Today's lineup
For the fan that asked about next year’s schedule, it will be on the Team Photo calendar that is given away at the stadium on Saturday.
Here’s tonight’s lineup:
Pierre, CF
Hu, SS
Young, LF
Loney, 1B
LaRoche, 3B
Ethier, RF
Moeller, C
Valdez, 2B
Lowe, P
Inside the Dodgers 
GREAT DAY wen DY is in the lineup :]
Lets see how Grady can botch this one up like last nights game. 1 run game, I’ll use AARP Hernandez.
Moeller? LOL
i thought i would see LaRoche catching today! LOL
Let me guess Little read plaschke’s article and decided to pull Kemp from the lineup. I mean it makes perfect sense to have Pierre in there in stead of Kemp doesnt it?
How about taking out Pierre and putting in Kemp so this way you have 3 outfielders who can throw? Isn’t that a novel idea?
talk about a spring training lineup…geez.
No Kemp, eh? Incredible–one of the two best bats they have. And, if nothing else, you’d think management would at least make a statement of support by playing Kemp. I’m sorry, Josh, but this organization is an absolute joke. What the **** happened to our Dodgers?
Pierre will never get a day off. For some reason a streak means more than production.
Fliegel – -I’m with you on the OF lineup. Maybe we’ll see that on Fan Appreciation day
i think it would make more sense if i use this account instead of van_19_cute coz my name is Jan not Van!
Pierre is a pinch runner. The sooner the Dodgers figure this out the sooner they’ll get better.
that’s my new account! jan_dodgers
i think valdez is a only a utility player…
i don’t know if he can be a position player someday!
The truth of the matter is that Grady is so grateful to have a job,because he knows that no other major league team would hire him , he doesn’t want to make Ned look bad by not playing his prize.
I don’t even feel like going to the game tomorrow night with the way management is handling things.
This team has much deeper problems than Juan Pierre. Don’t get me wrong–I’m not a fan of JP. But seriously look at everything else going on from (mis)management perspective.
Any guesses for the Fan Appreciation Day Lineup?
Josh,
Can you please inform the Dodgers and more specifically Grady Little that Juan Pierre is not going to catch Cal Ripken’s consecutive games streak. This consecutive games **** is really insulting the fans’ intelligence.
C’mon, Grady! MAN UP!!
Oh, by the way…So when is Chad Moeller a major league player any more? What a joke!
YES!! Juan Pierre is in the lineup. The only thing that matter is that consecutive game streak. Matt Kemps development? Who cares! Matt Kemps development doesn’t lead to championships, Juan Pierre’s consecutive game streak leads to championships.
FIRE NED AND GRADY!
Logan/Girardi 2008
On the subject of Kent. I for one like his intensity and desire. He’s old school all the way and Russ Martin is the only young player that reminds me of that. When you have an old school player like Kent sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. He should have kept it in house, and he probably wishes he did. I’m sure it was his being frustrated by this season. That said , I for one wouldn’t mind to see him retire , he’s not what he once was and I feel that the Ds would be better served with either Abreau if they think he can handle the job , or to go out and sign Orlando Hudson , who I think is a free agent.
hey fliegel,
Yeah, Russ and Kent have a lot in common except the part about one of them being likeable and the other one being a stand-offish a-hole…
It’s true that Pierre is only one problem. But the Dodgers will never be a champion caliber club with him in center.
I’ve been a big supporter of the “kids” all year so I’m happy to see a young, up and comer like Chad Moeller get an opportunity.
scott@whittiermailing I never said they had similar personalities. 🙂
Fligel — Unless the Dodgers can produce an offense that will score 2-3 runs above the average to make up for Pierre’s arm.
Agree?
Totally agree!
Delwyn Young has LIGHT TOWER power.
No Kemp and no Abreu. Why don’t we sit Pierre and really get a feel of what we have on our hands and how they play together?
Lineup should be:
Hu
Young
Loney
Kemp
Ethier
LaRoche
Abreu
Lieberthal
Pitcher
We know what Martin could do and there is honestly no reason for him to play another inning this season with the way they are playing him.
fliegel,
I’m just pointing out some glaring differences that put them worlds apart in my book.
I do like Kent’s toughness, but jeez he could be a little easier to get along with, eh?
Since we’re out of it, I don’t mind Martin getting a day off. He’s no longer an up and comer, and he deserves a break after playing so many games and there’s no wear him out even more.
Let’s see….then who’s suppose to catch then? Moeller or Lieberthal? Flip a Coin, ask the bum on the street, whatever, does it really matter? Geez, criticizing chad moeller being in the lineup over Lieberthal is incredible. I learn something new everyday here.
Young had 4 hits in his last game before he was sent back down. Makes me have a lot of confidence in management.
no need to*
scott@whittiermailing Definately.
This is a totally mismanaged team, from top on down.
What a joke. After everything that’s happened today, Dodgers don’t start Kemp.
Pierre needs a day off too, his arm is really tired,he has way too many outfield assists!!!!
amat87@yahoo.com Just another chapter in the Ned and Grady show.
jkissen, Abreu is hurt and done for the season, I don’t really care about the lineups when the games don’t matter, so whatever, I like Young being given a shot tonight
I hate the Padres!
I hate the Mets!
Hope they both choke and lose!
Amat — Somewhat wise not to start Kemp since when you shine a light in the dark and point to something everyone is going to look (i.e. those that don’t religiously follow the Dodgers will watch Kemp on the day the “controversy” is raised).
Not many people who don’t religiously watch the dodgers will be watching our 4th place team tonight.
Jungar — Again, put the spotlight on them being in 4th place. That leads to McCourt taking some sort of action.
thats ridiculous. anyone that takes the plaschke article seriously obviously isn’t a knowleagable fan anyways.
I think Plaschke is the star of Gossip Girls.
have any of you seen plaschke on Around the Horn? Some of his comments are absurd, and it seems like he just makes up his arguments/comments on the spot. As if the camera lights turn on to him, he see’s the red light, and just blurts out whatever he says.
Not saying that he’s wrong all the time, or off base every time, but just something that i’ve observed about him that leads me to read his pieces with caution.
Plaschke is a tight *** sports writer. I wish he wrote for the washington post. Isn’t it funny how last year we couldn’t lose to the rockies and this year we can’t buy a win.
Also, I’d be willing to bet if you polled the crowd tonight less than 10% will have read the Plaschke column. The column only means something if you all allow it to mean something. Let it die, it’s nonsense.
ok swood
plasccke is a bum. and have any of you guys heard his voice on around the horn? its so weird, its like he spits wen he talks lol
Jungar(Jason) I repeat myself every day it seems about McCourt. He’s more interested in making Dodger Stadium a theme park then he is putting a winning team on the field. Sure its nice that hes trying to improve the park, but if he cared enough about the team he would get rid of Ned and Grady. Any knowledgable Dodger fan knows we can’t win a WS title with those two making the decisions. Maybe after 2008 Grady will be gone and Ned will follow in 09
thats cuz plashke has a lisp.
swood — McCourt can multi-tasks. The Stadium needed attention.
well swood..have you ever been to Dodger Stadium?
In the past, it’s become somewhat dated and inconvenient to use. Compared to the newer ballparks, it is on the lower echelon convenience wise. It’s historical value clearly outweighs its amenities. In the bathrooms, there’s still the old school style urinals where you’re basically relieving yourself into a long and narrow bucket that 10 other guys next to you are using at the same time, with no dividers of course.
I highly doubt that McCourt’s plan is to renovate the stadium at the expense of team play. The problem is that Mccourt’s money hasn’t been spent prudently to get the right players. It’s not like he’s trying to be cheap. Afterall, he did allow for the paying of pierre and schmidt’s contracts this offseason.
This would be sweet!
Twins left-hander Johan Santana may end up with the Los Angeles Dodgers in 2008. According to sources close to the team, Los Angeles is considering an offer that would send lefty pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw and young outfielder Matt Kemp to Minnesota. Kemp would replace Torii Hunter in centerfield. Kershaw, who might be the top prospect in all of baseball, would step into the rotation for Santana. — FoxSports.com
McCourt is not the problem, the problem in dumb and dumber.
scurtis
where have you been??
and NO that wouldnt be sweet
Sorry I have been working and since the season is over I haven’t been on here at all.
What’s the consenses on this?
yeah that would not be sweet, at all.
Wait unitll Johan is a free agent and then sign him.
The main problem with this team is management. Once that’s corrected everything should fall into place. (hopefully)
It could be a good or bad trade either way. Kershaw could end up awesome or he could be Greg Miller.
Same with Kemp. He could become a stud or Mondesi!
Fliegel — I think people are missing the potential free agents NEXT year. This includes guys going into free agency next year (i.e. Furcal).
Let’s get rid of this lousy management first, and then everything will fall into line.
FIRE COLLETTI AND GRADY NOW!!!
I loved Mondy. Anyhow..for fun..
Mondesi at Kemps age now…
86abs as a dodger 22
.291/.322/.488/.810
next year (434abs) 23
.306/.333/.516/.849
16hr, 11 steals
next year (536abs) 24
.285/.328/.496/.824
Kemp (234abs) 22
.338/.373/.530/.903
10hr, 9steals
good source for minor league #s (and MLB numbers):
http://www.thebaseballcube.com
I like what I’m seeing of Hu so far. Seems like he has advanced beyond expectations so far, and it would really be a nice surprise to have an overachiever contend for the club next year. I’m not holding out hopes that Furcal will be around after next year. I’m not even sure that he’s been worth the money he’s been paid so far into his contract. So let’s see more of HU!
Messagebear — Appears that Vin likes saying “Hu’s on first”.
orth_joseph
i think Vin has high expectations on Hu too…
He likes the Kid!
Jan dodgers…Are you the same person as van 19?
He is a great SS but Furcal would be such a great CF too.
Messagebear, Hu’s had what like 10 AB’s…
swood
ya he has but look at his minor league numbers. they are good
play HU and DY!
Im watching AZ and Pirates. It’s raining, it seems like its always raining in Pittsburgh.
I know Joey but so are LaRoche’s and he hasn’t looked very good. I hope hes just going through a bad time, either that or maybe hes still hurt. I don’t know though…hopefully he will show something in this last week of the season…
I swear, I’ve been a Dodger fan since 1951 living in mid-missouri, but if the Dodgers trade Kemp for some over the hill Power hitter it may be the last time I pull for my only favorite team my entire life.
For anyone who doesn’t already know Navarro hit a walk off homer last night vs. the yankees…we should have gotten more then Hendy and Toby Hall for him…another one of Ned’s spectacular trades…
rlglynn I doubt they will trade Kemp for a power hitter. He’s showing(more people would know about him if he played more) that hes already one of the better young hitters in baseball. I think even Ned isn’t stupid enough to trade him.
KEMP IS YOUR BEST HITTER!
KEMP IS YOUR BEST HITTER!!
KEMP IS YOUR BEST HITTER!!!
I know Pierre has a long hitting streak but it would be nice to give Kemp some experience in center. I want to end this Rockies winning streak and Kemp in CF gives us the best chance to do it.
*games played streak
Hu SS
Young LF
Kemp RF
Loney 1B
LaRoche 3B
Ethier RF
Moeller C
Valdez 2B
This is the lineup I would have started tonight.
If I get the team photo, I’m cutting Gonzo out of it. Don’t need any bad memories of a bad player.
I hope Derek didn’t forget his sinker, so he can induce those ground balls, if so than that’s the easy part. Who does he have for run support? let’s see Pierre, Loney, Ethier and the Las Vangelas Kiddie Kore GOOD LUCK DEREK
No reason to keep Kemp out of the lineup, but at least no Nomar, Gonzo or whatever. Nice to see Young get the start.
http://mikesciosciastragicillness.com/
1) Kemp and Kershaw for Santana is intriguing. Santana will be 29 next year, so he could still be really good for at least 5 or 6 more years, one would imagine. Kemp has a lot of promise to be really good, though, as does Kershaw. The question of whether it would be worth the risk is something to ponder. Honestly, I wouldn’t be able to give you an answer on that right now, and if the Dodgers had to include anyone else that’s useful, than forget it. If they want Broxton, it’s Broxton for Santana straight up.
2) Surprise – Delwyn Young bats third. I really don’t get Grady Little, but I like LaRoche batting 5th.
3) So, now Russell Martin gets to rest? But I guess Pierre doesn’t need rest . . .
4) Nearly every “Around the Horn” features Woody Paige and Jay Mariotti, so Plaschke fits right in. The redeeming quality of that show is that Tony Reali gets to hit mute buttons on them.
