Today's lineup
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that there will be a lot of ground balls tonight. The top two groundball pitchers of the last five years are facing off, so it should be a good one.
Also, Derek Lowe and the Dodgers Dream Foundation have their bowling event coming up in just over a month (July 30) and lanes are still available, as are individual spots. This is one of the best attended events of the year when it comes to players, so come on out and hang with the Dodgers, celebs and patients from Mattel Children’s Hospital. To purchase a spot or for more info, call 323.224.1413.
Also, the feature on Russell Martin in Sports Illustrated hits newsstands today, so grab a copy. The writer, Michael Farber, did a nice job on it and since he lives in Montreal, he has a unique perspective. And you can still vote for him and the rest of the Dodgers until tomorrow night at 8:59 p.m. PT.
Meanwhile, I wish we could wage a campaign for Takashi Saito because if he doesn’t make the All-Star team, it would be a travesty. He’s been nearly unhittable all year and has struck out 41 guys and walked three. That’s Eckersley-eque. And last night, he did something no closer in the history of the game has done – he saved his 45th game in his 48th attempt. That’s seriously impressive.
Here’s tonight’s lineup:
Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Loney, 1B
Nomar, 3B
Ethier, RF
Lowe, P
Inside the Dodgers 
Looooooooooookiiin tough!!
Saito does deserve to go to the all star game! He is the best closer around in the National league! And i just want to add that I hate Franky Rodriguez from the Angels! I hate the way carries himself, he is a big show off!
Hope we can pull another victory tonight!
Let’s go Dodgers!
ethier could flourish in the #2 spot…..
We might aswell bump him down one more notch to 8th.
Nomar to 8th.
Very true David!
If i remember correctly Eithiers numbers last year he batted over .300 in 5th and 6th spot!
I feel bad for Nomar. He’s such a great guy but he’s just not getting it done. Id be sad to see him gone but It would help the team. So would getting Kent out of the 4 spot. And well you know my stance on JP.
Why is it SO HARD to find Loney and Kemp in the same lineup???
Furcal
Eithier
Martin
Kent
Gonzo
Looney
Nomar
Pierre
Kemp DH
O that’s right no DH in the National Leauge. No wonder they say that the American Leauge is Stronger than the National League!
man the JP signing blocked Kemp so much.
Oh NO!!! Martin on the cover of Sports Illustrated!!! What fate does “The Jinx” have in store for Russell?
All right, team. Time to get it done for Lowe. Don’t be like the Giants, who “helped” Matt Cain to an 2-8 record despite a 3.5 ERA.
Well he’s featured in SI, and hopefully NOT on the cover.
NO KEMP LOVE!!!
I’m amazed no chances for Nomar at 3rd last night!!
but seriously, he should be in there tomorrow right?
With the lefty Johnson going tomorrow Kemp should be in there somewhere
**** Giants! They let the Padres beat them again.
GO DODGERS!
Nomar should be BUMPED to the bench – especially this game with a ground ball pitcher on the mound for Arizona…
Kemp should be playing for the very same reason that Loney in now playing…. HE IS HITTING THE BALL !!!!
I wonder how many managers would let a .400+ hitter rot on the bench…
Almonst everyday Grady continues to remind people why they didn’t want him in Boston…
when Pierre has a helmet on he looks like a bat boy
that has nothing to do with the reason why boston fired grady
I guess Nomar was nice enough in Little’s mind to quickly make the switch to 3B and he does not want to give another day off, even with the groundball pitcher in Lowe.
When Pierre has a helmet on he looks like *&*(&&&*((*&*&&^^&**(())))__
Im waiting for kent to heat up…because when I go to the im going to buy a special K box of cereal and glue kent’s face on it..lol
Well aside from the defense I have ten other reasons Nomar should not be playing tonight:
Nomar vs. Brandon Webb:
0 for 10 (.000)
I’m hoping that Nomar can turn up the heat soon, I like seeing him in Dodger Blue, and like Max I would really hate to see him go. I’m happy that he’ll do whatever’s best for the team, that shows the class we all know he has.
From everything I’ve read, JP is a better second half guy. For this reason, I think his true value to the team will show itself come October. Sure, he signed a huge contract, but I don’t think anyone expected Duke Snider or Willie Mays, and those few days when Furcal and Pierre were both getting on base, we saw some real fire on the basepaths. That’s why Colletti pulled the trigger on the deal, and the 1-2 punch at the top of the lineup will come around soon with those two. I’m not ready to close the book on JP yet.
And I’m sure the AL is stronger than the NL when it comes to sheer bat power, but I would like to never see a DH in the NL. What’s next, Aluminum bats? T-ball? Maybe that game in Futurama when they have the ball tied to a bungie cord? I’m proud of being a fan of the league where every player hits. More strategy, and holds pitchers accountable for their actions on the mound should they get too close on their brush-backs.
Oh, and I’m sure some of us could use new legit e-mail addresses over the next few days to get Russell Martin starting in the All Star game (and bench NY’s Lo Duca campaign). never can have too many legit e-mail addy’s come June.
looks like we’re gonna have to take things into our own hands and hand the Pods a whoopin this weekend. No use in depending upon the gnats. We’ll handle them later on this year.
I wish little Juan were the bat boy, then Kemp would play and we’d have a better team.
he looks like the bat boy, fliegel.
well this is a good test for nomar. either he can hack it at 3b or he can’t better to find out now. as for his offense…
When you guys watch Loney do you think he is better, more ready than Kemp?
About my Dunn for Loney trade talk last night… it’s very frustrating to argue anything controversial on this blog because all the evidence and stats in the world won’t convince most of you. Then most of you come back with mostly opinions and stereotypes, and expect me to change my mind? So what if Dunn has around a .250 career BA? His OBP is still better than both Pierre and Furcal for their careers. Someone said that he won’t hit as many homers in LA than he does in Cincy… did u forget that ball he hit off Jose Lima a few years back? He hits balls that will leave any ball park by 100+ feet on a regular basis. Dunn 21 homers this year, Loney 4 counting MLB and AAA. Dunn would play 1B if we traded for him… With that said, and please make sure you read this, I LIKE LONEY! I want him playing everyday! HE IS GOOD. My point was that I would perfer Dunn over Loney. Thats all.
well i do, loney looks like a much more polished hitter to me. i thought he looked polished when he was up last april! kemp has less experience in baseball, it makes sense he’s a little more raw. not to say i wouldn’t love to see in the lineup everyday.
well, thats your preference DD. i would rather have someone with a better approach at the plate than dunn has…. oh yeah, and someone that young and under our control for years and years.
besides the fact that the reds already have their own stud 1b prospect, they don’t need ours.
I think Loney is ahead of Kemp right now because he plays more. Kemp needs to play everyday so we can find out where he’s at in his development. Right now Adam Dunn is the more proven player, that said ,I wouldn’t trade Loney until we see what he’s really capable of, or we might regret it later.
At THIS moment in time Loney looks far and away ready and better than Kemp. Kemp’s ceiling is unlimited but he still has issues at the plate. Once Kemp adjusts he’s capable of doing everything, but he’s not there yet. But, you know he’ll get there. Loney has been ready since July of last season and is a very special player. Loney has always shown off his hitting but if his power is there like it’s been so far the ceiling is unlimited for him as well. Also, we know how blessed he is with the glove. One thing is for sure they’re both very special players that will be here for a very long time.
