Fifty Years Ago Today
I know we’ve got plenty of East Coast fans who still check out this blog and I’ll apologize in advance for opening any wounds that have finally closed. That said, it was 50 years ago today that one of my esteemed predecessors, Red Patterson, handed reporters a press release at a Brooklyn hotel to announce that the team was leaving for Los Angeles (a reminder of how media has changed as well as the game of baseball over the past half century).
Steve Springer of the L.A. Times has spent the last few months researching the period when the Brooklyn Dodgers became the Los Angeles Dodgers and his fantastic two-day, four-story piece was in yesterday’s paper and today’s. For those who missed it, it’s some very interesting reading that also clarifies some of the circumstances around those who resided in Chavez Ravine before the Dodgers did.
Article 3 (Vin Scully’s recollections)
And over on Yahoo.com, the Springer family continues the look back at the move, as Steve’s son Alan, has a video piece with Tommy Lasorda on his memories.
For the real history buffs, our friends at walteromalley.com have put together an awesome site filled with photos, documents and stories about the man who is almost single-handedly responsible for the expansion of baseball to the West Coast. One of these days, the Hall of Fame will induct him posthumously in Cooperstown. Until then, it’s up to all of us to remember how this franchise came to be the one we all live, breath and love every day.
Inside the Dodgers 
Boo-yah !!! Dodgers World Champions in 2008 !!!!!!!!!!
Josh,
Awesome article with Vin Scully’s thoughts. Please could you let Mr. Scully know how much we LOVE him in LA. Please thank him for all his hard work. THANK YOU VIN for teaching me how to love the Dodgers and the game of baseball!!!!
Just wanted to confirm the fact that I’m one of the people that were left behind in Brooklyn, when the Dodgers left for L.A. Josh, I just wanted to also add that I think I’m one of a few left that are still here that decided to follow the team any way we could after they left. Let’s hear from the rest of you. I’ll be back later after I go through the above articles. Sincerly Joe Pierre.
pierre,
i was a fan at the time of the move because of my mom who was a big fan in NC. Josh,the names she used for Mr. O”Malley at the time were not “future HOFer”.i however could never make myself change even though it was really tough to pick up those west coast games on radio and tv. even today with the network games they think the only games to show in NC are the Braves. the way to find out who are old fans are is when they say with passion,”God I hate the Yankees.”like Joe i’m always and forever BLUE.
I had left Brooklyn (two blocks from Ebbets Field) for Wisconsin by the time the Dodgers made the move, so it wasn’t so painful for me as it was for my Brooklyn friends, and I still bleed Dodger Blue to this day.
I still am not sure as to who should take the blame for the move – O’Malley or Moses, but the people of Brooklyn were really given a bad deal, and expansion franchises would have been just as successful in LA and San Francisco in my opinion these fifty years later.
Even though I’m as strong a Dodger fan as there is, I feel it would be a travesty to put O’Malley in the Hall of Fame before Pete Rose and Gil Hodges!!!
I was born in 1986, so I’m not that heartbroken over the move to Brooklyn, personally. If anything, I appreciate what O’Malley wanted to do.
In the first place, Ebbett’s Field was a small park. Sure it has a nice intimate feel, but were they still in Brooklyn, they could sell out every game and still have payroll limitations because they could only fit 35,000 people there. When I went on vacation to LA, I could get tickets to a Dodger game because there’s a 56000 seat capacity, but no such luck in the Ebbett’s-sized Fenway Park when I visited Boston, unless you wanted to pay the scalper’s rate of $200 a pop.
Secondly, the major leagues didn’t have a team west (or south, for that matter) of St. Louis, and it’s not much of a national pastime when the only people who can go to a major league game are in the northeast.
That said, it was a loss for Brooklyn, but it was a good move.
Ty Bicks (Reno): How many games did Little cost the Dodgers by using Nomar, Pierre, Gonzo, Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez instead of Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Loney, LaRoche and Meloan every day from Opening Day on? Definitely cost us a playoff berth, right?
SportsNation Keith Law: (1:07 PM ET ) Yes, I believe it did cost them a playoff berth. But you have to split the blame between Little and Ned Colletti. And I’d put more blame on the guy who actually signed Pierre and re-signed Nomar.
Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | October 7, 2007 07:15 PM
Exactly. I am not as sold on LaRoche as some of you guys are. He hasn’t really impressed me from what I’ve seen him do at the bigs… Maybe hes was still injured and he’ll turn things around(we can hope atleast).
swood
it’s really hard to impress anyone if u only played 35 games and 93AB!
LaRoche has shown discipline at the plate! He has alot of Power!!!
He does swing on the pitches that was out of the zone but that’s natural for a rookie! He will learn from that! He needs a chance to prove himself!
If we can’t have ARod next year LaRoche should start at 3B and i just have a feeling that he has the chance to win ROY!
Lessons learned this postseasonposted: Monday, October 8, 2007 | Print Entry
You can stop at the Grand Canyon, or maybe Zion on the off-day drive. And while you’re out there on the run from Phoenix to Denver, you can think about where the Texas Rangers might be today had Tom Hicks listened to former Rangers GM Doug Melvin instead of talking heads. Or how the Orioles might actually be relevant if Peter Angelos listened to anyone. Or what the Houston Astros might be with rational ownership.
It was Melvin, now the Brewers’ GM, who made the point last month that when the Yankees and Red Sox decided to go with young players in the heat of the pennant race that the free agent market might be devalued, and that Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein had built organizations with vast wingspans. But this offseason is about far more than Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury. It is about watching the Indians’ organization, for instance, rise like the Trump Towers.