5) If you look at the cause of the Dodgers’ problems this year, a lot of it was freakishly bad luck. Jason Schmidt was only around for 3 decisions, Randy Wolf went down with injury, Furcal collided with Repko and had a bad year at the plate (but a great year defensively), and Nomar had a down year. Gonzo collapsed in the 2nd half, Pierre was a bit below average by his standards, and Betemit kept hitting the ball right at people when he was a regular starter. This kind of stuff happens, and one would expect the Dodgers to do better without changing anything. And they will do better because they got rid of Tomko.
http://fantasybaseballgenerals.blogspot.com/2007/09/where-did-dodgers-go-wrong.html
i posted this one on the last but..
dont trade kershaw…the last time we gave up on a pitching prospect like this was a big mistake he turned out to be pretty good i think his name was…pedro martinez?.yahh and as for trading kemp that is ridiculous its too early in his career to judge if hes a so called cancer give it some time hes too exciting and productive if he turns into a milton bradley then trade him who knows maybe we will recieve another eithier..get rid of pierre sign hunter/jones then we have a **** good out field.
And they will do better because they got rid of Tomko.
Posted by: patriotacts425@comcast.net | September 26, 2007 04:54 PM
Yea man they got rid of Tomko but they picked up Loaiza, so its an even trade off. Its official that the Twins say they will shop Santana this offseason, I just heard it on their broadcast. He’s pitching right now in Detroit so I will scout him.
Kemp IS good. Forget the promise. Numbers prove it.
I would do Kemp and Kershaw for Santana AND Liriano (he should be ready for 2008). At least we’d be able to control Liriano for a few years. Otherwise, NO WAY.
Yeah I kind of don’t like that rumor either, hopefully it doesn’t blow over I really do.
Santana is the best in the game and I would trade LaRoche and Kershaw for him. I would REALLY hate to give up Kemp though. I think he and Loney are tied for the best young guys on the team and I think both of them have the most potential also. I would love to see them hitting 3 and 4 for us for a long time. So LaRoche and Kershaw for Santana I think would be a good trade.
I would trade Kemp before I’d trade Kershaw. Power lefties with ace potential don’t grow on trees.
I just heard this stat and I thought it was unbelieveable:
In 1998 Sammy Sosa had 100 more RBI’s then then the next closest guy on his team. That is amazing.
No way man. I would trade Kershaw before I would trade Kemp. Dodgers draft for pitchers, we need to keep all the promising young power hitters we have.
I talked to one scout personally a few weeks ago who said he heard a rumor that Ned had talked to the Marlins about Cabrera. Although he said he didn’t think it would happen because the Marlins said they wouldn’t do a deal for Cabrera unless it included Martin who is obviously off limits. If there was any way to get Cabrera without giving up Martin I would do it.
I realize that Kemp is good and that Kershaw is the “ace of the future” but how often do you have the opportunity to sign the best pitcher in baseball? I have consistenly said that they should counter with Ethier/LaRoche/Kershaw but I don’t think it would be the end of the world if the trade as reported happens. At 29 years old, Santana has a lot left in the tank and we would have the best rotation in baseball without question.
hey swood have you seen navarro’s numbers. the dodgers got exactly what they should have for him…
and somebody mentioned getting hudson to man 2nd base. if he is a free agent then i think that would be a great move. his defense is amazing, he drives in runs, and vinny loves him.
Navarro was a super prospect who is obviously having a slow start to his career. AZ traded Randy Johnson for him, and we traded Sean Green for him back when Johnson and Green were still very good. There is no question we could have gotten more then Hendy and Toby Hall for him.
We need to win atleast 2 more games this season. I don’t want to finish with a sub .500 record.
a slow start… its been 3 years and he hasnt shown anything. who cares who he was traded for in the past. he is worthless. the reason was kept him for as long as we did was because he was suppost to be a great defender. he couldn’t hid .200 and his d was just as bad as piazza’s while with us. sooooooooo glad martin saved us
Swood, you have to understand Navarro’s stock had dropped and he had been injured. So he was no longer the super prospect DePo thought he was. Also, Hudson will become a free agent after next season. I’ve always been in favor of having Kent come back next season and then signing Hudson if Abreu doesn’t pan out.
if we could get hudson then we could trade abreu
Trade Kemp & LaRoche for Santanna. Get rid of mistake prone/injury prone MLB wanna bes
I don’t like Navarro now and I didn’t like him when he was with the Dodgers. The fact that he isn’t hitting well right now means nothing. Last year Ned traded him for practically nothing. What did we get a long reliever out of the ‘pen and a backup catcher? His stock must have really dropped considering he was traded for Randy Johnson and Sean Green and now he’s only worth a reliever and a backup catcher? Come on… Ned should have gotten more for him.
Swood–I beg to differ with you on Kemp being our best hitter. Watch Loney as he attacks the ball and keeps his eye on it until contact. Kemp is different. He gets a lot of hits by topping the ball and if the ball ends up where he thinks it will (over the plate), he’ll knock it out. He does not keep eye contact on the ball and drive it. I think that makes Loney the better hitter, though he is not as strong. Observe the style of the two hitters the nex opportunity you get.
cable I agree with you about LaRoche but Kemp isn’t injury prone. He’s still 21 he will stop making those mistakes. The coaching staff should have worked with him more to correct those I think…
*21 or 22 I’m not sure…
good assessment mfuller….i think people attribute Kemp being our best hitter to him having the best power potential and highest ceiling of all.
but I agree…Loney is a better pure hitter in my opinion, and he’s shown a great ability to really develop his hitting at the major league level and adapt to certain pitchers and situation. Kemp, on the other hand, has not developed as much as Loney has in the past couple months. It seems at times that Kemp is up there not knowing what exactly to do with the bat.
situations*
Good point mfuller. I think they are our 2 best hitters. They are about the same as far as I’m concerned. I feel very comfterable when both are at the plate.
Kemp has taken the first step for all young kids coming to the major leagues… he has finally been laying off that hard slider down and away. Last year and the first couple months this year he swung through that pitch alot but hes adjusted.
I would be willing to bet the house (if I had one) that Loney will have a better career BA than Kemp. Kemp will probably be the superior OPS guy.
Charris, what do you mean if I had a house…? Do you live in an apartment or something…?
Anyone find this tidbit interesting from foxsports?
With two hits Monday, Cards SS David Eckstein lifted his average to .310 but an 0-for-four game Tuesday dropped it to .307. If Tony La Russa has anything to say about this weekend, Eckstein’s average will never see the light of .299 or lower again. La Russa said he’ll have no problem removing Eckstein from a game in the final series of the regular season if it appears a .300 average is in jeopardy. — St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Interesting move by Larussa by rewarding his player like that. My take, not to defend Grady and his move by playing Pierre, but i’m thinking that Pierre is getting the start to continue the games played streak as a reward to Pierre for being a hard worker and to serve as a confidence boost going into next year? Perhaps that’s the reason pierre isn’t benched tonight, and probably won’t be the rest of the way, barring injury of course.
I’m just stating my opinion and a possible reason by Grady for playing Pierre, and once again, not condoning the move of playing pierre, so don’t become vultures and attack me please. 🙂
swood..agree, Kemp has adjusted when compared to the beginning of the season. He looked awful, and his strikeouts were pretty predictable at the beginning of the year. Now, he seems to be able to lay off that soft stuff away and down in the dirt. The 1 problem I have with his hitting is that sometimes he looks like he’s out there trying to hit a home run. I’m not sure if that’s his approach, and it probably isn’t, but he takes some viscious cuts sometimes when all he needs to do is take what the pitcher gives you. Kind of like what Loney did last night in his first 3 at-bats. Just going with the pitch is sometimes all you need to do to be sucessful.
swood, I live in a van down by the river.
charris….I agree…
i’d also be willing to bet all I have that Kemp will have 10x’s as many stolen bases as Loney. LOL. Loney seems so slow running the bases.
Sweeney wants to stay with Dodgers
Pinch-hitter Mark Sweeney said that when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season, he would like to re-sign with the Dodgers. “I’m kind of one of those strange guys who’s loyal to people who give me an opportunity,” said Sweeney, who was acquired in a trade from San Francisco in August. “Any time a team trades for you it’s a nice thing. But I don’t know what their feeling is.” Sweeney, 37, ranks second all-time in pinch-hits with 160. — LA Times
Any opinions on this move? I wouldn’t mind him back if the price is right. He has a good approach as a pinch hitter since he’s so used to it. Bring him back and let the killer tomato ride off into the sunset
Hindsight says that the Pierre signing was probably not in the best long term interest of the Dodgers. However he is here and I don’t believe he is tradeable. I think the reasoning for signing him was correct but things changed when we became dependent on the youngsters. His major weakness is his throwing, but he does have strengths. I think we should use reverse psychology and encourage him for his strengths. Things do happen when he is energized and gets on base. The night he was in the lineup with the under 25s, he seemed to have a “killer” instinct. He can be an important part of the Dodger’s future since he is going nowhere. Let’s focus on the positives. Just a thought.
swood, I live in a van down by the river.
Posted by: charris1010321@yahoo.com | September 26, 2007 05:46 PM
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not…
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I still hate Josh Foggs gameday pic! (smirk)
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Don’t worry the fat tomato won’t be back next year. I wouldn’t mind seeing Sweeny back next year. Atleast you won’t have to worry about him complaining about not getting enough starts/playing time. lol
swood can you say chris farley
Carlos Marmol for the Cubs is really really really good. He, Papelbon and Jaba Chamberlain may be the only relievers in the MLB who I would rather have on my team instead of Broxton(and I still might take Brox over Marmol, they are both great).
swood, go to youtube and type in Matt Foley, you’ll get your answer to my comment there.
I guess thats kind of funny Charris. I thought you were like 30 and I didn’t think 30 year olds liked that kind of humor, thats like teenage humor. manfromchina whos chris farley?
swood, your personality doesn’t die when you hit the big 3-0 which is still 2 years from now for me.
Do most people know when you say “I live in a van by the river” that’s what you’re referring to…?
I don’t know Charris I don’t find that pot head humor very entertaining. Maybe you do cuz there are so many druggies out in cali. lol
swood, Chris Farley is like a comic icon, that is a Saturday Night Live skit from the 90’s and most older people probably know what I’m referring to when I make that comment.
Sorry Charris I guess I’m just not old enough… =( There is a great comedian out now named Russell Peters and if you don’t know him you definately need to check him out. I think I need to say though that some of his jokes are a little dirty…
Scott, Moeller is not a young player. He’s a veteran.
Josh, why is Moeller playing tonight instead of Lieberthal? I know Mike has a cush job, but c’mon.
After reading Bill Plasske’s lastest column in the LA Times I decided to send him an email(it could be his first from Australia) to ask him his opinion on the pitching moves that Grady made last night. I’ll be honest I contended that Grady intended to lose the game for what ever reason.
With the game on the line – just 1 run in it – and the kids playing their hearts out why would you bring in your worst pitcher from a bull pen that was stacked with rested arms. The only conclusion I could come up with was that, for what ever reason, Grady did not want to win the game.
Call me what you will but that is what I saw watching the game on MLB.TV.
Josh and Posters,
I have not written much recently because I’ve been very busy (and depressed by the Dodgers elimination). But I read Dodger Thoughts today which sent me to Plashke’s column. And I truly believe that Plashke’s column is the worst piece of journalism (if you can call it that) that I have ever read. I am glad to hear Josh say that he disagrees with the premise–but that “premise” is only that the kids were never “untouchable.” The other premise is that they should trade Matt Kemp, which is far more ridiculous than him being untouchable. I hope that the organization would denounce this too.
I understand that no player is “untouchable.” I would say “anymore,” but it’s always been true–even Jackie Robinson was traded. But the price for a Matt Kemp is not some “veteran” in his “prime.” Kemp is clearly one of the rare talents in the game–as demonstrated by the fact that he is either the best (or second best to Loney) hitter on the team–and he has all the tools, and still needs to learn more. In general, I just associate myself with the comments of Jon Weisman. Many of our young players are destined for All-Star games or more (Loney, for example, would EASILY be the Rookie of the Year had he started in April, and could still win, although the whole clubhouse spat may have poisoned the well–and I view Kemp as having an even higher ceiling, and I have compared him favorably to Willie Mays). To the extent that anyone in management things that trading them for a “proven veteran” would placate the fans, I hope that the responses here, including mine, are clearly that it would only incite us. It is a bad, bad, bad, idea. And while I understand that anything is possible for the right deal, trading a 23-year old for a 27-year old, when the 23-year old is probably as good right now, if not better, in order to win pennants in the future, is logic that applies only in the Bizzarro world.