Gound Hog Day
oops – Ground Hog Day
let’s hope they are here for a long time, Dodgers got a major break after trading Lo Duca to have Martin come up the way he did. While Martin is still my favortie catcher in the majors at this point, Lo Duca will always be a favorite of mine. Im still a bit bitter about the fact that he was traded.
I love Martin as our catcher , he does a great job, but what about trying to sign someone like Lo Duca or Posada and move Martin to third in the off season. This way he could play everyday and not wear down and still catch on occasion.
oh come on thats ridiculous, they’ll never do that.
Just a thought, you know Martin was a third baseman up until recently , and it would solve their problem a third.
Great lineup. Time for 3 in a row at bank one!
Geez SF ***!
This is the lineup I’d prefer seeing…..
1) Milton Bradley – cf
2) Hee Seop Choi – 1b (This kids a stud)
3) JD Drew – rf
4) Brian Giles – lf
5) Willy Aybar – 3b
6) Antonio Perez – 2b
7) Joel Guzman – ss
8) Dionner Navarro – c
dodgerdude,
You call me calling out Dunn’s .247 average an opinion? And sure he hits mammoth HRs but some of those 40 from last year or the year before were cheapos that squeaked out of a joke of a stadium. He doesn’t hit 475 foot HRs every time he parks one. Instesad of looking at the 40 HRs he hits, how much more often does he K? How many times would he punch-out in crucial situations? How many boots would he have in key situations? Don’t fall in love with HRs and OBA, he brings more negative to a team than Pierre. You’re using career #s when comparing Dunn and Loney, those are bogus because Loney hasn’t fully developed yet.
hahahah nice lineup I would add Billy Ashley in there.
Right now. Dodgers baseball for me…….meh.
Remember Todd Ziele started out as a catcher and then was moved to third. They probably wouldn’t do it but it’s no more ridiculous then the Dodgers thinking about using Lieberthal at third a little while back.
DePodesta would have landed Giles and never traded away Bradley or APerez…..or OPerez for that matter. DePodesta is a genius.
jspek… finally some counterpoints that make sense… loney under control for a while and the reds already have joey votto for 1B… thats all i wanted, a reasonable response…
you’re correct, he didnt play catcher until he hit the minors. But this does give him a slight advantage over other catchers in the league. Most catchers play the position for years on end to get to the skill that Martin has after only a few years. I doubt his knees are feeling the normal pains of a catcher who has played every year of his life. I played for about 10 years and had no knee strength until I hit the wieghts in high school. The usual wear and tear wont be visible in martin for a while Im sure.
though dunn’s approach at the plate is pretty good OBP and SLG prove that
I usually don’t push individual players but I think we have a whole bunch here that need a shove. LET’S GO FURCAL____SUPERKENT_____NOMAR
The youngsters are showing they belong. NO HELP FROM GNAT’S TODAY…COM’ON LET’S GET SOME MORE RUNS FOR DEREK & GET RID OF WEBB EARLY>>>> LET’S GO BLUE CREW……. Oh I like to add that S__A__I__T__O Belongs among the All-STARS in fact he towers over all of them.
thank god they will never do that. ugh and its not a major break regarding Martin.
—
Soon, Martin’s tangible skills were catching up to the intangibles.
Next it was off to Vero Beach, where he led the club to a second-half championship and made the All-Star game. Ng was at the game and never will forget something she saw: Martin springing from a crouch, firing the ball to second base and easily throwing out the runner.
All around Ng, scouts were looking at their stopwatches in disbelief. “What do you got? What do you got?”
Someone clocked the throw from home to second in 1.88 seconds – much better than the two-second average for a major league catcher.
Ng called then Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta and suddenly Martin was on the “no-trade” list.
That July, the Dodgers sent Lo Duca to the Florida Marlins as part of a six-player trade that brought starting pitcher Brad Penny to Los Angeles. Soon after, the Dodgers traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks Koyie Hill, widely considered the club’s top catching prospect – at least to those still unfamiliar with Martin.
The Dodgers later traded for Dioner Navarro, then the New York Yankees’ top catching prospect, and he finished the 2005 season as Los Angeles’ starter. But Ng and Depodesta said the Dodgers viewed Martin as their future catcher and Navarro was the place holder. The trick was convincing the new regime.
They knew what they had in Martin and traded for a 26 year old potential ACE who had just beaten the Yankess 2 times in the world series. Without him this year the dodgers would have a loosing record.
Well that su cks! I was thinking about getting a 2007 National League All Star Game jersey, but they are orange and black. Ain’t no way I’ll EVER wear the Giants colors!
GO DODGERS!
While Im sure there was good scouting and planning ahead with Martin, there was still luck involved in that Martin was not injured to some extent or another. I realize the trades had to be made at that time, but they still got a break in that he has responded this well. Look at how hot of a prospect Konerko was coming out of triple A and he didnt respond at all for the Dodgers in his first couple seasons. That was a major disappointment. But now he’s fairing pretty decently and even has a Ring if my memory serves me correctly.
In conclusion, a player who responds well in the minors is not a guarantee to respond the same way in the Majors. That’s whewre the luck laid.
better lucky than good
The one thing that I’m observing about Loney is that he seems to be selective at the plate. I’m only able to follow the games on Gameday, and I don’t know how accurate the pitch placement is compared to real life, but I notice that he will take borderline pitches most of the time and will often swing and get his hits on that one pitch that comes closest to the middle of the plate in that particular AB. It seems like a very patient and mature approach and the one thing that separates him from Kemp at this stage. I wish that many of our other hitters had that patience and waited for the pitcher to come to them. Then again, some of those in a slump, like Nomar in particular, the best they seem to be able to do with a pitch right down the middle is to foul it off.
Depo is a Dbag
Dead on analysis Messagebear
true fez, I guess what I mean to say is that alot of stuff is well planned out. Your right though weather the results match the plan are different stories altogether.
53!! LOL!!
http://new.wavlist.com/movies/012/ghd-tomorrow.wav
agree with message bear I do. And thats from seeing TV…Not gameday.
I agree message…. I seriously wish our guys would make the **** pitchers work… go deep in the count. Makes for much quicker exits for the starter. Hopefully Mueller will be able to get this across to them.
you can’t tell the vets to change their approach this late in their career. im mean kent and nomar are the guys always swinging at the first pitch and they’ve made careers out of it. The problem is they’re older now and don’t have as much pop or ability to catch up with a fastball, yet they have the same approach.
final words of every organization… We’ve always done it that way!
Max–so nice to hear you with nice comments about Nomar. I agree–Nomar is a great guy, and hopefully he can turn it around. I’m surprised to see him batting behind Loney, but it’s justified.
As for Kemp–Loney is clearly more ready. Loney’s been ready for prime time since July. Kemp probably has more raw talent, and has all five-tools, and there is a good chance that he’ll prove to be the best player of the bunch. But he’s still learning. Watching Loney work the count you can tell he already knows what he’s doing. And, at this point, accepting JP in center (and Gonzo in left, who really has been doing great), Kemp out of the line-up gives chances to Ethier, who deserves it too.
