Russ is Golden…so is this interview with Joe

Russell Martin was just named the NL Gold Glove winner which is really something else. With everything he’s accomplished in such a short time, this is another amazing feat. Our sincere congratulations go out to him from everyone at the organization.

Silver Slugger Awards are announced later this week so hopefully he’ll be on that list, too.

On another note, in a pretty impressive feat, FSN Prime Ticket has managed to put together a half-hour special on Joe Torre like the ones you’ve been seeing from them the last two years.

Joe Torre, "In My Own Words," will air tonight following Lakers Live postgame.

It will also air on FSN West on Thursday 11/8 at 10 p.m. and Saturday, 11/10 at 10:30 p.m. It will re-air on FSN Prime Ticket tomorrow, 11/7 at 10 p.m., Friday, 11/9 at 10:30 p.m., Sunday, 11/11 at 10 p.m., Monday, 11/12 at 4 p.m., Tuesday, 11/13 at 10 p.m. and Friday, 11/16 at 10:30 p.m.

Hopefully you’ll get to catch this show, as Charley Steiner and Joe sat for 30 minutes at the end of the press conference yesterday to allow you to get an idea of his thoughts on his first day as Dodger manager.


Wow there already is an In My Own Words about him? It took Jeff Kent almost 3 years to get one. Jeff will surely be displeased.

congrats to Russell. I actually didn’t think he’d win this. He’s a shoe in for silver slugger.

Good job Russ !!!

Great job, Russell. Grow up Max, your negative bs is infantile and annoying.



I saw someone mentioning putting Furcal in CF and Hu at SS in one of these posts and I think that is actually a pretty cool idea – as long as Pierre is not in LF of course.

I’m still undecided on A-Rod…

Get rid of Pierre and I’ll be happy with whatever is left pretty much.

Why would you want to take one of the top SS in the league and put him at another position?


Hu is a apparently a very good SS as well and Furcal would make a good CF with his speed and great arm.

I’m not saying it’s my first choice, but something to consider down the road.

Here’s a new idea:

Trade something for Eric Chavez to be the 3B. (local boy, good defense, new life)

Sign Hunter to play CF.

Trade JP anywhere or tellhim he’s the 4th OF or pinch runner.

Trade La Roche, Elbert, McDonald and Ethier/Kemp for Santana.

1b loney

2b kent/abreu

ss furcal

3b chavez

c martin

lf young/ethier

cf hunter

rf kemp/ethier

sp penny

sp lowe

sp bills

sp santana

sp schmidt/loaiza

rp saito

rp brox

rp beimel

rp tsao

rp proctor

bench: nomar, jp, repko

Scott while that would make us a good team this year and for a while I think it’s rather unrealistic. The trade for Santana would deplete our resources to land Chavez.

I said something about Chavez a long time ago. I wouldn’t mind that but everybody ripped me for saying that.

I think we’d probably be better off Signing Jones and moving Pierre either to Left or to another club.

If Ethier is the odd man out I think we could get a pretty decent middle of the rotation type of pitcher for him which is exactly what we need. That being said Kemp and Ethier should not be traded!


Terrible on all counts

Terrible on all counts

Posted by: | November 6, 2007 02:31 PM

Well, the lineup as is will not cut it, so let’s hear your solution genius.

1.Pierre LF
2.Furcal SS

3.A-Rod 3B

4.Kent 2B

5.Loney 1B

6.Kemp CF

7.Martin C

8.Ethier RF








Leiberthal, Abreu, Repko

Sweeny Nomar


Loaiza Hendrickson Brazoban

Proctor Beimel Broxton Saito

This should be the opening day 25 man roster. Should win us a world series


i think the lakers is doing pretty good rayt now! and im sure they would be alot better as Farmar and Bynum matture alot more!

and that’s becoz of waiting! if u have good young players don’t waste their talents! coz u know they are good… why the **** would u trade them!

The Dodgers should do the same! they need to keep all the young players that they know would be a big impact for a long years to come!

congrats russell

congrats to martin!

u want chavez? god what’s happening to the world?!

if they can’t sign ARod just let LaRoche play!

no other options! Chavez… LOL

We may be still looking for a 3rd basemen but we sure found a catcher.


i caught replay coverage of the Dodgers press conference last night, and Joe Torre was interviewed by our local reporters here in LA and said that mattingly would do the hitting and he would be conducting further interviews for bench coach this week.

Bowa is the 3rd base coach according to Torre.

JAN: right is spelled RIGHT not RAYT. I’m not the greatest speller, but can you explain why you spell it that way.








is still the best most plausible lineup there is.

copied and pasted from’s article.

2007 Gold Glove winners


C Ivan Rodriguez, DET

1B Kevin Youkilis, BOS

2B Placido Polanco, DET

3B Adrian Beltre, SEA

SS Orlando Cabrera, LAA

OF Ichiro Suzuki, SEA

OF Torii Hunter, MIN

OF Grady Sizemore, CLE

P Johan Santana, MIN


C Russell Martin, LAD

1B Derrek Lee, CHC

2B Orlando Hudson, ARI

3B David Wright, NYM

SS Jimmy Rollins, PHI

OF Carlos Beltran, NYM

OF Andruw Jones, ATL

OF Jeff Francoeur, ATL

P Aaron Rowand, PHI

P Greg Maddux, SD

My Dream Solution w/ Arod:

Martin C

Loney 1B

LaRoche 2B

Hu(pending Raffy traded) SS

A-Rod 3B

Kemp RF

Jones/Hunter CF

Ethier(pending Pierre dump)LF




Schmidt/Wolf/Kuo/Louiza (to round out rotation)

Proctor 7th inning

Broxton 8th inning

Siato 9th inning


Now Without A/rod:

Martin C

Loney 1b

Hu/Kent/Nomar(in that order)2B

Raffy SS

LaRoche 3B

Kemp RF

Jones/Hunter CF

Ethier/Pierre(in that order)LF

Same staff

Same bullpen


Bottom line, No trades! Not with Ned in there. And no FA signing unless they bring Jones/Hunter or Arod.

Congrats Russ. You’ve proven your the best!

Its simple all we have to do:
1. Sign A-Rod

2. Sign Pettitte

3. Move Pierre to left, Kemp to center.

And we have a championship team

Congratulations Russell Martin. I haven’t been happier with a Dodgers catcher since Scioscia.

oh yeah!

in the philippines texting is alot cheaper than having a call… here it’s different.. phone call is alot cheaper!

i got used on spelling it rayt…


Have the silver slugger awards been announced yet? I think russ should get that too.


do u get what i mean?

i text all the time.. i need to shorten up the words so it’ll be easier to finish what i have to say… LOL

Silver slugger awards are announced on November 9th.

Russell is surely a lock for one.

anyway it’s just one letter short but still alot faster!



Oh wow! congratulations Russell! That is totally awesome! We are so proud of you!

O.K Jan, RAYT it is on text. Does anybody know about the blog called DODGER TALK? it seems to be very lonely.