Fortunately, I don’t really think Plashke’s column is worth the paper its printed on (and I only read on-line, so that’s nothing). But it had to be said.
I actually have many things to say about the Dodgers and the end of the season. And in the end, they end up being pretty positive, despite the huge disappointment. I do want to chime in on one point, because there has been a lot of fire Grady and fire Ned sentiment. For various reasons, I don’t blame them for how the season ended. In many ways, they tried to thread a needle in a very diffuclt way, even though it did not work.
That being said, the Grady issue is the most perplexing. He seems to me to be a fan of the younger players in many ways. He has played them in important situations. By the same token, he has held them back, but in many ways, that was dictated by the availability of veterans, so it’s confusing. I don’t blame Grady for the failure this season (though, he certainly shares responsibility for it). I suspect that if we go into 2008 with a younger team (which seems both inevitable and right), he might be able to deal with them well.
But, without joining the fire Grady calls, every time I hear of more clubhouse fighting, I can’t help but think of Jesse Orosco wiping eye black on Kirk Gibson’s cap on the first day of Srping Training in 1988, and remembering Gibby’s response. There is no way that Kirk Gibson would allow Gonzo to contantly complain about playing time, there is no way that he would allow Jeff Kent to rip players in the press without tearing Kent a new one. And, if the kids have problems (and, as big a fan of the youth movement as I am, of course they have problems), there is no way that he would allow cocky attitudes or allow younger guys, including Kemp to not pay attention to instruction–in fact, when you have a guy who so clearly gives every last ounce, I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t follow him to the ends of the Earth. It’s not unlike the 1987 Dodgers–in the end, Gibby’s .290 average, 25 home runs, and 90 RBI were not all that impressive (as many pointed out, it was one of the weakest MVP seasons ever). But his attitude and hustle was absolutely infectious. Despite losing Fernando Valenzuela mid-way, putting Mike Marshall at first only to move him back to right field when Mike Davis performed awfully (he was worse than Juan Pierre/Wilson Betemit/Luis Gonzalez could have ever dreamed of being, and would be forgotten in the annlas of baseball if he had not worked the mos important walk ever), trading their best position player of the decade (Pedro Guerrero) midway, and otherwise having the same guys that went 79-83, he single-handedly tunred a team that went 79-83 the prior two years into a world champion. We could use a big bopper in the heart of the line-up, a third-baseman, a long reliever, and a 5th (and maybe 4th) starter. But we can win with the pieces we have. What we really need is a Gibson.
Swood, your ideal lineup for tonight has no CF. You planning on playing two RFers?
I would trade Kemp if it meant we got Johan Santana in return. Santana wants a contract extension in MN, and may very well find himself traded in this offseason. If it takes Kemp and a pitcher (Kershaw?) to get Santana, you gotta pull the trigger. It would be hard to trade those two, but if Kershaw’s *ceiling* is a CY, then why not get a guy in in his prime who has a few already. Not all highly touted prospects pan out — see Edwin Jackson.
And if Santana doesn’t go for our contract offer he walks and we’ll have given up part of the future for a years hire .. not something I’d like to see happen.
… assuming Johan signs an extension.
Ok .. that I can live with.
Swood, your ideal lineup for tonight has no CF. You planning on playing two RFers?
Posted by: adevandry@yahoo.com | September 26, 2007 06:30 PM
And you call Pierre a CF. LOL.
I would not even call him a decent LF.
Does anyone want to sign a pitcher for at least 7 years at about 21-22 million a year? Because that is what it would take to sign Johan to an extension.
I hope we win at least one from the Rox, this is getting pathetic!
jffelix, can you say darren driefort, kevin brown.
but Santana agent is not Boras.
I just feel everytime we bring in a big name pitcher, give him some good money it never pans out.
From a commenter on the Dodger Thoughts blog:
—————————–
541. Branch Rickey 2007-09-26 16:52:53
For those who trust that I have a few credible sources, I’ll offer the following. Nobody that is a Dodger coach thinks that Kemp is the problem or even A problem. He doesn’t always display a perfect work ethic but it’s not out of the range of normal for current players. Loney is a rock.
Kent is friend to nobody (by his own choice) and leader to nobody (though he seems to think otherwise for some reason). His mistakes are as rookie as Kemp’s. Does anybody remember the game where he caught a relay throw and put his head down as the runner rounded third and scored? The Dodgers do. It was suggested that if Abreu had done that, he’d probably have gotten an immediate trip to Vegas. So where is Plaschke’s column coming from? I have no idea but unless upstairs is completely out of tune with downstairs, he is badly out of touch on this one. I have appreciated Kent’s approach to the game but his current behavior is ridiculous and I’m hoping he’ll pack it in and go back to the farm.
—————————–
I’ve read enough on that blog to believe that this guy does have “a few credible sources”.
The Rockies will remember Delwyn Young.
lean like a cholo.
how bout DY!! i really like this kid and have been watching him for the past two years at AAA. this kid is legit. i just hope management doesnt let him go..
Is a shame that the Mets are about to get sweep at Shea.
I’m tired of the rox always scoring first on us.
Lowe needs to hit someone in the earhole.
I included the 32yr. old Chad Moeller in the “kiddie Kore” let me correct that.
I don’t know what’s going on, but being a Dodger fan for 1000 yrs. I find myself Now, rooting for a Padre Loss, than a Dodger win ???? What’s up with that ??????
DY strikes again
:]
Having one of those Derek Lowe scoring games so far.
Having one of those Derek Lowe scoring game.
Looks like LaRouche’s back didn’t hurt on that play. Nice leap!!
Patience, LaRoche. You said as much in your online chat.
Lowe offensive curse continues
That was a good inning Young, Loney, LaRoche & Ethier showed good plate discipline, even though we couldn’t score.
Hey Everyone, I was just having a chat with my dad over the phone. He is a huge Dodger fan and has followed the team closely since the mid 60’s. We were talking about all the great young talent the Dodgers had and I mentioned to him the rumors about the Dodgers maybe trading some of the talent away for a proven veteran or a stud pitcher, etc. He reminded me that the Dodgers had all of this young talent in the early to mid 70’s with Garvey, Russell, Lopes, Cey, Baker, etc and the Dodgers were patient and let these guys develop and it turned out they had a solid group of guys for years to come. The fans had such an attachment to these guys because they were from the farm and with the team for such a long time. They really were the heart of the Dodgers and the city. I am really starting to feel the same attachment to these kids. I find myself rooting for the young guys harder then I do for those cry baby veterans.
I am of the opinion the Dodgers really need to go back to that. There is no reason to be frivilous with our money and spend on risks and older veterans, when we havec this much young great talent. Plus, with the exception of possibly A Rod, Lowell, Hunter and maybe Andruw Jones this years free agent class is pretty weak. I would really make a push for A Rod, but outside of A Rod I am not impressed at all.
I personally think it would be in the Dodgers best interest to let these kids play next year, let them develop and get experience and see what we really have on our hands. If we see there are some players aren’t cutting it and aren’t developing then we can make some moves. I would just hate for the Dodgers to get trigger happy and pull a Juan Pierre signing this year just because they got nervous the Giants were going to sign him.
I just hope Dodger management is smart and doesn’t jump the gun and panic and realize they have a special group of guys on their hands and it is in their best interest to keep them around and build a solid foundation for years to come. Any thoughts?
Kinda fitting if Lowe loses this game that he lost pitching his *** off and the Dodgers gave him no run support.
NEW PITCHER maybe,just maybe
JKissen — Well said, but you can’t hope the kids ARE Garvey, etc. They are Kemp, Ethier, Loney, etc. and maybe they will equal or surpass the great teams of the 70s and 80s. Time will tell but looks promising. Let’s hope management remembers and has the old-school still being heard (i.e. Lasorda).
FOR LOWE ANOTHER WELL PITCHED GAME WITHOUT A WIN. FUNNY HOW MANY TIMES THIS HAPPENED
jkissen
you hit the nail right on the head. thats what i have been saying all along and i truely believe that is the way to go. it worked for us before and its working for a lot of other teams. the atlanta braves of the 90’s were a dynasty…they were the most dominating team in baseball for 7 years. 91-96. they made the world series 4 out of 5 times and it should have been 5. they did the same thing that the dodgers of the 70’s did and the same thing that i think we SHOULD do. let the kids play, have fun, and be themselves. and see wat we get out of them.
Good Inning Jon. I’m wondering why Little didn’t let Lowe continue pitching at least until he reached 100 pitches.
AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
This is inexplicable.
Remember, the Dodger season is over. 2-out single in the bottom of the seventh with the Dodgers down 2-0, a LOOGY is brought in to face Juan Pierre and BOTH MATT KEMP AND JEFF KENT are on the bench. HELLO GRADY – how about a pinch-hitter here?????
Last night, down by one, Roberto Hernandez comes in to pitch the ninth instead of, say, Jonathan Broxton or Joe Beimel. He gives up 2 runs, so Delwyn Young’s HR cuts the lead to 2 instead of being a game-tier. Tonight, down by TWO runs, Broxton is in. HELLO GRADY – where was Broxton LAST NIGHT??????
Gawd Dawg Almighty!
terrible ump!
take away young’s third hit of the game! still did great tho. on base 3 times and should have been all 4
Can’t even get the call in our own park.
pierre – the Dodger season is over. no real point in having Lowe throw more than 90 pitches or so – it was 89 tonight. Good start for Lowe. Behind in the bottom of the 7th, I’m behind PH for the pitcher, even no one on and two outs.
8 guys LOB so far
Vin Scully said it is a very frustrating night for the Dodger hitters. I say it has been a very frustrating CENTURY for the Dodger hitters.
And now Saito. Thanks Grady, where the heck were these guys yesterday??? I’ve been trying to stay off the “Fire Grady” bandwagon, despite his in-game gaffes – because most managers aren’t very good – but this is becoming too much.
Yesterday was Japanese-American Community night too, a perfect setting for a Saito appearance.
I am really liking this Hu kid. Knowing Furcal is in the last year of his contract you think he may be involved in a trade to a team who is looking for an expiring contract or a rent a veteran.
Saito is a work of art.
Why the h*ll does Gonzo have a helmet on!?! Sit his sorry a*s down!!!
I’d rather keep furcal. I expect him to have a bounceback year.
Completely agree with you old fogey. These games are being managed to help Colorado it seems. La Roche should have been PH for as well. 15 Ks in 39 ABs in September.
Since the season is over, that’s why I figured it would be no harm to let Lowe go on,ORTH JOSEPH
,
Go Gonzo. Show them how to make the last out!!
And now Saenz?
SAENZ!!!!!!!! I just threw up in my mouth.
Saenz can only hit fastballs deep.
Gifts!!
Kemp is going to run…with his history of gaffes? Trial by fire I guess. Exciting though.
Grady testing the vets here with Nomar on deck?
You would think that if any player is be be mad, it’s Lowe. He’s won a ring though, but still…..he seems to understand that the lack of run support would be taken into consideration when he’s up for a new contract.
I just don’t get it! It was bad enough that Kemp didn’t start, but not using him as a pinch hitter in the 9th inning is INEXCUSABLE. He was the best chance for tying the game once a runner was on. Using him as a pinch runner was a big waste. He should have been used as a pinch hitter for Pierre if not after Gonzo’s hit.
Suppose Nomar had PH for Hu and we tied it up,then who would have played short and 2nd? I guess Young at 2nd and La Roche at short with Kemp staying in the game to play RF and Ethier moving to LF. This is all under the assumption that Abreu,Furcal,Kent,and Martinez are all too hurt to play today as I have read.
Derek Lowe will be 35 next season and still under contract to the Dodgers. No point in taking more pitches out of his arm tonight.
I understand Gonzo PHing, he’s lefthanded. I don’t understand OLDmedo PHing instead of a real power bat, such as Kemp or Kent. Once OLDmedo reaches, he has to be PR for with a fast guy – that’s the tying run – and Abreu’s hurt so Kemp. But a power bat still has to hit for Pierre – that would be Jeff Kent. Nomar (RH) on-deck to hit for Young (LH) is simply ridiculous. And if Kent’s knee is too sore to bat, then Kemp hits for Pierre and let Ramon Martinez run for Olmedo – he’s fast enough with two outs.
why does it matter? if grady cared to win he wouldn’t have put out this lineup with only a few competent hitters in it. its as simple as that.
or maybe Nomar at SS.