As for the Grady-haters, we may all think he came to the conclusion about Nomar and Loney later than we did, but you have to give credit to the management. How many times have you seen a manager take an established star (last-year’s All-Star team, remember), a high-priced free agent, and one of the most popular players on the team, and have him move positions to let a guy take over who is still eligible as a rookie? This almost never happens, unless the player is Wally Pipp. And unlike the Yankees of that season (when Ruth was out and the Yankees fell to a rare second-division finish), the Dodgers are in the middle of a pennant race. Grady announced the move while the Dodgers were 1.5 games back and about to start a 4-game set with the then-first place team, to be followed by 3 with the then-second place team. This is an impressive risk for established baseball people to make. If it does not work out, Ned and Colletti may be run out of the game. I think it’s the right move, but the worst that happens is my fantasy team loses. These guys are in it for real.
(Actually, you could count letting Steve Garvey become a Free Agent after 1982 and letting Greg Brock take over [a huge mistake] or letting Scioscia leave in favor of Piazza for the 1993 season [a great move, and Scioscia was soon back as a coach in the organization], but those are just letting free agents get away at the end of a year–a different scenario).
McCourt should really give Colletti the pink slip at the end of the year.
Pierre *****. 45 mils.
Nomar *****. 20 mils
Schmidt *****. 47 mils.
If a CEO at any other company had mismanaged that amount of funds—they’d be canned. You cant get away with that stuff at GM, microsoft, etc.
Thank goodness for Lowe, Penny, Martin, Kent, and the kids.
LeeFink—if you had Nomar at 1st base on your fantasy team, you’ve already lost brother.
Some of you are saying ” Loney is clearly more ready”
If this is true, then please tell me why Kemp was on the Major League Roster to start the season & Loney was sent to Triple AAA…
Is it just another blunder by managment Or did Loney magically become so much better in 3 months ???
Also, to all you Grady Lovers— Do you really think it was Grady’s idea to move Nomar to 3rd… I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH …. More likely, Nomar went to Grady and said he would play that position… Nomar could see the writing on the wall…. He knew that if things continued with Loney’s improvement he would end up watching from the bench more often than not…
Need to give credit where credit is due…
Yankees are killing my parlay.
We got to get to BWebb early tonight. I look for a nice long top of the first inning with Raffy and JP starting it off strong.
That’s easy we had 3 left handed outfielders starting and needed 2 righties off the bench which is why Kemp got the job over Bigbie. Loney was the 26th man and most deserved a spot but because they weren’t ready to move Nomar over the 3rd and not wanting Loney to sit on the bench Loney was out of luck. AND it’s been well documented it was Grady and Ned’s idea to move Nomar. Which Nomar went along with because everybody saw what Loney has become and what he can be. Nomar also is a great guy and will do whatever the team wants as long as we win. I’m actually a little afraid of the dreaded comebacker tonight, so hopefully Lowe and Webb can watch out, cause nobody wants that.
Go Dodgers!
Vote for Martin!
1) Josh, if Arizona’s bench coach comes in and hits a home run off of Saito, I will hold you personally responsible.
2) Nomar has been demoted to 7th in the lineup. He’s not hitting well this year, but this month he’s been especially off at the plate, so maybe he picks things up in July. Or admits that he’s playing with some nagging injury that’s robbed him of his power.
3) One thing I can say for Nomar is that at least he’s not trying to bunt. I was watching the Nats-Braves game, and Andruw Jones just popped out on a bunt. I don’t know what’s wrong with Jones this year either, as he’s looked pretty bad at the plate.
4) Dodgerdude, I have to say that I am going to go against you on Dunn for the Dodgers. First of all, GABP is a bigger launching pad than Coors now; look at Adam Dunn’s home/away splits, and for his career he has a .100 lower OPS on the road. Second, hitting a long homer off Lima means NOTHING; Jose Lima gave JUAN PIERRE his first major league home run. I have nothing wrong with his sub-.250 career batting average since his career EqA (equivalent average, from baseballprospectus.com) is .299, just as I think Betemit should get the bulk of the starts at third, with Loney at first (although that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms, largely related to Betemit’s low BABIP). But with Dunn’s vastly inferior defense, I could think of a better way to spend that kind of money.
5) We’re about to find out tonight how well Nomar will work out at third base. I personally would have gone with Abreu and Betemit over Nomar and Kent tonight, but hey. Things happen. That’s why you play the game.
ok…you can’t really blame ned for the nomar contract. he was lights out last year. remember that crazy game against sd where he hit the walk off homerun in september?…he’ll turn it around. i’m sure of it.
you can’t blame him for the schmidt signing either. who knew he’d need surgery? he passed all the medical exams.
good post alex. its way way off base to say loney wasn’t ready b/c he wasn’t on the roster to begin the year. everyone knows he should have been there.
Timy, Nomar was lights out during the 1st half of last year. Pre-All Star break he was great no doubt.
But the year before he was crappy with the Cubs, and had been declining with the Red Sox. Considering how bad he was last 2nd half, and this 1st half—I think he might be done. Last years 1st half was an aberration. He might end up being the most expensive utility player in the history of the game next season.
i can blame him for the schmidt signing because the warning signs were there: a lackluster second half with decreased strikeouts, less velo, an aging pitcher with injury history who’s logged alot of innings. Sure, I can blame him if i choose to.
Alex —
I follow your reasoning concerning Kemp — So why was he sent down after his injury????
Also I would like to see/read some of this so called documentation concerning Nomar’s move… Some of the things I read indicated it was Nomar’s idea to move….
Same thing that he did when he offered to play 3rd for the Cubs…
Because Coletti couldn’t find a way to trade Brady Clark, he tried for weeks to find a trade with no success until he finally gave up and DFA’d him to get Kemp back up, also he wanted to see how Kemp would respond after his injury in AAA. Also, there are plenty of articles and Tony Jackson’s blog stating it was Grady’s idea and nothing is done if it’s not signed off by both Ned and Grady.
Wasn’t B. Clark on the Roster with Kemp in the 1st place????
I know Ned & Grady signed off on the idea… Doesn’t necessarily mean it was their idea… I read Tony Jackson’s blog everyday, & I am fairly certain he said it was a MUTUAL IDEA by the two of them… Which makes me think that Nomar probably approched Grady with the idea…
“Josh, if Arizona’s bench coach comes in and hits a home run off of Saito, I will hold you personally responsible.”
Absolutely hilarious Pats! Be very concerned if the guy is limping badly on his way towards the batters box…
From Tony Jackson’s blog: This is just one source, there are plenty…
Grady approached Nomar about the switch yesterday, and, according to both Grady and Nomar, Nomar immediately agreed.
And what aren’t you understanding
Kemp and Clark together to start season
Kemp goes boom into Death Wall DL’d
Kemp ready to come off DL, optioned to AAA to see how he responds after the injury
Colletti wanted Kemp back but couldn’t find a way unless he DFA’d Clark, later it was found out Colletti had been trying to trade Clark for weeks before DFAing him.
What I don’t understand is — if Kemp & Clark were on the Roster at the start of the season….. Then why is it a problem to have both of them on the roster after Kemp recovers from the injury & finishes rehab in Vegas ???
So, how long till they start walking martin to get to Kent?
I think Nomar and Kent should continue together in the batting order, except they should bat 7 and 8. Then we would at least see less of them.
msn reports saito is dead
see link below http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6968444
NOT FUNNY !!!
All right, time to pick up Lowe here, team. Give him some run support, maybe make it a little easier for him to settle down.
Kent & Nomar are just KILLING US….
Lowe looked better in the 2nd.
Alright J.P now lets work that walk into something else!
A walk turned into a TRIPLE! That’s the J.P we need
That’s what we like from JP — Hope we don’t strand him —
We get an ASSIST from the camera man and we still don’t score….