And now, it’s about watching the Diamondbacks and the Rockies and some of the best young players in the game in this, the Josh Byrnes October, since the current Arizona GM has had a prominent hand in the building of the Indians, Rockies and Red Sox as well as his own team. The Diamondbacks’ best young players — Stephen Drew, Chris Young, Justin Upton, et al — are really at the point the Rockies’ young rocks were two years ago, when Matt Holliday, Brad Hawpe, Jeff Francis and Garrett Atkins were blossoming without spotlight. That is, all except Troy Tulowitzki, a fellow rookie with his 24 homers and 99 RBIs who is gaining consideration as the best defensive shortstop in the game; Tulowitzki led all major league shortstops in total chances (by 114), double plays and fielding percentage, and an official of one team that closely studies defensive statistics says “the difference between Tulowitzki and the second-place defensive shortstop is greater than the difference between No. 2 and No. 9.”
There are lessons that this October should teach us.
First, patience. “When we went through some of our signing fiascos and knew what we had to do, our ownership supported us all the way,” says Colorado GM Dan O’Dowd. “It wasn’t always easy. Things didn’t happen overnight.” Even this spring, there were calls for the heads of O’Dowd and Clint Hurdle, but ownership never wavered.
The same situation has existed in Cleveland, where team president Paul Dolan handed the GM reigns to Mark Shapiro, asked him to raze the payroll and rebuild. In Arizona, Byrnes has had the support to let some veterans go and gradually work in the young players.
It hasn’t always been true with the Yankees and Red Sox, but Cashman has ascended to an authoritarian role when it comes to signing high-priced amateur talent, and Epstein has apparently won his wars in the same area. Since New Englanders obsess about the Yankees, Epstein had better be allowed to ignore the commissioner’s office attempts to artificially rig draft and amateur signing prices, because Cashman’s Yankees will spend whatever it takes. And the new ballpark (and the year’s exemption from the luxury tax) will add to the Yankees’ vault; one man has secured first-row boxes behind home plate in the new park at $2,500 a seat, which, with four seats, means his regular-season total will be $810,000 a year, until the prices go up.
Pittsburgh will have that patience and clarity of direction. When CEO Frank Coonnelly was in the commissioner’s office, he was Bud Selig’s hawk, but he is highly respected by the young, bright minds across the sport and he will give Neal Huntington every chance to succeed as GM. Yes, it’s been since Barry Bonds was a Pirate that they were competitive, but this is an organization that will have the opportunity to sign draft choices and international players and develop them. Baltimore? There are pools on when Angelos will turn on Andy MacPhail, as he did on Pat Gillick and everyone else. Drayton McLane is too erratic, too hands-on and too devoted to the Selig signing laws to succeed in Houston. St. Louis looks like a mess with any new GM caught in-between Internet guru Jeff Luhnow, the likely return of Tony La Russa and the need to succeed, as well as acceding to Scott Rolen’s desire to be divorced from La Russa.
Second, scouting and development are vital. Rockies scouting directorBill Schmidt is one of the most underappreciated rocks in the business, and the D-backs are still reaping the benefits of what Mike Rizzo accomplished before moving on to Washington. The Indians, Red Sox and Yankees all have fluid ties between ownership, general managers, scouting directors and scouts.
Think the Padres might like Stephen Drew? Kevin Towers was going to take him, but ownership bowed to the commissioner’s office, forcing him to select Matt Bush,who has no fixed team address. It sure was great that the Pirates passed B.J. Upton for Bryan Bullington. Houston became an embarrassment this year by refusing to sign any high picks above the price-fixing slots.
Third, if you want to build from within, you have to have the right manager. Bob Melvin and Hurdle haven’t received their dues for bringing along young players and standing behind them. Hurdle has suffered through some frustrating seasons to get here, but never backed off the kids, while Melvin has broken in close to 10 young players the last couple of years. Hurdle has gone with Ubaldo Jimenez, Franklin Morales and Manny Corpas in a pennant race, and Melvin has nurtured Drew, Upton, Micah Owings, Young, et al.
Eric Wedge has been a constant, solid, development manager. Terry Francona brought along kids from Pedroia to Clay Buchholz. Look at the Yankees and see Torre’s patience — where would they be without Melky Cabrera in center, Robinson Cano at second, Chamberlain and Hughes? Oh yes. While developing those kids and changing the future of the franchise, Torre is the only manager to be in the postseason in 2006 and 2007.
Fourth, if you want to play young players, you’d better have the right veteran players to support them. Look at what happened with the Dodgers down the stretch. Hmmm. Luis Gonzalez raised a ruckus in Arizona when Carlos Quentin arrived, and his refusal to accept that times they are a-changin’ ran him out of that franchise and into a similar mess in L.A. The Diamondbacks’ veterans like Tony Clark, Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson and Livan Hernandez have been support nets for all the young teammates, as Trot Nixon, Casey Blake and Paul Byrd have done in Cleveland. Monday night, Johnny Damon acknowledged “our season started to turn when Melky got in there every day.”
To get here is a long process. It requires Curt Schilling admitting he reported to spring training out of shape, working and accepting John Farrell’s advice. It requires Asdrubal Cabrera and Franklin Gutierrez stepping in for the Indians midway through August, and Wedge being willing to send Cliff Lee and Jeremy Sowers back to Triple-A Buffalo.
It requires the time to handle all the ups and downs those remarkable young players in Arizona and Colorado have endured to get here, and now they are about to give us what promises to be a remarkably entertaining NLCS. These teams have paid a lot more than free agent money, and the price of competence, patience, diligence and detail are being rewarded.
Scroll down and read the section on Luis Gonzalez…found this very interesting from Peter Gammons on ESPN insider..
i knew the Angels wont last long in the playoffs!!!
i was surprise with their regular season record!
They played extremely well in the regular season!
but when u look at that team u can just tell that it’s all vlad!
The angels are weak!
Figgins is the biggest surprise for them!
other than vlad, if it wasn’t for figgins and anderson angels are in the bottom of their division!
hate the angels!