While I think using capital letters is inexcusable, I agree with your post redfox.I am embarrassed by the way these two games have been managed. San Diego, Philadelphia,New York Mets,and even Arizona have every reason to be incensed at us.
I assumed Nomar was on deck to hit for Hu from orth’s post. Sorry if that was not correct.
Agree with you again fogey.(Martinez with bad elbow hasn’t played since Sept.18 but you would think he could PR.
Is it possible that Little doesn’t think anyone on the roster except Pierre can catch the ball in CF?
outfield?
young lf
kemp cf
ethier rf
Jayson Addcox wrote in his mlb.com story on the game:
“Chin-Lung Hu, who started in place of injured shortstop Rafael Furcal, mishandled a grounder by Matt Holliday allowing Matsui to score.”
Hello – that was rightly ruled a hit, because the ball was smoked and few observation thought any SS would get to it.
Derek Lowe can’t learn to shut up. Tonight he was questioned on the impact of Little having “call ups” field a ground ball pitcher and said, “Pun intended, it doesn’t matter Hu is playing behind you, you know that the other team is fielding their best players.”
????? Kent is apparently resting the knee he jammed last night (when he should have lowered a shoulder into the catcher), Furcal is hurt, Abreu is hurt, Martinez – as miketink pointed out – is hurt. The only choices left for middle infield are Hu, Valdez and Young – and I think Young at 2B behind Lowe might have been pretty ugly.
10:39 P.M. – “… and few observers thought any SS would get to it.”
Can’t agree with you on the Holliday play.That ball should have been kept in the infield without a run scoring.
Still was ruled a hit. Anyway, it’s not like Lowe got Holliday to hit a routine grounder – still a hard-hit ball.
More important is Grady’s willingness to pitch Broxton and Saito down two runs tonight, but not down one run last night. What’s behind that? Did he get a nastygram from Charlie Manuel and Bud Black for not trying hard enough to win last night?
Does it really matter if he did put those 2 in last night? It would had made a different anyway. The season was lost when we didn’t swept SF like we should had.
I meant it would’ve had made a different anyway.
Was listening to the radio tonight, there were some reporters on who are in the clubhouse that said that during last nights game Gonzo was openly whining in the dugout about not playing. This is the kind of “veteran presence” that Ned brings in. Classic. Also they said that all the reporters that he had talked thought Kemp was an a-hole who thought too much of himself. Take it for what its worth, which could be nothing. Just telling you what I heard.
Wow, I can’t express how dissappointed I am in Lugo, Lowe and Kent. Did Lowe really say that? PATHETIC! PVL is so overrated in baseball. Its not the NBA. Anyways, D YOung seems to be for real. Just wish we could trade JP for a Ethier Kemp DY combo in the outfield. Wouldn’t that be fun to watch.
I was at tonight’s game and I was absolutely beside myself with Grittle’s ninth-inning idiocy. The final three decisions of the game were indefensible.
1) Hitting Olmedo Saenz with his .184 BA as the potential tying run with two out in the ninth while Matt Kemp was on the bench with his .333 BA was insane
2) Then putting Kemp in to run for Olmedo was a pure waste of the best BAT available, arguably the best bat on the team. Besides, if you were going to run Kemp for Olmedo anyway, why bother hitting Olmedo?
3) Letting Juan Pierre bat with the tying run on first and two out in the ninth was a plan virtually doomed to failure. The odds of Pierre driving anybody home from first are virtually nil. Pierre’s pitiful hits usually aren’t deep enough to drive in a guy from second, let alone first. Allowing Pierre to bat in that situation meant that the only possible way to tie the game up would be with a hit by Pierre and another immediately after — oh, and you KNOW that Pierre wasn’t about to take a walk. The guy who should have been batting was instead standing at first.
Losing tonight wouldn’t have killed me since we’re already dead. Of all the teams still vying for a playoff spot, the Rockies are the team I would most like to see make it. But losing in such a stupid manner was outrageous and embarassing.
But forget about the offense Grady caused to Dodgers fans. I wonder what Bud Black, Bob Melvin, and Charlie Manuel think of a fellow manager absolutely giving away a ballgame to a team they are battling for a playoff spot. I don’t know, but if I was any of them I would be livid.
Just to clarify, I’m not suggesting that Grady purposely gave the game away. I fully believe that Grady is a man of integrity. Unfortunately he is a manager without a clue.
Please, please, FIRE GRADY!!
From the LA Times:
Young is quickly making an impression on Little and the manager said he would probably give the rookie more playing time as the season winds down.
WHERE WERE YOU GUYS WHEN YOUNG WENT 4-4 AND GOT SENT DOWN???
As a die-hard Dodger fan since 1969 I have NEVER been so embarrassed for a “team.” This group needs a gag order…and quick!
lowe’s comments after the game posted above are taken completely out of context. For those who actually watched the interview immediately after the game on Dodgers Live would have seen that Lowe said “no pun intended, it doesn’t matter hu is behind you”, and then he went on to say how it doesn’t matter what team is fielded, you go out to play your best no matter what.
After the interview, Steve Lyons and Kevin Kennedy were praising Lowe for being a stand up guy and not caring who the players were that were behind him, and not letting the fact that young guys were getting opportunities affect the way he pitched.
The interview was a positive one, and i like how it’s spinned into a derek lowe “anti-kids” comment. The Spin Zone never ceases to amaze me. If you disagree, watch the interview live and the words come out of Lowe’s mouth, and the full context of his statement decide for yourself. Not just little tidbits that supports your pre-conceived agenda about the kids v. vets situation.
Unbelievable.
About the Gonzo situation, and him complaining in the clubhouse. Well, that’s not too odd since he’s already portrayed by most as a Whiner about playing time. If that’s true, then he has his own self-problems and he knows he’s not coming back next year anyways.
I still would like to hear details about what he said, how he said, and etc. if there were so openly made statements by Gonzo. I would be interested in exactly what he said about the situation if it was indeed true. I want to hear it for myself, since we all know comments/statements can and will be taken out of context to serve an ultimate purpose.
Just like Lowe’s post game comments where, you can never be too sure until you hear it from the horse’s mouth.
In sum, i can’t wait for the “I hate Lowe”, “Lowe is terrible”, “Lowe isn’t a true dodger” comments to start now that his comments have been spun to portray him as another vet who is a clubhouse cancer.
And as far as the Hu play that was ruled by a hit after holiday’s hit, it was correctly ruled a hit, that’s for sure. It’s a super tough play to make.
However, i believe that if Raffy was out there, he would have made the play. Granted, he might have not gotten the man out on first, but the least he could have done was field the ball and keep it from going into CF. Raffy has made these super tough plays all season long, and his range as **** is unquestioned.
With that said, Hu is not to blame for that play since it was indeed smoked and a tough one for him to make, and for any SS to make. It’s just that Raffy has so much range that you can’t help but think that he would have been able to knock it down at the very least.
Just an observation on my part. You can agreee or disagree with my assessment. Just don’t knock, bash or spew hate at me for thinking so. Thanks!
Swood
im van_19_cute…
by=as
oh i mean…
jan_dodgers is my account too…
Good News: From an excerpt in a Latimes article, we have Gonzo stating the obvious. At least now its confirmed. 🙂
While Kemp professed his desire to remain a Dodger, outfielder Luis Gonzalez, who expressed frustration at seeing his playing time doled out to younger players, confirmed what had been talked about for weeks.
“I’m not coming back,” said Gonzalez, 40, a clubhouse favorite and big league mainstay for nearly two decades. “You can write that down. It’s no secret.”
Asked if there would be any mixed feelings leaving the franchise, Gonzalez said, “Nope. Just moving on. Cutting the cord.”
I can’t wait until he’s gone because I want to really hear what he has to say about the Dodgers. He’s nothing but a washed up piece of ****.
He probably whines to his wife when his daughters don’t give him enough playing time with their Barbie dolls.
Better news:
From dodgers.com:
Kemp trade bait: That was the suggestion of one local columnist, but here is Little’s reaction to that:
“Don’t believe what you read or hear on the radio.”
Little was outfielder Matt Kemp’s biggest fan last year and Kemp has done nothing to diminish the support, even with the rash of baserunning mistakes he’s made in recent weeks.
“In no way is Matt Kemp a finished product, but he’s made a lot of progress in his plate discipline and learning how to play the game every day,” said Little. “A lot of players learn from their mistakes. He will be a good baserunner. He went through a spell of running errors and they came in bunches, five or six in a five-day period. But for every one of them, there were extra bases he took many times over.”
Oh how I can dream for a Young, Kemp, Ethier OF but it will never happen.
Thanatos: Which current Dodgers player has been the biggest help to you in the transition to the Major Leagues?
Andy LaRoche: I’d probably say Russ Martin.
Whoa? Not Nomar? Not Jeff Kent? Not Gonzo? Isn’t that why we have them?
I’m certainly glad that Gonzo is down to his last few days as a Dodger for a couple of reasons. First of all, he was an unproductive player who is probably past his prime and got a nice contract from a GM who likes overpaid under performing veterans. The second reason I’m glad he’s leaving is that as unproductive as he was he is a class guy and does not deserve to be called the things that people like cameronwalden24, are calling him. To call him a “washed up piece of ****” and then to mention his wife and kids, Gonzo deserves better than a low life “fan” like that. I love the Dodgers and I hate the situation that they’re in and I have posted my share of negative comments on this blog, but never have I called someone out by using profanities or involving their families. Dodger fans are better than “cameronwalden24”. I love the posts of all the regulars on this blog, but you guy, went overboard. Maybe Gonzo thinks the same of you!!
kiper04,
I really don’t care what you or Gonzo think about me. I tell it like it is. He’s a big baby and if it weren’t for steroids he wouldn’t have been anything in this game. In my mind he’s a piece of **** that should forget about baseball and start teaching his girls fast pitch softball. But once again something was suppose to be a joke. I guess some people don’t have a since of humor.
LaRoche saw Van Halen. That was my first concert ever. Van Halen 1984. I was 13 and it was at the fourm.
Poor Andy. I saw Van Halen in their prime!! He was not even born yet! The Van Halen he just saw was the 2007 Luis Gonzales version. I saw the 2007 A-rod version..
cameronwalden24, first of all I have a sense of humor, not a “since of humor” and to be honest with you I don’t think anything or much of you!!
As for the fast pitch softball, I’m sure they can already bring it with more heat than you.
Kiper04
Explain to me how he is a Gonzo is a class guy? All he did the second half of the season was whine like a freakin’ baby. What he should have done was show some class and sit hit *** on the bench and played when he was asked too. But no he has to go classless on us like he did last year in AZ and whine about sitting when he with out a doubt wasn’t producing. So tell me how you get class out of that?
Casino..GREAT. GREAT post, on the actual Lowe, clubhouse comments. That was classic !!!
Everyone is just waiting to jump on ANYTHING, and turn it into a negative….Loved it..
Kiper..great posting, and i agreee and disagree.
First of all, i’m glad he won’t be back because we have players in the wing, and i’m glad he was only signed to a 1 year deal.
Second, i disagree just a bit. He had a pretty good season and put up good numbers. He had his moments this year when he was going well and he helped this team. Not to mention some nice home runs when we needed them. With that said, his season wasn’t stellar by any means, but his production was closer to good than horrible in my opinion, but certainly not Great.
Lastly, i agree with your point about personal attacks and character assasination type posts. As i’ve maintained my entire time on this blog, i’m a fan as much as anyone else on this blog, and respect anyone’s opinion about the players and their play. What i don’t agree with however is when comments get personal and it turns into attacks on a guys character. A good example is Gonzo and how people, all of a sudden,are hating Gonzo with all their might. Talking about steroid use, ego trips, etc. Latest example would be Kent and how some labeled him a racist these past couple days. Josh has gotten some of this heat as well, and just the other day Lowe’s extra-marital affairs was brought up and what looks like the startings of an “anti-lowe” campaign was brought up a couple posts above.
Sometimes, i wish fans would stick to the players as players and their play. That’s all we should be judging them by since we don’t know any of them personally and interact with them on a day to day basis. Gonzo is a class guy, and has been throughout his career. Even the excerpt I posted above about him leaving had the reporter labeled him as a “clubhouse favorite and big league mainstay”. Fox broadcasters in our nationally televised games commented on how cool Gonzo was, and they probably know what they were talking about more than us since they’re more involved in the game as employees than us.