Typical game when D Lowe pitches.. We never seem to give him any help….
Bad we did not score Pierre, but Webb is over 60 pitchers through 3, so he’s not long for this game.
Maybe they should ‘ve tried the squeeze with MARTIN
pitches*, that pitch from Webb that got Martin should be illegal for too much movement, Webb has some seriously sick stuff
D. Lowe is getting better as the game progresses… Very typical of him…
We just need to get a couple of runs to win this game… Easier said than done however…
charris… I used Loney’s career Minor League numbers and Dunn’s career MLB numbers. Loney has had nearly 2000 minor league at bats and i think it’s a fair sample size… i’ll repost my comment from last night so that you can see. Sure, Loney is younger and still developing, but he still has a lot of developing to do and no one can be sure exactly what he will develop in to. Dunn is a known commodity, and I’d say he’s undervalued because of the K’s and bad defense. That is one undeniably big bat. How can you look at those SLG and OBP numbers and say he’s a negative to a team? Or even worse, a bigger negative than Pierre?
im just asking for some perspective… Dunn is 27 years old and has 219 career HRs. Few players that young have that many HRs. .248 BA, .363 OBP, and .517 SLG. (all career numbers).
Loney career minor league numbers: .298 BA, .366 OBP, and .436 SLG. 35 HRs in 1970 ABs.
Loney just turned 23 so the power may still come… but it’s no guarantee. Dunn has always showed the power, and at the MLB level for several years now. Dunn has bad defense and K’s a lot, but that power is undeniable as is his ability to get on base (which for their careers is better than Pierre and Furcal fyi)
Loney
http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/425/425766.html
Dunn
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763
Posted by: dodgerdude17@yahoo.com | June 26, 2007 08:24 PM
I think we must have the two least productive leadoff and #2 batters in the league. It is difficult to mount any offense when that is the case.
By the way… Las Vegas is known as a big time hitter’s park too, even more so that Cincy. Loney had the best season of his career in Las Vegas last year.
Also, all the numbers I used are Averages and not whole numbers… so I’d say my comparison is very fair. And last note, I did not call you using the career BA an opinion, please read and interpret things more carefully.
Another frustrating nite for Kent … Even when he hits the ball hard it always seems to be right at somebody…..
Ah, the “first pitch” Kent – what an aggressive hitter; just counting his way to 550 at bats, so he can be locked in for next year’s contract.
Martin walks on 5 pitches, SO
Kent ( Naturally ), swings @ the 1st pitch. That has to be managements fault, at least it
better be ???Gosh DARN IT…
I just can’t even imagine having Kent, Nomar, & Pierre on this team next year….
It makes me SICK to think about it…
Best throw by Pierre all year …. Great play !!!
Some of you are looking for reasons, Kent killed that ball, and took a gem to rob him so no complaints and Pierre has his first outfield assist of the season with some assistance from Furcal (cannon arm)
As we all know – Kent & Nomar are never going to change their approach to hitting… You just can’t teach OLD DOGS new tricks..
They don’t even know that the Dodgers have a hitting coach much less seek advice from one…
Loney having another great nite…. To bad Gonzo was out at 2nd … Typical of our Luck ….
C’mon Dodgers! Let’s turn some of those H’s into R’s!
Pierre really need to get that ball down closer to the line but whatever. Lowe probably would have been out anyways. The only reason Grady put the bunt on was the rule out the enviable double play.
Martin needs to take a sinker to right field.
Nomar has hit rock bottom. He’s either going to turn it around soon or he will have to be benched. I just hope Nedorino doesn’t panic and trade for Glaus.
He can trade for Glaus. Just don’t give away any of our prime kids.
We just can’t seem to do anything right…..
Bad bunt by Pierre…
Martin strikes out…
Kent dribbles to second…
Another one of those nites — UNluckey UNproductive — Many wasted opportunities…
If I were D Lowe I would be pulling out my hair…
What good would it do to trade for a big bat unless someone takes either Nomar or Kent in the trade. While those two keep playing, they’ll kill every scoring chance even if we have another big bat in the lineup.
PIERRE should bat in front of FURCAL
paul we don’t need another injury prone overpaid veteran.
FURCAL is too stationery. He’s not using his legs.
of course he could always do worse and sign Shea Hillenbrand who just got DFA by the anGLES!
That was first ball hit that came close to NOMAR.
Nothing wrong with Shea. He’s probably a possibility.
Rather try him at 3rd then trade Kemp or LaRoche.
For the love of ALL that is HOLY…why is Pierre hitting 2nd?
Move Pierre to the 8hole for crying out loud!
We need to pinch hit for Nomar this inning if someone gets on….
LONEY!!!
With our luck Nomar hits into a triple play.
Go Nomar, break the curse!!!
Loney is the Man….
He is just unconscious right now… Please don’t wake him up….
I repeat — WE NEED TO PINCH HIT FOR NOMAR…
Nomar has left 16 batters on during this series ….
Wake up Grady … At least make an effort to win the dammmmmm game….
Ouch!!! At least it was only one out and not a DP.
Actually I disagree with batting Saenz here, should be Betemit or Anderson (lefty), but we’ll see
I hate that Andre is hitting 8th and doesn’t get anything to hit. We havn’t been too successful with the bases loaded, let’s change that trend.
GO BLUE!!!
I strongly agree Alex,,,
Hope he proves us wrong,,,
FURCAL is DUE.
Come on Raffy, let’s bring some guys home.
I could list 4 names on who are due
Nomar, Kent, Furcal, Pierre
I’m just not betting the farm on a clutch hit here…
I would like to have seen more of a contact hitter up then the “all or nothing” tomato.
Stunned…am…I…not
sigh……
Saenz is just another washed up veteran this season, and Grady still insists on relying on him in the critical situation. Typical.
The Giants don’t deserve Cain pitching for them, and we don’t deserve Lowe.
Le sigh.
ok, i REALLY have to question the using of seanz in this situation. He has been horrid against RHP this year and not good in general. Where was betemit? why wasn’t he used? I really think Grady made a huge mistake there.
Is anybody really surprised how this game is turning out…
Some really questionable decisions by Grady…
Some really horrible unproductive hitting by the ususal suspects..
We have all seen this way too many times… Especially when D Lowe is pitching..
What bothers me most – we have better hitters sitting on the bench… Just drives me crazy…
DD are you seriously STILL talking about Dunn when Loney (and gonzo) has been our entire offense lately?
Maybe Olmedo gets DFA’d when Tsao comes off of the DL.
One can only hope for what one wants.
Furcal, Pierre, Kent, Nomar go O for 14 & 2walks —- They leave 16 on base…..
ENOUGH SAID
Rudy started out rough but got us out of it. I don’t have stats in front of me but hasn’t he been pretty solid the last few times he has pitched?
Losses are always frustrating, but the WAY this team loses drives me INSANE.
rwbjr, you are absolutely correct!
Grady’s makes his usual bone-headed moves and our “proven” vets continue to prove that they simply can’t play the game at the level they used to.
When players are hurting the team like Nomar, Kent, and Peirre are CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE. Thats management’s job. Fix things when they aren’t workin, and leave them alone when they are working fine.
Instead, players that make it work (Kemp) ride the pine, while players that are killing us continue to stink it up.
I realize i’m very impatient when it comes to these things but COME ON!!!
Just one of those games. Another one of those games. Can’t see the forrest when the bases are crouded. Too many men on base.