I’m thrilled Bowa is on the staff. In general, I think the more former MLB skippers the better… I hope Mel Stoudamire is pitching coach…

I also hope Torre interviews my man Dave Duncan for bench coach. I doubt it will happen though because I am aware of how loyal Duncan is to LaRussa. Duncan would make a great manager…

N.L All-Star Starting Catcher

Best Defensive Catcher (Gold Glove)

Silver Slugger on the way

Congrats Russ and once again I’d like to thank Mrs. Martin for giving birth to him. The first of many to come!

Swood: Mel Stottlemyre recently signed as pitching coach of Mariners. There are a # of NBA players named Stoudamire but none of them are Mel. Your posts can be very self-indulgent; please more thought, more preparation then better posts.

Hu has played all of 45 games at AAA Vegas. Can we see a bit more of him before we trade away our 2006 MVP, Furcal, to make way for him?

Way to go Russell!! If we are looking for pitching, how about Erik Bedard from the Orioles? Considerably cheaper than Santana and probably not as costly in terms of young players. Two years on his present contract. Possibility of long term contract and a Canadian connection with Russell.


At least we have Loaiza…

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Curt Schilling and the Boston Red Sox finalized an $8 million, one-year contract Tuesday that keeps the star right-hander with the World Series champions.

In 8 seasons Furcal has 177 errors. In 8 seasons Rollins has 88 errors.

Crazy. Rollins also has one more gold glove, with 1.

Furcal at 15 million is a bad contract. But then versus Coletti’s other contracts it’s a great one.

I guess fielding matters….

Russ Rocks!

Rollins has also played 500+ more innings at SS than Furcal (9700+ vs. 9200+), yet he trails Furcal in assists at SS 3293 to 3101. Raffy’s range >> Jimmy’s.

(or maybe Jimmy’s played behind a heckuva lotta fly-ball pitchers!)

Martin is obviously the best all around catcher in the game, Silver Slugger or not.

The Dodgers should jump at Santana. They have the position players to get him (one of my blogs). The Twins have plenty of young pitching and thats what other teams have to offer. The Dodgers get him with a deal around LaRoche & Kemp or Ethier.

Signing Arod means no Santana, and the Dodgers need long term solution in that rotation more than their offense. Lowe & Penny are limited. Santana & Billinglsy at the top the next 5 years sounds better than Arod.

Michael | November 6, 2007 05:14 PM

So if you trade LaRoche and Kemp (they won’t settle for Ethier instead) for Santana – assuming an extension, for it makes no sense otherwise – you are left with an OF of Young, Pierre and Ethier, I guess, and Nomar at third. That does not cut it, so I think your idea is incomplete.

Ricky, I think we all agree we need a middle of the order stick, but history shows that those players are developed from within and when not those players usually go on to play for teams that never make it to WS. About the only recent example I can think of that does not support this is the Red Sox.

Posted by: | November 6, 2007 12:19 PM


jungar, I think you probably said this off-the-cuff, but I do not think it is true. Besides the 2007 and 2004 Red Sox you mentioned:

2007 Rockies: in house

2006,2004 Cards: Pujols in-house, but Edmonds, Rolen by trade

2006 Tigers: Ordonez FA, Guillen trade

2005 WhiteSox: Konerko trade, Dye FA

2005 Astros: Ensberg, Berkman in house

2003 Marlins: Lowell, Lee trade, Cabrera in house

2003 (and previous) Yankees: always a mix

2002 Angels: all in house

2002 Giants: Bonds FA, Kent trade

2001 DBacks: Gonzo trade (all mercenary team, really)

2000 Mets: Piazza trade (now I’m dredging up bad memories)

(The 2000 and 2001 AL teams were the Yankees.)


thanks for the was an interesting read, and the blogger does have some good points if you’re a yadier molina fans. But i’m sure us dodger fans can make some good point for Martin winning the gold glove as well.

But then again, the only thing that matters is the votes, and now Martin is a gold glove winner and Molina is not 🙂

jspelk, from the comments section of that link:

The statement that Molina “also led NL catchers in putouts per nine innings.” is false.

Molina: 582 PO, 861.3 Innings = 6.08 PO/9 innings (.136 if you remove strikeouts)

Martin: 1065 PO, 1254 Innings = 7.64 PO/9 innings (.244 if you remove strikeouts)

Molina also had 7 PBs compared to Martin’s 5.

Molina would be a deserving winner but compared to Rafael Palmeiro’s 1999 GG despite playing only 30-something games there, this is nothing.


The Gold Glove is very subjective. Period. The voters are the managers and coaches of the league.

i also think Pujols should have won again at 1st. From what I saw D Lee didn’t look that great this year. You’re right its very subjectve, they get it wrong lots of time.

Maybe the managers and coaches are just voting against LaRussa!

Pujols over Lee this year, definitely. Next year, James Loney!

Good to see a post again from Euhlman, haven’t heard from you in awhile, always enjoyed you’re comments

How did Todd Helton not win the Gold Glove at first base? He made 1 error I think?

CONGRATS to my boy Russ Martin!!!! He deserves it especially over that fat lazy catcher in STL. I can’t believe that article Martin defitnetly deserves it, he’s a joy to watch.

I just read this on buster Olney’s article this better not be true.

The most interesting trade parameter mentioned is what the Marlins may ask the Dodgers for, in return for All-Star third baseman Miguel Cabrera: third baseman Andy LaRoche, minor league pitcher Clay Kershaw, and an outfielder 23 perhaps Matt Kemp.

I do not want to trade our three best prospects for an overweight third baseman that will have to move to first after a few more pounds. COLLETTI don’t do it!!! Don’t let him JOE!!!!

We don’t need to trade Kershaw. Some kind of deal with LaRoche and somebody else for Cabrera would be fine with me. Kemp should not be traded unless you get a replacement for him in the outfield and some pitching. I hope we do find a trade that will get him out of town because we need more starting pitching.

congratulation to Russ
I would think somebody like Aaron Rowand who can hit the ball and won a gold glove in center and would not ask for the kind of money A-rod is asking for then bring in a proven 3rd baseman via trade(miguel cabrera) or free agency and then add another arm to the starting rotation because after last year when smidth and wolf went down so did the team and somebody please tell me that were not going to keep hendrickson.

2008 Los Angeles Dodgers Starting Line-up
1B Furcal

2B Martin

CF Rowand

3B Cabrera

2B Kent

1B Loney

RF Kemp

Lf Piere

I thought I’d mentioned that I read this morning in the Daily News( N.Y.) that Miguel Cabrera has an expanding wasteline & poor work ethics, but the Marlins want the best players for him. Isn’t this crazy if he’s going to be a free agent next year? I also like to add that the Dodgers should keep Rick Honeycut, I think he did a good job last year and there is no reason to put a stranger in his place.

I’ll take this line-up:









Starting Pitchers:












Hendy-Long Relief Only








I don’t need A-Rod or Cabrera. Give me that line-up and lets go to the World Series.