I’m not saying you should not have your opinion on these players, and who you like or dislike. Just that if you’re going to portray him as a bad guy, have some hardcore, first hand facts to support it, rather than just spewing it out and tacking it on to highlight their horrid play on the field. Otherwise, me knowing that he didn’t tip his waiter the usual percentage and therefore he’s a cheapskate doesnt have any bearing on his play.
You would think the on-field play and performance would be ammunition enough, so please stick with it if you can. It holds more weight.
I like how you pre-judge me on how I can bring it. Don’t forget JB is my cousin. If it wasn’t for arm problems and a torn up knee you’d probably be watching me on TV right now.
Casino..GREAT. GREAT post, on the actual Lowe, clubhouse comments. That was classic !!!
Everyone is just waiting to jump on ANYTHING, and turn it into a negative….Loved it..
Posted by: pat25rod@sbcglobal.net | September 27, 2007 09:36 AM
thanks pat25. I saw that interview with lowe live and the reaction by the studio analysts afterwards and thought it was great and showed what a good guy Lowe was. I was somewhat shocked (not really, with all the spin around here) to find out that it could be twisted as him disapproving of the kids and being a hater of their talents. I didn’t want that to start the entire “anti-lowe” campaign where he would join the likes of Gonzo, Kent, Ned, Grady, Josh, Nomar, Hernandez, Proctor, Hendrickson, Tomko, Saenz, Ramon MArtinez in the Dodgers Hall of Hate.
Like i said, if anyone disagrees, then watch the interview.
First of all cameron, I’m in Az and over the last 5 years here in the state of AZ, Luis Gonzales personally funded the creation of 5 baseball facilities for kids, Little League parks, all 5 of them in low income communities. He still does commercials for a Japanese restaurant here in AZ and he donates his pay from those commercials to different charities. That the guy was whining about playing time after posting the numbers he did, yeah, he was wrong and showed no leadership whatsoever. That he got paid a lot of money for nothing this season, yeah, absolutely, but to call him a “washed up piece of ****” that’s not telling like it is, that’s just being angry and bitter.
MR. NICE GUY
At worst, Arizona had acquired a guy who came with no baggage and a reputation as one of the classiest guys in the game.
“When we made the trade, I got unsolicited calls from people saying, ‘Wait until you get to know this guy,’ ’’ Garagiola said. “They told me, ‘You have just gotten one of the alltime good guys.’ ’’
Bench coach and original Diamondback Jay Bell first met Gonzalez at an exhibition game at South Alabama, where Gonzalez went to college.
“Even then he was this outgoing and very likeable guy who treated everybody the same,” Bell said. “Guys really respected him because of that.”
Nothing changed when Gonzalez’s star rose in Phoenix.
He made small talk with fans and clubhouse workers. He never turned down community appearances, forcing the organization to exercise restraint in its requests of his time.
When parking lot attendant Lou Monaco had a heart attack a few years ago, Gonzalez visited him in the hospital. And when Gonzo got the call from Jay Leno to appear on “The Tonight Show,” he took batting practice pitcher Jeff Motuzas with him and forced him to do a dance to warm up the audience before air time.
“Thank God they never videotaped it because Gonzo was going to play it on the JumboTron at BOB,” Motuzas said.
“I’m a big believer that you can tell a lot about a person by how he interacts with people who either can’t help him or he doesn’t have to be nice to,” Garagiola said. “Watch Gonzo. He treats everybody the same way and that way is the way you would want to be treated no matter who you are — a fan, an opponent, a member of the media or a visiting clubhouse guy.
“People who are used to taking a lot of grief from socalled stars are stunned when they meet him because Luis is 180 degrees away from that.”
And everyone who meets him says it’s genuine.
I’m not angry at all. I didn’t say anything about him not being a great citizen or a nice man off the field. I’m simply talking about on the field and in the clubhouse. He’s a big baby. He has no class inside the clubhouse. All the reports say he’s well liked in the clubhouse. By who? Oh yeah that’s right, the vets like him and it doesn’t matter what the young guys think. None of the kids respect him nor should they. What has he done for them except slow down their learning process.
Even before Gonzo became a Dodger, and I barely followed his career, I already knew that he was a goodguy since so many people and broadcasters said so. Certainly, they would know more than what any of us have seen from watching his play.
Once again, not to defend his comments to the press and his frustration of losing playing time, nor his performance this season, but you can’t really dispute the fact that he’s a good guy unless you know him and can say otherwise.
kiper, you and I agree on most topics but I don’t really see eye to eye with you on this one. Regardless of your personal opinion of Gonzo, his character etc. everybody has a right to their own opinion and unless its really inappropriate, they can share those views here. I’m not condoning what cameron is personally saying about Gonzo, but it certainly is his right to share his views. Gonzo’s whining disappointed me this season, but I think that he’s a class act for the most part. It isn’t his fault that Coletti signed him and put him in a position where he was set-up to fail.
charris, agreed. I never said I had a problem with people criticizing anybody, especially Gonzo. If I say that Gonzo was a terrible acquisition and a guy who did not lead by example because of his whining about playing time, I’m telling it like it is. But if I called him a “washed up piece of ****” then I would be attacking him personally and his character. I can’t do that since I don’t know him and quite frankly I’m angry at the situation not the person. Cameron is entitled, like all of us, to his opinion and I respect that, but I don’t respect anybody who uses that kind of angry rhetoric in assaulting a person’s character. If I used the same type of wording to describe somebody, I certainly would not expect anyone on this blog to respect me.
whos jb??
Kiper why do you think I’m angry.
regardless of the situation here this year, I personally wish Gonzo good luck and hope that he finds a better fit next season, hopefully on a team where he won’t have an opportunity to hurt us.
i concur charris
im just wondering if the fans in AZ had change how they feel about gonzo!
i mean, last time the dodgers played in AZ the fans aren’t cheering for gonzo anymore.. some are!
Kiper04,
I’ll be a man about the whole situation and apolgize to you for phrasing things in a way that you thought to be offensive. Instead I’ll change my comment to, “I think he’s a player that’s at the end of his career, the Dodgers do not need a vetern player that whines about playing time when he clearly isn’t better than the player replacing him. The clubhouse is very young and doesn’t need to be tought to handle things in that way. They need a player who has more class and accepts the role of teacher to the kids like Mike Leiberthal does.
Sorry to offend you kiper and get on your badside. I’m a Dodger fan just like you are and I’m not going to hate on one of my teammates as a fan.
Az fans don’t cheer for Gonzo because he is a Dodger!! He still lives in the valley and he is still involved in a lot charitable work and does commercials for several businesses in the Phoenix and Tucson area….
cameron, I think most of us agree with your last post. Lets hope Coletti wakes up and sees it too.
cameron
Honestly, I wasn’t offended personally, I can be as foul as the next guy, the thing is that I don’t like attacking peoples character in that way. Having said all that, cameron, no problem man, we’re all frustrated from a terrible season that went to ####!! No apology needed, like you said, we’re teammates.
so I have to pose this question, would you guys be against us offering LaRoche/Ethier/Kershaw to the Twinkies for Johan? Keep in mind that LA has a huge latino following and that Johan would be embraced by our community and more likely to sign with us after playing here for a season.
No I do need to apologize because like many of our young players I’m young and still learning. Sometimes people don’t interpert things the same way. I wasn’t really trying to say the man was a piece of **** just like I don’t think people really think Jeff Kent is garbage. I just don’t like the way he handled things this year. Everybody says he is a class act and I’ve always thought that way too until he started whining last year and this year. He’s still a great guy and does more for the community than I’ll ever be able to do. I was just disappointed in the way he handled things.
charris, I wouldn’t mind that trade, IF!!! The Dodgers would secure a power hitting third baseman, LaRoche is dispensable, and Ethier can be replaced by Young. Kershaw, like everybody else, has potential but Santana has a track record!!! I would definitely love a rotation of:
Santana
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Loaiza/Schmidt/Wolf
But we need a power hitter.
agreed kiper, with such a thin FA market for power hitters, I really wouldn’t mind Jones or Hunter coming our way, it makes Young and Pierre (we would have to eat salary) much more dispensable as well.
I still think DY should be our answer at 2B. That would give us the chance to get a big bat in the outfield.
What do you guys predict Laroche to be? I think he’ll be an Adam Dunn type player. I think he’ll hit a lot of hr’s but he’ll strike out 3 times as much. That’s if he can stay healthy.
good call cameron, well if I could play GM for a second, this would be my ideal lineup for ’08:
Furcal ss
Martin c
Loney 1b
Kemp rf
Hunter cf
D Young 2b
Hu/Abreu/Garciaparra 3b
Pierre lf
Santana
Penny
Lowe
Billingsley
Schmidt/Wolf/Loaiza
Meloan
Beimel
Proctor
Broxton
Saito
That looks championship caliber to me.
Good day all. I’m a bit more optimistic about the team today after reading the Times articles with Vin (guy always brings me up; met him in Atlanta).
Here’s why. Given that we have kids who can take over certain positions and trade and vets leaving or could leave, here a question. If there is no leader brought in (i.e Santana, Jones, ARod or Hunter), is it the manager’s job to be that leader?
My point. Kent has an option for next year. I honestly think Ned, Grady and/or McCourt need to sit Kent down and say, “This is what we see as your role next year — the kids are our future, PERIOD!. You will start the season and spell your time between Hu, Martinez, Young, etc. at 2B at the discretion of the manager. You will also mentor these guys along. This is your role. If you feel your personality and/or attitude cannot do this, we would ask you not to exercise your option since that is how we plan to use you next year. We feel this team has the talent to win but we each need to take a role. If you accept this role, it will be for the whole year. If you become a distraction, it may lead to anything from benching to designation for assignment or release from the team”
In all honesty, that may seem a stretch for Kent given his history. It is also a risk on the Dodgers part since, even though he may accept that, he may blow up in the season.
Chariss — Looks like a deadly lineup and team. Can I be your assistant GM. I’m a statistician by training.
I have been very critical of Gonzo lately. I don’t dislike Gonzo as a ballplayer or as a person. I do dislike the fact that he in combination with Pierre were signed and blocked to some degree the development of Kemp. And I do believe he spent considerable time lobbying for playing time. And I also believe that although he had a decent season, we would be in the playoffs if Kemp and Ethier had started all year (except of course when he was injured). If Kemp and Loney had started all year we would definitely be in the playoffs.
I wish Gonzo the best of luck. Unless he signs with a team in the NL West. Then screw him.
Nightmare scenario. He goes back to Arizona having learned from this year. He accepts his role as an occasional starter/pinch hitter and becomes an important mentor for their kids. Then he gets a huge hit against us late in the 2008 season. Ahhh!!
chariss I dream like you man. Except in my dream ARod signed with us too.
There was a post here about reporters thinking Kemp is an a-hole.
I think people forget that TWICE he took a wall to the face and upper body going for fly balls.
i hope kent doesnt come back. i dont like him..ive never liked him. he is a jerk, plain and simple. but if he does come back i fear that DY will be traded. if kent comes back…DY and either abreu and laroche will be traded. and i really dont want that. i think DY shows great potential and i really think managment needs to give him a chance
We can only hope that something is done to improve us for next season and while it looks as if my proposed line-up is a pipe-dream, the Dodgers have the resources to pull it off. orth, you got the job my man let’s lead the Dodgers back to their glory days LOL.
Joey_rock — I get the sense that you think this ONE player will dictate the plans of the organization. First off, he doesn’t have to come back BUT the organization needs to communicate what they will do with him. If you remember, DePo didn’t have good communication with the players as to what was going on. Hopefully, they’ve learned to do that.
Even if he does come back, it will be for 1 year. If the Dodgers are truly going with the kids, that needs to be their underlying philosophy. Plain and simple. Of course, trades are possible and that will need to be determined by guys like Logan, etc. who needs to consult with Ned and Ng about who they feel CAN be tradded and replaced by even younger kids in the farm system.
Ideally, the Dodgers would trade Pierre, and then pull of the trade for Santana and reunite him with Tori Hunter. I would LOVE ARod, but I get the feeling that after he takes the Yankees deep this post season (WS) he’ll stay in NY. If the Dodgers trade Pierre and pay 1/2 or a little more of his salary, they will still be better off long term. Now, this being a perfect world, next season here is our line up: (assuming they trade Kemp to Minnesota)
Furcal SS
Martin C
Hunter CF
Loney 1B
Ethier RF
Young LF
LaRoche 3B
Hu/Abreu 2B
If Kent stays, put him in the 5 hole when he gets a start and move everybody down one, and our rotation:
Santana
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Loaiza/Schmidt…
I don’t think that even Grady Little can lose with this team.. well…
Chariss — Besides Santana (and our FA), do you have any idea who is in there last year before FA (i.e. who’s available at the trade dealine in 2008 and 2008 FA?)
