rains. Ned must have been doing a rain dance.

and they’re back!

well said bluecrewgirl

Bravo Bleu Fille’!!!!

matty never had a chance at that ball..

nice throw russell!!!

way to strike out pujols chad!!

Russle guns it to third

strike out, throw ‘em out is always great

Oui Nelle’, video le Indians. Bien gibier.

Rain delay!!!!!!!

Bluecrewgirl – BRAVO!! ~ As much as I want Andre to be a Dodger, he IS NOT a bench player. He needs to be playing EVERYDAY, and they need to ethier play him or trade him at this point. With the Mannymania sure to get him signed, and JP and Jones not going anywhere because nobody wants them, and Matt being Matt, which is what we wanted for him. This is not what the Dodger fans want for Andre. I know he is going to do everything he can to make the best out of the situation. I have no doubts, but he is too good of a ballplayer to be a bench player. He runs circles around JP and Jones right now, and needs to play as such.

The Cards are one of the teams the Dodgers have to learn to beat.

What the hell. Why bring them back out and then back to a rain delay.

aww.. crap.. come on rain~

dnelly, they’re showing dre’s before the bigs right now..

Ratieres!!!!

pierreeast, for the many years I’ve been a Dodger fan, I NEVER look forward to them going to St. Louis, Shea, or Philly. Just seems like the baseball gods aren’t very kind to them in those haunted halls.

this is hilarious.. this guy makes a video about beimel.. and keeps pointing to a beimel shirt that he made, but he spelled joe’s name wrong..

Well. Andre is playing, i would rather see him hit 7th or 8th since Blake is a better hitter. He better start producing or he’ll be regulated too a very minor role in this pennant race. We need hitters.

lol

Ethier will find it hard to get his swing back with spot starts every 5 or so games. Can you imaging Joe’s conversation with him?
.
“Sorry Andre. We gave you a shot but that 0-2 was just was not good enough. Juan, You’re up.”

oh sara – this story is so heart felt – Wow!! It makes me that more impressed :)

Snakes up 2-0 vs Pirates.

Andre is a hitter and Blake is not more talented, just more experienced and it takes playing every day consistently to get there.

yay! dnelly, they’re showing it up there too? yeah, i tear up when he starts talking about his grandpa.. andre’s such a good guy.. love it!

sara – the Dodgers need to keep him :(

It certainly explains why he is doing what he is doing, and taking every experience with the attitude he has.

Did you get to see it DNelly? I hope so.

jhall – what happened to the Indians? 8-4, what is this – lol!!! I leave to watch Andre and the Indians fall apart. Jhonny got me some good points, though :)

Well, I’m home to finish watching game on TV if not called for rain, which would suck if score stays as is and is an official game, as rain all over the area now.

Allright, Game is back on. our favorite player is up

Come on Ethier, put us back in this game

oh Boblee – I’m so sorry!! I was thinking of you!! Billz was pitching really well.
.
bluecrewgirl – yes, I did get to see it – what a wonderful story. I really want him to stay as a Dodger, but bcg, he is not a bench player – he needs to play everyday. However, for what he has gone through, he will be sured to prove them wrong once again.

Glad you got to see it. Yes, he has earned what he has. Steve Lyons even just commented on how hard it is to be consistent being jerked in and out of the lineup.

Charlie Steiner obviously hasn’t been watching the games lately. He just called ********** a pleasant surprise.

This stinks. CBill only 5 innings.

Falkenborg pitched for the Cards. They know how to hit him. Get him out of there.

That is why Andre needs to play everyday – runners don’t run on him. JP they run on all day.

We’re in trouble with Ankiel up

Bring in Biemel to put out the fire.

Falkenborg reminds me of Gumps chocolate box. You never know what you’ll get. I don’t think he’s any good, and have no confidence in him whatsoever.

Rats and crap, give them a few more runs.

Great play, Matt, lets get out of this inning.

Lol, jhall, good analogy. I know with See’s Candy out here, I hate when I think I am getting a fruit cream and it ends up being a maple cream. I spit those ones out.