Oh Yeah, I’d like to see a former Dodger as bench coach. Larry Bower is truly a fine addition to the coaching staff and an upgrade to Donnelly. Mattingly would be better as hitting coach. I see Dave Jauss found himself a job with the Orioles. A-Rod still looks like a fine investment but of course we just have to wait and see.

w0w cameron…

our all-star, gold glove catcher and soon to be getting the silver slugger award should hit in the 8th spot for you…

that lineup isn’t going to give u a world series ring!

ur obviously a Kemp hater! and that is because?(what u read on some stupid articles)

u like hendy but u hate Kemp?

u like Kent but u hate Kemp? w0w!

Yeah I’d have Martin batting 8th. I don’t want my catcher running the bases all game long plus catching 9 innings pus he’s patient enough to take a walk so the pitcher can bunt him over. I don’t hate Kemp I just don’t like him and it has nothing to do with what I read. The papers never tell it how it is because they don’t know so I really never believe what the papers say nor do I listen to what the commentators say either because once again they don’t really know what they’re talking about either. I never said I liked Hendy either but he did a good job last year as the long reliever. I wouldn’t let him pitch in any other situation. And yes I do like Kent. He sits there and doesn’t bother anybody. If you’ve ever noticed, Kent only speaks when something needs to be said. He spoke out on Bonds and Bradely and both needed something said about them. Now he speaks out on Kemp and you guys go crazy. I never heard a complaint when he spoke out on the other 2. And I never said my line-up would win a world series but it has a way better chance of getting there than the one we have now.

Why would we want a COW at 3B? If the Dodgers wanted a COW at 3B I suggest they bring one of those California cows from the commercials. Those California cows would be cheaper at 3B than Miguel Cabrera! Forget trading for Cabrera, why give up the young talent we have for a soon to be fat COW? Just make a run for A-Rod if he signs good if not then we try LaRoche at 3B in hopes that he doesnt break in half as there are rumors about his past with injuries. But at least make the attempt to be one of the two teams A-Rod would want to sign with.

chjones – Thanks. I haven’t posted for quite some time. I really didn’t like the negativity in a number of posts. I very much appreciate what Josh has done in creating this forum for us and wanted to use it just to keep in touch with Dodger happenings and with other Dodger fans. I found that when I did post, I couldn’t seem to engage others in some dialogue. I guess that was because I didn’t make controversial statements. I began my Dodger fan career in 1952 so have been fortunate to live through the Dodger’s greatest years. I always have that to fall back on. However, I have also lived through the free agent woes since 1988 but my passion for the Dodgers has not weakened. I therefore have not been vocally critical, always living in the glory of the past and in the hope of the future with the kids. I perhaps understand other’s frustrations since they didn’t experience those great years. However, I would encourage them to post opinions on this blog, engage others in dialogue, provide background data, provide humor but refrain from negative personal remarks about players or management or other posters. I am looking forward to a great 2008 and hoping most of our kids are still with us. I know we can’t use them all but hope we don’t pay too high a price in kids for Cabrera or Santana, etc. I also have read about the fact that Miggy and Dontrelle are putting on quite a bit of weight and don’t seem to be the team players one would think they are.

Ned, stay the course.


cameron the thing is martin just led the dodgers in RBI last season!

ur not going to get any on martin when he is hitting 8th for you!

it’s ur opinion… im not going to argue…

i just want to tell u that it’s not going to work! and no one in their rayt mind will put martin on the 8th spot!

u don’t like Kemp but u can’t give me a straight answer why…

Kent speaks out coz the team isn’t going to make it into the post season!

its not the rayt time to speak out coz it’s over!

he actually doesn’t talk about Kemp! see… i don’t remember Kent saying names!

he is talking about all the youngsters!

“And yes I do like Kent. He sits there and doesn’t bother anybody. If you’ve ever noticed, Kent only speaks when something needs to be said. He spoke out on Bonds and Bradely and both needed something said about them.”

is that what u call a leader?

a true leader don’t just sit there! he should be leading the team! he needs to be more vocal!

he only speaks when someone is bothering “HIM”!

So you don’t think our 5-7 hitters will get on for Martin to drive them in? And why do you need him to drive in runs when everybody else is just as capable of driving in runs as he is? Let him worry about catching and the pitchers and let everybody else worry about driving in runs.

Nobody said Kent was a leader, not even him so where does that come from.

Where are you? do you attend games at D.S.? Just curious. -Emma

The problem with Jeff Kent is that he is NOT a true leader. He was forcefully put into that spot ; being a veteran with his credentials playing on a young team. In my opinion he has a couple (maybe three) good years left in him. The problem is that he just doesn’t FIT. He was our cleanup hitter and he only had 20 HRs. Bottom line – if he’s gonna cause problems in the clubhouse – he just aint worth it.

Cameron… it doesn’t make sense to bury one of your best hitters in the 8th hole. He’d lose like 100 Abs over the course of a year batting 8th instead of 2nd. We need Martin to either get on base himself and have people drive him in, or have Martin drive people in, because he’s one of our best hitters. If he gets tired, Torre (unlike Grady) would rest him. Its that simple. What good would it do for Martin to get on base with the pitcher coming up? Truthfully and respectfully, this is truly one of your worst ideas.

Exactly, hitters 4-7 get on base and Martin drives them in. When he gets on base the pitcher moves him to 2nd and he has the speed to score on a ground ball to the outfield. How many times has a rally been ended because the 8th guy in the order didn’t come through? Martin would solve that problem too. You can’t have your catcher batting 4-5 times and running the bases all night long and expect him to catch 9 innings nearly everyday.

The problem with most line-ups is that you don’t have a number 8 hitter who can drive in runs. Martin can. With the guys we have throughout our order he’ll have more than his share of opportunities to drive in runs.

More games are won and lost by your 8th hitter than your 2nd hitter.

hi emma…

i sent u an email…

i did attend one game last season…

its my first game… against the astros! the one when Nomar got thrown out! lol

.312 .344 .496 .839 Kemp (24)

.313 .388 .542 .929 Cabrerra (25)

When factoring in defense, speed, age and additional players (2 of our good ones) and then money for contracts is it worth it? I am not saying it is or isn’t. Just wondering what everyone but Cameron thinks. (just kidding Cameron)

Cam-Martin is simply to talented to bat in front of a pitcher. He will be pitched around and we want him seeing fastballs so he can drive them to the gap…

jungar those numbers that you put up, is that an a equal amount of ab’s.?

jungar you always seem to make me laugh. I like that you can have a different opinion than me and not bash me like some others do. Appreciate man.

But I don’t know if I’d take the risk for Cabrera either. If I knew that he would keep his weight down then I’d defenitly get him but that’s a big if. His numbers at age 24 are awsome but his weight at age 24 is awful.

Cabrera reminds me of Angel Pena, the ex dodger catcher who ate himself out of the league.

ok, jungar, make the trade and give me cabrera and put him in LF. Unfourtantely the Marlins want a whole lot more than that (rightfully so).