Delwyn Young can definitely hit. Vin Scully said a couple of nights ago that he was yet to see a DY at bat in which the ball wasn’t hit very hard, and last night certainly didn’t change that.
The question is if he can field. I was sitting behind third base last night. In between innings while tossing the ball with the batboy, Delwyn on three occasions accidentally threw the ball into the stands.
I dunno. It may be that Delwyn is the reason the AL adopted the Designated Hitter. If DY can’t become at least a marginal fielder, it is imperative that we get value for him when we trade him to the AL. Oh, and not to the Angels; it would drive me crazy hearing Angels fans talk about him for the next five years.
Kiper — Like Chariss, a good lineup and team. It’s great that we have so much talent to use to either keep or trade. It’s the trades that scare me though.
orth, that sounds like a question for jungar. jungar, can you get a list of potential FA’s after 08?
These pitchers will be free agents after the ’08 season:
Ben Sheets, 31
Brad Penny, 31
C.C. Sabathia, who will be 29
Jake Peavy, who will be 28
Jeremy Bonderman, 26
Johan Santana, 30
Oliver Perez, 27
Santana will be of the list because he’ll get traded this off season and sign an extension…
You know what’s scary…the NL West could be good for years with the Rockies and D-backs being just as young as we are…the Padres pitching should keep them in it…and the Giants starting rotation is not too shabby either. We need to make a move somewhere.
kiper, thats a pretty good list to choose from.
you have 4 of the best pitchers in the game listd.
*listed
If Jeff Kent comes back there is little doubt that he will be the regular atarter at second base. And there is no question that he should be. Kent is no team leader, but he is a future Hall-of-Famer who is still very productive for a second baseman.
494 AB,.302 BA, 20 HR, 79 RBI
If Kent were holding back a Loney/Kemp type, things might be different. But right now he’s holding back Tony Abreu who has definitely not banged the door down, and Delwyn Young who — although off to a great start — is not a proven commodity and if reports are accurate may be a truly bad fielder.
I love the kids. But not everything has to happen at once.
Regarding the trade rumor of Kemp/Kershaw for Santana, Diamond Lueng gives us this:
Rumors about Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw going to the Twins for Johan Santana are untrue because well, there is no such deal on the table. Rumors about any such deal involving Kemp?
“Trade him? Where’d that come from? I’ve told you before don’t believe that (stuff) you read,” Manager Grady Little said, adding that Kemp has been the team’s most improved player over the past year. “He’s progressing and nowhere near the finished product. For every one of those (base running errors), I think he’s taken another base – an extra base or stolen a base.”
I agree martinloneykemp…not everything has to happen at once. I don’t think we can go into next year though with this year’s team and expect to win the division. Am I off-base here? We could compare the Dodgers to the Lakers’ plans about keeping the same team and finishing in the 8th spot in the West only to get bounced in the 1st round.
Gonzo may be a great guy, I don’t know. But his reason for signing with the Dodgers should have raised a red flag from the beginning. He said that he signed with LA because he could play more games against Arizona. He obviously wanted to show the Diamondbacks that they made a big mistake by not resigning him. It never really was about being a team player and helping the younger players. It was all about him getting revenge on Arizona. Then to have the Diamondbacks do so well without him was probably more that he could bear. Anyway, I hope Dodger management learns a lesson from this season. Stop signing other teams castoffs and use the wealth of home-grown talent. Guys who come up together play well together and have fun doing it. That’s the way baseball used to be. Now in the age of free agency all that many players think about is their own records and how it affects they salary potential. They don’t care about the team except for their personal goals. So please don’t trade Kemp or Young or Either. What a great outfield that would be for years to come! Or move Young to second base, where he would provide the Kent type of power at that position. Hu should be our shortstop of the future; don’t trade him! Another year a Las Vegas may help him, but he could probably be productive in LA next year, too. And please don’t sign any free agents who have Scott Boras as their agent! Boras is a cancer to the game, instilling greed and selfishness to those he represents. We don’t need those characteristics on the team regardless of their talent, which Boras inflates beyond reason.
Here we go…
http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency09.php
This one is a little clearer…
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html
Some interesting names….Cora, Izturis, Peavy, Santana (obviously),
I would love to pick up an Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter. But even the team we have right now is capable of a World Championship:
Furcal (Healthy)
Pierre
Kemp
Loney
Martin
Kent
Ethier
LaRoche
Billingsley
Penny
Lowe
Schmidt
Wolf/Loaiza/Kuo/etc.
Beimel
Proctor
Broxton
Saito
That team includes a very good shortstop, the NL steals leader (I’m being positive), three guys who could finsh in the top ten of NL MVP voting, a still-productive Future HOFer, a very strong #7 hitter, a potential ROY candidate, one of the best young pitchers in the game, two very solid veteran starters, two strong late-inning guys, a fantastic young set-up guy, and one of the best closers in the game.
DY’s glove is w/o a doubt made by US Steel. He is AWFUL at 2b…he is, well, not great in the OF either. But has really improved from the last time I saw him out there.
But pretty much anyone can be taught to play a serviceable LF if they already have MLB talent. Just a matter of seeing enough fly balls and remembering not to sit back watching the show when the ball is hit somewhere else.
I still like an OF of
DYoung — LF
Kemp — CF
ET — RF
That OF is good for 75-100+ hr/yr for a long time to come.
And if DY proves to not be able to field at all and really is a butcher…he will certainly have trade value as a DH once he shows he can hit consistently at the MLB level.
Biggest problem the Dodgers have is the same as last off season…the rotation blows. Once past a marginal Penny who may melt-down at any time, there is Billz and that is ALL. The rest are put together with bubblegum and bailing wire. Not one can be counted on for a full season. I my opinion they need at least 2-SP’s this off season. Or the will need a couple kids to step up in ST.
Like this season it all revolves around the starting pitching. And the team will only go as far as the SP’s take them.
Grumpy — Again, this past offseason, Zito and Schmidt were the top SP available and most critics think Schmidt was a bargain. Of course, hinsight is 20/20, but did Zito do any better. Zito was hyped just as much as Santana is being hyped.
We (the fans) need to try and put away as much emotion as possible. I know lots of people here were talking about Schimdt’s velocity tanking in the second half of last year before he signed with us, and that should have been more of an indication of something wrong than a clean MRI. That’s a decision the scouting teama and GMs need to make.
Penny and Chad should be 1-2 next year if Chad continues to improve. Lowe will probably be the best #3 in baseball. Not many teams can say they have a 1-2-3 combo like we have.
Anyone watching what SP Micah Owings is doing today? 4-4 with the bat, and 6 shut out innings.
He’s from GA also. I got to watch him play in high school and at Georgia Tech before we transfered to Tulane. He can really hit. I thought he should have been drafted as a player instead of a pitcher but I guess the scouts saw it different.
hey now… don’t compare Zito to Santana. Johan is by far superior in every way. Talent, performance, stuff, numbers, everything. Schmidt was a better signing that Zito at the time, and may possibly still end up being depending on if Schmidt gives us anything the next two year.
“I my opinion they need at least 2-SP’s this off season. Or the will need a couple kids to step up in ST.”
Fine, but keep in mind what you’re paying for it. For example, with all the talk about trading Kemp and Kershaw for Santana, which Colletti might be tempted to do, it’s important to keep in mind that Santana would be a one-year rental. Does it really make sense to let go of two potential franchise players that the Dodgers would control for years in exchange for just one year of (admittedly) a great pitcher?
Anyone who think Santana would give the Dodgers a discount after 2008, let me introduce you to my friends J.D. Drew and Eric Gagne. Santana is certain to test the FA market after 2008.
If Colletti is determined to trade a young player of that caliber, let’s at least make sure it’s for someone the Dodgers will control for two or more seasons, not for a one-year-rental.
I posted the Lowe quote last night, which I got from a written source that provided no other details. If the overall tone was, it doesn’t matter who’s on the field, I have to pitch to the hitters, then, fine, I apologize for interpreting it as throwing Hu under the bus and/or more locker room sniping.
But Lowe did publically complain that no big deadline trade was made and that was the kids are for. And the quotes of his in the recent Simers’ article can be interpreted as anti-young player, (the “they can’t walk around like they’re bulletproof” comments), although it can also be interpreted as a knock on management being too weak to lay down the policy and the law to the players.
(Lowe’s comments to Simers were a couple days after Kent’s controverial comments, well after someone should have gotten the clubhouse to shut up and keep things in-house. A leadership problem, one might guess.)
I think it’s time we let Martin take over the leadership role. He has to do all the hard work.
“I my opinion they need at least 2-SP’s this off season. Or the will need a couple kids to step up in ST.”
Fine, but keep in mind what you’re paying for it. For example, with all the talk about trading Kemp and Kershaw for Santana, which Colletti might be tempted to do, it’s important to keep in mind that Santana would be a one-year rental. Does it really make sense to let go of two potential franchise players that the Dodgers would control for years in exchange for just one year of (admittedly) a great pitcher?
Anyone who think Santana would give the Dodgers a discount after 2008, let me introduce you to my friends J.D. Drew and Eric Gagne. Santana is certain to test the FA market after 2008.
If Colletti is determined to trade a young player of that caliber, let’s at least make sure it’s for someone the Dodgers will control for two or more seasons, not for a one-year-rental.
Posted by: johnstodder@hotmail.com | September 27, 2007 12:08 PM
Firstly, you agree to an extension with Santana before you agree to any deal. Secondly, we’re the Los Angeles Dodgers, and we just set another attendance record, we don’t need a discount. Spend our money on superstars Ned.
I just made a comment on a Yankee blog, since you may hear about it, I congradulated them and told them if the Mets make it and there is a Subway Series this year that I, as an N.L. fan will be rooting for the Met’s as I did the last time. My daughter and I usually root for each other’s teams when our own team doesn’t make it.
Lowe’s quotes in both Tony Jackson’s Daily News and Ken Gurnicks’s mlb.com stories are much better.
“It’s up to us as players to figure that [how to play together and not be in dissension] out, and I know we will.”
“Everybody wants to win. There is too much talent here for us to be a .500 team over the course of six months.”
I “assume” we’ve all played on sports teams at some point in our lives. For me, the question about Luis Gonzalez is whether he wanted more playing time because a) he felt he could help the team win, or b) he was panicked to get hit #2500. In either case, his job was to march into Grady’s office, CLOSE THE DOOR, and air out his requests. Grumbling in the dugout or clubhouse for all to hear? Weak.
dodgerdude17: “Firstly, you agree to an extension with Santana before you agree to any deal”
No team can negotiate with Santana except the Twins. To do so is called “tampering” and is not permitted by MLB. If you trade for Santana, it’s for one year, after that “you paid yer money, you takes yer chances.”
I meant to say that after a trade is agreed on, you can negotiate an extension with him. Anyway, if we do trade for him, we have the money to keep him. With all that said, I want to keep Kemp and Kershaw, but Johan is great… so I’m torn. My main point though was that we can and should be able to afford to get whatever star we want.
Semi-true about Santana. If the Twins know they’re going to trade him, and Santana knows the team involved, etc., Twins and Johan can reach a contract extension before the deal is consummated. Of course Santana will demand a nice compensation for being a swell guy about it.
I just told a Met’s blog I’m rooting for them LET’S GO METS I’m a N.Y. N.L Fan Ain’t I?
But, of course if the Met’s BLOW IT, God forbid, I have no trouble switching to the Yankees, I grew up.
I don’t see how the Mets are going to be effective when they have both hands firmly grasped upon their own throats. 😉
True, there are some ways around the tampering rule, but what exactly would be Santana’s motivation to accept an extension? He’ll command a killer contract after 2008 as a FA on the open market – N.Y. Yankees anyone? – so the extension might have to be at exaggerated terms in order to be unquestionably better. (If he accepted an extension, conspiracy theorists will start to worry that he knows his elbow is about to blow.)
Well I’m a Dodger fan but when they’re not in contention I’m a baseball fan. I really like what Cleveland has done with their team and I like the young players they have so I’m pulling for the Indians this postseason.
I say go Los Angeles Jr! Give So Cal something to be happy about.
Anybody but the Yankees and Mets or a NL West team.
I want to see Yankees and Cubs in the W.S. That would be a great one for baseball.
I’d like to see Cubs and Indians.