Love the Dodgers!!!
Go Dodgers 2008! WS champion! ahahahah!
LaRoche is definitely expendable, but only for the best. If the Dodgers can get A-Rod, you can definitely let go of LaRoche, considering you still have 3rd base prospects like Dewitt and Bell down in the minors. But I really don’t expect the Dodgers to get A-Rod. Of course, it’s always fun to hope. A lineup of Furcal, Pierre, Loney, A-Rod, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, Abreu sounds good to me, since I don’t expect Kent back. Best 3-6 in the NL for sure.
I was only 10 years old when the Dodgers came to L.A. but I could not have been happier. I can only imagine how Brooklyn felt about losing the Dodgers and it certainly was not the fans fault. I am convinced O’Malley would have stayed in Brooklyn had an acceptable site for a new ball park been found. Los Angeles gave him that site when Brooklyn would not. It is interesting to read that many within the organization including the players and Vin Scully were concerned about being accepted in L.A. A 7th place finish and an aging roster did little to damper the excitement with much of that excitement and interest due to Vinny. Of course, winning the pennant and the World Series in 1959 certainly helped cement the Dodger’s place in Los Angeles.
The day to lament now for Dodger fans is the day Peter O’malley decided to sell the Dodgers to Fox.
Fourth, if you want to play young players, you’d better have the right veteran players to support them. Look at what happened with the Dodgers down the stretch. Hmmm. Luis Gonzalez raised a ruckus in Arizona when Carlos Quentin arrived, and his refusal to accept that times they are a-changin’ ran him out of that franchise and into a similar mess in L.A. The Diamondbacks’ veterans like Tony Clark, Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson and Livan Hernandez have been support nets for all the young teammates, as Trot Nixon, Casey Blake and Paul Byrd have done in Cleveland. Monday night, Johnny Damon acknowledged “our season started to turn when Melky got in there every day.”
How about that line about Luis?..Guess he had the same problem in Arizona…we need veterans that can get along with our young kids and vice versa…they have to have mutual respect…as long as the vets aren’t over the hill.!
The “Greatest story ever told” was about a man who was crucified and later rose from the dead. Well the story of the Brooklyn-Los Angeles Dodgers must be a close second. The story of the time the Dodgers left Brooklyn has been told by a million people and heard about by a million others. In some ways the way Brooklyn reacts today to the leaving of the team and the way Los Angeles reacts to coming of the team is not too much unlike the story mentioned above.
Built a bad offense-check
Built a poor defense-check
Built a team with poor team chemistry-check
Built a pitching staff that by his own admission wasn’t good enough-check
Frank’s Best Hire ever-checkmate.
GO BACK TO BROOKLYN. Just kidding but I wish Frank and his old lady could go back to Boston.
Ian Dodgers:
How can you say if it wasn’t for vlad the angels would be in last place. The angels have chemestry some thing the Dodgers defenitly don’t have. Also if it wasn’t for Kent then the dodgers would problably have lost a record 140 games this year. Dodgers are a horrible organization right know from their owner to the Gm to the worst manager in history Graddy Idiot. If Grady could not win with Ortiz, Manny, Garciaparra, and Pedro. Then he could never win with Loiza, Pierre, Furcal, Lowe, Penny.
eduardosoto
ya jeff kent really didnt do that great. if a guy who hits 20 home runs in a season is the reason that a team doesnt lose 140 games…then you got a problem. yes ino your over exaggerating. but loney put 15 up and kemp 10 both with limited at bats. and martin 19. so those guys and the pitching held us together…NOT JEFF KENT! he is a mediocre ballplayer now
Kent is not mediocre. He is a liability on defense and in the clubhouse with his motorcycle magazines. He played 140 games batted clean up in all of them and drove in 80 runs. Kent is an OVERRATED 2nd baseman that needs to go to his ranch and “wash his truck”!!!!
FIRE GRADY
FIRE NED
CUT KENT!!!!!!
Boston and Cleveland in the ALCS and the Rockies and the Dbacks in the NLCS. Man these should be two great series. Who’s everybody picking? I’m going with the Bo Sox over Cleveland and the Rockies over the Dbacks. I think Colorado out hits the Dbacks in this one. Then I’ve got Boston over Colorado for the Series Championship.
Oh yeah by the way.
Fire Ned
Fire Grady
Add Bobby Abreau and trade Kemp for top notched starter.
My heart tells me Cleveland vs. Rockies, Rockies win. But my brain tells me Boston vs. Rockies, Boston wins ***** I hate the Red Sox as much or more than the Yankees). BTW, I hope your not serious about Abreu, if we get an OF it better be a CF and we better not trade Kemp.
I’m dead serious about getting Abreau. Pierre isn’t going anywhere so we’d have Either, Pierre and Abreau in the outfield. Then we can trade Kemp and his bad attitude for some good starting pitching and possibly a third baseman.
Cameron,
I too am somewhat concerned about Kemp’s attitude and coachability, at least from what has been reported. That, of course, is not always reliable. At his age and with his seeming potential, I would give him another chance with expectations of good productivity and progress this coming season. You would think that the manager and his coaching staff have to bear some responsibility for handling Kemp in the right manner, and by that I don’t mean to just appease him. He’s got to mature in character as well as in his baseball skills. I don’t see him as the polished major leaguer that Loney seems to be at this stage. If we trade him for an established front line starting pitcher, I’m OK with that, but not for somebody whose contract only gives us one year of service – it would have to be an ascertained long range benefit to the Dodgers.
cameron you are crazy.
Abreu 15 MILLION
.283 16 hr 605 at bats
Kemp 383,000
.342 10 hr 292 at bats
Get Kemp the right manager he is a gamer he will play hard.