On the batting 8th thing, we all know who should be batting there, but we also know this person will not bat there, for some insane reason.,

There are a lot of questions regarding Jason Bay, particularly his big power drop off last season. When you want to trade for him, how much of the way back toward his career numbers are you expecting him to rebound. I didn’t see him much of him (it’s hard to see the Pirates much without paying for it), but what I saw seemed like a bat that has slowed a little. Plus why did he stop walking like he used to – have the pitcher’s figured him out and he doesn’t know how to, or can’t, adjust?

Interesting Baseball Prospectus article on Bay from late July (his BA/OBP/SLG at the end of the season was very similar):

Aside: I doubt the Pirates will be trading any of their young pitchers.

Bottom line: counting on BOTH Bay and Jones to have rebound years is really rolling the dice – could come up big, might **** out.

What’s funny about the Kemp+ package for Cabrera speculation (I think FLA will demand at least Kemp, LaRoche, MacDonald) is that several pundits have claimed this fills the Marlins’ CENTERFIELD hole. Why can’t Matt Kemp fill the DODGERS’ CF hole?

Unless Miggy loses some weight, he is a 3B for one season more at most, so what happens then? Does he play a horrible LF or push Loney off first? (Stipulated: Cabrera is a GREAT hitter, a stud at the plate.)

Thats simple oldfogey, if the Dodgers admitted that Kemp could in fact play CF, that would make signing Pierre look all the more ridiculous. They will continue to deny that he can play CF. Of course if they move Pierre to LF as speculated it will make them look ridiculous anyways.

Cabrera would be a great hitter anywhere, find out where he hurts you the least defensively and put him there. Actually he ought to be “playing” DH.

Don’t know if anyone else caught this (the podcast on ESPN might still be up), but yesterday, Kornheiser and Wilbon were discussing the Marlins selling off Cabrera and Willis, and how the franchise seems to trade its veteran talent for prospects that have helped them get into the postseason (while 10,000 rabid fans go wild).

All I could think was that if we pulled the trigger on the Cabrera trade, for what they want, the Marlins would end up with an awesome team for the next few years at our expense.

I just keep my fingers crossed hoping that won’t happen.

Some Bay stats, courtesy of


2004 472 41 129 .282 .358 .550 132

2005 707 95 142 .306 .402 .559 150

2006 689 102 156 .286 .396 .532 138

2007 614 59 141 .247 .327 .418 93

Bay is 29 years old, turns 30 near the end of next season.

Bay’s contract is good for two more seasons, ’08: $5.75M, ’09: $7.5M, after which he is FA eligible.

Cabrera would be a great hitter anywhere, find out where he hurts you the least defensively and put him there. Actually he ought to be “playing” DH.

Posted by: | November 7, 2007 03:04 PM


What if the Dodgers acquire him and the answer to that question is 1B? Does it then follow that Loney should be part of the trade and LaRoche plan A for 3B?

You’re right, Cabrera w/out weight loss is either a DH or a future Boston LF. 😉

Did you guys see the new article on Pierre to LF seems very real.

Cam- I am actually a real cool and mellow dude, I am just a bit abrasive on this blog, even for myself sometimes. I am actually funnier in real life but i do try to mix in humor at times to try and lighten things up. I aprreciate that you appreciate it and appreciate that we can agree to agree or disagree.

I just love the Dodgers and I really get irritated at times with them..but really I mean no ill will towards any of you guys (ever) and none towards Pierre or Coletti either. I get sad when I read people say they don’t post here because of the negativity and I realize I play a part. Just tell me to shut up (nicely) and I will.

Although Coletti is on my short list of people I can’t stand. I don’t trust him. I have no other way to say it. I wouldnt trust him to sell me a vacum cleaner.. I don’t think he has any track record of success, i don’t think he really has a plan, a vision for what needs to be done and I don’t like the things he has done (action and words) to our young players.

As for me..I don’t think I would do the trade, but can’t blame those who would.

Piggy Miggy can mash…

Thats simple oldfogey, if the Dodgers admitted that Kemp could in fact play CF, that would make signing Pierre look all the more ridiculous. They will continue to deny that he can play CF. Of course if they move Pierre to LF as speculated it will make them look ridiculous anyways.

Posted by: | November 7, 2007 03:02 PM


If the Dodgers move Pierre to LF (because they signed Andruw Jones [Boras client] or Torii Hunter or someone else of similiar ilk), AND PLAY HIM THERE, they are ******. Isn’t Ethier/Hunter/Kemp >>>>> Pierre/Hunter/Kemp,Ethier,whoever Ned doesn’t trade away.

Unless the Dodgers commit to getting rid of Pierre, or to making him primarily a bench player, I don’t see any of these FA CF players being enough of an improvement over Kemp/Ethier to matter that much.

heh! **** was a six-letter, plural word that starts with an ‘m’ and means people that are not bright. It is not an expletive.

exactly oldfogey. thats why i keep saying that we are not committed to winning unless we rid ourselves of pierre.

I would be quite happy if Theo Epstein gets this done and prevents Colletti from signing Mike Lowell to some ridiculous contract of too many years, too much money.


I agree, of course. LOL




that could be 33 million of 08 salary that is basically worthless….i mean time will tell, the jury is out, but that’s at least true no matter how positive of a person you are.

I bet you Loaiza makes the most positive contribution—by coming down with an injury and being unable to pitch while being paid only 8 million. Addition by subtraction. The other two are probably subtraction by addition, if that makes sense.

Yeah, i’ll be glad if Lowell is off the table too. I wonder how Nomar feels about the “black hole” at third?

I wonder how Nomar feels about the “black hole” at third?

Totally- every article says the dodger has a hole at 3b and in CF 9agree or disagree, everyone nationally is writing it) and those were players signed, last year!

I think Coletti is gone after this year. The coach makes more than the GM. The bench coaches this year make almost as much as Grady did.

Gurnick at, today:

Nonetheless, Colletti said there are “some intriguing hitters out there.” Presumably, he will look at free-agent third baseman Mike Lowell, as well as free-agent outfielders Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones. The latter two figure nearly as much as Lowell, because the club is eager to move Juan Pierre from center field to left to shorten the throws for his exploitable throwing arm.

Pierre had a typical season for him, yet he embodies what went wrong last winter. After J.D. Drew blindsided the club by opting out of his contract, Colletti quickly re-signed Nomar Garciaparra and overpaid for Pierre with a five-year, $44 million contract.

The moves were puzzling, because, while Garciaparra was coming off a Comeback Player of the Year season, he had a history of injuries, and his signing blocked the path of top first-base prospect James Loney, who eventually forced his way into the lineup and forced Garciaparra across the diamond to third.

The length of Pierre’s deal was equally confounding, as the Dodgers had just climbed out from years of onerous long-term deals, and now here was another.


Again, moving Pierre to LF is farcical. Hunter or Jones is not a big improvement on Kemp or Ethier, one of whom is the odd man out after that signing. If you sign a CF and admit after one year that Pierre doesn’t hack it in CF, despite playing it no differently than he did the rest of his career, then you have to dump him completely and play Ethier and Kemp in the corners. Problem: Pierre is still owed $36.5M.

Do the White Sox need a CF? (Yes.) Ozzie Guillen may be the only guy left that will love JP.