Dodgerdude: As you know, the Cubs would be in there first World Series since 1945, if they made it. *******Chicago,Chicago,that wonderful town* bet your bottum dollar they’ll lose***the blues in Chicago.
No team can negotiate with Santana except the Twins.
—
Not always true. For example when we traded Green to Arizona, the Backs and Green were given a 72 hour window to work out an extension.
That said, I don’t see it happenning…because of what you said later on Fogey. Extension for Green when ending his productive portion of his career is one thing. Santana is another thing altogether.
Like I mentioned yesterday I wouldn’t make the trade. We were a top 7 era team in baseball this year without Schmidt or Santana and with stiffs like Tomko, Hendu, Loaiza, Hernandez and others with eras this year of over 5. We just have to trim the fat, and maybe add a few guys below the radar to mesh with the others. I see Meloan as Broxton jr next year already.
Consistent Offense in Dodger Stadium has ALWAYS been a problem. With what I see out of Kemp, Loney, Martin and others I think these guys can achieve that with a little help and that’s where I would place my effort.
No doubt Santana would be unbelivable for us though. I would just worry about the long term even if it was just a FA signing after 09, let alone while trading two of our most promising young players. Kershaw, while young is on the fast track and Kemp, well with an OPS+122 and a VORP rating that puts him at the top of NL RF’s in very limited ABs he is well on his way…And what else needs to be said about Loney and Martin. The one guy I am not as thrilled with is Ethier. I have no problem with him, but I think his ceiling is too low to concern ourselves with him. I don’t see him being anything more than a .290 20 85 guys and while good, that’s nothing THAT special from a corner OFer.
I really hope that we just let thes young guys play. Heck make it a marketing campaign. We have built in proof that it can work with Col and AZ so the general fan base should be an easy sell this time.
I would just put every ounce of effort into trading or FA signing for a superstar bat anywhere on the Diamond and then work backwords from there. I love Loney as much as anyone, or LaRoche but if you get Puljos and A-rod well then trade em. But Get A-rod first. (obviously I am just talking in a perfect world..don’t post hey jungar st louis would never trade puljos would they type thing..)
For all the Grady bashers, I don’t know if you saw him answer the question posed to him by Andy Garcia. The question was something like, “From here on out, they aren’t going to go down without a fight, right?”
Grady: “Well, they are going to go down, but we’re going to go out there……”
Now I don’t know if Grady mumbled “aren’t” in “aren’t going to go down” or used the word “are” there, but I don’t think a manager rephrases a question like that from a reporter. I would have turned to him and said something to the effect of “What do you mean “going down”? This team “doesn’t go down”. These guys are pros, etc.”
Very passive.
I think it would be “we are going to go down, but we are going to go out there and play our best”*****and that’s what they are doing. I just wish they can end up at .500 or better. that will make it, my first year on line, a winning season.
Well Loaiza’s pitching tonight so you can put another one in the Loss column…
pierreseast if they don’t finish with a winning record I will be thoroughly dissapointed. I didn’t realize how high Wilson “.194” Betemit’s OPS was with us. It was really good. Thanks Ned…
unbeliveavable.
3.12 1.20 .243 Pre All-star
5.23 1.38 .273 Post AS
Derek Lowe, quoted by Gurnick mlb.com:
Lowe said this fourth-place finish will be tougher than the last one, “Because of the transition [to youth] during a pennant race,” he said.
i wonder what Loiza can give the Dodgers tonight!
he pitches into contact! i can see alot of balls going out! LOL
Loaiza pitches good and Hernandez blows it. My gut feeling for tonight.
Abviously Lowe is saying Grady shouldn’t have been playing the kids, even though they were successful. Jan I will tell you what Loaiza can give us tonight… A BIG FAT BLEEPING LOSS!!!!!!
Yea cameron, Loazia will have to pitch well just to get his ERA with the Dodgers under 10. lol
Pierreseastmeetswest — My point of the quote is that the manager’s attitude should be to refute the defeatist attitude of the question. It assumes you ARE going down.
If you can’t refute it, you are basically accepting that defeat on yourself (which in his case, is probably true. Do you want that in a manager?)
Dodgers win tonight. Loaiza goes 5 then they bring Beimel, Proctor, Broxton and Saito in to close it down. 5-3 Dodgers.
Cameron – It would be a miracle for us to give up 3 runs in a game that Esteban Loaiza starts.
swood – what’s Loaiza’s career ERA?
Cameron its probably pretty good cuz he won 21 games with the white sox and won a cy young. That was before though he had numerous surgeries. You will never see that type of performance now with the Dodgers.He’s worth nothing at this point in his career, just ask Billy Beane.
If he gives up 3 runs tonight in 5 innings that gives him a 5.40 era for the game. He’ll come through tonight. You act like he’s the worst pitcher in the league. Granted he’s not a 1 or 2 anymore but he’s still a good 4 or 5 guy.
Is he better then Stults and Houlton though? Probably not, so why did we pick him up? Is this the way they are gonna treat Kershaw when he gets to the bigs? Are they gonna put him in the ‘pen(like they put Billz) also or make him stay in AAA even when hes ready for the bigs? Either Stults or Houlton would do a better job in the rotation then Loaiza is doing now, plus they’re young. Also remember this Loaiza is super fresh this is like April for him when everybody else has been getting beat up for 6 months. Loaiza’s no good. Stults and Houlton are better. Ned please DFA him before he becomes Tomko, or worse.
It’s just crazy to me that he (lowe) is the one that helped doom us with his post AS break performance and he talks and talks and talks…Fine, feel that way but now you just are trying to get traded and it’s embarrassing.
I agree that Houlton and Stults should be given a chance but if all else fails Loaiza isn’t a bad pick up.
They should have Stults in the rotation next year and Houlton in the pen. Schmidt isn’t going to be healthy so Loaiza is your #5. That’s the way I feel it should be but then again I’m not Grady.
Alright guys I’m out. Maybe I’ll get a chance to chat with you all over the weekend.
As much as I’d like to see my countryman Loaiza pitch well, I would rather see the Rox extend their winning streak and win the wild card. I would prefer the Rockies in the post season as opposed to the DBacks and/or Pads. I love the Dodgers, but just for tonite, Go Rockies!!!
jason
Lowe has an attitude worst than Penny!
Penny don’t talk alot! He shows emotion that’s all!
gonzo sat the last 3 games which means he and nomar will probably play tonight. i don’t know if i want to go anymore
Derek Lowe really doesn’t have any credibility whatsoever. This is coming from a guy who really stunk it up in the second half, granted he did pitch well last night, but still. Hey Derek, maybe you should concentrate on pitching better and not screwing up another relationship of yours then talking about the guys who were outperforming the veterans.
Kiper I can’t believe you. I think Loaiza was a stupid pickup but I still root for the name on the front of the shirt, no matter whos wearing it. I have never rooted against the Dodgers and I’m not about to start now. VAMOS DODGERS!!!!!
Oops…I meant to say lets go Dodgers.
Maybe we should have given Wilson “194” Betemit more of a chance. I mean Nomar isn’t the long term answer and LaRoche doesn’t look like it yet either so maybe we would have been better off. I mean even though his average was low, his OPS which is just as important if not more important, was GREAT as a dodger.
Wilson has always had great potential, he just needed work on his situational hitting. I wouldn’t really be surprised if he turned out to be a good one for the Yanks. He still can hit the long ball…
swood, that’s cool, I root for my countrymen and I root for the Dodgers and I have rooted for the Dodgers since before you were born.. The Dodgers had a chance to play spoiler, earlier in this series now they are just trying to avoid the sweep. What I am saying is that the Rockies are a team who has done it without much fan fare and I would prefer, as a die hard Dodger fan, that the Padres and DBacks stay home. I would rather the Rox get in because all you would hear throughout the post season is what a terrific story and underdog they are. If the Pads and or DBacks get in, they’ll focus on how poorly the Dodgers collapsed!!! Swood, I will always be a Dodger, and I will ALWAYS root for my fellow Mexicans, especially in Dodger blue. My pulling for the Rox for one game is well justified to myself.
Kiper, Let’s go Matt Holliday
Beyond that but can’t we control our players? I mean I am not one for censorship but sheesh it would be good for the dodgers and these players to shut up and not make further fools of themselves.
I want the Dodgers to win just as much as anyone, but I hate San Diego and Arizona much more than I do Colorado. I would like to see Colarado make the playoffs.
calauto, I’m with you!! Hahaha, arriba Loaiza!!
jkissen, you get it!! I don’t think any less of you as a Dodger fan, on the contrary, I like the San Diego and Az hating that you’re displaying.
What a waste Esteban Loaiza was! We were better off throwing Stultz, Houlton and Hull out there instead of that guy. Now we are stuck with him for next year also. Great move Ned!!!
I have a thought..lol…
I would never have gone for Pierre last offseason for many reasons, but I think Ned panicked…He shouldn’t have done that and gone with more kids…give them more playing time and they would be even better by now..Then he could have picked up Aaron Rowand this coming off season who is great offensively and defensively…Making decisions that aren’t to the benefit of the team, but just because there is no one else is not good…Love Rowand..a hard working player with power and great skills…
Don’t trade for Santana..We don’t need to give up what we would have to to get him…I’m
not sure about all the kids…Hu might be expendable..( why can’t we have a stud short stop like Tulowitzki instead of a cute little one..lol?)and if we could get someone for Hu and Ethier, then I might do it..
i wish i can speak spanish!
i can only speak Tagalog ofcourse im a Filipino and English as my 2nd Language!
im trying to learn spanish! lol
Thanks for the words of encouragement, kiper.
The main problem with Cabrera is that he is a great hitter, but not a good fielder….that might be a problem…I would love to see Delwyn get more playing time…be nice to have someone that can hit in our lineup besides Loney….Next year if Abreau can stay healthy, I like him and Young in the lineup…then find a power hitter somewhere..
Kiper, vives en Denver ahora? No necesitas encantar Loaiza solo porque es de Mexico. Hay muchos jugadores de Mexico. Kiper tienes que encantar los Dodgers, no personas de tu Pais…
did any of you guys watch the exact interview where the quotes from Derek Lowe are coming from? He gave a lengthy 10 minute interview post game to reporters, as he usually does after a game he starts, and if you actually listened and watched him talk, you would know he wasn’t bashing the kids or anyone at all.
Reading a selected and chopped up quote online or through an article doesn’t give the entire story. So before you start bashing Lowe like you’ve done to other players on our team, listen to what he says in the context in which it was said, instead of SPINNING his comments to serve your purpose of showing that ALL the VETS on our teams are devils and the kids are little angels.
jkissen Ned always makes **** *** moves that hurt the team. Did you really think Loaiza would be any different…?
Miguel Cabrera is going to eat himself out of the league. Remember Angel Pena, the fat catcher the Dodgers once had.
I posted this last night and I figured I would post it again in case anyone missed it and because it is relevent to the conversation that is going on now.
——————————-
Hey Everyone, I was just having a chat with my dad over the phone. He is a huge Dodger fan and has followed the team closely since the mid 60’s. We were talking about all the great young talent the Dodgers had and I mentioned to him the rumors about the Dodgers maybe trading some of the talent away for a proven veteran or a stud pitcher, etc. He reminded me that the Dodgers had all of this young talent in the early to mid 70’s with Garvey, Russell, Lopes, Cey, Baker, etc and the Dodgers were patient and let these guys develop and it turned out they had a solid group of guys for years to come. The fans had such an attachment to these guys because they were from the farm and with the team for such a long time. They really were the heart of the Dodgers and the city. I am really starting to feel the same attachment to these kids. I find myself rooting for the young guys harder then I do for those cry baby veterans.
I am of the opinion the Dodgers really need to go back to that. There is no reason to be frivilous with our money and spend on risks and older veterans, when we havec this much young great talent. Plus, with the exception of possibly A Rod, Lowell, Hunter and maybe Andruw Jones this years free agent class is pretty weak. I would really make a push for A Rod, but outside of A Rod I am not impressed at all.
I personally think it would be in the Dodgers best interest to let these kids play next year, let them develop and get experience and see what we really have on our hands. If we see there are some players aren’t cutting it and aren’t developing then we can make some moves. I would just hate for the Dodgers to get trigger happy and pull a Juan Pierre signing this year just because they got nervous the Giants were going to sign him.
I just hope Dodger management is smart and doesn’t jump the gun and panic and realize they have a special group of guys on their hands and it is in their best interest to keep them around and build a solid foundation for years to come. Any thoughts?
Posted by: jkissen@mac.com | September 26, 2007 08:51 PM
Swood, cayate nino mocoso.