Kemp is not a clubhouse cancer like Kent(Mets,Indians,Gnats, Dodgers) or Gonzo(D-backs and Dodgers)
Abreu had a bad year. He’s a career .330 BA, .408 OBP and .500 SLG. Not to mention he has the best arm in right field next to Francoure and maybe Vlad in all of baseball. He keeps his mouth shut and just plays the game. He’s the type of vetern we need on this club and he still has some years left in him. He’s no washed up has been vetern. He can still produce.
.300 BA my bad
15 hr in 06′
24 hr in 05′
he’s 38 years old making 15 million a year! If that’s not the definition of washed up player I don’t know what is???
cameron you ever heard of a guy name Ichiro he has the best Outfield arm in baseball. Kemp has just as good an arm as Abreu maybe a little less acurate. But he’s 22 making 15 MILLION less a year, with more power!!!
Yeah and Ichiro played CF this year. I said RF. And Kemp has nowhere near the arm Abreu has.
Look everybody has their opinion and mine is go after a guy like Abreu and trade Kemp while you can still get a lot for him and before is attitude ruins the entire clubhouse.
Cameron do u work for Ned?
You sound like it.
Do you have specific information that Kemp is runing the club house. Is that what your cousin thinks?
No I don’t work for Ned and no I haven’t talked to my cousin about it. We don’t talk about baseball. That’s his job and I wouldn’t ever do anything to risk him his job. I’m just telling you how I see it. Like I said before, I think Kemp is the next Milton Bradley.
Can you get Puljos?
Miguel Cabrerra
Hanley Ramirez
A-rod
Grady Sizemore
Jose Reyes
Matt Holiday
Curtis Granderson
Prince Fielder
Ryan Howard
Chase Utley
David Wright
If yeah, then go ahead and trade Kemp.
Well just don’t belive what you read then Cameron. Because all you saw was a kid who at age 22 hit .330+ with a solid OPS and OBP and was scapegoated.
You could probably get Cabrera and Granderson for Kemp but nobody else will because the other players you mentioned are the only stars on their teams right now.
If you guys can see the way he plays and the way he acts in the dugout then you guys are blind to baseball. All you guys look at are numbers and special moments he has. His ego means more than the team and he plays like it. Plus you can’t judge numbers after only a few hundred AB’s.
cameron
i like kemp and he is very talented. i don’t know if i would trade him or not, but i agree about the attitude. i saw the dodgers and rockies on th elast thursday or the year and kemp struck out to end the first…and walked really slow back t the dugout…stayed there for a little while…then walked really slow to second base then half barely jogged out to right. meanwhile pierre is tossing the ball to himself while waiting for kemp. even loaiza was waiting for him to get out there. that really pissed me off. now i don’t know how much of that was him or grady letting him do that with out saying anything, and i don’t know how he is in the clubhouse but that really bothered me.
like i said i don’t know what i think about trading him, but he needs work on his defense and his attitude.
What’s with Kemp’s attitude?
that’s not true! i don’t believe it!
that issue is fake! they just invented it coz they love Kent and they want to go with the side of the veterans coz they can’t believe the veterans are the reason of the clubhouse outburst! but they are, it’s their fault the veterans fault! Kent did it! gonzo did it! Lowe did it!
what about Lowe? he is so cocky! no one even wants to talk about his f*cking bad attitude!
look at the photo’s!
Kemp has always cheer for his mates whenever someone hit a HR or someone scoring a run!
like the walk off single by gonzo! didn’t u see him celebrating and jumping up and down!
those guys who believe Kemp has a bad atittude are idiots!
and i’ll give u an advice!
don’t read plashcke’s articles so ur mind wont be poisoned!!!
and about the issue that he is not coachable! dude the only problem that they are talking about is Kemp’s base running!!!
and who is ur 3B coach?
Donnelly? if i were Kemp i wont listen to him! donnelly has made alot of mistakes!
and he should be fired!
before i said, i want Grady fired!
but i think he needs one more chance and for god sakes, he need’s good players!!!
the dodgers need Arod!
Go DODGERS!!!
cameron,
ur good at talking about Kemps ego but then u still want Kent back?
i can’t even remember who else has the kind of attitude Kent have!
he is a baby! he is an idiot!
he can play(good for him)! but he isn’t a guy u want for your team coz he has a big mouth when ur losing but can’t speak for himself in the real word!!!
Well I’m glad to know that you think I’m an idiot jan dodgers. I’ll give you that Kent had a bad attitude in his younger days but the last 3 teams he’s been with he’s been right on the money with the guys he’s called out,Bonds and Bradley. Maybe you should think about that before you go anointing Kemp. Kemp’s attitude is horrible. I know I wouldn’t want him on my team. He’d be the first priority on my offseason list.
For whoever keeps saying LaRoche has not “impressed”, what about all of those fantastic defensive plays he made at 3rd? Baseball is not ALL about offense (which will come in his case).
If we would have had better veterans the issue with the KIDS NEVER would have happened. I think Nomar, KEnt and Gonzo were just upset that they were going to lose their jobs shortly.
Anyone that blames the kids for this season is an idiot. This seasons failure rest on the veterans. END OF DICUSSION!
DISCUSSION*
Also, lets consider who these complaints were coming from. Gonzo, Kent and Nomar. Throughout each of their careers they have been ran out of some place for THEIR ATTITUDE.
Kent is up set because they “don’t respect the veterans” Kent was accused of that same problem when he was you…hence they reason he was traded by the blue jays. Gonzo got pissed because the D’Backs brought up Carlos Quinten last year. Nomar with the red sox didn’t work out either.
I think the real problem is that the Vets think they are the team’s leader when in fact they aren’t. I think it’s russell martin. I think Russ earned his leadership status while Kent, Nomar and Gonzo all assumed their leadership status heading into the season.
Our problem this year was the VETS not the KIDS!
he was young*
I agree that Martin should be the team captain. He has to work the hardest throughout the year.