Yankees interested in Caberera, according to:

(Duh, of course they are.)

“The New York Daily News reported that Cashman met with the Marlins at about 6 p.m. ET on Tuesday. But the price for Cabrera, who will be eligible for free agency after the 2009 season, could be too high for the Yankees to stomach.

Citing a source with knowledge of the situation, the newspaper reported that the Yankees would have to include either Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain or Ian Kennedy in any trade for Cabrera.”

If that’s true, the Dodgers offer would have to include at least Kershaw or McDonald or maybe Billingsley, with the rest of the package adjusted accordingly. (Maybe that means Kemp/McDonald, LaRoche/Kershaw, or Ethier/Young/Billingsley ?)

One of the big differences between the Dodgers and the Yanks is that New York has issues at 1B also, so the eventual move of Cabrera to 1B (or DH) is easier to swallow.

im still trying to figure out why everyone covets our prospects..except us. go figure.

old fogey’

How can you say Jones or Hunter aren’t much better than Kemp? Jones has won 10 straight gold gloves and Hunter has 7 straight. They both drive in runs and hit the ball out of the park and the gold gloves show that they’re the 2 best CF in baseball. All Kemp has shown is talent. He hasn’t proven anything.

The thing with Bay is that he was hurt last year. The other problem he has is that he has nobody hitting around him so all he sees is junk. He pressed alot last year because of his injury and the lack of talent around him. | November 7, 2007 04:52 PM

Do you expect the man on the left –

who picked that toupee, to discern the true value and quality of our prospects? 😉

no old fogey, he’s a horrible evaluator of talent, but i think he’d make an excellent vaccuum salesmen.


Those are some mighty strappy shoes Jamie McCourt was sporting at the Torre presser:

Vinny’s suit is the best looking suit i’ve ever seen in my life!

I’d wear that thing to bed if I could!

Congrats Russell Martin!! Put a “C” on that young man.

About personnel moves generally — I would be happy with almost any trades or signings as long as they don’t involve trading Matt Kemp (or certain other youngsters, but thankfully nobody is talking about them). Trading Matt Kemp for anything less than a SIGNED Johan Santana (and yes Miguel Cabrera is less than Santana) could be the worst Dodger trade in a decade. Heck, even a straight-up trade Kemp-for-Santana could easily prove a disaster in the long run. | November 7, 2007 05:00 PM:

This year the NL 1B Gold Glove went to Derek Lee, who was not nearly the best fielding first baseman. Pujols, for one, was much better. Gold Gloves are hardly definitive proof. That said, Hunter and Jones are definitely very good fielders.

Hunter career:

.271 .324 .469 104 OPS+

his best OBP ever: .337

He plays in the Homerdome. He had a career season in a contract drive year. He will be 33 in the middle of next season. He averages less than 25 HRs a season.

Ethier career (much smaller sample size of course) for comparison:

.295 .357 .464 108

Jones is better than Hunter:

career: .263 .342 .497 113

and maybe one should expect .350/.500 with 30+ HRs from him. He will be 31 at the start of next season. Jones’ career numbers include, of course, the early part of his career (200 or so games) where he was still learning to play the game. (Sound familiar?)

Is either enough improvement for the cost, esp. if Pierre plays LF? Money aside, I think Jones is better than Hunter. (Did Jones “press” last year too? He had Chipper Jones and, later, Mark Teixeira in that lineup with him.)

“All Kemp has shown is talent. He hasn’t proven anything.” And he can’t unless he plays. Yes, it’s a gamble. But if Kemp fails, the Dodgers are not burdened with a big, hard-to-move contract, which they will be if Jones, for example, doesn’t recover a lot from last year, or how they are stuck now with Pierre. From what I’ve seen, it will be about plate discipline with Kemp. My eyes say that he has the tools and the talent, and his production thus far, while still learning the game: .312 .344 .496 111. He just turned 23.

The bottom line point is that it is not possible for Andruw Jones to be good enough to overcome playing Pierre in LF at the expense of Kemp/Ethier.

You probably have to overpay Jones (a Boras client) on top of swallowing Pierre’s contract with a massive amount of crow, but an OF of Ethier/Jones/Kemp sounds pretty exciting to me. If there is no ARod in our future, and a trade for Piggy Miggy is out of the question:

Furcal SS

Loney 1B

Kemp RF

Jones CF

Kent 2B

Ethier LF

Martin C

LaRoche 3B

sure, why not?

old fogey, Jones is a huge upgrade over Ethier for us (nevermind Kemp, Ethier would be the odd man out). Ethier’s numbers for a corner outfielder are pedestrian and I really don’t see him as a .300-30-100 kind of guy (which makes him expendable). It stinks that we have to continue to suffer with Pierre but we definitely don’t have to do it in CF. Jones would save us a ton of runs defensively and contribute more offensively than our current OF. Sure Juan Pierre is a terrible LF in terms of production but an OF of Pierre-Jones-Kemp is like a track team and would make our defense much improved. Bottom line, we can’t have squirt-gun Pierre roaming CF, especially when our team is build on SP.

Luis Gonzales’ noodle-arm hurt us plenty in LF last year too, so JP isn’t exactly hidden there either.

By the way, Jones was a .300-30-100 guy exactly ONCE, in 2000 (a long time ago now). His second highest BA is .277 and he hasn’t been over .263 in the last four years. (Jones does bring more power to the plate though, no doubt about that.)

No matter how I try and look at it, Pierre is a huge millstone around the neck while the Dodgers trying to climb to higher standings. Please, please, please, Pierre and $18M to the White Sox for a few cases of rosin bags – then there are lots of good outcomes for the Dodgers.

Looking at several of the previous posts, my point is that the biggest millstone around the neck of the Dodgers is Colletti. Firing or however getting rid of Grady was a good move, but only corrects half of the picture. Hopefully having Torre on board will temper what Colletti does at this point, but I don’t trust Colletti to do anything better this off-season than he did last year. He is just a terrible baseball man, a worse negotiator for the kind of deals he’s put together, and above all a totally worthless piece of ****. If McCourt had any real sense, Colletti would be gone along with Grady. Just wanted to make clear how I feel about all of this.

Kershaw, Kemp, and LaRoche, arguably Logan Whites best draft picks, for Miguel Cabrera… i cringe at the thought of this trade rumor.

thats pretty clear messagebear… lol

did anyone see this from

The Dodgers tried to pry Cabrera away from the Marlins last summer when they discussed a deal that would have sent Matt Kemp, James Loney and Chad Billingsley to Florida, but the Marlins balked. The Dodgers are still interested, and Cabrera, 24, would instantly upgrade new manager Joe Torre’s 2008 lineup.

not saying he would offer that package now, but omg that is a fireable trade. and just to show how absurd the marlins are, they turned it down.