Now lets get some Damn runs. I’m tire of the Cards beating us all the time.

Matt and Andre’s outfield plays just showed why Pierre doesn’t belong in the outfield for defensive purposes, and we are going to have more games like this than not.

Crap. Loney’s dp’s are killing us.

The Cards pitchers aren’t that good. where’s our fire and momentum we had in LA.

I hate the freaking Cardinals.

It looks like the boys are coming back down to earth a little bit after all the mannymania over the weekend.

We stink against the Cards.

I hate Park pitching top Albert.

2.5 back after 2nite and probably 4 after this series.

I knew that was going to happen. Just felt it. I really hate to go to the game again tomorrow. Especially with my Cardinal loving son.

The Cardinals and the Pads always seem to have our number. Frustrating.

Welcome back to the Major Leagues DRUW!

“ah crap”-Juan Pierre

congrats andrew you have more homeruns than manny as a dodger.

A N D R U W

BobLee we feel for you. Hopefully we get 4 more here and u can talk smack to your son.

BOOYA!

That’ll be 6 million dollars please.

-Andruw

3-1 Snakes 2 out for Pitt runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Snakes win!

Andre got a hit – yeah!!!
.
Nice job Andruw!!

How hilarious would that be in Fatty is in the lineup tomorrow with Slappy on the bench? I kind of hope it happens. I used to not like Pierre because he sucks on the field. Now I hate him because he’s a crappy teammate. So now I won’t mind seeing Jones in there once in a while if it means Slappy doesn’t get to play.

come one manny

C’mon Manny!

piere should be in 1st base pinch running

4 – 2
come on come on

DP to end game or a 3 run double in the gap to put us ahead.

Still breathing!

4 – 3
come on come on

thats why piere should not be a pinch hitter but a pinch runner

Let’s go Casey!!!!

Pierre already came in to pinch hit and did his usual – an out.

Good timely hitting by the OLE’ RELIABLE after LONEY’s little sqibbler.
Let’s go!!!LET’S GO!!!!!

Tuned in 5 minutes ago
Jones hit it out !?!?!?!
\I tune out and look what happens

DRUW leads the comeback!

tie game!!!!!!!!!!!!

New ball game!

whos warming up in the pen

Oh no – Sweeney!

line drive base OHHHH!

Again C A S E Y lowered the boom.
A brand new game.
Nice comeback
MARVELOUS

See, all this happened and we didn’t need JP to do it.
Good going Dodgers – new ball game!!

Let’s hold it Wade!

this will suck if we lose

Great job by Wade to get out of that jam.

Wade has really come through lately, even in pressure situations.

SHUT THEM DOWN AFTER WE DUMPED ON THEM.
That’s the way to do it.

We still have to prove we can bark with the big dogs. Great comeback but now, we need to close the deal.

Indians blew it. Let’s go Dodgers!!!!

did you see the left fielder for the cards working on his batting stance and swing while they were pitching to eithier

That should make Ethier fans happy.

Andre! Man, Charlie Steiner has mispoken a lot tonight. He just said Andre was on 3rd instead of Matt and in the previous inning he said they had 2 outs instead of 1.

So far hitting in front of Manny hasn’t helped Martin, at least not yet.

Is this how Giants fans felt when Barry came to the plate?

Saw that coming!!!!

pitching around manny

……………………………………..

It’s up to you, JL!!! Go get em’ !!!!

NICE TRY

Another opportunity wasted!

That was a golden opportunity. Too bad we didn’t cash it in.

Wow!! what an inning!! This Ethier fan is proud!!
.
Let’s Go Cory – one more inning!!

Pierreseastmeetswest, hope you are feeling better.

lbirken – yes, this is how Giants fans felt when Barry came up to bat :)

It’s all part of the game.

I am not sure you are aware of this, but Josh has a new thread :)

I am, I was just waiting for everyone else to move there.

oh ok good

Whew!!! Find a way guys!!!

Atta W A D E to go.
What a game and against a team like the Cardinals.

I think I’ll move to the new thread

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