I think in the next couple of years the Dodgers will name Martin captain and sign him to a 10 year deal…at least they should. Of course if Ned is still in charge they will probably trade him to the Giants for Pedro Feliz or something.
I say you go after A-Rod, Miguel Cabrera or Mike Lowell to solidify 3rd base and have a good stick in the line-up. You let Gonzo and Kent go to free up the money to pay either one of those 3 guys mentioned. You trade LaRoche, Hendrickson (who $u&s) and either Abreu or Lung Hu for a good solid pitcher! But if all fails they can always sign me! Im sure I will do better than most of those old farts in the roster!
A-Rod isn’t coming to LA I don’t think. Lowell is a product of the Green Monster. You have to keep Hu incase Furcal doesn’t come back after his contract is up. I think Hendrickson would be fine if his only role was long relief. I think Abreu and LaRoche should both be given the chance to take 3B. If Kent comes back I’d have to let DY platoon him for a season. But with all that said, every young player isn’t going to be a star so you need to trade some of them for proven players. But there are millions of ways to make this club better but I bet you Ned finds the one way to screw it up again.
I think we at least have to give on honest effort to sign A-Rod. Offense is what this team needs, and A-Rod, even at $30 million per year, would be a good investment. The homerun chase would bring in tons more money. ****, McCourt is raising prices for next year as it is now, why not get our money’s worth and push for a bona fide superstar at a position where we’ve lacked offense from for the past decade, save Beltre’s career year.
dodgerdude17 I agree completely that we need to atleast try and sign A-Rod I’m just saying I don’t think he’ll come to LA. I still think he’ll be playing SS for the Cubs next year.
I don’t think he’ll be a Cub unless Mark Cuban buys the team, and I don’t think that’ll happen. SF won’t get him for various reasons (which i can give you if your really want them), but the fans really want him there. Boston may, but I don’t think they’ll put up $30 million, and I here their owner may want to keep Lowell. If the Dodgers put up the money, he would come. The Yanks are still in the picture of course. If not the Yanks, I’m guessing Dodgers or Angels. We simply can’t let the Angels beat us out for another superstar (Vlad).
I hope Dodger management looks at the MLB results this year and learns a huge lesson. Contrary to what many are pushing for, I say forget about the high priced, long term free agents! Look at the play-off results. Remember the push to sign Ramirez and Soriano? Now everyone wants A-Rod, but what team has won a WS with him? Etc., Etc. Then look at the Rockies and Diamondbacks. They grew their own talent and stuck with them, and they are mowing down the big payroll teams. We don’t need the high-priced veteran bats who go where the money is but don’t bring the expected results with them. Look at the individual talent on the Yankees, but where are the results?? Go with kids who are still having fun playing the game and play well together. We need the youthful enthusiasm and team concept, not the self-centeredness that seems to come with the big contracts. Arizona was smart in letting Gonzo go. Please, Ned, learn a lesson and don’t repeat the foolish moves you made last year!! You’ve got the talent to compete. Keep them and let them play!!!
Brian Cashman has said various times that if A-Rod opted out they Yankees probably wouldn’t resign him. They won’t be getting the help from the Rangers with his salary like they are now.
you know, I wonder if McCourt’s allegiance to Grady would waver if Torre and/or LaRussa became available. knowing how to win game 7 of the world series VS. knowing how to lose game 7 of the championship series.
just a thought.
Max. Brian Cashman does not decide who’s on the Yankees.
I’m not saying trade the youth. Far from it. Just imagine how good this team would be with the youth plus A-Rod.
actually dodgerdude…Old Georgy boy has pretty much put the team in his hands. It was the reason he almost got fired last year.
Regardless. They know how good A-Rod is, he’s their best player by far. Imagine A-Rod is in talks with Boston, you don’t think the Yanks would step in at all? I just don’t think you can realistically completely push the Yanks out of the picture.
– My opinion: I also think Cashman is at risk of being fired with Torre.
Here’s what Colletti will do:
Sign Lowell
Trade LaRoche…for c-r-a-p
Beg Kent to return
Shop Kemp…for c-r-a-p
Sign Hunter or A. Jones to a ridiculous contract.
Thats enough stupidity for now…I’m sure, in time, I can come up with more though.
UH OH…I just read where the Dodgers and White Sox could be the front runners for Andruw Jones…another expensive mistake in my mind…Andruw isn’t as good as he used to be…but then I guess that’s why Ned likes him..I’d rather have Aaron Rowand..a bit cheaper and great all around player..Andruw strikes out too much and I’ve read where he isn’t even the same fielder he used to be…so Ned probably says “let’s pick up someone on the downside of his career”…YEH..
manny..
agree…just read the Andruw Jones rumor…I hope it’s not true and Ned might have learned from this year…if he does that, obviously he hasn’t!!!…Boras wants 20mil a year for him…even 15 is too much…UGH…I’m mad already….The DBacks and Rockies would never do that…NED..PLEASE DON’T SIGN OVERPRICED VETERANS.!!!
redfox
I totally agree with you about not signing big $$$ free agents…I don’t mind a little tweaking here and there, and if they want a center fielder..then Rowand..but not the big bucks for busts..and I believe Andruw would be a bust…
I agree with the notion of not paying a lot for run-of-the-mill aging veteran free agents. But A-rod will go down as one the the top 5 baseball players ever. He will be the homerun king in a few years. He’s a great player, screw the money, get a-rod. Would you pass on the Babe if u had the chance to get him?
Manny,
I’m dreading that you may be clairvoyant, but I’ve grown to expect the worst from Colletti. As far as I’m concerned, he’s a total midget among the GM’s, and I wouldn’t trust him to tie his own shoelaces. Keeping him and Grady for another year says something about McCourt too.
we never would have a problem with this big bat question if we wouldn’t have signed Juan Pierre.