The Dodgers could probably deal Pierre if they included him in a package with a quality young pitcher (not Kershaw or anybody else in the Dodgers immediate plans) with the stipulation the deal ONLY works if you take Pierre. Dodgers could even offset a portion of the salary, ala Texas and A-Rod in their deal with Yanks. Who we get back is up to Colletti or the rest of you bloggers in here. With center field open, I could more than live with either Jones or Hunter, with Repko as the 4th outfielder behind Ethier and Kemp. Heck, I like Repko even better than Ethier…more speed, more glove…if the poor guy can just stay healthy for more than five minutes. But of all these guys I really think Kemp can be the man. Is he even shaving yet?

Andy LaRoche, Andre Ethier and James McDonald for Miggy I’d do. Nothing more though.

I hope the Dodgers look seriously at signing a player from Japan.

Hiroki Kuroda is interesting in playing only on the west coast and the Dodgers are reported to be interested in him. Also a factor is it’s reported that he has a good relationship with Takashi Saito. Hiroki could possibly be the best starter on the market. He’s got great control and throws hard.

I agree with Max on both accounts here… That’d be a good trade for the Dodgers… It would also allow us to sign one of the FA CF….

If Jones and Hunter fall through I think the free agents from Japan would be a good move for the Dodgers. They would come fairly cheap and they could be very productive.

I’d go after Hiroki very hard. He’s got some great stuff. Control pitcher that throws 95 mph. in 2006 he went 13-6 with an 1.85 ERA. Although he’s never gone over 30 starts in his career but he has thrown over 200 innings before(214) and in the last 3 seasons he has averaged close to 190 innings.

He has entered his prime and could be successful in America.

Kosuke Fukudome is another player I’d look at. He’s an outfielder that has good power and hits for great average and obp. He could be a cheap option for us, again cheap compared to Jones and Hunter.

I have defended the Pierre signing and Ned many times, but if only we had re-signed Lofton to a one year deal….

The Pierre signing was so bad you couldn’t have even began to defend it. It was a huge mistake that made our team worse and severely limited the ability to make it better. The nice thing about this mistake though is that we can fix it. We shouldn’t have to sacrifice Ethier’s production because of Pierre’s contract.

If we sign another outfielder and keep Pierre in the outfield his poor production and defense would basically cancel out the new productive outfielder we got. He’s useless, he needs to go away. I feel bad for saying this cuz he does seem like a nice guy but he just doesn’t belong in a major league outfield.

Seems third base is becoming the A-Rod vs. Cabrera debate. First question is, forgetting price tag ($ or players) who would you rather have? And if the answer is Cabrera, then who do you deal? The Marlins are NOT going to simply take our dirty dish water. They will demand much quality in return, especially with so many other big-market teams seemingly in the mix. Adding to the scenario, a lot of people feel Cabrera is a 1B/DH waiting to happen. A-Rod’s upside and downside have been discussed at length already. There’s no denying both these guys are certified studs and probably both future Hall of Famers (if Cabrera stays healthy and stays on a consistent path). All I know is, I wish Campanis was in charge of this delicate matter!

Answer is simple, you go after A-Rod. When fat cow Cabrera goes into free agency his price tag will be high as well. So why not go after A-Rod who has better numbers and is healthy. To trade for Cabrera is insane, if we wanted a cow at third base Im sure Im sure the scouts would be at the farms scouting a cow that would come a rather cheaper price! I say no to the cow, dont trade the talent for a soon to be cow! Go after A-Rod, if the deal doesnt happen then you play LaRoche at third in hopes that he doesnt break in half due to his past in dealing with injuries.


Here is one man’s opinion on all the insanity that is free agency (ARod)….
Apparently, the Dodgers cost to get Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins is Matt Kemp, Andy LaRoche and either Billingsley or Kershaw. I say they pay the price. The Dodgers necessity on this one outweighs their bullish stand on keeping the young players. Matt Kemp is a very good talent, but has issues with authority, I believe we saw that during the last month of the season, LaRoche is yet to prove to anybody that he can be an everyday player and Kershaw has potential, we have not yet seen what he can do in the majors, thus making him an unknown entity. Bills has to stay, he has proven what he can do and he will be the ace of this team someday.

In acquiring Cabrera at that cost, the Dodgers can then go after either Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter to play centerfield, Pierre moves to left and Ethier takes over as our EVERYDAY rightfielder. Cabrera cannot file for free agency for 2 more years, plenty of time for the Dodgers to work out an extension.

Arod can sign with the Angels for 350 Million, good for them, but the Dodgers don’t need that kind of financial burden on them for 10 years.

Andy LaRoche, Andre Ethier and James McDonald for Miggy I’d do. Nothing more though.

I hope the Dodgers look seriously at signing a player from Japan.

Hiroki Kuroda is interesting in playing only on the west coast and the Dodgers are reported to be interested in him. Also a factor is it’s reported that he has a good relationship with Takashi Saito. Hiroki could possibly be the best starter on the market. He’s got great control and throws hard.

Posted by: | November 7, 2007 09:06 PM

Max that is absolutely scary… I thought up that same exact proposal the other day when i was talking with my brother.

Chan Ho Park is a Dodger again.

Ned continues to show us that he is clueless.

Any deal for Miggy “The Piggy” Cabrera should involve at max one top tier Prospect. LaRoche, Kershaw, and Hu fall into this level. Matt Kemp should be considered untradeable. Ditto with the rest of the kids already in the majors other than except for Broxton and Ethier. LaRoche, Ethier, and McDonald would be the ideal package. If they demand more, we must turn them down.

I just read the article by Jim Molony of MLB.COM,when he says the Dodgers offered Loney, Kemp & Billingsley for Cabrera last summer. I for one didn’t know anything about that and I sure hope they wouldn’t do it now. Those are 3 guys I HOPE THEY DON’T TRADE for anybody.**********My List: Martin, Loney, Kent, Furcal, Ethier, Kemp, Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Beimel, Proctor Broxton & Saito. I guess everybody has their favorites. One thing I hope they know in advance no matter who they trade, how long the got Miggy for.

Why woudl the Marlins want Hu? They have Hanley at SS.

If they want a CF, give them Pierre and cash. Anything but Kemp.

chan ho park… lol… very astute move ned.

good take dodgerdude…!!!!

History shows all of the Dodgers’ success (pre and post-free-agent era) has come from relying on homegrown talent. And that talent could have all been traded away for a “proven star”

Some say Matt Kemp has problems with authority. Maybe so. But then again there is no real evidence that he does. I have yet to see anything in his past that indicates such a problem. No arrests. No on- or off-the-filed incidents. No indications that he had trouble in school or elsewhere in his young life. No remarks by any minor league managers or coaches that I am aware of.

The only complaints I’ve heard are veiled ones from old whiners Luis Gonzalez and Jeff Kent.

Yeah, he ran through a couple of stop signs at third base. Big deal.

He has shown signs of frustration. But wouldn’t you be frustrated if you had proved your talent at the minor league level and were playing terrifically in the majors but (along with your even-more-proven colleague James Loney) had to fester in Las Vegas or on the Los Angeles bench in favor of the likes of Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzales?

Matt Kemp is a future superstar, and by future I mean next year, 2009 latest.


I was just mentioning Hu as a top tier prospect that should be made unavailable in any deal.