In a game where Russell Martin strikes out 3 times you kind of get the feeling it was not our night…
regulardude–What I was trying to say is that I would have made the switch and put Nomar at 3rd much earlier in the year. But I have a fantasy team–Colletti and Ned are running a real team. If I make bad decisions with my fantasy team, no big deal. If Colletti takes a risk that does not work, the whole city hates him.
That being said, I actually did draft Nomar and have him playing 1st base, and I am in last place. I had also drafted Loney, and had him sitting on my bench until I finally released him in like the second week of June, because I needed space for Connor Jackson to play first base. Then Loney finally got recalled, and I had to pick him up before anyone else, and thankfully I did. Unfortunately, it was not until yesterday that I put him in my line-up, because I did not know if he would be playing (I tried to check this blog before the roster changes, but don’t always make it).
But that’s all beside the point–the point is Colletti and Grady are taking some big risks with some real major leaguers, and should be commended for it.
This may sound really weird but I think the only team that can beat us…..is us, we’re the only thing standing in front of ourselves. Interesting huh…
For everyone out there who continues to rip on Nomar and Pierre maybe it’s time to back off and realize that Furcal is really the one player that continues to hurt the team by trying to play hurt with that bad ankle. Nomar is a pro and will rebound and finish the season strong and come September you’ll all be glad he’s on this team.
Something to think about……………. This team will probably lose 70 to 75 games this season, right now they have 33 loses so do the math. They’re going to have many more games this season like this one.
Make that 0 for 16 for Furcal, Pierre, Kent, Nomar with 16 left on….
Seems really bad…But it is business as usual for these guys…. Hitting Coach ? What hitting Coach ???
30 LOB, That fans, is INSANE.
A Power Bat is NOT going to help us. NO WAY…..Keep hoping. We are TOAST……
“Colletti and Grady should be commended” – thanks for the only laugh of the night, leekfink. Now I can go to bed smiling.
There has to be some explanation for why this team leaves so many men stranded on base. Here’s my take.
First. There has to be a reason we get so many men on base in the first place. I thinks thats because our guys, in general, see more hittable pitches than most other teams. The reason: NO ONE in our line-up is a legitimate power threat. Thus, seeing more hittable pitches translates into more men on base.
Second. I think that once we have men on base, pitches change their approach, our hitters start to press, and men are left stranded.
The way I see, teams aren’t afraid of giving up hits against us because the chance that those hits will be converted into runs are minimal due to our lack of a substantial power threat.
I don’t know, I’m just trying to make some sense of this unbearably frustrating situation.
For those Dreamers who think Nomar is going to get better in the 2nd half of the season evidently didn’t watch him play the 2nd half of last year ….
He was HORRIBLE, just as he is now…
Alex —-
What you say is absolutely correct….
WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMYS…
It wasn’t the 13 men left on it was the 8 men left in scoring position. Webb didn’t fool anybody. We just couldn’t hit at the right time. Like Scully says hitting out of synck. This club has been bothered by this for the pass 2 decades. We’ll get them tomorrow. I believe the Wolfpack will be around and we might even go right back into first place. Let’s face it we’re doin’ alright the last few years. Right now we’re 9 games over .500 a 1/2 game out. anybody whose crying now is silly.
well hey guys, look on the bright side, at least they didn’t leave anybody on base in the 9th inning… but then again how could they when Juan Pierre led off the inning?
wow..tought loss……russ with 3k’s is unlike him….we’ll get em tommorow…..hopefully we can knock the big unit around and send him back on the DL 🙂
and as usual, another loss, and more whining about grady, nomar, kent, etc etc…..it’s a team game, finger pointing does no good…people here act like KEMP is our savior or something..geez
No wonder poor Lowe has mentioned to his friends ( according to the press, that is ) that he will be trying free agency, thankyouverymuch. Poor guy gets the stick from the lineup much more than he deserves.
Webb did pitch well, but he didn’t have his stuff – just as Lowe didn’t quite have his stuff, but he still pulled it through for the team, which sadly couldn’t deliver a lick.
It is a pity Loney couldn’t quite make that throw to Furcal after his great effort in stopping the ball …
Well, tomorrow is another day, and my expectation for this series was a 2-2 anyway, so I don’t have anything to complain about.
pierreastmeetswest wrote…”Like Scully says hitting out of synck. This club has been bothered by this for the pass 2 decades.”
We also haven’t the World Series for about the past 2 decades.
The most amazing thing is NOMAR went through 2 games without a chance. Am I wrong but not one ball was hit to him. Correct me if I’m wrong. I know there was a hit between him and FURCAL that he dove for. Furcal should try sliding on his hands. I really think PIERRE should lead off while this is going on. FURCAL doesn’t seem to be a threat to steal. We had a chance to score with some baserunning. With Pierre on 3rd and one out they should have tried to pull a squeeze play.
Who remembers Mike Marshall(not the pitcher) & Greg Brock It was very rare for the 2 of them to get a hit in the same game. They both had better power numbers in Albuquerque. Every time they were sent down they hit like Ruth but when they were sent back up the home runs dropped dramatically.
Furcal – Inconsistent
Pierre – Inconsistent
Martin – consistent
Kent – Inconsistent
Gonzo – Consistent
Loney – Consistent
Nomar – horribly inconsistent
Ethier – at times consistent
thats how our lineup sets up right now. With this teams lack of pop the offense needs to string hits together. Its rather hard to do that with this lineup.
This should be our lineup until some guys get it going.
Pierre – mostly just to get him out of the way
Furcal – he’s more patient then Pierre and if Pierre every got on base at a recent clip this could be a great 1-2 but thats a big IF.
Martin – obvious
Gonzo – consistent with some pop
Loney – he’s hot right now and i doubt he’ll cool off alot.
Ethier – he should really be high he can get hot with some protection
Kent – Ive given up on Kent
Nomar – I think he can turn it around its just gonna be hard. I wouldn’t be suprised if he’s dealt.
Ok, big picture would a sweep have been great? Obviously, but taking 3 of 4 is what most of us want anyway. So, shake off this frustrating loss, come out and try to steal one against Johnson. Winning series is essential in a division race and a win puts us back in first and sets us up for a showdown with San Diego. Kemp should be in there tomorrow, Loney will be as well, it doesn’t really qualify as a real ‘day’ game so I don’t see a reason to rest anybody, you can’t take Gonzo out he’s too important right now. Nomar in principle should be benched after these past three games. There are no excuses for the way he’s been swinging the bat. Abreu at third tomorrow Period.
GO DODGERS!
LAST 24 HOURS! VOTE FOR MARTIN!
its hard to shake off a lose like this when they happen once maybe twice a week.
What a waste posted a_madjd@. He should be batting #1 not 8. I think Furcal need to be dropped to #8 now.
Max, there’s a reason for that…I’m just not sure what it is.
But the question then becomes: can we realistically envision a team that consistently has games like this as a team that will go far into the postseason, let alone make it there?
Yes, because this team can play as good as they did Monday. Can be as clutch as they were yesterday, but at the same time can be as frustrating as they were tonight. Placing Martin, Gonzo, Loney, Ethier/Kemp back to back to back to back could be a start like Max suggested. And if the others turn it around then it’s a huge bonus. I’m fully confident in the face of these brutal offensive games that they can win the division and with our pitching can win in October. We’re not even half way done yet, so we’ll just see what lies ahead. My guess is a lot of what we’ve seen the past three nights. The Good, the Bad and the unexplainable…
griffon64@webmail.co.za | June 27, 2007 10:08 PM wrote, “No wonder poor Lowe has mentioned to his friends ( according to the press, that is ) that he will be trying free agency….”