Believe me Im not thrilled with Lowes comments, he just wants to be on a winner. We want a winner too. Winning would probably take care of all tihs infighting.
calauto, are you joking or being serioso, I can’t tell…
jkissen
I agree with you, but I think in Ned’s mind he has this “we have to win now too mentality”..the only problem is that his view of that is different than ours..He probably doesn’t think he can win with the kids…I hope that changes..the only thing we need is a power bat if we can find one and maybe a reliever…other than that keep them together..
casino
it’s not just about that interview!
sometimes he speaks like Chef Ramsay of ****’s Kitchen!
he has a filthy mouth!
He use some unappropriate words!
jkissen, that reminds me that I had a bet with my Dad, a 50 years + baseball fan. When Kemp/Loney first came up this year and were hitting out of their minds, I made a bet with him they would both finish hitting well over .300. He didn’t think so. Looks like I win.
good point drpdedblnd. His perspective of signings that will help the team is very different from ours.
Saw it to and he still thinks the reason we weren’t successful this year was because we went young.
And thats not correct.
oh is serious, serioso in spanish? in tagalog it’s Seryoso!
Kevin Kennedy, Steve Lyons praised Lowe’s comments last night on Dodgers Live right after they televised Lowe’s interviews. The context in which the comments were made were clealry shown in the interview, and by just reading them from an article, you’ll never get the entire story, and therefore, Lowe is now the flavor of the week/day to get the typical Dodger Hate.
One instance last night was when a reporter asked Lowe if it was difficult pitching tonight since there were a bunch of guy’s behind him who were getting a shot to play. Lowe responded that it didn’t matter who was behind him, he still has to go out and pitch his game without worrying about who’s playing behind him.
After the interview, the analysts on dodger live praised lowe and said that he was a good competitor and it was honest of him to say it didn’t matter if young guys were behind him playing. He had to make good pitches regardless and he did that.
Lowe also talked about his win-loss record and how his 14 losses weren’t great. A reporter then asked him how difficult was it that in those 14 losses the Dodgers only scored 30 runs. Lowe responded that it’s tough, but he can’t blame anyone. He still has to go out there and pitch his game. Lowe mentioned that for every loss that he had, there were times where he didn’t pitch well and won the game because the offense helped him do it. So in sum, he didn’t worry too much about the fact that his losses mounted up from a lack of offense.
So, if you want to hate on Derek Lowe because of his comments last night, feel free to do so. Just watch the entire interview and the words come from his mouth and make your own interpretation instead of relying on a reporter that’s cutting and pasting comments here and there to spin a perspective that he wants to portray.
serioso is serious in spanish jan.
drpdedbind, I agree that is what Ned’s thinking, but I am tired of the lets sell the farm and make stupid moves just so we can for a season. I am ok with not winning for a couple seasons if it will make us contend and win for the next 7-8. Lets see these kids play and grow together.
Congrats on winning the bet jspekl2! Its just amazing to me that the veterans are blaming the woes of the Dodgers on the kids especially a kid who was tearing the cover off the baseball.
serioso is serious in spanish jan.
Posted by: swood@rcn.com | September 27, 2007 02:58 PM
yeah it’s almost the same in tagalog just different in spelling!
okay, well i guess Derek Lowe is now the newest inductee to the 2007 Inside Dodgers Dodgers Hall of Hate.
i wonder who’s next..or should i say, who’s left?
I didn’t know they used English letters in fillipino…
jan, serio is serious, not serioso..
casinod lol. All the vets are already in that hall and all the kids are left.
Swood,nino menso. lol
calauto hasn’t responded yet… I think he was playing but I want to make sure.
Casino
“One instance last night was when a reporter asked Lowe if it was difficult pitching tonight since there were a bunch of guy’s behind him who were getting a shot to play. Lowe responded that it didn’t matter who was behind him, he still has to go out and pitch his game without worrying about who’s playing behind him.”
Do you think that’s true?
that’s a lie in my opinion! before, he said he doesn’t want a minor league team playing in the majors!
Last nights lineup were almost all september callups!
and if he does tell the truth that’s just becoz the game didn’t matter for the dodgers anymore!!!
swood..i know..
the only guy’s i’ve seen that haven’t been bashed and had their comments spun to portray a negative point of view are saito and joe beimel.
it is what it is. Even Laker fans don’t hate their own players as much as people here. Granted, some Laker fans hate certain players, better i’ve never seen them hate everyone on the team. And Baseball has a bigger roster too. Amazing.
What the heck calauto? Come on man. No need for talk like that here. There are more hispanics reading this blog then you or I may think.
So let me get this straight so that I can fit in.. Anyone who criticizes the young players automatically becomes the enemy? So right now I am to hate Kent, Gonzo, Plascke, Simers and now Lowe? Because they all said something about the kids? So by that logic if Grady says “these kids are the most talented group of players in the majors and I love them” then we all become Grady fans and supportive of his great managing skills? OK, I get it, go Grady, Boo Jeff, TJ, Bill and Derek. This is fun, I could get into this, I just hope Vin Scully doesn’t crticize the kids, I’d hate having to call out Vinnie’s inadequacies…. PLEASE!!!
jan/van, whatever you’re name is..
did you watch Dodgers Live last night? They played the interview live and those words (or close to it) came out of his mouth. The Analysts right after were talking about it and how it was good of Derek Lowe to man up and say that. So, if you think Derek Lowe lied to the national audience watching him, then so be it. I’m not a mind reader, so you should go join the cast of Heroes or something if you’re that talented.
casino
so ur trying to build a new HOH?
good for you!
casinod I haven’t heard Loney be bashed. Even when he was in that 1-21 slump. I have also never heard Martin be bashed(unless you consider asking for more rest bashing).
Swood I’m just playing, but then I could be serious too.!!!!
casino
i will… u’ll see me next tuesday only on NBC!
I know but still thats not right. If I didn’t know you I would be very offended. Does anybody know how close El Segundo is to Dodger Stadium?
Swood, I only called you a snot nose kid, but in spanish.
swood
that’s becoz ur not supposed to bash youngters!
u just want to analyze how they are doing in the majors and let them know what needs to have an improvement!
but this veterans doesn’t know how to teach them! they only know how to talk!!!
El Segundo to Dodger Stadium with traffic is about 25 min.
LOL
—
After James Loney and Matt Kemp defended themselves, TJ Simers goes on the attack of these rookies. All of the sudden the unproductive veterans get all the sympathy, and these young whippersnappers steal the veterans’ jobs and are so mean we have to start shipping them out to the Minnesota Twins.
What a load of ******* *********. Would a line up of Rafael Furcal, Juan Pierre, Kent, Luis Gonzalez, Nomar Garciaparra, Olmedo Saenz, Brady Clark and Mike Lieberthal inspire any fear in the hearts of opposing teams?
Let’s face it. The only reason the Dodgers didn’t start their collapse in May was because the kids started playing. In fact according to Baseball Prospectus, three of the kids (Russell Martin, James Loney and Matt Kemp) are the top 5 Dodgers in VORP (value over replacement player). I further believe that if Andre Ethier, Kemp and Loney had more at-bats, their VORP would be even higher.
Oh talking about VORPs is way to sabermetric, and that’s no good right? That’s why we got rid of Paul DiPodesta before he could get anything started here. But that’s a topic for another day.
Let’s get this straight right now. Getting rid of the youngsters and allowing the veterans to rule the roost will bring the Dodgers back to the glorious days of the FOX ownership. You remember those days when the Dodgers traded away Paul Konerko and gave huge contracts to Darren Dreifort and Kevin Brown?
By the way, Russell Martin won the Roy Campanella award given to the most inspirational Dodger as voted by his teammates. I wonder how many times Jeff Kent voted for himself.
O I thought you called me a stupid kid…
kiper, you’re not to hate anyone, and you can do whatever you want. But i have seen instances on this blog where comments have lead to people hating a certain player.
Example: Gonzo. Check back to games he plays and see how many times someone says “i hate gonzo”. Then look at times where he hits a home run and no one says anything about it. And instead, call it a lucky home run because the pitcher who gave it up wasn’t that good and had a high era. If you ask me, that would be something a giants fan would say if Gonzo hit a home run against them. Something i don’t expect from a fellow Dodger fan when Gonzo us playing for us.
If you want to hate Gonzo or anyone else, then do so. I don’t care. If you want to criticize them because they complain, talk out to the media, and bash players do so. I just hate it when people minimize their achievements on the field to support their “hate” of a certain player. A home run by Gonzo that gave us a lead, and ultimately enough runs for the win cannot be minimized. But people still find a way to do it.
Another example was someone saying that Kent’s 20 hr’s were meaningless and not adequate for us. Of course, this comment only came out after Kent made those comments about the kids. Thus, to support you’re disgust at Jeff Kent, you’ll minimize what he’s done this entire year, including batting almost .500 for an entire month. I guess Kent got “lucky” that month?
No come on Swood you and me are tight, now maybe diehard would have called you that.
is*
russell deserve to win the ROY!
but i think having alot of Youngsters in the club help!
Let’s Go Dogers!!!!!
Example: Gonzo. Check back to games he plays and see how many times someone says “i hate gonzo”. Then look at times where he hits a home run and no one says anything about it. And instead, call it a lucky home run because the pitcher who gave it up wasn’t that good and had a high era. If you ask me, that would be something a giants fan would say if Gonzo hit a home run against them. Something i don’t expect from a fellow Dodger fan when Gonzo us playing for us.
Posted by: casinod383@yahoo.com | September 27, 2007 03:14 PM
u just have to ignore those bloggers!
u don’t need to mention those things!
and one thing is for sure! gonzo s*cks! he didn’t help us in the 2nd half!
van,
i can mention whatever i want. Just like you can. So please, don’t tell me what i can and cannot do. You might as well tell me that i have to say “I love Matt Kemp” all day to fit in or something and don’t post anything else. I tell it like i see it. I’m not a Gonzo fan, Grady fan, Kent Fan, Nomar fan, Kemp Fan or Loney fan. I’m a Dodger fan, i try not to play favorites. I like certain players of course, but i don’t go out of my way to portray one as bad versus good.
Two thoughts on the future:
1.) Even though I’d have really mixed feelings, I think the Angels winning the WS would be THE BEST WAY to send a message to the Dodgers brass that if they want to remain the best ball club in town, they’d better stop approaching free agency like a used-car lot and approach it more like getting a lease on newer models that still have some oompfh. Little pricer, but we’re L.A., I think we could swing it.
2.) I’m really liking this experience of watching the youth movement growing into big league ballplayers. I only hope that we have the money to keep the club together once it matures, the Free Agent market is a little different now than it was in the 30-30 infield’s day.
does anyone think the Angels can win the world series?
I personally think that the 3 other teams in the AL have a better shot at the World Series
casino
u didn’t understand what i mean!
im trying to help u actually!
what i mean is u should not mention those things coz alot of people will just think ur trying to get their attention!
u know! coz that’s their comments and ur trying to make an argument out of it even though u already know that they will stand by their comments!
Once the dodgers are out, I can careless who wins. Is that how anyone else feels?
I guess I would like to see the Angels win as I live down here but can really careless. The only teams I don’t want to see win are NL West teams.
i agree jungar. to be honest, i’m kind of interested in seeing how the yankee’s do and watching them play. I want to see if Arod can break his typical postseason slump.
As for the angels, i only like watching Vlad bat, then i just flip the channel during the season.
I enjoyed your post drinkinmercury.
“remain” is a strong word since they are the last ones with a ring though
Oh yeah me too Casino I will watch most if not all of it, but it’s nice just rooting for good basbeball and the stories as they emerge.
I hardly watch any baseball besides the dodgers..until the playoffs start. I can’t watch Angel games either it’s just to painful to see who should be our manager and our hitter (Vlade) over there.
Once the dodgers are out, I can careless who wins. Is that how anyone else feels?
Posted by: jungar@wsgcorp.com | September 27, 2007 03:38 PM
same here! but im going to watch the yanks too like casino! their team is pretty exciting to watch!
the Free Agent market is a little different now than it was in the 30-30 infield’s day.
Posted by: drinkinmercury79@aol.com | September 27, 2007 03:24 PM
I get what you’re trying to say but this year we had 3 30-30 infielders: Wright, Rollins, Phillips.
Drinkinmercury — I can excuse the kids-learning-on-the-job plays they make (i.e. striking out, baserunning gaffes, etc.) since it’s a learning for the kids and knowing that those kinks will be worked out and added to the already great talent they have.