Everything is Juan Pierre’s fault.
redfox
i agree with you totally. ive been saying forget the signings of big time free agents and start playing the kids since the season started.
we DONT NEED AROD. he has never won…and the idea having him at 3rd base with bunch of kids around him…is just terrible. the kids wont get any attention…only arod will. wen the yankees dont win, nobody says anything about anybody. they only talk about arod. he is a man gang and thats just the way it is. we wouldnt fit well with us and he sure wouldnt win with us….but ok sign him to the richest contract in baseball history..and wen his 10 years are up…we can start rebuilding for 4-5 years and then win a world series
can you say dodgers world champions in 2023!!!
Yankees GM Brian Cashman said one more time Tuesday that he would not pursue Alex Rodriguez if he opts out of his contract.
That means the two sides have until Nov. 10 to work something out if Rodriguez is going to stay in New York. There’s no doubt that Rodriguez will opt out of his contract if he doesn’t get a new offer to his liking. The Yankees can extend him and still keep the money the Rangers are kicking in to help pay him. Oct. 9 – 6:29 pm et
max power
no it really isnt. he is a very good player…i hope pierre has a great year next year to shut all you guys up!
we never would have a problem with this big bat question if we wouldn’t have signed Juan Pierre.
Everything is Juan Pierre’s fault.
Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | October 9, 2007 03:31 PM
Couldn’t have said it better…
So what’s a great year for Pierre? .340 OBP? 3 HRs? He’s never scored more than 108 runs, which is what he’s supposed to be good at right? He had exactly 100 runs scored twice, and under 100 all his other years. For a guy who rarely misses a game, this is very unimpressive. Never more than 55 RBI, everyone says he’s not good at that anyway.
Add the career slugging percentage near that of many pitchers, i.e. only .020 points away from Carlos Zambrano… yea he’s a good player.
Bill…why are you hoping he has a great year next year? If he’s a good as you say he is then what do you consider his year this year?
Fact: Juan Pierre is the worst player on the Dodgers.
Bill…why are you hoping he has a great year next year? If he’s a good as you say he is then what do you consider his year this year?
Fact: Juan Pierre is the worst player on the Dodgers.
Posted by: max_power_05@yahoo.com | October 9, 2007 04:18 PM
really? thats a fact? what book is that in max?…maybe baseball for dummies??
you should read baseball for dummies bill…it will tell you that Juan Pierre is a bench player at best.
From my Baseball Prospectus book:
“Pierre is not a great player, and last season he was not even a good player. As a leadoff hitter, Pierrre ranks 89th among active players in OBP. Nor is he a good outfielder; another fundamental law of the universe that teams have been slow to grasp is that there is no logical reason, no matter how fast a player is, to give him more than 10% of the team`s total offensive playing tim–e when he will never hit a home run or get on base at an average rate. Now with the Cubs, he`ll be an upgrade from that team`s sorry 2005 collection of center fielders, but that`s not saying much.”
that was from the 2006 book.
I think trading Wilson ‘.194’ Betemit was a mistake. Its not that we got back Proctor hes ok. Its the fact that Wilson ‘194’s OPS was like 850. I liked Wilson and think he is a good young player. He still has alot of potential. I hate to give up all that power when we were one of the last in the league in HR’s.
ya well thank god none of you guys are major league managers. yes he isnt worth the money that we are paying him…but he is a good player who plays hard, has a good attitude and like the other veterans leads my example and doenst call out the younger players. he is there to get on base, and score runs…which he does! and this past year he sparked the team so many times…oh and did you forget that he was teh best player on our team for the last two months(with the expection of loney).
Bill I hope Pierre has a good year next year too. He would shut me up because I rip Pierre all the time. What are the chances of that happening though… I’m guessing NONE lol. just kidding Bill, I don’t really hate Pierre I just don’t really like his game.
Bill I don’t think Pierre gets on base very well man. His OBP for this year was like .350, not very good to say the least for a lead off hitter. I think where Pierre hurts us most though is in the field.
Max I wouldn’t go as far to say that the entire season is Pierre’s fault. He certainly didn’t help but we had other problems also…
pierre in the one spot would have made a huge diff.
hey swood. nice fiirst half by the wizards yeah? not that it means anything
Yea Wiz are winning vs. Cavz.
GO DODGERS(always first)!!!!!!
GO WIZ KIDZ!!!!!!
GO REDSKINS!!!!!!
GO VA TECH!!!!!!!
I can’t belive Dallas won last night!!!!!!
I was sooooooooo pissed!!!!!!
Dodgers Willing To Trade Matt Kemp?
Matt Kemp is an incredibly valuable player. Some would argue he’s worth more than $50MM over the next three seasons of his career, and he’ll cost a few million bucks. Then there’s Bill Plaschke, who feels Kemp’s power and speed “have been negated by silly at-bats and baserunning mistakes.” By my calculation Kemp would have to make 742 baserunning mistakes per year to negate his .331/.364/.509 line.
Plaschke has insider sources indicating that the Dodgers think their best chance to win would be to trade a very good young player like Kemp for a veteran. U.S.S. Mariner recently noted just how dangerous the Dodgers’ recent brand of “pro-veteran entitlement” can be.
The question then becomes: which teams match up for Kemp? The Dodgers seem to want a veteran position player, and I imagine the guy would have to be under contract for at least two seasons and probably three. Third base and the outfield corners might be the openings.
Third basemen who could work include Eric Chavez, Troy Glaus, and Scott Rolen. I assume Garrett Atkins is too young. Miguel Tejada could work here also. In the outfield maybe Ken Griffey Jr. or David DeJesus would fit. Dodger fans – do you have confidence in Ned Colletti to spin Kemp into an equally valuable veteran?
NO!!!!!!!!!!