I haven’t read that anywhere and it’s not likely he said that (in a serious manner) because Lowe’s contract runs through the end of next season. Unless there is an opt-out at the end of this year that no one has written about, he’s going nowhere.
Besides, Carolyn Hughes wants to stay here too.
old_fogey… he did mention that he’d look to leave after the 08 season… tried to find where i read it put i could not
Abreu in Nomar out for tomorrow according to the Times. Night…
Dodgerdude I read that too. It was in a Boston Herald article. It was about his divorce and then at the very end they threw in that he was telling his friends he would rather test the market then resign. Which would be a huge mistake on his part since he is a perfect pitcher for Dodger Stadium. If all goes to plan we’ll be a much better team when his contract is up and we might resign him…this is assuming that Nedorino doesn’t get rid of the future for a fix now that won’t work.
So Derek Lowe is just like Roger Clemens, except he struck people out last night.
A trade will not fix this problem. I’m sure that Colletti will make an effort and bring in someone, probably for third base, before the July deadline, but I don’t think that it will be a high impact player. And that is not the real problem anymore anyway.
The real problem is that he has accumulated a number of veterans that are rapidly declining before our eyes, and it is a situation that is more than a slump. It is a case where the players he thought he was signing never showed up for this season – namely Nomar, Kent, Lieberthal, Saenz, Martinez, and certainly Schmidt, although that’s a separate category. Gonzo is the exception, but he and Wolf are the only bright spots. The others are simply declining with age – this goes well beyond being any kind of a slump – it is a judgment call that went wrong, and you have to place that blame directly on Colletti. Add the contract for Pierre for good measure, and, of course, we have the carryover of Tomko and Hendrickson on the pitching staff. I don’t know how he will correct these “mistakes”, but THESE UNPRODUCTIVE VETERANS ARE KILLING THIS TEAM.
This is compounded by Grady’s management of the situation. Grady has insisted on playing less than his best people in too many games waiting for that magic resurgance from Pierre, Kent, and Nomar. Add to those Furcal, who probably needs a 15 day DL stint for his ankle, but management is too timid to require that. It’s quite possible that the same situation exists for Nomar in the way of some physical impairment, but nobody can “require” Nomar to do what would seem the really sensible thing.
We have a nice nucleus of young players, and, first of all, I want to make sure that none of them are traded to just get a rent-a-player, or a Dunn or Glaus just as an excuse of a trade. I would like them to be playing together at the expense of playing time by Kent and Nomar, who should be sitting on the bench. If that doesn’t carry us to and through the playoffs, then at least we’ll be watching some exciting games and contemplate the prospect of next year and a genuine building program. Believe me, those old horses are not going to bring us to the finish line this year, and I’m sorry to see that several of them are bound to be with us again next year.
What I wish for Colletti and Grady is that they be held accountable for the results they’ve created. If we manage to make the playoffs and present at least a decent showing, then they should have the chance to continue again next season. If they don’t, they should both be GONE the day after World Series is over. In that case, LOGAN WHITE ’08, and maybe Girardi as a suggestion for the field manager.
nice points messagebear, I really hope Ned DOESN’T TRADE OUR GREAT YOUNG TALENT for a rental-a-player.
Right on the money messagebear!
Well they really stunk it up last night didnt they? With the exception of Loney and Gonzo that was pretty horrible to watch, even our boy Martin couldn’t get it together, i dont know if i should tip my hat to Webb or worry about our boys that producing enough!…… Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek! Man you deserve so much better this year. Lowe should be the NL All-Star starter this year with his 4CG’s (too bad 3 went for losses) and his 4th best in the majors 115.2 IP, the guy is our most consistent pitcher and i would say Penny is a very close 2nd! The rumor everyone has been talking about was published by Yahoo! sports:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Lowe-to-test-market-in-08?urn=mlb,36215 ,
I don’t see any truth to it but if this season continues the way it has been for Lowe i could see in argument in his favor, especially if this team decides to fall apart. (i dont see that happening just giving different scenarios) …… A BIG SWITCH!!! I don’t know about you guys but i think Martin needs to bat in the 6 spot exclusively or even in the 7 spot occasionally. With the exception of last night, the guy rakes in the runners, i mean you don’t lead your team in RBI’s for no reason ya know, but seriously everytime we see him higher in the order he comes up with no runners (with Pierre and Furcal no hitting the best in front of him) on and no use for his golden bat, when he was hitting in the 6 spot he was protected at both sides of him in the order and was knocking the **** out of the ball, besides all that i thnk he really prefers to be there. Also with Loney tearing it up lately i think he either needs to be batting 4th or 3rd in our line-up that way if the top 2 can’t get on he can start a rally with his hotter than hot bat, or if the top 2 do get in then he can score them or move them around with that bat, which will help Gonzo and Martin continue the rally. A line-up like this would see some major production:
Pierre CF – When the guy can get on base he tears up the base paths!
Furcal SS – I am certainly worried about his production and think he needs to be put on DL but if he insist on playing still put in this spot to free up Pierre when he gets on base.
Loney 1B – He is key in this line-up!
Gonzo LF – He has been producing a lot and getting on base “I NOW LOVE THIS SIGNING!”
Kent 2B – I like Kent here because obviously he is not the Kent he once was.
Martin C – Once Kent starts getting it going, Martin could see some serious production! Even more than we see now.
Ethier/Kemp RF – Now this is an interesting situation, as much as i like Ethier i think its only fair that Kemp get a crack at it every once in a while. Maybe a rotation or a match-up based format would work, plus im sure Kemp could use some time to help Pierre and Gonzo rest a couple games so i dont worry that Kemp is not in the line-up everyday because i know he will get his swings in.
Nomar/Abreu/Betemit/etc…. 3B – I dont quite know what to do with this situation i guess put someone there and hope for the best! lol it seems thats how we are taking it now anyways!
PITCHER SPOT – Some of our pitchers are stroking the ball so i like our chances here! ……. Other than our obvious offensive shortage problems, we have a good ball club and with the break coming this next week i am hoping nothing serious changes because i feel we can win games without that Slugger. On the other hand i think if we can get a decent slugger without unloading our talent that would solve a couple problems to but the catch is to find the decent slugger as a 3B or a player who is able to be converted to one because i feel there is no other spot for a slugger besides there soooooo it will be interesting to see how things work out during the break …… We are only in 2nd and only a 1/2 game back so i have no time to worry about our position. We are good, we have been in worse places the past couple years *cough! cough! LAST PLACE last year! cough! cough!* …… I can’t wait to see Martin in the All-Star game and i hope he does well and represents the team well! GO MARTIN!!!!!!!!
I agree with a lot of your points, bear, but I still don’t think that a single “bad” (let’s call it underachieving, maybe) season should result in the firing of any GM. Especially considering the turnaround season of ’06, and the fact that there’s almost no way the Dodgers will play even this poorly (10 games over .500 is poor?) in ’08 with what they have to build on. Even if you’re disappointed in the veterans, this pitching staff is one of the better staffs the Ds have had in a long time, and a lot of that is due to Ned (Saito, Beimel, Wolf, Schmidt in ’08…I hope…not trading Bills, Kuo, Broxton, Penny). I think that Grady is starting to turn the team around by emphasizing the youth more…and I don’t blame him for waiting, you don’t just bench solid veteran players who are below their career averages based on the first month, or the second…but it’s too late in the season now and he knows it.