Somewhere sometime ago, someone probably said, yeah give me Garvey, Cey and Bob Welch and i’ll give you Willie Stargel.

Correction: Hu is part of the top tier group that we should only trade from in any deal.

To add to the insanity of Kemp-for-Miguel Cabrera talk, the Fish also want Andy LaRoche and Chad Billingsley.

So let’s do the math that is indicated by such a trade:

1 Soon-to-be Superstar

+ 1 pitcher who figures to contend for multiple Cy Young awards

+ 1 Grade-A third base prospect

= 1 Superstar whose only NL position due to looming weight problems would be at a position where we already have a guy who will hit 20+ homers and be among the league leaders in batting average every year for the next decade.

I gotta say I really don’t like that math.


I have had almost the same thoughts except instead of Willie Stargell I thought of Lee May, but recently Joe Torre comes to mind in the the same scenario.

I would like to plan a trip to Vero Beach for the Dodgers final spring training. What is happening with the trip to China? Is it confirmed? Do you have dates or how that will effect the teams Florida schedule. I don’t want to get there and find no Dodgers.



Lee May works!! It’s a great example. He was traded in a 6 player traded in 71 by the Reds..One of the players among those kids was a guy named Joe Morgan. He went on to the hall, made 8 straight All Star games after the trade and won 2 MVP awards along with a few Rings.

Billy Willams or Reggie Jackson also work. Both are hall of famers and were at the top of baseball in OPS+ around the time frame I am mentioning.

But would the Dodgers have won those rings and captured the heart of the fan base without Garvey, Cey, Welch as example, I think not.

Wow! I never thought I’d hear somebody say that my boy Broxton was tradeable.

how about this for a blockbuster deal?

Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, and Hanley Ramirez.


Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Andy Laroche ,Clayton Kershaw, and Jonathan Meloan….i like it.

wat do you guys think?

About the only guy I would add to my list at 10:09 AM above would be Repko. Although he is accident prome, I’d like to see him get another shot at making this team. Other than that ANYBODY WHO DOESN’T APPEAR ON MY LIST I DON’T CARE IF THEY GET TRADED for a guy like Miguel Cabrera, even with his expanding waisteline and poor work ethics. He’s got the numbers we need and we have a whole organization of fine unproven Major league youngsters that we haven’t really gotten attached to yet. The main thing is I hope they sign him to a long term contract immediately. A-Rod is another avenue of approach, but that all depends on McCourt.

Broxton is certainly very tradable, infinitely more so than Matt Kemp, thats for sure. Shelf-lives for pitcher, relievers even more so, are usually somewhat short; and their overall values are very volatile from year to year. i.e. Gagne, Lidge, and others. (This a general rule and Broxton may or may not be an exception to that rule.) Talents like Matt Kemp are rare. He’s an everyday player… Broxton pitches like what, 95-100 inn. per year, max?

don’t get me wrong though, i love big bad john.


I wish we could pull that deal off but remember who our GM is. Those kind of deals get pulled on us. A stud bat, a proven pitcher and a up and coming star at SS for an unproven 3B, 2 unproven pitchers and an average outfielder. Like I said, wish it could happen but the Marlins GM won’t but that.

pierre, i think if u saw Kershaw pitch, you’d add him to your list.

do you believe Matt Kemp is an average OF?

Bills, Loney, Kemp are the only ones on my personal no trade list.

I belive Kershaw and LaRoache should be on the list but need more time to decide on them. LaRoache’s recent injury histroy scares me some and pitchers who are 20 scare me, because who knows what will happen to his arm.

As a diclaimer I think I would trade any of my top 3 for Cabrerra straight up so no one is totally untocuhable, but not when you add a few players to go along with them.

Piggy Miggy is young and in his prime, not to many players of his caliber (production and age) are available in MLB history ,let alone in recent memory..

I would die to get Hanley Ramirez as well but thats just not gonna happen. He might even be better than Piggy considering where he plays on the diamond and his last two years of production is pretty amazing.

The dude scored 125 runs had 29hr and 51 steals while hitting .330 and playing SS.

Hey, if you guys want Brox gone then I can’t argue with you. But don’t forget that you have to have somebody to close out games for you. He’s already the best “true” setup man in the game. He’ll probably be one of the top 3 closers in the game in about 3 years along with Papelbon and Jenks.

Keith Law on Miggy
“Miguel Cabrera

Cabrera’s the big prize of the offseason, and the Marlins know it. They’re looking for a bounty of major league-ready players mixed with some tools prospects like the haul they received for Josh Beckett two years ago this month. Whatever Cabrera’s flaws, he’s a plus hitter with 60-65 power (that is, well above average on the 20-80 scale) and excellent on-base ability. He’s averaged 31½ homers over the past four years despite playing in a park that kills right-handed power.

On the downside, Cabrera is a terrible defensive player who belongs in left field, and his work ethic and off-field behavior are questionable, although new Yankees skipper Joe Girardi vouched for Cabrera’s makeup the other day. Cabrera has two years to go until free agency, and will probably earn $26-30 million over those two years in arbitration unless he’s signed to a long-term deal. If the acquiring team doesn’t sign him, it’ll be able to get two draft picks for him when he leaves, which probably isn’t true for anyone else on this list. ”

johan a free agent after 08, peavy a free agent after 09.

My personal top 3 untouchables are Bills, Brox, and Kershaw. You can find position players everyday but pitching is hard to come by. Especially a good closer.

A blind man (Coletti) found us the best closer in the NL by accident.

So I don’t disagree with you Cameron ,just saying they are a bit easier to find and history (unfortuantly) shows the shelf life of great relivers usually is as long as the shelf life of great running backs in football.

There are always the exceptions…

no one said they want Broxton gone you dummy(respectfully). My point wasn’t “we gotta trade Broxton.” Just saying, he is more tradable than Matt Kemp.

you ever hear the saying “there is no such thing as a pitching prospect.” Now i don’t subscribe and agree directly to this view, but the logic behind it is the volatility and higher injury rates of pitchers compared to position players. Position players are safer bets, and OFs like Matt Kemp are very very rare.

So if you were Boston you’d trade Papelbon before you’d traded Ellsbury or Manny?

Relievers like Brox are more rare than good outfielders.

They may be more rare but they’re also a boat-load cheaper

Well, to take a page out of your book… Papelbon is established as a premier major league closer. Brox has not quite shown that he’s ready for the role, and in fact has not done well in the few times that he has been handed the ball in the 9th. I very much also disagree that relievers like Broxton are as rare as position players like Kemp. I gotta ask you to check your personal biases at the door cameron.

NL Save leaders for each season since 98..what do u notice on this list?

Jose Valverde (ARI)

Trevor Hoffman (SDP)

Chad Cordero (WSN)

Armando Benitez (FLA)

Jason Isringhausen (STL)

Eric Gagne (LAD)

John Smoltz (ATL)

Robb Nen (SFG)

Antonio Alfonseca (FLA)

Ugueth Urbina (MON)

Trevor Hoffman (SDP)

Look, I like Broxton a ton… But statistically he doesn’t match up at all with Papelbon.