I’d trade kemp and another top tier prospect for miggy cabrera in a heartbeat
and let’s not say the whole season was Juan Pierre’s fault. That’s hardly true. Pierre did exactly what we signed him for. It’s ned’s fault for signing him when our obvious need was a power hitter and not another leadoff guy.
If the Dodgers trade Matt Kemp for anyone I will stop being a Dodger fan.
No, I don’t go back to the Brooklyn days.
Juan Pierre’s OBP this season was a crummy .331. His last three seasons:
Year BA OBP Slg
2005 .276 .326 .354
2006 .292 .330 .388
2007 .293 .331 .353
In other words, he produced the same crummy season three years running. It is extremely unlikely that he is suddenly going to revert, at age 30/31, to being the credible leadoff man he was in ’01, ’03 and ’04, with OBPs between .361 and .378.
Assuming Barry Bonds is done, ARod has to hit 245 HRs to break the record. He’d have to AVERAGE 41 HRs for six seasons to break the record at the end of the sixth season. In his career, ARod averages 44 HRs in a full 162-game season. At that rate, he’d break the record in the second half of the sixth season. If he declines in the later years, it takes longer. If Bonds isn’t done, it takes longer.
That said, if it “only” takes 8 years and $240 million, Frank McCourt should sign immediately and start making money hand over fist.
If ARod is not signed, Ned Colletti should do nothing. Make no trades, sign no FAs; just go with who they already have.
Just because some sports writer says Kemp has a bad attitude doesn’t make it so. And Jeff Kent NEVER said Kemp had a bad attitude, either. He said the “kids” don’t “get it.” All you fans standing in line to crucify Kemp are media-manipulated sheep. Give the poor kid a full season and then we’ll judge the results. But to trade him based on innuendo and rumor? For heaven’s sake, are you the same poeple who want to blow out Colletti, like your current flavor-of-the-month-Kemp-as-scapegoat makes any more sense? This town needs a labotomy.
Trading Kemp would be insane! He will produce much more over the long haul than any of the trades for him that have been mentioned above. And signing A-Rod would be stupid, too. Look at the Yankees. They used to go after all those types of players and it hasn’t gotten them beyond the first round of the playoffs in recent years. If the Yankees won’t go after A-Rod if he opts out of his contract, it should be a lesson for the Dodgers. Boras will seek a ridiculous contract. I say forget A-Rod. He’s a selfish player that only looks out for himself. He asked the Mariners not to trade him in his final contract year, and then wouldn’t resign with them. As a result, they got absolutely nothing for him. Now it appears that he will again leave a team for more money. He wants mega bucks and long term commitments from the teams, but he jumps teams for more money whenever he gets the chance. Where is his team loyalty? We don’t need that kind of chemistry in the clubhouse. Pass on A-Rod and go with the kids!!
No point in arguing about it since hopefully its over, but the Vets-kids thing is a two way street. I bet you both sides are somewhat at fault… kids not giving the vets enough respect or heeding their advice, AND the vets being overly selfish, feeling entitled, not nuturing the young guys, etc. Hopefully the right people stay around with the right attitudes. There are probably some truths to the Kemp attitude problem rumors but its probably exagerrated. All I care about it fielding a winning team. Thats all that matters. Anyone who does want to be part of this team, where the kids are clearly the present and future, can ask for a trade. Simple as that. I think if thats the message that Grady (finally) gets across, the next season will be alot better. If Grady continues to bend over for the vets… well this will probably continue.
time for lakers
Responding to a previous post:
Andruw Jones is still as good defensively as he’s ever been. I get to watch him everyday. Plus he has a rocket for an arm. He had a bad year hitting because he hurt his elbow taking a home run away. Yeah he’ll strike out alot but he won’t put up numbers that low offensively again. He would be a great improvement over Pierre. If we can dump Pierre I’m all for signing Jones.
A quadriplegic would be a great improvement over Pierre.
Ned Colleti in center field would be an improvement over little Juan and his Little arms.
Ned’s mustache would do better in center then Juanito.
I still don’t think Andruw Jones is a bad move as long as its a 3 or 4 year deal, anything longer than that and its a waste, I don’t want a 35+ year-old centerfielder.
The concern about getting A-rod or Jones would be that then Ned would need to “surround them with veterans” like the SF Giants mantra with Bonds.
The more I think about things, I just hope Ned can get nothing done. Just do nothing. Last year he did something and it got us 4th place.
Do nothing is my mantra.
yeah..
“We have to go through the club player by player,” Colletti said. “Some players take longer to discuss than others. There may be a position change or two, and there may be a role change or two that may need to be discussed.”
Colletti wouldn’t get into specifics, but there is a reasonable possibility that fleet center fielder Juan Pierre will be asked to move to left field next season to make room for a stronger arm in center. That stronger arm could belong to Matt Kemp, who just completed his second year in the majors and whose potential remains off the charts, but who still is very much a work in progress. It also could belong to a yet-to-be-signed veteran, with Atlanta’s Andruw Jones and Minnesota’s Torii Hunter heading this winter’s list of free-agent center fielders. Or, it could be someone the club acquires in a trade.
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_7132240?
above and more..
They should just ask Juan not to show up any more.
kinda off topic but did anyone pick up the new Radiohead album last night? if you havent do it NOW!
Some said earlier that the Yankees philosophy of going after high priced talent like A-rod is flawed because they haven’t made it out of the first round since 2004. Well, if that’s how you want to measure success, the last time the Dodgers made it out of the 1st round was 1988. Boston just spent approximately the GNP of a small African country to sign Dice-K and they seem to be doing pretty well right now. Spending big pays off if you spend big on the right guys. Get A-Rod!
I don’t think there is any chance that the Dodgers will even express any interest in A-Rod, and I’m not going to fault that. If A-Rod opts out, which is described as likely, it will probably really escalate the trading value of people like Cabrera or the contract cost of all 3rd base Free Agents, since the Yankees will be in the bidding for A-Rod’s replacement.