The fact is, you fire Ned after the WS, and he will not have a chance to redeem himself from last offseason. His first offseason was a great one, and it turned the team around completely. His second one, well, left a lot to be desired, but he will obviously learn from the mistakes he made. Mistakes are to be expected from rookies at any level, even GMs, and he followed a great rookie season with a (potentially) mediocre sophomore season. That doesn’t mean you fire him. Turning over GMs so quickly is not the way to build a successful franchise, and I believe Ned should have through ’08 to show what he can do with continuing youth development and have a real chance to sign an impact bat (the odds have been very long for him to do so since he became GM).
Nice way to out it Puppyhead, my thoughts exactly! I think Grady and Ned have an exempt pass seeing as how they turned this club into a winning contender after the horrible ’05 season. I think some of Ned’s signings were head scratching but if the vets were playing like last year then we would not be wanting to get rid of him and or Grady, the management and coaching staffs always get the blame when players are playing bad, which i dont seem to understand, but its baseball and as long as we have something to blame it will used!
*put it
Bet update!!!!!! July 26 is end date..
On Base Percentage.
Pierre .304
Lowe .306
and for the **** of it:
Nomar .306
This lineup would be nice!
Pierre
Furcal
Martin
Gonzales
Looney
Kent
Kemp
Abreu
Pitcher spot!
Depo got fired for one bad year. Of course this was after the season when we actually DID SOMETHING in the playoffs. I don’t think we are underachieving at all. Did we really expect this team to run away with the league or even the division? Ned has dug us in a big hole with his contracts to Nomar, Schmidt and Pierre. Especially with Pierre. No Pierre would mean more Kemp and more Kemp is both good for the team and for Kemp’s progress. Kemp is at a point where he should be playing everyday.
This was posted on dodger thoughts a couple days ago its interesting.
Below is a chart of who brought in the players on the 2007 Dodger roster and how much those players have contributed to this year’s success as hitters and pitchers, according to Baseball Prospectus and its Value Over Replacement Player statistic.
There are some major caveats that come with this chart:
# This is not an effort to determine who the best or most important front-office executive is. It couldn’t be. For example, if Ned Colletti chose the right players from his predecessors to keep, that reflects well on him. And we don’t know what Paul DePodesta or Dan Evans would have done had they stayed in the organization longer.
# The statistics do not factor in defense.
# Playing time granted by manager Grady Little have an obvious effect on each player’s numbers.
And so on.
I did feel it was interesting to see how some of this broke down, forever, even if the presentation is unscientific. At a minimum, credit for the Dodgers’ current first-place standing in the National League West should be shared.
Paul DePodesta (84.1)
Name Bat Pitch Total
Penny 3.5 41.4 44.9
Lowe 2.2 25.1 27.3
Kent 11.9 — 11.9
Logan White (60.3)
Name Bat Pitch Total
Martin 23.0 — 23.0
Loney 11.0 — 11.0
Broxton — 8.5 8.5
Kemp 7.7 — 7.7
Billingsley 0.9 6.4 7.3
Abreu 2.1 — 2.1
LaRoche 0.7 — 0.7
Ned Colletti (50.9)
Name Bat Pitch Total
Gonzalez 21.1 — 21.1
Saito — 14.8 14.8
Wolf 1.0 12.5 13.5
Seanez -0.1 7.0 6.9
Ethier 5.5 — 5.5
Furcal 5.2 — 5.2
Tsao — 5.1 5.1
Hendrickson -1.8 5.5 3.7
Beimel — 2.9 2.9
Betemit 2.7 — 2.7
Pierre -0.3 — -0.3
Anderson -0.9 — -0.9
Valdez -1.8 — -1.8
Clark -3.1 — -3.1
Lieberthal -3.1 — -3.1
Schmidt 0.9 -4.2 -3.3
Garciaparra -5.7 — -5.7
Tomko -1.7 -4.2 -5.9
Martinez -6.4 — -6.4
Dan Evans (-0.2)
Name Bat Pitch Total
Saenz 2.9 — 2.9
Brazoban — -3.1 -3.1
Ed Creech (-0.9)
Name Bat Pitch Total
Kuo 1.5 -2.4 -0.9
* * *
so basically Depo and Logan White are the main reasons we are doing well this year. ha
http://tinyurl.com/3b7c8y
we agree on alot of things max, but ned did have a hand in getting us better last year. at the same time, it looks as if we have regressed from last years squad that scored the second most runs in the league. and that can be attributed to only one man, ned colletti. he pulled the trigger on nomar with loney hitting like he was in the playoffs. thinking offensively in search of a power bat, he pulls the trigger on another mediocre leadoff hitter that only blocked the powerful and speedy matt kemp. i will say nothing about schmidt as well because it looked like a good signing. he was old, but they were supoosed to have been familiar with him. i find it hard to believe ned and conte didnt know his labrum was thrashed….overall its looking like ned hurt us more than he helped us.
Very interesting analysis provided by Max and jungar in their submissions. I don’t have those type of details available, but I have felt all along that Colletti’s actions and benefits for our team have been highly over-rated. Hence, I don’t think it would be an over-reaction to hold him strictly accountable for the team’s performance at the end of the season. If it’s not there, he does not deserve another year of chances. Then LOGAN ’08.
Hey ungar-
That author sure is a reputable baseball source:
“Jacob Jackson is a high school English teacher and basketball coach in Santa Clara, California. He regularly bores the fine readers of AthleticsNation.com with 40-man roster analysis and service-time seminars, and nothing short of an unexpected phone call from David Forst or Billy Beane will put them out of their misery. He welcomes comments at jacob.louis.jackson@gmail.com.”
The jury is still out on this one.
I’m not sure why everyone feels compelled to pile on Nomar right now. There’s plenty of blame to go around for the lack of offense. Yes, Nomar is in a slump, but so are several other players, and every player goes through slumps. That’s baseball.
1) At the end of the season, players usually tend to end up at around their career averages. Nomar is a career .316 hitter. He may not get there this season, but his average WILL increase to close to .300.
2) Share the blame and back off Nomar. In the last 28 days, Nomar is hitting .213, Kent is hitting .213, Furcal is hitting .205, Betemit is hitting .229 and Pierre is hitting .250 (with an OBP of .286). So this is not ALL Nomar’s fault. And how many runners has Kent left stranded the last couple of weeks. Yet I don’t hear nearly as many fans complaining about Kent.
I just want to get this straight, correct me if I’m wrong, Colletti is on the hook because we should be 50-28 (give or take), the best team in baseball, because we’ve lacked to come up in certain clutch situations. In Depo’s 2nd and final season we were depleted by injuries and lost in a terrible division where San Diego barely cleared .500 to take the division. To win the division this season may take 94-95 wins and if we win 93 and miss the playoffs does that make it a failure because two other teams in our division had 94? That’s a season most teams would dream to have and the only reason some of you are bringing this topic up is because of how in two years the N.L West has become the most best division in the N.L. it’s comparing apples to oranges, if the division were in such turmoil like it was in 05 we’d easily be up 5-6 games. Obviously not making the playoffs would be a major disappointment but if we improve our record on last season (which we are on pace to do) and not make the playoffs it’s more a sign of other teams than it is of ours. My point is if we win 90+ games and still miss the playoffs there is no reason to fire anybody.