-Paps career 160 inn. era 1.62 WHIP 0.92 – 193 Ks to 45 walks .180 BAA and 72 saves. These stats while pitching in the AL east.

-Broxton career 172 inn. era 2.98 WHIP 1.24 – 218 Ks to 70 walks .223 BAA. won’t mention saves because he’s never had the role.

I want Broxton to succeed, and I want him to succeed as a dodger. But I’d much rather trade him over Kemp.

Billingsley and Loney I think won’t get traded no matter what. Especially Bills, with the weak pitching market there is no way he gets traded. Loney i think has established himself as our first basemen for a long long time.

I think Matt Kemp is staying as well. Kershaw is absolutely untouchable. If anyone gets delt it will be LaRoche, Ethier, McDonald and others.

Trading Broxton would be very very stupid. Come on Dodgerdude pull your head out.

It real clear Dodger fans. Do you want to win or not. You can’t keep every minor leaguer and expect to win a World Series. You have to make moves to get better. I see all these people go we can’t trade Kemp. Hello have you not watched him play. He strikes out more then Adam Dun of the Reds does and his defense is horrible. Unlike my fellow Dodger fans. I want World Series titles. Not settle for medicore results to keep a minor leaguer who might or might not pan out.

Broxton has had only a hand full of save chances. I’d like to give him a full season to show what he’s got. I think he’ll be more then effective.

wrink is NED COLLETTI!!!!! RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

read all the comments Max… I’m just saying that given the choice, I’d trade Broxton before I trade Matt Kemp.

Whats the difference between striking out or say weakly grounding out to the third baseman ala Juan Pierre? Strike-outs don’t mean that much. Power, OBP, that’s what wins ball games.

wrink are you related to me?

Kemp also scares me everytime a fly ball goes his way.

Pitching wins ball games.

well Wrink we watch a totally different game then..and it would be nice if you got your facts straight…

And Kemps defense is certainly no worse than our current CF’ers.

62ks in 292Abs at age 23 is not the same as 165ks in 560 ABs at age 29. Plus i’d take Dunn and his 40/100/100 career .381 OBP and .519 SLU and .900 OPS any time.

Pitching, power, OBP wins ball games.

amen jungar.

Pitching wins ball games.

just ask the Padres.

first cameron saying Kemp is like milton!

now wrink is saying that Dunn is alot better than Kemp!

2007 Team ERA leaders.
(+ is playoff team)

San Diego Padres

Boston Red Sox +

Toronto Blue Jays

Chicago Cubs +

Cleveland Indians +

Atlanta Braves

Arizona Diamondbacks +

Minnesota Twins

San Francisco Giants

Los Angeles Dodgers

you guys are totally missing it. strikeouts are awful. in fact each time pierre does not strike out and puts the ball in play, theres a chance that the outfielder might drop it, or it might escape the second baseman by a hair, which is how he gets most of his base hits anyways.

If I’m not mistaken the second team on that list won the World Series.

The 4th team was in the ALCS and the 7th team was in the NLCS.

And don’t forget the Rockies had the best ERA after the All-Star break.

This is awful:

Chan Ho Park says on his weblog that he’s signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers.

Park, 34, made one start for the Mets last season, giving up seven runs in four innings. He had a 5.97 ERA in 24 Triple-A starts between New Orleans and Round Rock. He’ll be a long shot to make the Dodgers.

“you guys are totally missing it. strikeouts are awful. in fact each time pierre does not strike out and puts the ball in play, theres a chance that the outfielder might drop it, or it might escape the second baseman by a hair, which is how he gets most of his base hits anyways.”

or he forces out a guy at second, pops it up on the first pitch or he kills a rally.

If Pierre struck out more last year we probably would have had a better offense. **** if Pierre didn’t play last year we would hvae.

my thoughts on Chan Ho Park…

Joe Torre wanted pitching to win in the playoffs and Ned’s doing his best not to help.

Why in the world would you waste money on a pitcher like that when you could take a chance on a young kid from another country or something? Ned is showing that this winter may be just like the last one.

Just to make this clear…I was never arguing against the importance of pitcher.

Here you go Ned. Here are some more players you can get this winter.

Carl Pavano

Kerry Wood

Mark Prior

Matt Clement

Add them to Schmidt and we may get 8 starts out of those 4.

Then you could go get Corey Patterson to play along side of Pierre.

Oops, I almost forgot. Lets also pick up Wes Helms or Morgan Ensberg to play 3B.

I mean those 5.

All of these trade rumors are literally making me sick…seriously.

Don’t waste your breath on minor-league contracts, assuming this one is even true. Who cares about Chan Ho Park signing a minor league deal? These signings are made every year by all teams.

speaking of retreads, anyone knows whether we’re planning to keep lurch around? can we please cut him lose already. we can find a mop up man way cheaper than him.

The problem is that you may have another Saito out there but you waste that on somebody you know that will never pitch at the big league level.

Not true and there will be plenty of minor league contracts given out this off season and 95% of them won’t mean a thing.

With the way the market is shaping up and with every single GM in the league totally out-classing Colletti, there is no doubt in my mind that whatever trade we make will per se be bad for the team. If its a big enough deal, it might totally undo all of Logan White’s good work and will likely set this franchise back 5-10 years. I know it sounds dramatic but that is how little trust I have in Colletti. He’s been handed a gold mine and he just can’t wait to go out and trade it all for a Model T. I really believe the only type of major trade that might work for the team acquiring the big name in exchange for prospects would be a trade involving an Ace (Beckett type of deal). I can’t think of any recent trades in which the team acquiring a well-established position player in exchange for top prospects ever worked well for the acquiring team. At the other end, there are scores of examples where the acquiring team is pillaged of their top prospects. Couple that reality with the fact that Colletti is utterly incompetent and we can only pray a deal does not go down.

alex I have to disagree with you on that one. Why give him a contract when he’s proven he doesn’t have it anymore when you can give it to John Doe who’s never had the chance? I understand that it happens all the time but it’s really just a waste of money. Would you go buy something you know doesn’t work or would you try something that may work? I’d go to another country try to find that diamond in the rough. I’m not wasting any money or innings on a pitcher that doesn’t have it anymore when I could be giving a kid a chance to prove himself. But that’s just me.

I guess my point is this potential signing doesn’t prohibit Ned from giving a no-name the chance. If anything it’s just giving someone another chance to show if he does have anything else. It’s just a minor-league contract and the opportunity to come to Vero Beach. And there are plenty of John Does that will be invited.

Frank should use that money to pay Mickey to be at his theme park every night.

But I do understand your point I’m just saying it’s a waste of time and money.

Agreed, most minor-league deals are, it’s just looking for a piece of gold in a dump truck. And a lot of the time you find yourself stuck in trash.

A vintage, intact Model T would be worth a lot of money these days.

I think Alex is right. I mean it is no different than Lima or Sele or Erickson.

I am a Ned basher but can’t bash him on this one.

Pitching is one area where I will take the chance on the veteran over the youngster when BIG MONEY is NOT involved.

scurtiss: I posted that info 3 hours before you did.

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