The difference in the Red Sox and the Yankees is the Red Sox have starting pitching and the Yankees don’t.
“Looking over the potential list of free agents, it is a very thin list in many areas,” Colletti said. “As time goes on, that list is going to become thinner and thinner year by year. With revenue sharing, teams are signing players to long-term deals and locking them up. And if you go back to July and the trading deadline, that was something we had to consider in deciding whether to trade any of our young players, because how do you replace them?”
I’m actually glad to hear that. Hopefully he knows how valuable Kemp is.
I will fault them for not going after A-Rod. He’s the best player in baseball, we need a 3B, and we CAN afford him. We filled the stadium this year night after night, paid 15 dollars to park our cars, and he’s still gonna raise prices even after making so much money this year. Spend the money on the best player money can buy!
F-ing Crazy.
Most HR through the age of 35:
1 Sosa 574
2 Ruth 565
3 Aaron 554
4 Mays 542
5 Griffey 536
6 Foxx 527
7 McGwire 522
T8 Rodriguez 518
T8 Mantle 518
10 Killer 515
A-rod just finished up his age 31 season.
Yeah he’ll have at least 600 before he’s 35.
I know this is a Dodger blog but what has the world come too. Another school shooting today in Cleveland. Let’s keep the family’s of the wounded students and techers in our prayers. Maybe the ALCS will help the city cope with another horrible in the US.
I continued celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn and moving to Los Angeles. I happened to be in Flatbush, yesterday, observing another interesting part of Dodger history and since I was only a block away from the Ebbets Field Apartments, I decided to take a stroll around it. I circled the field clockwise beginning where the front entrance was on the corner of Sullivan & McKeever Pls. It was like Good Friday, going to a cemetery to visit the grave of a person who I knew had already risen from it, but it seemed like nobody around there new or even cared about it. I was just thinking today about another thing to add to the 50th year celebratons. Yesterday the big news here was about Joe Torre, Is this his last year as Yankee MGR? Since it looks like Grady Little will be around next year, the result of the above didn’t matter to much. But today the news was that Scott Boras said that Alex Rodriguez will be seeking 400 million for 11 years, if the Yankees don’t sign him. Just think he plays 3B, the position we have available. Wow, what an Easter we’d have this spring. Yes, wouldn’t that add to the celebration?
If Scott Boras thinks he’s going to get that kind of money then he has completely lost his mind. Nobody and I repeat nobody will pay that kind of money for one player. I can see somebody paying about $320 million for 10 years but nobody will give him $400 million for 11 seasons. It’s just not going to happen.
I’ve been think about all the free agents and how the Dodgers need a big bat and I’ve come up with my solution for 2008. I know you guys will think I’m crazy but here we go.
Sign Adam Dunn. That’s plenty of power and he’s still fairly young. Yeah he strikes out alot but he’s a pure homerun hitter.
Trade Kemp and Stults or Houlton for Miguel Cabrera. That takes care of third base and some more power hitting.
Package LaRoche, DY or Abreu (who ever they think can stay healty, hit and replace Kent at 2B) along with Stults/Houlton for a #2 pitcher. Left hander if possible.
That leaves us with this line-up for 2008 and beyond.
Pierre
Furcal
Loney
Cabrera
Dunn
Kent/Abreu/DY
Either
Martin
Bills
Penny
The starter we pick up.
Lowe
Schmidt/Loaiza/The rookie we call up when we find out the first 2 aren’t cutting it.
Hendrickson
Beimel
Proctor
Broxton
Saito
To me that’s a whole freakin’ team that nobody will want to play.
Cameron:
I really don’t understand you’re campaign against Kemp. Unless you have some inside info, it completely lacks foundation. Even if Kemp is a complete jerk, he remains and incredibly valuable asset. Cheap, young talent is the only thing that will allow the Dodgers to compete. We all know Colletti is going to waste most of the spending money McCourt is willing to give him. And we also know that Grady is going to severely mismanage whatever Colletti provides him with. If this teams succeeds within the next few years it will be despite management and due in large part to the young kids.
Trading Kemp, Loney, Martin, LaRoche, or Kershaw for anything less than premium long term solutions is completely senseless. Those player should be virtually untouchable both individually or as part of any package. I would list Pujols, A-Rod, and Cabrera as the only players I would take in return for any one or two of those kids. Being that Pujols is untouchable and A-rod may be available next month, that only leaves Cabrera. But as I said, the trade must be long-term (meaning we would sign him to an extension) AND would include no more than 2 of the above players.
Realistically speaking, such a trade would not happen. That would therefore leave Colletti to trade for lesser talents. In such I case I would say it’d be complete stupidity to let any of those guys go. And yes, that includes LaRoche.
I’ll say it here, LaRoche has the potential, provided he’s healthy, to be the best ballplayer out of all of the young kids. Just as management was patient with Gonzo, Pierre, and Nomar all year long, we need to show the same patience with Andy. The prevailing mood seems to indicate that most would be OK with trading him. I, for one, think it might turn out to be the biggest mistake of all.
Manny I totally agree with but would add a few more players to your list of who I would trade them for..Here is my list and even some of these guys make no sense
Miguel Cabrerra
Hanley Ramirez
A-rod
Grady Sizemore
Jose Reyes
Matt Holiday
Curtis Granderson
Prince Fielder
Ryan Howard
Chase Utley
David Wright
I also agree with you on LaRoche and have been saying it for months now. I saw it with my own eyes. He was the best player on the field that included our best young kids.
From last year’s BA Top 10 prospects (Kemp was ineligble)
1. ANDY LAROCHE
2. CLAYTON KERSHAW
3. SCOTT ELBERT
4. JAMES LONEY
5. TONY ABREU
I too am on board the LaRoche wagon. He will be very good.