It is very interesting how much of Depo’s moves have panned out after two years of burying the guy. But, some of you can’t wait for results of Coletti’s signings, the legacy of the man will not be dictated by what happens in June, but what happens in October. We won’t know the results of these signings until they are complete. A lot of people to this day still hate the Lo Duca trade, but look what it brought us (Penny) and cleared a way for Martin. Except for that Choi, can’t forgive Choi. Long-term great trade, short term (yes we made the playoffs, but we collapsed and it took a Finley walk-off grand slam to get there) and if the trade was never made who knows what we would have done that October.
GM’s make good moves and bad moves, but what seem like good moves now may turn out to be horrible ones later and what seems like a horrible move now may end up winning us a championship. You just won’t know till it’s all said and done.
Oh yeah Kirby, not saying I agree with all of it. Also in Jon’s (max post) dodger though breakdown doesnt account for some of the players ON Depo’s rosters which makes it look better now. In other words no Jeff roublets in Neds world. The Jury is still out for sure but this offesean was a bust in terms of bringing in players that will really help, other than Gonzo.
I am not really down on the team as I seem to be at times..I am just not a Coletti fan. I have said this many times, i dont mind Juan Pierre the individual, but when u have what we have and then decide to start the year with three OFers who may hit 35 homeruns total, that’s when I have a problem with a particular signing. I don’t mind Jeff Kent or Nomar or Gonzo, but when you sign the three guys to be your 3-4-5 hitters at avg age 36, then i have an issue. So its the sum of the parts issue for me. Like did we really need another leadoff hitter, we already had one.
pcj505-
The difference is that Kent, Pierre, heck even Betemit have had hot streaks this year as well. Nomar has flat out stunk it up from April-today. He had some RBI’s to start the season, but most of those came on little duck fart hits that barely cleared the infield. He has as many HRs this year as Schmidt (who got 7 ABs this year) and Kuo (who has 5 ABs this year). The guy was supposed to be the meat in the middle of our line-up and yet I can’t even remember his last extra base hit. Nomar is getting hammered on because he has flat out stunk this entire season.
I think the author to that jungar link is joeyp AKA the troll.
What bugs me is I know we would be better with Kemp in there over Pierre(move Ethier to CF). I just know it. Just like I knew we would be better with Loney in over Nomar. So payroll shouldnt matter to me cause its not my money, but deep down I know our GM wasted 70 million on contracts over the next 5 years for two guys that we could pay 330k each over those next 5 years.
I typically only post my bad thoughts and thats wrong of me. If we can take 3 out of 4 today from a first place team, in their yard, we should be really happy.
Ned has done some really good things too. I think he has kept the overall vibe very positive, he is flexible in his thinking and he is aggressive and wants to win. So I apologize to you all if you think I am negative.
pcj505: “I’m not sure why everyone feels compelled to pile on Nomar right now.”
Here here! In a flash, nearly everybody on this blog seems to have forgotten what Nomar did for the team last season (and what he is more than capable of doing this season).
Would you guys be pounding on Russell Martin if he were in a slump? Keep in mind that Nomar is still hitting .266 and is third on the team in RBIs and fifth in Hits.
He will be fine.
GO DODGERS!
charris1010321: “The difference is that Kent, Pierre, heck even Betemit have had hot streaks this year as well. Nomar has flat out stunk it up from April-today.”
Not exactly. Nomar hit .307 in April before his slump, which is exactly what it is – a slump. The same type of slump that Kent, Furcal, Betemit, Pierre, and others are in now. The same kind of slump that affects everyone including some of the leagues best like Pujols and Howard earlier in the season.
I’m frustrated with the slumps, too, but I think people also have to realize that you have to work through these slumps. Nomar is not all of the sudden going to turn into a .200 hitter for the rest of his career. He will turn it around. I would think fans would give Nomar a little more credit considering he’s a career .300+ hitter.
Maybe I’m a little more patient than everyone else, but baseball is a long season, so you have to be patient through the struggle periods.
charris you are so lost with your joeyp fantasy. get a clue, the guy that says he is joeyp here is impersonating the sabr fan joeyp from dodgerthoughts. once and for all just give it a rest…stop fueling it.!!!!
April .292 .400 .625 1.025
May .375 .426 .625 1.051
June .371 .431 .557 .988
July .215 .319 .354 .673
Augus .261 .329 .362 .691
Sept .250 .283 .511 .794
April .307 .351 .416 .767
May .268 .317 .289 .606
June .211 .228 .237 .465
I can’t speak for anyone else, but this is the facts. So it’s not like were talking about a few months, for the last calander year
Nomar has hit .240 with a .320 OBP and maybe a .700 OPS
Slumps don’t last for 2 plus months (by the way even in April he didn’t look like himself, no power at all) and there have been plenty of great hitters that have fallen from grace at a dramatically steep pace (Don Mattingly, Albert Belle, Darryl Strawberry, Bobby Bonilla, Frank Thomas…the list goes on and on). The difference between Nomar and Pujols/Howard is that they have hit their stride and are now playing in midseason form. With his miserable perfomance for about a full season worth of games now (remember his second half last year was horrendous) how long are you willing to give it a pass as just a slump? I hope I’m wrong but the evidence in front of us seem to support my concern.
grafitti,
It was a joke, I know joeyp isn’t his “real” name, but the troll does actually exist and I don’t think I’ve ever seen as much love for DePo as I have from both the troll and the link above.
2 plus months? You have some very high standards if you consider .268, .307, or even .250 or .261 as slump months. Some of those aren’t great months, but hardly what I would call a slump. There are many players that don’t ever hit that well, period. Yes, June is a slump. But I would be willing to bet that Nomar’s final average this season is closer to .300 than .250. His power numbers will be down, but since when is Nomar a power hitter. He’s always been a very good hitter for average with decent power. He’s had many seasons that he has hit under 10 HR’s, but still been a valuable player. He averages about 18 HR’s a season.
“how long are you willing to give it a pass as just a slump?”
I’m willing to give it more than just one month, especially for a hitter like Nomar. June is the only month this season I would really consider a slump. And of the last 9 months listed above, I would only consider July of last season and June of this season as slump months. Imo, a .250 month is not a slump – that happens all the time to even the best hitters.
You are definitely looking at Nomar with rose-colored glasses. When do I consider a .268, .250 and a .261 month a slump? Well to use your argument, I call it a BIG TIME slump if you are a career .316 hitter. By the way those seasons that Nomar hit less than 10 HRs, he was riddled with injury. Leading up to this season, every year that Nomar has played with 400+ ABs, he has hit at least 20 HRs. So his lack of power has really only begun this year. In his career going into ’07 he averaged a HR every 22.9 ABs, this year he’s averaged a HR every 274.
“You are definitely looking at Nomar with rose-colored glasses. When do I consider a .268, .250 and a .261 month a slump? Well to use your argument, I call it a BIG TIME slump if you are a career .316 hitter.”
I guess I have more faith than you do. But my point all along has been – if you want to bash then spread it around. It’s not all Nomar. In fact, I have more faith that Nomar will bounce back than some of the others who are struggling, because he is a .316 career hitter. Over the course of this season and last:
Furcal has had months of .214, .203, .198, .257 Kent has had months of .224, .225 (a true 2 month slump by the way), .240, .183
So why aren’t they getting the brunt of everyone’s anger as well. Personally, I would rather see anyone but Kent up to bat with men on base right now.